Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Maidstone Borough Council Labour group leader Maureen Cleator and Medway Pride Radio founder Shea Coffey.
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00:30Welcome to the Kent Politics Show live here on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians
00:38talking.
00:39I'm Oliver, leader of the Saks, and while the Rochester Christmas market may have been
00:43rained off, the rest of Kent's politicians were still going as the festive season gets
00:48into gear.
00:49But for some, it's set to be a bleak midwinter.
00:53Charities are struggling with national insurance rises, puberty blockers for under 18s face
00:58an indefinite ban, and councils are coming to grips with potential housing havoc.
01:03To make matters even worse, you can't even trust that your pigs in blankets are safe
01:08to eat, with fake hygiene ratings all the range in Maidstone.
01:11Well, to make sense of it all, I'm joined by Maureen Cleeter, the leader of the Labour
01:15group at Maidstone Borough Council, and Shea Coffey, co-founder of Medway Pride Radio.
01:22But first, this evening, it feels like every week we're discussing the Labour government's
01:27new budget, divisive for employees and farmers, welcomed by apprentices and those benefiting
01:33from minimum wage increases.
01:35We haven't stopped talking about it since it was announced, but it's one group impacted
01:40that may have slipped off our radars.
01:42While public sector organisations are exempt from national insurance rises, charities have
01:48to face the full brunt of contribution increases.
01:52And despite providing vital social care, groups like the Kent Autistic Trust and those
01:57who rely on their services are worried about coping with the costs.
02:03We need urgent action to ensure social care can survive these rising costs.
02:11One example is carers don't have enough money.
02:16Staff here have to pay for their own food.
02:18But after they pay all their bills and for children and that, they've got next to nothing.
02:24They can't really.
02:25It's just so costly.
02:26The cost of living is just ridiculous.
02:30This decision had unintended consequences, because the consequences are the collapse
02:35of the sector.
02:38And what would happen then?
02:39I'd rather not think about that, to be honest, because you can't imagine a society and a
02:46community without being able to support the most vulnerable.
02:51Well, quite worrying there.
02:52And Maureen and Shea are joining me here in the studio.
02:55Maureen, I'm going to go to you first on this one, because it's clearly a test case here
02:59in Kent, showing that the 15 per cent contribution for employers and national insurance isn't
03:05necessarily working for some in the charity sector.
03:08It raises the question, should there be an exemption on this for charities?
03:13I think, and I've checked these figures, hence I've written them down or typed them up, is
03:19there's been a doubling of the employment allowance to £10,500, meaning more than half
03:24of charities with national insurance liabilities will either gain or see no change next year.
03:31And that's potentially being put in, especially those smaller charities that do the really
03:37good work.
03:38They'll still be able to get their national insurance reliefs and are still exempt from
03:42business rates.
03:44So it's about an all-around package.
03:49And actually, the tax regime for charities last year was in the region of £6 billion.
03:57So whilst there are concerns, there are, whilst not totally exempt, there is issues that,
04:08although they're concerned, there are packages in place and there has been adjustments to
04:12the allowances.
04:13Obviously, beneficial for those smaller charities, but those bigger organisations are providing
04:17support like the Kent Autistic Trust provides help for hundreds of people here in Kent.
04:24Isn't it just going to put more emphasis on those bigger organisations that perhaps provide
04:29wider reaching support instead?
04:31I mean, I think if you look at the comments made by some people with, and I wouldn't put
04:36the Kent Autistic Trust actually as one of the larger charities.
04:40If you look at the big national charities and look at what they pay their chief executives
04:45in that, there is money there.
04:47But I think we've targeted to protect the most vulnerable areas that we can in a very
04:54difficult economic climate.
04:56That's the reality of it.
04:58Shay, obviously you've been involved in numerous community interest companies, different from
05:04charities but with similar aims and ambitions and have worked quite extensively with the
05:09voluntary sector as well.
05:11What do you make of these national insurance rises?
05:14Do you think that they're doing what they say on the 10?
05:17No, no.
05:18I mean, I spoke to some charities in Medway in the last couple of days.
05:23One large charity who employs 62 people locally is facing a bill of £600 a day now.
05:30And that's added to what they're doing.
05:32That's three and a half grand a week.
05:34And there's nothing that is being put forward by Labour that is going to see them recoup
05:39three and a half grand a week.
05:41So that's three and a half thousand pounds a week taken out of directly feeding people
05:44who are hungry.
05:46So it's not working.
05:48It's a bad idea and it could be reversed.
05:51Charities should not be paying the extra national insurance.
05:55What do you make of that?
05:56Because obviously, could there be a way that we put more of the money onto bigger companies,
06:00bigger business, rather than these smaller voluntary organisations that we see in Kent
06:06that seemingly are struggling, from what we've heard from Shae there?
06:09So I think with Shae, she's got a Labour council and Labour MPs that Shae can engage with.
06:17And I'm sure they will speak to Rachel Reeve and the Treasury team around that.
06:23But at the moment, we are where we are.
06:25And I think that it's about engaging with local communities, which I think you have
06:32the opportunity.
06:33Yeah, I agree with that.
06:35We are where we are.
06:36But by the time anything is done, if it's not done immediately, some of these charities
06:40will have had to lay people off, will have had to reduce the scope of what they do.
06:46And in the current climate, with what we're facing, any charity reducing the scope of
06:51what it does is a negative thing.
06:53There is no positive spin for that.
06:56And I just want to get into that, because what do you think some of the impacts could
06:59be?
07:00Because you do lots of work in Medway, as an activist and as a key member of Medway's
07:06LGBTQ plus community.
07:08You do lots of work.
07:10And obviously, these charities do help the most vulnerable.
07:12What do you think the impacts could be from your perspective?
07:15From my perspective, the impact we're seeing automatically is that these people just will
07:19have to cut back on things like food banks.
07:22We'll have to cut back on clothing banks.
07:24We'll have to cut back on giving people money to help with heating.
07:29You can't rob Peter and rob Paul.
07:33The money has to come from somewhere.
07:35And I'm not really convinced this is a necessary policy.
07:38I think it's been ill thought out.
07:40I think it probably looked good on paper.
07:43And I think when you start to talk to people who are being impacted by it, and you suddenly
07:47realise that, like I say, one small charity in Medway, £600 a day extra.
07:52Obviously, the government do say they are struggling with difficult financial decisions,
07:56£22 billion black holes that we keep hearing.
07:58And they have put an exemption in place for public sector organisations.
08:02So there might be some that do benefit, that do provide vital services.
08:07Do you think that public sector exemption is fair, Maureen?
08:10Do you think that that is a good idea?
08:13What do you think that the public sector is exempt, where small charities, company interest
08:18companies don't necessarily have the same sort of benefits, although there is that allowance
08:21that you mentioned?
08:22I think, obviously, as I say, there is the allowance and the doubling of that allowance
08:27for the smaller charities.
08:31In terms of the public sector, they are frontline workers, social care, NHS, etc.
08:40So it's about getting the economy going again so that we can deliver what we promised on.
08:49And I think that's something, we've talked about it before, Oliver, you know, it's turning
08:55round a supertanker.
08:57And I think there are really difficult times ahead for everyone.
09:02But we've had 14 years of austerity when literally everything was gutted by the previous government.
09:10And I just remain hopeful that we can target resources where they're needed and target
09:19the improvement that we can deliver in the economy.
09:22Because obviously minimum wage is increasing as part of these budget measures.
09:25That might actually help lift some of the people who are using these services out of
09:29poverty, out of desperation.
09:32Do you think the minimum wage is going to help offset some of these national insurance
09:35contributions?
09:36Obviously, though, these charities will be struggling, but maybe this might reduce service
09:39use?
09:40No.
09:41Service use is predicted by any charity you talk to that runs food banks to increase dramatically
09:47over the course of the next five years.
09:49Yes, minimum wage has gone up and that's brilliant.
09:51But we are also seeing, you know, food prices go up, fuel prices go up.
09:56What you're given extra in minimum wage is going to disappear rapidly into a black hole
10:00of needing to feed your kids, needing to heat your home.
10:04And obviously, as someone who does extensive work at Maidstone Borough Council, I was kind
10:09of interested to know, obviously, while there's a big KCC issue and they are having to provide
10:14some uplift, but not enough to meet the 11% extra that the care providers say they're
10:19going to need.
10:20Do you think this is going to put additional costs on overstretched public services?
10:24We also know Medway has struggled in the past with their finances as well.
10:28I think the difference, obviously, between Medway and Maidstone is Medway is a unitary
10:32authority.
10:33For decades, the cost in social care, both adults and children, has literally been death
10:42by a thousand cuts.
10:45So we in the districts and boroughs are seeing an increase in people coming to us and we're
10:53picking up a lot of the slack.
10:54Obviously, that's different in Medway because Medway is responsible for the whole kit and
11:00caboodle, as it were, and did inherit a pretty dire situation.
11:07In terms of managing the Household Support Fund and temporary accommodation, I think
11:15a way we can look at where the biggest pressures are on districts and boroughs, and certainly
11:21on unitaries as well, and trying to get that message through that we shouldn't be having
11:27people sleeping on the streets and temporary accommodation needs to be decent.
11:33Temporary accommodation, I think, is where Maidstone would talk to.
11:37I'd love to bring you in on this, but we've just come to our ad break.
11:41I'm sure we'll get more discussions after the break.
11:44Coming up after the break, though, an indefinite ban on puberty blockers for under 18s.
11:48What does it mean here in Kent?
11:50And the loophole that's letting Maidstone hospitality businesses fake their hygiene
11:54ratings.
11:55See you in a few minutes.
15:07Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show, live here on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians
15:15talking.
15:16I'm still joined by Maureen Cleetor, the leader of the Labour group at Maidstone Borough
15:20Council, and Shea Coffey, co-founder of Medway Pride Radio.
15:25But next tonight, an uncertain future for trans children here in Kent, as the UK government
15:30has put in place an indefinite ban on puberty blockers for under 18s.
15:36It follows the Independent Commission on Human Medicines, which states there's currently
15:40an unacceptable safety risk in their continued prescription, with legislation being reviewed
15:46in 2027.
15:48But not everyone agrees.
15:50Well, both the health secretary and the MP for Ashford, Sergeant Joseph, have outlined
15:57the reasons why they are supporting the ban.
16:01Of particular concern to the commission was whether these children and their families
16:05were provided with enough time and information to give their full and informed consent.
16:12The Commission on Human Medicines found that children had received prescriptions after
16:16filling out online questionnaires, and having one brief Zoom call with prescribers from
16:22outside the UK.
16:25Some of the decisions were rushed through or taken without enough evidences, so this
16:32is why I think we need a bit more time, look into a bit more details.
16:36So I'm not able to give a specific time frame, but I definitely support this decision so
16:44that we have more time, more research, more evidences available before we change the law.
16:51Well, Maureen and Shay, join me here in the studio, and Shay, I want to go to you on this
16:56one.
16:57What do you make of the ban being discussed here by Labour?
17:00Obviously, there are some concerns we've heard in the Parliament there.
17:04Do you agree with them?
17:05No.
17:06The ban is absolutely dreadful.
17:09It's the worst kind of pseudoscience, and it is pseudoscience.
17:13It's based primarily on the Cass report, which has been torn to shreds by every major medical
17:19organisation in the world.
17:22And Labour are making a dreadful mistake and setting a dreadful precedent on body autonomy.
17:30Maureen, what do you make of this?
17:32It is a highly contentious issue, but obviously it's one that Labour government are pursuing
17:38at the moment.
17:39Do you think that this is a legitimate discussion around healthcare policy here?
17:43I don't think it's around the policy.
17:47It's around the long-term use of puberty blockers.
17:52For example, I know, for example, a young female member of my family had to take some
17:59starter day periods when she was eight, and it was really awful for her, and they were
18:04used short-term.
18:05I think from what Wes Streeting said in Parliament, and that's what I've read, is that it's to
18:13look at the impact of long-term usage of puberty blockers.
18:19I think also we need to accept around this as well is the appalling lack of holistic
18:26all-round support for young trans people, and I think that as well is something that
18:34needs to be looked at as a matter of urgency.
18:38You have a wealth of information on puberty blockers.
18:42They've been used since 1989 in the NHS, so it's not like a modern phenomenon.
18:48The impact is well-known.
18:49The impact, even in the CAS report, the CAS report itself states that puberty blockers
18:53are safe.
18:54The CAS report says that.
18:56It's been whipped up by people who essentially don't like trans people to say that there's
19:01other issues in there, and for someone like Wes Streeting to say, well, the CAS report
19:07says it's unsafe, does really, let's be honest, you've got a wealth of experience, and if
19:16you need, what the CAS report actually says is that puberty blockers are ineffective over
19:21the age of 15.
19:22Now, if you need a £2 million report to tell you that by 15 the bulk of teenagers are through
19:30the bulk of puberty, you're not fit to be in post, and Wes Streeting is not fit to be
19:37in post.
19:38But there are concerns around unacceptable safety risks.
19:41That's what we've been hearing.
19:43Do you not think that further clinical trials might help further the arguments for their usage?
19:48They might do, but banning them completely in the meantime just means for certain that
19:52you're driving people onto the internet, and families are taking to the internet and are
19:57going via routes that aren't approved, that aren't safe, that aren't medicalised.
20:03And that's down to Labour.
20:06Labour have put that in place.
20:08Labour have put the block in place.
20:09Labour have put the ban in place.
20:11That's what are driving people onto the internet.
20:14And what do you make of that?
20:15Because obviously the Labour manifesto, which you actually stood on earlier this year, says
20:20we will remove the indignities for trans people who deserve recognition and acceptance, stating
20:25they will also modernise, simplify and reform the intrusive and outdated gender recognition
20:32law.
20:33Not only have we not really seen much around that law so far, do you think that this is
20:37actually going to help remove those indignities that we've heard described in the manifesto?
20:43I think we're early into the parliament in terms of there's quite a lot of work to be
20:48done over a five-year period.
20:50I think that the ban was a temporary ban, and I agree, was brought in by the previous
21:00government.
21:01I think West Streets has been clear.
21:05I'm also quite concerned that we have a history of negligence with, actually, prescription.
21:15So whether that's thalidomide, whether that's factor VIII, whether that's, and I think...
21:22We also have a history of ignoring patients and their parents.
21:26Things like the LAM report, that was quite a long time ago now, said that we need to
21:30pay more attention to the parents.
21:32We need to focus their concerns when we discuss medical problems.
21:36We need to take into account the patient and sometimes the youth of them.
21:41What we don't need to do is ban them, criminalise parents, and ensure that these kids don't
21:46get any support, because that's how the kids see it.
21:50And I absolutely agree about listening to parents, and there will be people on the opposite
21:54side who say, actually, we weren't listened to.
21:58I think we need to have proper medical research done.
22:02It needs to be to confirm the evidence that you say is available, and I think we also
22:08need to deal with the other issues around young people as well, whether trans or not,
22:15which is the appalling state of mental health services and the support that they need, because
22:20it's holistic support that's needed.
22:22But with the banning puberty blockers, what you're doing is forcing kids into more mental
22:27health services that are already overwhelmed, rather than saying, actually, this is a provably
22:33safe route that we've had for 35 years.
22:36Ideologically, West Streeting doesn't like it, so ideologically, West Streeting has banned
22:40it, and that sets a dreadful precedent.
22:43What if he doesn't suddenly like abortions or women's medicines?
22:47Well, West Streeting is not here to defend himself in the room right now.
22:52He doesn't seem to want to meet with anybody, though, does he, because he hasn't met with
22:55any trans groups.
22:56Well, I don't know who West Streeting has or has not met with.
23:00Obviously, it's a highly emotive topic and something that we're looking into closely
23:04in the coming weeks and months to get a full understanding of what this ban actually means.
23:10But let's discuss another topic tonight.
23:14Just for the end of the show, can we trust where we go to eat here in Kent, when our
23:18local democracy reporter Gabriel Morris has been finding out why the takeaway he bought
23:23the other night may not be as hygienic as you first thought?
23:27You've probably all seen these stickers before.
23:30It's the rating which the local authority inspectors have given a food outlet.
23:35It's between zero and five, five being the best, zero being the lowest.
23:39However, did you know it's not against the law for businesses to display an old rating
23:45or an incorrect rating, which might be higher than they actually have?
23:49At the start of December, 22 outlets in Maidstone Town Centre had a food hygiene rating of three
23:55or below.
23:56We found 12 of these businesses displaying no rating at all, seven showing an inflated
24:02score, and two claiming they were awaiting inspection when they weren't.
24:08Altogether, 95% of these businesses were not displaying their most recent certificate.
24:15Well, we don't have much time on this, but I know I've braved plenty of chippy shops
24:20at night.
24:21It does kind of make you think, doesn't it?
24:23How worrying do you find these fake ratings that we've seen dotted around Maidstone?
24:28It implies it's probably happening all across Kent.
24:30Well, I'll be honest, until tonight, I didn't know there were fake ratings.
24:34I'm really worried now.
24:35What about you, Maureen?
24:36Because obviously, this is like your council, your borough.
24:40Yeah, and I think, to be fair, the council has been really strict on taking action, but
24:47to me, the Food Standards Agency, it's a voluntary rating here in England, it's not elsewhere.
24:56And I think maybe that's one of the things we need to look at because, you know, it may
25:00be all right if you've had a few scoops and you're on your way home and you might not
25:04even be able to read what the rating is, not too particular, but actually it's a very serious
25:10issue here.
25:11My son's got Crohn's, so actually he would really be severely impacted if, you know,
25:18he went to a place that wasn't up to scratch.
25:22But I think, actually, if you're putting fake, you know, ratings up, and I fully accept that
25:28you can have a rating, they can do an inspection, you've maybe got a couple of things wrong,
25:33and sometimes it's the paperwork, but if you've got a two or a three, there's some serious
25:38issues there.
25:39Four, it's usually you haven't done the paperwork properly.
25:42And especially, like, you figure five up as well, and it is a thing, it's not compulsory
25:46in the UK, not in England, but in other parts of the UK, like Northern Ireland and Wales,
25:50it is compulsory.
25:52Just very quickly before we go, do you guys want to see that introduced, make it compulsory
25:55here in Kent and beyond?
25:57Yes.
25:58Yes.
25:59I think we've agreed on something!
26:00A bit of agreement before we end, thank you both for coming in tonight, lots of topics,
26:07and you can read the full report on Kent Online.
26:11But thank you so much for watching, we'll be back all week, next week actually, with
26:15a political debate that gets Kent's politicians talking.
26:19You can go to Kent Online for more news and views, as well as listen to the Kent Politics
26:24Podcast, which I'm going to be doing on the way home tonight.
26:28As well as keeping up with the Kent Politics Briefing, great weekend reading, I'm sure
26:35you can agree.
26:36So that really is everything, I'll be back next week with the last episode of the year,
26:40but for me, for now, have a very lovely evening.