Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Sofia Akin joined by Conservative KCC Councillor Clair Bell and Labour's Tristan Osborne from Medway Council.
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00:00 Hello and welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm Sophia Akin and coming up
00:28 on tonight's show, a campaign group in Folkestone is fighting to restore bus services in the
00:34 county after Stagecoach cut several routes. Plus, they want to bring it back into public
00:39 ownership. And the leader of Kent County Council's renewed calls to get the Eurostar to rethink
00:44 bringing back trains to Ebbsfleet and Ashford, which haven't run since the pandemic. Roger
00:49 Goff says Kent's businesses say they're struggling since trains in the county stopped. Also this
00:54 week, Medway's been identified as one of the worst areas in the south east for food poverty.
01:00 Figures from the Trussell Trust this week revealed it distributed more than 15,000 food
01:05 parcels in Medway between April last year and March this year. All that and more to
01:10 be discussed. But first, Folkestone residents say a bus company's decision to axe services
01:16 in the town has isolated the communities who rely on buses like the elderly and disabled.
01:22 The campaign group Save Our Buses is now calling to restore bus services and put services back
01:27 into public ownership. Yesterday, I caught up with some residents who say the past eight
01:32 months with a reduced service has been hell.
01:35 Not everybody wants to drive in anyway. We're supposed to be lowering emissions, aren't
01:40 we? They're providing services to the cricket match. We can't get to the hospital without
01:45 having three buses now in Kent and Canterbury Hospital. That's ridiculous.
01:48 I use my car, but I'm getting to the age now when I really can't afford to run a car. Sometimes
01:56 you can wait for nearly half an hour before the bus turns up. And then when it does turn
02:01 up, there's two or three together.
02:03 Well, joining me tonight is Claire Bell from Kent County Council and Tris Osborne from
02:09 Medway Council. Thank you to both of you for joining us. So, yeah, I want to start off
02:13 by talking about bus services. We heard from some residents there who were saying that
02:18 they really rely on it and the past eight months have been quite difficult since Stagecoach
02:21 have reduced and cut some of its services. We also saw last year KCC cut 38 of its subsidised
02:29 bus routes. They said it was a difficult decision that had to be made, but we can see that it's
02:34 something that the local community really rely on, don't they, Claire?
02:39 They do, certainly. And I have a great deal of sympathy with the people in your video
02:43 and anyone whose bus service has been reduced. I mean, bus services are run on a commercial
02:49 basis by commercial operators. And unfortunately, it appears that since the pandemic, passenger
02:56 numbers have not recovered. There are also difficulties generally with rising costs and
03:04 recruiting drivers, et cetera. And unfortunately, they have had to cut some services across
03:09 the county. In terms of Kent County Council and subsidised buses, we have had to look
03:18 at all of our what we call discretionary spend over the last few years and continue to do
03:24 so to balance our budget, which we have to do by law. And we've had to make some really
03:30 difficult and painful decisions. And we have had to reduce bus subsidies as part of that
03:36 programme of reducing our expenditure. And we spoke to a Labour councillor from KCC
03:42 who'd said that the reason KCC had had to make this decision was due to less money from
03:47 the government. But the Department for Transport said that they'd still invested, I think it
03:51 was £40 million to KCC for its bus service. So, it seems, yeah, the council is struggling
03:59 sort of financially, but then the residents are still relying on this service. So, what
04:02 do you think we can do about this? Well, certainly, there has been some extra
04:06 funding, although there are criteria attached to that and I believe you can't use it for
04:11 certain routes or et cetera. But we have used some of that money. It's difficult. I mean,
04:17 I appreciate that was Folkestone, but Kent is a big rural county and inevitably, it's
04:24 going to have transport issues. I mean, just thinking about my own area where a stagecoach
04:33 cut a service about a year or so ago, I supported the residents' campaign to get that and they
04:40 did restore it. However, it came very clearly with the stipulation that if people didn't
04:46 use the bus, it would be cut. And I know one lady actually saying to me, "Yeah, I understand
04:53 that. I was on the bus last week and I was the only passenger." So, the services have
04:57 to be viable financially, but at the end of the day, we need more people to use the buses.
05:06 We've seen a similar problem in Medway with residents complaining about delays and things
05:10 like that on the buses. And one of the suggestions that this campaign group Save Our Buses made
05:16 was putting bus services back into public ownership. And I know this is something the
05:20 National Labour Party has called on. Is that something that you would get behind, Tress?
05:24 Yeah, absolutely. So, we've said as a regional body that we would support any move towards
05:31 a nationalised bus service. And the reason for that is that private sector provision
05:35 isn't working. It's the same on the railways. We're increasing costs for people, the service
05:39 has declined. But actually, there is a truth to what is being said here that the subsidy
05:44 has significantly reduced. We've seen KCC and Medway having to make some incredibly
05:48 difficult decisions in local government. And on discretionary spend like bus fees, it has
05:53 decreased. And I'm afraid that is a result of the last 14 years of government. And that's
05:57 what we've seen as a result. And some of these are very difficult decisions and the community
06:02 does deserve better. And if you look at the example in Manchester, where the Mayor, Andy
06:05 Burnham, has taken his powers to re-nationalise the buses there under the B network. Actually,
06:11 we've seen numbers of people in footfall increase. So, if you are going to do it, it has to be
06:16 a sensible approach to it. We would need to work in partnership with Kent as well. We
06:21 couldn't just do it in Medway because of the way that we've links in with other nearby
06:25 boroughs. So, it would need to be a conversation that would need to be had. But in my view,
06:29 in principle, I think the privatised provision that we've had hasn't worked.
06:34 Claire, would you kind of agree with that as well? As Chris says, we've seen it work
06:38 quite well in Manchester. Do you think it could work well? We've seen it in other parts
06:43 of the country too.
06:44 Yeah, I think it's difficult to compare Manchester with Kent. I mean, it's obviously a densely
06:49 populated metropolitan area and a completely different environment to be operating in.
06:56 But in terms of bringing buses into public ownership, I have to say I'm quite open-minded
07:02 about it. I try to resist being ideologically in favour of everything being in the private
07:10 sector. It's obviously my inclination. But I think it's something that should be looked
07:16 at and it's definitely something worth considering because the system is not perfect. Now, whether
07:23 that is the answer, I don't know. I'm not sure it's going to magically drum up people
07:28 using the bus more. And of course, the subsidies or the operating costs and so on, if they're
07:35 not met by the fare-paying passenger, will be met by the taxpayer. And that is, for me,
07:42 is a bit of a problem.
07:44 And while we're on transport, something that's been back in the news this week is the Eurostar.
07:49 We know that it's not run in Kent since the pandemic, since 2020. And we've seen businesses
07:55 calling out for this. We've seen a petition with 54,000 signatures asking for people to
08:00 bring it back. And we've seen Roger Goff this week renewing calls to get the Eurostar to
08:04 discuss that, to get it back running in Kent. But it's been a few years now and the Eurostar
08:10 still aren't committing to it coming back maybe even next year. Claire, you're in Ashford.
08:16 Are you hopeful that we could see those services restored?
08:19 Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's a great loss to Ashford not to have, and I'm sure
08:23 to WebSpeed as well, not to have the service stopping there. As you say, Kent County Council
08:27 has been forceful in voicing our support for the service to come back. We had a large scale
08:38 survey of businesses that took place quite recently. And the response to that we can
08:44 use to build our case with government and with the operators. And I think it's the case
08:49 of everybody working together. I mean, I see this very much as a cross-party issue.
08:52 Yeah, because it doesn't just impact Ashford, does it? It's all of Kent. All of Kent can
08:56 benefit from this. And Medway, I'm sure you'd agree, Trish. But yeah, it's been a while
09:01 now and there are actually other train operators which would be interested in taking this on.
09:06 So, is the Eurostar going to be too late before somebody else snaps this up?
09:11 Potentially. I mean, whoever the operator is, we want to see the services back. I know
09:18 Eurostar this week announced expanded services to Europe, which I think is good news for
09:25 everybody. It shows the rail industry must be in a pretty good place and there are new
09:29 operators as well who are expressing interest. But as I say, I think it's a case of all of
09:35 us working together. I know that my own MP in Ashford, Damien Green, is working incredibly
09:40 hard on this as well. And I'm sure that if we speak to government and we try to address
09:49 issues such as the border controls, which is I think another reason why it's quite difficult
09:54 to come back to Ashford. And of course, we've got new border controls coming in later on
09:59 this year. But if we can overcome these problems and show that the demand is there, then I'm
10:05 pretty confident that at some point we'll be able to get the service back stopping in
10:09 Ashford and Epstein. Tristan, it's all of Kent's businesses and
10:13 passengers rely on this. We know not as many people are travelling since the pandemic.
10:17 But how much responsibility lies with councillors and local authorities to, I guess, lobby the
10:23 Eurostar to try and get these services back so that Kent's economy can thrive?
10:27 Well, the Labour administration, Medway, has offered its support actually and we've signed
10:31 and agreed a joint message on this. Because actually, what benefits Maidstone or Ashford
10:36 benefits Medway from not only for people living, but also supply chains and also people accessing.
10:42 And clearly, there does need to be a review of how the immigration control will work.
10:46 That's the current sticking block, I think, in this case, is how do you manage that with
10:50 the new controls that have happened since Brexit. And there is a resolution to that,
10:54 of course. And I think this needs to be at a higher level. But I think there is real
10:58 importance of local councillors and MPs really pushing this forward because this has a direct
11:03 impact on businesses. If it doesn't stop there, we don't get any of the economic benefit from
11:09 that. And actually, businesses might choose to move elsewhere as a result. So there is
11:12 a real impetus now to try and get that service resolved. And I think that needs to happen
11:17 with the Foreign Office as well at a higher level than us to try and get that service
11:22 engaged as part of a diplomatic engagement. It's time for us to take a short break now,
11:26 but plenty more issues to discuss straight after the break. Coming up after the break,
11:31 we'll be discussing Medway has been identified as one of the worst areas in the South East
11:35 for food poverty as 15,000 food parcels were handed out by the Trussell Trust in the last
11:41 financial year. And the Labour leader, Sakhiya Starmer, has unveiled what Labour would do
11:45 if it wins the general election. All that and more to be discussed. See you after the
11:49 break.
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15:08 Hello and welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KNTV. Now, Medway is one of the
15:15 worst areas for food poverty in the South East according to the Trussell Trust. It comes
15:20 as new figures have revealed that nearly 350,000 food parcels were distributed to those struggling
15:27 to afford essentials across the South East last year. The Trust says more needs to be
15:31 done but the Department for Work and Pensions say they've already stopped more than a million
15:36 people falling into food poverty. We spoke to the Trussell Trust earlier this week.
15:42 A large number of those people who receive food parcels from us are in families and have
15:47 children and it's absolutely tragic that so many people in Medway and in Kent and indeed
15:53 in the UK generally are growing up in poverty and are suffering because of the inadequacies
16:01 of the social security system, the problem of unaffordable housing and the scourge of
16:07 insecure and low paid work. You throw the cost of living crisis on top of that and children
16:13 are really suffering and it's just not right.
16:15 We're still joined by Tris Osborne from Medway Council and Claire Bell from Kent County Council.
16:22 So Tris we'll start with you. Disappointing to hear that Medway is struggling so much
16:27 and these figures have been rising in recent years. Did this surprise you when you heard
16:31 this this week?
16:32 I mean sadly not. We've seen a huge increase in the use of food banks in Medway ever since
16:38 2010 and a lot of this is related to, as has been said by Mike Evans here, the social security
16:44 system not being fit for purpose. I represented Luton which is a very deprived area in Medway.
16:50 We have a significant number of those in Medway relative to other parts of Kent which is relatively
16:55 affluent in comparison to some of these places. But Kent has its own issues as well. Parts
17:00 of Thanet and Sheerness as well also have similar demographics and challenges. And as
17:05 is correctly said this has been exacerbated by a cost of living crisis. The Trust Mini
17:09 budget I'm afraid which saw a 10% increase in inflation has impacted food prices and
17:16 as a result of that also has impacted the amount of thefts in supermarkets as well where
17:20 they are now having to put security tags on everyday items like baby milk which is really
17:25 depressing.
17:26 I've heard about, yeah, they're calling for this urgent reform of the social security
17:30 system. They're saying all political leaders as we're approaching a general election should
17:34 be talking about how they would approach this. We heard Keir Starmer this week announcing
17:39 his policies, many in there about growth for the economy but not necessarily much about
17:45 sort of how to help people with the cost of living crisis. So people watching might not
17:50 necessarily be confident that Labour could change the system for them either, for those
17:55 struggling with the cost of living.
17:57 Well I would challenge you somewhat. I mean last year we did a lot of work on cost of
18:01 living around support for energy costs and also in fact when we took the council in Medway
18:07 within the first month Keir Starmer had got leaders of the Labour groups across the country
18:11 together and put together packages in each of our respective areas. In Medway we're giving
18:16 vouchers and support to our most vulnerable residents. So I would challenge you on what
18:20 we're doing locally.
18:21 He hasn't mentioned it this week though, has he?
18:22 This week Gordon Brown has been, you can watch many news channels, he's been out saying that
18:26 poverty has increased and there needs to be a journey on this. We've only started our
18:31 manifesto process. Today was, as I say, the first six pledges have come out on our pledge
18:35 card. There will be more depth to our policy position. And can I just lastly say in 2010
18:40 the food bank usage was significantly lower than it is today and due to our redistributive
18:45 measures on taxation the poorest 50% in our society did get wealthier between '97 and
18:51 '98. And we do have answers around stopping zero-hour contracts and other types of policies
18:57 that the trade unions and others are supporting that will directly challenge poverty both
19:02 in schools and also with adults as well. So I will say that there is a lot of work that
19:06 we have done. There is a lot more still to do.
19:09 Yeah, I mean we're seeing the number of people needing food banks rising quite drastically.
19:14 Claire, what would you, yeah, we heard from the Trussell Trust saying that whoever's next
19:19 in power needs to urgently kind of reform the system. I mean, Rishi Sunak, the Conservatives
19:25 have been in government for many years now. What can the Prime Minister be doing to assure
19:31 people that if he wants to stay in power there won't be as much of a need for food banks
19:36 and also support for food banks who are having, a lot of them having to self-fund this?
19:41 Absolutely. I mean life is very tough for a lot of people at the moment and not just
19:46 in parts of Medway and what we might call the less affluent parts of Kent but right
19:51 across the county. And it's not just food banks. There are a lot of volunteer organisations
19:57 and charities providing community ladders and kitchens and so on. So it's something
20:03 that affects a large number of people all over. I think in the long term, you mentioned
20:11 about the economy. I think that is the answer is to have a strong economy and to have work
20:19 so that people can work, that they're not overburdened with taxes. I appreciate, you
20:26 know, things are not going, an awful lot of things have happened in the last few years
20:29 that have come together. We've had the pandemic. We've also had, you know, the war in Ukraine.
20:36 All of these things affect the price of food and all sorts of other items as well. And
20:44 just simply the cost of the pandemic too, which, you know, it has to be accounted for
20:52 and at some point, you know, we have to, I think, accept that it's going to be a few
20:58 years perhaps before the economy properly recovers. I mean we've seen some, you know,
21:02 inflation is coming down. It's come down quite a lot. In fact, it's more than half.
21:08 That was one of Rishi's pledges. And I think just getting the economy back on track and
21:14 as I say, work and low taxes is the answer in the long term. But in the meantime, absolutely
21:23 we support people. We give some support from KCC as well. We have some crisis funding that
21:27 we give and then there's free school meals too for some children. But I do acknowledge
21:32 it is life is very difficult for many people.
21:36 Despite the fact, you know, we're now officially out of a recession. People are still at the
21:41 moment seeing the price of foods on their shelves still much higher than they were before
21:45 the pandemic. So I guess for the foreseeable, there are people at the moment having to go
21:51 to food banks that have never before had to go to food banks. There's been such a rise.
21:54 So it doesn't necessarily provide a lot of comfort to viewers to know that the country
22:00 is in kind of financial troubles of their own. So I guess what can we do immediately?
22:06 You know, you say it's going to take a few years, but what can we do immediately to help
22:09 these people that are having to go to food banks and thousands of those numbers in Medway
22:14 were children as well. So what can we do immediately to help these people?
22:20 I think it's a question of, as you mentioned, the social security system. And as I say,
22:29 there are many voluntary groups all over the county who are helping out with that. But
22:35 honestly, I think we just have to keep on trying to improve. Housing was also mentioned
22:44 too, which is another issue which people in poverty will often experience problems with.
22:52 So again, it's all of us working together. It's the district councils. It's all of us.
22:58 But there isn't a quick solution and there isn't an easy answer.
23:02 And I mean, I'll come back to you Trish, as we saw these numbers particularly bad in Medway.
23:06 Some people listening would say it doesn't help that they're now having to pay more in
23:09 council tax and things like that. So yeah, what sort of support is the council providing?
23:15 People are having to pay more, not only in the shops, but in their council tax too.
23:18 Well, of course, individuals will have a gradation of council tax depending on the property they
23:23 occupy. And in fact, the very poorest might not pay any council tax at all, depending
23:27 on their circumstances. So the council tax system does take that into account. But you
23:31 are right, we have seen council tax rises across the entire country. And that's a result
23:35 of the fact that local government budgets, whether you're a blue council or a red council
23:39 or a yellow council, have been reduced by central government based on inflation. So
23:43 if you take into account inflation, they've not given us that increase. So councils are
23:46 having to make those very difficult decisions. Just on the food bank, what we can do to support
23:51 people, however, absolutely it is the economy. That was centrepiece of our Kirstalmer announcement
23:57 to have a stable economy. The economy, we are now the most highly taxed we've been now
24:02 in 70 years. Now, part of that is the pandemic. But food bank usage was going up before the
24:07 Ukraine crisis and before the pandemic took place as well. So there are some structural
24:12 elements in society which are not working at the moment. Having a proper living wage,
24:17 I think, will be an important milestone and we've committed to that. I think we need some
24:21 structural reform around employment practices, zero hour contracts, so that people who are
24:26 on poverty wages or people who are working can have some stability in the workplace so
24:30 that they know where their paycheck is coming. And I think that's important too. And then
24:34 I think lastly, we do need some intervention in schools as well. I think we need to be
24:38 targeting much more on the deprived students to give them access to the same services and
24:43 resources that some of our wealthiest students have. So this is not, as has been said, this
24:48 is not a simple solution. But ultimately, this does come down to having a growing economy
24:52 and economic stability. And just quickly before we go, you mentioned
24:57 sort of Keir Sarmat's laid out his five missions this week. We won't go into all of them, I
25:02 don't think we've got the time. But a few people have said that actually some of them
25:05 are really similar to what the Prime Minister's already currently pledged, things like cutting
25:09 NHS waiting lists, which was one of Rishi Sunak's pledges when he came in. So what would
25:14 you say to those people who are saying he's just copying the Prime Minister in some ways?
25:18 Well, they haven't delivered cutting waiting lists. That's the problem. Since 2010, the
25:23 waiting lists have massively increased and skyrocketed. We're now having significantly
25:28 larger waiting times. And that, by the way, happened with the last Conservative government
25:31 between 1979 and '97. And it took a Labour government to come in to reduce the waiting
25:36 lists. By 2010, the lowest on record. The NHS was at its peak in terms of its efficiency
25:43 and working to deliver for people. And there's still more to do there. So we would say that
25:47 our pledges are deliverable. We've not overpromised. The numbers there are meaningful and good.
25:53 We can be held to account on. And we've committed to restructuring the NHS workforce plan. We've
25:58 committed to increasing the number of doctors and nurses. By the way, policies copied by
26:02 the Conservatives. I want to bring Clare in before we go. Would
26:05 you agree that what some people have said that Keir Starmer's pledges are kind of quite
26:10 copying the Prime Minister? Absolutely. I don't see a lot of difference
26:14 between them, particularly on the issue of immigration and the boats, the small boats.
26:23 I can't really see anything dramatic that he's going to do to help that situation. What
26:30 I have heard from him is that one of the first things he will do is to scrap the Rwanda scheme,
26:38 which I appreciate it's controversial. Not everybody agrees with it. But I'm surprised
26:44 to hear that. I mean, what if it works? Good question to end on. We've run out of time,
26:49 I'm afraid. But thank you to you both for joining us. See you after this break.
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