Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Cllr Roger Gough, Conservative leader of Kent County Council, and Cllr Jackie Meade, Labour Kent County Councillor for Folkestone East.
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians
00:27talking.
00:28I'm Oliver Leader of the Saks and just like that Kent's MPs are back on recess ahead of
00:33party conference season.
00:34But it doesn't mean there haven't been some big headlines for Kent this week, with many
00:39of our representatives voting to cut the winter fuel allowance and the county's GPs are divided
00:45over proposed NHS reforms.
00:48Well to make sense of it all, I would normally have been joined by Stuart Jeffery, the Green
00:52Leader of Maystone Borough Council, who's currently caught in a bit of traffic and former
00:56Government advisor and Conservative commentator from Sevenoaks, Clare Pearsall.
01:02But before all of that, the winter fuel allowance is the big talking point here in Kent this
01:09week.
01:10Millions of pensioners from across the UK will lose out on hundreds of pounds of fuel
01:14payments this winter after a crunch Commons vote.
01:18Labour MPs voted against a Tory motion to prevent the cut coming into force, with the
01:23government hoping to offset the impacts with pension rises.
01:27So why did Kent's MPs vote the way they did?
01:30We spoke to one who supported the government and one who opposed the cuts to find out.
01:35It is a difficult decision.
01:36I don't doubt it is going to affect some pensioners this winter.
01:41However, there are big rises in the pension happening.
01:45The record of Labour governments, for instance, the last Labour government, is that at the
01:48end of our periods in office, pensioners are taken out of poverty, children are taken out
01:53of poverty, money is redistributed from the best off to the least well off, and I'm very
01:58confident that will happen over the four-year term.
02:00Wouldn't it be much better if young disabled people, for example, who can't run around
02:05and keep warm, received some form of help with their heating bills?
02:10I'm all in favour of the means testing.
02:12What is wrong is the crass, cruel way in which Rachel Reeves and Prime Minister Starmer have
02:21gone about this, and it is going to hurt people.
02:25So Clare, you've been an advisor to government and you work in Parliament, you've worked
02:29there for a number of years now.
02:32What do you think the feeling is on this behind closed doors and what you've heard in Westminster
02:37this week?
02:38Well, pretty much nobody is happy with what the Labour government are doing.
02:43And even if you speak to Labour MPs, a number of them have some real reservations about
02:48how well this is going to go down.
02:50Does it really make a difference into the fiscal black hole that we're all being told
02:54about all the time?
02:57And Conservative MPs are quite rightly pointing out that if this was a Conservative administration
03:01that had done it, the Labour Party would be absolutely screaming at them.
03:05It seems a very pointless thing to do, to deal with the most vulnerable people ahead
03:09of winter when energy prices are going to increase, and essentially Keir Starmer is
03:13being accused of freezing granny for Christmas.
03:16Well, you say the most vulnerable, but this is a means tested policy.
03:22Should wealthy pensioners who aren't necessarily in diaster rates be receiving that £200-£300?
03:28Surely it should be for the most vulnerable this year?
03:30Well, absolutely it should.
03:32And there are some pensioners who don't need to have it.
03:34They have means of their own to be able to heat their home.
03:37But the cut off point is so incredibly low.
03:39And I won't have anybody say to me that a pensioner on £13,000 is well off and
03:46can afford to heat their home, and it's not a problem.
03:49And that's the problem with pension credit.
03:50The cut off is so incredibly low.
03:52If you are only just over that amount, you aren't going to get the £300 this winter.
03:58But won't those that need it, those who are on pension credit and other sorts of benefits,
04:03still be able to get that fuel payment?
04:05It's only going to be for those above a certain cut off point.
04:08Yes.
04:09And as I said, it's not a very high cut off point.
04:11I think it's something like £218 a week.
04:15If that's your income, then you are entitled to receive it.
04:18If you, for example, earn £221 from your pension, then you don't get it.
04:23Now, that isn't an enormous difference.
04:25And those people are still going to be in dire need.
04:27We aren't talking about millionaires.
04:29We are talking about thousands of vulnerable pensioners around the £12,000, £13,000,
04:34£14,000 a year mark with no ability to increase that in any way.
04:39So can we hear from Roger Gale there, Sir Roger Gale, quite an experienced parliamentarian.
04:43He says he doesn't necessarily oppose means testing as an end to itself, just that it
04:49shouldn't be the way it's being implemented.
04:52What would you like to have seen instead?
04:54What would the parliamentarians on the Conservative benches like to have seen if not this proposal
04:59from Labour?
05:00I think if you're looking at this proposal, that it came very, very quickly with very
05:04little forethought.
05:06There was no equality assessment done.
05:07I think that has now been put out there in the media this week.
05:12And that's an appalling state that you don't know how it's going to damage people and you're
05:17bringing in very quickly.
05:18I think one of the better ways of doing it would be perhaps to roll it into the state
05:23pension and therefore you can tax that.
05:27So those vulnerable people who were at the lower end of the earnings scale still wouldn't
05:31be any worse off.
05:32But those with a larger earning potential and getting in a lot more in pensions with
05:37private pensions would be taxed on it.
05:39So the government would still bring in the money and it would be a lot fairer that way?
05:42Well, we'll probably come back to this later in the programme, but next tonight, from heating
05:48to health.
05:49The NHS has been in the spotlight this week following a damning report to the state of
05:53the service, saying it's in serious trouble.
05:56From ballooning wait times to unproductive hospitals, Lord Downs' assessment calls for
06:00more care in the community.
06:02While Sir Keir Starmer wants to allocate more resources to Kent's GPs, he says fresh money
06:07for the service isn't on the agenda at the moment.
06:11The NHS is at a fork in the road and we have a choice about how it should meet those demands.
06:20Don't act and leave it to die, raise taxes on working people or reform to secure its
06:28future.
06:30Working people can't afford to pay more, so it's reform or die.
06:40Well, we are actually now joined by Stuart Jeffery here in the studio, alongside still
06:47Claire Pearsall, and Stuart, I wanted to go to you quickly because you've just joined
06:50us to talk about the NHS report from Lord Darsey.
06:55What do you make of it? What do you think it will mean for health care in Maidstone?
06:59So, I mean, it is quite a damning report.
07:02It lays bare the 14 years of Tory misrule that absolutely have devastated both the NHS
07:09and increased the inequalities.
07:11We've seen life expectancy plateau and fall and obviously we had the utter debacles around
07:19Covid which were worsened drastically by the appalling policies that the Tories brought
07:25in over that period.
07:27I am hopeful that this exposes the root of the problem.
07:32I don't think it goes anywhere near far enough in terms of exposing the lack of training,
07:38for example, and the lack of the need for more clinicians that are most desperately
07:44needed within the NHS.
07:45And it doesn't really say, you know, we need to close that gap in terms of the funding
07:51gap that's appeared.
07:54So, it doesn't yet say we need to put in however many billion it is to start to restore the
08:01NHS to what it was.
08:03But it is useful as a whole report despite that.
08:08Claire, what do you make of that because obviously do the Conservatives bear any responsibility
08:13for the state of the NHS in its current form?
08:17Obviously government for 14 years in some capacity, surely this report indicates that
08:21there is some responsibility to be taken.
08:23Oh absolutely there is responsibility to be taken in 14 years but the Conservative government
08:28did increase the amount of money going into the NHS.
08:31But I think you have to look at successive governments and their inability to deal with
08:37the megalith which is the NHS.
08:40Now if we are all living longer, which we are, then you expect the health service to
08:46be able to keep up with that.
08:47And unfortunately I think what we expect from it and what we put into it are two very, very
08:53different things.
08:54And I think you need to think creatively.
08:56You can't just keep putting money into something.
08:59It isn't always the answer and I don't think that just by piling it in it's going to make
09:03a difference.
09:04I think you need to look at how the private sector can have a relationship.
09:08Now that's not selling off the NHS but it's using the facilities available and getting
09:13some best practice out of both sides of the market.
09:16Strangely, you sound a bit like Keir Starmer there, we can't be putting any more money
09:19into the NHS.
09:20I saw you there, Stuart, you were shaking your head.
09:24What do you make of what Clare just said?
09:26The funding in actual pounds went up, I accept, but it didn't go up anywhere near in terms
09:32of the level of demand that increased during that period.
09:37And Clare talked about people living longer, well they haven't, that's the whole point.
09:42The damage that's been done to the NHS has curtailed that increasing life expectancy.
09:49In those last 14 years.
09:51So that in itself has pushed further demand onto the NHS and doubled down on the problems
09:59that we've seen.
10:00So absolutely, the NHS needs funding, it needs funding properly, it doesn't need the private
10:05sector coming in and taking loads of cash away from it.
10:09I've witnessed it, Clare's never worked in the NHS as far as I'm aware, I've spent my
10:13entire life in the NHS.
10:15Then you will know that the productivity rates within hospitals, there are an awful lot of
10:20people employed whose jobs aren't actually necessary and I agree that we need more clinicians.
10:24Oh no, no, come off it, you please cannot tell me that there are so many pen pushes
10:29and middle managers and diversity officers, why does the NHS need so many of those?
10:34And I don't think that the carving out, and my party has some blame with this, of NHS
10:39England, of different integrated care health boards, the micromanagement and the levels
10:45that we've got are absolutely ridiculous.
10:47Straight out of the Daily Mail, well done.
10:50I mean, blame the managers.
10:53I'm not blaming the managers, what I'm saying to you is that you look at how you procure
10:59things, you're telling me that the NHS is the best in procurement when you're looking
11:03at a major organisation that cannot purchase bandages, paracetamol, plasters at a reasonable
11:09price.
11:10So what do you guys then think of these reforms?
11:11If these issues are so drastic, what do you make of Keir Starmer's reforms this week?
11:15We don't have that long, but maybe a line from both of you on this might be interesting.
11:19I don't think we've seen what those reforms are, all we've got is a report that says there
11:25are some serious problems here and we need to do something about them.
11:29Clare, I'm sorry to cut you off, but I'm going to bring you in very quickly before
11:32the end of the show.
11:33Yeah, no, I think Stuart's right, we haven't actually seen what these reforms are going
11:36to look like and I think we need much more detail before any of us can judge that.
11:41Well, we'll leave it there for the time being, we'll be back in the next couple of minutes
11:45with more political headlines.
14:41Welcome back to the Kemp Politics Show, live on KMTV.
15:10The show on your TV that gets Kent's politicians talking.
15:14Still joining me to discuss Kent's big issues is Stuart Jeffery, the Green leader of Maidstone
15:19Borough Council and former government adviser and conservative commentator Clare Pearsall.
15:25But before all of that, it's been nearly four months since the Green Independent Alliance
15:29took control of Maidstone Borough Council.
15:32But since then we've had a change of government and a change of housing policy, which could
15:36see new developments or more of Kent's green spaces.
15:40So how are they coping?
15:41And is it a similar story across the county?
15:44Now, Stuart, you are one of Kent's newest council leaders.
15:48You took over Maidstone in, I think, the end of May.
15:53I wanted to ask, how's it all going?
15:55How are you finding it?
15:57So first off, let me just say we're in a coalition with our Lib Dem partners.
16:01We're working very, very well with them.
16:04We've agreed a really strong and quite radical programme of stuff that we're going to do
16:10over the next four years.
16:12So at the moment it's going quite well.
16:16We've agreed funding for things like solar roofs on car parks, making sure we're decarbonising
16:23our premises as we need to, and looking at things like nature-based solutions for flooding
16:31and to bring back nature, because we are very fixated on the fact that it's people
16:36and the planet that is suffering.
16:39So we have to make sure that all our policies are very much focused on improving that.
16:43Because I wanted to ask a little bit about that, because obviously, are you struggling
16:46being a Green Council leader and reconciling that with a new government planning framework,
16:51especially given how it requires more building on Greenbelt and obviously with so many greenfield
16:56sites in the Maidstone borough?
16:59Are you struggling to reconcile your politics with that of the Labour government?
17:04We are quite concerned about the mood music coming out of government.
17:09They do seem to want to be ramping up housing in the south-east.
17:14We've got a new local plan.
17:16We didn't vote for it, but we've inherited it.
17:19We've started work on a new one.
17:21We do absolutely recognise the need for affordable housing, social housing and so forth that
17:26we are really pushing forward on.
17:29The real need for housing is for those young families, those in need and so forth.
17:34So that's where our focus is going to be.
17:37But ultimately, we are going to need more housing and we have two choices.
17:41We can either go out across the greenfield sites or we can go up and increase densities.
17:48So they are our only two choices if we want more housing.
17:52We do accept that we need more housing.
17:54So we want to go up.
17:56So the pressure you're on, will that mean there'll be no building on greenfield sites
18:00under your coalition administration?
18:03Will we see any greenfield sites being built on for houses, given there's only a 10% increase
18:08in the number of houses that Maidstone has to build?
18:11Yes, you will see houses being built on greenfield sites.
18:14As I said, we've inherited a local plan.
18:17We cannot stop that local plan.
18:19We can't refuse it.
18:22It's in train.
18:23It's a train we cannot stop.
18:25We are working on a new local plan that will have a much better balance, we believe.
18:30But as it stands, it takes five years to write one of those.
18:33So we are going to have to press ahead with the plan that the Conservatives passed two
18:38days before the election, which was very frustrating.
18:41Well, over to you, Clare, because obviously, as a Conservative and as an advisor to a parliamentarian
18:47and also as a former advisor to the government, you're probably familiar firsthand with the
18:51struggles facing housing in the country.
18:54And I was wondering, do you think that the Conservatives did enough when they're in government
18:59to build this infrastructure, to support housing and to build enough housing at the moment?
19:07It's a really tricky one, because you ask anybody, do you want some houses in your area?
19:12And the first answer they give you is no, absolutely not.
19:15Thank you very much.
19:16And we all need to take our fair share of housing and building.
19:21And I think that's the one thing that we agree on here, is that houses are needed, but they
19:26have to be in the right places.
19:28They have to be affordable.
19:31They have to also have the infrastructure around it.
19:33And I think that is always one of the biggest failings, is that developers will say, yes,
19:38that's fine, we can build out 1,500 houses.
19:41But where is the electricity, the water?
19:45Where are the cycle routes?
19:46Where are car parking spaces?
19:48Is it near a station?
19:49Are the doctor surgeries going to be big enough, schools and all of the rest of it?
19:53And that's the most frustrating thing for residents, is that they see enormous estates
19:57going up, but nothing else is put into the local area.
20:00So I think that needs to change.
20:02But having said that, I don't think anybody wants a beautiful county to be concreted over.
20:07And I think that the Labour government are going to push house building in the south-east
20:11much more than they're going to push it, for example, in the north-west.
20:15So obviously, with infrastructure being a big issue for both where you are from, Maidstone,
20:20and for Sevenoaks, where you're based, what's the solution here?
20:24Where should the money come for infrastructure?
20:27Can we even build that infrastructure in a lot of these areas?
20:29What do you make of all of it?
20:31I mean, I think the system is broken, frankly.
20:35You mentioned infrastructure.
20:36What infrastructure?
20:37It just does not appear.
20:40There are clearly things that we can do.
20:43For example, we can make sure, where it's a council-led scheme and a council-funded
20:50scheme, we can make sure we've got a doctor's surgery included, for example, because we're
20:55in control of that.
20:56But beyond that, it becomes really difficult.
20:58And frankly, the national policies that support the developments are simply not fit for purpose.
21:06The national planning framework does not insist that we have those railway stations,
21:12those cycle paths, those bus routes, those doctor surgeries in place before the houses
21:16go up.
21:17So it has to be done.
21:20That policy does need to change, and the money needs to come down from central government
21:24to get it going, because the developers certainly don't seem to want to do it.
21:28And I think also you need to put the onus on the developers and say, okay, right, look
21:32at the way planning permissions are granted, look at the conditions imposed around them,
21:37because I think we don't force that enough.
21:39And there has been an acceptance that any affordable housing given by a developer is
21:45going to be put somewhere else, because they don't want to do it, because it's going to
21:48hit their bottom line.
21:49And I think that that needs to change.
21:51And the onus needs to be on putting those infrastructure places in first, before they
21:55even start building a house.
21:57And then you've got the issue of things like land banking.
21:59So there are many, many different things that need to change.
22:02And it's the one that's the most frustrating, having sat on a local authority, is the fact
22:07that developers will start something, leave it alone, because it's not going to bring
22:11them in the money 20 years later still.
22:13And I really think we need to look at the role of the developers, I fully agree.
22:17They make huge amounts of money.
22:19They fund political parties, they fund your party, they fund the Labour Party, and therefore
22:23they get their way on policy.
22:26They make a massive amount of money, the money that should be going into the infrastructure
22:30to support their housing.
22:31That's what we need to tackle.
22:33And obviously, that needs to be done at a governmental level.
22:35A rare moment of agreement here on the Kent Politics Show.
22:38But just before we go, with a new era in national politics, across the pond is a Taylor Swift
22:44love story for the Democratic candidate, Kamala Harris, as she received the pop star's endorsement
22:50earlier this week.
22:51And while there may be some bad blood with former President Donald Trump about the decision,
22:55I can't shake it off that we don't see that the same culture of celebrity endorsements
22:59here in Kent and the UK.
23:01So after a cruel summer for the Conservatives, I'm going to ask quickly, what do you make
23:07of all the celebrity endorsements across the pond?
23:09Do you think it's something that we need to see more of in our UK political system?
23:13No, absolutely not.
23:14I think it's one of... if anybody is going to change their mind because a pop star or
23:18a celebrity is saying, I vote for this person, then they're not looking at politics in the
23:22right way.
23:23And no, we don't need to import that from over the pond.
23:26So after this show, I'm going to go and tweet Taylor Swift.
23:29See if she'll endorse me because, you know, what have I got to lose?
23:32Because there is a serious point to be made here because obviously it does engage younger
23:36voters.
23:37I mean, you can ask people to come out and vote.
23:40And obviously there are demographics that don't tend to go out and vote, particularly
23:43like some younger women.
23:45Do you think that this can help deal with those gaps?
23:48Can I come back to that?
23:49I mean, on a serious note, I think getting everybody more involved in politics is absolutely
23:55essential.
23:56And I recall when I was in the NHS, one of the celebrities got diagnosed with a cancer
24:06and that prompted quite an increase in younger people coming forward with screening.
24:11So I do think it does have a role to play.
24:15The sort of Taylor Swift, Kamala Harris thing, I mean, it is a bit sickly.
24:19But I certainly think that our celebrities and our younger people can be used to engage
24:25better with younger people in some circumstances.
24:29Yeah, there's nothing wrong with getting younger people involved in politics.
24:31But I do sort of urge a little bit of caution that their street cred probably goes down
24:35if they, especially in the United Kingdom, if they start putting themselves with a political
24:39party, I think it tends to damage them more than the politician.
24:43Because obviously the average age of a councillor, according to the Local Government
24:47Association, is around 60 years old as of 2022.
24:52And obviously parliamentarians, well, we've got some new younger ones and there is still
24:56that idea that Parliament is this kind of old, musty, stale place in the centre of London.
25:01And I'm kind of wondering, do you think there is kind of a blank space here for more
25:05engagement on these issues, that there could be new ways to bring people into politics,
25:11especially because there is this kind of age gap sometimes between the electorate and
25:16those that represent them?
25:18Yeah, I mean, local councils are designed to appeal to people that are working part
25:23time that have retired.
25:25And that's why we end up with lots of people who are retired and working part time.
25:29The money is pretty poor and the hours are long.
25:34So if you're on Kent County Council, for example, all your meetings are during the day.
25:38You can't do that if you're trying to work a 40 hour week to pay the mortgage.
25:42So I think we've got a real fundamental problem with the way we've designed the system.
25:46And until that changes, it's going to be really difficult to get younger people involved in
25:50politics, really difficult.
25:52But some do and absolutely hats off to them.
25:55Yeah, absolutely.
25:56And I think that more people need to come forward.
25:58It needs to be more accessible also to women, those with caring responsibilities and those
26:03with disabilities. They automatically assume that they cannot do it.
26:07Now, in Westminster, for example, for a disabled person, it's an incredibly difficult
26:12building to get around.
26:13And we need to change that and we should have changed that a long time ago.
26:16So I think that the pressure is on for politicians to to make it a career.
26:20And I think you're right that.
26:21Can you stop agreeing with me?
26:22I know I'm really sorry.
26:24I wish I could disagree.
26:25But this was the most it's it's such a it's so disappointing to see young people being
26:31turned away from politics because they either think it's full of old musty, stale men or
26:37Westminster is something for the elite when it shouldn't be.
26:40And on that note, I think we're going to have to leave it there.
26:42Thank you so much for joining me.
26:44We'll be back next week with another episode of the Kent Politics Show.
26:47Stick around for Kent tonight.
26:48Have a lovely evening.
27:14.
27:44.
28:14.