Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe joined by Labour's deputy leader of Medway Council Theresa Murray and the Conservative councillor Andrew Lawrence.
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00:00Welcome to the Kent Politics Show, live on KMTV, the only show on your TV that gets Kent's
00:29politicians talking. I'm Oliver Leader-The-Sax, and while we may be all coming off a mammoth
00:34election night for Kent last week, the wheels of local government keep on turning regardless,
00:40and nowhere is that more true than here in Medway. While all eyes may have been on Westminster
00:46this week, the Labour Cabinet for the Council discussed the future of housing in Medway
00:51ahead of their consultation launch, and what may community safety look like in the streets
00:56of the five towns. Joining us to make sense of it all was the Labour Deputy Leader of
01:00Medway Council, Theresa Murray, and the Conservative group's spokesperson for regeneration, community
01:06and housing, Andrew Lawrence. But, of course, we have to talk about it. Today, a week ago,
01:13Kent woke up to a very different political landscape, with 12 new MPs and Labour taking
01:19a significant foothold across the county, winning historically Conservative seats at
01:23Ashford and slashing the Tory vote share in others. Our local democracy reporter, Gable
01:28Morris, has broken down one of the biggest nights in Kent's electoral history. In what
01:34was a long night at counting, the parliamentary make-up of Kent has significantly changed.
01:40Labour has been enjoying huge successes, while Conservatives are slumping across the county.
01:45There are now 12 new MPs in Medway, all three seats turning red. There's no magic wands
01:52here. There's a lot of work to get on with, from improving our NHS, to delivering great
01:57British energy, to improving our economy. So we have a really full agenda, and I'm really
02:01looking forward to cracking on with that and delivering for residents in Chatham and Elston,
02:04but also the country. On the other side of the county, Tony Fawn took the win for Labour.
02:10Yeah, well, it's all been a bit of a whirlwind, really. I mean, as I said to someone else,
02:14I was selected on the 24th of May, and it's just been a whirlwind since then. But we've
02:18an amazing team. There's a fantastic group of people who've spent their life, frankly,
02:23working for Labour, and to have that group of people behind me to make this, it's been
02:27a pure team effort. And Kent County Council's Labour leader ousted Adam Holloway in Gravesham.
02:34This needs to have my full focus, but I've got a fantastic team at Gravesham Council
02:38and at Kent County Council as well. Kent County Council elections are next year, so we're
02:43always looking for new candidates, so please come on by. Sorry, a little plug there. But
02:48no, I think it's going to be really, really fun and really exciting.
02:55And history has made of Tunbridge Wells, with Mike Martin claiming the Liberal Democrats'
02:59first ever fixture in Kent, with a nearly 9,000 majority.
03:04We are standing in the aftermath of a political earthquake. Tunbridge Wells has had a Conservative
03:14member of Parliament for 114 years.
03:20And some Conservatives have maintained their seats in traditional Tory strongholds, but
03:24their majorities slashed.
03:26One of the big issues that came up from people who chose to vote Reform rather than Conservative
03:30was clearly immigration. That was something significant at the election, and people told
03:34me they basically wanted to vote for Farage. I don't think that Reform has the right answer.
03:39I don't think they have a plan. But there was a protest vote that went on as part of
03:43this election.
03:44These sort of seats in Kent are the last sort of seats that will flip the switch. You've
03:49got to remember, even in the Blair years, you know, the Tories were still winning here
03:52in Kent. So of course it's hard, but I think what we're going to see in Fabersham and Kent,
03:57in Mason and Morling, I think we're going to see these Conservative majorities get absolutely
04:02eaten up, and I think these Tories are going to be very worried about that.
04:05And this general election has seen constituency changes, including the brand new seat for
04:10the willed of Kent, where the Conservatives had a clear majority.
04:14I think it's a very exciting change, this boundary change, to have a new seat in Kent
04:19that is entirely countryside, you know, a properly rural seat without a big town, where
04:25its member of parliament can be a proper champion for the rural way of life.
04:28It's been a night of change, and it's now the dawn of a new government. Kent's new MPs
04:33will have the hard task of dealing with key issues such as housing, roads, the economy
04:39and health care.
04:40Gabriel Morris in Kent.
04:46So obviously some big wins across the county, as you can see on this map right here, and
04:51I'm still joined by Theresa Murray, the Deputy Leader of Medway Council, and the Conservative
04:56Housing Spokesperson for the Conservatives, Andrew Lawrence.
04:58I want to go to you first, Theresa, because obviously Medway saw three new Labour MPs
05:04taking their place in Westminster this week, and I was wondering, as a Deputy Leader of
05:09a local authority like Medway, what do you think this will mean for our communities here
05:13in the five towns?
05:14Well, first of all, I'm delighted for my friends and former Medway Cabinet colleagues, Ms Sharper,
05:20Tristan and Lauren. Great to see them in parliament, and I'm looking forward to being a Labour
05:25council working with a Labour government. That should make things much easier, and they're
05:30all great local champions, so I'll be looking forward to sharing ideas with them, getting
05:35a line into government when we need one, and really working to get going in the Medway
05:40towns.
05:41Andrew, I wanted to ask you, obviously all three seats went to Conservatives, Raymond
05:47Chistie and Kelly Tolhurst, losing seats they've held for more than a decade. As a local Conservative
05:53voice, what do you think went wrong for your party over the last six weeks and over the
05:58last couple of years to lead to the result on election night?
06:00Olly, I mean, there's no sugarcoating the election result. Labour took the three seats.
06:06I think we do have to reflect on the size of the reform vote. I think reform picks up
06:1030,000 votes across the three constituencies, and also we have to reflect the fact that
06:15votes, the number of people who came out to vote was down quite considerably as well.
06:20So what went wrong? I don't think it went wrong over the last six weeks. I think it's
06:23been going wrong since the end of COVID, to be fair, and I don't think there's any
06:28escaping the image of Her Majesty the Queen standing alone at her husband's funeral while
06:35Conservative staffers were enjoying themselves in 10 Downing Street. For me, that's where
06:40it probably started.
06:42But we're not out. We might be down for the moment. We will come back. I think it positions
06:47Conservative councillors across the region in a high-profile position, and we will fight
06:52hard to win back the seats at the next general election.
06:55I think it's interesting about vote share overall, because obviously there was slightly
07:00lower turnout. I was wondering what both of you think caused this. Is there a disillusionment
07:04in politics in Kent, in Medway, across the country?
07:08I always want people to participate in democracy, and when I'm knocking on the door, I always
07:13remind people if they say they're not going to vote, and some people do say that, that
07:17there are many places in the world who haven't got democracy. So I'll continue to encourage
07:22people, and for me, a win's a win. So we were very happy with that.
07:27Yeah, a win's a win when you've got the lowest share of the national vote for a very, very
07:31long time. I just want to repeat a famous headline from The Sun. It was Nigel that won
07:36it, Teresa. Nigel Farage won the election for Medway Labour in the Medway towns. Without
07:42the reform vote, Labour would have lost.
07:45I don't agree with that in any way at all.
07:47We do have to reflect that the vote share was down, and my gut feeling is a big part
07:53of that vote share down was disaffected Conservatives who weren't going to come out and vote this
07:58time. So there's a huge lesson to the party here that we need to listen to our core vote,
08:04don't ignore them, and respond to what they want from a Conservative government.
08:09I think it's interesting that you mentioned vote share, because obviously, even though
08:13there were three Labour wins, they did all win by less than 5,000 votes, and obviously
08:18the Reform Party did get more than 20% in every single seat. Do you think that support
08:25for Labour might be broad across the country, but relatively shallow? Let's go to you, Teresa.
08:30No, I don't think it's shallow. I think it was a positive vote for Labour. We had a good
08:34manifesto, we've got a good leader, and we were meeting 2,000 people a week. So I spoke
08:41to disaffected Tories, I spoke to Tories who were going to vote, I spoke to Tories
08:45who wouldn't vote, and I spoke to a whole lot of people who had voted for something
08:49else and decided to vote for Labour, and we had big majorities to overturn, and I think
08:54that showed the significance of working hard and meeting people. I'm not complacent, I
08:59don't take anything for granted, but if Andrew was sitting where I'm sitting now, he'd be
09:04celebrating too, you know, it's a good win for a good government after 14 years of misery
09:09and chaos. Teresa, let's be honest here, the reform vote was nearly double the majority
09:15that Labour have got. Nationally, Jeremy Corbyn polled more votes than Keir Starmer. The Labour
09:22party have got Mr Boring as Prime Minister, he played it super safe, there was hardly
09:26any detail about how they're going to deliver their policies, a bit like Medway Labour's
09:31local election campaign. Let's keep it simple, we don't want to confuse anyone with details.
09:38It's a very successful formula. I just wanted to ask quickly before the break, obviously,
09:43because there have been three councillors who have been elected as MPs, we've got three
09:48new councillors. I know you've been critical online about some of the inexperience that
09:55may be on the table, but on the other hand, these are also councillors who have been there
09:59for a while. I was wondering, what do you guys think of this? Do you think Medway council
10:03is primed for the future going forward now? Absolutely, we've had 13 fantastic new councillors,
10:08candidates at the election last May. Three of those people, two new councillors have
10:14joined us on the Cabinet, bringing their skills and experience and the things they've done
10:18in their first year of councillors. We've got Alex Paterson for regeneration, an experienced
10:23councillor himself. We will always be looking for succession, always looking for new candidates.
10:29That's the right thing to do, but I'm happy with the skills and talent that we've got
10:33in place and I'll enjoy working with those people too. Yeah, I mean, I think the proof
10:38of that is in the eating, isn't it? So, we'll see how the new Cabinet members get on and
10:42when they stand before ONS committees and have to answer for their portfolios, that
10:47will be the real test. We've seen some pretty poor performances from portfolio holders,
10:52in a lot of people's views, Theresa, some poor performances from Labour Cabinet. It's
10:56a lightweight Cabinet and they've got a lot of hard work to do in order to deliver their
11:01six key promises with no detail. We only made five key promises actually and that's a load
11:07of rubbish. Obviously, there are concerns as well about experience within the Conservative
11:12ranks as well. What would you say to concerns about someone like George Perfect, who's the
11:16new leader of the Conservative group? George is absolutely a new page for midway Conservatives.
11:23He's matured way beyond his years and I think that is absolutely the right thing. And also,
11:31I do think we need to appeal, you know, Conservatives need to work hard to appeal to a younger demographic.
11:36So George was unopposed, elected as our group leader. I think he's been off to a great start,
11:41despite some pretty awful sledging. Well, I'm going to have to cut you off there because
11:44we're about to go to a break. But coming up, we'll be talking a lot more about the local
11:48plan that's been dominating debate in Medway. Stick with us for more news against Kent's
11:53politicians talking.
12:06I can imagine you're both so busy at the moment.
12:20Oh my God. I remember it was this time last week, we were just coming off, obviously we
12:30were broadcasting as well tonight. So like it was essentially from Thursday to Friday
12:35last week.
13:05Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
13:33yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
14:01yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
14:29yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
14:57yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:09Welcome back to the Kent Politics show, live on KN TV. The only show on your TV that gets
15:14Kent's politicians talking. Still joining me is the Labour Deputy Leader of Medway Council,
15:19Theresa Murray, and the Conservative Group spokesman for a Generation Commuting & Housing,
15:24Andrew Lawrence.
15:25Now, almost 30,000 homes will be built in Medway over the next decade, and half of it
15:30and a half of the proposals for a decade and a half, if proposed for Medway Council, are
15:35adopted. The next stage of the Council's local plan consultation is set to open next week
15:41and it could see 50% of development being built on greenfield land to meet targets.
15:47But the Conservative group are worried about whether infrastructure can cope with such
15:51a population rise, while Medway Council are keen for people to voice their views. Our
15:57local democracy reporter Gabriel Morris has more.
16:00Medway has a growing population. The average house price here, nearly nine times higher
16:06than the average wage. And it's said that number won't improve without new properties.
16:12Well proposals from the Council could see more than 28,000 by 2041. But Opposition Councillors
16:19are worried that infrastructure just isn't here.
16:22It's a struggle to get any service, to be fair. Access to GPs is a big problem. The
16:28Medway Hospital is still not providing a good enough service to residents. You go up to
16:33Medway Hospital, getting parked up there, accessing the hospital is a real problem.
16:39And you know, but it's also things like primary schools. So where are these children going
16:44to school?
16:45Government members admit that infrastructure currently isn't up to scratch to meet future
16:49demand. And they say they'll be reliant on external funding to meet this.
16:54That needs to be coming from the developers, from government and from an improving economy.
16:59Those are the elements that bring forward the money to spend on infrastructure. And
17:03we're working on all three of those aspects. As a local authority, we set the rules on
17:07where development takes place. We have the planning authority powers, if you like. But
17:11it's working with developers, it's working with the other sectors of the community like
17:15the NHS, with the education authorities and all those. But we're working with the transport
17:19authorities as well.
17:21These proposals are part of Medway's local plan. At the last cabinet meeting, it was
17:24agreed to move into the next consultation phase. Authorities use these plans as a blueprint
17:30for future development.
17:31I wish some of the sites in Capstone, which have already got permission, weren't there.
17:39And why have they got permission? Because we didn't have an up-to-date local plan. Because
17:44I think it's about looking at Medway as a whole. And not Medway as a whole today, Medway
17:49as a whole in five and ten and fifteen years' time.
17:53The council are keen for locals to comment on their proposals, with a particular interest
17:57to hear from younger generations, who the authorities say are the future of the area.
18:03Gabriel Morris in Medway.
18:06While still joining me is Deputy Leader of Medway, Councillor Theresa Murray, and Andrew
18:11Lawrence, the housing spokesperson for the Conservative group.
18:13Now, Theresa, let's go to you, because obviously, this is big news for the five towns. Lots
18:19of proposals on the line. And there are three options being put forward. Urban regeneration
18:25focus, focusing on brownfield sites in urban areas, a dispersed growth model with less
18:29delivery through regeneration, and a blended strategy.
18:33In the council papers, the council say the preference is that third option, that blended
18:37option that brings both together. I want to ask, why is it that third option that is
18:42the priority for Medway Council?
18:43Well, it makes sense. It's a brownfield first option. And it makes it much fairer than the
18:50other two options, in terms of where, not just new homes, but where everything will
18:55be. Don't forget, the local plan is about, it's about our health and wellbeing, it's
19:00about jobs, it's about education, it's about all of the things that we want the towns to
19:06be. It's about open spaces, it's about transport, it's about making sure that we don't put anything
19:11on floodplains. And sitting underneath it, other plans, like the flooding strategy, like
19:16the transport strategy, like our design code, so that when we start working with developers,
19:22we send a message about the sort of housing, the sort of buildings, the kind of transport
19:28that we want to see here.
19:30Next week, we'll be having a big meeting with major developers. We've had a tremendous response
19:34from them. And that's our opportunity to lay out what we want to happen. It has not been
19:39possible to do that in Medway, because the last local plan is over 20 years old. It's
19:45dated 2003. We needed a new one long ago. And that, as you heard the leader of the council
19:51say in that clip, makes us pray to predatory developers who can come along. There isn't
19:57a local plan in place. They simply go to judicial review and say, we can do whatever we want
20:02because there's no local plan in place. We've got to stop that happening. And we've got
20:05to be really clear about the sort of development we want, that we need more affordable development
20:10in your clip. It spoke about how house prices are fast outpacing salaries. And we've got
20:17to work with the government to get the economic growth that will make all of these things
20:21happen.
20:22Andrew, obviously, the council is going to have to make a decision on a proposal for
20:26housing going forward. What is your preferred model? What is the Conservative group's preferred
20:32or all the options on the table just not up to snuff?
20:35OK, Olly, number one, the report to Cabinet only came out this week. So the group has
20:39not yet sat down and looked at that report in detail. I don't disagree with anything
20:44actually, Theresa says, to be fair. I think Brownfield is definitely the right place to
20:48start with. I do have some concerns about whether you can trust Medway Labour, because
20:53as on Chatham Docks, Vince Maple's talking about Capstone. And it wasn't that long ago
20:59that the Labour group were campaigning hard not to build on Capstone. And yet in the proposals
21:06are proposals for 3,500 houses on Capstone Valley, together with the terrible development
21:12proposal for Lidsing Village, which is another 2,000. And the reason why the developers not
21:17being allowed to build on Capstone is because the council owns the ransom strip that prevents
21:21them having access. So I totally accept, actually, we do need a local plan. But I do think we
21:28need to think hard and listen very carefully to what Medway Labour have got, because this
21:32will be their local plan. Just one other point. We've already had a Regulation 18 under this
21:37administration. But for whatever reason, we're having to do the Regulation 18 again. So we've
21:42lost eight months. We're facing legislative change in terms of how local plans are constructed.
21:48And I'm really worried that we're not going to get through this local plan before the
21:52next local elections. Now, that might be a good thing. But I think Labour need to pick
21:57up the pace. They established a working plan.
21:59Theresa, what do you make of that? Because obviously, there's a lot to dig into there.
22:03We had about 400 responses to the first part of the consultation, which is not very many
22:09in the scheme of things. We've extended it now to eight weeks. There'll be 10 public
22:13sessions. Everybody can go online and look at the maps. We've improved the way that the
22:18maps look. And we've given the additional detail that people asked for in the first
22:23part of the consultation. So it's not, you know, that these are two halves of the same
22:28whole. And it's important that we listen to people. Now, we've got a deadline. We want
22:34to have the local plan ready in 2025. We want to put it for inspection, which is a lengthy
22:42process. And we want to have it adopted by 2026. If that can happen earlier, that will
22:48be a really good thing. So we'll be keeping an eye on the pace of development and the
22:52way things are going, and working with our planning team to make sure that we're going
22:56as fast as we can. But I don't want to go so fast that everybody who can have a say,
23:02and that means everybody in Medway, so I hope everybody watching will come along to a consultation
23:07session, have a look online, can put their submissions in.
23:10A lot of people are saying there are concerns around infrastructure. Can Medway cope with
23:16this new housing? I know that you said in the piece that you have your reservations
23:19about it.
23:20I mean, what's really clear, Ollie, and this is where going to be, you know, the opportunities
23:24called Labour's bluff here. Theresa quite rightly, under the last government, was going
23:29on about if you want development, we need infrastructure. Now, there's not a single
23:32line that I can find in Labour's manifesto that rescues Medway's Labour's budget or talks
23:37about infrastructure investment in, you know, to facilitate house building. And also, I
23:41think we also need to bear in mind that Labour are going to start imposing targets on local
23:47authorities, which the last Conservative government took away. Last year's target,
23:50we only built half of what we needed to build in our own target. So, there are a lot of
23:55moving pieces here. You know, this is not a part to Regulation 8. We're redoing the
24:01Regulation 8. So, let's not gaslight residents. So, before we can go on to the Regulation
24:0619. So, you know, my fear is, I think I should say, the Conservative group will play a positive
24:13role in getting the local plan through. It's very important that we get a local plan.
24:20Obviously, there's infrastructure concerns being put to you there.
24:23The infrastructure concerns are real. I haven't ever denied them. And we will do everything
24:28to make sure that that infrastructure is in place. So, when developers, and they'll be
24:32hearing this next week, you know, we will be saying that they will have to build the
24:36schools and the health facilities that are needed. And in the meantime, we're getting
24:40on with the job. I was just in the Pentagon Centre in Chatham yesterday, welcoming the
24:45fact that work on the new health centre there is going to start. So, there's step one. More
24:51GPs, more. It's taken a long time, but we've actually managed to bring it forward and get
24:56the partners in place, get the ducks in a row. These things do take too long. I quite
25:01agree with that. And we've got to pick up the pace, and so will the government. But
25:05we've got to do that in a way that brings people along with us. I want people to feel
25:09they can take part in the Regulation 18 consultation. I want them to feel that they are listened
25:15to. I'll be going along to as many consultations as I can and encouraging people, not just,
25:20you know, members of the public, but organisations as well. If the health service have got a
25:23point of view about it, we want to hear it. If companies have got a point of view about
25:28it, we want to hear what they've got to say. And we'll be saying that loud and clear. We've
25:32already got a design code for Chatham that shows people what we expect them to build.
25:37And if they come along and say they're not going to do that, then they won't be working
25:41with us. We're going to play ball with people who want to line up with the kind of standards
25:45and the type of accommodation and the type of buildings and the sorts of green spaces
25:50and public facilities and infrastructure that we want.
25:53The thing is, the infrastructure that costs the money is the roads, improving the roads.
25:58And you know, we've not heard anything at all about that part of it. I think that was
26:02the big contentious issue on who, that the amount of roads needed to make that, those
26:07developments accessible and acceptable. The money just wasn't there.
26:11Unfortunately, £170 million was taken away by the last government. So that would have
26:16put us along the road. But you know, all that being said, we'll be working with the new
26:20housing minister. We're working with the new Secretary of State. We'll be showing them
26:24what we want to happen in Medway and hoping for their support.
26:27I think we'll leave it there. Obviously, we'll be digging into this in the coming weeks and
26:31months. Thank you so much for coming on the show. But obviously, that is all from us on
26:38The Ken Politics Show. We'll be back next week with more Ken politicians talking about
26:42the news that matters to you. We have Ken tonight coming up after the break. So stick
26:46around. And from me, have a lovely evening. Good night.