Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Sofia Akin joined by Medway Council Leader, Cllr Vince Maple and Medway's Conservative leader, Cllr George Perfect.
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00:00Good evening and welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm Sophia Aitken and coming
00:29up on tonight's show. Today, Rishi Sunak's been criticised for leaving a D-Day event
00:34in France early. He's apologised, calling it a mistake, but he's received criticism
00:39from other party leaders, with the Prime Minister saying D-Day shouldn't be politicised. Meanwhile,
00:44the Prime Minister's accused Starmer of politicising D-Day. We'll be discussing both leaders'
00:49campaigns after this week's first TV leaders' debate as well. But of course, despite the
00:54campaign for the general election being on, we can't forget the local issues as well.
00:58On tonight's show, we're joined by the leader of Medway Council and opposition leader to
01:02discuss the controversial decision to redevelop Chatham Docks being approved and the fact
01:08the authorities had to pay almost £60,000 in recycling costs due to waste being sorted
01:13in correctly. Well, the pair join me now, Vince Maple and George Perfect. Thank you
01:18very much for joining us. So, I wanted to start off the show by talking about D-Day.
01:22It's been all in the news this week and today it's been in the news for, as I said there,
01:27British Cynic leaving the D-Day event early for an interview that had been pre-arranged.
01:32We've seen the Veterans Minister, Johnny Mercer, said he understands why people are outraged
01:37and calling it a mistake. Would you agree, George? Yeah, well, I totally agree with what
01:41the Veterans Minister said this afternoon and I think the Prime Minister got this wrong.
01:46But I think we've seen the character of the Prime Minister actually today, this morning,
01:51first straight out with a tweet saying he apologised and acknowledging actually the
01:56fact that actually the offensive way that this could be perceived but also the fact
02:03that actually the optics internationally aren't good either with the Foreign Secretary being
02:07sent instead of him. As I say, he's admitted it's a mistake and apologised, which I think
02:12shows the strength of the Prime Minister's character. But obviously, it's very regrettable
02:16that that happened. And Vince, as George said, Cynic has apologised and he's highlighted
02:23the importance of taking the politics out of days like D-Day. Shouldn't we just be remembering
02:28the history of D-Day rather than all the politics coming into it? We've seen other leaders criticising
02:33Cynic but should it be about that? Well, I think you can separate the two. So, I think
02:37here in Medway yesterday we had a great set of events at the Chatham Dockyard at Rochester
02:42Cathedral, a number of parish councils lit beacons and there were people from all political
02:47parties and none and there was no talk of politics. We were all there collectively to
02:54reflect, remember and re-pledge ourselves to making sure 80 years on those things never
02:59happen again. The issue here, of course, is not politicising the events at Portsmouth
03:05or over in the various places in France. This is about a decision by Rishi Sunak, a very
03:11simple decision, to leave early. Tim Montgomery, who again, someone I don't always agree with
03:19on BBC last night, was very clear. If he was going for a private family matter or an emergency,
03:25we'd all accept that. Things happen in life. This was very specifically a timing offered
03:31by his office, not the other way round, to go and have an interview effectively to clear
03:36up the mess from a couple of days ago. So, look, no-one's wanting to politicise D-Day.
03:43People are politicising the poor judgement from the Prime Minister and I do recognise
03:49his apologise, frankly, because he had to. Because I saw a number of Conservative councillors
03:55and others on Twitter, you know, not myself, you know, I criticise the Prime Minister on
04:00a regular basis and I think he makes poor choices. Actually, there were people from
04:04his own party last night who were pretty angry and I think that's why we've seen such
04:09a reaction. Not necessarily for him feeling sorry, I'm sure he probably does, but to try
04:15and manage his own team who are probably fuming, you know. Lots of people from across the political
04:21spectrum would have taken yesterday as such an important day for our community, particularly
04:26here in Medway, for example, with our long history of armed forces. Rishi Sunak got this
04:31one dreadfully, dreadfully wrong. Well, you mentioned the events that have been happening
04:37across Medway and there was the D-Day event on the Chatham Dockyard yesterday, so we actually
04:41have a clip, if we can hear of that, of the two parliamentary candidates for Labour and
04:46Conservatives in that area. We can take a look. I always love being out and about in
04:50my constituency and it's been really great to be speaking to lots of people, the weather's
04:57been great and, you know, it's, yeah, I like campaigning, it's nicer to be in the constituency
05:04than in London. Now that we're a few weeks away from the general election, how's it all
05:08going, how are you feeling going into it? It's pretty intensive, I've never done it
05:12before but I'm really enjoying it. I'm out on the doorsteps every day talking to people,
05:17really positive reception for Labour and I'm just working really, really hard, right up
05:21to 10pm on the 4th of July and just really hoping that we can get a Labour government.
05:26Well, we can see the full list of candidates up on the website but some might argue that
05:30the local parliamentary candidates are using D-Day as a chance to, I guess, make some campaign
05:36points as we saw there. What would you say to that, George?
05:39Well, I don't think so. I think, look, Kelly's out in the constituency, she has been every
05:44day since she was elected back in 2015, talking with residents, listening to their concerns.
05:49She was at the events yesterday, I know she was, as you can see there, at the event down
05:53at Chatham Maritime but she was also at an event both in Hoo and also in Rochester Cathedral
06:00so really out in the community but it wasn't just Kelly there, we had the wider Conservative
06:04team, Conservative councillors and others and also those actually that are not politicians
06:09actually from right across, whether it be from the Chatham Historic Dockyard, Chief
06:13Executive there or indeed Peter Gilbert, one of our Deputy Lieutenants. So, I think there
06:17was a broad range of people there and I think it's really positive actually that we see
06:20on a cross-party basis people attending these events because, as I've said previously, they're
06:24very important to our community here in Medway which has got a strong connection with the
06:29Navy and other parts of the military.
06:32We've also seen the first leaders' debate this week on Tuesday between Rashid Sunak
06:37and Keir Starmer. We've got another one this evening on BBC. So, I just wanted to talk
06:42about some of those points that were raised between both the party leaders. First of all,
06:48the Prime Minister had repeatedly said that Labour would be putting taxes up, it would
06:53cost people an extra £2,000 and it's since been proven incorrect. Vince, how do you feel
06:58about that, hearing Rashid Sunak saying that, knowing that it's now incorrect?
07:04Well, I think we saw the reaction the following day when the letter from the Chief Civil Servant
07:10was out and published. I just want to quickly pick up on Georgie's point from the last conversation
07:14because that's really important. I didn't see from any politician politicking yesterday.
07:21People were treating that day with respect. Actually, that's always been the case in Medway.
07:26Chatham, for example, we don't have branded poppy wreaths on November 11th, for example.
07:32So, look, we take that seriously and I wouldn't want the scenes from France to be considered
07:36to what was happening here in Medway. On the debate, I mean, I think the Twittersphere,
07:43Facebook was very clear calling Rashid Sunak a liar. Again, people who perhaps aren't necessarily
07:48political. I have to say from a personal perspective, I thought the format wasn't great and it's
07:53not for me as a politician to criticise the media, but asking either Keir Starmer or indeed
07:59Rashid Sunak, how are you going to save the NHS in 45 seconds, that is a bit tricky. And
08:06actually formats like this, again, you've got the two leading politicians for the local
08:10government in Medway. We're having a decent debate, we'll disagree on stuff and that's
08:15fine, but trying to get us to sum up everything in just a few seconds. And Judy Axnew is a
08:20great journalist and great broadcaster. The format didn't work. I think tonight, although
08:24we've seven politicians and we've one or two of the individuals there, I think it could
08:29be certainly entertaining television. I'm not sure how much progress we'll make on people
08:33deciding how they're going to vote. Here with me, you get longer than 45 seconds.
08:36Thank you for that. I did want to say about the fact that neither
08:39leader was committing to give junior doctors that 35% pay rise. So for many junior doctors
08:45that would be really disappointing. We knew already that the Conservative government wasn't
08:50going to be giving that, but now Keir Starmer's also said that he will not be giving the 35%
08:54pay rise. So for many, that's going to be disappointing to hear.
08:57Well, I would say that he's taken a view of saying he'll get in the room. I took it that
09:01he personally, along with Web Streeting, if we're lucky enough to serve, would get in
09:04there as part of the negotiations. I think that's been the big criticism of successive
09:09health secretaries actually, is they've said that's not a matter for me. And actually we've
09:13seen this with other industrial disputes as well. I'm a firm believer, if you're in control
09:18of an organisation, you want industrial relations to work well and if they don't, you need senior
09:23intervention probably from both sides of the debate.
09:27And I mean, a survey afterwards from YouGov after this debate actually suggested the leaders
09:32came out from the public's opinion pretty much neck or neck, but actually Rishi Sunak
09:37did slightly better according to this poll. It was 51% to 49%. So it is pretty marginal,
09:44but it seems based on that poll alone, people maybe aren't viewing them as too different.
09:48Well, I think the Prime Minister did a great job on Tuesday night. I think he proved, I've
09:53got to say that the letter that came from the Permanent Secretary of the Treasury didn't
09:59necessarily refute the claim. He was talking specifically about the term civil servants.
10:05The £2,094 that it will cost an average family of Labour getting to power, the Prime
10:10Minister's been absolutely clear about. £38 billion worth of uncosted plans that Labour
10:14plan to bring forward. 12 tax increases that have been already effectively confirmed, including
10:19on private schools, where they plan to introduce value-added tax on that. You know, really
10:24demonstrate this is a Labour government that hasn't got a plan. And I think the challenge
10:27that Keir Starmer had the other evening was consistently on every single point, he had
10:32no plan, whether it be on the junior doctors, whether indeed it be on the small boats,
10:37or indeed whether it be on some of those other matters that we've seen the Prime Minister
10:40tackle around the economy. On the junior doctors point, the Conservatives also said they wouldn't
10:44be giving that pay rise. So on that point, it's about the same. But what would you say?
10:47I mean, no plan. This is the start of the plan, the six first steps. The formal manifesto
10:52will be out shortly, fully costed. And I'm sure there'll be a fully costed manifesto
10:57from the Conservatives. Be interested to see where more than £45 billion of national insurance
11:02cuts will be funded. And ultimately, it'll be for the public to decide. You know, George
11:07and I will probably watch all the other debates and he will say the Conservatives did well.
11:11I will say the Labour team did well. But ultimately, it'll be for the residents of Medway and the
11:15rest of the country on July the 4th to make sure they have their say and make sure when
11:19they go and vote to not forget their photo ID, because actually, that's now something
11:22else which is critical if people are going to be voting.
11:26We don't have long, but did you want to come back on that before our break?
11:28I would just say he hasn't got a clear plan. I think we saw it the other night. There were
11:31clear answers on a lot of those issues. It's great to make big policy statements, but if
11:35you haven't got the detail behind them, it's only the Conservatives at the moment that
11:39have got a clear plan taking that bold action to lead to a secure future.
11:43Have you brought the plan with you in your pocket?
11:46We will have a manifesto launch very soon that will outline those. But we've already
11:49been outlining things. Triple lock plus, whether it be National Service and other
11:52policies, the Prime Minister has already been outlining them nearly every day.
11:55We'll be discussing more straight after the break. See you soon.
14:49Hello and welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. Well, shortly we'll be
15:14discussing some Medway issues with the Leader of Medway Council and the Leader of the Opposition,
15:19but we wanted to pick up that discussion that we were just having before the break about
15:22the campaign and the debate. And I actually wanted to ask you both, as there's this debate
15:28going tonight and more debates to come, what would you want from either your leaders or
15:33the person who will be representing your party, whoever wants to start?
15:37Well, I'm going to go first. I mean, look, the Leader of the House is going to be up
15:41tonight. Fantastic, fantastic, hardworking parliamentary candidate that's going to be
15:46standing, once again, in Portsmouth. I think tonight she's going to be outlining that positive
15:50vision that we've got for the country. I'm particularly interested tonight to hear from
15:53her around some of the stuff on defence that we're very much focused on as a party, as we've
15:58seen in recent months, particularly around the work that's been ongoing from Grant Shapps as
16:03the Secretary of State. So I think tonight I'm really interested to hear about that and what
16:07Labour's plan particularly are, of course, on defence, because up tonight is the Deputy Leader
16:11of the Labour Party, who, of course, could potentially be, if Labour win an election,
16:17the Deputy Prime Minister of this country, and previously said she wanted to scrap Trident. So
16:21looking forward, actually, tonight to hearing from her, and I'm sure Penny will be pressing
16:25her on her views on that, because I think they're really important things for the country to
16:29understand. What are you expecting from Angela Rayner? Well, I think Angela's a great friend
16:34of Medway Labour. Of course, she was here with Keir, both as they launched the national campaign
16:39and on May 3rd last year in Gillingham, the day before Medway went to the polls.
16:45Look, I think there's a couple of things. Firstly, it's around, actually, if there is space,
16:50I think George and I would want to hear what the future for local government would be. And,
16:54you know, provisionally, that would be Angela Rayner's role alongside being Deputy Prime
17:01Minister. I think, look, whatever's happened over the last 14 years, we need some hope for local
17:06government. So that's what I'll be looking for. But in a debate of this nature, even with the
17:10longer time, with seven people on the panel, it's going to, I think it will be a challenge
17:16in a different way to the debate. Basically, KMTV should be running these things, not ITV and BBC.
17:22We have got some general election coverage coming up, so stay tuned for that.
17:26I want you to pick up on, we talked about some of the kind of initial policies that have been
17:30launched. I was with Tracy Coombs, our portfolio holder for education, a longstanding session with
17:37Victory Academy in Chatham for Year 12 enrichment. So we both talked about our kind of journey,
17:42how we got to where we are today. And then we took questions from those brilliant Year 12 students.
17:48And the issue of national service came up, and some people were hearing it for the first time,
17:53they hadn't heard about it. And so I asked the students there, explaining it in a kind of as
17:58neutral a way as possible, I have a view on it, and not one single Year 12 student, who in theory
18:03could be the first cohort of people, if the Conservatives win, it depends how quickly they
18:09bring this forward, they could be the first cohort of people. So I took from that, that although
18:14those individuals don't have a vote in this election, one of the headline policies from the
18:20Conservatives has zero percent on that, not hugely scientific, but there was about 60 young people in
18:25that room. And there wasn't one, quite often, you know, I've been at sessions like that, where you'll
18:30have one or two people go, yeah, I agree with that, and lots don't, and that's fine. But in that case,
18:35not a single one. And that's not surprising to me, because again, actually, we have hundreds
18:42and hundreds of people volunteer for loads of different youth things in Medway, young people
18:46are incredible for volunteering, but they do that because they choose to, not because the state is
18:51telling them, state-sponsored volunteering, or state-sponsored national service. So I have to say,
18:57I think this is a policy which is not finding favour with the people it would directly impact.
19:02George, are you worried it could alienate the next generation of voters?
19:05Well, no, I think that the Prime Minister outlined when he brought forward the policy exactly why he
19:09was looking to do this. And again, it all comes back to that point that I was making earlier about
19:13the fact that he's taking that bold action to chart a course to a secure future. And this is
19:18just part of that. Obviously, it's not just national service, it's part of a package that's
19:23been outlined for children and young people, as well as defence, because it crosses across both.
19:28It's also about volunteering. So actually, it's also about bringing forward young people for
19:32voluntary opportunities, whether that be working in their community on a Saturday throughout a year,
19:39to really provide back to the residents they serve, and also to improve community cohesion
19:44and relationships within the community. So it's a much broader measure. And of course,
19:48that's also brought forward with some of the work that's being undertaken in terms of those
19:52record number of apprenticeships that the Secretary of State for Education outlined as well,
19:57by changing and looking again at some of the degrees that we've seen in recent years that
20:03have not been actually delivering for the students that are receiving them. So it's a package of
20:08measures for children and young people. And I know there'll be a lot more that the Prime Minister
20:11will outline as part of the manifesto when that comes forward in the next week or so.
20:15Okay, let's move on slightly to some more local issues as we've got you both here.
20:21Yeah, so next tonight, last month, the Medway Council Planning Committee approved plans to turn
20:27part of Chatham Docks into a business park. Pillwater, who are behind the plan, says that
20:31it will create hundreds of jobs and council officers say it won't stop Chatham Docks from
20:35being a working port. But businesses say they may not be able to operate if the plans go ahead with
20:40up to 800 jobs on the line. Vince, so I mean, part of what Labour's all about is the Party of
20:46the Working People. But those workers on the docks, they're working people, aren't they? And they
20:51could have their jobs lost. Well, let me say a couple of things on this. I think there's been
20:56a statement put out by George's group in the last 48 hours. Look, planning is a quasi-judicial matter.
21:03So every individual around that table, whichever political party or none, would be voting on this
21:09on an individual basis. It's not a whipped vote like we would have perhaps at a full council
21:13meeting. So individuals came to their conclusions. The office's recommendation was for approval.
21:19That's, again, independent. That's not got political interference to suggest that would be
21:25seriously inaccurate because, again, this is a legal process. I was really pleased to bring both
21:31parties, Peel and Mattel, together at the start of the year. It was a cordial conversation.
21:38And for me, one of the things that came up there, and again, I'm not going to give a running
21:42commentary on that whole meeting, but what was clear is at no point has Mattel made an offer
21:48to Peel to buy the land. Peel didn't say we don't want to receive an offer. They were saying they'd
21:57always welcome an offer. So actually, Mattel, who were worth in the region of 20 billion euros,
22:02if they were really concerned about saving jobs, they would have made an offer to Peel.
22:07They haven't done that. So I think the senior managers at Mattel, if they're serious about
22:14looking at this, obviously, fundamentally, this is an issue between a landlord and a tenant. But
22:19unlike most other difficult situations between landlords and tenants, the tenant is one of the
22:25richest companies in this sector in the world. They have the resources, if they chose to,
22:33to make an offer to Peel, and they've chosen not to do that so far.
22:36You previously were part of the Save Chatham Docks campaign, weren't you? So what's changed?
22:41So I said after the election, we want to try and make sure we keep those jobs in Medway. That's
22:46why I said to both parties, get round the table with me. Let's look at the art of the achievable.
22:51That's what we've done compared to George's predecessor's predecessor, who left a letter
22:57from the same solicitor that wrote to us that we responded to in a couple of weeks,
23:02left a letter for 18 months without even acknowledging it. That's what you've got
23:05under a Conservative administration. This is a challenging situation. And I'm really clear that
23:12I want this to try and make progress. A planning application comes in. It has to be looked at on
23:18its merit. That's what we legally have to do. But actually, Mattel, again, the tenant could be
23:24reaching out, could be making that offer. And I don't know why they haven't. If they are serious,
23:29why haven't they reached out to Peel with an offer to buy the land? They have the resources,
23:34they have the means to do that, and they're choosing not to. So if they're serious about
23:38defending jobs themselves, reach out, make that offer. George, you're shaking your head.
23:44Well, I'm afraid it's just not correct. I mean, I've been out too and met with both Peel and also
23:49Mattel. I've been listening to them. I've been down to meet the St Mary's Island Residents
23:54Association that my fantastic colleague, Habib Tejan, works very closely with in terms of
23:58championing their concerns. And I'm afraid they feel a sense of betrayal because, I mean, I wasn't
24:03on the council prior to May last year, but I'm afraid it wasn't myself, it wasn't my deputy
24:08leader, and it wasn't members of my team going and meeting with residents and promising them
24:13what I'm afraid Vince now can't deliver. Now, there are two things going on here. Firstly,
24:18there's a planning application around Basin 3, which Vince is correct is a quasi-judicial process,
24:22and independent, you know, members went there independently minded, open minded and voted on
24:27that. And that's for members of that committee to make that judgment. Now, in terms of when it comes
24:32to the local plan, I've been very clear with my team on this. We're going to be looking at this
24:36very closely. And that is a political process. And it is a process that the leader of the council has
24:41significant influence and power over, much like the previous leader of the council did. And that's
24:47particularly the area where we're at the moment a little bit concerned. And I think residents are
24:50right to feel that sense of betrayal, because they were told time and time again by not only the
24:55leader of the council, but his deputy, by parliamentary candidates, and also by other
25:00members of his top team, that they would receive that support, and that the Labour group were behind
25:07saving the docks and saving those jobs. And now they feel, and they've been told that effectively,
25:12well, we don't have a view on this, and we're sitting here watching as if we're bystanders,
25:15when it's them that are going to have to take the decision on the local plan. So we discussed the
25:19local plan at our first shadow cabinet meeting under my leadership a couple of weeks ago,
25:23and we'll be looking at it very closely. Now delayed until after the general election in terms
25:27of the next stages of that, but we'll be looking at it very closely. And the Conservative opposition
25:31will be coming to a view. But I can tell you something, I won't be going out promising things
25:35to residents, nor will any of my team, that we can't deliver, because it's not the right thing
25:40to do. And at the end of the day, people need to have trust in their politicians, and they need to
25:44have trust actually in me as leader of the opposition, and I hope eventually I will be the
25:48leader of the council, that when I say we'll do something, it will actually be delivered. And that
25:53is the difference under my leadership, this new leadership with my new team, that we will bring
25:58moving forward. Very quickly, come back on that if you'd like to, Vince. Well, look, we've been very
26:03clear we want to get the parties in the room. The previous administration, George's political party,
26:08failed to do that. We've got them in the room. Mittal and Peel could be having that discussion
26:14around future, and we want them to do that. We absolutely want them to do that. We'd encourage
26:18them to do that. We'd encourage Mittal to make an offer to Peel. That's something which, again,
26:24is within their grasp. That's not for me as leader of the council, that's for them to deal with
26:28ultimately as a landlord and tenant issue, and I'd encourage them to do that. Great. Well, thank you
26:33to both of you for joining us. That's all we've got time for, I'm afraid. That's all from us here
26:37at the Kent Politics Show. Thanks to our guests tonight for coming into the studio. We'll be back
26:41very soon, but stay with us because Kent Tonight is coming up next with all the latest news from
26:46across the county. Have a great evening. I'll see you very soon.