The Kent Politics Show - Friday 14th June 2024
Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Bartholomew Hall and Medway GP and KMTV's Health Expert Dr Julian Spinks and Co-founder of Rainbows over Medway and LGBQT+ rights activist Shea Coffey.
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. It's the show that gets Kent
00:28politicians and leading figures talking. I'm Bartholomew Hall and in tonight's show we'll
00:33be looking back at the manifesto announcements. Of course it's just under three weeks until Kent
00:38decides who will represent them in Parliament as the county finally goes to the polls.
00:43And from Monday through to yesterday we saw all the major parties outlining their vision
00:47for government. Joining me on the sofa to make sense of it all is Medway GP and KMTV health
00:53expert Dr Julian Spinks and co-founder of Rainbows Over Medway and LGBTQ rights activist
01:00Shea Coffey. But before we dig into all of that let's talk a little bit more about the campaign
01:05across Kent. We know the Labour Party are targeting a handful of seats here Dover and
01:10Deal being one, East Thanet, Rochester and Strood, Gillingham and Raynham and of course Canterbury.
01:15With tens of thousands of students Canterbury has been the one glimmer of red in the Blue
01:19Wall County since 2017. With the sometimes controversial Labour candidate Rosie Duffield
01:25representing constituents in Kent's only city ever since. But a July election means those same
01:31students may not be here for polling day. Could that help or hinder her chances? Our politics
01:37producer Oliver Leader de Sacks has been finding out. Rosie Duffield has been the MP for Canterbury
01:42since 2017 with a student vote being attributed to helping her secure the historically Conservative
01:48seat. But since then she has garnered controversy for her stance on trans issues and for going
01:54against the Labour leadership. With a July election potentially depriving her of the student vote
02:00what will this mean for her 48% predicted vote share? As you see over my shoulder there's a
02:06pro-Palestine University of Kent encampment right in the heart of the Canterbury campus and that
02:13would have you thinking that this is quite a politically engaged student body. But there's
02:18plenty of students here that I've spoken to who don't really know who they'll be voting for,
02:23don't tend to understand the big issues or seem a bit disillusioned or clocked out with it all.
02:29The students that I did speak to on camera though don't really seem to be that keen
02:34on the Labour candidate for the area. So I would probably vote Labour but I don't like the Labour
02:42candidate for this area so I was probably gonna vote for the Greens. Rosie Duffield got quite a
02:47few controversial opinions which I don't like and especially they affect me less but my friends
02:56they find quite offensive some of them which doesn't sit well with me. What the average
03:00Canterbury population would vote towards and student population are quite two different
03:04things. They have different interests, different concerns. Despite these passing students being
03:10against the Labour candidate Duffield feels confident she will come out on top come July.
03:16Obviously we're going in for a July election in the heart of the the summertime where students
03:22may not be around. Are you worried about how that could impact your election chances?
03:27That's a really good question because people have talked about this since 2017 and certainly in 2017
03:32when we had a slightly earlier election the students really helped and they were very
03:36enthused by Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party and that really helped me.
03:40But in the December 2019 election my vote went up 10 times and the students weren't here
03:46so I think we'll have to see. It'd be great if I can enthuse some students. Polling nearly 20
03:51points behind is a Conservative candidate Louise Harvey-Huark. With national service and attacks
03:58on supposedly worthless university courses on the National Party's agenda how confident does
04:04she feel as a university worker herself that she can win over young people? I think what goes in
04:10my favour is that I am also a student. So I do work at Christchurch and I have done for the last
04:16nine years but I'm also a student as well. My husband was a student, he's still paying off his
04:20student loan. My daughter was a student. I know full well what it means to be a student and how
04:27that can, you know, how voting is important to you. So I would say that actually I'm a really
04:33good candidate and an advocate for students given that I have experience working at the university.
04:39With both candidates facing their own battle against the tens of thousands of students that
04:44have the power to vote in Kent's only city their turnout could prove critical to Canterbury's
04:50future. Oliver Leader the sacks for KNTV and for a full list of candidates just go to Kent Online.
04:59Now as Oliver mentioned there the former Labour MP has been criticised in the past for her stance
05:04her stance on trans issues and single-sex spaces with LGBTQ plus Labour calling for her to lose
05:10the whip back in 2022. But Rosie Duffield has repeatedly stated she is not anti-trans
05:16especially in a recent Times article where she wrote she which where she says she wants
05:20greater protections for women's rights. We asked her if she feels her beliefs will alienate voters
05:26in the city. They shouldn't have done but I mean obviously everyone's got to make their own mind
05:30up. I don't think there should be a clash between women's rights and trans rights and everyone else's
05:35rights but where our spaces do collide potentially that's where I think the law needs to clarify
05:41matters and women have every right to be able to have same-sex care and single-sex spaces if they
05:47need to so that's you know it's up to everyone else what they feel about that. Well now it is
05:53a good time to bring in our two guests here Dr Julian Spinks and Shay Coffey. Now Shay I wanted
05:58to come to you first as we heard there one of the central debates at the moment seems to be around
06:03those single-sex spaces we've seen it in the Conservative Manifesto for example but as a
06:08trans rights activist yourself and a trans person what have you made of some of the
06:13policies and some of the language used in those policy announcements? The language is always
06:18problematic from wherever we come from the language is problematic. Sometimes you look at these
06:25policies that they're putting up and it's really just red meat for the party faithful. You talk to
06:30trans people and access to single-sex spaces is not at the top of their list of worries, it's not
06:35the top of the list of their concerns and you have to wonder why we keep repeating the same thing
06:40that somehow that there is a danger in gender-neutral bathrooms when we were off camera
06:46talking about exactly how in Europe it's just a norm. Absolutely my experience being over in
06:54Copenhagen didn't see a single toilet that was actually single-sex and yet nobody was really
06:59concerned about it and I do feel that it's almost like it's a totemic part of the argument
07:06but actually doesn't form a very big part of anybody's lives to be honest with you.
07:12Would you say then that this is more of a cultural war which is putting what is a
07:18protected characteristic a certain group of people at the heart of what is just politics?
07:22Absolutely it's a manufactured culture war. We've seen it before in the past when
07:28parties don't have anything left in the tank they start to drag out you know section 28 or
07:33what we're looking at now is a trans section 28 and I understand the arguments but quite frankly
07:40if we start looking at putting trans people in their own little room which has been suggested
07:45are they going to get the same quality of health care? Everything needs to be nuanced and
07:51this sort of almost blanket bombing of ideas that this is how it should be done and there needs to
07:56be that and no other way is really concerning for not just the trans community but the LGBT
08:03community and to a certain extent women's rights because some of these people who are campaigning
08:07for what we would like to say anti-trans they're also looking at limiting abortion rights and
08:13you can't see that as being exactly protecting women can you?
08:17Some of the issues that the parties raise they say one of them for example Reform UK say that
08:23they don't want to see so-called trans ideology as they say in education. The Conservative Manifesto
08:28says biological sex is a reality and that identity politics shouldn't be taught in schools.
08:34If this is an issue as they say that should be addressed in education what would be the way
08:39forward? How should LGBTQ rights be dealt with in schools?
08:43Well for a start identity politics is you start to it's a very loaded term and when you actually
08:50look at the the stuff that is sent to schools the stuff that schools use it is always age
08:55appropriate and it's very carefully thought out and what we're actually saying is look these people
09:01are different to you and that's okay and what we're teaching with identity politics is that
09:08actually society is made up of lots of different people and that's different genders different
09:14races different ethnicities and it's all okay but when you take that out and when you don't teach
09:20kids that as we haven't for between 88 and 2003 you end up with a generation of people some of
09:26whom are in charge now Rishi Sunak 44 you know he went through section 28 he was taught under
09:32section 28 as was Kemi Badenoch as was Suella Braverman and so you have to wonder does that
09:38have an impact and when you don't teach young people that there's acceptance you leave a void
09:44and whatever fills that void is usually some kind of hate. Julian as a GP how often are you finding
09:49yourself talking to young people who find themselves confused and you know at odds with
09:55what some of their leaders are telling them? Almost inevitably children go through a phase
10:00where they're not really certain where they're going what they're like and so on and we have to
10:04be able to talk to them openly about what's going on it's not trying to push them in any particular
10:09direction and likewise when we've got older people there I've got to treat people equally
10:15I have to use my judgment because for example gay people and particularly transgender people
10:20have particular health needs but using my judgment isn't the same as being judgmental I
10:25don't really think that putting people in little boxes does not work because in the end we share
10:31far more than we actually differ. I want to mention some of the other policies from some
10:36of the other parties here the Lib Dems say they want to reform the gender recognition process to
10:40remove the requirement for medical reports and recognise non-binary identities in law. The Greens
10:45are campaigning for the right of self-identification that was obviously a huge debate up in Scotland
10:50and what do you both make on that when it comes to identity and being able to recognise
10:55your own identity? When I went to my GP and said I'd like to be referred to the
11:00gender identity clinic in one sense I'd already self-identified. We need to be careful around
11:07self-identity I totally understand that and totally accept that I feel that it should be
11:12made easier but I still think we need some kind of check or balance in there I think the ability
11:19just to self-ID completely for me personally I'm not speaking for the community we need to have
11:26a safety net for people and I think possibly I've heard it suggested that you could go to your GP
11:32and your GP could under certain circumstances help you with that and kind of in effect sign you off.
11:39And just before we go to a break Julian did you have a point? It's a difficult thing because
11:44there's a whole spectrum from people who've started to move the process to people who have
11:48major surgery at what point do you actually move gender? Well we're going to a break now
11:52we'll be back in just a few minutes where we'll be talking about health care.
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15:09Hello and welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm still joined by our health
15:14expert and local GP Dr Julian Spinks and LGBTQ plus rights activist Shea Coffey.
15:23But now manifestos mean we have a clearer picture of what each party is offering in terms of health
15:28care if they were to become the next government. We've heard a lot about GP appointments, waiting
15:33times, maternity care here in Kent and whether the NHS is buckling under the pressure. It was
15:39yesterday many miles from the county that Labour launched their manifesto but just before they did
15:44a music teacher Nathaniel Dye spoke on stage about his terminal bowel cancer and how he feels it
15:50could have been avoided. There's nothing I can do about it now but I can't stop wondering what
15:55might have been because I spent over a hundred days waiting for cancer treatment when the
16:01government's target is 62 and there's a chance that if chemotherapy had come sooner my cancer
16:08might not have spread but it's clear that the system has badly let me down. I represent the
16:16human cost of an NHS neglected over the past 14 years and I invite anyone who stands by that
16:25dismal record in government to look me in the eye and say that it was good enough. Obviously a very
16:32powerful story there Julian. I want to come to you first as somebody who speaks with patients every
16:37day how common is a story such as Nathaniel's? Thankfully not that common but it's more common
16:43than it was and it really points out that behind those statistics the very long waiting lists and
16:47so on are humans, are individuals who are suffering and that's an extreme end of things actually a
16:53cancer which is now inoperable but even people waiting for a hernia who can't work or whatever
16:58this is it actually is impacting individual people's lives and simple things like getting
17:03an appointment with me which is getting increasingly difficult means people can't get rapid treatment.
17:09Shane as someone in the Medway area and someone familiar with how long it can take
17:14especially for trans people going through treatment what is your take on current issues
17:18with the NHS? I think the people in the NHS do an incredible job. I don't think they're politically
17:25certainly in the last 14 years they haven't politically been supported. The idea of trans
17:30healthcare in the NHS is currently a complete joke. More than 10% of appointments in Kent are
17:36taking more than three weeks to happen in the county. Now that's above the national average.
17:40Julian how do we go about changing that? We've heard lots from parties about cutting waiting
17:45lists, increasing appointment numbers or increasing the workforce. How do you see the problems being
17:52improved? The first thing to say is we will always have appointments taking more than three weeks
17:57sometimes more than four weeks because if I ask someone to come back after four weeks I'll book
18:01them an appointment and that counts against it. However the big problem we have is in Kent and
18:05Medway we have the highest GP list sizes in the country and in particular in Medway and Swale
18:13we have way high list sizes compared with others. Typical national lists are 2,400 per GP.
18:19We have 3,800 so that's why we struggle to actually be able to offer enough appointments.
18:24There literally isn't enough time in the day to see everyone who's needed.
18:28One of the big issues of course with the NHS and lots of patients have been saying as well is
18:33the strikes that have happened and how long they've gone on for. I think some of the doctors
18:38have been asking for 35% pay rise that's well above inflation or as high as it has been.
18:45How realistic do you think that ask really is? In one go it's not is it but as again as we were
18:52discussing off camera it is possible to put a plan in over the course of three to five years to
18:58bring them up to standard. It's not outside the realms of common sense that it could be worked on
19:04but again you look at this government and you do wonder why won't they get around the table and
19:11talk to the doctors? It's a really tricky one to kind of address isn't it? Absolutely and I've
19:16negotiated on behalf of GPs in the past you have an opening position and that was to restore pay
19:21to where it was 14 years ago but you then negotiate and you do it. The problem was that
19:27the government just sort of said no that's it take what we want and we won't go any further.
19:32Now we're going to have GPs who are going into industrial disputes as well. We can't go on strike
19:36but we're facing a similar problem that our funding is getting so low we can't run our
19:40practices effectively. One of the ideas that was thrown around by Labour was to essentially
19:47Labour want to cut NHS waiting times with 40,000 more appointments every week but they want to do
19:52it by paying staff overtime rates to do extra shifts out of hours. Is that wise to be asking
19:59NHS staff to work more? They're going to have to sort out the pay to start off with anyway
20:04but a lot of these people are working incredibly hard and are doing long hours already so adding
20:08to it is going to be a problem and those 40,000 it's two percent of outpatients appointments so
20:13it's not going to make an enormous dent into things like waiting times for outpatient appointments.
20:18Well we're going to move on to our next topic now. Finally, while elections are clearly serious
20:24business with lots of issues on the line for voters here in Kent, could we do with getting a
20:28little bit silly sometimes? Well the Liberal Democrats certainly think so. Their campaign
20:33has been cutting through recently in the polls in no small part due to their increasingly famous set
20:38of stunts courtesy of party leader Sir Ed Davey who was in fact in Tunbridge Wells yesterday
20:43tackling an assault course for our cameras. It's a marginal seat set to be a toss-up between
20:48Conservatives and the Lib Dems according to the latest YouGov polling but could Ed Davey be doing
20:54the hurdles to help his local candidate clear those polling hurdles? Let's take a look at what went on yesterday.
21:00One leg over followed by the other leg behind you. Well done. Brilliant. Easy peasy.
21:16All right okay. Ed you enjoying yourself? Of course I am. Of course I am. I've got a great team of people having fun.
21:30Obviously quite silly. We haven't seen this from any of the other party leaders.
21:41What do you make of it? I mean should party leaders be doing this kind of thing?
21:45It's obviously eye-catching. It's getting us talking but isn't it just a bit too silly?
21:50Well funny enough I was speaking with one of the candidates locally for Lib Dems and
21:56they said it's great engagement and it works for them. He just seems to be on a gap here
22:03so I don't know. I mean it's certainly getting them noticed. Whether or not it's actually
22:07getting the message across I'm not so sure. Julian what do you make of it? Well I mean the
22:13Conservatives and Labour are led by really white, quite dour politicians. It's not good fun looking
22:19at them and listening to them. I think it gets them noticed. If you're a small party you've got
22:23to do something to get past the fact that the press will tend to concentrate on the two big
22:28parties. So why not? But of course talking about the two big parties, Ed Davey is not likely, we
22:33look at the polls, not likely to be our next Prime Minister. Would you want the next Prime Minister
22:38to be doing these kind of stunts when you think about the UK on the global stage? I think some
22:43people would say that the current Prime Minister is doing these kind of stunts. There's being
22:48foolish and there's making a fool of yourself and there is a difference. Would I want him doing it?
22:54I'm not so sure. You can't imagine him going along to a world forum and having just completed a
23:01marathon or something. So I don't know. I think it probably brings him down a little bit in that
23:06respect. They have been quite careful that the things he does have got some sort of background
23:11to it. So he went swimming and they were talking about pollution, this is about exercise and so on.
23:16So they do link it. But Boris tried this and really eventually it came back to haunt him.
23:22Of course, Boris Johnson was one of those politicians that managed to break through
23:27the kind of, some of the more controversial things that happened because of some of the
23:32gaffes that he had. He kind of had that personality about him. Is it maybe a bit of a political mask
23:37that some of them could wear to help them do better, I suppose? Yeah, I mean, I suppose you're
23:44seeing him being natural. I mean, when he falls over a tyre, there's no covering that. And maybe,
23:50like I say, maybe it does work. I just would like to know a bit more about Lib Dem's policies while
23:56it's happening. Any of the stunts that you've seen you might want to take part in yourselves?
24:02No, it's a simple answer. I'm waiting to see what he does. Maybe he'll come up with something else
24:07I prefer. But, you know, as I say, I think it's got its place, providing there's a serious
24:13background behind it. Not in these heels. Well, thank you both very much for joining us. Brilliant
24:21discussion there about all of that. And no doubt we'll be talking to you again at some
24:26point in this election cycle. So thank you very much for that. Well, just before we go,
24:32while he was warming up for his live report for us yesterday, our politics producer Oliver
24:38de Sacks thought he'd give that same obstacle course a go whilst talking through Ed Davey's day
24:44out. Ed Davey actually stumbled here earlier today. But he did bounce back quite quickly,
24:51a bit like the Liberal Democrat polls after they launched their manifesto on Monday. And it is a
24:56very interesting manifesto because it is bridging the gap between different communities in Kent and
25:03beyond. And I had to ask him, is balancing recreation and conservation too big a leap for
25:10the Liberal Democrats to manage? Clear this is the first time they'd ever win this seat if they
25:15were to win it here. So I asked Mike Martin if he's the right man for the job. Brilliant there,
25:24of course. I wanted to ask, just to wrap up, the election campaign so far, we're halfway through.
25:28Have there been any big flashpoints, highlights for you that have stood out?
25:33It's been an unusual three weeks of electioneering. Anything that's particularly stood out? I think
25:39the sudden rise of reform, the fact that clearly, maybe it was planned, I don't know. But it's
25:47concerning for the LGBT community. Well, reform is an interesting one. We've seen that polling in
25:52the last 24 hours that says maybe they're on par with the Conservatives, but others suggesting
25:57otherwise. The leader, Nigel Farage, obviously a controversial figure. I wanted to come to you
26:02because you've spoken to him before. I have spoken to him before. He's a pleasant enough person to
26:07talk to. I don't really agree with his politics. And they have a policy to abolish waiting lists
26:12in two years. And I hate to say it, but it's going to take a lot of flying pigs to be able
26:16to apply that, to actually get that to happen. Well, both of you, thank you very much for joining
26:21us on the show today. That is it. That is all from us today at the Kent Politics Show. Thank
26:26you to our guests for coming into the studio. And thank you very much for watching. We'll be back
26:30next Friday at 5pm with another episode of the Kent Politics Show. But do stay with us
26:35because Kent Tonight is coming up next with all the latest news from across the county.
26:40And this Monday, we are hosting our own Medway Hustings at the Universities at Kent campus.
26:45Just search that and you'll find where you can buy the tickets online. Have a great evening.
26:49Good night.