Join Rob Bailey on the day Kent's local election results are announced with interviews and analysis from the counts in Tunbridge Wells and Maidstone.
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00:00Welcome to a special Kent politics show live on KMTV.
00:29I'm Rob Bailey.
00:31Tonight we're reporting live from a local election count in Tunbridge Wells and Maidstone.
00:35As you can see behind me the counting is still underway with many seats still undeclared.
00:41Here are the headlines so far.
00:43Liberal Democrats in Kent believe they can be the biggest party on both councils that
00:48are fighting elections today.
00:50Labour have taken the seat of Conservative cabinet member Patrick Garton in Maidstone
00:55and in Tunbridge Wells counting started late but Labour were the first party to get a seat
01:00on the board retaining high brooms.
01:03Meanwhile counting in the Police and Crime Commissioner elections also took place yesterday
01:08but they won't begin until Sunday with no results until Sunday evening.
01:12Well joining me first tonight is our reporter Sophia Akin.
01:15Hello Rob.
01:16Hi Sophia.
01:17We were expecting to have results by now, they're now saying it's going to be much later
01:22so what do we know at this point?
01:24Yeah as you said we were expecting to know a lot earlier on in the day.
01:27I think it's going to be a late night for all of us here.
01:30Counting was due to get underway at 12 o'clock but it actually ended up quite a bit later
01:34than that.
01:35I think part of that is because the turnout was higher than was expected.
01:38They had to verify not only those votes for the borough councillors but also the PCC ones.
01:43So at this point we know very little.
01:45I think there have only been four wards announced so far here in Tunbridge Wells and we've just
01:50heard in the last five to ten minutes or so three Lib Dems have been re-elected in
01:55Culverden.
01:56Shortly before that we heard that in Cranbrook and Sissinghurst two Conservatives won seats
02:01and one Tunbridge Wells Alliance so at this point it's looking to be a pretty mixed picture.
02:07We saw just one day in fact before the election we saw the National Leader Ed Davey here confident
02:13that his party would take overall control but he's not here today and we've been trying
02:18to speak to the Lib Dems but at this point we've not heard from them so we'll actually
02:21have to see what is going to happen at this point.
02:24Yes absolutely in fact the Liberal Democrats are making the early running in both of the
02:27elections today.
02:28They're picking up the most seats but they seem to be very careful about being overconfident
02:32is that right?
02:33I think that's it.
02:34I spoke to Nicholas Pope from the Tunbridge Wells Alliance just before.
02:38I asked him why he thought that the Lib Dems or we can hear a couple of things going on
02:42around us at the moment but I think he said the reason why Lib Dems may not want to speak
02:46at the moment is they don't want to be premature.
02:48They don't want to say exactly by how many seats that they could win overall control.
02:53We know at the moment it's a no overall control council with a Lib Dem joint administration
02:59so I think that was the whispers of some of the other candidates was that they don't want
03:04to be overconfident at this point.
03:06We'll be talking to you again soon Sophia but for now thank you very much.
03:11Labour were the first party to put a seat on the board in Tunbridge Wells tonight.
03:14They retained High Brooms, a seat that they had before but before today they were part
03:19of a power sharing coalition here in Tunbridge Wells alongside the Liberal Democrats and
03:23the Tunbridge Wells Alliance.
03:25The Liberal Democrats are now eyeing outright control of the council which could force Labour
03:29back into the shadows.
03:31Well joining me now is Hugh Pound, a candidate in this election and also the candidate who
03:35will stand against Greg Clark in the general election when that's held.
03:39Greg, would you like to join me here?
03:42Thank you very much for joining us.
03:43Hugo.
03:44I'm very sorry.
03:45That's alright.
03:46So it's obviously, I mean this is very much up for grabs, so we've got three parties here
03:50all vying for power.
03:52What do you think Labour's chances are today?
03:54Well it's interesting because I don't think that we are all vying for power.
03:57I think the Lib Dems here in Tunbridge Wells and in Maidstone as I understand it are vying
04:01for power.
04:02In other words they want to take control.
04:03The Labour Party has never said that we would want or able to take control of Tunbridge
04:07Wells.
04:08We've worked in coalition for two years and it's worked really well.
04:10I have a feeling that might slip away today and that the Lib Dems, because they seek power,
04:16may take control of the council, which I think is a shame in terms of what we've achieved
04:19over the last couple of years.
04:20I'll just ask you to stand a little closer.
04:22Yes, so as you say it has been this power sharing arrangement.
04:24You don't think there's a chance that that would be put back together again as three
04:28parties?
04:29Well it could be, but we have to have conversations with the Lib Dems if they want us to join
04:33them in coalition and I think that there would be value in doing so and I hope that they
04:36will have that conversation with us, yes.
04:38It's very easy sometimes in local elections to get caught up in the national picture.
04:42There's an awful lot of talk about whether this is about Keir Starmer or Rishi Sunak,
04:46but in Tunbridge Wells this has been an election fought very fiercely on local issues and particularly
04:50around transport and around regeneration of Tunbridge Wells town centre itself.
04:56Do you think, obviously you've been in power sharing with the Liberal Democrats, do you
04:59think that the current direction is right though?
05:01Because there's been some criticism, particularly of parking fees, of the new traffic arrangements
05:07in the centre of town, are changes needed?
05:11Well some of the issues that you've just raised are beyond our control.
05:15For instance the parking fees and the problems of driving around the middle of town are actually
05:19under the control of Kent County Council, not Tunbridge Wells Borough Council.
05:23I think there's my wife losing her vote in one of the wards in Tunbridge Wells.
05:27Oh I'm very sorry.
05:29So I think that as a coalition we have worked well together and I think cross party working
05:33at a local level works well.
05:34I think at a national level it doesn't work and the reality is that everywhere out on
05:39the doorstep people are saying it's either Conservative or Labour, with a little bit
05:42of reform mixed in as well, but no one else.
05:45And I think locally people consider local issues, you know, are sort of a Lib Dem type
05:50activity, but nationally they don't seem to be in with a chance, which is interesting.
05:54And I have to ask you about the general election.
05:56We're all expecting news at some point in the near future now about when that might
05:59be held.
06:00Tunbridge Wells has always been a Conservative seat, ever since it was created.
06:04Greg Clark has a big majority here.
06:07What's it going to take for Labour to make inroads into that?
06:10Well I think very simply the five missions that we've got, which are around building
06:15more homes, reforming the NHS, providing opportunity for young people, tackling crime across our
06:23constituency here in Tunbridge Wells, and a green agenda, actually are beginning to
06:27resonate with people.
06:28We need to communicate that more positively.
06:29I don't think it's about let's not vote Tory, I think it's about let's vote Labour.
06:33Even younger families in Tunbridge Wells, undeniably, are saying we're going to vote
06:37Labour and I think that's what's going to happen.
06:39Hugo Pound, thank you so much for joining us.
06:41Thank you very much.
06:45So the other party that's involved in that power sharing arrangement is the Tunbridge
06:49Wells Alliance.
06:50Now they're fighting many seats, they were the second biggest party in Tunbridge Wells
06:54before today.
06:55Earlier on we caught up with their leader, Nicholas Pope, and he told us what they were
06:59expecting to achieve today.
07:03Nick Pope's just lost his seat.
07:08We just heard that Nicholas Pope has actually just lost his seat down there.
07:11Unfortunately he is not able to join us, but who is able to join us is Dan Essin, local
07:17democracy reporter, who's been covering these elections for a variety of media outlets today.
07:23Daniel, what's your sense of what message we're getting from the results that have come
07:27in so far?
07:28So far, only just over a quarter of the total 39 seats have actually been declared, but
07:32so far essentially it's looking quite good for the Liberal Democrats and not quite as
07:36good for the Conservatives as you'd expect.
07:38So the real fight here, even Conservatives aren't particularly confident in their chances,
07:41the real fight here isn't for the Conservatives to regain their former heartland.
07:44This council was Tory for about 25 years, up until a couple of years ago.
07:48The fight isn't for the Conservatives to regain control of the council, it's between the parties
07:51which are currently in the governing coalition, Labour, the Liberal Democrats as the largest
07:55and the Tunbridge Wells Alliance, and which of them will end up the kingmaker.
07:58And as you said, the Liberal Democrats are quite confident that they'll get a majority.
08:01So they think they might do, or come very close to it.
08:04So I mean, there has been this narrative around, nationally, around how many seats the Conservatives
08:09might lose today.
08:11We know that they were only defending 36 seats in Kent, they've already managed to defend
08:16a few.
08:17I mean, in your view, how bad could it be today for the Conservatives?
08:21It's hard to say for certain, especially in Tunbridge Wells, because of the boundary changes
08:24mean that some of the wards have moved.
08:25They had 11 seats out of almost 50 on the Borough Council before today's election.
08:29Now there's only 39 seats.
08:31I would imagine they'd be lucky to keep such a high proportion of seats.
08:34They've probably been knocked down to below 10, I would guess, depending on which seats
08:38they are.
08:39Either way, I don't think it's going to be good for the Conservatives, and I don't think
08:42many of them think it's going to be good for them either.
08:45One of the interesting little nuances we've had from the results we've had so far has
08:48been the performance of Reform.
08:51Everyone thinking that Reform might be the party that splits the Conservative vote.
08:55We've seen in some cases here, they're getting two thirds of the votes proportionately to
09:01the Conservatives.
09:02I mean, one seat, it was 80 to the Conservatives, 60 to Reform.
09:04How significant is that?
09:05It depends what you mean.
09:06Like I say, I don't think there's a candidate in every seat in this borough, but it shows
09:10you the main function of the Reform Party, both nationally and in local elections.
09:14I think many people in the Reform Party themselves would admit this.
09:17They're not going to be taking seats themselves.
09:19What they function as is a spoiler on the vote of the Conservatives and dragging votes
09:22away from the Tories.
09:23And that is essentially how they function.
09:25I think they're quite aware that that's how they work, and that's how they seem to be
09:28going in, you know, in local elections, like here in Tunbridge Wells, disaffected former
09:31Conservative voters, rather than, you know, if they really can't stomach voting for the
09:35Liberal Democrats, the Greens or the Labour Party, they might say they'll vote to Reform
09:38anyway.
09:39And that's the main influence of Reform.
09:40I'd be very surprised to see Reform pick up any seats here or in Maidstone, for that matter.
09:44We have seen, I don't, we haven't been focusing on Maidstone too much, we'll have some focus
09:49on that in the second half of the show, but a cabinet member's already gone, Patrick Garton,
09:53in Maidstone.
09:54How significant is that?
09:55Well, like I say, Maidstone, it's been under no overall control, sort of Tory minority
09:59administration for a little while now, but, you know, it's classically considered sort
10:03of Tory heartlands, even if they didn't get an outright majority.
10:05So the fact that their Tory cabinet members, quite well-known veteran councillors who've
10:08been around for a long time, are losing their seats, you know, is very significant.
10:11It doesn't say anything good for them.
10:13And just one little question, just before we start kind of thinking about Maidstone
10:17in more detail, about turnout, because, I mean, the initial whispers were quite high.
10:21They had to revise downwards.
10:22It's ended up at 37%.
10:25How does that, what does that tell you about how engaged, how kind of passionate voters
10:30are or were yesterday?
10:32Well, I mean, the short of it is not very, you know, like I said, when we first came
10:35here, people thought turnout was 45%, which for a local election, that'd be absolutely
10:39seismic.
10:40Anyway, near to 50% is huge for a local election.
10:41It usually hovers around sort of 33 to 35, 37.1% it was here, which is marginally higher
10:46than the average that you get.
10:48Essentially, it tells you, it's always been the case that local elections don't get quite
10:52as high turnout as national general elections, usually about half or so.
10:57People are engaged in local politics to an extent.
11:00People sometimes turn out simply to express their disaffection with national politics.
11:04But as stuff like in Tunbridge Wells shows, the success of the Liberal Democrats, local
11:08elections aren't always simply a mirror of the national, but it's no secret that people
11:11simply don't vote as much in local elections.
11:14And if you had any whispers yet about, we've seen the Police and Crime Commissioner ballot
11:18on the floor, anything on that yet?
11:20Not a clue, to be honest.
11:21I would imagine the turnout will be slightly lower than for the full local elections, though,
11:24because a lot of people simply don't know what a PCC is.
11:26It's not a very well publicised role, and it has historically gotten quite low turnout.
11:30Daniel Essin, local democracy reporter, thank you so much for joining us.
11:34So as we've said before, this is very much still a live vote counting still taking place.
11:40We're likely to have more results for you when we come back after the short break, and
11:44we'll be live in Maidstone to find out what's happening there.
11:47So stay with us for more.
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14:53Welcome back to the Kent
15:16Politics Show, special live coverage of elections in
15:19Tunbridge Wells and Maidstone. Now we're going over to
15:21the Lib Dems who have been following all of the results.
15:25Well, Rob, we are getting there now. We're getting closer to a
15:30result. It is very close. At the moment, the Liberal Democrats
15:34are in the lead, but they are nowhere near majority. At the
15:37moment, they have ten seats. That's 20% of the share.
15:42Previously, in a previous administration, they had 22%,
15:45so it's looking like they will either get the same percentage
15:48of seats or gain it. In second place, the Conservatives
15:51currently have nine seats and Labour have eight seats, so it's
15:54all to play for. There are about five more wards to announce.
15:58It's about ten more seats in total, so we are getting there.
16:01In the next hour or so, we should know what's going to
16:04happen. Now, the previous administration was under no
16:06overall control with a Conservative leader. Could that
16:09be the same or could Liberal Democrats take the lead or
16:12could the Conservatives take the lead? Now, this time around,
16:15there have been some boundary changes here at Maidstone Borough
16:18Council. There has been a reduction in the number of seats.
16:20It's down to 49. Now, the Liberal Democrats say that is actually an
16:25advantage to them. I have been speaking to one of their
16:29councillors and also the parliamentary candidate about
16:32this. You are one of the Lib Dems who have won seats today.
16:37You are making good progress. It is still early days. Can Lib Dems
16:41do it here in Maidstone? Yes, with the boundary changes,
16:45we have a very good chance. The way the government is performing,
16:50or not performing at the moment, people are disenchanted and the
16:53Lib Dems have a very good chance. We did very well in government
16:57before, in my view, so we could do well again. Boundary changes
17:01have helped you? Yes, nine in the centre of Maidstone and five in
17:05Moreland, where we are very strong. After this local election,
17:09we will be stronger. When you are on the doorstep, what sort of
17:12issues are people talking to you about? Cost of living, illegal
17:17immigrants, that is the main topic, especially in Kent, and
17:23Brexit. How much can a lower-tier council do on those
17:26issues? We are the face to the public. A lot of people don't see
17:32their MPs, but they all see their local councillors, especially
17:38Lib Dems, because we all live where we represent. We do get a
17:42lot of stuff, but we can't affect it because we are not in
17:45government. That is why this government needs to change, and
17:47the sooner the better. You are the parliamentary candidate. When
17:51do you think the general election should be called? Local
17:53elections are pretty much out of the way. When should it be? As
17:56soon as possible. The last time he can go, he calls it before
18:01Christmas and it will be in January, which is not a good time
18:04to have a general election in December. The sooner the better.
18:08Let's get this sorted. Let's get on to a new government that
18:11governs. Do you think Lib Dems can gain more seats in the
18:16south-east come whenever that general election is? Polling
18:20doesn't suggest that many. Some would suggest one, maybe in Kent
18:23or two. Do you think you could do better than that? Yes, we can,
18:27because it is Conservatives. The Conservatives have virtually
18:31ruined this country and are hanging on, and we can't have
18:34another Prime Minister before the next election. It needs to
18:37have a general election where Lib Dems will do very well.
18:43Results are still coming in. They are just about to announce
18:46results for another ward. You might hear it on the tannoys in a
18:50second. I have just done some quick maths. It does look very
18:54unlikely that there will be a majority here in Maidstone for
18:57the next authority. There are only around 12 more seats left to
19:02count, so it is unlikely that the Lib Dems or Conservative party
19:06could gain that majority. That means there is most likely going
19:10to be a coalition of parties. I have been speaking to the leader
19:13of the Green group here at Maidstone, whether or not they
19:16would form a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. It is early
19:20day so far, but how do you feel the afternoon is going? It is a
19:24bit too exciting for my liking. It is going well. We have
19:30certainly had one Green announced, and I am expecting
19:34more. I am also an election agent for everyone, so I am keeping
19:40an eye out for all the stuff that is going on and running
19:44backwards and forwards. It is frantic at the moment, but it is
19:47really interesting and fun. I am really hopeful we will get a lot
19:51more Greens on the council this time. Do you think you could get
19:54enough seats to form a majority? No, I am pretty certain we won't
19:57get a majority, but we will have more influence than we have
20:00before. We have made a huge impact over the last couple of years,
20:03and we can use the very radical voice that we have got to push the
20:09council further. It is too early to call any decision, but Liberal
20:13Democrats are making gains so far. If they were to be the largest
20:17party but not have overall control, would you form a
20:19coalition with them? I am not going to discuss that at the
20:23moment. I want a few days off. We will see what the council make-up
20:26looks like. I would expect a call from them if they are the
20:30biggest group. I have no idea if I am going to agree to it or not.
20:34That would be a decision for whoever is elected, and we don't
20:38know who will be elected yet. Everything is up in the air. On
20:41the doorstep, what sort of things were voters telling you? What were
20:45the big issues that mattered to them in Maidstay? They are very
20:49unhappy with the size and volume of house building on farmland.
20:54Everybody is talking about the mansions that get built over
20:58much-needed farmland. They are also very unhappy about the lack of
21:02social and affordable housing. They were key. Traffic, again, as a
21:07result of the sprawl that we are seeing, is central to their
21:13concerns. Do you think the popularity of the Green Party is
21:17growing locally here in Kent? Clearly. In three years running,
21:21we have looked like we are at least doubling every year at the
21:26moment. We have over 50 councillors in Kent at the moment.
21:31Yes, we are growing quickly and rapidly, and it can only get
21:36better. That was me talking to Stuart Jeffery earlier this
21:42afternoon. I can now confirm that the Green Party has five seats.
21:46They will be hoping to gain a few more as the final wards come. We
21:50were there talking about some of the issues. The elections here is
21:53for Maidstone Borough Council. That is a lower-tier council. They
21:57are responsible for wheelie bins, litter and town spaces. The
22:03turnout here is looking to be around 27%, based on the wards
22:07which have already been announced. An election which will
22:10see a lot higher turnout is most likely to be the general election
22:13whenever that is called. It is hard to compare local elections
22:18to general elections, but I have been speaking to the current MP for
22:22Maidstone, Helen Grant, earlier today. Is she worried? These
22:28elections were always going to be really difficult for us at the last
22:33major elections. We had a vaccine bounce, so the bar was very, very
22:37high. I honestly think it is too early to tell, too early to be
22:42definitive. We have had one or two results in this morning. We have
22:45done very well. Nationally, Ben Hutchin got through extremely well.
22:51We just keep going. The next big election is going to be the general
22:55election. Are you worried for your seat going forward? Polling is
22:5950-50 whether or not it will be a Conservative hold or Labour could
23:02gain your seat. Are you worried? I have always worked as hard as I
23:07possibly could. That is what it is all about. Working hard to
23:13represent your constituents, working on what matters for them,
23:17whether it is roads, trains, potholes, defence spending. I have
23:22been doing that since 2008, when I became the prospective
23:27parliamentary candidate. I will continue to do that right up until
23:31the election comes. The big question is, when will this general
23:35election be? When would you like to see it? $6 million question,
23:39isn't it? That is in the hands of the Prime Minister. He has already
23:41said it is likely to be in the second half of this year. My bet
23:45would be October or November of this year. We are not quite there
23:52yet. We are getting there. It is heading to another no overall
23:56control for Maidstone Borough Council. The Labour group have
23:59made gains. Previously, they only had 11% of the vote but they have
24:03increased that to 16%. That is in line with a lot of national polling
24:08but the Labour Party are increasing in public favour. I
24:12reckon in the next hour or so we will know for certain what is
24:15happening here and we will have more in Kent tonight. Let's go back
24:20over to Rob in Tunbridge Wells. Has there been any update in the past
24:2515 minutes? What is it looking like down there? Are you any closer to
24:28know what is going on? As people were able to hear earlier on,
24:35results have been flowing in while we have been on air. I would not
24:38say close yet to a final result. I think it will be about seven o'clock
24:44at the earliest before we have a good picture. Sophia Aitken is
24:47joining me again now. We have had some more results coming in. The
24:53Liberal Democrats are up to around 12 seats now. It is fair to say
24:57momentum has definitely picked up here. It was a very slow start
25:00counting. It was supposed to start at 12 o'clock and ended up
25:03starting a couple of hours after that by the time they had got through
25:08verifying all those votes. You are correct. 12 Lib Dem seats at the
25:13moment, one Labour, two Tories and one Tunbridge Wells Alliance. As
25:16you mentioned, the leader, Nicholas Pope, has lost his seat for
25:20Tunbridge Wells Alliance. Momentum is starting to pick up. We have seen
25:2416 out of 39 seats declared. Whether we are getting out of here at
25:28seven o'clock, I'm not sure. It feels like there is still a lot to go
25:31yet. A lot of time to go. We heard earlier the Liberal Democrats not
25:35speaking to the press, scared of overconfidence, but at 12 seats and
25:38quite a significant lead already, they must be thinking overall
25:41control is within their sights. Yes, we wonder why they don't want to
25:46talk, but other candidates have been saying they don't want to
25:49overestimate, they don't want to perhaps get too overexcited. I think
25:52they would rather wait to see if that is the case before they are
25:56making any interviews, but perhaps we will speak to them afterwards. 12
26:00seats out of 39 they have got so far. We know previously they were in
26:05no overall control. We are close to the end, but there are other
26:08elections being counted over the course of this weekend. The Police
26:10and Crime Commissioner on Sunday and tomorrow, London Mayor. While
26:14that is not a Kent election, it is still important for us. It has a
26:17huge impact on Kent, as we know. We recently saw all of London's
26:23boroughs now being encompassed by the Ulez zones. People have been
26:26discussing if Sadiq Khan is not voted in again, would we see that
26:30being reversed? Would we see Ulez going back to just in the city,
26:33rather than encompassing all of boroughs, which we have seen have a
26:36huge knock-on effect on Kent motorists. Thank you. We will have to
26:41see. It is time to move on to Kent tonight. Stay with us, we will have
26:46more updates from the election counts in the news programme. Good
26:50night.