Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Rob Bailey, joined by Kate Belmonte of Medway Greens and Conservative Danny Nicklen from Dartford.
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00:00 Welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm Rob Bailey.
00:26 And this week, councils were accused of making a blizzard of cuts as they approved financial
00:31 plans for the coming year. Kent County Council raised its share of council tax bills by 5
00:36 per cent and paved the way for cuts to tips and libraries in the future. That's despite
00:42 a rebellion by Conservative councillors over proposals to close four waste recycling centres
00:47 late last year. Here's what Council Leader Roger Gough told our local democracy reporter
00:52 Gabriel Morris earlier this week.
00:55 We are coming in line with what many other local authorities have already done and we
01:01 will continue to be looking at this and a whole number of other related areas. What
01:06 is the case is that we are, as I say, under, regrettably, unsustainable financial pressure
01:12 and we have to continue to look, not just this year but in the years that follow, at
01:17 all the services we provide, the terms on which we do so to ensure that we can ensure
01:23 a sustainable future.
01:26 Well joining me this week is Kate Belmonte of Medway Greens and Conservative Danny Nicklin
01:31 from Dartford. Welcome. Thanks for joining us.
01:33 Thanks for having me.
01:34 Danny, I want to start with you and get some of your thoughts. We knew the narrative for
01:38 the budgets was going to be a very difficult one this year. All of the build-up had been
01:43 about how it was going to be painful, there were going to have to be cuts. Families are
01:47 going to be quite worried about a double whammy, aren't they, of rising bills and cuts to services
01:53 as a result of what's happened this week?
01:55 Well, first of all, thank you for having me. And yes, I mean, there's not much to disprove
02:01 what you said. In a cost of living crisis, we all have to be mindful of those making
02:06 decisions about the impact of a cost of living crisis. And of course, no Conservative really
02:11 wants to see council tax rises. Yes, you're right, there have been proposed increases
02:16 in the KCC budget, whilst I'm not a Kent County Councillor myself. But from my understanding,
02:21 both the Conservative administration and the opposition, Labour opposition, that proposed
02:26 an alternative budget was largely in alignment with what was being proposed, 90-95%, with
02:31 a small amount of differences on some of the choices that were made. So there seems to
02:35 be a broad political consensus on the need for an increase in the council tax to make
02:40 sure that we sustain public services into the future.
02:43 And I want to ask you, just before we come over to Medway, you're not a Kent County Councillor,
02:48 as you say, but obviously they provide an awful lot of services that the people in your
02:51 borough rely on. One of the strong hints that was given by Peter Oakford, the finance lead
02:56 at KCC, during that budget speech this week, was this idea that the waste recycling centres
03:03 and rural libraries in particular could be looked at across Kent as a place for making
03:08 savings in the coming year. Does that worry you?
03:10 Well, I'm not in the business of speculating and looking into the future. Obviously, I'd
03:17 be interested in dealing with facts. So we'll wait and see how the picture emerges. But
03:20 all I'd say is that when the proposal was consulted on the closure of the waste recycling
03:25 centre in Dartford, we listened to residents and that formed our direction. And the leader
03:31 of Dartford Council, Jeremy Carter, is very clear on his position. And where residents
03:35 tell us in Dartford what their feelings are on public services and their priorities, we
03:39 act on it. And that's what we do in Dartford. And I'd echo colleagues to do the same.
03:44 And Kate, this is a bit of a foreshadowing of what's to come in Medway. Their budget
03:48 is next Thursday. You expect that to be quite a painful experience?
03:52 I think it is. I do want to point out that the government have reduced the amount of
03:56 funding available to local councils. £85 million were given to Medway in 2010. We're
04:02 now down to £7 million every year. The actual amount that Medway Council spend is close
04:08 to half a billion or just over half a billion. And the cuts that we're seeing now are really
04:12 going to hurt people. And I kind of want to see a bit more of a creative way to think
04:16 about this. So can we fund the events that are being cancelled? My big concern for Medway
04:21 is that they're stopping the free swimming for under-16s and over-60s. I run a group
04:26 that looks at health and isolation. And for those people, they go to swimming quite regularly.
04:33 And the children not being able to learn to swim, especially those in lower paid households,
04:37 is going to be a serious issue. And it's not just that. We were talking just
04:40 a second before we came on air about the festivals. We were talking about the Dickens Festival
04:45 in the summer, the English Festival. I mean, summer Dickens. Who could have thought
04:48 that that would have been cancelled? And why was it not profitable in the first place?
04:52 The amount of people that come here, the amount of business that is generated, there has to
04:56 be a way in order to put these events on. But they are, if not profitable, at cost and
05:02 sustainable. So this is all to do with the challenges that
05:07 are facing local authorities. I want to focus in on Dartford, Danny, because I've talked
05:11 to you about KCC, which isn't entirely fair, I think, is it? Let's talk about Dartford
05:15 Council. You've made the choice to raise your part of the council tax, which accounts for
05:19 about 10% of the total bill, by 2% rather than the maximum of 3%. It's a saving of,
05:26 I think it accounts for about £2 per year for families across Dartford. What's your
05:31 thinking behind that, given that Michael Gove expected councils to raise it by the maximum
05:36 amount? Well, in Dartford, we're consistently taking
05:40 the approach that we inform our decisions based on residents' priorities. And we recognise
05:45 the pressures that people are up against. We are fortunate in Dartford that we run a
05:49 lean council. We run a council that's stable and is financially secure. And that means
05:55 we're able to make the long-term decisions that allow us, with the headroom, to keep
06:01 council tax as low as possible for residents who would benefit from it.
06:05 I mean, it is an interesting one. I've heard Jeremy Kite talk about this before. And he's
06:08 very proud of the fact, obviously, that this is the first time in quite a few years that
06:12 there's been any kind of a rise in Dartford. It's been frozen for quite a long time. But
06:16 people might look at that and think, well, for £2 a year, families aren't going to be
06:19 able to do that much with that money. But the council might be able to do quite a lot
06:22 with it. Well, we're in a fortunate position where
06:26 we have a growth agenda. And we benefit from having a vibrant local economy. And that allows
06:31 us to make some good decisions. I mean, we invest in the community. We put on public
06:36 events, like my colleague has just mentioned. And we run those in the interest of the community.
06:43 And that's what it's always been about for us. And along may it continue.
06:47 I think the problem with the growth element is that we are seeing growing people using
06:51 food banks, growing people not being able to afford to get taxis or bus fares to get
06:56 to work. So we've seen lots of growth, but in the wrong areas. There's a lot of money
07:01 being generated in this country, a lot of money. And we need to start thinking creatively
07:06 about how to utilise that for the residents. There might be a good moment there for us
07:10 to break off and hear from Neil Charlock of Gillingham Street Angels, who was talking
07:15 about exactly that, about the rise of food bank use. We can hear from him now.
07:19 When we started, we were probably looking after 20 people a night. We were going around
07:22 to where the actual street homeless were sitting on the floor. And now that's grown sometimes
07:27 and they get 200 people. And that's a sign of the times. It's bad. Going to a soup kitchen,
07:32 a food bank used to be a kind of a shameful thing. Now it's the new normal.
07:37 He describes food banks as a new normal.
07:40 It is. And I think there's still this conception that people go to food banks because they
07:44 want to save money elsewhere. If you're prepared to wait for an hour or two or three to get
07:49 food, is this really a choice that people are making? It's not. It's because they need
07:54 it. In my business that I run, we have a lot of people that rely on food banks and we're
08:01 very thankful that we can provide hot meals for them two, three times a week. But it's
08:06 not everyone is actually being reached.
08:08 Danny, I want to come to you about one specific thing that affects the Kent County Council
08:13 part of the county, not Medway, in exactly the same way, which is KCC's decision to stop
08:19 or proposal to stop free transport for children with special educational needs, young people
08:25 who are over 16. It's suggesting that families will have to pay £500 a year to get them
08:30 to and from school. That's always been free up to now. The families who are affected by
08:36 that are likely to be the kind of families that are already struggling, already using
08:39 services like food banks. Does it worry you that there is a disproportionate impact on
08:43 vulnerable people of all of this?
08:46 Well, of course, I mean, no human being wouldn't have some sympathy with what you're saying
08:54 there. And of course, these are all just conscious decisions that have to be made. I mean, where
08:58 it comes to the statutory obligation on services being provided rather by Kent County Council,
09:03 those have to be prioritised against discretionary spending. I don't know the specifics about
09:09 the school transport that you mentioned, but many of my constituents in Dartford benefit
09:12 from subsidised school transport. So these are the sorts of things we need to make conscious
09:18 decisions to prioritise. And I have a huge amount of sympathy with that argument. And
09:23 as I mentioned at the beginning, I'd encourage colleagues to look at all of these spending
09:26 options and make sure they're prioritising those who are most in need and most vulnerable
09:30 within society.
09:31 Danny, is there a flip side to Dartford's decision to keep council tax lower than it
09:36 could have done? Is there going to be fees and charges rises for Dartford residents that
09:41 might put more pressure on some of these families?
09:43 No, I don't believe so. The budget is obviously, I don't want to pre-empt the budget. We haven't
09:50 had our budget yet. It's coming up shortly. But as far as I'm aware, all of the decisions
09:57 are taken in conjunction and consultation with residents and we act in their interests.
10:04 And adding discretionary fees and charges wouldn't necessarily be in their interest.
10:08 So I don't believe that's the case, no.
10:11 Kate, are you worried about the most vulnerable people across Kent?
10:15 What you said about over 16s with disabilities and other challenges, educational needs. Disabled
10:23 people pay the price every single time. I know how expensive it is to buy things as
10:27 a disabled person. And to actually say that that parent then has to find that money to
10:34 support that child who will become an adult and can quite happily work in different industries.
10:40 It's just a backwards way of thinking.
10:43 So what can councils, I mean obviously we know that the reality is that there just isn't
10:46 an awful lot of money. What can councils do to try and keep those services down?
10:49 I think the council has to, all councils, including Conservative councils, need to be
10:54 on at the government about the fact that the income that has been received has been reduced
11:00 year on year. We keep seeing tax cuts coming for this and that and the other. But the reality
11:06 is no one is getting richer below the sort of 40 grand wage. Everything is getting more
11:12 expensive. Families with disabilities within the family or learning difficulties are paying
11:17 the price. Vulnerable people going to food banks are paying that price. We are seeing
11:22 the price being paid every day across the whole of Kent and in Medway. And we need some
11:28 actual action that makes people who have got the most at the top pay a small percentage
11:35 of their wealth. We need to consider income through savings and investments in the same
11:41 way that we use when we pay and go out to work for eight hours a day.
11:44 I'm very sorry I have to stop you there. It's time for a short break. When we come back
11:47 we'll discuss the impact of London's low emissions zone on Kent six months after it was imposed.
11:51 We'll see you soon.
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15:05 Welcome back to the Ken Politics show live on KMTV.
15:11 Next tonight, are you one of 17,000 motorists
15:14 who have been fined for driving across the border
15:16 into London since last August?
15:18 London Mayor Sadiq Khan says London's air has been cleaner
15:21 and the roads less congested
15:23 since the ultra-low emission zone was expanded.
15:26 But there's been a rise in hot air on Kent's borders too,
15:29 largely from business owners fuming about the £12.50 a day costs.
15:33 Here's how it's impacted businesses in Edenbridge.
15:36 In terms of delivery areas,
15:38 we've had to squash one route altogether up to Biggin Hill.
15:41 It's an extra £12.50 on delivery.
15:44 People aren't prepared to pay the money, to be honest.
15:47 It's almost like London, in a sense, they're out.
15:50 People in my trade don't all have the user-friendly vans.
15:54 So from that, obviously, if we are doing a kitchen in the area,
15:58 that's going to be every day we drive into the area,
16:01 then you've got that emission charge,
16:03 which then we have to pass on to the clients.
16:06 Mainly, I think it's impacted us
16:08 because it's really prohibitively expensive
16:12 to go to the wholesalers now in the car that I have to use for that.
16:16 Paying congestion charge and the ULEZ charge.
16:20 So that adds a lot onto the cost of purchasing your flowers.
16:25 Still with me is Kate Belmonti of Medway Greens
16:28 and Conservative Danny Nicklin from Dartford.
16:31 Welcome back.
16:32 Kate, we know the Green Party are obviously very keen
16:35 to have emissions reduced.
16:38 But you're hearing businesses there. Do you have some sympathy?
16:41 Massive sympathy. I'm a business owner myself.
16:44 I used to run a sign company, had a little van.
16:47 But the problem is that the air quality is so bad
16:50 that people are dying from it.
16:52 So we do need to clean the air up.
16:54 But that doesn't mean that we just say, "That's it."
16:57 We need to engage with business owners,
16:59 especially independent trades,
17:01 and actually look at scrappage schemes, look at exemptions.
17:04 We've got fantastic ANPR now,
17:06 so it can be quite easy for somebody to make an application for exemption
17:10 on specific grounds, whether it be turnover, number of employees,
17:13 and also look at actually creating a system of electric vans
17:18 that can be traded in with local business owners as a scheme.
17:22 It's a great opportunity, and that's what we need to see,
17:25 not just going out after the money.
17:27 Danny, this is happening obviously right in your backyard in Dartford.
17:30 It affects an awful lot of people there.
17:32 The London Mayor says it's cleaned up the air on London's boundary.
17:35 He says 17% to 24% cleaner than it was six months ago.
17:38 Do you agree that there's been benefits for Dartford?
17:41 We've been consistent that there shouldn't be taxation without representation,
17:47 and nobody in Dartford got a say on whether or not this policy was introduced,
17:52 but it directly affects them.
17:54 So that's the first thing.
17:56 Those going about their business places in Dartford, going into Cravefield,
17:59 for example, you're penalised, and it impacts.
18:02 My problem with it is it impacts those who can least afford it,
18:05 especially, as we mentioned earlier, around the cost of living.
18:08 Also, my worry is that this whole policy has really skewed the green debate,
18:13 and now when you talk about green issues to residents,
18:16 they automatically think it comes down to how much money can be squeezed from them,
18:21 and where does this go?
18:22 We talk about ULIS today, and we're going to talk about road pricing tomorrow.
18:26 So I agree with some of the things that my colleague said,
18:29 and we all want to see cleaner air,
18:31 but we need to make sure that there was proper scrappy schemes
18:35 and costs or measures in place to offset the damage against those
18:39 who are bearing the brunt, particularly small businesses in Dartford and elsewhere.
18:43 Since this was first proposed, obviously, Dartford Council have been very vocal about those issues.
18:48 Have you come any closer to getting any progress on a scrappage scheme for Kent motorists?
18:55 Again, that would be something that colleagues in Kent County Council
18:58 are probably having discussions with the GLA and the Mayor's Office.
19:02 I've not been party to those conversations.
19:04 I think it's fair and reasonable to say that people in Dartford and in Kent boroughs
19:10 that are impacted by this should have been able to access some of those scrappy schemes,
19:14 some of that financial support earlier on, and indeed make better advantage of it.
19:19 That should have been the case far earlier than it might be now.
19:23 Just before I come back to cake, Gareth Johnson, your MP,
19:27 he wants more government oversight of this.
19:29 Do you think that's the answer, that the London Mayor has exceeded his power in this way?
19:35 I commend Gareth for the amount of campaigning he's been doing on this issue,
19:40 because, again, he's really listening to the welfare local feed-in in Dartford on this issue.
19:45 Obviously, central government has a role in looking at where policies perhaps do –
19:50 directly elected mayors do perhaps exercise their duties and powers in ways that perhaps
19:55 wouldn't necessarily be acceptable to those who don't have a direct say.
19:59 I welcome the work he's doing and we'll wait and see what happens as a result.
20:02 This is something that happened. It happened six months ago.
20:05 Do you think it can be revisited at this point, or do you think what's done is done?
20:08 I think it should be revisited. I think the scheme as a whole should be evaluated.
20:12 Everything is always evolving.
20:14 I agree with Danny that local businesses and residents should be included in that debate,
20:19 but I think they also need to be shown the actual evidence of the air quality
20:25 and what that has effects on residents.
20:27 I'm losing my voice now.
20:30 It's OK. No, it's fine.
20:32 Well, Danny, I'll ask you – just taking a quick drink of water there –
20:35 I'll just ask you, you're running your own net zero consultation in Dartford now.
20:39 This has been a topic for councils across Kent recently, reflecting on their net zero commitments.
20:45 What are you expecting your consultation to lead to?
20:50 Well, in Dartford we've been taking this issue very seriously.
20:52 We've got a portfolio holder for climate change now.
20:55 We've got the Planet Dartford initiative bringing together across political members from all groups,
21:01 looking at how Dartford can be cleaner and greener.
21:04 So we take this issue very seriously.
21:06 Obviously, again, I don't want to prejudge what the consultation comes up with,
21:10 but I know that there's been a huge level of engagement from residents
21:12 and they're really keen to explore this issue and what we can do on a local level to improve the environment locally.
21:21 OK. It's OK. No, it's fine.
21:24 I'm hoping it's going to go.
21:27 But as I said there, a lot of councils across Kent are looking at their net zero commitments at the moment.
21:32 We've had Swale Council saying that they don't think they'll meet the commitments that they've made.
21:36 Tombridge and Moreland Council has said that.
21:38 I'm in quite a lucky position in so much as I've now got my voice completely going.
21:43 I'm now included in the community climate working group.
21:46 So I'm actually working with the council and other stakeholders like the Eco Hubs.
21:51 Oh, my gosh.
21:52 To make sure that they are meeting their commitments and give encouragement and advice along the way
21:58 and then share that with the community to make sure that everyone is on the journey.
22:02 It's not about costing money. It's about saving the planet.
22:05 And we can do that for less money, but we have to be a bit clever about that.
22:10 Let's move on there.
22:11 Finally, tonight, Rochester and Stroud's Kelly Tolhurst is one of more than 60 MPs
22:16 to call for the resignation of the House of Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle.
22:20 The speaker was accused of allowing Labour to hijack a debate on a ceasefire in Gaza,
22:24 which was being led by the SNP on Wednesday.
22:27 Here's a little reminder of what happened.
22:29 [crowd shouting]
22:42 Gareth, really rather extraordinary scenes in the House of Commons this week.
22:45 Lindsay Hoyle has since said that the reason that he did what he did was because he was aware
22:49 that a lot of MPs were coming under very intense pressure and intimidation from people over that issue.
22:55 And he wanted everyone to be able to have their fair say.
22:58 He's not wrong about that toxicity the politicians face, is he?
23:04 No, sadly not. And we do see it even locally. I've experienced it myself.
23:10 I think we're in an age at the minute where populism and polarisation has gotten a lot worse
23:16 than it was even just 15, 20 years ago.
23:20 Obviously, what happens in the chamber is seen live streamed by television to the public,
23:26 and they expect national politicians and indeed local politicians to adhere to the standards of public life
23:32 and to behave in a way that they would expect us to behave.
23:35 Obviously, local councillors, I can't really comment on what happens at the national level.
23:39 I'm not an MP. But all I would say is that on that particular issue, there's such a wealth of feeling on both sides.
23:46 And obviously, it's terrible what's going on in the Middle East.
23:48 But we do need to be careful in the language that we use, and we need to be mature in the debate.
23:53 I would just say on this issue that you can't turn on the radio and the television now
23:58 without a lot of the attention being focused on what's going on in the Middle East.
24:02 And certainly from a local perspective, we really need to be turning our attention to pressing local issues
24:07 and make sure resolving issues at home, as well as talking about what's going on abroad.
24:13 Gareth's saying there about – Danny's saying there about – sorry – saying about he's faced pressure
24:21 and MPs routinely face a lot of pressure.
24:24 There's a lot of talk about what tactics people are using now.
24:28 Just Stop Oil, obviously environmental campaigners were outside Keir Starmer's house at Christmas singing carols.
24:34 And they might see that as a harmless stunt.
24:36 His family might well see that as something quite aggressive and unwanted.
24:39 I would, and I completely understand the pressure that MPs are placed under,
24:44 and you don't want attacks coming at you.
24:47 But I also have to look at their behaviour.
24:50 If my children were to behave as they do in the House of Commons, I would not allow that in my house.
24:55 We wouldn't allow that in our boardrooms. We wouldn't allow that in our school governor meetings.
24:59 So why are they allowed to behave like that?
25:01 We talk about language. Why are they using the language that they do to describe
25:06 asylum seekers coming into this country from wars that we've helped to provide bombs for?
25:13 We are forgetting about Gaza.
25:15 You know, this only is the first time that Labour have come forward to actually say that they want a ceasefire.
25:20 The Greens have been saying we want a ceasefire from almost the very beginning.
25:24 And this isn't about who is right and who is wrong.
25:26 This is about people dying, lots of people dying,
25:30 and us saying that we want to find a political way of sorting this out without more deaths.
25:37 So I think what he did was against the rules. I can understand why he did it.
25:42 But I also think we need to look at ourselves and how we conduct ourselves in the public realm
25:47 and be a little bit more compassionate with humanity.
25:51 Gareth, should Conservative MPs be calling for...
25:54 Oh, Danny, sorry. Should Conservative MPs be calling for Sir Lindsay Hoyle to step down?
26:02 You keep getting me mixed up with Gareth Johnson.
26:04 I know, sorry. Yes, I'm doing.
26:07 Fair enough.
26:09 Look, the question, should Conservative MPs be calling for a ceasefire? Is that the question? Sorry.
26:14 Yeah, well, should MPs be calling for...
26:16 Should Kent's Conservative MPs be calling for Lindsay Hoyle to step down?
26:22 No, I don't think so. I think they should be focusing on what's going on locally, as I said.
26:28 There's a place for national debate in Westminster and certainly as local councillors,
26:34 I would personally think we should be focusing on local issues.
26:37 That's all we've got time for tonight. Thank you so much to my two guests for joining us.
26:40 Stay with us because Kentonite is coming up with all of today's news and we'll see you next week.
26:44 Thank you very much.
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