Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Sofia Akin, joined by Conservative leader Roger Gough from Kent County Council and Labour Leader Vince Maple from Medway council.
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00:00 Hello, happy new year and welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm Sophia Akin.
00:29 In the first week of 2024, the Prime Minister has already announced a general election is
00:34 likely to be called towards the latter end of the year. But what does this mean for us
00:38 here in Kent? We've also seen a number of local politicians announcing they'll be standing
00:42 in the upcoming elections. The latest confirmed candidate is Canterbury's Rosie Duffield.
00:47 We're also seeing local authorities facing struggles with Kent's two main local authorities,
00:52 Kent and Medway, under pressure to balance the books with fears of bankruptcy looming.
00:56 Tonight, I'm joined by Conservative Leader Roger Gough from Kent County Council and Labour
01:00 Leader Vince Mayport from Medway Council. Welcome to both of you and happy new year
01:03 to you both as well. So I wanted to start off by talking a little bit about these financial
01:08 pressures faced by both of your councils and I'm sure councils across the country. Well,
01:13 Vince, we'll start with you. We've seen Medway Council has a projected overspend of £12
01:18 million, something you're going to have to address in February when the budget is here.
01:23 So how are you tackling that? How are you – are you sure that you can balance the
01:26 books in that time? Well, happy new year, Sophia, and to all of
01:30 you. It's a really challenging time. We knew that on May 4th when we got the opportunity
01:34 to serve for the first time in more than two decades. We knew we were inheriting a very
01:40 big financial challenge. Of course, we inherited a £17 million gap. We've already managed
01:45 to get that down in the first few months to £12 million. There's more work to be done
01:49 and that's on this year's budget. Of course, on February 29th when we set a budget, that
01:54 will be for 2024-2025. And at the moment, as has been seen in the papers that have gone
01:59 through Cabinet, we've got a gap in the region of over £30 million to fill. That's really
02:04 challenging. So we're working closely with colleagues from the LGA, who is the kind of
02:07 sector leader for local government, and also with SIFA, who are the sector leader for finance
02:14 in local government. In both those cases, giving us advice and guidance and support,
02:18 we're receiving some of those reports in the next couple of weeks actually, and we'll
02:22 be listening very carefully to their recommendations as we look to do a very difficult set of challenging
02:27 circumstances bringing forward our first budget. It's not going to be easy and frankly, we
02:32 are going to have to take some difficult and unpopular decisions, as I suspect most councils
02:37 will be across the county and indeed across the country.
02:40 You mentioned that you've inherited this budget gap from the previous Conservative administration,
02:45 but for many residents, it's not about the politics, it's about how you're actually going
02:49 to overcome that budget gap. So where are some of those areas we could potentially see
02:53 cuts in?
02:54 Well, we've seen some of that already in this current financial year, again, closing the
02:59 current £17 million gap down to £12 million. We've talked about, for example, a £75,000
03:06 saving when it came to the Christmas lights. Again, a decision that no elected politician
03:11 would want to take, but the choice between that and making a couple of staff redundant,
03:16 I think most viewers would agree that actually taking that difficult decision was the right
03:20 thing to do. So we're getting on with trying to balance this year's budget that we're currently
03:24 re-inherited, but we're also working really hard to try and have a balanced budget for
03:30 when we set it in Medway on February 29th in just a few weeks' time. But I can say now,
03:36 look, to make that book balance, we're going to have to take some difficult decisions,
03:40 we know that. And again, actually councils up and down the country, whatever their political
03:45 persuasion, will have to do that. And part of the challenge for us and Roger and councils
03:49 everywhere is the cuts in services that we've seen already still don't balance the books
03:54 because we've seen in Medway's case a 91% cut in our revenue support grant. And for
04:00 a unitary authority, that funding is essential.
04:03 Let's bring Roger in. Kent County Council facing a bigger problem, a £37 million in-year
04:09 gap. So I guess I'd ask a similar question to you. How are you combating that? Quite
04:16 a bigger amount of money that you have to find by February as well. How are you combating
04:20 that?
04:21 It is. You've got to look at that in the context of we have a budget of over £1.3 billion.
04:26 So clearly you've got to look at it in relation to the overall size of our operations. It
04:31 is a severe challenge and I very much agree with Vince that this is something which councils
04:35 across the country face. So we've all got pressures in areas like adult social care,
04:40 the placement costs in children's social services, home to school transport and actually
04:47 one area that Vince and indeed our district colleagues have, we don't, is on housing
04:52 and temporary accommodation. So all of those are areas which are pressures for authorities
04:58 and we're experiencing that as are others.
05:01 Yes, we've got to both address what we have in-year. We've already been tightening
05:05 our spending since the summer. We're, if anything, going to be tightening it still
05:11 further in the closing months of the financial year to seek to bring ourselves in on balance.
05:17 Then as we look to the next year, we will have again severe pressures. Some of what
05:22 we need to do and we'll set this out in our budget will be one-off measures, but you
05:27 can only do that perhaps once, certainly on a very limited basis. So what we're also
05:34 setting out is that over time we'll be looking at a whole number of policy areas and this
05:39 will be, again to echo what Vince said, difficult decisions in policy areas that residents will
05:45 notice.
05:46 One of the biggest concerns is the number of potholes that are in Kent. It's a problem
05:51 across the country, but it's a particular problem in Kent and actually the most expensive
05:57 pothole across the UK was here in Kent, £4 million it's going to cost the council to
06:01 repair. It's actually risen, the number of potholes that we're seeing over the years.
06:06 So this is actually quite a dangerous problem that's impacting motorists. So how are we
06:10 going to see a change and hopefully see fewer potholes in the next years?
06:15 It is a serious problem. I would dispute, frankly, that the position in Kent is necessarily
06:19 any different from many other areas across the country. The particular case you referred
06:25 to is not quite as described. But nonetheless, we don't doubt for a second it's a very severe
06:29 problem.
06:30 How is it then? If that's not how it's described, what is the case?
06:33 Because that actually relates to a payment for it, not the cost of fixing a particular
06:38 pothole, which is how it sometimes seems to have been presented. So what we're saying
06:43 rather is that we've seen these pressures increase over time, particularly last year
06:50 when we saw a severe winter. So the number of pothole inquiries we faced went up by a
06:55 factor of three or four. And clearly, we've all seen what the weather has been like recently.
07:01 What we are doing is that we're seeking to set – and again, one of the great challenges
07:05 we've got is you never know what your funding is going to be, more than a maximum year at
07:11 a time. We're trying to set out a multi-year approach. Government did announce more money
07:15 for councils. Now, the immediate effect of that for us is not huge. It's about £4.5
07:21 million each year over the next year or so. And then it grows or should grow after that.
07:28 What we are taking the opportunity from that is to say we can at least set a multi-year
07:32 programme so we spend our money as effectively as we can to really make that impact and to
07:37 carry out – we carried out what we call a pothole blitz through last year, but inevitably
07:42 playing catch up on what had happened over that winter. We're seeking now to make that
07:47 a more structured process so we can address those problems. But highways budgets have
07:51 been under pressure. They've been under pressure for us. They've been under pressure,
07:54 again, as I say, for councils across the country.
07:57 Will we see more funding in that area then in the upcoming budget?
08:00 Well, we will benefit, as I say, from what government has announced. And we're seeking
08:05 to protect that money, but that's as much as we can do. Just to repeat, we are under
08:10 a situation where we have a £30-odd million pressure across our budget this year. We have
08:15 other equally severe pressures next year. So there isn't the scope to suddenly put
08:21 massive amounts of extra money into this, much as we would like to. But what we do know
08:25 is that we have actually a slightly clearer path on how we can look at things over the
08:30 next couple of years and use that to deploy the money as well as we can.
08:35 And I just want to ask you as well, one of these areas that will come into the budget
08:38 is council tax and something that residents have to pay for their services. This week
08:44 in Medway, we've seen bins not being collected for Medway residents, a service they pay for
08:51 through their council tax. Vince, will we see this service improving going forward?
08:56 I think we need to put the context into this. This is the Christmas period and effectively
09:00 we've had two days where one of our partners, Veolia in this case, were at capacity. So
09:06 they couldn't change any more waste for us, take it off of the trucks and get it into
09:10 the process. So this is not about fundamental change in our system. This is about Christmas
09:16 pressures. We're learning from this. We're speaking to Veolia to understand what exactly
09:21 has happened this week. But this is not about a change in the system. We've been really
09:25 clear that in Medway, we're a unitary authority, so we have responsibility for everything.
09:30 So this is not a pressure that Roger would have at KCC, but for the districts and boroughs,
09:34 it's real and genuine. We have a service I'm proud of. Medway North and Veolia are working
09:39 hard and actually on social media, lots of residents saying they really appreciate and
09:43 value the work that those teams were doing, not just during Christmas, but actually particularly
09:47 during COVID. They were there every single week, day in, day out, in a safe and appropriate
09:52 manner. So yes, it's disappointing that Veolia didn't have the capacity we anticipated, but
09:58 this is not a Medway bin crisis. This is a couple of days where the system hasn't worked
10:03 as well as it should have done. We're learning lessons from that and we'll make sure that
10:07 we take those lessons and for next year's Christmas, ensure that actually the communication
10:12 is clear. So if Veolia say to us, we cannot increase the capacity and actually we anticipate
10:19 there may be even more waste, well, we may need to think about the provision over the
10:23 Christmas period. But this is not about all 52 weeks. This is about effectively 10 days
10:28 of service.
10:30 Are there things that you can learn from each other? You're both setting your budgets at
10:33 the moment. I'm sure they're probably set by now. Are there things you can learn from
10:37 each other? Do you both have that in common? You may be from different parties.
10:41 Well, I think certainly yes. I mean, and actually one of the meetings that Roger and I chair
10:45 on an alternate basis is Kent Council Leaders Meeting as a whole. So even with our district
10:51 and borough colleagues, I think all of the rosettes are left at the door. And actually
10:55 we're looking at the challenges that face all councils across our county. And one of
11:01 those undoubtedly is budgets, whether it's KCC budget, Medway budget, or again, the districts
11:05 and boroughs were all under pressure because the resources are not there the way they should
11:10 be. And equally, actually, in some cases, the level of demand is going up a lot. So
11:16 local government, I think is really good at sharing best practice and working with your
11:20 nearby neighbour is always a good thing.
11:23 Just very quickly before our break, in a word from you both, how concerned are you about
11:27 potential bankruptcy?
11:29 At this stage, no, we are not facing that imminently. But we are under severe pressure
11:34 as our councils up and down the country.
11:36 And Vince, in the same amount of time...
11:38 I would agree with Roger. Look, every council is in the struggle at the moment. No financial
11:42 situation is clear for councils. But we're all working hard to make sure we've got those
11:46 balanced budgets.
11:47 Great. Thank you from you both. We'll catch up after the break. And we'll see you in just
11:52 a few minutes.
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15:09 >> Hello and welcome back to the Kent politics show live on KMTV.
15:14 Six months ago Kent County Council announced it would be striking a
15:18 devolution deal with the government. This would mean government powers
15:22 would be put into the hands of local authorities and also would impact
15:26 the future of the city. I'm joined by the leader of Medway Council and
15:30 the leader of Kent County Council, Vince Maple and Roger Gough. Thank you
15:34 both for joining us once again. I wanted to talk a little bit about
15:38 devolution and kind of what progress has been made. It seems to have gone
15:42 a little bit quiet since it was first announced in the summer time. So I
15:46 would like to start with you, Roger. What is the current position on
15:50 devolution? How is that progressing at the moment? >> It has been
15:54 striking a deal. We announced that we were putting in what is called an
15:58 expression of interest in a devolution deal. So we are certainly still very
16:02 committed to the idea that we want more devolved powers for, we say for
16:06 Kent in these circumstances it would inevitably mean I think the area of
16:10 if you like historic Kent, Kent and Medway. And that would be, we believe
16:14 hugely to the benefit of residents. Now the question of how you get there is
16:18 another matter. We put a lot of money into the devolution deal. We have
16:22 put in for what was called a level three deal because government has been
16:26 saying very much if you want those large scale powers and funding then you
16:30 have to go for a particular set of structures which includes the elected
16:34 mayor. That was the point of difference between us. I think we both agreed
16:38 that we would like to see those devolved powers. We were prepared to go for
16:42 that stage of that particular model. That's something which as I say we
16:46 differ and doubtless Vince will be able to speak to. But we have been
16:50 very clear in that expression of interest. I think we have said very clearly
16:54 that we want to work closely with Medway, with district and borough
16:58 colleagues, actually with partners across Kent because this has got to be
17:02 something that is not just done by one authority. And I think the first stage
17:06 is to establish what we believe will be good for Kent or good for Kent and
17:10 Medway in terms of getting those powers. Then I think we can worry about what
17:14 form it might take. So I think we have to be very clear about what we believe
17:18 will be good for Kent or good for Kent and Medway in terms of getting those
17:22 powers. Then I think we can worry about what form it might take. And clearly
17:26 one factor in this and we will probably come on to talk about it in a moment
17:30 anyway is that an election is due sometime this year. Both major parties
17:34 are committed to the concept of devolution but they may have somewhat
17:38 different ways of getting there. I think that inevitably shapes the debate
17:42 as well. So that's where we are at the moment. We put in the expression of
17:46 the government and I think we look at what our engagement is with ministers
17:50 of whatever government to seek to get the best deal for the county.
17:54 And it was the aspect of the directly elected mayor that you were disagreeing
17:58 about. Do you still stand, do you still want that aspect of devolution or is
18:02 it different now that you've kind of had this disagreement together?
18:06 Well, I think my personal view is that that would still be the ideal model
18:10 for two reasons. One is that if you are seeking to do a deal with the
18:14 current administration, that is if you like the entry ticket for getting
18:18 the really serious powers and money. The second is I think there is an
18:22 argument which may not quite involve a mayor but certainly involves what
18:26 they call a combined authority because my view is you want something that
18:30 can take some big strategic decisions that's not actually being eaten alive
18:34 by all those financial pressures that Vince and I were both talking about
18:38 that affect our respective authorities. And you probably have to have
18:42 some arrangement of that kind if two authorities were to be working
18:46 together in the way that Kent and Medway would under that. Now equally
18:50 I recognise we don't have agreement on that and we've got to see in effect
18:54 what happens nationally as well. So that's why I'm saying the big focus
18:58 at the moment should be on what do we actually want for Kent and Medway,
19:02 what can be the things that will make a difference to us and then I think
19:06 we go on to examine the questions of form.
19:08 Vince, what was it about a directly elected mayor that you didn't like?
19:12 Was it a concern that perhaps you didn't have the numbers to have a directly
19:16 elected mayor? Well let me say a couple of bits on this. Firstly it is worth
19:20 saying we can disagree agreeably, that's okay. In politics all too often,
19:24 particularly in this day and age, you kind of see the polemic views on
19:28 social media. Roger and I have a different view, we're not falling out,
19:32 we're sat on the same sofa, that's absolutely fine and we'll work through
19:36 it because ultimately I recognise, and Roger is right in saying,
19:40 both main political parties are absolutely committed to
19:44 the concept of devolution. I don't think, so we had an
19:48 election in May as people know, not one person said to me,
19:52 not one person said what we need is more additional
19:56 elected individuals for Medway because that elected mayor would of course go
20:00 across the whole county. So I'm very clear I want to see
20:04 all of the county of Kent benefit from devolution
20:08 particularly Medway but at this stage the offer from government
20:12 is a binary choice. If you can have these powers but
20:16 you can only have that pretty much at this stage if you want meaningful
20:20 powers with a directly elected mayor. What's going to happen from
20:24 now then? Because as it is it's gone quite quiet so as you know
20:28 members of the public don't really know what the deal is looking like. What happens now?
20:32 So my instinct, and I say this is only on instinct, is that
20:36 probably very little will happen on this between now and the general election
20:40 because actually the bandwidth of deluck, the government department need to look at it
20:44 frankly the bandwidth of both upper tier authorities
20:48 and the districts and boroughs and Roger is right to say actually all council
20:52 leaders need to have a view on this. Of course the statutory purpose
20:56 means that upper tier authorities, so Kent and Medway, have to have
21:00 some specific responsibilities in the process.
21:04 I think in all of those cases there's too much other stuff going on
21:08 not that this isn't an important debate and an important issue because
21:12 absolutely when it comes to things like skills and public transport I think
21:16 every resident across the county of Kent including us in
21:20 Medway need a better deal. The problem for me at the moment
21:24 is the binary choice saying to access those powers
21:28 finances, ability to pull the levers to make change
21:32 you've got to have the directly elected mayor. The Labour Party will offer
21:36 a more bespoke approach. Both Lisa Nandy previously
21:40 and Angela Rayner have been clear that an offer to an
21:44 area like Kent and Medway would be more bespoke so potentially allowing
21:48 things like a combined authority model without necessarily
21:52 needing a directly elected mayor. If I could just come in
21:56 on that I would say that I agree that it's likely to be slow
22:00 progress before an election for exactly the reasons you said. What I don't think
22:04 is that's not a reason for doing nothing because I think we do need to work to generate
22:08 what is it that will really be of benefit to Kent and Medway and it's in a number
22:12 of the areas we've discussed - economic development, infrastructure, skills and so on.
22:16 Then I think we're in a position to be able to put
22:20 something to ministers of whatever party once we are through the election.
22:24 So I think there's work to be done even if it's not going to be necessarily
22:28 very high profile immediately. Is there a chance of a devolution deal no longer
22:32 happening if you're not really liking the current deal that's on the table?
22:36 I would say actually at the moment that what's important is to recognise what's happening
22:40 here and now. So one of the things that lots of viewers probably aren't aware of
22:44 there's something called the South East Local Enterprise Partnership. That's ceasing
22:48 to exist later in the year and Kent and Medway will be working very closely
22:52 together. I have to say without the need for a directly elected Mayor
22:56 but to improve the financial and economic outcomes for all of our
23:00 collective residents. So there is partnership working happening already
23:04 and that involves the districts and boroughs. I know for Roger that's important, for me that's important.
23:08 Across party, those council leaders across our
23:12 county are critical to this. So those things are happening already
23:16 without the need necessarily for a directly elected Mayor. We don't have long left
23:20 and I want to briefly talk about the general election. The Prime Minister said that this week
23:24 that this year it's likely won an election will be called.
23:28 So I just wanted to talk a little bit about that. Now based on new constituency
23:32 boundaries, Labour could actually overturn some sizeable Tory
23:36 majorities even on those non-battleground seats.
23:40 They could win seats held on current boundaries, for example for
23:44 Damien Green's seat in Ashford. Roger is this a concern
23:48 for you to see Labour doing quite well in the polls at the moment
23:52 and potentially winning on those non-battleground seats? Well clearly, I'm
23:56 a Conservative, I will want to work for and support Conservative
24:00 MPs and candidates when the election time comes. I think above and beyond
24:04 that, we will have to see where we get to at the stage when we have
24:08 the election. The Prime Minister, I think with some carefully chosen
24:12 words, made it more likely than not that we will have an election
24:16 later in the year and we will have to see how the whole position, economic
24:20 and political, develops for that. But I'm a
24:24 Conservative, I will seek to support Conservative candidates that they are returned.
24:28 What seats are you relying on then in the election? Well I don't think it's
24:32 for me to rely on particular seats. Frankly nobody
24:36 in politics ever is well advised to treat
24:40 any seaters safe as such. So I think the reality
24:44 is Conservatives will seek to defend the seats that they have across
24:48 Kent and some of them will be more contested than others
24:52 but you don't frankly need the leader of a council to tell you that. Do you think
24:56 that Conservatives nationally can do it though, can win
25:00 again despite the polls? Well nothing is impossible. Clearly
25:04 we all see what the polls are and we see what the most
25:08 forecast of the most likely result is and that is
25:12 pretty evident. But we still have some way to go, particularly as I say
25:16 we have an election as late as October or November. We don't have long left now
25:20 Vince but I just wanted to ask you, as I just said the Labour are
25:24 doing quite well in the polls but are people in support of Labour or is it just perhaps they want
25:28 a change from the current government? I think it's a mixture of everything. We
25:32 saw it made previously, Labour winning some historic victories across
25:36 Kent including of course here in Medway. We've got some fantastic
25:40 parliamentary candidates selected across the county. Ultimately
25:44 to use that wonderful political cliche, there is only one poll that counts
25:48 I think we'll all start using this new phrase of a working assumption
25:52 I've got a working assumption I might win the lottery tonight, I probably won't
25:56 so yeah people might think it's the second half of the year but working assumptions
26:00 I presume can change which is why that interesting use of words was used
26:04 by the Prime Minister earlier this week. And just briefly as well, Starmer is often criticised for not
26:08 having enough policies. He's scaled back on environmental policy this week
26:12 really don't have long left but I just want to ask you, do you still think people back him
26:16 despite scaling back on policies? When we took him out in Gillingham during the local elections he was
26:20 well received. People pulled up in the vans and cars to talk to him
26:24 people want to see Keir Starmer as the next Prime Minister. Okay we will have
26:28 to stop it there for now. We'll see how the general election unravels
26:32 potentially spring, potentially the end of the year but thank you both for joining us and you'll be
26:36 sticking around for Kent tonight to talk a little bit more about this. Thank you very much.
26:40 That's all from us here at the Kent Politics Show. As I said we'll be back straight
26:44 after the break with all the latest news from across Kent. See you very soon.
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