Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Conservative Matt Boughton, the leader of Tonbridge and Malling Borough Council, and Liberal Democrat Dave Naghi, of Maidstone Borough Council.
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00:22 Welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV.
00:25 I'm Rob Bailey.
00:26 And over the next few days, Kent councils
00:28 will be tugging hard on their purse strings
00:30 as they set spending plans for the coming year.
00:33 Expect council tax rises and talk of budget gaps
00:36 as town halls struggle to balance their books.
00:39 But with the UK now in recession,
00:41 is there more pain ahead?
00:43 Here with their calculators at the ready
00:44 are Conservative Matt Borton, the leader of Tunbridge
00:46 and Morland Council, and Liberal Democrat Dave
00:49 Nargi of Maidstone Council.
00:50 Welcome.
00:51 Thank you for joining me.
00:53 Matt, we know what budgets normally are like.
00:55 They're big, grandstanding set pieces.
00:57 We'll see Jeremy Hunt in about a month's time
00:59 giving things away to the electorate,
01:00 trying to energise people.
01:02 It's not going to be quite like that at Tunbridge and Morland
01:05 Council when you set yours next week, is it?
01:07 No, it's not.
01:08 It's difficult times for local government at the moment.
01:10 One of the reasons is that funding for councils
01:14 is dictated to a large degree by some
01:16 of the national restrictions that you've got.
01:18 And of course, that limits the freedom and flexibility
01:21 that you have.
01:21 You've also got a very difficult landscape
01:23 with some of the costs that the council has to bear.
01:26 So in our instance, temporary accommodation
01:28 is one of those really key costs that we
01:30 need to get under control.
01:32 And as that eats up a greater percentage of your budget,
01:35 you've got to look towards different areas
01:37 to make the savings so that you do set a balanced budget.
01:40 Because rightly, every council has a legal obligation
01:43 to set a balanced budget.
01:44 And we'll come back to that maybe in a moment.
01:46 For now, both Maidstone and Tunbridge and Morland,
01:49 both setting balanced budgets for this year.
01:52 But Dave, it's difficult to do that, isn't it?
01:54 I mean, the main source of income for councils
01:56 is council tax.
01:57 You've got a cap on how much you can raise it by,
01:59 3% a year at your level of government.
02:01 Inflation is running at 4%.
02:04 In real terms, you've got less and less money all the time.
02:06 Well, Maidstone's been very lucky.
02:08 We've had some very fantastic financial officers
02:11 over the years, which is paying dividends now.
02:14 And they've been very good with the money.
02:16 And the budgets have been what they've set.
02:18 And they've been proven to be, as in most things with money,
02:21 it turned out to be they was correct.
02:22 We're not too bad off at the moment.
02:24 We're better off than some in the country, that's for sure.
02:27 So that's something I want to get into a little bit,
02:29 because both of your councils will be holding meetings
02:32 next week to talk about this year's budget
02:34 and a medium-term financial plan.
02:36 And the medium term is where things get a bit tricky,
02:38 isn't it?
02:39 In your case, Dave, we'll come to you first.
02:41 Maidstone Borough Council identifying
02:43 that it needs to make £900,000 of savings,
02:45 not in the coming year, but the year after,
02:47 in order to have a balanced budget.
02:49 £900,000 of savings in your budget.
02:52 That's going to mean some pretty painful cuts for people
02:54 who live in Maidstone, isn't it?
02:55 Well, I'm not very good with money.
02:57 But luckily, we have a financial director, Mark Green,
03:01 who's absolutely a wizard on it and got a proven record of when
03:04 he recommends something, it turns out to be correct.
03:07 And all councillors, whatever their colour,
03:10 need to have the consistency, because obviously, politicians
03:14 come and go.
03:15 And that's one thing Maidstone--
03:17 I must say we've got right over the years.
03:19 I'm not saying it's been run mainly
03:20 by Lib Dems over the years.
03:21 But we've been very lucky with our senior officers.
03:23 And that's where we're benefiting it now.
03:25 And the people of Maidstone are benefiting,
03:27 because you don't want, as councils, change parties
03:30 and stuff like that.
03:31 You need consistency on the money and kind of
03:34 rector spending while you're in, because we
03:36 have to have long-term plans.
03:37 And Mark Green, I've got to mention him,
03:40 because credit, when credit's due,
03:42 is very good with our finances.
03:44 So he will be looking at that.
03:46 And let me present it to councillors
03:47 to make the decisions at the end of the day.
03:50 1.7 million pounds worth of savings
03:52 in the medium term at Thornbridge and Moreland
03:54 Council, 305,000 of that coming up
03:56 in your next kind of spending area.
03:58 Where's that going to come from?
03:59 We've already looked at some of the different options that
04:02 are available to us.
04:03 We've looked at the different issues
04:06 that we know we've got coming in long term
04:08 and tried to estimate where that extra expenditure is
04:11 likely to come or where that extra income is
04:13 likely to come from.
04:14 We started to look at two key areas, our property
04:18 and what we call technical services parking as well.
04:21 So we did a consultation over Christmas
04:23 around parking charges, just in terms of looking,
04:27 have we got that right and consistent across the borough?
04:30 Is there a way in which we can change that to, yes, achieve
04:32 more income, but also to actually deal
04:34 with some of the parking problems that we've got?
04:36 Because that's a reasonable proportion of our budget.
04:40 Dave is right.
04:41 At Thornbridge and Moreland, we've
04:43 got some fantastic financial officers as well.
04:45 But ultimately, councillors are elected to take decisions.
04:48 And when you stand for election, you
04:50 know the financial situation of your authority.
04:53 So you do have to take some very tough decisions at times.
04:57 But ultimately, there isn't a money tree out there.
05:01 We know that it's difficult for us with our household budgets.
05:04 We know it's difficult for the government as well.
05:06 We know it's difficult in the private sector.
05:08 And the councils aren't immune from that.
05:10 And neither should they be either.
05:12 Parking is going to be one of the areas
05:14 that people will be looking very closely at,
05:16 because it's one of the ways that it directly affects people
05:18 out there in the pocket, isn't it?
05:19 In Canterbury, they're facing these kind of problems.
05:22 They're talking about some car parks being as much as £3.70
05:25 per hour in their town centre.
05:26 Yeah, well, it won't be like that in Thornbridge and Moreland,
05:28 I can assure you.
05:29 It's £1.10 at the moment.
05:30 You can't kill town centres because of the parking charges.
05:34 No, you can't.
05:34 But ultimately, you also need to be able,
05:37 where you've got the situations we've got in some of our
05:39 communities, where you've got only a small number of parking
05:42 spaces given the demand of the area,
05:44 you need to be able to achieve that turnover so that you get
05:47 different people being able to actually stop in the towns
05:50 and do their shopping and spend money and support local economy.
05:53 So that's why you have parking charges.
05:55 Are they set at the right level?
05:56 Well, who knows?
05:57 That's why we ask people the question.
05:59 We've got 4,000 responses to our consultation,
06:01 which is fantastic.
06:02 And that's why it's one of the areas,
06:04 just because of the amount of money that's generated through
06:06 it, that we're looking at, that actually we
06:08 could do two problems at the same time.
06:10 We could deal with the financial problem.
06:12 And also, we could deal with some
06:13 of the problems in these towns to encourage more people
06:15 to go and spend their money there.
06:18 Obviously, that's going to be a crucial thing.
06:20 We're talking about the UK entering a recession.
06:23 Businesses are going to be struggling.
06:24 People are going to have less money.
06:26 But you want to keep your town centres thriving,
06:28 a very difficult thing at the moment.
06:29 One of the big ways that councils do that
06:31 is by running events, isn't it?
06:33 And we've heard in Medway Council,
06:34 I had guests on last week talking about the fact
06:36 that Dickens Festival won't run this summer,
06:38 because there just isn't the money to run it.
06:41 I was wondering, David, as well as being a councillor,
06:43 as well as being the prospective parliamentary candidate
06:46 in Maidstone and Malling, you're also Mr River
06:48 Festival in Maidstone.
06:51 Is there a chance that big events like that
06:53 could be threatened with the financial struggles that
06:56 are coming up for councils?
06:57 No.
06:59 Well, luckily, I managed to find people who love Maidstone.
07:03 And last year, the last couple of years
07:04 have been very successful.
07:06 And they see how successful it is.
07:08 And it's run-- we don't make any money.
07:10 It's run by people that live in Maidstone
07:12 for the benefit of the people of Maidstone
07:14 and the businesses as well.
07:15 And it's the one time of the year
07:16 we do something with the river, our biggest asset.
07:20 And the council spent thousands of pounds
07:22 having professional people in to say that our biggest
07:25 asset is the river.
07:26 And at the moment, Ashby Drift Palace is sitting there.
07:31 But we still can use around there.
07:32 And we can get people down to the river.
07:34 And I'm going to bring it into the town.
07:36 And this year, we're doing the commemoration
07:38 for Normandy landings.
07:39 And I'm going to make that a big event.
07:41 Look, there it is.
07:43 There it is on screen now.
07:44 Absolutely.
07:44 So the river festival absolutely taking place this year.
07:47 Yeah, I've already secured most of the money.
07:49 But that's not-- and the council do help us.
07:52 We couldn't put it on without the council.
07:54 And KCC as well help us with road closures and stuff.
07:57 But I have a great team around me.
07:59 It's not just Mr. Wonderful here.
08:01 But they're dedicated from Maidstone for Maidstone.
08:04 And when it's a success, it's great, especially
08:07 Furman's, who's our biggest sponsor.
08:10 And they're doing a lot in the community.
08:12 And their contribution is what makes it happen.
08:15 And then other people come into line,
08:17 because it's the people that makes them
08:18 that basically pay for it.
08:20 Same thing in Sunbridge and Morning, really.
08:22 But just to the west of you in Sunbridge Wells,
08:24 they're really scaling back on their Christmas
08:26 events in the coming year.
08:27 You do big things in Sunbridge.
08:29 And we're growing.
08:30 I mean, you mentioned Sunbridge Wells and Maidstone--
08:32 Maidway, sorry-- as areas where they're declining.
08:35 Well, I'm not quite sure why, to be honest,
08:37 because we've noticed a huge growth of events in Sunbridge
08:39 and Morning, particularly in Sunbridge.
08:41 We've used the castles.
08:42 We've got the river as well.
08:43 But we've also got the castle in Sunbridge.
08:45 And that's really the centerpiece
08:46 for so many events that go on.
08:48 And a lot of ours are run like the River Festival in Maidstone
08:51 by volunteers or good community groups,
08:53 like the Rotary Club or the Lions Club, for example.
08:56 And some of them have become really, really popular
09:00 over time, whether they're the open-air cinemas,
09:02 or the summer car--
09:04 of all the fates, all of this sort of stuff.
09:06 We've had Sunbridge Pride that's come on board
09:08 in the last couple of years as well.
09:10 So we know that there's a real market there.
09:12 This year, we did--
09:13 for the first time, we did Christmas at the castle.
09:15 We did-- which was a series of illuminations
09:17 on a trail through Sunbridge Castle and the grounds as well.
09:20 That was hugely popular.
09:21 We had sort of tens of thousands of people
09:23 come through the doors.
09:25 And it was brilliant in terms of being
09:27 able to show off the town and the castle and the wide area.
09:30 And we'll see that again this year, you think?
09:31 Well, yeah, fingers crossed we will.
09:33 But it was successful sort of last year, or 2023.
09:37 So 2024 should be able to build on that.
09:40 But again, actually, events--
09:41 you're right.
09:42 They're a great place to-- a great opportunity
09:44 to celebrate the place.
09:45 And does the council benefit from that?
09:46 Absolutely, it does.
09:48 Well, this is all about growth, effectively, isn't it?
09:49 And it's the last thing I really wanted
09:50 to come to before we get to a break,
09:52 is about what prospects there are
09:55 for growth in the economies in Maidstone,
09:57 in Sunbridge, and Moorling.
09:58 As we learn that we're in a recession,
10:01 we heard last week the Innovation Park
10:02 at Medway, which is obviously on a bordering piece of land
10:05 to both of your councils.
10:07 It's been put on pause.
10:08 That should have been attracting 3,000 jobs and really big tech
10:11 investment.
10:12 Must have been a disappointment to hear that.
10:14 It was.
10:15 But again, I've got to question the administration at Medway
10:17 Council on this.
10:18 Because just down the hill in Sunbridge and Moorling,
10:21 we've got Panasonic Park in Larkfield,
10:24 which has successfully generated 3,500 jobs and is growing.
10:29 And there's a huge vote of confidence in the community.
10:33 And we've said to Medway Council throughout
10:35 that we're happy to support and help promote Innovation Park
10:38 Medway, because we recognise the wider benefit that it will bring.
10:42 Ultimately, the way to get growth in the economy
10:45 starts locally.
10:45 And something that we've done is we've
10:47 continued with our Green Business Grant scheme.
10:49 We've continued with our Shopfront Improvement scheme,
10:51 where we can just help match fund and give a few thousand
10:54 pounds here and there to help small local businesses
10:57 with that capital investment that they need to enable them
11:00 to stay rooted in the community.
11:02 So in our case, we're looking at--
11:03 we're giving grants if they're going to be sustainable.
11:05 We're giving grants to invest in their premises
11:09 through our Shopfront Improvement scheme.
11:11 And that way, you get people caring about the community,
11:13 running businesses, creating jobs,
11:15 and getting that growth in the economy, Rob,
11:17 that quite rightly you say we need.
11:20 Well, that's just about all we've
11:21 got time for in this half.
11:22 When we come back, we'll be discussing
11:25 whether pledges to hit net zero have any real meaning
11:28 after several councils in Kent have been forced to admit
11:31 that they can't meet them.
11:32 And we'll also dig into the latest election polls,
11:35 as another Kent senior MP reveals
11:37 they won't be on the ballot for the next general election,
11:40 of course, with very interesting by-election results overnight.
11:44 Stay with us.
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15:05 Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV.
15:11 Next tonight, Swale Council has admitted that it won't hit its target
15:15 to reach net zero for carbon emissions by 2025.
15:18 The Council made the pledge in 2019 after declaring a climate emergency,
15:23 a step also taken by Tunbridge and Morland Council that same year.
15:27 And it too has admitted this week that it has no clear pathway to meet
15:31 its net zero target by 2030. So is it all just virtue signalling?
15:35 Still here with me are the Conservative Tunbridge and Morland Council leader
15:39 Matt Borton and Liberal Democrat Dave Nargi from Maidstone.
15:42 Welcome back. Matt, do you regret setting that target?
15:45 No, not at all. Our target was an aspiration to be carbon neutral by 2030
15:49 and the report that we had this week set out what we need to do to get there,
15:53 which is basically we need to do some really big things that will make
15:57 a bigger impact than the smaller things, perhaps easier things that we've done so far.
16:01 And the biggest one for us is around property. Property is a huge emitter
16:05 of carbon in various ways and forms and that's helped inform our decision
16:10 that we're going to look to build a new carbon neutral state-of-the-art
16:13 leisure centre in Tunbridge in replacement of the Angel Centre,
16:17 which is one of the most poorly performing buildings we've got in the borough.
16:21 So that itself is obviously a big decision to make, but I think that shows
16:25 that our pathway forward is very clear in terms of tackling this,
16:29 tackling the big issues first and ultimately we're now at the point in which
16:33 we've got a tension perhaps between meeting this aspiration
16:37 and some of the other priorities of the council.
16:41 Dave, Maidstone has the same target, net zero by 2030. Can it meet it?
16:45 Well, I'm not psychic, but I think we would definitely try and meet it.
16:49 It's like all the targets, I don't know who sets them in the first place.
16:53 Well, you did when you were on the council.
16:55 And you try to do these things and hope you're going to reach it,
16:59 but as has been proven, most of them can't make it.
17:03 The things like we did as Lib Dems before Christmas last year,
17:07 we proposed a River Lens Taskforce because most of the River Lens is in the borough
17:12 and we could do something about that, but the Greens voted against that.
17:16 And it was the most practical thing I've ever seen that could work,
17:19 but the Greens voted out. They were more concerned about the river flowing,
17:22 but I had to point out that the river in Maidstone doesn't flow because it's on a lock.
17:26 So how does something flow? How could you make a legal right for something to flow like that?
17:30 But the River Lens Taskforce would have been perfect because we could have helped,
17:34 contributed, kept the sewage out of the water as much as we can
17:38 and done something positive. And that's all you can do as local councillors.
17:42 Try and do something within your borough that works.
17:44 One of the things when it was discussed at the council in Sunbridge and Moorland this week
17:49 was the acknowledgement that carbon emissions actually went up last year.
17:53 Why, I suppose?
17:55 I think because, as I said earlier, we've done the easiest steps that we can do.
18:00 I mean, obviously you should tackle them first.
18:02 And now we're left with some of our bigger missers.
18:05 I mentioned property waste is another example as well.
18:08 Actually, we had a big decision to take last year when we invested in a new fleet of waste collection vehicles
18:15 because we knew that the technology is not quite there to make them carbon neutral at the moment
18:19 using HVO fuel or some of the other mechanisms that you can as well.
18:24 So we had to say, well, actually, are we going to sign up to a new lease,
18:28 which would help deal with some of the collection problems we had,
18:31 but they might not be the vehicles that are the greenest in a few years' time.
18:37 And we said, no, we have to sort out those collection problems that we had first.
18:41 So it's a very, very challenging situation because you're right,
18:44 and that's why ours is an aspiration, because we recognise that we alone can't do this.
18:49 But that needs to be balanced against the other priorities of the council and of society as well,
18:55 because sometimes decisions are mutually exclusive.
18:58 Well, and not unrelated to this, you talk about priorities in society.
19:01 You've been waging war on littering and fly tipping this week, haven't you?
19:05 New higher fees. So the maximum fine now for littering is £500,
19:10 so much a morning, maximum fine for fly tipping £1,000.
19:15 It's interesting because officially speaking, throwing an apple core on the street is littering.
19:19 First offender would get a fine of £250 under your new rules.
19:22 Apple core down on the ground, someone's going to get fined £250.
19:25 There are no circumstances when littering is acceptable.
19:29 There are definitely no circumstances when fly tipping is acceptable.
19:33 That's why we've taken a very tough approach to this,
19:36 and we have noticed that by enforcing very rigidly against it,
19:42 we have seen some of our fly tipping rates reduce,
19:46 and some of our littering rates and littering reports that we get reduce as well.
19:51 Ultimately, this comes down to recognising that you need beautiful places to live,
19:56 and littering and fly tipping does not make a place beautiful at all,
20:00 and that's why we've increased the fines to their maximum level.
20:03 Maidstone Council is slightly behind that at the moment.
20:06 I think the default fine for littering at the moment there is £120,
20:10 so half what it is in Sunbridge and Morling. Should that change?
20:13 Well, we did something like this a few years ago,
20:16 and then people were actually dropping the rubbish, accidentally pulled something out of the pocket,
20:20 and we had people trying to issue a ticket, and it caused very bad scenes
20:25 because it was like, "Oh, quick, let's grab them," and they've accidentally dropped rubbish.
20:30 But we need to do something, but that didn't work in Maidstone.
20:33 We've had the same thing. We've had some instances where people were fined for feeding the ducks,
20:38 and sometimes you've got to hold your hand up and say, "We got it wrong. We got it wrong on that completely,"
20:42 and we rescinded the fines and apologised for it,
20:45 and we've offered extra training to the operatives who are out there giving the fines as well.
20:49 But ultimately, it's been really successful.
20:51 Last year, we had a situation where over 2,000 litter fines were given out, and rightly so as well,
20:58 because actually that's an awful lot of litter that's being left,
21:02 and we've got so many voluntary litter groups that go around all the different communities,
21:05 litter-picking, and doing their best to clean it up.
21:08 Well, they shouldn't actually have to do it.
21:09 When I was out a couple of weekends ago for West Peck and Wombles,
21:12 you go down, actually, sort of 500 yards down a rural road, and you're collecting bags full of litter.
21:18 I mean, that's not how it should be.
21:19 So, yes, everything that councils should do to prevent the amount of litter and fly-tipping in our community,
21:24 the council should do, and that's what's led our thinking on having this zero-tolerance approach.
21:30 Well, let's move on.
21:32 Finally tonight, Chatham and Ellesford MP Tracey Crouch has confirmed she will not be standing at the next general election.
21:38 Just two months ago, the former sports minister told this programme that she was committed to running again.
21:42 Well, she wasn't available to talk to us this week, but we did speak to Labour's Tris Osborne,
21:47 who was expecting to run against her at the next general election.
21:50 I think whoever is the nomination for Chatham and Ellesford will be the underdog,
21:55 and will have a significant challenge on their hands.
21:58 I think Chatham and Ellesford has in the past always gone with the country.
22:03 I think I've said that in my video, to be endorsed by the Labour membership.
22:07 And I feel that the country at the moment needs a Labour government.
22:12 So it will be up for people to look at the manifestos nearer the time,
22:15 and whoever the Conservative candidate is will need to make a pitch to them as well,
22:19 be that if they're local or they're from someone from outside.
22:22 So we will see who they select.
22:24 But I have no doubt whatsoever the Labour candidate is the underdog in this election,
22:29 and we have to engage with residents on the issues that matter to them.
22:34 Matt, of course, she's a local MP for your area.
22:37 What did you make of her decision to stand down?
22:39 I think a lot of people were very shocked by that, because Tracey's such a good advocate for her community.
22:44 I mean, just on Monday when the news broke, two hours later,
22:47 I had an email from her asking for more parking enforcement in Larkfield.
22:50 I mean, she's fantastic, absolutely fantastic, and made an impact not just locally, but nationally as well,
22:54 particularly with her work around fixed or spitting terminals and around the independent review of football,
22:59 which is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to change the game that we all love so much.
23:05 So very, very sad as well.
23:07 There was a degree of irony listening to Tristan Osborne there saying that this puts Labour as the front runners
23:12 for the new Chesham and Aylesford seats, given that it's not even a target seat for them.
23:16 I'm not quite sure where Tristan gets that statement from,
23:19 but I think that's just testament to the work that Tracey's done,
23:22 the fact that the Labour Party have admitted themselves that they don't think they can win the seat.
23:25 So I think at this moment, we just have to say thank you to Tracey,
23:28 because she's been absolutely fantastic for Chesham and Aylesford,
23:31 and she'll be incredibly hard to replace.
23:34 So you're going to be contesting a seat at the next general election.
23:37 It does feel increasingly like the cat is among the pigeons in terms of this election, doesn't it?
23:41 She had a big personal vote in Chesham and Aylesford that now is at very least up for contest,
23:47 and you're fighting a new seat, Maidstone and Morling, which won poll this week had going red,
23:53 which would be quite an extraordinary result in that part of the world.
23:57 What do you think? What do you expect?
23:59 Well, as regards Tracey, she was a proper working MP that cared about where she was.
24:05 She was actively always trying to improve the lives of people in her constituency,
24:10 as what an MP should be doing.
24:13 I campaigned for fixed odd betting terminals as well,
24:17 because that was... and she got up there and she stated her case.
24:21 And that's what you want from your MP, to fight where you live,
24:24 not just go with the flow like some of them do.
24:28 But, well, I would be like... I think I'm going to be like Maidstone United in Ipswich.
24:35 Explain how.
24:37 I just can't tell.
24:38 You can't tell?
24:39 There's nine wards in the centre of Maidstone,
24:42 and then the Morling bit is Aylesford Village, where Tracey used to be,
24:46 Ditton, and East Morland and Larkfield, where we're very strong.
24:50 It's not Larkfield.
24:51 Larkfield's gone, yeah, and then it's Kings Hill.
24:54 They've just carried on along that road.
24:56 So we have got... and as always, Lib Dems don't get national coverage.
25:01 The SNP get more than we do, and people can't vote for them in the country,
25:05 only the Scots.
25:06 But when the Lib Dems are strong locally, people see us out in the community
25:10 doing the best for them, and that's why we do well when there's the election on,
25:15 because we have to get fair coverage.
25:17 And people say, "Who's your leader?"
25:19 "Ed Davey," you know, but you don't see Ed Davey mentioned a lot,
25:22 not on the political things.
25:23 They usually go to SNP or Richard Tyson, who's mostly on the television
25:28 with Nigel Farage, and they've got their own channel,
25:30 so they can get out there and get the coverage, but not Lib Dems.
25:33 Speaking of which, we had Anne Whittacombe,
25:35 former Maidstone MP in Rochester this week,
25:37 banging the drum for Reform Party.
25:39 You worried about the disruptive influence they might have in Kent, Matt?
25:42 I like Anne.
25:43 I know Anne from her days as Maidstone and the Weald MP
25:46 and as a wonderful local MP herself.
25:50 Look, reform stands against a lot of things that are happening at the moment,
25:55 but the best way to achieve what reform wishes to do
25:59 is actually to vote Conservative, because I hear a lot about immigration,
26:02 a lot about stopping the boats.
26:03 Rishi Sunak's been very clear about his work towards that as well.
26:07 So, actually, we need a Conservative government,
26:09 which is far more likely than a Reform government,
26:12 to be able to deliver that.
26:14 So, yeah, what I say to reform supporters, quite simply,
26:17 is who do you want in 10 Downing Street to deliver the policies that you wish?
26:22 And every single one of them almost says to me,
26:24 I'd much rather have a Conservative government.
26:26 Watch this space for the general election later this year, isn't it?
26:29 Well, that's all we have time for today.
26:31 Thank you to both of my guests for coming in.
26:33 We'll be back next week.
26:34 There's more political news, analysis and opinion at Kent Online
26:38 under the Politics tab.
26:39 And don't miss their new political podcast too,
26:41 but stay with us because Kentonite is coming up with all today's news.
26:44 Good night.
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