Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Bartholomew Hall, joined by Tonbridge and Malling Borough Council's Robin Betts (Conservative), and Lee Athwal (Green)
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00:00I'm Bartholomew Hall.
00:06And on the week, the new Labour government set out its programme of activity and the
00:09new law proposals.
00:11We've seen the fallout from the assassination attempt of a US president and had a full day
00:16of global disruption today following a major IT outage.
00:20We're certainly back into business after that general election period, aren't we?
00:23Well joining me this evening to make sense of it all is Councillor Robin Betts, the Conservative
00:28Tambridge and Morling Borough Council Cabinet Member for Climate Change.
00:31And joining us virtually today is Councillor Lee Athwell, the leader of the Green Party
00:34group at that same council, Tambridge and Morling.
00:37Thank you both for joining me.
00:40First this evening, following Kent's new and returning MPs being finally sworn into Parliament
00:45via the medium of a monarch, the new government has set out what it intends to achieve as
00:49it begins its control of the Commons.
00:52Many of the policies haven't come as a surprise, such as the introduction of a new state-owned
00:56power company, which was in Labour's election manifesto.
01:00Others have been carried over from the last administration, such as a gradual ban on the
01:04sale of cigarettes, which was first announced by the now leader of the opposition, Rishi
01:08Sunak.
01:09Here's what the King's speech meant for us here in Kent.
01:12From a new state-owned energy supplier to rules about the future of Parliament.
01:17Today's King's speech may not have made any direct references to Kent, but the pledges
01:21of the new Labour government are sure to make impact here.
01:25Many were to be expected, such as reforms to planning procedures which Labour says will
01:29accelerate house building, a reference to the party's pledge to repurpose land on the
01:34Greenbelt.
01:35Ending no-fault evictions to give renters what they call greater rights and protections.
01:40Establish a new border security command, Labour's attempt to target criminal gangs behind small
01:45boat channel crossings.
01:47And as for transport, train operators are set to be brought into public ownership, whilst
01:52local councils are due to be given more control over local bus services.
01:57In total, 40 individual bills have been announced by the King, with a mixture of policies taken
02:02from Labour's manifesto and others that were brought in by the last Parliament.
02:07One of the policies that's been kept from the last government is the gradual ban on
02:10the sale of cigarettes.
02:12It was deeply divisive when it was first announced by Rishi Sunak, so here's what people in Gillingham
02:16think on it being kept.
02:19If they're allowed to smoke quite young and it reaches an older age, it's going to put
02:23more restraint on the NHS, so I think it is quite fair, yeah.
02:26No matter what the government does, they will always manage to get fags.
02:31It's fair because a lot more of them will probably live a lot longer than they would
02:36have without the ban.
02:37I think it's a bit stupid, I think, right, they're just going to find other ways to get
02:41them, it's just going to cause more harm really.
02:45It's not good for them, I don't think they should smoke, but you can't please the world.
02:52MPs will now debate over the policies announced in the King's speech and vote whether or not
02:56to approve it.
02:57But with a Labour majority of 174 MPs, it's highly unlikely to be thrown out.
03:03It doesn't mean, however, that the new government is under any less scrutiny.
03:07I don't think this King's speech is particularly that ambitious.
03:11A number of the items were already carryovers from the previous Sunak government, whether
03:15that be the smoking ban or indeed that be the football regulator, which actually was
03:20an idea conceived following the work of my great friend and former Member of Parliament
03:25for Chatham House for Dame Tracey Crouch.
03:27So I think whilst the King's speech had a lot of great words and great one-liners within
03:32it, I think we'll have to see whether or not it delivers the growth that Labour say they're
03:36going to for the wider country.
03:40That is the path of national renewal, the rebuilding of our country, and we take another
03:45step today.
03:46Thank you, Mr Speaker.
03:47So as the new Labour-controlled era of Parliament is officially underway, just how well today's
03:53announcements are delivered could be the first marker for how this government is remembered.
03:58Bartholomew Hall for KMTV.
04:00Well, let's discuss some of those issues now.
04:0440 individual bills announced by the King, so lots of different topics that we can go
04:08through.
04:09Let's just start with housing.
04:11It's an issue that's already kind of impacted Tunbridge and Morling Borough Council in some
04:15kind of way because it's had to halt its local plan, its progress of the local plan.
04:21Maybe understandably, Robin, we'll start with you.
04:24Your colleague, the leader of the council, Matt Boulton, says he's worried about the
04:28direction that Labour are taking with planning.
04:32What's your take on it?
04:33Well, I agree completely.
04:36We're so densely populated in our borough and indeed the whole of the south-east.
04:40And of course, we've had this announcement by the Labour government that they clearly
04:44want to build a lot more homes than we were expecting.
04:48And we're trying to put forward a local plan that deals with the enormity of homes that
04:53we're trying to manage even now.
04:55And so having even more homes put upon us is causing big issues for us.
05:01So, yes, inevitably pausing that plan until we know the detail of what Labour are going
05:06to come out with makes sense in my view.
05:10And I mean, 71% of Tunbridge and Morling land is part of that metropolitan greenbelt.
05:15Is there any of this at all that you kind of take away?
05:17Well, that's going to give us a bit more power, a bit more control here at a local level.
05:21Well, that's the key issue with Tunbridge and Morling is the percentage of greenbelt.
05:28I think from what we've seen so far, we've sort of tried to identify every piece of land
05:33that isn't within greenbelt.
05:35We tried to identify brownfield sites to allocate our site allocation for the local plan.
05:42Now if Labour put even more demand or even higher housing numbers, then inevitably that
05:47will encroach into greenbelt.
05:48There's no way around it.
05:50Our neighbouring authority, Sevenoaks, are even in a more worse position.
05:54So I think all of us collectively are very, very nervous about this situation and about
06:00loading up the south-east with even more homes.
06:03Lee, what's your take on it?
06:05Building on the greenbelt, it doesn't sound eco-friendly, but then the way that Labour
06:09have put it forward is that they want to kind of build on the so-called greybelt, so these
06:13unused spaces like car parks, for example.
06:16Well, I mean, obviously the greenbelt needs to be preserved as much as possible, if that
06:21makes absolute sense.
06:23But all wide outdoor spaces need to be looked at, really, and preserved as they can be.
06:30I think, for me, it's not so much about the numbers of the houses, it's about the type
06:35of housing that we need, and it's about the infrastructure.
06:40So I think it's really interesting that this bill is called the Building and Infrastructure
06:44Bill, because if it allows us to build good, new infrastructure, you know, all the things
06:51you need for a community to thrive, then it's not so bad having more houses.
06:56I mean, frankly, people need somewhere to live.
07:00People that live and work around the patch in Tunbridge and Morling need somewhere to
07:05live.
07:06And we need to just stop giving up all our most beautiful plots to enormous executive
07:11homes that don't meet any of the housing needs of the people that live in the borough, or
07:18maybe only a very tiny percentage of them.
07:21So I think decent, good quality, affordable social housing is what we need.
07:27And if the bill helps us to achieve that, because it allows us to move forward with
07:30the infrastructure that we need to support that, then that wouldn't be a bad thing.
07:34I mean, it does fill me with a bit of dread, I don't really want to have an even harder
07:38task.
07:39It has been a difficult task to find a way to provide the number of houses we've been
07:43asked to, and the work that's been done on that's been excellent.
07:47So I think it's good that we've paused, we had to.
07:49But we're in a good place because we've got a lot of a lot of work done.
07:53But I'm hoping it's more about detail and about the types of housing and about making
07:58the houses that we do build sustainable, having active travel plans, all that stuff.
08:03Yeah, I think the issue of infrastructure always comes up when we talk planning and
08:08planning reform.
08:09You mentioned there, Robin, about not really knowing what this is going to look like in
08:13practice.
08:14How would you like the bill to be conceived?
08:17Well, I mean, we were going ahead with our local plan.
08:21And of course, this is a bit of a shock to us.
08:24You know, we've got the obligation of around about 16,000 homes.
08:28And even that is going to be a tough, tough call.
08:31I just feel that there was this levelling up bill trying to share population around
08:38the country and encourage growth in other areas of the country.
08:43I just feel that the South East has grown too much.
08:47And I completely agree with Lee.
08:49We do need to provide homes for our own families that live in our borough and indeed Kent.
08:56But there is a certain housing need that will facilitate that.
08:58But going over and above that, you know, I just think encouragement of sharing this housing
09:05need out and encouraging other areas of the country to share in growth is a way forward
09:10and not just looking at history of housing need and then just piling more and more into
09:15the South East.
09:16In terms of infrastructure, I completely agree.
09:19The infrastructure is key for this.
09:22But that said, you know, building more roads, wider roads.
09:26We've seen the M20 widened using the hard lane, hard shoulders.
09:31It's all putting pressure on our networks and it's taking more and more of our countryside
09:35away.
09:37I just think share out that growth and levelling up as such across the country would be a better
09:43way forward with this bill.
09:44There's obviously lots of topics during the King speech that were mentioned.
09:48I wanted to move on to transport quickly before we've got a break here.
09:52Return to the 1970s almost with this renationalising of the rail companies.
09:58Just quickly, what do you both think of that?
10:01Lee, I suppose transport and transport moving away from cars, maybe that is something that
10:06the Green Party would be in favour of moving towards a more improved rail system in the
10:11future.
10:12What would you make of renationalising?
10:13Well, fundamentally, I want really, really good public transport for everyone to be able
10:21to use.
10:22I want everyone to feel it's easy and cheap and convenient to jump on trains and buses
10:26and cycle places.
10:28The reason I'm happy about renationalisation is because it gives us more of a measure of
10:32control.
10:33It also means that huge profits won't be being skimmed off the top for shareholders, potentially
10:39in lots of other different countries.
10:41If you go into rail in France, they have a good old laugh about the English and say,
10:46oh yeah, our fares are really cheap because we make loads of money in England.
10:50I just think if there's enough money to go around to make shareholders really, really
10:54happy, there must be enough money to run the service well.
10:57Well, if it leads to cheaper fares, there's lots of commuters in Tunbridge.
11:00Robert, that sounds better, surely?
11:02Well, yes, certainly it would do, wouldn't it?
11:05Cheaper fares.
11:06I'm probably, with my climate change hat on, I'm probably looking at more of the climate
11:10change aspect.
11:12Obviously, railways generally run on electricity and we're very good at producing renewable
11:18electricity for the country, one of the highest in Europe.
11:21And obviously, the Labour government are expressing an interest even further in that.
11:25So we've got to go on to a break now.
11:27I'm so sorry to interrupt you.
11:28Plenty more coming after this short break.
14:32Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV.
14:46Still with me today is Councillor Leith Wall, leader of the Green Party Group at Tunbridge
14:51and Morling Borough Council, and Robin Betts, the Conservative Cabinet Member for Climate
14:54Change at the same council.
14:56Thank you very much for you both still being here.
14:58Now, a public meeting is due to be held next week where Tunbridge and Morling Borough Council
15:02leader Matt Bolton is due to meet with residents who have been protesting against the council's
15:07proposal to make people pay to park on Sundays.
15:10The proposal will also extend evening parking charges until 8pm.
15:14And this has been a highly contentious issue.
15:18And of course, we've got two Tunbridge and Morling Borough councillors here.
15:21So I wanted to start with yourself, Leith, because you were at that rally that was held
15:25at the start of June.
15:27Talk me through why you decided to join that.
15:30Sure.
15:31So this is a really good example where it's really difficult to be both the borough councillor
15:36and to represent your ward.
15:38So at the borough level, I completely understand that we have to make savings and raise money
15:43and all of those things.
15:45I completely understand that.
15:47But given that I represent a ward that is three miles away from the centre of town,
15:53I think it's really punitive to the people that live there.
15:57They don't have an option to cycle into town.
16:00They probably don't have a very good option to walk in.
16:03Certainly not.
16:04The demographic is often a little older.
16:07The bus service is erratic and doesn't run on a Sunday from where I live and where most
16:12of my ward is.
16:13So it feels very different for my ward.
16:17Our little GP surgery closed recently, so we now have to travel into the centre of town.
16:23So I just was hoping for something a bit more pragmatic.
16:26I also worry about people that run things like football clubs on a Sunday morning.
16:31They're huge in Tunbridge.
16:32You only have to walk around and you see the park and you see hundreds of people.
16:36And all of those officials and coaches are volunteers, and now it's going to cost them
16:41a bunch of money to go and do that volunteering.
16:43So I was suggesting a one pound flat fee, one pound for four hours perhaps, which would
16:48let people still go into town without detrimenting them too much and making people potentially
16:54having to make decisions to stop doing things.
16:56So that was what I was suggesting and I suggested in the chamber.
17:00And that's why I felt I had to represent the people that elected me.
17:04And Robin, it's interesting because the council is not hiding behind anything here.
17:09It's clear that this is to help funding of the council.
17:13Last year, the council made three million pounds in its revenue from parking charges.
17:19What is the leader going to say to people next week?
17:23I have no idea, but, you know, at the end of the day, we're looking at how we run our
17:28council and we're trying to run it more efficiently, of course.
17:32And by applying these charges across car parks, what we're trying to do is be fair across
17:37the whole borough.
17:39Now applying it to Sundays, the issues we have is that almost every authority around
17:44us in Kent is charging for Sundays.
17:48They are charging for evenings.
17:50But what we're looking at here, we're not looking at massive fees for that charging.
17:55And also, if you take into account the cost of running car parks, which is significant,
18:00then you can understand why we're looking at every avenue possible to maintain services
18:05for Tornado Morning residents.
18:07But at the same time, the surplus that does come out of car parking is still used for
18:12good services for our residents.
18:15And one of those is where we're trying to do our best to decarbonise, for instance,
18:18our leisure centres.
18:20So they're the very surpluses that come out of car parking are going into supplementing
18:26or supporting the really important services for our residents.
18:31And so, you know, it's a difficult one, not an easy one, but, you know, we're under those
18:37financial pressures and we're trying to balance it in every way we can, really.
18:42And Lee, I mentioned there that £3 million that was made last financial year.
18:47That puts Tunbridge and Morling Borough Council in the top six of all of Kent's councils.
18:52At the top is Canterbury, and as you mentioned, many other councils do charge on a Sunday,
18:56charging every day of the week.
18:58Is it not fair to bring it in line with the rest of the county?
19:00It might be if we were making it exactly the same across the whole borough, but we're not.
19:06So there are many parts of Tunbridge and Morling where you can visit your doctor without having
19:10to pay to park.
19:12And now there are lots more places where you can't.
19:16And I just feel that saying that this is about equalising things is a little disingenuous
19:23because it's not.
19:24It's not the same.
19:25It's different in different parts of the borough, and this has made it more different.
19:30And I just think even talking about things like decarbonising leisure centres, I mean,
19:34our leisure centre, particularly in Tunbridge, I'm guessing Larkfield probably do the same,
19:39actually put their programmes on so that people can use the leisure centre at a time when
19:43parking's free.
19:45And I just think these borough-run leisure centres are cheaper than all the privately
19:51run ones.
19:52So hopefully more people can access them.
19:53And this is just another barrier.
19:55So, yeah, I get it.
19:58It's really hard.
19:59But to me, a bad decision.
20:02Before we move on to another topic, I'll let you come back on that disingenuous, Robin.
20:05Well, naturally, I'll disagree with that.
20:06But the problem is we've got the Green Party leader here, and their focus was trying to
20:11discourage transport in cars that clearly are emitting pollution.
20:17And so what are we getting from the Green Party?
20:20We're trying to tackle pollution with decarbonising leisure centres.
20:25And now they're encouraging, they wanted to discourage cars coming into Tunbridge, but
20:29now on the same token, they still want to encourage cars.
20:32So it's a difficult, I know it's a difficult one for Lee to work out, and it's a difficult
20:36one for us to work out.
20:37So another one to probably debate at another time.
20:41It does seem like it's one this debate is going to carry on, and we'll see, obviously,
20:45what happens after that meeting next week.
20:47We're going to move on to another topic now, next tonight.
20:50Speculation is mounting that the MP for Tunbridge and Malling is preparing to launch a second
20:55bid to be the new leader of the Conservative Party.
20:58Tom Tugendhat is yet to formally declare his intentions to run as what would be now the
21:02leader of the opposition in the Commons, and has chosen not to say anything publicly on
21:07the matter.
21:08It comes as a leadership battle is now due to be held after Rishi Sunak announced he
21:11would be stepping down two weeks ago today.
21:14Mr Tugendhat, of course, previously put himself forward as leadership candidate when Boris
21:18Johnson stepped down in June 2022.
21:21While we have a Conservative councillor with us here, what do you think of your colleague
21:25Tom Tugendhat being the next leader?
21:27Well, he is the, he is our MP, clearly a local man.
21:31I think he'd be a really good candidate for the job, to be fair.
21:36With his military background, he's certainly got leadership qualities.
21:40And I like the idea that he's outside of that original cabinet, where clearly things weren't
21:45going as well as what we'd hoped.
21:47So I would look at Tom as a bit of a fresh face, fresh start to politics for the Conservatives.
21:54And certainly with his, like I say, with his military background, we need a strong leader
21:58here to pull the party back together again.
22:01And I can see that Tom certainly has those qualities, and he certainly has the qualities
22:05of looking after his community in Tunbridge and Morling, that's for sure.
22:09So I reckon he'd be a really good leader.
22:11Lee, obviously a Green councillor, not the same party as Tom Tugendhat.
22:16What do you think about your local MP there becoming leader of the opposition?
22:21For me, it's all about policies.
22:24And when I look at individuals, I tend to look at their voting records.
22:27So I judge people very much on how they voted in Parliament till now, on the matters that
22:33are important to me.
22:35So I'm not too worried about the sort of cult of celebrity or who's nice or who thinks
22:41lovely or looks good on the telly, doesn't bother me too much.
22:44It's about the policies of the party.
22:46And when I look at individuals, it's about their voting record, and I'll leave it there.
22:51I think it's interesting, actually, about the Greens in Parliament at the moment.
22:54You've got the most MPs that you've ever had in the party in the Commons.
22:59What would you expect now from the Green party that maybe they couldn't deliver when they
23:04just had just the one or two?
23:07Well, it's always going to be hard to deliver when there's only a few of you.
23:11But I think what we can do is we continue to be a voice for the things that we think
23:15are important.
23:17We can continue, I can't say the word continue, sorry.
23:20We can continue to pressure for the things that we think matter in terms of climate
23:25change, active travel, social justice, looking across the planet.
23:30So we can just continue to pressure, maybe influence and hopefully build for the future.
23:37This was a similar question, but kind of flipped around for you, Robin.
23:41Obviously, in opposition now, but the majority of Labour is much higher than what the
23:46Conservatives had. So with that kind of weaker opposition, if you like, what would you
23:50expect from the Conservatives in Parliament?
23:52Well, I would like to see, yes, clearly they are in a weak position now, but I would say
23:57with someone like Tom leading that party, then I see him as a good opposition leader
24:03to challenge Labour.
24:05And certainly, you know, with my climate change hat on, I welcome Lee potentially
24:12challenging us. I don't see it challenging us because we're going ahead so far with
24:16all the good climate change stuff in Tunbridge and Morling.
24:19So, so, yeah, I see Tom as a good leader to lead the opposition and certainly
24:24challenge Labour.
24:26Well, we're going to move on to one final topic today.
24:29Following last week's shocking scenes from the US where former President Donald Trump
24:33was shot during a campaign rally, concerns have been raised back here about the safety
24:37of politicians and the risk of political violence in the UK.
24:41Clearly, in this country, we're not talking about assassination attempts, but I was just
24:46wondering, as to local politicians, do you ever find yourselves worrying for maybe your
24:51colleagues or for yourselves when you're having to engage with the public on a daily
24:55basis?
24:58I've never been, well, I've never been particularly worried.
25:01We obviously, we're trying to engage with our residents and sometimes they may not agree
25:07with the way we're going forward.
25:09But generally, I've always received a very welcoming and, you know, people give their
25:13opinions, but I've never felt threatened in any way.
25:17But, you know, in terms of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, then, you know,
25:23he had a lucky escape, big time lucky escape there.
25:26And whatever we think about Donald Trump, and I know there are certain strong views
25:30about his leadership qualities, in some ways, it's almost strengthened his leading role
25:38now for the States, which is quite ironic, really.
25:42But, you know, it just demonstrates on a knife edge how politicians are, you know, any time
25:47it could go massively wrong.
25:49So it is a worry.
25:50And Lee, would you agree with that stance?
25:53Oh, gosh, absolutely.
25:54I mean, I've got nothing but admiration for anyone that puts themselves up for public
25:58office.
26:00Same thing, luckily, I've never felt threatened or in any danger.
26:04But I know I have phoned a ward colleague, actually, after I saw some stuff on social
26:09media that was a bit of a worry to me.
26:12So it's just one of those things in the back of your mind, obviously, never would condone
26:16that kind of behaviour.
26:17We need to allow people to do their jobs and respect them.
26:21Absolutely. I can agree more with that.
26:23Thank you very much for joining us and thank you for watching.
26:25We'll be back next week.