Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00🎵
00:00:14🎵
00:00:30Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:32My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:36I also co-host the Down the Stretch radio show on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:40Hi, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:44I've launched into my Breeders' Cup, my never-ending Breeders' Cup prep
00:00:49while simultaneously trying to figure out all my fantasy football injuries.
00:00:54And I'm sure there's a lot, Randy.
00:00:57There are a lot.
00:00:58I really am. There are a lot. They're falling left, right and center.
00:01:01It's like the week leading up to Breeders' Cup or Derby.
00:01:03Everyone falls by the wayside.
00:01:05That's what's happening with fantasy football right now.
00:01:08I'm Zoe Cameron with First Racing and XBTV.
00:01:11I'm back in Lexington.
00:01:13I'm here for the Godolphin Awards wishing Katie Petruniak,
00:01:17our co-host, co-producer, co-everything here at the TDN, the best of luck.
00:01:22She's up for an award.
00:01:23We'll find out just in a few hours if she wins or not.
00:01:26And also Irma Scott, who's up for dedication to racing from the Bill Mott Barn.
00:01:30If you've ever been to Bill Mott's Barn, you'll know all about Irma Scott.
00:01:35So lots going on here in Lexington, including a good few visits to a few stud farms.
00:01:40I went to see Intermischief yesterday, guys.
00:01:42And Forte. I've not seen Forte in a long, long time.
00:01:47And he is stunning over there at Spendthrift Farm.
00:01:51So if you get a shot, go take another look at Forte.
00:01:54Beautiful looking horse, son of Ireland's.
00:01:57And I want to remind you that this week and every week we're brought to you by our good friends at Keeneland.
00:02:01Speaking of Keeneland, they had the only grade one race of the weekend last week.
00:02:05And Queen Elizabeth II always comes up pretty tough.
00:02:10She feels pretty.
00:02:11It wins the race by six lengths.
00:02:14Very, very good performance.
00:02:16She's going to go next, it looks like, to the American Oaks.
00:02:19This race usually doesn't get horses to come out of it to run in the Breeders' Cup because they're all three-year-olds.
00:02:25And a lot of trainers don't want to run three-year-olds against older horses in the fall of the year.
00:02:30But, you know, trained by the right people, owned by the right people.
00:02:34Arnaud Delacour, good looking win.
00:02:36I'm sure she'll be a major factor in the Philly Mayor Turf Division next year.
00:02:41Yeah, it's an interesting thing.
00:02:43I mean, Zoe might have an interesting opinion about this.
00:02:46I don't really know why.
00:02:48But when you look at the Breeders' Cup statistics for the Philly and Mayor Turf,
00:02:54and you look at the American three-year-old Phillies who try to face the older Phillies and Mayors in the Breeders' Cup,
00:03:01it's a disaster.
00:03:03I mean, I don't have it in front of me right now.
00:03:06For a long time, it was like, you know, 0 for 80 or 0 for 70, something terrible.
00:03:11But yet the Europeans bring three-year-old Phillies over here all the time, and they can dominate.
00:03:18So I don't know what the difference is between the European three-year-old Phillies against the olders and the American three-year-old Phillies.
00:03:24But there is a tangible, huge difference in outcomes when the Americans try to go from the QE to, let's say, to the Breeders' Cup.
00:03:36I'm going to say there was.
00:03:39And because of that factoid that you just brought in, Randy, it scared anyone off from actually doing it nowadays.
00:03:48Most of the really good three-year-olds that we have this year and the past few years are all European-bred, right?
00:03:57But because they're 0 for so much the last few years, a decade ago in the Breeders' Cup, people are scared to do it.
00:04:05I firmly believe now if you have a filly like She Feels Pretty, she went forward.
00:04:10She'd be OK because her performance was dazzling.
00:04:14I can't believe she only won by six lengths.
00:04:16I thought her performance was one for the ages on Saturday at Keeneland.
00:04:22Johnny V wrote it to perfection, and she just finished like a freight train.
00:04:26First-time blinkers.
00:04:27She settled behind horses.
00:04:29She was amazing.
00:04:30So I firmly believe that, yes, those stats do hold up.
00:04:34But the three-year-old fillies nowadays that we're seeing are so much better than they were a decade ago because we're having so many Euro imports come in that they can compete and they should compete.
00:04:46But they just haven't been competing because of those facts.
00:04:49We're going to talk a little bit more about this subject because we're going to get into some ideas that Terry Finley has.
00:04:55But Carson's run, leading three-year-old male on the turf, nobody even in his ballpark.
00:05:03I asked Terry if they're going to run in the Breeders' Cup.
00:05:05Oh, no.
00:05:06He said the horse is too slow.
00:05:07Got to wait until next year, and maybe the horse will improve on the figures, and then they would be a lot more tempted to put him in there.
00:05:14So the other thing about this week, and we could talk about this virtually any week, there's too much racing out there.
00:05:20There's too much stakes racing out there.
00:05:23And on the same day of the race at Keeneland, the Queen Elizabeth, you had a grade two – where the hell is the name of this race?
00:05:34A Sands Point run at Aqueduct.
00:05:37Grade two race got seven runners, and that's not that bad this day and age.
00:05:42Not a single one was a graded stakes winner.
00:05:44Only two were stakes winners.
00:05:46Now, meanwhile, the QE2 is 750.
00:05:49Grade one got 10 runners.
00:05:53So by running the race at Aqueduct, you're basically saying the conditions of the race are for horses that aren't quite good enough to run in the Queen Elizabeth second stakes.
00:06:04I don't know how we solve this problem, but you can't have two races for the exact same group of horses run on the same day, but we do all the time.
00:06:13Zoe, what do you think?
00:06:15I think you're right.
00:06:17There's too much racing, and we've got less horses when you consider, again, a decade ago, the foal crop and the stakes races.
00:06:25And, you know, a couple weeks ago with the five grade two, three, one dirt races for older males, if they'd consolidated them to two, one on the east, one on the west, it would have been a much better day of racing.
00:06:38So I'm in agreement with you.
00:06:41I just wanted Randy to reiterate.
00:06:43Did you think I had a point when I was saying that the three year olds now are a little better than they were?
00:06:49I mean, I think it's I think it's based on individuals.
00:06:53I mean, she feels pretty obviously looks like she could compete against the older fillies and mares.
00:06:59A lot of years to my eye, they look like they don't.
00:07:03But it seems like every year, the three year old fillies in Europe are good enough.
00:07:09Their best three year old fillies to come over here and compete successfully.
00:07:13I just can't figure out other than the fact that European turf forces are in general better than ours in most in most situations.
00:07:21I just can't figure out why there's even more of a difference between the three year olds.
00:07:25Seemingly, I mean, look at city of Troy and look at our best three year old Carson's run.
00:07:31I mean, it's night and day on paper as far as how fast they can run right now.
00:07:35So that I can't figure out.
00:07:39But as far as the problem Bill's talking about, yeah, he's absolutely right.
00:07:45You were right five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
00:07:50And we've been talking about that for this particular problem for at least that long.
00:07:57I mean, it's worse now than it used to be because of what you pointed out, Zoe, because of the full crop.
00:08:02I mean, the overall pool of top class racehorses is shrinking everywhere.
00:08:07So it means short, shorter fields than we had 20 or 30 years ago.
00:08:12But it's just the way it's one of those problems without a solvable solution.
00:08:21I think other than the old thing that we always fall back on, racing needs a commissioner.
00:08:26Racing needs a board like they have in Europe to set stake schedules to where you don't get this kind of thing.
00:08:33Because Keeneland is going to put the QE2 where they think it works best for them.
00:08:41Naira is going to put the Sands Point where they think the Sands Point works best in their stake schedule.
00:08:48They're both going to be looking inward at what's best for themselves and not for what's best for the sport as a whole.
00:08:55And that's you get that same thing times 100 in every racing jurisdiction.
00:09:01I just don't know how that can be solved.
00:09:03You know, this is kind of draconian.
00:09:05But one thing that I bring up is that at least especially at Naira and it's nice to have such a full stake schedule.
00:09:12But if you just got rid of a race like the Sands Point, would anybody care?
00:09:16Would it make any difference at all?
00:09:18And you've got, you know, I don't think every racetrack has to have three stakes races every Saturday.
00:09:24I mean, you know, these big festival days are fantastic when they load all the stakes races up.
00:09:31But if I write in the TDN tomorrow that Naira has done away with the Sands Point, that would be like on page 38.
00:09:38I think we're getting to that point.
00:09:41Yeah, it's going to happen.
00:09:43It's happening very slowly as things always happen in horse racing.
00:09:47I mean, look at the Woodward.
00:09:48I mean, the Woodward was a horrible race the other day.
00:09:51Now it's down to a grade two.
00:09:53Can you imagine the thought that the Woodward would actually be a grade two and not a grade one?
00:09:59And it looked like a grade three if that the other day.
00:10:02That's exaggerating a little bit.
00:10:04It was definitely at least a grade three caliber.
00:10:06But it's, you know, I mean, it's one of those races that and there's a long list at every track,
00:10:12a list at every track of races that probably should be discontinued.
00:10:17Do you agree, Zoe?
00:10:18Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
00:10:20But it's back to the adage that I've been beating on about over and over.
00:10:27Everybody wants their own slice of the pie and no one will give up a little piece of their slice of the pie to help someone else out.
00:10:34So no one wants to work together at the end of the day.
00:10:39It's all for one and one for one.
00:10:41It's not one for all.
00:10:42And I'm not sure it ever will be, unfortunately.
00:10:45That's the way the American horse racing system is organized.
00:10:49It's every state for itself, right?
00:10:51Yeah, exactly.
00:10:54Well, I'm with you guys.
00:10:55I don't think anything is necessarily going to change there, but they better start taking a hard look at this.
00:11:00Randy, I mean, for instance, the Woodward, I think a couple more years like this, it'll be a grade three.
00:11:05And that would just break my heart.
00:11:07So I was talking about Terry Finley, and I was calling him up to see what Carson's run was up to and where he's going.
00:11:12He said, you know what?
00:11:14Racing has changed so much in the U.S. over the last 15 years or so where turf racing has become so important.
00:11:22Why shouldn't there be an Eclipse Award for three-year-old grass champion and three-year-old Philly grass champion?
00:11:29I would be against it, but I think he makes a good point.
00:11:33The reason why I would be against it is because where do you stop?
00:11:35You then have an Eclipse Award for two-year-old grass horse and that sort of thing.
00:11:40But it's an interesting idea, and he does make a good point.
00:11:44Has the sport kept up with the changing times where races at the major tracks now, you know, 50 percent of them or so are on the grass?
00:11:54I'm not sure I'm buying the three-year-old Philly turf horse, but you did bring up a point just then that I hadn't even thought about.
00:12:04How about a two-year-old turf champ?
00:12:07That would be OK, but not of a particular sex, just on the whole.
00:12:12I'm not buying a three-year-old Philly turf champion.
00:12:15You know, that's when we're going into the juvenile turf sprint and all of that.
00:12:21But, Zoe, you're completely OK with having one award for a two-year-old grass horse?
00:12:27That's another way to look at it. Sure.
00:12:29Yeah, I'm good with that.
00:12:31The argument, obviously, Bill, is probably your argument that you don't want to dilute the Eclipse Awards to that extent, right?
00:12:42To Terry Finley's point, you could go down this road in a lot of different areas as well.
00:12:48Turf miler as opposed to turf distance horse, because we have that challenge a lot trying to figure out who the champion turf horse is, right?
00:12:59Do you focus more on the Breeders' Cup turf kind of horses or the Breeders' Cup mile kind of horses?
00:13:03It goes from year to year based on how dominant they are.
00:13:06Dirt milers as opposed to dirt distance horses, now that the Breeders' Cup dirt mile is so popular.
00:13:12And this year, it's going to be a fantastic race, the dirt mile.
00:13:17Do you ignore those horses when you look at champion older male or do you like the Cody's Wish situation?
00:13:23You try to figure out who might be the best and take distance out of the equation.
00:13:29Two-year-old turf? Yeah, two-year-old turf horse.
00:13:32There are a lot of different categories where you can split up the Eclipse Awards.
00:13:39And I think the main argument against it is that if you have too many Eclipse Awards, maybe you kind of dilute the importance a little bit.
00:13:48I don't know.
00:13:49Yeah, I would agree with you on that, Randy.
00:13:51I mean, that's the thing.
00:13:53Is this the perfect number?
00:13:55Maybe, maybe not.
00:13:56But you're right.
00:13:57If you open up the Pandora's box here and you even came up with some divisions I didn't even think of, like champion dirt miler type of thing.
00:14:07I would say Terry Finley owns the best three-year-old male grass horse in the country, or as West Point Stables does.
00:14:13So obviously he would have an interest in being able to get an Eclipse Award.
00:14:16The horse has no chance of getting the regular Eclipse Award for turf champion.
00:14:20So you can see why he's in favor of that.
00:14:22He makes some good points, but I think all three of us probably agree.
00:14:26It's not the right thing to do.
00:14:28The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:14:32It's a busy time of the year at Keeneland, and the November sale is coming right up quickly, as well as us being in the middle of the fall championship meet here.
00:14:41The November sale does start on November 5th.
00:14:44Keeneland will continue to accept wildcard entries right up to the sale.
00:14:49You can find the supplements entered so far at november.keeneland.com.
00:14:54That's november.keeneland.com.
00:14:57We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:15:01Looking for bloodstock that shapes the world?
00:15:04You can find it here.
00:15:06Foundation mares that will shape the breed.
00:15:10Weanlings with prime potential.
00:15:12Your next moment in the winter circle.
00:15:15It's all waiting for you here at The World's Marketplace.
00:15:19Keeneland November Breeding Stock Sale.
00:15:21Where the future is found.
00:15:24Beginning Tuesday, November 5th.
00:15:32This week's fastest horse of the week is brought to you by Timberlake.
00:15:37There's a new sponsor for our fastest horse of the week.
00:15:40One of the fast sires at Windstar Farm, who now joins Practical Joke as the only grade one winning two year olds by into mischief to stand that stud anywhere.
00:15:52But while Practical Joke ran an 88 buyer speed figure in the Champaign,
00:15:56Timberlake won that same race with a buyer of 93,
00:16:00defeating the eventual two year old champion Fierceness.
00:16:03Timberlake was a TD and rising star after his maiden special weight win by nine and a quarter links.
00:16:09And he was second in the hopeful stakes before winning the Champaign.
00:16:13He went on as a three year old to win the rebel stakes at Oakland and was a close third in the Haskell behind Dornoch.
00:16:20He is new to Windstar for 2025 and Timberlake will stand stud next year for a fee of only $20,000.
00:16:28Fastest horse of the week we have already mentioned.
00:16:31It would be She Feels Pretty, whose big win in the QE2 at Keeneland earned a buyer speed figure of 100.
00:16:39The only triple digit buyer speed figure of the weekend.
00:16:43She Feels Pretty trained by Cherie DeVoe.
00:16:45How good is her stable right now?
00:16:47And she is, she not only feels pretty, but she is our fastest horse of the week.
00:16:58We welcome in now the guest of the week.
00:17:00It's none other than Mike Smith, the winningest jockey in the history of the Breeders' Cup with 27 Breeders' Cup victories.
00:17:06Welcome, Mike.
00:17:07And so much so we can do with the going down memory lane.
00:17:10I'm going to start with a question you probably get asked a lot.
00:17:13What was your favorite Breeders' Cup moment?
00:17:15Would it have been Zenyatta when she won?
00:17:17Yeah, I think it would have to have been her.
00:17:20Yeah.
00:17:21That was a day that I think even other trainers that had horses in the race were rooting for her.
00:17:28It was crazy.
00:17:29It was just one of those.
00:17:30She was that special.
00:17:31She was that good, you know.
00:17:34This is unbelievable.
00:17:38That call certainly resonates.
00:17:42And I think her, you know, running against the boys, you know, the mare first time beating the boys.
00:17:47I think it all had played into it, you know.
00:17:51So the Breeders' Cup...
00:17:52And her unbeaten record as well.
00:17:54Yeah.
00:17:55Breeders' Cup has obviously meant a whole lot to you and your career.
00:17:58You've won more Breeders' Cup races than any other rider.
00:18:00More Breeders' Cup money than any other rider.
00:18:03How is the Breeders' Cup...
00:18:05Your first mount in the Breeders' Cup, I believe, was 1990.
00:18:10So that was 34 years ago.
00:18:13How has the Breeders' Cup evolved in your mind from when you first started riding to where it is right now?
00:18:19I believe back then, there was only seven.
00:18:23Seven of them back then.
00:18:25Now you have Friday and Saturday.
00:18:28You have seven on both days, I believe.
00:18:30Maybe even more now.
00:18:32It's just turned into a bigger event, you know.
00:18:35I mean, you have two days of it.
00:18:38Everyone in America and around the world is watching because horses are coming from everywhere.
00:18:42And you have so many different categories now that you didn't have when they first started.
00:18:49So yeah, it's just bigger and better.
00:18:55Mike, you were supposed to ride Subsanador, the winner of the California Crown in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:19:00He's had an injury and has pulled out of the race.
00:19:04That can never be fun to have a good horse get hurt.
00:19:07But did this particularly hurt?
00:19:09I mean, he looked like he had a real good chance in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:19:12He really did.
00:19:14He was doing tremendous.
00:19:17Going back to Delmar, when he trains there, he just loves that track.
00:19:24Although he's never ran a race over it, his works over that race track are just phenomenal.
00:19:29I mean, he just floats over that track.
00:19:32So I was so excited about going back there.
00:19:35But the good news is, I mean, it's just a very minor injury.
00:19:37It requires no surgery.
00:19:39His plans are running next year.
00:19:41So that just means I'm going to ride another year.
00:19:43All right.
00:19:44Do you want to play Mike Smith Breeders' Cup trivia?
00:19:48Sure.
00:19:49I hope I remember some of these things.
00:19:52I got three or four questions for you here.
00:19:54All right.
00:19:55Number one, how many Breeders' Cup races have you won?
00:19:5927.
00:20:01Exactly.
00:20:02Okay.
00:20:03Which Breeders' Cup race have you won more than any other?
00:20:09Oh, maybe the Distaff?
00:20:12That is correct.
00:20:13Five Distaff winners.
00:20:15Four winners in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:20:18That's a pretty nice one-two punch.
00:20:20All right.
00:20:21There are three Breeders' Cup races being run this year.
00:20:25The only three that you have never won.
00:20:29Which would those three be?
00:20:32That I've never won?
00:20:34That you've never won.
00:20:35It would be the Philly Juvenile.
00:20:40Turf.
00:20:41Turf.
00:20:42Correct.
00:20:43The Turf.
00:20:44It would be.
00:20:47Let's see.
00:20:53The other two are Turf.
00:20:55Some of the others.
00:20:56So all three races are on the grass.
00:20:59Juvenile Philly's Turf.
00:21:01Yes.
00:21:04Then you have the Philly and Mare.
00:21:08Correct.
00:21:09Philly and Mare Turf.
00:21:11And the other one you'll never get because it just started.
00:21:13The Juvenile Turf Sprint.
00:21:15Oh, the Juvenile Turf Sprint.
00:21:16That's a new one.
00:21:18Yeah.
00:21:19You won the Marathon, which is no longer in existence,
00:21:23but you've won every other Breeders' Cup race at least once.
00:21:28Most of them multiple times, except for those three.
00:21:32That's quite an accomplishment.
00:21:34Yeah, I've been very blessed in the Breeders' Cups.
00:21:37Mike, you've been moving around a lot this year.
00:21:40You've had events at Charlestown, Fairmont Park.
00:21:43What do they call that place now?
00:21:45FanDuel Racing Monmouth.
00:21:47Do you enjoy that?
00:21:49And why is it that you've hit the road so many times?
00:21:52Yeah, I mean, I always enjoy traveling.
00:21:54And then COVID kind of put a stop to all that, Bill.
00:21:56But I was traveling quite a bit before that
00:21:59and just riding really good horses and really good races.
00:22:03So it's taken me a while to get back to doing that.
00:22:05And I was able to hook up with Safi Joseph earlier this year,
00:22:09and he kind of kicked it all off for me and got it going for me again.
00:22:13And traveling somewhat for Doug O'Neill and a few other trainers.
00:22:17But hopefully it'll continue,
00:22:19and I'll continue to travel and ride some of these bigger races.
00:22:23Even though some of these racetracks are like Charlestown and stuff,
00:22:27the purses are huge.
00:22:28It's amazing the amount of money, the purse money,
00:22:31that they're giving away for some of these stakes.
00:22:35So looking at your list of Breeders' Cup winners,
00:22:37we've already talked about Zenyatta.
00:22:39I mean, it's been just some absolute spectacular performances.
00:22:43Arrowgate in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:22:46Inside Information.
00:22:49In the 1995 Distaff.
00:22:51I'm not sure Zenyatta could have beaten Inside Information on that day.
00:22:55He might have beaten Cigar that day.
00:22:58Yeah, she was unbelievable.
00:23:00Lure obviously going back-to-back in his two Breeders' Cup miles.
00:23:06Highlights other than Zenyatta.
00:23:09What would you say?
00:23:12Oh man, Skipaway winning the Classic.
00:23:16I've been blessed to have won some really good Breeders' Cup races.
00:23:25What about ones that got away?
00:23:29Jerry Bailey, my broadcast partner, friend of yours,
00:23:33seems to remember Kentucky Derby's Breeders' Cups
00:23:37that he could have had them out and chose another one
00:23:41or wishes he had a do-over.
00:23:45You know, he actually was on the receiving end of a good one
00:23:50that I could have had, and that was Archon,
00:23:53I believe is how you pronounce his name, for Andre Fab.
00:23:57But Jerry wound up picking him up and winning the Classic on him.
00:24:00I actually had the call on him and gave it up
00:24:03because Alan Jerkins decided to run Devil is Due
00:24:06the last minute in the Breeders' Cup.
00:24:08I had gone to Andre and asked him if I could take off.
00:24:12I knew there were a few top great riders that were open,
00:24:16and of course Jerry popped up.
00:24:19I said, well, let me call him.
00:24:21Jerry said, yeah, I'll ride him.
00:24:23I wound up taking off of him and riding Devil is Due.
00:24:27Of course, you guys know the history.
00:24:29I think he was 99-1 and Jerry wins the race.
00:24:32That was one that got away.
00:24:34What were you thinking during that race as the race was transpiring?
00:24:40That could have been me.
00:24:42He just had some trip.
00:24:44Who knows?
00:24:45I probably wouldn't have rode him as well as Jerry did.
00:24:47He rode him tremendous that day.
00:24:49It was like a flawless ride, man.
00:24:51He got through on the rail and went on to win.
00:24:53He just ran a huge race that day.
00:24:56Jerry didn't even know his name, I don't think, at the time.
00:25:02Mike, you are in your late 50s, which used to be an age
00:25:07where a jockey would have been retired for 10 years or so,
00:25:10and you're still going strong.
00:25:12It's not just you.
00:25:13We have Perry Utz just won a race at age 70.
00:25:16Jose Ferrer rides down at Gulfstream in New Jersey, 60 years old.
00:25:21John Court, he made it to his late 50s.
00:25:24Are there a lot of other guys like you taking their health very seriously
00:25:29and working out?
00:25:30Why do you think it is that so many people now are riding
00:25:33well past what you think would be a retirement age?
00:25:36I think it's exactly that, Bill.
00:25:39It's what you said.
00:25:41If you take a look at those guys you just mentioned,
00:25:45Lafitte could have been one of them as well.
00:25:47If he wouldn't have broke his neck and the doctors allowed him to ride,
00:25:51he'd still be riding right now.
00:25:52I truly believe that.
00:25:53He looks amazing.
00:25:54But if you take your health seriously and you take care of yourself
00:25:57and you work out and you do the right things, man, you just…
00:26:00Look, we don't do the running.
00:26:02We're NFL players so we have to carry the ball and do all the running
00:26:05and the ducking and the diving.
00:26:07You just got to be able to have great legs and keep yourself in great shape
00:26:12and then all that experience on top of it.
00:26:15It's just a plus.
00:26:17As long as you take care of yourself, you can definitely ride into your 60s
00:26:22at a top, top level.
00:26:24I'm 58 right now and I swear to you I don't feel any different than I did
00:26:28when I was in my late to early 40s.
00:26:32Mike, is it getting harder though to keep it up
00:26:36and keep this fitness routine up as you get older?
00:26:39I guess maybe it would be for some people but I'm just kind of built that way, man.
00:26:44Bill, I'm just kind of a different bird, man.
00:26:48I feel I get up at five days a week and I train and I work out hard
00:26:53and I feel like if I don't, I just don't feel good.
00:26:57I feel better when I do and it's just a drug for me, man.
00:27:01I love going into the gym and working out and adding new routines
00:27:05and doing new things.
00:27:08I'm doing this balance stuff now that's got my legs so strong, man.
00:27:11I feel like I'm a kid all over again, man.
00:27:13I just love it.
00:27:16You just opened the door to a question that people might find pretty interesting.
00:27:21For the longest time, almost all your career,
00:27:25your bio says your birth date is August 10th, 1965,
00:27:30which would make you 59 years old.
00:27:34But yet, you say you're 58 years.
00:27:37Now, the statute of limitations has expired on this a long time ago.
00:27:42How exactly how old are you and how did this misconception come about?
00:27:48I'm 58 and I was born in 66.
00:27:52When I first started, I wasn't quite old enough.
00:27:57A couple of months, I think it was.
00:28:01They just allowed me to ride back then and it just never changed.
00:28:05I've tried to change it several different times and it's already been in the system that way.
00:28:09They said, just leave it that way. It's too much trouble to change.
00:28:12Nowadays, back then I didn't care so I just kind of went with it.
00:28:16But as you get older, you kind of want it to go back.
00:28:19I kept trying to at different places and finally they've changed it at almost every place.
00:28:24There's still some places that still have it that way.
00:28:26Every time I put it in there, I'll put the right date and it just never changed.
00:28:31So you fudged your birthday a little so you could ride when you were 15 before you actually started?
00:28:37I'm not exactly sure how it happened, but it was long ago.
00:28:43It had to be in Santa Fe in 1982 at some point and it just never changed.
00:28:48I always tried to change it even back then and they just kind of left it that way.
00:28:53Mike, you were talking about losing the mountain on a Kong.
00:28:57There's another horse and it also involves Jerry Bailey.
00:29:01But you were at one point the rider of Cigar and you had to take off of him to ride.
00:29:08I don't think the Don was the first time you took off him.
00:29:11But anyways, you got off him and then Jerry Bailey got on Cigar.
00:29:16I always feel that the 1995 Don, racing got robbed of what might have been the greatest race we've ever seen.
00:29:24Cigar versus Holy Bull.
00:29:26Holy Bull pulled up in that race and never ran again.
00:29:29You rode both horses at some points during their career.
00:29:33Who would have won that race?
00:29:35Well, I would like to have thought that I would have, but you don't know, do you?
00:29:41I mean, you just don't know.
00:29:42Cigar was just starting to become the horse that he became to be.
00:29:46And I think Holy Bull certainly had a bigger resume at that point.
00:29:51It was probably, if not the favorite, I think he was a favorite actually going into the race.
00:29:58All I can say was I was in front when it happened, when he got hurt.
00:30:03At that point, I was a good neck in front, maybe even half the length when it happened.
00:30:09But yeah, it certainly did get robbed of not only a great horse race that would have probably developed in that race,
00:30:18but of a great horse that was probably going to go on to do some other great things.
00:30:22After that race, I believe he was going to head to California and run out here.
00:30:28But of course, he wound up mowing in that race and never got a chance to.
00:30:32But it would have been fun to see what would have become, what would have happened.
00:30:38So you've been a TV analyst on Fox.
00:30:41Let's put your TV, let's put your analyst hat back on here.
00:30:45We mentioned our Kong who won the Breeders' Cup Classic, despite the fact that he had never run on dirt before.
00:30:54He was making the transition.
00:30:56This year, people are going to be trying to figure out whether City of Troy will be able to make that transition from turf to dirt in the Classic.
00:31:05What are your thoughts on the challenge that a horse like City of Troy faces against some good, really good American dirt horses this year in the Classic?
00:31:15Well, kickback would be one to start with.
00:31:20He's never had that kind of kickback into his face.
00:31:23When you run on turf, you don't get that steady flow of sand that's going to be hitting him.
00:31:29Dirt is certainly harder to get through than turf.
00:31:32It's more demanding.
00:31:34So you can't stop and start on dirt near as much as you can at the grass or at all.
00:31:41The idea of dirt is to have a good, smooth trip.
00:31:45So he's certainly bred for dirt.
00:31:48I mean, his dad was justified, of course.
00:31:52He's pretty tactical.
00:31:54He ain't going to be 10, 15 lengths out of it.
00:32:01He should be somewhat tactical, which could keep some of that kickback off his face.
00:32:07And as long as they got him fit enough to run a mile and a quarter over the dirt, I see no problem with it.
00:32:12I think his resume so far and the kind of type of horses he's been running against in Europe,
00:32:20he certainly belongs.
00:32:21He deserves a chance.
00:32:23The stop and start thing I've never heard before.
00:32:26Explain that.
00:32:28Well, on turf, you cover up, right?
00:32:30It's very important to save ground because it's easy to get going again.
00:32:33You can cover a horse up and you can tap on the brakes here and there to hold them down in there.
00:32:39And then when the hole does open up, they accelerate really easy over the grass.
00:32:43They get over it that easier.
00:32:45If you stop and start on the dirt, it's much harder to get going again, and you'll lose a race that way a lot of times.
00:32:54Is it a traction thing?
00:32:56They can't get the same traction that they can on grass to quickly accelerate?
00:33:00Yes, it's deeper.
00:33:01Dirt is deeper, of course.
00:33:03It's naturally deeper and it's harder to get through than turf is.
00:33:06Turf, you run right over the top of the ground.
00:33:08It's pretty easy to get through.
00:33:11Especially at Del Mar, it's going to be deeper and it's more demanding.
00:33:16If you have to stop at a crucial point on the dirt, you just don't get going again, unless you're much the best.
00:33:22But in these types of races, you ain't going to be much the best.
00:33:27You have to stop at a crucial point on the dirt.
00:33:29You just can't accelerate again as quick.
00:33:32Or if at all, some horses just completely give up.
00:33:35If you were riding him, how would you try to handle those situations?
00:33:40I would certainly want to get him out of there well.
00:33:43Get him in a good, comfortable spot where I'm not getting too much kickback.
00:33:46And just try and have the smoothest trip as possible.
00:33:49A lot of times, a smooth trip can be down in the pocket on the dirt.
00:33:53It's just you don't want to stop and start too much.
00:33:56You can still sit down there in the pocket as long as the horses that you're in front of continue to take you to where you need to go.
00:34:05I would just ride him out of there, get him in a good spot, put my hands down and see how he's handling everything.
00:34:12Mike, I got asked a question now that you've been asked 75,000 times and probably getting pretty sick of it.
00:34:18But now that Randy caught you in the lie about your age, that we know that you're really only 58.
00:34:24And you said you don't see any reason why jockeys can't prosper into their 60s.
00:34:29Is your answer the same as pretty much it's always been?
00:34:32You're going to keep doing this as long as you feel that you can help the horse or you're not hindering the horse?
00:34:37Oh, yeah, pretty much.
00:34:39And I mean, even as of late, people are starting to use me again all of a sudden.
00:34:46As long as I'm getting opportunities.
00:34:49I had a good week this week and I'm doing really well.
00:34:54It's not showing that I'm in my age that I still have my legs.
00:35:01I'm strong down the lane.
00:35:04Still working out every bit as hard as I was before and still able to do it.
00:35:09If I stop now, Bill, I would go nuts, man.
00:35:12I'd sit here, you know, as fit as I am, as good as I feel.
00:35:18I feel like I'm just robbing myself of this great sport.
00:35:24It's something that I really love to do.
00:35:26I mean, I enjoy riding right now just as much, if not more, than I ever have.
00:35:30I mean, I'm having fun.
00:35:32I love it when I can go out there at my age and beat these guys, man.
00:35:35It's a blast.
00:35:36As long as I'm riding the right horses, you can do that.
00:35:39Well, you've won multiple Kentucky Derbies.
00:35:42You've won the Triple Crown, which is something that would be, you know,
00:35:46an unachievable dream for most top jockeys out there.
00:35:49You've won more Breeders' Cup races than any other rider.
00:35:52What's the bucket list left?
00:35:55Just do some of this all over again.
00:35:57I've always, for whatever reason, early on in my life said I was going to win three Derbies.
00:36:02I've told myself that since the day I started.
00:36:06I've got one more to go.
00:36:08I need to win one more Derby.
00:36:10Well, Mike Smith, thanks so much for spending some time with us today on the TDN Riders' Room broadcast.
00:36:14He's our guest of the week.
00:36:16Good luck going forward, and it's good to see that you're still ready to go,
00:36:20even though you lied about your age, but in a good way.
00:36:25So, Mike, thanks so much, and we'll catch up with you again soon.
00:36:28Thanks for having me on.
00:36:30TDN Riders' Room, also brought to you by our good friends at the PHBA,
00:36:34the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders' Association.
00:36:37This weekend at the Maryland Million, a Pennsylvania bred stole the show in the Distaff.
00:36:43Her name, Foxy Jr., a homebred for Diane Stern.
00:36:47She won the $100,000 Maryland Distaff for her second straight stakes win
00:36:51after taking the $100,000 Plum Pretty stakes at Parks for Pennsylvania breds in her most recent start.
00:36:58Foxy Jr. is now five for six this year for trainer Bernard Houghton.
00:37:03To find out more about why it would help you, why it would help your pocketbook,
00:37:07and your fun to breed and own in the state of Pennsylvania,
00:37:10visit www.pabred.com or call 610-444-1050.
00:37:17PA bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:37:24It's excitement at every step.
00:37:27Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:37:31On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year
00:37:36in breeders' awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:37:40Plus, PA bred shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:37:43Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:37:46Learn more at pabred.com.
00:37:49In this week's edition of First Things First, I caught up with a very special guy,
00:37:54Phil D'Amato, who finally hit his mark, win number 1,000.
00:38:04Phil, how does it feel to be here with your whole family
00:38:08and get this 1,000 win under your belt with a homebred?
00:38:12It's unbelievable.
00:38:13To, again, share it with my family, who all helped this great team we have win these races.
00:38:21To celebrate it with a homebred that I bred by a really great stallion in grazing
00:38:27that's done wonders for my barn, it's just really cool.
00:38:32Talk about the beginning, because you and Sherry come via Mike Mitchell.
00:38:37What did he mean to you as a trainer and a friend and a confidant and a mentor
00:38:43and to be here in the winner's circle right now?
00:38:48Mike treated me like a son.
00:38:51Everybody knows him in California as being one of the top trainers for decades,
00:38:58but he really never got the recognition due to him,
00:39:01because he was an amazing trainer, could train any kind of racehorse,
00:39:04and was one of the best teachers there was.
00:39:08Also, I started with the late, great Chuck Simon, who passed away this year.
00:39:13Chuck, I'm sure you're up there looking down on me as well.
00:39:18I had two great mentors, and I got my 1,000th this year.
00:39:22It's just very special.
00:39:25Sherry, you've been with him every step of the way.
00:39:27What does it mean for you?
00:39:28Because you've been through the ups, the downs, the sideways, and everything from Mike to now.
00:39:33Yeah, from Mike to now.
00:39:34Mike was amazing.
00:39:35It is emotional for all of us, because Mike still is my heart.
00:39:40His family still is our family.
00:39:42So we're just very thankful, very blessed.
00:39:44Honestly, just very blessed.
00:39:45And to have my daughter come along later on in the year to start riding,
00:39:49it's really fun to be out there with her, riding with her.
00:39:52And this one, I don't think he cares about riding, but you can.
00:39:55He's going to hit some golf balls later, right, Ryan?
00:39:58I'm there for support.
00:39:59How are we celebrating tonight, guys?
00:40:01Going home.
00:40:02Going home.
00:40:03Family barbecue.
00:40:04We got to watch the Dodgers tonight.
00:40:05Come on.
00:40:06All right.
00:40:07Good luck, guys.
00:40:08Thanks so much for your time.
00:40:11Many thanks to trainer Phil D'Amato.
00:40:13And, yes, that was nice to hear an ode to not only Mike Mitchell,
00:40:17but also to the late Chuck Simon as well.
00:40:20So congratulations on Phil D'Amato with his 1,000th win.
00:40:25Many, many more to come.
00:40:27All right, Santa Anita does continue this weekend with a three-day racing
00:40:31weekend starting on Friday at 1 o'clock post-time.
00:40:34Stakes races on Saturday will have the Anokia Series.
00:40:37Stakes races on Saturday will have the Anokia Stakes,
00:40:40along with the Fall Fun Fest and a Birriano.
00:40:45Lucha Libre.
00:40:46I know you'll like to be there for that, Randy.
00:40:48Lots of micheladas and mariachis,
00:40:51all things going on at Santa Anita this coming weekend.
00:40:54You like micheladas, right, Randy?
00:40:56I do.
00:40:57Yes, I do.
00:40:58I love a michelada.
00:40:59And they make really good ones there.
00:41:01In this week's segment of News You Can Use,
00:41:05presented by Dali, we go across the pond once more to our own Emma Berry.
00:41:10Emma, how's it going over there?
00:41:12And how's the rain?
00:41:14It's still raining.
00:41:16Yeah, unfortunately,
00:41:17it looks like we're getting into heavy ground this weekend for Champions
00:41:22Stakes.
00:41:23But before that,
00:41:24we're still sort of only just over halfway through the colossal Tattles
00:41:29October yearling sale in Newmarket.
00:41:31So we're into the second week and book two.
00:41:34But book one was just, well,
00:41:38I think it was described by the Tattles chairman,
00:41:41Edmund Marney as outlandish.
00:41:43And I would back him up on that because I could barely stay in my seat for
00:41:46running around, chasing people, buying seven figure lots.
00:41:50It was, I've never known a sale like it.
00:41:52I mean,
00:41:53it was hot on the heels of what basically has been happening over here at
00:41:57Stateside, September sale, Resolute Racing.
00:42:00And now we have Kia and Ammo Racing.
00:42:03What's been the general feeling about Ammo Racing,
00:42:06buying everything in sight?
00:42:08How many times did you have to interview Kia?
00:42:10Well, yeah, he did.
00:42:12He initially didn't do interviews,
00:42:15but then he did.
00:42:16So he did consent to some interviews and he works with Buzzstock agent,
00:42:20Alex Elliott, who was also,
00:42:22you know,
00:42:23called up quite a lot to speak about what they were doing.
00:42:26As you know,
00:42:27he was active.
00:42:28The team was active at Keeneland September and even more so here in New
00:42:32Market.
00:42:33I mean,
00:42:34I don't think anyone could have predicted the level at which they spent last
00:42:37week.
00:42:38It was around sort of 22 million guineas and mostly,
00:42:43you know,
00:42:44some of them on their own,
00:42:45some in partnership with Al Shukab Racing and they were driving the market as
00:42:49well as under bidders to,
00:42:50you know,
00:42:51Sheikh Mohammed,
00:42:52you know,
00:42:53the Godolphin team,
00:42:54Coolmore.
00:42:55You know,
00:42:56Godolphin was the biggest vendor and Ammo very close up there as well.
00:42:59Between those two,
00:43:00just those two entities,
00:43:01they accounted for about 35% of the turnover of book one,
00:43:05which was sort of the equivalent of roughly $175 million for 345 forces
00:43:11altogether.
00:43:12So,
00:43:13I mean,
00:43:14it was a phenomenal week and,
00:43:15yeah,
00:43:16along with Keeneland September would certainly be the strongest sale that's
00:43:19taken place anywhere this year,
00:43:21I would say.
00:43:24Is Sheikh Tamim and Wathenden Racing basically focusing their spending sprees
00:43:31on ready-made racehorses as opposed to buying young horses at sales,
00:43:35or are they really involved in the sales as well?
00:43:37A bit of both.
00:43:40A lot of in-training purchases through this season and last,
00:43:43and they tend not to identify themselves in the yearling sales process,
00:43:51but their agent is Richard Brown of Blanford Bloodstock.
00:43:55Now,
00:43:56he does buy for a lot of other people as well.
00:43:58And he was the sort of third or Blanford Bloodstock as the agency was the
00:44:01third leading buyer at book one.
00:44:03And I'm sure that a number of those purchases will end up running in the
00:44:07Wathenden Racing silks.
00:44:08And yeah,
00:44:09they're another team sort of amassing,
00:44:11you know,
00:44:12a really sort of strong team of,
00:44:14you know,
00:44:15well-bred horses that,
00:44:16you know,
00:44:17you have to think they're going to be going down the road of eventually
00:44:20standing stallions and obviously having a decent broodmare band as that's
00:44:25the focus now for Ammo Racing.
00:44:27They've got some nice horses to retire to start,
00:44:29including King of Steel,
00:44:30who won the champion's stakes this time last year.
00:44:33And yeah,
00:44:34that's how their focus is shifting as well,
00:44:36along with some other new players like Salhi Astad from Saudi Arabia.
00:44:40I mean,
00:44:41there's a lot of emerging nations coming through and,
00:44:43you know,
00:44:44seeming to focus their buying on Europe and starting breeding operations in
00:44:49Britain,
00:44:50which obviously will help this country.
00:44:52This would be for Zoe as much as Emma.
00:44:56So,
00:44:57Zoe,
00:44:58why would a buyer like Shape2Mem want not to identify themselves after the
00:45:04fact,
00:45:05after they've actually,
00:45:06not during the bidding process,
00:45:07I understand that,
00:45:08but after they purchased?
00:45:10I mean,
00:45:11why the secrecy?
00:45:13I have got no idea.
00:45:15Like,
00:45:16I don't know what the deal is with that because Emma,
00:45:19we all know it all comes out in the end.
00:45:22Like there's no hiding anything anymore.
00:45:26Well,
00:45:27no,
00:45:28as soon as the horses are registered as in training or entered for races,
00:45:30we know who they're running for.
00:45:31I don't know.
00:45:32It's,
00:45:33that's been a little bit their profile at public auction,
00:45:36certainly possibly to do with him being the M.A.
00:45:40and,
00:45:41you know,
00:45:42the head of head of the state in Qatar,
00:45:43albeit,
00:45:44you know,
00:45:45Sheikh Mohammed from Dubai was there all week through book one last,
00:45:49last week.
00:45:50And,
00:45:51you know,
00:45:52very obviously bidding alongside his agent,
00:45:54Anthony Stroud.
00:45:55So I think,
00:45:56I guess it just depends on the individuals.
00:45:58And,
00:45:59and at this moment,
00:46:00they're sort of a little bit more private in,
00:46:02in the initial stages of their purchases.
00:46:05Have there been any surprises as far as freshman size,
00:46:08new size,
00:46:09anything that really hit the mark that,
00:46:11that was a surprise or perhaps wasn't just sold like hotcakes so far?
00:46:15No real surprises.
00:46:17I mean,
00:46:18I think a lot of people were expecting the St.
00:46:20Mark's Basilica yearlings to sell.
00:46:22Well,
00:46:23he was the,
00:46:24you know,
00:46:25champion two year old,
00:46:26champion three year old.
00:46:27And he's,
00:46:28you know,
00:46:29they,
00:46:30they've been well supported.
00:46:32Sort of figuring a little bit more book two this week.
00:46:34He's,
00:46:35he's got very small books that study of man.
00:46:37He's got a very interesting runner on Saturday,
00:46:39favorite for the champion Phillies,
00:46:41Mayor States,
00:46:42that's Kalpana,
00:46:43the Jumbo Philly and study.
00:46:45Man is extraordinarily well bred horse.
00:46:48He's by deep impact and he's out of a storm cat daughter of the great me.
00:46:52Esk.
00:46:53I mean,
00:46:54you hardly find a nicer pedigree than that,
00:46:56in my opinion.
00:46:57And he's covered quite small books at land.
00:46:59We'd start a new market,
00:47:00his runners,
00:47:01especially now he's got his first three year olds this year,
00:47:03and they've really made quite a splash,
00:47:05you know,
00:47:07from the numbers that he has on the ground.
00:47:09And he's starting to sort of rise in,
00:47:11in some people's opinions.
00:47:12And,
00:47:13you know,
00:47:14he's a couple of his yearlings,
00:47:15particularly sold very well yesterday,
00:47:16one going to Joseph O'Brien,
00:47:17one going over to France to Andre Favre.
00:47:19You know,
00:47:20they're starting to get into those,
00:47:21those bigger yards.
00:47:22So he's going to be selling to keep an eye on.
00:47:25He's a quite an under the radar horse,
00:47:26really.
00:47:27But it'll be interesting to see how he develops as he covers bigger books.
00:47:30And he certainly did cover,
00:47:32I think around just over a hundred this year.
00:47:34So we'll be seeing hopefully some more from him.
00:47:37I think he's a really interesting horse.
00:47:40Well,
00:47:41now that I've exhausted my supply of sales questions,
00:47:43which would be one,
00:47:45let me,
00:47:46let me move on to the racing,
00:47:48the British,
00:47:49British champions day.
00:47:50That's something that we all follow over here.
00:47:52If for no other reason than we typically get some,
00:47:56some breeders cup horses out of champions day,
00:47:58especially from the Coolmore contingent.
00:48:00So tell us about some of the horses that we can be really focused on this
00:48:04weekend.
00:48:06Well,
00:48:07I promised myself I wouldn't mention Kiprios again,
00:48:09because I think I mentioned him every time I come in here,
00:48:11but Kiprios is running on Saturday in the long distance cup.
00:48:15He's just the best there around.
00:48:17And he's a terrific horse.
00:48:19Just an absolute one of those part on his sleeve horses that just is
00:48:23fantastic to follow.
00:48:25So he'll be favorite for the long distance cup.
00:48:27And then I mentioned Kalpana earlier,
00:48:29who's also favorite for the fillies and mares.
00:48:33The two,
00:48:34what I mean,
00:48:35it's four group one races and a group two on Saturday,
00:48:37the two big group ones,
00:48:38if you like,
00:48:39in my opinion,
00:48:40the Queen Elizabeth,
00:48:41the second stakes,
00:48:42we're going to see Tanfana coming back from the sun chariot.
00:48:44Hopefully she,
00:48:45she won her first group one just a couple of weeks ago at new market.
00:48:48Very interesting filly on the up for also an on the up trainer,
00:48:51David Munoz,
00:48:52who's French,
00:48:53but trains in Britain.
00:48:54And he's a real trainer to follow my view.
00:48:56He's,
00:48:57he gets terrific results from horses,
00:48:59not bought really expensively.
00:49:02This filly cost 20,000 euros at the German yearling sale.
00:49:05A couple of years ago,
00:49:06she's by soldier hollow,
00:49:07who was terrific selling in Germany,
00:49:09but it's not a high profile here.
00:49:11So she's,
00:49:13she's going to be interesting going up against Sharon,
00:49:15who's sort of champion Marla roulette in,
00:49:17in Britain.
00:49:18He's about to retire actually to someday in,
00:49:21in France next year,
00:49:22but he's been a terrific horse for Nolan Bissicoff and his trainer,
00:49:26Roger Varian,
00:49:27but probably what could be story of the sunny story of a few weekends ago at
00:49:32new market is a horse called Prague,
00:49:34and he's been supplemented for the QE2.
00:49:36And he's one that got away from cool more.
00:49:39It doesn't happen very often,
00:49:41but this time last year,
00:49:43his owner,
00:49:44Amadeo Del Paz,
00:49:45who is also his rider.
00:49:46And there's also the head lad for his trainer,
00:49:48Dylan Cunha bought him for 10,000 guineas at the horses training sale.
00:49:52And he's now a group two.
00:49:53He hadn't raced before that.
00:49:54He's a four year old he's run this year,
00:49:56and he's now a group two winner.
00:49:58He's been supplemented for the QE2.
00:50:00And it would be quite a story if,
00:50:03you know,
00:50:04within a year of buying him for such a relatively small amount,
00:50:07he's,
00:50:08he's now lining up in a group one on one of the biggest days in Britain.
00:50:11So that's going to be a lovely story to follow.
00:50:15And champion stakes itself.
00:50:17We've got Economics,
00:50:18who's,
00:50:19you know,
00:50:20the horse that a lot of people are talking about here.
00:50:21He's unbeaten this season in four runs.
00:50:23He won the Irish champion stakes,
00:50:25beating August Rodin.
00:50:26And he's now going up against Calandegan,
00:50:29who was second to City of Troy last time at York in the Jumbo International.
00:50:34So that's a real sort of British French clash,
00:50:37William Haggis against Francis Graffa.
00:50:41Two,
00:50:42you know,
00:50:43very exciting three-year-olds taking each other on.
00:50:46And one horse in that race,
00:50:49I just think probably might be overlooked,
00:50:51but shouldn't be,
00:50:52is another French Raider,
00:50:53Irosine,
00:50:54who's a seven-year-old,
00:50:55but loves the soft ground,
00:50:56is very versatile over distance.
00:50:58And I think actually should be taken quite seriously on Saturday,
00:51:01even with those two big horses in the race.
00:51:05Economics would be the one to follow,
00:51:07right?
00:51:08Unbeaten in four starts.
00:51:09He missed the Derby.
00:51:10He is the headline horse.
00:51:12How's he going to handle the ground?
00:51:14And do we know where we're running?
00:51:16Because round course,
00:51:17flat course,
00:51:18jumps course,
00:51:19which course are we going on while the cats and dogs keep falling?
00:51:23They haven't quite made the final decision,
00:51:25as far as I'm aware,
00:51:26at this stage,
00:51:27but it looks like they're going to be going to the inner track,
00:51:29which is,
00:51:30you know,
00:51:31used as the jumps track through the winter,
00:51:32but obviously hasn't been raced on through the summer.
00:51:34So,
00:51:35you know,
00:51:36hopefully the ground will be a little better there.
00:51:37It's a,
00:51:38yeah,
00:51:39that's a question mark over how he will handle really testing ground.
00:51:42He's a big,
00:51:43powerful,
00:51:44long striding horse.
00:51:45Hopefully he'll get through it.
00:51:46It's obviously going to be the same for all of them.
00:51:48Callandigan won at Royal Ascot on completely different ground.
00:51:53So,
00:51:54yeah,
00:51:55it's going to be a test.
00:51:56And there's a bit of an unknown,
00:51:57but he is the,
00:51:58the horse that people will want to see on Saturday.
00:52:00Economics,
00:52:01no question.
00:52:0217 have been declared.
00:52:03I think Aidan had six or seven.
00:52:06Do we know which ones are going?
00:52:08I know Los Angeles.
00:52:09Can he bounce back from the arc?
00:52:11I mean,
00:52:12that's a,
00:52:13that's a tough go.
00:52:14Would he be going?
00:52:15No,
00:52:16I mean,
00:52:17final decks will be made on Thursday morning.
00:52:20So we'll,
00:52:21we'll sort of have the,
00:52:22the light of the confirmation stage on Monday.
00:52:24Yeah.
00:52:25They've all stood their ground and I guess he will wait and see.
00:52:28Cause as you say,
00:52:29it's quite a quick turnaround from the arc,
00:52:31which was running quite testing ground itself.
00:52:33So it's obviously a question of how much that's taken out of him.
00:52:36So yes,
00:52:37unknown at the moment,
00:52:38exactly which of their team will turn up,
00:52:40but they'll have something that's for sure.
00:52:42And Los Angeles is obviously there.
00:52:44The standout of the entries at the moment from,
00:52:46from a valid or well,
00:52:49Obviously over here right now,
00:52:50as you know,
00:52:51everything's sort of the focus is sort of shifted towards the breeders cup.
00:52:54And one of the challenges that I face every year about this time is that a
00:52:59lot of times the European contingent doesn't really get solidified until you
00:53:03get even closer to the breeders cup than we are now.
00:53:05Even after British champions day.
00:53:07I mean,
00:53:08we know about city of Troy.
00:53:09We know good dolphins keen on notable speech coming over for the mile.
00:53:14I've read about big Evs coming for the turf sprint and his young mate,
00:53:18big Mojo for the juvenile turf sprint,
00:53:21maybe fact to her Cheval for the classic.
00:53:25He's American owned now.
00:53:26So what are some of the other European horses?
00:53:29If you have your ear to the ground about that might,
00:53:32we might be looking,
00:53:33looking forward to seeing for the breeders cup.
00:53:36Well,
00:53:37I gather Ramatuel is coming from France for the breeders cup mile as well.
00:53:42So notable speech actually have a,
00:53:44a workout on Saturday morning on the,
00:53:46on the race course at new market.
00:53:48And he's looking in great order.
00:53:50And that's obviously,
00:53:51as you say,
00:53:52been his long stated aim to try to get his trainer,
00:53:55Charlie,
00:53:56his fourth consecutive breeders cup mile win,
00:53:58which will be quite something.
00:53:59But Ramatuel absolutely,
00:54:01you know,
00:54:02she's been a filly that has been absolutely sort of knocking on the door all
00:54:06season in the top races.
00:54:08And then was extremely impressive in the Prix de la foray on update.
00:54:12Now that's seven furlongs,
00:54:14but she can definitely cope with the mile as well.
00:54:19And her trainer,
00:54:21Christopher head son of the legendary Freddie head is,
00:54:25is absolutely intent on bringing her to America.
00:54:28And that's,
00:54:29I think she'd be a very interesting contender there along with,
00:54:32I'm presuming Porter Fortuna,
00:54:34who has been,
00:54:35you know,
00:54:36an absolute revelation this season in,
00:54:37in the top mile races.
00:54:38She's an absolute standout Philly and American owned as well.
00:54:43And it was obviously over the last year or two.
00:54:45So for Donika O'Brien,
00:54:47I'm sure she'll be returning.
00:54:48And then I think possibly in the,
00:54:51in the turf,
00:54:52we could look out for J.
00:54:54R.
00:54:55B.
00:54:56Who is a group two winner here.
00:54:57He's a decent horse.
00:54:58He was second to economics in the summer in Deauville.
00:55:01And he's trained by Brian Meehan.
00:55:03He's won the turf twice with dangerous midge and obviously red rocks,
00:55:08of course.
00:55:09So,
00:55:10you know,
00:55:11he's a,
00:55:12he's a trainer that loves to,
00:55:13loves to aim at the breeders cup when he's got a good one.
00:55:15And J.
00:55:16R.
00:55:17B.
00:55:18Is a horse that needs to take another step forward,
00:55:19but that seems to be the plan for him to come for the turf as well.
00:55:21Thanks for that.
00:55:23Yeah.
00:55:24Thanks for the pronunciation on Rama two L,
00:55:26by the way,
00:55:27I was,
00:55:28I was wondering about that.
00:55:29I've got one more question.
00:55:31I just happened to like pop on your Twitter before we got on.
00:55:34Who are rattlesnakes?
00:55:36Oh,
00:55:37yeah.
00:55:38And I can't believe it was an album rattlesnakes.
00:55:43It was the first album for Lloyd Cole and the commotions.
00:55:46And I'm really showing my age now that that's one of my favorite albums of
00:55:49all time.
00:55:50And it's his 40th anniversary this week.
00:55:52So there we go.
00:55:53I have to look it up.
00:55:55And you too.
00:55:56That's that's you,
00:55:57Randy rattlesnakes.
00:55:58Let's look it up.
00:55:59Have we transitioned to music now?
00:56:01Is that where we are?
00:56:03Okay.
00:56:04Rattlesnake.
00:56:05I haven't heard of that horse.
00:56:06There's a good name for horse.
00:56:10I might use that in the future.
00:56:11Yeah,
00:56:12there is.
00:56:13There is a horse over here that was called rattlesnake.
00:56:15I think he's been retired right now.
00:56:17Okay.
00:56:18All right.
00:56:20Well,
00:56:21Emma,
00:56:22thank you so much for joining us.
00:56:23And we'll see you next week.
00:56:24News.
00:56:25You can use.
00:56:26You had Emma Berry.
00:56:27Talk about some of night of thunders runners in the upcoming British
00:56:30champions day.
00:56:31And what a year he's having his three-year-old cult economics won the
00:56:35grade one,
00:56:36Irish champion stakes and desert flower took the grade one Phillies mile on
00:56:40Friday.
00:56:41He is also the sire of the brilliant Royal Ascot winner,
00:56:44fairy godmother.
00:56:45And the undefeated exciting grade three stakes winner on Budsman.
00:56:50They are among 16 stakes winners.
00:56:52He had in 2024,
00:56:54a year in which he also notched his first $1 million euro
00:56:59yearling.
00:57:00He is most definitely a sire on the rise.
00:57:04He's definitely the heir apparent to Dubai from what I've seen.
00:57:21Desert fly.
00:57:22We'll remain off beaten.
00:57:23Be a smarter,
00:57:24better with XB TV,
00:57:25the best horses with thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
00:57:50All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
00:57:54Everything you need to be informed.
00:57:57Be smart.
00:57:58That's smart with XB TV.
00:58:02The TDN writer's room is brought to you by XB TV.
00:58:08And this week's XB TV work of the week is nice.
00:58:11Remember him,
00:58:12Randy,
00:58:13nobody's heard from him forever.
00:58:15Well,
00:58:16he's still here and here he is working on the outside with the yellow
00:58:19cap,
00:58:20having his first work back since winning the Robert B.
00:58:22Lewis stakes on February the third,
00:58:24he worked half a mile in 47 and three in company with a buffer,
00:58:28three-year-old Philly.
00:58:29Her name is her loan.
00:58:30Nice.
00:58:31Hoses one,
00:58:32all three of his lifetime starts,
00:58:34including back-to-back grade three stakes.
00:58:36Bob Buffett said no plans have been formed yet regarding his last
00:58:40start.
00:58:41Now,
00:58:42right after nice.
00:58:43Those Eagles flight also worked for trainer,
00:58:45John Sadler,
00:58:46having his first work back as well.
00:58:48So lots of things going on at Santa Anita.
00:58:52Well,
00:58:53the big racing returns to Keeneland this weekend,
00:58:55where you have two major stakes races,
00:58:57the Perryville and the Raven run.
00:58:59Perryville is a very interesting race with some really fast horses in
00:59:03there.
00:59:04As everyone knows,
00:59:05I'm the president of the book,
00:59:06I'm Dano fan club.
00:59:07So I'm obviously going to pick him and you wouldn't like him for a
00:59:10couple of reasons.
00:59:11Even if you weren't a member of our fan club,
00:59:13the horse is a grade one winner.
00:59:15His numbers is buyer numbers.
00:59:17He throws in those hundreds,
00:59:19101,
00:59:20104.
00:59:21Nobody else in this field does that.
00:59:22How about the way this horse is working?
00:59:24October 5th at mom at five for longs in 57 and two,
00:59:28but there's some tough horses in there.
00:59:30He's got to be Knightsbridge is a very interesting.
00:59:32Again,
00:59:33doesn't have the figures that book.
00:59:34I'm Dano has,
00:59:35but two for two for Bill mob has had lost a lot of time between
00:59:38races.
00:59:39They've been spaced out,
00:59:40but the son of Nike was,
00:59:41is obviously a very talented horse,
00:59:43but no surprise.
00:59:46I'm going for book.
00:59:47I'm Dano.
00:59:50You are not only the president of the book,
00:59:52I'm Dano fan club.
00:59:54You're the CEO,
00:59:55the founder.
00:59:57Yeah.
00:59:58For good reason.
00:59:59I mean,
01:00:00we've been talking about book.
01:00:01I'm Dano since forever.
01:00:02Young beat him in a photo in the Saudi Derby.
01:00:06I mean,
01:00:07way back in February,
01:00:08I'm trying to do a speed figure for the Saudi Derby.
01:00:11Right.
01:00:12And it,
01:00:13he,
01:00:14and it kept coming up based on some of the American horses over
01:00:16there.
01:00:17It kept coming up at 100 and people were telling me,
01:00:20it can't be 100.
01:00:21He only beat book.
01:00:22I'm Dano and New Jersey bread by a head.
01:00:24And I'm like,
01:00:25I don't care,
01:00:26but I know how fast they ran in this race and book.
01:00:29I'm Dano ran a 100,
01:00:31the equivalent of a 100 buyer speed figure.
01:00:33And I was,
01:00:34I,
01:00:35Bill,
01:00:36I was on the book.
01:00:37I'm Dano soapbox because of that way back in February.
01:00:39And in his three races since then,
01:00:42it's been nothing,
01:00:43but triple digit buyer speed figures in his last race,
01:00:46the Jerkins,
01:00:47you know,
01:00:48I think you can make the case that he ran even better than his
01:00:52one Oh four buyer speed figure would indicate.
01:00:55I given the fact that he was so far back early in the race,
01:00:59eight and a half links back.
01:01:00I mean,
01:01:01what a,
01:01:02what a really nice resource.
01:01:04This has turned out to be.
01:01:05And I think they're doing the right thing by him since he's a
01:01:08three-year-old he's a Jersey bread.
01:01:10He's a gelding.
01:01:11They want to keep him running to forego the breeders cup this
01:01:16year and focus on a little more,
01:01:19maybe,
01:01:20you know,
01:01:21longevity to his career.
01:01:22Knightsbridge is a fascinating horse.
01:01:23Henro is not a bad horse either for your exotics.
01:01:26The rail is not the best place to be in a seven furlong stakes
01:01:30anywhere,
01:01:31but he's 12 to one in the morning line.
01:01:34He's coming off a 97 buyer in a race at Churchill,
01:01:38the Harrods Creek.
01:01:39And he's had a couple of other 90 plus speed figs.
01:01:43So I love this race.
01:01:45I mean,
01:01:46this is a really,
01:01:47really interesting race with some with some very promising horses
01:01:51going forward,
01:01:52even locked in there making his first start since he was third
01:01:55behind fierceness and move in the breeders cup juvenile.
01:01:58But I don't think he's as much of a seven eight source as he is
01:02:02a distance source.
01:02:03They're just using this race.
01:02:04I think to get him to get him started again.
01:02:06Great race.
01:02:07Yeah,
01:02:08absolutely.
01:02:09Okay.
01:02:10So the ninth race is the Raven run.
01:02:11And this race has produced a breeders cup winner in 2018.
01:02:15Shamrock Rose won it and then ran back and won the breeders cup
01:02:19Philly and mayor sprint.
01:02:20Same thing though.
01:02:21You have three-year-old Phillies in here.
01:02:22And we've been talking about throughout the show that the American
01:02:25trainers are not keen on running three-year-olds against older horses in
01:02:29these big races,
01:02:30unless they're just totally standout this race,
01:02:33as Randy mentioned,
01:02:35didn't come up quite as tough as Perryville.
01:02:37I'm kind of like Emory.
01:02:38The horse was on a three race losing streak and lost last time out the
01:02:42ways and means in the test.
01:02:44I mean, there's no,
01:02:45there's no knocking that kind of performance.
01:02:48He ran against a very fast horse and I don't see anybody else in here to
01:02:52really get too excited about Emory on the figures on the buyer numbers is
01:02:56definitely among the fastest horses in the race.
01:02:59Was that another one?
01:03:00I was taking a look at my main squeeze.
01:03:02Mike maker is so ice cold.
01:03:05It's unbelievable.
01:03:06These PPS were printed up on looking into Tuesday.
01:03:10So we'll change by the time the race comes up,
01:03:12but he's over 17 at Keeneland with one second and no thirds.
01:03:19He's now one for 19 on the updated formulator DRF past performances,
01:03:25but your point is still well taken for a trainer like Mike maker,
01:03:29who you can pretty reliably count on to be,
01:03:32to win at a much higher percentage than that,
01:03:34especially on the turf forces going along.
01:03:36That's a bit unusual.
01:03:38My main squeeze is been a,
01:03:41an outstanding New York bread who has been very well tested against open
01:03:48company.
01:03:49One of the eight bells this year and beat Impel.
01:03:51If you remember,
01:03:52that was a Juddmont Brad Cox horse.
01:03:54That was a heavy favorite.
01:03:56If I recall in that particular race in my main squeeze,
01:03:59just beat her on the up and up.
01:04:01And she just comes off a five length,
01:04:03went in the dogwood last time out with a decent buyer.
01:04:06So I think,
01:04:07I think the morning line and you as well,
01:04:09Bill,
01:04:10I think in my opinion,
01:04:11those are the two horses to focus on there.
01:04:13BVS dream for Kenny McPeak was very highly touted when she was running
01:04:19against Tarifa at the fairgrounds this winter.
01:04:21She's kind of just getting rolling again,
01:04:24but Emory and my main squeeze on paper,
01:04:27I think look like the two best in there.
01:04:29A couple of very prominent jockeys reached a big milestone last week.
01:04:33Both I read our teas and Paco Lopez picked up their 4,000 winners.
01:04:37Congratulations to them.
01:04:39But I was looking at the totals and playing around with the numbers and it
01:04:42made me realize they say records are meant to be broken.
01:04:45Not this one.
01:04:46Russell Bays has won 12,842 winners.
01:04:50Now you say,
01:04:51okay,
01:04:52I read is a young guy.
01:04:53He's got a lot of years left.
01:04:55He wins a ton of races.
01:04:57Certainly he's going to be up there and going after base because like I said,
01:05:00he's one of the best jockeys of all time.
01:05:02No,
01:05:03he averages 285 winners a year.
01:05:06It would take him 31 years at this rate to catch Russell Bays.
01:05:12And the difference is this is what we see because there's so much less racing.
01:05:16Now,
01:05:17I'm sure in Russell Bays in the heyday of Russell Bays is era that wherever he
01:05:21was riding,
01:05:22probably in Northern California,
01:05:23there would be at least five days of racing,
01:05:25maybe six.
01:05:26Now everybody runs two and three days.
01:05:28So the jockeys don't get that kind of opportunity.
01:05:30And,
01:05:31you know,
01:05:32Paco with his 4,000,
01:05:33he's not ever going to come close to it,
01:05:35to these guys.
01:05:36But you know,
01:05:37that's,
01:05:38that's it.
01:05:39There's records that may not be broken.
01:05:40I can't see any,
01:05:41I can't see anyone even passing shoemaker.
01:05:43He's got 88,
01:05:4433.
01:05:45That's a really interesting point you brought up,
01:05:47Bill.
01:05:49Before how the,
01:05:50uh,
01:05:51the fewer racing days that we're seeing now might impact some of these
01:05:56jockey records and all that you could,
01:05:58I mean,
01:05:59you could take that to other extremes,
01:06:01right?
01:06:02You could say that,
01:06:03uh,
01:06:04okay.
01:06:05With smaller fields now than there were back in the day,
01:06:08it makes it easier for jockeys to win races because they have fewer horses
01:06:13to beat in each individual race.
01:06:15But I don't know where you would,
01:06:17uh,
01:06:18where you would end with that.
01:06:19Russell Bay's obviously dominated the Northern California circuit to an extent
01:06:24that no other jockey dominated any other circuit with the possible exception of
01:06:29Pat day in Kentucky way back in the day.
01:06:32So it's going to be really tough to be Russell Bay's his records.
01:06:35But yeah,
01:06:36when you're in the middle of a situation like this,
01:06:40where I rad is winning so many races at it,
01:06:46at a major circuit,
01:06:47like Naira,
01:06:48I think sometimes you tend to not appreciate it as much as,
01:06:52as maybe we would when we look back to,
01:06:55you know,
01:06:56Penn,
01:06:57Chi and Eddie Della,
01:06:58who's saying Chris McCarron and Gary Stevens and Jerry Bailey and all of
01:07:01these jockeys,
01:07:02uh,
01:07:03from,
01:07:04uh,
01:07:05the old days,
01:07:06so to speak,
01:07:07but I rad's right up there in terms of what he's been able to accomplish.
01:07:09Will he be able to catch Russell Bay's?
01:07:11I agree with you.
01:07:12That's going to be a tough,
01:07:13tough road to go down.
01:07:16Normally,
01:07:17when we talk about jockeys,
01:07:18I look to my left because Bailey is sitting right here.
01:07:21I say,
01:07:22Jerry,
01:07:23you,
01:07:24you take,
01:07:25you take all the jockey conversation and I'll stick to the horses,
01:07:27but that's a really interesting point.
01:07:29The TD and writer's room also brought to you by West point thoroughbreds,
01:07:33which dipped into the European sales market,
01:07:36requiring the group place two-year-old revolution air at the arc sale on
01:07:40October the fifth revolution.
01:07:42Air will soon join the Christophe Clement barn and Miguel Clement.
01:07:46Of course,
01:07:47in America,
01:07:48you'll see all of West points,
01:07:49recent additions.
01:07:50If you go to www.westpointtb.com,
01:07:55speaking of look,
01:07:56Cle,
01:07:57uh,
01:07:58Clement barn on Saturday,
01:07:59they will have another representative for West point at the national steeple
01:08:03chase association,
01:08:04the NSA card at far Hills,
01:08:06New Jersey,
01:08:07where winning spirit will compete over two miles on the flat.
01:08:11And the $150,000 John Forbes memorial stakes.
01:08:16Then the next day transition back to,
01:08:19uh,
01:08:20the normal racing that we like to cover the,
01:08:22uh,
01:08:23we're atomic blonde.
01:08:24We'll take on a full field on the grade three Dowager stakes at Keeneland,
01:08:28a lot on the table for West point thoroughbreds.
01:08:33All the thrills
01:08:37fraction of the bills.
01:08:42Experience the power of the partnership.
01:08:48Change your life,
01:08:49make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred race.
01:08:55West point thoroughbreds,
01:08:56the gold standard and racing partnerships.
01:08:59Visit westpointtb.com.
01:09:04Well,
01:09:05that is a wrap on this week's show.
01:09:06I want to thank my partners,
01:09:07Randy Moss,
01:09:08Zoe cabins.
01:09:09I had to duck out a little bit early,
01:09:10but that's okay.
01:09:11Uh,
01:09:12our guest of the week,
01:09:13Mike Smith and our editors and producers,
01:09:15Katie Petroniak,
01:09:16Anthony Laroca and Alia Laroca.
01:09:18Hope you enjoyed listening this week.
01:09:20Catch up with you again next week.