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00:00:00For the love of the horse. For generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, a huge Boston
00:00:35Red Sox fan. And by the way, they're off to a 7-3 start. And I co-host the Down the Stretch
00:00:41radio show with Dave Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:44How you guys doing? I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:50TD Thornton checking in from a little north of Boston today. I'm a stablemate of Bill's
00:00:54at Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:56All right, so that's our lineup for this week. Zoe Cadman has the week off, and we'll miss
00:01:00her, of course, and have her back next week. All right. This is the time of year, you know,
00:01:04we have so much to talk about with the big three-year-old preps. This was the last weekend
00:01:09of major preps for the Kentucky Derby. The Lexington is coming up, but that's somewhat
00:01:14of a minor race, though. Horses might be able to pick up a few points, which could change
00:01:19the equation. Going into this weekend, I thought the Keeneland race, the Bluegrass, was the
00:01:24most going to be the most important race. And as it turned out, I think that was the
00:01:30way it did turn out. If anybody read my column in the TDN this morning, I raved about Sierra
00:01:36Leone. I thought his race was fantastic. And I think that he, and not fierceness, is the
00:01:43horse to beat in the Kentucky Derby for a lot of reasons. I was really impressed by
00:01:47his race, but he just looks like a horse that's going to relish the mile and a quarter. He
00:01:53can close. He can come from off the pace. Might be pace dependent. If they go very slow,
00:01:58he'll have a problem on his hands. But I don't think I'm going to change my mind. I loved
00:02:03his race, and he's my Kentucky Derby pick. Randy, how about you?
00:02:08Look, I really liked his race, too. He's still lugging in a little bit when he comes down
00:02:12the stretch, but heck, he has such a full head of steam going at that point that it
00:02:16doesn't seem to be any kind of an issue at all. I will say this. The pace of the Bluegrass
00:02:24Stakes absolutely flattered him. When you look at the major Kentucky Derby preps, I'm
00:02:31talking about those 100-point-to-the-winner preps, the track surface was slower for the
00:02:37Bluegrass Stakes than it was for the Santa Anita Derby, for the Wood Memorial, for the
00:02:42Florida Derby, for all those made for the Arkansas Derby. And yet, the pace of the
00:02:47Bluegrass Stakes was faster. It was a very, very robust early pace, especially by Keeneland
00:02:55standards at a mile and an eighth. And that did help Sierra Leone, and it did work to
00:03:01the disadvantage of Just a Touch, who was right up there on the pace. You got the sense,
00:03:07and also from post-race comments from Florent Giroux riding Just a Touch, that their strategy
00:03:15was going to be to go out for the lead, thinking they could get a fairly comfortable early
00:03:18lead. But the other Chad Brownhorse, Top Connor, came blasting out of there from the inside
00:03:23post position, and the result was a very, very contentious pace. So I think we need
00:03:28to give a little extra credit to Just a Touch when we go forward now to the Kentucky Derby.
00:03:33And I think I'll revise my thinking somewhat, what I said on NBC this past weekend. I think
00:03:40it's really a big four now when you're looking at the Kentucky Derby picture. I think it's
00:03:44fierceness, I think in no particular order. I think it's fierceness, I think it's Sierra
00:03:48Leone, I think it's the Japanese horse forever young, and I think it's Just a Touch, given
00:03:53the way he ran in the Bluegrass.
00:03:56And the way that Sierra Leone finished up visually, it certainly sticks out in your
00:04:01mind there. I mean, this is a horse who was a little bit skittish and a little hesitant
00:04:04to load into that outside stall, likely attributable to breaking right up against a very energetic
00:04:10opening weekend crowd there, and that kind of caught his attention. But Tyler Gaff Leone
00:04:16settled down Sierra Leone, dropped him right onto the rail, and he made that big five furlong
00:04:20move that we've seen win derbies in the past. He can unfurl from farther out than anybody
00:04:26else we've seen so far who's a major contender. But Randy, you spoke about the pace. They
00:04:31went fast early. They also finished up very slowly. That final eighth in 13.43 of the
00:04:38nine furlong races that have been run in 2023-24 that award derby points, that's the slowest
00:04:45final furlong.
00:04:47Does anybody want to give another chance to Dornach after his performance finishing fourth
00:04:52in there? He will go on to the Kentucky Derby. The only thing, I certainly wouldn't pick
00:04:56him in the Derby, and I think this was a disappointing effort from him, but did the idea of we're
00:05:02going to take him off the pace, didn't take him way back, but on paper he looked like
00:05:06he should have gone to the front. They experimented. They took him off the pace. It didn't work.
00:05:11Do you give him a mulligan for that? Frankly, I don't want to.
00:05:15I don't want to either because if they had sent him, the pace was already very fast.
00:05:19If they had sent him to the lead or tried to get him to the lead, then he would have
00:05:22been burned up. He would have been another element into the speed duel. They wanted him
00:05:27off the pace in the Florida Derby, and the talk before that was, oh, he would have run
00:05:30much better if we could have gotten him off the pace.
00:05:33Well, we saw what happened when I got him off the pace. He was a little keen down on
00:05:36the inside, didn't seem to be comfortable at any point during the running of the race.
00:05:40One more thing about the pace of the Bluegrass Stakes. Yeah, you can say, okay, that flattered
00:05:47Sierra Leone. You can say, okay, he may not be quite as good as he looked in that race
00:05:55just because they went so fast early. But then you got to keep in mind, we're talking
00:05:59about this in context of the Kentucky Derby. When is there ever a slow pace in the Kentucky
00:06:04Derby? Almost never. So you know the pace is going to be contentious for Sierra Leone
00:06:10when you get to Churchill Downs. You know he's going to love the mile and a quarter.
00:06:14And Danny Gargan is already talking about trying to send Dornoch to the lead in the
00:06:17Kentucky Derby now that he's found out that he doesn't really relish being behind horses.
00:06:22So that's just going to add another element to what is almost always a fairly robust pace.
00:06:28But still, given that pace scenario, there's always the danger of falling in love with
00:06:33your derby horse who's a deep, deep closer, who's either going to have to come around
00:06:37horses in a 20-horse field or weave his way through. Eight of the last 10 horses who crossed
00:06:43the finish wire first in the Derby, and we're not counting the disqualifications in there,
00:06:47the two of them, the eight of the last 10 were either on the lead or just off of it.
00:06:52And horses who did come from off the pace, like Mage and Rich Strike two years ago, they
00:06:58both had gift trips just weaving through, you know, everything parted for them, everything
00:07:02worked out the right way. So there is always that inherent danger of falling in love with
00:07:06a closer as your derby horse. As I look at the Florida Derby and as I look forward to
00:07:11the Kentucky Derby, the pace when it comes to fierceness has got to be a huge factor,
00:07:16D.D. I mean, he loped along on the lead in the Florida Derby. You know, granted, it was
00:07:20a great race. He won by 13 and a half lengths, but he got a perfect trip there. He's not
00:07:26going to get that kind of trip in the Kentucky Derby. He may not get a bad trip. He might
00:07:31not get into a speed duel where they go 45 to the half. But I just can't see him duplicating
00:07:37the Florida Derby trip in the Kentucky Derby. And I think that's going to be to his disadvantage.
00:07:43I would have to agree with you on that. And I think even to underscore that point a little
00:07:47further, he just closed as the five to two favorite in the Derby future pool that quartered
00:07:53on Saturday for a race that was still a month away at the time that that pool closed. And
00:07:59five to two might be a price that in a futures bet that is lower than his actual mutual in
00:08:04that on Derby Day itself. I would agree with that. Yeah. How would you like to be taking
00:08:08two and a half to one on a horse who gets buried down in post one or fanned way out
00:08:11in post 20? We don't know the draw yet. So I think that's an extremely underlayed price
00:08:19on looking at the past performances, Bill, the expected Derby starters based on what
00:08:25they've done so far, there are four horses you can expect to show speed track phantom
00:08:30who would probably be your most likely pace setter, right? Doorknob, because Danny Gargan
00:08:34says he wants him up there on the pace, fierceness and just a touch. Other than that, most of
00:08:40the horses are either, you know, stalkers through four lengths off the pace or mid pack
00:08:45or or further back. Also, at Keeneland, as they opened up their spring stand, of course,
00:08:51was Friday's Ashland stakes, the only grade one prep for the Kentucky Oaks, where there
00:08:58is four grade one preps for the Kentucky Derby. That's a subject for another day, but
00:09:02maybe a little bit unfair to the ladies. It was a loaded race. It had I do the top 10
00:09:10in the Oaks. Well, TD does these run down for the Kentucky Derby horses. Four of my
00:09:14top 10 horses were in that race. You had just FYI, making her first start since winning
00:09:20the Breeders' Cup Juvenile in the championship last year. You had Impel, who everybody was
00:09:25so high on. But Leslie's Rose, I wouldn't say she was overlooked, but she was a horse
00:09:32that hadn't quite lived up to that billing. She was another seven figure buy at the sales.
00:09:39So you have the two point three million dollar horse win the Bluegrass. I believe she was
00:09:43one point one five million to win the Ashland. So, you know, the people spending the big
00:09:48money certainly got it right. It was a loaded race. She ran great. I think that she'll be
00:09:54one of the top contenders in the Kentucky Oaks. Just FYI, first race off a long layoff,
00:10:00had to miss a design prep because of a little setback. She certainly could improve. And
00:10:06Impel, third, didn't run badly, but she doesn't have enough points to get into the
00:10:11Kentucky Oaks. So the Impel story is to be written another day, you know, maybe in races
00:10:17like the Alabama or coaching club or something like that. Still think she's a high quality
00:10:21but looking at the point situation, I don't see any way she gets into the race.
00:10:26And, you know, when we talked about Leslie's Rose about a month ago when she ran a subpar
00:10:31third in the Devona Dale, she was beaten at three to ten odds. And we had talked on the
00:10:36podcast about how she looked very uncomfortable being buried down at the rail. Well, she got
00:10:40another rail trip on Friday in the in the Ashland. But this time, I read Ortiz tipped
00:10:45her out three wide rather than coming up the fence. And it was a little shocked that she
00:10:49went off at nine to one based on that. I was surprised as well about Leslie's Rose
00:10:55being a nine to one shot in there, because if you give her that excuse in the Devona
00:10:58Dale and you go back to her previous start, she had a four wide trip. She ran fast. I
00:11:03mean, based on that, you would have to like her about as much as Impel. I thought Impel
00:11:08had a beautiful trip sitting second just off the hip of the leader in slow fractions. I
00:11:14thought she had no excuse at all. So I was a little bit disappointed in the way she ran.
00:11:19Look, I think Leslie's Rose is a legitimate Kentucky Oaks contender in a race that's really
00:11:26gotten better and better and better as the weeks have progressed. Tarifa ran fast in
00:11:31the fairgrounds. Where's my ring? Look good in the gazelle power squeeze. Look really
00:11:35good in the Gulf Stream Oaks and ways and means who had a bad trip in that race is sitting
00:11:40right now at number 15 in the Oaks leaderboard. So you would have to think she'll probably
00:11:46get in. Then you got Torpedo Anna, Leslie's Rose, just FYI. It's shaping up as a pretty
00:11:53solid Kentucky Oaks. I'm just glad that Zoe's not here this week because she would be she
00:12:00would be crowing. I think right now she and I had a horse for horse bet. I did not think
00:12:06just FYI could win. At least I was right about that. But we went horse for horse, just FYI
00:12:11versus Impel. She beat me by three quarters of the length. There's alcohol involved in there.
00:12:16I've got to buy her some sort. Knowing Zoe, she'll probably go for Opus One, but I'm hoping
00:12:21it's a little bit, it's a little bit more reasonable. Yes. So you will be hitting the
00:12:27local liquor stores to buy Miss Cadman a very nice gift. And she was she was adamant. I mean,
00:12:32the horse didn't win, but she boy, she was not taking any, not swallowing the Kool-Aid on Impel.
00:12:39Not at all. So anyway, so that wraps up the big weekend of racing at Keeneland. And speaking of
00:12:46Keeneland, we want to let you know that the TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:12:50Keeneland Spring Meet is in full swing. Action will pick up again this week on Wednesday,
00:12:55April 10th. The Spring Meet concludes on April 26th, which is also the date of the April Selected
00:13:00Horses of Racing Age Sale. Entries for the September Yearling Sale are now open. The sale
00:13:04will start Monday, September 9, and the entry deadline is May 1. We'll be right back after this
00:13:08message from Keeneland. When the Spring Meet ends, summer success begins. Buy. Sell. Fresh winners.
00:13:20Hot prospects. One night. One chance. Finish strong. Don't miss out. The Keeneland April
00:13:30Selected Horses of Racing Age Sale. Friday, April 26th.
00:14:00This week on the TDN Riders Room, we welcome a new advertiser, Pleasant Acre Stallions in
00:14:15Ocala, Florida, a 400-acre property which is home to 13 stallions, including Simplification.
00:14:21You'll remember Simplification as the winner of the Grade 2 Fountain of Youth and Mucho Macho
00:14:25Man Stakes at Gulfstream. From the immediate family of multiple Grade 1 winner and champion
00:14:29Ashado, Simplification was third in the Grade 1 Florida Derby and fourth in the Kentucky Derby.
00:14:34He is the son of Not This Time, who stands in Kentucky for $150,000. You can breed to
00:14:38Simplification for just $6,500. TD, what do you remember about Simplification's racing career?
00:14:44I'll tell you, I do remember something about him. I had him pegged as about a 15-to-1 shot in the
00:14:50Kentucky Derby off his Florida prep races. I just remember him going off at an astronomically
00:14:57higher price. He was 35-to-1. That was a case where sometimes you bet the horse,
00:15:02sometimes you bet the price. Even though he was about fourth or fifth down on my list of
00:15:06contenders, I jumped in with both fists and backed him at 35-to-1. He was 15th in the Derby,
00:15:13came with a big four-wide move around the turn. He was in it to win it at the eighth pole,
00:15:17but just didn't have that spark. I guess I had the wrong long shot because that was
00:15:21the year that Rich Strike won at 80-to-1. Meanwhile, the Fastest Horse of the Week
00:15:26segment brought to you again by one of the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm, the only stallion at
00:15:30Windstar, actually the only stallion in the world, who is a son of the Red Hawk Constitution
00:15:35and as a racehorse, was precocious enough to be undefeated as a two-year-old. That would be
00:15:40Independence Hall as a two-year-old. He won both his starts, including the Grade 3 National
00:15:45by a combined 17.5 lengths. Then he added a win on New Year's Day in the Jerome at Aqueduct. He
00:15:50got a 101 buyer in the Nashua, the highest that year for any two-year-old. He came back as a
00:15:56four-year-old to run a 105 buyer, winning the Grade 2 Fayette at Keeneland. Independence Hall
00:16:01has his first yearlings this year and he stands at Windstar for $10,000. The Fastest Horse of the
00:16:08Week came courtesy of a Thursday allowance race, a sprint at Aqueduct. That would be Joey
00:16:15Freshwater, four-year-old son of Jimmy Creed, trained by Linda Rice, who was eligible for the
00:16:19non-winners of three other than condition, scored by three and three-quarters lengths under Jose
00:16:23Lascano, six-foot-longs, 109.57 seconds. Joey Freshwater, a sometimes anxious and quirky colt,
00:16:33best known for winning the Grade 3 Bayshore Stakes almost exactly a year ago at Aqueduct.
00:16:39That was four races after he was claimed for $50,000 as a two-year-old by winning Move Stables.
00:16:43Steve Sigler, Joey Freshwater, clicking on all cylinders last week. Career-high buyer speed
00:16:48figure of 105. One more thing briefly. Last week, I mentioned my trivia question. We were talking
00:16:55about fierceness in his 110 buyer speed figure in the Florida Derby. And remember, I asked when the
00:17:01last time any horse in the field of the Kentucky Derby had run a career-high buyer speed figure
00:17:08as high as 110. I said, we have the answer at the end of the show. I forgot. So I've given you a
00:17:13whole week to think about it. The correct answer would be another horse trained by Todd Fletcher,
00:17:18ridden by John Velasquez in the Florida Derby. And that would be Materiality,
00:17:23who won the 2015 Florida Derby with a 110 buyer speed figure,
00:17:28then got in trouble at the start in American Pharaohs Kentucky Derby and ran sixth.
00:17:32I could not have come up with that one in a million years. My goodness. Old rabbit hole
00:17:43Randy strikes again. All right. So let's turn our attention to the other two big three-year-old prep
00:17:49races for the Kentucky Derby. The Wood Memorial. This is a race that's fallen on hard times.
00:17:55There's no couching that. It's now a grade two. No horse has won the Wood Memorial and come back
00:18:01to win the Kentucky Derby since Fusachi Pegasus in 2000. And I don't think any of that is going
00:18:06to change this year. I think because it's a grade two now, that's really hurt it because you have
00:18:13all these other grade one options. Why would people want to run in a grade two when there's
00:18:17all these other, again, options out there? But the race was won by Resilience. And to me, part
00:18:23of the story will take me back to one of the reasons why I like Sierra Leone so much. Resilience
00:18:29was fourth in the Risen Star, beaten by Sierra Leone. He comes back off that key race and gets
00:18:37into the winner's circle in a, you know, a watered-down Wood Memorial. Deterministic didn't
00:18:42run a step. I don't know what happened there. How about Danny Gargan? He's got Doorknock. He's also
00:18:47got Society Man with a hundred and six to one. Ran second to earn some points to get into the
00:18:54Kentucky Derby. Yeah, I think that'll tell you pretty much, I think, what you need to know
00:18:59about the Wood Memorial. It was not a particularly strong race. Resilience ran a good race and he was
00:19:05clearly the best horse in the race, but looking ahead to the Kentucky Derby, he'll probably be 15
00:19:10or 20 to one. The runner-up was 106 to one. The third place horse was 38 to one. The fourth place
00:19:15horse was 80 to one. No horse has come out of the Wood Memorial to win the Kentucky Derby
00:19:21since Funnyside, who was second to Empire Maker in the Wood and won the Kentucky Derby 21 years
00:19:27ago, way back in 2003. I would love to see the Wood Memorial take a bold step and go to three
00:19:34weeks out from the Kentucky Derby. It might get it out of those grade two doldrums. It is kind of
00:19:39the weak sister of the three races that are on that first Saturday in April among the Bluegrass
00:19:44Stakes, the Santa Anita Derby, and the Wood. I think if you move it to three weeks out, you give trainers
00:19:49and owners a chance to pick up some points. It'll draw 14 horses every year if you run it three
00:19:55weeks out, and maybe the quality will improve as well. Actually, I think that's a great idea, T.D.,
00:20:00and one other thing I want to get, as I'm now the president of the Sierra Leone Fan Club,
00:20:04also coming out of the Risen Star Stakes was Catching Freedom, who was third, and he won
00:20:10the Louisiana Derby. So right now, the Risen Star is a serious key race with the Sierra Leone
00:20:17getting the job done. All right, Santa Anita, you know, go to the Santa Anita Derby. The
00:20:22whole situation in California is so discombobulated because of the Bob Baffert
00:20:27factor. I think it had looked at one time that maybe you would not get a single Southern
00:20:33California horse into the Kentucky Derby because Baffert had them all, and they're, barring a big
00:20:40win in court, he was not going to be able to get his horses into the Derby. Stronghold,
00:20:46he outgame Imagination. Phil D'Amato, who is another guy who, like Chad Brown, specializes
00:20:54in grass racing, but he got this horse into the Kentucky Derby with a nice win in the Santa Anita
00:21:00Derby, but Stronghold will not be somebody on my tickets come Derby Day. Yeah, this is a horse who
00:21:06has paired 89 buyer speed figures in his last two tries. He won the Sunland Derby, he won the Santa
00:21:12Anita Derby. In both of those races, he made the lead, then gave it up and had to reclaim the lead.
00:21:18While I do like to see some new blood and new connections in the Derby, I think Imagination,
00:21:23the runner-up, actually ran the better race of the two. He was up close to a fairly brisk pace,
00:21:30he went after the leader on the far turn, and he engaged in yet another, for Imagination,
00:21:36length of the stretch duel. He's had three of them in a row, he won one of them, the San Felipe,
00:21:40the other two he's only lost by a neck. We've all become familiar over our decades as handicappers
00:21:48with horses that don't want to separate from the field, that don't want to run away from other
00:21:53horses. They just want to hang right there, and they'll run down to the level of their competition
00:21:59as Imagination did in a maiden race when he was beaten in a photo finish, or they'll run up to
00:22:03the level of their competition like he did when he was going head and head with May Moon a couple
00:22:08of races back in that allowance race. He's just kind of the hanging sort of horse that doesn't
00:22:14want to run away from his competition. He had a beautiful trip coming to the top of the stretch,
00:22:18looked like he was going to kick away and win nicely. He got away from the field just for a
00:22:21second, and then he sort of waited on horses. Stronghold went by him, he picked it up again.
00:22:28So yeah, I mean, I think Imagination is a better horse probably, but I mean, look,
00:22:35Stronghold is going to be 25-30 to 1 in the Kentucky Derby, I think. So even though he's
00:22:40won two races in a row, he's not a major player in my eyes at this point. Another slow fourth quarter
00:22:49in a race. That was, in fact, they went just two hundredths of a second shy of going that final
00:22:54quarter split in the race in 26 seconds. They went 25-98. That is the slowest fourth quarter
00:23:02of a nine furlong prep race this season. So they didn't finish up all that swiftly.
00:23:06TDN Writer's Room, also brought to you by the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:23:11Here's a Pennsylvania Breeders Alert. April 30th is the deadline to nominate your two-year-old
00:23:17Pennsylvania sired Pennsylvania bred to that stallion series for $2420.25 at the $500 fee.
00:23:25The price will go up after that. That upcoming series will consist of two stakes races on each
00:23:30of three race days for the final of the three in the series. It'll be held in early 2025 for the
00:23:36first time for three-year-old colts and three-year-old fillies. Breeders are eligible
00:23:41for $50,000 in bonuses in that series. For more information, you can visit www.pabred.com.
00:23:50The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:23:55When you buy a yearling, it's a little bit like buying a lottery ticket. And we are trying to
00:23:59provide the lottery ticket that the likelihood is to hit the jackpot. Angel of Empire wins the
00:24:05Arkansas Derby and wins it clear. Uncle Heavy laid it's a photo finish! Pennsylvania and the PHBA have
00:24:13the best state-bred program in the country bar none. The winner, Uncle Heavy. He's a three-year-old
00:24:18bred in Pennsylvania. Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate-to-wire win in the
00:24:24Florida Derby. Champion three-year-old. Maximum Security has won the tbg.com Haskell Invitational.
00:24:3311 triple-digit bias. Maximum Security, he smoked them in the cigar mile. Grade one winning
00:24:40four-year-old. Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:24:48Maximum Security. Now it's time for the Coolmore Stallion of the week. And this week,
00:24:53that is Maximum Security. Maximum Security's first two-year-olds are selling at OBS April next week.
00:24:59Just a reminder of what kind of racehorse he was. Maximum Security was the champion three-year-old
00:25:04colt in the USA in 2019. A grade one winner at four. A winner of his only two-year-old start by
00:25:10nine and three-quarter lengths. First past the post in five grade ones. The cigar mile, Florida
00:25:15Derby, Haskell, Kentucky Derby, and the Pacific Classic. All in all, he racked up 11 triple-digit
00:25:21buyer numbers in 14 starts and won over distances from six to 10 furlongs. Maximum Security stands
00:25:27at Coolmore for a fee of $7,500. Green Group Guest of the Week is brought to you by the Green Group.
00:25:34We're taping this on Monday, April 8th. It's getting close to tax time, especially if you're
00:25:40in the thoroughbred industry. You're struggling with something right now when you're right up
00:25:43against the deadline about your taxes. It's not too late to reach out to Lynn Green and company
00:25:49at the Green Group. You can go to www.greenco.com for more information.
00:25:56We're pleased now to bring in the Green Group Guest of the Week, and it's a good one this week.
00:26:00The man of the hour over the weekend, Chad Brown, was winning races all up and down the map,
00:26:06but most importantly, of course, Sierra Lone winning the bluegrass, the Toyota Bluegrass,
00:26:11for Chad Brown. And Chad, as we start this off, I was kind of wondering what your mentality is,
00:26:17because I think some people feel that since you're so grass-oriented, that maybe the Kentucky
00:26:23Derby isn't all that big a deal to you. I'm sure it is, though, but could you explain that? How
00:26:29much the Derby means to you and why you don't necessarily go about it the same way, say,
00:26:33Todd Pletcher and Bob Baffert do? It's a high priority for us, a race we want to win. It's one
00:26:38of the few races we haven't won yet, me and my team. And yeah, I mean, I'm not sure what their
00:26:44approach really is. I just think I have maybe a different portfolio of horses to work with,
00:26:50as young horses and such, a lot of surf horses, a lot of fillies and stuff. So we probably don't
00:26:55have as... We definitely don't have as many candidates right off the bat come in. I have a
00:27:00lot of nice horses to work with, don't get me wrong, but a lot of jerk colts that can get the
00:27:04classic distances. They sort of whittle themselves down pretty quick when you're going through your
00:27:09baby. So, unfortunately, this year I have some really good candidates and it looks like two of
00:27:14them are going to get into the Derby. Yeah, and this group, this portfolio includes the $2.3
00:27:22million horse in Sierra Leone. I find it interesting, sort of the power coupling of
00:27:28Peter Brandt and Coolmore. I know Peter's been developing a relationship over the past decade
00:27:34or so with John Magner and with M.V. Magner. They both bought into Jack Christopher. Peter bought
00:27:41into Stone Age. But from what I understand, from what I've read, this particular colt, Sierra Leone,
00:27:48had quite the reputation with bloodstock agents even before he went through the sales ring.
00:27:53Can you kind of talk a little bit about how and why the partnership in this particular horse
00:27:58between Peter and Coolmore came to be? Well, we're a Saratoga, actually, and the Coolmore
00:28:05team's looking at all the yearlings and such and getting on their short list what they want.
00:28:11And Peter was looking to get a nice colt or two out of that sale. So, we do our work and then
00:28:18sort of match notes. And this is a horse that I really liked, Peter really liked, and it was a
00:28:24horse they liked, too, one of a few they liked. So, this was the one that we really wanted to be
00:28:29involved in. And at that sale, this is the only one that Peter did go in on. And he happened to
00:28:34be the most expensive. Before they sell, you don't really know. There were a few nice prospects in
00:28:38there. We didn't know he'd bring over $2 million. But this was really the top pick by a lot of
00:28:45people, including us. And oftentimes, it doesn't work out that way with yearlings, as you know.
00:28:49They change a lot. There's a lot of high-dollar horses that are slow. They don't have much
00:28:55ability and such. So, you don't really know. This horse is one of those rare horses that was always
00:29:00a beautiful horse, probably since birth, you'd have to imagine, and always a star, effectively
00:29:08bred. I mean, grade one winner on top and bottom, and never missed a beat, was never not at the top
00:29:15of everyone's list. From a yearling, when the horse was at the farm with all the other two-year-olds,
00:29:21he came into our barn. He was always the best one. So, you know, you got to go through a lot
00:29:27of horses to find one that's always at the head of the class at every grade.
00:29:32So, at that Saratoga sale, as the price kept going higher and higher,
00:29:36do you know who you were primarily bidding against at that point?
00:29:40I wasn't involved with the bidding. So, once we talk about it with Peter and the Coolmore group,
00:29:47you know, they take it from there with Paul Shanahan and Envy or whoever else is involved.
00:29:52And then, you know, I'm not involved in the bidding or the appraisal of the horse. They just
00:29:56decide at that point that they, you know, they want to pursue that horse and get them for that price.
00:30:01And I'm just a lucky recipient that then, you know, they told me right away I was going to get
00:30:06the horse. So, it was a very great result for me and he was immediately earmarked for me,
00:30:15which I was appreciative. Chad, we talked earlier in the show, before you came on,
00:30:19about the bluegrass stakes, but forget our assessments. We want to hear it straight from
00:30:23the trainer's mouth. What did you think of the bluegrass and how did Sierra Leone come out of it?
00:30:28Yeah, it came out of the race fine. You know, obviously, when he drew the outside post there,
00:30:33um, he was always going to look like he was going to be towards the rear of the field,
00:30:38but particularly with that post, you just have to guide him over there and see if the pace develops.
00:30:42I was a little surprised to see Top Connor on the lead. He broke so sharp and from the inside post,
00:30:47our intent was to go be in that first group there. I actually thought Good Money would be
00:30:51maybe right there setting the pace, maybe just ahead of him. That horse actually charged,
00:30:55hit the gate. He was the horse when Sierra Leone didn't really want to load, then he finally got
00:30:59in there. Our horse charged the gate in the middle. It was Good Money, but then hit the gate,
00:31:03Castellano told me, and then he was out of sorts a bit after that and really didn't run any good,
00:31:09didn't break well, didn't run good. But anyhow, my other horse ended up on the lead, which I
00:31:12didn't anticipate, but you know, as the pace was moving along at a solid rate and I saw the horse
00:31:17moving up on the backside, I felt pretty good. The only anxious moment was when he was loading
00:31:21the gate. What do you want to go in? That was, um, I didn't see that coming. He's been a pretty
00:31:26straightforward horse. Um, Tyler told me really the crowd, you know, when he inherited the outside
00:31:32post with the 11 scratching, he's the last one to load in there. The more they were, um, he was
00:31:37trying to get them in there and they did a great job getting them in there. He just kept looking
00:31:41at that crowd and it's been something with this horse. He always kind of wants to look right.
00:31:45You know, you saw on the REM Sim when he was kind of acting green and he still wants to lean in a
00:31:50little bit when he passed that horse on Saturday. And, uh, and then right where that gate is where
00:31:56all the huge crowd is right there. Tyler said, as soon as he locked eyes on all of them and
00:32:01the noise and such, that's really why you want to go in. Chad, you've run a lot of good horses
00:32:05in the Kentucky Derby, most notably good magic and Zandon. Um, you have not, as we've mentioned,
00:32:11been fortunate enough to win yet, but is this your best shot yet to date in your career? Um,
00:32:17are you going to go into this with even more confidence than you might've gone into good
00:32:22magic Derby? Yeah, I do. I think he's the best, best chance. I mean, with good magic,
00:32:28um, you bring in the two-year-old champion horses with him and Zandon, they were sort of both
00:32:32battling for favoritism with one other really good horse and would justify one year and epicenter,
00:32:37um, the other year. And, um, with good magic, there was always a question mark. If you really
00:32:42want to go a mile and a quarter, he's coming off a good bluegrass when his numbers looked good.
00:32:47Um, and that crop didn't look that strong behind, you know, up and coming justified with magic. And
00:32:54then those are the horses that didn't, maybe it wasn't as deep. I don't feel. And so I thought
00:32:59maybe he'd get a mile and a quarter just because of the lack of competition maybe, but it's not
00:33:03really what he wanted to do. Um, and then with Zandon, I always felt he could get the mile and
00:33:08a quarter. Um, and I felt really, really good about that horse. The way he came in with his
00:33:13running salad and he got, both of them got pretty good trips in the Derby too, no excuses, but
00:33:18this horse really looks like he's looking for the mile and a quarter the right way.
00:33:22Yes. It's dependent. He's going to have to pass a lot of horses, but
00:33:26it looks like there'll be a good pace. And hopefully if he can just get a clear run and
00:33:30use his big stride, um, he would be the best, best chance we've had in this race.
00:33:36So about that, when I hear people hand wringing about 20 horse field in the Derby and, oh, it's
00:33:42a crap shoot and, oh, you got to have this much luck. I always tell them, go back and look at
00:33:48the charts, you know, in hindsight, who the best horse was. Ask yourself, well, go back every year,
00:33:53go back to the seventies. Did the best horse win the Kentucky Derby? And you'll be amazed.
00:33:58It's like 75, 80% of the time, despite the 20 horse field, the cream rises and the best
00:34:04horse tends to win. So how concerned are you about his running style going into a 20 horse field?
00:34:11You know, it's, it's slightly concerned because anytime you can get some position in that race
00:34:17and put some horses behind you, you're definitely going to have a better, um,
00:34:23chance to get a clean trip. Um, that said, you know, there's been some, you know, you look last
00:34:30year. I mean, the winner was really towards the rear in the race and, and did get a great trip and
00:34:35everything went right there. Javier did a great job, Ryan horse, but you know, you go through
00:34:38the years and it's been a lot of closes that have done really well in the race. So, um, it does come
00:34:43down to a little bit of luck. I agree with you. I'd say eight times out of 10, when you look at
00:34:47the really top contenders in the race, you really have an excuse. I can think of a couple of Derbys
00:34:51where the horses were a bit unlucky, didn't have good trips. I don't know if it was cause it was
00:34:5520 horses. They could have had a bad trip in a 14 horse field tip. You know, um, I thought
00:35:00essential quality didn't get a good trip. Uh, and I'm a student of the game. I, I, and I've been in
00:35:05some of these races. I was in that one with highly motivated. I thought he had a pretty wide trip.
00:35:09Maybe it was because of the 20 horses. I thought he might've been the best source. I don't look
00:35:13at a lot. He had a bad post that year. He was, he was a horse. I thought that he might've been
00:35:18best. So there's a couple of them, but in large, like my horses that I thought I had the best
00:35:23chance with, um, they didn't have any excuse. I mean, they got through just fine, good magic
00:35:28and sanded. And I had some other horses that I really haven't had any bad trips in there,
00:35:31knock on wood. So you have to come with the right horse. And you will have another deep closer in
00:35:36the Derby domestic product, the winner of the Tampa Bay Derby. Uh, he's coming off of two races
00:35:42in which he closed into some pretty slow paces. Um, give us your thumbnail sketch of, of, uh,
00:35:49domestic product. And please tell us if you know what you're going to do with a jockey,
00:35:53because Tyler Gaff Leon rides Sierra Leone and he's also been riding domestic product.
00:35:57Yeah. So we're lucky enough to pick up IRA Ortiz on that horse. So he's going to ride
00:36:01the Derby, which is great. Um, you know, I, that horse is, I think, um, and under the radar
00:36:10real contender in the race. Um, he, he has a really fast figure at a mile and eighth as a
00:36:15two-year-old to keep working off of, uh, when he broke his maiden. I mean, he did something
00:36:19it's hard to do. I ran him in search. Oh, we really liked to go in six furlongs. And,
00:36:23uh, Pratt wrote him and just said, he just, the kickback and he couldn't believe didn't fire
00:36:27because he had worked him in the morning. He begged me to ride the horse, right? So he just,
00:36:34he missed the race going a mile. And then by the time I, um, had him ready to go,
00:36:39there was a mile and eighth race going from six to a mile. Like I'd never do that. So I just threw
00:36:43him in there and didn't even win a good, fast number. Um, and then he caught that muddy track
00:36:48in the Rams and he's clearly doesn't want to a rainy Derby this horse. Um, he's night and day
00:36:53better on, on a dry track. And I'll say this about him. Um, when Tyler got off that horse at Tampa,
00:37:00you know, I immediately, we talked about how, you know, now we're going to part ways with this
00:37:05horse a bit and you're going to, you know, obviously pick the other horse, but, um,
00:37:10you know, thank you. And maybe down the road, you guys can connect again. He said to me, you know,
00:37:15he's not that far behind the other horse. Trust me. The worst goes on a mile and a quarter.
00:37:20There's not as much separating sources as you think is what he told me. I said, okay,
00:37:25so I trust him. Um, he's been going on some slow paces. We haven't seen him at a mile and a quarter
00:37:29yet. I think taking the blinkers off the worse was a positive move for him in his last two starts. And
00:37:36I initially was going to run that horse again. And the more I looked at it, um, he had two tough
00:37:41races at a mile 16, but he was really on his belly late in the race. And I thought he had a
00:37:45good flow out of it. And I looked at my numbers, you know, over my whole career and really 31 to
00:37:5060 days. I know there's a lot of turf races in there too, but it's been a high percentage move
00:37:55for us having a little bit of time, 31 to 60. If it was more than 60 days, I would have definitely
00:38:00run that horse somewhere, but he's just, um, 56, 57 days, something like that. And it's a positive
00:38:07angle for a barn. So I'm going to go on that. Chad, what do you think the next four weeks
00:38:12going to be like for you? You're going to be nervous. Um, you're going to be extra excited,
00:38:16uh, case of Derby fever, or, you know, are you going to be the typical Chad Brown level-headed
00:38:21kind of steady guy that we know in love? Thank you. Thank you. I try to be, um, you know,
00:38:27the only benefit to losing the Derby a few times when you thought you were going to win is you
00:38:31gain a lot of experience and you, and you just, you know, the next one that comes along, you don't
00:38:36get, uh, thinking about it too much. You just, uh, you hope for the best. You're expecting the
00:38:41worst, you know, anything can happen. So you just have to think about it that way. And, uh,
00:38:46that'll be pretty anxious on Derby day, but I'm, we're pretty focused and I have a great team. I
00:38:50mean, I was, I was telling, um, the reporters here on site that bluegrass, I mean, to put
00:38:55perspective, um, there's three bluegrass wins and every single employee that was here on Saturday
00:39:03was working for me at the first one, every worker in the barn. So that's the same team that's
00:39:10working with these horses. So we all have a lot of experience together doing this. And I, um, I,
00:39:16I'm hoping that benefits us as we go in there, you know, it's tough to make decisions, you know,
00:39:20the last weather to deal with and Kentucky all the time when you're going to work with horses and,
00:39:25um, and how you're going to approach the race and such. And I feel like we learned something
00:39:28every year. We've had a lot of conversations. This is something I can't believe I've
00:39:32never asked you before. And with all your turf success, you've won more than your share of grade
00:39:37one races on the dirt. You've won the Preakness twice. You were second in the Kentucky Derby,
00:39:42looking at the difference between dirt racing and turf racing, right? It's a lot more strenuous
00:39:48to run on the dirt, obviously, and slog through the sand than it is to run on the grass. Knowing
00:39:54that, do you have to train dirt horses differently for a race, like a mile and a quarter Kentucky
00:40:00Derby than you would a turf horse? Do you have to train them harder to get them fitter to run on
00:40:05dirt than you would on turf? Yeah, certainly. Um, you definitely, the horses can take a lot more
00:40:13than run on the dirt, especially the top ones. And you, you, you certainly train those horses
00:40:18harder and you're right. Running through sand basically is what you're doing is, um, uh, it's
00:40:23no different from a human to a horse. You know, you, you can take, you can feel the difference
00:40:28running on your lawn versus the beach. It's very similar with horses, I find. And, um, certainly
00:40:34you, you train them harder. And with the turf horses, it's, there's definitely an element of
00:40:39fitness for the horse, but it's, you're teaching the horse a lot more behavioral training.
00:40:44My experience, you know, it's, you know, how to conserve energy, when to use it. You know,
00:40:51you want the horses a little more push button, um, to show their turn of foot. If they're,
00:40:55if they have it, you sort of develop them to, to use it as a weapon. Um, with dirt racing and
00:41:02training, I find it's really a test of stamina. You know, you, you don't get as many bad trips,
00:41:08right? There's a lot more separation in the races as horses get tired. And, um, and that has to do
00:41:13with what you said about the, um, the endurance required and, um, for, for running long distances
00:41:23and sand, basically. Just, uh, it's just a different approach. And I don't know that the
00:41:28behavior of the horse, uh, you know, it really matters as much, um, because you're not so
00:41:35trip dependent. Very good. Well, Chad Brown, thanks so much for spending some time with us,
00:41:39being the Green Group Guest of the Week. Best of luck going forward as you look to try to win the
00:41:44Kentucky Derby with Sierra Leone and domestic product. Once again, Chad, thanks so much.
00:41:48Good luck Derby Day. Yeah. Thanks for having me anytime guys. Thank you.
00:41:52As our Green Group Guest of the Week, Chad Brown will receive a free one hour tax consultation
00:41:58from the Green Group. For more information on how the Green Group can save you money on those
00:42:02upcoming taxes, www.greenco.com. Are you paying too much in taxes? The Green Group can help.
00:42:15There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select the Green Group
00:42:20as their tax advisors. They save you money and share successful strategies. Over the past 40
00:42:26years, the Green Group founder, Len Green, has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in
00:42:32the history of the sport. Like Eclipse award-winning champions, Jaywalk and Wonderwheel.
00:42:37His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
00:42:42Len Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies
00:42:48has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the Green Group the top-rated
00:42:53accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred business. For a confidential and complimentary
00:42:58consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:43:08The Green Group. Proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:43:38With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
00:43:48there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:43:54Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California,
00:44:00Florida, and New York. Kentucky breads. Breed them. Raise them. Race them. We all win.
00:44:12The TDN Riders are brought to you by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Association and the
00:44:16Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders. What have Kentucky breads been doing in the last couple
00:44:22of weeks? You know, let's see. Laurel River won the Dubai World Cup. Tuz won, won the Golden Shaheen.
00:44:27Mooth won the Arkansas Derby. Fierceness won the Florida Derby. This past weekend,
00:44:31Sierra Leone won the Bluegrass. Leslie's Rose, the Ashland. Alvastar, the Madison.
00:44:35Stronghold won the Santa Anita Derby. But it's like this every week with Kentucky breads, right?
00:44:40Kentucky breads. Buy them. Raise them. Race them. And we all win.
00:44:47Now, speaking of Kentucky breads, at Pleasant Acres Farm in Ocala, there's standing Doppelganger,
00:44:53a grade one winning son of Into Mischief, in his first year at Stud in 2024. He is a Kentucky
00:45:00bread. He was a TDN Rising Star on his debut at Los Alamos. He's out of his stakes winning
00:45:04multiple graded stakes play starter of Quiet American. Doppelganger was second in the San
00:45:09Felipe on the Triple Crown Trail as a three-year-old. Later on, he won the Carter at four.
00:45:14So do the math. He was a winner as a two-year-old, a three-year-old,
00:45:17and a four-year-old. Right now, sons of Into Mischief, like Doppelganger,
00:45:22very popular at Stud. Five of them stand in the state of Florida right now, three of them
00:45:27at Pleasant Acres. Doppelganger, the only grade one winner among those five.
00:45:32And Doppelganger stands for $10,000 at Pleasant Acres. So let's go to some of the off-track news
00:45:39that we had. And I'll start with TD on this one because he's covering the story for the
00:45:44Thoroughbred Daily News. And keep in mind, we're recording this on Monday. So, you know,
00:45:49the news could and probably will change from the time we recorded this until it appears.
00:45:56So we apologize for that. We'll do the best we can. But we have to talk about this
00:46:00because there's important stories. So we thought we'd seen the last of the lawsuits. There's been
00:46:06116 of them. And, you know, we thought finally everything was dealt with. And Churchill Downs,
00:46:14whether you agree with their position or not, was by and large the winner of everything.
00:46:18Now Amir Zidane has gone to court to try to get a temporary injunction that would allow
00:46:22Muth to get into the Kentucky Derby. And, TD, what is he arguing, first of all?
00:46:28He's essentially his legal argument boils down to Churchill Downs Incorporated did not have the
00:46:35right to extend Bob Baffert's suspension from running on their grounds and thus in the Kentucky
00:46:42Derby. And he's saying that based on what he thought was the end of the suspension for Mr.
00:46:48Baffert back last summer, that he would buy horses that would thus be eligible to run in
00:46:52the 2024 Kentucky Derby. So he's making that argument. This was already, you know, we had
00:46:58written in Thurber Daily News as far back as two years ago that some owner might try a lawsuit
00:47:04beyond the failed federal lawsuit that Bob Baffert initiated that was decided last year.
00:47:09And sure enough, Amir Zidane has gone to court. He's gone to a Kentucky state court,
00:47:15which is an important distinction because the case has already been decided at the federal level.
00:47:20Remember, to get a judge to grant an injunction is in some sense, it's a wild card. You get the
00:47:28right judge, you make the right argument on the right day, and you just need the injunction to
00:47:32get into the Derby. You might not even need to win the overall case. We're taping this again
00:47:38without the knowledge of what happens at today's hearing. That's probably occurring as we speak.
00:47:43However, my guess is that it's going to be just a procedural event, and I think eventually
00:47:48Churchill Downs will try to move this question to a federal court because they can say, hey,
00:47:52we already have a precedent on something that's almost a very similar type of argument.
00:47:58Yeah, I mean, as the three of us all know, there have been quite a few lawsuits that have
00:48:04gone through the legal system in Kentucky pertaining to Medina Spirit's disqualification
00:48:08and Baffert's suspension, and they have yet to win in that level in Kentucky in any of those
00:48:16court filings. Like TD, I read all 80 pages of this court filing, and to me, this is a much
00:48:24more compelling case than any that they've had before because what they're doing basically
00:48:31is they're using Churchill Downs' own words against them. They've got the original
00:48:38press release from Churchill Downs about the two-year suspension. They've got a conversation
00:48:43between Bill Carstensian and Mike Tirico on NBC. They've got a recording of that in which Carstensian
00:48:51said that if Baffert was free of any additional medication violations after his two-year
00:48:56suspension was up, he would be welcomed back to Churchill Downs if he wanted to run there.
00:49:03And Zidane is claiming that because of those words and because he wants Bob Baffert to train
00:49:09his horses at the derby, he went out and spent $10 million on horses that would be three-year-olds
00:49:15this year based on the words of Churchill Downs. Now, to me, that's a pretty compelling case,
00:49:22but the big problem here is the timing. When you read that 80-page filing, it's extremely
00:49:31detailed. That's why it's 80 pages. They didn't just start on this after Muth won the Arkansas
00:49:36Derby. This is something that's got to take a month or more to piece together. Now, maybe they
00:49:41only filed it when Muth won the Arkansas Derby, was going to have enough points for sure to get
00:49:46in Kentucky, and he came back okay after the race. But now look at the timing. If the procedural
00:49:51hearing is today, then they set a further hearing, and then the judge has to rule where are we going
00:49:57to be in relation to the Kentucky Derby. And remember, last year, Baffert sued about the
00:50:03two-year suspension. He lost the suit. Part of the rationale, according to the judge, for denying
00:50:10Baffert's claim that he shouldn't be suspended for two years is that it would put a hardship
00:50:15on other owners whose horses had points to get in the Kentucky Derby and might be bumped. And this
00:50:22was February of 2023. Now we're looking at April of 2024, two, three weeks eventually before the
00:50:32Kentucky Derby. I just think it's going to be awfully tough to get a judge to throw the Kentucky
00:50:38Derby in that kind of disarray that close to the race. We'll see. And another element of the lawsuit
00:50:44is that Mr. Zaydan is arguing that Churchill Downs Incorporated is in violation of the horse
00:50:51racing integrity and safety act. They allege that on at least three occasions in the lawsuit.
00:50:56On Friday, I got in touch with somebody from the HISA authority to ask what their opinion or comment
00:51:01was on that. Is CDI really in violation of HISA? And the HISA authority didn't want any part of
00:51:09that. They said, we're not going to comment on anything that's in a different lawsuit that
00:51:13doesn't involve us. And they probably wouldn't comment even if the lawsuit did directly involve
00:51:17them. So, you know, if CDI was in violation, you would think that violation would be posted on the
00:51:23HISA website. T.D., if Zaydan wins this, can only his horse get into the Kentucky Derby or can
00:51:33horses owned by other Baffert owners? Randy, you're shaking your head to fill me in.
00:51:39T.D. will tell you, this has to do with Baffert's suspension. So it not only would open the door
00:51:45for Mooth, it would open the door for Imagination or any other horse that Baffert might have that
00:51:50has points that they may want to run. You agree with that, T.D.? I do. And I would say, and it's
00:51:54not just the Derby. It's the Kentucky Oaks as well. Good point. All right. Well, speaking of Churchill
00:52:01Downs, they were also in the news last week and a very odd story. A publication called the Baltimore
00:52:07Banner, who, by the way, does a real good job covering politics in Maryland and has written a
00:52:11lot of, been on top of the Pimlico situation ever since the things have been going on and
00:52:18going back and forth about getting money for Pimlico, rebuilding it, et cetera, that Churchill
00:52:23Downs was interested in buying Pimlico. And I mean, if I didn't know better, I would have thought
00:52:29this was an April Fool's joke. And the thing is, the reason why I don't see this at all is that
00:52:35we know what Churchill Downs is all about. Well, they love the Kentucky Derby. Other than that,
00:52:41they're not real good fans of horse racing. They're a casino company. And they're going to
00:52:45go out and buy a racetrack that has no affiliation or no revenue coming in from slot machines,
00:52:53casinos, et cetera, that goes so totally against the grain of the way they've run their company.
00:52:59Now, perhaps they think that they could get maybe historical horse racing machines in there or
00:53:05something. But I just I don't get it, to be honest with you. I know the Preakness is a big
00:53:13feather in their cap, and they would have two thirds of the Triple Crown,
00:53:16which would be pretty remarkable. But, you know, maybe they're just kicking the tires. I don't get
00:53:22it. I don't think Churchill Downs has any interest in having two thirds of the Triple Crown.
00:53:29You know, they they don't have that much interaction with the Preakness and with first
00:53:34racing. I mean, let's face it, when it comes to the Triple Crown, Churchill Downs is flying the
00:53:39plane and Pimlico and the Belmont are in middle seat in coach. Right. I mean, that's just the
00:53:45way it is. That's the way the pecking order goes. So why would Churchill Downs want to take a
00:53:49dilapidated Pimlico under its umbrella? But you answered it. It's the possibility of HHR,
00:53:57of historical horse racing machines. Right now, the state of Maryland has six casinos
00:54:03and racetracks have tried for a long time to get expanded gaming at the tracks.
00:54:08They've always been denied. But in exchange, legislators have given racing in Maryland a
00:54:13carve out. They've taken some of the tax revenue that would go to the state and they've instead
00:54:18given it to the horsemen for purses and given it to the racetracks for some sort of capital
00:54:23improvements that obviously aren't being used at Pimlico. So I think what what Churchill Downs
00:54:28is hoping, and this is just speculation, is that they can go to the Maryland legislature and they
00:54:33can say, look, you're about to spend four hundred million dollars on this. OK, we can save you a
00:54:39whole lot of money. Let us take over Maryland Racing. Let us take Pimlico. Let us take Laurel.
00:54:45You don't have to worry about that four hundred million dollars. Right. We'll take care of what
00:54:50we need to take care of. Just give us the opportunity at least. Give us the consideration
00:54:56for installing HHR machines at our racetracks and we'll take care of the rest. I think you're right.
00:55:02I think that's pretty much what they're interested in long term. I don't think they give a flip
00:55:07about controlling two thirds of the triple crown. And if you're a horseman in Maryland,
00:55:12you face the decision of who do you want running the sport in your state for the
00:55:17long term future, a gaming company or as the way the bill is going through the legislature now,
00:55:23a nonprofit racing specific entity similar to the New York Racing Association that is going to have
00:55:30racing interests first and foremost for the foreseeable future. Yeah, stay tuned on that one.
00:55:36And again, there may be some more information out about this this week. We apologize if we
00:55:41miss that. But we are recording this in advance of some of the meetings in Maryland. Yeah. And
00:55:48that's important, Bill, because as we tape this on Monday, April 8th, today is the final day
00:55:53of the legislative session for the year in Annapolis. So when you watch this on on TDN,
00:56:01there will be more news about this. But this is what we think about it right now ahead of time.
00:56:06All right. Well, last but certainly not least, Frankie DeTore, my goodness, the story just gets
00:56:12better and better all the time on Santa Anita Derby Day. They were the favorite in the Santa
00:56:18Anita Derby and didn't win in imagination, but he rode six straight winners in consecutive races
00:56:25from the second through the seventh. And usually when you see something like that happen with the
00:56:30jockey, which you don't see very often, there's a 320 winner in there and a four dollar winner
00:56:34and whatnot. This horse is paid $660, $1820, $2160, $15, $16.40 and $10.80. And if you would
00:56:46have gone to Santa Anita that day and say, I'm going to parlay all of Frankie's horses,
00:56:50because I think he's going to have a hot day, a $2 parlay for those added up to $215,416.
00:56:56$215,416 just goes to show you the odds against something like this happens. Randy, I know you've
00:57:05I know you've been just so impressed with what he's been doing out in California, how good he
00:57:11looks on a horse. And it's amazing to think that he was going to retire. And now he's, you know,
00:57:16enjoying the second chapter in his career, riding winners like crazy riding in the US.
00:57:23I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon, and nor should he.
00:57:26And he's having an absolute blast, right? He's 53 years old. He's the best jockey in Southern
00:57:32California. He is. He looks better on the horse than anyone else better than the young guys.
00:57:37He's getting better results than any other jockey out there with the horses he's been riding.
00:57:41It's just remarkable what he's been doing in Southern California. But given his career,
00:57:45I guess it shouldn't really come as a surprise to anybody.
00:57:49And when he lost the seventh race that he would have won by a neck
00:57:53on imagination when he lost the Santa Anita Derby, he was the very first person in the
00:57:57winner's circle. Did you see him get in there to enthusiastically go in and shake the hand
00:58:01of fellow jockey Antonio Fraser? So he's a pretty sporting guy as well.
00:58:07Earlier today in Australia, the first foal of the legendary Winx of Philly, Winx won 33
00:58:14races in a row. The foals of Philly went through the English Easter yearling sale down there,
00:58:20bred to a stallion of cool moors that's hot in Australia named Piero.
00:58:26And a bidding war ensued. One of the bidders was the co-owner of the Philly in the ring,
00:58:32who said she hadn't really planned on bidding, but decided once she got there that she had to
00:58:36have her Philly and keep her in Australia. Her name is Debbie Kepitis. The bidding kept going
00:58:43and going and going and going. And guess who was bidding against Debbie Kepitis?
00:58:47John Stewart of Resolute Racing in Kentucky. We've had him on the podcast.
00:58:53The guy that says he doesn't bid, he buys. Well, the bidding escalated all the way to
00:59:0010 million in Australian dollars. Stewart lost out to Debbie Kepitis,
00:59:06who will get to keep the Philly out of Winx for a U.S. price of 6.5 million dollars,
00:59:14the highest price ever paid at auction in the world for a yearling Philly out of Winx.
00:59:21We will look forward to seeing her on the racetrack in a couple of years. We also want
00:59:25to remind you that the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV. The XBTV Work of the Week is Sweet
00:59:31Azteca. She is the gray horse here in the black cap, working in company with three others.
00:59:35She will come from the middle of the pack and hit the wire first, working an easy four furlongs in
00:59:4047.60. Sweet Azteca won the grade one beholder mile at San Juan on March 9th for trainer Michael
00:59:46McCarthy. It is being pointed for the Derby City Distaff, also a grade one race run on
00:59:51Saturday, May 4th, Kentucky Derby Day at Churchill Downs. We'll be right back after this message from
00:59:56XBTV.
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01:01:02how being a part of a West Point partnership can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:01:06We talk about their winners all the time. Hey, West Point's just like us. They can have tough
01:01:10beats as well. Just this past week in the Transylvania, a Cugino was second by a nose.
01:01:18That's a grade three race. In the Madison, they had Vava in there. She ran a heck of a race,
01:01:22and she was beaten just a half length. So, they don't win them all this week. West Point will
01:01:27have integration going in the grade one, Maker's Mark Mile at Keeneland. Also, that's on Friday.
01:01:32Saturday at Oakland, Jackson Traveler is back in action again in the grade three Count Fleet
01:01:37Sprint Handicap. You can learn more about all things West Point at westpointtb.com.
01:01:43Well, that's a wrap on this week's show. I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and TD Thornton,
01:01:48who admirably filled in for Zoe Cabin this week. Our producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca.
01:01:54Our editors, Aaliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson. And of course, what would our show be without our
01:02:00mascot, Lucy? Sound asleep, as always. Sound asleep. Yeah, she's as frisky as ever today.
01:02:09So, anyways, everybody, it should be a great weekend of racing. Thanks for tuning us in,
01:02:14and we'll catch up with you next week here on the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.