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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:21This is our life's work.
00:00:26And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:28I want to remind you, the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:00:31Returning this November, Keeneland will offer a single session dedicated to racehorses on
00:00:35the final day of the November sale, which is November 17th.
00:00:38Well, it is about 101 on October 19th, less than two and a half weeks to go to the Breeders'
00:00:43Cup.
00:00:44Time to get excited.
00:00:45Randy Moss, can't wait.
00:00:47Can't wait.
00:00:48I've got files, boxes, notes, everything conveniently hidden off camera here all around my office
00:00:54just doing the whole thing.
00:00:57If you would let the camera look at it, people would be amazed the preparation you're going
00:01:00through for this.
00:01:01You want to see it?
00:01:02Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:03Oh, all right.
00:01:04Let's see it.
00:01:05Hang on a second.
00:01:06I mean, this is my, these are my Breeders' Cup files, right?
00:01:13And they include, they include charts, past performances of every Breeders' Cup race that's
00:01:20been run so far since 1984.
00:01:23And then I've got stacks and stacks of past performances of this year's contenders that
00:01:30are supposed to run.
00:01:31And I've been trying to, you know, watch videos and do research on the owners and so forth
00:01:37on the Europeans as well.
00:01:39Randy, that's also, that's, that's what I've been doing.
00:01:43Do you still get the TDN delivered to you by fax?
00:01:46Because that is too expensive.
00:01:48I've got my iPad here, Zoe, and I've got some stuff on my iPad.
00:01:53Yes, there you go.
00:01:54There you go.
00:01:55I like it.
00:01:56Impressive stuff.
00:01:57Impressive stuff, Randy Moss.
00:01:58And it shows up, by the way, when you're on the air, because you were so well prepared
00:02:01and everything.
00:02:02So we'll try not to take up your entire afternoon with the TDN Writers' Room podcast today,
00:02:07so you can get back to work, to learning about who's going to run a big race and be the surprising
00:02:12horse in the Breeders' Cup Philly and Mayor Turf to round out your Superfecta.
00:02:16But anyways, before we get into Breeders' Cup talk, we'll have an awful lot about this.
00:02:20We'll start with Zoe because she is kind of our resident European with that beautiful
00:02:24British accent of hers.
00:02:26Zoe, what happened to Bayid in the Champions' Stakes?
00:02:29And I'll interject one thought here before we get to you.
00:02:34It made me think a little bit about flight line, because, you know, I think for sometimes
00:02:38we tend to take for granted that these are still animals, they can still have bad days,
00:02:43and there truly is no such thing as a sure thing.
00:02:45I'm not going to jump off the flight line bandwagon.
00:02:47I'm going to pick them.
00:02:48I wouldn't dare try to bet against them in the Classic.
00:02:51But it was a jarring reminder that no horse is perfect and they can have bad days.
00:02:57What was your take on Bayid?
00:02:58Absolutely.
00:02:59And I do believe firmly that you could have heard a pin drop at Ascot that afternoon when
00:03:05he was soundly beaten, beaten forth that day.
00:03:08We'll get to hear from Nick Luck a little bit later on, on his thoughts on Bayid.
00:03:12But simply, the fact of the matter is, you can't beat Mother Nature.
00:03:17And there is a reason that he didn't go to the Arc de Triomphe, because the ground was
00:03:20bottomless.
00:03:21The ground was not his liking, and in fairness to trainer Willie Haggis, who is just such
00:03:26a fantastic gentleman, he never blamed the ground, but the ground had an awful lot to
00:03:32do with it.
00:03:33He didn't get the cleanest of trips now, like right from the offset.
00:03:35You could see Jim Crowley looking over his left shoulder, looking over, trying to get
00:03:39out and get this horse in the clear, who was about one to five that day.
00:03:43So not the best of trips.
00:03:45Didn't get out in time, perhaps.
00:03:47He usually has that lightning turn of foot, and the ground slowed that turn of foot down.
00:03:52So at the end of the day, he was soundly beaten.
00:03:54He was a fantastic horse.
00:03:56He still goes out a champion.
00:03:58He goes to stud, and perhaps he's passed the banner to Bay Bridge, who was absolutely stellar.
00:04:05It's like perhaps he might be coming to the Breeders' Cup, but I mean, it left just a
00:04:10little bit of sweet, sour taste in your mouth, having a horse go out like that.
00:04:14All the comparisons to Frankel.
00:04:16Now they don't have to worry about that, because he's been beaten.
00:04:20But yes, like you said, it can happen to any horse, and I was gutted.
00:04:24I simply was gutted.
00:04:26I was really looking forward to seeing him win, because everyone wants to see a champion
00:04:30go out like a champion.
00:04:33We all want to see that.
00:04:34Yeah, go ahead.
00:04:35Go ahead, Bill.
00:04:36Is the ground a legitimate excuse?
00:04:38Well, I don't know.
00:04:39You know, I don't know that much.
00:04:40What do you think is a legitimate excuse?
00:04:41I'm giving it to you.
00:04:42But I'll tell you what.
00:04:46What I liked about the aftermath of that race was that Haggis and Crowley were such gentlemen.
00:04:54They weren't blaming.
00:04:56They weren't coming up with excuses, right?
00:05:00They were just very classy, as classy as you could possibly be when you have a horse
00:05:04that's undefeated and making the final start of his career and goes down to a shocking
00:05:10defeat.
00:05:11So I really liked that part of it.
00:05:13And to your point, Bill, we had an NBC production meeting yesterday, one of many, for the Breeders'
00:05:18Cup, and we were talking, of course, about Flightline and the Classic.
00:05:22And I think one of the producers on the calls said, you know, can this horse be beaten?
00:05:29Look at Bayid.
00:05:30That's exactly the point that I made about Flightline, that Bayid proved that on any
00:05:36given day, it's horse racing, and even the heaviest favorites can lose.
00:05:41So Bayid was not going to run in the Breeders' Cup, no matter what happened.
00:05:44But there was a Breeders' Cup storyline in the Queen Elizabeth, and Randy, we'll start
00:05:48off for you this time.
00:05:49Modern Games, who won the Woodbine Mile so impressively, runs in the Queen Elizabeth
00:05:53II, runs a good race, but not the kind of race where you would say he was spectacular.
00:05:58A decent second.
00:06:00Do you think any less of him now going into the Breeders' Cup Mile off a defeat in this
00:06:05race?
00:06:06No, I don't at all, because when you look at the rating systems in Europe, when you
00:06:11look at the time form figures and you look at the racing post figures and the official
00:06:17horse ratings, in their opinion, Modern Games in defeat ran about as well and about as fast
00:06:24as he did in winning the Woodbine Mile at Woodbine.
00:06:27It's just the difference in competition that he faced at Woodbine compared to what he ran
00:06:32against on Champions Day.
00:06:34So I don't think that detracted from his reputation at all.
00:06:39I think he'll be the favorite here.
00:06:42But what's interesting is that in a couple of the European books that I looked at, Ken
00:06:46Ross is equal in one book, even a shorter price for the Breeders' Cup Mile than Modern
00:06:53Games is.
00:06:54Ken Ross is the horse that won the Champions Sprint over there so impressively.
00:06:58And now he'll be stretching out from seven furlongs to a mile or from sprinting to a
00:07:02mile.
00:07:03So Modern Games won't be without competition.
00:07:06Yeah, I mean, Ken Ross stretching out the six furlongs at the Barga Ascot, it's going
00:07:10to be like a mile at Churchill.
00:07:12I really like Ken Ross coming over here, but the one upside from Modern Games is that he's
00:07:18been there, done it.
00:07:19He won at Dalmar.
00:07:20He won at Woodbine.
00:07:22He clearly is a horse that's definitely suited to the American style of racing.
00:07:27And Ken Ross has not been proven for that, basically.
00:07:32Now stateside, there were no preps for the Breeders' Cup, but if you have a grade one
00:07:37race on the grass in this country, especially if it's east of the Mississippi, of course,
00:07:42Chad Brown's going to be involved.
00:07:43And not only does he win the Queen Elizabeth Challenge Cup at Keeneland, he finishes one
00:07:48to the lesser half of the Chad Brown duo, Gina Romanica beats McCulloch.
00:07:53And we won't see these fillies in the Breeders' Cup, at least this year.
00:07:57Maybe we will next year.
00:07:58But I had another thought about this.
00:07:59So he's won this race for the fifth time, and he's won four of the last five years.
00:08:04Chad Brown is only 43 years old.
00:08:07He's probably going to be doing this at this level for maybe another 30 years or so.
00:08:11I think when it's all said and done, these races that he's won now five times, four times,
00:08:16six times, we're going to see him maybe winning 15 times, 16 times, the kind of numbers that
00:08:21are just inconceivable.
00:08:22I mean, even Wayne Lucas in his heyday didn't win any of these kind of races, 15 or 16 times.
00:08:27Randy, you take it.
00:08:28You know, Chad Brown never ceases to amaze, and sometimes I think we take his accomplishments
00:08:33for granted.
00:08:34I think that's exactly right.
00:08:36I think we do sometimes.
00:08:38We see it so often, dominating these mostly turf races and not only winning, but sometimes
00:08:43winning one, two, sometimes winning one, two, three.
00:08:47Sometimes winning one, two, three, four.
00:08:48One, two, three, four, as he did in the Diana earlier this year at Saratoga.
00:08:51And we see him like a year or two ago, he has all these great horses that are going
00:08:56into retirement.
00:08:57And we think, oh, OK, he's going to be, you know, he's going to be down next year.
00:09:01No, no.
00:09:02He just reloads, and these new superstars come rising through the ranks.
00:09:06This year, something that I went back and looked at, getting ready for the Breeders'
00:09:10Cup in my notes, right?
00:09:12And this is remarkable.
00:09:14He has had 17 different individual female racehorses win stakes races on the grass this
00:09:23year.
00:09:24Of those 17, they won a total of 33 stakes races, 29 of those were graded, and eight
00:09:30were grade ones.
00:09:31Female racehorses on the turf, 17 different individual stakes winners, and in the Breeders'
00:09:39Cup coming up in the Philly and Mare turf, he'll have an Italian Rogier and Virginia
00:09:44Joy.
00:09:45He'll have Regal Glory going against the boys in the mile.
00:09:47There's four of the females right there.
00:09:49And another horse that's kind of flying under the radar, this is interesting, that he's
00:09:52going to be running in the Breeders' Cup mile, probably, he's seriously considering it, is
00:09:58Domestic Spending, who hasn't been seen on an American racetrack in more than a year
00:10:04since running in the Mr. D stakes, the erstwhile Arlington Million, in 2021.
00:10:10But he's been training so well that Chad is seriously considering bringing him back against
00:10:15modern games in the Breeders' Cup mile.
00:10:18And if it was anybody other than Chad Brown or Michael Dickinson, you would probably say,
00:10:22oh, this horse has no chance, but it's Chad Brown and it's Domestic Spending, so you never
00:10:26know.
00:10:27And he's also, I mean, and this is the same year that he wins the Preakness with early
00:10:31voting.
00:10:33People sometimes think he's just a grass trainer.
00:10:35He's not.
00:10:36I mean, he doesn't win as many races with dirt horses, but, you know, he's proven time
00:10:40and time again with Jack Christopher, early voting, you know, and horses like that.
00:10:44He won the Champagne again this year.
00:10:46I think he's won that race four times or so in the last couple of years, last four or
00:10:50five years.
00:10:51So, you know, he's not a one trick pony either, Zoe.
00:10:53Yeah.
00:10:54And getting back to Gina Romantica, that was his 200th career graded stakes win.
00:10:59So 200, if you think he first popped on the scene really 10 years ago, 200th graded stakes
00:11:05with Gina Romantica the other day.
00:11:07And just imagine what his win percentage would be like, guys.
00:11:10Think about this.
00:11:11He's got at least two horses in pretty much every race he runs in.
00:11:15So that's cutting down his win percentage.
00:11:17He wins at about 25, 30%.
00:11:20I mean, surely if he just ran one horse in each race, it would almost be doubled.
00:11:24Right.
00:11:25Yeah.
00:11:26Good point.
00:11:27And he can't do better than winning at a 25% rate because he's going to have three losers.
00:11:33So over the last couple of days, nothing gets us excited about TDN Rising Stars, horses
00:11:38that really look like they have a very bright future.
00:11:41Randy, I want to start with you on this.
00:11:42Julia Shining, the full sister to Malithat, comes out at Keeneland.
00:11:47She wins by two and three quarter lengths.
00:11:49Visually, very, very impressive.
00:11:51She was climbing early.
00:11:52She was far back.
00:11:54She made a bold move on the turn to draw away.
00:11:56But, and this is the big but, the 71 buyer number, well, first of all, before we talk
00:12:02about her performance specifically, let's talk about in general.
00:12:07When you see a very visually impressive two-year-old get a slow number, what do you make of that?
00:12:13Well, you always have to take speed figures and modify them by the way they were earned.
00:12:21Whether they were earned with an easy trip that was advantageous or in the case of this
00:12:27particular filly, whether they were earned with a terrible trip, and obviously they could
00:12:31have run much faster with a better trip, right?
00:12:34And she obviously was taking so much dirt in the face going down the backstretch.
00:12:38She was trying to climb over the dirt.
00:12:39She dropped back to last.
00:12:40She was very wide on the turn.
00:12:42She accelerated past the field.
00:12:44Having said that, though, you can't completely ignore the speed figure because what it tells
00:12:48you really more than anything else is that the competition she was beating was subpar
00:12:54for a Keeneland two-year-old filly maiden special weight race.
00:12:59So clearly she's got the pedigree.
00:13:02She should be a lot better as they stretch her out, right?
00:13:05I mean, she's a full sister to Malifat who was just getting warmed up at that distance.
00:13:09So two turns, you know, being by Kirtland is going to be in her wheelhouse as she gets
00:13:14more experience.
00:13:17If she had finished third, four lengths behind a normal maiden special weight race for that
00:13:23level at Keeneland, we'd be saying, oh, wow, this is a horse to watch out for.
00:13:27You know, this is a horse that might be pretty nice.
00:13:30As it was, she faced a very weak field and won, but she still is a horse to watch.
00:13:34Yeah, she was just visually impressive.
00:13:37And, you know, the funny thing is that she caught my eye right at the beginning of Saratoga.
00:13:43And I looked her up.
00:13:44I saw the name.
00:13:45I looked her up and I'm like, wow, she's a full to Malifat.
00:13:48So I go back to the barn and I'm speaking to Todd like, hey, let me see the full.
00:13:52And she's right there in the first stall by the office where all the good ones are.
00:13:57And it's just big, rangy, beautiful filly by Kirtland.
00:14:01And she worked a couple of times and she worked really good.
00:14:04And then horses go through growing spurts or for whatever reasons, they don't work as
00:14:09well.
00:14:10So pretty much for the rest of Saratoga, she kept working.
00:14:14And I was just like, oh, God, maybe lightning's not going to strike twice.
00:14:17She's just OK.
00:14:18I was a bit disappointed because I'd made such a big deal.
00:14:21She was like an XBTV work of the day.
00:14:24And I was like, and I honestly didn't realize she was in the other day.
00:14:28Otherwise, I would have like been just glued to the screen or actually asked Todd.
00:14:33I just thought maybe she'd been put away for a couple of weeks due to niggling issues.
00:14:37And so I think she just took a long time to come around.
00:14:41Maybe she had a growing spur.
00:14:43Maybe she was just green as grass, which is what she displayed.
00:14:46And we spoke about this the other day with trainers not doing the old school.
00:14:50I can remember galloping horses and schooling horses behind dirt and sitting back there
00:14:55and just getting a face full of mud and teaching them.
00:14:59That's how you do it.
00:15:00And people don't do that anymore.
00:15:01They either work solo or they work head and head.
00:15:04It's rarely you'll see a horse taking dirt.
00:15:06So she exhibited all of that and was just so green.
00:15:12I thought she just ran terrifically.
00:15:14And I was delighted that I feel a bit adjudicated that maybe she is a nice filly.
00:15:20Very good.
00:15:21Now, there was another impressive maiden winner in a TDN Rising Star who did run fast, a $1.35
00:15:27million Colt by the name of Extra Anejo, trained by Steve Asmussen, got a 92 by Randy.
00:15:33This one, one by nine and a half lengths, certainly looks like the real deal.
00:15:36Oh, and Steve said afterward that he's very high on the horse, as you would expect, and
00:15:41that, you know, you can't wait to get him back.
00:15:43And he said he's not going to be in a rush with him because he's got so much in the pedigree
00:15:48department and the obviously the talent department.
00:15:51But Extra Anejo is a nice horse to watch for the future, by the way.
00:15:55This is Extra Anejo, in case you're wondering what Extra Anejo is, I had a prop, it's tequila.
00:16:03But what another little interesting side note about Extra Anejo, the owner, Ron Winchell,
00:16:09you know, right now he's not saying, boy, I can't wait to get this Colt on the grass, right?
00:16:13All he's going to be thinking about is the Triple Crown.
00:16:16This horse has an interesting grass element to his pedigree as well, because his damn
00:16:21superiority complex is by hard spun out of a Galileo mare who started her career in Europe
00:16:28with Sir Michael Stout, who ran in her 10 races, nine on the turf and one on synthetic
00:16:34wood mine and who happens to be a half sister to Islington, who won the Breeders' Cup filly
00:16:41and mare turf years ago.
00:16:43So Extra Anejo is obviously very good on dirt, but there is some turf in those genes as well.
00:16:49Hey, you're stealing all my stick here, Randy.
00:16:52Yes.
00:16:53Sorry.
00:16:54Wait a minute.
00:16:55Did you have the bottle?
00:16:57Did you have the bottle too that you were going to show everybody?
00:17:00Mine's empty.
00:17:01I mean, come on.
00:17:02That was breakfast.
00:17:03I mean, come on, guys.
00:17:04But they actually went over to Tats and bought this mare.
00:17:11A good friend of mine, Marette Farrell, works closely with Greg Goodman, and they went over
00:17:15there and bought the mare, put her in fold to end to mischief.
00:17:19So, I mean, it was basically a Mount Brilliant Greg Goodman story here.
00:17:25They bought the mare.
00:17:26They put her in fold to end to mischief.
00:17:27They sold her at Keeneland, him, excuse me, at Keeneland for $1.35 million.
00:17:33So, I mean, the Goodmans breed good horses, and it really is a kudos to the breeding program
00:17:38that they have going on right now.
00:17:40And hey, another end to mischief.
00:17:42Who knew?
00:17:43Yeah.
00:17:44There's a newsflash.
00:17:45Another end to mischief can run.
00:17:46Also, there was a Sands Point at Belmont and Aqueduct won by Skims, horse that looks like
00:17:51it's on the improve for Shug McGahee, and Pizza Bianco, fourth in that race in her first
00:17:56start since running at Royal Ascot.
00:17:59I didn't think she ran that bad.
00:18:01She made up an awful lot of ground.
00:18:03She ran like a filly who's going to come on off that race and definitely needed the run.
00:18:10The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:18:13On Sunday, Caravelle got her third graded stakes win in the grade three Franklin stakes,
00:18:18and in just a few weeks, she'll go through the ring at Keeneland's November breeding
00:18:22stock sale, selling in book number one, guys.
00:18:25Don't forget, she is hip number 224.
00:18:29You want to get a little piece of Caravelle, the November sale has cataloged 3,698 horses
00:18:36and covers a total of 10 days.
00:18:38You better get your walking shoes on.
00:18:40And it's followed by the Horses of Racing Age sale on November the 17th.
00:18:44This is a standalone sale with 295 horses cataloged for noon Eastern.
00:18:52We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:18:56When the thoroughbred world descends upon Lexington this November, there is one place
00:19:01you need to be.
00:19:02The place where history comes alive with every championship victory.
00:19:08The place where the future is built with the fall of a gathering.
00:19:13The place that exists to be the heart of this industry, the center of it all.
00:19:18Home to the November breeding stock sale and the 2022 Breeders' Cup, Keeneland.
00:19:25He was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.
00:19:29Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:19:31Tis the law, pops the cork and the champagne.
00:19:34Tis the law is going to win the first leg of the Triple Crown.
00:19:38I've never seen him get tired.
00:19:40Respect the law.
00:19:41Tis the law.
00:19:42His structure is just perfect.
00:19:44His bone is perfect.
00:19:46He's left the others behind.
00:19:48He's going to win the Run Happy Travers.
00:19:50He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:19:56The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:19:59Curly, Larry and Mo became the latest winner for their star Motown at Keeneland on Saturday.
00:20:05Do remember they also stand Justify and Randy, is it hard to imagine as good as the progeny
00:20:12of Justify has been on dirt, they might be just as good on turf.
00:20:15He had a nice winner this past weekend at NACE.
00:20:18She won by 10, a daughter of Justify.
00:20:21Is it possible they could be better?
00:20:24It's an interesting thing to think about, Zoe, since Justify, of course, is a son of
00:20:27Scat Daddy, the Coolmore stallion that's been such a tremendous turf influence during his
00:20:32unfortunately brief career as a stallion.
00:20:36Justify has some very interesting two-year-olds in training in Europe right now.
00:20:42Peyton O'Brien has one filly named Statuette that is two for two, and he's going to put
00:20:47her away for the rest of the year and bring her back next year and appoint her for the
00:20:511,000 guineas.
00:20:53He says she's such a massive two-year-old filly, so big that she's got to grow into
00:20:58her frame, and that's why he's not worried at all about putting her away for the rest
00:21:03of the year.
00:21:04And there was another trainer over there as well with a top-class two-year-old by Justify
00:21:07that said that he's seen several by Justify that show a lot of ability on the grass, but
00:21:13they all, even though they're two-year-olds, they all look like three-year-olds because
00:21:16they've got his physique, you know?
00:21:19So it's going to be interesting not only to watch these Justifies run on turf, but to
00:21:24watch their development from two to three, because as we know, Justify didn't run as
00:21:29a two-year-old.
00:21:31He didn't make his first start until he was a little bit more advanced in early in his
00:21:35three-year-old season.
00:21:37Buffett's going to be pulling his hair out.
00:21:39You know, all of these horses are going to be turf sires.
00:21:41You know, you've got American Pharoah, he's thrown grade one winner after grade one winner
00:21:45on the turf.
00:21:46Now you're going to have Justify as well?
00:21:47What's going on here?
00:21:49Well, I'm sure Justify is going to do just well on, just do fantastic on both surfaces.
00:21:55I'm a Shemp fan, by the way.
00:21:57He's definitely the most underrated stooge, if you ask me.
00:22:00So interesting to see Curly, Larry, and Mo out there and doing it.
00:22:04So from the Ridiculous to the Sublime, or the Sublime to the Ridiculous, back and forth
00:22:09with the Stooges whatsoever, let's go on to another very serious subject.
00:22:13Kenta Zarma, who has made headlines for all the wrong reasons over the last year or so,
00:22:18is soon going to be eligible to ride again.
00:22:21He had a 60-day suspension that was handed down to him by the CHRB.
00:22:25He served that now.
00:22:27There's a couple other, I think, little minor suspensions that he's got to get through.
00:22:31But the latest development goes back to January when he was in Louisiana and arrested for
00:22:35domestic abuse and battery and a nasty incident down there.
00:22:41Randy Moss, should Kenta Zarma, I'll cut right to the chase.
00:22:45Should Racine welcome him back?
00:22:46Or is it time to say, you know, Kent, this is just, it's not three strikes you're out,
00:22:50this is 19 strikes you're out, and it's time to move on?
00:22:54I've got an opinion on that, Bill, if you don't mind.
00:22:58Zoe rode, and she probably rode against people that had their share of demons they were trying
00:23:05to overcome.
00:23:06Where do you come down on this?
00:23:10It's a hard line.
00:23:11I mean, basically, in this day and age, anytime you put your hands on a woman, it's an automatic
00:23:16no-no.
00:23:17Back in the day, you could be suspended for all kinds of narcotics or anything you wanted.
00:23:22And like P-Val, you get a second chance and a second chance and a second chance.
00:23:27But this is something different.
00:23:29And I'm not sure that he's going to be welcome at an awful lot of places, even with no ruling
00:23:35against him.
00:23:36I mean, we've seen the NFL.
00:23:39Go ahead.
00:23:40Yeah, I think each jurisdiction is going to have their own take on it.
00:23:45And you know, we've seen people getting barred from separate racetracks with no ruling against
00:23:50them.
00:23:51And I think we're going to see perhaps some of the same, just because people are not standing
00:23:57for it anymore.
00:23:58Yeah.
00:23:59And I could see that.
00:24:00I mean, you look at the NFL and what's going on with so many of the NFL players, you see
00:24:05suspensions.
00:24:06I mean, look at Deshaun Watson right now, right?
00:24:09I mean, that's not necessarily the same thing as Kent Disarmow is accused of, but it's definitely
00:24:14a transgression against women.
00:24:17But you see suspensions, you see six-month suspensions, year suspensions.
00:24:21You don't see lifetime bans.
00:24:25You know, with me, with Kent, it's not just that, but it's alcohol as well that's thrown
00:24:32into the equation there.
00:24:34And he broke his pact that he had with the CHRB.
00:24:39So he was basically treading thin water anyway.
00:24:43And that may be the straw that broke the camel's back.
00:24:46I can't talk on what's going to happen, but, you know, he was already treading on thin
00:24:52ice.
00:24:53Yeah.
00:24:54I know I'm a little bit too lenient about something like this, but if I was a steward,
00:25:00I would let him come back to ride unless he was a repeat offender in the domestic abuse
00:25:08category.
00:25:10And I would also insist, as I think they are, on very robust testing before he rides, maybe
00:25:17even daily testing.
00:25:18I don't know what the rules are exactly for that.
00:25:20And I wouldn't even be against DeSormo or another rider in that situation having to
00:25:25pay the bill for their own daily testing to make sure that they're clean when they go
00:25:30out there to ride.
00:25:31I'm not suggesting that Kent ever rode under the influence, but obviously, you know, he's
00:25:35had his demons with alcohol as well.
00:25:39But it's a tough call.
00:25:43It really is.
00:25:44It is a tough call.
00:25:45Here's my take on it.
00:25:47Once his suspension is up, the CHRB, he's clear and free.
00:25:51They're not going, they'll, they have no more right or justification once the suspension
00:25:59is up.
00:26:00Now, the Stronach Group, which owns, obviously, Santa Anita and Golden Gate, they on their
00:26:04own, there's a question whether or not they'll allow him to ride.
00:26:07They could bar him from it.
00:26:09The one thing, and I don't want anybody to take this the wrong way, because by no means
00:26:13am I condoning anything that he's done.
00:26:15He's been a bad actor for a long time.
00:26:17And remember, before this, there was an incident where he issued a racial slur against a TVG
00:26:25cameraman.
00:26:26You know, just horrible stuff that he has done.
00:26:29But the difference between a jockey and an NFL player, to me, is the NFL player works
00:26:35for the team.
00:26:37And Kent DiZarmo doesn't work for the California Horse Racing Board.
00:26:39He doesn't work for First Racing or Santa Anita.
00:26:42He works for the owners.
00:26:44And to me, if I want to hire a plumber who had been accused of domestic abuse, it's up
00:26:50to me whether I want to hire him or not.
00:26:52I think the onus falls on the owners and that it's their responsibility.
00:26:56So I would say let him back.
00:26:58But then I would say any owner that lets him ride for him.
00:27:01What's that, Joey?
00:27:02Plumbing's happening in your house.
00:27:04That's another thing to take into consideration.
00:27:07If you're hiring the plumber, he's coming to your house and you own that house.
00:27:11So if you're talking about that, DiZarmo's not going to your house.
00:27:16He's going to someone else's house.
00:27:19That's a good point.
00:27:20I do see that.
00:27:21But I do think it should fall to the owners to ultimately make this decision.
00:27:25Now, what owner in their right mind would ride him?
00:27:28Forget about the domestic abuse problems, but he's 52 years old.
00:27:31He's washed up and he hasn't ridden regularly.
00:27:34He is, though.
00:27:35I mean, he hasn't been a productive, hasn't been a major rider for years.
00:27:39And I don't see him, whether he's let back or not, having anything close to a productive
00:27:43career.
00:27:45He definitely has demons.
00:27:46I'm very sorry that he hasn't been able to conquer them.
00:27:49I wish him well.
00:27:51But one way or another, I don't think he has any.
00:27:54I mean, we're not going to see him ride in Breeders' Cup and Triple Crown races no matter
00:27:57what.
00:27:58We're not going to see him riding even in the Santa Anita Derby.
00:28:00He's going to be riding 125 to one shot a day.
00:28:04I think that's the best he can hope for.
00:28:06But to me, I think ultimately, maybe it should be left up to the owners.
00:28:10And they're already voting in that regard.
00:28:12I mean, Kent is clearly one of the most athletically gifted riders to come along in the last 30
00:28:18or 40 years.
00:28:19And I think he's still capable of the occasional unbelievable ride.
00:28:25It's just that they're so infrequent now and it's so inconsistent.
00:28:30And I think a lot of owners are of the opinion that the alcohol has diminished his skills.
00:28:39And so he's getting fewer and fewer and fewer amounts from owners.
00:28:44I think owners are already making their opinion known about DeSormo when you look at his business.
00:28:50It was disappointing.
00:28:51I mean, for a while there, he was doing really good.
00:28:54And when Kent's doing really good, he's great to be around.
00:28:56So I feel bad for all the connections in this because it was a disappointment.
00:29:02All right.
00:29:03So let's segue to a different subject.
00:29:06And one of the best developments in horse racing, particularly when it comes to the
00:29:10horse player, is what they did in Kentucky, changing to the penny breakage.
00:29:14And at first you might think, OK, now a horse that was going to pay $7.40 is going to pay
00:29:19$7.46.
00:29:21What's the big deal here?
00:29:22Well, it is apparently a really big deal because now there's reports that the breakage on win
00:29:28place and show only that doesn't include exactus or any of the multiple race bets or something
00:29:33like that doesn't include harness racing.
00:29:35But a win place and show bets only in Kentucky has put $1.1 million since this started at
00:29:43the beginning of the Ellis Park meet back into the horse players' pockets.
00:29:46Randy Moss, a great thing for horse players.
00:29:48Are we ever going to see any other states do this?
00:29:50I think it's a good thing for racetracks too.
00:29:53When you give a horse players collectively $1.1 million, what do you think they're going
00:29:56to do with it?
00:29:57They're going to turn around and put it back through the window.
00:30:01It's the churn.
00:30:02You know, I mean, the reason why this didn't happen a long time ago is because most of
00:30:08the money back in the day that was wagered in thoroughbred racing was wagered on track
00:30:14and people would stand in long lines and sometimes get shut out of the windows.
00:30:18Well, imagine how many people would have gotten shut out of the mutual windows in the 1960s
00:30:22at Aqueduct if the tellers had to count out pennies when they were making payoffs, right?
00:30:27It was just so burdensome that no one wanted it.
00:30:30Plus, racetracks were making a lot of money and states were making a lot of money on the
00:30:34breakage.
00:30:35But now most of the money bet in thoroughbred racing is bet off track.
00:30:38It's bet from people betting on their computers at home or their smartphones, where cents
00:30:43don't matter.
00:30:44It's just automatically deposited into your account.
00:30:47There's no more excuse for racetracks and for states to take advantage of horseplayers
00:30:52with the breakage rules that are currently in effect in most states.
00:30:56I think it's long overdue.
00:30:59Three cheers to Kentucky and the people that were involved, Damon Thayer, one of those,
00:31:03for getting this thing done.
00:31:05And I think other racing states around the country should follow suit and pretty quickly.
00:31:10Yeah, kudos to that, too.
00:31:12I mean, I'm in full agreement, Pat Cummings, Thoroughbred Idea Foundation had an awful
00:31:17lot to do with that.
00:31:19And we need to support the guys, not only the owners, but also the gamblers that are
00:31:23putting the money through the windows, because ultimately that is the support that we need.
00:31:28Unfortunately, I don't see this happening in other jurisdictions because, you know,
00:31:34this is money, people that where this money goes, I'm not altogether sure.
00:31:39But wherever it goes, somebody is making an awful lot of money off of breakage.
00:31:42And, you know, you talk about one point one million dollars in Kentucky, you know, how
00:31:45much would it be around the whole country if they did this?
00:31:47I mean, I think that you're asking, you know, there's a great factor here.
00:31:52People are making a lot of money off the horseplayers backs.
00:31:54And you're going to say to New York, well, you're going to give up this money.
00:31:58And the answer is probably going to be no.
00:32:02The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association as
00:32:07a trial for a possible PA bred claiming crown day next year.
00:32:12The PHBA will be partnering with the HBPA in Pennsylvania to run two starters for three
00:32:18year olds and up on Black Friday at Penn National.
00:32:21For those of you that don't shop, Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving.
00:32:25Each one of those races will have a $50,000 purse, and that'll be along with their
00:32:30$200,000 Shamrock Rose Pennsylvania bred steaks for two year old fillies.
00:32:35By the way, a Pennsylvania bred by the name of Caravelle broke her maiden at Penn National.
00:32:42And Caravelle, of course, just got off a win in the Franklin Steaks, a grade three at
00:32:46Keeneland recently in Lexington.
00:32:49We'll be right back after this message from the PHBA.
00:32:54Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program, the best in North America.
00:32:58But we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:33:01The PA Horse Breeders Association is funding cutting edge research at Penn Vet to detect
00:33:06gene doping in thoroughbreds.
00:33:08And we endorsed the SAFE Act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:33:12Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs set up by our horseman's groups.
00:33:17Just a few of the reasons why you should join us in Pennsylvania, the premier place to breed and race.
00:33:31The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.com, XBTV's workout of the week was none
00:34:01other than Cave Rock and National Treasure, the ones who finishes in the grade one American
00:34:06Pharaoh Steaks. Here you can see Cave Rock on the outside of National Treasure.
00:34:11And boy, boy, does he look good.
00:34:13The son of Arrogate out of the Bellamy Roadmare.
00:34:15Georgie's Angel is a perfect three for three and will most likely be or will be the absolute
00:34:22favorite for the Breeders' Cup juvenile.
00:34:24You can catch these words and many more only on XBTV.com.
00:34:29The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting and tax
00:34:33consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:34:37They have over 500 clients in the horse business and have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:34:43Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:34:48And we're pleased to bring in our Green Group guest of the week, Nick Luck, a man of many
00:34:52hats, among them one of the commentators and host of the Breeders' Cup show, along with our
00:34:57good friend Randy Moss.
00:34:58Nick knows a lot about a lot of things, but especially European racing as we reach him.
00:35:03And it's nine o'clock at night on a Tuesday over in England.
00:35:07Nick, first question for me, kind of a two part.
00:35:10You tweeted out earlier today the lineup for Charlie Appleby.
00:35:14You just go over that briefly.
00:35:15And my question about the lineup and Appleby in general, how does he make it look so easy
00:35:20when he comes to the States?
00:35:22And listen, Bill, it's great to be with you, first of all.
00:35:24I think if you have the depth of talent that he has, obviously that makes it easier.
00:35:29But there have been plenty of high profile trainers who've had the patronage of high
00:35:32profile owners before who haven't done as well as him.
00:35:36Even Aiden O'Brien's great record in the United States pales by comparison when you look at
00:35:40strike rates.
00:35:42So I think it's probably one of the things that motivates Appleby most is finding the
00:35:48right opportunities for his horses.
00:35:50And if he has a whole bunch of grade one or grade two horses, finding where they fit best.
00:35:55And he likes to use the international calendar to exploit that.
00:35:59If he's got three dozen beautifully bred horses by Dubawi, he knows he can't target them all
00:36:05at the British Classics.
00:36:06And some of those, particularly the ones that have been gelded, they will find their 40.
00:36:10They'll find their natural metier running in those turf races in the United States.
00:36:15And he's just exploited that to a T. Then he gets them to get confident.
00:36:19Then they get better still.
00:36:20Modern games being a classic example.
00:36:22And he's a great team captain this year.
00:36:26So you're a man of many hats, you may be the only Brit I've ever seen that I've never seen
00:36:32in a hat. It's actually worn a hat before.
00:36:36What are your favorite storylines for the European horses coming over here for the Breeders' Cup?
00:36:42For this year, I think there's a few that stand out, but they're not necessarily in the most
00:36:46high profile races.
00:36:48I think Highfield Princess is right up there as one of the great storylines, because I
00:36:52think she in the turf sprint against Golden Pal is one of those races where you can
00:36:56genuinely say the best American in his or her division versus the best European in his
00:37:03or her division, both with brazen speed, one probably on the up, the other arguably on
00:37:10the downgrade, one in their backyard, the other trained by someone who has very few
00:37:14international runs or runners this far afield.
00:37:18So I think that sets up as a perfect clash.
00:37:22Coolmore ownership on one hand, slightly more blue collar origins on the other.
00:37:27It's got everything that a Breeders' Cup registered.
00:37:29So I think that's one of the best European stories.
00:37:33There's plenty others running through that people will focus a lot on Holly Doyle, the
00:37:36most successful female jockey there's ever been in Europe, a groundbreaker, someone who's
00:37:41really threatened to shatter the glass ceiling more than any other female rider has
00:37:46before. She's got meaningful chances on the Platinum Queen in the juvenile turf sprint, but
00:37:51more high profile right on Nashua in the in the Breeders' Cup filly in Mare Turf, a race
00:37:56that will test her a little bit more against some of the best American turf riders.
00:38:00So we'll see what she's she's made of tactically there.
00:38:03I think those are those are two really interesting storylines.
00:38:06The turf is is absolutely loaded.
00:38:08The mile, I think we were discussing earlier, Randy, just if you're looking at a race that
00:38:12you're looking forward to, one of the deepest editions of that I can remember for a long
00:38:16time, you get editions of that where you've got a marquee horse like a Wisedown or a
00:38:22DeHaas that everyone's looking forward to seeing.
00:38:23But to have the depth of talent in that race, I think is terrific.
00:38:28Smooth like straight was half length last year and he's like seventh on our list.
00:38:32So, yeah, I see what you mean.
00:38:35Exactly. You know, and modern games would have, I think, been a very heavy favorite.
00:38:40And then he's managed to throw a few ball bearings across the across the dance floor by
00:38:45running just all right on Saturday.
00:38:48And you're thinking, well, should they have run him?
00:38:50It was soft ground. Does that does that let Kinross in with a shout?
00:38:54Does that let Annapolis?
00:38:55I was really impressed with him in the in the Coolmore Mile for a three year old with
00:38:59such little experience.
00:39:01Who is the most logical favorite coming over from Europe?
00:39:05I mean, who would you say is is the lock neck?
00:39:09Do you have one? I don't think there's a lock, but I think there are some there are some
00:39:14logical market leaders.
00:39:16You know, I personally believe that Modern Games is a very logical market leader, even
00:39:20though he just got beat at the weekend.
00:39:22And Randy and I were discussing it.
00:39:23You know, some books have Kinross as the favorite in the British Cup Mile, but you don't
00:39:26know whether he can stretch out.
00:39:28People often say, well, an extended sprinter can go a mile in the US, but you've still
00:39:32got to run eight eighths of a mile.
00:39:35It doesn't matter whether it's around a flat, firm oval or whether it's up a straight
00:39:39away with cut in the ground. You still got to run run the same distance.
00:39:42So I think Modern Games is a worthy favorite in the mile.
00:39:45I would say that Nashua is a is a very clear cut favorite in the in the Philly and
00:39:51Mare turf, to be honest, that nine furlongs should be boldly ridden.
00:39:54She's not a Philly who stops.
00:39:56That should be ideal for her.
00:39:58The interesting thing about the the short two year old race where you've got Blackbeard,
00:40:03the very, very good two year old of Aiden O'Brien's four, he's a bit quirky, and the
00:40:06platinum queen who beat Elders the other day, they're running up against Tyler's tribe.
00:40:13So that again, that could be that could be pretty interesting.
00:40:16You spoke to him as well.
00:40:18Shameless plug for your podcast.
00:40:19But I listened to it this morning and we all spoke to him as well.
00:40:23He's a fabulous, fabulous guy.
00:40:25I'm wishing him the best of luck.
00:40:27Tim Martin.
00:40:27Yeah, I don't know him at all.
00:40:30I've only known what I read.
00:40:31And obviously, as you know, Zoe, I wouldn't have got his his contact details unless you
00:40:35give me his phone number.
00:40:37I think this is all this is all a great mutual backscratching exercise.
00:40:40But I think I don't I don't care where you're from in the world.
00:40:43You look at that race.
00:40:45I want him to win.
00:40:46I just think it's it would be just so good for the sport.
00:40:49It's such a great story.
00:40:50He's not for sale.
00:40:51He's five for five.
00:40:53Jockey breaking through trainer that might have been training since 1985.
00:40:58But the rest of the world hasn't heard of him, even if the even if Kentucky in the Midwest
00:41:02has, you know.
00:41:04Hey, Nick, I want to go back to Highfield Princess, because to me, she is, like you
00:41:07said, one of the great stories of the Breeders' Cup.
00:41:09It seems to me up to a certain point in her career, she was just a good horse.
00:41:14All of a sudden, she's won three in a row.
00:41:16I saw someone said she's the most improved horse in all of racing.
00:41:19What's her story?
00:41:20Where did she come from?
00:41:22Well, she's a homebred.
00:41:23She's actually got a pretty good pedigree.
00:41:25I used to work for her owner, John Fairley.
00:41:28He's a guy now he's well into his ninth decade.
00:41:32But he unbelievable pioneering TV executive.
00:41:36And he was part of the consortium that started Channel Four Racing with his independent
00:41:39production company. And he's always been a huge enthusiast for racing and breeding based
00:41:43up in New York. And he bought a racing stable in the mid 2000s.
00:41:48And he installed the trainer John Quinn, another guy who I have quite close associations
00:41:51with, because I've always had the odd bit of a horse in his yard.
00:41:54Some have been OK.
00:41:56None have been anywhere near as good as Highfield Princess, sadly.
00:41:59And John Fairley bought the dam of Highfield Princess in foal to Night of Thunder for
00:42:0518,000 guineas.
00:42:07And he immediately got a massive pedigree update because the foal that Godolphin raced,
00:42:12Cardsharp, ended up being a pretty good horse.
00:42:14So immediately she's worth a lot more than he paid.
00:42:17He puts this filly into training.
00:42:18She's by a stallion that nobody was interested in called Night of Thunder, who's now one
00:42:21of the elite size in Europe.
00:42:23So every bit of luck absolutely fell his way.
00:42:26She started off humbly running in low grade handicaps.
00:42:30She just took a while to get the hang of things.
00:42:32She never races a two year old.
00:42:34And then cutting back in distance was where she really started to find her stride.
00:42:38We knew she was good when she won at Royal Ascot as a four year old.
00:42:42And then she just kept progressing from there.
00:42:45And she's now a triple group one winner.
00:42:47And the other great thing, of course, is normally you get sprinters come to the U.S.
00:42:50They've not been around a bend.
00:42:52She's had a ton of experience running around a left handed bend.
00:42:55She's done a lot of winning at Chelmsford.
00:42:56So I'm not too worried on that score.
00:42:59So I got a question for you from 35,000 feet, so to speak.
00:43:04Obviously in America, as soon as the Triple Crown is over, everyone turns their attention
00:43:08to the Breeders' Cup.
00:43:09And one of the keys to the Breeders' Cup success since it was, you know, inaugurated
00:43:15back in 1984 has been the international, mainly the European participation.
00:43:19But now you've got British Champions Day, you know, in 2022.
00:43:24I mean, how has the attitude towards the Breeders' Cup by owners and trainers over
00:43:29there changed, if at all?
00:43:33See, here's what I think.
00:43:34I think more trainers are inclined to have the Breeders' Cup on their radar for a
00:43:40greater variety of horses.
00:43:43But it is not necessarily the absolute destination of choice for every champion like
00:43:49perhaps it was. I think that's where the differential is.
00:43:52But we still had Enable fairly recently.
00:43:55We still had Golden Horn fairly recently.
00:43:57We still had Found fairly recently.
00:44:00So it's not as though you can't get a genuine champion.
00:44:02But I think there was a time where the Breeders' Cup was the de facto destination for a
00:44:08horse that had really excelled in Europe.
00:44:10But what you are getting now is a much broader spread of trainers, a broader spread of
00:44:15horses. And it is still very much uppermost in people's minds.
00:44:19The point about whether British Champions Day would impinge on runners coming to the
00:44:24Breeders' Cup. Well, hello, let's look at it this year.
00:44:27You've got, let me ignore the staying race because nothing's going to come from that.
00:44:31But the sprint you've got, Kinross won easily, is coming for the mile.
00:44:35Creative Force ran great again, contender for the turf.
00:44:39Bayside Boy springs up out of nowhere, wins the QE2 at 33 to 1.
00:44:43They're now saying he's going to get on the plane, or at least he's having his tests done
00:44:46and everything as though he's going to get on the plane for the mile.
00:44:49And Bay Bridge, lo and behold, if you'd said to me a week ago, Bay Bridge comes to the
00:44:52Breeders' Cup turf, I'd have said absolutely not.
00:44:55But they all seem to be up for it.
00:44:57So I don't think it's, it doesn't appear to have detracted or or taken anything away
00:45:04from from the Breeders' Cup at all.
00:45:06In fact, it might have even added a few 11th hour horses who suddenly started to bloom.
00:45:13Nick, what's the feeling with Bay Bridge and the whole Bayid on Champions Day?
00:45:19What is the general sense of the feeling over there?
00:45:22And are they both going to come, the two new bays?
00:45:25Are they both coming with John O'Connor?
00:45:28Bayside Boy and Bay Bridge, I think, yeah, I think they are being prepared as if they
00:45:33are coming. And then they'll work their way towards it and see what happens, you know,
00:45:37see if the if the horses have come out of it well and see, see whether they think ground
00:45:41conditions are going to be suitable.
00:45:43I think both horses would want a bit of a bit of cut in the ground.
00:45:45Ideally, they'd want to see some moisture in the in the long range forecast.
00:45:50And as far as Bayid is concerned, obviously, there was a significant sense of deflation
00:45:56because I think the whole European racing world, the whole racing world wanted to see a
00:46:01performance that would set the seal on an on a on a blemish free career.
00:46:06And I think the fact that it was his last race and he was defeated in his last race made
00:46:12it all the more disappointing because they'd built to this point in such an exaggerated
00:46:18way. It felt like a big legacy play.
00:46:20The fact that he was having exactly the same final five races that Frankel had had in
00:46:242012, it had all those it was a rather kind of portentous build up.
00:46:30So you didn't just treat it like another horse being beaten in another race.
00:46:33Well, OK, he can win another one round the corner and his reputation isn't that
00:46:36diminished. So I think that's why there's a sense of deflation.
00:46:39I think give it a few more days, give it a few weeks.
00:46:41People reflect on his career in the round, realise he was an absolutely brilliant race
00:46:45horse and no reason why he shouldn't make a fantastic stallion.
00:46:49But, you know, there's no doubt it was disappointing.
00:46:53God, I'd love to have seen him at a Breeders' Cup in a Breeders' Cup mile or even in a
00:46:59well, maybe not in a maybe not in a classic with flight lining.
00:47:02But, you know, let's not be silly.
00:47:07But, you know, I'd like I'd love to have seen him seen him travel.
00:47:11But, you know, William Haggis has been a great sportsman in defeat.
00:47:15And the one thing I loved was that he was he was disinclined to attribute the
00:47:19performance simply to the ground.
00:47:21And I think that's right.
00:47:22He was running.
00:47:23He was travelling, moving nicely, made the ground up and then looked like a horse
00:47:29who'd gone over the top and had had enough of the year.
00:47:32Nick, even though I'm the president of the Tyler's Tribe fan club, this platinum
00:47:36queen, the platinum queen really intrigues me because in the US we don't have this.
00:47:41We don't know. We don't have two year olds even running against ever against older
00:47:44horses, let alone winning.
00:47:46To me, if you look on paper, wins a great one over older horses would make this horse
00:47:51almost just a short thing in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Sprint.
00:47:55But is there more to the story?
00:47:56You know, is this horse so imposing that the American horses like Tyler's Tribe or
00:48:00even the other Europeans coming over should be wary of this horse?
00:48:05I have huge regard for the platinum queen, but I I'm not I wouldn't want to
00:48:10launch into her at short odds in this race for a few reasons.
00:48:14Well, first of all, you have to remember that her two excellent runs in group ones
00:48:19have have come receiving a mountain of weight.
00:48:23I think was she getting 24 pounds at York and something similar in Paris-Landshort?
00:48:28So it's just a huge weight concession the older horses have to give her and as a
00:48:32filly as well. So she gets this monster age allowance and a sex allowance on top of
00:48:37it. So that that's something you've got to factor in.
00:48:40So it's not like she's beating older horses on the square.
00:48:44You know, if she were, then she'd be one to nine in the in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile
00:48:51Turf Sprint. But she's not.
00:48:52She's getting a huge allowance in the races here.
00:48:54They're the only two races you can run.
00:48:55Second, she's just done all her she has done all her racing in a straight line.
00:49:01And this is going to be something different.
00:49:03Yeah, she just she got a bit unbalanced at York.
00:49:07And York's York's a track that you shouldn't really be getting unbalanced on.
00:49:11And that does concern me a little bit, just how she's going to rail, how she's going to
00:49:15handle a bend. I think it'll be a big test against some, you know, against your Tyler's
00:49:20tribes of this world who are going to who are going to take her on for the for the lead.
00:49:25Yeah, she's not going to get an unhurried time of it, I don't think.
00:49:28What is the thought over in Europe coming over to basically want to see Flightline and
00:49:35the American contingent?
00:49:36I mean, the people hold him in high regard.
00:49:39Or is he just another fast American dirt horse or they hold him in the same esteem that
00:49:46we do over here?
00:49:48You know, I'd like to think that the message is permeated, you know, I I still think
00:49:54that in all of our countries where we're a bit parochial and don't look outside that
00:50:01much. But I think people who people who love horse racing in this country, if they've seen
00:50:07footage of Flightline, they are it will definitely make them turn on the TV when he runs
00:50:13in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:50:14I think that America's Best Racing and Breeders' Cup have been doing some great
00:50:19promotion of the horse.
00:50:20And I in our in our own small ways, I think we've been banging the drum as much as we
00:50:26possibly can, that this is this is genuinely something a bit special.
00:50:30This is once in a generation stuff.
00:50:32It's when you get a guy like Jay Pridman, who's watched at basically every single race
00:50:36run at Del Mar for the last.
00:50:3950 odd years, then he says he says it's the single best performance he's ever seen on
00:50:44that track, then everyone sits up and takes notice, this isn't this isn't hype for the
00:50:4821st century, this is this is the real deal.
00:50:51So I hope I hope it engages people as much as it's engaged us.
00:50:56Well, some great insights from Nick Gluck.
00:50:58You can, of course, catch him on the Breeders' Cup telecast, along with our good friend
00:51:01Randy Moss and co-panelists.
00:51:02Nick, thanks so much for your time.
00:51:04Enjoy the Breeders' Cup.
00:51:05Bill, thanks very much.
00:51:06Obviously, you know, I know, everybody knows that Randy taught me everything I know.
00:51:12That's what he tells us all the time, by the way.
00:51:14True. It's the truth.
00:51:16It's getting pretty deep in here, Nick.
00:51:19Thanks, Nick.
00:51:21The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting and tax
00:51:25consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:51:28And as this week's guest of the week, Nick Gluck will receive a free one hour tax
00:51:33consultation. I know for a fact that Nick owns a broodmare and he makes a lot of money.
00:51:39So tax consulting could really be good for Mr.
00:51:42Gluck. Learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:51:46We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
00:51:50Why do the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as their
00:51:54tax advisor? We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
00:51:58Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green has owned and bred some of the best race
00:52:02horses in the history of the sport.
00:52:03His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge, combined with cutting edge tax saving
00:52:07strategies, has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the Green Group
00:52:11the top rated accounting and tax firm in the business.
00:52:13For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100
00:52:19or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
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00:52:50Every dollar makes a difference to those who give everything to the sport that we love.
00:52:58And now it's time for the weekend preview brought to you by Three Chimneys.
00:53:01We're not only going to look at this weekend.
00:53:03Again, it's kind of quiet with no big races coming up so far as preps for the Breeders'
00:53:07Cup. We're also going to take a look at a couple of the Breeders' Cup races, give you
00:53:10some more thoughts on that as we go down the action, what is going to take place at
00:53:14Keeneland in two and a half weeks.
00:53:16At Aqueduct on Saturday, Belmont at Aqueduct, the Hill Prince and the Noble Damsel are on
00:53:21the scorecard.
00:53:22Their graded race is on the turf and the Maryland Million will be run this weekend at
00:53:26Laurel. But I think, Zoe, the most interesting action of the weekend is taking place at
00:53:30Keeneland. First of all, Keeneland is featuring the Raven Run, Sakes of Lexus Raven Run, a
00:53:35grade two race. Very interesting horse in there in Fingal's Cave, trained by Dave Dogg.
00:53:40I'm really interested to see how this horse does.
00:53:42Four for four, an undefeated New York Red, but has never faced off against open company
00:53:47before. What do you know about Fingal's Cave?
00:53:49Well, she's a very good filly indeed.
00:53:50And I actually got a chance to speak to Dave Dogg about her.
00:53:54There are a lot of nominations in here because she's a New York Red and she's purely won
00:53:58her earnings in restricted races.
00:54:01Those don't count, but I'm pretty sure she's going to get in.
00:54:04Dave's pretty sure she's going to get in.
00:54:05So that shouldn't be a problem.
00:54:07And speaking to Dave, he's not scared about facing older.
00:54:11Shameless plug to my good friend, Marette Farrell, who purchased this Carpe Diem filly
00:54:15for not much money, just $75,000 at the OBS April sale.
00:54:20And she's done nothing but win ever since.
00:54:23Short, long, muddy, fast track.
00:54:26She's tactical.
00:54:27I personally think she might be a better filly around one turn rather than two.
00:54:33Her owner, Ali Fife, is a Scotsman, a good friend of mine, a guy with the best shoes
00:54:38you'll ever see in your life.
00:54:39You see some guy walking around Keeneland with a fancy pair of shoes on, you can bet
00:54:43your life it's Ali Fife.
00:54:45And he's a guy who's put a lot of money into the game.
00:54:48And this most definitely is his best filly.
00:54:51Originally, she was purchased from Sequel Stables at the OBS sale.
00:54:58She was named Out of Money Honey, which we thought was a great name for her.
00:55:02And I think Ali's wife liked it as well.
00:55:04But Ali didn't like it.
00:55:05So he renamed her Fingal's Cave.
00:55:08And it's proven to be good, not bad luck at all.
00:55:11And she'll have to deal with Wicked Halo, a winner of three straight races, including
00:55:15the grade two priors.
00:55:16Now, a caveat, we're giving these horses out and talking about these races for the
00:55:21entries are drawn.
00:55:22So if one of these horses doesn't show up in the race, don't blame us.
00:55:26We're just trying to get our schedule done and get everything done in time.
00:55:29Also, Saturday at Keeneland is the Perryville.
00:55:31The obvious favor in there will be Gunite, the winner of last year's grade one hopeful.
00:55:35Surprisingly, this is not a graded race.
00:55:38Certainly looks like on paper and the type of horses lining up where that should be.
00:55:41But Artorias is in there as well.
00:55:43Remember this horse won the Kerlin stakes, came back in the Travers, ran sixth, has
00:55:47been had a fresh name for Chad Brown since the Travers.
00:55:50Zoe, what do you know about Artorias?
00:55:52He runs well fresh and he's a big, beautiful looking son of Arrogate.
00:55:56You see this here?
00:55:58It's Arrogate right there.
00:56:00That's a World Cup right there.
00:56:02Big, beautiful son of Arrogate.
00:56:03Most recently worked with Jack Christopher.
00:56:05Keeping the best company in the morning for Chad Brown and he's got to be one of the
00:56:11favorites going in there.
00:56:12Would you not think, Randy?
00:56:13Yeah, I'm a little surprised that Steve Aspenson didn't run Gunite in the Dirt Mile.
00:56:19He was originally considered to be one of the contenders for the Dirt Mile and I thought
00:56:23he would at least be in with a shot because he's in outstanding form right now.
00:56:27So a little surprised that he's going in this race instead of the Dirt Mile.
00:56:30And one more note, something you said earlier, if you see anyone walking through
00:56:34Keeneland with a pair of fancy shoes on, it will not be me or Bill.
00:56:38That's for sure, yeah.
00:56:40Yes, as long as you don't think 1999 Wal-Mart specials are fancy shoes.
00:56:45And it won't be Lucy either, right?
00:56:47He's back.
00:56:48Bye, Lucy.
00:56:50The TD and Writer's Room and the Weekend Preview is brought to you by Three Chimneys.
00:56:54Shark Azteca got his third stakes winner over the weekend with Alma Rose, who won the
00:57:00White Clay Creek Stakes for owner breeder Gelfenstein Farm.
00:57:04We're looking forward to watching another member, another two actually, of Sharp Azteca's
00:57:08first crop, Tyler's Tribe and Sharp Aztec, who are both being pointed now for the Breeders'
00:57:15Cup Juvenile Turf Sprint in two and a half weeks at Keeneland.
00:57:19We'll be right back for part two of the Weekend Preview after this message from Three Chimneys.
00:57:25Here comes Tabor.
00:57:27Tabor in the center of the track with good looking stride.
00:57:29Squares off with Cyberknife.
00:57:31Cyberknife takes the lead.
00:57:32Tabor going with him.
00:57:33These two in a thriller.
00:57:35Cyberknife just in front.
00:57:37And Cyberknife has won the TBG.com Haskell over Tabor.
00:57:42Jack Christopher finished third.
00:57:43The running time, 1 minute 46.24 seconds.
00:57:50Come dream with us at Three Chimneys.
00:57:54Well, Randy, last week we gave Ed DeRosa's line for the Breeders' Cup Classic, and he
00:57:59had Flightline as an obvious favorite in there.
00:58:01Zoe, before we get Randy's take on what the morning line will be on the Classic, you were
00:58:05there at Santa Anita on Saturday.
00:58:07I've heard nothing, but what else would you expect?
00:58:09Glowing reports on Flightline's workout.
00:58:11What did you see?
00:58:13Well, if you didn't see it, you can watch it again on xbtv.com.
00:58:16I'm just throwing in these shameless plugs all the way through here.
00:58:19But again, you didn't see a lot to be perfectly honest.
00:58:22And John Sadler simply said that next week he's liable to go at 7.45, because it's getting
00:58:28darker here in the mornings.
00:58:29If you watch the work, you're basically just going to see some lights.
00:58:33It looked a little bit lighter in person, and he did it very easily.
00:58:37He won labor.
00:58:37I bought him once more.
00:58:39Officially, I think he went in 1, 11, and 4, and out in 25 and change.
00:58:44So a very good work time-wise.
00:58:47This is his penultimate work.
00:58:49So actually, no, he's got two more works to go.
00:58:52He'll have one more, probably 7.45 on Saturday, and then one at Keeneland, which will basically
00:58:57just be a once-around, gallop-around feel of the racetrack.
00:59:00He looks super.
00:59:01I mean, I went back to the barn and saw him.
00:59:04It's so funny.
00:59:05His groom, Rene, holds him out there, literally at the end of the shank.
00:59:09Now, if I was John, I might be a bit worried that the world's best horse is 12 feet away
00:59:14from his hot walker there.
00:59:16But he'll just stand there and watch horses go by or watch birds flying through the sky.
00:59:22He's just a cool dude to be around and just a really cool horse.
00:59:26Now, Randy, you made him 3 to 5 in your line.
00:59:28I was trying to find if there was any betting started on the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:59:32Betfair has opened up an anti-post wager.
00:59:35Not a very little money in the pool so far, but they have him at 7 to 10 trading right
00:59:42now at 70 cents on the dollar.
00:59:44So, I see you made him a flight line at 3 to 5.
00:59:46And that looks like, you know what, I'm thinking that's the right line.
00:59:51But at the end of the day, we might be saying that was a bargain.
00:59:54Yeah.
00:59:54I'll take that one.
00:59:56I mean, 3 to 5, I think, is pretty legitimate in my opinion.
01:00:00I think that's what Idarosa had him as well, if I'm not mistaken, given the competition
01:00:04that he's facing, right?
01:00:05I mean, he's got some pretty good horses he's lined up against.
01:00:08You know, of course, those horses haven't done anything like he did in the Pacific Classic,
01:00:12but there's nothing wrong with Epicenter or Teva or Life is Good.
01:00:15Those are pretty solid horses.
01:00:17If you believe that, of course, pair mutuals, as you all know, if you believe that flight
01:00:22line is going to go off at a shorter price than 3 to 5, say 1 to 2 or 2 to 5, then you
01:00:27can take those other horses and raise them a tick.
01:00:31But if for some reason you don't like flight line or you want to bet against flight line,
01:00:35you have no shortage of options and you'll definitely get a decent price.
01:00:40Now, obviously, the Classic is going to dominate the conversation as it is today and is going
01:00:44to be throughout the weeks leading up to the Breeders' Cup.
01:00:47But I got to tell you guys, the Breeders' Cup Distaff is a terrific, terrific race in
01:00:52there.
01:00:53Randy, what did you make?
01:00:54Who did you make the morning line favorite in the Distaff and why?
01:00:56It was tough, Bill.
01:00:59Between Nest and Malifat, I'm pretty confident, obviously, that the favorite, the betting
01:01:03favorite is going to be one of those two Todd Pletcher-trained superstar females.
01:01:09It's just tough to figure out exactly which one is going to take the most money.
01:01:13I mean, Malifat was narrowly beaten in the Breeders' Cup Distaff last year and she's
01:01:17hitting on all cylinders right now after that win in the Spinster and then before that in
01:01:21the Personal Instinct.
01:01:22And Nest is just dominating every field that she runs against in the three-year-old Philly
01:01:27division. I'll buy it against lesser competition than Malifat has been facing.
01:01:31In the end, I made Nest 2 to 1 and Malifat 5 to 2.
01:01:37But again, in the Distaff, you talked about how good the field is.
01:01:40Search results was just beaten a half length by Malifat in the Personal Instinct after
01:01:45having a clear lead in mid-stretch.
01:01:48And they were the same price in the Personal Instinct.
01:01:51They were both at 3 to 1.
01:01:53So, you know, search results is going to get played.
01:01:56Clairie Eyre was the favorite over Malifat the last time they ran against each other.
01:02:01She laid an egg last time out, but with a potential excuse in the starting gate before
01:02:06the race, and there's nothing wrong with society.
01:02:09You're going to get 5 to 1 or 6 to 1 on society, who, if you look at the past performances
01:02:14of this race, is probably going to be cruising along on an uncontested early lead.
01:02:20Nest has very little early speed.
01:02:21Malifat has even less than that.
01:02:24You don't think search results is probably going to – they probably don't want to go
01:02:26out head-in-head with society.
01:02:28So, society is probably going to control the pace.
01:02:31And given the way she ran her last two starts, that makes her very dangerous.
01:02:35What a race from top to bottom that this has, Zoe.
01:02:39I love society.
01:02:40And I think you've hit the nail right on the head.
01:02:42She is absolutely going to be cruising.
01:02:44She's gunrunner, right?
01:02:46Is she gunrunner?
01:02:47Yes, yes.
01:02:48Another gunrunner.
01:02:50I like her.
01:02:51I honestly think not enough has been made of Clairie Eyre bashing her head in the gate
01:02:56as she did last time out.
01:02:59And I think anytime you hit your head that hard, I just toss out the race completely.
01:03:05So, I think we're going to see a much better version of Clairie Eyre.
01:03:08And don't forget, she's already beaten Malifat.
01:03:11So, if you're just tossing her out on that one race last time, I'll take all the money
01:03:18I can on Clairie Eyre.
01:03:19Yeah, Zoe, I'm with you.
01:03:21She's the forgotten horse in this for the very reasons that you said.
01:03:25I mean, people are talking about Malifat perhaps being the favorite.
01:03:27But Randy, I think you're right.
01:03:28I think Ness will be the favorite.
01:03:30But Clairie Eyre at 9-2 in your line, that's the bargain to me.
01:03:33That's the value because she beat Malifat on the square twice this year before she had
01:03:39that incident that happened.
01:03:41It obviously cost her a personal ensign.
01:03:43Steve Asmussen is a trainer.
01:03:44You know he's going to have her ready.
01:03:46I think she's very, very dangerous in here.
01:03:48And she came back to Zoe's point about hitting her head in the gate.
01:03:50She came back with a tongue that was cut and bleeding.
01:03:55Right.
01:03:55You'd have to think.
01:03:56I mean, I'm not much for excuses, for trainer excuses, you know, horses bite their tongues
01:04:01or things like that, you know, and they typically run their race anyway.
01:04:04But you'd have to think that given the fact that she ran so far below the form that she
01:04:11had been running, combined with what happened to her in the gate, you'd have to think that
01:04:15that's a legitimate excuse.
01:04:16Now, I said I made it 2-1 and 5-2.
01:04:19I think it was 2-1 for Ness, 3-1 for Malifat.
01:04:23But it's going to be close one way or the other.
01:04:26I mean, hindsight is 20-20.
01:04:27Ideally, she probably should have been backed out of the gate and taken a look at.
01:04:32But hindsight is 20-20 and she ran the race.
01:04:34And that was not the clairvoyant at any point in the race.
01:04:38I mean, not one point in the race was that the filly that we've seen before.
01:04:43So to me, I'd just draw a line through it.
01:04:46The TDN Writing Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:04:50Joining a West Point Thoroughbred partnership could launch you right into the winner's circle.
01:04:55But basically half the cost.
01:04:57Now, last week, West Point had a promising juvenile winner last Friday with Signator,
01:05:02who was a $1.7 million purchase for West Point Thoroughbred and their partners this past April.
01:05:08Randy, did you happen to see Signator 1?
01:05:11Because if you're in West Point, $1.7 million goes a long way.
01:05:15You could probably have got in there for $500 if you wanted.
01:05:18I missed Signator's race.
01:05:20But if I was one of those investors in West Point, I definitely would have been.
01:05:23I would have had my nose up to the monitor watching that one with $1.7 million at stake.
01:05:28And one of the interesting things about Signator is that much has been made about Flightline's female family
01:05:34through the damn Feathered as being one of those blue-blooded Ogden Phipps female families, Phipps family.
01:05:42The same thing with Signator. First damn Pension.
01:05:45Second damn Furlough, if you remember Furlough.
01:05:47She won the Ballerina. Third damn Blighty.
01:05:50Fourth damn, all the way back to Lady Pitt, who was one of the original Ogden Phipps, blue hen, blue mares.
01:05:57A very talented racehorse, really, Lady Pitt.
01:06:00So a lot to like about the pedigree of Signator, which is why Signator brought $1.7 million.
01:06:08Absolutely. Signator by Taffet became the 50th TDN Rising Star.
01:06:13We'll be right back with this message from West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:06:19All the thrills. Fraction of the bills.
01:06:27Experience the power of the partnership.
01:06:33Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of Thoroughbred racing.
01:06:40West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:06:44Visit WestPointTV.com.
01:06:48Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:06:51We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:06:53We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:06:55We're always with your horse, every step of the way.
01:06:59When it comes to being at the sales ground, shelling your horses, we are with your horse.
01:07:04Just driving up and down the road every day.
01:07:06There's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal, the people that come to invest in the game.
01:07:12I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
01:07:19The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:07:23If you think 50 years of combined experience in the horse business could benefit your program, then give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:07:30They personally advise you on each horse as if that horse were their own.
01:07:35And a reminder, the deadline for the Keeneland January sale is November 1.
01:07:39Legacy has sold 85% of their offerings for the last three years at that sale.
01:07:45So give Tommy or Wendy a shout or visit LegacyBloodstockLLC.com.
01:07:52Well, this week's Remy cartoon is in and it's thoroughbred makeover season.
01:07:55We just had these competitions going on.
01:07:57And how does that affect the psyche of a horse?
01:07:59Well, Remy has a horse on a therapist's couch saying to the therapist, they keep trying to make me over, looking kind of confused.
01:08:06So that's Remy Bullock knocks it out of the park again with that cartoon.
01:08:10Well, that's a wrap for this week's show.
01:08:12I want to thank my co-host, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin, Green Group Guest of the Week, Nick Pluck, as well as our producer, Patty Wolf, our assistant producer, our associate producer, I should say, Katie Petruniak, our editors, Nathan Wilkinson, Aliyah LaRocca, Anthony LaRocca.
01:08:27That's it for another edition of TDN Riders Room.
01:08:29Thanks so much for joining us.
01:08:30We'll talk to you next week.