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00:00:25Good morning. It is 9.04 Wednesday, September 29th. This is the TDN Writer's Room presented
00:00:31by Keeneland. My name is Joe Bianca. I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily
00:00:35News and as loath as I am to talk about the Red Sox, I got Bill's pulse check after losing
00:00:41four in a row.
00:00:42Joe, I got to admit it. It's not looking good, but we still have games against the Orioles
00:00:47and Nationals. They're going to make the postseason and then only to crush me even further in
00:00:51the wildcard game, they're going to lose 14 to one to the Yankees.
00:00:54Hey, I'm Kelsey Riley, International Editor of the TDN. I'm not going to get into that
00:01:00banter, but I'm just excited to be back with you guys on Christmas week, aka our week.
00:01:05Yeah, that's right. We're glad to have Kelsey here. And honestly, the less Red Sox talk,
00:01:10the better. But I just I had to kneel Bill with that just for now.
00:01:14The TDN Writer's Room is presented by Keeneland. We're just nine days away from the start of
00:01:19the Keeneland Fall Meet. Opening weekend marks the track's 85th anniversary with lots
00:01:23of exciting runners nominated for Fall Stars Weekend and Opening Weekend. Lots of Breeders
00:01:27Cup Challenge races. Latruska will hope to get our fifth consecutive graded stakes win
00:01:31and the Juddmont Spencer stakes trying to lock up that Horse of the Year title.
00:01:36Plus, several high profile horses are looking to defend their titles from last year with
00:01:40Ivar in the Keeneland's and Keeneland's Shadwell turf mile, which I liked him last year. Hopefully
00:01:45you can repeat Diamond Oops in the Grade 2 Stolken, Keenan, Ogden, Phoenix stakes.
00:01:50And in the midst of Biz, we pulled off a big upset in the Grade 2 Durban Club of America
00:01:55stakes. So definitely very important for them to defend their titles going into the Breeders
00:01:59Cup. And we're looking forward to that Keeneland Fall Meet big time.
00:02:03All right. So the big action over the weekend was at Parks. It was a great card. Lots, lots
00:02:07of lots of great stakes. But obviously, the headliner and the headline race was going
00:02:11to be Hot Rod Charlie in the Pennsylvania Derby. You know, he was very impressive. There
00:02:18was a little bit of controversy with him drifting out at the top of the stretch, carrying Midnight
00:02:22Bourbon wide. I thought it was the right call to leave him up. I don't you know, I generally
00:02:28do not like that kind of hurting and drifting. And I think it should be discouraged. But
00:02:32you know, with the way he won, with the way he finished up, I don't think you can say
00:02:36that it cost that cost Midnight Bourbon to win in that race. So I think that was the
00:02:40right call. And the main thing I really thought about that race was how Charlie to me is probably
00:02:46going to be one of the unluckiest non-champions, non-champion three-year-olds in history.
00:02:51You know, with the year that he's had, he ran that monster race in the Belmont where
00:02:56he was setting this blazing pace, just got run down late by essential quality. Then obviously,
00:03:00the race in the Haskell where he was, I think, much the best. He was wide on both turns and
00:03:05then got dequeued, obviously, because of the incident in mid-stretch, which I don't know,
00:03:11to this day, I still think you could say is not was not entirely his fault. I thought that there
00:03:15was some mutual bumping there with Mandeloon as well. And then, you know, in this race,
00:03:21this is the kind of performance that I think might involve him to the top of the three-year-old
00:03:25division in any other year. But because essential quality has had such a great year, he won the
00:03:29Travers, he won the Belmont. I think it's not going to be enough unless maybe he wins the
00:03:33Breeders' Cup Classic in really impressive fashion. Maybe he can change some voters' minds.
00:03:37But that was my main takeaway, was that in any other year, I feel like Hot Rod Charlie would
00:03:42be a lock for three-year-old champion. But it just has been such a star-crossed year for him
00:03:47in terms of getting what he deserved in these big races. What do you guys think?
00:03:52Yeah, Joe, I mean, I agree with every single point you made. And, you know, he looks like
00:03:57he's got a chance in the Breeders' Cup Classic. I mean, why not? You know, he's you could argue
00:04:02that he's as good as essential quality. I don't think you would say that he's better
00:04:06because essential quality has had such a good year. But, you know, based on the performances,
00:04:10based on his race in the Belmont, where even though he was second, he was likely the better
00:04:14horse of the two. You could make an argument that he might just be the best three-year-old out there.
00:04:19You know, and that was the other thing, too. I mean, you don't really feel sorry for a horse
00:04:23because they don't know, of course, what's going on. But man, is he unlucky with what he's done
00:04:28this year. And then all the things that you just said, if ever a horse deserved a big win like
00:04:33this, this was a case. And now he goes forward into the Breeders' Cup. I also agree with you
00:04:38100%. That would have been a terrible thing for you to take down there. Wouldn't that have been
00:04:43just one more just, you know, oh, my goodness, you know, can't this poor horse get a break?
00:04:47But, you know, I don't I guess Flavien Pratt was just race fighting. And, you know, whether it's
00:04:53something that should be encouraged or discouraged or not, I'd have to speak for another day.
00:04:56But it definitely wasn't anything that he warranted a disqualification. So the race became
00:05:02easier, obviously, when Medina Spirit, through those circumstances, was in and then out. And now
00:05:08he's going to run in California this weekend. So, you know, he beat a very good field. I feel that
00:05:14would have been better with Medina Spirit in there. But he had two thumbs up for a good
00:05:18performer tonight. Excuse me, Hot Rod. Yeah, I agree. It was great to see Hot Rod Charlie get
00:05:24that much deserved grade one, I agree that it was, it was the right call. It was unfortunate to
00:05:30see, you know, that hurting out at the top of the stretch, but I think he was he was the best horse,
00:05:36he was going to win. And I also agree that, you know, what happened in the Haskell,
00:05:41while he deserves to come down after the incident happened, I don't know that it was entirely his
00:05:45fault. So it was really good to see him finally put it all together and get that deserved grade
00:05:51one. And, you know, I don't think that I don't think that the three year old championship is
00:05:57necessarily tied up. I think we really do have to see what happens in the Breeders Cup. It looks,
00:06:02you know, very tight at the moment between between him and essential quality. And of course,
00:06:08you're going to have, you know, many other top horses in there like, like Nick's go. So,
00:06:13I mean, it might be a lot to ask at this stage. But my wish would just be to see a cleanly run
00:06:17race where we can see every horse put in their best effort and I guess really see who the best
00:06:22three year old is. Yeah, no controversy, no drug DQs, no DQs of any kind. Definitely would like
00:06:29to see that, you know, the horses just settle it on the racetrack for once in this crazy year that
00:06:34we've had. I just wanted to mention a couple other performances from the weekend. Jackie's
00:06:38Warrior obviously was was devastating, incredible. And I want to talk about life is good to in the
00:06:44Kelso. Now, that race was basically a walkover for him. There was really nobody in that race
00:06:50that could mess with him on paper. And it played out that way on the track and especially in that
00:06:55he got an easy lead. He was able to dictate pretty soft fractions, especially for him.
00:07:00But just in general, I tweeted this after the race. It was good to see both of them,
00:07:04you know, come right back off of that big duel in the Alan Jerkins and run their races because,
00:07:10you know, the races like that can take a lot out of horse, especially for life is good
00:07:14because he was coming off of that long layoff and the injuries for him to come back and run
00:07:18that huge race in Saratoga and then be able to come back and run so well in the Kelso.
00:07:23He only got a ninety nine buyer, but I thought he finished up great. You know,
00:07:27one thirty four and change is really moving for a mile, especially if you if you go in one ten
00:07:32for three quarters. So we definitely finished up really strong. And I think the two of them
00:07:36are going to be very tough to beat in their respective Breeders' Cup races. Now, they're
00:07:40probably not going to meet in the Breeders' Cup. It looks like Jackie's Warriors can go to the
00:07:43sprint while life is good is going to go to the dirt mile. But, you know, I just now that the
00:07:49three year old male conversation is basically down to essential quality and hot rod, Charlie.
00:07:54I think we also have to appreciate the three year old male sprinters and milers. And it's
00:07:59just what a deep class of three year olds we've had this year. And it's nice to be able to see
00:08:04them all strut their stuff on a day like Saturday. And it really sets up for a really
00:08:09intriguing Breeders' Cup where I think, you know, in a lot of races, the three year olds
00:08:13really have a great shot against the elder horses. And I don't think that's always the case.
00:08:17So I think we've really been we've been blessed to see a lot of great three year olds this year.
00:08:22And we talked about it last week, all the all the really good two year old performances we've had
00:08:26so far this year might have even more next year, even more to talk about with these top class
00:08:31three year olds. I wonder if you guys had any thoughts about the rest of the races on Saturday.
00:08:36Yeah, I mean, sticking with the three year old sprinters, Joe, I mean, I don't want to take
00:08:39anything away from them. Particularly life is good. But I mean, to me, what is that race?
00:08:44I mean, prove that he's fine, that he's still a good horse, etc. But, you know, consider I mean,
00:08:49what's the last time you saw a horse pay 210 to win? I'm not talking about bridge jumpers to show.
00:08:54And when chance it was pulled up, it became a three horse race. The horse that finished second
00:08:58was a $50,000 claimer. I mean, he did what he had to do. I mean, you know, he went out and won
00:09:03easily. But you know, that race didn't really prove anything to me. But at the same time,
00:09:08I mean, you know, if his year worked out differently, and he was more lucky earlier in
00:09:14the year, and didn't get hurt, we might be talking about him as the favorite for the Breeders Cup
00:09:18Classic, because, you know, let's go back to back in March and everything about how good he looked
00:09:23and how everybody just thought this was going to be a sensational horse. And Jackie's career
00:09:27down a part down, Bob, pretty much more the same. I mean, in an easy spot where he really
00:09:31would have had to do something wrong to lose. He got the job done. But I do agree. I mean,
00:09:36you know, if you add them to the mix, you know, they're not contenders for the three
00:09:40year old championship because of the strength of Charlie and his quality. I think Jackie's
00:09:45worry very easily could be championed. In fact, if he went to Breeders, he will be.
00:09:50But yeah, add them to the division. And we've had absolutely a lot of quality this year.
00:09:54Yeah, and you don't you know, we don't have john here just for so he doesn't make the case for
00:10:00gamine to be champion male sprinter. Sorry, sorry, Kelsey, I didn't mean to interrupt.
00:10:05No, that's okay. No, I think you guys covered the weekend action pretty well. The only thing I would
00:10:10I would just echo what you said, Joe, about how it's nice to see, you know, the top two year olds
00:10:15from last year coming in really, really still being competitive this year, like essential quality
00:10:20hotrod Charlie one, two in the Breeders Cup juvenile, and they're still, you know, fighting
00:10:24out the division. And of course, Jackie's warrior, you know, didn't didn't quite hit the heights in
00:10:29that in that Breeders Cup last year, but he's, you know, gone into a different division. And he's
00:10:33just like an absolute pleasure to watch. He's one incredible horse. Yeah. And you know, like we said
00:10:39in the past, it was it was good of his connections to back off right after the southwest and not try
00:10:45to press forward on the derby trail because you know, it was they knew right away off of that race
00:10:50that they were better off with a sprinter miler type. And it's definitely worked out for them.
00:10:54But it's a good point by Kelsey that that Breeders Cup juvenile has turned out to be
00:10:58extremely live race with what these horses have gone on to do this year.
00:11:01We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:11:31The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting, tax, consulting,
00:11:40and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry. With over 500 clients in the horse
00:11:44business, they have proven strategies to save you taxes. Learn more about how they can help
00:11:49you at www.greenco.com. So we are beyond thrilled this week. This guy is a very big get for our
00:11:56show. We appreciate him making time the hottest trainer in the world, I would say right now,
00:12:00Charlie Appleby, thanks so much for coming on.
00:12:02It's a pleasure to meet you. And thank you very much for asking me to come on.
00:12:06Of course, yeah, no, we had an entire segment last week about you in the year you've had and kind of
00:12:11made you know, in the past five years, you really have exploded onto the scene and seem to be
00:12:15winning basically every big race. I know you're you're a humble guy, you like to live in the
00:12:20moment and you like to stay positive. How just give me a sense of how these past couple of years
00:12:25have been for you and how you've just ticked off these accomplishments one after another.
00:12:30How has it been? Obviously, there's been fantastic for myself,
00:12:34more importantly for the team and good old spin. And I've been in good often, but just
00:12:40gone on 20, 22, 23 years now. So on the global scene, I've been around for a long time. And
00:12:46that's what I felt that's helped me achieve what we've done over the last few years and knowing
00:12:53what the race pattern is like and what sort of horse you need to get there. And
00:12:57at the end of the day, without the horses, none of it will be achievable. So
00:13:01frankly, we've had the horses over the last few years, but I've always felt that
00:13:06we had a little bit of a handle on what we needed to run internationally. And frankly,
00:13:11we chose the right horse and got the right results. Thanks so much for joining us. And
00:13:18you know, we're focusing obviously in on what you've done this year in North America,
00:13:22which has been absolutely phenomenal. You've entered in 10 races, you've won six of them.
00:13:27The Jockey Club Derby is not yet a grade one. It will be next year when it's run for its third
00:13:31year. So for all practical purposes, you've won six grade one races in the States this year and
00:13:37Canada as well. We've seen you come over to North America before, but never anything quite like
00:13:42this. Both of the amount of races you've run in and the kind of success you had. What happened
00:13:47this year with Godolphin and your operation that you became so active in North American racing?
00:13:55I think it's the type of horse that we had. You know, firstly, the Phillies in the spring now,
00:14:01in our spring, should we call it, with Althika and Summer Romance,
00:14:06you know, coming over to the States early. Obviously they campaigned in Dubai and I felt
00:14:11that their form had risen again in Dubai, not because of the, you know, some people will say,
00:14:17well, you know, the calibre of horse you're running against wasn't the best or what you
00:14:22would take on in America for sure. But what we learned about the Phillies was their style of
00:14:28racing and the slick track suited them. So, you know, for them with their profile, there was never
00:14:36a profile for them to come to Europe the first half of the season anyway. So we consciously made
00:14:43a decision early that they would ship from Dubai straight to the States. As we saw, they thrived
00:14:52out there, the two Phillies. I thought Summer Romance reversed the placings with Althika there
00:14:59on her second start there and Diana, you know, because of what we saw in Dubai, the switch in
00:15:06distance helped Summer Romance. But look, Althika, she's as tough as teak as they say and
00:15:14what she achieved out there was great and looking forward to playing again tomorrow afternoon and
00:15:20tomorrow evening back out to England for the first lady. So she was obviously the get-go to it.
00:15:27And then we had Rebels Romance, who unfortunately we didn't get to see him over there. But I was
00:15:32excited about sending him over there on his profile, again, of what he achieved in Dubai
00:15:37and the race he ran in Saudi. So look, he's a girl, he's son of Dubai, so hopefully he'll be
00:15:43around for a few years yet. So a bit of luck so I can get him out next year and start to
00:15:52get back to where I was hoping he could reach to the limits.
00:15:58And Charlie, you talked there about the strategy with some of those older horses that you brought
00:16:04across. And of course, you won two great ones with Albar and Wild Beauty. And then you also have,
00:16:12you know, of course, a fantastic stable of two-year-olds over there in Native Trail,
00:16:16Kiribati, Noble Truth. I was just curious, you know, in the winter, spring, when you start
00:16:22getting all of these two-year-olds into your yard, at what stage are you able to sort of
00:16:27sort them out, know what order they fit in within your group?
00:16:33I think we've been very lucky year on year. I would like to say over the last sort of
00:16:38four years, the system we've put in place here, every two-year-old will go through the same
00:16:44system in the spring. They all get broken in pretty much at the same time, obviously during
00:16:48a period of about six to eight weeks. We hope that most of those are broken in.
00:16:53Apart from the very backward-looking two-year-olds, which you know, it's not much point in trying to
00:16:58ask them any more than what they're potentially doing in the spring. We leave them, so there's
00:17:0225-30% of the string will be, or the two-year-olds will be just left alone. The other 70% there will
00:17:11all go through exactly the same program day in, day out. And it's like, I like to look at it as a
00:17:18kid in a playground. You see them all running around at the same age, and then you see ones
00:17:22that are doing exactly the same exercise as his friend next door, but he's strengthening and
00:17:28finding life a lot easier. So therefore, as the weeks go on, you start to put them in their
00:17:32pecking order of, he's ready to push a bit more and he sits where he is. And the other one,
00:17:38you drop out and just say, well, he needs more time. So they all start the same. They all go
00:17:43through a program, but I feel that the program we have in place now sort of sorts them out and
00:17:49puts them in their pecking order, you know, early in the spring. I wonder about your background a
00:17:54little bit and your influences, because you're a relatively young guy. You were in the Godolphin
00:17:58program for a while. You were assistant to Saeed Bensour. But I wonder about your,
00:18:03kind of your influences within Godolphin or outside of Godolphin. Who were some of the people
00:18:08that maybe took you under their wing early on and taught you things that have allowed you
00:18:13to have this kind of success relatively early in your, you know, individual training career?
00:18:19I've been very lucky. I've been brought up in the West country of England, where life is
00:18:24relaxed and you become more hands on down there in dealing with the horses. And so therefore,
00:18:32I started my childhood off there. I moved up the country and went to my first sort of stable in
00:18:38Newmarket with Susan and Lester Piggott. So, you know, with respect to racing knowledge,
00:18:45I don't think I could have been in better hands. I spent a lot of time with Lester watching racing
00:18:51and the great Barney Curley. So I learned how to read a race, I felt, there and understand,
00:18:58you know, the style of racing and the pace of race. From there on, I went to David Loader's.
00:19:04Again, as I'm sure a lot of you know, the two-year-old academy was, you know,
00:19:09back in the sort of early, late 90s, 2000s, was, you know, a force to be reckoned with. So I
00:19:17learned a lot about two-year-olds and, you know, how far to push them and what they needed to
00:19:24achieve or what we needed to achieve to get them to group one status. And then obviously on to then
00:19:29from David's, I would join Godolphin. I joined Godolphin at the age of 19 or 20. So from there
00:19:39on, it was just, you know, very lucky. I had a management position throughout my whole career
00:19:44in Godolphin, just, you know, as I say, started off the travelling so that allowed me to travel
00:19:48worldwide and go overseas. I spent a lot of time in Arlington and went to Belmont, you know.
00:19:53And so, again, being in the Godolphin operation allows you to meet people out there who are,
00:20:04I would never normally have met in a racing world. But because Godolphin, we're very lucky,
00:20:10we get moved around the world and get to meet some great people. They sort of influence you
00:20:17in, you know, you see these entrepreneurs and once you've been around those sort of people,
00:20:21you get a buzz off them and you learn how they strive for success. And I think it sort of gets
00:20:29instilled into you in a way. And obviously, who I work for now in Godolphin is, you know,
00:20:34what we've seen with, you know, Dubai being built. We never use can't in our vocabulary,
00:20:43we say. We strive to achieve and if it doesn't happen, well, we take the positives out of it,
00:20:50move on and negatives were brushed aside. Charlie, I understand it's a little bit early
00:20:55and things are fluid and could change. But can you simply run down who you have for the
00:21:00Breeders' Cup, which horses, which races that you're pointing for at this point?
00:21:04Obviously, well, you know, we have those the four horses who sort of got their sort of winning
00:21:08their end tickets, the two tools there in Canada and Al Bar and Wild Beauty. Al Bar, he's a gilded
00:21:15son of Dubai, but he reminds me very similar of Line of Duty. He's a character, but he's one of
00:21:20those little horses that you put him in a little bit of a dogfight and he enjoys that. And so,
00:21:25you know, Delmar would shoot him there, tight turns there and probably not being visually
00:21:30watching it, you'll never be comfortable watching him, but he loved it in amongst them all and
00:21:34getting knocked about because he put his head down and they keep battling. So, you know, he's a
00:21:41player. I'm sure there'll be some classier Colts turn up on the day, but one thing he's got is he's
00:21:47got a bit of street credit out in there. So, here you go there, the Philly Wild Beauty, you know,
00:21:53the extent, we're always confident stepping up to the mile there in an Atalanta would always suit
00:21:59her. It was a very good, I think she got a very good, you know, rating from over there. And so,
00:22:06therefore, you know, she appreciated the step-up in trip and she learned plenty as well. So,
00:22:12she'll head for the Philly race. There was another Colt, the Debali Colt that won the
00:22:18Tassos at Newmarket just recently. Very similar in stature, in a fashion, probably a slightly
00:22:24stronger individual to Alba. Quick ground, travels very well. I feel that he could just
00:22:32be joining Alba in the Colts, Galdens, you know, Juvenile Mile. Then Ybier, who we saw at Belmont
00:22:41now, look, he's come back. He's just one of those horses, he's got the constitution of a rhinoceros.
00:22:47I mean, he's danced every dance in England at the, you know, a good level. And it doesn't
00:22:54matter how much you serve it up to him, he just comes back wanting more. And you know,
00:22:58the horse, you know, they've had a race, but he came off looking like he was going
00:23:05back over there to have another run. He's just, yeah, he's in great order.
00:23:09We'll keep an eye on the, you know, on the turf there, a mile and a half there for him.
00:23:15He obviously got his invitation. So, we'll keep a good look on that for him.
00:23:19Just see what older horses are there. He's a horse that I hope will be around for a few years yet. So,
00:23:23I won't serve it to him too much this year, but if the conditions are right and we feel he could
00:23:28run a big race, he'd be there. And then we'd have hopefully March to the Seas there. We saw,
00:23:35just touched off in the English guineas. We sat back there after and had the whole summer off,
00:23:39we've done well. I'm very pleased with his reappearance run in the Joel Stakes.
00:23:45If the ground is sensible, we'll go to the QE2 there on Champions Day here,
00:23:51if it's decent ground, and then hopefully that will spring borders onto the Breeders' Cup mile.
00:23:56But the Breeders' Cup mile is his ultimate goal. So, if I end up having to miss Ascot
00:24:00for that, if the ground is too testing, then I'll do that and we'll head straight to the
00:24:04Breeders' Cup mile, which I think is tailor-made for him.
00:24:08Charlie, we're looking forward to the Breeders' Cup for sure, but we're also really looking
00:24:11forward to a certain big race in France this weekend. And you have two wonderful Franco
00:24:17Colts in Adéar and Hurricane Lane. Just tell us about their well-being since their last races.
00:24:23We know William Buick picked Adéar, but where do they rate in your opinion?
00:24:29I'd say two great Franco Colts with great profiles going into a race. Adéar, as we know,
00:24:38won the Derby, went on to win the King George, the first horse since Galileo to do so. I'm sure
00:24:44you're all aware of the setback. We met with a minor setback there in his preparation for a
00:24:49trial into an arc, which, yes, it was always annoying. You never want to have a setback
00:24:56at any stage of your career. But anyway, we had that setback there. He missed two gallops
00:25:01within that 10-day period. I've told myself during that point that no horse has ever actually,
00:25:09European or English horse, have won an arc trial and then gone on to win an arc. So I took that as
00:25:14a positive that someone was telling me not to go there. Subsequently, since then, he's
00:25:21not missed a beat and he couldn't afford to miss a beat either. It's because we were working back
00:25:25from that arc trial and then going on to an arc. So he looks great. William chose him because I'd
00:25:31say he's in great order. He is the Derby winner and the only time Hurricane Lane has ever been
00:25:36beaten was by Adiar. So he's the class horse in the race. Hurricane Lane, on the other hand,
00:25:44he's a rock-solid horse that's done what he's done. He's won an Irish Derby, won a Grand Prix
00:25:50de Paris and won a St Leger. But as we all know, no horse has won a St Leger and gone on to win
00:25:56an arc. So I think that was exciting, not only running in the 100th running of the arc, but also
00:26:02potentially being able to create history with Hurricane Lane there. It's something that,
00:26:10again, we don't look back on history, we try and make history, as they say. So we'll have a crack
00:26:17at it. The rain, obviously, is forecast in France, as we always know it potentially does over that
00:26:22weekend. Both cults will handle the softer conditions. But you have to say Hurricane
00:26:30Lane, it's going to enhance his chances because stamina is going to potentially come into play
00:26:36if that forecast is right and we know he handles soft ground.
00:26:41You talked about not looking back on history, trying to make history. That's a good segue to
00:26:44my last question, which is Goodolphin's been trying to win the Kentucky Derby for a long time.
00:26:49It looks like they had a great chance this year with essential quality, didn't quite work out
00:26:53with the trip. That, to me, is maybe one of the few mountains left to climb for you as well. You've
00:26:58won so many big races in such a short amount of time. Would you ever think about potentially
00:27:02trying to win the Derby or trying to win big dirt races in America? Or are you good on the
00:27:06turf side for now? I'm still learning about trying to get the right horse for the dirt.
00:27:12But no, all joking apart. We take our team over to Dubai and some of those horses have switched
00:27:20to the dirt and been getting on quite well. Obviously, Rebel's romance last year, winning
00:27:25the UA Derby, he was a horse that obviously coming into this year with essential quality
00:27:31there, we couldn't see ourselves beating a horse like that anyway. He's a fantastic three-year-old.
00:27:40Staying was going to be more our forte with that horse, the mile and a half plus races.
00:27:44But no, there's no doubt about it. It's there to be won and we're always looking to try and
00:27:51find that Derby winner, Kentucky Derby winner more importantly. It's definitely on the bucket
00:27:57list and if the right horse comes along, as I've always said, I don't want to turn up,
00:28:01come over just to have a bit of a mini holiday. We want to come over and be competitive. When
00:28:06the right horse crosses our path, we'll be there. Charlie, thank you so much for making the time.
00:28:12We know it's a really busy week for you. Congratulations on all the success and best
00:28:15of luck the rest of the year. We'll see you at the Breeders' Cup.
00:28:18Okay, guys, thanks so much for watching. I hope to see you at that one. Take care, guys.
00:28:22The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group, an accounting, tax,
00:28:26consulting, and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry. This week's Green
00:28:30Group Guest of the Week, Charlie Appleby, will receive a free one-hour tax consultation.
00:28:34Learn more at greenco.com. We'll be right back after this message from The Green Group.
00:28:40Why do the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select The Green Group as their
00:28:44tax advisor? We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
00:28:47Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green has owned and bred some of the best racehorses
00:28:52in the history of the sport. His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge, combined with
00:28:55cutting-edge tax-saving strategies, has produced positive results for his clientele and has made
00:29:00The Green Group the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the business. For a confidential
00:29:04and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:29:12The Green Group. Proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:29:42The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Spendthrift Farm. Spendthrift had an exciting
00:29:50start to the week on Monday when a modern white girl, who retired officially last week due to an
00:29:54injury occurred during training, arrived at the farm. Our own Katie Petruniak was there to see
00:29:58her and film her showing up at Spendthrift. And Ned Toffey announced that she's going to be bred
00:30:03to Into Mischief in 2022, which makes sense. And also, yesterday Spendthrift released their
00:30:08stud fees for 2022. Into Mischief is going to be a $250,000 stud fee. But I think all things
00:30:15considered, it's pretty reasonable considering what a superstar he is. And I think most of the
00:30:20fees were pretty reasonable as well. I saw Bolt Dorough was only $20,000. And that's pretty good
00:30:25considering the pop and the buzz that his yearlings have had so far this year. Let's talk about
00:30:31Jackie's Warrior earlier. It was super, super impressive in the Grade 2 Gallant Bob. He was
00:30:36almost seven lengths in front of the wire in 108.64. You don't see horses run 108 and change
00:30:41too often at parks. And he's pretty much one of the most exciting stallion prospects in the country
00:30:46right now with what he's done. And also this past weekend, Into Mischief had his 27th rising star,
00:30:52which is a huge, huge number with Overstep, who won impressively on debut for Todd Pletcher and
00:30:58Raffoli Stable at Belmont. And also Yaupon, who was a retired son of Uncle Mo. He's going to stand
00:31:04at Spendthrift in 2022 as well. This news broke late last night and it was confirmed this morning.
00:31:12The Chicago Bears are buying Arlington Park and the Arlington Park land to move theoretically
00:31:20the team from Soldier Field, which is in downtown Chicago, to Arlington Heights. They want this huge
00:31:26new sports complex as every other team wants these days and they want taxpayers to pay for it. Don't
00:31:31forget about that. Bill had a great piece on Saturday, last Saturday in the TDN about the
00:31:41end being here for Arlington. He talked to a bunch of trainers and just what they're going to do and
00:31:47how they're going to adjust and how much they're going to miss Arlington. And we've talked about
00:31:51this a lot on the show. We've lamented the closing of Arlington Park. We're far from the only ones
00:31:57doing that. In general, I think more racetracks over time need to close, but this was not one
00:32:01of them. This was a place that still got a lot of people to show up at the track and still had
00:32:06its own culture and its own place in Chicago and the activities and everything around Chicago.
00:32:12I think it was still an integral part of the community. Nevertheless, it's official now. We
00:32:18had maybe a tiny dash of hope that there was going to be a racing-centric group that was
00:32:23going to buy Arlington. Not the case now with the Bears. And before I toss it to Bill, I think about
00:32:31this in terms of the future of community institutions. And now we're losing two of them
00:32:39in Chicago in one fell swoop. We're losing Arlington Park and we're losing Soldier Field.
00:32:45Soldier Field will probably still be there. If you're unfamiliar, Soldier Field is where the
00:32:49Bears have played forever. The Bears are one of the oldest football franchises in America.
00:32:55They've played at Soldier Field since the team started in the early 1900s.
00:32:59And now, I don't even know what's going to be there. Maybe Notre Dame will play there every
00:33:03once in a while. But Chicago is going to lose the incentive to keep up Soldier Field.
00:33:11So we're really losing two institutions in one. It's unfortunate, but it's the way of the world.
00:33:16Every team wants a new stadium eventually. I remember when they tore down the old Yankee
00:33:21Stadium for no reason, just so that they could build a billion-dollar monument to
00:33:25George Steinbrenner that's five times uglier than the old Yankee Stadium.
00:33:30Bill, what are your thoughts on this? But just also on that specifically, if you can,
00:33:35what this means to lose really two iconic buildings in Chicago in one swoop?
00:33:42Yeah. Having never been to Soldier Field, I don't really have a lot to say about that.
00:33:45But to lose Arlington, well, we've been dealing with this for the last two years or so. So we
00:33:51knew it was coming. A couple of things, like you said, if there was a tiny, tiny scintilla of hope
00:33:56that maybe something would happen and a group would come in to save Arlington Park, that's kaput.
00:34:02And the interesting thing is that we don't know what the bids were, and I guess we never will.
00:34:07Did the Chicago Bears have the biggest bid? And they didn't necessarily have to, because here's
00:34:13why, Joe. This is perfect for Churchill Bounds, because they wanted to sell the track to a company
00:34:20who would guarantee its future would never include a casino. And you're not going to tear
00:34:25down the new football stadium to build a casino. But if somebody had come in and kept Arlington
00:34:31Racing, conceivably they could have had a casino somewhere down the line. But also, another thing
00:34:36that strikes me, remember, this isn't the first time this has happened. Churchill Bounds didn't
00:34:41sell Hollywood Park to the Chargers and the Rams, but they were part of the process of the end of
00:34:50Hollywood, sold it to someone else, and now that too was a football stadium. So I guess if you're
00:34:54looking to build a new football stadium, you ought to give Churchill Bounds a call. I mean, I hate to
00:34:59even say this jokingly, but if the Saints need a new stadium, is Fairgrounds available to them?
00:35:04You hate to think about those sort of things. But in some sense, the story now is how do you
00:35:11move on in Chicago Racing? And this is a story that I don't think people have been talking
00:35:16nearly enough about. I don't see how Chicago Racing could get by now to have Hawthorne run
00:35:22for three months, have three months off and have Hawthorne run again for three months.
00:35:25Where are those horses going to go during the summer? If they go to another racetrack,
00:35:29why would they come back? Where are they going to train? Chicago Racing next year is going to be a
00:35:37complete mess. And there's no obvious solutions out there how to fix it, or at least nothing's
00:35:43going to happen in the next couple of years. And I think we're going to see something really ugly
00:35:48next year with Illinois Racing. Yeah, well, that hit to Chicago Racing,
00:35:54like you said, will have a negative impact on American racing as a whole. Losing a racetrack
00:36:00in such a major city like that, with access to sporting fans, with access to people of wealth,
00:36:08not having racetrack there. I just feel like we've seen recently at Keeneland September,
00:36:14a strong domestic market of people coming in, new investors wanting to buy horses,
00:36:19wanting to be involved. Losing a major racetrack in a major metropolitan area like that is not
00:36:26a step forward at all for American racing on the whole. Yeah, well, I just wanted to read this
00:36:33quote from the Churchill CEO, Bill Karstangen. He says, this has been an extraordinarily
00:36:38competitive bid process. Congratulations to the Chicago Bears for their professionalism and
00:36:43perseverance. It is clear that they are committed to an exciting vision for their team and their
00:36:47fans. We wish them the greatest success and are excited for the opportunity this brings to the
00:36:52village of Arlington Heights and the future of economic development of this unique property.
00:36:57That struck me because just the celebratory nature of it and the fact that they don't even
00:37:02mention that there was a racetrack there. I don't know, that to me, I think is what rubs a
00:37:09lot of people the wrong way. It's not necessarily that Churchill decided to sell the property.
00:37:14They're a corporation, they need to make money for their shareholders. I think that the reason
00:37:19that people feel so betrayed by them is one, that they lobbied alongside them to get the
00:37:23casino license and then decided not to build the casino once they got it. But also just this
00:37:29complete ignoring of the history of Arlington Park and racing at Arlington Park. If you read that,
00:37:36if you read that quote and you didn't see it was from the Churchill Downs CEO, you would have
00:37:40thought it was just from some real estate developer, some random disconnected from
00:37:44racing real estate developer. I think that that is the real problem here is that, just get out
00:37:51of racing, just get out of racing entirely if you're Churchill Downs and you don't want to be
00:37:55involved with racetracks anymore because casinos are more profitable. Just kick out those properties
00:38:02from your portfolio and let people who care about racing run them. Because I get that it's a tough
00:38:08business and a racetrack is a big parcel of land and you got to spend a lot of money to maybe make
00:38:12a tiny bit of a margin. But Naira seems to be doing it okay. Stronti Group seems to be doing
00:38:17it okay because they actually have a vision for racing and for the product that built their
00:38:23companies and their corporations. And Churchill Downs just doesn't have that anymore. If they
00:38:27didn't have the Derby, honestly, I don't think they would want Churchill Downs either. And that
00:38:32to me is kind of an unsustainable thing when you have a company that owns so many key pieces to the
00:38:39racing landscape and just has professed no interest whatsoever in keeping the racing going.
00:38:47I agree with Bill that I don't know that fairgrounds is long for this world either.
00:38:52That's pretty unfortunate because like you guys say, to have these tracks and these big hubs,
00:38:57these big cities, it does help with the visibility of racing. It does help create
00:39:02new racing fans over time. And this is just another one of those cases where you kind of
00:39:07have the wolves running the henhouse. I would say that Churchill is just doing this. They're just
00:39:14inching along with the tracks as long as they can before they can sell them, before they can
00:39:19make all of this money for their shareholders. And I just wish that if that's how they feel,
00:39:24which it seems like it is, and they don't have any interest in running racetracks,
00:39:28sell them to somebody who actually cares and who actually wants to keep this work going.
00:39:32Because you're making so many enemies in this industry and you've made yourself look so bad
00:39:38and so heartless and soulless. And I guess you don't care because the stock prices are going up,
00:39:44but this is just, I believe in karma. And I think that this is terrible karma for Churchill
00:39:49and all the executives there to just completely abandon what built their company in the first
00:39:55place. The TDN Riders Room was brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock. If you think that 50 years
00:40:00combined experience in the horse business could benefit your program, give Tommy or Wendy a call.
00:40:04They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own. We mentioned last week,
00:40:08they had a 90% clearance rate at Keeneland. That's great. Great for the consignors,
00:40:12great for the sellers, great for the buyers, great for the sale. So congratulations to them.
00:40:16And we also talked about that $710,000 City of Light Colt that sold to Mayberry Farm. So
00:40:21congratulations again to Tommy and Wendy on a successful Keeneland September sale. And we'll
00:40:25be right back after this message from Legacy Bloodstock. Being a small family business,
00:40:30I guess we're part of a dying breed. We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
00:40:35We know it's a huge responsibility. We're always with your horse every step of the way when it
00:40:41comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse. Just driving up
00:40:45down the road every day. There's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the
00:40:50sport, the animal, the people that come to invest in the game. I want to see as many people enjoy
00:40:54this sport as they possibly can because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
00:41:00All right, so this is very exciting. We have a contest. We're doing a TDN Riders Room contest,
00:41:05and it's not just a three-year-old contest. We have a contest for our viewers and our listeners.
00:41:10Have you ever wanted to name a horse, but you don't have enough money to buy one yourself?
00:41:14That's a problem that I've dealt with. Throughout life, I have so many names for horses,
00:41:19and no one ever listens to me because I don't have any money to spend to buy the horse myself.
00:41:24Even John Green, I nudge him and try to give him names, and he just refuses. But John Green did
00:41:31buy a horse at Keeneland September by honor code out of Nicky New, and we're having a contest
00:41:37to name the horse. Now, we might be putting up video or photos of the horse right now on the
00:41:41catalog page. So we want all of our viewers and listeners, if they've ever had a great name for
00:41:47a horse that they have never seen before, if they have a specific name, that'll be good for this
00:41:52horse to email Sue Finley. Sue is our boss here at the TDN. SueFinley at theTDN.com with any names
00:42:00that you come up with. And then for the next three weeks, we're going to read some of the
00:42:04best names and we're going to go through them. And then in the fourth week, we're going to award
00:42:09the winner and we're going to send them all sorts of honor code and lanes and gear. And also, you
00:42:15get to see your name on the racetrack next year. So that's exciting. Maybe that horse in writer's
00:42:20room will clash at some point, and then we'll have to decide who to root for. But honor code,
00:42:26honestly, has had a tremendous year. Max Player is a huge update for him after winning the
00:42:31Grade 1 Jockey Club Gold Cup with a 102 buyer. He's arrived at Santa Anita. He's prepping for
00:42:36the Breeders' Cup Classic in Del Mar. I know Bill's a huge fan of his and we're excited to
00:42:41see what he can do. Also, Maracuja, who had an impressive win in the Grade 1 Coaching Club
00:42:46American Oaks, beating Malatha and Clarey Air in there. And Clarey Air just came back to win the
00:42:52Cotillion. We didn't mention that. And also last year, Honor AP was one of two horses and the only
00:42:57colt to be Horse of the Year Authentic when he won the Grade 1 Santa Anita Derby. Honor Code has
00:43:02five black-type winners this year and 13 black-type horses, which is a very good number.
00:43:07And he had an exciting yearling in Book 2 of the recent Team West September yearling sale.
00:43:12He sold for $430,000 to Woodford Racing and friend of the show, West Point Thoroughbred.
00:43:17So send in those names. Nothing is too raunchy. We have to get it past the Jockey Club,
00:43:24but I'll read them and I'll laugh at them if you send in something a little risqué.
00:43:29But we're looking forward to that. So like I said, if you've ever had a name that you wanted
00:43:32to see on a horse, or if you can come up with something clever for Honor Code out of Nicky New,
00:43:36send that in and we'll get you a prize at the end. And we're going to read the best names in
00:43:40the next couple of weeks. So we're very much looking forward to that and we hope you are too
00:43:44and you're excited about it. And we'll be right back after this message from Honor Code and Lane's End.
00:43:49Honor Code. A multiple Grade 1 winner from the final crop of the legendary AP Indy.
00:43:56Never off the board in 11 starts, he was crowned champion older horse before retiring.
00:44:01Now he's living up to the promise of his pedigree with progeny like Grade 1 winner Honor AP,
00:44:08Grade 3 winner Max Player, and multiple six-figure yearling sales.
00:44:13Honor Code stands to continue his sire's legacy at Lane's End.
00:44:20Owning potential future superstars like Flightline is attainable with a racing partnership with
00:44:24West Point Thoroughbreds. Partnerships enable you to spread your ownership across several horses
00:44:29for less than it costs to own one horse alone. This increases your racetrack action and your
00:44:33chances for a big horse. Learn more about why West Point Thoroughbreds is the gold standard
00:44:37in racing partnerships at westpointtb.com. And we mentioned this last week, how active
00:44:43West Point has been at all the sales, but especially last week at the Keeneland September
00:44:48sale, they purchased 25 yearlings in total through various partnerships for a total of $11.315
00:44:55million. So big buying power for West Point. And they partnered up to purchase the sales top
00:45:01three lots, including of course, the sale topping $1.7 million City of Mike Colt in partnership
00:45:07with Winford Racing and Talon Racing. And they'll now take on the Keeneland Race Meet
00:45:11with Sequist nominated for the grade one Darlie Alcibiades sticks, which is on opening day next
00:45:17Friday at Keeneland. And Strong Silent is pointing for the grade two Raven run later in the meet.
00:45:23I want to give a hat tip to my buddy, Chuck Simon. I'm pointing this out on Twitter yesterday
00:45:30because honestly, I feel like nobody would have really noticed or made us think about it.
00:45:34But Chuck is clued into these things. There was a horse yesterday at Belterra Park.
00:45:40I don't remember which race it was, it was late in the card. But it was a horse named Mox Nix,
00:45:45who is an eight year old gelding by Zanjero and was entered in a bottom level $7,500
00:45:54maiden claimer off of a near five year layoff. Now the horse had last run in October of 2016.
00:46:03And honestly made a lot of sense on paper if the horse had run a month ago, but five years ago,
00:46:09the horse was clearly had this blinking red light that there was something wrong with it.
00:46:15And lo and behold, the horse got pulled up and vanned off. And Chuck was rightfully so
00:46:20flaming the Belterra Racing Office and the people at Belterra Park, which is in Ohio,
00:46:26for even letting this horse run in the first place. I don't understand, for me,
00:46:32I don't know the rules in Ohio and the Ohio Racing Commission and all this stuff,
00:46:37what authority they have to deny entries. I assume this horse would meet the criteria.
00:46:41But also for me, the horse was owned and trained by a guy named Robert C. Bennett. And he's not
00:46:46like a nobody there. He's run 28 horses at the meet. He's running at an 11% rate. I just don't
00:46:53understand what is the incentive to run this horse? Why would you bring the horse off of a
00:46:59five-year layoff, pay the bills, work the horse out spotty all summer, and then run the horse
00:47:06just to get pulled up and vanned off and potentially euthanized? That's what I don't
00:47:10understand. You can say all you want about the racing office shouldn't have taken the entry.
00:47:14And I totally agree with that. But I just want to get in the head of an owner or trainer.
00:47:19Why even bring this horse back and put them in harm's way? It's not saying that it's easy to
00:47:26find a home for every single horse. Obviously, it's not. Horses get lost in the shuffle,
00:47:30unfortunately. But why not just try to find a home for this horse? What is the point of bringing
00:47:35back an eight-year-old gelding to run in a 7,500 maiden claimer? I just don't get it. Bill?
00:47:41Yeah. I mean, that doesn't make any sense, even from the economic standpoint. I mean,
00:47:45you were paying the bills for all these years to feed this horse and keep it in some sort,
00:47:49I assume, at some point in time in training. But Joe, I think the story here is that there
00:47:56should be a system in place in horse racing so this doesn't happen. And clearly, in Ohio,
00:48:01in Belterra, there was no such thing. I mean, why did the racing office take the entry?
00:48:07Why did the vet pass the horse and let it run? Why did the stewards do something?
00:48:12Somewhere along the line, somebody had to say, this is not okay, and we're not going to allow
00:48:17this horse to run. Whether the horse was sound or not, you just can't take these kind of chances.
00:48:24The other thing, and I know I'm speaking to the choir here, why does racing keep shooting itself
00:48:30in the foot with these things? There's plenty of problems in the sport that really are unavoidable,
00:48:36and there's no real easy solutions to them. Here's something that is so easy to get right.
00:48:42No, Mr. Bennett, you cannot run this eight-year-old horse off a five-year layoff.
00:48:47We just are not going to allow you to do it, and we encourage you to find a home for the horse.
00:48:53As I said, the racing commission, the steward, track management, the track vets, somebody
00:48:57along the chain needed to make that decision to keep this from happening,
00:49:01and the system just completely failed. It's, again, a black eye to the sport.
00:49:08Yeah, I think looking at it at face value on paper, sadly, it looked as if this individual...
00:49:16The only thing I could have been thinking is, maybe I can somehow squeeze some more
00:49:19money out of this horse. I don't see any other reason why they did this.
00:49:23But as you said, the economics really don't make a ton of sense. They had to feed this horse
00:49:28for five years. They had to put it back into training. Why not place it in one of the many
00:49:35programs that there are to rehome these horses? As you both have very rightfully pointed out,
00:49:42there's a large chain of command here. How did anyone along this chain of command
00:49:48not catch this? It's just a real, real terrible look, a real bad situation.
00:49:54And you'd think that with that chain of command in this industry, somewhere along the line,
00:50:01someone would find it and we could police ourselves. Clearly, that's once again, not the
00:50:06case. And we'll see if and when Haiza eventually gets through if they might have something to say
00:50:14that could put in policing or stop terrible, unfortunate situations like this.
00:50:20Yeah. Well, I'm glad you brought up Haiza too, because there was a report last week that there
00:50:25was yet another lawsuit to try to stop it from taking effect next year with a bunch of states,
00:50:32several of which don't even have racing. They were suing to stop this. And it was clearly a
00:50:37very well-researched suit because they kept calling it the Horse Act. And that clearly showed
00:50:44a lot of... Really, they knew what was going on and then what was being proposed here.
00:50:50This is the kind of stuff that thankfully does not get picked up by national media because
00:50:56there's no defense for this. There's actually no defense. Even with the Bob Baffert thing with the
00:51:00Medina Spirit DQ, you can say that the horse had a permitted medication that was a slight
00:51:08bit over the threshold. There's at least a defense for stuff like that. For this,
00:51:13there's absolutely no defense. And we're just, I guess, lucky in a way that it happened at this
00:51:18track that nobody cares about, that it didn't get picked up by the AP or whatever, because
00:51:23this is the kind of stuff that gets let happen at a lot of smaller tracks across the country.
00:51:28And a lot of times, it's tracks where they have casinos that really all they care about is the
00:51:35casino part of the track and the racetrack. They really could give a shit about anything that
00:51:39happens there and they just let it go by the wayside. And whatever horses run there and break
00:51:44down there, who cares? We're continuing to print money because of these slots. I think that that
00:51:49may be the case here. And someone mentioned in the comments that it's the same gaming company that
00:51:54owns Evangeline Downs, which I think has a pretty poor record of horses being lost in the shuffle
00:52:00and ending up in kill pens. This is something where you don't have the people in charge who
00:52:08really care about the horses and about the product. Now, I'm not accusing Churchill Downs of
00:52:13doing any stuff like this, but it's kind of the same symptom where you don't have people that
00:52:17were interested in the racing product running the business. And so a lot of shenanigans happen.
00:52:22And this is something that, like Bill says, is a very easy fix because there are theoretically
00:52:29supposed to be people in charge whose job it is to catch this kind of thing and to stop this
00:52:33kind of thing before the horse gets on the track and potentially breaks down. And this is, I think,
00:52:39eventually the kind of thing that trickles up in racing, where you let a lot of stuff slide
00:52:44in smaller tracks and then it gets to a bigger track and then you have a breakdown problem
00:52:48because there was negligence or there weren't people with their heart in the right place
00:52:54watching things. And this is just something that it's indefensible and it makes you feel gross,
00:53:01honestly, to be a racing advocate, which I consider us on this show. We try to take the
00:53:07positive side of things and then what can we do better? And we say that most horses are treated
00:53:13well and most trainers are doing the right things and most owners are doing the right things.
00:53:18But when you have stories like this, it's very hard to say that credibly, to look into a camera
00:53:22and say that racing does right by its horses most of the time, because there is too much of this
00:53:27stuff still going on across the country. And I appreciate Chuck pointing it out on Twitter,
00:53:32because it really does not get noticed. There are places, you know, I hate saying on tracks out,
00:53:38but I've seen stuff like this at Mountaineer Park and Charlestown and, you know, horses coming off
00:53:42of huge layoffs and not, you know, just there's never any kind of accountability for running
00:53:50horses like this that clearly should not be racing anymore. Joining the West Point Thoroughbreds
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00:54:37Bill reported on this earlier in the week, the Monmouth handle overall showed an increase for
00:54:43the meat, which is unsurprising considering there are 11 more cards than last year's COVID shortened
00:54:49meat, but average daily handle was down significantly. This was kind of a continuing
00:54:53story for us throughout the summer, and once the whip ban was instituted at Monmouth Park,
00:54:58we were trying to, you know, gauge whether or not that would affect handle. And there was actually
00:55:03some very good quotes from Bill in the story from Dennis Streisand talking about how some of the
00:55:09whales that he knows that used to bet Monmouth are betting less. I just wanted to give you the
00:55:14numbers real quick before I toss it to him. Last year, they had 44 cards, and the average
00:55:19handle last year was a little over $3.8 million a day. This year, it was a 55-day meat, and the
00:55:26average daily handle was $3.15 million, so it was a decline of a little over 17%, which is
00:55:32significant for sure. Dennis Streisand also tried to blame the weather a little bit, and he
00:55:38I don't know that you can really blame the weather when Saratoga's blowing handle records out of the
00:55:43water, and they pretty much had similar weather to Monmouth over the summer. I think it's hard
00:55:49to say. I think it's hard to draw definite conclusions that this was because of the whip
00:55:53ban. I think overall, the Monmouth product has been sliding over the last 10 years or so,
00:55:59but I wonder what Bill's takeaways were. Well, you know, was it so they're down 17%,
00:56:04and that's a big whack. It really is. Is it because of the whips? I guess. I think it's
00:56:10fair to say that the whip ban did have something to do with that, which is unfortunate. But a lot
00:56:15of gamblers warned the New Jersey Racing Commission, we're not going to bet on this
00:56:19stuff because of the unknown factor. One other thing too, and Dennis went to the old playbook,
00:56:26when the handle's down, always blame the weather. It doesn't matter. But I think one other factor in
00:56:31this that is overlooked is that you talk about Saratoga, and Joe, Saratoga, Delmar, Keeneland,
00:56:38et cetera, the real premier meets, the handle's going through the roof. And yet, overall handle
00:56:44in the sport is not increasing. So what's happening is they're taking handle away from
00:56:50other racetracks. So I'd be curious if racetracks kind of comparable to Monmouth, like maybe
00:56:54Maryland, places like that, if they're also down in that same sort of neighborhood, 15%,
00:57:0016%. But I'm kind of getting off track here. Look, I've said on the show at least a dozen
00:57:04times or so that I am in favor of the whip ban for reasons I don't need to continue to beat that.
00:57:12But if you want to say that the gamblers are not comfortable with this and are betting less money,
00:57:19I think this is evidence that that's correct.
00:57:22And I think it's just, we focus so much on the whips and whether or not the whip should be
00:57:30allowed. I think it's just one of those things where when you have an already deteriorating
00:57:34betting product that you then introduce another variable to, I think that's a recipe for disaster.
00:57:41And I think that that's the case at Monmouth. You talk about Keeneland, Saratoga, and Delmar
00:57:46handle being great. Kentucky Downs handle, it was obviously terrific. I think, you know,
00:57:53you guys know my feelings. I think that they should have whips. I think that it should be
00:57:58humanely restricted and regulated to the best of our ability, but I don't think you should
00:58:03take them away entirely. I think a lot of it though is the betting product at Monmouth.
00:58:10I think that handle was going to be down no matter what this year, especially going up
00:58:14against Saratoga with the return of fans there. I think Saratoga took all the spotlight this
00:58:19summer. I think handle was going to be down no matter what. I think that this was just
00:58:22another wrinkle that horse players did not want to deal with at a track where you really just,
00:58:29a lot of times you have a parade of three to five favorites winning and short fields
00:58:33and a lot of trainers you don't trust that they're doing right by the horses.
00:58:37I just, I think Monmouth has a lot of problems to clean up and I think that they were kind of
00:58:42put in a tough position here with the whip band. They were kind of the guinea pig for this
00:58:46experiment. Obviously it didn't go well, but I think that, you know, that's, I don't know that
00:58:51you can blame the weather and the whip band entirely for the way that Monmouth handle is
00:58:56trending. I think that there are a lot of things that Monmouth needs to clean up if it's going to
00:59:00be a viable racetrack in the future. And, you know, Dennis Raisin mentioned in the story that
00:59:06he thinks that, you know, when Heise takes effect, that effect, if Heise takes effect,
00:59:11that there's going to be more uniform whip rules and they're not going to stand out as much
00:59:15in terms of restrictions. So I kind of get that argument and we'll see what's proposed
00:59:22for Heise in terms of whips. But I think overall Monmouth needs to kind of get its act together
00:59:28in terms of getting cheaters out of there and just, you know, creating a much more attractive
00:59:33betting product because it's kind of been the wild west for a while. And it does not, you know,
00:59:39even beyond like the moral conundrum and the moral hesitancy you might have betting a track
00:59:46where you feel like there are a lot of cheaters flourishing. You know, I think practically it
00:59:51makes it a poor betting proposition too, because you have these giant favorites and these short
00:59:57fields and it's just, you got to give me a reason. You got to give me a reason to bet your racetrack.
01:00:01I talked about it last week with Parks. They had a great card, but I just can't support it because
01:00:06of the high takeout. And I think horse players in general are becoming more sophisticated and
01:00:10they're becoming more selective in what they play. And Monmouth is just not doing enough
01:00:16to become an attractive destination for horse players money. And it's not just the whip ban,
01:00:21although I, you know, I'm not going to pat myself on the back, but I did say that this was going to
01:00:25negatively affect handle and in a way that it didn't at Woodbine because you still did have
01:00:32the crops, you know, and in certain situations. So, you know, we'll see going forward. We like,
01:00:37we like Monmouth. We like going there. It's the home track for a lot of people and this
01:00:42company, and we don't want to see it go away, but it's trending in the wrong direction. And there's
01:00:47a lot that needs to turn around and you can't just blame it on the whips and the weather.
01:00:51All right. So this is a massive, massive weekend of racing on both sides of the Atlantic ocean.
01:00:57I'm glad Kelsey is here so she can fill us in on what to watch for on ARC day.
01:01:04But I want to, I want to start with the American side of it. We, you know, Friday is opening day
01:01:08at Santa Anita and it's, you know, they get right into it with four stakes. You think you have three
01:01:15breeders cut when you're, you're in races, they have the grade one American pharaoh for two-year-olds,
01:01:19the grade two chandelier for two-year-old fillies. Also have the Eddie D stakes and the speakeasy,
01:01:24which is for two-year-old turf sprinters. Got a big day at Belmont on Saturday as well.
01:01:29You've got the grade one champagne, which is also a breeder's cup when you're in the woodward,
01:01:34which is now back at Belmont, the miss Grillo, the Belmont turf sprint invitational,
01:01:38a couple of graded stakes at Churchill as well. And then on Saturday at Santa Anita,
01:01:42there's the awesome again, which is great one for older horses going a mile on an eighth.
01:01:47They also have the Rodeo drive, which is a great one for fillies and mayors going a mile and a
01:01:51quarter on the turf, the Santa Anita sprint championship, which used to be the ancient title,
01:01:55the John Henry turf championship and the city of hope mile. Ton of action on Saturday at Santa
01:02:01Anita and Belmont and then Belmont and Santa Anita keep it going on Sunday. Belmont has the
01:02:06Frazette stakes, grade one for two-year-old fillies, a breeder's cup challenge race.
01:02:10Also the basic Tipton Wya stakes, which used to be run at Saratoga. It's now 11 furlongs at Belmont
01:02:16on the turf. You also have the Pilgrim for two-year-old, two-year-old Colts going a mile
01:02:21on a 16th on the turf. And then the Zenyatta stakes, which is a great two winning year end
01:02:26for older fillies and mayors on the dirt at Santa Anita as well. So there's a ton of action, a ton
01:02:30of breeder's cup tickets are going to be punched this weekend, a lot to be excited about, and
01:02:35that'll lead into next weekend, which is Keeneland opening weekend. And we're stoked for that.
01:02:40So yeah, pick your fancy over the weekend. You've got a lot of stuff to look forward to,
01:02:45a lot of stuff to bet. It's going to be a lot of big fields, I think a lot of big names racing,
01:02:49but also this weekend is ARC weekend. I'm glad Kelsey's here so I don't have to fumble my way
01:02:54through it, pretending that I know about all the ARC horses and all the other hard races.
01:02:58So I'll toss it over to Kelsey now. Let's hear what you're looking forward to the most and
01:03:03let's give you a little pick for the ARC, who you like the best.
01:03:06Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. We've got the pre-delected Triomphe in Paris, France. It's
01:03:12my favorite race every single year. And it's over a mile and a half, Europe's championship,
01:03:18middle distance race. Every year, all the best horses in the division show up. It never disappoints.
01:03:24And that's the case, again, this year. At this stage, we have 16 horses entered still with the
01:03:33final forfeit stage and the draw to be tomorrow morning. So we'll have our final field at that
01:03:38stage. And Charlie Appleby was on with us earlier, and he told us about his two contenders,
01:03:45Adair and Hurricane Lane. And they are among the two favorites of the race. Adair's favorite moment,
01:03:52Hurricane Lane, is third choice. And they're both three-year-old colts by Frankel, who bring just
01:03:58fantastic seasons into the race. Adair won the Derby and the King George. And he is the first
01:04:06colt actually since Galileo 20 years ago to put that double together. So he just has impeccable
01:04:13credentials. And Hurricane Lane won the Irish Derby, the Grand Prix de Paris over this course
01:04:20in distance. So that's a great tick for him. And he also won the St. Leger a few weeks ago. So
01:04:27I mean, it's just hard to pick a hole in either of those horses form. So it's going to be
01:04:33fascinating. A horse that's catching a lot of attention in the betting is Tarnawa, who the
01:04:39American audience will be familiar with. She came over and won the Breeders' Cup Turf last year.
01:04:44She's won two group ones over the ARC course in distance. And she was a very good second last out
01:04:51to the coach-operated horse in the world, St. Mark's Basilica, last out in the Irish Champion
01:04:57States. And really the top form in Europe this year for that sort of middle distance goes through
01:05:05St. Mark's Basilica. He was retired this week. He was never actually really appointed to the ARC
01:05:10because they've always seen him as more of a mile and a quarter horse. So Tarnawa comes here
01:05:17representing that form. We have Snowfall, who has been the top three-year-old filly in Europe this
01:05:25year. I mean, it was just an incredible winner of the Oaks, the Irish Oaks, and the Yorkshire Oaks.
01:05:32It's interesting. She was beaten, very surprisingly, in her prep in the Prix Vermeil over
01:05:39the course of distance a few weeks ago. So it's not ideal to be going into this race off a loss.
01:05:46But if you want to gamble on her back form, she's going to give you much better odds now.
01:05:54We have Chronogenesis, who's a mare from Japan. And Japan's always a fascinating story surrounding
01:06:02the ARC because they want to win this race so badly. They've never won it. They've come close
01:06:08numerous times. This mare really brings top credentials into the race. She could be,
01:06:14I would say she definitely is one of the better Japanese horses that have come over for the race.
01:06:20So she really has a shot. We are looking at, you know, the weather is always something that
01:06:27you're looking closely at with this race. And unfortunately, over the last, well, unfortunately
01:06:32for some, over the last few days, the chances of rain this weekend have increased in Paris.
01:06:38And it's looking like it is going to be fairly wet weather. It won't be a bog, I wouldn't say
01:06:43like it was last year, but it will be on the softer side. That would probably play against
01:06:49horses like Snowfall and Chronogenesis might play in the favor of horses like Tarnawa and
01:06:56Hurricane Lane. But to throw a bit of a long shot out there as well, I kind of like a horse called
01:07:04Alan Kerr, who is a three-year-old colt. He actually beat Adair in a derby prep earlier
01:07:11this season. Now I think Adair has taken huge leaps forward since then. So I'm not saying
01:07:16Alan Kerr is better than him. However, Alan Kerr has also, you know, continued to improve
01:07:21with each race throughout summer. He's been placed in some of the top middle distance races.
01:07:27He was second in the Juddmont International behind Mishra. So he's won. He's at 25 to one
01:07:34right now. He's one that I would take a little gamble on. We appreciate that insight and to
01:07:39throw in a little long shot in there as well. John's usually too cowardly to pick any long
01:07:43shots. So we appreciate that and all of the insight. We're really looking forward to it.
01:07:47Sunday morning, do you know the exact post time? I can find out.
01:07:53It's usually, I feel like it's usually around 1030 or a time.
01:07:56It's 10.05 a.m. Eastern time. Cool. All right. Sweet. Appreciate that. Kelsey,
01:08:02yeah, yeah. So, you know, whatever you're into this weekend, European racing, American racing,
01:08:07lots to look forward to and a lot, you know, I think this is the big weekend where the Breeders'
01:08:12Cup fields really start to take shape in people's minds. And we kind of get a sense
01:08:17of what we're going to look at in the Breeders' Cup. It's obviously going to be a tremendous
01:08:21weekend of racing no matter what. But I think a lot rests on what happens this weekend and next.
01:08:26And we're looking forward to all of it. All right. So that's going to do it for this week's
01:08:30edition of the TDN Writers' Room presented by Keeneland. Remember the Keeneland Fall Meet
01:08:34starts next Friday with Fall Stars Weekend. Going to be a tremendous, tremendous meet.
01:08:38And obviously the Keeneland September sale wrapped up last week with great results.
01:08:41Congratulations to everybody at Keeneland for getting through that. And, you know,
01:08:45it was it was great to watch and it was great to see, you know, the vibrancy back at Keeneland
01:08:50September after last year and then the COVID situation. So congratulations to all y'all.
01:08:54Looking forward to the Keeneland Fall Meet. I want to thank Bill Finley, Kelsey Riley,
01:08:58our Green Group Guest of the Week, Charlie Appleby, our producer, Patty Wolfe, our associate
01:09:02producer, Katie Petruniak, and our editors, Anthony Larocca, Aliyah Larocca, Nathan Wilkinson.
01:09:06Don't forget to send in those names for the honor code, Nicky New Progeny for John Green.
01:09:12We look forward to all those names and then be as creative and as, like I said,
01:09:16as raunchy as possible. Might not get past the Jockey Club, but we want to see everything
01:09:20that's in our listeners' and viewers' brains. You can email them to suefinleyatthetdn.com.
01:09:26Thank you so much, everyone, for watching. We'll see you next week.