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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning.
00:00:25It's 918 Wednesday, May 25th.
00:00:28This is the TDN Writers' Room presented by Keeneland.
00:00:30My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:31I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News and Episode 3 of my show, Better
00:00:36Things with Joe Bianca is out right now.
00:00:38Go check it out.
00:00:39Good morning.
00:00:40I'm Bill Filmi, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:42This weekend, it wasn't just the Preakness.
00:00:44Foner Park wrapped up its 2022 meet and it was a rousing meet, successful by all parameters.
00:00:50Next year, a casino is going to be there.
00:00:52So will people want to run at Oaklawn or Foner?
00:00:54Going to be a tough call.
00:00:56Stay tuned for Foner, bigger and better things coming from our favorite little track.
00:01:02Jonathan Green, General Manager of DJ Stable.
00:01:08Sorry, guys, I just wanted to see what it was like to have unnatural and unnecessary
00:01:14delays between important events.
00:01:17Oh, good one.
00:01:19Bill, we got to plan that trip to Foner Park for the show.
00:01:23There you go.
00:01:25John can't come.
00:01:27Yay!
00:01:28I mean, oh, darn.
00:01:31Great.
00:01:32Now we're going to get more hate mail from the Foner Park.
00:01:36Add it to the pile.
00:01:37Add it to the pile.
00:01:38Sorry.
00:01:39The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland, home of the World's Yearling Sale.
00:01:43Make plans to attend the Keeneland September Yearling Sale beginning Monday, September
00:01:4612th.
00:01:47You can learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:01:50All right, so after much discussion, the Preakness Stakes was held within two weeks
00:01:56of the Derby this Saturday, despite all of the consternation about running those horses
00:02:00back so darn quickly.
00:02:03Early voting won and looked pretty damn good, got a 105 buyer, which is the highest speed
00:02:07figure by any three-year-old so far this year.
00:02:10But the second, third, and fourth finishers, as I pointed out on Twitter, all ran two weeks
00:02:14ago.
00:02:15So I think it's all good still to run horses back pretty quickly.
00:02:18I guess that's quickly these days.
00:02:20But anyway, it was a great ride by Jose Ortiz.
00:02:22We talked to Chad Brown yesterday.
00:02:23We're going to talk to him later on the show about what a big win that was for him and
00:02:28Klaravich and all the connections, but I thought it was a great ride by Jose Ortiz.
00:02:32I thought once he was able to switch off and track Armagnac and let Armagnac go, that race
00:02:38was pretty much over.
00:02:39And I thought Epicenter ran the best race of anybody, being squeezed back and having
00:02:43to close into that slow pace.
00:02:46Secret Oath kind of flattened out after that big wide move.
00:02:48It didn't work as well as it did in the Kentucky Oaks, which makes me think maybe we're overestimated
00:02:53manning these three-year-old fillies a little bit.
00:02:55Those are my initial takeaways.
00:02:56What'd you guys think?
00:02:57Yeah, Joe, you nailed most of the salient points in this.
00:03:00The race was decided to me early on in the running when the key moment was when Epicenter
00:03:07had to steady.
00:03:08Just, I mean, not a ton, but just in the early going in the first furlong, he got squeezed
00:03:13back a little bit and he wound up eighth in the field of nine at that point.
00:03:18And here's a horse with tactical speed.
00:03:20I thought he'd probably be third behind Early Voting and Armagnac in the early going.
00:03:26Now when the fractions came up, 24-1, 47-2, you knew he was in trouble.
00:03:31He ran again.
00:03:32He's an unlucky horse.
00:03:33You know, in some respects, he might have won both legs of the Triple Crown, if wins
00:03:38the Derby, if Rich Strike doesn't run the crazy good race that nobody expected.
00:03:42And I think probably would have won the Preakness if he got a better trip, but take nothing
00:03:46away from Early Voting, you know, and then, right, a very good ride by Jose Ortiz.
00:03:52You know, the pace worked out perfectly for him.
00:03:55He was second track in a horse, Armagnac, who was, you know, logically was not going
00:03:59to win the race, took over and won the race there.
00:04:02It's also, you know, you got to give Chad Brown credit too.
00:04:05You know, we don't like to see horses, you know, we'll talk more about this, skip any
00:04:08legs of the Triple Crown, but he's got this thing figured out with winning the Preakness
00:04:13now coming out of the Wood Memorial.
00:04:15And I think you realize what he did was Early Voting was not going to win the Kentucky Derby
00:04:19and especially with the way the race developed on the racetrack.
00:04:24And you know, Chad realized that and he went for kind of the B target there.
00:04:29But nonetheless, you know, this horse now is a classic winner, a grade one winner, a
00:04:33winner of a Triple Crown race, extremely well bred himself, you know, in the in this day
00:04:38and age where it's all about making a stallion.
00:04:41He's made a stallion out of this horse and presumably a very valuable one, no matter
00:04:45what he does after that.
00:04:48So, you know, I think you're right about the filly.
00:04:51She's really, really good.
00:04:53But you know, it takes a Rachel Alexandra to pull this off.
00:04:58And she's not Rachel Alexandra, you know, which is no knock on her.
00:05:00She's a tremendous filly.
00:05:02I've got a lot to say about, you know, horses all passing the Belmont.
00:05:05Maybe we'll save that for later.
00:05:07The other thing, too, did you guys notice this is the most strangely bet race in the
00:05:14history of horse racing?
00:05:17Happy Jack was 11 to one Fenwick, 50 to one in the morning line, went off at 13 to one.
00:05:25Those horses ran last and next to last.
00:05:27Fenwick was beaten 40 and one half lengths.
00:05:30I was scratching my who that hell was betting on these horses.
00:05:35And we're not talking about the six race at Finger Lakes, where you bet 200 to win
00:05:39on a horse.
00:05:40You affect the odds.
00:05:41I asked me hundreds of thousands of dollars betting it.
00:05:43You know, it's just kind of a side story from the preakness.
00:05:46But, you know, it was fascinating to me to watch how they bet this race.
00:05:50You know, maybe it's after a rich strike.
00:05:52You know, the kind of the amateurs were looking, oh, I got to get another 50 to one shot bet
00:05:56on Fenwick because he's 50 to one in the morning line, realizing it's not going to be as odd.
00:06:00So that was kind of interesting.
00:06:02And, you know, it is what it is.
00:06:04Was it the best break?
00:06:05I don't know.
00:06:06I don't ever know.
00:06:07But, you know, you make a great point, Joe, that, you know, on these horses that ran back
00:06:10in two weeks, melted down and disintegrated into the scratch.
00:06:13They'll move on and go from here.
00:06:16And we move on to the Balmont Stakes.
00:06:19You know, Bill, you bring up an interesting point.
00:06:21I remember, you know, when Duke won the NCAA tournament last time, last time Duke won the
00:06:27NCAA tournament, I should say, in basketball and the admissions department announced that
00:06:33the amount of applications were up 40 percent.
00:06:36And amongst college admissions, they started calling that the Duke effect, you know, because
00:06:40everyone wants to associate themselves with a winner and they don't want to miss out next
00:06:43time.
00:06:44And I think the same thing happened with regard to the odds of the Preakness.
00:06:47You can honestly call that the rich strike effect because nobody wanted to be on the
00:06:51outside looking in on another 80 to one shot.
00:06:55And Fenwick deserved to be 50 to one, if not more, you know, in the in the odds.
00:07:00But the fact that there was a classic race and the longest shot on the board was 18 to
00:07:05one.
00:07:06I don't remember the last time that happening, especially because that horse in particular,
00:07:09Fenwick, didn't even belong in the race.
00:07:12That being said, you know, you guys touched on all the major points as far as early voting,
00:07:17you know, ran a phenomenal race.
00:07:18Chad Brown really knows what he's doing now as far as getting horses peaked and ready,
00:07:23you know, for for the Preakness and for some of these big races.
00:07:26So he's not just a turf trainer anymore.
00:07:27You can't just say that now.
00:07:28He's actually got tremendous success, you know, at all levels and all distances and
00:07:33now all surfaces.
00:07:34So, you know, I'm really looking forward to to having chat on the on the show later on.
00:07:39One of five buyer was really impressive.
00:07:42And I think we kind of glossed over that and it really shouldn't be because that was the
00:07:45Joe, as you mentioned, that was the best buyer number for a three year old this year.
00:07:49And that's saying something because there's a lot of good three year old cults.
00:07:52The only thing I'll disagree with with with John Joe is that, you know, for Secret Oath,
00:07:55I know you said, hey, maybe the Phillies aren't as good.
00:08:00And yeah, when a Philly runs against the boys like Bill said, you know, they have to be
00:08:04winning colors.
00:08:05Rachel Alexandra, you know, Serena Song, they have to be just, you know, just freaks.
00:08:11You know, she would have been six to five in this year's Black Eyed Susan.
00:08:15And really all the top Phillies, I think we can all agree, all the top Phillies ran in
00:08:18the Kentucky Oaks and none of them came back for the, you know, for the Black Eyed Susan.
00:08:24So, yeah, I mean, I still consider Secret Oath and Nest and, you know, as two of the
00:08:29top Phillies in that division.
00:08:30And again, no offense to Interstate Daydream, but I think she's got a lot to do before she
00:08:37gets to that operation lot of three year old Phillies.
00:08:39Well, I think it's going to be interesting in the Acorn because it sounds like Secret
00:08:43Oath is going to get some time off now and is going to point towards Saratoga and Nest
00:08:47might go to the Belmont, you know, as Mike Rapoli broke on our show a couple of weeks
00:08:51ago.
00:08:52But Echo Zulu is going to be like two to five, I think, in the Acorn because that mile hits
00:08:57her right between the eyes.
00:08:58Yeah, I mean, Secret Oath had no chance with that trip.
00:09:01I just I was expecting a little bit more run in the stretch than she gave.
00:09:04You know, she was kind of one pace through the lane before ending up fourth.
00:09:07So it was a mildly disappointing her.
00:09:10And yes, it was a very strangely bet race.
00:09:12The happy jack thing I get, because if you name no, because if you name a horse like
00:09:17after a common name, they're going to, especially, you know, in those those casual fan scenarios
00:09:23like if Saratoga, if you name a horse like Mike or, you know, something like that, they're
00:09:28going to get bet no matter what.
00:09:30So that adds value.
00:09:31But I think the Fenwick thing, I think you guys are right that everybody was just looking
00:09:35for that next 80 to one shot, forgetting that it's a nine horse field and you're not going
00:09:39to get an 80 to one shot in a nine horse field pretty much no matter what, especially in
00:09:43a race like the Preakness.
00:09:45The other story is Gunrunner.
00:09:47And how quickly did Gunrunner get his first classic winner?
00:09:51If you look at his stats so far this year, he has like, I think like something like 16
00:09:57black type three year olds already this year, which is an unbelievable number, especially
00:10:02for a stallion with his first crop.
00:10:04And yeah, it didn't take him long to get that classic winner.
00:10:06Obviously, his value is going to go up even more now.
00:10:09And, you know, early voting can can start already to establish a legacy of a sire of
00:10:15sires in a year or two for Gunrunner.
00:10:17So, you know, it was it wasn't the most exciting race, but, you know, I applaud the people
00:10:23who showed up after running in the Derby and running in the Oaks two weeks ago, because
00:10:27we're going to talk about that a little bit.
00:10:29You know, the Belmont's not going to be anything special right now.
00:10:32But, you know, Teresa Gennaro made this point on Twitter that maybe it'll just be people
00:10:36who actually want to go to the track, actually like the racing that'll be at Belmont.
00:10:40I know I'll be there. I know a bunch of other people in New York will be there.
00:10:42But yeah, there's no going to be no cachet, no big like exciting marquee names, but
00:10:48whatever. It's going to be a great day of racing and we're going to enjoy it.
00:10:51Hopefully the weather cooperates.
00:10:53So, yeah, I don't know how much how much more we're going to talk about the Triple Crown
00:10:56after talking about the Derby for four months before it happened.
00:10:58Now that the excitement's kind of fizzled out.
00:11:01But yeah, we'll talk a little bit more in broad macro terms about the Triple Crown a
00:11:05little bit. Yeah. And Joe, just to jump in also about Gunrunner, because I have the same
00:11:09note. I mean, you had a Preakness winner and Radio Days ran third in the Black Eyed
00:11:13Susan, a really sneaky, good race.
00:11:15I think I don't know how much we're going to get into the Black Eyed Susan, but, you
00:11:18know, Shug McGehee did a really nice job getting that filly to peak, that daughter of
00:11:23Gunrunner to peak in the Black Eyed Susan.
00:11:25I think that she's going to be a filly that's going to be, you know, we're going to be
00:11:28hearing things from later on in the year as well.
00:11:31None is the answer. None is the answer how much we're going to talk about the Black
00:11:35Eyed Susan. I second that.
00:11:36And we have a word John said, none, none of the undercard stuff.
00:11:40We have a bigger race to talk about in just a minute.
00:11:43What a tease. The CDN Writers Room is brought to you, as always, by Keeneland,
00:11:48Claravage Stable's Early Voting.
00:11:50We just talked about the Preakness winner was a $200,000 Keeneland September purchase.
00:11:54He led a sweep of Keeneland sales grads in the Preakness stakes.
00:11:58Seven of the nine Preakness contenders, including runner up Epicenter and third place
00:12:02finisher Creative Minister, are graduates of the Keeneland sales.
00:12:05Also, grade two Black Eyed Susan stakes winner Interstate Daydream was a $105,000
00:12:10purchase at the 2020 Keeneland January sale.
00:12:13So Keeneland grads all over the map this weekend, winning big races, running great as
00:12:17they always do. And forget about that Keeneland September sale starting Monday,
00:12:21September 12th. Be right back to this message from Keeneland.
00:12:32Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Keeneland September Yearly Sale.
00:12:40A terrific maternal pedigree, grade one winners and champions across the bay.
00:12:51Go to the back. Good luck.
00:12:56Spicetown.
00:12:59Money.
00:13:03Echotown.
00:13:06It's Echotown for Joe Palomo and Echotown breaks the wave.
00:13:11And Echotown is drawing away in the stretch.
00:13:14Echotown wins the Alan Turkin stakes.
00:13:16A sire line so prolific it repeats itself.
00:13:21Echotown.
00:13:26The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:13:28Triple crown winner Justify.
00:13:30You may have heard of him, had his first winner on Sunday at Santa Anita.
00:13:34Trained by Doug O'Neill.
00:13:35Tahoma broke his maiden on debut by two legs.
00:13:38He looks a lot like dad.
00:13:40You should go check out a picture.
00:13:41I tweeted out a picture of him and a picture of me when I went to visit Justify at Ashford.
00:13:46I think he's going to stamp those horses pretty obviously.
00:13:49So it's great to see a triple crown winner's first foals on the track.
00:13:53It was really exciting what happened with American Pharoah.
00:13:56It's just as exciting now with Justify.
00:13:57So we're looking forward to seeing the rest of his foals start to race through the rest of the spring and the summer.
00:14:02And on Saturday, Classic Empire got a six stakes winner from his first crowd.
00:14:06Or Friday, rather, with a grade two winner.
00:14:09Blackhead Susan winner Interstate Daydream.
00:14:11So Classic Empire, I think, is on the rise as well.
00:14:13Currently sitting at 12 percent stakes performers to runners strike rate.
00:14:17If you look at those at his crop, he's up there.
00:14:20He's up there in the top five now with Cupid.
00:14:23Another young Ashford sire, Caravaggio, had a big weekend overseas.
00:14:26His son, Maljum, took the group two German 2000 guineas.
00:14:30And another son, Circuit Nine, won in his second straight start in Hong Kong.
00:14:34So Caravaggio, another awesome sire, another up and coming sire at Ashford.
00:14:39And can't wait to see more of his horses as well.
00:14:41He's stamping them, too, with those beautiful greys.
00:14:44So shout out to everybody at Coolmore and Ashford.
00:14:47Things are really looking up, as always.
00:14:49And yesterday, we talked to champion trainer Chad Brown.
00:14:51So that was an exciting interview.
00:14:53Great to talk to him about a variety of issues.
00:14:56Chad, obviously coming off the big win in the Preakness with early voting.
00:14:59And it ended up working out for him.
00:15:01You know, it's interesting.
00:15:02He said, you know, for early voting, a neck difference in the Wooden Memorial.
00:15:05He might have been too pressured to run him in the derby.
00:15:07Ended up passing in the derby and running in the Preakness.
00:15:10Definitely worked out.
00:15:11He's got a stable full of loaded three year olds and turf fillies and mares.
00:15:14So check out our interview with Chad.
00:15:17The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting,
00:15:20tax, consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:15:24With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven
00:15:26strategies to save you taxes.
00:15:28Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:15:32So we are thrilled this week to bring on a man who needs no introduction,
00:15:35but I'm the host, so I'll introduce him anyway.
00:15:37Four time Eclipse Award winner and now two time classic winner, Chad Brown.
00:15:41Thanks for coming on.
00:15:42Thanks for having me.
00:15:43Great to talk to you as always.
00:15:44So first of all, congratulations on the win on Saturday with early voting.
00:15:48Now, I think you clearly did the right thing with this horse.
00:15:51He didn't debut until December 18th.
00:15:52He had only raced three times, but I'm sure he was tempting to run him in the derby.
00:15:56So this is kind of a two-part question.
00:15:57A, how close did you come to running him in the derby?
00:16:00And B, if he had won the wood, would the calculus have been a little bit different?
00:16:05Yeah, that's a good question.
00:16:06He was really 50-50 around the derby.
00:16:08I know we, we strung it along a little bit to see how, how the field was shaping up.
00:16:12And it seemed like we were dead set on the preakness, but you know, right up
00:16:16until, um, his last workout, um, when I would have really had to ship him to
00:16:21give us the best chance to run well in the derby, we were still, you know,
00:16:27probably 40% chance we'd, we'd go to the derby.
00:16:30And then, um, it just became more, more clear to us that the race really wasn't
00:16:35going to shape up the right way for him.
00:16:36We didn't think no one could have anticipated quite that pace, but it
00:16:40certainly looked like there was going to be a strong pace and, um, although we
00:16:45have a lot of confidence rating the horse, like you saw in the preakness
00:16:49having no experience doing it yet.
00:16:51It's different to rate off one horse, right.
00:16:53Instead of, you know, not rate off potentially five or six and not
00:16:57even knowing what post you'll have.
00:16:58So that was, um, that, that was really, um, the final decision.
00:17:04And, um, yeah, he had won the wood.
00:17:06It's almost impossible to sit the derby out.
00:17:09So, you know, that would have, that would certainly change things.
00:17:13Yeah.
00:17:13Uh, congratulations as well.
00:17:15Um, you have a nice problem to have now, uh, going forward,
00:17:18to the second half of the season, so to speak of the Travers Haskell, et cetera.
00:17:23You've got this horse early voting, you've got Zanden and
00:17:26you also have Jack Christopher.
00:17:28Um, I know it's a long way away, but have you given any thought to kind
00:17:31of what the plan of attack is going to be with these three and perhaps how
00:17:35you might try to keep them separate?
00:17:38Um, yeah, it is a nice, uh, a nice situation to be in.
00:17:43Um, you know, it's just keep the, keep these horses healthy.
00:17:46Um, moving forward, that's really the key.
00:17:48And, um, and these things don't really work each other out.
00:17:51You know, certainly we've, we've been through this before with
00:17:54horses in different divisions.
00:17:55I think I have to run against each other at some point.
00:17:57There's only so many prestigious races.
00:17:59And if, if individual horses belong and I'm, I'm going to
00:18:03put them in against each other.
00:18:04So, um, but right now, thankfully all of them either came out of their, their
00:18:08last races indoor workouts, you know, good shape, you know, I thought a
00:18:13big part of the wind was Jose Ortiz.
00:18:15I thought it was a great ride.
00:18:16He was able to switch them off early.
00:18:17Part of that is a really good training job, but part of that is Jose
00:18:20being able to do that with horses.
00:18:22He was really emotional after the win.
00:18:23I was great to see, you know, he's, he seems like he's a very authentic guy.
00:18:27Can you just talk a little bit about Jose's ride and kind of what he's
00:18:30meant to your success over the years?
00:18:32Yeah, well, terrific ride.
00:18:34He's, he's really, um, has great chemistry with the source.
00:18:37He's worked them a couple of times for us, you know, a few times for us actually.
00:18:41And that's not really my ML.
00:18:43I do use jockeys in the morning.
00:18:44Occasionally, mostly in gateworks and turf works.
00:18:48Um, I really, really tough exercise riders, really in all my divisions, I'm
00:18:52lucky and, um, we like to control the works a little bit more with the, with
00:18:56the writers that know him, but I do use jockeys that this was, um, where we
00:19:01thought it'd be beneficial for him to work with them a little bit more just
00:19:04to, um, be a rating the horse and such.
00:19:07And he really did a great job, not only in the afternoon, but in
00:19:11the mornings with the horse.
00:19:12And I think they gave him a lot of confidence to, uh, to not be worried
00:19:16when another horse went, went out to the lead.
00:19:19And, um, it is, I think, uh, part of the emotion I, I would say not speaking
00:19:25for Jose is, you know, we, we talked about this race a couple of times, the
00:19:28prickness about, you know, with good magic, that was the worst that we
00:19:31thought could win, win the prickness.
00:19:33And, um, I think things just didn't work out the way Jose had hoped with the trip.
00:19:38And it was a tough race to ride.
00:19:40And remember it was so foggy, uh, really difficult trade conditions.
00:19:46And, um, with the post draw, I was drawn just inside justify.
00:19:50We thought just by my people are vulnerable in that race, having nurse
00:19:54being nursed along with a quarter crack and such, uh, knowing justifies
00:19:57a, you know, outstanding horse in clearly the best course of that crop.
00:20:03Uh, but we thought if it was one race to, to beat them there, Jose really
00:20:07wanted to do over on that race.
00:20:09And so did I.
00:20:09And, uh, he just felt like he, you know, he can use good judgment there in the
00:20:14first term going right to the rail and got, you know, really bullied by, but
00:20:18just to follow the way around that really wasn't our plan can certainly
00:20:22see why it happened with the conditions, hard, hard race to ride.
00:20:25So he has mentioned it to me more than one time.
00:20:27You know, we need, when that prickness, you know, and I would tell him the
00:20:29same thing, you know, we talked about it before the race, how, you know, he
00:20:34was due here and, uh, now is the chance to ride a similar horse.
00:20:41Um, that's going to be forwardly placed with some decisions
00:20:44to make in that first turn.
00:20:45And I remind Jose, you know, you wanted to do over, this is it because this
00:20:49horse can win and don't, you know, ride smarter into that first turn.
00:20:54You have these clear conditions that you wanted.
00:20:57And, uh, I think he was so, in my opinion, I think he was so relieved.
00:21:01I feel he was so proud of himself.
00:21:03You know, he, he took advantage of that second opportunity to win this
00:21:07race and he got it, he got it right.
00:21:09And I was so proud of him as well.
00:21:11And lastly, he's been a very important part of our stable, uh, through the years,
00:21:15his career is still very young and he's already had tremendous, um, success
00:21:20with us writing, you know, uh, some really outstanding horses and coming
00:21:25through in the clutch and breeders cup races and triple crown races, just
00:21:28delivering really good rides for us.
00:21:30And, um, he deserves all the success.
00:21:34Uh, Chad, now you've won your second triple crown race.
00:21:36Uh, you won the bluegrass this year.
00:21:38Uh, Jack Christopher won a grade one on the dirt last year in the champagne.
00:21:42As are you making more of a transition into the typical three-year-old
00:21:46classic dirt horses and, you know, visa V maybe less turf oriented.
00:21:51Is that sort of, was, did any of this come about by design or is this sort
00:21:55of just sort of the way things have fallen, uh, as you know, things
00:21:58have, have, uh, gone along with the series.
00:22:00Yeah, no, that's a great question.
00:22:01It really it's just the way things have fallen, um, or me and my team, we've
00:22:06always been, um, you know, able, you always learn and get better at what
00:22:12you're doing and that's, and with turf horses, we do the same thing.
00:22:16I, we've had a lot more success early on with the turf horses and their horses,
00:22:19but, um, we're still, I'm still learning.
00:22:22I still pick up things and make adjustments as, as things change
00:22:26within say the breed or the track conditions or, you know,
00:22:32any situations that I think I can make an adjustment.
00:22:35I will.
00:22:36And with the dirt horses as well, but I think it's just, you know, when you
00:22:39get the right group of horses, you get to show, you know, what you and your
00:22:43team can do and, um, you know, just, it was five years ago already, the other
00:22:49pregnant, so it's, it's, you go back there and mentioned Jack Christopher,
00:22:53but that's the third champagne more.
00:22:55So there was ones before him.
00:22:57So I think if we have the right horses and with our stable, thank
00:23:03God we have so many good horses sent to us, but in fairness, only a portion
00:23:11of more dirt horses, because we are sent so many turf horses, we buy so
00:23:15many turf horses and there's only so many courses you can train.
00:23:18So it's not like we go with one Derby and Oaks lineup and it's, you know, all
00:23:25or bust, you know, um, they're just a portion of what we do.
00:23:29And if we get the right batch of them.
00:23:31I'm proud of my team got to show off that they, they know
00:23:34what to do to get them here.
00:23:36You know, on Saturday, it was obviously a big day for Seth
00:23:39Klarman being a hometown boy in Baltimore, but you like to bring
00:23:42your family out to the track too.
00:23:43Were your daughters at the track?
00:23:45Did they have a good time?
00:23:46And how are they, how are they coming along as racing fans?
00:23:49Thank you for asking.
00:23:50Um, on this one, they couldn't, they saw him there at the Derby, which
00:23:53was so nice to get them there.
00:23:55And, uh, they had a, they had a great, great time.
00:23:57I, although I think their biggest, uh, thrill was meeting Jack Harlow.
00:24:03I wouldn't even know who he was.
00:24:04So it's just an old I'm getting.
00:24:06Um, so, uh, that was their biggest, uh, thrill, but no, they were, they were
00:24:11into it and, um, you know, it's so nice when they're able to come,
00:24:15come out and support and they, they could ironically, my little
00:24:18one had a horse show on Saturday.
00:24:19So that took, that took precedence.
00:24:21She's into jumpers and such.
00:24:22So, um, but yeah, there it's, uh, hopefully the beginning of a nice
00:24:28summer together and there'll be more windpicks, you'll see them.
00:24:30Yeah.
00:24:31Do they want to follow in your footsteps?
00:24:32Like, do they want to train or ride?
00:24:33Like you said, the horse show thing, but yeah, I hope, you know, my, my big
00:24:37one, Ava's 13 and, uh, doesn't show much interest in the hands-on part of it.
00:24:42But, uh, like, you know, like to go to the track for the big races, my little
00:24:45girl, Andy's 10 and I don't know.
00:24:47I'd like to see her go into the thoroughbreds at some point, but right
00:24:49now she's into the jumping, uh, showing horses, just beginner level, but doing
00:24:53great.
00:24:54So, uh, I appreciate you asking.
00:24:56So not a question I don't think I ever get asked and it's very nice.
00:24:59Well, no, it's great.
00:25:00It's great to see them at the track with you too.
00:25:02It really, it really adds to the personality and the fun of the day.
00:25:05Go ahead, Bill.
00:25:06Yeah.
00:25:06Hey, Chad, we've been running a series in the TDN about asking prominent
00:25:10people in the industry, if they think the triple crown should be changed.
00:25:12And I was to be honest, very surprised by your answer.
00:25:16You basically said, no, it shouldn't be changed.
00:25:18And the reason why I was surprised is because, um, you know, perhaps no one
00:25:22else in training more so than you likes to space races out, um, you know,
00:25:26ordinarily wouldn't even dream of running a horse three times in five weeks.
00:25:29So, you know, talk about that, about the tradition, the triple crown and why
00:25:32you don't think it should be changed.
00:25:35Yeah, that's a great question.
00:25:35I, because you're so accurate.
00:25:39I prefer to space my horses out and give them rest.
00:25:41And I, and I believe it's all trainer preference.
00:25:45I think spacing horses out.
00:25:47A lot of people say, well, maybe the horses, the breed and they're not as
00:25:51durable and need recovery time more.
00:25:53And we've read into it, maybe.
00:25:54So maybe it's part of it.
00:25:55I also think it's also a product of the entire program of a trainer.
00:26:01Some horses need spacing about, and that's the result maybe of all the
00:26:04other things you do with horses to bring them along to their races.
00:26:07So it just depends on the overall training program that they're in
00:26:11of maybe how much rest or lack of rest is effective or not.
00:26:17Um, my answer was really based on the history of the sport.
00:26:22When I got into horse racing right here in Saratoga Springs, where I'm
00:26:25speaking to you from, I was just drawn to the history of rich, rich history
00:26:29of the sport and, uh, the prestige of the sport and such, and I'm a,
00:26:33really an old fashioned guy.
00:26:36I, um, I like to stick to the basics.
00:26:38I, I don't, I'm not really in favor of too much of much change at the top.
00:26:47I'd say like with the real pillars of the sport, meaning, um, triple crown
00:26:53races and, you know, maybe, uh, older track settings and grandstands
00:26:59and stuff like that, I don't.
00:27:01Uh, changing the names of prestigious stake races and stuff.
00:27:05I don't, I don't support any of that.
00:27:08I'm changing any of that.
00:27:10Um, ironically with my training, something that Franco shared with me, he told me
00:27:15one day, he said, remember something.
00:27:19If I trained horses the same way.
00:27:22Now that I did in the seventies or the eighties or even the early
00:27:25nineties, I wouldn't be winning as much.
00:27:28So when you leave and you go on and I'm not around anymore, don't be afraid to
00:27:33change, don't be so stuck to my system because that's all, you know, take it.
00:27:38And always change a little bit.
00:27:40And I have, even though his system is really the base of what we do.
00:27:44And much like our team, Franco could train any kind of horse.
00:27:47And, uh, I think much like me, maybe, uh, he got more credit later with his
00:27:52dirt horses when he started to get the right type of dirt horses,
00:27:55he showed what he can do.
00:27:57And early on, he was probably known as a great turf trainer or
00:28:00trainer of Phillies, right?
00:28:02Stuff like that.
00:28:02So not to get off base, but, um, ironically I'm in favor of
00:28:07changing things in my training system, but not, not for the main pillars of
00:28:12the sport and the things that matter to me, the most, the things that most
00:28:15define the history of the sport, I would leave alone.
00:28:18So Chad, you, you talked about, you know, you have to look at the
00:28:21individual horse about why you brought good magic back.
00:28:23So let's take the case then of your two triple crown runners,
00:28:27Zanden and early voting.
00:28:29Why did you make the decision that you did with them for Zanden to, uh, I'm
00:28:32not in, in Phil me, cause I'm not even exactly sure where he's going next.
00:28:36And then, but he, he skipped the briefness and then with early voting, you've already
00:28:40said he's not running in Belmont.
00:28:42Yeah.
00:28:43Well, first of all, those two horses, I don't believe those horses will be
00:28:46effective at a mile and a half.
00:28:48Um, it's not just the distance Belmont's track and it's really my home track now.
00:28:53Um, you know, Saratoga is my, you know, my, my heart and soul and home track
00:28:58from a standpoint where I grew up, but really Belmont's the only track I train
00:29:02at where I have horses year round nonstop.
00:29:04And, uh, and anyway, I know the track very well and I just don't, don't feel
00:29:09they're going to, they're going to suit that track at that distance.
00:29:12Um, as far as where they're going to run out next, um, you know, the timing of the
00:29:18race, the Jim Dandy, uh, and Haskell, they both look good.
00:29:21There's the obvious pressure, the Travers the Travers is really the, the, the next
00:29:26race we've really loved to win, uh, outside of the Kentucky Derby.
00:29:29So I think either of those two races fits and then, um, I really penciled
00:29:35into Jim Dandy for the obvious reasons of his running style and such at Saratoga.
00:29:38It would just make sense maybe to stay away from mom with the horse like that.
00:29:42Early voting has a lot of early speed as does Jack Christopher, if we can
00:29:45get him out around a mile and eighth.
00:29:47So, um, we'll have to see what those two horses end up meeting.
00:29:51I checked Christopher on voting.
00:29:53You know, what I, one of my theories is that it's, it's easier for a trainer of
00:29:57your caliber to, to wait and to be more selective with the spots you run in
00:30:01because you have a lot of grade one, grade two type horses.
00:30:03I don't remember when you first started, did you, were you running
00:30:06horses more often when you had less horses and slightly cheaper stock?
00:30:12It's a good question.
00:30:13Um, I'd have to go back and look, I'd say yes with, um, with the lower
00:30:20level horses, which that's all I had.
00:30:22When I started to get some better horses, even if it was just a handful and they
00:30:29might not even been grade one horses.
00:30:31No, because remember from the school of Frankel, uh, early on in my career is
00:30:37when I mostly stuck to what he was doing, even though I didn't have his
00:30:41horses immediately when I went out, there couldn't have been a bigger
00:30:44contrast to the horse I had to work with, but I did apply most of his system there.
00:30:48And then when I had better horses, ironically, more in line of the days of
00:30:53Frankel, we called murderers row Hollywood park.
00:30:57I mean, they were all lined up down there when I started to build my own
00:30:59murderers row, you know, a few years back, I had courses more like him, but
00:31:06the system was starting to drift just a little bit of what he did ironically.
00:31:10And that same horses, because things change like he showed me.
00:31:13So I think for, in conclusion, I answer, I say for smaller stables for
00:31:20stable starting and such, yeah, there's a lot of factors that you'd, you'd be
00:31:24more tempted to run the horses back sooner.
00:31:26You have less of them, you know, it's, it's your, it's your source of revenue.
00:31:30And as long as the horses sound, I can, I could see, um, that being a fair
00:31:34point to, to not have so much spacing.
00:31:36Right.
00:31:37Chad, I'm kind of the, uh, unofficial president of the Jack
00:31:40Christopher fan club here.
00:31:41And, um, I'm not going to ask you to compare them to your other three
00:31:44year olds, that's not a fair question.
00:31:45You wouldn't want to answer it for obvious reasons, but just give us your
00:31:48take on him and, you know, what you hope to accomplish for the rest of the year.
00:31:52And just in general, how, how, how good is he?
00:31:55And, and, you know, what might we be seeing from a horse that
00:31:57obviously has a ton of talent?
00:31:59Yeah, he, he's such an incredible talent at worse.
00:32:02And he's one of those rare horses where the very first time we walked the
00:32:05horse tree for a long work and he just blew me away and now that I've had
00:32:11good, fortunate work on so many good horses, it takes a lot for that enough.
00:32:15One work is horses will disappoint you sometimes, you know, the work
00:32:19good early and you get the owners all pumped up and then by the time you
00:32:22get them to five, three long works in a race, wow, I wish I didn't get
00:32:24this, this hundred so pumped up.
00:32:26Cause they're not as good as they thought that works just off.
00:32:29One work was absolutely breathe in different air than what I, what I saw
00:32:34of any horse last summer, region of Saratoga.
00:32:36So, uh, from that point till now, the horse has never disappointed us.
00:32:41He's just done everything we've ever asked him to do.
00:32:44Um, and you know, I'll tell you that horse reminds me a lot of go separate.
00:32:48I said it after the race at Churchill.
00:32:50I mean, it, it might sound like a unfair thing to say.
00:32:54And then I'm not saying he'll accomplish maybe even half of what, what goes
00:32:58separate did, but he's certainly on his way.
00:33:01You, you could understand why I'd say that with the brilliance.
00:33:04He's, he's a different color horse, but he looks just like him.
00:33:07He's a, he don't be fooled that he's a sprinter.
00:33:11And fortunately I had the opportunity to work with the
00:33:13sapper and around, around Frankel.
00:33:15And if I hadn't had that experience, I would have looked at this horse and
00:33:19already sort of made my mind up.
00:33:21Like, he's not going to go that far, but he's brilliant.
00:33:24But I didn't think that about those separate, I, early on, I looked at the
00:33:27horse and I didn't think there was any way when Frankel put him around two
00:33:30turns that he was going to be successful just from my inexperience.
00:33:34And, and it showed why I was the apprentice and pretty far
00:33:37down at that, at that point.
00:33:40So, uh, but he, uh, had the experience and this horse reminds me of him.
00:33:45And I, I think he's a rare horse that he's going to be able to carry his
00:33:49speed and his sprinty pedigree farther than people think.
00:33:53Yeah.
00:33:53Bill is the number one Jack Christopher fan.
00:33:55I'm the car carrying member of the ghost sapper fan club.
00:33:59When I heard that, I was like, I was suspicious about it, but I was
00:34:02like, if anybody would know it's Chad, Chad worked hands on with those horses.
00:34:05I'll take your word for it.
00:34:07Uh, last question for me, you know, there's been a lot of talk in recent
00:34:10years about Belmont winterizing and trying to create a year round product
00:34:15and eventually closing aqueduct.
00:34:16That would probably include a synthetic track.
00:34:19Uh, you're a guy who ships everybody down basically South
00:34:22for the winter to Palm Meadows.
00:34:25If they were to have a third surface over the winter, would you be more
00:34:30likely at all to keep some horses in New York, or would you just rather
00:34:33stay with the current program and keep them on tour in Florida?
00:34:37So, so ironically, the two Preakness winners wintered in New York,
00:34:43which is crazy to think about.
00:34:44You're right.
00:34:45The majority of our stable goes down South.
00:34:48Um, we liked those horses to the circumstance sometimes
00:34:52of why you leave them up there.
00:34:53It might seem like the bigger stable when we leave horses behind.
00:34:57Particularly years ago.
00:34:59Um, it would be lesser horses, New York breads are claiming horses on dirt, but
00:35:05nowadays I find with our program, at least sometimes it's a late starting
00:35:10three-year-old that's a dirt horse that you don't want to move because
00:35:13they just ran in December and.
00:35:16There's an acclimation that has to take place.
00:35:19When you go down to Florida, out of the cool air to the humidity in December
00:35:23and stuff, and it sets you back sometimes.
00:35:25And, you know, most of the horses do go down our base of operations.
00:35:28Now it's really pace in park.
00:35:30It has been Palm Meadows for the first 13 years of my training
00:35:33career, a hundred percent accurate.
00:35:36But the last two years, we started to shift up there on a 60, 40 basis at
00:35:41Payson and next year we're going to plan on probably put them all up there.
00:35:44I just feel it's a better environment for our horses.
00:35:47Um, everyone has their own preferences of what works and everyone
00:35:51has success at all the places.
00:35:52But for us, I find Xandin for example, you know, came out of, out of Payson.
00:35:59Um, I feel like, um, with this change, potential change in New York, if they
00:36:06do put a synthetic track, um, I would certainly consider leaving.
00:36:12Well, first of all, I'm going to, they're my partners.
00:36:14So when, when people provide good environment for me to train, and
00:36:17then, like I said, Belmont's my home track and Naira has been very good
00:36:20to us over the years to grow our company from, you know, 20 horses to 250 horses.
00:36:26And we're, um, and they've been good business partners with, um, we're just
00:36:30working together on any type of issue you can work on between stabling
00:36:34racetrack surfaces and, and staffing such stake schedules, whatever.
00:36:39Um, I'm going to participate and help if they ask me and if
00:36:44something's new, I'm going to do it.
00:36:45So, uh, if it's successful, yeah, I would leave more turf horses up there.
00:36:50You know, you're not going to, you know, you're not going to see me leave
00:36:53rushing fall up there in the winter, but you're going to see these claiming
00:36:57horses and, and, uh, other horses that there's good races and the
00:37:00purses are really good.
00:37:01Yeah.
00:37:02And, um, so, um, and the expenses are less actually to stay in
00:37:05New York than to go down to Florida.
00:37:06So yes, we normally carry about 30 horses in the winter.
00:37:10And if they make these changes in the facility, like they're proposing
00:37:13and such, we might have as many as 50 horses there in the winter,
00:37:16which would be something different.
00:37:17Gotcha.
00:37:18Well, the winter is far away from our mind right now.
00:37:21Saratoga.
00:37:22How's it looking, Chad?
00:37:23You feeling good up there?
00:37:24Yeah, it looks beautiful.
00:37:26They, um, speaking of Naira again, they've really done a terrific job.
00:37:29So then Oklahoma track and it's the second year it's open and, uh, it's
00:37:33really like broken and looks good.
00:37:35It's terrific.
00:37:36We've used a bunch of horse on it today and it's already warming up up here.
00:37:38And, uh, you know, you're going to blank and Saratoga is going to be here.
00:37:41So it's trying to get ready.
00:37:43Absolutely.
00:37:44Less than two months away.
00:37:45We can't wait to see you up there.
00:37:46Thanks so much for the time chatting.
00:37:47Congratulations again on the win.
00:37:49Thanks for having me.
00:37:50Always a pleasure.
00:37:51Thanks so much.
00:37:52Take care.
00:37:53The green group guest of the week is sponsored by the green group and
00:37:56accounting tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
00:38:00industry is this week's green group guest of the week.
00:38:02Chad Brown will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
00:38:05Learn more at greenco.com.
00:38:07We'll be right back with this message from the green group.
00:38:11Why do the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select the
00:38:14green group as their tax advisor?
00:38:15We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
00:38:18Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard green has owned and bred some of the
00:38:22best race horses in the history of the sport, his in-depth hands-on industry
00:38:25knowledge combined with cutting edge tax saving strategies has produced
00:38:29positive results for his clientele and has made the green group, the top rated
00:38:32accounting and tax firm in the business for a confidential and complimentary
00:38:35consultation contact us at seven three, two six, three, four 5,100, or visit
00:38:40our website at www.greenco.com.
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00:38:46Honor code, a multiple grade one winner from the final crop of the legendary AP
00:38:51Indy never off the board in 11 starts.
00:38:54He was crowned a champion, older horse before retiring.
00:38:58Now he is living up to the promise of his pedigree with progeny, like grade
00:39:03one winners, honor AP max player and Mira Kuja and multiple six figure
00:39:09yearling sales honor code stands to continue his sire's legacy at Lane's end.
00:39:16The TDN writer's room is brought to you by Lane's end.
00:39:19The lane's end stallion of the week this week is honor code.
00:39:22And we're going to find out why in just a second, the dual grade.
00:39:25One winner is the sire of grade.
00:39:26One winner is max player, Mira Kuja and honor AP as well as recent
00:39:30grade three winner capital recharge.
00:39:31He stands for $20,000 at Lane's end.
00:39:35And he had honestly the most important winner of the weekend.
00:39:37No disrespect to early voting.
00:39:39Stay on our good side who are a good friend and fan.
00:39:42Skip Anderson named last week, last year in our name, the fall
00:39:45contest sponsored by Lane's end.
00:39:48And now joining us for the first time, Chad Brown, he's your warmup back.
00:39:51Skip don't want you to do it differently.
00:39:52Skip Anderson.
00:39:53Thanks for coming on.
00:39:54Hey, thanks for having me, Joe, John.
00:39:58So great to have you.
00:39:59You had a champion trainer.
00:40:00Now we get a champion sheep breeder.
00:40:02This show covers all disciplines of breeding and training and everything.
00:40:06So, so skip talk, take me through the race on Saturday.
00:40:10How excited were you and how, how great was it to see him run so well?
00:40:14Well, I can tell you there wasn't a man, woman, and child in my inner circle of
00:40:17friends that didn't know that stay on her good side wasn't running, was running on
00:40:21Saturday because I told everybody about this.
00:40:26Yeah, it was a hell of a run.
00:40:29So as we were, as we were watching the race, I was dancing around, I was
00:40:33screaming, I was hollering, it was fantastic as Kip is really nice to talk to you.
00:40:39Tell us how you came up with the name.
00:40:42Well, being in the livestock industry, naming livestock is so important.
00:40:46Putting that name and building that brand for that animal is, is crucial
00:40:51because it's in the history books.
00:40:52It's in the stud book, it's in the pedigrees for the rest of that animal's
00:40:55life and coming up with that idea.
00:40:58Um, as you guys know, I think I probably submitted about 30 names, but, uh, there
00:41:02was lots of thought and lots of ideas into that one, and it was just a way to
00:41:06try to make the combination of with honor code and what maybe Nikki knew and
00:41:12put that together and came up with a great name, I thought.
00:41:16It was one of many great names, Skip.
00:41:18I almost wish that we could have cloned this horse just so we could have used
00:41:21some of your other names in there as well.
00:41:23Um, Skip now, now for the audience, just so, so they can live vicariously through
00:41:28you, the horse is going into the gate.
00:41:30He started off like three to one.
00:41:32There was a first time starting more than ready.
00:41:34That was like nine to five at the, in the beginning.
00:41:37And then right when we got to the gate, I think that's when we became the favorite
00:41:40again, what's going through your mind as the horse is entering the gate and just
00:41:44kind of walk us through, because the race is only 51 seconds long, but I'm sure the
00:41:48angst beforehand was even longer.
00:41:51It was wild.
00:41:52I, I was carrying all the nerves.
00:41:55I, when you have a name, when you name a horse, you think you're part owner.
00:41:59I was ready there to, to leg up the jockey.
00:42:02I wanted to be there.
00:42:03I wanted to see it all.
00:42:04I wanted to take it all in.
00:42:05And, and as we were going in, I was, I was shaking.
00:42:08It was, it was wild.
00:42:11Yeah.
00:42:11Maybe John, maybe John can give you a little bit of a cut of that.
00:42:14Or, or at least like we were talking about a, a one hour tax consultation.
00:42:19Absolutely.
00:42:20Actually, what was, what was the best part of the race aside from winning was that as
00:42:24soon as the race was official, I got a direct message from, from Skip on, on
00:42:28Twitter, um, that said, yeah, we're going to the breeder's cup.
00:42:31And that was, that was,
00:42:32so hey, 51 and change.
00:42:37And we were talking about this.
00:42:38We were talking about this in the group chat, the show group chat, right
00:42:41after 2023 road trip to the Queens plate.
00:42:45I mean, what do you think should John point for, I mean, this is going to be,
00:42:49and I'm sure he'll, he'll want it since you are kind of like the
00:42:52informal advisor for this horse.
00:42:54Um, I mean, let's just think the sky's the limit.
00:42:57Ontario bred should John be thinking Queens plate or is he, should he really
00:43:01go for the gusto and put this horse on the trail to the Kentucky Derby?
00:43:05What do you think?
00:43:06I think.
00:43:07You have to at least put him on the trail to the Kentucky Derby, but I think we've
00:43:11got to do what's best for the horse.
00:43:12I think we need to listen to his trainer, find out where the best options are and
00:43:17where we can get them promoted and what we can do to make them a superstar.
00:43:21Yeah.
00:43:23I hear bill and Bill's head is going up.
00:43:25He's like, do what's best for the horse.
00:43:28He's not going to run for another three months.
00:43:29Right.
00:43:31Well, in this, in this case, the horse, that's an excuse because there really
00:43:34aren't any races for, for winners between now and kind of mid July.
00:43:38Um, so, so just for those of you at home and they're going to be following the
00:43:42horse, the two races that we're considering are the Sanford, the grade three Sanford,
00:43:46um, at Saratoga on July 16th or keeping them in woodbine on July 17th, the
00:43:52Victoria steak, um, you know, on, on his home, on his home track.
00:43:56I know one of the things that we do want to try to, um, see either way is
00:44:00whether or not he can run on the dirt.
00:44:02So, you know, skip and I haven't talked about strategy yet, as far as where
00:44:05the horse is going to run yet, but I got a feeling that we're going to
00:44:08probably lean towards the dirt race.
00:44:09Um, just to see if we do have, you know, a, a Derby candidate or not.
00:44:14Um, he was three fifths of a second off the track record and then one in a hand
00:44:17ride and, uh, you know, that was, that was really, really kind of cool, but it
00:44:21was even more impressive as Mark Cassie doesn't have a history of really honing
00:44:24on these or on these two-year-olds first time out, um, like some other trainers do.
00:44:28So we're hoping he's got more in the tank and that the four and a half
00:44:30furlong win wasn't the, you know, the, the top of his, uh, of his career.
00:44:36Um, but the main thing is he lived up to his name, skip, and I can't thank you
00:44:39enough for coming up with such a great, uh, a name for it, for this.
00:44:44Well, I love the opportunity to be part of it.
00:44:46And as a big fan of the show, it was, I was jumping on that chance right
00:44:50away to put some names in there.
00:44:52Yeah.
00:44:52I mean, John, send them to Saratoga.
00:44:54That way we can go see him.
00:44:56Yeah.
00:44:56Skip is a great guy.
00:44:57Skip has offered to like buy me a drink from afar.
00:45:00And I told him only if you come to Saratoga, then you can buy me a drink.
00:45:03So maybe we can work that out.
00:45:05If he runs into Sanford, we'd love to see you there.
00:45:07Right.
00:45:07And one more quick thing, just for the, for the audience at home, skip is
00:45:11since you're such so good at naming, tell everyone what your daughter's name is.
00:45:16Our daughter's name is when, when Christine, we thought, uh, we thought
00:45:22place and show wasn't appropriate.
00:45:23So I love it, but I also won't want skip to give some of his background.
00:45:30Cause we know, we know a little bit of it cause we're, we're friendly with him.
00:45:33Um, but he's the sheep unit manager at North Dakota state
00:45:35university in Fargo, North Dakota.
00:45:37And also he's at NDSU.
00:45:39He's an instructor of livestock sales and marketing.
00:45:42Is this something that your family has always been into?
00:45:44Can you tell us a little bit about your history?
00:45:45Yeah, I've, I've raised sheep my entire life with my family in Wisconsin.
00:45:49And then upon graduating college, I went and worked for a registered Angus
00:45:53ranch in Southern Mississippi and had the opportunity to work
00:45:57with a breeding program there.
00:45:59And really it's the, the pedigrees and the strategic matings and the stories
00:46:03of making better livestock is what really excites me and, and thoroughbred
00:46:08industry gives me that as well with a lot more pageantry and fanfare.
00:46:12Yeah.
00:46:13Is it, so was it, was that the crossover?
00:46:15Was that got you into racing?
00:46:16Was it what got you into racing or do you have a separate interest?
00:46:19So I've always been a casual fan of horse racing, watching
00:46:23the triple crown races on TV.
00:46:25But it was a road trip I took and downloaded the audio book about American
00:46:30Pharaoh and listened to that and got hooked and thought, this is everything
00:46:34I love about livestock and being in animal agriculture and it's exciting
00:46:39and it's fun and it's on TV and we can gamble on it.
00:46:41So why not, why not really dive into thoroughbred racing?
00:46:46Hell yeah.
00:46:47No, I mean, and we love, we love having you watch the show and we're
00:46:49going to throw up some pictures of Skip's champion Hampshire, you, and then
00:46:53a couple of other pictures of Skip in the farm, so we always appreciate
00:46:57the support and it's so great.
00:46:59I couldn't have been happier for that horse winning, man, because
00:47:02you know, Skip really earned that contest.
00:47:04Like he was saying, he put in like 30 different names.
00:47:06We had to scan through the list.
00:47:07We were like, is that Skip?
00:47:08No.
00:47:08Is that Skip?
00:47:09No.
00:47:09Cause we couldn't have five finalists that were all Skip's names, but I think
00:47:13he was going to win no matter what in the end.
00:47:15Well, it was a blast.
00:47:16I enjoyed it and can't wait to have another one.
00:47:19Yeah.
00:47:19Hell yeah.
00:47:20We may have to have Skip.
00:47:21If we do it again, we may have to have him as a judge instead of as a
00:47:23contestant, just to be in on it.
00:47:28Yes, sir.
00:47:28All right, Skip.
00:47:29Thanks so much for stopping by, man.
00:47:31Congratulations on the win.
00:47:32We'll talk to you soon, bud.
00:47:33Thanks a lot, guys.
00:47:34Enjoy it.
00:47:36Yo, so thanks so much to our boys, Skip, for stopping by.
00:47:39We're so happy that he, not only he won that contest, but the
00:47:41horse looks like a runner.
00:47:42So he's, he's got that rooting interest, at least for the, this year and next
00:47:45year, until he becomes a stallion and John whisks him off to stud, but
00:47:50you have to skip for coming through.
00:47:51If you want to, if you want to follow Skip on Twitter, it's
00:47:53Babaacres, B-A-A-B-A-A-C-R-E-S.
00:47:57Definitely worth a follow.
00:47:58Skip's a great guy and we appreciate all his support always on the show.
00:48:02And the CDM Writing Room is brought to you by the Kentucky
00:48:05Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders.
00:48:06Kentucky breds have now captured 103 editions of the Preakness Stakes
00:48:10after early voting's win on Saturday, bred by Three Chimneys Farm.
00:48:13The son of Gunrunner was purchased by Clarivish Stables at the
00:48:162020 Keeneland September sale.
00:48:18So far this year, Kentucky breds have won the first two legs of the Triple Crown.
00:48:23Gotta think they're going to be odds on or thereabouts to win the Belmont.
00:48:26So obviously Kentucky breds, successful all over the world.
00:48:30And those purses at Churchill, if you see them, maidens for over a hundred
00:48:34thousand, allowances for around 110, 120,000, monster, monster, monster,
00:48:39opportunities for owners and trainers to race there right now and collect those
00:48:42checks and offset some of those costs that John Green's always complaining about.
00:48:46So we'll be right back to this message from the KTOB.
00:48:50With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round,
00:48:55there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of
00:48:58breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:49:01Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high as his average purse per race outpays
00:49:07in California, Florida, and New York.
00:49:10Kentucky breds, breed them, raise them, race them.
00:49:16We all win.
00:49:37The TDN Writers Room was brought to you by XBTV, this week's XBTV Workout of the Week
00:49:57features Hot Rod Charlie working four furlongs on Saturday at Santa Anita in 49-3.
00:50:03It was his second work back since a runner-up effort in the Dubai World Cup.
00:50:07Doug O'Neill said he's pointing the horse to the grade two Stephen Foster stakes on
00:50:11July 2nd.
00:50:13We loved watching Hot Rod Charlie last year.
00:50:15I thought he was kind of an under-the-radar three-year-old a little bit.
00:50:17And it's like such a strong crop, but I mean, he's primed for a big four-year-old season
00:50:23as well.
00:50:23And one thing I like about Doug O'Neill, he's going to race his horses.
00:50:26We're going to talk about this in a little bit, but Doug O'Neill will actually run his
00:50:30horses.
00:50:30So check out Hot Rod Charlie, check out all the contenders for the upcoming Saratoga,
00:50:35Delmar meet Stephen Foster, like I mentioned, on XBTV.com.
00:50:39Just type the horse's name in that little search bar and you'll most likely find him.
00:50:43OK, so we've got to follow up a little bit, I feel like, on last week's discussion about
00:50:47the triple crown spacing and whether or not the races should be changed.
00:50:51I posted a tweet on Saturday that I thought was kind of benign and people would agree
00:50:57with, you know, that the second, third and fourth finishers all on the preakness ran
00:51:00back in two weeks and their legs didn't fall off.
00:51:03I was surprised at how many people got mad at me about that tweet and were yelling at
00:51:07me that like, well, you don't know that the horses are fine.
00:51:10And, you know, what kind of race are we going to get for the Belmont?
00:51:14Apparently, there's a lot of fans of five and six horse fields across the country out
00:51:18there because that's what this leads to.
00:51:20You know, if you're going to if you're going to cheer and, you know, champion trainers
00:51:24never running their horses unless it's on perfect, absolute optimal rest, that's what
00:51:30that leads to.
00:51:31So like I said last week, I don't think you can complain about the short fields and the
00:51:34stakes races all across America and then also be in favor of changing the triple crown because
00:51:40four weeks isn't going to be enough.
00:51:41You put them four weeks apart.
00:51:43That's not going to be enough.
00:51:44You put them six weeks apart.
00:51:46That's eventually not going to be enough for trainers.
00:51:48So unless you want to run the triple crown races, one in March, one in July or August,
00:51:52and then one in November, it's never going to be enough for the modern trainer.
00:51:56And I just I can't understand how people support that.
00:51:59And I'm not saying, like I said last week, you know, we just talked to Chad Brown.
00:52:04I defer to him.
00:52:05He's he's obviously an outstanding trainer, a champion trainer.
00:52:08He needs to do what he thinks is, quote unquote, right for the horse.
00:52:12But, you know, as a fan, you don't have to you don't have to cheer that and support that.
00:52:16And, you know, I just I don't understand the fan of racing who wants to see horses
00:52:21apparently run less frequently and have shorter fields built.
00:52:26Yeah, Joe, I mean, very, very well said.
00:52:28I'm surprised that you got that kind of reaction to that kind of tweet.
00:52:32And just I want to get back to the greatness.
00:52:33But I thought there was a side note.
00:52:36And you talk about the dearth of stakes horses out there.
00:52:40On Saturday at Belmont Park, there was no stakes race.
00:52:43Now, I don't know this for a fact, but Belmont, the modern Belmont Open, I think in like 1966
00:52:49or 1967, 68 or something like that.
00:52:51I think it's a good chance.
00:52:52It's the first time in the history of Belmont Park.
00:52:54There was not a stakes race on a Saturday.
00:52:56And the race that was Carter was called the Seek Again Stakes.
00:52:59It didn't fill for Saturday.
00:53:01So they brought it back for Sunday with a three horse field.
00:53:04How about that?
00:53:05Isn't that exciting?
00:53:05Now that, you know, that's apples and oranges when it comes to the Triple Crown.
00:53:09But, you know, anyone who tells you there's not a problem, that's not correct.
00:53:14There is a problem here.
00:53:15I mean, we have we don't have the we didn't have the derby winner coming back in the previous
00:53:19we don't have the previous winner coming back in the Belmont.
00:53:21The Belmont is not half the race.
00:53:23It could be if people actually ran these things, you know, like they did back in the
00:53:2760s and 70s and that sort of thing.
00:53:30But, you know, there are no easy fixes.
00:53:33And especially the idea and I am glad we're all on board with this of, you know, extending
00:53:38the dates.
00:53:39And like you said, Joe, and I'll bring this up again, I think that the most popular theory
00:53:44is make it four weeks, four weeks, etc.
00:53:46I wouldn't do that would do almost no good because that is not nearly enough time for
00:53:51the modern trainer.
00:53:52There's one other thing, though, that I would like to bring up that hasn't been discussed
00:53:56in this whole much in this whole situation.
00:53:59Let's look at the purses of the three Triple Crown races and the Derby's three million
00:54:02dollars.
00:54:03Honestly, they can make the Derby three dollars and give you a blue ribbon if you win.
00:54:08And everybody would want to run because it's the Kentucky Derby.
00:54:11But the Preakness is one point five million and the Belmont is one point five million.
00:54:16And this day and age, that's nothing.
00:54:19Matter of fact, you could have a three year old that ran in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile
00:54:24for two million and then you're asking him to come back in the Preakness and Belmont
00:54:29for one point five million.
00:54:30I mean, we had the Breeders' Cup Classic at six million, the Breeders' Cup Trophy at
00:54:33four million, not to mention the purses in the two races in the Middle East.
00:54:38Now, I would suspect that Pimlico would probably have a hard time increasing the purse.
00:54:43There's not a ton of revenue there.
00:54:45They do have an affiliation.
00:54:47They get some money from gaming.
00:54:48But shouldn't the Belmont stakes be worth five million dollars?
00:54:52I mean, Naira has all the money in the world when it comes to purses.
00:54:57Would that solve all the problem?
00:54:59No.
00:55:00But, you know, again, we talk about early voting and we didn't ask Chad that question.
00:55:05It's all hypothetical.
00:55:06But if the Belmont were five million dollars, might he be running?
00:55:09I think maybe so.
00:55:11So, I mean, there's something else that needs to be looked at.
00:55:15I can't believe I'm saying that one point five million is not a lot of money.
00:55:18But in what we're talking about with purses out there, it's, you know, a seven figure
00:55:22purse does not get you the least bit.
00:55:24How many million dollar horse races are there in the United States?
00:55:27It's got about 25 or 30, if not more than that.
00:55:30And so, you know, your premier three year old races should not be run for the same money
00:55:36or less money than, you know, the Breeders' Cup juvenile.
00:55:41And I think one of the bigger overarching issues that we're kind of touching on is the
00:55:45fact that because every year for the past, whatever, 20 years, I think it is the full
00:55:50crop has decreased, but the number of steak races have increased.
00:55:55So what's going to happen is you're going to get the all these, you know, all these
00:55:57racetracks have these steak races as their premier races for the week or the weekend
00:56:02or even for the meat.
00:56:03And they're all trying to recruit from the same, you know, diminishing pool of horses
00:56:10every year.
00:56:11And whether it's that there's less foals born every year or, as we've mentioned before,
00:56:15you know, the top horses that are immediately being swept off the racetrack and into the
00:56:18breeding shed once they hit a certain milestone, whether it's a grade one win or a certain
00:56:23amount of money.
00:56:25And it's just, you know, leaving these racetracks scrambling to try to get these steak races
00:56:31going on.
00:56:32And Bill, you brought up a very good point about not having a steak race at Belmont on
00:56:37Saturday.
00:56:37How about the fact that, you know, if you looked at the card for, you know, at Pimlico
00:56:41on Black Eyed Susan and Preakness Week, it was a terrible card.
00:56:46I mean, especially in comparison to how good the Oaks Derby card was or how good, you know,
00:56:52the Belmont card is going to be or any weekend in Saratoga.
00:56:56And it just seems like that even though black type races are what fuels the pedigrees and
00:57:03the value for the breeding opportunities, you know, if we can't even get these steak
00:57:07races to go, then maybe we need to pair off some of them and just let them kind of, you
00:57:12know, die off on the vine because maybe it doesn't have the same kind of value that it
00:57:16used to.
00:57:17And, you know, again, we've talked about decreasing, you know, grading levels of certain
00:57:22races if they don't deserve it.
00:57:23And I know that's an uphill battle and people don't want to do that.
00:57:26If they get a graded steak race, they want to keep it because there's so much value to
00:57:30the horses that finish first, second or third and their families within.
00:57:34But it's got to be something that we're going to have to look at pretty soon because if
00:57:38you can't get steak races to go at Belmont, then what are we doing?
00:57:44Yeah.
00:57:44I mean, eventually that reality of the declining full crops is going to come crashing through
00:57:50to the American Graded Steaks Committee.
00:57:52I mean, at least I hope so, because it just seems like, you know, it's just one of those
00:57:56things where we have so much racing and so much graded stakes racing.
00:58:01It's like we're in the same position that we were 20 years ago in terms of stakes and
00:58:05graded stakes.
00:58:06When we have, what, 50% fewer horses hitting the ground every year?
00:58:10I just I don't understand this kind of obsession with keeping, you know, keeping appearances
00:58:16and keeping all of these stakes races that nobody wants to run in anymore.
00:58:20When's the last time we got a big field graded stake in Santa Anita?
00:58:23We've had five and six horse fields nonstop in their graded stakes.
00:58:27And I mean, that's kind of a specific problem to Santa Anita in that they're on an island
00:58:31and they have, you know, they've had some issues over the past couple of years in attracting
00:58:36the horse population.
00:58:37But in general, there's five and six horse fields all over these, even these blockbuster
00:58:42cards.
00:58:43It's just unsustainable.
00:58:45And I don't understand how more people in racing don't realize that, don't understand
00:58:50that, you know, we have too many horses running for the races that we have already, never
00:58:54mind the top races that we have way too many of.
00:58:57And to that point, you know, if you want to space out the triple crown more, let's do
00:59:01the math.
00:59:01You want to make it four weeks?
00:59:03Let's take this year.
00:59:04You want to make it four weeks between races.
00:59:06Derby was on May 7th.
00:59:07Four weeks from then, June 4th.
00:59:09Four weeks from then is July 2nd.
00:59:12That's three weeks before the Haskell.
00:59:14So are you going to tell me that a lot of horses, a lot of trainers are not going to
00:59:18skip the Belmont to run in the Haskell?
00:59:20The idea that this is going to help the triple crown series to space it further apart.
00:59:25So then that the triple crown races are now pressing up against the Haskell and even the
00:59:29Travers and the Jim Dandy.
00:59:31Like, I don't, this idea that we're going to, we're going to help the series by giving
00:59:36trainers even more options is just nonsensical to me, at least.
00:59:39And, you know, I talked to Nick Tamero on this, about this on various things that he's,
00:59:45you know, he talks to people in the racing office.
00:59:47He's the race caller at Sam Houston.
00:59:50And in general, people in the racing office will tell you, give horsemen fewer options
00:59:55and you'll get bigger fields.
00:59:57It stands to reason.
00:59:58And yet some of the people who were following the triple crown and, you know, supposedly
01:00:03want to see it improve are like, let's give trainers even more options.
01:00:06Let's, you know, let's give them a chance to sit on their horses even more because then
01:00:10who knows what pops up, what race that might intrigue more or what small issue a horse
01:00:15might have.
01:00:16Five weeks, five weeks, keep your horse together for five weeks, three races.
01:00:20If you can't do that, then too bad.
01:00:22You're not a triple crown horse.
01:00:24That's the way I feel.
01:00:25The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:00:28Joining the West Point Thoroughbreds partnership can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie
01:00:32among people surrounding high class horses and stakes action for a fraction of the cost
01:00:36of trying to do it on your own.
01:00:37You can learn more at westpointtb.com.
01:00:40West Point had a great preakness weekend on Friday.
01:00:42First captain got his second greatest stakes win in the grade three Pemlico special.
01:00:45That was a really good race from him.
01:00:47He kind of looked like he was up against it on the turn.
01:00:49There was a slow pace in front of him.
01:00:51He just kept grinding and just kept coming and was able to get up late and win that race.
01:00:55Terry Finley said the Colt will be pointing for Saratoga this summer.
01:00:58And then on Saturday, Jackson Traveler took the grade three Maryland Sprint Stakes and
01:01:02at Belmont Classic Colors won in his four-year-old debut for Christoph Clement.
01:01:07So a lot of action as always for the West Point partners over the weekend.
01:01:10We look forward to seeing them the rest of the spring and especially this summer at Saratoga.
01:01:14We'll be right back after this message from West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:01:20All the thrills.
01:01:24Fraction of the bills.
01:01:28Experience the power of the partnership.
01:01:34Change your life, make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:01:39West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:01:43Visit westpointtb.com.
01:01:46Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:01:50We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:01:52We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:01:54We're always with your horse every step of the way.
01:01:58When it comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse.
01:02:02Just driving up and down the road every day.
01:02:04There's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility.
01:02:07The sport, the animal, the people that come to invest in the game.
01:02:10I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can because we do have the
01:02:13most beautiful sport in the world.
01:02:17The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:02:20If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business could benefit your program,
01:02:25give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:02:26They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own Legacy grads.
01:02:30They've now earned $3.15 million this year with 80 winners in the past year.
01:02:3680 winners of 101 races in total last week at Horseshoe Indianapolis.
01:02:41I like the Indiana grad.
01:02:43Horseshoe Indianapolis is a little bit clunky, but last week at Horseshoe Indianapolis,
01:02:47Sweepin' Justice broke her maiden.
01:02:48And then me and Chili picked up more black type for the placing in the Sagamore Sired Stakes.
01:02:52So shout out to Tommy and Wendy.
01:02:54All the success of their grads.
01:02:56They should feel very proud of.
01:02:57And that yearling sale season, less than two months away now.
01:03:01Basic July is coming up before you know it.
01:03:03So give Tommy or Wendy a shout Horseshoe.
01:03:06This week's Remy cartoon, a guy in the Belmont announcers booth or the press box saying,
01:03:12we might need to rethink our big Sandy nickname because we've got a bunch of people
01:03:15laying out and enjoying the beachy vibes on the Belmont main track.
01:03:19It really is deep.
01:03:20For anybody who's never been to Belmont, it is a deep, deep track.
01:03:25So I, you know, I miss being at Belmont a little bit more often.
01:03:28I'll be there for the Belmont Stakes and Belmont Stakes weekend.
01:03:30So if you're going to be out there, shoot your shot in the DM.
01:03:33We'll hang out and we'll get a drink.
01:03:35So looking forward to that.
01:03:37And it's gonna be a great weekend of racing, obviously.
01:03:40So that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Writers Room presented by Keeneland.
01:03:43Reminder that the Keeneland September sale starts Monday, September 12th.
01:03:47You can learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
01:03:50I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green, our Green Group guest of the week, Chad Brown,
01:03:54Skip Anderson for stopping by, as well as our producer, Patty Wolf, our associate producer,
01:03:59Katie Petruniak, and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aaliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:04:03Thank you so much for watching.
01:04:05See you next week.