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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast, our first of 2024.
00:00:32My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:33I'm a correspondent for the TDN, and I do the Down the Stretch Show on Sirius XM Radio
00:00:37with Dave Johnson.
00:00:39My name is Randy Moss.
00:00:40I'm with NBC Sports.
00:00:41Hope everybody had a happy holiday, and it's nice to be back in the starting gate again,
00:00:46Zoe.
00:00:47Absolutely.
00:00:48Happy New Year to you guys.
00:00:49Lucy's just giving it one of those, sticking her legs up in the air.
00:00:52I'm on dry January, so I'm drinking freshly squeezed grapefruit juice out of my XBTV glass
00:01:00right here.
00:01:01So cheers to you.
00:01:02Not that I usually drink while we're doing this show.
00:01:04Just want to throw that out there.
00:01:05There's no vodka in there, Zoe?
00:01:07No, no.
00:01:08I promise you there's nothing.
00:01:09Nothing.
00:01:10Okay.
00:01:11All right.
00:01:12So guys, this week for my TDN Week in Review, I took a look back at 2023 and also a look
00:01:17ahead at 2024.
00:01:19And boy, I got myself depressed right at about 2023.
00:01:23And I wanted to have sort of a panel discussion, both talking about the year that was and the
00:01:27year ahead.
00:01:29And when I looked at it and went over some of the big stories of the year, 2023 was a
00:01:35horse bleep year for Thoroughbred Horse Race, and I can't say it any other way.
00:01:39Unfortunately, that's the case.
00:01:40Yeah, there were some nice stories.
00:01:42Jenna Antonucci winning the Belmont was a great story.
00:01:46Purses are up around the country, et cetera.
00:01:48But for the main reason that we had the very high profile breakdowns at Churchill Downs
00:01:53in Saratoga, which the media, the mainstream media was all over, 60 Minutes winds up doing
00:01:59a piece that most people think was, whether you agree or not, bashed horse racing.
00:02:04It was a pretty bad year.
00:02:06We're going to talk a little bit later to Patrick Cummings of the National Thoroughbred
00:02:09Alliance about this.
00:02:10He pointed out Handel through November is down $500 million on the year.
00:02:16It's set to have its worst year other than COVID since 2011.
00:02:21So Randy, am I just being a purveyor of doom and gloom, nattering nabog of nevetism or
00:02:27negatism, whatever Spiro Agnew said, or am I on to something here?
00:02:33Well, I mean, as we'll talk about with Pat Cummings a little bit later, I mean, we all
00:02:37know that there are issues in this game that we love so much and they are not being addressed
00:02:45at the speed and at the level that they need to be addressed.
00:02:49We've talked about that ad nauseum for a long time.
00:02:52There was some, Gina Andonucci, right?
00:02:55I mean, Javier Castellano, after going 0 for 15 in the Kentucky Derby at age 45, finally
00:03:01gets his first Derby win with Mage.
00:03:04HISA, the anti-doping and the medication control part of HISA was finally implemented on May
00:03:11and it's now underway and hopefully it's making some difference in the sport.
00:03:17You can say this is bad news, but some people would say it's good news.
00:03:21Jason Service was brought to justice and sentenced in July to a four-year prison term.
00:03:27So we've got the needle moving in that regard as well.
00:03:31Cody's Wish again wins the dirt mile, but of course that's also mixed in with the bad
00:03:36news of what happened to Cody Dorman when he was leaving Santa Anita, California to
00:03:41go back home to Kentucky.
00:03:42So, yeah, I mean, there was a lot of bad news in the sport, mainly horse safety related,
00:03:49but some good news as well.
00:03:52Definitely some good news.
00:03:53Bill, I was about to go and find the vodka for a minute, I'm like, oh my God.
00:04:00Yeah, highs and lows.
00:04:01To be honest, I can't remember right now a year where you could say, yay, horse racing,
00:04:09which is really sad because I think in the last few years, especially through COVID,
00:04:13thank goodness horse racing was allowed to keep going during COVID.
00:04:17But there really hasn't been a whole lot of cheering for horse racing.
00:04:22You mentioned all the highlights, Cody's Wish, Jenna Antonucci, I'll throw in Gustavo Delgado
00:04:28Sr. After coming to this country nine years before and being a triple crown winning trainer,
00:04:34winning the derby, that was nice to see that someone could just uproot, come over here
00:04:39and start afresh and win the derby with a horse perhaps a lot of people didn't think
00:04:44was going to win.
00:04:45So that was one for me for sure, because he is really a good horseman and a good guy.
00:04:50But yeah, I mean, if you look back, it's time to look forward because the prognosis looking
00:04:56back on last year's, just a little grim for me, to be perfectly honest.
00:05:01I mean, hopefully we can move forward and get things going.
00:05:06But yeah, I can honestly say, and I've said this to a few people, I'm glad I'm not 19
00:05:12years old coming into this industry and we're trying to bring people in, but we need to
00:05:17offer them more to do.
00:05:19I mean, how can you say come to horse racing, it's great and then we look back and talk
00:05:24about what happened in 2023.
00:05:27We have to have a better outlook.
00:05:28We need better PR.
00:05:30We need just, we need a lot more, God, I can't even get the words.
00:05:38There's just so much that needs to be done.
00:05:41And we say that every time and nothing gets done.
00:05:43It's frustrating.
00:05:44I want to ask, well, Randy, go ahead.
00:05:47I want to add a question.
00:05:48I was just going to say that, you know, when we can tick off some of the highs of horse
00:05:52racing, I mean, in 2023, the thing that makes the lows stand out so much is that they're
00:06:01existential, right?
00:06:05They're the kind of lows that if they aren't addressed in the appropriate way, potentially
00:06:13threaten the existence of the sport as a whole.
00:06:16The horse safety issue, the loss of gamblers, things like that.
00:06:21So that's really the part that makes the lows, I think, seem so low and understandably so.
00:06:26Yeah.
00:06:27And I want to ask you a question that you kind of brought that up.
00:06:30Someone asked me the other day that if in my lifetime, horse racing will lose its quote
00:06:34unquote social license to operate.
00:06:36I said no.
00:06:37And I don't think it will.
00:06:40Horse racing, at least in the state of Kentucky, will be around 500 years from now.
00:06:44That's never going away.
00:06:46But when you have the kind of negative coverage that we got out of Saratoga, out of 60 Minutes,
00:06:52out of the Derby, we've got another one we're getting ready for next year, which I think
00:06:56is going to be brutal because The New York Times is behind it.
00:07:00And this Broken Horses documentary.
00:07:02And we know how much The New York Times has been anti-horse racing in its print coverage
00:07:06over the years.
00:07:10Did that social license get eroded a little bit this year?
00:07:14Yeah.
00:07:15I'd say it most definitely did.
00:07:17But I'll give you an example that gives you a little bit of hope.
00:07:20The big days still garner big crowds.
00:07:23We had opening day at Santa Anita.
00:07:25The highest handle we've had for a Tuesday, which is tough to do, open a racetrack on
00:07:30a Tuesday.
00:07:31There were thousands of people there.
00:07:32Yesterday, New Year's Day, took everybody by surprise.
00:07:35Yes, it was Dollar Beer Day.
00:07:37That brings a lot of people out.
00:07:39But it was absolutely packed at Santa Anita.
00:07:44Were they betting or were they drinking the dollar beers?
00:07:46The handle wasn't that huge, but there were a lot of people.
00:07:51So there are people that will come, but you just need to find a way to educate them and
00:07:57make them stay coming.
00:07:59The thing about the social license aspect of it that I think is somewhat encouraging
00:08:04for thoroughbred racing is that I trust that Joe Q. Public, the average sports fan, don't
00:08:13even have to be sports fans, just the average potential horse racing fan, can see through
00:08:19some of the extremism and some of the intense negativity that's directed toward the sport.
00:08:28And I think they'll understand that if horse racing is going in the right direction in
00:08:34terms of horse safety, let's say, and all this is being done, I think the people will
00:08:38largely understand that there is always going to be some level of risk involved with thoroughbred
00:08:46racing.
00:08:47There's some level of risk involved with horses in general anywhere, whether they're running
00:08:50around in the paddock in an open field or whatever.
00:08:54And just like football and concussions, I mean, I think people will understand that
00:08:58in thoroughbred racing, but they've got to be convinced that the needle is moving in
00:09:05the right direction.
00:09:06And it's got to be communicated that the needle is moving in the right direction.
00:09:11PR.
00:09:12But first, we have to get the needle moving in the right direction permanently, right?
00:09:16We've got to find the needle, Randy.
00:09:18You've got to find the needle first.
00:09:20We don't know where it is.
00:09:21It's lost in that haystack somewhere.
00:09:23Let's go and find the needle before we can move it.
00:09:26I think Zoe has a good point.
00:09:28I mean, I know that you, I'm going to give something away here, but you asked a question
00:09:32of Pat Cummings.
00:09:33Where do we start?
00:09:34Yeah.
00:09:35By God.
00:09:36Find the needle.
00:09:37He gave his best attempt to answer the question.
00:09:40I couldn't answer that question.
00:09:42I mean, there's so many different things, but, you know, there's things that need to
00:09:46be done.
00:09:47And hopefully, as we're going to get to in the next segment, things will be done and
00:09:50there'll be some changes coming in 2024.
00:09:53I do want to remind you that the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:09:57And yes, tis the season, guys.
00:10:00Keeneland has cataloged 1,401 horses plus dozens of supplemental entries for the 67th
00:10:08January Horses of All Ages Sale.
00:10:10It'll cover four sessions from January the 8th, that's this coming Monday, through the
00:10:1611th.
00:10:17The catalog features broodmares and broodmare prospects, newly turned yearlings, a.k.a.
00:10:22short yearlings, just because they're a little bit shorter, horses of racing age, stallions
00:10:26and stallion prospects.
00:10:28Book one will be held Monday and Tuesday, with book two on Wednesday and Thursday.
00:10:33Each day's session begins at 10 a.m.
00:10:36We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:10:43At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:10:50Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:10:58Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:11:02Not for our sake, but for theirs.
00:11:06For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:11:29Elite Power to the front, but Elite Power gets it again in the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
00:11:40The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Elite Power.
00:11:43Got some questions for you.
00:11:45I'm going to answer them too.
00:11:47Who ran the fastest buyer speed figure among all 2023 Breeders' Cup winners?
00:11:53It was Elite Power with 111.
00:11:56Who posted the fastest raggers and sheet figure of the year?
00:12:01It was Elite Power with a zero.
00:12:03Who was the highest ranked horse in North America in 2023,
00:12:07the two-time winning Breeders' Cup Sprint Champion
00:12:12and a winner of nine of his last 10 races?
00:12:16That was Elite Power. That's right.
00:12:18It was Horse of the Year candidate Elite Power.
00:12:21I think I've said his name enough now.
00:12:23The champion is starting his first year at Juddmont Farm for $50,000.
00:12:28Randy, who is the fastest horse of the week?
00:12:31Is it Elite Power?
00:12:33What's his name?
00:12:35We know Elite Power was the fastest horse at the Breeders' Cup
00:12:38this past year in Santa Anita, winning again in the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
00:12:41What about the fastest horse, not just of the past week,
00:12:44but let's say the past month because we've been off now for a couple of weeks.
00:12:47Every week, the fastest horse of the week is brought to you
00:12:50by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:12:52And the highlight sire, the spotlight sire of this podcast
00:12:57is a super fast horse in his own right.
00:13:00That would be Nashville, who still holds the six-foot-long track record at Keeneland,
00:13:05even through two Breeders' Cup Sprints being run there.
00:13:09Nashville ran that time of 107.89 that we've talked about so often on this podcast.
00:13:16And he's also off to a fast start at Stud, Nashville,
00:13:19bred 204 mares in 2023 and has a 91% in-foal rate.
00:13:26He's the fastest son of champion sprinter and sire of sire Spikestown,
00:13:30and Nashville stands at Windstar for a fee of only $15,000.
00:13:36Now, the fastest horse since the last time we were with you,
00:13:40I'm going to go back to the day after Christmas,
00:13:43December 26th, opening day, Santa Anita, Malibu Steaks,
00:13:47won by Speed Boat Beach over stablemate Hijazi of Bob Baffert 1-2
00:13:53in that seven-foot-long grade one at Santa Anita.
00:13:56And Speed Boat Beach on that day ran a buyer speed figure of 101.
00:14:01That is the top buyer speed figure that we've had since the last time that we were with you.
00:14:06Hijazi is now in four lifetime starts on dirt.
00:14:11He has had triple-digit buyer speed figures in each of those starts,
00:14:15and a 101 in the Malibu Steaks day after Christmas.
00:14:22All right, guys, so in the first segment, we talked about all the problems.
00:14:26Let's roll up our sleeves now and fix them.
00:14:28OK, easier said than done.
00:14:30But, you know, what are some things in 2024 that the sport can do to make things better?
00:14:36And to, you know, we know there's no magic bullets.
00:14:39Not all the problems are going to go away. And I'll start with one.
00:14:42This has been bugging me for a while.
00:14:44Why isn't stride safe at every racetrack in America?
00:14:48This technology, we had David Lambert on the podcast a while back.
00:14:51This technology has been around since 2011.
00:14:54And the sensors can detect problems with horses.
00:14:58And we know now that pre-existing conditions are more often than not what leads to breakdowns.
00:15:03They can tell a trainer that there is a problem that's brewing.
00:15:07And then the trainer, obviously, then is going to decide what to do with the horse.
00:15:11More times than not, I think, put them on the shelf and alleviate that.
00:15:15I think that the two biggest problems horse racing is facing so far as its future are obviously the breakdowns and the animal welfare aspects.
00:15:24And also the computer wagering.
00:15:26And, you know, which is just, I think, a huge threat to the future of this sport.
00:15:31And I think that's one of the reasons why Handle is down so much this year.
00:15:36But with, you know, the everyday player just getting their clock cleaned by these computer guys.
00:15:41So those are, you know, to me, the two areas where racing really needs to focus on.
00:15:45But I'll just I'll put one right out there.
00:15:47Come on, Churchill Downs. Come on, Naira. Come on, Santa Anita.
00:15:50Come on, Delmar. Come on, Keeneland. Come on, you know, Paducah Downs.
00:15:55Let's get stride safe onto these horses.
00:15:59What's the problem here, Randy?
00:16:01Yeah, that's a good point.
00:16:03Yeah, I mean, look, you pointed out a couple of things that that probably, you know, probably need to be changed that that definitely need to be changed.
00:16:14But as you also pointed out in the last segment, the list of things from transparency and, you know, decisions being made in the stewards stand around the country.
00:16:25We've just seen that pop up again in the last few weeks.
00:16:29But when you talk about we haven't talked about this particular thing enough, I don't think.
00:16:34And it's not something that can be fixed in 2024.
00:16:38But I think it's something that we need to start paying a little more attention to than we are.
00:16:45When you talk about horse safety, right?
00:16:48I think we've gone, I don't want to say as far as we can go, but we've gone a long way in the medication realm to cleaning up the medication problems that have contributed to horse deaths.
00:17:02I think we've we've taken big steps in veterinary oversight, especially in big racing days like the Triple Crown and the Breeders' Cup.
00:17:12Could it be better the rest of the year?
00:17:14Yes. But you talk about pre-existing conditions.
00:17:19OK, what causes pre-existing conditions?
00:17:24For decades now, for decades, we have been breeding thoroughbred racehorses with almost zero emphasis put on durability and soundness and all the emphasis put on speed.
00:17:41And the chickens are coming home to roost.
00:17:45I mean, that's that's what this is what you get when you have decades and piled upon decades of that sort of mismatched emphasis.
00:17:57You get horses that are much bigger, much stronger, much faster, but inherently either not any more durable or less durable than the thoroughbreds that we've seen from yesteryear.
00:18:11And we can do all of the veterinary oversight and we can do all of the medication adjustments and stuff.
00:18:20But until we do something, and I don't know what that is, until we do something to address horses being sent to the breeding shed that are chronically unsound and shouldn't be producing, shouldn't be spreading their genes to future generations,
00:18:41then we're going to continue to have major issues like this, in my opinion.
00:18:47It's a double edged sword. I mean, the fast ones seem to be the most fragile.
00:18:54And, you know, we have proof of that with the tragic breakdowns at Saratoga last year.
00:18:59It's the quick ones, the super quick ones that, you know, have plenty of time off between races and then come back and run fast and then they're at stud.
00:19:09And they were brilliant. So people want to breed to them. I don't know what the answer is.
00:19:15Yeah, I mean, the poster child for this to me, and I've said this a lot, I maybe even said it on the podcast.
00:19:23There was a horse in the early 2000s, one of the fastest, most talented horses that I've ever been around, really.
00:19:32And his name was Badge of Silver. He was an incredibly fast racehorse.
00:19:39He had two fractured cannon bones. He had chronic foot problems.
00:19:44He had a breathing issue that required an operation. He was a bleeder.
00:19:49Bobby Frankel was so afraid to run this horse when he had him that Badge of Silver ran on New Year's Day and didn't run again until the Breeders' Cup mile.
00:20:02Because Frankel was afraid to run him in a prep race.
00:20:05And the horse finished third in the Breeders' Cup mile after not having run since New Year's Day.
00:20:11And what happened? He was retired to stud and breeders lined up to breed to him.
00:20:16I mean, I don't know how you draw the line, where you draw the line to say that horse A or Brute Mare A, Stallion A will be disqualified from going to the breeding shed.
00:20:31Where horse B would be OK. There would be obviously politics involved in that.
00:20:37I don't know how you make that determination, but you can't keep on down that road.
00:20:43It's like the clinical definition of insanity, right?
00:20:46You keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over and expect a different result.
00:20:51So, Andy, let's go to my other bugaboo here, which is the computer-assisted wager.
00:20:55And again, we could be all over the map on this, and it's not going away.
00:21:00These guys are handling billions of dollars on the races and the tracks are never going to turn them away.
00:21:05But I have heard from so many horse players that are so disgusted, especially when you get the odds.
00:21:11You know, not only are they, I think, getting less money back in their bets because the computer guys are dominating the pools.
00:21:18But, you know, we've all seen this awful scenario where the horse goes into the gate at four to one, opens up by three lengths and all of a sudden he's five to two.
00:21:26And I've said horse racing has become the only game and gambling game in the universe where you can cash a bet and be pissed off when it's over.
00:21:36Again, I don't have the magic wand for this, but I did suggest that tracks should at least do what Naira has done.
00:21:42Naira has given the regular player a little bit of a break.
00:21:45They've effectively kept these guys out of the wind pools because they won't take their bets at the last second in the wind bets.
00:21:50And they have a pick five every day that they're not allowed to bet into.
00:21:54But, you know, that's just window dressing.
00:21:56I don't you know, you said and I agree to everything you said about the sires and stallions.
00:22:02But I think I would make the same point about this.
00:22:04This isn't talked about enough.
00:22:06And horse racing isn't worried enough about this phenomenon.
00:22:10You know, Handel's down five percent this year and can be down five percent next year and five percent the year after that.
00:22:15And we're going to be looking up one day and Handel's going to be half of what it was 15 years ago.
00:22:21Yeah. I want to use an analogy here that I just used the other day with somebody.
00:22:27Everybody that knows me knows that I've got a thing for accuracy and timing.
00:22:32And I was on the GPS.
00:22:34Oh, yeah.
00:22:35You know, you know all about that. Right. Right.
00:22:37But you have racetrack managers all around the country right now.
00:22:41Let's say just almost pick any track that actually still has GPS timed final times or GPS time fractions.
00:22:49And you've got a problem because you've got inaccurate data.
00:22:52Okay. Right.
00:22:53But yet managers at all these racetracks don't seem to care.
00:22:56What they really care about is the chiclets that are out of order as the horses run around the racetrack.
00:23:02Give me a break.
00:23:04At that point, the bets have already been placed.
00:23:06You're not taking money out of somebody's pocket.
00:23:08If a chiclet shows a horse that should be third, shows him first.
00:23:12I mean, where are the it's kind of misplaced priorities here.
00:23:16And to me, it's a little bit the same thing with the CAW.
00:23:21Okay.
00:23:22Yes, it is.
00:23:24It looks bad and it's frustrating when horses leave the starting gate and then their odds plummet by the time the official odds actually go up on the tow port.
00:23:34But the big that's window to me, that's window dressing.
00:23:38That's just like skimming the surface.
00:23:41To me, the major problem there is that the CAWs are taking money out of the pockets of the regular day-to-day horse players because they are given access that ordinary horse players aren't allowed.
00:23:57They're allowed to bet directly into the pools through their computer hookups, and no one else is allowed to do that.
00:24:05We've got to find a way to level the playing field here so that in paramutual wagering, when it's me against you against you, you're not giving somebody a major advantage that's not available to anybody else.
00:24:21Yeah.
00:24:22And they're getting all the rebates too, which is huge as well.
00:24:28And you can't blame some of the tracks for taking their money because they're betting a lot of money.
00:24:34So they're going to want to take that, but they have to shut them down at some point.
00:24:38And why can't it be five minutes to post at every track across the country?
00:24:43Just do a ruling.
00:24:45And if they want to play, they can play.
00:24:47Nobody's stopping you.
00:24:49Just level it.
00:24:51It's like treating the symptoms of a disease and not treating actually what caused the underlying problem with the disease, right?
00:25:00The symptom is the big odds drop once the horses leave the starting gate, right?
00:25:05It's frustrating because you see it.
00:25:08But the underlying part of it, to me, is the diseased part that needs to be addressed.
00:25:15The TD Writer's Zone brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:25:19While we've been on hiatus here in our little podcast, the PA Breds have still been making news, of course.
00:25:25Saturday, Carmelita won her third stakes of 2023 in a gin talking at Laurel.
00:25:32She's a two-year-old daughter of Maximus Mischief, and she's now won two in a row.
00:25:36And we talked a lot about that big day at Parks on December 27th.
00:25:40Well, Aoife's Magic ran her record to a perfect four for four with a win and a $200,000 misbehavior stakes.
00:25:48And then in the wait for it stakes for Colts that same night, it was Uncle Heavy who avenged his only loss in the Pennsylvania nursery stakes by coming back with the win there.
00:25:59And a reminder, the 2024 VHBA stallion season gets underway Jan 15.
00:26:06Visit ThoroughlyBred.com for more information.
00:26:14PA Bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:26:18The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:26:24Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:26:28Caravelle in the Breeders' Cup turf sprint.
00:26:32Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state bred program in the country bar none.
00:26:37The best breeders awards and stallion awards in the country.
00:26:41Every sire hopes to have a son to follow in his footsteps.
00:26:45An impressive debut.
00:26:47For Munnings, that son is Jack Christopher.
00:26:50Jack Christopher to win the champagne.
00:26:53Unbeaten grade one winner at two.
00:26:56Dual grade one winner at three.
00:26:58And he is pouring it on here.
00:27:01It is Jack Christopher winning the grade one H. Allen Jerkins Memorial.
00:27:06Jack Christopher.
00:27:12I know you guys have been waiting for this.
00:27:14It is now time for the Coolmore Stallion of the Week.
00:27:18Who is it this week?
00:27:19Here's a hint.
00:27:20He is Munnings' best son.
00:27:22And he is a beast.
00:27:24According to Liz Crow who purchased him as a yearling.
00:27:27Never mind Liz Crow.
00:27:28Sorry Liz.
00:27:29I love you.
00:27:30But I can attest that I saw this horse before he ever ran.
00:27:34And he was about as beautiful mover as you could ever see.
00:27:38You can go to XBTV and take a look at one of his works before he ever ran.
00:27:43Jack Christopher was five for five around one turn including three grade one wins.
00:27:48And a win in the Woody Stevens by ten.
00:27:51The Allen Jerkins by a length of three quarters.
00:27:54And the champagne by two and three quarter lengths.
00:27:57All that after his aforementioned eight plus TVN rising star debut at Saratoga.
00:28:04Go back and take a look at that work before he ever ran.
00:28:07He was absolutely beautiful.
00:28:09Liz Crow actually said that Chad Brown called her right after a work at Saratoga.
00:28:14And said this horse is a real runner.
00:28:17Jack Christopher is Munning's best son.
00:28:20He'll have his first foals in 2024.
00:28:22And stands at Cornwall for a mere 40,000.
00:28:26Get on him while you can guys.
00:28:28Well it's time now for First Things First.
00:28:31After a very successful opening day on Boxing Day December 26th.
00:28:36We came back for New Year's Day.
00:28:39And there were people aplenty.
00:28:40We even celebrated New Year's on set.
00:28:43And trust me guys.
00:28:44Don't drink and work at the same time.
00:28:46I couldn't even remember what race we were on.
00:28:49We also did wish Lafitte Pinkai a very happy 77th birthday.
00:29:04That's a hell of a cake.
00:29:06Yes very nice.
00:29:07I'm pretty sure it tastes very good too.
00:29:09You're allowed to eat it now.
00:29:11Yeah I can.
00:29:17Surrounded by all of his Hall of Fame jockeys and Lafitte.
00:29:23Just a couple of questions for you.
00:29:25Happy birthday for one.
00:29:28We're just delighted to have you here.
00:29:30And how about this cake?
00:29:31You can eat it now.
00:29:32How much of this cake are you going to eat?
00:29:34I'll have a piece.
00:29:35I won't have a lot.
00:29:36But I'll have a piece.
00:29:37I still watch my weight pretty good.
00:29:39What are we weighing in at right now?
00:29:41About 26, 27, 28.
00:29:45And at 77 years old you still work out.
00:29:48Did you work out this morning?
00:29:50No I didn't.
00:29:51I took the day off today.
00:29:53But I played golf yesterday and I played the 18 holes and I shot 85.
00:29:57So I'm very happy about it.
00:29:59Wow.
00:30:00Do you ever watch these guys racing and think just one more time?
00:30:03Just one more time?
00:30:04Oh yes I do.
00:30:05And I see the quality of riders that they have now.
00:30:09They have a lot of good riders now.
00:30:11And I'm glad to see that.
00:30:13It's a lot of competition and they all want to be number one.
00:30:17So it's tough.
00:30:18How glad are you to be still here at Santa Anita,
00:30:22still celebrating your birthday at the Great Race Place?
00:30:25Well I enjoy it a lot every time I come.
00:30:28I have a good time.
00:30:29I see friends that I haven't seen in a while.
00:30:31And the only problem is I'm the worst handicapper in the world.
00:30:36And I always come and lose my money.
00:30:38Well that's okay.
00:30:39I'll join you there Lafitte.
00:30:40Let's join Lafitte in wishing him a very, very happy birthday.
00:30:44Lovely to see you here.
00:30:46Thank you very much.
00:30:57And now our resident Brit is going to have to explain Boxing Day.
00:31:02The day after Christmas.
00:31:04The best thing you can unwrap is opening day at Santa Anita.
00:31:08I do want to remind you that we will open up once more on Friday.
00:31:12Free parking.
00:31:13$3, $2 beers I think.
00:31:15And $3 margaritas.
00:31:17And it's free to get in.
00:31:18So come on out to Santa Anita.
00:31:20TD and Writer's Room is brought to you by The Green Group.
00:31:24We're not talking environment here.
00:31:26We're talking a tax accounting and advisory firm specializing in the
00:31:30thoroughbred industry and designed to save you taxes.
00:31:34And we welcome in now the Green Group guest of the week.
00:31:37It's Pat Cummings.
00:31:38He is the executive director of the National Thoroughbred Alliance,
00:31:41the group that Mike Rapoli put together.
00:31:43His announcement came in October, late October.
00:31:46And he was named Patrick to be the head man as executive director.
00:31:50National Thoroughbred Alliance, what's it all about?
00:31:53I think Mike Rapoli wants to shake things up and wants to move forward
00:31:56and get some changes done in the industry.
00:31:58And he hired Pat to be his right-hand man.
00:32:00Pat, welcome.
00:32:01And first of all, since October 26, what has happened?
00:32:05Where are you?
00:32:06Have you hired anybody?
00:32:07Bring us up to speed on what's going on with the MTA.
00:32:11Well, thanks for having me, Bill, and great to be back with you again.
00:32:14It is a work in progress, as I think a lot of people can imagine.
00:32:19The last two months have really been spent on a pretty wide-ranging
00:32:23engagement tour.
00:32:26The phone, I guess I'm learning this, and this may be the case for just about
00:32:31all of the business enterprises that Mike Rapoli is involved in,
00:32:35the phone never kind of stops ringing.
00:32:39He is a natural-born disruptor, and that is a good thing.
00:32:47But anyone in the aura of Mike Rapoli, I think, kind of gets consumed into
00:32:54this, I'm not going to say tornadic, but it's a cyclone of activity that
00:33:01involves Mike and his businesses and his offices and the people associated
00:33:05with him and other people who just want to be associated with him.
00:33:09And we didn't know each other before October, but we've certainly gotten to
00:33:14know each other quite well in the last two months or so.
00:33:17And it is – I say it's a work in progress because truly it is.
00:33:22We did not get to this sort of general position in our sport overnight.
00:33:27So we're definitely taking the time to be very thoughtful about how the
00:33:32organization comes together.
00:33:35So it is naturally light on detail to begin with, but it is – we're focusing
00:33:41on some very big-picture items at present, and I think we're going to
00:33:46continue to hear more and more about it.
00:33:49But for as much as people might not necessarily like Mike's style and the
00:33:54way he approaches certain things, he focuses on results.
00:33:58And it is very hard to argue with his professional record outside of racing.
00:34:04It's kind of hard to argue with his record inside racing too, to be fair.
00:34:07But in this new enterprise, it is – we're in essentially an engagement period.
00:34:15We are finding our way and talking to a lot of people about the big issues
00:34:21in the sport.
00:34:23One of the things we found, and I think a lot of people would agree with this,
00:34:27is if you started having a conversation with people in many different streams
00:34:32of the sport, the racing space, aftercare, the wagering side, when you're
00:34:40talking about kind of the big issues in racing, most people are going to agree
00:34:44about many of those things.
00:34:47And we've had some tremendous calls in the first couple months with different
00:34:51organizations, leaders, individuals in every space of the business.
00:34:58And what we have found is that there's a tremendous amount of commonality.
00:35:05Our interests in improving the sport are shared.
00:35:10But when you start to poke into areas that directly impact certain individuals,
00:35:17the pushback starts to come.
00:35:20And it's like, well, I agree on 90% over here, but on this 10% which directly
00:35:25affects me, maybe I'm not so interested in changing all of a sudden,
00:35:29or maybe I don't want to go about rethinking the way in which my business
00:35:33generates revenue or my members are impacted one way or another.
00:35:39So we are finding that, that there's a lot of openness to change,
00:35:43but there's a lot of potentially door-closing that goes on when you suggest
00:35:48that change might need to affect everybody in some way, shape, or form.
00:35:53And it's been a pretty revelatory two-month process so far.
00:35:58Yeah, and what you're describing is what we've talked about on this podcast
00:36:02before a lot of times, and that is there seems to be an overall attitude
00:36:07in the thoroughbred industry of wanting to protect your own fiefdom
00:36:16and not thinking about what might be good for the sport as a whole
00:36:22if it's not necessarily good for your particular enterprise.
00:36:26And that's done in so many initiatives over the decade in thoroughbred racing.
00:36:33So how do you form alliances in the National Thoroughbred Alliance?
00:36:39Well, Randy, I mean, it is kind of I think what we're trying to figure out.
00:36:44So the bricks haven't been laid yet, right?
00:36:49I think we're essentially prepping the foundation of an organization
00:36:53more so than we are building the actual structure at this point.
00:36:58That remains a work in progress.
00:36:59But I think what we could identify is that there are probably eight key areas
00:37:05where we see a future alliance needing to operate.
00:37:11And the one thing that is not an area unto itself is horse ownership and horse owners.
00:37:20And the reason we say that is because horse ownership touches
00:37:24so many different parts of the business, right?
00:37:27If you have a particularly good horse, you may end up touching
00:37:31the breeding side of the business.
00:37:32If you have a productive mare, you may end up in the breeding side.
00:37:36You may go to the sales.
00:37:39You're obviously going to be involved in racing.
00:37:41You may have to be involved in the aftercare space.
00:37:43There's a lot of different areas in which owners are going to necessarily be involved.
00:37:50But the way we see it, racing, aftercare, education, sales, wagering,
00:37:55PR marketing, breeding, and then horseman support,
00:38:00a rather generic catch-all about the way in which we help not just owners
00:38:05and trainers individually but their staffs and how they work
00:38:09and operate within our business.
00:38:11We have aligned that there are these eight key areas that all need an element of focus,
00:38:19and we have identified some opportunity areas within each of them, right?
00:38:24So, for example, I mean, where in our sport is it being directly worked on
00:38:28that field size has to grow, right?
00:38:32If we look at the racing bucket and say we want to grow field size
00:38:36in American horse racing, you could go to the Jockey Club's website
00:38:40and take a look at their statistics that they have meticulously maintained
00:38:44over the years, but you're not going to find a path or a program
00:38:49or a strategy on individually how to increase field sizes, right?
00:38:54The racing operators themselves have worked on this more individually
00:38:59than they have collectively.
00:39:01And I think we're all in agreement that there's a lot of kind of individual
00:39:07promotion and focus in this business, and there hasn't been a very collective
00:39:11focus in this business.
00:39:13Some issues cross some of these buckets, right?
00:39:17For as much as I've heard about the farce of the decision to demote Brick Ambush
00:39:26from that race at Aqueduct, I don't think there was enough talk about the fact
00:39:30that over a million dollars in bets was changed as a result of it,
00:39:34not just the $300,000 to the winning owner.
00:39:39So arguably the bettors were the most impacted in that particular incident.
00:39:44And you have this amalgamation of one singular incident that drew
00:39:49a tremendous amount of focus that involved a commission,
00:39:53the breed registry, which just happens to have a steward in the stand,
00:39:57the track operator itself, individual decision-making,
00:40:01a long-time negligence to sort of building the infrastructure of the sport,
00:40:06of being more transparent.
00:40:08In this one incident, you have this, you know,
00:40:13this essentially a stew of all of racing's long-term issues kind of laid bare
00:40:20in front of us and an unsatisfactory outcome for pretty much everybody involved.
00:40:25And that's why I think those sorts of things become lightning rods
00:40:29for the entire sport to say, look, we've got to change this.
00:40:34We have to organize it better.
00:40:36We have to organize ourselves better.
00:40:39I'm not saying, though, we have the plan to do it yet.
00:40:42I'm saying we're working on the plan to do that.
00:40:45And that is going to be a work in progress.
00:40:48And I can, you know, speaking for Mike in this sense,
00:40:51he wants to hear from more people.
00:40:53He wants to hear from more farm owners,
00:40:55from those who were involved in the stallion business, the sales business.
00:40:59There was a great letter from Boyd Browning at Fasig-Tipton,
00:41:03the TDN, just the other week about wanting to get more people involved.
00:41:08I mean, that was a good call to action.
00:41:12I think there's been a lot of calls to action in just the past couple weeks,
00:41:16seemingly in the aftermath of Mike really trying to stir the pot.
00:41:20And I think he has succeeded in doing that in the last couple weeks.
00:41:24So, like I said, work in progress.
00:41:27A lot of examples of where our sport has failed along the way.
00:41:32But the solutions aren't coming easy.
00:41:34And we need more people to kind of step forward and say,
00:41:38I really want to make this better, too.
00:41:40It's not just going to be Mike.
00:41:42Pat Cummings for office.
00:41:43Have you thought about running for office, Pat?
00:41:45I mean, you'd be a good presidential candidate, I bet.
00:41:50But joking aside, I mean, I can stir a pot,
00:41:53but my food's still going to taste like crap.
00:41:56And, I mean, at the end of the day, Mike Rapoli is going to stir the pot.
00:42:02But how do you move forward?
00:42:04You mentioned the 10% of people that are hesitant when it comes to them.
00:42:08It's just like in the rash of breakdowns that we had in Southern California.
00:42:12It was like, oh, yeah, that's your problem, not ours.
00:42:14And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, East Coast, it'll come your way eventually.
00:42:18And it did.
00:42:20So how do you get people to stick together?
00:42:23How do you manage to put everyone together?
00:42:26Because we saw Boyd Browning's letter and the light-up horse racing
00:42:30that's coming our way.
00:42:32And one thing that I've seen in Thoroughbred Racing is people
00:42:35not being able to work together.
00:42:38All of the aftercare that we have in this country, more often than not,
00:42:43you have people that are doing, trying to do the right thing,
00:42:46and fighting with each other and squabbling and not working together.
00:42:50How's Mike Rapoli's NTA going to work with the likes of light-up horse racing
00:42:55and some other ones that might pop up?
00:42:57Does he want to be the boss or does he want to merge and work with everyone?
00:43:02Well, Mike certainly does like being the boss, Zoe.
00:43:05I don't think there's any arguing about that in both his public persona
00:43:12and certainly the private success that he has had as an entrepreneur.
00:43:18I've said this a couple times before.
00:43:23A lot of people in our sport have to endure a lot of losing on a regular basis.
00:43:29And it does maybe get lost in the shuffle a little bit.
00:43:32If you're working with, say, one professional sports team,
00:43:36unless you're maybe the Detroit Pistons over the last two months,
00:43:40you're going to have a little more winning and losing,
00:43:42and it's going to be interspersed.
00:43:44But in a two-teams game, there's one winner and there's one loser.
00:43:50In horse racing, that's not necessarily always the case.
00:43:55Nick Zito, Mike talked about recently giving a good Uncle Mo,
00:44:01I think it was a two-year-old or maybe just newly turned three-year-old to Nick Zito.
00:44:06Nick was talking about how he had lost roughly, I think, 115 races in a row.
00:44:11And for someone of Nick's past status as a trainer, that's really difficult to endure.
00:44:17But a lot of our owners and trainers endure far more losing than they do winning.
00:44:23And what I think has happened across our sport for a long period of time
00:44:29is that we have essentially kind of focused a little too much on winning
00:44:38or trying to gain outside of the rails where winning and losing isn't always as clear.
00:44:45We try and make our points heard a little bit more.
00:44:47We get very pointed.
00:44:50Where a win and a loss isn't as clear outside of the rails, you just fight.
00:44:56And not enough of the focus has been on what's happening just inside of the rails.
00:45:00And I think it's something that Mike has said,
00:45:04I want to keep the competition as much inside of the rails as I can.
00:45:09But he is here to shake things up.
00:45:11And bringing me on board, I was inspired by his vision and his interest
00:45:18because I truly do believe, and this is something I've shared on the TDN podcast
00:45:22and my past visits through Thoroughbred Idea Foundation,
00:45:25that my greatest source of optimism is that I feel in many respects,
00:45:29we're not really trying as hard as we should.
00:45:32So I don't think these problems aren't solvable.
00:45:35I know Mike thinks they're solvable, too.
00:45:37They're fixable.
00:45:38The question is, do we have the people right now in place to do the fixing?
00:45:41Is that happening?
00:45:43Is that really evolving the way it should?
00:45:45And I think a lot of people in the sport, if they were texting each other,
00:45:50if those texts became public,
00:45:52I think the answer would very clearly tilt on the side of,
00:45:55no, we haven't been doing the right things.
00:45:57We haven't been evolving in the right way.
00:45:59We haven't been embracing change where we need to.
00:46:02There's a lot of opinions.
00:46:03We're all on those text threads.
00:46:05We all have those conversations with friends
00:46:08and people who have been around the sport with a very long time
00:46:11of tremendous frustration.
00:46:14That's understandable.
00:46:18But it does not have to be our sort of daily,
00:46:24we don't have to sit here and essentially be indicted daily,
00:46:27even though when you do read a lot of the stories,
00:46:30people talk about wanting more positive stories.
00:46:33I'd love to see more positive stories,
00:46:35provided the news that was coming out wasn't itself so negative,
00:46:38just by its basic kind of facts.
00:46:40There is a lot of negativity.
00:46:42There have been a lot of negative trends in our business.
00:46:45Economic indicators for racing are going to come out this week,
00:46:48maybe by the time this podcast is even published,
00:46:51and we're likely to see another year of handle down 5% or so.
00:46:56It is an ongoing effort,
00:46:59and I think we really need to see not just an actual change
00:47:04in how we go about managing our sport,
00:47:07but in how we think about change
00:47:12and finding ways to be more open to it.
00:47:15Pat, if you're a racing regulator,
00:47:18if you're a racetrack owner, if you're HIZA, you have authority.
00:47:22You have rules.
00:47:23You have things in place where you can get things done.
00:47:26I think that the question that most people have about this is,
00:47:29you know, that without the National Thoroughbred Alliance
00:47:32really having any authority, how do you get things done,
00:47:35you know, other than just hoping for the best?
00:47:38How do you cross that hurdle?
00:47:40Well, I didn't have any authority
00:47:42with Thoroughbred Idea Foundation either, Bill,
00:47:44but we inspired folks, we educated, we advocated,
00:47:48and we did help get some things done.
00:47:51And even some of those things that we did help facilitate getting done,
00:47:55they haven't always gone smoothly either.
00:47:58You know, so even when you do have that authority,
00:48:01it doesn't mean it's going to go off smoothly.
00:48:04I think as we've seen with HIZA,
00:48:06there's certainly been some things that have worked better than others
00:48:09in these first months.
00:48:11But, you know, when we set out five years ago and said,
00:48:14let's write a paper about breakage,
00:48:16it's like, oh, yeah, that's cute and it's nice and it's a problem
00:48:19and we need to fix it.
00:48:20Well, yeah, so let's put a plan together to try and work on that.
00:48:25And we did.
00:48:26We had to get our law changed here in Kentucky.
00:48:28We tried to work with some other states.
00:48:30We realized some of those doors weren't open.
00:48:33We weren't able to work in New York, for example,
00:48:36on that particular topic.
00:48:37Maybe New York will focus on it in 2024.
00:48:39They've given some indications that there's a chance to do that.
00:48:42And if we saw New York adopt penny breakage in 2024,
00:48:46that'd be a huge win that I never saw coming,
00:48:49say, in the last three or four years.
00:48:51We've seen states adopt the, or at least Oklahoma,
00:48:56adopt the Category 1 interference standard.
00:48:58And then a couple days, or a couple minutes, rather,
00:49:02before a presentation on the topic at the Arizona Symposium,
00:49:06the Jockey's Guild comes out and says, no,
00:49:08we need to stay with Category 2.
00:49:10And I'm like, where were you guys 16 months ago,
00:49:13or at any point in the last 16 months when this has gone off without
00:49:17controversy across hundreds of thoroughbred races in one particular state?
00:49:23You don't need power to actually help effect change.
00:49:29And we don't have that right now in this organization.
00:49:34Like I said, the foundation is merely being laid.
00:49:36The bricks aren't being built, or they're not elevating at this point.
00:49:42We'll get there.
00:49:43And I don't think the roadmap is very clear right now.
00:49:48And if that makes people feel uncomfortable,
00:49:50welcome to American horse racing in 2024.
00:49:53This is where we've been.
00:49:55We would all like it to be better.
00:49:59But I didn't have that luxury of having the power to just make some
00:50:04unilateral changes my past five years of work.
00:50:07But we set out.
00:50:08We studied topics.
00:50:10We had a lot of engagement that no one saw behind the scenes.
00:50:14I can assure you that's happening now between me and Mike,
00:50:18and the calls that we're having with a lot of different entities across the
00:50:22sport.
00:50:23There are a lot of discussions that if it did show up in print,
00:50:27would fascinate readers.
00:50:29I guarantee you of that.
00:50:31Industry personnel would love to know some of the conversations that are being
00:50:38had.
00:50:39But we're not there yet to kind of take that next step and to go into that.
00:50:43So it's coming.
00:50:44The work is there.
00:50:46But this is the state of the sport.
00:50:48And we need to find a way to move forward together.
00:50:51Because I sit here in Lexington, Kentucky,
00:50:54surrounded by, you know,
00:50:55tremendous horse farms and beautiful properties and new foals will be hitting
00:51:00the ground here in a week or so.
00:51:02And we have something very tangible.
00:51:05We need to protect it.
00:51:07We need to try and build it.
00:51:09And we need to make what we do have as good as we possibly can.
00:51:12I think a lot of people would agree that that hasn't really been the case
00:51:15for a long period of time.
00:51:17And we'd all like to see a change.
00:51:18I mean, we do have something tangible.
00:51:21I mean, the four of us have this intense love for thoroughbred racing,
00:51:25and for good reason.
00:51:26Right?
00:51:27But by the same token, the four of us could sit together in the same room,
00:51:30and we could come up with a pretty lengthy list of things that need to be
00:51:35changed in thoroughbred racing.
00:51:37So as you're laying this foundation, right,
00:51:39as you're putting these bricks down, where do you start?
00:51:43I mean, how do you know where to begin?
00:51:47I assume you want to start with a victory and then maybe kind of get the
00:51:51momentum rolling and all that.
00:51:52But how do you know where to begin with all this?
00:51:54Having the conversation is the starting point, Randy.
00:51:57Right?
00:51:58It is leading people into some of those uncomfortable Zooms and calls that
00:52:04we've had where, you know, and I've seen Mike do it,
00:52:08where he has this tremendous way of getting people to agree and to have that
00:52:15conversation about what is achievable and what we could possibly do and how we
00:52:20could get something done.
00:52:22And then when he shifts the topic to how do we change that particular area
00:52:27where you're involved, the clam up happens.
00:52:31Right?
00:52:32The door starts to shut.
00:52:34And I have sat there uncomfortably,
00:52:37but it's actually kind of a joy to watch because those uncomfortable
00:52:42conversations need to happen.
00:52:45And we need to start finding a way.
00:52:47We need to, you know, for example, you know, talking about, you know,
00:52:53is there a correct number for a cap on the number of mayors a stallion covers
00:53:00in a particular year?
00:53:02Is it 250?
00:53:04I think 95, 98% of participants in the industry might say 250 is probably
00:53:09the right number.
00:53:11So are we really being held back by the 2%?
00:53:14Is it 220?
00:53:15Is it 200?
00:53:16Is it 190?
00:53:18A lot of people I think realized it probably wasn't 140.
00:53:21Right?
00:53:23But then you start, you know, so increase that number,
00:53:25and you might get a varying degree of acceptance or rejection on that idea.
00:53:30You know, start having that dialogue and pushing people into understanding what
00:53:36it is we may need to be doing and how we may need to be changing.
00:53:39Again, it's not some sort of edict.
00:53:42We can come from on high and say, boom, we're changing this today, tomorrow.
00:53:47It's never going to work like that.
00:53:50We know we don't have that authority today.
00:53:53But nothing is off the table for the future.
00:53:56As I said at the beginning, Mike is a disruptor through and through.
00:54:00He is happy to continue disrupting.
00:54:03He loves the sport just as much as the four of us do,
00:54:06and thousands of other people across the country
00:54:09and even more across the world.
00:54:12And I think we all want to see the sport and survive
00:54:17and eventually on these shores thrive again.
00:54:21But how it thrives in, say, two or three years may be very different
00:54:26than what some people have in their mind today.
00:54:30Right?
00:54:31We can't just miracle another 30,000 new faults.
00:54:34Right?
00:54:35So how do we work with the existing entities to find a way to build that?
00:54:43How do we work with existing operators?
00:54:46There's a lot of things that could be done amongst existing participants
00:54:50in the sport today that could have really positive effects
00:54:54for the future longevity of the sport.
00:54:56Right?
00:54:57I think one of those that we've seen using that example, again,
00:55:00the Aqueduct example, is just transparency.
00:55:03Just be more transparent.
00:55:04And I think we saw from the New York State Gaming Commission
00:55:06that even when they tried to be transparent, they made mistakes,
00:55:11which just boggles the mind that you could be trying to fix
00:55:17or explain a situation several days after the incident took place
00:55:22and you still got it wrong.
00:55:24What a sad but telling example of kind of the state
00:55:30of how the sport has been adjudicated and regulated.
00:55:35That should be low-hanging fruit.
00:55:37There's a lot of it.
00:55:39Right?
00:55:40There is so much of it.
00:55:41It's falling on the ground all over us, and we have not picked it up.
00:55:46And we want to thank Patrick Cummings, the Executive Director
00:55:48of the newly formed National Thoroughbred Alliance.
00:55:51A lot of work ahead of you, Patrick.
00:55:52Good luck.
00:55:53Thanks, guys.
00:55:54Good luck.
00:55:55As the Green Group guest of the week one,
00:55:57Pat Cummings will receive a free one-hour tax consultation
00:56:00with Lynn Green et al. at the Green Group.
00:56:03For more information on how the Green Group can help your pocketbook
00:56:07when it comes to the tax man, you can go to www.greenco.com.
00:56:13But first, this message from the Green Group.
00:56:18Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:56:20The Green Group can help.
00:56:22There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen
00:56:25select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
00:56:28They save you money and share successful strategies.
00:56:32Over the past 40 years, the Green Group founder, Lynn Green,
00:56:35has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport,
00:56:40like Eclipse Award-winning champions Jay Walk and Wonder Wheel.
00:56:43His DJ stable competes at the highest level
00:56:46and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
00:56:49Lynn Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge,
00:56:52combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies,
00:56:55has produced positive results for his clientele
00:56:57and has made the Green Group the top-rated accounting and tax firm
00:57:00in the thoroughbred business.
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00:57:05contact us at 732-634-5100
00:57:09or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
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00:57:19With some of the fullest fields in the country
00:57:21and quality racing year-round,
00:57:24there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
00:57:27of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:57:30Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,
00:57:33as is average purse per race,
00:57:35outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:57:39Kentucky breds.
00:57:41Breed them.
00:57:42Raise them.
00:57:43Race them.
00:57:44We all win.
00:57:48Let's talk a little Kentucky right now.
00:57:51The Kentucky Thoroughbred Breeders Incentive Fund
00:57:56contributed $17.4 million to eligible breeders in 2022.
00:58:00In 2021, $15.9 million.
00:58:03Since it began in 2006,
00:58:05the KBIF has distributed more than $200 million
00:58:10to Kentucky breeders.
00:58:12And we all know already, purse money is soaring in Kentucky.
00:58:15Kentucky has the fullest fields in the country.
00:58:17As quality racing every month of the year,
00:58:20there is clearly no better time to race
00:58:22and to breed in the Bluegrass State.
00:58:26Kentucky breds.
00:58:27Breed them.
00:58:28Raise them.
00:58:29Race them.
00:58:30We all win.
00:58:31Well, quite a year for the females on the racetrack.
00:58:34Jenna Antonucci wins the Belmont Stakes.
00:58:36We want to congratulate Linda Rice,
00:58:38who was our last guest of 2023 on the TDN Writers' Room podcast.
00:58:42She set a record for most winners on a year in New York.
00:58:45And Brittany Russell, a rising star in this sport,
00:58:48was a leading trainer on the year
00:58:50at the Maryland Jockey Club Tracks,
00:58:52a first for her and a first for a female
00:58:55in the state of Maryland.
00:58:57Okay.
00:58:58Eclipse talk, guys.
00:58:59We all in agreement?
00:59:01Cody's wish is horse of the year?
00:59:03Yeah.
00:59:04Yes?
00:59:05Okay.
00:59:06I got three yeses.
00:59:07Okay.
00:59:08All right.
00:59:09You know, usually you get these categories
00:59:10and there's not a lot of debate,
00:59:11so I don't want to go over each and every category,
00:59:13but I picked out a couple where I think there is going to be,
00:59:16you know, there's no slam dunk.
00:59:19And I'll start with the Philly and Mayer Turf.
00:59:21And I violated my own rule.
00:59:24I hate voting for these European horses
00:59:27that come in for one race,
00:59:29but I did it here for Innsboro,
00:59:31who, of course, won the Breeders' Cup Philly and Mayer Turf,
00:59:33because I just didn't see anybody else
00:59:35that really, you know, jumped off the page
00:59:37or had the kind of credentials
00:59:39that, you know, would eclipse what she accomplished.
00:59:42I thought Modge was very interesting,
00:59:44having won a grade one
00:59:45and then losing by a dirty nose in the Breeders' Cup mile.
00:59:49You got Feb Rover,
00:59:51won two graded stakes races during the year.
00:59:53In Italian, won two graded stakes races,
00:59:55but really finished up the year on a negative note.
00:59:57Randy, did I get it right with Innsboro?
00:59:59I think so.
01:00:00You're right.
01:00:01Okay.
01:00:02Feb Rover and In Italian were the only two females
01:00:04that won two grade one stakes races.
01:00:06Right.
01:00:07But then Feb Rover runs 811th,
01:00:08next to last in the Philly and Mayer Turf.
01:00:10In Italian, finishes her year with three consecutive losses,
01:00:13including a fifth in the Philly and Mayer Turf.
01:00:15Really, I think it comes down to Innspiral and Modge.
01:00:19Right.
01:00:20And it just depends on,
01:00:21as you said, you violated your own rule.
01:00:23I kind of have my own rule, too,
01:00:25that I try to go by,
01:00:26and that is that if a horse comes over from Europe,
01:00:29they have to run at least twice in this country
01:00:31before I'm going to vote for them for an eclipse award.
01:00:33But I violated it here.
01:00:35I had to.
01:00:36As much as I like Modge,
01:00:38and I thought she ran an unbelievable race,
01:00:40finishing a nose behind Master of Seas,
01:00:42visually, Innspiral was just amazing,
01:00:47coming from as far back as she did to win the Philly and Mayer Turf.
01:00:50And so for the same reasons as you, Bill,
01:00:52I took Innspiral and sort of went against my own eclipse voting framework.
01:00:59And I'm with you guys.
01:01:01I wish we had a better packet to say they have to run three times,
01:01:07because otherwise what do you do?
01:01:09You don't vote for Innspiral,
01:01:11but you're rewarding mediocrity.
01:01:13She was the best of them.
01:01:15So I hate to do it,
01:01:17but I went Innspiral, and you're wrong.
01:01:19There were two grade one winners on the grass.
01:01:22Anaset just took down the grade one.
01:01:25Restricted to three-year-olds, though.
01:01:27Okay.
01:01:28She's a three-year-old.
01:01:29Good point.
01:01:30Yeah.
01:01:31And that's why this thing sometimes sucks,
01:01:34because you don't have the latest ones.
01:01:37You have to be privy and not go by what they send you.
01:01:41So yes, Anaset is a dual grade one winner.
01:01:46Just food for thought, I actually am a Sovereign Award voter as well.
01:01:50I was added to the list this year.
01:01:52That's the Canadian version of Eclipse Awards.
01:01:54And their rule is if a horse did not run three times in Canada during the calendar year,
01:01:59they're not eligible.
01:02:00And that's how it should be.
01:02:02Yeah.
01:02:03If they want to put that rule in, I'm fine with it.
01:02:06But without the rule, where do you go?
01:02:08Yeah, you're still rewarding mediocrity.
01:02:10Yeah.
01:02:11Okay.
01:02:12I've got one for you.
01:02:13It's a tough call.
01:02:15All right.
01:02:16How about the Philly and Mayer Sprint?
01:02:17Is Goodnight Olive completely obvious?
01:02:20She wins the Breeders' Cup Philly and Mayer Sprint.
01:02:23But Randy Ekozulu didn't quite have the body of work that she did.
01:02:28But she was, to make a case,
01:02:30she was the fastest horse to run during the year.
01:02:32I mean, if you just want to go on buyer numbers,
01:02:36I mean, she soars towers over this field.
01:02:38But I went with Goodnight Olive.
01:02:40Not me.
01:02:41No, I'm Ekozulu all the way.
01:02:44I mean, I can't be convinced that Ekozulu could have held off elite power
01:02:53if she had stayed sound and run against males in the Breeders' Cup Sprint,
01:02:57as Steve Asmussen was intending, I think.
01:02:59But I also am not convinced that elite power could have run her down.
01:03:03Look, Ekozulu worked with Goodnight quite a few times.
01:03:09And Goodnight was absolutely no match for Ekozulu in terms of speed.
01:03:15So when you look at elite power versus –
01:03:19Ekozulu was the fastest female racehorse in the country.
01:03:22And, yes, her career was abbreviated because of her unfortunate injury.
01:03:28But they ran against each other one time, Goodnight Olive and Ekozulu.
01:03:32And Ekozulu scored a resounding victory in which Goodnight Olive
01:03:38ran the best race of her career based on all the various speed figures.
01:03:43So I'm not going to penalize Ekozulu for what happened to her.
01:03:47The way she handled Goodnight Olive in their only matchup was good enough for me.
01:03:52I actually put Goodnight Olive on top. Ekozulu underneath.
01:03:57Okay.
01:03:58I haven't sent in yet.
01:03:59Randy, you made a convincing case. I might want my ballot back.
01:04:04One more up to the mark male turf.
01:04:07I think so because of his body of work.
01:04:09But, again, the people that don't believe, like Randy and I do,
01:04:14that a horse needs to run a couple of times in the U.S.
01:04:17to really merit serious consideration for an Eclipse Award
01:04:20but Auguste Rodin, I know people are voting for him as well.
01:04:24I mean, he was wonderful. He was brilliant.
01:04:26But up to the mark, won three grade ones, ran well in the Breeders' Cup turf
01:04:32and Auguste Rodin, the one race in the U.S.
01:04:36And I don't think he should get any credit for what he did in Europe.
01:04:38But where'd you go there, Randy?
01:04:40I went up to the mark because here, I mean,
01:04:43it's a little easier to stay with our convictions
01:04:47about how often a horse should run in the United States to be an Eclipse Award winner.
01:04:51And the reason why it's easier, I think, in this case,
01:04:53is because only three-quarters of the length separated the two horses at the finish.
01:04:57And Auguste Rodin, you can argue, won because of his trip,
01:05:01because he got through along the inside and up to the mark had more of an overland route.
01:05:06And I can very easily look at that and say that if the roles were reversed
01:05:11or even if they had the same trip, that up to the mark would have beaten Auguste Rodin.
01:05:16Maybe I'm wrong because Auguste Rodin had some early trouble in the race.
01:05:20But it's easier for me in this case.
01:05:23I think up to the mark has more credentials than any of the female turf horses
01:05:30underneath in spiral who had more American form.
01:05:35Up to the mark for me as well.
01:05:37Trainer, anyone give a nod to Bill Mott?
01:05:40Yeah, I voted for him.
01:05:42Three on top?
01:05:43He had three champions, three Breeders' Cup winners.
01:05:46His winning percentage was fairly low.
01:05:49I think it was only 15% on the year.
01:05:51But what he accomplished on Breeders' Cup Day and to train three Eclipse Award winners,
01:05:55he'll have Just FYI, Cody's Wish, and Elite Power.
01:05:59Yeah, I thought that was a pretty safe call.
01:06:02Agreed.
01:06:03Randy?
01:06:04Agreed.
01:06:05Agreed.
01:06:06All right.
01:06:07Well, there, we're in agreement, except Randy took us to school on that.
01:06:10Zulu made absolutely some good points.
01:06:13Those are some of our thoughts on the Eclipse Awards.
01:06:15I think they'll be announced early on in January.
01:06:18We'll find out exactly who all the winners are.
01:06:21It'll be interesting to see if Good Night Olive wins over Echo Zulu.
01:06:24I think we're in agreement on just about everything else, guys.
01:06:27The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:06:30This work is especially for Randy, who is the number one fan of Adair Manor.
01:06:36She's back on the work tab, Randy.
01:06:38And for the very first time, yay, since finishing seventh
01:06:41in the Breeders' Cup Disc Staff, she worked four furlongs in 49.
01:06:47Randy could probably read this off better than me.
01:06:49Before that race, Adair Manor had reeled off six straight wins,
01:06:53five of them carrying Randy Moss, all of them graded stakes,
01:06:57including the grade one Clement Hirsch stakes.
01:06:59Trainer Bob Baffert said he has not yet picked out a race
01:07:02for Adair Manor's 2024 return.
01:07:05He is waiting on a phone call from Randy Moss.
01:07:08We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:07:13Where do you think she's going to go, Randy?
01:07:15She's staying in training. That's the big news.
01:07:17Right.
01:07:18That's great.
01:07:19She'll run in the Apple Blossom. I can promise you that.
01:07:21All right. Good. Good to know.
01:07:35♪♪♪
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01:08:12and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
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01:08:21Visit westpointtv.com.
01:08:24The TD and Writers' Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:08:31into the world of instant camaraderie because of these kinds of results.
01:08:35West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:08:37Closed out the year with a pair of impressive two-year-old winners,
01:08:39both by constitution, okay?
01:08:42And you talk about something to look forward to in 2024.
01:08:45First, the Sugar Bowl Stakes at the Fairgrounds.
01:08:47That's December 23rd, a sprint.
01:08:49Legalize won it, drawing away at the end by two and three-quarters lengths.
01:08:53Legalize is now two for three lifetime.
01:08:55And then December 30th, Gulfstream Park.
01:08:58First race on that Saturday card.
01:09:00Todd Pletcher-trained Born Noble made his career debut,
01:09:04was green as grass coming through the lane,
01:09:07and yet won that seven-foot-long race by more than five lengths,
01:09:10buyer's speed figure 92.
01:09:13Something to really look forward to for Born Noble down in Florida.
01:09:17He was a $725,000 September yearling at Keeneland,
01:09:21and you know they have high hopes for Born Noble.
01:09:25Interested in joining a West Point partnership to learn more?
01:09:28Visit westpointtb, as in thoroughbred, .com.
01:09:39That's a wrap on our first show of 2024.
01:09:41I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin,
01:09:44our Green Group Guest of the Week, Pat Cummings,
01:09:46our producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca,
01:09:49and our editors, Aaliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:09:52And how's Lucy doing back there, Randy?
01:09:54Hey, she is chill as ever.
01:09:56She's celebrating a new year.
01:09:58She looks excited, doesn't she?
01:10:00Thanks, guys. Talk to you next week.
01:10:02Cheers.