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Transcript
00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning.
00:00:23It's 9-0-8, Wednesday, July 20th.
00:00:27This is the TDN Writer's Room, presented by Keeneland.
00:00:30My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:31I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News, and guys, last night, I went to
00:00:34a rock climbing gym for the first time.
00:00:37Next thing to check off my bucket list, playing pickleball with John and Bill and Sue.
00:00:42We look forward to that.
00:00:43I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:46Joe, you're much too young to play pickleball.
00:00:50Jonathan Green, General Manager of TJ Stable.
00:00:52I'm glad to be back with my three omegas.
00:00:55Yeah, we missed you last week.
00:00:57We could have had a whole bit on that.
00:00:59I know.
00:01:00Well, we're still working on that.
00:01:01We're still trying to get sponsored by one of the chains around here.
00:01:05So we'll get there.
00:01:06We'll get there.
00:01:07We'll get sponsored by Cholula or Tabasco or something like that.
00:01:10I think that would be right up the alley for the three omegas.
00:01:14The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland this November.
00:01:17Keeneland is the place to be as the home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships, followed
00:01:21directly by the November Breeding Stock Sale.
00:01:24Entry deadline for Keeneland November is August 1st, so it's coming right up.
00:01:28Learn more at november.keeneland.com.
00:01:30Okay, so first week of Saratoga is in the books.
00:01:35It was a beautiful, beautiful week weather-wise, fan participation-wise, handle-wise.
00:01:40We talked to Andy Serling yesterday about how the handle keeps going up at Saratoga
00:01:45no matter what.
00:01:46It's just a rocket ship that keeps on going.
00:01:49Every time you think it's topped out, it just gets better and better.
00:01:53On the racetrack, we had a couple of nice two-year-old performances.
00:01:56I thought in the Sanford, Mo's strike was very impressive.
00:02:00He kind of rebroke in that race in the last eighth of a mile.
00:02:02It looked like there was going to be a stretch battle the whole way, and he found another
00:02:06gear late.
00:02:08The biggest race of the weekend in terms of grades was the grade one, Diana Stakes.
00:02:12In Italian, popped out to the front, set super fast fractions, and kept going.
00:02:16I thought that race, honestly, was more about who didn't run well.
00:02:20Now, Ruggier has run two pretty big clunkers in a row.
00:02:23She was a group one winner last year in France, came over, switched to Chad Brown's barn.
00:02:28A lot of high expectations, I thought, for her this year.
00:02:31She started her year with a really nice win in the bogey.
00:02:34The last two races, she's gotten good setups and just has not answered the bell.
00:02:38It's funny, Chad wins the race, and I'm like, there were three other Chad horses in the
00:02:43race where they were kind of disappointed, guys.
00:02:47Chad obviously runs one, two, three, four, maybe they'll name that race after him at
00:02:52some point.
00:02:53What stood out to you guys from the weekend?
00:02:54Well, I mean, sometimes I think we take Chad Brown for granted.
00:02:58I mean, he runs one, two, three, four in a grade one stakes race.
00:03:02Oh, it's Phillies and Mayors on the turf in New York.
00:03:04Of course, Chad ran one, two, three, four.
00:03:06Wins the race for the seventh time, and I agree with you, Joe, I gave Ruggier another
00:03:10chance and she certainly didn't justify my having some confidence in her.
00:03:15But you look at it, it wasn't upset even though Chad won because he upset his other horses.
00:03:21In Italian of the four horses was by far the longest shot on the board at eight to one.
00:03:26And you know, she ran a sensational race.
00:03:28I don't know necessarily where this came from because look at these fractions, 22 and two,
00:03:3345 and four, 109 and two, and then sets a new course record of 145.06.
00:03:40She set the kind of pace, like you said, it should have set it up for not only Ruggier,
00:03:45but for Bleeker Street, who also kind of was a little bit blah in there as well, finishing
00:03:49fourth and nobody made up any ground on her coming in late.
00:03:54So what's the over-under on how many horses Chad Brown, because Rico Glory is better than
00:03:58any of these horses.
00:04:00What is the over-under and how many horses he has in the Philly and Mayor Breeders' Cup
00:04:04turf?
00:04:05I got to say the over-under about six and a half at this point.
00:04:07So we'll see on that.
00:04:08And I just want to give a shout out to Mike Jerseybred, great navigator, terrific second
00:04:13place finish in the Sanford Stakes.
00:04:15And wouldn't it be cool if this next race was in the hopeful 30 years after Great Navigator
00:04:22won the hopeful.
00:04:23But you know, the Jerseybred program has been having a tough time because of all the competitive
00:04:28disadvantages they have with the other states.
00:04:31And it's just a lot of fun to see Jerseybred shine.
00:04:34This is a good horse, by the way.
00:04:36And just to piggyback, Bill, what you were saying about Great Navigator, it's also a
00:04:39great story that Eddie Owens is the trainer because he was an assistant trainer for decades.
00:04:46And finally, when John Massa is no longer training, you know, Eddie had the opportunity
00:04:53to start training for Hollycrest Farm.
00:04:55And then he's campaigning a wonderful young horse like Great Navigator.
00:05:00And Joe, you hit the nail on the head.
00:05:02The exact term that I used for most strike was rebroke.
00:05:06Bleaker Street, I think, you know, was the odds on favorite, just kind of threw him in
00:05:09a clunker as the finishing third in that race and really didn't pick it up.
00:05:14So you have to wonder about some of these older mares, are they starting to hit the
00:05:18end of the road at this point?
00:05:19Are they just not peaking right now because it's only, you know, for God's sake, it's
00:05:23only July and these horses should really be peaking in October, November, you know, for
00:05:27the big money.
00:05:28We'll find out how that how that plays out down the road.
00:05:32The other interesting race that I thought that I wanted to comment on was the quick
00:05:36call because you have a horse like Big Invasion, a declaration of war out of a Kerland mare
00:05:41that wins coming off the pace and wins very impressively as the odds on favorite and runs
00:05:46a 100 buyer number, which, you know, which is really, you know, that's stout.
00:05:50I mean, that's really, really good, especially this time of year.
00:05:54So Big Invasion, that three year old that is really rounding into form, back to back
00:05:58wins now. And I'd be curious to see how that horse is going to be campaigned going forward.
00:06:03And probably you'll see him run against the olders in the Breeders' Cup turf sprint, I
00:06:08would think.
00:06:09Yeah, no, he's a really nice horse.
00:06:11A hundred buyer for a three year old turf sprinter in July, not something you generally
00:06:15see. You know, we saw Golden Pal run a big race last year, that summer at Saratoga.
00:06:19But that's like that's the last one I can remember who ran that kind of a figure.
00:06:23And, you know, he's a little bit different because he's he's a he's a closer.
00:06:27He's a come from behind horse, whereas I think it's a little bit easier sometimes just to
00:06:31pop out to the front and just bury those other horses and bottom out the field.
00:06:35Whereas Big Invasion theoretically needs a little bit of a setup.
00:06:38You know, he didn't he didn't get a great setup on Sunday, but he still produced that big,
00:06:43big stretch run. I think Joel Rosario honestly fits him perfectly in terms of his riding
00:06:48style. There's a couple of other things I wanted results I wanted to mention before we move
00:06:53on. You know, we'll get to it in the Coolmore segment, I'm sure.
00:06:56But Justify as first American stakes winner with just Cindy and the Skylarville on opening
00:07:01day, didn't get a huge figure.
00:07:03But, you know, she's she looks like a nice horse for Eddie Keneally.
00:07:06Tarabi looked like a pretty good horse, I thought, for Cherie DeVoe.
00:07:10She was the horse that ran second in the spinaway last year and kind of been on the bench
00:07:15for a little bit, came back with a second at Churchill Downs.
00:07:19You know, that was the first race out of the Wilton, the Wilson shoe at the Wilton Stakes,
00:07:23which seems to be a little bit unnecessarily confusing for the first race out of that
00:07:28shoot. But, you know, it looked it looked OK.
00:07:30You know, a lot of people are kind of hesitant to bet those races because they don't know
00:07:33how things are going to sort themselves out heading around that first term.
00:07:36But it looked good. You know, I think as long as the riders take care of each other and
00:07:39we'll get to something about that in a little bit, I think it'll be fine.
00:07:43You know, I know there were some issues with the shoot back in the day that Bill has
00:07:47brought up, but I thought it looked it looked pretty good.
00:07:50And the race played out, I think, in a fair way.
00:07:53But yeah, I can't forget Chubb Wagon winning the Albany Stakes at Laurel.
00:07:59Come on. I almost forgot.
00:08:01How could you guys let that happen?
00:08:02Got a 91 buyer, so she keeps racking up the W's.
00:08:06But yeah, other than that, it was in terms of stakes action, it was a kind of like relatively
00:08:12slow weekend other than the Saratoga stuff.
00:08:14Just looking at City Man, got a 103 buyer and upsetting the Forbidden Apple.
00:08:18That was a pretty good field.
00:08:19But I think the action is going to heat up as we go along here.
00:08:22We've got the Haskell coming up.
00:08:24We'll talk about that in the weekend preview.
00:08:26But I wanted to mention this just in kind of a weekend review sense that Kittens Joy
00:08:31unfortunately passed away on Friday and he was just a spectacular horse, spectacular
00:08:36racehorse, spectacular stallion.
00:08:38And I just thought it was it was kind of interesting and I don't know, like something
00:08:43about fate and how, you know, Sarah Ramsey died like a month ago.
00:08:46And then Kittens Joy, the most famous horse named after her, dies a month later.
00:08:51He was 21 years old.
00:08:53He was an outstanding horse on the track.
00:08:57I think his accomplishments, you know, superseded that as a stallion because he became one of
00:09:02the top turf sires in the world, which is not easy to do as an American based turf sire,
00:09:07and especially one that didn't, you know, he wasn't like blue blood, you know, he was
00:09:11bred OK, but he wasn't, you know, he wasn't bred to be a superstar stallion, but he became
00:09:17that, you know, the race I'll always remember him for, and I posted it on Twitter, was the
00:09:21Joe Hirsch. And in the 2004 Joe Hirsch, he faced Elders, was the greatest Joe Hirsch
00:09:26field ever. But no, but go watch that race.
00:09:29Watch his turn of foot.
00:09:30Johnny Velasquez was just sitting on him the whole way, let him go like outside the 8th
00:09:34pole, and he just rocketed away from those horses.
00:09:37That was when I was like, wow, this is a special, special animal.
00:09:41You know, a lot of people were saying at the time that he was the best three year old
00:09:43turfer since Manila.
00:09:44You know, Manila is a little bit before my time, but I haven't seen a three year old
00:09:48turfer as good as Kitten's Joy since then.
00:09:51He's the best one still.
00:09:52Almost 20 years later, I was heartbroken when he lost in the Breeders' Cup turf to
00:09:57Better Talk Now, but he was he was just an outstanding animal on the racetrack, off the
00:10:02racetrack. And just want to send condolences to people at Hillandale who cared for him
00:10:07and loved him because he was he was phenomenal.
00:10:09I don't know if you guys have any memories or any thoughts about him.
00:10:13But he was he was one of those horses that that made an impact over decades, over
00:10:18decades on the racetrack, in the stallion shed.
00:10:20John, John, you seem to be a guy who, you know, you appreciate a good turf horse.
00:10:24No, like he must he must have meant something to you.
00:10:27Yeah, no question about it.
00:10:28You know, you have a horse like that that just continually is consistent and has good
00:10:33solid horses. And it's interesting because this is he was a stallion that, you know,
00:10:40that belied the commercial ability of stallions.
00:10:44And basically what I mean is if you saw a Kitten's Joy yearling out there, it wasn't
00:10:50going to wow you.
00:10:51You weren't going to be like, who's that horse?
00:10:53Because most of them were kind of average looking.
00:10:55They they had a very unique, you know, set of back legs that you had to understand were
00:11:01kind of there were a Kitten's Joy legs, basically.
00:11:04So if you didn't know who Kitten's Joy was, you'd immediately cross the horse off your
00:11:08list because, you know, because of the confirmation flaw.
00:11:11But because of that confirmation, some people would say flaw.
00:11:15I would say strength for turf racing.
00:11:18It definitely added value and added an extra push for a lot of these horses that are on
00:11:23the turf, especially kind of a softer yielding turf course.
00:11:25I think that's why the Kitten's Joy really did so well here in the States.
00:11:31But he wasn't a commercial success.
00:11:32It wasn't like anybody was running out to try to go pick up as many Kitten's Joys as
00:11:37you could. As a matter of fact, he was an undervalued, underappreciated stallion for a
00:11:41number of years during his career.
00:11:44And we actually bought a mare in full to him a couple of years ago because of that.
00:11:50We wouldn't have been able to afford a mare like that.
00:11:52Her name is Night of Thunder.
00:11:53And because she was in full the Kitten's Joy, we actually could could afford to buy her
00:11:58because a lot of people were like, I don't want to buy that horse because the resulting
00:12:02fall is going to be a turf horse.
00:12:03Well, that resulting fall actually is going to be racing for us.
00:12:06And the day that Kitten's Joy died, ironically enough, we put in for the name and her name
00:12:11is Kitten.
00:12:12So we actually have a Kitten, we have a yearling named Kitten.
00:12:17It's a Kitten's Joy filly that actually Joe Orsino will be training for us and hopefully
00:12:21next year. But Kitten's Joy was a horse that I think was underappreciated and
00:12:27undervalued, especially here in the States.
00:12:29But Joe, as you mentioned, he just threw runners and very consistent, good turf horses.
00:12:34And just a little bit ahead of his time, if the safety measures and the
00:12:39influence of turf racing that's coming about now had come about 10 years
00:12:45ago, I think we'd be holding Kitten's Joy in a very different light.
00:12:49And he would be one of the top stallions in the country and recognized as such.
00:12:54And I think right now he's just he was just like you, Bill Finley, just a little bit ahead
00:12:58of his time. Yeah, I was going to say the same thing, honestly, ahead of his time now
00:13:02with the gradual shift towards turf racing in America, I think that
00:13:08his his legacy is going to be even better after he died than it necessarily
00:13:13was while he was still producing horses.
00:13:16And especially, you know, we used to make fun of Ken Ramsey for naming all of his horses
00:13:20Kitten, Kitten, Kitten. That's going to that's going to pay off in terms of preserving
00:13:24Kitten's Joy's legacy because you're going to have all these mayors all across the
00:13:27country who are going to be producing good turf horses by Kitten's Joy.
00:13:31And I think, you know, I look forward to his legacy continuing to build as turf racing
00:13:35becomes more and more of a hot ticket in America.
00:13:38And John, John, you put it well ahead of his time for sure.
00:13:42And I just I don't want people to forget what a great racehorse he was, too.
00:13:45He ran 14 times.
00:13:46He was first or second in 13 of those starts.
00:13:49It was a multimillionaire horse and he just he just could do it all.
00:13:52So so we'll definitely miss Kitten's Joy.
00:13:56The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:13:58Keeneland's September grads have already claimed two graded stakes at the Saratoga
00:14:01Meet with Grade 3 Skylarville winner Just Cindy and Grade 3 Quick Call winner Big Invasion.
00:14:06In the latest edition of the Breeders Spotlight series presented by Keeneland, our buddy Chris
00:14:10McGrath talks to Airdrie's Brett Jones about the mating that produces Andan, the 50th
00:14:15anniversary of Airdrie's foundation and the living legacy that is Airdrie founder
00:14:19Vernon Jones. It's called Making New Memories, Airdrie at 50.
00:14:23You can find it on our TDN website.
00:14:25John, you know, I assume you've worked with the Airdrie consignment or stallion division.
00:14:30Can you just talk a little bit about how respected that that family is in the business?
00:14:34Oh, no question. When we first started in the business, you know, Brary Jones was the
00:14:37man. He was the guy. He was the governor of Kentucky.
00:14:40He had one of the best farms and breeding farms in the country.
00:14:43And and he was just a really interesting guy to talk to and just listen to, because
00:14:48obviously he had so many good stories about politics and about horse racing and about
00:14:52Kentucky history.
00:14:54It was it was like must see TV when whenever Brary was was at the sales and he always
00:14:58brought some really good horses, homebreds primarily to to the sales.
00:15:03And I had a chance during the July sale to talk to Brett about, you know, what's going on
00:15:08at Airdrie and the fact that they had two homebreds in the Kentucky Derby this year that
00:15:11very few of us remember. But he did have, you know, it's unusual to have one homebred in the
00:15:16Derby, but he actually had two this year.
00:15:19And, you know, it's just interesting how from a family line, you know, we talk about
00:15:24horses, family lines and a son of this and a daughter of that and how they do.
00:15:27But, you know, Airdrie is passing on from one generation to the next.
00:15:31And it really seems like from a business model standpoint, they're doing quite, quite well.
00:15:35We actually bought a preservationist called at the at the new Sire showcase.
00:15:42And I actually had to look up to see who preservationist was.
00:15:45But it's a prototypical Airdrie kind of horse, you know, good, solid grade to grade one
00:15:50place horse, well bred and being bred to some good, good mares.
00:15:56And they brought a couple of them to the new Sire showcase and they sold quite well again
00:16:01for a turf family.
00:16:03So I think Airdrie is in very good hands.
00:16:05You know, I'm really looking forward to seeing that piece, actually, because I haven't seen
00:16:09it yet. But I know that they're the Jones family is good quality people and they are
00:16:14their lifers in the business.
00:16:15They're ones that, you know, that you can look at any given big race and there's an
00:16:20Airdrie connection to it.
00:16:22Yep. Definitely notice the same thing.
00:16:24Definitely go check out Chris's story and that Keeneland Breeders Spotlight series
00:16:28overall is definitely worth checking out and reading.
00:16:31So we'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:16:34When the thoroughbred world descends upon Lexington this November, there is one place
00:16:40you need to be, the place where history comes alive with every championship victory.
00:16:45The place where the future is built with the fall of a gap, the place that exists to be
00:16:54the heart of this industry, the center of it all.
00:16:58Home to the November breeding stock sale and the 2022 Breeders' Cup.
00:17:03Keeneland.
00:17:05Spite's Town.
00:17:08Munnings.
00:17:12Echo Town.
00:17:13Down, down, down, down.
00:17:15It's Echo Town for Joe Talamot and Echo Town breaks the wave.
00:17:20And Echo Town is drawing away in the stretch.
00:17:23Echo Town wins the Alan Turkin stakes.
00:17:26A sire line so prolific it repeats itself.
00:17:30Echo Town.
00:17:35The CDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:17:38First Crop Sire, Mendelson, had his first U.S.
00:17:40winner over the weekend with Fade the Noise, who broke his maiden by six lengths at Ellis
00:17:44Park on Saturday for Mike Maker.
00:17:46Definitely a promising looking horse.
00:17:48Steak's winner is for Ashford Sires over the weekend include Sanford winner, Moe
00:17:52Strike, who we mentioned in the open, the son of Uncle Moe.
00:17:55In July alone, Uncle Moe has had four stakes winners and he already has 10 stakes winners
00:18:00total for 2022.
00:18:01Four this month is pretty impressive.
00:18:03I keep thinking that Uncle Moe can't top himself.
00:18:06He still manages to do it every single year.
00:18:08And of course, as we mentioned in the first segment, Justify, Just Cindy became his first
00:18:13American stakes winner following up the group two winner that he had in Ireland, who looks
00:18:17very nice. Justify is now tied with stud mate Uncle Moe atop the leading two year old Sires
00:18:22list, with both stallions having two stakes winners and from 10 runners in 2022, he already
00:18:27has four winners. Great start to Justify's stallion career, as you would expect, as a
00:18:31Triple Crown winner, as a son of Scat Daddy.
00:18:34Go see him and the rest of the Ashford roster.
00:18:37All right, so we usually have our traders behaving badly segment with the cops theme in the
00:18:40background, but this time we'll we'll crunch them together and have jockeys and traders
00:18:45behaving badly in this segment.
00:18:46We're going to start with the drama between Paco Lopez and Nick Juarez.
00:18:51Bill wrote a great story last week about this.
00:18:54There was a race on July 1st.
00:18:56I don't know if we have the video or not, but it was a race on July 1st, the seventh race at
00:19:00Monmouth. Paco Lopez drifted out on his horse into Nick Juarez's path.
00:19:05Did not look over his shoulder one time to see if he had clearance.
00:19:09Nick Juarez's horse stumbled amazingly, did not go down.
00:19:13I mean, it just shows you the athleticism of these horses that they can clip and, you know,
00:19:17steady and almost go down and still manage to stay on their feet.
00:19:21So it could have been really, really bad.
00:19:22And this is a thing that Paco Lopez is famous for.
00:19:25And then after the race, Nick Juarez went and fought him in the jockey's room.
00:19:30And, you know, he gave I'll let Bill talk about it, but he gave some great quotes to Bill
00:19:34about how what he had been through, like the past 36 hours he had been to Sweden and back.
00:19:39We was like the airlines had lost his bag and all this stuff.
00:19:42And he had basically just held his baby girl for the first time.
00:19:46And he comes back and Paco Lopez does something that could almost kill him and supposedly
00:19:49smirked at him afterwards.
00:19:51So I, you know, I empathize with with his anger.
00:19:53But Bill, what did you think talking to Nick about that for that story?
00:19:56I mean, Nick said things that I think all jockeys who ride against Paco probably think and,
00:20:02you know, wasn't afraid to say.
00:20:03I mean, here's kind of the money quote of Paco.
00:20:06He's careless and someone has no regard for his fellow rider.
00:20:10You know, and that's the, you know, the the the the issue here.
00:20:14And we've talked about this before.
00:20:16And unfortunately, we'll probably talk about it again.
00:20:18But, you know, I know, Joe, you're kind of chomping the bit to say some things here.
00:20:22And I'm sure John is as well.
00:20:24You know, the bigger story is, you know, what are the stewards of various racetracks doing to
00:20:30deter Paco from doing this?
00:20:32And since it just keeps happening over and over and over again, you would have the answer
00:20:36would have to be whatever they're doing is not enough.
00:20:38Now, you know, they gave Paco a five day suspension.
00:20:41They actually gave Juarez eight days suspension for being the aggressor in the fight against
00:20:46Paco. And to his credit, I think where I said, I'm fine with that.
00:20:50I deserved it.
00:20:52There's no he talked about the travel and how frazzled he was, didn't get a lot of sleep and
00:20:56all that. But he said there's no excuse for something like that.
00:20:59And, you know, that's a stand up thing to say and do.
00:21:02So then Paco is only going to get the five days.
00:21:05But, you know, the question is, does this just keep happening where, you know, he comes
00:21:09back and then in December we'll be talking about the suspension that Gulfstream gave him.
00:21:14Their stewards down there have been harder on him than anybody else.
00:21:17I mean, they pounded him pretty good.
00:21:20Is five days enough for Mammoth?
00:21:21I mean, I think you could surely say no.
00:21:24And, you know, it's if you look at it in the micro, the one incident.
00:21:28Yeah, five days would be what you would give to John John Doe, the jockey who did
00:21:34something like this. But, you know, do you have to look at this as the bigger picture?
00:21:38Is it more than five days because he's a repeat offender?
00:21:41Clearly, the Mammoth stewards didn't do that here.
00:21:44Should stewards at Mammoth or any place else that he rides look at it as a bigger
00:21:49picture? I think you can make a good case.
00:21:51They should. It's a it's a travesty is what it is, because we've spoken ad nauseum about
00:21:58Paco's recklessness and mostly me.
00:22:01I mean, you got you guys have also jumped in on it also.
00:22:03But I know you make fun of me about about how tough I am on Paco.
00:22:07I'm tough on him because he's reckless.
00:22:08He's going to get somebody killed and or paralyzed or hurt.
00:22:12And I know that jockeys, you know, assume the risk when they get on horseback and
00:22:17they're on a 1100 pound animal and they're going 35 miles an hour with, you know, a
00:22:21number of other horses all around them.
00:22:23That's the job. That's what they do.
00:22:25And they get when they win, they get paid quite well.
00:22:27But they are taking their lives in their hands every single time.
00:22:30And that's just on their own, you know, a horse that they have to worry about when you
00:22:35have somebody like like Paco Lopez, who not only rides his own horse, but two other
00:22:38horses in the race also, because he's he's trying to, you know, pinch horses off at the
00:22:43rail or pin them down or make them go wide.
00:22:47And he's just has a history of being very reckless.
00:22:49And it shows in the number of suspensions that he's received and not only number of
00:22:54suspensions, but also from various jurisdictions.
00:22:57So it's not just a one off.
00:22:58It's not just that he only does this at moment or he only does this in Florida.
00:23:01It's all over the place.
00:23:03And and it's now no longer a one off.
00:23:06It's a pattern. And when it's a pattern of recklessness, you have to wonder, you know,
00:23:09what's going on through his head as far as, you know, why he's managing the rate of his
00:23:15racehorse and trying to put people in precarious positions.
00:23:19And I know he's trying to do it to be aggressive.
00:23:20And we all talk about you want to have an aggressive rider because, you know, you want
00:23:25your horse to to be hit the hole first.
00:23:27You want your horse to be in front and control the race.
00:23:29There's all kinds of reasons why you want to have a more proactive, you know, a pilot
00:23:34on your horse. But you don't want him to be reckless.
00:23:36You don't want him to be to the point where he's going to hurt himself or even, you
00:23:40know, on a minor rationale, you don't want to win a race and then find out you get
00:23:44taken down because the jockey did something that was aggressive and illegal, you
00:23:50know, as far as the races go.
00:23:52So I'm, again, disappointed at Monmouth for not throwing the book at him because the
00:23:58bill, as you so eloquently put it, it's a he's a repeat offender.
00:24:01It's not a one off.
00:24:02It's not a situation where you say, ah, you know, the guy had a bad race or a bad day
00:24:06or or, you know, or this doesn't happen that often.
00:24:09It's it's a pattern.
00:24:11It's habitual. And, you know, what is it going to take in racing for somebody to say to
00:24:18you need a bigger timeout or you need to be gone?
00:24:22Is it going to be that somebody's going to get paralyzed?
00:24:24Somebody's going to get killed.
00:24:25A horse is going to get hurt and or and or die.
00:24:28You know, what is the standard at this point?
00:24:30Because it was pretty egregious in my mind as far as this race.
00:24:34And I think that the other takeaway I have from all this is that, you know, I didn't
00:24:38know Nick Juarez that well.
00:24:39He's ridden horses for us before.
00:24:41But what a stand up guy.
00:24:42I mean, here's a guy who just had a baby and basically is saying, like, you know, that
00:24:48is the most important thing to me is holding my child and that Paco, because of his
00:24:52recklessness, is taking that away from me and not only taking it away from me, but then
00:24:56like gave me a look like, yeah, you deserve that, you know, so big like that, that to
00:25:01me, if that was me, I would have seen red and and, you know, who knows what would have
00:25:05happened. I think Nick handled it, you know, to the best of his ability based on all the
00:25:09other extenuating circumstances.
00:25:11But I have newfound respect for Nick Juarez after all this.
00:25:15And I know that sounds silly because he got suspended also, but he got suspended
00:25:18retaliating off the racetrack, like basically off the horse and took it into his own
00:25:24hands. And I understand that it's almost like road rage.
00:25:27Somebody cuts you off and gets you to the point where you're going to be in a precarious
00:25:31position and get hurt or possibly killed, you know, after the fact, you're going to have
00:25:36all this adrenaline going through you and you're going to look for some kind of
00:25:39retribution. Yeah, no, I mean, and Nick made that made that analogy as well.
00:25:45He said, imagine if you're driving to work every day and you're driving with, you know,
00:25:49with the same eight, nine guys every day, just the same people.
00:25:51But, you know, one guy doesn't give a shit.
00:25:54One day he's going to cut you off.
00:25:56One day he's not. Would you feel safe driving?
00:25:58And I agree.
00:25:59I gained a lot of respect for Nick Juarez because he didn't try to justify his actions.
00:26:03He said, with me, they sent the right message because I deserve my punishment.
00:26:07I took things into my own hands.
00:26:08And if I did that out on the street, there'd be repercussions with the authorities.
00:26:12I have to let the authorities do my do their job.
00:26:14On my end, I think they were fair.
00:26:16I'm ashamed of how I acted.
00:26:17What they do with him is out of my control.
00:26:19So he wasn't he wasn't trying to excuse his own behavior.
00:26:22He was just he was explaining it.
00:26:24And yeah, like I just feel like there are so many stewards and so many racing commissions in
00:26:29this country who were born yesterday or legislate like they were born yesterday and that there's no context to the things that happen with these repeat offenders.
00:26:38And we've seen it with trainers over and over again.
00:26:40Peter Miller gets seven days for his nine hundredth violation of the rules.
00:26:45And Paco Lopez, for him to only get five days is just absurd.
00:26:49And, you know, I think in this case, we were all very lucky that the horse didn't go down, that Nick Juarez didn't go down.
00:26:54But I think that might have been the only way to get Paco a bigger punishment is if the horse had gone down and it had been an absolute catastrophe.
00:27:01And, you know, it was just very relatable with what Nick Juarez said, because, you know, even if you don't have kids, which I don't, just to be through the trials of the previous thirty six hours and the lone saving grace is that he got to hold his first child.
00:27:12Then you come back to America and watch a guy with a proven history of reckless riding smirk at you after doing something that could have killed you and left that daughter fatherless.
00:27:21Like I would have wanted to destroy him, too.
00:27:24Like, you know, you're only human.
00:27:25And like I said, if you watch the replay, the really egregious thing is that Paco didn't look once over his shoulder, under his shoulder, not one glance to see if he was clear.
00:27:35And so at best, I think Paco Lopez, who couldn't be bothered to look over his shoulder, simply doesn't give a shit about the fellow ride, the safety of his fellow riders or their horses.
00:27:44And at worst, you know, which the smirk would indicate he's actively intending to injure people and drop other people.
00:27:51And, you know, even way either way, even in the most generous scenario, he's got to go for more than five days.
00:27:57Like considering his history, it's just it's ludicrous.
00:28:00And to me, the suspension next time this happens, you know, and it's going to happen again because there's no deterrent for Paco.
00:28:07I think it should be a year.
00:28:08And after that, five years after that, a lifetime ban.
00:28:11And, you know, we talk a lot about this on the show about the impunity that certain trainers feel.
00:28:16And I would look at what, you know, look at what Paco Lopez must think.
00:28:19You know, he he clearly thinks he can do whatever he wants, because for the most part, he's right.
00:28:23Like nothing has happened to him.
00:28:24He had one 30 day suspension in twenty nineteen when he broke Romero Mirage's neck, which Nick and Bill both mentioned in the story.
00:28:32Other than that, it's just cost of doing business, fines and suspensions, the same kind of thing we see some trainers get away with.
00:28:38And it's enough. Paco Lopez, he's an immensely talented writer.
00:28:42And I think he could legitimately be a top 10 jockey in the country if he wasn't who he is.
00:28:48He's had enough chances to prove that he's not a danger to the racing community.
00:28:51He is has time for someone somewhere to do something about it that's meaningful.
00:28:57And then, guys, just one more thing.
00:28:58And I forgot to mention this before, but let's say that that the racing jurisdiction, the stewards only had at their in their arsenal a five day suspension.
00:29:07That's all they could do. I don't know if that's the truth, but let's assume that that's all they could do is at most give him a five day suspension.
00:29:13The biggest the biggest weekend in racing at Mammoth is this coming weekend.
00:29:18You're telling me that you couldn't have said, well, we're going to start the suspension on the 19th of July and therefore it would go through that weekend.
00:29:27You don't tell me you can't tell me that that wouldn't be a message to Paco Lopez.
00:29:30Sorry, Paco, you can't ride in the Mali pitcher or the Mammoth Cup or the Haskell or the United Nations because of what you did.
00:29:37We're only able to give you a five day suspension, but we're going to make it so it's over this weekend.
00:29:42You can't tell me that he wouldn't be like, oh, shit, I better I better think about this next time.
00:29:46He missed a bunch of maiden $10,000 claiming races and never went to $20,000 claiming races at Mammoth.
00:29:52And that's nothing out of his pocket.
00:29:54So if you only had the arsenal of a five day suspension, time it better.
00:29:58So at least then it would send a message as opposed to, sorry, guys, you know, I'm sorry this happened.
00:30:05But Paco's a leading rider, so we have to protect him.
00:30:07That's the whole thing. He's still going to be a leading rider.
00:30:09You know, it's not going to make a difference to him whatsoever.
00:30:11Go ahead, Bill.
00:30:12John, a question for you.
00:30:13I know you don't run much at Mammoth, but you do run at Gulfstream.
00:30:18Going forward, would you contemplate telling your trainers, I don't want to use this guy?
00:30:22Yeah, we have.
00:30:23I mean, not just not just to Paco.
00:30:25I don't want to just single them out in that kind of a situation.
00:30:27But we have said to our trainers, we are not going to use, you know, Joe Smith as a as a rider anymore.
00:30:35And it could be something as simple as, you know, something as egregious as what's going on with Paco.
00:30:41But it also could be something as simple as like we were supposed to have a certain jockey was just to come in the morning and breeze one of our two year olds and never showed up.
00:30:50You know, so so, you know, Joe Orsino taught me this years ago about giving, you know, giving guys days.
00:30:55And, you know, sometimes we give jockeys days unofficially where we won't use them for violations of just, you know, a matter of common sense.
00:31:06But, yeah, if something is as egregious as this, then we wouldn't we wouldn't ride somebody like Paco.
00:31:11We've actually used Nick a couple of times at Mammoth and we've used Jose Ferrer at Mammoth as well, who, you know, who won the Tampa Bay Derby for us a couple of years ago in Tampa.
00:31:20And those are just classy guys.
00:31:22Those are guys that are just really good, solid people and really care about the industry and care about their the way that they ride and care about their fellow jockey colony.
00:31:33And it's, you know, it's such a dangerous vocation as it is to have somebody else out there that's as reckless as somebody like Paco in this situation.
00:31:44And guys, Paco's not the only one.
00:31:45I mean, you look at the Ortiz brothers sometimes and you got a question, you know, their aggressiveness also.
00:31:51And some people have said, I don't think this, but some people have said, you know, that they're in cahoots together.
00:31:55And then, you know, if somebody one of them doesn't have a horse that can win, they try to take out another favorite.
00:32:01I don't know if it's that far, but but there are certain they are aggressive riders also.
00:32:05And you certainly have to watch your back when you know, when when they're in the race.
00:32:09Would I not use one of them?
00:32:11I don't think I get to that point yet.
00:32:14But there may be a point in time where, you know, where you have to say we can't use those guys anymore or women anymore because they are just that they're a hazard.
00:32:22Yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, Paco is the guy.
00:32:24I agree that there are other aggressive riders or Paco's the kind of guy who just does this over and over and over again.
00:32:29And we're very lucky that he hasn't gotten someone killed, like just in the Fountain of Youth earlier this year.
00:32:33He caused like a three horse pile up, you know, again, not looking to his outside to see if he had clearance when he's trying to move to the outside.
00:32:42What about last year's Haskell?
00:32:43Wasn't wasn't he involved in last year's Haskell issue?
00:32:45Was that him?
00:32:46I felt like that was a different scenario.
00:32:49I felt like where Flavian's horse came in.
00:32:51Paco went down.
00:32:52Yeah, it went down in the Haskell.
00:32:54But but, you know, the point is that he's he's always putting other riders in dangerous situations.
00:33:00And, you know, when he does get someone hurt because it's going to happen, like seriously hurt, even more hurt than Romero Mirage.
00:33:06It's going to that's going to be on the hands of all of the people who had the power to sit him down for a long period of time and did not do it.
00:33:14And again, the born yesterday stewards who act like this stuff is happening in a vacuum and there's no context, doesn't matter what happened before.
00:33:22You know, there was there was some some significant punishment for a guy that we talked about last week, Juan Vasquez, who did get suspended three years by the Pennsylvania Racing Commission, almost three years, about two and a half years.
00:33:33And that was a big deal.
00:33:34And that was actually really satisfying.
00:33:37And I know the New York State Gaming Commission came out and, you know, had reciprocity for the suspension.
00:33:42And they had some quotes that I think turned Bill up a little bit.
00:33:46Yeah, they did this before with Baffert when he got his suspension from Kentucky.
00:33:51So the New York Gaming Commission, first of all, let's go back.
00:33:54Pennsylvania, yes, did the right thing.
00:33:57Good for them.
00:33:58You know, talk about, you know, not giving somebody a slap on the wrist like Paco.
00:34:02It ain't slap this guy on the wrist.
00:34:03They beat him upside his head, which is what he deserved, given him this long, lengthy suspension for shipping an infirm horse that that had laminitis and had to be put down.
00:34:13But I got a real bone to pick with the New York Gaming Commission.
00:34:15They come out a few days later and say Juan Vasquez banned in New York.
00:34:21That to me, they might as well put out a press release that said today is Wednesday.
00:34:26The and so they're trying to say, look at us, look how tough we are.
00:34:30We're banning Juan Vasquez from New York.
00:34:34You had to.
00:34:35That's the rules of racing.
00:34:37When someone is suspended in one state, going back to the 1804 or whatever, the rule has always been there's reciprocity in other states.
00:34:47Now, if they really wanted to be tough guys, and I believe I don't see any reason why they couldn't have done this.
00:34:53There was this issue between the time that Juan Vasquez got the suspension from Pennsylvania and the time it took place.
00:34:59It was like a week or whatever.
00:35:00I don't really understand why, but he ran a bunch of horses in Saratoga.
00:35:05Why didn't the New York Gaming Commission come out the minute those entries were put into Saratoga and saying this guy suspended right now?
00:35:13He cannot run in Saratoga.
00:35:15That would have been showing some cojones, not this pathetic press release about this.
00:35:21I mean, OK, guess what?
00:35:22We're going to do our job.
00:35:24Oh, congratulations.
00:35:26So, you know, I mean, again, I don't know how much we want to keep going down the same path with Juan Vasquez.
00:35:31But, you know, we need the Racing Commission slash Gaming Commission as a whole to step up and be tougher here.
00:35:38And this was, you know, talk about, you know, Donald Trump did get it right.
00:35:42There is fake news out there.
00:35:43Boy, this was fake news.
00:35:46Like you said, it was a PR thing, because I think they were embarrassed that everyone was talking about the Juan Vasquez horses who were running at Saratoga all weekend, one of which ran third in the quick call, by the way.
00:35:55And yeah, I think that was just them trying to watch back at that and say, well, here we're doing our jobs.
00:36:02Yeah, I agree, Bill. Totally.
00:36:04But Bill, just just to put icing on the cake, you're right, because we beat up Pennsylvania a lot.
00:36:08They did do the right thing.
00:36:09They absolutely did the right thing by suspending this guy for as long as they did.
00:36:14And could you say, yeah, it took a long time for them to finally do it?
00:36:18Yeah, it did. It was it was a little a little too late.
00:36:20But the suspension certainly sent a message, you know, with with regards to the suspension.
00:36:28The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Lane's End.
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00:36:51Candy Ride is one of the coolest horses I can ever remember running.
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00:38:17Kentucky breads have been racking up the grade one wins all around the world.
00:38:20Grade one Belmont Derby Invitational winner Classic Causeway is a Kentucky bread as is Tenebrism,
00:38:26who recorded her second group one score earlier this month, defeating the boys in the pre-Jean Pratt and Dovey.
00:38:31And, you know, Ellis Park has actually turned into a really great meet.
00:38:36It used to be kind of an afterthought during the summer.
00:38:38But you look at some of those purses, they got 60 plus thousand dollar maiden races.
00:38:42A lot of really, you know, pricey allowance races.
00:38:44They got good stakes schedule.
00:38:47And, you know, I think that they also have worked well in concert with the Kentucky Downs meet,
00:38:51because we're going to see a lot of those Kentucky Downs preview races at Ellis later this summer.
00:38:55And obviously we all look forward to that Kentucky Downs meet.
00:38:57Great, great field sizes, great purses, great takeout.
00:39:02It's really there's something for everybody there.
00:39:03But don't but don't sleep on Ellis this summer.
00:39:05I know everybody's focused on Saratoga and Del Mar's opening this weekend,
00:39:08but the Ellis Racing product gets better and better every year.
00:39:12And obviously you got a Kentucky bread.
00:39:14It's even more lucrative to race at Ellis and Kentucky Downs and the rest of the year in Kentucky.
00:39:19OK, so yesterday, Bill and I talked to Andy Serling, who I'm sure you all know,
00:39:23but if you don't, is an excellent handicapper on the New York Racing Association broadcast.
00:39:27On the Fox Sports broadcast, one of the best personalities in racing
00:39:32and a good friend of mine and Bill's great guy to talk to,
00:39:35always has an opinion on the horses, on the industry as a whole.
00:39:38And of course, as I as I introduce him, he's the unofficial mayor of Saratoga.
00:39:43Everybody stops him everywhere he goes.
00:39:45What's a picture? What's what's his phone number?
00:39:47He's the man up there in Saratoga.
00:39:49So check out our interview with Andy Serling.
00:39:52The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group,
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00:39:59With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:40:03Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:40:08So we're thrilled to welcome back friend of the show,
00:40:09the unofficial mayor of Saratoga, excellent Naira handicapper.
00:40:13Andy Serling, thanks for coming back, bud.
00:40:15Thank you. I don't ever want to think about being the mayor of Saratoga.
00:40:18It sounds like one of the many thankless jobs the mayor don't.
00:40:21I don't know. I feel like the amount of people that must come up to you.
00:40:23You must feel like the mayor sometime.
00:40:25But, you know, people are just so nice.
00:40:28It's it's you know, you have to be careful when you're in Saratoga.
00:40:31You start to get the make mistaken impression that people like you.
00:40:34And I know Bill can relate to this.
00:40:36We don't want to ever get fooled by that.
00:40:39Well, you come back on this show just to bring it right to the big letdown.
00:40:44But we'll start with our little general question about Saratoga.
00:40:47It's the only track, it seems like it's that maybe Kentucky Downs
00:40:50where Handel goes up every single year and every year you think,
00:40:53well, it topped out, it can't possibly be better than this.
00:40:56And it is better than this.
00:40:57What do you think it is other than just the aura and the mystique of Saratoga?
00:41:02You know, it's a good question.
00:41:03Dave O'Rourke used to joke with me and he'd say it must be the red
00:41:06on the television that gets people excited.
00:41:10You know, I'll be honest.
00:41:11I came into this meet concerned, I think, and rightfully so.
00:41:15Our numbers were so spectacular last year when you're up like 13 percent like we were.
00:41:19You think and listen, it might rain on three Saturdays going forward
00:41:23and that'll sink us.
00:41:24I mean, you have to remember that the weather is always going to be a factor.
00:41:27The good news is it looks pretty good this week.
00:41:30So keeping our fingers crossed. But
00:41:34I was shocked how much we were up.
00:41:36And, you know, I heard somebody was out last night at dinner
00:41:38and somebody was there who works the horseshoe, the bar across the street
00:41:41in the track.
00:41:42And she was saying that they were busier on Saturday
00:41:45than they've ever been on Traverse Day.
00:41:47And it makes me think that just a lot of people it's starting.
00:41:50I mean, you know, you haven't been up as much as Bill and I.
00:41:54But Saratoga, when we expanded, it always sort of stayed the August place to be.
00:41:57And it was a little quieter as the meet started.
00:42:00Of course, the last week, especially when you're into September, can get quieter.
00:42:04I'm just wondering now if it's starting to matter less and less.
00:42:06This weekend was incredible. Huge crowds.
00:42:09The handle number is great.
00:42:10Listen, the racing was also terrific this week.
00:42:12We averaged almost ten and a half horses a race on the inner turf.
00:42:16We were up, I think, about three quarters of a horse over last year.
00:42:20So all the stars were aligned for everything.
00:42:21And let's also be on Delmar's not running.
00:42:24And it's funny you brought up Kentucky Downs.
00:42:26They're going to have to deal with Delmar for a week this year.
00:42:28They never dealt with before.
00:42:30But so I think all those things obviously played a role.
00:42:32But the racing was great.
00:42:34And the love for Saratoga just keeps growing and growing.
00:42:38And maybe some of it is that once somebody comes to Saratoga,
00:42:41they never stop coming back.
00:42:42And over the years, it's just going to build and build and build.
00:42:46Andy, like you said, of every metric so far for the first week
00:42:50and the numbers have been fantastic and, you know, it's just amazing.
00:42:53I thought the 815 million last year was a peak kind of number.
00:42:56You never able to see, you know, again, if the weather holds up,
00:43:00you're going to shatter that.
00:43:01But, you know, the good racing obviously has something to do with that.
00:43:05So, you know, the day in and day out cards have been very good to start with.
00:43:08But let's kind of look at the stakes race picture a little bit.
00:43:10It looks to me like between the Haskell, Jim Dandy and Travers,
00:43:14it's going to be a very exciting summer for the three year olds.
00:43:17And just give us your overview of them so far.
00:43:19I mean, if you had to pick the Travers winner today,
00:43:21which, of course, is ridiculous, I even ask you to do that.
00:43:24But, you know, who is going to emerge from this group?
00:43:28It's a great question because it really is a deep group.
00:43:32I think Jack Christopher potentially is the most talented of them.
00:43:35But I do have questions whether he's really a mile and a quarter.
00:43:38And I think in a perfect world for Chad Brown, he sort of holds on
00:43:42to win the Haskell by about a neck and everybody gets together and says,
00:43:46that was great, but he's not being, you know, and then the Jim Dandy,
00:43:50you know, the Xandins and epicenters and early voting all run well.
00:43:53And the guys get together and say much as we'd like to win the Travers.
00:43:56And listen, Chad will run three in the Travers.
00:43:58I don't you know, we've seen how many he'll run a race.
00:44:00But I think in a perfect world, he goes to the Alan Jerkins.
00:44:03Right. He's a heavy favorite because he's such an intimidating presence.
00:44:08But once again, if he draws off in the Haskell and runs another big fig,
00:44:12I'm not going to be shocked if he ends up the favorite for the for the Travers.
00:44:15It's really hard.
00:44:16I think that if you look at the big three there, well, really, it's the big four
00:44:21because charges performance was so impressive in the Dwyer
00:44:24that you want to see it again.
00:44:26And unfortunately, he's probably not running the Jim Dandy.
00:44:29But I think to say that he's not a member of that team
00:44:31because he had credentials going in the Derby and after the race,
00:44:34he ran obviously a mile controlling the race the way he did.
00:44:37Those races can be a bit exaggerated.
00:44:39But to ignore him and suggest that he's not a major player of the Travers is foolish.
00:44:43And I do think he's a major player.
00:44:45But potentially Zandon early voting and Epicenter hook up with the Jim Dandy.
00:44:49Now, a win isn't the be all and end all for any of the three.
00:44:52The performances will matter.
00:44:53I do favor early voting of that group, but I'm very afraid of Epicenter.
00:44:58And I think one thing we'll probably see from Epicenter is much more speed.
00:45:02I think Steve Asmussen did a great job with him getting the rate
00:45:05in Louisiana Derby.
00:45:06And then he was very smart in the way he handled the Derby,
00:45:08given how much pace there was.
00:45:10But I think there were lingering effects going in the preakness.
00:45:13I know he had a little trouble to start,
00:45:14but he clearly just didn't have that epicenter type speed.
00:45:18I got a feeling from a trainer like Steve Asmussen, who really, above all,
00:45:21understands the value of speed.
00:45:23Think of how good Gunrunner was when he finally started going to lead.
00:45:26I don't think that Steve is letting early voting control in any way
00:45:30in that Jim Dandy.
00:45:31And I think you're going to see a very aggressive epicenter.
00:45:34And to be honest, I'm rooting for early voting.
00:45:38But I think it's going to be one heck of a race.
00:45:40And I think it's just going to be another part of what's a great summer
00:45:42because there's good three-year-old fillies and the older horses.
00:45:45There's some huge talents out there.
00:45:48Yeah, I mean, we were talking about that last week,
00:45:49about what a spectacular first half of the year it's been
00:45:51and how many great performances we've seen.
00:45:53That's going to make the Saratoga product even better
00:45:55because you would think you're going to see 80 to 90 percent of those horses
00:45:58show up in Saratoga.
00:45:59It's interesting the thing you say about the horseshoe,
00:46:01because every time I've been on the horseshoe, it's oppressively
00:46:04oppressively crowded no matter what day you go.
00:46:07So I can only imagine what a Saturday or Travers Day would be like.
00:46:11But I want to ask about the first couple of days of racing.
00:46:13Obviously, it's hard to draw too many conclusions from the first four days.
00:46:16But I saw David Aragon talking about how he thinks you shouldn't
00:46:19you don't necessarily want to be on the lead on the turf right now.
00:46:23Is there anything in terms of the track, in terms of the trainers
00:46:26that you've noticed through the first week that you would suggest
00:46:29people look for going forward?
00:46:31Well, David was talking about the inner turf, not not the melon.
00:46:34And that was something that I had already said in the track trends.
00:46:36I had sent out the first three days.
00:46:38I just had the fourth and reiterated that.
00:46:39But I think there was only one race on the inner on Sunday.
00:46:44But David said, I mean, David's not copying.
00:46:45I said a track trends.
00:46:46He obviously sees the stuff for himself.
00:46:48But that's one thing he and I have been in agreement on that
00:46:50for whatever reason.
00:46:51And the rails think we're out nine feet.
00:46:53And I believe at least the first three days we've drawn
00:46:56the rails will remain out nine feet on the inner.
00:46:58So I think it's fair to expect something similar.
00:47:00It's odd because there have been races where, you know, the paces weren't
00:47:03that strong and it just seems like horses have been closing.
00:47:06How much of a trend it is?
00:47:08You don't want to get that carried away.
00:47:09We probably ran nine, 10 races, like you said.
00:47:12But it has seemed to be a bit of a trend.
00:47:14I've talked about a track trends.
00:47:15David feels and I get why he does that.
00:47:18The main track, I think last year was a very interesting track.
00:47:22And he was on this early.
00:47:23And I think ultimately he was right.
00:47:25I don't think it was a speed track, but I think whether it's kickback
00:47:29and it must be kickback late, he's more into kickback than I am.
00:47:32But I have to say there's something to it.
00:47:33Obviously, David's case, I respect his opinion as much as anybody in the game.
00:47:39The kickback or something was hindering closures,
00:47:42so I don't think it was a speed track.
00:47:44I think it was a track that was not was harmful to horses
00:47:46trying to make up ground.
00:47:48So it ended up helping forward replaced horses.
00:47:51And I think we've seen that to a certain extent this year.
00:47:54I'm not as absolute as David is looking at the results.
00:47:56We've seen some horses close.
00:47:58You know, I've heard some people say something about a dead rail.
00:48:00That makes no sense.
00:48:01We've seen horses wire in the rail that Wesley Ward, second time starter,
00:48:05a favorite. Oh, trouble did this weekend.
00:48:07So I know the first winner, that impressive Bruce Levine,
00:48:10New York Red Maiden winner on Sunday.
00:48:12I don't see any evidence whatsoever.
00:48:14It is just there's anything wrong with the rail.
00:48:16It's hard to close up the rail, especially the kickbacks in the issue,
00:48:19because it's probably the worst spot to be.
00:48:21But I don't think it's the rail itself that's a problem.
00:48:24Andy, I asked you about the stakes races looking at the very positives,
00:48:28but we also have to take a look at it.
00:48:30It hasn't really been a factor yet in Saratoga,
00:48:32but it's been a big factor throughout the season.
00:48:34And maybe it will be Naira than anywhere else.
00:48:36What's that?
00:48:37It will be a factor.
00:48:38I mean, the small field, you know where I'm going with this.
00:48:41And I've even suggested in print, and it sounds blasphemous,
00:48:44but is it perhaps time to take a look at races like the Suburban,
00:48:49which was, you know, not a good race and had a small exciting.
00:48:53Let's give it a little credit.
00:48:54It wasn't a good field.
00:48:54It wasn't exciting to be fair.
00:48:57You know, I think the coaching club, we haven't seen the entries yet,
00:48:59but apparently that's going to be a pretty small field this weekend as well.
00:49:02Is there a solution to this?
00:49:03Or am I looking to to answer a problem that doesn't exist?
00:49:08Oh, no, no, no, no.
00:49:09You're not looking for an answer to a problem that doesn't exist.
00:49:12You're 100 percent right.
00:49:13That is a problem to to suggest.
00:49:15Otherwise, is to continue, as we love to do in racing, keep our heads in the sand.
00:49:19I mean, listen, I was talking about on Twitter, the King George over in Europe,
00:49:22one of the the great races run in the world every year.
00:49:25And it's a great field. Don't get me wrong.
00:49:27But they have six this year.
00:49:28It's the biggest field in three years.
00:49:30This is not just a problem in America, but it's a bigger problem.
00:49:34Some is America.
00:49:34The shocking thing about the King George is it's one and a quarter million.
00:49:37And that's a huge purse for England.
00:49:39But, you know, in some ways, the purses shouldn't matter in these big races
00:49:44because the the value for a broodmare, the value for stallions, you know,
00:49:48there's so much
00:49:50intrinsic value for these races that purses shouldn't be coming into a big play.
00:49:55Do you know what it is?
00:49:55There's too many races, whether it's too many races here.
00:49:58I mean, we're trying to fill the mother goose.
00:50:00Right. The mother goose.
00:50:01It pains me to think of the mother goose being a race that goes goes by the wayside
00:50:06because as I know, you know, Bill, because you're old like me, you've been around
00:50:09a long time. If you want to learn about the history of three year old fillies
00:50:12and fillies in this country, look at the names of the horses that have won
00:50:16the mother goose. It is unbearable who's who of the greatest horses
00:50:19that have ever raced in that division.
00:50:21But something has to give and I'm not blaming any of these tracks.
00:50:25But there's an Iowa Oaks.
00:50:26There's a you know, there's a this Oaks.
00:50:28There's a that Oaks.
00:50:29There's races at Monmouth.
00:50:30You know, there's races everywhere.
00:50:32And I'm not pointing a finger at any of them.
00:50:33I get it. But it's just giving people too many options.
00:50:37And these races are falling by the wayside.
00:50:39I don't know the answer.
00:50:40I mean, to be fair, the coaching club is going to be a matchup of nest and secret
00:50:43oath. And theoretically, they're going to hook up with gerrymander.
00:50:46It was so impressive winning the mother goose.
00:50:49So I think there's good races within them.
00:50:52But the field sizes are a huge problem.
00:50:54And I think I'm obviously not involved in these kind of discussions.
00:50:57Thank God. Nobody wants me to be involved.
00:51:00I don't want to be involved.
00:51:01But I think to suggest that the stakes committee, you know, whatever,
00:51:05whether it's the board, the racing office, isn't taking a serious look
00:51:10about how what we're doing with these stake races and getting ready
00:51:13to make some changes.
00:51:14I mean, I can't imagine they aren't.
00:51:16But I don't think there's anything wrong with you talking.
00:51:18I was glad you wrote that article about whether I agree
00:51:20with every single thing you wrote or not is irrelevant.
00:51:22It is an absolute issue in racing.
00:51:24And something has to be done
00:51:26because there's just too many of these big races with tiny fields
00:51:29and good horses for small fields.
00:51:31And that's just not special.
00:51:33Yeah, I mean, one of them, you know, you get one five horse field
00:51:35and four of them can win. OK.
00:51:37But when every one of them is like that, it just kind of sucks.
00:51:40Well, yeah, that was that was the kind of thing with Belmont Day.
00:51:42I felt like I hadn't such mixed feelings because from a fan's perspective,
00:51:45it was spectacular.
00:51:46It was like all the all the horses you would want to see.
00:51:49But from a better standpoint, it just it wasn't that exciting to me.
00:51:52And I didn't bet that much.
00:51:53I just kind of I watched the races on TV.
00:51:55And you mentioned the greatest stakes committee.
00:51:57And I think that they do have to take a long look after this year
00:52:00at the schedule and what can be downgraded and what can be gotten rid of.
00:52:03But the other thing is, is the trainers, the trainers are the other factor.
00:52:06And basically them waiting too long to run horses for at least
00:52:10from my perspective, no reason.
00:52:12One of the reasons I think that they that they use is the bounce there.
00:52:15And I've heard you talk about this before.
00:52:18It's become something of a dogma, I think, in with trainers
00:52:22that a horse runs this figure, he can't run this figure again this soon.
00:52:26So this is kind of a layup question for you at the alley.
00:52:28You you can slam dunk it if you want.
00:52:31But do you ever talk to trainers about that?
00:52:33Like I know you're friends with a lot of them.
00:52:34Do you ever talk to them and have debates and arguments that
00:52:37why do you think these horses can't run so often?
00:52:40I think one of the things the three of us share is that we've got a lot of opinions
00:52:43on everything.
00:52:44And I think as we get older and the more we're around,
00:52:47we start to come to terms with the fact that most people don't need to hear
00:52:50our opinions all the time.
00:52:52They don't want to hear us tell them how to do their own business.
00:52:55Well, I can go on TV and say what I want, but I'm
00:52:58reticent to tell trainers, you know, they're in charge of the horses.
00:53:01They're going to do its best.
00:53:03The thing that's annoying about the bounce to me
00:53:06is that I thought one of the things that was supposed to differentiate
00:53:09good horses from average horses is good horses showed up all the time
00:53:13like cigar, right?
00:53:14Cigar showed up every time.
00:53:16So it is frustrating.
00:53:18And there's no question it plays a role.
00:53:20There's no question.
00:53:21And the fact that there's so many options
00:53:24makes it even easier for them to do this.
00:53:27So, yes, it is definitely a role.
00:53:29Trainers, owners.
00:53:30I mean, I'm not going to tell them how to run their horses, but sure.
00:53:33Horses making less starts for whatever reasons they are.
00:53:36Has the breed really gotten that much more fragile?
00:53:39I don't know. There's so much emphasis placed on winning.
00:53:42Is it something that really became a big phenomenon with Zenyatta,
00:53:45who, as good as she was, had a career that was tailored
00:53:48towards winning her races when she could have run in Hollywood
00:53:52Gold Cup, Santa Anita races, probably would have won more than her fair share of them,
00:53:55if not all of them.
00:53:57So there's so much concern about losing races.
00:54:01Alan Jerkins never cared about losing races.
00:54:03I mean, he liked to win, but he liked to run.
00:54:06And there are trainers.
00:54:07Bill Mott will run all the time.
00:54:08You know, he doesn't concern.
00:54:10But there is a lot of emphasis put on winning.
00:54:13And I can't answer all the reasons it happens, but sure, it's all part of the
00:54:17I don't want to say problem, but it's created this situation.
00:54:23Morris, just statement on my part than a question,
00:54:26but if you want to pick up on this,
00:54:27I think what we're going to be talking about a year and a half from now
00:54:30is that the fall is gone, that nobody's going to run anymore
00:54:33after Saratoga and Del Mar.
00:54:35We're going to see, you know,
00:54:36that's why they had to move the Jackie Gold Cup to Saratoga as it was.
00:54:39I think a race like the Woodward is just in terrible trouble
00:54:42because, you know, now it used to be you had to give them five weeks off
00:54:45between the Breeders' Cup and their previous start.
00:54:47Now it's two months.
00:54:48So I think that's the next thing that we've done.
00:54:50Is that a realistic concern, Andy?
00:54:52Well, I think it's everything's on the table. Right.
00:54:55And, you know, maybe one of the answers to that with a race like the Woodward
00:54:59is if people aren't going to run Jockey Club and the Woodward,
00:55:03they run the Woodward two weeks after the race in six or seven weeks
00:55:06before the Breeders' Cup. Right.
00:55:07I mean, I'm just I'm just sort of toying with that idea.
00:55:09I'm throwing it out there.
00:55:10I'm not saying it's something to do.
00:55:11Yeah, I think that we have to look very, very hard at the race.
00:55:14We run the fall. I mean, here's the thing.
00:55:18I love seeing good horses run,
00:55:20but I also am really into allowance races, some good claiming races,
00:55:24maiden races, so I don't get all that caught up in this.
00:55:28It's a it's a it's an important discussion in the game.
00:55:31But for me, there's so many other races besides stake races
00:55:34that if I don't find a betting opportunity to stake race, I'm all right.
00:55:37You know, I'm fine passing races.
00:55:38I'm going to give my opinions.
00:55:39I like seeing good horses run so I can focus on the other races.
00:55:42But I think, Bill, I think I think you're being more specific about a general.
00:55:47I don't think it's just the fall.
00:55:49I think there is truth in what you're saying about the fall.
00:55:51But I think that there's there's
00:55:52will have to be some wholesale changes made in stakes programs in general.
00:55:56And unfortunately, there's just no cooperation at all. Right.
00:56:01I mean, Churchill added all these new stakes this year.
00:56:03They just do whatever they want to do. And that's their business.
00:56:05I'm not talking about how to run their business, but they do that.
00:56:08And there's no cooperation with racetracks.
00:56:10So it certainly doesn't seem like we're coming together
00:56:12and solve the problem of stake races by all joining hands and seeing kumbaya.
00:56:17So, yeah, serious changes have to be made, I think.
00:56:20And I think you guys agree.
00:56:21Let's get into some positive news, because last week, last Friday,
00:56:25penny breakage started in Kentucky, which I think is a big deal
00:56:28that not a lot of people talk about.
00:56:30I feel like you're probably more included into the New York State gaming process
00:56:34and all that.
00:56:34How close do you think we are to getting that in other states,
00:56:37especially in New York?
00:56:39Ask Dave O'Rourke.
00:56:40I really don't know.
00:56:41You know, I mean, I get it and I think it's obviously a good thing.
00:56:45I remember when Pat Cummings got that position with the Radiance Foundation,
00:56:49the first thing I said to him was, you want to be a hero?
00:56:52Work on breakage,
00:56:53because it felt like something maybe could accomplish it.
00:56:55And, you know, the problem in his position is and I like Pat and respect Pat.
00:56:59But racetracks have no impetus to listen to him.
00:57:01Why? Why would we?
00:57:03He's not really in a position to tell people how to run their business,
00:57:05doesn't mean he has good ideas or not.
00:57:06So I like seeing the breakage thing happen,
00:57:08whether or not it's happening in New York or changing.
00:57:11I have no idea.
00:57:12I mean, I think it's it's very beneficial to fans in that regard,
00:57:16because it's also theoretically should be beneficial to us
00:57:19because just returning more money to people's pockets,
00:57:21it's going to create more churn.
00:57:23So I see it as a positive thing.
00:57:24But I'm also a horse player.
00:57:26I can't really comment on what's going on, if anything, with Naira
00:57:29and the Gaming Commission on that, because it's just, you know,
00:57:32I used to think saying something was above my pay grade was a bad thing.
00:57:36I love saying things are above my pay grade now.
00:57:39And I want to take you back to the race insert.
00:57:41All right. Quick look at your Twitter feed over the last couple of days.
00:57:44You made a point that you think perhaps, well, you can make some money
00:57:48if you can be on the anti-Irat Ortiz bandwagon, find examples
00:57:52where he's overbet and try to beat him.
00:57:54You want to elaborate on that? Sure.
00:57:58You have to try in all times to find any angle you can.
00:58:02And listen, picking winners is great, but we're only going to make money
00:58:06if it managed to find a way to find some value somewhere.
00:58:09And it's very hard because the takeout, obviously.
00:58:12But Irat Ortiz is clearly getting dramatically overbet.
00:58:17He's got horses that should be three to one that seem to be nine to five
00:58:19and two to one.
00:58:20You're going to see somewhat with the Chad Brown factor as well, obviously.
00:58:24But it's really happening a lot with Irat.
00:58:26And it's more noticeable than Chad.
00:58:28Chad Brown's having an amazing year.
00:58:31His horses are he's running positive ROI.
00:58:33So I don't know if he's really been overbet.
00:58:35It's incredible.
00:58:36I don't know.
00:58:37We'll see if he can keep it up, but it's been amazing.
00:58:39But Irat is a great rider.
00:58:41There's no doubt about it.
00:58:43But so are about eight other guys in the room.
00:58:45And I don't really know what advantage Irat has over his brother,
00:58:48over Flavian Pratt, over Luis Saez, over, you know, just one got Joel Rosario.
00:58:55I don't want to leave guys out.
00:58:56Manny Franco's riding very well.
00:58:58This is a room where very, very good riders are having trouble getting mounts.
00:59:03And so I look at this, I look at the paper and I think it's very rare.
00:59:08You look and go, I can't believe this guy's riding a horse
00:59:10because most of the time good riders are riding them.
00:59:12So there's just no real advantage to having Irat.
00:59:15And they're betting it like it's Ramon Dominguez in the winter
00:59:17sometimes when Ramon Dominguez did have an advantage.
00:59:20He was a better rider than everybody else.
00:59:21And he was getting choice mounts.
00:59:23I don't think it's the case.
00:59:24And I'll tell you something about Irat.
00:59:26You have to ask yourself the effect of Flavian Pratt on these riders.
00:59:31And I could be wrong.
00:59:33But my guess is that Flavian rates to take more wins away from Irat
00:59:37than any other rider, because he's going to ride for Chad Brown.
00:59:41He seems to be riding for Todd Pletcher.
00:59:43And whether or not he's even the first rider of these guys,
00:59:45I could see him taking away.
00:59:47I mean, he's probably going to win a minimum of 30 something races, right?
00:59:52Don't you think that eight to 12 of them rate to come from Irat
00:59:55and much less from other guys?
00:59:57So I think it's going to be very hard for Irat to repeat as the lean rider,
01:00:00not because he's not a great rider.
01:00:02He is a great rider, but because his business will be more affected
01:00:05by the presence of Flavian Pratt than I think anybody else.
01:00:08Now, I may prove wrong, be proven wrong in that.
01:00:10And I read so good. It may not matter.
01:00:12But I would be betting against him to win the title.
01:00:15And yeah, this horse just keep getting over bet.
01:00:17I'm going to look for opportunities.
01:00:18I almost am never picking him right now
01:00:21because I just feel like you're never getting anything close to value.
01:00:24Yeah, the Ramon Dominguez comparison is a good one.
01:00:26That's the last guy I can remember in New York
01:00:27that really would get back just because of his name on in the forum.
01:00:31And Flavian Pratt is a it's a great point.
01:00:33I still take credit for him going to New York, by the way.
01:00:35We had him on the show when I said, you've got to come to New York
01:00:39if you want to win an Eclipse award.
01:00:41And then a month later, you came because he's a great rider.
01:00:43I'll get you out of here on this.
01:00:45You know, there's some new there's some new accommodations at Saratoga.
01:00:48It's always like a tricky dance
01:00:49because you want to preserve the historic nature of the track.
01:00:51We also want to have new stuff that gets people excited.
01:00:54The paddock bar, the paddock suite, rather
01:00:56that looks over the the walking path to the track, I thought looked really cool.
01:01:00I'm not one of the elites.
01:01:01I probably can't get in there, but I think Andy can talk his way into there.
01:01:04Have you checked out any of the new accommodations?
01:01:06Like what's some new stuff for the track that you like?
01:01:09I think the paddock bar thing is great.
01:01:11And it was so ridiculous that all these people on Twitter
01:01:13they've never seen it there and they were criticizing it beforehand
01:01:17because it made a permanent structure out of that very popular paddock bar.
01:01:21Instead of some tent that, yeah, kind of random.
01:01:24And now there's an upstairs thing that's taken nothing away.
01:01:27It's just added a new convenience.
01:01:29And I haven't been up there.
01:01:30I imagine I might end up there at some point.
01:01:32I don't know. I'm not eager to run over there, but I but I might end up there.
01:01:35I think I think it's great.
01:01:36And I think one of the good things and I'm going to tell you something.
01:01:39These are Dave O'Rourke things.
01:01:40Dave doesn't Dave has a problem with taking credit for things.
01:01:44I'm going to give him credit.
01:01:45Dave is a major, major part of that paddock bar in all ways.
01:01:50Dave is the one who created the top of the stretch area,
01:01:53the more informal box area, because Dave saw and this was before he became president.
01:01:57Dave saw three or four sections that were used 10 percent of the time.
01:02:02So he found an area of the racetrack that was pretty much docile
01:02:06and he turned it into a really fun area and a much more fun area,
01:02:08a popular area for people.
01:02:10And I think these are the kind of changes we've made.
01:02:12Now, the 1863 is something that Chris Kay deserves a lot, a lot of credit for.
01:02:17And I understand whether Chris was popular or not.
01:02:20Chris did all good things in Naira.
01:02:21And I don't I understand what happened.
01:02:23And I understand exactly why he was removed.
01:02:25But that's not you shouldn't deny that he was a big player.
01:02:28He was the guy who made 1863 happen.
01:02:31And that's been an enormously popular and great addition to Saratoga.
01:02:35And what did it do?
01:02:36It took over for some temporary suites.
01:02:39Glenn Kozak wanted to build the mile chute.
01:02:41We have a mile chute.
01:02:42It's not like that crazy thing in 93 built when you and I were there
01:02:45when you're much younger
01:02:47and he built a real chute.
01:02:48Now, I'm not saying it's going to change the world
01:02:50and maybe people can have issues with it, but it can't be a bad thing to add.
01:02:54What's the worst thing that happens?
01:02:55We don't love it.
01:02:56Trainers don't love it and we use it less.
01:02:58It's not a bad thing to give it a try.
01:03:00And that's something that Glenn wanted to do.
01:03:01Dave gave you OK, too.
01:03:03And I think a lot of the changes you're seeing are very, very positive.
01:03:06And at the end of the day, remember something.
01:03:08Walk around Saratoga.
01:03:09Everybody's happy.
01:03:11I mean, it's unbelievable.
01:03:12It's like a place.
01:03:12It's just you're getting infused with happiness.
01:03:15You get there and a smile comes on your face.
01:03:17And I think a lot of change has been made.
01:03:19And I can't think of one that I think has been a negative.
01:03:22I think they've all been positives by adding something without taking something
01:03:25away. And Dave O'Rourke has played a huge role in that.
01:03:28And I know he's my boss, the president.
01:03:30He's also my friend.
01:03:30And you know that I love to make fun of Dave at any given opportunity.
01:03:33I can. We've been friends a long time.
01:03:35But I do hope that people realize what an incredibly positive addition
01:03:39he has been as a president and Ira.
01:03:41And he knows an enormous amount of racing.
01:03:43He spent a lot of time with me, probably to his detriment, but learning about
01:03:47racing with Glenn Kozak, with so many different people.
01:03:50And a lot of these changes here are really because of him and the hard work of
01:03:53others. And to me, the change has been positive.
01:03:55And the answer is the popularity of the place.
01:03:57People are not leaving.
01:03:58They're coming. More people are coming.
01:04:00They're coming in droves.
01:04:02Absolutely. I mean, the proof is in the pudding with the handle numbers and the
01:04:04attendance numbers and everything just keeps getting better and better at Saratoga.
01:04:08Andy, thank you so much for coming on.
01:04:10Can't wait to see you up there.
01:04:11Keep up the good work, my friend.
01:04:13Good. We have a dinner.
01:04:13We have a dinner date going on.
01:04:15I'm looking forward to that.
01:04:15And Bill, I hope I see you up here one of these days.
01:04:17When's the last time you've been here?
01:04:19Nineteen eighty one.
01:04:21Get out of here. I beat you for a dinner in, I want to say, in nineteen ninety six.
01:04:27Yes.
01:04:27When Stallwork members drowned.
01:04:29Regularly for the New York Daily News in 2000, back when newspapers mattered.
01:04:33And now they're completely irrelevant.
01:04:35So, well, they're not completely irrelevant.
01:04:38You can read them online, but they don't cover horse racing anymore.
01:04:42No, they don't. But thanks so much, guys.
01:04:43And appreciate everything you guys do as well.
01:04:45So thanks for having me on.
01:04:46I really appreciate it.
01:04:46Great, Andy. Thank you.
01:04:48The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group,
01:04:50an accounting, tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
01:04:54As this week's Green Group guest of the week, Andy Serling will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
01:05:00Learn more at GreenCo.com.
01:05:02We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
01:05:06Why do the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisor?
01:05:10We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
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01:05:43The TV and Writing Room is brought to you by AMI, the American Public Television and Radio Communication Service.
01:05:48AMI, the American Public Television and Radio Communication Service.
01:05:51AMI, the American Public Television and Radio Communication Service.
01:05:54AMI, the American Public Television and Radio Communication Service.
01:05:57AMI, the American Public Television and Radio Communication Service.
01:06:00AMI, the American Public Television and Radio Communication Service.
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01:06:12The TV and Writing Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:06:14This week's XBTV Workout of the Week is Secret Oath.
01:06:18A show favorite and sure a favorite of many racing fans all across the country who worked five furlongs in one minute point one on Friday for D. Wayne Lucas.
01:06:27I'm sure you can see that that work on the screen right now.
01:06:30D. Wayne said afterwards that he is very pleased with the work as the Kentucky Oaks winner points for the Grade One Coaching Club American Oaks this Saturday,
01:06:38which we're going to talk about in our weekend preview.
01:06:41You know, Secret Oath. I just love the campaign.
01:06:44She ran this up this spring and I thought she really deserved a break.
01:06:49You know, some horses, they just get 10 weeks off just because traders and owners feel like it.
01:06:54You know, Secret Oath deserve that break. And I'm really excited to see what she can do in the second half of the year starting this Saturday.
01:07:00And if you want to see her works and you want to see all those two year old works up at Saratoga, do your own research.
01:07:05Sounds like a political thing these days. Do your own research, which means watch somebody else's YouTube video, basically.
01:07:11But now for handicapping Saratoga and Delmar, you can definitely do your own research and check out check out all those works and make your own judgments.
01:07:18Invaluable resource. I say it all the time is an invaluable resource, but especially this time of the year.
01:07:23Go to XBTV.com. All right.
01:07:26So this is our weekend preview segment. We're going to do one of these every single week, basically throughout the summer and fall.
01:07:31There's going to be enough good racing to talk about every single week.
01:07:34Obviously, with Saratoga opening its doors now, we've got a bunch of good stuff to look forward to this weekend.
01:07:39It really starts off on Friday with the grade three Lake George for three year old fillies on the Saratoga turf.
01:07:45But Saturday is a monster day, both at Saratoga and mainly at Monmouth.
01:07:50I think Monmouth, this is the this is their day to shine.
01:07:53We've got multiple grade one races. Obviously, the TBG.com Haskell is the biggest is the biggest prize on the card.
01:08:00But we've also got the grade one United Nations, which looks like it's going to get a pretty good field.
01:08:04We've got the grade three Monmouth Cup, the grade three Molly Pitcher, the grade three matchmaker stakes at Saratoga.
01:08:10We've got the coaching club, American Oaks and the Caress.
01:08:13And also don't want to leave out across the pond. We've got the King George, which is Saturday at Ascot.
01:08:18And then we've got the York stakes as well. So definitely some action on both sides of the Atlantic.
01:08:23Bill, John, what are you guys looking forward to the most?
01:08:26Well, obviously, the Haskell, and that's because not only is it an important race on the calendar every year,
01:08:32but, you know, I'm I've said this a thousand times and I'll keep saying it until I'm proven otherwise.
01:08:37I think Jack Christopher is a really special horse. And, you know, as good as he's been coming into this race,
01:08:43this is the most important test by far of his career for a couple of reasons.
01:08:47The primary ones of this, it's his first test at anything at a distance.
01:08:52I mean, he won last time out at seven furlongs. Start before that a mile. He's never run around two turns.
01:08:57And, you know, the only hole you can possibly poke at him is to say that, you know, he's unproven at a distance.
01:09:05Now, being unproven in distance and can't run a distance are two very different things.
01:09:10I don't see any reason why he wouldn't run a mile an eighth.
01:09:13He's by moneys. You know, the pedigree is fine for the distance.
01:09:17And I want to I want to see him go out and put on another big show again like he did in his other races.
01:09:23And, you know, these. OK, so the three year old division is going in two directions, one to the Jim Dandy, one to the Haskell.
01:09:30So the Haskell is not getting a handful of really important horses that are going to the Jim Dandy.
01:09:35You may be skipping the Jim Dandy waiting for the Travers. I charge it.
01:09:38The other Chad Brown horses early voting in Zanon.
01:09:40But you do in table have a horse in there that, you know, it's going to if table runs his race.
01:09:46No reason to think he won't. You know, that's a big test for Jack Christopher.
01:09:49Granted, he ran 12th in the derby.
01:09:52But before that, remember what he did to win that Santa Anita Derby in your second career start was is a, you know, tremendous achievement for this horse.
01:10:02He's obviously a lot of talent in there. Nothing wrong.
01:10:05There was Cyberknife, White Iberio. Those are legitimate grade one winners, both of them.
01:10:10So the Haskell came up, you know, very strong. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what Jack Christopher can do.
01:10:17The same day, the coaching club at Saratoga. Well, we already got our subject for the next week show.
01:10:23We can talk again about the small field. It looks like there's going to be maybe only four horses in there.
01:10:28But, you know, if there's going to be four horses, you might as well have a race where it has some something to really sink your teeth into.
01:10:36That's one of the things about these Naira races with a small field. They saw some really good horses in there.
01:10:40So you have the rematch from the Kentucky Oaks of Secret Oaks and Nest in there.
01:10:44Secret Oaks wins the Kentucky Oaks. Nest is second.
01:10:47I kind of think, though, that the momentum is more with Nest at this point, despite that, because, you know,
01:10:52as much as we admire what Secret Oaks has done in the campaign she's had, the fourth appointment was just kind of OK.
01:10:59I mean, it really wasn't that it was not one of her better races, whereas Nest is coming off a second place finish in the Belmont, where she really ran well.
01:11:07I got to think, actually, the Nest will be the favorite and in most respects, the horse to beat.
01:11:13It's a great match race. And also if Society, who's a daughter of Gunrunner and Butterbean,
01:11:18who's a McPeak entry, also make up the rest of the field, the coaching club is going to be a really interesting race.
01:11:25And four horse fields never excite us. But certainly there are a couple of very legitimate horses in this race.
01:11:32And it's not just a match race between the top two.
01:11:35I don't remember, guys, the last time that you had two fillies like Secret Oaks and Nest that were both coming off running in a triple crown race,
01:11:45entering the American Oaks. That's very unusual in my mind. I don't remember the last time that happened, Bill, maybe because you're a better person.
01:11:51It's got to be unprecedented. I don't think it's ever happened.
01:11:53Yeah. So that's another exciting angle of the whole thing is that they're going from not only running against the boys, but they're running in triple crown races,
01:12:01where one finished second and one finished fourth, respectively, in the Belmont and the Preakness.
01:12:06And now they're coming, I wouldn't say mano a mano, but filly a filly in the coaching club.
01:12:13Bill, you went over a number of the horses in the Haskell. It looks like it's going to be not a star studded field,
01:12:18but certainly a very solid field with some of the horses you mentioned.
01:12:21And, you know, I was never really a White Abaro fan, but the horse doesn't miss a dance.
01:12:26I mean, they've run him in basically every single prep for the time he was a two year old in the Kentucky Jockey Club race to the Holy Bowl,
01:12:35to the Florida Derby, the Kentucky Derby and now the Ohio Derby and now the Haskell.
01:12:39I mean, the horse has run in a number of races and has run well other than the Derby, you know,
01:12:44was first, second or third in every single one of those races.
01:12:47So White Abaro, you know, quietly is becoming a very solid horse that, you know, dances every dance.
01:12:54Jack Christopher is going to be the one to be excited about, you know, see if he can handle the speed favoring racetrack to his advantage.
01:13:01Tabo, you mentioned coming back into the barn of Bob Baffert.
01:13:05And if we the people does, you know, does end up running in the race, you know, again, another horse that is, you know, aspiring for greatness and is on the improve, you know, and hopefully we'll show it in the Haskell.
01:13:17And Joe, the only thing I'll take umbrage with you on is that you said, you know, the big races start on on Saturday.
01:13:22How about the Rick Violet, the New York Red Rick Violet tomorrow at Saratoga?
01:13:27You know, it's going to be a rematch between our coinage and Dakota Gold, who ran against each other in the Breeders' Cup turf, the grade one Breeders' Cup juvenile turf.
01:13:35Either of them hit the board, but they still ran against each other.
01:13:37And now they're coming back and their their paths are crossing again.
01:13:41This is like, you know, Ali and Frazier.
01:13:43And as Bill would say, Ali don't earn affirmed.
01:13:45I mean, this is going to be quite a, you know, quite a controversial kind of race.
01:13:51If coinage and Dakota Gold go head to head, you know, you know, all the way through, you know, for this very important New York Red steak race.
01:13:59Clear the front page, guys at TDN.
01:14:01We want we want coinage and Dakota Gold on the front left.
01:14:05But no, best of luck to John and DJ Staple in that race.
01:14:09Just wanted to run down some of the horses and the races you guys didn't mention.
01:14:12And the King George who got Mishrif.
01:14:14We all remember winning the Shima Classic and the Saudi Cup last year.
01:14:18That was an incredible double.
01:14:20He was second in the in the clip stakes.
01:14:22He's going to face off against Torquator Tasso.
01:14:24Had that big upset when an arc last year and also Westover was the Irish Derby winner is going to be in that race, too.
01:14:30So there's shortish field, but a mile and a half classic.
01:14:33Obviously, it's going to be it's going to be a phenomenal race in the United Nations.
01:14:37We've got a little bit of a rematch of the fall and tribute and tribute fan.
01:14:41Obviously had that monster performance in the Manhattan best race of his life.
01:14:45We'll see if he can pick that up.
01:14:46He won the United Nations last year.
01:14:48So he's defending his title.
01:14:50Should get like nine or 10 horses in that race.
01:14:52Looks like we're going to get a big field in the Mali pitcher in the Haskell.
01:14:57I'm putting out a few better things tomorrow.
01:14:59So I don't want to spoil my handicapping thoughts too much.
01:15:01But I'm into Cyberknife.
01:15:02I think Cyberknife is the kind of is kind of the now horse.
01:15:05I think obviously Jack Christopher and Tabor are going to be tough.
01:15:08But I think that there's a decent chance that they hook up a little bit early and set it up for a horse.
01:15:12It's just a little bit off the pace.
01:15:14So I'm interested in Cyberknife in that race.
01:15:16But I think all eyes are going to be on Jack Christopher.
01:15:19Bill makes the right point that this is the big test for him just to see what he can do for the rest of the year.
01:15:25Whether or not he's a really brilliant seven-foot-long, one-turn mile sprinter.
01:15:30Or if he can go a mile and a quarter.
01:15:33The question needs to be answered.
01:15:35And hopefully it will be answered this Saturday.
01:15:37Like I said, I hope that we get a little bit of a tussle early on in that race.
01:15:41I don't want a grab fest.
01:15:43I don't want a New York turf grab fest.
01:15:45Where Jack Christopher pops out to the front and everybody else just rides for a second.
01:15:49I want to see a real clash in that race.
01:15:52Like we're going to see in the coaching club American Oaks, as you guys mentioned, with Nest and Secret Oath.
01:15:57And also in the Shoe-V, which is on Sunday.
01:16:00I think we're going to get another rematch with Clary Eyre and Malatha, who put on a show in the Ogden Phipps on Belmont Day.
01:16:08And that was the best race of their life that they each ran.
01:16:12So it will be interesting to see if they can back that race up.
01:16:15You also have Bonnie South in their search results.
01:16:17Probably going to be another short field, but I think we'll get some star power in there.
01:16:21So, yeah, I mean, if wagering-wise, I think Monmouth is the place to be this Saturday.
01:16:27I think that's going to be a really good card.
01:16:29I think you can have some good multi-race bets.
01:16:31I don't think – you know, Jack Christopher is going to be a shortish price, but he's not going to be 2 to 5.
01:16:35You know, I think that you can make money, even if he wins in the multi-races, in the X-Acto or Trifecta, if you get a price underneath.
01:16:43But, yeah, then we also got some star power at Saratoga as well.
01:16:46Big weekend, big weekend across the pond, big weekend here.
01:16:50Del Mar, of course, opens on Friday.
01:16:52We don't want to miss that.
01:16:54Del Mar has a handful of stakes opening weekend.
01:16:57And, you know, we salute Del Mar.
01:16:59They do a lot of great things in terms of safety.
01:17:02They also have big fields.
01:17:04And, obviously, it's going to be packed house on Friday at Del Mar.
01:17:07Still haven't been.
01:17:08That's one of the tracks now that I need to get to.
01:17:11Now that I've crossed Keeneland off my list, got to get to Del Mar one summer.
01:17:15So, TDN, hopefully we can figure out a way to get us there for a live show or something like that.
01:17:20Just an excuse for me to get to Del Mar.
01:17:22Hint, hint, Sue Finlay.
01:17:24All right, so, yeah, tons to look forward to this weekend.
01:17:26We'll be back next week to wrap it all up.
01:17:29The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:17:44If you're interested in having the chance to win an ownership experience in a 2-year-old colt named Riverside,
01:17:49trained by John Sadler, enter West Point's annual Del Mar Challenge.
01:17:53Contestants pick one jockey, one trainer, one horse from each grouping of names
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01:18:00You can learn more at westpointtb.com slash Del Mar Challenge.
01:18:05West Point has a busy weekend coming up at Ellis Park and Saratoga,
01:18:08starting off with Shadow Matter, who runs later today in race 6 at Saratoga.
01:18:12Best of luck to the West Point partners.
01:18:14This weekend, the rest of the Saratoga meet, as I've said before,
01:18:17still looking forward to seeing all those high-priced yearlings turn into 2-year-olds
01:18:21and really get to show their stuff this summer at Saratoga and probably later in the fall as well.
01:18:26Loaded, loaded for bear this year with the babies.
01:18:28We'll be right back with this message from West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:19:02Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:19:06We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:19:09We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:19:11We're always with your horse, every step of the way.
01:19:15When it comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse.
01:19:19Just driving up and down the road every day, there's not a time that I don't look out
01:19:23and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal, the people that come to invest in the game.
01:19:27I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can
01:19:30because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
01:19:35The GDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:19:38If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business could benefit your program,
01:19:42give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:19:44They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own legacy graduate.
01:19:48Brewhouse sold for $30,000 at the 2019 Keeneland November sale.
01:19:53Undefeated in her first two starts, breaking her maiden on debut and winning the Francis Ginter Stakes
01:19:58this past Saturday at Canterbury.
01:20:00I was actually watching that card because there was a Canterbury Pick 5 carryover.
01:20:05And, you know, can't miss that with a 10% takeout.
01:20:08And I saw Brewhouse look very good, now two for two, and obviously has a bright future ahead of her.
01:20:14Also a reminder that the entry deadline for the Keeneland November sale is August 1st.
01:20:18Give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:20:20They will hook you up and they will take care of you for the rest of the sales this year.
01:20:24Keeneland September, Keeneland November, they got your back.
01:20:28This week's Remy cartoon, very fitting.
01:20:30We talked about last week on the show the advent of the penny breakage era in Kentucky,
01:20:36which we're hoping that comes to other jurisdictions, especially here in New York.
01:20:40It's a son talking to his dad, who's of course reading today's entries.
01:20:44And the son says, Dad, my allowance is $5. You pay me $4.80. What gives?
01:20:50Dad says, breakage. That's it.
01:20:52I mean, that's a pretty good analogy.
01:20:54Only bone I would pick is that betting on the horses is harder than anything that kid did for his allowance.
01:20:59That's for damn sure.
01:21:00But we're definitely getting screwed on that, Ed.
01:21:03So shout out to Remy, always having the horse players in mind when he does the cartoons.
01:21:07That's my guy.
01:21:09Rap time.
01:21:13My name is Joe and I'm here to say, John sucks at beats in a major way.
01:21:19I'm sorry, I know this is getting a little silly towards the end of the show.
01:21:22Okay, so that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
01:21:26Don't forget, the Keeneland November deadline is August 1st.
01:21:30You can learn more at november.keeneland.com.
01:21:33I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green, our Green Group Guest of the Week, Andy Serling,
01:21:37producer Patty Wolf, our associate producer Katie Petruniak,
01:21:40and our editors Anthony LaRocca, Aliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:21:44Thank you so much for watching. We'll see you next week.

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1:14:14
Alex Waldrop Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:03:55
Michael Blowen Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:17:41
Sean Tugel Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:47:25
Tom Rooney Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:13:53
Graham Motion Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:26:48
Alan Foreman Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:23:05
Tom Durkin Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:01:46
Brad Cox Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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2:03:25
Wesley Ward Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:11:29
Todd Pletcher Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:22:38
Trainer Todd Fincher Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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1:08:22
Shannon Arvin Joins the TDN Writers' Room
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