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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room podcast.
00:00:32My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:33I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and I also co-host the Down the
00:00:37Stretch radio show with my good friend Dave Johnson.
00:00:40How are y'all doing?
00:00:41I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Meyers Speed Figure Group trying to stay warm here
00:00:47in Minneapolis where it was nine below zero this morning when I got out of bed.
00:00:51Wish it was that here.
00:00:53Zoe Kavlan with First Racing and XBTV and looking to hopefully get back to some normalcy
00:01:00after the past week or so.
00:01:02Well, that's where we want to start today's podcast, especially because we have Zoe here
00:01:06who's right in the middle of the storm, so to speak.
00:01:10We're of course talking about the wildfires in California, which canceled racing last
00:01:14week.
00:01:15And Zoe, first of all, just give us a perspective.
00:01:19Where do you live?
00:01:20Is your property in any danger?
00:01:22And give us your perspective and your take on the situation.
00:01:26All right.
00:01:27Well, I live in North Monrovia and I'm right below the mandatory evacuation line.
00:01:33The power went out.
00:01:34Did it start on Monday or Tuesday?
00:01:36I don't even know what day it is today.
00:01:39But the power, I think, went out Tuesday afternoon and I really didn't know what was going on
00:01:43because the phones weren't working.
00:01:45There was no power.
00:01:47And at about nine o'clock, I called a friend of mine who runs Altadena Stables, who's right
00:01:52in the midst of it.
00:01:54And I'm like, are you okay up there?
00:01:55She's in Sierra Madre.
00:01:57And she was like, well, we're getting evacuated out of my house, but I think the stables are
00:02:02fine.
00:02:03So an hour later I call her and she's like, I'm up here at the stables.
00:02:08It's bad.
00:02:09So I went up to Altadena.
00:02:11I packed my dog, picture of my dead dog, my passport, and three computers just in case.
00:02:18So off I go up to Altadena.
00:02:21It was just unbelievable.
00:02:24At about 1.30 in the morning we made the decision to evacuate the 25 horses out of Altadena
00:02:30Stables.
00:02:31Thankfully, the LA Equestrian Center was available to take as many horses as could possibly get
00:02:37there.
00:02:38But, you know, Santa Anita was on evacuation watch.
00:02:41It looked like it was much closer than it was.
00:02:44If you look at the pictures, it just looks like there is a burning hellhole of fire barreling
00:02:50towards Santa Anita.
00:02:53And that wasn't the case.
00:02:54It was very, very smoky.
00:02:55They had everything lined up to evacuate.
00:02:57And bear in mind, there were tractor trailers tipping over on the freeway.
00:03:01I have never in my lifetime had Santa Ana winds that bad here in Southern California.
00:03:09Trucks were tipping over.
00:03:10So if you were going to evacuate horses, you needed to be mindful and careful of that
00:03:14as well.
00:03:15And that was part of the problem at Santa Anita.
00:03:18They stayed.
00:03:19Everything is fine here.
00:03:20The Altadena Stable horses shipped out.
00:03:23There were several stables of horses that got burnt to the ground.
00:03:27Fortunately, as far as I know, they got all the horses out.
00:03:31Eaton Ranch, which is up there in the basin, that burnt to the ground.
00:03:35Thirty horses evacuated out of there.
00:03:37Williams, they burnt to the ground.
00:03:39Zorphean Ranch burnt to the ground.
00:03:41All of these places around Altadena, which is literally two miles from Santa Anita.
00:03:47It's bad.
00:03:48And it looks like a war zone.
00:03:50As of now, I've had the news on this morning that Eaton Fire, we filmed this on Tuesday,
00:03:56has burnt over 14,000 acres.
00:03:59They are 35% contained, but we're expecting some more wind tonight, Tuesday night into
00:04:05Wednesday.
00:04:07And then the Palisades Fire.
00:04:08Who thought?
00:04:09I mean, you think living on the beach in Malibu, you will be safe from a fire, right?
00:04:14All of those multi-million dollar mansions burnt to the ground.
00:04:19They are at 23,000 acres and 17% contained.
00:04:23It is unbelievable.
00:04:26So I was watching the network news yesterday afternoon, and they were talking about the
00:04:31outpouring of support that citizens in California are giving to those who were displaced by
00:04:37the fire.
00:04:38All this food, all this clothing, all these other needs.
00:04:44And right there on the national news, one of the largest distribution centers where
00:04:48people could come and pick up this stuff for free was Santa Anita in the parking lot.
00:04:53That would be amazing.
00:04:55It was amazing.
00:04:56Management made the decision to cancel racing, partly because of the air quality, which was
00:05:01actually okay.
00:05:02But I mean, these horses have been breathing it in for four or five days prior to it being
00:05:07okay.
00:05:08And the fact that we're staging SoCal Edison, we've got donation drives here.
00:05:13There've been thousands of people in and out.
00:05:16It makes me believe in humanity.
00:05:18I like four-legged people.
00:05:20I don't have much time for a lot of two-legged people.
00:05:23I'll tolerate you, but my heart is with the four-legged foes, believe it or not.
00:05:30The outpouring of people and reach, people like calling me from England, are you okay?
00:05:36Where can we send money?
00:05:37People donating food.
00:05:38I mean, I know several people.
00:05:41A lot of friends of mine have lost their homes.
00:05:43Some poor woman up in Altadena, she watched her house burn down on the news.
00:05:49She managed to get up there and she had a travel trailer.
00:05:52So she was like, well, I'll come back.
00:05:54I'll get my travel trailer out of there.
00:05:56Some asshole stole her travel trailer.
00:05:59Not only do we have to deal with the fires and the wind, you've got looters.
00:06:03So the National Guard has been called in here and they are protecting people's property.
00:06:07Could you imagine someone stealing your travel trailer when your house is burnt to the ground?
00:06:14So I mean, humanity has been great, but obviously there are those bad eggs everywhere, but it's
00:06:20going to take a lot of rebuilding.
00:06:22Altadena is gone, completely gone.
00:06:24It will be like Malibu in Hawaii.
00:06:27You saw the devastation there.
00:06:29That's what it is.
00:06:30Lahaina.
00:06:31Yeah.
00:06:32Yeah.
00:06:33Yeah.
00:06:34Lahaina.
00:06:35It's a war zone.
00:06:36Zoe, there's a lot more important things in horse racing when we talk about the story,
00:06:41much of which you just touched on and gave us a great take on everything that's going
00:06:45on.
00:06:46But what about Santa Anita?
00:06:47Now we are, again, we're recording this on Tuesday.
00:06:50So by the time you're watching it, the news could change.
00:06:53What is the prospect for Santa Anita running this weekend?
00:06:56Or if not this weekend, when?
00:06:58We're running on Thursday.
00:07:00We've got makeup days.
00:07:01The air is good.
00:07:03We're still going to have the donation drives in the South parking lot.
00:07:07You wouldn't believe the amount of stuff they've got there.
00:07:10It is truly remarkable.
00:07:11So that's still going on.
00:07:13Thursday, we will start at 12 noon with 10 races.
00:07:17Entries are already out.
00:07:18Friday, eight races, 12.30.
00:07:21Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, we'll be starting at 11.30.
00:07:25And a lot of money is, we're going to raise some money for donations to the fire victims
00:07:33as well.
00:07:34Santa Anita is big on the forefront of doing as much as they can for the local community
00:07:39that surrounds us here.
00:07:40So we're running and we're going to give some back as well.
00:07:44And we're going to talk to Pete Syberl a little bit later on in First Things First and talk
00:07:48about more that Santa Anita is doing.
00:07:51And we'll also be talking later on in this podcast to trainer Owen Hardy, whose home
00:07:55is also right in the war zone, so to speak.
00:07:57Of course, we have some more pleasant things to talk to him about, including his two very
00:08:02good three-year-olds that he has on the way to the Kentucky Derby.
00:08:06All right, Zoe, thank God you're safe.
00:08:08Stay safe.
00:08:09Stay out of trouble.
00:08:10And it was very well said what you said about the goodness of people.
00:08:16It's good to see this.
00:08:17I'll tell you one thing, Bill.
00:08:20It's a bad time to be doing dry January.
00:08:24I haven't succumbed.
00:08:25I have I have friends that have fallen off the wagon and I am steadfast.
00:08:30So good for you.
00:08:32OK, good for you.
00:08:33I would have bet the the over on that, by the way.
00:08:36So anyway.
00:08:37All right.
00:08:38Like I say, kind of an awkward segue.
00:08:40But another thing that I wanted to turn our attention to, T.D. Thornton had what I thought
00:08:45was a very interesting story in the Thoroughbred Daily News last week on deals with the number
00:08:50of trainers that are active in the sport.
00:08:53And he had some very good statistics.
00:08:57If you started just one horse that makes you an active trainer in 2024, the number was
00:09:03down four point two seven percent to three thousand eight hundred and eighty six active
00:09:09trainers.
00:09:10Ten years ago, from ten years ago, it was down thirty seven point nine percent.
00:09:16Another one that he had, he says that twenty three two thousand three hundred and fifteen
00:09:19trainers, fifty nine point five percent of the total did not earn one hundred thousand
00:09:25dollars in stable earnings.
00:09:27Take that into account.
00:09:28Some people might make a little bit of money off their day rate.
00:09:31It's not where trainers make money, make money off winning races and collecting purses.
00:09:35So fifty nine point five percent of the trainers, their take from their earnings was ten thousand
00:09:42dollars or less.
00:09:43And Randy, you know, this is nothing that is a surprise.
00:09:47But just to see these numbers in front of us, it's, you know, the thing we've been talking
00:09:51about, the super trainers get bigger and bigger and bigger all the time.
00:09:54The rich get richer.
00:09:56Thoroughbred Racing needs a guy with five horses as well.
00:10:01These people obviously can't make a decent living in this game and are getting out to
00:10:06do something else.
00:10:07And it's it's it's both sad and scary to me.
00:10:10Yeah.
00:10:11Not only am I not surprised, I'm a little surprised that it's not worse than it is when
00:10:16I saw the stats.
00:10:17You know, I mean, when you when you consider that since 1990, the full crop in North America
00:10:22is down fifty seven percent.
00:10:26And that's not really having much of an impact on the top level horses, which are still,
00:10:31you know, the Curlins in the end to mischiefs.
00:10:34The demand for those is as much as ever.
00:10:36They're still breeding and they're still selling them.
00:10:38It's the lower end of the market, right?
00:10:40The Illinois bred full crop is down eighty seven percent in the last 20 years.
00:10:46New Jersey, seventy three percent, Florida breads, seventy three percent and so on and
00:10:52so on.
00:10:53That's where the little guys come in.
00:10:54Right.
00:10:55It's not it's a double whammy.
00:10:56It's not just that there aren't enough horses to go around and the super trainers are taking
00:11:01a lot of the better horses.
00:11:03It's that the costs have skyrocketed so much for these trainers.
00:11:08Not only are they having trouble making the same amount of purse money that they did,
00:11:11even though the purses are higher, but the expenses are through the roof, the workers
00:11:15comp and everything like that.
00:11:17And then the hassle with all the medication stuff going on right now, it's good for the
00:11:22sport to get as much medication out of this as you can.
00:11:25But the reality is that a lot of these trainers are one unintended positive test away from
00:11:32financial ruin.
00:11:34So I think a lot of trainers that were in the business are now just deciding, you know,
00:11:39I'm not making enough money.
00:11:41I can make more money doing something else as much as I love the horses.
00:11:43It's just not worth it.
00:11:44Hey, to say it, who'd want to be a horse trainer?
00:11:49It's a it's a headache.
00:11:50It's not like you're going to make a lot of money unless you're Brad Cox, Chad Brown,
00:11:55Steve Smooson, you know, those major three trainers, Todd Pletcher.
00:12:01It's an impossible task and it's going to get worse and the super trainers are going
00:12:05to prevail because if you have one horse and you don't know a whole lot about racing, you
00:12:12know, Todd Pletcher, you know, Chad Brown, you're like, Oh, who should I send my horse
00:12:15to?
00:12:16They all cost about the same.
00:12:18The cost of training is the same whether you go to Joe Schmoe or whether you go to
00:12:23Todd Pletcher.
00:12:24It doesn't differ that much if you're at an A-tier track.
00:12:27So you're going to go to Todd Pletcher because you want to tell your friends, Hey, I've got
00:12:31a horse with Todd Pletcher.
00:12:32I've got a horse with Bob Baffert.
00:12:34I get to talk to them.
00:12:35If you're going to spend three, four grand a month, why wouldn't you want the affiliation
00:12:40with the country's top trainers?
00:12:42I can't see a way around it.
00:12:44The people that know the industry a little bit better may say, well, I've got a filly
00:12:48who needs a little bit one-on-one attention.
00:12:51I'm going to give this horse to this person and not the person with 300 horses.
00:12:57I don't know a way around it unless you cap the stall limit.
00:13:02Randy's always said she doesn't know a way around it.
00:13:04I don't either.
00:13:05Is there any, there doesn't appear to be any solution to this.
00:13:08Now you look, as far as the rise of the super trainers go, here's, here's my idea.
00:13:13Here's what I think should be done.
00:13:14It's going to be very difficult to cap stall space simply because now there's so many auxiliary
00:13:20training centers out there that a trainer can have a hundred horses at the track, can
00:13:24have a hundred horses here, a hundred horses there.
00:13:26If you want to do this and you really are serious about, you know, diminishing the super
00:13:32trainer influence, what you have to do is cap the number of individual horses that a
00:13:38trainer can start at a meeting.
00:13:41That way it covers horses stabled anywhere, right?
00:13:45You can't just go by stall space.
00:13:47You have to go by the number of horses that these trainers are actually entering and racing.
00:13:53And that also means...
00:13:54Not total starters, not total starters, but individual horses.
00:13:58And that also means that the racetracks, which we can't possibly ever seem to do, have to
00:14:02work together because if racetrack number A says, Hey Todd, you can have 40 starters
00:14:09and racetrack number B goes, Hey Todd, come over here.
00:14:12You can have as many as you want me.
00:14:14Come on over.
00:14:15Exactly.
00:14:16So it's an impossible task.
00:14:20The TDN Riders' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:14:23The Keeneland January sale.
00:14:25It may have been cold, but the prices opened with a bang on Monday.
00:14:30They started with a pair of $700,000 mares and a 100% increase on medium, 100%.
00:14:38That is amazing.
00:14:39The average was up over 11% and that is very positive news indeed, as the sale does continue
00:14:45for the next couple of days.
00:14:47We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:14:50At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:15:01Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:15:09Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:15:13Not for our sake, but for theirs, for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:15:21Now the fastest horse of the week brought to you this week by one of those fast stallions
00:15:26at Windstar Farm, Cogburn.
00:15:29When he was a racehorse last year, Windstar liked to call him the fastest horse in the
00:15:32world, and now they like to call him the fastest sire in the world.
00:15:37Last season, the World Thoroughbred Rankings pegged Cogburn at a rating of 120, making
00:15:42him the best sprinter in the world.
00:15:45He ran the fastest buyer speed figure in North America in 2024, 114.
00:15:51Since buyers are only done in North America, you could say he ran the fastest buyer in
00:15:54the world at 59.80.
00:15:57That's how fast he ran five and a half furlongs, the fastest ever.
00:16:02And yes, yeah, he was beaten in the Breeders' Cup, but he also got the worst ride of two
00:16:06days in the Breeders' Cup, but we won't focus on that.
00:16:08Cogburn, meanwhile, is now at stud.
00:16:11He has booked full at Windstar for 2025.
00:16:15Now fastest horse of the week.
00:16:18We've never done this before.
00:16:20A lot of racetracks didn't run this past week due to obviously what happened in Southern
00:16:24California due to weather, Oakland, Aqueduct.
00:16:28So the fastest horse of the week ran on Sunday in a $10,000 claiming race at Aqueduct.
00:16:35His name was Quick Hammer.
00:16:36It was the fourth race on Sunday.
00:16:38He won that race by nine and a quarter lengths.
00:16:41Buyer speed figure of 96 for that.
00:16:45Also claimed out of that race by owner trainer Linda Rice.
00:16:49So Linda Rice will be running Quick Hammer back and he'll get a lot of attention based
00:16:54on that 96 buyer speed figure, the fastest of the week.
00:17:02Welcome in now the Gainesway guest of the week, Owen Hardy, trainer with a couple of
00:17:06really nice three year olds on their way to the Kentucky Derby, a lot going on in Owen's
00:17:11world right now, but the bad news, of course, is that he's based in California and like
00:17:15Zoe Cabman, he's had to worry 24 seven about the fires.
00:17:19Owen, tell us about your personal situation.
00:17:22How's your house?
00:17:24What's going on at your property?
00:17:26I was one of the lucky ones.
00:17:28My house survived.
00:17:29A lot of my neighbors didn't.
00:17:31It's been a very traumatic time.
00:17:33You know, I don't want to feel selfish.
00:17:35You know, it's been hard on me and my family.
00:17:37But when you think about the people, the thousands of families that have been just
00:17:41completely upended, I know they have it so much worse.
00:17:46So you were out there at one point, correct me if I'm wrong, with a water hose and a
00:17:50baseball bat or whatever else you needed to try to ward off any potential looting.
00:17:56Tell us about how all that went down.
00:17:58Well, we evacuated on Tuesday night.
00:18:01So it was a week ago today and we got a phone call.
00:18:04I'd actually flown back from Florida on that morning.
00:18:08I was meant to fly to Ireland on the following day and see my parents.
00:18:12And I spoke with my wife from Salt Lake City and she sent me some video of the Santa
00:18:18Anna winds. And we've lived up there a long time.
00:18:21We've seen a lot of Santa Anna winds, but we've never seen anything like that.
00:18:24So we got home.
00:18:26It's really blowing.
00:18:27I walked out around the neighborhood that night.
00:18:30It was it was howling and you could see the smoke from the Palisades fire in the
00:18:33distance. So this would have been about five o'clock.
00:18:37My wife wasn't feeling well.
00:18:38She went to bed early and I got an alert on the telephone, I'm sure, like Zoe did.
00:18:44And I just I looked at it.
00:18:46I thought it was going to reference the Palisades fire and I saw it said Eaton
00:18:50Canyon. I thought, well, for a second, I thought that must be a mistake.
00:18:53It's got to be a misprint or whatever.
00:18:56So I went outside and I looked in the direction of Eaton Canyon and I could see a
00:19:01huge ball of fire.
00:19:03And I thought, well, you know, it's an evacuation warning, not an evacuation
00:19:08notice. I thought, well, I'll just sit on this for a bit and see which direction it
00:19:12goes. I didn't want to wake up my wife.
00:19:14She wasn't feeling good.
00:19:16So within another 20 minutes now, we got a mandatory evacuation notice.
00:19:20So I go back out the front door, take another look in that direction, and now you
00:19:24can tell it's just a wall of flame heading in our direction.
00:19:28So I woke up my wife, scrambled around, grabbed some things.
00:19:34One really smart thing she told me to do is make a hotel reservation.
00:19:37So we did that in the embassy suites, headed in that direction.
00:19:42But when we got there, all the power was down.
00:19:44So they had no access to hotel reservations.
00:19:48And by now, the foot traffic coming in the door is just phenomenal.
00:19:52So we we didn't have a room there, went across the road, couldn't get a room
00:19:55anywhere. So now there's nowhere to go.
00:19:59So we decided to go back up, see how bad the problem is and and then reassess, see
00:20:05what happens. So we went home.
00:20:08She went back to lay down.
00:20:0930 minutes later, I looked out and it is literally at the top of our hill.
00:20:15So we got in the car, drove down, hung out in the parking lot of McDonald's for a
00:20:20bit, trying to figure out which direction we're going to go.
00:20:22Luckily, we got a place in Glendale, which is about 20 minutes away.
00:20:27Went there, followed the fire on the TV, didn't get much sleep, got up early in the
00:20:32morning and drove back to the house.
00:20:34And by the grace of God, it was still standing.
00:20:37And I'm looking, I just can't believe my luck.
00:20:40And I see that there's a tree on fire beside the house.
00:20:42So I grabbed the fire.
00:20:43There's no fireman around. There's nothing we could do.
00:20:45Just grab the hose and put it out ourselves and then went around the neighborhood.
00:20:50That was one of my neighbors across the street, Doug himself.
00:20:54Myself went garden to garden in the neighborhood and, you know, we saw anything that
00:20:58was sparking or burning.
00:20:59We put that out and that was it.
00:21:01And then once you were in by mid afternoon, you weren't getting in or getting out.
00:21:07So, you know, now we had to worry about looters.
00:21:10So I just didn't leave.
00:21:11And there was some it was easier for a few days to get in and out because, you know,
00:21:16they were farming and the police were so busy.
00:21:19But then they started blocking up all the access roads.
00:21:22So I had to rely on Irish charm and wit to get in.
00:21:25But was there every night and patrolling the neighborhood with my little baseball bat.
00:21:32That's a long story cut short.
00:21:35What was the general feeling at Santa Anita at that time?
00:21:39Because I was dealing with horses shipping out of Altadena and I wound up at the early
00:21:43equestrian center, but I know they had everything in place.
00:21:47And if people wanted to evacuate from Santa Anita, they were going to pay for them and
00:21:51get them out. But like you said, I have never seen winds like we had that night.
00:21:56It was insane.
00:21:58Yeah, if you want, I could send you some video of of what we had and you could see for
00:22:04yourselves. It was it was terrible, you know, and there were people going to
00:22:10I'd say Santa Anita really stepped up on this one.
00:22:13They offered to ship horses to where they needed to go.
00:22:16Or if you wanted to ship them and they opened up part of the clubhouse, whatever, if you
00:22:21needed shelter, they've opened up the parking lot.
00:22:25Now there's thousands of people coming in and out all day, every day, getting getting
00:22:29clothing and and, you know, help with whatever.
00:22:32And Santa Anita has really gone above and beyond on this one.
00:22:36So in one sense, you're in paradise, you're in Southern California, but then in another
00:22:40sense, you've got things like this to worry about.
00:22:42Does it does it impact at all what you think long term about where you want to live?
00:22:49Things like that. A lot of us that don't live in California wonder what's going through
00:22:53the mind of people that right now have been in the middle of this.
00:22:57I can't speak for everybody, but the majority of people I speak to and watch on the TV
00:23:04say they're going to rebuild and and carry on.
00:23:06And I think Californians, it's it's you either love it or you hate it.
00:23:11And I love it. My wife loves this.
00:23:13My family, my friends love it.
00:23:14And we're not going anywhere.
00:23:17Well, let's segue to a much more pleasant subject now, because you have, as I mentioned
00:23:23earlier, not just one, but two very nice three year olds that look like they're on the
00:23:27road to the Kentucky Derby, first of which is First Resort, who won the Kentucky Jockey
00:23:31Club. Did you happen to see the Thoroughbred Daily News when TD Thornton ranked him number
00:23:36one in his rankings?
00:23:38And what'd you think of that?
00:23:39Well, it's nice, but it's it's that was the first Saturday in January, not the first
00:23:44Saturday in May.
00:23:45And I'd like to be ranked number one on the second Saturday in May.
00:23:52How is he doing?
00:23:53And what's the what's the immediate plan for First Resort?
00:23:57Showed a lot of tactical speed in that Kentucky Jockey Club really put him in a good spot.
00:24:02Yeah, he's doing fantastic.
00:24:04Unfortunately, he's in Kentucky and they've had a bad spell of weather.
00:24:08So he's he's probably missed five or six days of training.
00:24:13And hopefully I'll get him back on the work tab on Friday and then look for a spot, maybe
00:24:18a Gulfstream Park or Tampa.
00:24:22What kind of horse is he like to be around?
00:24:24Like to be around because you train the damn fair maiden.
00:24:27I can remember her winning the grade one La Brea.
00:24:30But does he have any similarities?
00:24:32Is he easy?
00:24:33Is he tough?
00:24:34She was pretty tough, was she?
00:24:36She was she was tough mentally.
00:24:37The only similarity they really have is their speed.
00:24:41They both have natural speed.
00:24:44And she was she was pretty flighty, narrowheaded, chestnut filly.
00:24:48He doesn't have that at all.
00:24:50He is so laid back, so mellow.
00:24:54He's very kind, very nice to be around.
00:24:57He gets a little aggressive at feed time, which is understandable.
00:25:02And he covers so much ground in the morning when he's training.
00:25:04So he keeps himself very fit.
00:25:06And he's just just very, very fortunate to have this horse.
00:25:10Now, the other one.
00:25:13Yeah, go ahead, Randy.
00:25:14You can talk about Poster.
00:25:16Well, no, I mean, he didn't show the same sort of tactical speed and the rimson that
00:25:20first resort had.
00:25:22And he was last early and then made a nice move at the top of the stretch and opened
00:25:26up and just held on.
00:25:27How do you compare the two same owners?
00:25:29So you can maybe compare the two both good dolphin, both bred by good dolphin.
00:25:34Well, Poster, he's a really, really beautiful, big, strong colt.
00:25:41And he's got the ability to go with that.
00:25:43But he never never struck me as talented as first resort.
00:25:49But in every race, he's improved and he's impressed me.
00:25:53I don't he's going to have distance limitations.
00:25:56He's a bit busier in the mind than first resort, but it doesn't seem to affect him.
00:26:00He's he's very manageable that way.
00:26:04And his first race in the remson of first race, even though he didn't show much speed,
00:26:09he was always cruising.
00:26:11He was always under wraps.
00:26:13He was taking dirt.
00:26:15It didn't seem to phase him.
00:26:17And Flavian had to move a bit sooner than he would have wanted to simply because of
00:26:22where he was and he handled that with stride or some of these.
00:26:27And when he got tackled at the top of the stretch, he he ran all the way to the wire.
00:26:32He was very game, very impressive.
00:26:34When was he going next?
00:26:37I'll probably send him back.
00:26:39He's in the same boat as first resort.
00:26:41They're both a turf.
00:26:42We both missed some time in training.
00:26:45Actually, I've sent him to Keeneland because Keeneland strike.
00:26:48It's a little, little milder down there.
00:26:51And he has access to the training track.
00:26:53The track at Turfway has been frozen solid at four inches of snow on top of it.
00:26:58So the two of them are at Keeneland, at least for a few more days.
00:27:01So we got a good thought at Turfway.
00:27:04And if all goes well, he will go to the withers.
00:27:07And there's these are both good often horses, as you mentioned.
00:27:12They use several different trainers, including yourself.
00:27:15When they give you horses like this, especially good ones like this,
00:27:19do they tell you why they picked you?
00:27:21Or is it just you pick up the phone and say, thank you very much.
00:27:24Send them my way.
00:27:25That's exactly what I do.
00:27:27I'm not going to question why I got them.
00:27:29I'm just grateful I've got them.
00:27:32Well, and you have a long and fruitful relationship with good often that
00:27:36you actually spend a lot of time in Dubai, if I recall.
00:27:38Can you kind of go through your your background with Sheikh Mohammed?
00:27:42Um, I'd say I probably got on his radar when I was working for Bob.
00:27:46Bob's career was just taking off and I was getting a lot of exposure.
00:27:50And Bob wasn't about to give up everything he had to take on the good often two year olds.
00:27:55But I certainly was available and willing to do it.
00:27:59And I spent I initially was just strictly two year olds.
00:28:03And I would spend the winter in Florida or sorry, in Dubai, breaking them, getting them ready.
00:28:09And by the time I got to the States in late April, they were usually half mouth gate, okay.
00:28:17And then once you later in your career,
00:28:21you've still been able to cultivate a really good relationship with good often, correct?
00:28:25Yeah, I've been I've been very fortunate.
00:28:27I try not to give them a reason to fire me.
00:28:29I don't want to make it easier.
00:28:31So that's that's my philosophy.
00:28:34It's that Irish charm.
00:28:35That's what it is.
00:28:36Yeah, I hope it's more than that.
00:28:39Oh, and I honestly don't know how you manage it.
00:28:42I can remember galloping for you 10, 12 years ago when you had
00:28:46a whole stable of two year olds for dolphin that couldn't outrun a fat man.
00:28:51And since you you move around so much, you've got horses all over the place.
00:28:56You basically spend half of your time in Southern California,
00:29:00a quarter of the time on the plane and the rest of the time at either
00:29:03Tampa or Turf Way or somewhere else.
00:29:05I can remember running into you on an airplane.
00:29:07You're sitting there with your training chart,
00:29:10marking it out.
00:29:10You're like, oh, hi, Zoe.
00:29:12How are you doing?
00:29:13How do you manage this going backwards and forwards and backwards and forwards?
00:29:17Because it's not an easy commute.
00:29:19Well, I would say first and foremost, that's probably the reason I'm still married.
00:29:25You know, in reality, we've been married for 36 years in this one.
00:29:28And, you know, it's probably 17 at the amount of time we spend together.
00:29:33I think that's why my wife still tolerates me.
00:29:36And apart from that, you know, I don't think about it.
00:29:39And it doesn't bother me.
00:29:40It's never bothered me.
00:29:41But I think if it did bother me, I certainly couldn't do it.
00:29:44In fact, I'm going to Kentucky tomorrow.
00:29:46I was waiting on this wind event to come through,
00:29:48and it doesn't look like it's going to develop into anything.
00:29:50So she's driving me to the airport in the morning.
00:29:54Oh, and you wear a smile on her face.
00:29:57That's what that is.
00:29:58Delight.
00:30:00When you wear a lot of different hats, including you're the president of the
00:30:03California Thoroughbred Trainers Association, and we could probably spend an entire podcast
00:30:08on what's going on in California with the various
00:30:12situations with the Northern California tracks versus Southern California, etc.
00:30:17Are you worried about the future of racing in California?
00:30:20Or are you thinking that in the long run, everything is going to be okay?
00:30:24And that's a very broad question.
00:30:26But if you could tackle it, please.
00:30:28Well, I think I'd be a fool and a liar if I said I wasn't very,
00:30:33very concerned about the future of California racing.
00:30:36And I think everybody involved in racing globally should be concerned about what's
00:30:41going to happen in California.
00:30:45I'm not sure what the outcome is going to be.
00:30:48You know, obviously, we need to increase purse money in order to attract more horses.
00:30:54Because what's on offer in Kentucky and what's going to be on offer in
00:30:57Belmont is really going to drain an already draining gene pool.
00:31:04I hope there's people a lot smarter than me working on these issues here in California.
00:31:08But it's something that needs to be addressed.
00:31:10And it needs to be addressed very, very promptly.
00:31:13Well, Owen Hardy, I want to thank you very much for being our Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:31:17Good luck on the road to the Kentucky Derby with a poster and first resort.
00:31:22And stay safe in California.
00:31:25And let's hope that everything stays the way it is with your house
00:31:28in standing up.
00:31:29And if I saw you with a baseball bat, I'm not looting, by the way.
00:31:33That would be pretty scary.
00:31:35You're calling up your buddies and say, hey, there's free stuff at the Hardy house.
00:31:42Get up there now.
00:31:44There's this little tall skinny man with a mini bat.
00:31:48Don't worry about him.
00:31:50Oh, and once again, thanks so much for being our guest.
00:31:54And we'll talk to you again soon.
00:31:56All right, guys.
00:31:56It was a pleasure.
00:31:58Thanks, Owen.
00:31:59This week's guest of the week, Owen Hardy, was brought to you by Gainesway, the home
00:32:03to three new stallions for 2025, including Tappit Trice, grade one winning millionaire,
00:32:08won the Bluegrass Stakes, a one point three million dollar yearling back in the day.
00:32:12He was a TD and rising star, a four time graded stakes winner on the dirt.
00:32:17Is he the heir apparent to Tappit?
00:32:19Is Sire at Gainesway Farm?
00:32:20You can find out for a fee in 2025 of just 20,000 dollars.
00:32:25Gainesway power, passion, performance.
00:32:29Say hello to Mooth.
00:32:35It's a one horse race.
00:32:37Very professional and very fast.
00:32:40Mooth rolling home by four in fine style.
00:32:44Mooth, the son of good magic, coming down the stretch at Hot Springs to win it.
00:32:59Well, the smoke has cleared.
00:33:01So in this week's edition of First Things First, I did catch up with Santa Anita's
00:33:06Pete Ciberell to talk about all of the donation efforts going on at Santa Anita.
00:33:14So, Pete, we're in your office and did you stay here with your wife and two dogs?
00:33:24Wow.
00:33:24The first two nights we were here, I had to stick around by the by the track and
00:33:30we hadn't really lined up anything anywhere to go.
00:33:32So this is the most easy accommodation we could get at the time.
00:33:37But we were here the first two nights and then spent the other time in hotels.
00:33:41But my dogs loved running down the track in the middle of the night.
00:33:45They just loved it.
00:33:47So you stayed here.
00:33:48Thankfully, your house was OK.
00:33:50Other people not so lucky.
00:33:52Can you talk about the efforts that Santa Anita has put forward and what is going on
00:33:57in the parking lot?
00:33:58Because it's busy.
00:33:58It's very busy.
00:33:59Lots of moving parts, Zoe.
00:34:01Well, first off, we had we were making arrangements for Southern California Edison to
00:34:05restore power to their like something like 400,000 homes in the area.
00:34:11So they needed a staging area.
00:34:12We call it a lay down yard.
00:34:14We gave them the complete north lot, which is about a million square feet.
00:34:18They've since moved into another lot in the south.
00:34:21Suddenly, I get a call from the city of Pasadena.
00:34:23This is seems so long ago.
00:34:24It's just Friday.
00:34:26City of Pasadena calls me and says, we've got this group.
00:34:29We're picking them out of the Rose Bowl because National Guard's coming in and we're
00:34:33using as an incident command center.
00:34:35They wanted a small, small parcel for a small donation center.
00:34:40And I met the guy, the organizer, his name is Alan G.
00:34:44He was being followed by 75 cars and trucks right behind him.
00:34:48It was like a wagon train and they had nowhere to go.
00:34:50The only good part about canceling racing last weekend was that we could give them more
00:34:55space.
00:34:56And they took up the entire south lot there, 750,000 square feet.
00:35:00So we helped them kind of streamline things.
00:35:02We gave them bike rail.
00:35:03We gave them dumpsters.
00:35:05We gave them tables, chairs, portable lights.
00:35:08And we managed to kind of, it was very organic.
00:35:11And it's just, you've seen the coverage in the news, PBS and CNN and New York Times.
00:35:16It's just exploded.
00:35:18How many people do you think have been through Santa Anita?
00:35:21God, I think Saturday alone was like 100,000 people and Sunday was even bigger.
00:35:27So easily, you know, three, 400,000 people.
00:35:30We're going to continue this through Friday.
00:35:33Well done.
00:35:34You look like you need a nap.
00:35:35I need, yeah, coffee helps.
00:35:37Thanks so much, Pete.
00:35:38Thank you, Zoe.
00:35:44Thanks so much to Pete Syveral.
00:35:46Do want to remind you that racing does continue this Thursday at Santa Anita.
00:35:51We will have a Thursday through holiday Monday racing.
00:35:55So check the website for post times.
00:35:57I do believe on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, we will have early post times of 1130 AM.
00:36:05Well, the road to the Triple Crown on the road to the Kentucky Derby in Kentucky Oaks,
00:36:09it's still a little early, but it's heating up a little bit.
00:36:12We have two big races this weekend at the fairgrounds.
00:36:16We have the Silver Bullet Day, a prep, of course,
00:36:18for the fairgrounds Oaks and then leading to the Kentucky Oaks.
00:36:22And then the LeCompte Stakes, which is on the road to the Kentucky Derby.
00:36:27Fairgrounds nine is the Fasig-Tipton race, a very interesting field in here
00:36:31as both these races are interesting.
00:36:33One thing I noticed before I make my pick and give some thoughts,
00:36:36Ken McPeak has three horses in this race.
00:36:39And I think that's significant because it looks to me like owners are catching on to this guy.
00:36:44And, you know, he's always had a decent size stable,
00:36:46but he's never had the 200 horses that, you know, some of the super, super duper guys have had.
00:36:51And all of a sudden he's all over the place.
00:36:53And I am going to pick Ken McPeak in the Silver Bullet Day with Golden Gamble.
00:36:59Last time out in the untappable stakes ran second as the even money favorite,
00:37:03but the pace was very slow.
00:37:0524 and 349 closed very well to finish second, beating two and a half lengths.
00:37:11That'll be my pick, but it's a tough race.
00:37:13McPeak also has Gowell's Delight, a five and a half length winner of a
00:37:18maiden special weight race at the fairgrounds.
00:37:20That horse obviously has a chance.
00:37:22And Brad Cox will be in the running with Chasen as well as California Sunset.
00:37:28Brad Cox, obviously all is dangerous in these races as well, Zoe.
00:37:32He most certainly is, but I'm going a different way indeed.
00:37:36And I'm going to go with one horse trained by Whit Beckman.
00:37:40Now Whit Beckman has two horses.
00:37:42He's a former assistant trainer to Chad Brown.
00:37:44Good horseman.
00:37:45He's winning at 36% down there at the fairgrounds.
00:37:48And he has Simply Joking in there who ran an 84 by a speed figure,
00:37:53breaking her maiden in a stakes race.
00:37:56She's a PA bred, yay for PA bred.
00:37:59So I can see Randy like doing this because he might be talking about Simply Joking
00:38:05this time next week.
00:38:07That was a very, very good race indeed.
00:38:09Now she'll have to handle a few things going around two turns for the first time,
00:38:13but anytime you can win like that at the fairgrounds, it's a good thing.
00:38:17Win over the track, 84 by a speed figure.
00:38:20She's by practical joke out of an E-Dubai mare.
00:38:23Why not have Whit Beckman, who is winning races in bunches at the fairgrounds?
00:38:28Yeah, and that 84 by her speed figure, I mean, that race was even better than the
00:38:33by her speed figure would indicate.
00:38:35Because at the start, Simply Joking broke into the side of the gate,
00:38:39got away last in the six horse field, I think it was.
00:38:43Then Jamie Torres was on her and she ran up.
00:38:47It wasn't a particularly fast pace to catch up.
00:38:49And she ran into the pack and about the half mile pole had to check out.
00:38:53That cost her a length or two.
00:38:55Then she steered to the outside, was five wide into the stretch and went on and finished
00:38:59strongly and got up in the last few strides.
00:39:01So it was even more impressive, I think, than the speed figure would indicate.
00:39:06The two turns by practical joke, I really don't know what to think about that.
00:39:10The damn imply was a Pennsylvania bred who knocked out three quarters of a million dollars,
00:39:16mostly going long in PA bred races.
00:39:19So that's going to help Simply Joking's chances.
00:39:21The other one in there, I like the other Kenny McPeak,
00:39:24Gowell's delight to put with Simply Joking and exact as Kenny McPeak doesn't win very
00:39:30often with first time starters.
00:39:32His overall percentage is like 16 percent.
00:39:36Half of that is his percentage with first timers, eight percent.
00:39:39It's not his M.O.
00:39:40He uses the first lifetime start to sort of teach horses to give them an education and
00:39:45then really starts to crank them up after that.
00:39:47And Gowell's delight won first time out and won impressively first time out at the
00:39:52fairgrounds going around two turns.
00:39:54Didn't beat the strongest field, but did it the right way.
00:39:57She's eight to one in the program line.
00:39:59So I think she's got a hell of a shot.
00:40:01How about that pedigree by practical joke out of an Indian Charlie Mare,
00:40:05yet she wins by five going two turns in her debut.
00:40:09So I guess I have practical jokes on both halves of my exact there.
00:40:13Randy, I'm confused about something in my daily racing form past performance fairgrounds.
00:40:18They enter like three weeks before the race.
00:40:20So things may have changed.
00:40:22I am simply joking with a 79 buyer.
00:40:24Was that is that figure adjusted or changed at some point?
00:40:27It was adjusted.
00:40:28Yeah.
00:40:29Initially, it appeared that the track may have gotten faster from the beginning of the
00:40:34day to the end of the day.
00:40:35And then the more we looked at it, it was just a difference really between sprints and
00:40:40routes.
00:40:40Sometimes the wind or whatever can cause the routes to be faster or slower than the sprint
00:40:45races.
00:40:46So we just stuck with the variant and we grouped the two sprint stakes races together.
00:40:53One of them, the winner of the other race is going to be running in the LeCompte.
00:40:58Tough catch, right?
00:40:59He ran a few races earlier.
00:41:01He ran six furlongs in 110.48 and got an 81.
00:41:06Simply joking, ran 110.33.
00:41:09Ran faster.
00:41:10Shouldn't get a higher number.
00:41:11And the adjusted numbers reflect that.
00:41:14Do you need help on your Buy a Speed Figure team?
00:41:16It seems very interesting.
00:41:18You know, I could use another job.
00:41:20I could use another job.
00:41:21If you need some help, just you can swing some my way.
00:41:25How good are you with numbers and spreadsheets and feet per second and deceleration and things
00:41:30like that?
00:41:34Silence.
00:41:36Okay.
00:41:38Can I watch some races?
00:41:42That answers the question.
00:41:46Zoe, you're not getting hired.
00:41:47Dream on.
00:41:50We move now to the male race, which is the LeCompte.
00:41:52Once again, Kenny McPeak, two horses in there.
00:41:55The favorite will be, I imagine, Bilt, who is the 13 horse.
00:42:00I'm going to try to beat this horse for a couple of reasons.
00:42:02First of all, 13 posts going two turns at fairgrounds.
00:42:06Not something you can't completely overcome, but I don't want a horse in the 13 posts.
00:42:11It's going to be a low price.
00:42:12I also think the horse is the bounce candidate.
00:42:14Be huge in the gunrunner stakes for Wayne Catalano and Jereph Lugberry.
00:42:19But got a 92 buyer that day and a big, huge improvement.
00:42:23So I'm going for my man, Kenny McPeak, with maximum promise.
00:42:27Hasn't been seen since August 3rd at Ellis Park.
00:42:31But this horse broke his maiden.
00:42:33He's by maximum security.
00:42:34Broke his maiden by 14 and a half lengths.
00:42:37And it's notable two things.
00:42:39That was the first time on dirt after turf start.
00:42:41Also, first time with blinkers.
00:42:43Obviously, stepping up.
00:42:44Got a good 83 buyer number in there.
00:42:48Kenny McPeak certainly has a lot of confidence if he's bringing this horse back in the stakes
00:42:52race instead of allowance condition.
00:42:54So I'm going for a Ken McPeak double at the fairgrounds on Saturday.
00:43:00Wow, you're riding that bus.
00:43:02Go on.
00:43:03Um, I was actually rather interested in a 10 to 1 shot in here.
00:43:08And that's tough catch.
00:43:09The Great Gilding by complexity out of a broken Valmeier.
00:43:13I can remember this horse in Saratoga.
00:43:16Dallas Stewart started off the meet very, very strongly this summer.
00:43:19Brought some in.
00:43:21And he doesn't often win first time out.
00:43:23But this horse was impressive.
00:43:24Sprinting five and a half furlongs.
00:43:26Has yet to go around two turns.
00:43:29But judging by the pedigree and the way this horse looks on the racetrack, I don't believe
00:43:33it's going to be a problem.
00:43:35Tough catch.
00:43:3510 to 1.
00:43:36Louis Sires aboard.
00:43:37He was aboard for the Sugar Bowl handicap last time out.
00:43:41So I like tough catch.
00:43:42I do like built.
00:43:44I am concerned about the post.
00:43:46But this horse has speed and can leave the gate and get over.
00:43:50You're not breaking completely on the turn there.
00:43:52So I don't believe it's going to be too much of a problem.
00:43:55He's by hard spun out of a curling mare.
00:43:57He's bred to run all year.
00:44:01As long as he wants.
00:44:02Can't even get my words out today.
00:44:05And I love the name.
00:44:06I mean, Eclipse Thoroughbreds does a marvelous job coming up with some serious names.
00:44:11Because that is a fantastic name.
00:44:13Built.
00:44:14Just like you think of a big, strong colt.
00:44:16You're just like built.
00:44:18Much like you, Randy.
00:44:21Here you go, Zoe.
00:44:23So, look, built is the kind of horse that you're supposed to try to bet against.
00:44:30Okay, he wins the gunrunner when he's got a lot of speed,
00:44:35but he was the only speed in the race that day.
00:44:37And that enabled Jareth Loveberry, who basically he was subbing for Cory Lanery,
00:44:42who missed his flight to get from Kentucky to Louisiana.
00:44:45So Loveberry picks up the mount and just walks the dog,
00:44:48as they say, on the front end in there,
00:44:50because there was nobody in a five-horse field to run with him.
00:44:53So he gets away with 24.64 and 49.23 for the quarter and a half.
00:45:00Now, you can't totally dismiss him because of that.
00:45:03Because number one, I don't think he has to have the lead to win.
00:45:06And number two, at the top of the stretch, he was only a half length in front of magnitude.
00:45:14Disco, there wasn't Disco Time.
00:45:16There was another Brad Cox horse that was up there with him.
00:45:19Admiral Dennis was up there close to him as well,
00:45:21who was the four to five favorite in there.
00:45:24And then built through in a quarter mile from the 5.16 to the 16th pole in 23.50 seconds.
00:45:31He just opened up on the competition and left him for dead.
00:45:36But now he's got post 13.
00:45:37I share your opinion, Zoe, that with his speed,
00:45:41he's got enough to be able to get in and probably in stock innovator,
00:45:45who's going to go to the lead from post position number one,
00:45:47almost certainly with Jamie Torres.
00:45:49Bill to probably be sitting second right outside of innovator.
00:45:52But he's going to be so heavily bet, I think,
00:45:56off of that 92 buyer speed figure that the combination of everything means
00:46:00that you're supposed to at least try to take a shot against him.
00:46:03And I share Bill's opinion about maximum promise.
00:46:07I haven't talked to McPeak.
00:46:09I don't know why the layoff from August until now,
00:46:13but it's not necessarily a horrible thing
00:46:17because he had a big race at Ellis Park to win by 14 links.
00:46:20He has a nice, steady work pattern since he got back to the work tab
00:46:25shortly after Thanksgiving.
00:46:26There wasn't a bias that day at Ellis Park.
00:46:28I went back and looked at all the charts that day.
00:46:30If anything, more horses were winning off the rail than were running on the rail.
00:46:35And this is just the typical Ken McPeak kind of horse.
00:46:38First time out going long on the turf.
00:46:41And the horse has a really good turf pedigree on the female side,
00:46:45which is like I had him like 15 links back at one point going into the backstretch.
00:46:50And then he comes at Ellis on the dirt and draws the rail and is on the lead in 22 and change.
00:46:57The difference between his first and second starts, which is typical McPeak, was huge.
00:47:02So assuming that built is the kind of horse that you can take a shot against,
00:47:05then I think maximum promise with a good post position would be a good horse to try with.
00:47:10Comes out of a live race, too, with extradition coming back to win with Sias aboard.
00:47:15Jackson Rohr out of there came back to win.
00:47:18The third place finish was second in his next start.
00:47:20So that race is really livened up over the course of the past couple of months.
00:47:25It's an interesting race.
00:47:27So where will the LeComp winner show up on the Caesars
00:47:31winter book odds that are now out?
00:47:33And you have the Kentucky Derby future wager.
00:47:36I think the Derby odds out of Las Vegas are a better gauge.
00:47:41For one thing, they're not limited to the amount of horses that can be put into the pot.
00:47:46So no surprise, Barnes is the 10 to 1 favorite.
00:47:50Sovereignty, I know both you guys like that horse, is 15 to 1 second choice.
00:47:55This really surprised me.
00:47:56Citizen Bull, the Breeders' Cup juvenile winner, sixth choice at 22 to 1.
00:48:02And first resort, we just talked to Owen Hardy.
00:48:05The number one pick of TD Thornton in the Thoroughbred Daily News Derby top 10, 40 to 1.
00:48:11Here's another one that I was interested in, Rodriguez, 25 to 1.
00:48:15Having said that, I think anybody that bets the Derby in January is crazy
00:48:19because three quarters of these horses will likely have something go wrong
00:48:22and not make it to the starting gate.
00:48:24But nonetheless, if you put a gun to my head, I think that I would bet Rodriguez at 25 to 1.
00:48:29I can't disagree with you.
00:48:32That seems logical to me.
00:48:34Yeah, I'm typically not a big fan of the Vegas lines.
00:48:39I mean, it's too many times I've seen them just be so far off.
00:48:44And I've come to the conclusion that because they probably don't take a lot of money,
00:48:50they probably cap the amount of money that somebody can bet.
00:48:53They're not really going to be on the hook for much if they make a mistake.
00:48:58So I just don't know how much attention they pay to it.
00:49:02You know, because I've seen so many times when you look at those,
00:49:06and they just, to me, they just don't reflect reality.
00:49:09So I mean, Rodriguez is a perfect example.
00:49:12I mean, he certainly should be a lot lower than 25 to 1.
00:49:16But they've still got to get there.
00:49:17That's the thing I hate about the future book is that they have to make it to the race.
00:49:21And honestly, on the day of the race, you know, if you get there,
00:49:25maybe you're going to get 4 to 1, 5 to 1, 6 to 1 better odds
00:49:30and know that your horse is going to run.
00:49:34You see that a lot with the future book done by Churchill Downs.
00:49:38You'll see horses that people bet on in January at 8 to 1.
00:49:41They make it to the derby and they're 14 to 1.
00:49:44And so I mean, we're all in agreement.
00:49:47It's fun to talk about, but save your money for the sixth race at Mahoning Valley today
00:49:54if you absolutely have to make a bet this afternoon,
00:49:57because it's not exactly the best bet.
00:50:00Hey, by the way, now we want to take a chance.
00:50:02We've been holding us holding off on this news until it was official.
00:50:06And we could talk about it.
00:50:07The TDN team had a wonderful showing at the Eclipse Awards for the media categories.
00:50:13Congratulations to Sue Finley for winning an Eclipse Award,
00:50:17as well as Chris McGrath for winning another Eclipse Award.
00:50:20And Katie Petruniak, our producer,
00:50:23one of our producers on this show, got an honorable mention in the category as well.
00:50:27So on January 23rd, they're all getting their duds together.
00:50:30They're going to get dressed up, have a great time.
00:50:32And I know that Anthony LaRocca, who's also part of this team
00:50:36for the TDN Writers Room broadcast, he's going to go as well.
00:50:40And so congratulations to one and all.
00:50:43And have a great time January 23rd at the Breakers
00:50:46and bring those beautiful statues home with you.
00:50:49Should be very proud of your accomplishments.
00:50:51I want to see Sue in a dress.
00:50:55There you go.
00:50:55And I got a dishonorable mention for my rants about GPS timing and head-on replays.
00:51:04The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:51:07This week's Work of the Week is none other than the 2024 Kentucky Derby winner, Mystic Dan.
00:51:14You can take a look at the tournament peak trainee
00:51:16working on the outside here of Call the Cavalry.
00:51:19Call the Cavalry just broke his maiden a couple of starts ago.
00:51:22Mystic Dan under Robbie Alvarado went in 59.48
00:51:27in preparation for the Pegasus World Cup on January the 25th.
00:51:31And watching him come down the lane, he looks like a different horse
00:51:34than we saw out here in Southern California,
00:51:37where he didn't pick his feet up in the Grade 1 Malibu.
00:51:43Be a smarter, better with XBTV.
00:51:46The best horses.
00:51:50With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
00:51:57All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
00:52:02Everything you need to be informed.
00:52:05Be smart, bet smart with XBTV.
00:52:09PA Bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:52:13It's excitement at every step.
00:52:17Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:52:20On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over 28 million a year
00:52:25in breeders' awards, restricted races and owner bonuses.
00:52:29Plus, PA Bred shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:52:32Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:52:36The TD and Riders Room is always also brought to you
00:52:39by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:52:41Their annual stallion season auction is underway as we speak.
00:52:46We're taping this on Tuesday.
00:52:47It began Monday, Jan 13, and it will run through Sunday, January 19.
00:52:53The stallions included, and there are more than 100 stallion seasons
00:52:56that are listed, including the one that we're going to see
00:52:59this year, which is the one that we're going to see
00:53:02100 stallion seasons that are listed include the nine new PA stallions
00:53:08like Rich Strike, Ty Zozos, Tyson, and others.
00:53:11In addition to a long list of Kentucky stallions,
00:53:14listen to some of these names.
00:53:15Arcangelo, the Belmont winner, Casa Creed, Connect, Honor AP,
00:53:20Caracante, Knicks Go, Olympiad, the Preakness winner,
00:53:24Seize the Gray, and a lot more.
00:53:26You can go to thoroughlybred.com to register,
00:53:30to bid on the stallion seasons.
00:53:32You can check out all the stallions either there or on pabred.com.
00:53:38You can go there for more information about the program in general,
00:53:40or you can call 610-444-1050.
00:53:44Well, news out of Florida this week was something that I found quite surprising.
00:53:50The word decoupling is a bad word in horse racing because that basically means that
00:53:55racetracks that want to have slot machines and casinos
00:53:58no longer have to have horse racing to go along with them.
00:54:02There's a movement afoot in Florida to pass a bill
00:54:06that would decouple racing in Florida, again, at Gulfstream Park.
00:54:10They've already passed a bill earlier that decoupled racing
00:54:14at the Harness Track, Pompano Park.
00:54:15They've gone out of business, casino only,
00:54:18and also all the dog tracks are gone because of a number of different things.
00:54:23So you see the headline decoupling at Gulfstream,
00:54:27and behind this is that they want to build a big casino in one of the parking lots,
00:54:32and I guess they've been told by the potential partners,
00:54:35the casino guys like Harrah's and Caesars and whatnot,
00:54:38that we don't want to do this if we have to involve the Thoroughbred Horsemen
00:54:42and give them part of our money.
00:54:43Randy, I know you had a long talk with some people down in Florida
00:54:47to really get to the bottom of this,
00:54:49but unless I'm missing something, to me, this is troubling news.
00:54:55Could it ever potentially lead to racing being shut down at Gulfstream?
00:55:00Well, look, it's a very complicated situation,
00:55:04and it's understandable that there would be a lot of concern among horsemen.
00:55:09Like you said, the genesis of this was that First Racing wants to build this giant,
00:55:14I think, $500 million hotel, casino in the parking lot,
00:55:18and it's also understandable that your big casino companies
00:55:22that my partner with First on this don't really want to be involved
00:55:25if they have to give some of their money to horse racing, right?
00:55:30And so First Racing went to the horsemen in Florida and said,
00:55:33look, we want to decouple legally,
00:55:38and they proposed a bill, I've got it right here,
00:55:43so that there is no longer a legal requirement, right,
00:55:47for First Racing to have horse racing
00:55:50and to give a certain amount of profits, right, from the casino to purses.
00:55:55That's the decoupling part of it.
00:55:57But in turn, First Racing promised the horsemen,
00:56:01you've been getting a certain amount of money guaranteed
00:56:04from the casino for purses every year.
00:56:06We will promise you that we will give you that amount and more,
00:56:10up from $6 million to $7.5 million.
00:56:13We'll find other revenue sources to make sure
00:56:16that this purse supplements will continue.
00:56:18It just won't be on paper by law,
00:56:21and any potential casino partners won't have to be involved.
00:56:28Now, a lot of sensitivity with this, obviously.
00:56:33That was one of the arguments way back
00:56:35when the merger of casino wagering and horse racing was very first proposed.
00:56:42People were concerned that, you know, if you did that,
00:56:46and the casinos were going great guns and the horse track was struggling,
00:56:50ultimately, the casino company would say,
00:56:52hey, you know, they would go to the state and say,
00:56:54horse racing is just an albatross around our necks.
00:56:57We're spending all this money to prop up horse racing
00:56:59when we could instead be giving it to the state for education and things like that.
00:57:04We don't need horse racing.
00:57:06It's a drain.
00:57:07That was the big concern, right?
00:57:09And we have seen casino considerations triumph over horse racing at Arlington Park.
00:57:17We've seen it at Calder or Gulfstream Park West, as it was later called,
00:57:21which is no longer in existence.
00:57:23And when you hear this decoupling thing, that really, you know,
00:57:27that really raises the antenna for horsemen because of that possibility.
00:57:32But Gulfstream Park is different.
00:57:35And here's why it's different.
00:57:38If you're talking about Prairie Meadows in Iowa and Altoona, Iowa,
00:57:43or you're talking about Horseshoe in Indiana,
00:57:47that's not, those racetracks don't exist and casinos don't exist on land
00:57:53that has a tremendous commercial value.
00:57:55The best use for that land is what it's used for right now, for the casinos.
00:58:00They can't find any better money-making way than to have those casinos there.
00:58:05That's not the case at Gulfstream.
00:58:07Frank Stronach bought Gulfstream in 1999,
00:58:10depending on what source you look at, from anywhere from $87 million to $95 million.
00:58:16The racetrack, all the property.
00:58:18Right now, it's estimated that property is worth anywhere from $1 billion on the low end
00:58:23to $2 billion on the high end.
00:58:27Belinda Stronach does not need horse racing.
00:58:31She does not need the casino.
00:58:32The casino is a drop in the bucket.
00:58:35If she gets fed up with all this, or she decides that, you know,
00:58:38it's just not worthwhile to have horse racing at Gulfstream Park anymore,
00:58:43she can just shut it all down, shut the casino down,
00:58:46put it up for sale to developers, take her $2 billion
00:58:50and make a hell of a lot more money off that
00:58:52than she would off the horse track and the casino combined, right?
00:58:57So, the dynamic is totally different here.
00:59:01When this was brought to the horsemen,
00:59:04the Florida Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association for their consideration by Gulfstream,
00:59:10it was obvious that Gulfstream was going to do this,
00:59:12whether the horsemen supported them or not.
00:59:15And so, what the horsemen ultimately decided to do was to take no stance.
00:59:20So, they're not for the bill.
00:59:22They're not against the bill.
00:59:24And the bill is not guaranteed to pass,
00:59:25because there are other horsemen's organizations that are going to come out against it.
00:59:29They're going to put forth the biggest lobbying effort
00:59:33they can come up with to try to fight it in the legislature.
00:59:36So, this is not a slam dunk to pass, but that's the genesis of it.
00:59:41And it's just different at Gulfstream Park,
00:59:44because the land, as we saw with Hollywood Park,
00:59:49and now it's the football stadium,
00:59:51the land is really worth a lot more money
00:59:54than it's being used for right now for a racetrack and a casino.
00:59:59So, very well put, and thank you for clearing that.
01:00:03But here's the main question that I have.
01:00:05As things stand now in the law, they have to have horse racing.
01:00:09By the way, the casino at Gulfstream now,
01:00:11there's just a small slot room that does not produce a whole hell of a lot of revenue.
01:00:16It's not like some of these other places where the money is coming in.
01:00:18There's so many casinos, and there's like 7-Elevens.
01:00:21They're on every other corner down there in Florida.
01:00:24So, when you're talking $6 million, that's not a lot of money.
01:00:28But as things stand now, they have to have horse racing, because that's the law.
01:00:33If you want to have a casino, you want to have slot machines,
01:00:35you have to have horse racing.
01:00:37If, in fact, this bill is passed, certainly First Racing, Stronach, etc.,
01:00:41they can reach out to the horse and say,
01:00:43don't worry about a thing, we're going to take care of you.
01:00:45But do the horsemen have any guarantees
01:00:49that they will continue to keep horse racing there for as long as well into the future?
01:00:56Well, look, there's no guarantee now.
01:00:58There's not a guarantee.
01:01:00If horsemen believe that this statute as currently written will prevent
01:01:07anyone from selling Gulfstream Park and cashing in with developers, they're wrong.
01:01:12There's no guarantee right now that tomorrow First Racing won't decide,
01:01:16you know, Gulfstream's not making enough money.
01:01:19We got this massive $2 billion offer for the property.
01:01:23You know, unfortunately, it's worth a lot more developed,
01:01:27just like Hollywood Park was.
01:01:28And we hate it, but this is what we're going to have to do.
01:01:30So there's absolutely no guarantee as it presently stands.
01:01:34And I'm going to assume that when...
01:01:38And there's going to be a meeting.
01:01:39We're taping this on Tuesday.
01:01:40There's a meeting Wednesday between Gulfstream and the horsemen.
01:01:44I'm going to assume that when they tell the horsemen,
01:01:46look, we will guarantee your revenue stream for purses.
01:01:50It won't come directly from the casino,
01:01:52but we will guarantee and we'll even up it from six to seven and a half million dollars.
01:01:57I'm going to assume that that's going to be in writing.
01:02:02But, you know, I mean, it's just it's a different dynamic completely
01:02:05at Gulfstream Park than it is in some of these other places,
01:02:08just because of the sheer value of the land that the racetrack sits on.
01:02:13The one thing about...
01:02:14I believe that the Stronach Company First Racing really likes horse racing,
01:02:19much more so than a lot of companies that are involved.
01:02:22Either our casino companies are involved with casino companies.
01:02:26They like the game.
01:02:28And it's apparent in the way to me they run their racetracks.
01:02:32I mean, they're always coming up with new innovations like the Pegasus World Cup,
01:02:35trying to get people in the door.
01:02:38They did a lot of interesting things with the Preakness before
01:02:41they decided to get out of Maryland.
01:02:44But Randy, it is a business and businesses are bottom line oriented.
01:02:50The way that you phrased all this and thank you,
01:02:54because now I understand it a lot better than I did before you came on.
01:02:59Why don't they just sell a place as it is and just say,
01:03:01I'm taking the two billion.
01:03:02Goodbye.
01:03:04Well, that was a concern when the torch was passed forcefully from
01:03:11Frank Stronach to Belinda Stronach,
01:03:13because we know that Frank Stronach had a love for thoroughbred racing,
01:03:18a passion for thoroughbred racing and breeding.
01:03:22He actually spent more money on thoroughbred racing than was
01:03:25that it made financial good sense to do.
01:03:27And then when Belinda took over,
01:03:30we didn't know anything really about her commitment to horse racing
01:03:34and how much she liked it, if at all.
01:03:37And so that was a worry and a legitimate worry.
01:03:40But what we've seen, like you pointed out,
01:03:42I mean, we've seen a real commitment to the sport
01:03:46from Belinda Stronach and First Racing, the Pegasus, the California Crown.
01:03:52I mean, the Pegasus was started by Frank Stronach, but she's continued it.
01:03:55The California Crown, for goodness sakes,
01:03:58if she wanted to get out of horse racing, especially in California,
01:04:02with all the breakdowns and the horse deaths a few years ago,
01:04:05she could have just said, you know, that's it.
01:04:09And the good part about this situation,
01:04:13the value of the property, let's say $2 billion that Gulfstream sits on,
01:04:17it's not going to go down, you wouldn't think, right?
01:04:20It's only going to maybe even appreciate as the years go on.
01:04:25So if she's committed to horse racing, which it seems that she is,
01:04:29it's nice to have a casino on the property.
01:04:32It's paying for purse money.
01:04:34It's giving you an extra source of revenue
01:04:36when the racetrack is not running at night.
01:04:38There's a lot of good reasons if you're going to run horse racing on the property
01:04:42and you're not going to sell it to have that casino.
01:04:46And I think that's what we're seeing right now.
01:04:48She actually wants to expand the casino and make it a hotel casino.
01:04:52And that land is still worth all the money.
01:04:53She still has it.
01:04:56If at some point the racetrack becomes a huge financial drain,
01:05:01it's not right now, it's making money right now.
01:05:04Not a ton, but it's making money.
01:05:06Then there's always that option to cash in as they did at Hollywood Park.
01:05:10Well, we'll keep an eye on this and let's hope that everything will be fine with Gulfstream.
01:05:14It sounds like you paint a picture that is of optimism and it's good to hear from that
01:05:20because the last thing horse racing needs is for Gulfstream Park to disappear.
01:05:25My biggest concern is if this proposal, the $500 million hotel casino,
01:05:33gets shot down and it's blamed on horsemen for getting it shot down.
01:05:39And I could see where that could be extremely frustrating to someone like Belinda.
01:05:45Why am I doing this?
01:05:46Why am I trying to make this work when I could just cash in?
01:05:52That would be my biggest concern.
01:05:54And I think that's the biggest concern for the horsemen as well,
01:05:56why they're not coming out, at least the FTHA,
01:05:59why they're not coming out against this and they're just taking a hands-off attitude right now.
01:06:05Makes sense.
01:06:07The TD and Riders Room brought to you by our good friends at West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:06:16and being America's largest thoroughbred partnership, West Point Thoroughbreds
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01:06:24who carry the black and gold silks.
01:06:26Over the holidays, they made good on this.
01:06:29They located a former West Point runner named Corot, who was 10 years old,
01:06:36running in $4,000 claiming races at Delta Downs.
01:06:40And more than five years after he was claimed away from West Point,
01:06:44West Point went back in and reacquired Corot to retire him.
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01:07:47That's a wrap on this week's show, this week's Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room podcast.
01:07:52I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman, as well as our producers,
01:07:56Katie Petruniak, Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca,
01:08:00and our special Gainesway Guest of the Week, Owen Hardy.
01:08:03See you next week.