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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to the TD and Riders Room, brought to you by our friends at Keeneland, with racing
00:00:32as it was meant to be.
00:00:34He's TD Thornton, she is Zoe Cadman, I'm Randy Moss.
00:00:37Bill Finley has the week off.
00:00:40When we last saw Zoe, she was in the wilderness.
00:00:45She was either camping or on some kind of a zen retreat or something.
00:00:49Zoe, nice to see you're back in civilization.
00:00:51I am.
00:00:52I'm in Saratoga.
00:00:53I never really left Saratoga, but hopefully the Wi-Fi is working just a little bit better
00:00:58this week.
00:00:59Looks like you've moved locations as well, and did I see some silks in the background
00:01:03and a quarter pole?
00:01:05Yeah, it's a quarter pole that I ordered from Saratoga.
00:01:11You'll see it in the shot later, from where you are right now.
00:01:14Those are my father's old racing silks from the one horse that he owned in his life that
00:01:18turned out to be a disaster.
00:01:19But yeah, I just kind of did a 180 here in my office, so it's the same office, just from
00:01:24a different direction.
00:01:26I wanted to ask you this.
00:01:27We've had you on several times now.
00:01:29Who is the horse in the background?
00:01:30Is it just a random photo, or is it a specific horse that you can identify?
00:01:34I cannot specifically identify the horse.
00:01:36I can tell by the white.
00:01:37I know it's at Saratoga.
00:01:39I know by the white numeral on the saddlecloth, it was pre when Naira moved over to the colored
00:01:46saddlecloth.
00:01:47So I'm guessing summer of 92 or 93, but I bought it because it was my friend Aaron Greider
00:01:51in the shot.
00:01:53I don't know.
00:01:54I could do a little detective work and maybe figure it out.
00:01:59Okay.
00:02:00We all like Aaron Greider.
00:02:01It's too bad he wasn't on Forte in the Jim Dandy stakes on Saturday.
00:02:05Let's start off talking about the races this past week and start with the Jim Dandy because
00:02:10of all the controversy.
00:02:11I mean, what a fantastic race it was on the racetrack with Forte running down Saudi Crown
00:02:18in the last jump to beat him by a nose, Angel of Empire, only a half length back.
00:02:23Everybody's probably seen it by now.
00:02:25It's a shame that the controversy with the stewards inquiry and the lack of a disqualification
00:02:32might take away a little bit from the great race that the Jim Dandy was.
00:02:38Let me just weigh in first real quickly.
00:02:41I actually do have a life apart from this.
00:02:43I went to dinner on Saturday night.
00:02:46Tried to stay away from all media, which I do often for football games and horse races.
00:02:51And then I come home and I want to watch it and obviously not know who won.
00:02:55It's more exciting that way.
00:02:56So I successfully did it, came home, turned on the Jim Dandy, watched it and thought,
00:03:01oh my God, a disqualification in the Jim Dandy I read has finally gone too far.
00:03:08And I kept it running and I was in shock.
00:03:12Really shocked that Forte was not disqualified in place third behind Saudi Crown and Angel
00:03:19of Empire.
00:03:21Quite frankly, I think it was a disgrace, an absolute disgrace that the stewards at
00:03:26Saratoga didn't take the number down.
00:03:30And that's just what happened on the racetrack.
00:03:33Then there's the whole element of Irat Ortiz and his over the top aggressiveness that is
00:03:38now bordering on danger to other riders.
00:03:41That's another topic that we could talk about for a long time.
00:03:44Well, Zoe, as a former rider, maybe you have the same opinion, maybe you have a different
00:03:49opinion.
00:03:50What were your thoughts on this?
00:03:51First off, I think we're basically looking for a little bit of continuity with the stewards,
00:03:57right?
00:03:58We saw an episode the day before with Irat in the last race with Mike Maker.
00:04:03Seemingly, Irat seems to think there's a sinkhole on the rail, be it the dirt or the turf.
00:04:09In the last race the day before, he squished everyone out of the way and went around and
00:04:14got disqualified.
00:04:15Now, that was not a stake race.
00:04:17I think it was a high level claimer, got DQ'd off a Mike Maker trainee.
00:04:21And he's going to serve those days this week, Wednesday through Friday.
00:04:25So that was a disqualification.
00:04:26Then we have Forte.
00:04:27And why didn't he stay on the rail?
00:04:31I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why he had to try and go around.
00:04:36And his reasoning was, quite simply, that Saudi Crown was coming out and he was on heels.
00:04:42Yes, Saudi Crown did come out.
00:04:44If it was up to me, I would have took them both down and put Angel of Empire up, who
00:04:48basically got the brunt of all of it.
00:04:51Saudi Crown came out numerous paths.
00:04:53We'll take a look at that.
00:04:55You can see by the tire tracks and his tracks, he came out an awful long way.
00:04:59So if Irat had just stayed on the rail and stayed out of the way, he would have won.
00:05:05There's no question Forte was the best horse.
00:05:07But we are rewarding a guy for winning a stakes race, a graded stake, when we took him down
00:05:13for the same thing the day before that was just an allowance race.
00:05:17So does it mean it's OK to do that in a stake race?
00:05:20And it's not OK on a Friday, but it's fine on a Saturday?
00:05:23I think that's what we're sending out.
00:05:26And yet, the disqualification or non-disqualification aside, how about the longer term evolution
00:05:32of Forte?
00:05:33A horse who won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile last year.
00:05:37He was given just a two-prep race campaign this spring.
00:05:40They were kind of easy spots at Gulfstream in the Fountain of Youth.
00:05:44The Florida Derby was one of those kind of snatch victory from the jaws of defeat when
00:05:49he was not fully extended.
00:05:51And then, of course, he had the footbrewers that knocked him out on the morning of the
00:05:54derby, sidelined for a 10-week gap between the Florida Derby win and the Belmont Stakes.
00:06:01I didn't think that was ideal spacing for him to attempt 12 furlongs.
00:06:05But now what have we seen?
00:06:06Todd Pletcher going to the blinkers, Tytner in the Jim Dandy.
00:06:10And I think it's a useful race.
00:06:11I think Forte is never going to evolve into one of these explosive, big blast-off moves
00:06:19at the quarter pole where he leaves the competition reeling in the dust.
00:06:23But he always does just whatever he has to to get his lip up in time at the wire.
00:06:29Thanks for steering that back to the horse, TD.
00:06:31I appreciate that.
00:06:33Because I think Forte solidified his role now as the number one ranked three-year-old
00:06:38in America.
00:06:39And I agree that the blinkers helped Forte.
00:06:41I just think the blinkers would help Irad Ortiz even more than they would help the horse
00:06:46that he was on.
00:06:48There were some other really fast races in Saratoga this past week.
00:06:51The sprint races.
00:06:54Wednesday, you had Echo Zulu winning the Honorable Miss in a runaway.
00:07:00Friday, there was New York Thunder in the Amsterdam that won it by 7.5 points in amazingly
00:07:05fast time.
00:07:06And then you had the Vanderbilt on Saturday with elite power running down Gunite in the
00:07:12last strides on a sloppy racetrack.
00:07:14TD, those were some really powerful points.
00:07:16I think of the three, I would have to say that the one that carried the most weight
00:07:21for me was New York Thunder's performance.
00:07:24Granted, he caught a little bit of a break at the break when another horse who looked
00:07:29to be the projected to be the main speed on paper didn't go with him.
00:07:33So New York Thunder got out to a lead there.
00:07:35But he really swatted back the challenge of the favorite there, Drew's Gold.
00:07:40And he kicked clear under urging under Tyler Gaflione.
00:07:44Here's a horse who's four for four, but that was his first win on dirt.
00:07:47So they let him go in the betting in that race, what I believe five to one.
00:07:51He's had a couple of tries on the terrific Gulf Stream.
00:07:53He had a try over the synthetic track up in Woodbine.
00:07:56And now he's the real deal on the dirt.
00:07:58His six-mile on time, what basically broke the track record, it would have broken the
00:08:03track record.
00:08:04Now, the 16th of a mile after the six-mile on time was not pretty visually to watch.
00:08:10I mean, he was staggering, but he's a very fast horse.
00:08:13And I think he paid the price early, but there is no question he was the fastest horse in
00:08:17the race.
00:08:18It was a terrific effort.
00:08:20Congratulations to Josh Delgado getting his first stakes win at Saratoga.
00:08:24He was about as pumped up as you're going to see.
00:08:27And I can't knock him undefeated horse that runs that fast on this track at Saratoga and
00:08:33beat some really good horses.
00:08:35Echo Zulu for Asmussen is just an absolute pleasure to watch.
00:08:41She has grown up so much in the past few years that we've been watching her.
00:08:46I can't thank the Winchells enough for leaving her in training.
00:08:49I saw Steve on Thursday morning and I just looked at him and I'm like, man, that was
00:08:54awesome.
00:08:55And it takes a lot for Steve to smile some mornings, right?
00:08:58And the smile on his face, he was just beaming.
00:09:01He's like, she is incredible.
00:09:03She is absolutely incredible.
00:09:05And she's fast.
00:09:06That's it.
00:09:07And they've decided that's what she needs to do.
00:09:09And she just ran off and hit seven and a quarter lengths for her.
00:09:13She was terrific.
00:09:14And then elite power.
00:09:17What can you say about that?
00:09:18I mean, to put together a run, eight consecutive races for Hall of Fame of Bill Mott on a track
00:09:25that perhaps was not his best surface, Asmussen's horse Gunite loves that track and he was laying
00:09:32down at the end.
00:09:33But elite power refused to lose, glue on shoes, be damned.
00:09:37He got his nose down right when it mattered and showed just what a champion he is.
00:09:43And I asked Bill Mott as well, I'm like, it's hard to string together eight races,
00:09:48whether you're a five climber or you're a graded six.
00:09:50It's hard just to have not a sick horse going into a race and put a subpar performance.
00:09:57And him again was just smiling.
00:09:59He's like, it's unbelievable.
00:10:01Absolutely unbelievable.
00:10:02Watching him in the paddock, he's a beast of a horse.
00:10:04He really is.
00:10:05At five years old, he had never been on an off track, which is unusual for a horse that's
00:10:10compiled that amount of starts.
00:10:12And he did have his head cocked out towards the grandstand coming off the turn, took him
00:10:17a little while to uncoil, but wow, when he got going, he showed up.
00:10:22Yeah.
00:10:23He didn't love it.
00:10:24Yeah.
00:10:25And that, and that moved from about the three X pole to the quarter pole when he just powered
00:10:28up there.
00:10:29Uh, and then he had to run down Gunite.
00:10:31I mean, that was a heck of a performance, but Zoe, we also had a couple of big races
00:10:35at Delmar on Saturday, including a grade one sprint, the Bing Crosby.
00:10:39Let's touch on it first.
00:10:40It probably, you know, wasn't as dynamic to watch as, as let's say the Vanderbilt with
00:10:45the elite power in Gunite, but Hey, it's Calbrad, the chosen run eight straight wins.
00:10:52He just doesn't know how to lose.
00:10:53And I think the thing that has solidified him being so good to this point is that he
00:10:58had a little two month break.
00:11:00He won a race by nose at Santa Anita and a cruel Jack said, all right, we're going to
00:11:06give him a break.
00:11:07He's obviously come to the end of his rope for this period.
00:11:11And I gave him the break and I think he's come back a better horse.
00:11:13He was winless at Delmar prior to his win in the Bing Crosby, didn't have the best of
00:11:18trips.
00:11:19Now he had to check sharply on the turn.
00:11:22Now I think American theorem who was behind him with Joe Bravo may have took the worst
00:11:26of that and went all the way back to last, but that did stop his momentum.
00:11:31And it just showed what a gutsy little horse he is to get going and win.
00:11:36And you think about it, he's done it on synthetic.
00:11:38He's done it on dirt.
00:11:39He is a really cool horse.
00:11:40He's five, five this year.
00:11:42They're going to supplement him into the breeders cup sprint where he will face hopefully elite
00:11:47power.
00:11:48They'll both get there, both on these wind streaks, hopefully, and we'll see what happens.
00:11:54It's going to cost him a hundred grand, but Hey, he's made 510,000 this year alone.
00:11:59And it's a perfect five for five.
00:12:01His owner, a cruel Jack on some of them, John Sondra and a couple of other people.
00:12:06How could you not cheer for that?
00:12:08And he faced a good field, but that was a breakout performance for him in my mind.
00:12:14Six across the track at the head of the lane.
00:12:16Anyone could win it by the time they were inside the eighth pole, they were four across
00:12:20the track.
00:12:21And I thought the chosen drawn was not going to be the one who got up there.
00:12:23Yeah.
00:12:24And in the San Diego earlier on the card, I was quite frankly, a little disappointed.
00:12:29Right.
00:12:30I mean, I'm not going to knock senior boost good or I would love to own senior boost.
00:12:36Absolutely love it.
00:12:37And he gets up to win a 13 to one, but he's kind of proven on form that he's not really
00:12:42a grade one caliber horse for the breeders cup classic.
00:12:47Right.
00:12:48And Doug O'Neill's runner up is definitely not a mile and a quarter type horse.
00:12:52He's he's a little bit too eager, really disappointed with defunded.
00:12:56What did you guys think about his race in the San Diego?
00:12:58He loves Santa Anita.
00:13:00That is his course that he absolutely loves.
00:13:04I thought he fought.
00:13:05I don't think he disgraced himself, but he should have been able to beat that bunch.
00:13:09He put four fast fractions, which he did, but he always does.
00:13:13He always trains terrifically.
00:13:15I don't know if he had an off day.
00:13:17I'm in Saratoga, so I'm not privy to speak to Bob here, but I don't know.
00:13:22I thought senior bus could all got a terrific ride under Franco, his trainer, Todd Fincher
00:13:26picking up his first stakes when a Delmar for those of you that may not have heard of
00:13:31those of you that may not have heard of Todd Fincher, superb horseman, trains a lot out
00:13:36of New Mexico.
00:13:37He's a very, very good trainer indeed.
00:13:40So delighted to see him have the win with the horses, not an easy horse to train.
00:13:44He's quirky.
00:13:45It's set up very nicely.
00:13:46Things have to go his way.
00:13:48So he gets his first stake win there and he's called him the best horse he's ever trained.
00:13:53So kudos to the connections.
00:13:55But was it a great rendition?
00:13:57No, it wasn't.
00:13:59Yeah, you had a 14 to 1 horse loose on the lead.
00:14:02The winner, senior Buscador was 13 to 1 and he was way off the tailgate, something you
00:14:06don't often see at Delmar.
00:14:08But on the far turn when defunded was being really scrubbed on and not responding, you
00:14:13could tell it was not going to be his day.
00:14:15And then in the stretch when slow down Andy came after the pacemaker, slow down Andy ever
00:14:21since I believe late in his two year old season.
00:14:23Once he hits the front, he swishes his tail when he gets hit with the stick and he did
00:14:28it again.
00:14:29There was nobody else rallying and senior Buscador just chugging along in time and ground
00:14:34it out.
00:14:35All right.
00:14:36We're just getting started here, as we've mentioned before, the TD and Riders room brought
00:14:39to you by Keeneland and Zoe.
00:14:41We had another Keeneland grad Saturday early in the card break is made in a two year old
00:14:47that really looked.
00:14:48Yeah.
00:14:49And his name is Heartland, a five hundred and seventy five thousand dollar Keeneland
00:14:52September yearling.
00:14:53And, you know, the biggest scheme of things now, five hundred and seventy five.
00:14:57When you talk about horses being purchased for two million, two point five, it's like
00:15:01a steal and didn't win in typical Bob Baffert fashion.
00:15:06He was way back there and came flying down the rail rail to just get up in time.
00:15:12He actually ran like a seasoned professional.
00:15:14Usually Bob's horses just displayed so much pace and they run everyone off their feet.
00:15:19This guy looked like a seasoned professional son of justify.
00:15:22But how about justify?
00:15:23I mean, everywhere I turn, there's a winner on turf.
00:15:26There's one in Europe.
00:15:27I mean, he is the sire of the moment.
00:15:30He really is.
00:15:32Heartland is a half to the 2016 two year old champ and Breeders Cup juvenile winner, Classic
00:15:38Empire.
00:15:39And I believe next up for him, he's going to go right to the Del Mar Futurity.
00:15:43I have to wonder, though, how, you know, we don't have much to go on.
00:15:47It was his debut.
00:15:48We all saw him break slowly from the inside and make that big, visually impressive move.
00:15:53But sometimes you have to wonder the top two horses were coming back to the field.
00:15:58How much of that visually impressive move was a factor of that as much as Heartland
00:16:04really closing the gap?
00:16:06Now we have a superb segue, as we do know, the TDM Rises to Room is brought to you by
00:16:11Keeneland.
00:16:13We have a Keeneland grad.
00:16:14I think I just mentioned his name.
00:16:16His name is Heartland.
00:16:17Bob Baffert trains Heartland, broker's maiden in fine fashion at Del Mar on Saturday, drawing
00:16:22off by more than two lengths.
00:16:25Keeneland is the home of the World's Yearling Sale.
00:16:28The energy, magic and momentum of the September Yearling Sale returns on September the 11th
00:16:34through the 23rd.
00:16:36Learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:16:39Group reservations if you want to go to Keeneland and take all your friends.
00:16:43They are now open at Keeneland for the Fall Meet, which runs October the 6th through the
00:16:4828th.
00:16:49We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:16:52If this place could talk, it would roar, it would say, this is a reset, this beating heart
00:17:08in the heart of horse country, steady and strong beneath the roar, reminding us why,
00:17:16for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:17:38TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Stone Street.
00:17:41The Stone Street-bred Willakaya took an allowance on Thursday at Colonial Downs this week.
00:17:47The even money favourite was sent to the front and never looked back en route to a six and
00:17:52a quarter length win.
00:17:54She is the daughter of Canadian sprinter Hillaby.
00:17:57Look for four Stone Street-bred colts this week at Saratoga, August the 7th and the 8th.
00:18:04We'll lead off with hip number 77, a Quality Road colt from the family of Santa Anita Derby
00:18:09winner, Dortman.
00:18:11They also have hip 92, a Spicetown colt from the family of Graded Stakes winner, Uncaptured.
00:18:17Hip 135, going to be a busy day for Stone Street-breds, is an intermischief colt out of
00:18:22Rachel Alexandra's grade one winning daughter, Rachel's Valentina.
00:18:29And finally, hip 183 is a colt by Authentic, who is a half-brother to grade one Met Mile
00:18:35winner, Silver State.
00:18:37The guiding focus of Stone Street is to breed and develop quality thoroughbreds with strength,
00:18:42stamina and class.
00:18:44Stone Street, born to run, raised to win.
00:18:49And now the fastest horse of the week brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:18:54Think back to 2018.
00:18:55We all remember Justify sweeping the Triple Crown, retiring, being retired after the Belmont
00:19:00Stakes.
00:19:01That September, a new two-year-old moved into Baffert's stable at Santa Anita and took
00:19:07the stall previously occupied by Justify.
00:19:11Like Justify, this was a chestnut.
00:19:13Like Justify, common ownership, right?
00:19:15A lot of the same owners involved in the two horses.
00:19:18And Bob Baffert explained that the horse was named Improbable because it was very improbable
00:19:23that he would be as good as Justify was.
00:19:26Well, what did Improbable do?
00:19:28What a grade one stakes as a two-year-old, as a four-year-old, the Eclipse Award winning
00:19:33champion older males are reeling off three straight grade one wins and then finishing
00:19:38second to stable mate Authentic in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:19:41Now Improbable standing stud at Windstar.
00:19:44His first yearling sold for up to $150,000 at Basic Tipped in July.
00:19:49And he has four more entered in the prestigious Saratoga Selectsdale.
00:19:53Two fillies, hips 14 and 98, and two colts, hips 91 and 235.
00:20:00He's from the immediate female family of Hard Spun.
00:20:03And Improbable bred 329 mares in his first two books.
00:20:10Now the fastest horse of the week will surprise no one.
00:20:13Echo Zulu winning the Honorable Miss Stakes in Six Furlongs 108.99.
00:20:18Buyer speed figure of 112.
00:20:20Honorable mention to New York Thunders 110 in the Amsterdam.
00:20:24And Elite Powers 108 buyer in the Vanderbilt on Saturday.
00:20:31But right now talking about Echo Zulu, Steve Asmussen and Connections have pointed out
00:20:36that they would not be reticent at all if the situation called for it to run Echo Zulu
00:20:42against the colts.
00:20:43They think she'd be more brilliant, tougher to catch at Six Furlongs than at Seven Furlongs.
00:20:48The only problem is they also have Gunite pointing ultimately for the Six Furlong Breeders' Cup Sprint.
00:20:54So it's a nice problem to have.
00:20:56But Echo Zulu, perhaps the best race of her career.
00:21:00That's saying a lot.
00:21:01A 112 buyer speed figure, the fastest horse of the week.
00:21:08And a lot happened last week off the track as well.
00:21:11TD, let's start with you for a couple of the items.
00:21:13First of all, the sentencing of Jason Service, the maximum four year prison term.
00:21:19You've been covering this.
00:21:20What were some of the takeaways you had?
00:21:22The main takeaway is that we're done.
00:21:24Three and a half years.
00:21:26Almost everybody that was indicted or faced charges has been prosecuted.
00:21:30They're behind bars.
00:21:31They're serving their sentences.
00:21:32Some of them have already served their sentences.
00:21:34And I guess the big question is, what is next?
00:21:39Will we remember this when we rewind the film in 10, 15, 20 years and say, well, we had a big federal intervention and an FBI investigation?
00:21:48Almost 30 people went to jail and then Haiza took over.
00:21:52Now, will that be a smooth segue or not?
00:21:55We don't know.
00:21:56But one question that is lingering is how much more of an enforcement action can you expect from the federal government?
00:22:04They put a lot of time, a lot of effort into this.
00:22:08The Southern District of New York is one of the busiest and most active courts in the country for prosecuting top level federal crimes.
00:22:18Are they going to have the appetite or the manpower to chase up and, you know,
00:22:22go after other things that might pop up in this whack-a-mole type of situation that we sometimes get with substance performance,
00:22:30enhancing substance abuse in our sport?
00:22:34You know, it's been a generation.
00:22:36The last big time that the feds got involved and prosecuted people was when a Boston gangster named Tony Shula was buying off riders up and down the East Coast.
00:22:45That was in 1975.
00:22:47And his prosecution and the related prosecutions took, again, almost the same time frame, about three and a half, almost four years.
00:22:54What's going to happen now is the big question.
00:22:56And will something need to happen?
00:22:58Who knows?
00:22:59Right.
00:23:00Now, you've also been following the Churchill Downs Incorporated situation pretty closely.
00:23:04The CDI announced last week it had completed its internal investigation into the horse deaths this spring and found no definitive explanation,
00:23:13which I think was very predictable.
00:23:15I think we all could have seen that coming.
00:23:17But Churchill Downs also announced a string of additional safety measures that it's going to put into force at its upcoming September meeting.
00:23:25Your thoughts on those?
00:23:26I think they were also predictable.
00:23:27I think when we spoke about this issue two months ago on the show, we wondered if we were just witnessing an exercise in corporate risk management where they said,
00:23:37let's keep everybody stabling and training at Churchill, but we're going to whisk everybody 175 miles west to run it at Ellis Park.
00:23:46It doesn't make sense on certain levels.
00:23:48Luckily, nothing adverse in terms of horse health happened with that.
00:23:52But there is what corporations say and how they say it.
00:23:56I'll just give you an interesting takeaway here.
00:23:59Last Thursday, I covered what is the quarterly earnings conference call that Churchill Downs Incorporated has.
00:24:05It's a fairly standard format.
00:24:08Big corporations, they wheel out the dog and pony show, so to speak, once every quarter, and they explain.
00:24:15Questioning is not open to journalists.
00:24:17It's investment bankers who are allowed to ask questions.
00:24:20Journalists can listen in.
00:24:23I listened to Bill Karstangen, the CEO of CDI, Churchill Downs Incorporated, speak for 22 minutes with what he called high-level thoughts.
00:24:32Essentially, he was reading off of what sounded to me like a prepared script.
00:24:36My takeaway was in our horse racing world, that was a big deal, Churchill Downs having to cease racing and shuttle everybody off to Ellis Park.
00:24:48It didn't even read a mention in Mr. Karstangen's high-level thoughts that he was saying to investors.
00:24:56He had one passing reference to the horses being shipped out to Ellis Park.
00:25:01But it took, in the question and answer session, one of those investment bankers to say, hey, what about this thing?
00:25:08What were the ramifications of that?
00:25:10And that's when Bill Karstangen came out and said, well, we really found out that we don't have a definitive cause
00:25:16and that we will be making some changes, a little bit more veterinary oversight, a little bit of tweaking to some of the maintenance protocols.
00:25:23But after he revealed that by being asked by an investment banker on Thursday,
00:25:28Churchill Downs then came out with the press release and said what was going to happen.
00:25:32So it was a big deal in our world.
00:25:34But it was apparently something that even during an earnings investment call that they wanted to minimize.
00:25:40And the upcoming meeting will resume or will begin as scheduled on September the 14th at Churchill Downs.
00:25:47And Zoe, also big news in the first racing world announcing detailed plans about the closing of Golden Gate
00:25:54and the steps it intends to take to make it easier for Golden Gate workers to perhaps find jobs in Southern California.
00:26:03So they outlined a plan, which the plan, it's a big, big plan.
00:26:08Now, there was an open letter in the TDN that Dan Ross wrote that asked an awful lot of questions.
00:26:14And it seems like they've all been answered, which is great.
00:26:17And the plan is, I'm just going to read off the main bits.
00:26:20There is going to be a total of $31 million invested, and it's going to go,
00:26:26a million dollars is going to go to industry support funds.
00:26:29$4,500,000 are going to go to put in a synthetic training track where the original training track is.
00:26:38Now, that's on the inside of the main track.
00:26:41It's six furlongs around.
00:26:42A lot of the turf trainers will utilize that to work their turf horses on there, Phil D'Amato being one.
00:26:49That's going to be a significant investment.
00:26:51And that's a really good thing for Santa Anita because we were plagued with wet weather all winter at Santa Anita.
00:27:00And the fact this will allow the trainers to train is going to be huge.
00:27:03Now, I don't know what kind of synthetic track they're going to put in.
00:27:06I'm sure Michael Dickinson's been on the phone.
00:27:08I'm sure several people have been on the phone.
00:27:11But that's a terrific investment, as well as a one-mile turf chute that will run from the north parking lot.
00:27:19That's supposed to be $2.5 million.
00:27:22They're looking into investing into a swimming pool and a hydro pool, $500,000.
00:27:29And then the biggest thing of all would be the barn improvement program at Santa Anita, which they've allotted four years to do so.
00:27:36They're going to put $23 million into this.
00:27:40And, I mean, much like many barn areas, they need updating, especially where the help lives.
00:27:46I mean, if you think about million-dollar athletes and where they're living, it's unbelievable at some tracks.
00:27:55You're like, oh, my million-dollar horse is in here in the roof leagues.
00:27:58So they're going to put a lot of money into that, which is key for Santa Anita.
00:28:02And I think the biggest thing that it's answered to a lot of people at Santa Anita and Golden Gate Fields is the investment into Santa Anita.
00:28:11When we're talking about $30 million going into a racetrack, maybe we're going to stay alive for a little bit longer.
00:28:19To me, that's a good thing.
00:28:20I've got a little bit of job security there with $30 million being poured into Santa Anita.
00:28:25So it's a big thumbs-up from me as far as the horses relocating from Golden Gate Fields.
00:28:30We'll see where they fit.
00:28:32They're, of course, going to have to move some down to San Luis Rey, which is a training facility down there, and some over at Los Alamitos.
00:28:39I'm sure we'll boost some of their racing program as well.
00:28:41So the financial commitments made by First Racing, I think, are terrific.
00:28:47And we'll see how it goes moving forward.
00:28:49But I'm very happy with that.
00:28:52I second that.
00:28:53I started to laugh when you mentioned a letter because I thought you were going to go to Senator Dianne Feinstein,
00:28:59which to me was the most comical case of political grandstanding that I've seen in a long time.
00:29:08For those of you who don't know what we're talking about briefly, Senator Feinstein released a letter her office did on Wednesday asking,
00:29:17imploring Belinda Stronach to provide additional information about Golden Gate and the steps it intends to take.
00:29:24This was Wednesday, right?
00:29:27The first racing release came out on Friday.
00:29:31There is a 0% chance that Feinstein's office did not know already that San Anita was working on this and was going to release it on Friday.
00:29:41They wanted to release theirs two days ahead of time to make it look like San Anita was responding.
00:29:47First Racing was responding to Feinstein so she would get the credit for, oh, look what I had First Racing do.
00:29:53Look at this.
00:29:54I thought it was just, I mean, we've seen some bad politics in the past, and this is probably small potatoes.
00:29:59But you talk about political opportunism.
00:30:02All right.
00:30:03Also, last week, Zoe, we talked about the issues with the provisional suspensions from HISA and HIWU,
00:30:12and how with Mack Robertson and the positive test with the split sample coming back negative,
00:30:19maybe they might need to tweak the provisional suspension somewhat.
00:30:24And that's exactly what they did.
00:30:26Yes, to Lisa Lazarus and her crew, because when we've had her on, she's like, we've done some things wrong,
00:30:31but we're willing to learn and they're willing to acknowledge when they've made mistakes, which is huge,
00:30:36because more often than not, people aren't willing to acknowledge the fact that they were wrong.
00:30:41And they were wrong in this instance.
00:30:43So the provisional suspension is gone.
00:30:46They will wait for the split to come back.
00:30:48It costs about $2,000 to get the B sample back.
00:30:51If that comes back positive, then you're screwed.
00:30:54Then you're basically out.
00:30:56But it does give you a chance to be innocent until proven guilty, which is the number one thing that they were lacking.
00:31:05It's a very good thing.
00:31:07So kudos to them for getting that right.
00:31:10I mean, there's many other things that maybe aren't right and aren't great, but you have to start somewhere.
00:31:15So that's well done.
00:31:18Meanwhile, the TDN Writer's Room is also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:31:23A reminder that entries for the $1 million Pennsylvania Day at the Races will be taken Tuesday, July 15th, at the Parks Racing Office.
00:31:34This past Monday and Tuesday, there were a pair of stakes races at Presque Isle Downs for older Pennsylvania breds, Mile and 70 Yards.
00:31:42Maldives model won the Princess of Silmar stakes on Monday, followed the next day by Nice Ace winning the hard spun for the second consecutive year.
00:31:52Princess of Silmar bred by the Arrowwood Farm.
00:31:54Nice Ace bred by the Blackstone Farm.
00:31:57And of course, our favorite Pennsylvania bred, Caravelle, is being pointed for the Troy stakes at Saratoga this upcoming Saturday.
00:32:04Coming up next, the Green Group Guest of the Week and a name and a face that you'll all be very familiar with.
00:32:11The PA Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:32:15Six races for PA sired, PA bred two-year-olds at parks.
00:32:19Two $100,000 contests at 5 1⁄2 furlongs on August 21st, PA Day at the Races.
00:32:26September 23rd, PA Derby Day, as two races at 6 1⁄2 furlongs, both with a $150,000 purse.
00:32:34And in December, two races going long, each worth $200,000.
00:32:38For more, go to pabred.com.
00:32:40Jockey's mental health has been a much discussed topic this year.
00:32:44And in this week's Saratoga Minute, our Katie Petruniak attended a Jockey's Mental Welfare Summit at Saratoga.
00:33:00So we have this event here at the museum today.
00:33:02Thank you to the museum to allow us to do this in the museum.
00:33:07An event that, you know, we talk about mental health for jockeys.
00:33:11And not only the jockeys and their families, but also opening the doors for the rest of the industry.
00:33:17It was about, you know, jockey health, mental health, if you will.
00:33:20And talking about, you know, things that all the frustrations and ups that now the jockeys and their families go through.
00:33:28Obviously, you know, depression hits everybody.
00:33:32But when you're in a business that we are and the pressure is so much about making, just making enough money to, you know, to pay your rent.
00:33:42Not all roses like all the top jockeys.
00:33:45And I'm one of those, one of the blessed ones that being very blessed to be here for this many years and have the kind of career that I have.
00:33:53But we all go through the same pressure.
00:33:55We all go through the same thing.
00:33:56I'm the best one who were with all my injuries and everything still here riding and trying to help the less fortunate.
00:34:04And hopefully this today kind of really hits people and the awareness that, you know, that we got to do more for the jockeys.
00:34:15This Saratoga Minute was brought to you by Naira Bets.
00:34:17You can sign up now for Naira Bets and get a matching deposit of up to $200.
00:34:22Bet any track anywhere, anytime.
00:34:24Just make a deposit within 30 days of signing up for your account.
00:34:28Bet twice the amount of that initial deposit and you'll receive a wagering credit matching that initial first deposit.
00:34:36You sign up with promo code SPA200 to get your deposit matched today.
00:34:42The TD and Writer's Room brought to you by The Green Group, a tax accounting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:34:48Headed by Lynn Green, who probably at this very moment is handicapping the IRS tax code to try to figure out,
00:34:56and I'm going to channel my inner Jim McIngvale here, how to save you money on your taxes.
00:35:03And now for our Green Group guest of the week.
00:35:05Lo and behold, my broadcast partner for 18 years, believe it or not, Mr. Jerry Bailey.
00:35:12Jerry, how's the golf game?
00:35:14What did you shoot this morning?
00:35:15I didn't play this morning.
00:35:16I didn't really have a good game this morning.
00:35:21I've been playing.
00:35:22It's golf, Randy.
00:35:23Some days it's great.
00:35:24Some days it's not so great.
00:35:26Are you feeling okay?
00:35:27You didn't play this morning.
00:35:28Oh, my God.
00:35:29All right.
00:35:30Let's cut to the nitty gritty here.
00:35:32I had a prior commitment situation.
00:35:34Ah, okay.
00:35:36Okay.
00:35:37So we've already discussed this at length, the Jim Dandy, Forte, Ira Ortiz.
00:35:44I know you watched it closely.
00:35:47You and I tend to have different opinions often about potential fouls and potential disqualifications and all that.
00:35:54What were your thoughts on the no call for Forte?
00:36:00I thought it was a bad call.
00:36:03I thought he was the best horse in the race, but I thought he should have come down.
00:36:08The rules of racing state that if you are not clear of somebody and you change paths and you interfere with their progress, which he clearly did, then you should be disqualified.
00:36:19I mean, if you look at the chart, even the chart says he forced his way out.
00:36:22I'm paraphrasing here.
00:36:24Several repeatedly bumping the outside horse repeatedly, and then he came back in and it was negligent at the very end.
00:36:32But he came all the way back in and touched on Saudi Crown as well.
00:36:38So, yeah, I thought he should have come down.
00:36:42Did it surprise you, Brad Cox's comments, that he agreed with the call and that they left him up?
00:36:52Yeah, a couple of things surprised me.
00:36:53First of all, that Flavio Pratt didn't claim foul.
00:36:57I know he wasn't going to be the winner, but he was riding for Brad Cox, who had the second place horse in there.
00:37:06And it did surprise me.
00:37:07But if you read Brad Cox's further comments, he didn't think that stuff should be allowed.
00:37:15I think, again, paraphrasing, but he wasn't happy that riders are allowed to ride like that.
00:37:20And I totally agree.
00:37:21Look, you want as safe a product out on the track as you can possibly get for both horse and rider.
00:37:29And I'll tell you from experience.
00:37:30I went through it myself.
00:37:32I won't name the riders.
00:37:33But there were two or three in New York that the stewards let get carried away and go over the line repeatedly.
00:37:41And then the line gets farther and farther away.
00:37:44And it gets more severe.
00:37:46And what happens is the riders take it into their own hands.
00:37:49If the stewards are not policing the riders and enforcing the rules, then the riders are left to police themselves.
00:37:57And that is not a good situation.
00:37:59Is that what happened in the situation that you're referring to?
00:38:03Well, no, I don't think that the stewards, I think, should have taken the number down.
00:38:08By not taking that number down, they're saying it's okay to do that kind of stuff.
00:38:12So next week, next month, whatever, you're going to have other riders doing the same thing that a Rat Ortiz does.
00:38:19And you're going to have a Rat Ortiz doing it more and more and more and being more flagrant about it.
00:38:24You only have to go back a couple of years in December at Aqueduct and watch his performance in a couple of stakes on the late December weekend.
00:38:32And he was out of control that weekend.
00:38:35And they gave him 30 days for that.
00:38:37So those are the kind of things that end up happening when you don't make the riders follow the rules.
00:38:43Is the controversy at a different level because IRAD is involved?
00:38:47He's often, as you mentioned, that was the Remsen stakes weekend.
00:38:52And it seems to just get heated up a notch more when it's IRAD involved.
00:38:58Is that fair to say?
00:39:00No, I think it's not fair to say.
00:39:02I think it gets ratcheted up when you have a rider going that far over the line.
00:39:07It happened to be IRAD in both cases.
00:39:09But any rider should be subject to the same rules.
00:39:12And if he goes that far over, then there's going to be headlines.
00:39:18Obviously, the headlines are going to be a little bolder when it's a rider like a Rad with a reputation of being a leading rider of the country, leading rider in New York.
00:39:26Of course, they'll be the voices will be a little bit louder.
00:39:29But it's the it's it's the same basic philosophy.
00:39:33You let the riders get away with too much and they will take it.
00:39:37So, Jerry, you mentioned your earlier experience without naming names where a couple of riders were taking things over the line and the stewards were allowing them to do it in that situation.
00:39:48In your recollection, did the jockeys take matters into their own hands?
00:39:52And how was that done?
00:39:54Hell, yes. Retaliation.
00:39:56It's exactly how it's done.
00:39:58And I was the I was one of the retaliators.
00:40:01And it's not good.
00:40:02It's not good.
00:40:03I'm just telling you.
00:40:04I'm going to give you an example.
00:40:06The rider came into the steward's office after flagrantly shutting somebody off into the far turn at Aqueduct one year.
00:40:12And he blamed it on the horse outside or his horse changing leads.
00:40:17Well, he just shut the guy off on the rail is what happened.
00:40:20And so he suggested to the stewards that they paint arrows on the rail when you get close to the turn.
00:40:25So these riders know to give more room because the turn is coming up.
00:40:30We painted arrows on the rail.
00:40:32I mean, come on.
00:40:33Yes, they did.
00:40:35Really? Are you kidding me?
00:40:37I'm not. You can't make this stuff up.
00:40:39Zoe, this happened.
00:40:41Dr. Gilman was one of the stewards.
00:40:43So what kind of retaliation did did you get?
00:40:47That was going to be my next question.
00:40:49Like retaliation.
00:40:51You set a trap.
00:40:53You set a trap.
00:40:54You stay off the rail.
00:40:55And when this guy runs up inside, you shut him off and you look for you set it up to happen.
00:41:00Because if he keeps taking advantage of you repeatedly without consequences, that's your only recourse.
00:41:06On the other side of retaliation, maybe taking this back, Jerry, to when you were first breaking in as a younger rider.
00:41:14Jockeys are unique among athletes because they want to teach their brethren, the up and coming riders, the rules of the road, so to speak, because everybody's safety is involved.
00:41:25Aside from retaliation, when riders are young and they're just coming up through the system, how do the more veteran presences in the jockey's room establish what the code of safety is going to be out there?
00:41:37And can you remember a time when you got some good advice from a senior rider when you were just breaking in?
00:41:41Sure.
00:41:42Great question.
00:41:43The first set of days I got, I only got about five sets of days in 31 years.
00:41:47But the first set of days I got was for running up in between horses down the backside and crowding.
00:41:53There was a spot, but I did make it more crowded when my horse ran up in there.
00:41:58And I've got seven days for it.
00:42:00And I learned right then, let there be breathing room between horses.
00:42:04And the best way to teach young riders is to pull them off to the side and go over the video with them immediately after the race, if you can, if tempers allow.
00:42:15A lot of times, you know, the blood pressure level is up a little bit right after a race.
00:42:20But the best race is to go over the films with these kids.
00:42:23But the kids have to be teachable.
00:42:25A lot of times they are.
00:42:26Sometimes they're not.
00:42:28So in the case of the retaliation with you and the other riders, did it work?
00:42:33Did Angel Codero kind of cool off a little bit after that?
00:42:40Yes, it works.
00:42:42It works.
00:42:44So aside from retaliation on the racetrack, I've been in plenty of Jock's room.
00:42:49And there's always a little bit of fighting, a little bit of scrimmaging, name calling afterwards.
00:42:53Did you ever get involved in that?
00:42:55I mean, were you the first to throw a punch maybe a couple of times or not?
00:42:59I went after Ali one time and I had to knock Migliore out of the way to get to him because Richie was going after him at the same time.
00:43:06So that's no kidding.
00:43:10But yeah, it rarely comes to fighting in there, although it does happen.
00:43:16You know, it's not unheard of.
00:43:17Let's put it like that.
00:43:19You know, usually the fact that they know that you're going to retaliate if they keep getting you on a routine basis, that's generally enough.
00:43:28And especially if you actually do it.
00:43:30Jerry, kind of getting back to the breaking into the game and the teaching of young riders, you've been out of the saddle now for a while.
00:43:39And you've seen essentially pretty much half a generation, almost a whole generation of new riders coming up through the ranks.
00:43:45How is it different than when you were breaking in back in the mid-1970s?
00:43:50Harder, easier, different in certain respects?
00:43:52What's your take on that?
00:43:54I don't know that it's harder or easier.
00:43:56I think it's different.
00:43:58It seems to me like we had a lot more foundation when we came up when I was a young rider.
00:44:04I mean, look, I walked horses, I rubbed horses, I galloped horses for three or four years before I even rode a race.
00:44:11I rode bush tracks around Texas, not to the extent that a lot of other guys did.
00:44:16But I had a dozen or so races before I even rode a parimutuel race.
00:44:21And around Texas, Louisiana, New Mexico, that was commonplace.
00:44:25Now, they have jockey schools elsewhere, which we did not have, which would, I guess, accomplish the same thing.
00:44:33But I think it's just at least it's my perception that the basic horsemanship might have been better back in the day than it is now.
00:44:43Not necessarily gate to wire, but horsemanship in general and being able to tell a trainer when you get off a horse, if there's a problem, where the problem might be on the horse.
00:44:52I was going to ask you if Eddie Arcaro was nice to you in the jockey's room, but I've used that joke before, so I won't I won't I won't go there, Jerry.
00:45:03What do you miss the most?
00:45:06About being in the saddle, obviously not these situations that we're talking about right now with retaliation and guys like Ira Ortiz, et cetera, et cetera.
00:45:14But there have got to be some things that you really miss about it.
00:45:18What are they?
00:45:19I miss winning.
00:45:20I mean, to me, that's what it was all about.
00:45:25I grew up with horses, but I got in the game to compete.
00:45:31And the thrill of winning and the adrenaline rush that it gave me was what motivated me.
00:45:39Look, I would it's easier to win by three or four on a six to five shot.
00:45:44It's circling the field.
00:45:45But I got much more of adrenaline rush coming up the rail.
00:45:49And winning races sometimes that maybe I wasn't supposed to win or had to do exactly what I did to win.
00:45:56And it's that rush that is the one thing that I miss.
00:46:01The competitive juices, that's why I play golf.
00:46:03I mean, it's not nearly the same thing, but it's the competition.
00:46:07Jerry, you are an extremely competitive guy.
00:46:10I think anyone that knows you can see that with all the new rules and regulations that have been going on as of late, the whip rule.
00:46:20We know that you've been for the whip rule.
00:46:22How do you think you would fare now riding like you used to ride?
00:46:27Because you're one of the strongest finishers in the game that I've ever seen.
00:46:31Yeah, that's a good question, Zoe, because I was an avid user of the whip.
00:46:35I've admitted that even though I think that let's get this straight first.
00:46:40I've advocated for no whip because I think it's so hard to remember how many times you've hit a horse or how high you've raised your shoulder, whatever the rules might be in a particular state.
00:46:50And they vary from state to state for a long time.
00:46:54I would have found it difficult to keep track.
00:46:57And so that's why I came up with the opinion.
00:47:00It's so hard to do that.
00:47:02And one rider might take advantage even though the limit is six.
00:47:05Let me hit him eight times just to beat you by a nose that it was extremely unfair.
00:47:11I thought, well, just take it away.
00:47:13If you just take it away, then everybody's on a level playing field.
00:47:16And I've always been an advocate that the reins are the best steering mechanism for any jockey on a horse.
00:47:23The whip, to me, is a poor excuse for guiding a horse.
00:47:28To me, it's the reins.
00:47:30I think I would have tried to adapt to a certain degree.
00:47:32I think the whip sometimes is a lazy way to win a race.
00:47:39It is much more physical and much harder to hand ride a horse all the way through the stretch with very little whipping than it is to just resort to the whip.
00:47:49You and I have also talked about the public image that it creates for people that might not necessarily be hardcore horse racing fans.
00:47:58It's probably not fair just to pull out one example, but Victor Espinosa hitting American Pharoah 25 times in the run through the stretch of the Kentucky Derby, things like that.
00:48:09It's a good point, Randy, because I now have had the opportunity to see it from a different angle for many, many years now.
00:48:18I've got two different perspectives here.
00:48:20And I also said that I would have been the first guy to scream, don't take my whip away.
00:48:24As I said, I was an avid user of the whip.
00:48:26So I want to get that out there.
00:48:28I want to clarify that right away.
00:48:30But seeing it now from the other side, most of my friends now are non-racing friends.
00:48:37And so I get a perspective from people that only watch five days of racing a year, the three Triple Crown races, the Breeders' Cup two days, and that's it.
00:48:49And I get a lot of the, why do they whip the horses?
00:48:51They say they want to run.
00:48:53So why do they have to whip them?
00:48:55So I see, I understand the perception of a lot of the public thinking it's cruel and unusual.
00:49:02Even though I don't think it particularly hurts a horse, the perception is that it's inhumane.
00:49:09So my opinions have been formed now from getting other opinions other than what I heard around the racetrack.
00:49:18I want to point out something, and this is on the forte thing of the other day.
00:49:23There's a lot of perception out there that racing is not very transparent.
00:49:29Be it from the Navarro service stuff, the drugs that were involved, people screaming, well, we're not, you know, we're not abusing horses.
00:49:39We're not giving horses drugs.
00:49:41When it comes out years later, of course, they were giving, you know, banned substances.
00:49:44So when I go back to watch a race like the Jim Dandy and Naira or First or Churchill has already taken the video down, I am incensed.
00:49:58They took the video down on Rebels Romance the other day in the bowling green.
00:50:02I wanted to see what I had to go to YouTube, and I did find it.
00:50:05But to me, that's not being transparent to the public.
00:50:08And the less transparent you are, builds less trust with the public that you're trying to encourage to trust you to run a great sport.
00:50:17So I have a problem with that.
00:50:19That's a good point there.
00:50:21We've been selectively editing out portions of important races now for a couple of years, and it is something that does stand out.
00:50:30I wanted to get back to your point about competition and the competitive juices that flow.
00:50:34And, you know, when you were coming down the stretch, this is a hypothetical question, two parts for you.
00:50:41When you looked over your shoulder, who is the one rival that you did not want to see and get hooked up in a stretch duel with?
00:50:48And that's all the guys that you wrote and men and women that you wrote against.
00:50:51And also, now that you're watching it again from a different vantage point, who is the contemporary rider who you would say, oh, geez, I don't want to get hooked up with this person?
00:50:59I'll take the last question first.
00:51:01It would be it would probably be Joel Rosario.
00:51:04To me, he's like he's the pen.
00:51:07This generation's pen guy.
00:51:09He's really strong.
00:51:11He doesn't resort to the whip much.
00:51:13It's mostly arms and shoulders.
00:51:15And he's a strong rider.
00:51:17Back in my day, Angel was the toughest competitor I competed with daily.
00:51:21And I didn't ride with Lafitte on a daily basis.
00:51:24And although he was stronger than any other rider in the country, but it would be Angel.
00:51:29But it wasn't Angel that I looked over my shoulder, you know, and worried about.
00:51:35He was usually in front of me, you know, carrying guys out or carrying me out.
00:51:39Or that's the kind of stuff that Angel would do.
00:51:43You know, and most of the times within the rules, you know, as I said previously, he would cross the line sometimes.
00:51:49But he was he was really, really good at taking it to the line without crossing it a lot of the time.
00:51:56I'm sure Lafitte Penkai wouldn't be in Belmont with a caveat.
00:52:01But of course, he crossed the lines often enough to be annoying.
00:52:06But the majority of the time, he would do it within the lines.
00:52:11All right. I'm going to lighten it up a little bit.
00:52:13You missed the competition, et cetera, et cetera.
00:52:16I know from talking to you in the past, you also missed the camaraderie that existed in the jockey's room for a while.
00:52:22The best practical joke that you were around and that either against you or to somebody else that you can actually talk about.
00:52:32OK, there's a couple, but I'll pick one of them.
00:52:36So it was one of the years I was riding at Monmouth Park.
00:52:40So it had to be 78 or 79.
00:52:43And there was a certain jockey that would go to the snack bar and eat like crazy and then go in there and he'd flip, he'd heave.
00:52:54And they only had two stalls at Monmouth.
00:52:57So Brian Fan went in and put two sets of jocks boots in the stalls, facing out as if somebody were in there using the toilet.
00:53:08And so this particular jockey, predictable enough, filled up and he rode the first race.
00:53:16So he had limited time to get rid of all this food that he just ate.
00:53:20And he was pacing back and forth, banging on the stalls of the toilets, saying, hey, guys, I ride the first race.
00:53:27Somebody's got to come out of here. I've got to heave.
00:53:30That was the funniest moment I think I ever saw in my life because it was so dramatic and it was so urgent.
00:53:37That is very funny. All right, I've got another one for you.
00:53:40What are the daftest set of instructions that you ever got while you were riding?
00:53:46We've heard some crazy ones, but I'm sure that you have some.
00:53:50Yeah, I've got one that always stands out above the rest.
00:53:55I was riding a filly at Aqueduct.
00:53:57It was in the winter. I only stayed one winter, so it had to be like 86 or 87, something like that.
00:54:04And she was a speed filly that always stopped.
00:54:07I could see that on the form. I'd never ridden her before.
00:54:10I don't remember who the trainer was, but I went into the paddock and he said, listen, this filly is kind of hyper.
00:54:17She kind of a runoff. And I said, yeah, I can see that on the form.
00:54:20And he said, the best way to settle her down is to sing to her.
00:54:24And I thought, are you serious?
00:54:27And he said, yes, if you could sing to her down the backstretch, she really,
00:54:32if the girl that gets on her sings to her, she settles right down in the morning.
00:54:35I said, all right, I'll give it a shot.
00:54:37And the only song I could think of was Jingle Bells.
00:54:41So I was singing Jingle Bells down the backside on this filly at Aqueduct in the winter.
00:54:48Obviously, the trainer had never heard you sing, right?
00:54:50Did it work?
00:54:52Apparently, yes, it did not work.
00:54:56I don't even know if Randy's heard that story before.
00:54:59In the subset of horses that you never had to sing to, which is pretty much everybody else.
00:55:04What is the one ride of your life that stands out?
00:55:08What is your defining ride?
00:55:10Defining horse?
00:55:12Defining race?
00:55:13Well, look, the defining horse would be Cigar, but I was probably just a good passenger most of the time on him.
00:55:22Because it was the Derby, I would say probably Grindstone.
00:55:26Sea Hero, I'm pretty proud of that ride, but because Grindstone won by a nose,
00:55:33I would have to say Grindstone.
00:55:35And what do you remember the most about that?
00:55:37To context, I would have to say Grindstone.
00:55:39Just a wall of horses down the backside and being so far back because he was a horse that previously won the Louisiana Derby.
00:55:47He was second in the Arkansas Derby, but he would place me in a race.
00:55:50Mid pack at worst.
00:55:52He was aggressive enough.
00:55:54I wouldn't have a tremendous amount of ground to make up.
00:55:57In the Derby, he was like 16th, I think.
00:56:00He was much further back than he had ever been before.
00:56:02So there was a lot more to do with a lot more horses to get through.
00:56:06So, I mean, it was never really panic time, but there was a concern hitting up the backside that everything had to go right to win.
00:56:16And it did.
00:56:18If you could do over one race, what would you do?
00:56:22I think I would have to say Grindstone.
00:56:24I would have to say Grindstone.
00:56:25I think I would have to say Grindstone.
00:56:27Everything had to go right to win.
00:56:29And it did.
00:56:31If you could do over one race, what would it be, Jerry?
00:56:34I know the answer to this one.
00:56:37Well, yeah, it would have to be the Pacific Classic.
00:56:42But look, I don't know.
00:56:49I mean, I've rerun that race now in the last 18 years.
00:56:52Obviously, I've missed a few years thinking about it because time heals all.
00:56:58But in the first month, five times a day, I'd rerun that race in my mind.
00:57:03And I really don't know what I would have done differently because Siphon had just beaten another horse that I'd ridden named Jerry at Hollywood Park.
00:57:16And he beat me because I let him get away on the lead too long.
00:57:20So I knew I couldn't let Siphon get away.
00:57:22And then Nakatani was trying to keep me in all the way down the stretch in the first turn.
00:57:31So I thought the last thing I want to have happen is to just give it up, tuck in behind Siphon, let him slow the pace down, and he's going to kick away from me, turn for home, and I'll never get him.
00:57:40So I kept trying to keep my space.
00:57:42But in doing that, I had to ask Cigar to run faster and faster and faster around the first turn, halfway down the backside, just to keep Nakatani from trapping me, boxing me in behind Siphon.
00:57:55And look, I get it.
00:57:57I did that a million times myself to guys trying to beat him.
00:58:01I had the target on my back with Cigar.
00:58:04And it's everybody else's job to try and beat me.
00:58:07And everybody played within the rules.
00:58:08But to me, it was a no-win scenario.
00:58:13And I thought the last thing I wanted to do was get Cigar trapped and never give him a chance to get out and run.
00:58:23And I also kind of had thought he was bulletproof by then.
00:58:27I didn't think there was much that that horse couldn't do by that point.
00:58:31And maybe a year earlier, he could have withstood that and still won.
00:58:34But at that time in his career, that was too much for me to ask.
00:58:38So I don't know if I could have done anything different.
00:58:42But that's the one I'd like to have over.
00:58:44What's the dynamic like working with Randy Moss?
00:58:48How is that?
00:58:50I mean, you two are like brothers on the set.
00:58:52Give me give me some examples.
00:58:54I mean, yeah, it's like a security blanket.
00:58:59We don't disagree often.
00:59:02We are best friends.
00:59:04But when we do disagree, I mean, we still disagree about California Chrome and the Belmont.
00:59:10And that's how many years ago?
00:59:14Eleven? A long time ago.
00:59:16I forgot what year it was now. 2012?
00:59:18Yeah.
00:59:20I still think Victor had no other choice but to tuck in and Randy still thinks he should have got him out.
00:59:25So we'll go to our graves disagreeing about that one.
00:59:28But it's amazing that I'll sit in Fort Lauderdale and he'll be up in Minneapolis or
00:59:34Pryor Lake.
00:59:36And we'll look at the same race and come to the same conclusion without ever talking to each other.
00:59:44And if we have time for it, Randy is.
00:59:48Sure, go ahead.
00:59:50He texted me one night. He said, I've got the winner of the.
00:59:53Of the.
00:59:55The race at Churchill, the grass race before the Kentucky Derby.
01:00:01Whatever that's going to win for reserve.
01:00:03And so I looked at it, you know, I hadn't gone over it yet.
01:00:06I know exactly who it is.
01:00:08And it was the same horse.
01:00:10We have similar senses of humor to Zoe.
01:00:12So we crack each other up like all the time.
01:00:15And it starts to worry the producers after a while.
01:00:19One quick one. There was one show.
01:00:21I think we were at Belmont and we were coming right on with the race.
01:00:24And we were like one minute, 45 seconds to air.
01:00:27And one of the horses we were covering, we were going to talk about was a horse named Peej.
01:00:32Peej.
01:00:34And so Jerry leans over to me with his past performances and points to the horse and says,
01:00:38how do you pronounce this horse's name?
01:00:40And I said, the J is silent.
01:00:43And he said, oh, OK, OK, OK.
01:00:45And then he looks down at a sheet and sees Peej.
01:00:48The J is silent and just absolutely, absolutely loses it.
01:00:52And then he starts cracking up and then I lose it.
01:00:55And the producers like.
01:00:57For 10 seconds there, are you guys going to be OK?
01:00:58There are tears coming down both of our faces, you know, but we somehow made it anyway.
01:01:03The reason I've lasted 18 years is because we have fun.
01:01:07That's the reason.
01:01:09Well, fun today as well.
01:01:11Thanks for taking the time, my man.
01:01:13Thank you, guys. Nice speaking with you.
01:01:15As the Green Group guest of the week, Jerry Bailey will receive a free one hour tax consultation from Lynn Green and the Green Group.
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01:02:31Honor AP. A mesmerizing horse from the very beginning.
01:02:36Who captured the imagination of the racing world and proved his potential on the track.
01:02:41A grade one winner. Out of a multiple grade one winner.
01:02:46With incomparable looks and an unbeatable pedigree.
01:02:50The speed. The bloodline. The physical.
01:02:54Honor AP. Only at Lane's End.
01:03:01The TDN Rises Room is brought to you by Lane's End.
01:03:05This week's Lane's End Sire of the Week is Honor AP.
01:03:08And my goodness, is he a good looking horse.
01:03:11His first yearling sale this year.
01:03:14Honor AP was the top selling yearling from Honor Code's first crop bringing 850,000 at the 2018 Saratoga sale.
01:03:23I still remember seeing him in that barn to this day.
01:03:27He was absolutely gorgeous.
01:03:29He broke his maiden on debut as a two-year-old and was a very easy winner of the Santa Anita Derby for trainer John Sheriffs.
01:03:35Look for hit number 99, his colt, selling with tailor-made sales at this year's Basic Tipton Saratoga sale.
01:03:45So a fantastic last week of racing at Saratoga and Del Mar.
01:03:49And now we look ahead to what's coming up this weekend, including a day on Saturday at Saratoga where they card five stakes races.
01:03:57Three big ones that we'll talk about here.
01:03:59Let's start with the Whitney TD.
01:04:01TD, Cody's wish will try to stretch that, I don't want to say speed because he's a come from behind her,
01:04:09but stretch his abilities to a mile and an eighth for only the second time in his career.
01:04:15The first time since he was a maiden way back in July of 2021.
01:04:19Your thoughts on Cody's wish at the longer distance and whether that might make him vulnerable or not.
01:04:25Yeah, I don't know if it's the longer distance that makes him vulnerable.
01:04:27What makes him vulnerable in my eyes is that he is a drop back, loop the group and just finish with authority type of horse.
01:04:36And that doesn't, you know, it's worked for him extremely well so far, obviously, but he's been outclassing the competition so much.
01:04:44Certainly he can outclass the competition again today because they're having on Saturday because they're having trouble finding horses who he hasn't already beat before to run against him.
01:04:54The two, three and four horses that he beat in the Met Mile are coming back.
01:04:59Zanden with Joel Rosario replacing Flavia Pratt on Saturday.
01:05:04White Abario ran third in the Met Mile and Chargette who ran fourth in that race and then just won the 10 furlong suburban in an absolute canter.
01:05:16He could be a speed threat at nine furlongs.
01:05:18Last horse to double up and win the Met Mile and the Whitney was Frosted back in 2016, another good dolphin color bearer.
01:05:27And, you know, I don't know if it's going to be the distance getting to Cody's wish so much as how the pace shakes out and whether or not, you know, you try that move coming from off the tailgate and passing everybody widest on the turn.
01:05:41Often enough, it's going to bite you one of these times.
01:05:44So we'll see what happens.
01:05:46Zoe, do you trust Chargette at this point?
01:05:50Having watched him train here at Saratoga, I can't talk you off of him.
01:05:56Honestly, he's training like an absolute bear.
01:05:58I think he likes this track.
01:06:00Watching him get over the track.
01:06:02I love Cody's wish and I have it on good authority that young Cody Dorman is going to be here.
01:06:07They're going to fly him in.
01:06:09So that's great.
01:06:11He's never lost with Cody there.
01:06:13He's going to come in and see the race.
01:06:15He's training phenomenally.
01:06:17Now, Bill always trains him over on the Oklahoma track so you can catch his works on XBTV.
01:06:22They're not on the main track.
01:06:24They're always on the training track.
01:06:26His last work was just what Bill wanted.
01:06:28I mean, of course, you'd never heard a trainer really say that's not what I wanted, but it was perfect.
01:06:33He went off nice and easy under Neil Poznanski and finished up.
01:06:37So it's Cody's wish race to lose.
01:06:40I'm not worried about the two turns for him whatsoever, but I am worried about Chargette.
01:06:45Yes, the Suburban was a terrible race and he was miles the best in that race.
01:06:50But he's trained so darn well here.
01:06:53You know, we're not going to have Westworld power.
01:06:55He's not going in there.
01:06:57I just keep going back to Chargette and I don't know why because I can't really say that his Suburban would talk me on.
01:07:06And the only thing that can talk me on to him is the fact that he trains so darn well over this track.
01:07:12But I'm all for Cody's wish in there.
01:07:13All right.
01:07:15One of the other grade one races on Saturday, the test stakes for three-year-old Phillies at seven furlongs, according to the racing office.
01:07:21As we take this now on Tuesday afternoon, entries aren't actually taken until tomorrow, until Wednesday.
01:07:27But they're expecting pretty mischievous the Kentucky Oaks winner, the undefeated Maple Leaf male who's five for five.
01:07:33Money's Gold, who's trying to bounce back from a couple of disappointing runs or at least losses after starting her career so quickly.
01:07:39The gutsy Dorth Vader, clearly unhinged out from Santa Anita, who's got a lot of ability and then a couple of other long shots, a few other long shots in here.
01:07:49TD, I know Maple Leaf male is going to get a lot of action because she's five for five, just won the victory ride at Belmont.
01:07:56I think she's a bet against.
01:07:58I wouldn't be surprised to see her win, but she's going to be facing much tougher competition, much tougher pace pressure than she's ever had to face before.
01:08:07And I think it's an opportunity to try to take advantage of that potential vulnerability.
01:08:12What do you think about that?
01:08:13I agree with you on that, but the question is who?
01:08:16I think a lot of the race hinges on pretty mischievous.
01:08:20She was the victress in the Kentucky Oaks.
01:08:22Remember, she broke from way outside in the outside post, gave up a lot of ground and was able to deliver the goods at nine furlongs.
01:08:30Then she cut back to a mile and a sixteenth in the Acorn, her next start on the day before the Belmont stakes.
01:08:35And she had a really hard time shrugging free from Dorth Vader and putting her away in that race.
01:08:43Now she's cutting back to seven furlongs.
01:08:46Ordinarily something that I would not be too crazy about, nine furlongs, mile and a sixteenth, seven.
01:08:52Trainer Brendan Walsh, however, says he thinks seven furlongs has a chance to be her sweet spot.
01:08:57He thinks that her high cruising speed is going to suit her well getting back around one turn in that race.
01:09:04I might have to throw my weight behind Money's Gold in here.
01:09:08She was the beaten favorite in the Acorn.
01:09:10She ran fourth on that afternoon.
01:09:12She, to me, seems like much more of a pure sprinter.
01:09:16She's a little bit of a headstrong sort, however.
01:09:18Two races back when she ran second in the Eight Bells, she was put away.
01:09:25And then she came back and just bobbed for the win.
01:09:28She was on the wrong side of the losing photograph there.
01:09:29But I think of the ones that we're going to see here who line up at seven furlongs,
01:09:35she looks to be more, she looks to be best suited to that distance for me.
01:09:39At the quarter pole at the Acorn, she looked like a winner.
01:09:42Zoe, she was a length and a half in front and looked like she was cruising.
01:09:44And then maybe the distance just got her.
01:09:46I'm right with you.
01:09:48I think it's going to be an upset.
01:09:50Maple Leaf Mel is a great story.
01:09:52Melanie Giddens, beaten cancer.
01:09:55That's her first stakes win.
01:09:56Coach Parcells.
01:09:58Great story.
01:10:00I just think she might be a cup below some of these.
01:10:02And I would root for her to win.
01:10:04As far as pretty mischievous, she's very laid back.
01:10:08Watching her work in the morning, Brendan Walsh comes up on the roof
01:10:11with the walkie-talkie to not only his exercise rider,
01:10:15but also a rad when he worked her last time out.
01:10:17She just breaks off so easily and she almost goes too slow
01:10:20at the beginning of her works.
01:10:22I'm not sure that seven furlongs is going to be great to her.
01:10:24I think Dorth Vader, cutting back to one turn,
01:10:28since Weaver's been training her, she looks like a different filly.
01:10:33She's not leaving it on the racetrack in the morning
01:10:35before you'd see her work 34 and change 46.
01:10:38We know she's fast.
01:10:40She's wickedly fast.
01:10:42She's much better around one turn than she is around two turns.
01:10:45Watching her work in the mornings here, she looks like she's put on weight.
01:10:49I'm not saying Michael Yates did a horrible job,
01:10:51although he did a great job with her for John Rose.
01:10:54John Rose still owns her now.
01:10:56George Weaver's doing a fantastic job with her.
01:10:59Slowed her down in the morning and I think that's really helped her
01:11:01in the afternoon.
01:11:03Her last race when she gave it all to pretty mischievous was good.
01:11:06I think this race is going to be better.
01:11:08I really like Dorth Vader.
01:11:10And she's a fighter too.
01:11:12She is pretty tenacious.
01:11:14She's kind of entertaining to watch.
01:11:16Now, also, the Belmont, excuse me, the Saratoga Derby,
01:11:18I almost said Belmont Derby because we have the Belmont Derby winner
01:11:20in there, Far Bridge, as well as the third-place finisher
01:11:24in the Belmont Derby, Mondego, who set a very slow pace that day,
01:11:28and then Web Slinger, fourth-place finisher, Chad Brown,
01:11:31expected to go with Seth Klarman's program trading,
01:11:34who is two for two.
01:11:36Zoe, we don't really have any strong, you know,
01:11:39Charlie Appleby Europeans making the trip over.
01:11:43One lower-level European that's going to be a long-shot Lion of War.
01:11:46What did you think about Far Bridge and his win in the Belmont Derby?
01:11:50I think we're going to be cheering on those LSU colors once more.
01:11:54And we'll be talking about the story again with those trademark colors
01:11:58being on the back of the jockey's back on Far Bridge.
01:12:01I think he's a winner.
01:12:03And he's trained terrifically as well for Todd.
01:12:05I think it's Todd's turn to win this.
01:12:07Right. I did this before the Belmont Derby,
01:12:10and I'm going to go back to it one more time.
01:12:12I mean, I definitely think Far Bridge is the horse to beat, okay?
01:12:14But if you're a trip handicapper and you go back and you watch
01:12:17the Belmont Derby, Far Bridge gets through on the inside
01:12:20almost all the way around, certainly all the way around the second turn.
01:12:24Cut the corner, got through along the rail, came out for the stretch,
01:12:28closed in 22-4 for the final quarter, ran great,
01:12:31coming off a slow pace that should have hurt his chances.
01:12:35Web Slinger was even farther back than Far Bridge was,
01:12:40was 4-5 wide around the second turn while Far Bridge was on the rail,
01:12:45was fanned about 6 wide at the top of the stretch,
01:12:47and only finished like a length and a half or so behind Far Bridge at the wire.
01:12:52I mean, I think Web Slinger, who's probably going to be, you know,
01:12:565-6 to 1, maybe a little lower than that,
01:13:00but I think he's an excellent play for you trip handicappers out there.
01:13:04TD, I know you're a trip handicapper as well.
01:13:07Yeah, I think you stole my script there because, you know,
01:13:11I will live and die by those type of horses who really catch the eye,
01:13:14and a lot of times I burn my bankroll, but that's his MO,
01:13:18that's what he's been doing since he's been blossoming this year as a 3-year-old,
01:13:22spotting the field plenty, winding up, making one big move,
01:13:26and sometimes he has to fight through traffic and sometimes he takes the overland route.
01:13:31And Zoe Adelmar, the Clement Hirsch for Phillies and Mayors,
01:13:34Mile on the 16th, Adair Manor's probably going to be,
01:13:37if she goes, we think she's going to go again, they draw on Wednesday,
01:13:40we're taping this on Tuesday, she'll be 3-5, 4-5,
01:13:42but you think she may be a little vulnerable in there.
01:13:45Don't ask me why, I know she just won her last dart,
01:13:48and you'll see her in the paddock, she's a big, beautiful filly,
01:13:51stands at least 17 hands, but if window shopping goes, I like her.
01:13:56I really do, for Dick Mandela, and Mandela's on a tear right now,
01:14:00I think she's going to put it to Adair Manor, I really do.
01:14:04We'll have to wait and see.
01:14:06I don't think it's a terrific rendition of the Clement Hirsch,
01:14:08I've seen better in the past, and Adair Manor will be
01:14:12the overwhelming favorite for Hall of Famer Bob Baffert,
01:14:15but I'm going to go with window shopping.
01:14:17So who caught your eye with the XBTV Work of the Week this week?
01:14:21It's a B, Maple Leaf Mel.
01:14:24TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV,
01:14:27and this week's Work of the Week is Maple Leaf Mel,
01:14:30seen working here with Sean Bridgman, no less in the irons,
01:14:34he gets on her in the morning, and this is him working her
01:14:36right now, she is trained by Melanie Giddings,
01:14:39she went 49-1 over the main track solo,
01:14:43as she points to this Saturday's test, all eyes will be on her,
01:14:47she's a perfect 5-for-5, last seen taking down the grade 3
01:14:51Victory Ride stakes at Belmont before shipping to the spa,
01:14:55we'll see if the sentimental favorite can get it done.
01:14:58We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:15:06Music.
01:15:36Thrills.
01:15:40Fraction of the bills.
01:15:44Experience the power of the partnership.
01:15:49Change your life, make new friends,
01:15:52and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:15:57West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:16:01Visit westpointtb.com.
01:16:04The TD and Writer's Room, also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:16:08joining a West Point partnership can vault you into the world
01:16:12of instant camaraderie. This week, West Point provided one of the
01:16:16more emotional stories of the week, when they won Sunday's opener
01:16:19at Saratoga with a horse named Carson's Run.
01:16:22Now we've already talked about Cody Dorman, how he might be
01:16:25at Saratoga for the Whitney to watch Cody's Wish,
01:16:28what an emotional scene that always is.
01:16:29Cody Dorman, of course, suffers from Wolf Hirshhorn Syndrome.
01:16:33Well, the same disease also affects a young man named Carson Yost,
01:16:41whose father was a classmate at West Point of Terry Finlay.
01:16:46And that is why this horse was named Carson's Run.
01:16:50Yost's father thought his son would benefit from having a horse to root for,
01:16:55and he went in on a West Point partnership on the horse,
01:16:57and the Yost family and the Dorman family have already been communicating
01:17:02with each other about their shared experiences,
01:17:06and what a story it could be if Carson's Run continues on his winning ways.
01:17:10He will point next for the Great Three with anticipation on turf
01:17:14August the 31st at the Spa.
01:17:17Special thanks, obviously, to Zoe and TD and to our guest, Jerry Bailey,
01:17:22as well as our own Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, Allie LaRocca,
01:17:26and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:17:29You guys have any more pearls of wisdom to add here before we leave?
01:17:32Don't leave me hanging here.
01:17:34Don't run with Cisnerth, maybe.
01:17:36What?
01:17:38Pardon us.
01:17:40Our jingles out there.
01:17:41You can't see him.
01:17:43He's coughing up a lung in the background.
01:17:45Where's Lucy?
01:17:47Where is she?
01:17:49Lucy.
01:17:51There she is.
01:17:53She's alive.
01:17:55All right, guys.
01:17:57Thanks.
01:17:58We'll see you all next week, and Bill Grace, gratefully,
01:18:01will be back in the saddle.
01:18:11We'll see you then.

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