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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to this week's edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room.
00:00:32My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:33I'm a correspondent for the TDN, and I co-host the Down the Stretch radio show with Dave
00:00:37Johnston on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:39I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Buyer Speed Figure team.
00:00:43I'm Peter Torrenton, also a correspondent at TDN.
00:00:48Usually on the TDN Writer's Room podcast, we have the guest of the week, the Gainesville
00:00:52guest of the week.
00:00:53In the second or third segment, we're going to do something a little bit different today,
00:00:56and we're going to bring in Dale Romans, who is this week's Gainesville guest of the week.
00:01:00Dale is the president of the Kentucky Thoroughbred Horseman's Association, or Kentucky HBPA.
00:01:06He's not a member of the board of the Florida HBPA or Florida Horseman's Group, but he really
00:01:12keeps his finger on top of things.
00:01:14He's at Gulfstream for the winter.
00:01:17So Dale, I know that you care quite a bit about horseman's issues.
00:01:22You've obviously been following this.
00:01:24We have so much to talk about with the news that Gulfstream Park may not last any more
00:01:28than three more years.
00:01:30The first thing I want to ask you, there's been a lot of kind of disagreement or miscommunication.
00:01:36At first, it came out that the horseman's group was in favor of decoupling, then later
00:01:42came out that, no, that's not really the case, that we're just going to take a neutral stand.
00:01:47What do you understand as we speak is the official position of the horsemen?
00:01:51Well, I think that they came out in favor of decoupling.
00:01:54Why, I have no idea.
00:01:56But I will give the board some credit.
00:01:57I think they've listened to their constituents and for the horsemen here in South Florida
00:02:03and have changed their stance.
00:02:06This news that Gulfstream might be in peril, Dale, kind of comes up quickly to the general
00:02:10public.
00:02:11It was a surprise, I think, to the three of us here on the TDN Writer's Room.
00:02:16The Stronach Group, First Racing, which is their other corporate name, they've been talking
00:02:22for years about how racing and gaming is the number one revenue maker.
00:02:27They just invested a $10 million Tapita track, Gulfstream, this seemed to be coming out of
00:02:34the blue.
00:02:35Did the horsemen have any inkling that Gulfstream was in trouble and might not last beyond three
00:02:39more years?
00:02:40Well, I didn't.
00:02:41I had no inkling.
00:02:42I don't think regular horsemen on the back side, I can't speak for the board.
00:02:46Of their horsemen's group here, but I don't think anybody that races here had any idea
00:02:52what was in the plans.
00:02:54You know, what they're saying is the property has become too valuable for a racetrack to
00:02:59sit on it, basically.
00:03:01And that's why they want to decouple, because right now, the way to the state law is they
00:03:05have to run 40 days in order to have the casino license.
00:03:09And if you decouple, they wouldn't have to run at all.
00:03:12And they could basically close it if they wanted to and develop the property and still
00:03:17have the casino.
00:03:20So as part of the pitch to the horsemen that Keith Brackpool made a week ago last Wednesday,
00:03:28he said that Gulfstream would commit in writing, I believe he said, if the horsemen supported
00:03:34decoupling to three years of funding of purses from alternate sources other than the casino
00:03:42at the same level that horsemen had been getting in the past.
00:03:45In your opinion, is there any movement among the horsemen to accept that proposal?
00:03:52What's your gut feeling?
00:03:53My gut feeling is there isn't, Randy.
00:03:55Let me tell you what my personal feeling is about that.
00:03:59You know, it would probably take them more than three years to get all the planning done
00:04:03to get the property developed.
00:04:04By the time you rezoned and you did all the things you have to do with permits and stuff
00:04:08in South Florida.
00:04:10So I don't think they're really offering anything.
00:04:11And it's obviously not about the money going to purses because they say they'll keep the
00:04:16purse account whole.
00:04:18But what that tells you within three years, they could close down, have no incentive to
00:04:24raise, develop the property and still have the cornerstone of the development being a
00:04:28slot casino.
00:04:30So it's not about the money going into the purses.
00:04:34It's about developing the property and maintaining the slot casino on that development.
00:04:39Dale, we've talked a lot about the property values of places like Gulfstream.
00:04:45And I think it was maybe Randy that made a good comment that nobody's going to sell the
00:04:49property at Prairie Meadows.
00:04:51This is not worth very much money and that type of track.
00:04:54But obviously they're right.
00:04:55I mean, I know people don't want to hear it.
00:04:58And that Keith Brackwell right now is kind of the boogeyman to people.
00:05:02He's not wrong when he says that this property is worth a whole lot of money to the horsemen
00:05:08have any leverage, because if they fight this, what's stopping Belinda Stronach from pulling
00:05:15the plug literally the next day on racing and saying, you're not getting your three
00:05:19years, you're not getting three more hours out of me.
00:05:22Well, I mean, I don't know.
00:05:24Yes, it's her property and Belinda can do it and maximize her assets any way she wants
00:05:29to. But in my opinion.
00:05:32Would you shut down with the revenue producer tomorrow and is making your money, paying
00:05:38all the taxes on that property because that property is so valuable, what's the tax if
00:05:42it sits there empty for three years while they prepare to develop it?
00:05:46So I don't think that we're in jeopardy any time in the near future.
00:05:52I mean, three years is near future, though.
00:05:54I mean, that's the full crop is going to be born in Ocala this year.
00:05:58So but as far as setting down tomorrow, I don't think it would make business sense for
00:06:02her to do that because it is paying for their taxes, it's showing a profit, it's just
00:06:07not a big enough profit to stop from developing it over the future.
00:06:12Yeah, this is come on very quickly, as we said.
00:06:15So and you mentioned the three years is the kind of near or medium term.
00:06:19But what should we expect to happen in the next couple of weeks, next couple of months?
00:06:24Well, I think it's all up to Tallahassee.
00:06:26I mean, there's a bill that's in the House and it's got to pass through the House and
00:06:30the Senate and be signed by Governor DeSantis.
00:06:32And I believe there's some pretty powerful groups working against it.
00:06:36I mean, we all know it's much easier to kill a bill than it is to get one passed.
00:06:40So it's all up to Tallahassee what they do.
00:06:44So we know or at least we think we know that if the horsemen came out in support of
00:06:51decoupling, it would make the road to pass the bill a lot easier in Tallahassee.
00:06:57So when Keith Brackpool was meeting with the horsemen last week, essentially it was a
00:07:01negotiation by him, right?
00:07:04He was trying to get the horsemen on board to support what Gulfstream wanted to do.
00:07:09So he had a vested interest in gloom and doom and making things seem as desperate as
00:07:17possible to try to get the horsemen to join.
00:07:20Do you think there's any chance that maybe that was just sort of posturing and that
00:07:25they don't really feel like they want to completely cut the cord on racing at Gulfstream?
00:07:31Well, I don't think they want to completely cut the cord within the next three years.
00:07:35Like I said, it's probably take that long to get the place ready to develop.
00:07:39And if you cut the cord, there goes all the revenue that you do have coming in.
00:07:42This track is a profitable racetrack.
00:07:44This track's doing enough profit to probably sit on that piece of land.
00:07:50So I think, yeah, I'd say it was basically, to me, a threat.
00:07:53Either join us in Tallahassee or we will close before the three years.
00:07:57If you join us, then we'll guarantee three.
00:08:00But what's going to happen and what incentive is there to run a race meet on this
00:08:04property in three years if the casino can go on without running?
00:08:08What should be happening right now, then, if the horsemen believe that the clock is
00:08:13ticking and after three years there's likely to be no more Gulfstream Park?
00:08:18Well, I would like some of the powers a lot smarter than me to get involved and try to
00:08:21find a new place to race in South Florida.
00:08:23And if it happens down the road, do we have a place to go?
00:08:27I mean, the best scenario, in my opinion, which I don't know how feasible it is,
00:08:32but you go back to Hialeah.
00:08:34I mean, I was at Hialeah a couple of years ago.
00:08:36I just went back over there to reminisce.
00:08:37And I couldn't believe what good shape the grandstand's in.
00:08:39The racetrack's still there.
00:08:40The turf course is still there.
00:08:42It looked like a little maintenance on the racetrack.
00:08:44Put some barns up and you could open the doors tomorrow.
00:08:48And there's not a more beautiful racetrack in America.
00:08:52I've been told that it's a wild bird sanctuary.
00:08:55So that's a piece of land that can't really be developed.
00:08:58I mean, sure, there's a bunch of obstacles, but I think there's some powers to be in
00:09:02this game to start looking at it and trying to talk to the Burnettis and see if they
00:09:06have any interest in getting Hialeah back up and going.
00:09:09Dale, I think everybody would love to see that happen.
00:09:12I mean, Hialeah becoming what it is today is a tragedy.
00:09:16What a beautiful place it is.
00:09:18I've taken sort of a different stance.
00:09:19My suggestion was they should move racing to Palm Meadows.
00:09:22But let's get back to the Hialeah situation.
00:09:26And we know they have no barns anymore.
00:09:28I'm sure those can be rebuilt.
00:09:30But what I don't quite understand about this is an old man, Mr.
00:09:34Burnetti, has passed away, but his sons now run the racetrack.
00:09:37They don't need horse racing.
00:09:40They already have a casino and one that is apparently quite profitable, more profitable
00:09:45than the one at Gulfstream Park.
00:09:47So what would be in it for them?
00:09:49And why would they say yes to this?
00:09:51Well, they have to maintain the building still.
00:09:54The whole place is sitting there.
00:09:56I would think if they could rent the property, run a meet, not have to handle the
00:10:01maintenance anymore would be pretty big incentive.
00:10:05Plus, I think the Burnettis are racing fans and like racing.
00:10:09I don't think they wanted to close down there.
00:10:11I think that when they got rid of the commission in Florida, it was wild, wild west.
00:10:15You run any dates you want.
00:10:16And Gulfstream wanted to run over top of their dates and everybody was fighting for the
00:10:20premier dates. If you remember years ago, they used to alternate the early dates
00:10:25between Hialeah and Gulfstream and they called it a race every summer.
00:10:29When they got rid of the racing commission here, it basically said you can run
00:10:32wherever you want. It was the survival of the fittest.
00:10:35Who was going to last longer, Gulfstream or Hialeah running the primary?
00:10:39Premier dates against one another.
00:10:41Gulfstream won the battle.
00:10:43But if there wasn't competition and you could run at Hialeah, you could have your place
00:10:46maintained without any cost and probably get a nice rent check to do it.
00:10:52I think there is some incentive there.
00:10:55You talk about Palm Meadows, I would say that land is in the same situation that Gulfstream
00:11:00Park is. That's a very valuable piece of land in a rich neighborhood that could be
00:11:04developed probably for a lot better than a training center sitting there.
00:11:09That's what worries me about Palm Meadows.
00:11:11Dale, one thing just to clear up, even though this is a statewide bill and widening
00:11:17the lens a little bit here, my understanding is that Tampa Bay Downs would not be
00:11:21affected because Tampa Bay Downs only has a card room license and not a casino
00:11:26license. Is that correct?
00:11:27Yeah, that's that's the way I understand it, too.
00:11:29It doesn't affect Tampa, which, you know, it might be a boom for Tampa.
00:11:33Tampa's a great place, but, you know, if they had a little bit better person, it's a
00:11:38nice little racetrack and we could race there.
00:11:41But still, we're not developing players in South Florida anymore.
00:11:44We don't have the South Florida connection.
00:11:46And Tampa's still a long ways from here.
00:11:49Well, Dale, we've been talking different time frames, you know, three years.
00:11:52Let's look into your crystal ball.
00:11:54Let's talk 10 years.
00:11:56Where is South Florida racing 10 years from now?
00:11:59Is it running? Is it not running?
00:12:01If it is running, where is it running at?
00:12:03It's sad. How do you how do you see this playing out in the long run?
00:12:07I wish I had a crystal ball.
00:12:08And I'll tell you, I wish it would still be running at Gulfstream Park.
00:12:11I love the place. I like what Frank's done down here.
00:12:13The Astronix have been great for racing.
00:12:15I'd love to still see them in the game.
00:12:17My wish list would be that everything smooths out.
00:12:21We work together to develop some areas around Gulfstream and still running.
00:12:26It's too historic a racetrack to go away.
00:12:29You know, in the last 15 years, we've seen we've lost Hollywood,
00:12:32Calder, Arlington Park.
00:12:34I mean, whoever thought those racetracks would be gone.
00:12:39I just can't see not racing at Gulfstream.
00:12:41And this, you know, if this would be the first domino to fall,
00:12:45it should go on to some bigger, bigger things.
00:12:49It's it's interesting you said that about dominoes to fall, because
00:12:52and I'm not bringing up anything that anybody else hasn't thought about already.
00:12:56But once this is all settled and done
00:13:00and they come up with whatever they come up with,
00:13:02if you're a Southern California horseman, wouldn't you be worried we're next?
00:13:08You know, they're teetering out there.
00:13:10You know, that's a shame.
00:13:12I don't I don't know what the answer is for California.
00:13:14I'm not up to speed on it, but I know it's not good.
00:13:17And, you know, that that would be a real shame.
00:13:21It's a Gulfstream fell, California fell, Santa Anita fell.
00:13:26You know, it's not only that we don't have places to race,
00:13:28but we're not developing people into the game in those areas anymore.
00:13:31And there's such highly populated areas in the sports still popular in them.
00:13:36And those those two places fall.
00:13:39Who knows what's to happen to the rest of the country?
00:13:41But will we end up with just New York and Kentucky running?
00:13:46Well, let's certainly hope not.
00:13:48Well, Dale, thanks for taking some time out and good for you
00:13:51rolling up your sleeves and trying to help with this problem.
00:13:54And let's hope that we can come back and talk to you
00:13:58between now and less than three years and paint a brighter future
00:14:02for Gulfstream Park.
00:14:04But thanks for having me.
00:14:05And I hope we get it all worked out.
00:14:07Linda Stronger is a fan of racing.
00:14:09She's been done a lot of good things.
00:14:11Hopefully things come together and we all can keep racing the Gulfstream.
00:14:15Thanks so much, Dale. Thanks for joining us.
00:14:18All right, guys. Thank you.
00:14:20Dale Robins, our guest of the week was brought to you by Gainesway,
00:14:23a home of the grade one winning multimillionaire and track and stakes
00:14:26record setter Olympiad.
00:14:28Olympiad had both speed and stamina.
00:14:31He went from seven furlongs to a mile and a quarter.
00:14:34The mile and a quarter, of course, being the Jockey Club Gold Cup in Saratoga.
00:14:37Eight buyer speed figures of 100 or higher.
00:14:41Multiple one to eat 11 buyers when winning the Stephen Foster
00:14:44and also finishing second to flight line in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:14:48Olympiad's first yearlings at the sales ring this summer.
00:14:52And he stands at Gainesway for a fee of thirty five thousand dollars.
00:14:56Gainesway power, passion, performance.
00:15:14Olympiad gets the gold in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:15:22450,000, 350,000, 325,000.
00:15:33At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:15:41Hands that see.
00:15:43That sense.
00:15:46That speak.
00:15:48Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard,
00:15:52not for our sake,
00:15:55but for theirs,
00:15:57for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:16:01The Keeneland January sale concluded its three day run Wednesday in Lexington
00:16:05with figures largely in line with its four day 2024 edition.
00:16:09Through three days, 685 had grossed 33,444,900 dollars
00:16:16for an average of 48,825 and a median of 22,000.
00:16:21That average was up six percent in the meeting.
00:16:24It was up a whopping 47 percent from last year's four day sale.
00:16:29Now for the fastest horse of the week this week, brought to you by Independence
00:16:34Hall, one of those fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:16:37Independence Hall happens to be the only undefeated two year old
00:16:41standing at stud by Constitution.
00:16:44So he was precocious.
00:16:46And now he has his first two year olds on the track this year.
00:16:48Four of those two year olds will be running for a hot trainer,
00:16:52Ken McPeak, who bought them as yearlings in 2024.
00:16:57Some of Independence Hall's yearlings, three of them sold for three hundred
00:17:00fifty thousand, three hundred ten thousand, two hundred eighty five thousand.
00:17:06All of that for just a stud fee at Windstar of seven thousand
00:17:10five hundred dollars for Independence Hall.
00:17:13Now, the fastest source of the week this week ran in the Cal Cup Sprint
00:17:17on Saturday at Santa Anita, Big City Lights,
00:17:22who recorded a winning buyer speed figure of one oh four.
00:17:25Finally, out of the shadow of that famous
00:17:29California sprinter, the Chosen Vron, Big City Lights was the horse,
00:17:33if you recall, who was second to the Chosen Vron in four consecutive
00:17:38California breadstakes races in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three.
00:17:43Now, without the Chosen Vron in the California Cup Sprint,
00:17:46he was a one to ten favorite and recorded his second big margin
00:17:52victory in a row, winning Saturday by seven and three quarters lengths.
00:17:55The fastest source of the week, the Cal Brad Big City Lights.
00:18:04Well, guys, we just heard from Dale Romans, and as usual,
00:18:07he's had some very good thoughts on the situation at Gulfstream Park.
00:18:11I don't know if he added anything to make us a little bit more optimistic.
00:18:15At least I didn't.
00:18:16But he also made some good points about I thought the fact that that three
00:18:21he didn't think they'd get this done in three years with all the red tape
00:18:24they'd have to go through and the licensing and the permits and whatnot.
00:18:28But nonetheless, I mean, any way you look at this,
00:18:32I mean, whether it's three days, three years or 30 years,
00:18:35I don't see a situation where racing at Gulfstream
00:18:40Park is going to still be around, say, 10 years from now.
00:18:44Am I being, you know, too much of a worry word, Randy?
00:18:48Or am I being impractical?
00:18:51Look, there's a lot we don't know.
00:18:53I mean, to use the sports analogy, this is just the opening kickoff, right?
00:18:57There are probably going to be a lot of twists and turns.
00:18:59Politicians could get involved.
00:19:01You never know who else might step into the mix.
00:19:03We could spend the whole podcast talking about the various factors involved.
00:19:06But I want to focus primarily on the number one thing
00:19:11that we know and the number one thing that we don't know.
00:19:15Right. And just start there.
00:19:17Obviously, the number one thing we know
00:19:20is that the property at Gulfstream Park is mega valuable.
00:19:23We've talked about that.
00:19:25Estimates can be as much as two billion dollars for the whole
00:19:29250 acres and really the only scenario
00:19:33for racing there in the long term, longer than three years,
00:19:36is if the owner of the property is passionate enough about thoroughbred racing
00:19:42to prioritize racing at Gulfstream
00:19:45for the foreseeable future over cashing in on the much bigger profit
00:19:50in the short term.
00:19:52Now, if you imagine a graph, OK, and on the far right side of the graph
00:19:56is pure capitalism, right?
00:19:58Maximizing profit on the far left side of the graph
00:20:01is passion for thoroughbred racing.
00:20:05The number one thing we don't know
00:20:08is where in 2025 Belinda Stronach fits
00:20:13on that graph. Right.
00:20:16Is she now totally going to maximize profit?
00:20:20Is she going to try to keep Gulfstream Park
00:20:24as a part of that mix one way or the other?
00:20:26Has she now decided that it's not worthwhile
00:20:30to continue all the investments that she's been making in thoroughbred racing?
00:20:33We don't know.
00:20:35That's the main thing we don't know.
00:20:38Ironically, when you're talking about an owner
00:20:42who would be passionate enough about thoroughbred racing
00:20:45to ignore the short term profit and keep the track running as is,
00:20:50they had one of those.
00:20:52It was her father, Belinda Stronach's father, Frank Stronach, now 92 years old.
00:20:56And ironically, he endured a tremendous amount of criticism
00:21:02from within the industry
00:21:05while he was the owner of Gulfstream Park and Santa Anita.
00:21:08He lost control of the tracks, obviously, in a power struggle
00:21:12with Belinda Stronach.
00:21:13Right now, he's not involved with racing
00:21:16at First Racing, formerly the Stronach Group, anymore.
00:21:20But six years ago, here's what Frank Stronach was quoted as saying.
00:21:25OK, quote, the big rift, family rift started
00:21:30because my daughter wanted to sell the racetracks.
00:21:34And I said, I don't want to sell.
00:21:37I want to make sure the racetracks don't go down.
00:21:42Frank said he thought there was enough money
00:21:44to take care of his children and grandchildren many times over.
00:21:48He wanted to put Gulfstream, Santa Anita and his other tracks into a trust
00:21:53and have the trustees consist of people in the thoroughbred racing industry
00:21:59who would administer everything that had to do with the two tracks.
00:22:02Again, he said, quote, could we develop some hotels and condominiums
00:22:06and stores, of course, but not to the detriment of the racetracks.
00:22:10I hope I can convince Belinda of this.
00:22:15So now we're six years down the road.
00:22:17Belinda Stronach is still not sold to Gulfstream.
00:22:20She's not sold Santa Anita.
00:22:21She's put a lot of money into both tracks.
00:22:25The Pegasus, the California Crown.
00:22:26She withstood the outcry after the horse deaths at Santa Anita,
00:22:30which had to be a difficult thing to do.
00:22:32She said a lot of good things about horse racing.
00:22:36Where does she stand right now?
00:22:37The sport's not particularly healthy.
00:22:39The full crop is plummeting, as she decided.
00:22:41Now's the time to back away.
00:22:43We'll find out. We don't know.
00:22:45Yeah, and it's again, the timing of this
00:22:49and the way that this news broke.
00:22:52It's I would liken it to an analogy of, you know, for the past few months,
00:22:57everybody's been worried about Santa Anita.
00:22:58Is Santa Anita going to slide off the grid over on the West Coast?
00:23:02And then, of course, the fires earlier this month.
00:23:05And is racing imperiled at Santa Anita?
00:23:07What's going to happen to California as a whole?
00:23:10And it's almost the analogy that I would make is it's like hearing
00:23:13that somebody in the family is sick and, you know, it's Santa Anita.
00:23:16But then you hear Uncle Gulfstream Park is sick.
00:23:19And that's kind of coming out of the blue.
00:23:22You don't you didn't think that that would be
00:23:25news that would be developing here.
00:23:26So of the thing, you know, Randy hits on a good point.
00:23:29What do we know? There's a lot of unknowns.
00:23:31And what do we know?
00:23:32What we do know is that.
00:23:35Belinda Stronach has led with the request
00:23:40or almost the demand for decoupling that that was first and foremost.
00:23:44So if this is a poker game, that's that's the first card that they've played.
00:23:47That's that's what they've shown us.
00:23:49So if they if they wanted to just sell the real estate
00:23:54or if she just wanted to sell the real estate and get out,
00:23:56she could do that any day.
00:23:57She wouldn't need the horseman's cooperation or their consent
00:24:00or the state's consent to do that.
00:24:02I think Dale brought up a good point about,
00:24:06you know, somebody's got to pay the bills for the taxes and whatever.
00:24:08And that's that's the revenues from racing, however.
00:24:11I read an interesting piece by Ron Flatter over at Horse Racing Nation,
00:24:16and he made this analogy.
00:24:17So he said, if.
00:24:20If Gulfstream really just wanted to just sell the property
00:24:25instead of getting the decoupling, you know,
00:24:28I guess what I'm trying to say is he said the decoupling is what they led with first.
00:24:32If that's what they really want,
00:24:34if they end up just selling the property without getting what they ostensibly
00:24:38really want, the decoupling, his analogy was that's like
00:24:42rubbing out the hostage before getting your ransom money.
00:24:45You know, one of the interesting things about the casino
00:24:47that a couple of thoughts of, I'm not so sure how successful this casino would be.
00:24:53I mean, there are casinos in Florida like Starbucks.
00:24:56I mean, in every other street corner, the Hard Rock Hotel is one of the most famous
00:25:01casino. You see the ads all the time, even in Minnesota.
00:25:04They probably play these ads around here, right?
00:25:06For the Hard Rock, it's just up the street from there and their their own.
00:25:10Remember, they already have they already have a casino license.
00:25:15And it's it's really it's when they say I think they said that the six million
00:25:19dollars a year goes from that casino into purses.
00:25:22That's peanuts, absolute peanuts.
00:25:24When you consider how much that this money
00:25:29how much money comes out of casinos, some places like Philadelphia Park.
00:25:33And of course, now, what is the things that are going on in Kentucky and Arkansas
00:25:37where it's just getting these phenomenal purses?
00:25:40But let's try to move ahead.
00:25:43And this is, you know, kind of trying to whack a mole a little bit, too.
00:25:46But everybody's going in.
00:25:49Well, I want to make one more point about this.
00:25:51There to me, here's the hope.
00:25:56OK, here's the glimmer of hope that might be out there.
00:25:59Belinda, at any time over the past six years, after Frank said she wanted to sell,
00:26:04could have sold all the property done away with to developers, done away
00:26:08with Gulfstream Park, collected her one to two billion dollars and been out of this.
00:26:13But she didn't.
00:26:15And she has been talking for years now about the possibility of building a hotel
00:26:20adjacent to Gulfstream Park.
00:26:22This just didn't come out of the blue.
00:26:25And we know that the casino is under construction.
00:26:28We know that the casino is underperforming.
00:26:30The Hialeah Casino does twice as much business as the Gulfstream Park Casino.
00:26:36So when they said to the horsemen that they wanted to decouple because investors
00:26:45that they wanted to bring in to the new hotel casino
00:26:49didn't want to be involved with horse racing,
00:26:52but that they would guarantee the money from other parts.
00:26:54OK, I mean, she's been talking about a hotel for a long time.
00:26:59So the glimmer of hope would be that that's why they want decoupling.
00:27:04That's actually what they were actually telling.
00:27:05The truth is to get investors in to build this hotel casino, keep the racetrack going,
00:27:12maybe get better business in the casino, and at least for the immediate future,
00:27:16have Gulfstream Park as well as the property, because the property is not going to depreciate.
00:27:21That property is, you know, real estate typically does not depreciate,
00:27:26especially very valuable real estate.
00:27:28So there'd be no absolute pressing need to sell it right away.
00:27:32To me, that's the hope.
00:27:34Here's one of the many things, and you're right, Randy,
00:27:37when you said there's so many unanswered questions here,
00:27:39but why can't she have her cake and eat it too?
00:27:43The hotel casino would take up a very small,
00:27:49relatively small amount of land.
00:27:52I think they say they're going to build it near the Pegasus statue,
00:27:57which is kind of off to the side.
00:27:59Is there any scenario where she keeps racing,
00:28:03they give her the casino, and then she sells off, you know,
00:28:07part of the land or something like that?
00:28:10You know, why wouldn't that make sense?
00:28:11It doesn't make sense to me that it's all or nothing.
00:28:14If you don't give me this casino, I'm going to close down.
00:28:17If you get the casino,
00:28:18what are you going to do with the other seven-eighths of the property
00:28:22that are going to sit empty?
00:28:23This hotel casino is not, from a size standpoint,
00:28:28is, you know, and I don't know the first thing about, you know,
00:28:31acreage and everything down there,
00:28:33but it's going to leave plenty of room still for a racetrack.
00:28:37And as you and TD know, I mean, that's already been done on that site.
00:28:43The original old Gulfstream Park had this big, expansive,
00:28:47fabulous back lawn with a back paddock
00:28:49that was really the signature of old Gulfstream Park.
00:28:53Now it's gone because Frank Stronach shrunk the grandstand
00:28:57so that he could create Gulfstream Park Village.
00:29:00All of those shops that you see now behind Gulfstream Park,
00:29:03where that big back lawn used to be located.
00:29:06So they've already kind of done that before,
00:29:08but maybe they can do more of it.
00:29:10All right.
00:29:11Is there any solutions beyond the future of racing at Gulfstream?
00:29:15Some people are talking about maybe moving it to Hialeah.
00:29:18I've been talking about, writing about moving it to Prairie Meadows.
00:29:22Again, this isn't going to happen overnight.
00:29:24That would be a long commute.
00:29:28I could just see Todd Pletcher with a string at Prairie Meadows
00:29:31in March in Iowa.
00:29:34Okay, but is, you know,
00:29:37does the idea of moving racing to Hialeah, to Palm Meadows,
00:29:43some people have said Ocala,
00:29:44some people have said even Adina Springs has a pretty nice,
00:29:47that's Stronach's Farm.
00:29:50Is that an avenue people should be pursuing?
00:29:53I think very much it is.
00:29:55You know, again, every time you bring this up,
00:29:57you bring up more questions than answers.
00:30:01But yeah, I went back and read a story written 20 years ago
00:30:05by Mike Welsh in the Daily Racing Forum,
00:30:08where they were talking all about what Frank's plan was
00:30:12to close down Gulfstream because of the value of the property
00:30:16and then to run racing at Palm Meadows.
00:30:19The reason he couldn't do it is because he didn't understand
00:30:22the laws down there,
00:30:24that you're only allowed one parimutuel license per county
00:30:27and the dog track, the Palm Meads Kennel Club,
00:30:30owned by the Rooney family, had that license.
00:30:33He was not, he was not, would not have been allowed to
00:30:38and maybe they, even though they don't race dogs there,
00:30:40they still may have the only license
00:30:42because I understand, you know, they still have a card room
00:30:44and simulcasting.
00:30:46So, you know, it's, but I see that as one possibility.
00:30:51How about you guys?
00:30:52You know, the location is one part of the debate
00:30:55or the big question,
00:30:57but the other part is who owns, runs and handles
00:31:01the day-to-day operations.
00:31:02I mean, let's, let's look at a wider timeframe
00:31:06and at a wider cross-section of the country
00:31:09and just some different ideas over the past five years.
00:31:11I live up near Boston in Massachusetts
00:31:13where Suffolk Downs closed for good in 2019.
00:31:18By state law here, there's something called
00:31:20the Racehorse Development Fund,
00:31:21where the casinos have to put in a portion
00:31:24of their initial upfront licensing fees
00:31:27and contribute their revenues.
00:31:28Right now, there's $20 million sitting in that fund.
00:31:31It can go to purses.
00:31:32And there have been, I've almost lost count.
00:31:34There have been at least 10 proposed racetracks
00:31:37in Massachusetts over the past six years,
00:31:39a number of them ideas floated by the local horseman's group.
00:31:43Not one of them has gained traction.
00:31:44They've all been shot down by local resistance.
00:31:46Some of them even before formal proposals have been made.
00:31:50So that's one example where who's going to run it
00:31:54and the money is there and the locations are there
00:31:56and nobody can come up with an answer.
00:31:58Another one is out in Chicago.
00:31:59Arlington closed in 2021.
00:32:02Two years prior to that,
00:32:05the other racetracks in the state,
00:32:07Fairmount and Hawthorne and Arlington too,
00:32:10before it closed, were given the opportunity
00:32:12to have racino licenses.
00:32:13That was a big dangle, a big carrot to dangle
00:32:15in front of those entities.
00:32:17And we're six years down the road
00:32:19and Hawthorne can't get its act together.
00:32:21They can't get the financing together.
00:32:23They have a half-finished project
00:32:25sitting there on their property.
00:32:27So that's not working.
00:32:29In Northern California, we've just seen
00:32:31with the closure of Golden Gate Fields,
00:32:33another track shut down by the Stronach group.
00:32:37The Horsemen tried to run a meet at Pleasanton.
00:32:40It failed and they're not running a second meet.
00:32:42They were originally going to continue that
00:32:45and run from January into the spring.
00:32:47They're not doing it.
00:32:48It just failed abjectly.
00:32:50And now Santa Anita is the only game in town
00:32:52in California at this time of the year.
00:32:55In Maryland, where another Stronach track
00:32:57is on the way out,
00:32:58they're trying to do a partnership
00:33:01between the state and Horsemen.
00:33:04And that's just getting off the ground.
00:33:06We don't know if that will work.
00:33:07So what are the answers to get these things to work?
00:33:09It's not just coming up with a piece of property
00:33:12where you can build an oval and run the races.
00:33:15To me, the two logical solutions going forward,
00:33:18the obvious solutions are Palm Meadows and Hialeah.
00:33:23Palm Meadows has a one-mile racetrack, dirt racetrack.
00:33:27They have a turf course inside of it.
00:33:29They have plenty of room for a nice grandstand.
00:33:32Actually, a pretty big grandstand.
00:33:34They've got, what, 1,200 stalls right there.
00:33:371,700, Randy.
00:33:381,700 stalls.
00:33:401,700 stalls there, yes.
00:33:41What they don't have is huge in the equation.
00:33:46A casino.
00:33:49They do not have a casino.
00:33:51And nowadays, I don't think you're going to be
00:33:53sinking money into a new racing facility
00:33:56in 2025, 2028, if you don't have a casino.
00:34:00And chances are, they have no hope of getting a casino
00:34:04because when Palm Meadows first came into existence,
00:34:08it opened in November of 2002.
00:34:12Really, the only reason why the Palm Beach County
00:34:14commissioners gave permission over local objections
00:34:19for the training center at Palm Beach Downs
00:34:21is because it sits on what's called an agricultural reserve.
00:34:25And they thought that horses, rural, et cetera,
00:34:29sort of fit into the pattern of having an agricultural reserve.
00:34:34And even so, they had a lot of local complaints
00:34:38about putting just a training center in there.
00:34:41Even if they could get state permission, local permission
00:34:45to put a casino there, can you imagine the outcry,
00:34:48the public outcry of those people?
00:34:51Putting a casino now, as well as a racetrack in the spot
00:34:54where they didn't even want a training center.
00:34:56So to me, Hialeah, the more I think about it,
00:34:59is the most logical option.
00:35:01The casino is already doing great guns,
00:35:03so you know the people down there want to bet.
00:35:06You have a metropolitan area right there.
00:35:08You have a gorgeous racetrack.
00:35:10From what I understand, the barn area,
00:35:13which was almost destroyed by a hurricane,
00:35:15has been redeveloped.
00:35:17So I don't know if you could really build barns
00:35:20to any great extent, maybe a receiving barn or two,
00:35:24and you could just do the European model
00:35:26and have horses stable at Palm Meadows,
00:35:29hopefully, if they could work that out,
00:35:30and have them vanned in to Hialeah on a daily basis.
00:35:37I don't know.
00:35:38I tried to reach out to John Brunetti Jr. today,
00:35:40actually, as we tape this,
00:35:42but I haven't heard back from him yet
00:35:44to ask if there is any desire on his part
00:35:47for Hialeah to step into the void,
00:35:49assuming Gulfstream Park goes away.
00:35:50But I mean, that to me,
00:35:53given the casino limitations
00:35:56that might be evident at Palm Beach Downs
00:35:57or at the Palm Meadows,
00:35:59would be the logical solution.
00:36:02Randy, I agree with you to a point,
00:36:03but let's go back.
00:36:05Is there another Frank Stronach-like person out there
00:36:10that maybe would say
00:36:11this is not the very best business investment
00:36:14I've ever made,
00:36:16but I'm going to do this for the good of horse racing
00:36:20and I don't want to put the weight of the world
00:36:22on the man's shoulders,
00:36:23but the first guy that comes to mind is Mike Rapali.
00:36:26And do you mean by Gulfstream Park,
00:36:28by the land?
00:36:28No, no, by Palm Meadows.
00:36:31But you don't have a casino.
00:36:33I don't think they know.
00:36:35I'm not on the same page with you.
00:36:37I think it can work without a casino.
00:36:40Okay, I don't.
00:36:41Okay.
00:36:41So we'll have to disagree there.
00:36:44I don't think any major...
00:36:47I mean, look at Santa Anita.
00:36:48I don't think any major racetrack right now
00:36:51can be successful in attracting top-level horses
00:36:55without gaming revenue.
00:36:57Right.
00:36:57Unfortunately, I wish I didn't have to say that,
00:37:00but I think that's where we're at right now
00:37:01in thoroughbred racing.
00:37:02What do you think, TD?
00:37:04Yeah, I can't recall the last time a track was built
00:37:07that wasn't tied into some sort of gaming revenues.
00:37:09Certainly not in this century, right?
00:37:12And you probably never see it again.
00:37:14I mean, for instance,
00:37:15they put legalized racing in Georgia.
00:37:17Nobody's knocking on the door
00:37:19to open up a racetrack in Atlanta,
00:37:21one of the biggest markets in the country,
00:37:23because nobody has legalized casinos or slots
00:37:29or whatever in Georgia.
00:37:31All right.
00:37:31So we've covered pretty much everything there.
00:37:33Hopefully, there will be some good news
00:37:35coming out of this sooner rather than later.
00:37:38But just the pit in my stomach,
00:37:41and I'm sure the pit in the stomach
00:37:42of so many people in horse racing
00:37:44about what this would all mean
00:37:45if Gulfstream would close down in South Florida,
00:37:48can't find a solution to continue to have horse racing.
00:37:51It would be not just bad for South Florida racing.
00:37:54It would be terrible for the entire sport,
00:37:56no doubt about it.
00:37:58Last Saturday at the Fairgrounds,
00:37:59the first 20-point prep for the 2025 Kentucky Derby.
00:38:03It's the LeCompte Stakes,
00:38:05and the favorites ran one-two.
00:38:07The nine-to-five favorite, Disco Time,
00:38:09from the Brad Cox Barn,
00:38:10ran down the five-to-two second choice,
00:38:13built the Gunrunner winner to win the LeCompte narrowly.
00:38:17The final time was slow,
00:38:18but the points still just the same.
00:38:21And now the top three currently
00:38:23in the point standings for the Derby.
00:38:25Of course, it's very early.
00:38:26Citizen Bull with 40 points,
00:38:28the winner of the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:38:30Coal Battle, the Smarty Jones winner, 20.
00:38:32Disco Fever also 20.
00:38:34All three bred in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
00:38:38We'll be right back after this.
00:38:41With some of the fullest fields in the country
00:38:44and quality racing year-round,
00:38:46there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
00:38:49of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:38:53Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,
00:38:56as is average purse per race,
00:38:58outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:39:02Kentucky breds.
00:39:03Breed them.
00:39:04Raise them.
00:39:05Race them.
00:39:07We all win.
00:39:11Last weekend at Santa Anita,
00:39:12Cavalieri ran her record to a perfect three for three
00:39:16by winning the grade three La Canyada stakes
00:39:19on this week's First Things First from Santa Anita.
00:39:22Michelle Yu spoke to the trainer of Cavalieri,
00:39:25Mr. Bob Baffert.
00:39:32Frank, I'm joined right now by trainer Bob Baffert,
00:39:34whose Cavalieri goes a perfect three for three here, Bob.
00:39:37And I feel like we all anticipated her
00:39:39being able to stretch out that extra 60th of a mile
00:39:42with no doubt.
00:39:43But what were your thoughts going into the race?
00:39:45I mean, coming into it, the way she'd been training
00:39:47and she's maturing, she's a big, beautiful stout mare.
00:39:51And we knew, you know, we're going to hopefully,
00:39:53you know, keep them healthy.
00:39:55We should have a lot of fun with her this year.
00:39:57And it was a big step up for her, you know,
00:40:01run against some really nice fillies.
00:40:03And she handled it well, took a lot of pressure
00:40:05and kept going.
00:40:06I think she's going to improve off of this.
00:40:08You know, big, strong mare that she is.
00:40:10So we're pretty, very happy about it.
00:40:13We were looking for an heir apparent for Adair Manor
00:40:16for the last couple of years for you.
00:40:17Maybe this filly can fill in her hoof steps.
00:40:21Yeah, I mean, Adair Manor, she was something else.
00:40:23But it's nice to have these big mares.
00:40:26And the clientele, Peter Flohr and the Speedway Racing,
00:40:31they've been great, you know, sending me these good horses.
00:40:34So I'm very happy about it.
00:40:36And Zoe, of course.
00:40:38And Zoe, she helps pick them out.
00:40:40But we've got a great team, you know.
00:40:43All right, congratulations here with this win.
00:40:50This weekend at Santa Anita, the California Wine Festival
00:40:55that takes place from 12 to 4 p.m.
00:40:57on the Santa Anita Grandstand Apron.
00:41:00Wine starter packs with eight two-ounce tastings
00:41:03start at $37, included in that $37 with your wine,
00:41:08a $5 betting voucher, admission, parking, and a tip sheet.
00:41:14Well, last Saturday at 9.30 in the morning,
00:41:17what an odd time to put out a press release.
00:41:19But at that point, Heise put out a press release
00:41:23saying, welcome back, Paco Lopez.
00:41:25He, of course, is the jockey who was caught on camera
00:41:29hitting a horse after the race was over
00:41:32in a really violent manner.
00:41:34This happened at parks, striking it across the neck,
00:41:37maybe hitting it in the head as well.
00:41:40He lawyered up.
00:41:41He did all the smart things, said how much he was sorry.
00:41:44I'm going to go get therapy.
00:41:46I'm going to be a changed man.
00:41:47And lo and behold, they're bringing him back.
00:41:49He's coming back.
00:41:50What better time to bring him back than Pegasus Day?
00:41:53His suspension amounts to 50 days.
00:41:57That's a slap on the wrist to me.
00:41:58I'm not saying, you know, kick him out of the sport for a year.
00:42:01But I thought he deserved at least six months, TD.
00:42:04Yeah, and I think he's going for the soft return.
00:42:07He's not going to be at Pegasus Day.
00:42:09He's riding at Laurel that afternoon.
00:42:10He has three months.
00:42:13But, you know, it's the question of,
00:42:15what do people expect in this day and age?
00:42:18I mean, that's basically the game plan
00:42:20for any professional athlete who runs afoul of the law
00:42:23or afoul of the rules.
00:42:25They say they're sorry.
00:42:26They go get some counseling.
00:42:27They make some donations.
00:42:29And the regulator, at some point,
00:42:32almost has to let them back in.
00:42:34I mean, Paco is a – he can be a controversial figure
00:42:40for his aggression out there on the racetrack
00:42:42and some of his accusations of rough riding,
00:42:46some of the fistfights that he's gotten into.
00:42:50But yet, what is the alternative?
00:42:52People saying ban him for life, ban him for a year,
00:42:54ban him for a year or two.
00:42:55We do live in a country where the judicial system
00:42:58doesn't look too kindly on taking away people's livelihoods
00:43:01if they're licensed by somebody.
00:43:03So it would have eventually ended up him going to court
00:43:06to plead his case, and we certainly have enough litigation
00:43:09going on in this sport.
00:43:10So I really don't – you know, as to what he deserved
00:43:13and what did people expect, I think you have to balance it
00:43:16against what happens in these types of situations
00:43:19in this day and age.
00:43:21Bill's making me look like a bleeding heart here.
00:43:26See you guys later.
00:43:29Look, actually, my opinion on this is this.
00:43:32Every day we see riders – not every day, but often enough –
00:43:36we see riders get disqualified for an incident
00:43:42in which they sometimes do, but usually avoid,
00:43:46but narrowly avoid causing a spill that could have resulted
00:43:50in the loss of a horse's life or severe injury for a rider.
00:43:53Paco was suspended for 30 days at one point.
00:43:56I think it was six years ago for causing a spill
00:43:59that injured a couple of jockeys.
00:44:03This was a situation in which – no, what he did is inexcusable.
00:44:08What he did is inexcusable, especially in today's day and age.
00:44:12But if you're a jockey and you cut off another jockey
00:44:14and you almost cause a disastrous spill,
00:44:16you get a five-day suspension.
00:44:19You might get a two-week suspension if it was really grievous
00:44:22or if Paco actually did cause a spill, he gets 30 days.
00:44:26This situation he was given, it's going to be, as you said,
00:44:29a 50-day suspension.
00:44:33Look, he's a hothead. We know he's a hothead.
00:44:36The horse almost hurt him.
00:44:39Not that that's a valid excuse for hitting the horse,
00:44:42but that's why he was so upset.
00:44:45He said the right things.
00:44:47I'll be a bleeding heart and say give him a chance,
00:44:50but if it happens again, give him a year.
00:44:52Give him two years.
00:44:54All right.
00:44:55I'm going to hold you to that, Randy.
00:44:57Now, I appreciate you being able to give out these strong opinions
00:45:02and to talk about these things because I got to think you're very upset.
00:45:06This was a bad week for you, my friend.
00:45:08Senor Buscador has been retired.
00:45:10Senor.
00:45:11Your horse.
00:45:12His name is Mr. Prospector.
00:45:14They're doing the right thing by him.
00:45:17Joey Peacock, the owner, trainer Todd Fincher.
00:45:20They had already said that they probably weren't going to send him back
00:45:25to Saudi Arabia for another shot at the $20 million
00:45:29because last year when they took him,
00:45:31he didn't bounce back very quickly from that.
00:45:34His form really never recovered from that trip overseas.
00:45:37That made him a whole lot of money.
00:45:39So they were going to run him in the Pegasus one more time,
00:45:43and if he happened just to come out of the Pegasus fantastically,
00:45:46then they might think about shipping him over there,
00:45:49but apparently it'll work out that he had his final prep for the Pegasus.
00:45:54They weren't pleased with it, and so they're doing the right thing.
00:45:57My old senior.
00:45:59You're going to need to come up with some new favorite horses.
00:46:02Two fills isn't around anymore either.
00:46:04What are you going to do?
00:46:05I know.
00:46:06I know.
00:46:07There's a couple more in the pipeline from that damn Rose's Desert.
00:46:11There's a two-year-old colt.
00:46:13He's just been named The Hell We Did.
00:46:16He's signed by Atlantic.
00:46:18I like that name.
00:46:19There's also a three-year-old filly out of a half-sister to Senior Buscador.
00:46:26She's already raced once.
00:46:27Her name was Rose.
00:46:28She was in the back of the pack in October in her lone start at Santa Anita,
00:46:32and she's now in training at Sunland Park with trainer Todd Fincher.
00:46:36And The Hell We Did got by the Jockey Club.
00:46:38I love that.
00:46:39Yeah.
00:46:41So, TD, you're TDN top 12.
00:46:44Are you doing it?
00:46:45Is it 10 or 12 at this point?
00:46:47It's a dozen.
00:46:49It's a dozen.
00:46:50Okay.
00:46:51Well, you're going to have a busy weekend following the three-year-old races at
00:46:54Oakland Park and the Southwest Stakes.
00:46:56Tell us what's going on there and particularly how it applies to your ratings
00:47:00for the top three-year-olds.
00:47:01Yeah, so we've got one-sixth of the top 12 in there.
00:47:05We've got the horse who I've got ranked at number two, Sandman,
00:47:09a nice gray horse from trainer Mark Cassie's barn.
00:47:12He started five times.
00:47:14I've got him ranked pretty high.
00:47:15I was not on the podcast a couple of weeks ago when, Bill,
00:47:19you said you weren't aware of who this horse was.
00:47:21I know.
00:47:22And I heard the entertainment that ensued from that.
00:47:25But, yeah, I do try and like to make some outward reaches there from far
00:47:29outside the radar.
00:47:31And Sandman impressed me.
00:47:32He was the runner-up in the Street Sense Stakes back in the fall at
00:47:37Churchill Downs.
00:47:39And then he followed that up with a race at Oakland Park, a mile race.
00:47:44It was an allowance race.
00:47:45Sat off the pace on the far turn.
00:47:47He looked like he might be blocked if he went on the inside and came up the
00:47:51rail.
00:47:52If he went to the outside,
00:47:53he was going to give up too much ground on one of those short stretch
00:47:55configurations where they end at the 16th pole.
00:47:58But he did dive through, kicked on late.
00:48:00I like it.
00:48:01I was surprised to see he's 5-1 in the morning line for this Saturday's
00:48:05Southwest.
00:48:06But that's because of the presence of a Bob Baffert shipper,
00:48:09gaming, who I believe was favored in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile or one of
00:48:13the favorites.
00:48:14And then he came back and he was a disappointing third at odds on in the
00:48:17Low Sal Futurity.
00:48:19And also Patch Adams, who I also have on the top 12.
00:48:23He's a TDN Rising Star, an electrifying double-digit win going seven furlongs
00:48:29at Churchill back in November.
00:48:31And this will be his first time around two turns.
00:48:34When Patch Adams won that maiden race at Churchill, Bill,
00:48:38he looked like a beast.
00:48:40Boy, did he look good.
00:48:42He's by into mischief from the same female families to buy a World Cup
00:48:46winner well-armed.
00:48:48And here's the interesting thing to me, okay?
00:48:51Gaming is the two-to-one favorite.
00:48:52We know Bob Baffert's success at Oaklawn Park.
00:48:54He's got like a 50-something percent record when he ships horses into
00:48:58Oaklawn for stakes races.
00:48:59Flavian Pratt rode this horse in the Del Mar Futurity and won.
00:49:04When they got to the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, Flavian took off of gaming
00:49:07to ride Chancellor McPatrick in the Breeders' Cup.
00:49:10Gaming ran second.
00:49:12Flavian got back on gaming in the Low Sal Futurity and finishes third.
00:49:17Who's Flavian riding in the Southwest?
00:49:19Patch Adams.
00:49:21You know he could have ridden gaming, the two-to-one favorite.
00:49:24Instead, he's riding the five-to-two second choice.
00:49:27And Flavian Pratt was not on him in that maiden win at Churchill Downs.
00:49:32It was Florent Giroux.
00:49:34Flojo rode him that day.
00:49:36But Flavian has picked up the mount.
00:49:38And he got a 98 buyer speed figure for that Churchill win.
00:49:42And I thought he looked even more impressive than a 98 buyer.
00:49:46So, to me, I think he is definitely the horse to beat.
00:49:49And I like TD's exacted there of Patch Adams and Sandman, although he might
00:49:54prefer it the other way.
00:49:56The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:49:59And this week's XBTV Work of the Week is, of course, another prep
00:50:03for the Pegasus World Cup Saturday Golf Stream.
00:50:05This one's a little tough to see in the dark at Santa Anita,
00:50:08but that's Imagination on the outside and Citizen Bull on the inside,
00:50:12working six for wrongs in 112 and 112.40.
00:50:17Saturday at Santa Anita for trainer Bob Baffert.
00:50:20We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
00:50:24Be a smarter better with XBTV.
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00:50:54PA Bred.
00:50:56PA Bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:51:00It's excitement at every step.
00:51:03Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:51:07On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year
00:51:12in breeders' awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:51:15Plus, PA Bred shined on the world's biggest stage.
00:51:18Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:51:21Learn more at pabred.com.
00:51:24TD and Riders Room also brought to you by our friends
00:51:27at the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
00:51:31Pennsylvania Bred, simply joking, scored her second straight stakes win
00:51:35on Saturday at the fairgrounds in the Fasig-Tipton Silver Bullet Day Stakes,
00:51:39earning 20 points on the road to the Kentucky Oaks.
00:51:42Next start penciled in is the Rachel Alexandra at the fairgrounds.
00:51:45And we told you earlier about Disco Time's win and the LeCompte on the same card.
00:51:51Now, Disco Time is not a Pennsylvania Bred, but his dam was.
00:51:56And as a matter of fact, the dams of Simply Joking and Disco Time,
00:51:59both Pennsylvania Bred champions.
00:52:02The dam of Simply Joking and Ply won seven PA Bred stakes and $775,000.
00:52:08The dam of Disco Time, Disco Chick, won four stakes and $735,000.
00:52:14Two of the Pennsylvania Breds won an open company on Sunday,
00:52:17winning on weekends, won at Aqueduct.
00:52:19Carrington won at Gulfstream.
00:52:21Carrington, perhaps the best named horse on that card at Gulfstream Park.
00:52:25Carrington was one of the important battles in the Battle of Normandy,
00:52:29made famous, made popular by the Band of Brothers TV show.
00:52:33And Carrington is the son of Omaha Beach.
00:52:37To learn more about the PA Bred program, go to pabred.com or call 610-444-1050.
00:52:44Well, lots of racing.
00:52:46We talked about some of the big races at Oakland Park this weekend.
00:52:49Great weekend of racing.
00:52:50Of course, it's highlighted by the Pegasus World Cup card.
00:52:53Randy Moss will be down at beautiful Gulfstream Park to bring the broadcast
00:52:58to eyes and ears of people all over America.
00:53:01We'll look forward to seeing Randy in a group there.
00:53:044.30 Eastern Time, NBC and Peacock.
00:53:07There you go.
00:53:08There you go.
00:53:09This is a card, one of those great cards with tons of stakes races.
00:53:13I thought it'd be easier to just go over the three Pegasus races,
00:53:17which starts with race 10, which is the Pegasus World Cup, Philly and Mayer.
00:53:22Turf Invitational.
00:53:23My pick in there is the pleasure horse, Rekia, from the one post.
00:53:27The post positions are very important in this race.
00:53:32I love the fact that he drew the one.
00:53:34Excuse me, she drew the one.
00:53:36She might be able to go to the lead.
00:53:37If she doesn't, she's going to be up close early.
00:53:39Frankie Dettori will be able to save ground.
00:53:42And she looked good in the Golda Kova winning her first start
00:53:45since coming over from Great Britain
00:53:47and is now in the Todd Pletcher Barn for Shadwell Stable.
00:53:50So I have a vote for Rekia in the Pegasus World Cup Philly and Mayer turf.
00:53:56Well, Rekia may be able to get around the racetrack carrying her assigned pound,
00:54:00and she might not be able to get around and win carrying both you
00:54:03and me on her back because that's who I selected.
00:54:06I did like her coming out of that race.
00:54:09She had wired the field from the nine hole on one of those stakes races
00:54:13on the Breeders' Cup undercard.
00:54:15Looking elsewhere, maybe Minushka from trainer Brendan Walsh's barn.
00:54:21She had some trip trouble in her U.S. debut.
00:54:24She had shipped over from France at Keeneland in an allowance race,
00:54:28and she won as the favorite on that afternoon.
00:54:32Then she had a better-than-it-looks fourth place try in her second U.S. start.
00:54:36She was fourth but only beaten about a length and a half
00:54:39and a willing wide drive in the Mrs. Revere at Churchill.
00:54:42So I would toss her in there as well.
00:54:45Boy, you think Rekia's carrying a lot of weight with two of you.
00:54:47How about three of us?
00:54:49Whoa.
00:54:50You know, no, look, I think Sacred Wish is a better horse than Rekia.
00:54:54Last time Rekia had the benefit of a very, very easy uncontested pace.
00:55:00Frankie DeTore just seized control from an outside post position
00:55:05and slowed the pace down, finished very strongly.
00:55:08If you go two races back in the Golda Kova at Del Mar,
00:55:11that same race that Rekia won, Sacred Wish was third two races ago for Sacred Wish.
00:55:16If you go back and watch that, she had trouble.
00:55:19She lacked a lot of room around the second turn.
00:55:22I came away from that race thinking Sacred Wish was the best horse.
00:55:26But now she's got post 10 out of 12.
00:55:28And Bill, you pointed out, mile and a 16th on the turf at Gulfstream,
00:55:32a very short run to the first turn.
00:55:35And Rekia draws the rail, even though I don't think she'll,
00:55:39she may not make the early lead in here again.
00:55:43She doesn't have to be in the lead as she showed in some of her races in Europe.
00:55:46That was her very first race in the United States.
00:55:48She was transferred from trainer Owen Burroughs to Todd Pletcher.
00:55:51This is the first time Pletcher will saddle her.
00:55:53But because of post position, I'm going to take Rekia and DeTore.
00:55:57Over Sacred Wish.
00:55:59Race 12 is the Pegasus World Cup Turf Invitational.
00:56:03The obvious favorite will be Nation's Pride for Charlie Appleby and William Buick.
00:56:06Horse is coming off a dismal performance in Bahrain last time out.
00:56:10But I imagine there must have been something going on where you could draw a line through it.
00:56:15I'm going to try to beat Nation's Pride, though.
00:56:17As good as Appleby is and as good as this horse is, he's already proven what he is in the U.S.
00:56:23He's run here so many times.
00:56:24He did win the Arlington Million, but he's just an OK.
00:56:28He's better than OK.
00:56:29He's a good grade one horse, but he's not one of those Charlie Appleby like jet planes
00:56:35that you know are just going to whistle around the racetrack and nobody will have a chance.
00:56:39I'm going to give our friends West Point Thoroughbreds integration.
00:56:43That's going to be my pick in here.
00:56:44Now, they did run against each other against Nation's Pride.
00:56:47The Arlington Million, Nation's Pride won that day.
00:56:50But distance wise, I think integration is a much better fit at a mile and an eighth
00:56:56where he is three for five.
00:56:58That's the distance of Saturday's race at Gulfstream.
00:57:01The Nation's Pride is at a mile and an eighth.
00:57:04He's been usually running in much longer races, has run at a mile and an eighth only once in his career
00:57:09and finished third in that.
00:57:11So, and of course, I think you'll get, even though it's Shug and Frankie DeTore,
00:57:17I think they're going to be betting Charlie Appleby and William T. Buick.
00:57:21So, I'm hoping for a little bit of a mild upset from the West Point gang.
00:57:25I have slight interest in the other Shug horse, Battle of Normandy.
00:57:30We don't usually think of Shug as a turf trainer, but he's certainly very adept on the grass.
00:57:35But this one is really blossoming and won four straight races between a mile and a sixteenth
00:57:41and all the way up to a mile and three eighths.
00:57:44He's won at the allowance level, only won a grade three stakes.
00:57:48So, that's maybe going to be counted against him in the betting,
00:57:52but it will give you some points as far as if you want to back him in this race,
00:57:56he's going to be pretty decent value.
00:57:59And he runs those consistent mid-90s buyer numbers.
00:58:03Nobody's really jumping off the page at me buyer-wise here, Randy.
00:58:07What number would it take to win the race?
00:58:10It'll take about a 102, 103 to win it, in my opinion.
00:58:14Nations Pride's the only horse that's run that fast.
00:58:17When you look at the Arlington Million, where he ran against Integration,
00:58:21going around the second turn, they were right together.
00:58:23Integration was on the inside of Nations Pride.
00:58:27Integration was being ridden a little bit at that point by Kendrick Carmouche
00:58:32to try to keep up with Nations Pride.
00:58:34And as soon as William Buick relaxed his hold on Nations Pride, boom,
00:58:40he left Integration behind by like two, two and a half lengths.
00:58:44And they were trying to get Integration to keep up with him.
00:58:47He just didn't have that turn of foot.
00:58:49Now, he kept plugging away.
00:58:50Integration never gave up and kept trying, kept trying, kept trying
00:58:54all the way down to the wire, but really couldn't close the gap
00:58:58in any meaningful way.
00:58:59I think the best hope Integration has to turn the tables is that Nations Pride
00:59:04would be off form after that disastrous run last time in Bahrain.
00:59:08But he's already shown he doesn't like Bahrain.
00:59:10He ran once before in the same race and didn't run very well.
00:59:13So, I'm more inclined to be able to throw that race out because of that.
00:59:18A horse I'm kind of interested in, depending on the price,
00:59:21is the West Coast shipper Mi Hermano Ramon.
00:59:25He was narrowly beaten by Johans in his last start,
00:59:28and we know how good Johans is.
00:59:31And Johans just nipped him at the wire.
00:59:34So, numbers-wise, I think Mi Hermano Ramon fits pretty well in there.
00:59:39And if he goes off at 6.7 to 1, if they kind of overlook him
00:59:42at Gulfstream Park, I think he'd be worth a second look.
00:59:46The big one, Race 13, the Pegasus World Cup Invitational,
00:59:49worth $3 million, Grade 1, of course, and there is a field of 12 in here.
00:59:56After Locke won the Cigar Mile, I said right then,
00:59:59well, he'll be my pick in the Pegasus because, I mean,
01:00:02this is a horse that showed a lot of promise early on in his career.
01:00:05Kind of went in the wrong direction now.
01:00:07It looks like Todd Pletcher really has him back to where he was back
01:00:11as a 2-year-old and was a horse that we were considering for the major races.
01:00:17He went off at 2 to 1 in Beatles Cup Juvenile.
01:00:19But I will not pick anybody from Post 11 in this race.
01:00:24I often think they should make this race a mile on 3.16
01:00:27to make it just a little bit more fair.
01:00:29I mean, you've got to be really the best horse to be able to win
01:00:33from that post out there, and I can't do it.
01:00:35So I'm not going to take him.
01:00:36So I'm going to move to the inside with Saudi Crown,
01:00:39Brad Cox and Florent Giroux.
01:00:41It's another horse that's kind of been in and out.
01:00:43My goodness, he lost by 58 lengths in the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile.
01:00:47I wonder what the heck went on that day.
01:00:49Well, whatever it was, Brad Cox figured it out,
01:00:52and he brought him back in a small stake, the Tenacious Stakes,
01:00:55at the fairgrounds to win there by two lengths.
01:00:59Now, to me, this is a prep for a prep for a prep for him
01:01:04because he just won a prep for the Pegasus World Cup.
01:01:08Pegasus World Cup is a prep for the Saudi Cup.
01:01:10He's owned by Saudi interest, and I would be almost positive
01:01:13that they're looking to take him to Saudi Arabia after this race.
01:01:16So Saudi Crown for me.
01:01:18You know, I'm going to lead off my analysis here by saying that
01:01:22by talking about two horses who aren't in the race,
01:01:24and as an East Coast guy, I'm constantly having to check my own mind
01:01:29to see do I have a bias against West Coast horses.
01:01:31And I have to say, in this case, I was waiting over the past couple of months
01:01:35until they were sidelined with some injuries.
01:01:37I was waiting for the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile winner,
01:01:40Full Serrano, to stretch out into this race.
01:01:43He's not participating.
01:01:45And also Subsanador, who I was really intrigued with last year
01:01:48from Richard Mandello's barn.
01:01:50He was aiming for this race initially, but he never even made it
01:01:53into the Breeders' Cup.
01:01:55I agree with you on Locked.
01:01:57I'm a little anti-Locked here.
01:01:59I thought he was an outside stalker, got second run into kind of a little bit
01:02:03of a softened up pace in the Cigar Mile.
01:02:06But the horse that you would think would be the headline horse
01:02:09we haven't talked about yet, what's up with Mystic Dannon here,
01:02:13the Derby winner, hasn't won a race since the Derby.
01:02:16He was sixth and last in the Malibu on opening day at Santa Anita.
01:02:22That was a difficult ship for him.
01:02:24That's not his best distance.
01:02:26Trainer Kenny McPeak didn't have an obvious excuse,
01:02:28or he didn't present one.
01:02:29He just said, we're going to throw that one out and try again here.
01:02:32But kind of surprised that the Derby winner isn't the horse that bubbles
01:02:35out of our mouths right away first off here.
01:02:38Good point.
01:02:40Look, I can't like Mystic Dannon off his race in the Malibu.
01:02:44I just can't.
01:02:45He just didn't show anything.
01:02:48So to me, that's a no-go.
01:02:51I can't go for Locked from the number 11 post position.
01:02:55Also, in the eight runnings of the Pegasus World Cup,
01:03:00the farthest that any winner has been behind at any point in the race
01:03:06is two lengths.
01:03:08And only three horses were as far as two lengths behind,
01:03:11only three of the eight winners.
01:03:13And Locked will almost certainly be farther behind than two lengths,
01:03:15because from that outside post position,
01:03:17you'd have to think they're going to have to go back and over instead of
01:03:20trying to go forward and over, unless they get lucky
01:03:24and something materializes in the middle of the pack.
01:03:27I didn't like Guaido Barrio's last race.
01:03:30I loved his first race, the allowance comeback in the seven furlong race.
01:03:34And then for whatever reason, in his last start in his sixth race,
01:03:37he goes out the back.
01:03:39And not only is he much further behind than he had been before
01:03:43in a similarly paced race,
01:03:45he didn't finish as quickly as he did in the other race.
01:03:48You'd think if you're that far back and serving all that energy,
01:03:50at least you're going to come flying like a bat out of hell.
01:03:52No, he finished slower than he did the time before.
01:03:56And so I just have questions about where Guaido Barrio is right now
01:04:00going into this race.
01:04:02So to me, I think by default,
01:04:05I think it's got to be Saudi Crown.
01:04:07I think he'll make the early lead.
01:04:10To me, the dirt mile, it was a horrible race,
01:04:14but there was so much speed in there.
01:04:17They sent him away from the gate.
01:04:19They went super fast fractions.
01:04:20He couldn't keep up with that kind of a pace.
01:04:23He's a speed horse.
01:04:25So he just went out the back.
01:04:27Also, he'd been dealing with a foot problem going into that race.
01:04:30It compromised his training just a little bit.
01:04:32I liked his last race at the fairgrounds.
01:04:34It was against much easier horses.
01:04:36He set off the pace a little bit for the first time,
01:04:38which showed a new dimension.
01:04:40I don't think he's going to need to do that here.
01:04:42I think he'll probably make the lead from post position number two.
01:04:45He fits the pattern of the racetrack as far as speed goes.
01:04:48I like him.
01:04:50And if it rains, he moves up big.
01:04:53Yeah.
01:04:54And he's, I think he'll be the favorite though.
01:04:56The TDN Riders are brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:05:00which teams with Hall of Fame trainer,
01:05:02Shug McGahee for two starters in the Pegasus World Cup turf at Gulfstream.
01:05:06We've already talked about integration.
01:05:07They also have battle of Normandy integration coming off.
01:05:11They went in the red Smith at aqueduct three to one second choice battle of
01:05:14Normandy on a four race win streak.
01:05:16Most recently, the river city stakes at Churchill downs.
01:05:19And also on Saturday, as we told you,
01:05:22if you were watching at the top of the podcast or a little bit earlier,
01:05:25Sandman,
01:05:26we'll be running at Oakland park in the Southwest stakes for three-year-old
01:05:30Sandman.
01:05:31Also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:05:38All the thrills.
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01:05:59West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:06:00the gold standard in racing partnerships,
01:06:03visit westpointtb.com.
01:06:07I want to thank everybody for turning in and watching this on this week's
01:06:10edition of the TDN Riders room podcast,
01:06:12especially want to thank my partners, Randy Mawson,
01:06:15this week TD Thornton filling in for Zoe Cabin,
01:06:18who is busy working today at Santa Anita,
01:06:21as it was a Monday when we recorded this.
01:06:23And of course they were running because of Martin Luther King's birthday.
01:06:27I also want to thank our producers, Katie Truniac, Eclipse Award winner,
01:06:31Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca and Aaliyah LaRocca.