Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning, it is 9-12, Wednesday, August 24th.
00:00:27This is the TDN Writer's Room, presented by Keeneland.
00:00:30My name is Joe Bianca, I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News, and this is
00:00:34episode 151, a number I still can't think of to this day without wanting to vomit just
00:00:40a little bit.
00:00:41If you know, you know.
00:00:42Hi, I'm Bill Finley from the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:44I'm a correspondent.
00:00:45Joe, I'm sorry, that went right over my head.
00:00:47I don't get it.
00:00:48Let's let John go, and I'll explain.
00:00:51All right.
00:00:52Jonathan Green, General Manager of DJ Stable, and guys, I am so excited about the Run Happy
00:00:57Traverse group that have been assembled for that race, that I'm going to recommend that
00:01:01they upgrade the race to a grade zero.
00:01:04That's how impressive I think this group is.
00:01:07Get John on the American Greats Stakes Committee, we'll print up, we'll do campaign ads, we'll
00:01:12get a bus, everything.
00:01:15That's the goal for 2023, is to get John on that committee.
00:01:18That's a really important one, honestly, of all the committees John's going to get on,
00:01:21the boards John's going to get on.
00:01:22But anyway, Bill, no, it's just very degenerate stuff.
00:01:25McCarty 151, 75.5% proof, and when you're young, and you need to bang for your buck
00:01:32if you're going out and drinking, that's what happens.
00:01:35To this day, I can't hear 151 at all.
00:01:37You wound up praying to the porcelain God when it was all said and done, right?
00:01:40Exactly.
00:01:41You got it.
00:01:42The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:01:44Don't forget, the Keeneland September yearling sale begins Monday, September 12th.
00:01:48You can learn more and check out the catalog, which has over 4,000 yearlings in it, at TheWorldYearlingSale.com.
00:01:55Okay, so it was all about the Phillies this past weekend, the three-year-old Phillies.
00:01:59Elsewhere, there wasn't all that much exciting on the racing calendar, but we had two very
00:02:03special performances by three-year-old Phillies over the weekend.
00:02:06The one that's going to get the bulk of the attention is Nest in the Alabama, obviously,
00:02:10and she was great.
00:02:11We talked to Erin Wellman from Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners yesterday about her.
00:02:14It was a really good interview.
00:02:15We can check that out in a little bit, but she's the top of her class.
00:02:18She pretty much locked up the three-year-old Philly championship on Saturday.
00:02:22I don't see how Secret Oath or somebody else is going to catch her now.
00:02:24Now she's got three grade-one wins and a second in the Belmont, so that's a pretty bulletproof
00:02:29resume for a champion.
00:02:31But then the other horse, Moira, in the Queens plate was so good-looking, and I honestly
00:02:35had not known that much about her because I don't follow woodbine racing super closely.
00:02:40I know John probably does a little bit more because he's got Mark Cassie on the team,
00:02:43but she could not have looked any better.
00:02:46Just to have that special kick for like three-eighths of a mile like she did, it's really rare.
00:02:52I'm a huge Ghostzapper fan, so I love to see a daughter of Ghostzapper succeeding at the
00:02:56highest levels.
00:02:57And honestly, visually, I thought she might have been even a little bit more impressive
00:03:00than Ness, but they were both super, super nice Phillies with great performances.
00:03:04What did you guys think?
00:03:05Yeah, Joe, I completely agree.
00:03:08They stole the show, and these were the two marquee races.
00:03:11Ness ran, you know, no surprise there.
00:03:14The only surprise would have been if she got beat after she ran so good in the coaching
00:03:17club.
00:03:18She won the coaching club by 12 and changed lengths.
00:03:21That didn't happen, but it didn't need to happen.
00:03:22I think she won by four lengths over Secret Oath, but what she's done is she's in a class
00:03:28by herself.
00:03:29You know, Secret Oath, don't take anything away from her.
00:03:31She is the Kentucky Oaks winner.
00:03:33She finished second behind her two straight races, but she's just not as good.
00:03:36I mean, there's no other way to put it.
00:03:38She just simply isn't as good.
00:03:40So that's a big accomplishment to win the two grade ones at Saratoga, the coaching club
00:03:45in the Alabama.
00:03:46We'll see if she runs now between now and the Breeders' Cup.
00:03:52Later on, you're going to hear from Aaron Wellman on that very subject.
00:03:56In hindsight, it was absolutely the right thing to do to go in the Alabama.
00:03:59I know that, you know, I had in print had brought up the possibility that maybe she
00:04:03should go in the Travers, but you know, when you're going to be one to five or two to five
00:04:07or whatever she is for grade one in Saratoga, I think they did the right thing.
00:04:11You grab it.
00:04:12You don't let that slip out of your grasp.
00:04:14Also, it's interesting.
00:04:15She only got a 99 buyer in there, and that would not have won the Travers.
00:04:20Now that doesn't mean she couldn't have stepped it up and run a little bit faster in the Travers,
00:04:24but that wouldn't have got it done.
00:04:25So switching now to the Queens, but you're absolutely right.
00:04:27I mean, Maura's really, really good.
00:04:29And you know, so many things to talk about here.
00:04:32You know, this race, the Phillies are like every bit as good as the boys.
00:04:36They win it like it seems like almost half the years now.
00:04:40And you know, she comes in there.
00:04:42She throttles the boys.
00:04:43She's now on pace to perhaps go in the Canadian triple crown.
00:04:46I know Kevin Attar, the trainer, hasn't fully committed to the Prince of Wales state yet,
00:04:51but it sounds like he is going to go there.
00:04:53That's the race on the dirt at Fort Erie.
00:04:54I tell you what I want to see from her now is that we haven't had a Queens plate winner
00:04:59in ages step out of the step out of the comfort zone of Ontario and come to the US and win
00:05:05major races.
00:05:06No one's done it really since awesome again in 1997.
00:05:10I think this one is good enough.
00:05:12I mean, I don't know if we'll see her in the States this year because she can focus on
00:05:15the Canadian triple crown.
00:05:17But I think next year when she'll be four, you could see her in races like the Personal
00:05:21Lens and being run this Saturday at Saratoga, that sort of thing.
00:05:25You know, she has to beat open company after beating up on Ontario breads.
00:05:30But yeah, she's really good.
00:05:32And don't forget, she won the Queens plate against the boys.
00:05:35I mean, it was it wasn't just that it was against Ontario breads.
00:05:38It was against the whole gamut of Ontario breads.
00:05:40You know, the majority, if not all of the other entries were were Colts or Geldings.
00:05:45And she blew him away one by seven lengths and a hand right in a new track record.
00:05:49I mean, so it wasn't even like that the rest of the field was kind of sucking when she
00:05:52Moira was actually, you know, accelerating at the end and going a mile and a quarter.
00:05:57That's really impressive.
00:05:58And I think you guys have talked about that, you know, ad nauseum, but but Moira ran a
00:06:03phenomenal race.
00:06:04And like you said, a ghost zapper out of an unbridled song there, you'd expect her to
00:06:07go a mile and a quarter.
00:06:08You'd expect her to go even further if it could be.
00:06:11But just a really talented Philly and a special Philly up up in North in Canada.
00:06:16Let's also spend a minute, if you guys don't mind talking about Spinderella, who also won
00:06:21a great one, the Del Mar Oaks out in California.
00:06:24And here's a New York bread that they brought all the way to California.
00:06:27Grand Motion trains her and Gainesway is the owner.
00:06:31And, you know, kind of went counterintuitive and went out west and won that race really
00:06:36impressively with Tyler Gaffney.
00:06:38Now, again, ninety one buyer isn't going to get anyone excited.
00:06:41But visually, in the eye test, Spinderella looked really, really good winning that great
00:06:45one.
00:06:46You have Feb Rover, who came in and, you know, and won the Canadian state for also for Team
00:06:52Cassie.
00:06:53And then, you know, guys, you guys, we talk about Nest and just how good of a Philly she
00:06:58is.
00:06:59And and it's amazing.
00:07:00You know, we're very fortunate to be sitting here and talking about a Philly like Nest
00:07:06and Secret Oath and other Phillies that are just just continually impressing us and doing
00:07:12well on the racetrack.
00:07:14And Nest, I think, from the really from the beginning of this year, especially, has just
00:07:18shown time and time again that she is the best Philly in the country.
00:07:23I know Secret Oath beat her that one time.
00:07:25And Aaron Wellman talked about the fact that this was an important race because it was
00:07:28the rubber match.
00:07:29It was the third racing against Secret Oath.
00:07:33But I think going this distance, especially going a mile and a mile and a quarter like
00:07:37she did over the weekend, that there are a few three year olds in general in the country
00:07:42that can beat her at that distance.
00:07:44And it's really, really impressive.
00:07:45And guys, I want to I want to remind you that one of us talked about the fact that Nest,
00:07:50you know, with the right circumstances, Nest could be horse of the year.
00:07:54So let's play that clip.
00:07:56You know, at that point in time, does that give Nest the resume to be horse of the year
00:08:01if she beats the boys, you know, finish second in the Belmont and then wins the Travers and
00:08:05beats all the girls in the in the Dystaf?
00:08:09Wouldn't that make a compelling argument for her as well?
00:08:12Hey, I want to jump in.
00:08:14You guys both passed on the biggest story of the week and Joe, you in particular.
00:08:19Chub Wagon got beat on Tuesday at Parks in the end.
00:08:24How weird is this?
00:08:25She's 12 for 14 lifetime.
00:08:28Tenth of her losses have come in the running of the Dr. Teresa Garofalo stakes for Pennsylvania
00:08:33branch.
00:08:34What is it about that race that she doesn't like?
00:08:36And also it was noteworthy that they fired the trainer.
00:08:39Did you notice that?
00:08:40Guadalupe Preciado got the boot and this was her first start running for a trainer by the
00:08:44name of Regina Brennan.
00:08:46For those connections, we love Chub Wagon.
00:08:48She'll be back to fight another day.
00:08:50Nothing wrong with 12 for 14.
00:08:51But Joe, I'm surprised that you were able to get out of bed Wednesday morning.
00:08:55Yeah, no, I didn't want to admit it.
00:08:59I didn't want to admit it to myself that she had actually lost.
00:09:01I think John wasn't done.
00:09:02Go ahead, John.
00:09:03No, no, no.
00:09:04I was just going to say, can we talk about one of the really impressive race?
00:09:07And that was Echo again, you know, winning at Saratoga.
00:09:11First time starter, a gunrunner, a homebred of Winchell and just put on a display.
00:09:17I mean, it was bet down to even money, so everyone expected the horse to win.
00:09:21But one impressively, you know, really gate to wire, 94 buyer, 94 buyer for the son of
00:09:27gunrunner.
00:09:28And, you know, you look at programs and last year we talked about how good Darley was doing
00:09:32and all the Darley breads and how they were was an embarrassment of riches, having so
00:09:35many horses, you know, and all these great ones.
00:09:38How about the Winchell Esmussen connection?
00:09:41You know, they have Echo again.
00:09:42It looks like he's going to be, you know, Breeders' Cup juvenile.
00:09:44The same connections won the Jim Dandy with Epicenter and also won the Amsterdam with
00:09:49Gunite.
00:09:50All homebreds of Winchell, all trained by Esmussen and all written by Rosario, by Santana.
00:09:58Yeah, I mean, in terms of numbers, like nobody, nobody plays at the top level, I don't think
00:10:04compared to their numbers better than Ron Winchell, you know, not more than than a few
00:10:08dozen horses and just always seems to pop up, especially in these two year old races
00:10:12and these grade one and these high, these high price maiden races always seems to do
00:10:16well.
00:10:17I mean, Jimmy's actually had another one, another gun runner on Sunday that that was
00:10:21a borderline rising star for me, Gran Love, who looked really speedy and good, and she
00:10:25jumped back to her wrong lead and didn't look great in the last 16th, but overall looked
00:10:29very, very sharp and very fast.
00:10:31Echo again was really good as well.
00:10:34There was a Bob Baffert horse on Sunday at Del Mar named Home Cooking, who I made a rising
00:10:38star.
00:10:39It looked great.
00:10:40Daughter of Honor Code was really bet hard.
00:10:42First time out ran third and this time came back and won by almost 10 lengths, which was
00:10:46just could not have been more impressive.
00:10:47And you would think my Honor Code is going to want to stretch out too.
00:10:51But just going back to Moira for a second, because this wasn't a one off, like going
00:10:55into this race, she won the Woodbine Oaks by like 100 lengths right before that.
00:10:59So she, she had stamped herself as a quality filly.
00:11:02And it's so interesting for me now, because like you guys say, you know, there haven't
00:11:07been a ton of Queensplate winners who have gone on to have impacts in open races in recent
00:11:12years.
00:11:13But like, you know, Go Sapper had an unbridled song there.
00:11:17Not only is she bred to go long, she's bred to like dirt too.
00:11:20So that's the next thing that we got to see with her, I think, is to see her try one of
00:11:25these big dirt races.
00:11:26And I'm super excited for it.
00:11:27And it was a nice story too, because Kevin Attard, who we've had on the show before and
00:11:31never won the Queensplate before, obviously his family is, you know, steeped in the tradition
00:11:35of Woodbine and Canadian racing and he hadn't won that race yet.
00:11:39So that was a cool little side note to that.
00:11:41And she's just crazy exciting.
00:11:44You know, I saw some people being like, well, it was only a 99 buyer.
00:11:47I don't care what the buyer figure was.
00:11:48The pace was such that she wasn't going to run two minutes flat.
00:11:52The pace, it almost went 50 to the half.
00:11:54You're not going to do that in a dirt race and then run two minutes or 201 for a mile
00:11:58and a quarter.
00:11:59The important thing for me was she has that turn of foot.
00:12:02And I think that that's what makes her so special.
00:12:04You go back and look at the Ashland and that's why we liked her going into the Oaks most
00:12:08out of that big four was that turn of foot and that monster stretch kick that she had
00:12:13in the Ashland.
00:12:14And we've seen that again in the coaching club, American Oaks.
00:12:15We saw it in the Alabama.
00:12:16You just don't see two turn routing dirt horses who have that kind of acceleration the way
00:12:22that she does.
00:12:23And she's going to be a deserved champion.
00:12:24I wrote on Twitter that I feel kind of bad for Secret Oath because in any other year,
00:12:28she would be the clear front runner for the three-year-old Philly championship.
00:12:31You know, you win the Kentucky Oaks, you're third against boys in the Arkansas Derby.
00:12:35You got a couple other stakes wins as well, but she's obviously going to probably going
00:12:39to finish second to nest at the end of the year.
00:12:43We wanted to mention this before we wrap up the weekend, Bill had a great, great story
00:12:47in his weekend review about a favorite of the show, Uriah St. Louis, who won the Island
00:12:52stakes on Saturday, 14 to one shot informative.
00:12:55I wonder what the shortest price is that he ever has won a graded stake at.
00:12:59It's got to be like 10 or 11 to one.
00:13:01I can't imagine him winning in single digits, but that's what we love about him.
00:13:04Like he is the antithesis of all the trainers who just keep their horses in the barn and
00:13:10are scared of the bounce and just duck and duck and duck and look for the softest spots
00:13:14possible.
00:13:15He, you know, and, and Bill wrote this, he can do this because he owns his horses.
00:13:19He doesn't have owners to answer to.
00:13:21So he can, he can run his horses where he wants to and it pays off.
00:13:25He won the jockey club gold cup a couple of years ago, which is a grade one, his staples
00:13:28made over $800,000 this year, even though he's only winning at like 7%.
00:13:33And that's like, you know, that's the dream, I think, you know, unless, unless you want
00:13:38to be winning an eclipse award to me, that's the dream.
00:13:40You winning races, you're making money, you pop up and win a big, you know, pot every
00:13:45once in a while.
00:13:46I just want to read the quote from the story and then I'll toss it to Bill.
00:13:48It was because there was a great quote.
00:13:50He said, we can take chances because we own all the horses.
00:13:52A lot of trainers can't do that.
00:13:54This will be hard for other trainers to do it because they don't own their horses.
00:13:57I used to train for other people.
00:13:59It's a real pain because they say, don't go there.
00:14:01I don't like this spot.
00:14:02I don't want to get embarrassed.
00:14:03I ran discreet lover in the Met mile and he finished fourth.
00:14:06I made $80,000.
00:14:08I wasn't embarrassed to make $80,000, but a lot of trainers would not have run him in
00:14:13that race.
00:14:14And that, that sums it up right there.
00:14:15That's what, that's what drives me crazy about the short fields.
00:14:18Like I get, you want to protect the horse's record and all that, but these races still
00:14:22pay well for second, third, fourth place.
00:14:25You can take the hit to your ego and just cash the check.
00:14:27My guys, like it doesn't not, it does not have to be this constant ducking and dodging
00:14:32whack-a-mole game where you have to get the winner's share of the purse.
00:14:36Otherwise it's not running.
00:14:37Otherwise it's not worth running.
00:14:38So, so thank you to Bill for profiling Uriah.
00:14:40What else did you think about that story though?
00:14:42Yeah.
00:14:43You know, Joe, I mean, he's the best 7% trainer there's ever been, which is the bottom line
00:14:47in this.
00:14:48And you know, I get a real kick out of this guy, but you know, people, he's no joke and
00:14:52I hope nobody looks upon him that way.
00:14:55And you may say, well, this guy's always running 50 to one shots in grade one races, but you
00:14:59know, there is a reason why he does this.
00:15:02This is his business.
00:15:03He wants to make money and you know, he's not afraid to throw a horse in the deep end,
00:15:09you know, knowing that maybe the best he can hope for is the horse finished fourth or fifth
00:15:12or something like that.
00:15:13But especially in this day and age with such small fields and so many stakes races, for
00:15:18instance, you know, there was another example this year, the same horse informative who
00:15:22won the Island ran last in the Met mile.
00:15:25He ran last and Uriah got a check for $40,000 for running last in there.
00:15:30And then every once in a while, these things like informative did in the Island, jump up
00:15:34and win.
00:15:35It was a $250,000 race.
00:15:37So he gets $150,000 and you know, his overhead is extremely low because he doesn't have any
00:15:44owners to deal with.
00:15:46Most of his staff, a lot of his staff is his own family.
00:15:49He's buying really inexpensive horses, you know, $15, $20,000 says he shops mainly at
00:15:54Timonium for two-year-olds and you look down at that $814,000, you know, at the end of
00:16:01the day, that is enough and he's got two months to go to three, four months to go or whatever
00:16:06that at the end of the day, that $814,000 doesn't all go into his pocket because of
00:16:10all his expenses.
00:16:11But he says, hey, I'm making money doing this.
00:16:14And honestly, you know, some owners can have good years and bad years.
00:16:18But over the stretch of like 10, 15 years, how many owners in this business do make money?
00:16:22I'm sure the number, you know, we don't know, but the number is not very good.
00:16:26So you know, this guy's doing something right and it's amazing nobody else does this.
00:16:31You know, everybody else, okay, I don't want to run fifth in this race because that's going
00:16:34to knock my winning percentage down and I got to be a 25% trainer.
00:16:38Well, you know, you don't have to be a 25% trainer.
00:16:41At the end of the day, if you're successful in where it counts, which is the bottom line
00:16:46aspect of his reputation and informative, he's going to be back.
00:16:50He said he's going to run them in the Breeders' Cup.
00:16:52I imagine there'll be about 50 to one in there.
00:16:55And I'm throwing them in on my super effective tickets.
00:16:57There you go.
00:16:58Yeah.
00:16:59Yeah.
00:17:00I mean, sorry, John, I just want to jump in and say like, you can't, like you can't have
00:17:03it both ways because I see, I see people make fun of Uriah.
00:17:05I see people make fun of Ken McPeak when he's talking about like running Phillies against
00:17:09the boys or going to Royal Ascot or whatever.
00:17:11You can't have it both ways.
00:17:12You can't complain about short fields and then make fun of guys like that who take shots
00:17:16with horses that you might not think make sense on paper.
00:17:19You can't have it both ways.
00:17:20You got to pick one or the other.
00:17:21And that's why we love Uriah St. Louis.
00:17:23Like I would love to have him on the show too and just talk to him about his philosophy
00:17:26because he, you know, absent the significant shrinking of the grade stakes calendar or
00:17:32the stakes calendar, he and guys like him are the antidote to short fields and all of
00:17:38the pitiful grade one fields we have in this country.
00:17:41People who are not afraid to run their horses and maybe run off the track more often than
00:17:45not, but at least take a shot with your horse.
00:17:47I mean, that to me is the essence of racing.
00:17:51I'm glad that there are some people that get it still.
00:17:53Yeah, John.
00:17:54No, I was going to say, not only is he kind of a brother for sure, and I know we kind
00:17:58of say tongue in cheek, oh, Uriah's got a horse in the race, but he has figured out
00:18:03his niche in the industry, like you guys mentioned.
00:18:06The other thing is, you know, I looked on thoroughbred regulatory rulings, which shows
00:18:10what he doesn't have.
00:18:11I mean, basically he doesn't have anything.
00:18:12He's got a couple of administrative things for handing in papers late, but he's never
00:18:17had a drug positive.
00:18:19I think they did have one time where he had a positive and then it was rescinded because
00:18:23the test was faulty.
00:18:25So here's a guy who like, you know, he's got a really cool, interesting niche in the industry.
00:18:30And you're right.
00:18:31We should, we talk about all these super trainers and how important they are because they control
00:18:35so many races and stuff.
00:18:36Here's a guy who's like, what the hell, run the horse again.
00:18:38I don't care.
00:18:39You know, and it's not to the detriment of the horse.
00:18:40It's basically like, yeah, if I run fourth or fifth, that's great.
00:18:43And not that he does this with Phillies.
00:18:45I think he does it primarily with, with like with geldings, but if he gets a Philly and
00:18:49runs third in the stake, then, you know, he gets, you know, 10 times what he paid for
00:18:52the horse at that point.
00:18:53Yeah.
00:18:54No.
00:18:55And if Uriah, if you're listening or if somebody's friends with Uriah, tell him we want to come
00:18:58on the show.
00:18:59I want him to come on the show because I think that'd be an interesting conversation.
00:19:03The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by King on King on sales grad swept the grade
00:19:07ones across the country on Saturday with Nest in the Alabama and Spenderella is also a New
00:19:11York bred in the Delmar Oaks plus Moira, who beat the boys in the Queens plate, beat
00:19:16the brakes off the boys in the Queens play.
00:19:18You can't just say she beat him.
00:19:19She's also a graduate of the 2020 King on September sale.
00:19:22We're now less than three weeks away from this year's edition of King on September.
00:19:26The auction covers 12 sessions from September 12th through the 24th.
00:19:30Book one includes yearlings at a 89 graded stakes winners and 36 grade one winners plus
00:19:35siblings to 50 grade one winners.
00:19:38Got to be there.
00:19:39You got to get in on the action.
00:19:40We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:19:43When the thoroughbred world descends upon Lexington this November, there is one place
00:19:48you need to be the place where history comes alive with every championship victory.
00:19:56The place where the future is built with the fall of a gap, the place that exists to be
00:20:02the heart of this industry, the center of it all home to the November breeding stock
00:20:08sale and the 2022 breeders cup Keeneland maximum security proves he's the real deal
00:20:16with a gate to wire when in the Florida Derby champion three-year-old maximum security has
00:20:22won the tbg.com Haskell invitational 11 triple digit bias maximum security.
00:20:29He smoked them in the cigar mile grade one winning four-year-old maximum security takes
00:20:36them all the way in the tbg pacific classic secure your mayor's future maximum security
00:20:42tdn writers room is brought to you by cool more Ashford sire Mendelsohn really on the
00:20:47rise.
00:20:48He had his ninth winner on Sunday with classical cat.
00:20:50It's actually a story in today's tdn about it that you should check out who won at Delmar
00:20:54on debut for Phil D'Amato Mendelsohn has had nine winners overall and nine other placers
00:20:59from 27 runners worldwide to feel like his horses are winning pretty much every weekend
00:21:03now and fellow first crops are Motown had another nice winter on Friday with most stash
00:21:08one on debut at Ellis Motown is the top 10 freshman sire with five winners so far this
00:21:13year I think has six actually now because he had one overseas and he stands this year
00:21:16for just $7,500.
00:21:17So yesterday we sat down with Aaron Wellman is the principal clips thoroughbred partners
00:21:24is one of the sharpest guys in the game honestly I love listening to him talk we had a great
00:21:28conversation about nest about a lot of bigger issues in racing check out our interview with
00:21:33Aaron the green group guest of the week is sponsored by the green group an accounting
00:21:37tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry over 500 clients
00:21:42in the horse business they have proven strategies to save you taxes learn more about how they
00:21:46can help you at www.greenco.com so we are thrilled to welcome back to the show fresh
00:21:52off of a grade one Alabama win with their superstar affiliate the principal of a clip
00:21:56star red partners Aaron Wellman thanks for coming on thanks for having me fellas well
00:22:01always good to talk to you obviously super super exciting time with nest I mean she
00:22:05was just she was absolutely incredible in the Alabama I always wonder this because when
00:22:09you have such a big favorite you know I think a lot of a lot of trainers and owners get
00:22:13a little bit nervous they start thinking about what could go wrong how did you feel going
00:22:16into that race and how did she run compared to what you were expecting I felt oddly calm
00:22:23going into the race she just allows for us to have a lot of confidence and truthfully
00:22:30I feel much more nervous going into big races when you don't feel a hundred percent confident
00:22:38or you're a little bit more concerned about your competition those variables and of course
00:22:43a big race you're one to five and you're arguably going for a championship there's plenty of
00:22:50reason to be nervous but she had just thrived so well in the month between the CCA Oaks
00:22:55in the Alabama that we went in with a lot of conviction that she was gonna go out and
00:23:01perform well again and at the end of the day you just got to kind of put it in perspective
00:23:07and admit she doesn't know us anything regardless of what happened in the Alabama so you try
00:23:13to keep yourself grounded as badly as you want them to perform well and earn those championship
00:23:20honors where matters most on the racetrack you got to just sort of take a deep breath
00:23:25and stay composed as far as the performance was concerned it was nothing short of brilliant
00:23:32she put on another breathtaking display and she's just getting stronger and better and
00:23:39more comfortable in her own skin and it's really a testament to Todd and his program
00:23:44and everybody that's been associated with her from the beginning going back to Stone
00:23:49Street and Ian Brennan who broke and trained her as a baby and all of her grooms the riders
00:23:56that get on her Nora Amelia Irad and of course Todd but at the end of the day it's the Philly
00:24:02that's doing it out there and most of the credit goes to her Aaron congratulations as
00:24:09you said a terrific performance after she won the coaching club Todd Pletcher opened
00:24:13the door a crack maybe just a crack but the subject of the Travers came up how far did
00:24:19those discussions go how seriously did the ownership group look at the Travers and obviously
00:24:25you got a grade one in a prestigious race at Saratoga with a big purse so you did things
00:24:30right but in hindsight any thoughts maybe you should have gotten the Travers zero honestly
00:24:37zero you know I think it was worth the discussion and with Mike Rapoli on the team and Todd
00:24:44of course you know we're huge proponents of New York racing and I think the sportsman
00:24:51like real swing for the fences that we took this year was in the Belmont and we showed
00:24:58that we're not afraid to run against the boys and especially in a race like the test of
00:25:03the champion at a mile and a half over Big Sandy but at this phase of the season we had
00:25:12everything to lose and not much to gain by running in the Travers with a championship
00:25:18on the line and Eclipse award for champion three-year-old Philly if we were to win the
00:25:23rubber match with secret oath as well as look it's a really salty field that's getting ready
00:25:29to line up for the Travers good group of Colts strong Colts with exceptional form you've
00:25:35got the Haskell winner and you've got the Jim Dandy winner you know we could easily
00:25:41knock her out for the rest of the season even if she were to go and beat those boys we might
00:25:47have been a penny wise and a pound foolish at the end of the day so we really wanted
00:25:52to work backwards from the Breeders Cup distaff and even though it was tempting and we're
00:25:59all sportsmen and want to do right by her in this Philly's gained an incredible following
00:26:04and we want to support New York racing and and really create a spectacle the Alabama
00:26:09in and of itself is an incredibly prestigious race it's one of the best races for three-year-old
00:26:14Phillies on the calendar we didn't think she had anything to prove against the boys we
00:26:18thought she proved it on Belmont day and we're just very honored for her to be an Ashland
00:26:24winner second in the Oaks second in the Belmont arguably best on the occasion and now string
00:26:30together those two jewels at Saratoga the CCA Oaks and the Alabama it's hard to do
00:26:37I've been down this road four times previously with Phillies that ran in the CCA Oaks and
00:26:42the Alabama and I've seen how taxing that series can be on horses so we really view
00:26:47this as a two race series Oaks Alabama and then we'll figure it out whether we run her
00:26:53again between the distaff and now or not and Aaron it's amazing from one racing manager
00:27:01to another I've always found that it's easy to manage horses when they're not good when
00:27:06they're claimers or when their allowance sources because those races come up in the condition
00:27:10book all the time but you just laid out perfectly you know what race you're working backwards
00:27:14from which is the Breeders Cup distaff walk us through she wins the distaff she wins the
00:27:19three-year-old championship is she coming back for a year for we have every intention
00:27:24of running her back next year look you know Eclipse is in the business of racing and while
00:27:34we certainly have a program and established pipeline of what we refer to as hashtag Eclipse
00:27:41Phillies that we've made a habit out of developing over the course of the past decade and then
00:27:49selling for seven figures plus it auction or privately which is a huge part of our program
00:27:55to create these Philly assets for our partners this Philly she's cut from a different cloth
00:28:02than than most of our grade one Phillies have been in the sense that she's only supposed
00:28:08to get better touch wood you know health of course is always in the back of your mind
00:28:14but being by Kerlin out of an AP Indy mare and we're starting to see her really blossom
00:28:22as we speak and the thought of her maturing into a four-year-old and beyond is super exciting
00:28:30and Mike Rapoli is the ultimate sportsman Mike house our other partner on the Philly
00:28:37he's getting up there in age and he's having the time of his life there's nothing like
00:28:42campaigning a Philly like this those two guys don't want to speak for them I don't
00:28:49count other people's money but I would say that having a Philly that's capable of running
00:28:53in the races that she's capable of running in at the end of this year and through next
00:28:57hopefully it's far more important than any zeros that they could add to their ledger
00:29:02at this point I'll speak for Mike he's doing okay I think you know one of the things that
00:29:10impresses me about about Eclipse thoroughbreds is that you guys you kind of run the gamut you
00:29:14have a lot of high-powered auction purchases you have partnerships but then I see you guys
00:29:19a lot of times pick up horses from around the country who maybe got a nice maiden win at a
00:29:23smaller track and then you bring them to the to the bigger races what is your team and your
00:29:27evaluation process like you have people that focus on the racing across the country and then people
00:29:32will focus on the auctions how heavily are you involved what is your evaluation process like at
00:29:36Eclipse yeah I appreciate that Joe I believe that this is really a power in numbers portfolio
00:29:45business you've got to be diversified just like any good investment portfolio and while this isn't
00:29:50your traditional type of investment and that we don't tout it as far as the purpose being strictly
00:29:57to make money there's all sorts of other factors that we hype to get partners tied onto the Eclipse
00:30:03program you still have to have a balanced and well diversified portfolio in order to stand the
00:30:11test of time which is what we're trying to do as far as our evaluation process and our purchase
00:30:18process at the end of the day it all falls on my shoulders I've always believed from day one
00:30:26of founding Eclipse that if we're going to accept other people's hard-earned dollars
00:30:34to participate in Eclipse partnerships I've got to be the one to answer to them good or bad and
00:30:41believe me there's going to be a lot more bad than there's going to be good we're going to be wrong a
00:30:44lot more than we're going to be right and I've never felt as though passing the buck onto a
00:30:50third-party bloodstock agent or someone in that realm was the right way to do business because
00:30:57they've got no connection to our core business and in everyday infrastructure so at the end of
00:31:04the day I got to look our partners in the eyes good or bad and tell them that I either bought
00:31:08them a good horse which is rare or own up to having bought them a bad one and and hopefully
00:31:16make it up to them the process is that I'm constantly scouring the globe for talent we try
00:31:25to be strong in all respects whether it's private purchases watching replays of big races all across
00:31:30the country if not the world on a day-to-day basis Sean Tugel has recently joined our program
00:31:37our company as vice president of bloodstock so he and I work hand in hand and we've really
00:31:46tried to fine-tune our auction process at the two-year-old and training sales where we've bought
00:31:51a lot of good horses as well as the yearling sales which have proven to be a hotbed so you know not
00:31:57everybody is good at everything and I certainly admit that but we we do take a lot of pride in
00:32:05our ability to identify talent put it in the right hands develop it and manage it properly to maximize
00:32:11its potential and at the end of the day like I said I've got to be the one that really looks our
00:32:16partners in the eyes regardless of result and stand on that same sort of theme you bought her for
00:32:23$350,000 at Keeneland September you can add a couple zeros on to the end of that now after
00:32:28what she's done but by Kerwin and the kind of Philly she's come I mean I can't believe I'm
00:32:33saying this but in this day and age that's not a lot of money what did you see that the guy
00:32:38swinging for the seven-figure fences maybe didn't see yeah it's wild when I look back on some of our
00:32:45best purchases at public auction and like I said I'm not gonna scoff at 350 grand that's a ton of
00:32:51dough but you're right bill in the grand scheme of this market a Philly like her with her pedigree
00:32:58and as far as I was concerned her physicality at the sale you could have easily have seen her bring
00:33:04double that and incidentally that's how we ended up partnering with Mike Rapoli on the Philly because
00:33:13at the time Jacob West was our VP of bloodstock and Jacob was an integral part of our team for a
00:33:20few years and he's gone on and graduated from Eclipse and he's now got his own bloodstock agency
00:33:26and and a consignment company as well so we wish him the best and he still acts as a consultant
00:33:32for us on occasion but he had a really good relationship with Mike Rapoli did a lot of work
00:33:37with the Rapoli program and of course with Eclipse and we've bought a handful of horses with Mike
00:33:43over the years and when this Philly came on our radar Mike as you guys well know is predominantly
00:33:49in the market for stallion prospect colts at the yearling sales and you've really seen it
00:33:55bust through the last couple years in his partnership with Vinny Viola and St. Elias
00:33:59stables they're spending 14, 15 up to 20 million dollars a year on these colts. Mike wasn't really
00:34:06buying many Phillies but when this Philly came along we did think she was going to be
00:34:12half a million to a million somewhere in that range potentially break through that seven figure
00:34:17ceiling so Mike was going to be really selective about the Phillies he was going to buy and made
00:34:23sure that he had plenty of pedigree behind them and credit to Jacob he shortlisted this Philly for
00:34:30me and we both fell in love with her after we went through our due diligence process
00:34:35and we thought that we were going to need Mike to sort of minimize that high dollar risk
00:34:40well of course when we signed the ticket at 350 we're both looking at each other like
00:34:44what did you need each other for in that instant but believe me it's it's been a heck of a ride
00:34:51and and look there's going to be plenty that you think you got to spend 750 on that you're
00:34:55going to buy for less that you wish you didn't have a partner on that you do wish you had a
00:34:59partner on because they're not going to all turn out to be nests they're going to be failures
00:35:02they're going to be duds and you will have hoped to have minimized your risk and that's sort of the
00:35:06name of the game right now is spreading the risk creating these alignments and partnerships and
00:35:11I got to be honest sharing this experience with Mike and his family and his entourage
00:35:17it's really just heightened the entire ride that much more right so so Aaron right now it looks
00:35:23like you guys have purchased five six seven yearlings already and we're going right into
00:35:29yearling season with the Keeneland sale right around the corner can you give the audience an
00:35:34idea of you know how many yearlings you think you're going to buy and more importantly which
00:35:39ones you know how much of each one would be available for the for the general public because
00:35:44I mean you guys sell out pretty quickly but you know I'm sure that that you hold
00:35:49some back for for new partners and new investors yeah that's a good point
00:35:56I don't have a formula when we go to these sales to be honest with you it's all about trying our
00:36:04best to find the best equine athletes with as much pedigree as we could get behind them
00:36:11at the best value for money that we perceive beauty is in the eye of the beholder in terms
00:36:17of the recruitment process and identifying the talent and it's also very much an art not a
00:36:24science in that respect but also in terms of valuation so you know I don't go into these
00:36:31sales with any preconceived notion obviously Keeneland is the granddaddy of them all
00:36:35thousands of horses to inspect and evaluate and we just really try our best to
00:36:43again create a variety and different flavors for our partners we're unique I think in the fact that
00:36:50when we go to these sales we're not necessarily streamlined laser focused on stallion prospects
00:36:59we're predominantly founded on fillies I think that our equine portfolio is
00:37:07lopsided towards fillies probably 70 75 fillies 20 30 percent colts and we will take our swing
00:37:17on that stallion prospect on occasion taprit being one of the first that we really took a swing for
00:37:24the fences on and thankfully hit it out of the park with him but I believe that to stand the
00:37:28test of time in this business you got to be filly centric and that's really the way we go at it our
00:37:33partners have bought into that concept they believe in it and as they see their portfolio go through
00:37:39cycles they're even buying further into it but I would say you're right Jonathan at this point
00:37:46we've bought a half a dozen between Fasig and Lexington in July Fasig at Saratoga and then
00:37:52the New York bread sale we went 2 2 2 so we're really well balanced to this point and we could
00:37:59walk out of Keeneland anywhere between a half dozen and a dozen maybe a few more come September
00:38:05but again there's no formula we don't raise any money up front we buy everything on the come
00:38:11so every yearling that we sign the ticket on come September my business partner Brian Spearman and
00:38:19I have to have 100% conviction that if for some reason these prospects fall on deaf ears when we
00:38:25go to syndicate them we're willing to own a hundred percent of them and I got to be confident that the
00:38:33athlete the pedigree and the valuation is solid enough that we can turn around and hopefully
00:38:40attract our partner's attention so I would say anywhere between a half a dozen and a dozen
00:38:46will look to get at Keeneland but it's so fun man it's what gets me up in the morning
00:38:50it's what fuels my fire is trying to find these talented equine athletes and then watch them
00:38:55develop and Keeneland is the ultimate source absolutely it's Keeneland sponsored show we're
00:39:03we're contractually obligated to agree with that but no you're definitely right but so this is the
00:39:07last question for me because it's really fascinating to hear you talk about auctions and partnerships
00:39:12you know that's that's the way of the world now more and more partnerships at these big sales
00:39:16on the one hand obviously you're thinning out the competition the more you partner with people on
00:39:20the other hand you have to pay more for horses these days so so what are some are there downsides
00:39:25to the advent of the partnership or has it has it been mostly gravy for you guys
00:39:32man that's the $64,000 question right so far it seems to be working for operations like eclipse
00:39:40and it seems to be working for the industry at large time will tell as it always does
00:39:46i think the nature of the business in all respects right now is consolidation we're seeing that in a
00:39:52lot of ways but really the focus is on quality i think this goes back to when the bottom dropped
00:40:00out of the economy back in 0809 i was just starting to become a professional in the business i left my
00:40:06law practice and boom you know the the subprime mortgage crisis hit and it wasn't exactly the
00:40:12greatest of times to be involved in the racehorse business but i learned a lot at that time and i
00:40:17think what happened was a lot of big breeders a lot of own to race owners realized that you cannot
00:40:27carry a whole lot of fat in your stable regardless of whether you're breeding or or owning to race
00:40:34and the focus has got to be on quality the economic model is already against us going
00:40:39into this game and what has started to make sense and this goes back to one of my mentors
00:40:45cott campbell who is the pioneer of racing partnerships so it's a testament and a tribute
00:40:50to his vision back in the day is that you got to focus on quality and spread risk and really where
00:40:57it makes the most sense is trying to compete at the highest level we still need the claiming
00:41:02ranks we need the blue collar everyday owner trainer and operation to make this business tick
00:41:10but if you're going to try to compete at the highest level you've got to be laser focused
00:41:15in that realm and i think that's what you're seeing and we've been very fortunate to have
00:41:21some great alignments with micropoly gary barber gainesway farm bridlewood farm bob lapenta you
00:41:28know some titans of industry that maybe seven eight years ago you never would have thought in
00:41:32a million years the stone streets of the world the cool moors of the world the wind stars of the
00:41:36world would ever even contemplate partnering up on a horse and when you see those titans of industry
00:41:44aligning with other operations yeah you get into the back rain at canelan or you go into the
00:41:49pavilion at any of these auction houses and you see them lining up you know you better have your
00:41:53boxing gloves on because it's going to be a war and fortunately our alignments have been very
00:41:59healthy and our partners have bought into the concept as well but it's it's the name of the
00:42:06game it's the rule now rather than it's than the exception that partnerships rule the roost
00:42:12and i think it's here to stay uh aaron let's switch gears for a little bit um aloha west
00:42:17last year's breeders cup sprint runner um didn't get off to the greatest start this year but he
00:42:21did win last time out in the kelly's landing stakes um tell us what's in store for him and
00:42:26are you guys re-energized with this victory and think that he can again be the type of horse to
00:42:31win the breeders cup sprint yeah aloha has been a dream come true for our program such a cool horse
00:42:39obviously won the breeders cup sprint last year and we had to start him off in rather ambitious
00:42:47fashion this season the timetable to get him back to start his season was such that we had
00:42:52no choice or very little choice but to run him in the churchill downs on derby day he ran into
00:42:58jackie's warrior i think he ran a better than look third on the occasion he was buried down
00:43:01on a dead rail and closer to the pace than he really wants to be uh so he ran third that day
00:43:07we took our swing for the fences to try to really escalate his potential stallion value ultimately
00:43:15by running him in the met mile against flight line and speaker's corner he just wasn't himself
00:43:19that day and although it was really nerve-wracking you know you asked me was it nerve-wracking going
00:43:25to the nest race that wasn't nerve-wracking bringing back a breeders cup winner on three
00:43:28rakes rest off a bad effort in the met mile and bringing him into a listed race at churchill
00:43:33that's nerve-wracking um and fortunately he got the job done on the occasion uh did come out of
00:43:40it a little tired so we decided you know what we're going to back off on him for the bulk of
00:43:45the summer and work our way backwards from the breeders cup at keeneland our hope is to get a
00:43:51prep into him in the phoenix at keeneland which is what he was beating a nose in last year prior to
00:43:57his breeders cup victory so if we can go phoenix breeders cup we'd be ecstatic aaron one more
00:44:02question for me and again thank you for your time this has been enlightening and really enjoyable
00:44:08um with with the new hyzer rules coming in has that helped you guys as a partnership bring in
00:44:14outside investors or is it still the perception by the general public is the horse industry still
00:44:20needs to get their shit together basically i think it's a combination of both i really do
00:44:27um we got to start somewhere right and i know that the types of partners that eclipse attracts
00:44:35are interested in integrity in all respects and really what they want most when we send a horse
00:44:42out onto the playing field is for a level playing field they want to know that our horse is standing
00:44:47in that starting gate with however many other competitors in the gate on the same playing field
00:44:54nobody's taking an edge or able to take an edge and we tout that in our program i think if you
00:45:00look at the trainers that we employ year in and year out they're stand-up guys that
00:45:06you know really operate the right way so to your point i don't think that there's any downside to
00:45:15the hyzer is it attracting new owners to come through our doors and want to join a eclipse
00:45:21partnership i don't know i don't think it can hurt i don't think it'll detract people from
00:45:27wanting to come to eclipse or any other partnership or to join the ownership ranks in
00:45:32general i said this in another interview a couple weeks ago you know we're seeing handle rise through
00:45:39the roof this summer there's really good trends and maybe we're operating in a vacuum right now
00:45:45i don't know again time will tell but if one guy decides you know what i'm going to open up the
00:45:52rubber band on my bankroll again and dip into the pool at saratoga this weekend or at delmar
00:45:58because he's read the heist in effect and he feels more confidence in the wagering product
00:46:06and that he's got a more fair shake when he goes to bet his hard-earned dollars
00:46:12there's no downside here are there going to be growing pains absolutely any initiative like this
00:46:20especially in the political realm is going to have bumps in the road and we're seeing that
00:46:26but i gotta be honest i've been very impressed with hyces upper management with lisa lazarus
00:46:33she is willing to listen and although change and getting it right might not be immediate and it
00:46:38might not be happening as fast as we all want it to be they're trying and we finally broke down
00:46:45that barrier of actually having some unified governing body as it relates to medication at
00:46:52least um so we've been fighting an impossible battle for decades where we've made very little
00:47:01progress and whether you agree with how it's being run or not or you're willing to wait for
00:47:06these bumps in the road to be smoothed out or not you gotta admit that we're at least making some
00:47:12progress at the end of the day we can't lose sight of the fact that the reason heisa is in
00:47:18effect is because we want to operate on a level playing field if we keep our eye on the ball
00:47:26in that respect we're gonna be okay long term we might have growing pains there might be some
00:47:34you know real trauma along the way but i think long term look we're all young guys we all want
00:47:40to be in this business for the long haul i think if we stay the course we support the initiative
00:47:46we're going to be in really good shape and look back on this watershed moment in 10 15 20 years
00:47:51from now and say okay that was the beginning of the real saving of our sport in our industry
00:48:00bill you were obviously excluded from that comment bill i was going to say he said young
00:48:04guys aaron just sewed up my eclipse award for the owner of the year
00:48:11thanks aaron aaron thank you so much for the time man i could listen to you all day one of
00:48:16our favorite interviews congrats on the win and thanks for the time my guy i appreciate it thanks
00:48:21for thinking of eclipse guys and you know you guys put your time into this every week and it's
00:48:27it's a thankless job but thanks for promoting the industry and bringing on interesting characters
00:48:32every week i think it's a real benefit and great content so thank you for for what you guys as well
00:48:40green group guest of the week is sponsored by the green group an accounting tax consulting and
00:48:44advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry as this week's green group guest of
00:48:47the week aaron wellman will receive a free one hour tax consultation learn more at greenco.com
00:48:53be right back after this message from the green group why do the most successful owners breeders
00:48:59and horsemen select the green group as their tax advisor we simply save them money and know how to
00:49:03make them more successful over the past 40 years founder leonard green has owned and bred some of
00:49:07the best race horses in the history of the sport his in-depth hands-on industry knowledge combined
00:49:12with cutting-edge tax saving strategies has produced positive results for his clientele
00:49:16and has made the green group the top rated accounting and tax firm in the business for
00:49:20a confidential and complimentary consultation contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website
00:49:27at www.greenco.com the green group proven strategies to save you taxes the pa horse breeders
00:49:33association introduces the pennsylvania stallion series four brand new races to be run at parks
00:49:39for pa sired pa bred two-year-olds there are two one hundred thousand dollar contests on august 22nd
00:49:46pa day at the races september 24th pa derby day has two more races each with a two hundred
00:49:52thousand dollar purse the pa stallion series yet another reason why pennsylvania is the premier
00:49:57place to breed and race for more please visit pabred.com the tdn writers room is brought to
00:50:04you by the pennsylvania horse breeders association phba celebrated successful pennsylvania day at the
00:50:09races on monday at parks the day included seven one hundred thousand dollar stakes including the
00:50:14first two races from their new pa bred pa sire two-year-old stallion series each of those stakes
00:50:20attracted 12 entries and what really was a nice card full fields florida sombra won the miss blue
00:50:26tide ice stakes and is undefeated from her first two starts looked really good 90 maddie won the
00:50:31whistle pig for owner breeder lc racing i'm pretty sure john is friends with it was also announced
00:50:36this week that brody's cause a great one winning son of giants causeway is going to be moving to
00:50:39pennsylvania for the 2023 breeding season they'll be standing at equistar training and breeding
00:50:44very exciting opportunity for pennsylvania breeders there's only so many sons of giants
00:50:48causeway that are going to be left you know after we lost him in the last couple years so
00:50:52definitely a good opportunity there to get into that sire line and of course the highlight the
00:50:58or maybe the low light of the day was chubb wagon losing but like bill said g will be back and better
00:51:03than ever it was a terrific terrific day of racing racing and now we look forward to pennsylvania
00:51:07derby day which is an event actually in just a month september 24th at parks okay you may have
00:51:13heard of this story at some point last week with chad brown who is uh the leading trainer in america
00:51:19i would say the preeminent trainer he's been championed three or four times by now he was
00:51:23arrested in saratoga uh for allegedly uh obstruction of breathing uh there was a woman who made a
00:51:29complaint about him that he that he physically it was a physical altercation and he assaulted her
00:51:34obviously nothing is proven at this point he did spend the night in jail on tuesday he was released
00:51:39on wednesday with a $2,500 bail uh bill wrote the story along with mike cain bill what did you learn
00:51:45yeah i mean i'll just lay out you know the facts of what we learned um in the story the um the woman
00:51:50was described herself as an on again off again significant other of chad brown chad was at home
00:51:58and she entered into his i mean this is again all alleged and this is one side of the story etc
00:52:04she uh entered into his home she said using a key that she had to get into his home in saratoga
00:52:11uh don't want to get in the gutter but i don't know any other way to say this found him in bed
00:52:15with another woman that led to an altercation in which she accused chad of pushing her down the
00:52:21stairs and choking her that obstruction of breathing uh is just a fancy uh word for choking i
00:52:27don't know why why they use that um so uh he spent the night in jail the next morning at his arraignment
00:52:33he pled not guilty as you would expect and he's going to be back in court uh in september i mean
00:52:39it's it's a messy story it's nothing to make light of or you know uh you know sometimes we kind of
00:52:44like to poke these guys oh trainers behaving badly i don't want to go down that route whatsoever
00:52:48because this is way too serious the only thing i'll say on this is that uh as serious as this
00:52:54issue is i i do think it's important i need kind of touch upon this show for people not to rush to
00:52:59judgment here i mean we do live in a society where you're innocent until proven guilty he
00:53:03deserves his day in court and people have said that an irish should have banned him or should
00:53:07have been uh you have been suspended by the new york gaming commission i i don't think that would
00:53:13have been appropriate at all um i don't know where this is going from here um it is uh you know a
00:53:19black guy uh for a lot of people a lot of reasons and uh just stay tuned we'll see what happens next
00:53:26yeah i mean like this was this was it was an it's an awkward thing to report on because like
00:53:30you said this is all alleged this isn't proven uh you know the rumor mill is spinning like crazy
00:53:35there's a lot of a lot of whispers about about chad going on right now um but i just the thing
00:53:40i wanted to say is that you know this everything is so all these like debates are so poison now
00:53:46on twitter and in in racing in general where you got to take a side you got to be like pro chad or
00:53:52pro chad or pro woman and it's just like can we just wait a little bit and like and see what
00:53:57happens and see the proceedings because like there are people that are upset that you know tdn even
00:54:03reported the the the woman's side of the story it's like well that's the news like that's that's
00:54:08that's the side of the story we have right now so we have to report that nobody's saying he 100%
00:54:13did this and should be thrown in jail forever but that's that's the story right now and it'll
00:54:19be interesting to see if chad ever ever says anything about this or if there's more court
00:54:23proceedings or maybe it'll be settled at a court but obviously it's it's it's shocking shocking
00:54:28news in terms of you know you don't usually see big big high profile people in racing get arrested
00:54:34especially not for stuff like this like maybe for drugs you know but not not for stuff like this
00:54:38sorry john go ahead no and and and john bell i'm glad that we're talking about it just in the sense
00:54:44that it is newsworthy it is a story and and it's an unfortunate story again nothing's been proven
00:54:49yet but based on the on the facts and circumstances you know we as as you guys more so than me i
00:54:54pretend to be a journalist you guys really are you know you have to report these stories right
00:54:59and this is yeah it's a it's something that that's a big deal no matter what it doesn't it doesn't
00:55:04pertain to racing necessarily it's not like a beta methazone overage where you can have this
00:55:08debate back and forth or was that the reason the horse won the race you know it's just where it's
00:55:13it's a little tough to pin down like how big of an offense it is if true we don't know that this
00:55:18is true if true this is obviously very serious and needs to be taken care of by regulatory bodies but
00:55:24obviously the the process has to play out this story i think has been reported extremely
00:55:29responsibly so far not just the tdn but throughout the industry i don't see anybody at least in the
00:55:33official pages of racing publications pointing fingers or or throwing him away and you know
00:55:39throwing him in jail knocking knocking up you know throwing away the key but like this stuff
00:55:43has to be reported but it's still early in the process and we need to let it play out like was
00:55:48that so hard for everybody to say and everybody everybody to acknowledge is everything have to be
00:55:52a war a flame war every time something happens like this seems like the kind of thing that we
00:55:56more people should be able to agree on at this stage so i just want to say one more thing and
00:56:01you say um you know whether or not he would be sanctioned again this is if the end of the day
00:56:06he is found guilty of this and and only that um i don't know that there's any blueprint or
00:56:11template for this and i can't recall any trainer in this sport uh being sanctioned for off the track
00:56:19issue like this like domestic violence and so i don't know how racing handles this or deals with
00:56:25it and you know the the and and look at all the problems the nfl has had with this it's just been
00:56:30it's been so many different uh examples of this and by and large people think the nfl has done
00:56:35a terrible job with how they police this so you know i you know if in fact he is at the end of
00:56:42the day found guilty what would be next so far as what racing would do we'll pay attention to
00:56:47this story and we'll see hopefully we get some more updates but i just wanted to switch gears
00:56:51and and jamie netts who is a big-time trainer in the mid-atlantic states who's won a ton of races
00:56:58he's been suspended six months by the pennsylvania racing commission pennsylvania racing commission
00:57:03is taking people out left and right you love yeah that's like finally we have we have some
00:57:10cops on the beat somewhere here in america who are not afraid to kick people out or not afraid
00:57:15to suspend people because they've been on they've been on a a killing spree here with getting these
00:57:20guys out of here and jamie ness is a guy who's had a ton of overages a ton of you know disqualifications
00:57:27and a ton of issues and you know he's just he's just one of those guys who you know miraculously
00:57:32goes to different places pops up out of nowhere and starts winning at 25 28 it's just one of those
00:57:37things that defies belief and i don't know what the specific issue was here he's also is it says
00:57:43a horse he trained tested positive for bufotanine which i don't even know what that is he was also
00:57:49fined five thousand dollars suspension begins september 5th months through march 2023 i mean
00:57:55obviously there's gonna be an appeals process this isn't the end of that but i just want to
00:57:59like john was clapping i want to applaud the pennsylvania racing commission because
00:58:04you know there's so much stuff that just stinks to high heaven in this industry and we all just
00:58:08are supposed to sit here and act like it's normal and it just isn't and jamie ness is one of those
00:58:13guys that just he's just had so many results and so many horses that you're just like come on bro
00:58:18like especially the claims big claimer claims sixteen thousand dollar horses all of a sudden
00:58:23they're in a stake and they're in when an allowance is by five ten lengths it's just i don't even care
00:58:28about the specific instance here jamie ness is a guy who's had chance after chance after chance
00:58:33after chance to do things right and still has these unbelievable results any thoughts guys
00:58:39yeah um i mean look joe we obviously you know what we've been doing over these last 151 shows
00:58:46uh is you know keep harping on this subject about you know we got to get take care of the bad guys
00:58:50we got to weed them out of the game and you know i've been equally on that path as the two of you
00:58:57but i take a deep breath here and i think everybody else i'm telling you there's more to
00:59:03this story than meets the eye and look if jamie ness is a bad guy or good guy if he cheats or
00:59:07doesn't cheat the end of the day just like we talked about chad brown you know this has to be
00:59:12proven and he has to have his day in court and there's a lot of stuff about this that just
00:59:17doesn't add up now the the drug is called bufoteninine it's also known as toad venom
00:59:24and i guess toad venom is a hallucinogenic that you know uh the same as like using mescaline or
00:59:30mushrooms i see you're shaking your head but bear with me here um the aric says it has no effect on
00:59:36the physiology of the racing animal whatsoever it's also found in grass and then can get into
00:59:42the horse's system by them eating grass now let's just suppose that jamie ness use this bufoteninine
00:59:52to dope horses to improve their performance look i'm not a chemist i don't know but how on earth
00:59:58could giving them a hallucinogenic that comes from toads improve their performance it reminds me a
01:00:03little bit about the bafford scopolamine case with justify where you know it it looks like it could
01:00:09have been an environmental contamination um this is not like okay they did a test they caught them
01:00:17with this drug uh it's in a system bang you're you're banned for six months it's a somewhat
01:00:23bizarre case and at the end of the day i'm not sure that jamie ness is going to go down for this
01:00:30yeah he might not go down for this but i think it's kind of like similar to bafford in the sense
01:00:36of he's been given so many chances and he's and there's just you know it walks like a duck and
01:00:41quacks like a duck it's a duck and and the guy has 108 reported uh regulatory infractions
01:00:49on the thoroughbred of course 75 of them for horses late to the paddock you know so
01:00:56yeah and the other thing i would say is even if there's a contaminant that they find in grass
01:01:01you guys haven't been to the parks backstretch i can tell you there is not one freaking blade
01:01:06of grass back there so it's not a matter of oh the horse was grazing like it's not like keeneland or
01:01:11you know or kentucky downs where there's just fields and fields of bluegrass if there's if
01:01:15there's any grass back there it's in a ziploc bag and the guys are smart there's no there's no turf
01:01:20you know back on the on the on the racetrack so i'm a little disappointed um you know that that
01:01:25i'm disappointed in in in the fact that you know drew malika who has been on the show is a friend
01:01:31of the show and i know him personally he's actually representing jamie ness and i'm a
01:01:34little disappointed in in that and i know he's an attorney and and everybody's entitled to a defense
01:01:40come on i understand i understand but but i like to think i'm already represented charles manson i
01:01:45mean i get it i i'm not i'm not saying that there's a percentage though bill i'm 44 it's still
01:01:52my it's still my time it's still my time i'm not saying that drew's a bad guy for doing it and
01:01:55everyone does deserve to have legal representation i'm saying that i've had many many conversations
01:02:00with drew and i think he's a very down-to-earth guy and i think he's an intelligent guy and that's
01:02:03why i'm disappointed because he can pick and choose what trait what what clients he wants to have
01:02:08and he's claimed you know he's representing jamie ness who for all intents and purposes
01:02:13is one of the guys that that you know training that we wouldn't run at parks because of trainers
01:02:19like jamie ness that's why we haven't run there in three years because we just you can't you can't
01:02:24win and aaron wellman said it very well in our interview when we talked to him about hyza and he
01:02:29said as an industry we just want to know that we have a fair shake we want to have an even playing
01:02:33field and there was never an even playing field at least not in the past you know five six seven
01:02:37years with regard to parks and i've been on you know i've been very outspoken and and the you know
01:02:42some of the powers that be at parks have actually you know pulled me aside and reprimanded me about
01:02:47talking you know negatively about the racetrack well you know what i'm going to talk positively
01:02:51about the racetrack because i'm so happy that's what i was clapping before so happy that they are
01:02:55trying to clean up the mess that is parks racing and and if it's not on this one if it's not on this
01:03:01single individual test and he'll have his day in court um it's got to be on the other you know 108
01:03:08or whatever even it's 30 medication um uh issues because the guy the guy is not a hall of fame
01:03:16trainer but he's running at hall of fame stats yeah just one more first of all you i think you
01:03:20gave credit to the wrong outfit it's the pennsylvania racing commission that is behind this
01:03:25um this is i don't parks hasn't taken any action here all i'm saying is and look i don't
01:03:31what you both you and joe have said you know i i can't say i'd really disagree with with uh it but
01:03:38just trust me this isn't as cut and dried as it might seem and you know at the end of the day
01:03:45you can't suspend somebody when they didn't do anything wrong and i'm telling you there's a case
01:03:51to be made here that he didn't do anything wrong i mean we can't be you know there's we don't go
01:03:57we don't do this in a kangaroo court that's all and you know look maybe at the end of the day
01:04:02he'll get the six months and and he'll go away for half a year and then you could say yay yay yay
01:04:07yay they you know they they got rid of the guy for six months it's all possible just just keep it
01:04:13just wait just like we said with chad brown just wait and see fair enough fair enough no i mean i
01:04:19don't think it's the same as chad brown because this is as far as we know as far as what's been
01:04:23reported this is the first offense in this regard for chad brown i'm not comparing i want
01:04:29to be careful i don't want to say the wrong thing i'm not comparing domestic violence in any way to
01:04:33using toad venom on a horse that i just mean that when we came i think we all came to the conclusion
01:04:38that you know chad brown deserves his day in court and we'll see what happens that's what i'm
01:04:44comparing to the jamie ness situation let's just look at some of his numbers he's been training
01:04:48since 1999 he's got 3700 career winners and a career winning percentage of 25 can you name a
01:04:55graded stakes winning horse that jamie ness has how about a stakes winning horse the guy's racked
01:05:00up 3700 winners winning at 25 strictly almost on low level claimers and maybe low level allowance
01:05:07horses he's got 107 wins at parks to john's point 67 more than the next leading trader the next
01:05:15leading trainer has 40 winners he's winning at 28 at parks he does this everywhere he goes he goes
01:05:20to tampa he goes to laurel he goes to all these places and just even if he hasn't even he's been
01:05:25out of the game for a little bit pops up and starts winning at 30 starts claiming off of
01:05:29everybody and moving horses up whether or not this this particular incident i love john's line about
01:05:35the no grass at parks because like you know everybody's got an excuse always like yeah
01:05:40bill you might be right you might indeed be right that this is going to get overturned on appeal and
01:05:44it was you know you know how it is you just walk around the street and then you get some toe venom
01:05:49on you and then you you blow a test like it just it happens sometimes i get it common story but i
01:05:55think in general the the idea to get people like jamie ness out of pennsylvania racing can only help
01:06:01pennsylvania race it the tdn writers room is brought to you by xb tv this week's xb tv
01:06:07workout of the week which you can see right now if you're watching the video version of this podcast
01:06:11which you should always be doing is cyber knife who put in his final work last saturday for this
01:06:16weekend's grade one run happy traverse stakes which we're going to preview in a little bit
01:06:20the son of gunrunner worked in company with stakes winner angitude and went five furlongs in one
01:06:25minute flat he was given second choice morning lion odds of seven to two and drew post one don't
01:06:31think i'm gonna get this the 7.8 to one that i got on cyber knife in the haskell but you know he is a
01:06:37contender like i said we're going to talk about that race in a little bit and he's to me to my
01:06:42knowledge is the only son of gunrunner who already has a stallion deal but he sure as hell is not
01:06:46going to be the last one so if you want to see all those travers works you know epicenter all the top
01:06:51contenders go to xbtv.com just type the horse's name in the search bar they'll almost certainly
01:06:56have it for you
01:07:26so
01:07:56so this is the weekend preview presented by three chimneys we got a huge weekend coming up obviously
01:08:04traverse day it's the it's the race everybody circles on their calendar most on the saratoga
01:08:09summer schedule and you know it's got an eight horse field you'd like you'd like a couple more
01:08:14the big story of the race going into it was the scratch of charging which is unfortunate
01:08:19you know it's just one of those horses that you know just doesn't run as frequently as you would
01:08:23want him to i just you know when when the horse wins a race like he won the dwyer and you know
01:08:29there's 10 weeks or whatever it is to the travelers and they're like yeah we're just waiting for the
01:08:32travelers i'm like okay something something can pop up with a horse like this over time and
01:08:37unfortunately that's what happened because he was the really he was the most interesting horse in
01:08:40the race to me with the 111 buyer and the 23 length win so we're left with a field of eight
01:08:45epicenter is the i thought surprisingly heavy morning line favorite at seven to five
01:08:50he drew post six uh we have the derby winner in there rich strike drew post two he's 10 to one
01:08:55morning line we've got three horses for chad brown early voting this was obviously the preakness
01:09:00winner uh arturias and xandin so chad's got three of the eight still looking for his first travelers
01:09:06winner that's gonna be a fun interview after the race if chad wins uh the travelers but uh i i will
01:09:13try to beat epicenter again i think he just is not that much better than these horses although he
01:09:18looked tremendous in the gym dandy that was a short field i think it's going to be a little
01:09:23bit tougher to figure out in this race what the pace is going to be like the good thing about
01:09:27epicenter and we've said this before is that he's so versatile he can be on the lead he can be just
01:09:31off the lead we saw in the gym dandy he can drop back and make one run so i totally respect him as
01:09:36the favorite i just think this is a good enough traverse field that you shouldn't be taking six
01:09:41to five or seven to five on anybody guys what are your first thoughts on the travelers um i'll take
01:09:45the seven to five on him joe i just think he's kind of and he's not going to be two to five like
01:09:50ness but just like we said i just think he's better than these horses and i think he's proven
01:09:54that uh particularly in the gym dandy um and you know his run in the in the derby and preakness
01:09:59were very very good um you know it's kind of a shame this race is a good race but you lost
01:10:03botanical you lost charge and it could have been really uh you know a race with a lot of sizzle
01:10:08but uh you know in epicenter again um if he wins this does he clinch the three-year-old championship
01:10:14maybe maybe not because a three-year-old male could still win of course the breeders cup classic
01:10:18um it's funny too i mean i don't i wouldn't bet on rich strike with with your money but you know
01:10:23here we have the kentucky derby winner is 10 to 1 in here and it's hardly like he's even in the
01:10:27race nobody talks about him whatsoever but uh you know when he didn't show much in the um in the uh
01:10:35belmont you know you can go back to just saying the whole thing uh was a fluke but an interesting
01:10:40race yeah uh the three chad brown horses steve asked me he said i know we'll get into the other
01:10:44races but he could have an absolutely huge day on saturday at saratoga and um yeah um i'm an
01:10:51epicenter guy and uh uh you know maybe right maybe you're right overall maybe taking a six to five
01:10:56shot in a situation like this is not the best thing to do but when i think he's going to win
01:11:00the race i'll take the six to five and i don't think we should lament the fact that you know
01:11:04a couple of big horses aren't in the race i think we should focus on how good the field is um you
01:11:09have the haskell winner the preakness winner the jim dandy winner the bluegrass winner oh and the
01:11:15kentucky derby winner also so you have five horses that won you know arguably the most important
01:11:21three-year-old races of the country um other than the belmont and and they're going to go head to
01:11:25head to head to head to head if i they're going to go they're all going to go mano a mano and i
01:11:31think that you know early voting who put in a clunker in the jim dandy but before that he was
01:11:37second choice in that race and and if they figured out why he whether he bounced or what have you
01:11:42what his issue was in the in the jim dandy um he's gonna be really tough and he's morning line
01:11:47eight to one and bill you mentioned that the kentucky derby winner is ten to one in the race
01:11:51um you know so it's it's a very good field it's very deep field and it's probably as tough of a
01:11:57field um you know at least in the contenders range since 2018 when catholic boy went up against
01:12:05mendelsohn vena rosso gronkowski good magic and wonder goodell so you know that was the last time
01:12:12in my estimation when we had a field of top top three-year-olds coming in and and just waging war
01:12:19against each other in the travers i dare to say i think that this is a better field overall than
01:12:25the kentucky derby was quite frankly and you know the reason being is you have all these horses that
01:12:30are now pointed for this race they're getting uh you know this is going to be you know like i said
01:12:36a grade zero kind of race i think that we're going to look back at this race especially come
01:12:40you know when these horses are starting to retire to become stallions and we're going to say boy
01:12:44remember when so-and-so fill in the blank won the travers that catapulted him to the three-year-old
01:12:50championship 153rd running of the run happy travers that i said run happy the first time
01:12:55i don't want mac to get mad at me um so it's it's going to be a great day of racing i'm looking at
01:12:59the weather right now it looks like we're going to be okay let me see yeah saturday looks beautiful
01:13:06at saratoga 81 degrees partly sunny anybody that's going to be out there have a great
01:13:11great time um but bill brings up an interesting point about the three-year-old championship
01:13:15because epicenter as much as he's done and as heavily heavy as a favorite he's going to be
01:13:19he still doesn't have a grade one win as a three-year-old so that's important he's got the
01:13:23risen star he's got the louisiana derby he's got the jim dandy he did run second obviously in the
01:13:27derby in the pregnancy so he's definitely the leader right now but say cyber knife wins this
01:13:32race that'll be his third grade one win of the year he won the arkansas derby won the haskell
01:13:37cyber knife wins he's the new leader in the three-year-old division so you know as much as
01:13:41we respect epicenter as much as we think he's the horse to beat and he's had a very good campaign
01:13:45very consistent campaign this is not this is not a layup race for him at all and it's not a layup
01:13:51that he's going to be three-year-old champion now obviously if he wins this race he's going to be
01:13:54tough to catch but that's that's the subplot in here is that like john says you have a bunch of
01:13:59grade one winners in here who could take the lead in the three-year-old champion race you know and
01:14:03it'd be nice actually to see some some drama in that because i think like we said nest is basically
01:14:08a foregone conclusion now in the three-year-old philly division so it's going to be interesting
01:14:12to see coming out of this race how we feel about the three-year-old class and i think overall we
01:14:17felt like this is an above average crop you know we've we've lost a couple horses here and there
01:14:21along the way but it's going to be interesting coming out of this race to to analyze how we
01:14:26think these horses are going to run against the elders later in the year and i think that that
01:14:32so a lot of that depends on how flight line does in the pacific class because you've got a very
01:14:36very strong group of older males so it'll be interesting to see coming out of here where we
01:14:41think that the three worlds stack up because after this they got to take on the older horses and then
01:14:46we'll look forward to that for sure go just just because this reminds me all the time can we at
01:14:49least mention ain't life grand and gilded age they're running also just so we can say we did
01:14:54talk about them on the show ain't life grand won the iowa derby over conagher who came back and
01:14:59ran a big race i think we might see conagher and the h allen jerkins which we're going to talk
01:15:03about after this break but yes thank you thank you for the remi reminder to to mention every
01:15:08horse in the race so yeah so we don't get yelled at by anybody the cdn writers room and more
01:15:15specifically this weekend preview segment is sponsored by three chimney stallions it was
01:15:18another week another tdn rising star for three chimneys superstar sire gunrunner echo again who
01:15:25we mentioned who john mentioned earlier looked terrific winchell homebred is the sixth rising
01:15:29star already for last year's freshman siren horse of the year gunrunner was campaigned by the same
01:15:34connections as echo again gunrunner had another impressive juvenile winner on sunday who i
01:15:39mentioned with grand love homebred for three chimneys looks very speedy and he's got a big
01:15:43weekend ahead with multiple grade one winners cyber knife who has a huge chance coming up in
01:15:47the travers pregnancy early voting another good chance in the travers and he's got some horses on
01:15:52the undercard that we're going to talk about a little bit we'll be right back after this message
01:15:56from three chimneys here comes taber taber in the center of the track with good looking stride
01:16:03squares off with cyber knife cyber knife takes the lead taber going with him these two in a thriller
01:16:09cyber knife just in front and cyber knife has won the tvg.com haskell over taber jack christopher
01:16:17finished third the running time one minute 46.24 seconds gunrunners on top of the world
01:16:24come dream with us at three chimneys
01:16:32and it's all tyler's tribe to the final furlong he's putting on another show tonight he is eight
01:16:38lengths in front now it's 10 now it's 12. tyler's tribe pouring it on as they come down to the line
01:16:46he's gonna win by double digits and he stops the clock in 104
01:16:59all right so we had a bunch of other big stakes on saturday at saratoga and over the weekend
01:17:03honestly because they moved the ballerina this year to sunday which i like i like having that
01:17:08big race to look forward to the day after the travers like my feeling on these these big mega
01:17:13cars is they're great but they kind of cannibalize the rest of the racing schedule so i'm glad they
01:17:17put the ballerina on sunday it's a nice sleepy day after the travers and you still have something
01:17:22to get excited about but as for the travers day undercard we've got the forgo we've got the h allen
01:17:26jerkins we've got the personal enzin and the sword dancer all four of those are grade ones we also
01:17:31have the ballston spa which is a grade two for fillies and mares on the turf so in total six
01:17:37graded stakes five grade ones and not to forget we also have the pat o'brien on saturday at delmar
01:17:43as well which i think speaker's corner is going to is going to ship across the country and just
01:17:48avoid flight line by about a week or so um and i think he's probably going to be the horse to beat
01:17:53him there uh i to me i think the most exciting race usually other than the travers on this day
01:17:57is the h allen jerkins because you do get those three year olds where the the trainers have
01:18:02finally thrown in the towel on them becoming routers and are like let's just focus on seven
01:18:07furlongs to a mile or six furlongs and those that's i think when sometimes when you get the
01:18:11most brilliant performances when horses maybe were chasing the triple crown trail a little bit
01:18:16cut back and are now doing what they were born to do we saw it last year with life is good and
01:18:20jackie's warrior that was the race of the year for my money this year looks like we're gonna have a
01:18:25pretty big field gunite son of gun runner who won the amsterdam earlier in this meet is going to be
01:18:30in there conagher who i also mentioned a really really nice fast horse from mike tomlinson is
01:18:35going to be in there uh jack christopher i think he's gonna jack christopher is turning back for
01:18:40this right guys he's not a problem yeah yeah so so jack christopher is going to be in there
01:18:45howling time who i read a pretty good race in the met win uh running son of a gun who's also a gun
01:18:49runner so gun runners gonna be well represented in that race um just looking at the the sword
01:18:54dancer uh we got we have gufo and channel maker adamo nice horses tribune i was hoping that they
01:19:00would run warlike goddess in here uh bill mott hinted after the the last race that now that the
01:19:05flower bowl is a grade two that he might run her in the sword dancer i don't see her in the
01:19:09probables um like i said on sunday the ballerina looks like a really good race with cc and obligatory
01:19:16uh for the forego is going to have john's favorite horse the saratoga horse for the course baby yoda
01:19:21so i know he's going to it's going to be appointment viewing for john uh mind controls
01:19:25in there jackie's warrior obviously is his appointment viewing uh three two zone who was
01:19:29pretty sharp in an allowance win earlier in the in the the meet personal engine looks like we're
01:19:34gonna have a short field but we're gonna get latruska malathot clarier search results so i
01:19:39think it's going to be a power-packed field even if it's a short field so we'll be looking forward
01:19:43to that one um so what do you guys think what what out of what i just said or maybe something
01:19:47off the board what are you looking forward to most on saturday well obviously other than the
01:19:51traverse um you know will the forego forego doesn't figure to be a competitive race as
01:19:55jackie's where it's just so good you know is he gonna go out at one to five and win again
01:20:00but when he was so dominant in the vanderbilt and you know that was the race that we're all saying
01:20:07you know this is the most impressive thing i've seen since you know fill in the blank
01:20:11you know is he going to go out and do that again to run a performance where you're just you know
01:20:17like you're just mesmerized by how great he was so i i mean i was looking forward to that i tell
01:20:22you i'm looking forward to the personal incident as well because i want to see if latruska can
01:20:26bounce back i mean last time we saw on the august 5th she got beat 36 lengths now was that just a
01:20:33complete fluke just like in the you know breeder's cup distaff she got beat a mile um it looks to me
01:20:39that if she faces any kind of pace pressure whatsoever she's vulnerable uh you know that
01:20:44she needs to get that loose on the lead um trip but i remember this time last year we were talking
01:20:50about her as a possible horse of the year contender and you know um as good as claire air is if the
01:20:55real latruska shows up i think latruska could beat her but i have no idea what to expect in there
01:21:00and uh yeah i you know we were jack christopher would have been nice if he won the haskell and
01:21:04then he might be back in the travers and we'd be talking about this great showdown with epicenter
01:21:08jack christopher a couple others but they're doing the right thing he obviously doesn't want to go a
01:21:11mile and a quarter so the breeder's cup classic is out and let's see what he can do in the allen
01:21:15jerkins to me this this weekend really revolves around uh those two great ones that we've been
01:21:22talking about the travers and and the h allen jerkins when you have a horse like jack christopher
01:21:27cutting back in distance uh creative looks like you know he's two for two he's excuse me he won
01:21:32first time out and then almost won the amsterdam uh you know just losing barely to tonight um you
01:21:38know then you have conagra which you mentioned good night and happy jack and and these are all
01:21:42legitimate horses and i'm curious to see how they can go the seven furlongs and i'm also curious to
01:21:47see just how fast they run in comparison to the older boys because you know this is definitely
01:21:52a race that they're all starting to get together and they're gonna bottleneck in the in the
01:21:56breeder's cup sprint um so i'm very curious to see just how the uh the young guns the three-year-olds
01:22:02run in the jerkins time wise against the older horses that will be running later on that day
01:22:07yep and you guys bring up a good point with jackie's warrior too because like this is
01:22:12when he's chasing horse of the year like i don't know i think joel might want to let him run a
01:22:16little bit in the stretch this time you know because i you know this is kind of joel's mo
01:22:20and i think it's very smart in general it's just don't exert your horse any more than they need to
01:22:24especially when you're on horse there's so much the best i don't know you want i think if you
01:22:28want horse of the year you want them to put on a show in this race and go win off my six eight
01:22:3310 lengths which is going to be hard because it's a legitimate grade one field but i just i think
01:22:37this is the day for jackie's warrior to really be allowed to strut his stuff if they want that
01:22:42horse of the year title which i'm sure they do and kirk robinson and shout out to kirk and judy
01:22:46robinson fans and friends of the show and we'll be rooting for them obviously but yeah i think
01:22:51this is the day to let jackie's warrior do his thing but yeah it's gonna be a tremendous
01:22:55tremendous day of racing my hope is that it won't be too chalky it's interesting that you guys bring
01:22:59up about uh about the personal ends and because who's gonna go with latruska like search results
01:23:04went with her in the ogden phipps but then search results was third and was was you know going the
01:23:09wrong direction so it'll be interesting to see how that race is written because i think you're
01:23:13right that if latruska gets loose she still is probably the same horse and is going to run away
01:23:17with the race or not run away with the race but it's going to be tough to reel in um but i think
01:23:21that there's going to be somebody who's going to put some kind of pressure on her seeing what
01:23:25happened in the ogden phipps and seeing what happened in the breeders cup this time so plenty
01:23:29of subplots plenty of grade one races on saturday good luck to all the connections we want great
01:23:34safe racing like we said it's going to be beautiful weather so everybody have a great time
01:23:37at saratoga on saturday and we'll be back next week to wrap it all up the tdn riders room is
01:23:42brought to you by west point thoroughbreds this was the weekend that west point got their 1 000th
01:23:48win happened on sunday at saratoga with phantom smoke who won a turf sprint west point is in their
01:23:5432nd year of racing and has amassed 138 stakes wins 60 graded stakes wins 15 grade one wins and
01:24:01over 63 million dollars in purse earnings you know terry was quoted afterwards saying he's
01:24:07most proud they've never had a horse test positive on a drug test and honestly i you know i i'm not
01:24:13just saying this because they're a sponsor west point has been a longtime champion of the game
01:24:17they do things the right way they deserve the biggest of hat tips for getting to a thousand
01:24:22wins for any owner that's an unbelievable accomplishment and their footprint just grows
01:24:27every single year and they have a great team you know terry does a great job but everybody behind
01:24:31the scenes like i mean tom bell house is his main guy but everybody all of the partners everybody
01:24:37behind west point has done a great job to get to this mark and they really deserve all the kudos
01:24:43and we wish continued success to them and also katie petruniak our associate producer had a story
01:24:47this week talking to the people at west point about their thousandth win and how much that
01:24:52meant to them so definitely go check that out so we're looking forward to the next thousand to
01:24:56terry and the gang we really appreciate you guys and congratulations once again
01:25:01we'll be right back after this message from west point thoroughbreds
01:25:06all the thrills
01:25:10fraction of the bills
01:25:15experience the power of the partnership
01:25:17change your life make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing
01:25:24west point thoroughbreds the gold standard in racing partnerships visit westpointtb.com
01:25:32being a small family business i guess we're part of a dying breed
01:25:35we're really grateful for the people that entrust us we know it's a huge responsibility
01:25:39we're always with your horse every step of the way when it comes to the race
01:25:45every step of the way when it comes to being at the sales ground showing your horses we are with
01:25:50your horse just driving up down the road every day there's not a time that i don't look out and
01:25:54feel a responsibility to the sport the animal the people that come to invest in the game i want to
01:25:59see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can because we do have the most beautiful
01:26:03sport in the world the tdn writers room is brought to you by legacy bloodstock if you
01:26:09think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business could benefit your program
01:26:13give tommy or wendy a call they personally advise on each horse as if they were their
01:26:17own legacy has almost a hundred yearlings catalog for the upcoming keeneland september sale so we'll
01:26:22be taking a look at a few of those in the coming weeks they have two yearlings in book one book one
01:26:27both by gunrunner sponsor their show basically gunrunner is sponsoring the show three children
01:26:32is technically sponsoring the show but gunrunner has been so unbelievable that he takes up all the
01:26:36air uh hip 21 is a gunrunner half sister to multiple stakes when her offering plan remember
01:26:41her in the new york ranks she's also from the family of grade two winner adore the gold hip
01:26:45125 is a gunrunner cult out of stakes winner aquafresh his family also includes multiple
01:26:51graded stakes winner and grade one breeders cup juvenile runner-up repent remember repent guys
01:26:56he was a really nice voice too um so yeah go check out go check out tommy and wendy's
01:27:01tommy and wendy's consignment for at legacy at keeneland september they'll have everything you
01:27:06need and they'll take care of you as a small shop they'll take care of you and give you the personal
01:27:09attention that you deserve this week's remy cartoon we got a couple of guys we're being
01:27:15presented with a giant trojan horse from another barn and the quote is how thoughtful that other
01:27:20trainer sent me a new horse and i'm sure there are plenty of trainers out there maybe you want
01:27:25to get rid of some lower level stock who would disguise it as a trojan horse and send it down
01:27:30to saratoga backstretch shout out to remy as always okay so that's going to do it for this
01:27:34week's edition of the tdn writers room presented by keeneland don't forget i'm sure you couldn't
01:27:38forget but don't forget the keen on september sale begins monday september 12th it runs through
01:27:43september 24th you can check out the catalog which has over 4 100 offerings at the world's
01:27:49yearling sale.com i want to thank phil finley john green our green group guest of the week
01:27:54aaron wellman our producer patty wolf our associate producer katie petruniak and our
01:27:58editors anthony larocca aliga larocca and nathan wilkinson thank you so much for watching enjoy
01:28:03traver's day see you next week