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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:31I'm a correspondent for the TDN, also co-host of Down the Stretch Show and Sirius XM Radio
00:00:36every Saturday morning.
00:00:37What's up, y'all?
00:00:38I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:40I've got a little different vantage point here.
00:00:42Lucy's over here, racked to my left.
00:00:44Sorry, you can't see her, but ready to roll.
00:00:48What's up, y'all?
00:00:49Randy's getting cool.
00:00:52I'm Zoe Kavman with First Racing and XBTV.
00:00:55My dog is nowhere to be seen.
00:00:57I think he's under the bed.
00:00:59So Randy, you all check in from Minnesota.
00:01:01Is it like minus 60 degrees there today?
00:01:03It was really nice for quite a while.
00:01:05As a matter of fact, it was the warmest December since they started keeping records in the
00:01:091800s.
00:01:11And now we're kind of back to normal.
00:01:12It was 10 below the other day.
00:01:15It was below zero for a high.
00:01:17Right now it's like zero.
00:01:18My internet's all screwed up.
00:01:19I've been arguing with the internet guy.
00:01:21I'm all out of sorts here, but ready to roll.
00:01:25Of course, Randy would go back to the 1800s just for the weather as well.
00:01:29I mean, it's already starting.
00:01:30And by the way, I can say, hey, y'all, and it's natural because I'm from Arkansas.
00:01:35I'm allowed to say that, right?
00:01:38Okay.
00:01:39All right.
00:01:40No real major races over last weekend, but there were some interesting performances in
00:01:44horses that I think that we're going to be keeping an eye on as the races get going and
00:01:49get progressing towards the spring.
00:01:52And Conquest Warrior named a TDN Rising Star after winning the ninth race at Gulfstream
00:01:58on Saturday.
00:01:59A colt by City of Light cost $1 million at Keeneland September, trained by Shug McGahee.
00:02:05He didn't blow the field apart, but what a trip he had.
00:02:09This is from the Equibase chart.
00:02:11This is what the chart caller had to say.
00:02:13Conquest Warrior pinched back by foes on both sides at the start, laid off the pace in the
00:02:17three path, waited for room while advancing in the two path around the turn, had to steady
00:02:22slightly turning into the lane, angled out to the eighth path after passing the eighth
00:02:27pole and rallied to be up in the closing stages.
00:02:30It'd be really interesting to see Shug McGahee come up with another really good three year
00:02:34old.
00:02:35He's won the Derby once with Orb.
00:02:36He said he's in no hurry.
00:02:38He's not going to rush the horse into, say, the Holy Bull.
00:02:40An allowance race will possibly be next.
00:02:42And then maybe if he wins that, maybe something like the Fountain of Youth.
00:02:45But guys, certainly a horse to keep an eye on.
00:02:49One million dollar purchase, trained by a great Hall of Fame trainer.
00:02:52I certainly want to see what he does down the road.
00:02:54I'll go first.
00:02:55Ladies first.
00:02:56Here we go.
00:02:57He was good.
00:02:58It was visually impressive.
00:03:00The time, perhaps not the most sparkling, but it is tough to close into a slow pace.
00:03:05They went 24 for the quarter.
00:03:07I think they finished up in 138.57, got it written down.
00:03:13The second rising star in two weeks for City of Light since the Randy should have been
00:03:19DQed Crimson Light last weekend.
00:03:21So that's the second one.
00:03:23And you know who he's bred by.
00:03:26In part, DJ Stable, Len Green, here to save you money with the Green Group.
00:03:31Saving you money on taxes.
00:03:33He's a breeder on this one with a couple of other people, including Needham and Betts.
00:03:37Very, very impressive.
00:03:39Really impressive.
00:03:40Battle tested.
00:03:41Yeah.
00:03:42Well, I mean, obviously you wouldn't be surprised to see the horse go on and progress.
00:03:47He's got the right teacher and Shook McGahee.
00:03:50I'm not prepared yet to even put him like in my top five or six or seven or eight Kentucky
00:03:58Derby contenders at this point.
00:04:00And here's why.
00:04:01Yes, he got a trip that was, you know, it was obvious when you watched the start, especially
00:04:08if you watched the head on.
00:04:10He was squeezed back, leaving the gate.
00:04:12But here's the thing.
00:04:13He kind of did it to himself.
00:04:15Okay.
00:04:16This is the second.
00:04:18This was the second career start for Conquest Warrior.
00:04:21And he broke a little slowly both times.
00:04:25And as we all know, when horses break a little slowly from the gate and they lose their spot,
00:04:31they tend to get pinched back a little bit when the horses on either side of them close
00:04:36in on that open space and then they wind up shooting out the back end.
00:04:40He doesn't have any early speed looking at his very first start at Aqueduct when he ran
00:04:45against a very, very fast two-year-old sprinter from Rick Dutrow's barn.
00:04:50And his final, his closing quarter in the race at Gulfstream, the track wasn't extremely
00:04:56fast.
00:04:57He closed in a little over 26 seconds.
00:05:00You would like to see him come home even a little faster than he did.
00:05:04So yeah, I mean, and also about the pace.
00:05:08This is something to keep in mind.
00:05:10Anybody who's handicapping Gulfstream Park races right now, they have changed the way
00:05:14they time one-mile races at Gulfstream Park, okay?
00:05:19Even back, you know, when they very first redid the racetrack at Gulfstream and they
00:05:23started running a one-turn mile, the run-up was extremely short because there's no room
00:05:28way back there in the back of the chute going a mile.
00:05:31But the timing became so problematic of the one-mile races that last November, Equibase
00:05:37changed the way those races were timed.
00:05:39And now it's time from the gate, just like they do in Europe and elsewhere, with zero
00:05:44run-up.
00:05:46As soon as the gate completely opens up, the timing begins, even before the horses leave
00:05:51the starting gate.
00:05:53So you're going to have extremely slow opening fractions in Gulfstream Park one-mile races.
00:05:58This one was 24 flat, but it's misleading because they went to half and 46 and change.
00:06:03So I think he actually had some pace in front of him.
00:06:06Promising debut, but I want to see more.
00:06:08Well, a horse that we talk about every single time he runs, and I can't talk about this
00:06:13horse enough, Zoe.
00:06:14The Chosen Vron, once again, you know, look, he's not the best sprinter in the country.
00:06:18He finished fifth in the Breeders' Cup sprint.
00:06:21But you know, everybody loves these blue-collar horses.
00:06:25And he did it again in the Cal Cup sprint last Saturday.
00:06:29It was his 15th win from 20 starts, 14 of them are stakes races.
00:06:33He's won eight straight versus Calbretts.
00:06:35He's a gelding.
00:06:36He's going to be around for a while.
00:06:39Zoe, what kind of fan favorite has he turned into out your way?
00:06:43He's such a cool dude.
00:06:44I mean, he really, really is.
00:06:46And full credit going to Ian Kraljak, Eric Kraljak, excuse me, that's the dad, for giving
00:06:52him the time when he needed last year.
00:06:56I can remember him coming into the paddock and looking at him.
00:06:58And he won by a nose that day and thinking, God, that just doesn't look good.
00:07:02But he won in spite of it.
00:07:04And Eric knew that he wasn't on the top of his game and put him on the shelf for a couple
00:07:08of months, gave him the time he needed.
00:07:10And he came back with aplomb.
00:07:12Like, he's just a really cool horse.
00:07:15And, you know, looking back through his stats, he broke his maiden first out as a favorite
00:07:21with Johnny Veerboord by six and a half lengths.
00:07:24And you don't often see Johnny Veer riding for Eric Kraljak.
00:07:27So they knew this horse was a good one from the get go.
00:07:30It's just a really cool story.
00:07:32John and Dorita Sondraker et al. and the other owners own this guy.
00:07:37And he's their baby.
00:07:39And he just keeps going and going and going.
00:07:41Long may he carry on.
00:07:43Yeah, the story behind the horse is just so cool.
00:07:46I mean, the owners were involved in the mare.
00:07:49It was a mare named Tiz Molly.
00:07:52And I think they paid $35,000 for her or something like that.
00:07:55And she started her career with a couple of big wins.
00:07:57I think her second win, she got an 85 buyer speed figure.
00:08:00They got a lot of big money offers for her at that time.
00:08:03She was a Kentucky bred.
00:08:04They chose not to sell.
00:08:06And four races later, she suffers a career-ending injury.
00:08:09They were not in the breeding business at all.
00:08:12But three of the four partners, including Eric Kraljak, decided to make her into a broodmare.
00:08:18And Kraljak's words, we'll play the breeding lottery, right?
00:08:23The first foal couldn't run at all, right?
00:08:27The second foal could run very little, was a claiming horse.
00:08:31So they decided to put Tiz Molly into a sale and just get rid of her.
00:08:35The top bid was $1,200.
00:08:38At that point, the chosen brawn had just turned into his yearling year.
00:08:44He was by a $3,500 stud.
00:08:46They didn't know how good he was going to be, but $1,200, I mean, that was insulting.
00:08:51So they decided to hang on to the mare.
00:08:53And lo and behold, here's the chosen brawn earning over a million dollars in his career
00:08:59and being an absolute winning machine.
00:09:03The two subsequent foals out of the mare haven't even raced, but they've still at least got
00:09:07her, I think, Tiz Molly.
00:09:08And it's just a great story all the way around.
00:09:10And Eric Kraljak, a former private investigator, he's a great story as well.
00:09:15But what a good job he's done with the chosen brawn.
00:09:18Well, maybe you guys don't care about the Pasco stakes at Tampa Bay Downs, but I do.
00:09:26And here's why.
00:09:27I'm a New Jersey guy, and I'm the number one shill in the country for New Jersey breads.
00:09:32And we got a good one.
00:09:33And I love this horse's name, the coolest name, Bookum Dano.
00:09:37Won the Pasco by 12 and a half lengths.
00:09:39He's a newly turned three-year-old, got an 86 buyer.
00:09:43And Randy, they don't have Derby fever.
00:09:45As a matter of fact, they said they have no intentions whatsoever of looking at the Derby.
00:09:50Instead, they're going to the Saudi Derby in February with a 1.5 million dollar purse.
00:09:56And it would just be a cool thing for the poor state of New Jersey, where the foal crop
00:10:00is so small every year because there's so little racing in the state to produce a horse
00:10:05that would win a race like that.
00:10:06I'm a fan of this horse and I'll be rooting for him.
00:10:08So they do have Derby fever.
00:10:10They just have Saudi Derby fever.
00:10:11Saudi Derby fever.
00:10:13And it's a perfect setup for them if he makes the trip okay and all that, because I think
00:10:17it's a one-turn mile, the Saudi Derby, for a million and a half dollars.
00:10:24It's kind of a quirky racetrack surface.
00:10:25But yeah, I mean, the horse is obviously extremely talented.
00:10:29The race at Tampa, the Pasco, turned out to be a terrible field behind him.
00:10:34I mean, Wes Saratoga was in there who had won a great at stakes at Churchill, but he
00:10:38didn't really show up.
00:10:39He got a pretty good trip and didn't really show up.
00:10:41And so there's really nothing running at him at all.
00:10:44But the horse has kind of funky action as well, but he just gets the job done.
00:10:49And as a sprinter, he's been pretty, pretty impressive.
00:10:55$15,000 as a yearling.
00:10:58You know, Bukkum Dano, there have been four horses since 1983 that have actually been
00:11:03called Bukkum Dano.
00:11:05That's from Hawaii.
00:11:06A lot of Hawaii 5.0 fans out there, huh?
00:11:08Yeah.
00:11:09So four already.
00:11:10And I thought the most interesting comment came from trainer Derek Ryan, saying he had
00:11:15absolutely no interest in going to the Derby.
00:11:18Been there after what happened last time.
00:11:19Well, he was third last time with Yonaguska.
00:11:23So I mean, he ran well, but he was third in the Preakness too.
00:11:26I can't understand that, but he knows his horse, knows where he wants to go, got no
00:11:31interest whatsoever in going to Churchill Downs.
00:11:33So I am absolutely rooting for Bukkum Dano.
00:11:37So Bill, Zoe teases me for going down a rabbit hole.
00:11:39She has looked up the history of the name Bukkum Dano.
00:11:43That's like the ultimate rabbit hole to go down.
00:11:46Yeah, Zoe, you're giving Randy one for his money.
00:11:51Next challenge is to somehow bring Oliver Wendell Holmes into one of your answers.
00:11:56So anyways, we'll be watching Bukkum Dano.
00:12:00Good luck to him as he heads off to Saudi Arabia.
00:12:03By the way, the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:12:05Well, the Keeneland January sale is in the books.
00:12:07And now it's time to look forward to April.
00:12:10The 2024 April Horses of Racing Age sale will be held Friday, April 26th, after the races
00:12:15on closing day of the Spring Meet.
00:12:17And tickets go on sale February 20th for the Keeneland Spring Meet, which runs from April
00:12:215th to the 26th.
00:12:22We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:12:26At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:12:35Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:12:43Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:12:47Not for our sake, but for theirs, for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:12:56The TDN Writers Room, brought to you as always by the Fast Sires of Windstar Farm, the sponsor
00:13:00of our weekly fastest horse of the week, Spotlight Sire this week, no surprise.
00:13:05It's Constitution.
00:13:06What a week he had.
00:13:07First of all, he was named the gold medal winner in TDN's Popular Value Sires column.
00:13:12Chris McGrath wrote, Taffet has arranged quite a race for the eventual succession, but for
00:13:16now, Constitution appears to be the heir to catch.
00:13:20And breeder Paul Manganaro said, to have access to Constitution at his stud fee is like stealing.
00:13:27Also, Constitution, the only sire with three colts on the current TDN Derby Top 12.
00:13:33They would be rising stars Born Noble and Parchment Part, along with Catching Freedom.
00:13:37Constitution, that bargain that Paul Manganaro was talking about, he stands on Windstar Farm
00:13:42for $110,000.
00:13:45Now the fastest horse of the week, and we've already talked about him.
00:13:47The Chosen Brawn from his win in the Cow Cup Sprint, over, by the way, a very fast horse
00:13:52in Brickyard Ride, a 99 buyer speed figure for the Chosen Brawn, and that race tops the
00:13:58week's last five buyer speed figures.
00:14:01Now talking about consistency, 98, 96, 98, 100, and now the 99.
00:14:15Well, there is some interesting news out of Churchill Downs this week, and I think pretty
00:14:18welcome news.
00:14:19The Kentucky Derby purse was raised to $5 million.
00:14:23It was three, which is a big purse, but a lot of people, myself included, thought that
00:14:29not only the Derby, but the Triple Crown purses as a whole needed to be raised.
00:14:35If they're supposed to be the most important races we run, you should have the purses reflect
00:14:40as much.
00:14:41The Preakness right now is at $1.5 million.
00:14:44That's the same purse as the Arkansas Derby, a Kentucky Derby prep.
00:14:48Churchill Downs has so much money, they might as well have raised the purse to $50 million,
00:14:53but I'm glad to see they did it, but I also think that Belmont and whoever is going to
00:14:58run the Preakness or run Pimico in the future should look to do this same thing.
00:15:04These are the most important races.
00:15:06Let's not have a system where they've got the 18th and 19th best purses out there.
00:15:11Belmont, by the way, though, did raise their purse for the Belmont coming up this year
00:15:14in Saratoga to $2 million, so we're heading in the right direction, but with all that
00:15:19money out there, come on, Trax, let's pay up.
00:15:22Good job by Churchill Downs making it $5 million.
00:15:24If you go back and look at the history of the purses of the three Triple Crown races,
00:15:27typically the Preakness sort of reacts to the Belmont Stakes.
00:15:32When they raise the purse for the Belmont Stakes, they'll in turn raise the purse for
00:15:35the Preakness, so we'll see what happens there.
00:15:38I got to tell you, I mean, you know, kudos to CDI for raising the purse of the Kentucky
00:15:42Derby because they didn't have to.
00:15:46Horsemen don't run in the Kentucky Derby because of the purse.
00:15:48They run in the Kentucky Derby, obviously, because of the tradition of the race, what
00:15:52it does, you know, just for the reputation of the people that win it.
00:15:57Needless to say, the stallion prospects also are greatly enhanced by winning the Kentucky
00:16:02Derby.
00:16:03So, I mean, $3 million was just fine as far as Churchill Downs was concerned, I would
00:16:08think.
00:16:09I'm not sure I would have done it if I was in charge of CDI.
00:16:12I might have put that $2 million somewhere else, but I mean, more power to them.
00:16:16I mean, the purses at Kentucky are just astronomical, all the way across the board.
00:16:23And $5 million for the Kentucky Derby is a nice, nice round number, Zoe.
00:16:30It's not often we're applauding Churchill Downs on this podcast, but that was very well
00:16:35done by them.
00:16:37Personally, I think all three of them should be $5 million.
00:16:40We need incentive for people to run in the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes.
00:16:44But hey, what about the girls?
00:16:47What about the girls?
00:16:48The Oaks is $1.5 million.
00:16:50The Oaks should be $3 million.
00:16:52If they raise the Derby to $5 million, the Oaks should be $3 million, in my personal
00:16:58opinion.
00:16:59I mean, why isn't that important?
00:17:02Come on, guys.
00:17:04I totally agree.
00:17:07The purses for those races need to be raised as well.
00:17:11Well, after you just said nice things about Churchill Downs, Zoe, I bet you're not going
00:17:15to say nice things about this.
00:17:18Here we go again.
00:17:21Another move to Stymie Bob Baffert's efforts to not only win the Kentucky Derby, but to
00:17:27be able to be the trainer of horses that are eyeing the Kentucky Derby.
00:17:32They came out in their, I don't know where the hell they, they didn't put out a press
00:17:37release or anything like that, but it may be in the condition book that for any horses
00:17:41trained by a banned trainer, which is Baffert and Baffert alone, they must be moved to a
00:17:46new trainer by January 29th or else they cannot run in the Kentucky Derby.
00:17:51We're recording this on a Wednesday.
00:17:53It's 12 days from now.
00:17:54But once again, we have, they make a rule for Baffert and then they, what we say is
00:18:01appropriate, they move the goalposts.
00:18:04This is 30 days earlier than last year.
00:18:07So he's got to do some, a lot of reshuffling the deck.
00:18:11Nobody's heard from Baffert so far as I know about what his plans are, Zoe, but I assume
00:18:16it'll be the same thing, Tim Yaktin.
00:18:18But come on, Churchill, I mean, enough is enough.
00:18:22Enough was enough five decisions ago.
00:18:26And now they do one more thing to him.
00:18:28And you know, I think you've said before, Zoe, you're not sure they're ever going to
00:18:32let him back in the Kentucky Derby.
00:18:33I don't know about that, but you know, they need to give the guy a break at this point.
00:18:39It's personal.
00:18:40I mean, that is the heads and tails of it.
00:18:43It's a personal vendetta against Bob Baffert.
00:18:47He served his time.
00:18:48Whether you think he was guilty or innocent of anything, he's done with that.
00:18:54They are squarely moving the goalposts and that's not fair.
00:18:59I'll tell you where I believe those horses are going in 12 days time.
00:19:04Nowhere.
00:19:05I think they're going to stay in the barn of Bob Baffert and run in the Preakness and
00:19:10the Belmont and the and the Travers and the Pacific Classic.
00:19:16That's what I think.
00:19:17And if I was Bob, that's what I would be doing.
00:19:19Zoe, have you have you heard any rumblings about that or is this just you speculating?
00:19:24This is me purely speculating.
00:19:29You know what was really interesting?
00:19:30I don't know if you heard.
00:19:32I'm going to like give a little throw out to Nick Lux podcast, but he had Ripoli on
00:19:36there and Ripoli was saying that it's what about Bob's owners?
00:19:41What about Bob's owners?
00:19:42He's like, I would never have moved my horses from Todd Pletcher if Todd was ruled out of
00:19:47the Derby.
00:19:48Now, when push comes to shove and five million dollars is on the line, you know that that
00:19:51makes a big difference.
00:19:52But according to Ripoli, at least a couple of weeks ago, if he was one of Bob's owners,
00:19:57he would not move his horses.
00:20:01I don't think they're going to go anywhere.
00:20:02I think they're going to stay with Bob.
00:20:04Interesting.
00:20:05Very interesting.
00:20:06There's a lot of things we could say about this whole deal.
00:20:10To me, I think the extension of the ban of Baffert from two years, which was open ended,
00:20:18by the way, now to three years, which is also open ended.
00:20:22I don't remember the exact wording the CDI used, but it was just I'm just kind of paraphrasing.
00:20:28They felt like that.
00:20:29I think their words were that Baffert wasn't, you know, sufficiently apologetic or whatever
00:20:35it was.
00:20:36Right.
00:20:37He hadn't taken full responsibility, maybe.
00:20:41I think that had everything to do with the fact that Amir Zidan still has lawsuits pending
00:20:50appeals now against Churchill Downs for the Medina Spirit 2021 Kentucky Derby.
00:20:56And Churchill has spent, as has Baffert, as has Zidan, a ton of money on legal fees.
00:21:03And I think it pisses Churchill Downs off that they're still having to defend themselves
00:21:08in court and spend money on that.
00:21:10And I think that's why they feel like that that Baffert and company have not been taken
00:21:17sufficient responsibility.
00:21:19As far as this latest moving of the goalposts from Feb. 28 last year to Jan. 29 this year,
00:21:25in my opinion, I don't like it, but the reason why you're just now hearing about it is strategic
00:21:32because last year, Baffert challenged this in court.
00:21:36And as we all know, the wheels of justice tend to move pretty slowly.
00:21:40And by the time the judge finally got around to ruling on it, the judge said that in part,
00:21:47one of the reasons why the judge denied Baffert's appeal was that at that point, plenty of derby
00:21:53points had already accrued.
00:21:56And if you were to retroactively give Baffert's sources the derby points that they had been
00:22:01denied, then you would be bumping other innocent owners and trainers down the derby list when
00:22:07they did nothing wrong.
00:22:09OK, I think that's why Churchill waited so long to announce the changing of this date,
00:22:15Jan. 29, because it's going to it's exactly the same scenario.
00:22:20If Baffert sues, then it's going to take time to wind through the court and you're going
00:22:24to have the same situation if a judge hears it in March or April.
00:22:29And they're going to say this really, Bob's caught between a rock and a hard place here.
00:22:35And there's really nothing else he can do at this point except to just swallow and we'll
00:22:40see what the owners choose to do.
00:22:42Nysos, by the way, is not owned by Amr Zidan.
00:22:45He's owned by Charles and Susan Chu.
00:22:48Nysos is number one right now in the in the TDN top 12, arguably, you know, yearly Kentucky
00:22:56Derby favorite, although I think it should be fierceness.
00:22:58But it's going to be very interesting to see what happens.
00:23:02And Susan Chu from the Burma Corp absolutely loves Bob like he is her only trainer.
00:23:09So it'll be interesting and we're not going to have to wait long to find out.
00:23:14The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders
00:23:18Association. One more reminder that the 2024 PA Sire PA Bred Stallion Series nominations
00:23:24for foals of 22 being taken right now.
00:23:27The $200 fee is due by Jan.
00:23:3031. If you wait till after Jan.
00:23:3231, the fee goes up to $500.
00:23:35Meanwhile, the 2024 PHBA annual stallion season auction on Thoroughbred.com opened on
00:23:43Monday. It'll continue to next Monday, the 21st.
00:23:46The list of 100 plus seasons available represents Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York,
00:23:51Florida, Kentucky. If you're breeding in 2024, take a look at this.
00:23:55Foal and register in Pennsylvania.
00:23:57Pennsylvania paid $30 million in state incentives in 2023, so don't get left out.
00:24:03If you're interested further in breeding in Pennsylvania, you can go to the 2024 Stallion
00:24:08and Boarding Farm Directory, which is available at the PHBA website at www.pabred.com.
00:24:19PA Bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:24:22The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:24:28Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins at Flair.
00:24:34Caravelle in the Breeders' Cup turf sprint.
00:24:37Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state bred program in the country bar none.
00:24:43The best Breeders' Awards and Stallion Awards in the country.
00:24:46The best two-year-old by legendary sire Quality Road.
00:24:50In the bank, $1.5 million.
00:24:51Very, very impressive debut.
00:24:54Cantering Home could not have been more impressive.
00:24:58Coast-to-coast to the American Pharaoh.
00:25:00He's the real deal. Undefeated and unchallenged at two.
00:25:04He's just too good! He wins the Breeders' Cup Juvenile! Corniche!
00:25:12Corniche.
00:25:17It's Eclipse Award time and what better time to look back on a past winner, now it's stud.
00:25:22And where better to start with than the 2021 Eclipse Champion Juvenile, Corniche.
00:25:26Corniche was an unbeaten dual Group 1 winning champion by Quality Road.
00:25:31He was a $1.5 million sales topper.
00:25:34And his Breeders' Cup Juvenile time at Del Mar was four-fifths of a second faster
00:25:38than the only other Juvenile held at Del Mar won by Good Magic in 2017.
00:25:43Zoe, Kevin, I know you work with Marrette Farrell, a Bloodstock agent,
00:25:46in the purchase of this horse for $1.5 million.
00:25:50It's now going on to a stallion career.
00:25:52What can you tell us?
00:25:53I mean, honestly, I could wax lyrical for about the next 45 minutes about Corniche,
00:25:58especially from the first day we saw him when we worked the two-year-old sales.
00:26:02It was April two-year-old sale.
00:26:04I'm in the grandstand, Marrette's down on the turn
00:26:08and we have Tesha Von Blucher on the backside
00:26:11and I watched him work and I was just in wow.
00:26:14He just had a stride like you wouldn't believe.
00:26:17Now that was on the safe track. He showed what he can do on dirt.
00:26:21He was never headed as a two-year-old.
00:26:23Now he had some niggling issues that kept him pretty much out of his three-year-old season
00:26:27and then he was retired.
00:26:28But as a two-year-old on dirt, never headed, not once, just the most beautiful mover.
00:26:35I mean, he's by Quality Road, one of the best sires in the world, in my opinion.
00:26:40And the fact that we only saw him run on the dirt,
00:26:43I think he's going to be a great sire on turf as well.
00:26:46Sky's the limit. He had length, depth,
00:26:49and he was cat-like, probably one of the most athletic horses I've ever seen.
00:26:53Cornish's first falls are arriving this week.
00:26:56He stands at Colemore for $25,000.
00:27:00Meanwhile, it is time for the Green Group guest of the week.
00:27:03The TD and Riders are brought to you by the Green Group,
00:27:06a tax accounting and advisory firm that specializes in thoroughbred industry
00:27:11and especially specializes, is that redundant, in saving you money on your taxes.
00:27:18And we welcome in now our Green Group guest of the week.
00:27:21His name is Alan Foreman.
00:27:22He's got fancy titles like General Counsel of the State Horseman's Association.
00:27:26He's a member of the Maryland Racing Thoroughbred Operating Authority,
00:27:30but let's just call him Mr. Maryland Racing
00:27:32because nobody has their finger on the pulse about what's going on in Maryland,
00:27:37more so than Alan Foreman.
00:27:38And lots of big news out of Maryland within the last week or so.
00:27:43I'll try to keep it brief here because we want to get right to Alan.
00:27:45There's been some problems in the state.
00:27:48The Stronach Group slash First Racing
00:27:50was not necessarily committed to the future of racing in Maryland.
00:27:54So the government got together and put together
00:27:56what they call the Maryland Thoroughbred Operating Authority.
00:27:59That's a mouthful, Maryland Thoroughbred Operating Authority.
00:28:02They came out with an advisory which calls for closing Pimlico,
00:28:06rebuilding, excuse me, closing Laurel, rebuilding Pimlico,
00:28:11and then building a training center at a site to be unknown, not yet known.
00:28:16Alan, exciting times for Maryland Racing as far as this comes to be.
00:28:20But two-part question, what obstacles or legislative hurdles remain to be clear?
00:28:27And also, where is the money for this coming from?
00:28:31So just a little bit of history, if I could, Bill.
00:28:34This is an outgrowth of a concept plan that was proposed for Maryland five years ago.
00:28:40The Stronach Group had sought to move the praetorists from Pimlico to Laurel
00:28:47to shutter Pimlico because they felt that there was no commitment from the state.
00:28:51And they certainly weren't going to improve Pimlico and it needed massive work.
00:28:56And so the city of Baltimore brought a lawsuit against the Stronach Group
00:29:00to condemn Pimlico and the praetorists through eminent domain and to take control.
00:29:07There was an effort to settle that lawsuit.
00:29:09I participated in the small group that was asked to help to negotiate a settlement.
00:29:13And what came out of that was a concept plan, originally,
00:29:17that would completely rebuild Pimlico, but only for purposes of the praetorists
00:29:22and perhaps one other small meet, but particularly the praetorists.
00:29:26Pimlico would be commercially redeveloped,
00:29:29and racing would be consolidated in Maryland at Laurel with Laurel Park being rebuilt.
00:29:36The cost of that project was estimated to be $375 million
00:29:41financed through the issuance of bonds by the Maryland Stadium Authority, municipal bonds,
00:29:47and through industry money, not state money, primarily industry money
00:29:50and some money from the city of Baltimore, would pay for the debt service on the bonds.
00:29:57That was the plan for Maryland.
00:29:58It ran into substantial roadblocks, COVID, supply chain issues,
00:30:05rising costs, interest rates, and a massive tax issue related to Laurel
00:30:10that made it very difficult to even consider improvements of Laurel.
00:30:15But then when the Maryland Stadium Authority went in to investigate the Laurel property,
00:30:19they determined that Laurel was probably in as bad,
00:30:23if not worse shape than Pimlico, and that the cost to rebuild Laurel was double what we estimated.
00:30:29So the project completely stalled,
00:30:32and Maryland was continuing to wrestle with what the future would look like.
00:30:37One of the ideas that was floated was the idea of creating
00:30:41what is now the Maryland Thoroughbred Racetrack Operating Authority.
00:30:45The legislature created that authority in its session last year,
00:30:49and the authority was given the power to, number one, take over the tracks if necessary,
00:30:54take over the tracks if the Strana Group intended to substantially reduce live racing in Maryland,
00:31:02but also to investigate and to take over the plan that it stalled,
00:31:07look for better options, which led to, actually,
00:31:11Laurel not being considered as a racing operation because of its cost.
00:31:16Consolidation at Pimlico was the hub,
00:31:19and because Pimlico is not big enough to construct a training center
00:31:23that would complement the Pimlico property,
00:31:25but unbelievably, Pimlico became the hub property for this project,
00:31:31and working with the stadium authority and other experts that we worked with over the past six months,
00:31:37we have a plan to go forward,
00:31:40and it is within range of the cost of the bonds that were initially authorized by the Maryland General Assembly.
00:31:47So that's the genesis of this project going forward,
00:31:51and it's a mountain of work that's been done in the last six months,
00:31:54but now the rubber hits the road.
00:31:57Wow, that's an awful lot of work.
00:32:01Obviously, I like Maryland.
00:32:02I'm wearing my Maryland jumper right here.
00:32:05Everyone can see my Preakness jumper here, but what is your actual role in this?
00:32:10How much input are you allowed to have?
00:32:13Are you there purely on the law side of things?
00:32:16Do you have an actual say in where things should be moved?
00:32:21Like, what input are you having into this other than like holding the law?
00:32:27Well, actually, I'm not doing the legal part of it.
00:32:30That's for somebody who's got a higher pay grade than I do to do,
00:32:34but I've been intimately involved in the project since day one,
00:32:39when we started with the negotiations over the concept plan.
00:32:43The MTHA, the organization that I represent,
00:32:46and I'm their representative on the authority,
00:32:49has been working with the architectural team,
00:32:51the design team, and the Maryland Stadium Authority for the past four years.
00:32:55The problem is the project has changed so many times
00:32:58that it had become, particularly for the stadium authority
00:33:01and the design team, very frustrating,
00:33:04and I think they probably felt that we were at a complete roadblock
00:33:09with how to carry the project forward.
00:33:12Just as intimately involved at the authority level,
00:33:15working at every aspect of it with the design.
00:33:18Well, there'll be a formal design team.
00:33:20I assume it'll be the same as who has worked with us up until this point,
00:33:23Populous, which is, I think,
00:33:26the best design team in the world for these kinds of venues.
00:33:30Working with Crossroads, who were the consultants
00:33:32who were brought in to do the economic analysis,
00:33:35working with Greg Cross, the chair of the authority,
00:33:37who's just been spectacular, and the other members of the authority,
00:33:41some of whom you may know, Tom Rooney,
00:33:44who is president and CEO of the National Thoroughbred Racing Association,
00:33:48but an owner and breeder in Maryland,
00:33:50and there are a number of other really distinguished members
00:33:53of the Maryland community who've been working on this,
00:33:55but we are intimately involved in this on a day-to-day basis,
00:34:00and as many people know, I've been living Maryland racing for over 40 years,
00:34:04and it's the one thing that's really dearest to my heart,
00:34:08and to see a project that may cement the future of Maryland racing
00:34:13for decades to come, you can't top that.
00:34:18Alan, one of the angles to this, or one of the side stories,
00:34:21is the Preakness and the Black-Eyed Susan.
00:34:23Now, under this plan, the Stronach Group is going to leave town,
00:34:27pack their bags and leave town.
00:34:29A new organization, which apparently is going to be structured
00:34:32along the lines of the New York Racing Association, would take over,
00:34:36but the Stronach Group is going to hold on to the intellectual property
00:34:41that is the Black-Eyed Susan and the Preakness,
00:34:43and then lease it back to the new racetrack owner or operator.
00:34:49I think a lot of people are asking the same question.
00:34:50I don't quite understand how that's going to work.
00:34:52What kind of money might change hands?
00:34:55The betting handle on Preakness Day, does that go to Stronach?
00:34:58Does it go to the new authority?
00:35:00Have all those details been worked out?
00:35:02And if so, what does it look like in a broader sense?
00:35:05So there's a framework for an agreement,
00:35:07what you would, I guess, consider to be a term sheet
00:35:09that is now being negotiated between the state and the Stronach Group,
00:35:12and I think it's estimated that that agreement will be finalized
00:35:16within the next 30 to 60 days.
00:35:19It's critical that that agreement be finalized
00:35:21because we have started the legislative session.
00:35:24Legislative leadership, the governor,
00:35:26are going to be very interested in the outcome of those negotiations,
00:35:29but I think both sides are confident
00:35:31that they will come to a final written agreement
00:35:35because the ink is not dry on this deal
00:35:38and there are still matters to be negotiated.
00:35:40But the framework is that
00:35:43because the Stronachs own the rights to the Preakness,
00:35:48they will license the event to the state of Maryland,
00:35:51and the state of Maryland will, through the not-for-profit,
00:35:55will run the Preakness, okay?
00:35:56The division of revenues is being negotiated.
00:36:00It will be a fair agreement to both sides,
00:36:03one that I think will be in both parties' best interest going forward.
00:36:07Can you talk about the new training centers you're talking about?
00:36:11I gather there are three places that you're looking at right now?
00:36:16There are three locations that have made
00:36:19what I would consider to be the cut for further investigation.
00:36:23We've looked at 10 properties.
00:36:25We've been scouring the state for potential training sites
00:36:28for the better part of two years,
00:36:30working with the Stadium Authority and the design team.
00:36:33And the reason for that is when it became apparent
00:36:37that Laurel was probably not feasible for racing
00:36:40and were as a training center,
00:36:42and knowing that Pimlico is not big enough
00:36:45to consolidate Maryland Racing,
00:36:47it's a much smaller piece of property,
00:36:49the footprint just doesn't allow for consolidation,
00:36:52we had to start thinking about the possibility
00:36:55of a world-class training center.
00:36:58There are three sites that have made the final cut,
00:37:02although it doesn't, I guess, foreclose the possibility
00:37:05that another site could come online,
00:37:07but they are Bowie Racecourse,
00:37:10what was then the Bowie Training Center for years,
00:37:12but no longer exists as a training center.
00:37:15And under the original concept plan,
00:37:16the Stronachs were going to donate that property
00:37:19to the city of Bowie to be used as ball fields
00:37:22for Bowie State University,
00:37:23which didn't have adequate athletic facilities.
00:37:26We've been able to claw that property back
00:37:28through the legislation that created the authority last year,
00:37:31but it's a project there that has pros and it has cons,
00:37:37and there are difficulties with that site.
00:37:39We also are looking at two other sites.
00:37:41One is Shamrock Farm, which is owned by the Rooney family.
00:37:45It's where the Rooney family's breeding operation
00:37:48in Maryland was for decades,
00:37:50but we had heard actually
00:37:52through one of the Maryland horse breeders
00:37:54that they were closing down the breeding operation,
00:37:57and so the authority inquired of the family
00:37:59as to whether or not it would be willing to allow
00:38:02that property to be considered as a training center,
00:38:05and that is currently being investigated.
00:38:07It's some idyllic property.
00:38:09Its location to Pimlico is ideal.
00:38:13There are pros and cons with that location,
00:38:15and then there's one other site that is north of Baltimore,
00:38:18about 20 miles in Aberdeen off the Susquehanna River.
00:38:21It's a commercial development project underway right now,
00:38:24mostly commercial warehouses,
00:38:27but it's a beautiful piece of property,
00:38:29but it would force the horsemen out,
00:38:32most of whom live in the Laurel area
00:38:34towards Washington, D.C., southern Maryland,
00:38:37many of them to have to relocate
00:38:39to the northern portion of Maryland,
00:38:41and that could present challenges.
00:38:44We looked at Fair Hill. We looked at Timonium.
00:38:46We looked at the Naval Academy Dairy Farm.
00:38:49We looked at Laurel.
00:38:51There were about 10 locations.
00:38:53It's not an easy project to find the land that works for this
00:38:57and that wouldn't be community opposition
00:39:00or political opposition or you name it,
00:39:03but we've narrowed down to three,
00:39:05and the critical part of the project
00:39:07is that while Pimlico is being constructed,
00:39:10we also have to construct the training center
00:39:12because they are going to go in tandem.
00:39:14You can't have one without the other,
00:39:16and during the period of construction,
00:39:17we will continue to race at Laurel
00:39:20probably for the next four years
00:39:21until the project is completed.
00:39:23What about, I gather there's a problem
00:39:25with housing for the backstretch workers?
00:39:29Housing is a major challenge,
00:39:31and when we did the original concept plan,
00:39:34we knew that housing was going to be a problem
00:39:36whether it was Laurel
00:39:37because the housing at Laurel needed to be rebuilt
00:39:40or whether we were going to do any at Pimlico,
00:39:43and that's before the concept of the training center came about.
00:39:46It's expensive. It's necessary.
00:39:50We've got to...
00:39:53Backstretch housing has to be a part of this project
00:39:56where this project cannot be completed.
00:39:58I think there was some concern
00:40:00after the meeting we had with the horsemen last week
00:40:02that we were not looking at housing
00:40:04for the backstretch workers.
00:40:05That is absolutely not the case.
00:40:08There are many challenges
00:40:09when you're building housing in a community,
00:40:13and you have to work through those problems.
00:40:15We are working through them, and I'm confident
00:40:18that the project will include housing
00:40:20both for Pimlico and the training center.
00:40:22The unique thing about Pimlico is
00:40:24because there's going to be a redevelopment of the area
00:40:27beyond the Pimlico footprint,
00:40:30we're looking at incorporating backstretch housing
00:40:32in that redeveloped footprint
00:40:34that we're engaged with the city of Baltimore
00:40:38and other groups in the area,
00:40:40and I think that could be a really exciting opportunity
00:40:43for backstretch housing.
00:40:45Alan, I want to switch gears here on you
00:40:47and move on to subject number two.
00:40:49You were recently named as the ombudsman
00:40:51for Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Authority.
00:40:55Just basically tell me what that means.
00:40:57What is your job doing that?
00:40:59My job is to interface between the industry stakeholders,
00:41:05the individual, what we call the covered persons,
00:41:07and HISA and HIWU.
00:41:09I am the person that the groups in the industry,
00:41:13individuals in the industry can turn to
00:41:15when they need advice, when they need direction,
00:41:18when they need to understand the process,
00:41:20when they need to understand the rules,
00:41:23when they need somebody to advocate for them,
00:41:25whether it's individual or groups,
00:41:27and to work with HISA and HIWU
00:41:32on necessary policy changes, rule changes,
00:41:35concerns that I'm hearing that I can convey to them
00:41:39and to essentially be a buffer for both sides
00:41:42and in some instances be able to mediate cases
00:41:46where there have been charges brought against horsemen
00:41:48in an effort to try to bring them
00:41:49to a quick and satisfactory resolution.
00:41:52And how's that been going?
00:41:54Can you name some that you've managed to fix, so to speak?
00:41:58Well, I can't name, I can't mention individual cases
00:42:02because, you know, I work under the cloak of confidentiality.
00:42:05I can tell you that it's been a massive undertaking.
00:42:09I felt it's something that the industry needed.
00:42:13HISA and HIWU certainly felt
00:42:14it was something the industry needed.
00:42:16And I think they felt that I could fill that role.
00:42:20I have been successful in effectuating rule changes,
00:42:24some policy changes, some process changes,
00:42:28one of which I think, you know,
00:42:31that will probably be announced within the next week
00:42:33regarding further changes to the manner
00:42:36in which HIWU and HISA are handling drugs
00:42:40of illicit use that are being abused,
00:42:42that are finding their way into horses.
00:42:45Cocaine, methamphetamine, fentanyls,
00:42:47the drugs that are ubiquitous in human society
00:42:51that are finding their way into horses.
00:42:53If there's one area that really has been troubling
00:42:55the industry, it's been the handling
00:42:57of these kinds of cases,
00:42:59provisional suspensions for trainers,
00:43:02the high hurdle to overcome
00:43:04what is a contamination situation,
00:43:06that it's hard for horsemen to establish
00:43:08how the drug got into the horse.
00:43:10And there really has been, I think,
00:43:14a sea change in HISA and HIWU's thinking
00:43:16that is, I think, going to calm the situation down.
00:43:19One of the things that I would tell you
00:43:20that has surprised me is that I would have expected
00:43:23when the new anti-doping program went into effect
00:43:26that there would be a cascade of positive tests
00:43:32in the controlled substances area,
00:43:33the therapeutic substances,
00:43:35because they backed the, they're not withdrawal times,
00:43:38but they backed the administration times out
00:43:40because of the, we were going to different detection levels
00:43:47and it didn't happen.
00:43:48It has not happened.
00:43:50The failure rate has been very consistent,
00:43:53if not better than what we had seen prior to HISA and HIWU,
00:43:57which means that the industry has adjusted
00:43:59to these massive changes and they've done it well.
00:44:03The bigger problem has been in the banned substances area.
00:44:07That's what gets the most attention in the media.
00:44:09It seems to be what upsets the horsemen the most.
00:44:12And I've actually seen a dramatic drop in those cases
00:44:15over the past couple of months also.
00:44:18This program's only been in effect since May.
00:44:20And so I think they expected
00:44:23there were going to be bumps in the road.
00:44:25I had a massive amount of work when I started this program,
00:44:30but it has calmed down substantially.
00:44:32And I think that's because the industry
00:44:33is adapting to the system
00:44:35and HISA and HIWU are starting to make necessary changes.
00:44:39Alan, you kind of already answered my question,
00:44:41but I want to go back to this.
00:44:44To me, I look at the website almost every day,
00:44:48the HIWU website,
00:44:49about see if any new names are up there.
00:44:51But by and large,
00:44:53people that have gotten these provisional suspensions
00:44:55for always banned substances are not people who cheat.
00:45:00They just don't.
00:45:01I mean, you have a guy with four horses
00:45:03wins three races a year at a rate of 7%.
00:45:08The person isn't a cheater.
00:45:10Yet these things have come down on them with these drugs,
00:45:14like you said,
00:45:15that almost have to be environmental contamination.
00:45:19And then these people's lives are upended
00:45:23and in some cases have been suspended for two years.
00:45:28Is HISA now ready?
00:45:30To me, that portion of the system is broken.
00:45:34Is HISA ready now to roll up its sleeves
00:45:37and say we've got to do better with this?
00:45:38And, you know, innocent people cannot continue
00:45:42to keep getting suspensions.
00:45:44Yeah, the answer is yes.
00:45:45And those changes are already in motion
00:45:48and there are some changes that had been made,
00:45:50but they needed further changes.
00:45:52And to their credit, they've accepted those changes.
00:45:54So in the banned substances area,
00:45:57there was what was called a provisional suspension.
00:45:59If you had a banned substance,
00:46:01you were immediately told that you were suspended
00:46:04pending further investigation.
00:46:06And in the banned substance area,
00:46:08ultimately an arbitration proceeding.
00:46:10The rub was clearly with these drugs of illicit human use
00:46:14that were finding their way into horses.
00:46:16And so the first change that HISA made
00:46:19was to not impose a provisional suspension immediately,
00:46:23allow the trainer to get the bee sample tested
00:46:26and allow for a period of investigation.
00:46:30The problem continued to be
00:46:32that the rules require the trainer
00:46:34to establish that it's more likely than not
00:46:37that it was contamination
00:46:39and they have to provide some information or evidence
00:46:42to support the notion that it was contamination
00:46:44and not an intentional administration.
00:46:47From my own point of view,
00:46:48in the decades that I've been doing this,
00:46:50I've never seen an intentional administration
00:46:52of a cocaine or a methamphetamine
00:46:54and there wouldn't be a reason to do it.
00:46:56And so the industry pre-HISA, HIWU,
00:47:00did a very good job of handling this case.
00:47:02As you indicated, this was something
00:47:03that was not broken and needed to be fixed
00:47:06and somehow in the new system, it got broken.
00:47:09And fortunately, it's being fixed.
00:47:11Under new rule changes
00:47:12that we're waiting for the Federal Trade Commission
00:47:15to approve, the HIWU will have the discretion now
00:47:20to determine that it is more likely than not
00:47:23that it was contamination,
00:47:26inadvertent exposure, as we like to call it,
00:47:29and not an intentional administration.
00:47:31And the penalties have been substantially reduced.
00:47:35Pre this rule change that's coming,
00:47:37the penalty could be up to a two-year suspension
00:47:40and a $25,000 fine plus arbitration.
00:47:43Now the penalty will not exceed 60 days.
00:47:46And if there is a showing to the satisfaction of HIWU
00:47:50that there is a likelihood that it was contamination
00:47:52and not an intentional administration,
00:47:54that can be mitigated down to a handling
00:47:58that is very similar to the way
00:47:59the Racing Commission's handled it before now.
00:48:02So it's taken time.
00:48:03It's taken some troubling situations to get it done.
00:48:08But I think the fix now will solve this particular problem.
00:48:12But the last thing I would say about this,
00:48:16the single biggest problem that I see,
00:48:18and I think HIWU and HUDS are seeing,
00:48:20is when trainers get notice of violations,
00:48:23some of them are not responding.
00:48:24And if they don't respond to the notice,
00:48:27if they don't provide information,
00:48:29if they don't call me and let me explain to them what to do,
00:48:33if they don't hire a lawyer or they don't follow through,
00:48:36they're gonna get suspended
00:48:37because it's essentially a default.
00:48:40And so the onus is on the horseman
00:48:42to provide an explanation
00:48:44as best that person, that individual can.
00:48:47Even if he doesn't know or she doesn't know
00:48:49how it got into the horse, explain the circumstances
00:48:52and let under the new system,
00:48:54HIWU will have the ability now to exercise discretion,
00:48:58which it didn't have before
00:49:00or didn't choose to exercise to resolve these cases.
00:49:04So fortunately, there's gonna be a big change here.
00:49:09Helen, one more before we let you go.
00:49:11Any thoughts on the ongoing Bob Baffert saga?
00:49:14I was just gonna ask that.
00:49:16Because you were on this in 2022
00:49:20and I was not on it and you guys were talking about it.
00:49:23And here we are in 2024.
00:49:25We're still talking about it.
00:49:27They're moving the goalposts.
00:49:30You know, I think that I've said since day one,
00:49:33I've been mystified at the way this has been handled.
00:49:36Okay, my training, my work,
00:49:39and I've prosecuted probably more cases
00:49:42than I've defended in my career is
00:49:45if the drug is present in the horse,
00:49:47if the drug is a, we don't use,
00:49:50we didn't use the word ban substance before that,
00:49:52forbidden substance, even if it's therapeutic.
00:49:55Okay, it's a violation.
00:49:58And that's been, I felt that way since day one,
00:50:01regardless of circumstances.
00:50:02If you went into a drug store
00:50:04and you bought a bottle of aloe vera with lidocaine
00:50:08and you rubbed it on the horse
00:50:10because it had some kind of burn or irritation,
00:50:16that lidocaine is gonna get into the bloodstream.
00:50:19That is gonna create a positive test
00:50:21and it's a violation of the rules.
00:50:23So using, whether it's a topical beta methadone
00:50:26or it's an injectable, it doesn't matter.
00:50:28It's that the drug was administered to the horse
00:50:32in violation of the rules and it's present in the horse.
00:50:35And that to me, you know, the exercise is,
00:50:39is it there?
00:50:40How did it get there?
00:50:41When did it get there?
00:50:43And how much was the horse treated with?
00:50:45And if it's a positive, it's a positive.
00:50:47To be talking about this three years after the fact is,
00:50:52you know, it just doesn't make any sense.
00:50:54My point to this is that Bob served his time.
00:50:58He did his two years.
00:50:59It seems like Churchill is moving the goalposts.
00:51:02They're never gonna let him back in.
00:51:05I can't speak to the relationship
00:51:07between Bob and Churchill,
00:51:09but it strikes me that's more personal
00:51:11than it is substantive with regards
00:51:14to the positive test itself.
00:51:16Look, this was not a doping violation, okay?
00:51:18This was a therapeutic medication,
00:51:20a controlled therapeutic medication.
00:51:22There are rules for those controlled
00:51:24therapeutic medications.
00:51:25It was in the horse.
00:51:26The horse has to be disqualified.
00:51:28You can argue a bad penalty,
00:51:30but it would just shock me
00:51:33if some court subsequently would determine
00:51:37that the rule was not violated
00:51:39and it's not a positive test.
00:51:41And I don't expect that to happen.
00:51:43And it's just unfortunate.
00:51:45It just, it really is just so unfortunate.
00:51:48I wish that Bob had taken his medicine
00:51:50and just moved on.
00:51:52Very good.
00:51:52Well, Alan, thanks so much for joining us.
00:51:54Boy, you got a busy full plate right now
00:51:56with everything that's going on with PIMICO
00:51:58and with HISA and HIWU.
00:51:59And I always love to get your insights,
00:52:01particularly on Maryland Racing.
00:52:03Thanks for joining us.
00:52:04And we'll catch up with you again soon.
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00:53:28With some of the fullest fields in the country
00:53:30and quality racing year round,
00:53:33there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
00:53:35of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:53:39Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high.
00:53:42As is average purse per race,
00:53:44outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:53:48Kentucky breads.
00:53:49Breed them.
00:53:50Raise them.
00:53:52Race them.
00:53:53We all win.
00:53:57It should come as no surprise
00:53:59that in TDN's very first Derby,
00:54:01top 12, every horse on the list,
00:54:04all 12, bred in the state of Kentucky.
00:54:06From number one, Nysos,
00:54:07all the way down to number 12, Carbone.
00:54:10And 25 of the 33 Eclipse Award divisional finalists,
00:54:14including Arcangelo, Cody's Wish,
00:54:16Elite Power, Fierceness, and more,
00:54:18also bred in the Bluegrass State.
00:54:20On the other side of the world now,
00:54:21the meeting in Maidan is underway.
00:54:23And Kentucky Derby breads,
00:54:24there are regular visitors to the winner's circle,
00:54:28such as last Friday.
00:54:29Kentucky bred twos by Oxpo.
00:54:31Took home the trophy in the Group 3 Dubawi Stakes.
00:54:35Kentucky breads.
00:54:36Breed them.
00:54:37Raise them.
00:54:38Race them.
00:54:39We all win.
00:54:41But first things first.
00:54:44Absolutely.
00:54:45And this week, I caught up with jockey Emily Ellingwood,
00:54:49White Abario, and the rest of the connections
00:54:52on perhaps one of the most beautiful days
00:54:55I have seen at Santa Anita in quite some time.
00:55:04Hey, Em.
00:55:05I'm great.
00:55:06How are you?
00:55:07Good.
00:55:08Ready to roll?
00:55:08How far are we going?
00:55:10Half out, five.
00:55:11All right.
00:55:11Gallop out as far as we want.
00:55:19Tell me a little bit how this journey has been for you
00:55:22from the beginning.
00:55:23Show horse girl, learn to gallop horses,
00:55:26jockey to this handsome boy over here.
00:55:31How's it been for you?
00:55:32It's pretty exciting.
00:55:33It's been quite a journey.
00:55:37I've just been galloping, trying to work hard and get
00:55:41mounts as a jockey.
00:55:42And this opportunity came up, and I couldn't pass it up.
00:55:47So I'm really grateful for the connections and Doug O'Neill,
00:55:51especially, for recommending me as a rider
00:55:55for this wonderful horse.
00:55:58He's honestly a great horse to get on in the morning.
00:56:02He pretty much trains himself and just
00:56:04takes me along for the ride.
00:56:06So it's, yeah, I always look forward
00:56:09to riding him in the morning.
00:56:11OK, cool.
00:56:12He's a little bit spoiled, is he not?
00:56:14Just a little bit.
00:56:18You won the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:56:20That was awesome.
00:56:21But now you're looking towards $20 million race.
00:56:24You've got to feel excited.
00:56:26We're real excited, you know.
00:56:28And the purse is exciting in itself.
00:56:31But I'll be honest with you, we're
00:56:32really excited to see what this horse does
00:56:34at a mile and an eighth one turn.
00:56:36We think that is right in his wheelhouse.
00:56:41All right, Chipper.
00:56:42He looked great out there.
00:56:43Just what you wanted?
00:56:44Yes, yes.
00:56:46We were very happy with his breeze.
00:56:50Makes it look easy.
00:56:52We know just by watching Emily with her smile
00:56:59after the breeze, we know that she's
00:57:01very happy with him.
00:57:02That's our cue, is Emily's smile.
00:57:06And we got that today.
00:57:07So everybody's happy.
00:57:09How important has Emily been since she's
00:57:12been getting on wider barrio prior to the Breeders' Cup?
00:57:14She seems like she's fitted right into the Dutch Road team.
00:57:18Yes.
00:57:19Yeah, these two are a great team.
00:57:24It's like 1 and 1A, Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis.
00:57:30They know each other so well.
00:57:33I mean, they're in love with each other.
00:57:34It's a great story.
00:57:36How was his work this morning, Em?
00:57:38It was great.
00:57:39We went a half out five.
00:57:41He galloped out really strong.
00:57:43I went to pull up to jog him off, and workers came by,
00:57:46and he tried to take off again.
00:57:48So that's always a good sign.
00:57:50And if I had let him, he probably
00:57:53would have gone around again.
00:57:56Roberto, the groom of wider barrio.
00:57:58I wouldn't ask that.
00:57:59He is.
00:58:00Best horse ever?
00:58:02Yeah, I like that horse.
00:58:04He's the best in the world now.
00:58:06What about his work this morning?
00:58:07I noticed you gave him a candy right after.
00:58:09Yeah, I give him candy every day.
00:58:12I give him candy after they win the race.
00:58:16He loves the candy.
00:58:17Oh, yeah, he wants a piece of the doodle.
00:58:22Betty, you better keep walking, otherwise
00:58:24you'll get me into trouble.
00:58:27Yeah, keep walking.
00:58:33Many thanks to all the connections there,
00:58:34and we look forward to seeing White a barrio in the Saudi Cup.
00:58:38Do want to remind you that we race on Friday, Saturday,
00:58:40and Sunday, post-time, 12.30 on Friday.
00:58:44It's free Fridays, free to get in and free parking.
00:58:47$3 beers and $5 margaritas.
00:58:49Do have some steaks action this weekend as well,
00:58:52with the Astra Steaks on Sunday.
00:58:54Going a mile and a half on the grass,
00:58:56and the La Cañada on Saturday.
00:59:00Well, so far as this weekend's racing goes,
00:59:03the attention is going to be focused primarily
00:59:05on the fairgrounds, where there are several stakes.
00:59:08Bunch of them preps for the major races coming up
00:59:11on Louisiana Derby Day.
00:59:13And three-year-old fillies, newly-turned three-year-old
00:59:16fillies, will go in the Silver Bullet Day Steaks.
00:59:19It's the 10th race.
00:59:20Fairgrounds, not the strongest field you'll ever see.
00:59:23Looks like West Omaha, trained by Brad Cox,
00:59:26coming off a second-place finish in the Untappable
00:59:29with an 81 buyer, will certainly be the favorite
00:59:32and the one to beat.
00:59:34But how about this horse, Miss Code West,
00:59:36the Queen of Oklahoma.
00:59:38Oklahoma bred, is undefeated in four career starts.
00:59:42Buyer number of 79, beating Open Company last time out
00:59:45at Remington Park, for trainer Kevin Scholl.
00:59:48We'll see what happens with that horse.
00:59:49A $12,000 purchase at the sales.
00:59:53Boy, for $12,000, you certainly got a runner there.
00:59:55But Zoe, what do you think about
00:59:57the Silver Bullet Day Steaks?
00:59:58Hey, good horses can come from anywhere.
01:00:00If you've got a horse that's won four in a row,
01:00:03kudos to them.
01:00:04Congrats to Kevin Scholl, the trainer,
01:00:07and all the owners, Jeff and Julie Puri.
01:00:09And Miss Code West certainly looks like one to beat.
01:00:12Yes, she got it done last time in Open Company,
01:00:15but, I mean, that was Remington Park.
01:00:17She's won short, she's won long, and she's won in the mud.
01:00:21So she's done just about everything,
01:00:23but she is going to have to have her running shoes on
01:00:26to beat West Omaha.
01:00:27Luis Saez will pick up the mound,
01:00:30be the fourth different rider.
01:00:31Why can't Brad Cox keep a rider?
01:00:33He's like the best trainer in the country.
01:00:35Why can he not keep a rider on this filly?
01:00:38Well, you know, what's especially interesting here
01:00:41is that Joel Rosario rode West Omaha
01:00:44in the Untappable at the fairground.
01:00:46Right.
01:00:46And Rosario now, in this race,
01:00:48is on perfect shot for Steve Asmussen,
01:00:51the son of Gunrunner, who gets post number one.
01:00:53Now, as we all know,
01:00:55a variety of circumstances could have taken place there, right?
01:00:58Ron Anderson might not have known
01:01:00that West Omaha was going to go in this race
01:01:03until he'd already committed to perfect shot.
01:01:05We don't know what happens until we talk to the agent.
01:01:07But I think it comes down to those two.
01:01:10You know, kudos to Miss Code West for being four for four.
01:01:14But if you go back and you look at all of the races run
01:01:18on Oklahoma Derby Day at Remington Park
01:01:21on December the 15th,
01:01:22it was a very, very, in my opinion,
01:01:25biased racetrack toward early speed and rail.
01:01:29And that's exactly what Miss Code West had.
01:01:31And I think that might have played,
01:01:33at least in part, to that 79-buyer speed figure.
01:01:36West Omaha, to me, there's a little more in the tank.
01:01:40Three wide on both turns, race kind of green,
01:01:43had her head up kind of high.
01:01:46I think she's eligible to improve.
01:01:48She also hopped back to her left lead late in the race.
01:01:51So, you know, very inexperienced looking in that race.
01:01:54And I'm expecting her to be really tough
01:01:57to beat with any kind of forward move here.
01:02:00Twelfth race at the fairgrounds on Saturday
01:02:02is Louisiana Stakes, a grade three.
01:02:04Once again, Brad Cox is front and center with Saudi Crown,
01:02:07the winner of the Pennsylvania Derby,
01:02:10then ran a poor race in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:02:13Tenth, beaten 12 and three-quarter lengths.
01:02:16Front Geru will ride.
01:02:18Smile Happy is a horse that ran a big 110 buyer in the alley.
01:02:21Sheba two starts back.
01:02:23Couple other nice horses in here.
01:02:24I'm a little surprised Saudi Crown wasn't pointed
01:02:27for the Pegasus World Cup.
01:02:29That's such a wide open race.
01:02:31And with no big superstars coming into the race this year,
01:02:33I would have think that horse would have had a chance in that race.
01:02:37But if Saudi Crown, the question is,
01:02:39does he run back to his Pennsylvania Derby?
01:02:40He was an up-and-coming horse at that point.
01:02:43Ran second in the Jim Dandy,
01:02:44beaten only a nose by Forte.
01:02:46He's got a lot of quality.
01:02:48Brad Cox certainly knows what he's doing.
01:02:51And, you know, I'd like to get a little bit more clever
01:02:54and adventurous here.
01:02:55But to me, Saudi Crown, Randy, once again, is the horse to beat.
01:02:59Yeah, he was on the invitation list and he still is right now
01:03:05as we sit here as we tape this.
01:03:06He is among the top 12 listed invitees for the Pegasus World Cup.
01:03:12But here's what's going on there.
01:03:14Saudi Crown is owned by Faisal Mohammed Al-Qahtani of Saudi Arabia.
01:03:20The primary goal for this horse is to get to and to win the Saudi Cup.
01:03:25That is the number one emphasis for Saudi Crown.
01:03:28And they even talked about that even last fall before the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:03:32So Cox had his choice.
01:03:34He could keep this horse at home at the fairgrounds where he's stable,
01:03:37get a nice, hopefully easy prep race into him,
01:03:40although this has turned out to be a really tough spot,
01:03:43to move him forward to get ready for the Saudi Cup,
01:03:46as opposed to shipping, you know, to Gulfstream Park
01:03:49and taking on a tougher field in the Pegasus World Cup.
01:03:54So this is designed to be a prep for Saudi Crown.
01:03:58And that's why he's not in the Pegasus World Cup.
01:04:00Now, if, let's say, they get a horribly sloppy racetrack or something at the fairgrounds,
01:04:06that's why Brad Cox told the people at Gulfstream
01:04:10to keep him on the invitation list for the Pegasus World Cup as a backup.
01:04:16You never know what's going to happen between now and Saturday at the fairgrounds.
01:04:19But that's the only chance we'll see Saudi Crown at Gulfstream.
01:04:23Smile Happy is capable of running a huge race.
01:04:27I was kind of surprised not to see him in the Pegasus World Cup as well.
01:04:31But this has turned out to be a, between those two especially,
01:04:34but some others, a really, really good race for $175,000.
01:04:41I'm just checking the weather. It's going to be beautiful on Saturday at the fairgrounds.
01:04:45A low of 30, a high of 45. No rain in the forecast whatsoever.
01:04:51So it looks like it's good. What about Five Star General?
01:04:54What a cool horse he is. Now eight years old.
01:04:57He's won 11 of 33 lifetime starts and he likes the fairgrounds.
01:05:02I'm going to shove him in there as a long shot.
01:05:06Thirteenth race on the card, the LeCompte on the road to the Louisiana Derby,
01:05:10grade three, with a purse of $200,000.
01:05:15And you know, the horse, whether he wins or not, from a handicapping standpoint,
01:05:19you got to figure out Nash. I remember he won that race at Churchill on November 12th
01:05:24by 10 and a quarter lengths, got a 97 buyer.
01:05:27A lot of people were talking about him as being coming into the three-year-old season
01:05:31and one of the real horses to watch. Didn't run terrible in the gunrunner,
01:05:36but at odds of one to two, he was pretty flat. Ran third, beaten three lengths.
01:05:40Does he bounce back to his prior race where he ran a 97 buyer
01:05:45or does he run back to the gunrunner where he was beaten by Track Phantom,
01:05:50trained by Steve Asmussen? And he'll take that horse on again in this race.
01:05:56For our old friend John Green, Can Group's kind of interesting.
01:06:00Horses has three straight pretty good races, including the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf,
01:06:04where he finished fourth, but can he do that on the dirt?
01:06:07So guys, I'm not going to come back with Nash. I'm not off that race.
01:06:12I'll go with Track Phantom for now. I think he's the best of this group.
01:06:17Yeah. I mean, I can't disagree with you there for trainer Asmussen,
01:06:21who keeps Rosario, gets Rosario back aboard this one.
01:06:25He broke this horse's maiden by four and a half.
01:06:28I mean, Brad Cox has got many ways to go. He's got several entrants in here.
01:06:32He's got Nash. He has Ethan Energy.
01:06:35And then at the outside, he has Awesome Road,
01:06:37who just broke the maiden and was thrown into grade one company.
01:06:40So I'm not sure all three will run, but I think Track Phantom may be the best of them.
01:06:48It comes down to which Nash we're going to see.
01:06:50It's very interesting when you look at the horse's past performances.
01:06:53Is he a one-dimensional frontrunner?
01:06:56I mean, is the only scenario in which he's going to run a race
01:07:02like he ran at Churchill Downs,
01:07:03I got that 97 buyer speed figure, is when he's on an uncontested early lead.
01:07:08I mean, we don't know that much about the horse at this point in his career.
01:07:11I know he had no real tangible excuse as the one to two favorite in the gunrunner.
01:07:17In the running of the race, possibly he made a little bit of a premature move into a fast pace.
01:07:22He went the second quarter in 22.95 seconds.
01:07:26It was a pretty hot pace in that race.
01:07:28But then he just kind of, you know, came up empty.
01:07:30Brad was disappointed. There was nothing in the race.
01:07:34There was nothing after the race that they found to give him any kind of a legitimate excuse.
01:07:38So it's just, you know, running back in the LeCompte and see where you're at.
01:07:43Track Phantom's win in the gunrunner was pretty remarkable.
01:07:47And Asmussen talked about this immediately after the race.
01:07:50You just don't see horses at the fairgrounds, typically.
01:07:55Go a half in 46.93 seconds on the engine.
01:08:00And he was really shaken up at the gate.
01:08:02He was really put on the engine to make the lead early in that race and got involved in a speed duel.
01:08:07You typically don't see horses then fight off the posse coming down the lane in graded stakes competition.
01:08:15So Track Phantom managed to do that.
01:08:19He held on tenaciously to win.
01:08:22And so he's even, I think, a little bit better than that 89 buyer speed figure that he got in that particular race.
01:08:28So, Bill, I agree that Track Phantom is the horse to beat.
01:08:32And the horse that dueled with him last time is back in the race next level.
01:08:38And he again, like the gunrunner, draws the number one post position.
01:08:41But the blinkers come off next level for Keith DeSormo.
01:08:46And having tried to go to the lead last time, and they did hustle him last time,
01:08:50and engaged in a duel with Track Phantom, it didn't end well.
01:08:53The horse got beat 32 and a quarter lengths.
01:08:57So you'd have to think they're going to change strategy this time with next level.
01:09:01And looking at the past performances, that gives Track Phantom, the way I look at it, probably an uncontested lead.
01:09:09So he's going to be double tough to beat, I think, in that regard.
01:09:13The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:09:16The XBTV Workout of the Week is New Grain.
01:09:19She turned in a four furlong work in 48 flat for Trainer Phil D'Amato on Saturday.
01:09:25This is him going solo with Tony aboard.
01:09:27And now he manages to track some Leo Powell trainees.
01:09:30And I can honestly say I've never seen him look as good as he looks right now.
01:09:36He won the San Antonio Stakes in his last start on opening day and is pointed towards the January 27th Pegasus at Goldstream Park.
01:09:44He opened up his 2023 season in Keisha Wondering with a win in the Grade 2 San Pascual Stakes.
01:09:51We'll see him at the Pegasus in just a couple of weeks.
01:10:14All the thrills.
01:10:31Fraction of the bills.
01:10:35Experience the power of the partnership.
01:10:41Change your life, make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:10:48West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:10:52Visit WestPointTV.com. The TDN Writers Room brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:10:59West Point, the co-owner of the undefeated Integration, who is approaching his biggest challenge so far in his young career.
01:11:07He's scheduled to run in the $1 million Pegasus World Cup Turf on January 27th at Goldstream Park.
01:11:14He'll probably be the second betting favorite, I'm thinking, in that race.
01:11:18Warm Heart is expected to run from Coolmore and Aiden O'Brien.
01:11:22Warm Heart was second in the Breeders' Cup Philly and Merritt Turf.
01:11:26So those look like the two favorites.
01:11:28But Integration in there with a really good chance, having an impressive win in the Hill Prince in his last start.
01:11:34He also won the Virginia Derby before that.
01:11:36The Pegasus World Cup, his very first grade one start.
01:11:39Tyler Gafleon has them out again for Integration.
01:11:44If you are interested in joining a West Point partnership, bless you, Zoe, and perhaps being vaulted into the world of instant camaraderie,
01:11:51go to WestPointTV.com.
01:12:04Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:12:06I want to thank the entire team.
01:12:07My partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.
01:12:10Our producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca.
01:12:13And our editors, Ali LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:12:16Where's Lucy?
01:12:17Hi, where's Lucy?
01:12:20There she is.
01:12:23Hi, Lucy.
01:12:24OK, and of course, our mascot, Randy Moss's very own Lucy.
01:12:29Thanks for joining us.
01:12:30We'll be back next week.