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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to 2023 and the first edition of the TDN Writer's Room in the new year.
00:00:33My name is Bill Finley and I am the host today of the TDN Writer's Room and guess what?
00:00:37It's my birthday.
00:00:38You only turned 41 once.
00:00:40Congratulations, 41.
00:00:42I'm Randy Moss, NBC Sports and Buyer Speed Figures.
00:00:46I'm Zoe Cabman with XBTV and Fast Racing and Bill, wishing you a very happy birthday.
00:00:53I was going to sing and surprise you, but you beat us all to it.
00:00:57You really did.
00:00:58You just threw yourself under the bus.
00:01:02Thank you, Zoe.
00:01:04And I'm glad.
00:01:06No comments on the 41 fabrication that I just lied to everybody about.
00:01:08So we'll keep this little secret between all of us.
00:01:11So we haven't been on for a couple of weeks.
00:01:13We took our little annual Christmas break.
00:01:15So what's been happening on the racetrack?
00:01:17Well, quite a lot.
00:01:18But I thought that the biggest story was the Run Happy Malibu on a phenomenal day of racing
00:01:23at San Diego, the 41,000 people, all the big stakes races, Frankie Dettori, who we're going
00:01:27to hear from later as he is the Green Group Guest of the Week and a really good interview
00:01:31wins on Country Grammar.
00:01:34But it wasn't just to me that Teba won the race was what it means for the Eclipse Awards.
00:01:40And I think the three of us should issue a mea culpa because right after the Breeders'
00:01:46Cup, we started throwing out our Eclipse Award picks.
00:01:49And you know, we I think we all said Epicenter.
00:01:51We all said Warlike Goddess.
00:01:53We jumped the gun.
00:01:54You know, we didn't realize or we didn't take into account that there were some good races
00:01:58yet to come.
00:01:59So Teba wins the race, the Run Happy Malibu.
00:02:03I have already been in print in the Thoroughbred Daily News saying I'm voting for Teba for
00:02:09the three-year-old championship.
00:02:10And there's, you know, there's no one factor that goes into this, but there is a factor
00:02:15I cannot overlook in that Teba won three grade one races and Epicenter won one.
00:02:21If the score was maybe two to one, I think I probably still would have gone with Epicenter.
00:02:24But I always consider the grade one races, the grade one victories, the single most important
00:02:28component of my Eclipse Award votes.
00:02:31It's how we keep score in this game.
00:02:33Graded Stakes wins and the gold standard, of course, of Graded Stakes wins are grade
00:02:37one races.
00:02:38Randy, am I right about this or am I off base?
00:02:41Well, I mean, look, I'm a fan of Teba.
00:02:43I love Teba.
00:02:44I think he's a really cool horse and all that.
00:02:46I prefer to look at grade ones a bit more holistically.
00:02:51Look, you've got grade one, Santa Anita Derby and the Arkansas Derby and the Pacific Classic
00:02:59that three-year-olds often run in and then the Pennsylvania Derby and the Haskell.
00:03:03But the way I look at it in my voting, especially for three-year-old champion, not all grade
00:03:08ones are the same.
00:03:11I give much more credit to outcomes of the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont and Breeders'
00:03:17Cup Classic.
00:03:18And I give more weight to the Travers than most of the other grade one races that three-year-olds
00:03:24run in.
00:03:25Epicenter ran a strong second in the Kentucky Derby.
00:03:29He ran an even stronger second in the Preakness.
00:03:31I think if they ran that race 10 times, he'd win the majority of them.
00:03:36And he was a dominant winner in the Travers.
00:03:39He also won the Jim Dandy in between and looked pretty good winning that.
00:03:42Now, you can't count the Breeders' Cup Classic against him because he was injured during
00:03:46the race.
00:03:47And, oh, by the way, Teba was in the Kentucky Derby as well and Epicenter defeated Teba
00:03:52soundly.
00:03:53So, whereas I couldn't tell you, Bill, for example, oh, you're wrong in voting for Teba,
00:03:59I prefer to look at those races I pointed out as having more credit.
00:04:05And so I voted for Epicenter first and Teba second.
00:04:10And I'm right with you.
00:04:11I did the same thing as Randy, Epicenter.
00:04:14I am in full agreement we lost Bill.
00:04:16He doesn't want to hear us anymore.
00:04:17He left the room.
00:04:18No, I'm in full agreement that the voting should not take place until January 1st.
00:04:25Nobody should even get a ballot before then.
00:04:28And then, like, leave it till the 7th.
00:04:30Have seven days to vote if you want to.
00:04:33What's the hurry?
00:04:34I don't really get it.
00:04:35I've been on Epicenter the whole way through.
00:04:38Teba did not change my mind.
00:04:40And I'm looking at the whole body of work and all of the horses that Epicenter beat,
00:04:45like Randy said, the races he ran in, the amount of horses he beat.
00:04:49Teba's faced some shorter fields than Epicenter if you consider the Kentucky Derby in which
00:04:54he beat Teba.
00:04:55So for me, it's all about Epicenter and the body of work, and he won the Louisiana Derby
00:05:00as well.
00:05:01So Epicenter for me and Teba second.
00:05:04Now, if you take out the personal equation and you leave it to the computers, which I
00:05:09don't know, maybe one day they're going to do that, then it's going to be Epicenter on
00:05:14the body of work, the three grade ones specifically.
00:05:17But I think you really have to look behind the lines.
00:05:19Yeah, I mean, this is not one of those divisions where I'm going to tell you you're just wrong
00:05:24and throw up my hands.
00:05:25And I think so.
00:05:26We've got two Epicenters and one Teba.
00:05:28I think you guys both feel the same way about my selection.
00:05:30So you brought up another good point, and I want to bring this up.
00:05:34Why are the ballots sent out on December 12th?
00:05:37And could you imagine, Randy, you're an NFL guy.
00:05:39Could you imagine the football writers voting for the most valuable player after the 15th
00:05:45game of the season?
00:05:46Well, you know, this is one of these silly horse racing things that make no sense whatsoever.
00:05:51Now, will it cost Teba?
00:05:53Probably not.
00:05:54But you never know.
00:05:55It's going to be really close.
00:05:56And there are people who will have voted before the Malibu was run.
00:06:02Just like Zoe said, you know, don't let anybody vote until January 1st.
00:06:05Now, they close the voting now on January 3rd.
00:06:09You would have to extend a little bit.
00:06:10But why are they in such a hurry?
00:06:11I don't really get that.
00:06:13And look, you know, if Teba loses by one vote and, you know, 20 people voted before the
00:06:18Malibu, you got to say, hey, maybe, you know, he was really jobbed here.
00:06:21Yeah, every year, for those who aren't aware, every year in mid-December, the voters for
00:06:26Eclipse Awards receive one of these.
00:06:29It's a handy-dandy publication from the Daily Racing Forum.
00:06:33It contains all the past performances of all the leading contenders in all the different
00:06:37divisions.
00:06:38It includes rankings, earnings, grade one wins for jockeys, trainers, owners, breeders.
00:06:46But again, it's printed in mid-December.
00:06:49It doesn't include – there he goes.
00:06:50So it doesn't include the later part of the month.
00:06:53Now, they do say down below in the fine print, while you may begin voting now, it is strongly
00:06:59encouraged that you consider waiting to vote until the conclusion of the grade one racing
00:07:03conducted at the end of this month, which includes the Malibu, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:07:08OK, so at least they referenced that.
00:07:10But I'm in agreement with you.
00:07:11I mean, I don't think these should even be – what's the rush?
00:07:13I mean, I don't think they should even be mailed out until the end of the year when
00:07:17all of the races are included in the past performances.
00:07:20And this year, it's not just Teba and the Malibu.
00:07:25For example, in the Philly and Mare Turf Division, there are some people I've seen who have cast
00:07:33a vote for an Italian as the female turf champion.
00:07:37Well, Regal Glory, an Italian stablemate, and they split one-to-one in head-to-head
00:07:43meetings.
00:07:44Regal Glory had a huge win in the matriarch in early December in California, the last
00:07:49start of her career.
00:07:51So that race wasn't really considered, perhaps, by some of the voters as well.
00:07:56Even though that was in the past performances, yeah, I don't think it still gets as much
00:08:00credit as it should being post Breeders' Cup.
00:08:02Yeah, these are through December the 4th.
00:08:05So I mean, that can just go out the window.
00:08:08They're useless, absolutely useless.
00:08:11You know what I think the problem is, and if I'm wrong, I apologize, because I don't
00:08:14know this for a fact, but I think the rush is they want to sell tickets to the Eclipse
00:08:17Award Banquet, and they need to get all their ducks in a row to do that.
00:08:23And it's a moneymaker and a revenue maker for them.
00:08:26But the bottom line is, let's get it right.
00:08:29And I don't think any sensible person can argue that sending out the ballot on December
00:08:33... I got an email notification on December 12th, which came before the thing that came
00:08:39in the mail, but I don't think anybody can argue.
00:08:42Okay, so Randy and Zoe, are there any other Eclipse races that you think are a toss of
00:08:47a coin a little bit?
00:08:48Randy, you mentioned Philly and Mayor Turf.
00:08:51I'm seeing a lot of people voting, you know, people are now posting their ballots online
00:08:56and on social media and Twitter, and I'm seeing a lot of ... in Italians, I don't see anybody
00:09:01voting for our horse Warlike Goddess, who the three of us threw our support behind after
00:09:06the Breeders' Cup.
00:09:08But I think Regal Glory, you know, isn't necessarily a no brainer, but then again, it is the right
00:09:12pick.
00:09:13You know, look at what she accomplished this year.
00:09:15She wins three Grade Ones, plus the Pegasus World Cup Turf, and as Randy mentioned, one
00:09:21of the Grade Ones was after, you know, these ballots were printed up.
00:09:25But any ... Zoe, so we know Randy's on Regal Glory.
00:09:28I'm on Regal Glory.
00:09:29I think myself and Randy's ballots may be the same.
00:09:33I've got one question, Apprentice Jockey, Del Cid Vicente, nobody's really ever heard
00:09:40of him, but he's almost the winningest jockey in North America.
00:09:43I mean, he's got, I think he had like 120 more wins than the next Apprentice.
00:09:49I voted for him.
00:09:50He did most of his work down in Delta.
00:09:52He actually got hurt on November the 29th.
00:09:56He was ... went down in a spill and suffered an array of facial fractures, so he's still
00:10:00not back riding yet.
00:10:02His bug actually ran out on November the 13th.
00:10:05He did, however, have a six-win day at Delta as an Apprentice.
00:10:09So, yes, I know it's Delta Downs, but the fact that he won almost 120 more races than
00:10:15his closest pursuer made me vote for him.
00:10:18Okay.
00:10:19Zoe, you got that one right.
00:10:22I actually, because they're a sponsor of our radio show, the Down the Stretch show that
00:10:27I do, I pay close attention to Delta and Evangeline, whereas I think a lot of people don't, and
00:10:32realize it's not, you know, Major League Racing.
00:10:35We get that.
00:10:36But this kid was fantastic.
00:10:38He tore that place apart, and just like you said, the number of wins above the guy that
00:10:42was in second, and, you know, people will argue that, well, you know, he's winning in
00:10:46the minor leagues, but you have to look at his dominance.
00:10:50This time, two years from now, he will not be riding at Delta Downs and Evangeline.
00:10:54He'll at least be at a Churchill, or, well, not at least, that would be a major circuit.
00:10:58He'll be a winning rider on an A-level circuit.
00:11:01He's that good.
00:11:02And the competition that he's facing, you know, they're good riders.
00:11:07Barbosa is the one that's getting a lot of votes, and Jose Gomez are the other two candidates.
00:11:12You know, their futures are limited.
00:11:13I can't see them being stars someday.
00:11:16I could see this guy, you know, maybe even going beyond, you know, the fifth leading
00:11:20rider at Churchill.
00:11:21Who knows?
00:11:22The sky's the limit for him.
00:11:23He's really talented.
00:11:24I don't think he's going to win, because everybody's going to hold their nose, and
00:11:28the snobs are going to say, oh, he only rode at Delta Downs and Evangeline.
00:11:31But good job.
00:11:33I voted for him as well.
00:11:34I mean, he had more than 20% win percentage, so, I mean, you know.
00:11:39Just to set the record straight, I didn't vote for Regal Glory for champion, older mare,
00:11:44you know, female turf horse.
00:11:46I thought that she should have gotten more consideration than I think she's going to
00:11:50get, having run post-Breeders' Cup, and a lot of people just get that out of their minds
00:11:54once the Breeders' Cup is done, that, you know, they've got their votes already set
00:11:58in their minds.
00:11:59I actually went Warlike Goddess first, Regal Glory second, and Italian third.
00:12:03A couple of the other divisions that I think are going to be really tough.
00:12:09First of all, Outstanding Trainer.
00:12:12To me, it's a coin flip, really, between Chad Brown and Todd Pletcher.
00:12:16I mean, you can make a strong case for either one of them.
00:12:20I ultimately went Todd Pletcher one, Chad Brown two, and here's another world heard
00:12:26from, Charlie Appleby three.
00:12:29I could even make a case for voting Charlie Appleby the Outstanding Trainer this year,
00:12:32even though he had limited number of starters.
00:12:37Older male turf horse, or just male turf horse in general.
00:12:41The American turf horses, there's not really a lot to get excited about.
00:12:48The male turf horse, I mean, Warlike Goddess finished third in the Breeders' Cup turf.
00:12:52She was the highest finisher of any of the American horses in the Breeders' Cup turf.
00:12:57I thought it came down to Rebels Romance and Modern Games, the two European horses.
00:13:03I thought Rebels Romance was more impressive winning the turf than Modern Games was in
00:13:08winning the mile, but Modern Games made two trips over here, one in Canada and one in
00:13:12the Breeders' Cup, as opposed to Rebels Romance won.
00:13:16What do you use as a criterion there?
00:13:19I ultimately went Modern Games over Rebels Romance, but again, I think that's going to
00:13:24be a really tough one too.
00:13:25I'm in agreement with Randy there.
00:13:27I did the same thing just purely on the two starts, and for lack of a really good male
00:13:33older turf horse, I mean, come on, Chad Brown, where are you?
00:13:37You've got all the girls running their tails off.
00:13:40There's no boys in his barn.
00:13:41Yeah.
00:13:42I mean, it's nice that there are a couple of races that, you know, those years where
00:13:47we know before they announce anything, we know who was going to be the champion in virtually
00:13:51every single category.
00:13:53I mean, nobody's debating whether or not Forte should be the two-year-old male champion.
00:13:56I mean, you'd have to be, you know, simple if you didn't vote for him or something wrong
00:14:01with you.
00:14:02But it is nice that there are a couple of categories where it's a little bit, but Randy,
00:14:05you're right that the Todd Pletcher versus Chad Brown thing is very interesting.
00:14:09And I don't have my notes in front of me, but in almost every category so far as wins,
00:14:16winning percentage, graded stakes wins, grade one wins, Chad Brown has had a better year
00:14:22than Pletcher.
00:14:23But Pletcher is not far behind.
00:14:24It's not like he's getting swamped by Chad Brown.
00:14:27But I went with Pletcher because on that Eclipse Award evening, he's going to be collecting
00:14:32three trophies, Ness, Malathat, and Forte.
00:14:35And I just thought that on top of everything else he accomplished, running one-two in the
00:14:39Belmont this year, you know, again, is just a phenomenal, Chad Brown had a very Chad Brown
00:14:46like year.
00:14:47It was tremendous.
00:14:48I get it.
00:14:49What was very special, Todd Pletcher enters into the category of some very special achievements.
00:14:55That's why I went there.
00:14:56But anyone who wants to vote for Chad Brown will not get any complaint from me.
00:15:00I pulled up a couple of figures that I thought were interesting, the year-end totals on the
00:15:05two.
00:15:06So Todd ran 1,022 races, 223 wins, Chad, 922 races, 244 wins.
00:15:17But I thought the Turf to Dirt contrast was absolutely glaring.
00:15:21Chad Brown on Turf for the year, 571 runners, 135 winners.
00:15:28Todd Pletcher on Turf, 319 to 59.
00:15:33So there's your big sway with the Turf to Chad Brown.
00:15:35Now, if we go to the Dirt, Chad Brown, 351 runners on the Dirt, 109 winners.
00:15:43Todd Pletcher, 703 runners on Dirt, 164 winners.
00:15:49So I think it goes into the category of, are we voting for a Turf trainer or a Dirt trainer?
00:15:55I mean, the year-end statistics are pretty much about the same, but there's definitely
00:16:00a big sway of three-year-old Dirt horses in Pletcher and three-year-old, perhaps, fillies
00:16:07and mares and up in the Chad Brown barn.
00:16:09Yeah, I did the same deep dive in statistics, and you could have absolutely busted me on
00:16:15this one.
00:16:16You know, yes, Chad Brown dominated the Turf division, had a lot more Turf starters.
00:16:21In 2022, Chad's win percentage on Dirt was actually higher than his win percentage with
00:16:28Turf horses.
00:16:29Maybe that's because he ran so many horses against each other in Turf races that it might
00:16:34have brought down his percentage a little bit.
00:16:36And Randy, also, I think it's because Dirt races have smaller fields than Turf races.
00:16:42But in the end, I kind of thought the same thing Bill did.
00:16:45You know, I could go either way on these two guys.
00:16:47They both won a Triple Crown race, early voting for Chad, Moe Donegal for Pletcher, but Pletcher
00:16:52ran one-two in the Belmont.
00:16:55Pletcher won two Breeders' Cup races as opposed to one for Chad.
00:16:59And then, as Bill pointed out, he's going to collect three Eclipse Award trophies, almost
00:17:04certainly.
00:17:05And maybe Chad will get one for In Italian, we'll see.
00:17:08Well, Chad also has Goodnight Olive, so he's going to get definitely the one.
00:17:12And then, you know, I think between In Italian and Rio de Janeiro, he'll probably win that
00:17:16division.
00:17:17Maybe not.
00:17:18We don't know.
00:17:19But so let's say he's got one and a half at this point, because we don't really know about
00:17:20that.
00:17:21But anyways, yeah, the three championships are what's to be.
00:17:25The Keeneland January sale starts on Monday.
00:17:27It will run through four sessions, all starting at 10 a.m. with 1,614 horses cataloged.
00:17:35Let's talk about some of the short yearlings.
00:17:37And I'm not just saying short because they're short.
00:17:40They all turned one on the first of the year.
00:17:43Looking forward to seeing the likes of Authentic, Gamewinner, McKinsey, Tis the Law, Improbable,
00:17:48and War of Will.
00:17:49And guys, it looks like Bob Baffert has a plethora of horses coming forward for the
00:17:55first of the year that are all turning one.
00:17:57Zoe, that's a terrific list of first year sires for the quote unquote short yearlings.
00:18:03Every one of them looks like they can have a great career as a sire.
00:18:05I've always been such a big Tis the Law fan.
00:18:08You know, he he was a horse that showed up every single time.
00:18:11You know, he won some huge races for Barkley Tag and for the Sacatoga Sables.
00:18:17If you know, if we want to have a poll right now about who in this group is going to be
00:18:21number one, I would go with Tis the Law.
00:18:24Easy for me.
00:18:25Randy, you can't be on the fence on this one.
00:18:27I'll take Authentic.
00:18:28All right.
00:18:29We got all of them covered.
00:18:31One of us will be right.
00:18:32We'll be right back after these messages from Keeneland.
00:18:36If this place could talk, it would roar, it would say, this is a race, this beating heart
00:18:51in the heart of horse country, steady and strong beneath the roar, reminding us why
00:18:58for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:19:06Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate to wire win in the Florida Derby.
00:19:12Champion three-year-old.
00:19:13Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
00:19:1911 triple digit buyers.
00:19:21Maximum Security.
00:19:22He smoked them in the Cigar Mile.
00:19:25Grade one winning four-year-old.
00:19:27Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:19:32Secure your mare's future.
00:19:34Maximum Security.
00:19:36The TDN Riders' Room is brought to you by Coolmore, progeny by Ashford Stallions, performed
00:19:42at the top of the game in 2022.
00:19:45Uncle Mo was a top 10 general sire with seven graded stakes winners in 2022, led by Belmont
00:19:51winner Mo Donegal.
00:19:53Munnings was also a top 10 stallion in North America.
00:19:56He had 15 stakes winners, led by Jack Christopher, who also joins the sire this year.
00:20:02Justify was the first three crop sire by earnings.
00:20:05He finished out the year with 29 winners, including four graded stakes winners.
00:20:10Looking forward to seeing Just Steak this weekend.
00:20:14And Practical Joke finished third on the second crop sire list.
00:20:17And American Pharoah finished second on the fourth crop sire list.
00:20:21Randy, I mean, Bill, Bill.
00:20:23Beverly Park?
00:20:24Munnings?
00:20:25Well, why did they think they should have been promoting the fact that Beverly Park
00:20:28is by the hardest working, toughest horse this game has seen in 50 years?
00:20:33By Munnings.
00:20:34So we know the Munnings have talent.
00:20:36We also know how tough they are.
00:20:38Congratulations to Beverly Park, the son of Munnings.
00:20:42Well, with the end of the year coming, we saw two major retirements from trainers.
00:20:46Rick Shosberg, who's been a very good trainer on the New York circuit since the 80s,
00:20:50trained Maria Zman, an Eclipse Award winner.
00:20:52He announced his retirement, and so did Dale Capuano,
00:20:55one of the leading trainers in the sport year in and year out,
00:20:58and has been one of the top figures in Maryland racing for a long, long time.
00:21:02I think the real story here, though, is not about the individuals.
00:21:06It's of the whole.
00:21:07And we're seeing this now.
00:21:11Kieran McLaughlin, a terrific trainer, he walked away.
00:21:14Gary Contessa, another very good trainer, he walked away.
00:21:17He did come back now.
00:21:19He's back training.
00:21:20And this shocked me.
00:21:22Rick Shosberg, I'm telling you, I know neither of you are New Yorkers like I am,
00:21:27so you may not be as familiar with him as I am,
00:21:29but this guy's a really good trainer.
00:21:31He's an Ivy League graduate from Cornell.
00:21:33He's won boatloads of races.
00:21:35He said that his income, he told me, in 2022 was $55,000 a year training horses,
00:21:41and you can't make $55,000 a year.
00:21:44And there are other reasons why he's getting out.
00:21:46He wants to devote more time to thoroughbred aftercare.
00:21:49But I think that, again, this is an ongoing subject,
00:21:52and there's no answer to it.
00:21:54But if your name is not Bob Baffert, Chad Brown, or Todd Pletcher,
00:21:58this is not an easy game, even for top trainers
00:22:01or really good trainers like this.
00:22:03They're all going to be missed.
00:22:04But, you know, again, there's no answer.
00:22:06But the economics of the game for those mid-level trainers are out of whack.
00:22:10Yeah.
00:22:11I mean, it's incredible, especially training in New York.
00:22:14I spend all the summers there at Saratoga for XBTV.
00:22:18And the overload and the cost for the trainers, workers' comp included,
00:22:24it's just unbelievable the amount of money these guys have to shell out.
00:22:29Now, Shosberg, not really a surprise to me.
00:22:31Thankfully, we won't lose him in this game of horse racing
00:22:34because he's doing some marvelous work with aftercare,
00:22:38and he is the perfect spokesman for that.
00:22:40A really, really good guy.
00:22:42But the cost, it's just insane.
00:22:45If you're a trainer in New York, you'd better be winning a whole lot of races
00:22:49because it is almost unaffordable.
00:22:51And especially going to Saratoga, if you don't have a second home there,
00:22:54you have that extra cost.
00:22:56No one's reaching out and saying, here, here's a house.
00:22:58Come live in my house for the summer.
00:23:00You're forking out $15,000 for a house.
00:23:03He's making $55,000 a year,
00:23:05and he's got to pay $15,000 for a house in Saratoga?
00:23:08You just cannot do it.
00:23:11As for Dale Capuano, I was actually surprised.
00:23:14It looks like he's just said enough.
00:23:16He's done enough.
00:23:17He wants to enjoy his retirement, not get up at 4 a.m. every morning.
00:23:21I mean, I can attest to that.
00:23:23And so I wish him the best of luck and have some fun in a career
00:23:27that really has been all based around the mid-Atlantic circuit.
00:23:31And he's a terrific guy, a wonderful horseman,
00:23:34and it's good to see him going out on top.
00:23:37Yeah, I mean, it's getting tougher and tougher for these guys.
00:23:40I mean, we all love the sport.
00:23:41We like to be around it, stay as close to it as we possibly can.
00:23:45And that's what keeps a lot of these trainers going,
00:23:47the love of the sport of horse racing, the love for the animal.
00:23:51But, you know, I mean, Zoe, Bill, you've talked to these guys over the years,
00:23:55and some of these trainers will tell you, you know,
00:23:57I haven't had a vacation in 25 years.
00:23:59You know, I haven't had a vacation in 35 years.
00:24:02It's a tough life even when things are going well
00:24:07and even when they're making a lot of money.
00:24:10But now you get a situation where the rise of the super trainer,
00:24:14guys that are training 200, 250 horses at a time,
00:24:18are crowding out some of the little guys,
00:24:20making it tougher and tougher for the little guys to succeed.
00:24:25Workers' comp, as you pointed out, is astronomical.
00:24:28The general costs of everything have gone up.
00:24:34You've got situations now in medication where, you know,
00:24:38you get 30-day suspension for 21 picograms of an overage.
00:24:42It adds considerably, I think, to the stress level
00:24:46that some of these guys have to endure.
00:24:49It's just a tough way to go.
00:24:51So it doesn't surprise me at all that guys like Capuano and Shostberg
00:24:56are bowing out a little earlier than we might expect.
00:24:59And frankly, I think we can probably look to see more of these situations happening.
00:25:07Yeah, it's really a shame that, you know, again,
00:25:09these are not 3% trainers that win two races a year.
00:25:12These are very good horsemen that this is happening to.
00:25:15So last weekend, kind of a quiet weekend,
00:25:19we had the big card at Gulfstream Park with a preview for the Pegasus World Cup card.
00:25:24Before we get to that, I thought there was one 3-year-old that,
00:25:27and again, I'm not going to put him in my top five or something like that in my derby list,
00:25:31but Oaklawn sort of unofficially kicked off the road to the Kentucky Derby for 3-year-olds
00:25:36because the Smarty Jones was the first 3-year-old race of the year run on January 1st.
00:25:40And victory formation looked pretty good.
00:25:42It was his first start beyond six furlongs, stretched out.
00:25:45And if you looked at T.D. Thornton's top 13 that he does for the TDN,
00:25:51he already put out his first list of derby contenders.
00:25:55Red Hawks has four on that list.
00:25:57So now I don't think any one of them were in T.D.'s top five.
00:26:01So, you know, he doesn't have a forte.
00:26:04But, you know, it looks like he's got a very strong hand.
00:26:08Randy, any thoughts on victory formation?
00:26:11I thought he looked pretty good.
00:26:13I mean, I think he probably deserves to be in anybody's top 15, maybe top dozen.
00:26:18I don't know what was behind him necessarily in the Smarty Jones, but he did it the right way.
00:26:24And, you know, you talk about Brad Cox not having a forte.
00:26:28He's got Loggins, who probably was a better horse than forte in the Breeders' Futurity at Keeneland.
00:26:34A lot of us felt that way, right?
00:26:36Cox has got, obviously, victory formation.
00:26:39Loggins, he's got Instant Coffee that won the Kentucky Jockey Club at Churchill Downs.
00:26:43He's got Jace's Road that just won the Gunrunner at Fairgrounds on the day after Christmas.
00:26:49The same day, he had a three-year-old named Corona Bolt, or a two-year-old at the time,
00:26:54that ran a hole in the wind at Six Furlongs in a race called the Sugar Bowl.
00:26:59He's a son of Bolt Dorough, obviously.
00:27:01They're going to stretch him out.
00:27:02He had a 97 buyer speed figure.
00:27:04He's got Giant Mischief, who was beaten in the Springboard Mile but ran a winning race.
00:27:09He had some early trouble and looked sensational in defeat in that race.
00:27:14He's got Verifying, who was second in the Champagne and sixth in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:27:19And he's probably got four or five more back in the barn that haven't even run yet that are exceptionally well-bred
00:27:24that we'll be talking about as the weeks progress.
00:27:26Wouldn't surprise me at all if, when we get to Kentucky Derby Day, Cox had three last year.
00:27:32If the combination of Cox, Todd Pletcher, and the horses currently in the barn of Bob Baffert
00:27:38have half of the 20 starters that wind up leaving.
00:27:40Yeah, very well contained, sure.
00:27:42Would not surprise me at all.
00:27:44He's got three of the top six on the road to the Derby points system already.
00:27:49Yeah, I mean, talking about super trainers, we're going to have a whole show about super trainers now.
00:27:55We've just got three we can talk about.
00:27:57One can't even run in the Derby.
00:27:59Looks like Tim Yaktin might have a good year.
00:28:01Yeah, right.
00:28:02Well, I guarantee you this, when we're doing our first show of 2024,
00:28:05we will not be talking about Brad Cox retiring or stepping away from the game.
00:28:10He, you don't have to worry about anyways.
00:28:13So, Zoe, the big card at Gulfstream Park, a lot of the races were preps for the big Pegasus World Cup turf
00:28:21and Pegasus World Cup Invitational Card.
00:28:24What were some of your takeaways from, I don't know if they call it Pegasus Preview Day or not,
00:28:28but it's as good a name as any.
00:28:30Definitely Pegasus Preview Day.
00:28:32I think we saw a breakout performance from Skippy Longstocking.
00:28:36Now, he beat his stable mate in there, O'Connor, who was also trained by Safi Joseph.
00:28:42That horse ran fourth, and he actually went off the favorite.
00:28:45Safi Joseph saying he split a shoe going down the backside.
00:28:48He has glue-on shoes, and it basically broke in half, so he only ran with half a shoe on.
00:28:54That was the excuse for O'Connor.
00:28:56Skippy Longstocking jumped something on the backside and took a really awkward step
00:29:01that scared the bejesus out of anybody that was watching.
00:29:04It looks like those two will go forward.
00:29:07Hopefully, they get invited.
00:29:08White Abario will be in there.
00:29:10So, it looks like it's shaping up to be a very, very good Pegasus World Cup.
00:29:15Looks like we'll see Cyberknife, unfortunately, making his last start of the year for trainer.
00:29:21Oh, what's his name?
00:29:22Brad Cox, that guy?
00:29:24I really wish that was one of the horses that we would see carry on through the year.
00:29:28He's the son of Gunrunner.
00:29:30He'll be going to stud.
00:29:31It will be really awesome to see what he could have done this year, but we're not going to see that.
00:29:36I thought the preview for the Pegasus Turf was a very good one.
00:29:40What did you guys think of Colonel Liam?
00:29:43Because I don't think he got an awful, awful trip from the 12-hole,
00:29:47and it was a first start in quite some time, but he looked flat down the lane.
00:29:52The City Man and Decorated Invader looked terrific for Christoph Vermont,
00:29:55and they'll go forward for the Turf.
00:29:57But Colonel Liam looks like he's going to go, but it wasn't quite what I was expecting.
00:30:02Zoe, I would have come up with the exact same adjective to describe it as flat,
00:30:07and you can't say it's because of the long layoff, because this horse has come off these long layoffs before,
00:30:13and they have not been an issue.
00:30:15And Todd Pletcher does not give a horse a race.
00:30:18I mean, obviously, he wants to win the Pegasus Turf more than he wants to win the Fort Lauderdale Stakes,
00:30:23but his horses are ready to go first time off the bat.
00:30:26So I thought it was a big disappointment.
00:30:29Can he win the Pegasus Turf?
00:30:31I suppose, but he's going to have to run back to his very best form, and he can't run that race again.
00:30:37That won't get it done.
00:30:38It won't even come close.
00:30:39Yeah, I completely agree.
00:30:40I mean, he won the Pegasus Turf last year.
00:30:43He's probably not going to be the favorite after that performance this year.
00:30:46I mean, maybe this is looking for logical explanations where there is no logical explanation,
00:30:51but I believe even before Colonel Liam's last race that when you look at his past performances,
00:30:58most of his better races have come when he's up close in very slow fractions,
00:31:03and he's able kind of to dictate things or be sitting right there.
00:31:07And in races that are very aggressively paced, that seems to be his weakness.
00:31:13And this race we just saw at Gulfstream Park was a very aggressively paced race,
00:31:18and he kind of came up a little bit lacking in the last eighth of a mile.
00:31:22We're going to be there for NBC for the Pegasus Turf and the Pegasus.
00:31:25Right now, the list of probables for the Pegasus World Cup, not just Cyberknife.
00:31:30I think the top three, if you had to rank them, would be Cyberknife, Zandun,
00:31:36who is still somewhat on the fence with Chad Brown, Proxy, who won the Clark, right?
00:31:41Top four, I guess. Defunded.
00:31:43Trained by Bob Afford, he's considered to be a contender for the Pegasus World Cup
00:31:48after his win in the Native Diver and, of course, before that in the Awesome again.
00:31:51So it's going to be – and also, also, Bill.
00:31:54Bill, double crown, trained by Norman Lynn Cash, is also on the list of possible invitees there.
00:32:01So there you go.
00:32:02But he'll have to find a prep that same week.
00:32:04He's got to run on Wednesday coming into the Pegasus World Cup car,
00:32:09because he can't possibly come back on, oh, two weeks rest, something like that.
00:32:12So a lot of big – a lot of love for Norman Lynn Cash. He's my man.
00:32:19The Lane's End Stallion of the Week is Tonalist, son of Tappet,
00:32:23who was the leading fourth crop sire in 2022, primarily because Tonalist is the sire of Country Grammar,
00:32:30who made only $10.9 million in 2022.
00:32:35It's just incredible, isn't it?
00:32:36What a win in the Dubai World Cup and a second in the Saudi Cup will get you in yearly earnings.
00:32:42Tonalist, the sire of Country Grammar, stands for $10,000 this year at Lane's End.
00:32:48Coming up next, our talk with Frankie Dettori, where Country Grammar will be mentioned.
00:32:52But first, this message from Lane's End.
00:32:56Tonalist, a four-time Grade 1 winner with 11 triple-digit buyers,
00:33:01including the Belmont Steaks and the Cigar Mile.
00:33:04He's already living up to his potential as a sire with multiple Graded Steaks winners,
00:33:10including Grade 1 winner Country Grammar and Grade 2 winner Tonalist Shape,
00:33:15plus multiple six-figure yearling and two-year-old sales.
00:33:19Proven on the track. Proven in the sales ring.
00:33:23Tonalist, standing at Lane's End.
00:33:27The Green Group Guest of the Week, sponsored by The Green Group,
00:33:30an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry
00:33:34with over 500 clients in the horse business.
00:33:38The Green Group has proven strategies to save you taxes,
00:33:41and you can learn more about that at www.greenco.com.
00:33:47Welcome in now to Green Group Guest of the Week, and it's a big one.
00:33:50We're really happy and proud to bring Frankie Dettori into the fold for the TDN Writers' Room podcast.
00:33:56Frankie, welcome. It's such a thrill to have you, not just on the podcast,
00:33:59but to have your writing services in the States at Santa Anita for the next several weeks.
00:34:04And my first question for you, what did opening day mean to you?
00:34:08I mean, even with your great record overseas, you were no guarantee to do all that well here.
00:34:13Three wins on opening day. What did that mean?
00:34:16Did you send a little bit of a message there?
00:34:19Well, look, basically, as you know, I decided to call it a day this year, 2023, hopefully at the Breeders' Cup.
00:34:32So I was approached by the Stora Group if I was interested to come to Santa Anita,
00:34:41golf stream, blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, why not? This is my last year.
00:34:46This is where I started when I was a teenager in 1987.
00:34:54This is the first time I came here. And I said, why not?
00:34:59And then I got the ball rolling a little bit.
00:35:01I mentioned it to Ron Anderson, who is one of the best jockeys aging around.
00:35:06And he was very interested to take me on as he was sending Johnny V here.
00:35:16So that made a big incentive for me to come over.
00:35:26And then basically I was kind of thinking of doing a bit of a South American tour.
00:35:33And then Ron said, listen, if you want to hit the ball, if you want to do well,
00:35:40you should be up for opening day. It's a massive race day.
00:35:44And at least you should and you are committed and you're taking it serious.
00:35:48So that was actually forfeiting the fact that I wasn't going to be home for Christmas.
00:35:56But my kids are now old enough. They don't believe in Santa Claus anymore.
00:36:00They want this cash in the bank account. So that made my decision easier.
00:36:06And my wife, she said, listen, since it's your last year, go out there and enjoy it.
00:36:11And, you know, I mean, Christmas is just like another dinner, really.
00:36:16So, yeah, I left. And Simon Callahan, my good old friend, he's put me up at the moment.
00:36:25And yes, and like I said, I didn't, you know, I knew opening day was big,
00:36:31but I haven't been here for so many years. I forgot how big it is.
00:36:35You know, having 41,000 people, I mean, it's pretty remarkable.
00:36:39And to my misbelief, to see me jumped up on Country Grammar on the first day, I went, oh, my God.
00:36:50I mean, talking about he's one of the best horses in America on the first day.
00:36:55So the pressure was on, you know, and like a true champion of the horses.
00:37:00And Bob Buffer was a great trainer. He delivered in style.
00:37:05So he gave me, you know, up to that race. I was, you know, I'm not lying to you.
00:37:12I was nervous. And, you know, but it's, you know, it's a lot of pressure.
00:37:16A lot of pressure was on. All the eyes were on me.
00:37:19But he did the job. And after that, I was able to enjoy the day.
00:37:24And obviously winning for Paul Rennan, he's been a big supporter of mine in the last few years in America.
00:37:32That was a great thrill, but we didn't expect.
00:37:38And then obviously, because I was staying with Simon, he really liked the filly and she won.
00:37:45So it was it was like a 10 out of 10 day. I can't I can't really ask for any more.
00:37:52And it was beyond my thinking that, you know, so, well, you know, if a country girl wins, I had a great day.
00:37:58But, you know, to get three on the board on the first day was amazing.
00:38:02Well, Frankie, in hiring Ron Anderson as your agent, there are two realities.
00:38:07Number one, he's going to put you on some good three year olds that are early contenders for the Kentucky Derby.
00:38:14And number two, as my good friend Jerry Bailey likes to say, Ron will put you on an airplane.
00:38:19Now, you you had mentioned sort of a 10 week plan when you came to America.
00:38:24If you get those kind of amounts, are you willing to extend that and maybe call an audible?
00:38:32Yeah, absolutely. Look, you know, I leave everything open.
00:38:37Basically, I did mention to Bob Buffer that if he's got a nice three year old for me to put me on and he just give me a thumbs up.
00:38:46Listen, at the moment, I'm planning to stay, you know, I'm trying to go to the Pegasus end of June and I'll come back here.
00:38:57I'll do Saudi Cup. Hopefully, fingers crossed, country drama, if it's healthy.
00:39:03And then I come back here, I want to do the big cap. And then by then, I will have a pretty good idea if I got a nice three year old or not.
00:39:11If I do have, I will extend with, you know, usually all the trials are beginning to develop in March and April, like the Santa Rita Derby and so on and so forth.
00:39:25So everything's open. At the moment, I've got two good three year old in Europe, Colts and Phillies.
00:39:36But, you know, if I get an American Pharaohs, that's a different ballgame.
00:39:43And so everything's open at the moment. So I'm not saying no to anything.
00:39:52Then also we have the Dubai World Cup in the end of March. So it's a lot to do.
00:40:00So I've got a, how do you say, a blank canvas and we'll make it up as we go along.
00:40:10And Frankie, that was going to be my next question. If you could win one more race, any race, anywhere in the world, what would it be?
00:40:20Well, I never thought that, you know, I rode in the Kentucky Derby once and it was an amazing experience.
00:40:27You know, he's American's most famous race, probably one of the world.
00:40:32And, you know, if I have an opportunity that I got a nice three year old, of course I'm going to roll the dice and give it a go.
00:40:37You know, as you know, this is my last year, so I'm not going to have any other opportunity.
00:40:43You know, also, you know, looking beyond the Kentucky Derby, the Melbourne Cup, you know, I never won it.
00:40:50It's a massive race as my wife's family are from Australia.
00:40:55So that means a lot. And another one in my own town, Newmarket, is the July Cup, the spring.
00:41:01So that are the three things that spring to mind.
00:41:04But, you know, of course, you know, I like to win them all again, you know, all the others ones that I've won already.
00:41:11So I'm a bit greedy in that sense.
00:41:16Frankie, you've also not only come to Santa Anita, but you've announced your retirement at the end of the year.
00:41:21And, you know, you're 52 years old. That's not young. It's not ancient.
00:41:26You're riding great. You're on top of your game.
00:41:28You know, certainly you've got to have three, four, maybe even five good years left in you if you decided to keep going.
00:41:34Why? You know, why now is the time to say I'm going to call it a day?
00:41:40Why? Because you actually don't tell me when.
00:41:47When after the British government came back home and had some time off and I was approaching my 52th birthday.
00:41:54And, you know, I still got the good rides. I still feel good.
00:42:00But then, you know, end of next year, I'll be 53.
00:42:04I want to leave a legacy where I finish on the top.
00:42:10This game is very fickle. You know, you can go from hero to zero in the space of a few days.
00:42:17I, at the moment, physically feel that I can give my owners and my horses and my trainers 100 percent.
00:42:26And I feel that if I can have one good year, it's time to move on.
00:42:36My heart wants to carry on. I mean, Mike Smith is a classic example.
00:42:40He's 57 and, you know, his riding is very best.
00:42:45But, you know, I feel that I don't want racing to stop me.
00:42:52I want racing. I want myself to stop.
00:42:56And I feel if I can manage to have one good year and finish at 53, I think.
00:43:02You know, because there is life after racing, too.
00:43:05I'm not talking about riding.
00:43:07Obviously, I like to get into the media. I like to be a commentator.
00:43:10I like to still be involved in racing.
00:43:12But I don't want to be old enough.
00:43:15I want to be young enough that I can jump and start something else.
00:43:20So I think after 36 years in Osado, I think it's pretty good going.
00:43:27So, Frankie, you mentioned legacy.
00:43:29And hopefully this year you'll have a lot more fine art to paint on that blank canvas that you were talking about.
00:43:35But as of right now, looking back on your career, you had the Sensational 7 at Ascot back in 96.
00:43:41What would you consider to be the most memorable moment in your career?
00:43:48Well, obviously, look, what I did in 96, you know, they made movies out of it.
00:43:54So I even now, 26 years later, I look back to it.
00:43:58But that is for sure my greatest achievement.
00:44:01Obviously, look, I've had some great thrills.
00:44:03I love to apply my trade in different countries, different challenges.
00:44:11And I mean, I've won races all over the world.
00:44:14You know, all the big ones are huge.
00:44:16Obviously, winning six Argo Triumphs, huge.
00:44:18The Derbys, the British Cups, the Japan Cups.
00:44:22So they've all been great thrills.
00:44:25I do enjoy challenging myself in different places.
00:44:33And that's one of the reasons that I'm really enjoying being here at the moment,
00:44:37because it's all new to me.
00:44:39But of course, I've ridden here before.
00:44:41But it's all new.
00:44:42I don't know the horses.
00:44:43I don't know the new riders.
00:44:46It is a good challenge.
00:44:48And that's what keeps me young.
00:44:52Frankie, on the flip side, do you have any regrets as you look back over your 35 plus years in your riding?
00:44:59Do you have anything you think you wish you could have done better or didn't do at all?
00:45:04Well, listen, nobody's had the perfect life.
00:45:07That's for sure.
00:45:10Maybe I wish I was as dedicated then than I am now.
00:45:14I mean, I work twice as hard now.
00:45:17But obviously, I have to because the body is not the same as it was 20 years ago.
00:45:22But, you know, I kind of partied a lot more then.
00:45:27I party a lot less now.
00:45:30But, yeah, look, you know, you can always do better.
00:45:39That's for sure.
00:45:40But, you know, I'm pretty satisfied that I did okay.
00:45:47Frankie, in some of the stories that have been written about you since you announced your retirement,
00:45:50there's some mention of Saratoga.
00:45:52And I realize, unlike Santa Anita, this meet right now, it's in the height of the British racing season.
00:45:57You know, certainly you might come in for a race or two as you have in other years.
00:46:02But could we see you in Saratoga for an extended period of time?
00:46:04That would be another certainly challenge for you in your career to win a bunch of races there.
00:46:11I haven't looked that far yet.
00:46:14Obviously, Saratoga is right bang in the middle of a European season.
00:46:22Most likely, it'd be like a kind of weekend appearances if I do do it.
00:46:27I don't think I will have the time to spend a good five weeks there because it's so much going on in Europe.
00:46:35And it'd be, you know, Europe has been my life.
00:46:41And I, you know, I have to give a bit back this year since it's my last.
00:46:47So I would say if I do come, it will be just for the big weekends.
00:46:54Frankie, you mentioned the riders that you're riding with right now.
00:46:57I've always wanted to ask you this question.
00:47:00When anyone watches, let's say, the Breeders' Cup races, it's very obvious,
00:47:05especially when the jockeys are coming down the stretch, to pick out the American riders from the European riders.
00:47:12Not that one style is better than the other,
00:47:14but they're typically very different styles that are easily distinguished, except for you.
00:47:21Even at Santa Anita this past weekend at age 52, coming down the stretch,
00:47:25you could have been Irat Ortiz or you could have been Joel Rosario.
00:47:29You could not tell the difference.
00:47:32How did you, being from Italy and riding in Europe for so long, how did you develop that riding style?
00:47:40So I did four winters when I was a teenager.
00:47:44That was very important because when you're young, you're absorbed like a sponge.
00:47:48When I came here in the late 80s, I was there when Bill stopped riding.
00:47:56And obviously it was Lafitte, Eddie De La Russa, Chris McCarron, Gary Stevens.
00:48:02I probably missed another five or six there, you know, Angel coming from the East Coast, Jerry.
00:48:08So when I was here as a young boy, I didn't want to be the odd one out.
00:48:16I want to try to look like them.
00:48:18So I really made a massive effort to copy the best of each one of those riders.
00:48:26And bear in mind, American race is pretty much about speed, aerodynamics, cutting the wind.
00:48:38That's why the style, American style, is more crouched behind the horse's neck.
00:48:44It's all about, you know, like you go on a bicycle, if you stand up, you're going to go slower.
00:48:50If you crouch down, you're going to cut the wind.
00:48:52So all those techniques and then, you know, then I tried different things.
00:48:58And that's, it all came to fruition in later years.
00:49:03But basically, this is where it all started, really.
00:49:06And if I do like I do now, it's because the vast majority of when I was learning was here in the U.S.
00:49:17Frankie, where did the flying dismount come from?
00:49:19And we hope to see more of it here at Santa Anita.
00:49:23It was great to see three.
00:49:25I don't think, are your knees going to hold up to do it every single race that you win?
00:49:29Because right now you're flying.
00:49:32I'm not going to.
00:49:33No, no.
00:49:34You know, the first day was different, right?
00:49:36It was a big crowd.
00:49:37It was different.
00:49:39Yeah.
00:49:40I mean, I'm going to take it easy a little bit because actually when you land there at the winner's circle, it's pretty hard.
00:49:47And I did break my ankle twice.
00:49:50So it was pretty small in the next day.
00:49:53Look, it's a bit of fun.
00:49:55I will keep it for the big races.
00:49:57I actually was here in, again, in the late 80s.
00:50:03Andrew Cordero used to fly over from New York and ride the weekends for Wayne Lotus.
00:50:10And when he used to win the big race, he used to jump off the horse like I do.
00:50:17So I kind of stole it from him, really.
00:50:20I'm not an imposter, but I stole it from him.
00:50:22And I took it back to Europe.
00:50:25Racing, of course, is a serious game, but it's also a bit of fun, you know.
00:50:31And we should bring fun to the audience or to the crowd.
00:50:36And, you know, it is a bit of fun, you know.
00:50:39And so I got to a point now that 30 years later, if I don't do it, they kind of expect me to do it.
00:50:46And if I don't do it, they boo.
00:50:47So I'm kind of, I'm a slave for my own thing, really.
00:50:52But, you know, it's a bit of fun and, you know, puts a smile on people's faces.
00:50:57And especially in the summertime when kids have their summer holidays, they come racing.
00:51:04They actually, they come to see me jump off the horse, really.
00:51:08Funny, right?
00:51:09Are you going to add that to your repertoire when you go into broadcasting?
00:51:13Because I'm always of the belief that this game sometimes is a bit stodgy,
00:51:18and we as broadcasters should be having way more fun.
00:51:23A hundred percent.
00:51:24You know, you know, look, it's, you know, racing is a million billion dollar business, you know,
00:51:32in breeding, in owning, in gambling.
00:51:34And, but, you know, it is a commodity.
00:51:38Nobody, you know, it's not life and death situation.
00:51:42We should enjoy it.
00:51:43We should, you know, we should be proud of what we got.
00:51:46We got an amazing sport with an amazing animal.
00:51:50I mean, I don't know anyone who has been racing and not enjoyed it.
00:51:56You know, just to go near the rail in the stretch and listening to them horses galloping by,
00:52:05the thrill of the noise, it's unique.
00:52:09I don't think, you know, I think sometimes we take it for granted.
00:52:12And, you know, I'm very proud of what we do.
00:52:15I'm very proud of my sport.
00:52:16And, you know, I want to sell as best we can.
00:52:18You know, a lot of, there's a lot of negativity about a lot of things.
00:52:22But overall, I think we've got an amazing sport and we should be proud of it.
00:52:27So Randy, is Frankie going to make a good broadcaster?
00:52:30Let's critique him.
00:52:31What do you think?
00:52:33Stay in the UK, Frankie, and don't try to get a broadcasting job in America, OK?
00:52:40Sure, sure.
00:52:41No, yeah, look, it's very easy to talk about something that you love, you know,
00:52:45and I love racing so much.
00:52:48You know, we have, like I said, I was born into it.
00:52:51I'm lucky.
00:52:52I mean, 36 years, I don't call it a job.
00:52:55It's been a hobby and it's been lots of fun.
00:52:58You're out here all winter.
00:53:00You're staying with Simon Callaghan.
00:53:01What are you guys doing for fun?
00:53:04I'm going to the Lakers tomorrow, where I've never been.
00:53:07Nice.
00:53:08Yes.
00:53:09And I'm waiting for the good weather to turn.
00:53:12I wouldn't mind playing a bit of golf as well.
00:53:16Listen, there's lots to do here anyway.
00:53:18So I skied here before, back in the day, in Big Bear.
00:53:24So that's a possibility as well.
00:53:26But, you know, like you said, Ron is going to keep me pretty busy.
00:53:29I'm still going to go to Florida.
00:53:30So, yeah, the time will go quick.
00:53:34Very good.
00:53:35Well, say hi to LeBron James for us at the Lakers game and enjoy that.
00:53:38So, well, Frankie, yeah, go ahead.
00:53:41Well, if he sees me, because I'm only five foot.
00:53:43He's like a giant.
00:53:44He might step on me.
00:53:46Yes, we will find out about that.
00:53:49Who knows?
00:53:50Maybe LeBron's a big Frankie Dettori fan.
00:53:51You never know.
00:53:52So, yes.
00:53:53Very good.
00:53:54Well, Frankie, thanks so much for joining us here on the TDN Writers Room Podcast.
00:53:57Congratulations on your early success at Santa Anita.
00:53:59Keep it going.
00:54:01Big kiss.
00:54:02I'll see you at Santa Anita.
00:54:03Okay.
00:54:04Cheers, Frankie.
00:54:05And again, the Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by the Green Group,
00:54:08an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:54:12And as this week's Guest of the Week, Frankie Dettori will receive a free one-hour tax consultation.
00:54:19Learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:54:22And we'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
00:54:26Why do the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisor?
00:54:30We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
00:54:33Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport.
00:54:38His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies
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00:54:48For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100.
00:54:54Or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
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00:55:01Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program.
00:55:04The best in North America.
00:55:06But we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:55:08The PA Horse Breeders Association is funding cutting-edge research at PenVet
00:55:13to detect gene doping in thoroughbreds.
00:55:15And we endorsed the SAFE Act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:55:20Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs set up by our horseman's groups.
00:55:24Just a few of the reasons why you should join us in Pennsylvania.
00:55:28The premier place to breed and race.
00:55:31The Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association's Stallion Season Auction
00:55:36will be held January the 15th through the 22nd.
00:55:39You can visit ThoroughlyBred.com.
00:55:42That's an online marketplace to register prior to the auction and view the available seasons.
00:55:47Now, that auction includes stallions from all states, or from many racing states, including Kentucky.
00:55:52But some of the Pennsylvania stallions represented in that auction.
00:55:56Wicked Strong, new to Pennsylvania for 2023.
00:55:59As well as Capo Kane, Peace and Justice, Uptown Charlie Brown, and more.
00:56:05Well, one of the stories that broke while we were taking our little Christmas break
00:56:08was that Trakus has gone out of business.
00:56:10Trakus, of course, was the timing service used by, I'd say, what?
00:56:15About nine, ten tracks, something like that.
00:56:17It started in 2006, was the new wave of timing races using a lot of bells and whistles, whatnot.
00:56:24Now, their going out of business means that right now,
00:56:27the only alternative to the old-fashioned beam system,
00:56:31which goes back, Randy knows specifically, back to the 30s or 40s or something like that,
00:56:36is now G-Max. G-Max is going to pick up some more customers.
00:56:40I think the Daily Racing Forum reported that G-Max is going to come into New York now.
00:56:44Randy Moss, I know at this Christmas, you didn't get any presents from Equibase, G-Max, or the Jockey Club.
00:56:51With you talking and me writing, you have been the number one outspoken critic of G-Max
00:56:58and have rightly pointed out that it's just not that good.
00:57:02The times are inaccurate, and often case, and that gave you
00:57:06and your cohorts of the Buyer Speed figures a lot of headaches.
00:57:11Is this going to cause more problems now that G-Max is apparently going to become even more a force in Thoroughbred Racing,
00:57:19or have they gotten their act together?
00:57:21I didn't get a Christmas present or a Christmas card in 2022, 2021, 2020, and I totally understand it.
00:57:29Look, I've been a critic. Let's start off with a little love for Equibase and the Jockey Club.
00:57:37First of all, they have acknowledged that the GPS component of the G-Max system is not ready for prime time
00:57:49as it pertains to the pinpoint accuracy needed to time Thoroughbred Races in the United States.
00:57:57So therefore, to try to correct those deficiencies in the G-Max system,
00:58:02Equibase, in combination with American TeleTimer, which Equibase actually purchased a couple of years ago,
00:58:09have invented a beam that is wireless.
00:58:14I mean, most of the beams, almost all of the beams, literally all of the beams that we're accustomed to seeing
00:58:21in the United States timing races back to the 1930s are hardwired with this, you know,
00:58:27incredibly complex network of wires going underneath the turf courses and underneath the infield.
00:58:33It's a logistical nightmare, but it has been very, very accurate.
00:58:37And now there are wireless beams that Equibase is currently using for the G-Max system to record the final times of horse races.
00:58:46So those times that were so inaccurate that we complained about for so long have now been repaired.
00:58:53The final times the G-Max tracks are accurate.
00:58:56The fly in the ointment here that still exists is that the fractional times, as we sit here right now, are still being done via GPS.
00:59:06So the fractional times are inaccurate within maybe two fifths of a second, sometimes three fifths of a second.
00:59:13Not good enough for handicapping, especially fractional times.
00:59:17But Equibase is investigating ways to correct that by using some of those portable beams at points of call during the race,
00:59:26as well as the start and finish points of the races.
00:59:29So hopefully we can get all this ironed out sooner rather than later.
00:59:34I think Equibase has done the right thing in investigating the use of GPS for all things regarding timing and tracking and thoroughbred racing.
00:59:48It's just that right now, the GPS that's available is not precise enough and or accurate enough for timing purposes.
00:59:59They are still looking at different versions of GPS that hopefully in the not so near future can be accurate enough within a few centimeters, supposedly, to be used for both timing and tracking.
01:00:12And when that happens, it'll be good for everybody.
01:00:16It really is, Bill, the next wave, and Zoe, the next wave in handicapping, right?
01:00:22When you can accurately have average stride length for each sixteenth of a mile, accurate being the key word,
01:00:30and you can factor in the difference in racing surfaces with coefficients,
01:00:37and you can determine in a horse's past performances at what point the horse typically begins to shorten stride.
01:00:44You can factor in pace into that.
01:00:46There are so many different elements that are going to be brought into play with technology.
01:00:51We just got to get to the point where it's accurate.
01:00:54What about the live racing?
01:00:56Are we still going to have the chiclets?
01:00:58Because sometimes it's impossible to see if you've got flight line 28 lengths in front and everyone else behind, you can't see them.
01:01:05So are chiclets staying? Because I love chiclets.
01:01:08GMAX also has a robust chiclet system, as well as the tracking and as well as the timing.
01:01:19Whether it's as accurate right now as the TRACAS system, I don't know.
01:01:25I was a fan of that.
01:01:26I thought the TRACAS, the old-fashioned antennas in the infield TRACAS system was supposedly not very cost-effective for racetracks.
01:01:36It was very expensive.
01:01:37I think that, in the end, was the reason why it didn't expand and why they had to go out of business.
01:01:42But from what we saw at the major racetracks, what was published on TRACAS.com, I was a fan of the TRACAS data.
01:01:51It wasn't always 100% reliable, but it was better than what we had before.
01:01:56I used it.
01:01:57The chiclets, I thought, were very accurate.
01:01:59But GMAX does have its own chiclets, yes.
01:02:02Well, a big weekend coming up at Santa Anita with preps for horses that may wind up in the Kentucky Derby and Kentucky Oaks.
01:02:08Zoe, tell us more.
01:02:10Yeah, absolutely.
01:02:11I think everyone knows in Southern California we've been building an arc of late.
01:02:15We canceled racing this past weekend on one day, and everything has been pushed forward.
01:02:21So, Saturday, we have basically a terrific card, over $900,000 in stakes racing for CalBREDS.
01:02:28It's Sunshine Millions Day on Saturday at Santa Anita, and those are always really, really good betting races to get stuck into.
01:02:36And then on Sunday, we'll have the Sham Stakes.
01:02:38Could well be Bob Baffert v. Bob Baffert, but I think Spun Intended is going to be going in there for trainer Mark Glatt.
01:02:45We'll see Speedboat Beach.
01:02:47Bob thinking he's probably better on the dirt than he is on the turf.
01:02:50And then the Santianez got washed off last weekend, and we'll get to see Justique.
01:02:56It's not all about the boys, guys.
01:02:58Let's talk about some of these fillies, because I firmly believe that the road to the Kentucky Oaks may be the best road to follow if we're thinking Justique, who's your filly?
01:03:08And several others I can't rack off the top of my head.
01:03:11Wonder Wheel.
01:03:12Hey?
01:03:13Wonder Wheel.
01:03:15Oh, yeah, Wonder Wheel.
01:03:16How could I forget Len Green and Wonder Wheel?
01:03:18But go to XBTV and take a look at Justique's most recent work on January the 2nd.
01:03:24She's usually a horrible worker.
01:03:26She works like a $20,000 claimer.
01:03:28This is probably an allowance horse working that we saw her off late, and she's doing as good as I've ever seen her.
01:03:35She was odds-on to win the Santianez, and I think she is the filly to beat this coming weekend.
01:03:40Yeah, Len Green just called.
01:03:41Your one-hour tax consultation has been not available anymore.
01:03:46You're having to pay for it.
01:03:48Who's your filly?
01:03:50Who's your filly?
01:03:52These three-year-old fillies are really going to be worth following.
01:03:55It's already shaping up as an interesting road to the oaks.
01:03:59Yeah, I think that's going to be my new segment.
01:04:01I'll talk about the girls, and you guys can wax lyrical about the boys.
01:04:06The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:04:09The XBTV Workout of the Week is none other than Speedboat Beach, seen working here six furlongs in 1-12-1.
01:04:18He's done his best running on the turf course, but I think his best running to date is going to be on the dirt course.
01:04:23It looks like he'll go forward in the sham stakes.
01:04:25He's a Grade 3 winner of the Cecil B. DeMille, and we look forward to seeing him in the sham on Sunday.
01:04:32We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
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01:05:58Meanwhile, West Point has a cult that has now emerged on the derby trail.
01:06:02Jace's Road took the December 26th Gunrunner stakes at the fairgrounds,
01:06:07and they also have a horse pointing for the Pegasus Cup turf.
01:06:11The turf-decorated Invader was second in the Fort Lauderdale stakes on New Year's Eve.
01:06:16Trainer Christophe Clement said the six-year-old is on track for that race Jan 28.
01:06:22The Remy cartoon is in for this week, and he has a horse going down the backstretch.
01:06:26No jockey aboard.
01:06:28See the jockey back at the starting line with the curson and says,
01:06:32have you ever had that feeling that you forgot something back at the start of the day?
01:06:35Well, this horse did. He forgot to bring his jockey along with him.
01:06:38Well, that is a wrap on our first show of 2023.
01:06:41I hope you enjoyed it.
01:06:42I want to thank my cohorts, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin,
01:06:45our producer, Patty Wolf, our associate producer, Katie Petruniak,
01:06:49our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aaliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson,
01:06:53and, of course, our mascots, Lucy and Boosh.
01:06:55Doodle, doodle.
01:06:57Happy birthday, Bill.