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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning, it is 914 Wednesday, March 16th.
00:00:28This is the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
00:00:31My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:32I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:34Honestly surprised to see Bill Finley here, considering the news that the baseball lockout
00:00:39is over.
00:00:40I thought he'd just be running around streaking all week.
00:00:42Well, you won't see me the next four or five weeks as I'll be up at Fenway Park.
00:00:46Definitely that.
00:00:47Joe, good morning.
00:00:48This is Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:50Last night, someone talked me into watching the finale of The Bachelor.
00:00:55Two hours of my life.
00:00:56I'll never get back.
00:00:58Did you find love?
00:00:59Did they actually find love?
00:01:00I guess so.
00:01:01Whatever.
00:01:02Sure.
00:01:03I'm sure the sponsors found a lot of love.
00:01:05That was the most important thing.
00:01:07Jonathan Green, General Manager of DJ Stable, and I know baseball is important and The Bachelor
00:01:12is certainly important, but guys, can we talk a little bit about the NCAA tournament and
00:01:16how it's right on, you know, we already had like the play-in round already and now the
00:01:21big dance is going to start, but most importantly, my Richmond Spiders, my little Richmond Spiders
00:01:26went into the 8-10 conference sixth seed and knocked off like three of the top seeds and
00:01:32earned a bid to play Iowa on St. Patrick's Day.
00:01:36So go Spiders.
00:01:38Congratulations.
00:01:39Good luck to your itsy bitsy Spiders in the tournament.
00:01:43Looking forward to that.
00:01:44Right.
00:01:45Do you know that we actually, we named a horse years ago, Richmond Spider?
00:01:48No.
00:01:49And, and, and to this, to this day, it has as many wins as, as I do.
00:01:55That's always there.
00:01:56We'll get to that.
00:01:57We'll get there.
00:01:58We'll get there.
00:01:59Hopefully a writer's room in Philly will, will have a better career.
00:02:04The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland, a reminder that the Keeneland April
00:02:07Horses of Racing Age sale is Friday, April 29th.
00:02:11After that day's races, that'll be closing day of the spring meet.
00:02:14Spring meet opens April 8th, which is just three weeks away from Friday.
00:02:17So we're obviously looking forward to that.
00:02:19Entries for the April Horses of Racing Age sale are open right now.
00:02:22We had a little bit of a mild weekend on the, on the racing front.
00:02:26Tampa had a very nice car.
00:02:28Classic Causeway was the star in the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:02:31Once again, it'll be interesting to see what he does.
00:02:33I assume he's going to go straight to the, do the helium thing and go straight to the
00:02:37Derby.
00:02:38I can't imagine him running.
00:02:39No, Joe, they're, they're said to go in the boat.
00:02:41Okay.
00:02:42Thanks, Bill.
00:02:43Yeah.
00:02:44I was, and that seems like a lot.
00:02:45These days, that's a lot for three-year-olds played before the Derby, but that's interesting.
00:02:48So he was the star, there were a couple other nice performances.
00:02:51It's going to be a little quiet on the Derby trail for the next couple of weeks.
00:02:54We've got nothing going on now.
00:02:56Next Saturday, we've got the fairgrounds of Louisiana Derby card, as well as the UAE Derby.
00:03:00But it's a classic causeway looked good.
00:03:03Not as good as, as in the Sam Davis.
00:03:05What'd you, what'd you guys think?
00:03:06Yeah, Joe, he's an interesting horse.
00:03:08He definitely looked good, but you know, if you want to, you can nitpick a little bit
00:03:12here, starting with the Bider number.
00:03:14He got an 84 in the Tampa Bay Derby, which is slower than a Sam F Davis, not by a lot.
00:03:19He went from an 88 to an 84, but an 84 is not going to win the Kentucky Derby.
00:03:24It's not even going to come close.
00:03:26Now I'm not ready to say this horse isn't good enough or fast enough to win the Derby.
00:03:30I think, you know, he's kind of going out there and doing what he has to do to beat
00:03:33inferior competition.
00:03:34And, you know, I think he's probably another level there and I'm glad to see that he's
00:03:40going into the bluegrass because first of all, I think that's the right way to thing
00:03:43to do by the horse.
00:03:44And it's an opportunity to win a huge grade one race.
00:03:47And then that race will really find out how good he is, I think.
00:03:51And you know, he's interesting, you know, really good horse, but is he maybe just a
00:03:56cut below the very best?
00:03:58That's what I would say right now.
00:04:00The other story out at Tampa on Saturday was with Aquila closed and Laurel closed for the
00:04:05weather, he handled $20 million on the Tampa Bay Downs card.
00:04:11I mean, that is just like, those are Saratoga Gulf Stream numbers.
00:04:15So congratulations to Tampa for putting on a great show last Saturday.
00:04:18Yeah.
00:04:19And like you said, Joe, it's going to be thin news over the next couple of weeks with
00:04:24regard on the racing front, at least for these three-year-old Colts.
00:04:28Cles de Causway, I think did enough to win.
00:04:31You know, he didn't really need to do anything other than break on top.
00:04:34And Ired did a nice job of controlling the pace at that point and just easing him, you
00:04:38know, quarter to quarter to quarter and really was never in doubt that, you know, once he
00:04:43broke on top.
00:04:44Again, you look at the card and you look at that group and you say, how many of these
00:04:49horses are going to be making any kind of noise in the upcoming preps other than Cles
00:04:54de Causway?
00:04:55And it'd be, I'd be hard pressed to find anybody in that race that I feel is really going to
00:04:59make an impact over the next couple of prep races.
00:05:03But he did what he needed to do.
00:05:04I mean, it's kind of like, you know, when you have a football team and you say, oh,
00:05:07well, all they did was beat up on the also rants.
00:05:10Well, that's the way the schedule laid out.
00:05:12And that's actually, you know, great management, you know, by Brian Lynch and the owners of
00:05:17Cles de Causway.
00:05:18You put them in the in the path of least resistance where you can get the most points and you
00:05:21earn the most money and you continue to move on down the line.
00:05:24And, you know, if he did decide not to run in another prep race, you can make a case
00:05:29for it that he's done enough to run in the Derby.
00:05:31But Bill, to your point, his numbers aren't good enough right now.
00:05:34They're just not good.
00:05:35They're good enough to do what he's doing right now.
00:05:36But he's got to improve.
00:05:37And you'd like to think that a Giants Causway is going to be a little bit later developing
00:05:41and maybe he will have the potential to improve, you know, going forward.
00:05:45We've talked ad nauseum about how all these top three year old prospects are also, you
00:05:49know, front running horses.
00:05:51So what's going to happen when he gets a buzz saw and actually has to, you know, push faster
00:05:56than a 48 and a 113, you know, for six for four and six for lungs, respectively?
00:06:01I don't know if he's got the constitution to be able to withstand that kind of a race,
00:06:06you know, run run where there's a lot of speed favoring horses.
00:06:09Another race that I wanted to just talk about briefly is I thought CeCe ran very impressively
00:06:15in the Azari, you know, sitting off the pace and making a very patient run and really went
00:06:21by the rest of the field in that grade, too, almost like they were standing still.
00:06:26And it was and it was a solid group.
00:06:28There weren't there weren't a lot of horses in there.
00:06:29There were seven horses in there.
00:06:30If you take a couple of climbers out there, you know, it was it was five or so horses
00:06:35that were that were in there.
00:06:36But CeCe, you know, did what she needed to do to beat Pauline's Pearl.
00:06:39And she dares the devil, who was the favorite in the race.
00:06:42And I was I was impressed that, you know, coming off a four week turnaround that that
00:06:46she could win that that grade, too.
00:06:48And, you know, again, she looks like that she's continuing to blossom and doing really
00:06:52well as a six year old.
00:06:54Yeah, she's she's a really nice horse.
00:06:56And shout out to Michael McCarthy and Bo Hirsch for keeping her in training.
00:07:01She's probably going to end up in the house with Apple Blossom Blossom next.
00:07:05Larry Air, actually, who's coming back later today at fairgrounds, do you ask me and said
00:07:09that that's probably going to be a prep for the Apple Blossoms?
00:07:11That's always a very, very nice grade one for holders, fuller fillies and mares this
00:07:16early in the season.
00:07:17As for classic causeway, you know, the pace was so much easier this time.
00:07:23And that's what I honestly expected him to really explode away in the stretch.
00:07:27And he didn't do that.
00:07:29And it was just he ran so much harder in the same days that maybe you think he might have
00:07:32regressed a little bit in this race, which is perhaps why he's trying to get another
00:07:38prep into him so he can get back into that top form by the time the derby comes around.
00:07:42But yeah, it wasn't you know, I want to pat myself on the back a little bit, but because
00:07:47grant them ran second at thirty seven to one, remember what I was saying about those horses
00:07:51coming out of the withers?
00:07:52I think a lot of them are going to run big at big prices going forward.
00:07:55But yeah, overall, that field, you know, once classic causeway broke like that and was able
00:08:00to get get away with that kind of lonely lead, the race was over.
00:08:03And there's never anybody that was really going to try to challenge him like Paco did
00:08:08in the Sam Davis.
00:08:09So, you know, that that kind of seemed like a foregone conclusion.
00:08:12I expected him to run away from those horses a little bit better than he did.
00:08:15He wasn't under super hard urging from my right or tease.
00:08:18He just breaks so sharp that I think even if you kind of even if you wanted to rate
00:08:22him, I don't know that you necessarily could because he's such a sharp gatehorse.
00:08:27And I just I don't think he's fast enough to run with the forbidden kingdoms and epicenters.
00:08:32I just think he's you know, he might be a cut below right now.
00:08:36And that's unfortunate for me because I have him in the contest and we can throw up the
00:08:40slate right now.
00:08:41That was the only action only change over the weekend in the contest.
00:08:45I got 50 points for classic causeway.
00:08:47So now I'm breathing down Bill's neck only ten points back.
00:08:50Bill's got one hundred.
00:08:51I got ninety.
00:08:52Al's got sixty.
00:08:53And then Sue, who has the leftovers.
00:08:55Don't forget.
00:08:56Don't forget the leftover team, Sue and John pulling strong with five points so far, but
00:09:02still a lot of stuff, a lot of a lot of races to go.
00:09:04This was the last 50 point race of the of the derby prep schedule.
00:09:09Going forward, there's going to be they're going to be 100 point races for the winners.
00:09:13Just I agree with what John said about CC, but I thought the other really interesting
00:09:17horse from Saturday was bleaker street in the hills in the great two Hillsborough at
00:09:22Tampa Bay.
00:09:23This is five for five now for Chad Brown.
00:09:26You would think an undefeated Chad Brown horse would have had a little bit more name recognition
00:09:30by this point.
00:09:31But I got to be honest that I didn't really I hadn't really heard of that horse before
00:09:34that race.
00:09:35And, you know, he ran great.
00:09:36He really kicked away in the stretch, really finished up fast.
00:09:38We got a ninety four buyer, which I guess is nothing to write home about in a grade
00:09:42two.
00:09:43But, you know, just just seems like a kind of a an advancing, improving horse.
00:09:49Chad Brown also won the Florida Oaks with Dolce.
00:09:51Zell was a shipper by Zell Zell was a French stallion.
00:09:56Another big day for Irada Ortiz, he won the Columbia, he won the Florida Oaks and he won
00:10:00the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:10:01So, yeah, you know, a decent weekend of racing.
00:10:04But I just thought in even in victory classic causeway, it was a little bit disappointing.
00:10:08I don't feel as good about his Derby, you know, chances and prospects as I did going
00:10:15into that race.
00:10:16But still a lot of time and it's gone.
00:10:17I'm glad we're going to be able to see him again before the Derby.
00:10:21And I just wanted to mention, too, we had a couple of new rising stars over the weekend,
00:10:25one at Gulfstream, one at Oaklawn.
00:10:27On Saturday, it was a cult named We the People was owned by Windstar in partnership by Constitution.
00:10:33Another great name.
00:10:34I feel like those constitutions really lend themselves to having good names like John
00:10:37had one, you know, Amendment 19 was a really good one.
00:10:40And so I like We the People a lot.
00:10:42Ran in an allowance optional claimer at Oaklawn and really was kind of tossing his head about
00:10:47early on, but just ran away really powerfully in the stretch.
00:10:50New rising star and also green up on Sunday at Gulfstream for Todd Fletcher as a Team
00:10:56Valor horse.
00:10:57Supposedly had been working up a storm, got hammered down to two to five and really just
00:11:01galloped home.
00:11:02So those two are very interesting.
00:11:03It's an upstart Philly upstarts really starting to come along as a stallion as well.
00:11:08So I thought those two were interesting.
00:11:10And Rudy Brissett says that We the People is going to be on the Derby trail now.
00:11:13He says he's probably going to run him in the bluegrass.
00:11:15He's only run a couple of times, but, you know, why not?
00:11:19That's also one thing I wanted to ask you is, you know, we're going to talk about this
00:11:22with the Secret Oath news, but it just doesn't seem like there's any superstars yet on this
00:11:28three-year-old trail.
00:11:29You know, you want to say Messier, I could buy that he may or may not be able to run
00:11:34in the Derby.
00:11:35Other than that, I think you have a lot of nice horses, but I don't think you have anybody
00:11:38that you have to be super, super scared of.
00:11:40Any thoughts on that, Bill or John?
00:11:42Yeah, I definitely agree with you, Joe.
00:11:44But, you know, right now we have to reserve judgment.
00:11:47Like you talked about Messier, I, you know, we don't get the kind of information out of
00:11:50Baffert that we used to prior to all the Medina Spirit things, as he doesn't, he's careful
00:11:55about what he says to the media now.
00:11:56But I assume that horse will go in the Santa Ana Derby, and what if he runs off and wins
00:12:00by 10?
00:12:01Again, you know, then you would have that kind of hype, that kind of hype surrounded
00:12:05with what the heck is going to happen, whether or not this horse is going to be able to run
00:12:08in the Derby or not.
00:12:10And the same thing, I think, with Forbidden Kingdom.
00:12:12Those are the two that are the most exciting and have the most potential, I think.
00:12:16And, you know, just like I said about Messier, what if Forbidden Kingdom goes out, wins the
00:12:20Santa Ana Derby, you know, by six, seven lengths, just runs them off their feet again.
00:12:24So yeah, you're right now, there are no horses at this point that, you know, look like they're
00:12:30going to be the obvious no-brainer favorite for the Derby.
00:12:34But I think there's a couple that could, you know, vault into that position between, you
00:12:39know, now and Derby Day, depending on what they do in the last series, perhaps.
00:12:44I know when I was picking my horses for the contest, and granted, you know, I'm in last
00:12:47place, so who the hell, you know, thinks that I did a good job.
00:12:50But that being said, like, there wasn't a standout.
00:12:53There wasn't a horse where, with the number one pick, it was like, oh, OK, I'm definitely
00:12:57going to, you know, select, fill in the blank as my horse and kind of ride off into the
00:13:02sunset and win this contest.
00:13:05And I think now that we're, what, six weeks past that point, you know, from when we did
00:13:10the draft, four weeks from when we did the draft, there's still not a standout.
00:13:13There's still, as a matter of fact, there's not, if I said to you, pick three horses out
00:13:17of the group that you think, you know, would be the favorite in the Derby, we'd still
00:13:20probably get it wrong because there's just not, they just haven't developed to that
00:13:25point yet. And granted, when we did the contest, I remember, you know, we talked about
00:13:30how, like, five of the past six years, a horse, you know, the horse that won the
00:13:35Kentucky Derby was still an A other than at that point.
00:13:37Like, it's still, it's still early, even though, you know, we're approaching these
00:13:41hundred point races and that, you know, the rubber is going to meet the road really,
00:13:45really soon. But for the most part, there's there's not that, like, awe inspiring
00:13:50horse. As a three-year-old colt, I will say, and we were talking about this before the
00:13:55show, like Echo Zulu is still the horse that, you know, the three-year-old, at least
00:13:59Grinch is a filly, still a three-year-old that captures my attention and imagination.
00:14:05You know, are they going to run her, you know, in the Derby?
00:14:08Who, you know, who knows?
00:14:10I mean, I don't know that that's a big stretch, especially because she hasn't even
00:14:12made her three-year-old debut yet.
00:14:14I know it's coming, but hasn't made it yet.
00:14:17But yeah, when you look up and down the top 12 or the top 20 horses as Derby
00:14:22contenders, there's there's nothing that that, you know, makes you gravitate and say
00:14:27that's the one. There's some exciting horses, but there's not like that that one
00:14:31horse, like almost like with again, with the NCAA tournament coming up, it's not like
00:14:35that hands down, you know, number one, let's pick Duke in the 90s or UNLV, you know,
00:14:41before that. There's no real dominant horse where you go.
00:14:46That's the one. That's the one that excited me and captured my attention, you know,
00:14:52for this Derby drill.
00:14:53But we have a lot of races to go and a lot of points that will get shifted around.
00:14:58So I like where I'm sitting right now, you know, in last place.
00:15:02I'm like a closer. You guys are the front runners.
00:15:04I'm the closer and I'm just going to bide my time and wait and wait and wait.
00:15:07And, you know, I'll be I'll be holding the trophy up like like Terry Finley did.
00:15:11And, you know, with Obi's dream, just John, the Richmond Spiders have a better chance of
00:15:15winning the NCAA tournament than you do winning this contest.
00:15:18Oh, challenge accepted.
00:15:20Bill Finley, how dare you?
00:15:22Oh, my goodness.
00:15:24Just one more point. I think that's that what we're saying is confirmed by the future
00:15:28wager over the weekend, because, you know, first of all, the field was still favored.
00:15:32But the the shortest price individual interest was Smile Happy, who didn't even win his
00:15:37first race as a three year old.
00:15:39He only run once a three year old and he lost.
00:15:41But he's six to one.
00:15:43He's the lowest price of any of the twenty three individual interests in the Derby future
00:15:47wager. Obviously, that's affected by Messier and the whole Baffert situation.
00:15:50But I just think that speaks to how that's there.
00:15:53There isn't a clear leader right now.
00:15:56The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Kingland, as I mentioned, the open.
00:15:59We're just a few weeks away from the Kingland spring meet.
00:16:02Super looking forward to opening weekend starts April 8th.
00:16:05A green one, bluegrass headlines opening weekend.
00:16:08And this week, Brian Lynch, as we mentioned, said the Tampa Bay Derby winner Classic
00:16:11Causeway is probably pointing that way.
00:16:13So it should shape up as one of the most exciting Derby prep races of the year, as it
00:16:17usually is. You know, a lot of big races at the Kingland spring meet.
00:16:21We got the Ashland.
00:16:22We got the Commonwealth actually has come around and become a nice race for sprinters.
00:16:28We got the Madison, the Maker's Mark, the Jenny Wiley.
00:16:31You know, it's a big opening Saturday.
00:16:34John, what's your what would you say?
00:16:36You know, you want to see the bluegrass, but what would you say otherwise is your
00:16:39favorite race at the Kingland spring meet?
00:16:41I kind of I feel like you're going to say the Ashland.
00:16:43Yeah, the Ashland. I mean, just exactly.
00:16:45You're exactly right, because we won it so many years ago and it's just always been near
00:16:49and dear to my heart. And it's funny because when we won it, we had no clue the
00:16:53importance of it. You know, we were just like, oh, this is great.
00:16:56You know, it's Keeneland. And and it wasn't until later on where I really had such an
00:17:00appreciation for not only racing at Keeneland, but winning a race of that magnitude
00:17:05at Keeneland. And guys, I can remember this was like in 91 when we won it.
00:17:09So now it's ancient history. It's 30 years ago.
00:17:12But I remember walking out of Keeneland and we had the trophy in the car and we like
00:17:17seatbelt into the backseat of the car.
00:17:19And we drove downtown and went to went to Dudley's for dinner.
00:17:24And we walked in and when we walked in and again, we're like, you know, it was me and my
00:17:28parents from New Jersey.
00:17:30Nobody really knew who we were.
00:17:31And we walked in and everyone in the restaurant gave us a standing ovation.
00:17:34And I was like, this is great.
00:17:36I love thoroughbred racing.
00:17:37What could be better than this?
00:17:38And like we didn't pay for our meal.
00:17:40We did. You know, it was it was just a really cool feeling.
00:17:43And but that's how much racing is intertwined with Lexington.
00:17:47That's how much Keeneland means to, you know, to the sport and to the industry in the
00:17:52region. When you win a race at Keeneland, irrespective of whether it's the Ashland or a
00:17:56claiming race, it's a big freaking deal.
00:17:58And it's like front page news in the sports section of the Lexington Herald, you know,
00:18:04and you're a celebrity for that, you know, for those for those few minutes.
00:18:07So, you know, racing at Keeneland has always been really special for me.
00:18:10We're going to bring horses to Keeneland again with Mark Cassidy.
00:18:13We're going to run coinage in the Transylvania.
00:18:15We're going to run glider in the Lexingtonian.
00:18:19So, you know, so we're we're going to be having a group of horses there.
00:18:23And I'm really excited that we're going to go as a collective group for the for the
00:18:27writers room and have our show there in that setting, because I don't think that we
00:18:32can really describe to the audience that you've never been to Keeneland for the race
00:18:36meet. It's just a magical place.
00:18:39You go back in time.
00:18:40It's like it's like there's two racetracks where I say that, you know, Saratoga and
00:18:45Keeneland, where you just go and you're part of the community and everyone's so
00:18:49excited about racing and nobody's talking about the negatives of racing.
00:18:53Everyone's talking about the excitement and what's going on that day.
00:18:56And people get dressed to the nines.
00:18:57It's just it's it's like Disney World for for for racetrackers.
00:19:02I can't I can't describe it any better than that.
00:19:05It's a magical place.
00:19:06You hear that, Keeneland, Lexington.
00:19:08John wants the red carpet treatment every time he wins a race there.
00:19:11Demand it. We demand it.
00:19:13Damn it. We're going down there with Joe Bianca, a six hundred thousand dollar
00:19:16underbidder. That's right.
00:19:19Some respect on my name.
00:19:21We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:19:29Keeneland Racecourse is the most beautiful racetrack in America, hands down.
00:19:34Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you to the breeding stock sale.
00:19:37Book one. Good to have you back with us.
00:20:13And the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:20:25It was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.
00:20:28Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:20:30Tis the law. Pops the cork and the champagne.
00:20:33Tis the law is going to win the first leg of the Triple Crown.
00:20:37I've never seen him get tired.
00:20:38Respect the law. Tis the law.
00:20:41His structure is just perfect.
00:20:43His bone is perfect.
00:20:45He's left the others behind.
00:20:46He's going to win the Run Happy Travers.
00:20:48He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:20:55The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:20:57After day one of the OBS March sale, which started yesterday, already been some high
00:21:01dollars, high dollar sales for Ashford's three first crop sires.
00:21:05Mendelsohn had the highest price filly of the first session.
00:21:08Half-sister to Derby hopeful Simplification brought $525,000 yesterday.
00:21:13Definitely got to keep an eye on those Mendys throughout this season.
00:21:16And then he had a Colt go for $350K.
00:21:19Also Motown, son of Uncle Mo, stands for just $7,500 this year, had a Colt go for $260,000.
00:21:25To West Point Thoroughbreds and our boy Terry Finley, who we talked to yesterday.
00:21:29And Justify only had one go through the ring the first day, but the Colt brought $250,000.
00:21:34He's got four more going through the ring later today at OBS.
00:21:38This kind of ties into our last segment about how there aren't really too many scary three-year-olds,
00:21:43at least at this point on the Derby trail.
00:21:46So I think that was part of the reason, at least, that DeWayne Lucas and the connections
00:21:51of Secret Oath have chosen to go into the $1.25M Arkansas Derby, which is April 2nd.
00:21:58So she's going to take on the boys.
00:22:00I said before that I thought this was a good idea, especially in Arkansas.
00:22:04The Arkansas three-year-olds really have not shown you anything awesome so far.
00:22:10In the past, we had horses like Nadal winning the Rebel, where you kind of could scare off
00:22:14some horses.
00:22:15But Secret Oath is going to go in the Arkansas Derby.
00:22:17Doesn't sound like she's going to go in the Kentucky Derby right now.
00:22:20Judging from the quotes from DeWayne Lucas, it looks like the Oaks is still on the schedule.
00:22:25I just wanted to read you some of the quotes from DeWayne Lucas.
00:22:28He said,
00:22:29We don't make these decisions, meaning the owners and myself.
00:22:31We don't make them easily.
00:22:32We consider all the things, all of the things.
00:22:35First of all, you absolutely want to think that you are as good as any of the other three-year-olds
00:22:38that might show up.
00:22:39You don't really know who's going to show up.
00:22:40Second, you got to consider that she's here at home.
00:22:42If you're going to step out of the box, that's probably a good spot to do it.
00:22:46She's been successful at this racetrack.
00:22:47The third thing is a $1.25M purse is probably the most attractive purse she'll ever run for
00:22:53outside of the Breeders' Cup.
00:22:54So that tells you that they're probably not going to go in the Derby.
00:22:56And the owner said,
00:22:57Wayne and he talked about it before the Honeybee.
00:22:59They wanted to see what her performance looked like in the Honeybee and then see what the
00:23:03Rebel looked like and see how she did in her first workout after the Honeybee.
00:23:06He said,
00:23:07We feel like we ought to give her a chance to run against the boys and see how that goes.
00:23:10That's kind of how we thought about it.
00:23:12And then DeWayne Lucas added that he's got the Oaks on the schedule.
00:23:16That's where he's going.
00:23:17They have no plan to run in the Derby now.
00:23:19He says that's not chiseled in stone either, but that's the way the Mitchells who own her feel.
00:23:24They don't want to run in a 20-horse field.
00:23:25They feel like the Oaks is every bit as prestigious.
00:23:30If she runs in the Arkansas Derby and wins off by 8-10 lengths,
00:23:33I feel like it's going to be very hard to ward off the calls for her to run in the Kentucky Derby.
00:23:39But if you go and look at the sheet numbers, the buyer figures,
00:23:42she doesn't stand out as much.
00:23:43But if you look at the sheet numbers, she's been running a one and a half in her last two races.
00:23:48And just for comparison's sake, Classic Causeway, who was odds on in a 50-point race over the
00:23:52weekend, had only run fives in his previous race.
00:23:56So she's right up there, figure-wise, with these boys.
00:23:59And it's always good to see trainers step out of the box.
00:24:01What do you guys think?
00:24:03Joe, first of all, she doesn't have to win the Arkansas Derby by 8-10 lengths.
00:24:07If she wins the Arkansas Derby, she's in the Kentucky Derby.
00:24:09I mean, Wayne, you're not fooling anybody here.
00:24:11Come on, pal.
00:24:13It would make no sense to take this chance and run the Arkansas Derby
00:24:16and then take the step back to run in the Kentucky Oaks.
00:24:20So that, I think, is a no-brainer.
00:24:23I love this move.
00:24:25For one thing, it's nice to see an American horse trainer actually take a chance
00:24:28and do something a little bit outside the box, which outside of Kenny McPhee, we never get anymore.
00:24:33And you're right, Joe.
00:24:36If Baffert were coming in with some killer who was going to be, you know,
00:24:40one is like a Messier or something like that, then it wouldn't be the best shot.
00:24:45But the Rebel stunk and I think John disagrees with me,
00:24:51because I know we've talked about this a little bit off the air,
00:24:53but she'll be the favorite in the Arkansas Derby.
00:24:57So if you have a horse that's going to be the favorite in a $1.25 million race,
00:25:02why not go for it?
00:25:03I mean, I know the other one, the fantasy is nothing to sneeze at at $600,000,
00:25:07but the purse is double.
00:25:08And also, if you don't go in the Arkansas Derby,
00:25:12you have no chance of running in the Kentucky Derby because you get no points.
00:25:16John, you mentioned about Echo Zulu.
00:25:18And, you know, is she better than the boys?
00:25:21Well, we're not going to get a chance to find out because she's going to run
00:25:24one time in a traditional Philly prep.
00:25:27Well, the Fairgrounds Oaks will have no points for the Kentucky Derby.
00:25:30So they're in a position where they can't make that decision.
00:25:33I love it.
00:25:33Good old D. Wayne.
00:25:34You know, it's nice to see him in there and mixing things up.
00:25:38And D. Wayne has a history of doing this.
00:25:39Let's not forget that, you know, he ran and won the 88 Derby with winning colors.
00:25:46And, you know, so he's got a he's got a game plan and a way of doing this.
00:25:52And, you know, to your point, Joe, about, hey, this isn't a scary group.
00:25:56I mean, nobody's going to confuse this group of three-year-old Colts that are
00:25:59currently running at Oaklawn with Charlton or Nadal or Omaha Beach or Classic Empire,
00:26:05American Pharoah, you know, that won a number of the of the of the races.
00:26:11They are in such derbies of recent memory.
00:26:15You know, and Bill, I hear what you're saying as far as, hey, why not run her as the favorite
00:26:20in a million dollar race versus something that's going to be, you know, half the value
00:26:25as far as from a purse standpoint.
00:26:27And so she runs against the boys and doesn't run well.
00:26:30And then goes off and wins the Oaks and has a good three-year-old Philly year
00:26:35for herself.
00:26:35She still probably is going to be an eclipsed ballot horse, if not, you know, if not a
00:26:40contender for the three-year-old Philly of the year.
00:26:42So, I mean, if she's going to run against the boys, this is the time to do it because
00:26:47the group is devoid of talent compared to her.
00:26:50It's the right distance.
00:26:51It's our home track.
00:26:52And D. Wayne has done this in the past.
00:26:55Do I think if it was my Philly, we would be doing this?
00:26:58No, we wouldn't.
00:26:59We'd be doing the path of least resistance and getting her to win because as a brood
00:27:03mare candidate, you know, whether she won the Rebel or the Arkansas Derby or the Honeybee
00:27:09or the Fantasy, you know, it's all in breeders' minds.
00:27:13It's all similar kind of races.
00:27:16Yeah, there's a little bit more cache for beating the boys.
00:27:18But if people really dig in and look to see who she beat in that race, they may not be
00:27:24quite as enamored with it as if she had won, say, the Oaks, you know, where that's really
00:27:29more of a signature three-year-old Philly race.
00:27:32And it sounds to me like even though it's not going to be as robust of a group of forces
00:27:37as far as numbers, the Oaks may have, you know, pound for pound the better group, especially
00:27:43if some of these Phillies come in that are rounding into form, whether it's Echo Zulu
00:27:47or Nest or, you know, some of the other ones that we talked about last week.
00:27:50The Philly group, in my estimation, is stronger than the Colts at this point.
00:27:56I don't know about all that.
00:27:57I mean, it's maybe at the top, but I feel like it's deeper.
00:28:02The three-year-old Colt division is deeper right now.
00:28:04But like you said, there's still some time.
00:28:06I'm interested to see when Echo Zulu comes back, how she's going to run because, you
00:28:10know, it's possible that she'll end up being scarier than anybody in the derby field, you
00:28:15know, and then that might affect the decision of DeWayne Lucas and the Mitchells for their
00:28:20secret oath.
00:28:20But I'm so happy to see it.
00:28:23You know, I just feel like I think that sometimes people get a little bit too obsessed with
00:28:28running the Phillies against the boys.
00:28:29But there comes a point in a Phillies career when she's beating up on all of her competition
00:28:36over and over and over.
00:28:37And I think of like, you know, Zenyatta and Songbird, and you're dying for them to really
00:28:44take a chance and really challenge her.
00:28:47Who knows where she ranks in the three-year-old Phillies?
00:28:50She's no lock to be champion three-year-old Philly.
00:28:52So this is taking a step out of the box early on and getting a real sense of where she stacks
00:28:58up with the three-year-olds across the country.
00:29:00So, you know, I obviously applaud and tip my cap to DeWayne and the owners because we
00:29:04love to see it.
00:29:05And it's going to add a lot of juice, I think, to a race that we weren't going to normally
00:29:09be excited about.
00:29:10This Arkansas derby, I don't think was going to be really a marquee race on the derby trail
00:29:14calendar like it usually is.
00:29:16But this is going to add a lot of excitement, a lot of catching of that race.
00:29:19So we're looking forward to that.
00:29:20The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Lane's End.
00:29:23This week's Lane's End Stallion of the Week is Xcelerate.
00:29:26The champion will see his first two-year-olds hit the track this year.
00:29:28He's already had a few go through the ring at OVS March, including a Philly from the
00:29:32family of grade one winner Roman Ruler.
00:29:34I always liked Roman Ruler.
00:29:35And now Corridor, who sold for $250,000 to West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:29:40West Point making waves again.
00:29:41And Tyler Racing, as well as a Colt, who's a half-brother to my boy, the multiple stakes
00:29:45winning New York bred Mr. Buff.
00:29:47He went for $200,000 to agent Mike Ryan.
00:29:50Five-time grade one winner, Breeders' Cup Classic winner, stands at Lane's End this
00:29:54year for $15,000.
00:29:56We talked to John Sadler a couple weeks ago when we had him on to talk about flight line.
00:29:59Talked to him off the air about Xcelerate.
00:30:01And he's heard a lot of good things about his two-year-olds.
00:30:04And I actually have heard the same stuff.
00:30:05I'm not as plugged in as the John Greens and the John Sadlers of the world.
00:30:08But I hear a lot of buzz about those horses as well.
00:30:10So definitely got to check them out at OVS March later today.
00:30:15And then later on in the spring at the Gulfstream sale in OVS, April as well.
00:30:19Look out for those Xcelerates.
00:30:20We'll be right back with this message from Lane's End.
00:30:44A grandson of legendary Lane's End stallion SmartStrike, Xcelerate stands to continue
00:30:49his grandsire's legacy at Lane's End.
00:30:54With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round, there's never
00:31:00been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:31:06Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing
00:31:11California, Florida, and New York.
00:31:15Kentucky breads.
00:31:16Breed them.
00:31:17Raise them.
00:31:19Race them.
00:31:20We all win.
00:31:25The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders.
00:31:28Kentucky breads are dominating both in the sales ring and on the racetrack this year.
00:31:33Kentucky breads have won five of the six Grade 1 races held in America so far in 2022.
00:31:38And 10 members of TD Thornton's most recent derby top 12 are Kentucky breads.
00:31:42And on a global scale, last weekend, Lighthouse became the most recent Kentucky bred Group
00:31:471 winner with a score in the Group 1 Coolmore Classic in Australia.
00:31:51Shout out to Ellen J. Foxwoods for taking a shot there, getting a big Group 1 win down
00:31:55under.
00:31:55And in the first session of the OBS March sale, nine of the top 15 highest-priced horses
00:32:01were bred in Kentucky.
00:32:03Speaking of OBS March, we talked to Terry Finley, the CEO of West Point Thoroughbreds,
00:32:07yesterday, a little bit before the OBS March Session 1 started.
00:32:11Great interview with Terry.
00:32:13He's obviously always a very insightful guy, talked a lot about the sales, talked a little
00:32:17bit about flight line, and just always good to talk to Terry.
00:32:20So check out our interview from yesterday, Terry Finley.
00:32:23The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by The Green Group, an accounting, tax,
00:32:27consulting, and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:32:30With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:32:35Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:32:39So back in the hot seat this week, I believe for the fourth time, one away from the five
00:32:43timers jacket, is West Point CEO Terry Finley.
00:32:46Thanks for coming on, Terry.
00:32:48Absolutely.
00:32:48Great to be with you guys.
00:32:50I think it was just about a year ago, right?
00:32:54You guys were set up in the back, and it was in the midst of the COVID situation.
00:33:00But I thought you guys, you did a great job coming down.
00:33:03I thought it showed a lot of the people that came to the March sale last year that we're
00:33:08starting to get this thing back to normal.
00:33:11Totally.
00:33:12And you actually led me in my first question perfectly, because I remember we were talking
00:33:16on the set last year about how the good vibes were starting to come back to Ocala.
00:33:20It felt like a little bit of a reunion for everybody down there.
00:33:24You're in Ocala now.
00:33:25The sale starts later today.
00:33:26What would you say the vibe is now compared to last year?
00:33:30I think it's solid.
00:33:34I know everybody's reading the news, and the terrible situation over in Europe and Ukraine,
00:33:42I think, is in the back of our minds.
00:33:44And the equity markets, especially over the last couple of weeks, in particular, the last
00:33:50two weeks, they've been turbulent.
00:33:52So I'm sure if I ran the sales company, I'd be thinking about those things.
00:33:57But I think overall that there's an air of optimism, but there are some restraints on
00:34:06that optimism.
00:34:07I don't think it's overflowing.
00:34:10But if the first 200 horses, if they're rocking and rolling, I think that optimism will surge
00:34:17in a big way, and the other way.
00:34:20And the other way.
00:34:21So I think the first couple hundred horses will set the sage, so to speak, on the two-year-old
00:34:31sales for the rest of the year.
00:34:32Yeah.
00:34:33And Terry, one of the exciting things about not only the fact that this is the first two-year-old
00:34:37sale, but there's a lot of good freshman sires that are being represented in the catalog
00:34:42with Good Magic and Always Dreaming, who is near and dear to your heart, and Mendelssohn
00:34:47and Bolteoro, and don't forget about Justify.
00:34:50When you guys look at a sale like this, are you keying in on the new sires?
00:34:54Give the audience an idea of what you're looking for with those new steps.
00:35:00Yeah.
00:35:00So we were talking about that today, John, going over our shortlists to get horses vetted.
00:35:09And one of the things that we were talking about, there are some pedigrees here.
00:35:14I'm saying on the lower end of the sire list, that if we went to the yearling sales, we wouldn't
00:35:21even look at, because there were pedigrees that I couldn't get our arms around.
00:35:25But I think the advantage for those kind of horses is they can come to the sale,
00:35:30and they can train up to the sale, and they can show well in the breed show.
00:35:35And the people who aren't just locked into the very top-end pedigrees are like,
00:35:39all right, he's very viable, or she's very viable.
00:35:43So I think that's a plus, especially for the people who buy horses.
00:35:49I've seen horses for $2,000 or $3,000 in this sale, and I've seen others for $450,000
00:35:55as a yearling price.
00:35:57So it spans the spectrum, which I think is great for buyers.
00:36:02But there are some really, really good sires.
00:36:04I'll give you one.
00:36:08Collected is one that I'm hearing a lot of good things about.
00:36:11And Bolt de Oro is another one.
00:36:15And all those others, they're getting some talk.
00:36:19But I think those two are the ones that people are somewhat intrigued by.
00:36:25But it's all about the individual.
00:36:28We know that.
00:36:29We've been in the game a long time, all of us.
00:36:32And I think that's what separates.
00:36:35When you can stand in front of them, and you can see their physical,
00:36:38and look at their stride lengths, and all that other data.
00:36:42But I agree.
00:36:44This is a very exciting young group of sires that are in the market.
00:36:49And they're trying to make a name for themselves.
00:36:52And they're trying to stamp themselves as a sire that could have a real nice future.
00:37:00You know, I always think of the sales as the NFL draft process.
00:37:05I feel like the breeze show is like Combine Day.
00:37:08You have your feelings about these horses on the paper, on pedigree,
00:37:12from talking to consignors, from hanging around the barns.
00:37:15And then the breeze is the Combine Day.
00:37:17You see there on the 40-yard dash, it might be a four or five.
00:37:20You thought it was going to be a four or four.
00:37:21So I kind of wonder about that, and how much the breeze impacts
00:37:25your preconceived notions about the horses.
00:37:28Like, what is the balance in terms of pedigree, in terms of all the other
00:37:31information you have, and then the actual breeze itself?
00:37:35Yeah, I think that's really one of the cool parts of a two-year-old sale anywhere,
00:37:43is the fact that you have a lot of different inputs.
00:37:46There are some consignors that you would see a 10-in-1.
00:37:51And knowing their history and the way they bring these horses to the market,
00:37:59a 10-in-1 might be very, very good.
00:38:01And so you look at that in your calculus, right?
00:38:05Then you see somebody else, and you see a bevy of 9-in-4s,
00:38:11and they have a horse work a 10-in-2.
00:38:15And you're like, in that program, this is a factor.
00:38:19But you're also thinking about the fact that to see a well-done 10-in-2,
00:38:30a 10-in-2 is a lot better than a really pressed, like a scrambling 9-in-4.
00:38:39And you talk about the way they come away from the pole.
00:38:43There are some that don't come away from the 8th pole as quickly as they probably could have.
00:38:49And therefore, a 10-in-2 on top of a good gallop out is going to pick our heads up.
00:38:58So there's so many things that come into play.
00:39:04And I know the vast majority of the big buyers have teams,
00:39:08but I think it's key to have somebody at the shoot,
00:39:12and they're able to take notes, and they're able to see,
00:39:14and they're able to hear them as they gallop out.
00:39:18And they see if they're being pressed in the gallop out.
00:39:21Some people say, this horse galloped out in 33 and change.
00:39:26But the people that are at the shoot are seeing that the kid is still whipping and driving
00:39:33into the turn and down the backside.
00:39:36So I don't know.
00:39:36I just think that art and the science, when you put all those together,
00:39:43I just think it's a fascinating situation for all of us
00:39:48trying to pick out the really good ones out of the 600 that are going to go through the sale.
00:39:54Yeah.
00:39:55And Terry, you mentioned a couple of key components,
00:39:57and that is the gallop out and how important that is,
00:40:01and also whether or not these horses are making noises
00:40:04as they're breezing and as they're galloping out.
00:40:08Give the audience an idea of when you look at it,
00:40:12when you look at the whole calculus, to use your term,
00:40:14and you're deciding between looking at horses,
00:40:17what's the most important thing?
00:40:18Is it the gallop out?
00:40:19Is it the notes?
00:40:20Is it the sire line?
00:40:22Give us the secret sauce.
00:40:24What is Terry Finley looking at first and foremost in making this decision?
00:40:29Well, John, I think first and foremost, there is no secret sauce.
00:40:33And we bring that up to prospective partners all the time.
00:40:38And I think that's a selling point to just acknowledge up front
00:40:42the obvious to all of us that have been in the game.
00:40:46There is no secret sauce.
00:40:49And I know a lot of us spend a lot of time and a lot of money
00:40:53studying this game.
00:40:54And I'd like to think we're all pretty smart or better.
00:41:00And I'd like to think that we would have identified that secret sauce.
00:41:03So it just depends.
00:41:07There's a small segment of the group of horses
00:41:09that are going to be sold in the next couple of days
00:41:11that on the surface are obvious.
00:41:14They put everything together.
00:41:15They pass the bet.
00:41:17They work really, really well.
00:41:20So those you don't have to really think a whole lot about.
00:41:23But when you think about the bell curve,
00:41:26the vast majority of them are in the middle.
00:41:29And so I think then you take a look at the comments from the consignor
00:41:35and the fact that you've done work with the consignor
00:41:39and you trust the consignor, I think is very helpful.
00:41:42And the way they've come out of the breezes and the way they're acting.
00:41:46Obviously, they've got a lot of stress on them.
00:41:48They breezed at the end of last week or on a Saturday.
00:41:53So I don't know.
00:41:55I think all those things.
00:41:56So I do know that you don't apply the same protocol for every horse
00:42:03because every horse comes at you in a different way
00:42:07and in a different fashion.
00:42:08So that's the way I would answer that question.
00:42:12It's a beautiful game when you are thinking that you have things
00:42:17and you're starting to get your process straight,
00:42:21but you always got to continue to improve your process.
00:42:24And I think we all look at people who are very successful in this game.
00:42:28And I think the one takeaway that I see time and time again
00:42:32is they always are trying to get better.
00:42:34And I'd like to think that we are as well.
00:42:36I mean, that's the thing about this game.
00:42:38You know, it's a lot of thrills, but it also kicks you in the ass
00:42:40and humble you too.
00:42:41And I think that's part of what keeps you coming back also.
00:42:45But we talked a little bit off the air about this,
00:42:47some of the new medication rules at the sales.
00:42:50And we've heard in the past about the banning of bisphosphonates,
00:42:53the banning of clambuterol.
00:42:55But you were talking a little bit about NSAIDs.
00:42:57And can you explain what the new rules are and what the impact might be?
00:43:03I sure can.
00:43:03So we think, you know, as a buying group,
00:43:06you know, the people I talk to think it's been a really good thing.
00:43:11Today, right, you can only use three NSAIDs.
00:43:15So that's one thing.
00:43:16And the other thing is you can't medicate any horse with anything,
00:43:19or you're not supposed to, up to 24 hours before the breed.
00:43:23So I think as a whole, right, that's going to give us,
00:43:30as time moves on and we see the impact of the changes
00:43:34and the updating of the medication rules,
00:43:37I think we're going to see people who are going to be thinking about that.
00:43:42You know, I'd much rather work this horse on 10 and 1
00:43:46and to have them be sounder after the breeze than 9 and 4
00:43:52and to be in a position where I can't treat them
00:43:55and he's really, you know, dinged up or tucked up
00:43:59or, you know, any of the things that horses do
00:44:04when they come out of a fast breeze.
00:44:05So, you know, I think overall, we are definitely headed in the right direction.
00:44:12And, you know, overall, I just think it's going to cause
00:44:16and it's going to put the real horseman and the better horseman in a better spot.
00:44:20And I think that's good for everybody when the true horsemanship, right,
00:44:24can come out in the product that those consignors
00:44:28and the sales companies are running through the ring and offering the market.
00:44:33Yep. And Terry, you were around when, you know,
00:44:37when I was looking at horses also early on at two-year-old sales,
00:44:40you know, many, many years ago.
00:44:41And I remember the 10 second eighth of a mile was like the glass ceiling
00:44:45and nobody was going to go faster than that.
00:44:47And now we have a horse that actually went in 9 and 3.
00:44:51Do you think that you and I are going to see the day
00:44:53where we get a horse that runs in 9 seconds?
00:44:56And is that good for the industry?
00:44:58Yeah, so I think it was probably,
00:45:02I do draw somewhat of a comparison with the four-minute mile, right?
00:45:06You know, everybody thought the four-minute mile and, you know,
00:45:10back then when we were growing up early, you know,
00:45:13we'd go to the trotters and we'd see a two-minute mile.
00:45:16And that would be, you know,
00:45:17that would be really something when they broke two minutes.
00:45:21Right now, the world record in the standard bred business is what, 145.
00:45:26So we're not going to see that kind of dramatic change
00:45:31in the times of the thoroughbreds.
00:45:33But look, I know that we can't dictate, right?
00:45:40The sales company can't dictate,
00:45:42the buyers can't dictate to the sellers to slow things down.
00:45:47You know, I understand that would be great if we could.
00:45:50But the takeaway though is that I think the consignors more and more
00:45:56see the real players in the game at the top end of the game, right?
00:46:00We can see, by and large, right?
00:46:03All of us have been doing it for a long time.
00:46:05So with a solid prospect,
00:46:08we can see that they've moved well over the racetrack
00:46:11and they've done all the things to put themselves in a position
00:46:16to be a possible good horse.
00:46:18And a stopwatch, we all know that a stopwatch is one part of the equation.
00:46:27And I don't know, I sense consignors are starting to get their arms around that.
00:46:33And I think that's a very, very good thing.
00:46:35And I applaud them, I really do.
00:46:39It doesn't do anybody any good to have these horses
00:46:41and to have a percentage of these horses after a fast breeze
00:46:48to be on a negative path.
00:46:49And there are plenty of horses that don't get to the races for any number of reasons.
00:46:55I'd like to think that we all love horses.
00:46:58We all advocate that we love horses.
00:47:00And I think we're taking care of horses when we dial things back.
00:47:06Knowing though, that we can't dictate that.
00:47:09I mean, like I was saying with the combine,
00:47:10like plenty of people have run fast 40 times and not become good NFL players
00:47:15because it's just a small sliver of what they're able to do.
00:47:19I think when you're in it, everybody's seen that Tom Brady, that 40.
00:47:24I don't know, what did he run?
00:47:25He ran a 5'1", 40 or something.
00:47:28And he didn't look good doing it either.
00:47:30That's the one thing you talk about.
00:47:32Not how fast they go, it's the way they go fast well.
00:47:37And we're all looking for those horses.
00:47:39But man, it's just crazy when you think about the good horses
00:47:45that come out of the two-year-old sales up and down the line.
00:47:48And when you look at the stats,
00:47:52it's a tough deal when you pay a lot of money for a two-year-old.
00:47:57There is some correlation.
00:47:59But I don't think it's a super strong correlation that you increase your odds
00:48:04by a big margin when you pay a lot of money.
00:48:06And we've done it.
00:48:07And I think we'll continue to do it.
00:48:12I don't think we'll continue to do it as much
00:48:14because I love the fact that the horsemen are coming forward
00:48:19and they're buying $25,000 yearlings.
00:48:22And they'll take a good profit.
00:48:25And I think those kind of transactions, I think we're seeing more and more
00:48:30the horses that end up in the Fountain of Youth.
00:48:32That colt that won the Fountain of Youth,
00:48:34he was not very expensive at this sale or at the April sale last year.
00:48:39So I don't know.
00:48:41It's just, you can look at data, you look at all the markers,
00:48:47it just comes down to trying to land on as many good horses
00:48:51and good prospects as you possibly can.
00:48:54And it's a frustrating game, but we all love it.
00:48:59We all love it.
00:49:00And it's because we know that any, I'll borrow a Cott Campbell term,
00:49:06any of us can catch lightning in the jaw at any sale, right?
00:49:12We all love that.
00:49:13We all love that about our great game.
00:49:15No, absolutely.
00:49:15And Terry, you mentioned before about good horsemen coming in
00:49:20and coming together and buying horses.
00:49:22And it seems like more and more that these top outfits
00:49:25are coming together and buying horses,
00:49:28whether it's Windstar in China Club or the Avengers,
00:49:31or we've even partnered up on some stakehorses as well.
00:49:35Who do you bring down with you for this sale?
00:49:38Because I'm sure you're going to be taking a swing in one of the top calls.
00:49:42Yeah.
00:49:44So David and Gordo and his team are really the advanced team for us.
00:49:50And we've worked together since 2017.
00:49:57This sale was the first time that we'd started back then.
00:50:02And one of the things I've learned,
00:50:04I try to stay out of his way.
00:50:07I acknowledge I'm more of a business person.
00:50:11I've been around the game for a long time,
00:50:13but I don't have hands-on experience at this level.
00:50:17And so, look, everybody wants to take the credit when things go well.
00:50:23Obviously, not so many people when things don't go well.
00:50:25But I found that really my job and I'd say focus is to let the pros
00:50:35do their thing and then come in towards the end of the process as we get closer to the sale.
00:50:42So I think we're starting to see the benefit of that.
00:50:46Because one thing I know you can't do is you can't buy by committee.
00:50:51I think it's been proven.
00:50:54Although there are some good horses that have been bought by committee.
00:50:59But I think by and large, when you see the successful operations,
00:51:04you're seeing one or two people that are the decision makers.
00:51:09I think that's very important.
00:51:11I know in our case that we coalesce between or behind David and Gordo and his team.
00:51:18And I think that gives them more latitude.
00:51:21I think that gives them more confidence.
00:51:23And we support them and we're there.
00:51:26And our job is to find partners and to develop relationships with trainers.
00:51:34And to run a business.
00:51:36But it really starts with buying good prospects.
00:51:40One of the partnerships that you've had that's been really successful is the one on Flightline.
00:51:44And we talked about this on the show.
00:51:45I've said it's maybe the best bargain for a million dollars you could ever have in buying
00:51:50a racehorse.
00:51:51Usually, that's a big risk.
00:51:52But this looks like it's going to hit big.
00:51:54So everybody wants to know about him.
00:51:56He's honestly the most talked about horse that I can remember in years,
00:51:59like probably since Justify won the Triple Crown.
00:52:02So first of all, how's he doing?
00:52:03But also, how does it feel to have that kind of horse who's so good and so popular?
00:52:08I imagine this is why you get into the game to begin with.
00:52:12Yes, I think anybody that buys horses and that plays the game, they wonder and they
00:52:22see those types of horses that Justify, the American Pharaohs.
00:52:25You think back when we were kids, all those good horses.
00:52:30Yeah, I think you dream about what does it feel like?
00:52:35What does it feel like?
00:52:36It is a special feeling.
00:52:39I'm not sure quite what I expected, but I asked myself on a continual basis,
00:52:47when is it going to be our time?
00:52:49When is our time?
00:52:50And then we got a couple indications when he was a two-year-old that he could be something
00:52:58special.
00:52:58I think everybody's heard that story.
00:53:01Now, we, as well as everybody else, we'd love to run him more.
00:53:07I think it's just one thing.
00:53:09The circumstances, he's not an unsound horse by any stretch.
00:53:14He just strained like a hawk and that took him out of training for three and a half,
00:53:21four weeks.
00:53:22But he's back to the racetrack and he's just about ready to turn around and start galloping.
00:53:26And we'll be there in New York on Belmont State's day for the Met Mile and we can't
00:53:33wait.
00:53:33And we'd love for it to be as solid of a field as possible because I think when he runs against
00:53:40those better horses, I think is the aura around him.
00:53:45And if he's successful, I think the aura will continue to grow.
00:53:54But we've got great partners on him.
00:53:59Everybody gets along.
00:54:00Everybody puts our support behind and in the hands of John Sadler.
00:54:07So I know John's happy with him and it'll be a long wait between today and late in the
00:54:15day on Belmont State's day.
00:54:17But we just hope that wait is worth it.
00:54:20But I will tell you overall to put a bow on it.
00:54:23It's an honor to be associated.
00:54:26We know horses, they do so much for us.
00:54:29And when you get one like this, it's very, very special.
00:54:33And it could be one of the ones that they talk about like a hundred years from now.
00:54:37Like that just puts a smile on your face.
00:54:42Yep.
00:54:42No, that's exactly why we do this.
00:54:45And Terry, you've gone all in.
00:54:47I mean, you even moved you and your family to Kentucky to be more involved in the industry.
00:54:52Subsequently, you have your fingerprints in what's going on in the industry.
00:54:57And you're a member of the Jockey Club.
00:54:59And tell us a little bit about what we can expect from the Jockey Club as far as continuing
00:55:05with safety protocols and making the industry better.
00:55:10Yeah, John, I'm certainly a proud member of the Jockey Club.
00:55:14I think they do a lot of good things.
00:55:19One thing I say to people because I'm at a sale, I see you and I see the players out
00:55:23in the industry.
00:55:26People talk to me all the time and they complain about something.
00:55:30And I understand the Jockey Club is not perfect.
00:55:35But I know one thing that their agenda, I think overall, the size and the scope of their vision.
00:55:46Jim Gagliano at the helm, I think that size and scope is really good for our industry
00:55:55overall.
00:55:56And their agenda is to just make our game better.
00:56:01And one thing I ask people is, what would our industry be like if we didn't have the
00:56:08Jockey Club and we had the desperate organizations and the horsemen's organizations and everybody?
00:56:15It's a tough game in that respect because we all compete against each other.
00:56:21We're all smart people.
00:56:24But we don't all look at the exact same situation in exactly the same way.
00:56:29So I think, especially in a time like this, where we've got several different
00:56:37challenges that we're dealing with as an industry as a whole, I think the Jockey Club
00:56:43and their impact and their vision, I believe, is serving us well in the times that we face now.
00:56:52Terry, thank you so much for coming on.
00:56:54I know it's a busy, busy couple of days for you.
00:56:56We appreciate you making time.
00:56:57Always good to talk to you.
00:56:58Absolutely.
00:56:59Same here, Joe and John.
00:57:00Really great.
00:57:03The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group, an accounting, tax, consulting
00:57:06and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:57:09As this week's Green Group Guest of the Week, Terry Finley will receive a free one-hour tax
00:57:13consultation.
00:57:14Learn more at greenco.com.
00:57:16Be right back after this message from The Green Group.
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00:58:22The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
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00:58:41Terry's been busy since we spoke with him yesterday.
00:58:43As we mentioned earlier, West Point purchased eight two-year-olds in the first session of
00:58:47the OBS March sale, including a $560,000 Colt by First Year Sire Cloud Computing,
00:58:53a filly by Adios Charlie, who worked in 20 and two, and a Colt by First Year Sire Collected,
00:58:58who Terry mentioned in the interview, from the family of grade one stakes winner Arch
00:59:03Arch Arch.
00:59:04So congratulations to all the partners at West Point for coming home with all those
00:59:07nice two-year-olds.
00:59:07Looking forward to seeing them on the track and best of luck on the second day of the
00:59:11sale later today.
00:59:12Had a little bit of news yesterday from Churchill Downs.
00:59:15You know, last summer we were lamenting the end of Arlington Park and the end of the Arlington
00:59:19Million card, but I guess it's not the end of the Arlington Million card.
00:59:22Churchill Downs announced that this summer, August 13th, they will host a special Arlington
00:59:28Million day at Churchill for stakes worth cumulatively $2 million, $1 million, Arlington
00:59:34Million, the $500,000 Beverly D, $300,000 Secretariat stakes, and $200,000 Pucker Up.
00:59:41They're also going to run a couple of other traditional Arlington stakes at Churchill
00:59:44this year, including the Modesty, the Arlington stakes, the Chicago stakes, the American Derby,
00:59:49and the Hanschen stakes.
00:59:51You know, on one hand, it's nice to see them keeping the tradition alive of all these stakes
00:59:55races that meant so much to Illinois racing and to the American landscape, for real, for
01:00:01that long.
01:00:02On the other hand, it seems a little bit like a slap in the face that you take their track
01:00:06and then you're going to take their races and run them as well.
01:00:08So I kind of feel both ways about this.
01:00:09What do you think, Bill?
01:00:11I don't.
01:00:11I think it's terrific, absolutely terrific, just because we never expected this.
01:00:15And, you know, to think that these races like the Arlington Million would go away, you know,
01:00:19one of the most historic, the first million dollar race ever in this country and all the
01:00:24history that it's had.
01:00:25But it's funny, Joe, when they put out the announcement yesterday, I put something on
01:00:30Twitter immediately afterwards.
01:00:32And I got it was the responses were just, you know, overwhelming.
01:00:37Ninety five percent of people just trashing Churchill downs.
01:00:40And I think there's so much animosity in the industry, even when they do something that
01:00:44at least I think was a really good move.
01:00:47People just can't stand them and they come out and call them greedy and all sorts of
01:00:53other terrible things.
01:00:54But, you know, I really think the glass is half empty to not think this is a good thing
01:00:59to bring these races back.
01:01:00Do I wish they were in Arlington Park?
01:01:02Of course I do.
01:01:03So does everybody else in the business.
01:01:05But once Arlington closed, that wasn't going to happen.
01:01:08And the alternative being either these races disappear or they get run at Churchill downs.
01:01:13I'll certainly take the alternative that they get raced at Churchill bounds, I guess.
01:01:18I kind of feel like I see both sides of this.
01:01:21I can see why if you're a diehard Arlington or Illinois racing fan and you grew up going
01:01:26to these races, you're not going to go to Louisville.
01:01:29You're not going to travel to Kentucky to go see the races that they took from your
01:01:33racetrack.
01:01:34Like, you know, I mean, Bill, like, wouldn't that put a sour taste in your mouth if you're
01:01:38an Illinois racing guy?
01:01:40Yeah, I completely understand that.
01:01:42And by the way, there's a, well, I don't know if it's a precedent or whatnot, but the
01:01:45Arlington Million didn't all, hasn't always been run in Arlington Park.
01:01:48It was run at Woodmine when they were rebuilding Arlington Park.
01:01:52Yeah, I mean, I think people that are Chicago racing fans, probably our colleague, Alan
01:01:56Carrasso, are just so bitter about losing the racetrack as well.
01:01:59They should be.
01:02:01It was a terrible, terrible thing that, you know, they would be like, you know, the Cubs
01:02:05not playing at Wrigley Field.
01:02:07They're going to play at Safeco Field in Seattle or something like that.
01:02:10You know, something bizarre like that.
01:02:12But I'll stick with what I said.
01:02:13You know, it's better to have these races come back than not have them at all.
01:02:17And, you know, I don't know, you know, I don't know what's to become of Illinois racing down
01:02:21the road.
01:02:22I mean, that's another subject that, you know, is really something we can delve into maybe
01:02:26when Hawthorne gets ready to run, you know, how they're going to make do with having split
01:02:30meets and no racing in the summer.
01:02:31But, you know, to me, I'm, you know, who else is excited?
01:02:34Chad Brown, because he wins every one of those races every single year.
01:02:38So he's excited.
01:02:40If Chad's excited, I'm excited.
01:02:41Yeah.
01:02:41And Joe, I said I know I said I didn't have anything to add to this, but you guys bring
01:02:45up a very good point.
01:02:46Like, how often do we see in our industry these like weekend boutique racing days or
01:02:52the one day and how well they do?
01:02:54Because it is it's like a unique destination site.
01:02:56So, you know, for Churchill Downs to come in and say we're going to have a date in August
01:03:00where we never race and work it out with Ellis Park, you know, through understanding that
01:03:04they're going to be able to allow that to have this one day meet.
01:03:08And top to bottom, it sounds like it's going to be a great card.
01:03:10So I'm all for this kind of boutique setting situation and have it be a one off.
01:03:16It seems like, you know, that of recent time, those types of dates have done very, very
01:03:21well for our sport.
01:03:23Yeah, well, and this is like I'm not I don't know if it's going to take the place of that.
01:03:27They might still do the other card, but Ellis kind of they run a card in mid-August, which
01:03:32is like Kentucky Downs preview day.
01:03:34They run a bunch of stakes that are kind of prep races for the Kentucky Downs races
01:03:38coming up in September.
01:03:39I'm not sure.
01:03:39It's unclear if this is going to replace that or if this is going to go alongside.
01:03:42I'm guessing it's going alongside it because they had to come up with an agree to come
01:03:46to agreement with Ellis in order to be able to run these races.
01:03:48But I think it might cannibalize those Kentucky Downs preview days.
01:03:51But yeah, you know, I agree with John.
01:03:53It kind of reminds me a little bit of when Keeneland ran because of COVID when Keeneland
01:03:57ran in July and it was like a short and truncated meet.
01:04:00I think everybody got really excited for that.
01:04:02And, you know, it's the purse is a million dollars.
01:04:05You know, we made fun of people.
01:04:07There would be a running joke in the past, the Arlington 500,000.
01:04:10Well, it's back up to a million dollars.
01:04:12You know, Churchill can obviously afford to do that.
01:04:14Also, in the press release, Churchill's maiden races are going to be $120,000 through the
01:04:20spring meet.
01:04:22And additionally, there's going to be a $250 bonus awarded to trainers whose start is finished
01:04:26fourth through last in all non-stakes races.
01:04:28We talked about, you know, when we do the Kentucky bread banter about how, you know,
01:04:33those purses at Keeneland and Churchill this year are going to be even more attractive
01:04:37than usual.
01:04:38So, you know, it's going to be it's going to be a great meet.
01:04:40It's going to be a lot of money up for grabs.
01:04:42They also released the Derby and the Oak Stakes schedule.
01:04:46So, you know, looking forward to that.
01:04:48But I just I understand if you're a Chicago person and you have a little bit of a rubbed
01:04:53a little bit the wrong way by this move.
01:04:54But yeah, I think overall, I agree with you guys that it is good that the tradition at
01:04:59least is going to be kept up in some way because these were at one point marquee races on the
01:05:04American racing calendar.
01:05:06The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Canterbury Park.
01:05:09We talked last week about what a great value it is to bet on Canterbury Park, obviously
01:05:13a great value as well to stable there.
01:05:16If you're an owner or trainer, Canterbury Park wants everyone to know that owners sending
01:05:19their horses to Canterbury when their meet begins on May 18th will be rewarded in addition
01:05:23to a $1,000 bonus for every starter in the month of May and a travel loan program, which
01:05:27we mentioned last week.
01:05:29Canterbury has announced yet another bonus program designed to encourage owners who raced
01:05:33in Illinois to race at Canterbury.
01:05:35So we were talking a little bit earlier about where those Illinois horsemen are going to
01:05:38go without Arlington Park.
01:05:39Canterbury is a great, very attractive option with the closure of Arlington Park and Hawthorne
01:05:44Racing only through June 25th.
01:05:45Canterbury officials see that opportunity to attract new stables needing a summer venue.
01:05:50Any Canterbury starter that raced in Illinois in 2021 or 2022 but has not previously started
01:05:55at Canterbury will be eligible for a $1,000 bonus in their first start of the 2022 season
01:06:01through July 17th.
01:06:02So that encompasses the first two months of the meet.
01:06:05All information, full conditions, loan applications specific to these programs can be found at
01:06:09canterburypark.com slash horseman.
01:06:12So definitely a very attractive place to race this summer and to bet this summer as we talked
01:06:17about.
01:06:17Yeah, Joe, people love to complain about the takeout and as well they should.
01:06:21It's too high in the sport.
01:06:22So instead of just sitting around griping, do something about it.
01:06:26Support the tracks that give you low takeouts and nobody has a lower takeout in the entire
01:06:31sport than Canterbury's pick five and pick six, a 10% takeout.
01:06:37It's a bet you should be looking at every single time Canterbury races because they're
01:06:41looking out for the horse player and you want to reward them with your business.
01:06:43But if us horse players didn't sit around griping, there'd be nothing for us to do when
01:06:47the races aren't on.
01:06:48This is true.
01:06:49That's our favorite.
01:06:50That's our second favorite pastime.
01:06:51But yeah, Bill's definitely right.
01:06:53And I'll be betting that pick five for sure when the meet opens May 18th.
01:06:56We'll be right back after this message from Canterbury Park.
01:07:17Canterbury, Canterbury, Canterbury, Canterbury, Canterbury, Canterbury, Canterbury, Canterbury,
01:07:29Canterbury, Canterbury.
01:07:47The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:08:04This week's XBTV Workout of the Week, which we're showing right now, is Latruska.
01:08:08Worked at Palm Meadows on Sunday, going four furlongs and 47.75.
01:08:13That was the best of 38 works at the four furlong distance.
01:08:17She was last seen, as we remember, in her six-year-old debut, winning the grade three
01:08:20Royal Delta stakes in total command at Gulfstream Park.
01:08:24So it certainly appears like she's set for another dominating campaign this year.
01:08:28Be interesting to see if maybe she runs, defends her title in the Apple Blossom.
01:08:32We talked a little bit earlier about, you know, how good that race is shaping up.
01:08:35So obviously wherever she goes, she's going to be a point of viewing, looking forward
01:08:38to seeing Latruska.
01:08:39And if you want to see all of Latruska's workouts, go to XBTV.com.
01:08:42Also all the three-year-old workouts, definitely a great resource as the derby trail continues
01:08:47to heat up.
01:08:48We touched on this a couple of weeks ago, Bill's story about Michael Sanchez, who was
01:08:53suspended 60 days for betting on races, some races that he was involved in.
01:08:59It's kind of a little bit in the news now because there was a similar story in the NFL.
01:09:03Calvin Ridley, who was a receiver for the Atlanta Falcons, last year he took a leave
01:09:08from the team because of, quote, unquote, to take care of his mental well-being.
01:09:12It turns out during some of that time he was betting on football.
01:09:16He says he only bet $1,500.
01:09:18He defended himself so he doesn't have a problem.
01:09:20The NFL did not care.
01:09:22They suspended him for an entire season.
01:09:24They said you can apply for reinstatement next February.
01:09:28I think that's a little bit much considering how, you know, strongly the NFL is pushing
01:09:33betting on the sports these days.
01:09:34You watch a football game, it seems like eight out of the ten commercials you'll see are
01:09:38for a sportsbook of some kind.
01:09:40But I get, you know, the whole integrity of the game thing.
01:09:42He wasn't playing at the time.
01:09:44But it kind of, you know, Bill brought this up, how it contrasts with horse racing, which
01:09:48only suspended Michael Sanchez for 60 days, and he had a much more direct impact on the
01:09:54horses he was betting or betting against.
01:09:56Bill, take it from here.
01:09:58Yeah, Joe, it's always interesting to see when these things come up how the big sports,
01:10:02the marquee major sports handle things versus horse racing.
01:10:05So whether you think Calvin Ridley deserved a year or not, this is what he gets.
01:10:09He gets a year of suspension, and he wasn't even playing in the games.
01:10:13He didn't bet against his own team, anything like that.
01:10:17You know, he was just like some of anybody, just betting a couple games to have some fun,
01:10:21I suppose.
01:10:23He gets a one year suspension.
01:10:24Michael Sanchez, the jockey, who not only bet on races, he bet against, in some instances,
01:10:31his own horse, gets a 60 day suspension.
01:10:35Now, having said that, there are some extenuating circumstances with Michael Sanchez.
01:10:40None of the betting patterns really suggested that he was trying to stick his horses or
01:10:44anything like that.
01:10:45And his lawyer said he just got out of control with his gambling because he was dealing with
01:10:49depression.
01:10:50But, you know, I do feel bad for the guy, and I don't want, don't think anything should
01:10:54happen to have ruined his career.
01:10:56I wouldn't say a lifetime ban.
01:10:58But, you know, I thought originally 60 days was horribly light, extremely lenient.
01:11:05And then when you see the NFL do this, suspend a guy for a lesser offense for a year, then
01:11:10you start to really look at this and say, you know, maybe Michael Sanchez should be
01:11:14the one getting the year.
01:11:15And Calvin Ridley should be the one, like you said, Joe, getting 60 days because the
01:11:20NFL is pumping gambling like crazy.
01:11:22But, you know, I just, I have mixed feelings about that because I don't want to kick a
01:11:27guy when he's down.
01:11:28I'm sure he's going through a lot of struggles and I wish him well.
01:11:30But the 60 day suspension was, should have been, should have been more.
01:11:34Absolutely more.
01:11:35And, you know, it just goes to show you that the NFL in this instance took the integrity
01:11:43issue a lot more seriously than horse racing did with Michael Sanchez.
01:11:47Wait, you mean there's a sport out there that takes an integrity issue more seriously than
01:11:51horse racing?
01:11:52Never.
01:11:54That possibly be?
01:11:55And Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, but like the 60 days, wasn't that the most that they
01:12:07could they could give Sanchez?
01:12:10Well, I'm not sure about that, John.
01:12:13I don't think so.
01:12:14No.
01:12:14I mean, you know, Thomas Mejia, who used a battery at Monmouth, got 10 years.
01:12:19I think probably using a battery is maybe a worse offense than betting against your
01:12:25own horses.
01:12:26But at the same time, they're maybe somewhat comparable.
01:12:28So it's interesting how they took this and gave him 10 years for what he did.
01:12:34You know, but no, you know, you might.
01:12:36Maybe there was some regulation I wasn't aware of.
01:12:39And then you would have had to suspend him for 60, then have the racing commission go
01:12:43back over it.
01:12:44Sometimes you get those things.
01:12:45But at the end of the day, they could have suspended for a lot more than 60 days if they
01:12:48chose to do so.
01:12:49Yeah.
01:12:49I mean, if the penalty period could have been extended greater than 60 days, in my estimation,
01:12:55it should have been in this case, because it's not even a matter of betting on on racing,
01:13:00which you're not allowed to do as a licensed participant, whether it's an owner, you know,
01:13:06technically, whether it's an owner, trainer or jockey, although I see trainers, you know,
01:13:09betting hand over fist.
01:13:11I kind of want to ask that because I know that that's a rule, but it's how could they
01:13:15possibly enforce that, John?
01:13:16No, it's not a rule.
01:13:17You can bet on your own horses.
01:13:18Well, no, but but I know like, again, I'm talking about New Jersey, even Dennis Drazen,
01:13:24who's an attorney and a very good one, sent out letters and emails to all the owners,
01:13:29you know, licensed owners saying that you are forbidden, forbidden from betting on
01:13:33any race, not just once you have, you know, horses in but basically, technically, if I
01:13:38went up to the window of Monmouth Park and bet $2 to place on a on a race, you know,
01:13:42$5,000 claiming race before the state race that I was running, and technically, I'm in
01:13:46violation of my license in New Jersey.
01:13:48So, so, yeah, so, so, but I understand what you're saying.
01:13:50I mean, who's going to police it?
01:13:51Nobody's nobody's going to be there.
01:13:52And I'm not sure I believe so.
01:13:55He's his transgressions occurred in first of all, I met that New Jersey was ridiculous.
01:14:00But these transgressions took place in Maryland, Pennsylvania.
01:14:04Right.
01:14:04Best of my knowledge, jockeys are there's no prohibitions on them either betting on
01:14:09their own horse or betting in races where they're not competing.
01:14:13Right.
01:14:13OK, that's interesting.
01:14:14That's right.
01:14:15You know, and it just goes to show you how convoluted a lot of the rules are not only
01:14:19state to state, but even even like, you know, when New York had that arcane rule about,
01:14:24you know, married couples that had to be coupled in the entries and like, you know, that's
01:14:29more important than, you know, an influence than if a jockey bets on or against his own,
01:14:34you know, his own mount.
01:14:35I mean, to me, that would be tantamount to, you know, ultimate, you know, control and
01:14:40conflict of interest.
01:14:41So, you know, I understand from from racing standpoint, yeah, it doesn't look good when
01:14:46you have a jockey who really is in control of, you know, not only his own mount, but
01:14:50other horses in the race, as we see, you know, fill in the blank with Paco Lopez, who, you
01:14:56know, who not only rides his own horse, but other horses in the race and make can influence
01:15:00the outcome because of it.
01:15:03You know, those guys have to be above board and stewards of, dare I say, ombudsman of
01:15:09racing's integrity.
01:15:11We have to do a better job with the jockeys as far as the NFL.
01:15:15I mean, yeah, they're going to come down hard on this.
01:15:17And it is hypocritical that, you know, they they have that they're, you know, tied in
01:15:22so deeply now with gambling and wagering.
01:15:25And it used to be kind of cute when Jimmy the Greek would come on CBS and talk about,
01:15:30you know, this, you know, the Steelers were going to be the Vikings.
01:15:33And he wouldn't say by three and a half, but they would post it on the screen that it was
01:15:38three.
01:15:38You know, and like they couldn't even talk about it back then.
01:15:40And now they're so in bed with with gambling that, of course, you're going to have young
01:15:44players, especially that are that are so involved with it that they're going to be, you know,
01:15:51betting on on the sport.
01:15:53So it's hypocritical.
01:15:54And, you know, a year is a long time.
01:15:56But I understand why they have to set the precedent for the NFL and say, no, this guy
01:16:01can't do it, because if they don't have a hard line on this, then it's really, you know,
01:16:05go out and get out of control.
01:16:07But I mean, like he was like he was sitting on his couch.
01:16:10It wasn't like he was in the locker room at halftime on his fan duel account.
01:16:14Like he was he was sitting on his couch.
01:16:15He wasn't with the team.
01:16:17He says it was only 1500 bucks.
01:16:18I don't know that you could prove that.
01:16:20But it's just if he's away from the team, he's not involved in competition of any kind.
01:16:26I don't get it.
01:16:27I mean, that's another that's for another show to debate.
01:16:29And we're only we're only bringing this up to make that comparison.
01:16:32And I agree with Bill that I don't think that we should ruin Michael Sanchez's life over
01:16:35this.
01:16:36But, yeah, in comparison, considering he had more control and really had no control, he
01:16:42had some control over the mounts and the horses he was betting on, even betting against.
01:16:48I think that 60 days was pretty light kind of thing.
01:16:51You can have no tolerance for it.
01:16:53But I promise we'll stop beating up on Michael Sanchez.
01:16:57By the way, did you guys did you guys read?
01:16:58There were a couple of comments on Twitter sphere about how lenient we were when we were
01:17:05talking about Lascano last week and actually not only lenient, but that we were being
01:17:10hypocritical.
01:17:11You guys rail on all of these jockeys and how terrible they are and everything like
01:17:14that.
01:17:15And then you get an obvious situation like Lascano and you don't beat him up.
01:17:18You know what?
01:17:18That's my opinion.
01:17:19My opinion is the guy did not try to fix a race.
01:17:22So I'm not I'm not being hypocritical.
01:17:23That's just my opinion about it.
01:17:25But yeah, jockey screw up or do do the wrong thing or bet on their own or against their
01:17:31own mounts.
01:17:32Then, of course, I'm going to I'm going to voice my displeasure about it.
01:17:34But but, yeah, this whole nonsense about, oh, you guys are such hypocrites because you
01:17:38didn't you didn't see that there was, you know, race fixing potential race fixing in
01:17:42New York.
01:17:42That's that's yeah, everybody's everybody's everybody's a gumshoe.
01:17:46I'm not racing Twitter.
01:17:48Everybody's the crack investigative team that has incontrovertible proof that this race
01:17:53was fixed.
01:17:54I mean, it's just that's one of the things that I don't like about racing Twitter is
01:17:58so black and white.
01:17:59You know, if you don't agree with me, you're an asshole.
01:18:01And if you know, if you can't see this, you're a hypocrite like there's, you know, go complain
01:18:08to the Naira stewards like they didn't they didn't suspend him or find him or anything
01:18:12like I just I hate these these scenarios where there is room for debate, where people want
01:18:19to make no room for debate.
01:18:21Because I, you know, I thought that, you know, especially when we were talking last week
01:18:25about the Paco Lopez thing, and then what the last kind of thing, the Paco Lopez thing
01:18:28was way worse than what Jose was kind of did.
01:18:31Now, if he happens again, I was able to kind of do something like that again, then maybe
01:18:35you can talk about, you know, something a little fishy going on.
01:18:37But there was absolutely no evidence that he was trying to fix that race.
01:18:40But you don't need any evidence anymore.
01:18:43You just yell loud enough.
01:18:44And, you know, you're, you're, you're the authority on that event.
01:18:49Well, luckily, we can yell the loudest and the broadest because we have this show.
01:18:53So to hell with you.
01:18:54You see, my bar is going up right now into the red.
01:18:57I'm yelling very, very loud.
01:18:58Loud noise this.
01:19:01The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:19:04If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business could benefit your program,
01:19:08give Tommy or Wendy a call.
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01:19:12Legacy Bloodstock sales grads have already made it to the winner's circle 47 times in
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01:19:31I'm sure they'll be involved in the yearling sales coming up later this summer as well.
01:19:34So we'll be right back after this message from Legacy Bloodstock.
01:19:38Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:19:41We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:19:44We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:19:46We're always with your horse every step of the way when it comes to being at the sales
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01:19:52We are with your horse.
01:19:54Just driving up and down the road every day.
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01:19:59animal, the people that come to invest in the game.
01:20:02I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can, because we do have the
01:20:05most beautiful sport in the world.
01:20:17This week's Remy Bullock cartoon, we brought that up last week.
01:20:20Love Remy's cartoons.
01:20:21Love it every week in the TDN.
01:20:23And now in the TDN Writers Room, you can see them as well.
01:20:25This week's cartoon is very, very cute and very funny.
01:20:28I love it.
01:20:29It's the horses running at the Cheltenham Festival, which is this week.
01:20:32Saying what?
01:20:33This again?
01:20:33Because I always feel like you got to get tired of jumping all over those damn fences,
01:20:37especially coming down this stretch.
01:20:38It's like, you're really asking a lot of me.
01:20:41You know, I'm just thoroughbred.
01:20:43But, you know, love Remy, love that cartoon.
01:20:45And shout out to Cheltenham, everybody that's at Cheltenham, everybody that's betting it
01:20:49this week.
01:20:50It started yesterday, was the first day on Tuesday, and it goes through this Friday,
01:20:54March 18th.
01:20:55So obviously, very tradition heavy, very exciting race meet festival.
01:21:00So we're enjoying that, looking forward to that.
01:21:02And then a couple months away from Royal Ascot as well.
01:21:04So we'll keep our eyes across the pond for those boutique meets.
01:21:07We know John loves them.
01:21:08John loves the boutique beat, as he said earlier in the show.
01:21:12So I hope you're betting a little bit on the jumpers this week.
01:21:14All right, so that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Writers Room,
01:21:17presented by Keeneland.
01:21:18Reminder that the Keeneland Spring Meet starts April 8th, and the Keeneland Horses of Racing
01:21:22Age sale is April 29th, which is also the last day of the Spring Meet.
01:21:26Get involved on the races at KeenelandSelect.com.
01:21:30The entries for the Horses of Racing Age sale are now open.
01:21:32I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green, our Green Group guest of the week, Terry Finley,
01:21:36our producer, Patty Wolfe, our associate producer, Katie Petruniak, and our editors,
01:21:40Anthony LaRocca, Aliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:21:43Thank you all so much for watching.
01:21:44Enjoy the tournament.
01:21:45See you next week.