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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning, it is 910, Wednesday, July 10th.
00:00:27This is the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
00:00:30My name is Joe Bianca, I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News, and no John
00:00:34this week, but somehow, like Celine Dion, my heart will go on, Bill.
00:00:38Yes, good morning, I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:43And Joe, you forgot to tell our listeners, our viewers, that thanks to a disgruntled
00:00:47viewer, we have a new nickname.
00:00:49The three of us are the three omegos, not amigos, omegos of negativity.
00:00:54That's pretty harsh.
00:00:55Shout out to Jerry.
00:00:56Love you, buddy.
00:00:57I'd love to be watching this week.
00:00:58You said you wouldn't, but I know you're there.
00:01:02The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:01:04This November, Keeneland is the place to be as the home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships,
00:01:08followed directly by the November breeding stock sales, so it's going to be a real action-packed
00:01:12weekend and week at Keeneland.
00:01:14Entry deadline for Keeneland November is August 1st.
00:01:17You can learn more at november.keeneland.com.
00:01:22So as I mentioned in the open, no John Green this week, but there's a pretty good reason.
00:01:26He was down in Kentucky at the Fasig-Tipton July sale and bought the topper yesterday,
00:01:31$600,000 Curlin Colt.
00:01:34I guess he didn't get the memo that it's really hard on us at TDN if you buy the topper right
00:01:39at the end of the sale because then you've got to rewrite everything, John.
00:01:42Could you spend the money earlier next time?
00:01:44But congratulations to John and DJ Staple, and I believe he gave us some footage.
00:01:48He gave Katie some footage down there yesterday to talk about the colt, and of course, us,
00:01:52because we're always on his mind.
00:01:55No name yet, but I'm glad that I'm able to give you guys some content for the podcast,
00:01:58even though I'm not there this week to be a part of it.
00:02:02But really, we came down here with the idea of trying to get a top colt, and a horse like
00:02:07this just doesn't come around that often.
00:02:09So we're really pleased when you have a bulletproof pedigree like he's got.
00:02:13You hope that he fulfills his destiny and runs to that ability.
00:02:17Mark Cassie, our trainer, is going to do everything possible to have him run in the big races.
00:02:22I literally, in my book, I literally wrote down, wow, and he's a beast, and I just don't
00:02:28write that down.
00:02:29Maybe occasionally I'll write that down when I see Joe Bianca, but for the most part, when
00:02:32a horse comes out of the barn and you see a really just outstanding colt like that,
00:02:36you know.
00:02:37It gives you the shivers.
00:02:38It gives you the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.
00:02:43Thanks to the family for allowing us to do this, and for going out on a limb and taking
00:02:49a shot on a horse like this, because it's still a lot of money, and it's still a big
00:02:52gamble, but he's the kind of horse that you want to gamble on.
00:02:57Okay, so we had that Belmont Stars and Stripes Turf Festival on Saturday.
00:03:02There's a really good card, really interesting card.
00:03:04The headline race was the Belmont Derby, and classic causeway going wire to wire.
00:03:09I thought, honestly, that he was an overlay.
00:03:12That's not me saying that I bet him.
00:03:14That's different from saying that I bet him.
00:03:15I thought he was a little bit of a crazy overlay at 26 to 1, had turf pedigree.
00:03:21Once Emanuel scratched, that was a little bit of a controversial scratch.
00:03:24Once he scratched, he was low in speed, went wire to wire, got an 89 buyer.
00:03:29McCoolick won the Belmont Oaks for the daughter of Frankel, so that was kind of cool, Chad
00:03:35Brown winning with the daughter of Frankel.
00:03:37McCoolick was also the last name of his first employee when he went out on his own as a
00:03:41trainer, so that's an interesting little sentimental story for him.
00:03:45Back to classic causeway, I saw Kenny McPeak saying something like, this horse could be
00:03:49a world traveler and go up to 12 furlongs.
00:03:52I think Kenny needs to pump the brakes a little bit.
00:03:54I think it was a great spot by him, Bill wrote about in his weekend review about Kenny's
00:03:59not afraid to try things.
00:04:00But the horse got an 89 buyer and got the easiest of leads and was getting reeled in
00:04:04at the end.
00:04:05So I don't know how great he can possibly be on turf, but it was nice to see him kind
00:04:09of after he fizzled out on the derby trail, get his moment in the sun, and obviously he's
00:04:13going to have some more opportunities and great ones on turf.
00:04:16What did you think about the turf races at Belmont, Bill?
00:04:18Yeah, I totally agree.
00:04:20And you know, you're right, I mean, classic causeway, and Kenny likes to think big and
00:04:24that's why we love him, you know, but is he going to go and win the Arc de Triomphe?
00:04:27Of course not.
00:04:29He's not nearly good enough.
00:04:30And you know, had Emanuel not been scratched and that thing where there's problems with
00:04:37how Pletcher was informing the vets or whatever about some of the treatments going into it,
00:04:41he probably wouldn't have won anyways because that let him get the lead where he wasn't
00:04:45going to.
00:04:46I don't think he would have gotten the lead, period.
00:04:47But then again, you know, in so many of these Belmont turf races, we expect to see the half
00:04:51going 50, 51, something like that.
00:04:54It's fairly legitimate in 48.
00:04:56So but again, like just like I wrote, you know, in a game where nobody takes any chances,
00:05:01this is the guy who is the king of taking chances.
00:05:04And you know, look how it works out from this a million dollar race.
00:05:08Horses coming back in two weeks, he had never run on the turf in his life.
00:05:10I don't think there's too many other trainers in the sport that would have run the horse
00:05:13in this spot.
00:05:15And then in races out of town in Indiana and Indiana Grand or Horseshoe, Indiana and Prairie
00:05:20Meadows, he also had a slew of horses, four or five horses that were coming back in eight,
00:05:25nine days, and they all ran great.
00:05:27So it was, you know, a big weekend for him and it was a big weekend for, you know, just
00:05:31showcasing this is the way I do things.
00:05:35You don't have to give the horse six weeks off between every race, which is something
00:05:38I know I've been talking about ad nauseum, but, you know, that was very good.
00:05:41And, you know, McCulloch got it done for Chad.
00:05:44It's interesting.
00:05:45He's won that race, the Belmont Oaks, six times, yet he's never won the Belmont Derby,
00:05:48which I just find kind of interesting and was, you know, one of a number of stars that
00:05:53Chad Brown sent out during a meet where he broke the record for most wins ever.
00:05:58It was just, you know, an absolutely unbelievable job.
00:06:00Maybe I'll get ahead of you a little bit if you want to come back to this.
00:06:03But then the Suburban and, you know, jeez, you know, I hate to keep coming back to the
00:06:08same thing, but as well, week after week after week, five horses, one train by Uriah St.
00:06:13Louis.
00:06:14And, you know, again, you know, where does the Suburban fit into the grand scheme of
00:06:18things?
00:06:19And is it, you know, does it make sense to continue to just try out these five horse
00:06:22fields in these, especially these male dirt races?
00:06:25I don't think it does.
00:06:26I think something needs to be done.
00:06:27Yeah.
00:06:28And, you know, just going back to Chad Brown for a second, it's always surprising when
00:06:30I see like a grade one turf race that he hasn't won, because I assume he's won all
00:06:34of them by now, you know, if not multiple times.
00:06:37But yeah, that that was an incredible stat.
00:06:40He broke the record for wins at the Belmont Spring Summer Meet.
00:06:43He had 48 wins in only 44 days.
00:06:46David Jacobson had the previous record, but that was in a 56 day meet, and this was Chad's
00:06:51seventh consecutive Belmont Spring Summer title.
00:06:55Also Irad won the jockey title by one over Dylan Davis.
00:06:59So it's a really big meet for Dylan Davis to even compete with Irad like that.
00:07:04And we'll see if he can carry that over into the Saratoga meet.
00:07:07But yeah, to your point, Bill, I counted there were 43 stakes races over the weekend.
00:07:13One horse got a triple digit buyer, one, and it was it was a hundred.
00:07:18McCron, I think, was the one in the Iowa Sprint got exactly a 100 buyer.
00:07:24Dynamic One got a 98 in the Suburban.
00:07:26I think he's a nice horse, honestly, and I think First Captain's a nice horse.
00:07:29That was a pretty good battle.
00:07:30But yeah, when you have over 40 stakes races and only one buyer figure that you can point
00:07:34to as potentially an elite figure, there's just too many stakes races on the weekend.
00:07:39Like 43 stakes races across the country, it just it makes no sense.
00:07:43And some of these state bred races that are black type that probably don't need to be
00:07:48black type.
00:07:49It was just it was a little appetizer for this coming week because obviously we got
00:07:55Saratoga coming up.
00:07:56But really, the only interesting races were at Belmont and the Belmont Turf Festival.
00:08:02So, yeah, I mean, we don't want to keep beating a dead horse here, but just too many stakes
00:08:06races is just not not enough good racing for the amount of black type races we have.
00:08:11But it was good to see those Belmont Turf races as that festival continues to grow and
00:08:15I'll set everybody up nicely for the Saratoga Derby and the Saratoga Oaks.
00:08:19And of course, we are one day away, just a little over 24 hours as we're recording this
00:08:24from Saratoga.
00:08:25We all obviously cannot wait.
00:08:2740 days starts tomorrow.
00:08:29The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:08:31Graded Stakes winning Keeneland September graduates from this past weekend include Grade
00:08:35Two Suburban winner Dynamic One, who I think is a sneaky player in the Handicap Division,
00:08:39who was purchased by Ripoli Stables in St. Elias for $725,000.
00:08:44Grade Three Indiana Oaks winner Interstate Daydream, who's definitely a legitimate contender
00:08:48as well in the three-year-old Philly Division.
00:08:51A $130,000 Keeneland September grad and Grade Three Iowa Oaks victorious Butterbean, named
00:08:56after my favorite boxer of all time, who was purchased by Kenny McPeak at the 2020 Keeneland
00:09:01September sale.
00:09:02Yearling Sale season is now officially underway and we're closing in on the 2022 Keeneland
00:09:07September Yearling Sale, which begins Monday, September 12th.
00:09:10You can learn more about that at september.keeneland.com.
00:09:14Definitely be there.
00:09:15We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:09:18When the thoroughbred world descends upon Lexington this November, there is one place
00:09:23you need to be.
00:09:24The place where history comes alive with every championship victory.
00:09:31The place where the future is built with the fall of a gavel.
00:09:36The place that exists to be the heart of this industry.
00:09:39The center of it all.
00:09:41Home to the November Breeding Stocks Sale and the 2022 Breeders' Cup.
00:09:47Keeneland.
00:09:48Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate-to-wire win in the Florida Derby.
00:09:54Champion Three-Year-Old.
00:09:55Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
00:10:01Eleven Triple-Digit Buyers.
00:10:03Maximum Security, he smoked them in the Cigar Mile.
00:10:07Grade One Winning Four-Year-Old.
00:10:09Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:10:14Secure your mare's future.
00:10:17Maximum Security.
00:10:18The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:10:21On Monday, a son of Uncle Mo topped the Fasig-Tipton July Horses of All Ages Sale when Kutcher,
00:10:26who was a runner-up in the American Derby recently, sold for $500,000 to Steve Young.
00:10:31And then yesterday at the Fasig-Tipton July Selected Yearling Sale, Uncle Mo had a colt
00:10:36out of the stakes-winning mare Super Sex sell for $400,000.
00:10:40He was the third-highest-selling colt of the auction.
00:10:42Meanwhile, Classic Empire's daughter, Interstate Daydreamer, I just mentioned, won the Indiana
00:10:46Oaks.
00:10:47It was her second straight graded stakes win.
00:10:50Classic Empire now has six stakes winners and 10 stakes performers.
00:10:54Definitely one of the sires you should go see at Coolmore as well as, obviously, Uncle
00:10:58Mo and Kutcher.
00:11:00So Bill and I are going to talk a little bit about the Saratoga meat.
00:11:03And just, I don't know, it kind of always feels like this, but I feel like especially
00:11:06this year, it feels like it really snuck up on us.
00:11:08You know, Saratoga came out of nowhere.
00:11:11And there's some new stuff to talk about.
00:11:12We're going to get into the opening weekend races in a second.
00:11:16But there are a couple of new things to mention, mainly the Wilson shoot, which is now, it's
00:11:22on the Saratoga.
00:11:23I thought it was going to be on the Saratoga backstretch, but it's a one-mile shoot that
00:11:27starts basically a little bit after, basically at the clubhouse turn.
00:11:32It's a straight shoot that goes up on the clubhouse turn and then takes a left and goes
00:11:37down the backstretch for one-mile dirt races.
00:11:39They used to have one-mile dirt races at Saratoga in the 80s and 90s, and then they
00:11:42got rid of that with the configuration.
00:11:45And I think it's a good deal because mile and an eighth at Saratoga is really, really
00:11:51testing.
00:11:52It's a completely different distance than seven furlongs at Belmont, seven furlongs
00:11:55to a mile and an eighth, not as big of a difference, I don't think, because it's one turn.
00:12:00At Saratoga, especially with off-the-turf races, a lot of times, there was a lot of
00:12:06in-between horses, horses that didn't even want to be on the dirt in the first place.
00:12:10You get a race washed off at a mile or a mile and a sixteenth.
00:12:13You try to get those horses from a mile and a sixteenth to go a mile and an eighth on
00:12:16a dirt, and when they're not dirt horses to begin with, it's a really tough ask.
00:12:20There are a lot of stagger fests in those races, those off-the-turf races, a lot of
00:12:24scratches.
00:12:25I think with a mile, you got a lot of that's within the scope of a lot more horses.
00:12:31And I just think in general, it's also for two-year-olds.
00:12:34When they had a mile and a sixteenth, two-year-old turf race that would come off the turf, they
00:12:37would bring it all the way back to seven furlongs.
00:12:39Now you can run those races at a mile.
00:12:41They did a little test of it yesterday, which was really cool.
00:12:44They broke about six or seven horses out of the gate in the Wilson chute with some of
00:12:47the top jockeys.
00:12:48I don't know if we have the video for that.
00:12:51So that's exciting.
00:12:52As far as accommodations, there's a newly renovated post bar and a paddock suite at
00:12:56Saratoga, which overlooks the walking path to get from the paddock out to the track.
00:13:01So I think that's going to be really cool.
00:13:03It's always a delicate balance at Saratoga because it's so historic and it's so preserved
00:13:09through time that you don't want to upgrade it too much that it becomes just one of these
00:13:12new fangled racetracks or accommodations.
00:13:16But you also want to update it over time and you want to have new stuff for people to check
00:13:22out to get people excited.
00:13:23And I think especially with this, with the view over the track and over the walking path,
00:13:28I think is going to be a hit at Saratoga.
00:13:31As far as this weekend and the actual races coming up, we've got the Schuylerville, which
00:13:35opens the meet tomorrow, the first graded stake.
00:13:39On Thursday, John Green and DJ Staple will have me and my shadow in that race.
00:13:42So we'll be rooting for them.
00:13:44Mark Cassie has three horses.
00:13:45We talked about this.
00:13:46Bill did a great story about Mark Cassie and all his two-year-olds, so he'll be loaded
00:13:50for bear with the two-year-olds.
00:13:51We've got the Forbidden Apple on Friday, which is a grade three.
00:13:54And then the big first Saturday of the meet has the grade one Diana and the grade three
00:13:59Sanford stakes.
00:14:00On Saturday, Bill, I know you've got a couple of comments on the Diana.
00:14:03Yeah.
00:14:04Well, first of all, I mean, I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise, but you look at it and
00:14:09you have to kind of do a double take.
00:14:11Fourteen horses nominated for the race, ten, ten of them trained by Chad Brown and eight
00:14:17of those ten owned by Peter Brandt.
00:14:20So, you know, I don't know how many he's going to run, but it's going to be more than one
00:14:24or two, no doubt about it.
00:14:26But, you know, among that group, Bleaker Street is the, you know, the star amongst
00:14:32Chad stars as she's undefeated seven for seven, kind of snuck up on people a little bit.
00:14:36I don't think anybody thought she would develop into a big star, but she won the New York
00:14:40Stakes last time out over Rougier, another horse that's nominated for this race.
00:14:45And you know, are we going to get to the point someday where there's a seven horse turf race
00:14:48stakes in Saratoga and every one of them is trained by Chad Brown?
00:14:51I mean, it doesn't seem like we're that far away from that happening.
00:14:55But, you know, Chad Brown coming off this spectacular meet at Belmont would again be
00:14:59the favorite to win the training title at Saratoga.
00:15:04Yeah, the Wilson shoot is, I'm not as high on it as you are, Joe, I just don't really
00:15:08know how necessary it is.
00:15:10And back in 1992, I think, they were running one mile dirt races and they were starting
00:15:16on the turn.
00:15:17So it's a little bit different.
00:15:18But it was a disaster.
00:15:19I mean, it got to the point where it's dangerous because the inside horse is running right
00:15:23towards the rail.
00:15:24The outside horses, the jockeys, didn't want to get hung six wide when they started on
00:15:27a turn.
00:15:28They were setting and everybody was kind of coming at one into the same, trying to get
00:15:33to that same spot.
00:15:34I'm sure this will be a lot better.
00:15:36But it's interesting that the jockeys, as we speak, have still not given Naira approval
00:15:40to run 10 horse fields out of the Wilson shoot.
00:15:44They may, and obviously it's their prerogative and you can't blame them because safety's
00:15:49got to come first.
00:15:50They may tell them that they're only willing to ride an eight horse field.
00:15:53So we'll see about that.
00:15:54But, Joe, I think this is going to be a spectacular meet.
00:15:58I mean, we always think Sparatoga is going to be good, but the Whitney Life is Good versus
00:16:02Olympiad is going to be just a tremendous showdown.
00:16:05And Four Ward will be in there, of course, for Uriah as well.
00:16:08And then the Travers, all the big boys, except for Jack Christopher, look like they're pointing
00:16:13for that.
00:16:14You know, it's too bad that Modongle is out.
00:16:16Otherwise, you would have had probably a race that brought the three triple crown winners
00:16:20together.
00:16:21And then also from a betting standpoint, they came off another real nice meet at Belmont
00:16:24where Handel was up.
00:16:25And remember last year, they bet, they just shattered the record for the most money ever
00:16:29bet at Saratoga with $815 million bet on the meet with the momentum they have coming off
00:16:36of Belmont.
00:16:37You know, as long as the weather holds up, as long as you don't have a ton of races come
00:16:40off the turf, I think they're going to have another record breaking meet.
00:16:43It's just, you know, the Saratoga, the thing about Saratoga is interesting.
00:16:46It never peaks.
00:16:47You say, okay, you can't get any bigger and better than this.
00:16:50And then the next year, well, wait a minute, they bet $830 million this year.
00:16:54And you know, because this is what horse players love.
00:16:57They love a great product, historic racetrack, you know, good racing.
00:17:01The field size at Saratoga is not a big issue because there's so many people that want to
00:17:04run there.
00:17:05And you know, look, you've been handicapping for two days, the Thursday card.
00:17:10I don't think you spent two days handicapping the opening of the Aqueduct fall meet last
00:17:14year for two days.
00:17:15So yeah, I mean, thumbs up.
00:17:17Again, I think it's going to be just a great, great meet.
00:17:21Yeah. And you know, like you said, everybody wants to run there.
00:17:24So you don't have to worry about short fields.
00:17:27And also, you don't have to worry about not seeing top horses because this is where
00:17:31everybody comes out to play.
00:17:32And this is, you know, obviously quality wise, most graded stakes, most stakes races
00:17:37concentrated onto one calendar and one actual full meet.
00:17:41And it's, you know, like I said, this is something that we think about and we complain
00:17:46about throughout the year.
00:17:48Trainers shelving their horses and putting them on the sidelines for no reason.
00:17:51That won't happen at Saratoga.
00:17:52There are so many big engagements for big horses that you're going to get to see
00:17:56everybody. And we talked about this last week about how many special performances and
00:18:01special horses we've seen just in the first half of this year.
00:18:04And I feel like we're going to see, you know, 80, 90 percent of those horses at Saratoga.
00:18:09So there's going to be something.
00:18:10And that's what's great about Saratoga is every day feels like an event, you know, and
00:18:13every day has a stakes race.
00:18:15There's no I mean, there are some kind of semi sleepy days at Saratoga, maybe like the
00:18:20Sunday after like Traverse Day or something.
00:18:22But overall, every day is is, you know, must watch much must see TV.
00:18:28They get 20,000 people through the gates every single day.
00:18:31And if you haven't been to Saratoga, you obviously have to put it on your bucket list.
00:18:35I know I'm not supposed to shout out our competition, but at Thoroughbred Racing
00:18:38Commentary, a guy named Steve Dennis did a really nice story about what makes Saratoga
00:18:42special and really kind of nailed it.
00:18:44And it's just it's a it's a it's a phenomenal place to be in the summer.
00:18:47And it's really it's one of those places that transports you, honestly.
00:18:50Like when you go to Saratoga, you feel like you're on some other planet or some other
00:18:54country. You just forget about everything else in the real world.
00:18:57And you're just you're just there, you know, coexisting with your fellow racing fans and,
00:19:02you know, your fellow party goers.
00:19:03It's it's just it's really, really special.
00:19:05I tell all my friends about it and I bring my non racing friends up there and they have
00:19:08a great time. I always tell them they always like ask to come out to the track with me.
00:19:12And I'm like, as much as I love Belmont or Aqueduct, come up to Saratoga with me and
00:19:16then you'll get the full, you know, top of the line racing experience.
00:19:19And, you know, everybody at Naira does a great job.
00:19:21It's a ton of ton of work to put on the Saratoga meet.
00:19:24But they just knock it out of the park every single year.
00:19:26Like Bill says, the handle keeps going up and up.
00:19:29And yeah, you just we can't wait.
00:19:31And Bill makes a good point that, you know, I've been looking at this opening day card
00:19:34since Monday. I do have some strong opinions, either fortunately or unfortunately for
00:19:39tomorrow. So I'm going to be unloading a bit and just yeah, we can't wait.
00:19:43I'll be up there in mid-August for a couple of days.
00:19:45I'll give people a shout if they want to come say hello.
00:19:48Best of luck to John Green and DJ Stable.
00:19:50Like I said, they're going to have a bunch of big horses there and we'll just let's have
00:19:54let's have safe racing.
00:19:56Let's have a great betting product as much as we possibly can.
00:20:00And we're looking forward to it.
00:20:01We're looking forward to breaking down all the racing every single week.
00:20:04And yeah, we'll talk a little bit about the Chad Brown Invitational next week, Bill, for
00:20:09sure. So so best of luck to everybody at Naira and Saratoga.
00:20:11We cannot wait. Starts tomorrow.
00:20:13First post 10 race card is at one o'clock.
00:20:17And we just the twenty thousand dollar claimer now is like the traditional starting point.
00:20:21And then right after that, we got the two year olds, we got the babies jumping, jumping
00:20:24off early and two stakes races.
00:20:26So it's going to be tremendous.
00:20:29The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:20:32Don't forget, Pennsylvania's day at the races is coming up Monday, August 22nd at
00:20:37Laurel Park with a million dollars in purses.
00:20:39Early nominations are now closed, but you can still get in those late noms, which close
00:20:43on August 2nd.
00:20:44Other exciting news out of Pennsylvania, 2021 Pennsylvania Horse of the Year.
00:20:48Chub Wagon, who shouted me out on Twitter, it was honestly one of one of the greatest
00:20:52moments in my Twitter history, is running this Saturday in the Alma North Stakes at
00:20:57Laurel Park. And fellow PA bred Baron, who was trained by Robert Reed, will also
00:21:01represent the PA bred program at Laurel this weekend in the DeFrancis Memorial Dash.
00:21:06I know everybody's going to be watching Saratoga, but I'm going to keep one eye on
00:21:09Chub Wagon this Saturday.
00:21:11Just can't help myself.
00:21:12She's that good. Be right back after this message from the PHBA.
00:21:17The PA Horse Breeders Association introduces the Pennsylvania Stallion Series, four
00:21:22brand new races to be run at parks for PA sired, PA bred two year olds.
00:21:26There are two $100,000 contests on August 22nd, PA day at the races.
00:21:32September 24th, PA Derby Day has two more races, each with a $200,000 purse.
00:21:38The PA Stallion Series.
00:21:39Yet another reason why Pennsylvania is the premier place to breed and race.
00:21:44For more, please visit pabred.com.
00:21:47All right, so we had a really cool and interesting interview with Dr.
00:21:51Scott Palmer, who is the equine medical director of the New York State Gaming Commission.
00:21:56And he's spearheading this program called Stride Safe that figures out the
00:22:01movement of horses down to the smallest possible denominator and finds standard
00:22:07deviation and out of the norm strides.
00:22:10And it's basically just a program to figure out and diagnose potential musculoskeletal
00:22:15injuries early on in the process so that it doesn't become a catastrophic breakdown.
00:22:20It's a really revolutionary program and something that I think can really get us as
00:22:24close to zero as possible in terms of the fatality rate.
00:22:26So we talked to him yesterday.
00:22:28I'm a little damp at the beginning of this interview.
00:22:30This is the last time I try to squeeze in a Peloton before the before the guest interview.
00:22:35But it's really fascinating.
00:22:36Like I said, this is crucial to getting that fatality rate as low as possible.
00:22:40Dr. Palmer and his team doing a real service to the industry and more importantly to the
00:22:44horses with their work.
00:22:46So check out our interview with Dr.
00:22:47Scott Palmer.
00:22:49The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting, tax,
00:22:52consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:22:55With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you
00:22:59taxes. Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:23:04So we're thrilled to bring on this week, the equine medical director for the New York
00:23:07State Gaming Commission, Dr.
00:23:09Scott Palmer. Thanks for coming on.
00:23:10Great to be here. Thank you very much for having me.
00:23:13Great to have you. And you know, the thing we most want to talk about is the stride safe
00:23:17technology that you and your team are working on and using at the New York Racing
00:23:21Association racetracks.
00:23:22Basically, it's a wearable biometric technology, kind of like Fitbit to track a
00:23:27horse's stride.
00:23:28So for anybody who does not know about it, how does the stride safe technology work and
00:23:32what kind of data does it collect?
00:23:34In 2021, during the start of the Saratoga meet, I met with David Lambert, who is the
00:23:40CEO of Stride Safe.
00:23:42And he asked me if I thought it'd be possible for us to do a study in Saratoga to see
00:23:47if this technology could be useful to identify horses at risk of injury.
00:23:51And I was excited about that.
00:23:53That's that's the holy grail for me is to find out ways to identify horses with minor
00:23:58injuries before they become major injuries.
00:23:59We know from our 20 years or so of research in this area that 85 percent of the horses
00:24:04that have a breakdown injury have pre-existing musculoskeletal disease or damage.
00:24:09And if we can identify that damage early, we can intervene and take care of that.
00:24:14The horse is fixed. He's not down so much.
00:24:16We don't lose him to the game and he doesn't get seriously hurt.
00:24:20So this kind of device is the first step where it's I draw the analogy here, Joe.
00:24:26It's a it's a check engine light in your car.
00:24:28You know, when you're driving down the road, the check engine light comes on.
00:24:31That doesn't mean you have to stop the car immediately.
00:24:33But it means you got to get this thing looked at because something's going on here.
00:24:36It's not good. If you don't do that, something bad is going to happen.
00:24:39So that's what we got here is a check engine light.
00:24:42And with that kind of information, that's going to help us to identify these horses
00:24:47at risk of injury because we can see lameness before a human being can see it or before
00:24:52the jockey can feel it.
00:24:53So these sensors are about the size of a cell phone.
00:24:57And inside that sensor, there is a GPS system so we can see where the horse is going around
00:25:02the racetrack. It also has three accelerometers.
00:25:05An accelerometer is a device that measures acceleration.
00:25:08That's not velocity. That's not speed, but it's a change in velocity.
00:25:11So we measure acceleration in three dimensions.
00:25:13The first dimension is the front to back.
00:25:15We call that longitudinal.
00:25:17And that means that basically how fast the horse is accelerating or if he's slowing down
00:25:22during the race.
00:25:23The second vector we're looking at is vertical acceleration.
00:25:27That means how much is he going up and down when he's springing off his hind legs?
00:25:30How high does he go?
00:25:32The third one is medial to lateral.
00:25:34That's side to side variation.
00:25:36And that's a really important one for lameness because if a horse has got some lameness,
00:25:40he's going to shift his weight one side or the other.
00:25:42We can pick that up.
00:25:44These sensors measure those three vectors in 800 hertz.
00:25:49Now, what that means is 800 times per second.
00:25:52That sensor sends data to a satellite.
00:25:54And since we have three of them, that's 2,400 bytes of information per second.
00:25:59We send to a satellite.
00:25:59Then it comes back to a computer.
00:26:01And a computer has an algorithm in it that analyzes that data.
00:26:05We're going to start racing at Saratoga again on Thursday.
00:26:08And we're going to do every horse in every race at Saratoga this year.
00:26:11So it's a really big deal to have that capability.
00:26:15Now, this is a really important slide for your folks to see if you can get it up there.
00:26:19This is the horse's gallop is a very complex gate.
00:26:24We've all seen horses galloping down the racetrack.
00:26:26It's a beautiful thing, but it's very complicated.
00:26:30When we analyze it with this computer program,
00:26:32this algorithm breaks the stride down into three phases.
00:26:35The first phase is called the hind limb stance phase.
00:26:38And that's when one or both hind limbs are on the ground.
00:26:42And during that phase of time, those gigantic muscles across the back of the horse and then
00:26:47the hips and on down the leg, those gigantic muscles are being loaded like springs.
00:26:52And then the horse springs off, unloads those muscles and drives forward off those hind legs.
00:26:58And then we have the second phase of gate.
00:27:00And that phase of gate is the forelimb stance phase.
00:27:04During the forelimb stance phase, as illustrated here, you can see the horse is basically
00:27:08catching all that weight and all that energy on his front legs.
00:27:12And that's where all of the concussion occurs.
00:27:16And then the third phase we'll get to in just a second.
00:27:18I just want to point out the squiggly lines on the left are the three vectors that we have,
00:27:22the longitudinal, the vertical, and the side to side.
00:27:25So you see those squiggly lines, kind of like an EKG or something like that,
00:27:28that gives you an indication of what's going on.
00:27:31You can see it's very different between the three strides.
00:27:34We get back here to the period of suspension.
00:27:35This is where the horse is floating through the air.
00:27:38And in this period of time, the horse has no feet on the ground.
00:27:42And a couple of important things are happening here.
00:27:44First of all, he's taking a breath.
00:27:46This is the only time in his stride where he can really make a change
00:27:49in how he's going to land the next time his feet hit the ground.
00:27:52So let's just say if you were walking down the street and you got a pebble in your shoe,
00:27:57you would have a conscious thought, you know, that hurts.
00:28:00When I stepped on my left foot, I felt a pebble.
00:28:03You know, when I put my foot down again, I'm going to move.
00:28:06I'm going to land differently.
00:28:07So maybe that won't hurt so much.
00:28:09Well, that's what's happening here.
00:28:10The horse can take his axial skeleton.
00:28:12That's his spinal column and his pelvis.
00:28:14And he can rotate his body in the air and then land a little differently on the next ride.
00:28:19So this is a time in the stride where it's very important.
00:28:22We can pick up things that are impossible to see in any other way.
00:28:26So that's basically what that sensor measures.
00:28:31And then we get this data output.
00:28:33We get total power.
00:28:35How hard is the horse trying during the race?
00:28:37The horse has a really a default stride when he's galloping, going fast.
00:28:44He's going slow.
00:28:44There's so much noise, you can't see it.
00:28:46But he's going fast.
00:28:47He's not thinking about what he's doing.
00:28:48His subconscious is taken over.
00:28:50And he's got a fingerprint of how he moves.
00:28:53Now, what we did in the beginning, if we don't have any repeated measures on the horse,
00:28:58we don't know what the individual fingerprint is at that point.
00:29:01We look at a group of horses and we develop a population fingerprint
00:29:05over a particular racetrack.
00:29:07So the next slide, the one that says the caution sign,
00:29:10is a slide that shows a graph of flagged races.
00:29:15And on here, you can see a solid blue line.
00:29:17A solid blue line represents the median.
00:29:20That's the average of the total power output during a race.
00:29:26And so the solid blue line is the average.
00:29:29The dotted blue lines are what we call one standard deviation above and below the solid
00:29:34blue line.
00:29:35What that means is science detects variability.
00:29:38No data is perfect.
00:29:39And maybe it's not obvious to the human eye right away, but it's a problem.
00:29:43I want to show you a case study from Saratoga last year that really got my attention.
00:29:48Remember, we only did one race a day, but we just happened to catch this horse
00:29:52and tracing.
00:29:53And you can see here his power and his vibration charts throughout the race from 0 to 80 seconds.
00:29:59And what you can see here is in the first two charts, the pink line is the horse in
00:30:04question that we did a recording on.
00:30:06The blue solid line, the blue dotted lines, that's the population average.
00:30:10And what you see here, this horse is pretty much right on in terms of power and vibration.
00:30:14Nothing really out of the ordinary.
00:30:16Let's go to the next slide, please.
00:30:18This one has three charts on it.
00:30:20And look at this.
00:30:21Now look at that pink line.
00:30:22And in all of these charts, the pink line is way outside of normal.
00:30:26And you can see in the dorsal ventral chart, that's the one that measures how he's going
00:30:30up and down.
00:30:31Notice that he's really below normal.
00:30:33He's low throughout the race.
00:30:34He's particularly low between 50 and 60 seconds.
00:30:38Those two big peaks down there between 50 and 60 indicate he's not pushing off very
00:30:42well behind.
00:30:43He's really, his vertical acceleration is way down.
00:30:46Now we're going to look at his longitudinal.
00:30:48That's the acceleration, his change in speed during the race.
00:30:51He's going faster and faster and faster and faster until about 55 to 58 seconds in the
00:30:56race.
00:30:56And whoa, big drop off in acceleration.
00:31:00A big change there.
00:31:01And then when we look at the medial lateral chart, he's been low throughout the race.
00:31:05But there's two significant peaks here.
00:31:07The second peak is between 55 and 60 seconds.
00:31:10That's the big low peak.
00:31:12Something happened there between 55 and 60 seconds into this race.
00:31:16And keep in mind, this was one of the first horses we looked at the first few races.
00:31:20So I really didn't know what that meant.
00:31:21I mean, I had an idea what it might mean, but I really didn't know for sure.
00:31:26So I called the trainer up and said, you know, I really need to come by and have a
00:31:31peek at this horse.
00:31:33I said, I don't know what happened.
00:31:34But I said, look, this chart, this sensor showed us that something really seriously
00:31:38went off the rails here about 55 seconds into the race.
00:31:42And but I did see the horse come off the racetrack and he was fine.
00:31:46And they walked him back to the test barn.
00:31:48He was fine.
00:31:49A quarter of a mile from the unsaddling area to the test barn.
00:31:52Everything looked good.
00:31:53He finished second in the race.
00:31:55You know, everybody was pretty happy about it.
00:31:58He said, you really don't know what happened, do you?
00:31:59And I said, no, I don't.
00:32:01Well, that horse became lame in the test barn.
00:32:03He was sound walking back there, but he became lame in the test barn.
00:32:06So he although he something happened in the race, there was no visual sign, no visual
00:32:11clinical sign that he was lame until he got back to the test barn.
00:32:14He got lame.
00:32:15He was so lame we had to put him in an ambulance to get him back to the barn.
00:32:18And then when they got him back there, they x-rayed him.
00:32:20And this is the next slide.
00:32:22He had a fracture of his third carpal bone that he experienced during that race.
00:32:26And I can tell you, I was blown away by that.
00:32:29I couldn't believe it.
00:32:29We saw that happen with the sensors, but we just didn't at the time know exactly what
00:32:34it meant.
00:32:34Now we know, you know, if somebody's that far off of normal and we can pinpoint it during
00:32:39a race like that, we know that that horse has got an injury.
00:32:42Now this, thankfully, was not a catastrophic injury.
00:32:45This horse had surgeries now back in training.
00:32:47It was a good news story.
00:32:49But it really gave me a wake-up call as to what this sensor could measure and see and
00:32:54how important it was because we couldn't possibly have seen this any other way.
00:32:58So we had a list of about 131 horses.
00:33:01And we took those horses and followed their careers for four months.
00:33:06As you know, a thoroughbred racehorse generally comes back and races somewhere between 30
00:33:11and 40 days, you know, if everything's okay.
00:33:14But we also know that there are times when horses get sick or maybe the owner doesn't
00:33:19want to run their horse anymore, he changes hands or whatever, but the horse might not
00:33:23make it back right on that schedule.
00:33:24But if that horse doesn't come back and train or race for four months, there's something
00:33:29wrong with that horse.
00:33:30And it could be sick.
00:33:31But most of those horses, more than 85% of them, are lame.
00:33:35And it means the reason why they're not training and not racing is because they can't.
00:33:38And so we followed these horses for four months and looked at each classification.
00:33:43And it was fascinating what we saw.
00:33:45Can I just interrupt for a second?
00:33:47Because I know right now our listeners are all wanting to know the answer to a question.
00:33:51What happens when you get a red flag?
00:33:53Does the horse have to be taken out of training?
00:33:56Does the trainer have to scratch it?
00:33:58Is it up to them?
00:33:59You know, what's kind of like, because that's what I think people, you know, it's great
00:34:02that we get this technology, but what do we do with it?
00:34:05That's exactly, that's the basis.
00:34:07What I want you to see here, though, is that it's important that if we're going to say,
00:34:12if we're going to give people advice about a red flag, it's got to mean something really
00:34:16accurate, right?
00:34:17Now, a red horse is not a scarlet letter for his life.
00:34:19But it means in this race that we measured him, those red horses are different in some
00:34:23way.
00:34:24So in other words, what this means, Bill, is that I can accurately tell a trainer, if
00:34:29you get a red alert, you've got a 40% chance of making it back to race in four months.
00:34:35That's a really bad business model, if nothing else.
00:34:38And it also means that your horse is likely at risk of injury.
00:34:42So now we're getting down to the conclusion here.
00:34:45What do we do with this data?
00:34:47And we're going to do it at Saratoga.
00:34:48Now, that's a three-step process.
00:34:50Get the flag, you get an examination, then you do imaging, you get a diagnosis, do the
00:34:55appropriate treatment.
00:34:56And probably the horse isn't going to have to be laid up for a long period of time, and
00:34:59it can stay in the game.
00:35:01So I have a question.
00:35:02You know, I think you've explained the data and the science of it really well.
00:35:06So I want to know how applicable this is to other racing jurisdictions.
00:35:11At NIRA and at the New York State Gaming Commission, I'm sure you guys have a lot of
00:35:14resources that other smaller states and smaller racing jurisdictions don't have or might not
00:35:19be as interested in finding out these kind of things.
00:35:21How realistic do you think it is to broaden out this technology to as many racing jurisdictions
00:35:28as you can find in America?
00:35:30Well, that's a great question, Joe.
00:35:32Obviously, scalability is part of this.
00:35:35And the other question is affordability, right?
00:35:38So and logistics, too.
00:35:40I mean, not every racetrack has got the personnel.
00:35:41NIRA had to hire a technician to load these sensors into the horses and to unload them
00:35:47and charge the batteries and such.
00:35:50So there's an investment on that part.
00:35:53The Horseman's Association is involved with this.
00:35:55There's costs involved of the emailing and the communication and such and the training
00:35:59of people.
00:36:00There also is a need to have a good collaborative understanding with your veterinarians, you
00:36:07know, so that everybody can work together here.
00:36:10That's a really important piece I want to talk to you about just in a second.
00:36:13But getting back to your specific question, right now, we still don't know how expensive
00:36:21this is going to be for a racetrack to do this.
00:36:24I'm sure you're well aware that HISA is now requiring things of racetracks that were not
00:36:28required before, which cost money.
00:36:31And so in my own mind, and I don't know, honestly, Joe, but in my mind, this is probably
00:36:36not the time where HISA is going to start requiring this kind of technology, because
00:36:41the baseline is still very low.
00:36:43And the bar that has to be raised is very low.
00:36:46So we need to work up to stuff like this.
00:36:48Dr. Paul, I just wonder, though, is this perhaps opening up a Pandora's box?
00:36:53Because suppose a horse is red flagged.
00:36:56And from what you told us, that doesn't mean the trainer has to scratch the horse.
00:37:00The trainer comes back and runs a horse in three weeks and it breaks down.
00:37:03You know, boy, wouldn't PETA love to be all over that?
00:37:06Wouldn't horse racing's enemies like to be all over that?
00:37:08I just wonder, I mean, I love everything you do.
00:37:11I think it's great.
00:37:11But I wonder if, you know, that's kind of an avenue or an area where there might be
00:37:16some, you know, unforeseen problems.
00:37:19I think you're right, Bill.
00:37:20I think there's a potential for that.
00:37:22I think the way I would address it is we have to manage expectations.
00:37:27We have to manage expectations.
00:37:30This is not a magic wand.
00:37:32This is not a scarlet letter.
00:37:33Like I said, the thing that we're doing over time, Bill, is, in fact, the single event
00:37:39is not as important as if we have, maybe we have three recordings on the horse.
00:37:43Maybe he's raced three times.
00:37:45Maybe he was green, then turned yellow, then turned red.
00:37:47Now that's a trend in the wrong direction, right?
00:37:50And so that is important information.
00:37:52We could have a green, go to a red, and back to a green again, and everything's fine.
00:37:56But what if we had three red races in a row?
00:37:59Okay, the first time we examined the horse, didn't find anything.
00:38:02So, okay, if you do a thorough veterinary examination, you don't find anything.
00:38:07You know, I think, really, you have to say, well, okay, we got to really watch this horse.
00:38:12But a bad thing could still happen.
00:38:14We can't prevent everything from happening.
00:38:17But the point is that we should be able to do a better job.
00:38:22Last question for me, you know, I can't have an equine medical director on the show without
00:38:26asking about HISA and the upcoming, you know, medication control program that supposedly
00:38:31is going to be in place by January 1st, 2023.
00:38:34I think there's a little bit of an issue in racing where some of the smaller, you know,
00:38:38less effective drugs, trainers get popped for, and those get highly publicized.
00:38:42Like the Bob Baffert stuff, I don't think, in itself, you know,
00:38:45betamethasone was that big of a deal.
00:38:47Whereas there are some of the stronger drugs that people don't really talk about.
00:38:50Like I think of Clembuterol.
00:38:51And that really wasn't a big discussion point, at least amongst the laymen in racing,
00:38:55until Mark Cassie brought it up in the TDN.
00:38:57And now Clembuterol is pretty much banned everywhere you go.
00:39:00So what are some of the specific drugs, or maybe not specific drugs, but points of emphasis
00:39:04that you want to see in terms of cracking down on the stuff that actually does make a difference
00:39:09in terms of making races unsafer in terms of, you know, edge and performance.
00:39:13What's some of the stuff that you want to see
00:39:15emphasized when that medication control program comes into being next year?
00:39:20Okay, it's a little bit of a long story.
00:39:22Let me start out by saying I'm all over the Clembuterol thing that you may remember
00:39:27when those indictments came out back in 2019.
00:39:31And they had a laundry list of drugs that were given to these horses.
00:39:35I went to my executive director and I said,
00:39:37I don't think most of this stuff makes a bit of difference.
00:39:40I think the Clembuterol is what's going on here.
00:39:42And I said, they didn't even mention Clembuterol in the indictments.
00:39:45I said, in my book, it's all about Clembuterol.
00:39:48Now, are there going to be bumps in the road, difficulties getting every racetrack to do all
00:39:52the things they need to do? Absolutely.
00:39:54So, there's an implementation phase here that's going to be a little rough.
00:39:57But in the long run, I think it's a really great thing for horse racing.
00:40:01And remember, back in 19, I want to say maybe it was around 85,
00:40:05the Jockey Club hired the McKinsey Group to do interviews with folks,
00:40:10both racetrack insiders and the general public said, you know,
00:40:14what is it about horse racing that you don't like?
00:40:16Why don't you want to be involved with it?
00:40:18Is there a stigma about horse racing?
00:40:20And you remember what they said, they said two things, dead horses and drugs.
00:40:24Was that simple?
00:40:25Okay.
00:40:26So, I can assure you that most of my work is centered on reducing the amount of medication
00:40:32and keeping horses alive.
00:40:33It's that simple.
00:40:34That's what I do.
00:40:35And so, I think that when we get down to the drug thing, it's really important,
00:40:40along the lines of what you were talking about, to educate people to understand
00:40:43there's a difference between a performance enhancing drug and a controlled therapeutic
00:40:48drug.
00:40:48No athlete in the world can compete in a professional sport without some kind of
00:40:53therapeutic medication somewhere along the line.
00:40:56Okay.
00:40:57So, we have to be patient and give horses some slack in getting this going.
00:41:03And really, everybody's got to pull together.
00:41:05I mean, it's a federal law, Joe.
00:41:07It is what it is.
00:41:08We're not going to change it.
00:41:10We, you know, my job right now is just to ensure that we have complete continuity of
00:41:15all the programming and all the protective measures in place until such time as HISA
00:41:19can get up and running.
00:41:20And, you know, then we go from there.
00:41:22In areas where HISA doesn't speak, the state gaming commissions are still going to work.
00:41:26So, I'm, you know, two thumbs up for HISA.
00:41:29I think, though, we have to be patient, have to keep ourselves open to this.
00:41:33But I can assure you that the current medication program is all over the deal between the
00:41:38difference of blood doping and other performance enhancing drugs and the basic stuff that a
00:41:44horse needs to get along with.
00:41:46Well, that's great to hear.
00:41:47And Dr. Palmer, as long as we have people like you in charge and in positions of influence
00:41:52where you're looking out for the horses first and foremost, and also looking out for the
00:41:56future of the sport, I think we'll be in good shape.
00:41:58Thanks so much for the time and the expertise, Dr. Palmer.
00:42:01You're welcome, Joe.
00:42:01Thank you, Dr. Palmer.
00:42:02Welcome, Bill.
00:42:03Nice to listen with you both.
00:42:05Absolutely.
00:42:08How many games back do you have, Bill?
00:42:1014?
00:42:11Well, behind the greatest team in the history of baseball, what do you want?
00:42:15The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group, an accounting, tax, consulting,
00:42:19and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:42:22As this week's Green Group Guest of the Week, Dr. Scott Palmer will receive a free one-hour
00:42:26tax consultation.
00:42:28Learn more at greenco.com.
00:42:29We'll be right back after this message from The Green Group.
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00:43:10♪♪♪
00:43:38The TD on Riders' Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:43:41This week's XBTV Workout of the Week, of course, takes place at the spa.
00:43:46Saratoga opens tomorrow.
00:43:48It's Jackie's Warrior going four-for-longs and 49.70.
00:43:52Steve Aspreyson, trainee, owned by a friend of the show, Kirk Robison and Judy Robison,
00:43:57is undefeated this year.
00:43:59And his first three starts is pointing towards the grade one Alfred G.
00:44:03Vanderbilt handicap on July 30th.
00:44:06You can't wait to see him.
00:44:07He's one of those horses, Bill, that did stick around and does race.
00:44:10A horse that easily could have retired after his three-year-old season.
00:44:14But they brought him back, and he's a joy to watch every time he runs.
00:44:18Can't wait to see him up at Saratoga.
00:44:20And of course, XBTV is the home for all of your Saratoga workouts, all the Oklahoma track
00:44:25stuff, all of the main track stuff.
00:44:27I was handicapping tomorrow's card, and I was watching some of the two-year-old breezes,
00:44:32the two-year-old race.
00:44:33Two-year-olds get started early tomorrow, the second race on the card.
00:44:36I was watching some of those breezes at the Oklahoma and on the main track.
00:44:40It really is invaluable to your handicapping.
00:44:42The clocker reports are great.
00:44:43But with XBTV, a lot of times you don't even need the clocker report.
00:44:46You can watch the work yourself and make your own judgment.
00:44:49So definitely a valuable resource for this coming Saratoga meet.
00:44:53And of course, Delmar and all the other major tracks as well.
00:44:55So shout out to XBTV.
00:44:57Definitely doing a service to horse players there.
00:44:59Cannot wait for Saratoga and all those accompanying works.
00:45:02OK.
00:45:03So we're going to try to get this all into one segment this week.
00:45:06All of the guys, the really sleazy guys in racing who are finally getting their comeuppance.
00:45:11We have two in particular this week to report on.
00:45:13The first is trainer Juan Vasquez, who basically is a guy who's been kicked out of several
00:45:19different tracks.
00:45:20He has finally been suspended for a meaningful amount of time.
00:45:23The Pennsylvania Board of Stewards, I'm quoting from Bill Finley's story here,
00:45:26the Pennsylvania Board of Stewards has suspended controversial trainer Juan Vasquez
00:45:30through January 26th, 2025, alleging that Vasquez shipped a horse from Belmont Park
00:45:36to Parks Racing in January that was in such poor condition that it had to be euthanized
00:45:41shortly after its arrival.
00:45:43In their ruling, the stewards pulled no punches, calling Vasquez's actions grossly negligent,
00:45:48cruel and abusive.
00:45:49I think that's an understatement, if anything.
00:45:51And this is the kind of thing that's happened with him before.
00:45:54Just the guy who's a proven cheater, who's broken the rules over and over and over again
00:45:59and is finally seeing some significant punishment.
00:46:01And in Bill's story, he noted that January 26th, 2025 is when his license is supposed
00:46:08to expire.
00:46:09And then so he'll have to reapply for a new license.
00:46:12And supposedly, it'll be easier to deny him a new license than to revoke his current license.
00:46:18Obviously, this is a guy that does not need to be around horses at all, much less in horse
00:46:23racing, being one of our main trainers at even a B-level track.
00:46:28It's just it looks terrible.
00:46:30And it's just unfortunate that every horse that went through his care had to put up with
00:46:35him all this time.
00:46:36And hopefully, he'll never, ever be on the racetrack again.
00:46:39Bill, what do you have to say?
00:46:40Yeah, he also had another horse a while back that shipped to Belmont that when the horse
00:46:45arrived, it was dead.
00:46:47All right, so a couple of different takes on this.
00:46:49First of all, I mean, good for the Pennsylvania Racing Commission.
00:46:52And it's clear that they've had it with this guy.
00:46:56And there's going to be no more 30-day suspensions, 60-day suspensions, whatnot.
00:47:01They put the hammer down on him.
00:47:03And I guess in horse racing, anything is possible.
00:47:06And Marcus Vitale found a way back because the Arizona Racing Commission, of all things,
00:47:12gave him a license.
00:47:13But I got to think maybe this is finally the end of Juan Vasquez.
00:47:16This is going to be hard to come back from this.
00:47:18But here's my other take, Joe.
00:47:20On opening day at Saratoga, Juan Vasquez has two horses in on the card.
00:47:26And what's going on here?
00:47:27OK, so first of all, the Pennsylvania Racing Commission didn't start the suspension until
00:47:33the 18th of July.
00:47:34I'm not quite sure why.
00:47:35I'm sure they had a reason to do that.
00:47:37And then it's not Naira's fault because this back to the Baffert thing, this judge said
00:47:42they can't kick anybody out without giving them a hearing and everything.
00:47:45But let's look at the situation overall in the state of horse racing and as the game
00:47:51as a whole.
00:47:52How is that possible that a guy can get a two and a half year suspension called grossly
00:47:58negligent, cruel and abusive?
00:48:00And oh, hey, welcome to Grand Saratoga.
00:48:02It's opening day.
00:48:03Isn't this great?
00:48:04And who's going to win the Schuylerville today?
00:48:05And Juan Vasquez has two horses on the card.
00:48:08Now, everybody loves to hate PETA and for good reason.
00:48:11But what if PETA came out and said, wait a minute, you call this guy grossly negligent,
00:48:17cruel and abusive, yet he's running horses?
00:48:20Would they necessarily be wrong about that?
00:48:22I don't think so.
00:48:23Now, you know, I don't know if PETA is paying any attention to this.
00:48:25I guess I hope they're not.
00:48:27But, you know, there's something very wrong here.
00:48:29And racing needs to fix this.
00:48:31You know, it's good that Juan Vasquez is probably out of the game for good now.
00:48:35But shouldn't this have happened 10 years ago to this guy where just the industry as
00:48:40a whole said, enough.
00:48:41Goodbye.
00:48:42Spend the rest of your life working at Target, pal.
00:48:45Yeah.
00:48:45And he's like I said, he's a guy who's a proven cheater in multiple jurisdictions.
00:48:50It's not just like this is the one incident that got him to be suspended for a meaningful
00:48:55amount of time.
00:48:56And we talked about him last year.
00:48:57You know, we mentioned, unfortunately, that Joe Applebaum from NYTHA had horses with him.
00:49:02I don't think that's the case anymore.
00:49:04But when we were talking about that, you know, we talked about the horses, the miracle turnarounds
00:49:09that he's had with these horses, like the Critical Way, who was, you know, 10 years
00:49:13old and finding his best form last year as a turf sprinter.
00:49:16He had Hollywood talent who won the park's dash at 108 to 1 and then shockingly tested
00:49:23positive for a banned substance in that performance.
00:49:26And it's just one of those things where you should only get so many chances.
00:49:30And then that's where the lack of coordination comes in, where you could say, well, he failed
00:49:35these tests at this track or in this jurisdiction, but he hasn't done that here.
00:49:39And I think I assume that's why, you know, Marcus Vitale, you know, found a 50th chance
00:49:45somewhere in racing.
00:49:46But it's where the lack of coordination really hurts, where, you know, obviously, once the
00:49:51suspension comes in, you get reciprocity.
00:49:53But before that, it's all just kind of, you know, pissing in the wind because, you know,
00:49:59there's always going to be a time or a place where these guys are going to find a way to
00:50:03race a horse.
00:50:04But yeah, he's, you know, he's the kind of guy who, again, should just be toxic, should
00:50:08be toxic everywhere he goes in America.
00:50:10And it's not, you know, it's not as if we don't have, you know, a great amount of trainers
00:50:17who would take his place and do things the right way.
00:50:19You know, there are so many trainers who are getting pushed out of the game who are doing
00:50:22things the right way, and they just can't compete with the juicers of today.
00:50:26And, you know, there's no reason that a guy like him, there's no reason that he should
00:50:30be more valuable to a track or a racing jurisdiction than a guy who's trying to do things the right
00:50:36way and trying to play by the rules.
00:50:38And, you know, if it takes it, if it has to be one by one, and, you know, we have to be
00:50:43patient.
00:50:43And these guys, as long as they're gone from the game eventually, I think that's the only
00:50:48thing that matters.
00:50:49He's gone.
00:50:50I, you know, I don't want to name any names where there's some other guys who are kind
00:50:56of, you know, bending the rules a little bit in the past couple of years who I think should
00:51:00be gone.
00:51:00But he was the extreme case because not even just the drug violations, the stuff that we're
00:51:05talking about in this story, just horrible, cruel, abusive thing where he's just not
00:51:11taking care of the horses at all.
00:51:13And you just you obviously wonder how people like that sleep at night.
00:51:16And it just it's one of those things that's like you can't believe you share a country,
00:51:21let alone a species with people like this who would do this to horses.
00:51:25So I want to transition from that.
00:51:28You know, there's another guy who got his just desserts this week.
00:51:32It's Seth Fishman, who was the distributor for guys like Jorge Navarro and allegedly
00:51:38Jason Service.
00:51:40He got 11 years in prison this week, which, geez, that's a serious sentence.
00:51:45And I'm honestly, I don't know how you feel, Bill, but I'm like kind of pleasantly surprised
00:51:49with how much time these guys are getting.
00:51:50Like Jorge Navarro pled guilty, still got five years.
00:51:54Seth Fishman took it to trial, got 11 years and doesn't sound like he's, you know, with
00:51:59federal time.
00:52:00It doesn't sound like he's going to get out early.
00:52:02His sentence also includes a $250,000 fine.
00:52:05He must forfeit thirteen and a half million dollars, which I doubt he has.
00:52:08But that's the thing where they said that that's what his drugs supposedly earned.
00:52:14Jorge Navarro in illicit purse earnings.
00:52:18Yeah, I mean, the judge, I got to say the judge in this case really knows what she's
00:52:22talking about.
00:52:22I think when this these cases first started, we were a little bit worried about who the
00:52:25judge was going to be, whether or not they were going to have an intimate knowledge of
00:52:28racing.
00:52:29Mary Kay Viscoso, it seems like, knows this stuff inside and out.
00:52:33And she's done a very good job.
00:52:34Next, I think, is Jason Service.
00:52:38And also what happened to Nick Surick?
00:52:39Wasn't he one of those defendants and one of those guys who was allegedly abusing and
00:52:43killing horses in harness racing?
00:52:45I don't throw a lot of stuff at you, Bill, but go ahead.
00:52:47OK, so Nick Surick first in a superseding indictment that came out at some point in
00:52:52time, his name was taken off of it, which leads you to believe it's not.
00:52:58It's obvious that he's cooperating and he was closely linked to Navarro.
00:53:02So I'm wondering if he cooperated behind the scenes or was ready to testify against
00:53:07Navarro.
00:53:08Is he completely off the hook?
00:53:09I don't think so.
00:53:10I don't really know that that whole thing has been a little bit confusing to me.
00:53:14But yeah, he's he's, you know, of the real bad guys and the real, real bad guys.
00:53:20He's one of the real, real bad guys.
00:53:23Yeah, I'm I was pleasantly surprised as well that this guy got hammered.
00:53:27And boy, did he get hammered 11 years in jail.
00:53:31And, you know, there's a couple of things going on right now.
00:53:34I mean, he was doing terrible things, supplying people with drugs with, you know, couldn't
00:53:38care less about what what it would mean to the horses, whether or not it would mean in
00:53:42some cases, you know, horses were dying with some of these trainers.
00:53:45And Joe, you nailed it.
00:53:47This judge, I've been in a couple of these courtroom cases.
00:53:50She she absolutely gets it.
00:53:53She absolutely gets how serious this is.
00:53:55And I also suspect that she has a real affinity for the animal, just some of the things she
00:54:01said, which is great.
00:54:02You should have an affinity for the animal.
00:54:04That's what was missing from all these people.
00:54:07And also, you know, you got to give kudos to the government and the Department of Justice
00:54:11to they have created airtight cases.
00:54:15I mean, they have every piece.
00:54:17That's why, you know, you wonder if fishmen and service going to trial, what were they
00:54:21thinking?
00:54:22There was no zero chance, not even a one percent chance.
00:54:25There was zero chance this guy was going to win at a trial.
00:54:29He gets 11 years.
00:54:30You can't tell me that if he didn't plead earlier, it might have got five or six.
00:54:34That's how the system works.
00:54:36And, you know, he got what he deserved.
00:54:38Good riddance.
00:54:39And yeah.
00:54:41And Jason, you're next, pal.
00:54:42I think Jason service will sentence will eclipse fishmen.
00:54:47I think he's going to wind up being the guy that gets the longest sentence whatsoever.
00:54:51And he's the last guy standing.
00:54:52And as everybody says, in cases like this, you know, that's the last thing you want to
00:54:56be.
00:54:56It's the last guy standing.
00:54:58Everybody else cops, please.
00:54:59Rats everybody else out.
00:55:00No, no.
00:55:01Jason taking this all the way to, you know, to the end.
00:55:03He's taking it to the finish line.
00:55:05And the finish line is going to lead to San Gwenn.
00:55:08You know, we talked about it before, but I just don't understand what he's thinking.
00:55:12Honestly, like, is it just hubris?
00:55:14Is it just well, I mean, I don't know.
00:55:17I can't understand why you would want to take it to court with the feds, especially after
00:55:21you're watching what's happening with all the other people with Navarro and now Fishman.
00:55:25Like, I would be shitting bricks if I saw him get a fishman get 11 years and I'm the
00:55:31last guy standing.
00:55:32And when the music stops, like, I just don't get it.
00:55:35But yeah, that trial starts next year, early next year in 2023.
00:55:39And, you know, there's going to be fireworks.
00:55:41And, you know, there's no, honestly, for these guys, there's no amount of time, really, that
00:55:45that would be that would be satisfying completely.
00:55:48But 11 years is pretty damn good.
00:55:50So it was a good week.
00:55:52I think, you know, we haven't had many weeks like this.
00:55:53We talk about it on the show.
00:55:54We usually just complain about how trainers are getting away with stuff and not getting
00:55:59punished.
00:55:59This was a good week for getting the bad guys out of here in terms of Juan Vasquez, never,
00:56:05hopefully never being around a racehorse again or horse period.
00:56:08And Seth Fishman, a guy who was the facilitator and the enabler for so much of the scummy
00:56:14juicing that we saw all these years, gets 11 years in jail.
00:56:18And I know someone said this in the comments, and I wonder about this, too.
00:56:22I don't think it couldn't have just been like Jorge Navarro that he was giving drugs to.
00:56:25It's got to be other trainers and other clients that he had.
00:56:28And I would love I would love to see that client list and the owner's list.
00:56:32And I just I wonder who else is out there that had been using Seth Fishman's services
00:56:37that is still training racehorses?
00:56:39Because I imagine there are some.
00:56:42CDN Writers Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:56:44Joining a West Point Thoroughbreds partnership can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie
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00:56:54You can learn more at westpointtb.com.
00:56:58West Point's superstar Flightline put in his first work since the Met Mile at San
00:57:02Anita on Saturday when four furlongs in 47 flat best of 54.
00:57:08Can't wait to see him in action at Del Mar later this summer.
00:57:10And if you're lucky enough to be at Saratoga this summer, be sure to stop by the racing
00:57:14partnership and syndicate night at the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame on Tuesday,
00:57:19July 19th.
00:57:20That's next Tuesday from 530 to 730.
00:57:23West Point and several other partnerships will be there.
00:57:25You can learn more about getting involved in thoroughbred ownership there.
00:57:29I can't think of a partnership that's better to get involved in with than West Point, but
00:57:33there are plenty of partnerships out there that are welcoming new people into the game.
00:57:36And it's a great, great thing.
00:57:38And West Point is at the top of that game.
00:57:40And obviously with horses like Flightline, it's natural that you want to be involved
00:57:44with West Point and thoroughbred syndicates.
00:57:46We'll be right back after this message from West Point Thoroughbreds.
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00:58:21Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
00:58:24We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
00:58:27We know it's a huge responsibility.
00:58:29We're always with your horse, every step of the way.
00:58:32When it comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse.
00:58:37Just driving up and down the road every day.
00:58:39There's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal,
00:58:43the people that come to invest in the game.
00:58:45I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can,
00:58:48because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
00:58:52The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
00:58:55If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business
00:58:58could benefit your program, give Tommy or Wendy a call.
00:59:00They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own.
00:59:04Yearling sale season is here, so make plans to stop by Tommy and Wendy's
00:59:07consignment at the Keeneland September sale.
00:59:09Nominations deadline for the Keeneland November sale,
00:59:12where they'll have horses as well, is August 1st, so give them a shout.
00:59:16It's great that yearling sale season is back around,
00:59:19because I know that they do a ton of work, a ton of prep work.
00:59:22So we got the Fasig Saratoga sale coming up in the summer,
00:59:24and then obviously Keeneland September and a couple other smaller sales
00:59:28that I think they're going to be at as well.
00:59:29So shout out to Tommy and Wendy, and everybody at Legacy, give them a call.
00:59:34This week's Remy cartoon, we have a certain fan of the show and friend of the show,
00:59:38Bobby Flay, making an appearance.
00:59:40And going against the horse, I guess, makes sense as we get towards Saratoga.
00:59:45And the horse's signature dish, he says, is oats.
00:59:48Of course, what else would it be?
00:59:50And on the backside is maybe one of the only places that Bobby Flay would not win.
00:59:54One of those cooking competitions.
00:59:56So shout out to Bobby, and I'm sure we'll see him a bunch on the Saratoga backstretch.
01:00:00And of course, shout out to Remy,
01:00:02who can't wait to see all of his cartoons this summer as the Saratoga racing week unfolds.
01:00:07Wanted to mention this real quick before we get out of here.
01:00:10This was a major story, and we had the representative who was spearheading this
01:00:14on last year about bringing penny breakage to Kentucky racing.
01:00:18Now, if you're unfamiliar with breakage,
01:00:21breakage is basically money being stolen from horse players.
01:00:26If your bet is supposed to pay $2.36, they'll round it down to $2.20,
01:00:31or sometimes $2.30, and that money adds up over time in terms of churn.
01:00:38Horse players can't have that money in their account and re-bet it.
01:00:42And it doesn't seem like a lot, but it is a lot if you add up all of your winning wagers
01:00:46over the year and all of the pennies and the nickels that you did not get.
01:00:50So this coming Friday, this is from the Thoroughbred Idea Foundation,
01:00:54and shout out to Pat Cummings from TIF, who was a big,
01:00:57big proponent of this and I think really helped get this ball moving.
01:01:01This Friday, starting at Ellis Park, the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission
01:01:05confirmed that the shift will take effect this week to penny breakage
01:01:09three months after the legislation enabling the change was passed by
01:01:12the Kentucky General Assembly and signed into law.
01:01:17Until now, I'm quoting the story here,
01:01:18until now, if the unbroken return on a show bet was $1.48.5,
01:01:24the return for every $1 unit was rounded down to $1.40.
01:01:27The $2 bet returned $2.80.
01:01:30Beginning Friday, in the above example, a winning better would receive the full $1.48
01:01:35for every dollar.
01:01:36The $2 bet from this example would return $2.96.
01:01:42That's almost 10%.
01:01:44That's like a little less than 10% of what you should normally be getting
01:01:47that you haven't been getting.
01:01:48I know Bill, always a champion of the horse player, has some feelings on this.
01:01:52Yeah, it's terrific.
01:01:53And again, Joe, like you said, it doesn't seem like a lot,
01:01:55but this thing adds up over time.
01:01:57You know, you bet the horse and it goes off at three to one and it comes back
01:02:02and pays $8.20 when it should have paid $8.37 or something like that.
01:02:06It doesn't seem like a lot, but it really is.
01:02:08So, you know, again, shout out to the people, Adam Koenig, the representative
01:02:12that pushed this through, Pat Cummings was behind it as well.
01:02:14Now, and you're right, I mean, this was highway robbery.
01:02:18This money belongs to the horse players, but they had this excuse going back
01:02:21to the 1960s where they didn't want the clerks paying off the winning bets.
01:02:25You have to worry about pennies and that sort of thing.
01:02:28Well, you know, now that 90%, 92, 3% of the betting is done online or away
01:02:33from the track, that doesn't make any difference whatsoever.
01:02:36My one hope would be that this doesn't stop at Kentucky.
01:02:39This should happen, you know, at every single racetrack and every single
01:02:42jurisdiction in the country.
01:02:44But, you know, this money is going into the pockets of someone other than
01:02:48the horse players.
01:02:49So there's people out there, organizations or whatever, they're going to fight this.
01:02:54But yeah, you know, congratulations to Kentucky.
01:02:57And, you know, we moan and groan all the time about, you know, people don't
01:02:59look out for the horse player.
01:03:00Well, damn, these guys really did.
01:03:02And, you know, again, I can't say enough good things about it.
01:03:04No, they sure didn't.
01:03:05And your point is well taken, that there's no reason that this shouldn't be
01:03:10adapted and adopted everywhere across the country.
01:03:12This should be in every track, especially the major tracks.
01:03:16It just made no sense.
01:03:17And again, it's one of those things that it just looks so old.
01:03:20It looks so old and out of touch compared to sports betting now that we're
01:03:24competing with sports betting.
01:03:26This would never happen in sports betting.
01:03:27They're always going to pay you down to the penny.
01:03:29Otherwise, they know that people would leave and they would think they're
01:03:32getting screwed.
01:03:33This is something that horse players, I think, have just become inured to over
01:03:36time because they're used to it.
01:03:38And now that it's actually changing, I think people are going to feel the
01:03:41difference.
01:03:41And again, hat tip to Thoroughbred Idea Foundation and the Kentucky House of
01:03:46Representatives for getting this done.
01:03:48Now let's get it done in New York and California and all down the line.
01:03:51Give horse players their rightful money down to the penny.
01:03:55All right.
01:03:55So Saratoga starts tomorrow.
01:03:57I said earlier that one o'clock is the first post.
01:03:59It's actually 105.
01:04:00Cannot wait for that.
01:04:0140 days starts tomorrow.
01:04:02We glued to our TV.
01:04:04So that's going to do it for this week's edition for the TDN Writers Room presented
01:04:07by Keeneland this November.
01:04:08Keeneland is the place to be as the home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships,
01:04:11which will be followed directly by the November breeding stock sale.
01:04:15Entry deadline for November is August 1st.
01:04:17So get those entries in.
01:04:18You can learn more at november.keeneland.com.
01:04:21I want to thank Bill Finley, our Green Group Guest of the Week, Dr.
01:04:24Scott Palmer, our producer, Patty Wolf, our guest director today, Sue Finley, our
01:04:29associate producer, Katie Petruniak, and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aaliyah
01:04:32LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:04:34Thank you so much for watching.
01:04:36Have fun this weekend at Saratoga.