• 2 days ago
Transcript
00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:21This is our life's work.
00:00:24Good morning, it's November 9th at 9.35am and this is another edition of the TDN Writer's
00:00:31Room.
00:00:32I'm your host, Bill Finley.
00:00:33Thanks for joining us again.
00:00:34Well, Zoe, Randy, gee, where should we start, huh?
00:00:38Let me think.
00:00:39How about Flightline?
00:00:41And Zoe, don't play that drinking game again because the over-honor on how many times we
00:00:45say Flightline on this podcast is going to be about 200.
00:00:49And I don't want to see you have to take 200 shots of anything, okay?
00:00:53I'm not drinking in the morning.
00:00:55I'm in England and it's 2.30 in the afternoon, so I mean, I can drink whenever I want.
00:01:00I'm on holiday.
00:01:01Good for you.
00:01:02Well, you can have, when the podcast is over, you can gladly have some drinks.
00:01:06The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:01:09Returning this November, Keeneland will offer a single session dedicated to racehorses on
00:01:13the final day of the sale, which is November 17th.
00:01:16Flightline left me speechless, but now being speechless wouldn't be good for a podcast
00:01:20now, would it?
00:01:21So, you know, we're going to talk about all aspects of his race.
00:01:25It was just, I mean, again, I'm struggling in these words, but that's what he did to
00:01:30me.
00:01:31It was phenomenal.
00:01:32And the thing about this horse is there's so much hype every time he runs from the time
00:01:37he broke his maiden back whenever last year, and you think he can't possibly live up to
00:01:43it.
00:01:44And he does every single time out.
00:01:45Matter of fact, I think he exceeds it.
00:01:47It was sensational.
00:01:48It was brilliant.
00:01:49It was dazzling.
00:01:50It was magic.
00:01:52Whatever superlative you want to come up with, Randy.
00:01:54You know, the eight length margin of victory was not only the largest in the history of
00:02:00the Breeders' Cup Classic and visually impressive.
00:02:03If you dig a little deeper into the way the race set up, it makes the victory even more
00:02:09impressive, even more dynamic, if that's even possible.
00:02:13The only concern that I and some other people had about Flightline, the only possible scenario
00:02:18we could see him losing would be the fact that he had never had to chase a horse as
00:02:25fast as Life is Good.
00:02:27And what happened if he got competitive and they drew off down the backstretch 10 lengths
00:02:32ahead of the rest of the horses and the pace was out of control and he was facing by far
00:02:37the best group of horses he'd ever faced in his life?
00:02:41What would the final quarter mile look like for Flightline in that scenario?
00:02:46And what happened?
00:02:47Life is Good set as the data at Keeneland only goes back to 1991.
00:02:54He set the fastest quarter, half, and three-quarter mile fractions at a mile and a quarter in
00:03:01that 31-year period.
00:03:02In the history of the Breeders' Cup, Life is Good set the fastest quarter and three-quarter
00:03:07mile fraction and tied for the fastest half mile fraction.
00:03:11They opened up 11 lengths on the field going down the backstretch and the whole time going
00:03:15down the backstretch, Flightline was being ridden a little bit to keep up with Life
00:03:20is Good, to keep to stay in touch with Life is Good.
00:03:23So I was wondering, you know, how is this going to play out now?
00:03:27And lo and behold, he did what he did and just blew by Life is Good, draws out through
00:03:35the stretch.
00:03:36Because of the way the race was run, he's not going to get another 126 buyer speed figure
00:03:42like he got in the Pacific Classic.
00:03:44But to get a 121 in those circumstances, the way that race shaped up is extremely flattering
00:03:53for Flightline.
00:03:54Tell me why he couldn't have got another 126, I'm not sure your point there.
00:03:59Well, because he expended so much energy during the first part of the race, you know, 109.27
00:04:05is now the adjusted six-foot-long fraction for the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:04:10And I think it's legitimate.
00:04:11I think it's fair.
00:04:12And just the efficiency of the race from Flightline's perspective, he expended a lot of energy during
00:04:19the first part of the race to try to keep up and stay in touch with Life is Good.
00:04:23There's no way that that's not going to have some effect on him, even being Flightline,
00:04:29the last quarter of a mile.
00:04:30And I think it did.
00:04:31And the fact that he ran a 121 to me is amazing in those circumstances.
00:04:36It was a sublime performance.
00:04:38I only wish that I hadn't had to come home and was able to see it in person, because
00:04:44I was there for Faro's Classic win, and it was extraordinary.
00:04:48It was almost like being in the grandstand when Zenyatta took down the Classic at Santa
00:04:52Anita.
00:04:53But it was an absolutely sublime performance to see those two horses go at it, to see Flavian
00:05:00Pratt, who rarely, rarely ever looks behind.
00:05:04It was almost like he'd seen that picture of Ron Turcotte and Secretariat.
00:05:09When he's looking behind like that, it was almost like he was setting himself up for
00:05:13the picture, which has been got.
00:05:15It's been snapped.
00:05:17And for him to look around and to come up to perhaps the second best horse in the world,
00:05:23because we were all lauding Life is Good last year when he took down the Breeders' Cup dirt
00:05:29mile and said, oh, I was in the wrong race, you should have been in the Classic.
00:05:32And then Nix Go won the Classic, and then he beat Nix Go down at the Pegasus World Cup.
00:05:37And it was like Life is Good is the best thing ever.
00:05:40And to see Flavian Pratt come up next to Life is Good, still looking for competition, like
00:05:45sidled up next to him, and is just doing this, like, where are they?
00:05:51Couldn't even barely see them behind him and going about his business.
00:05:55It was an extraordinary performance, one that we'll never see in the Classic again.
00:06:00I mean, you won't ever see that.
00:06:02And the difference, with all due respect to American Pharoah, as you pointed out, the
00:06:06difference between American Pharoah's Classic win in 2015 and Flightline's is that all the
00:06:11early speed was scratched out of that Classic in 2015.
00:06:16And American Pharoah had the opportunity to run an extremely efficient race on the early
00:06:22lead and conserve energy.
00:06:24Flightline ran in a Breeders' Cup Classic that fractionally was tailor-made for a pace
00:06:31meltdown.
00:06:32And yet he not only overcame that, he excelled despite the circumstances.
00:06:37He basically ran in the sprint for six furlongs and then just kept going for a mile and a
00:06:42quarter is what he did.
00:06:44I mean, it has to be single-handedly the best performance on Breeders' Cup records ever.
00:06:49So the question becomes, then, was this his best race ever?
00:06:53And the Pacific Classic was more dazzling, not that this wasn't dazzling, but I mean,
00:06:58that race, the 19-and-a-quarter lengths and just, you know, your jaw dropped, you couldn't
00:07:02believe what you were seeing.
00:07:04This didn't quite live up to it, but I would say it was certainly his best race ever because
00:07:08of the level of competition.
00:07:10The level of competition in the Pacific Classic was, quite frankly, pretty weak behind him.
00:07:14Look at who he beat in this race, Teba, Olympiad, Rich Strike, Hot Rod Charlie at the center
00:07:20did pull up, obviously, we know about that, Happy Saver.
00:07:24This was a really, really strong race behind him.
00:07:27Matter of fact, if Flightline weren't in this race, we'd be saying this was a really good
00:07:31Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:07:33Life is good, of course, I didn't mention him.
00:07:35So I think based on the level of competition he faced and how he won so definitively, it
00:07:41was his best race ever.
00:07:42I mean, frankly, I would have been a little bit disappointed.
00:07:45This is how high the bar was set.
00:07:47If he went out and won by two-and-a-half lengths in a drive over Teba or something like that
00:07:52or over Olympiad, I always said, well, yeah, he was good, but boy, I sure was kind of expecting
00:07:58more.
00:07:59He lived up to it.
00:08:00He crushed, absolutely crushed, an excellent field of horses and some horses who, in their
00:08:05own right, are stars.
00:08:06I mean, look at what a kind of horse Olympiad is.
00:08:08I mean, it's probably one of the most underrated horses we've had this year.
00:08:11Look at what kind of horse Teba is.
00:08:13Joey just did a good job of telling us what kind of horse Life is Good is.
00:08:17So for that reason, I think this will go down, of his six races, the best race of his career.
00:08:22Yeah, I mean, I look at it as he duplicated his 19 and three-quarter length win in the
00:08:27Pacific Classic just under different circumstances and against tougher competition.
00:08:31But I wouldn't argue with anyone, like you just pointed out, Bill, who would say that
00:08:36this that the Classic was the best race of his life.
00:08:38Hey, we all picked the under, so we should all be giving him a round of applause because
00:08:43we all picked under six lengths and he is definitely over six lengths.
00:08:47So Flightline wins.
00:08:49Drink. Hold on.
00:08:51This is all right.
00:08:54So now the hype continues and I don't even want to use the word anything with hype with
00:08:58this horse. It's kind of unfair.
00:09:00But, you know, everybody's now trying to put this in perspective.
00:09:03Where does he fit? Is he the goat?
00:09:05Is he is he on the Mount Rushmore?
00:09:07Where does he fit with the horses of all time?
00:09:10And, you know, to me, you know, does he is he the equal of secretary?
00:09:14I would say from a career standpoint, you just can't compare them.
00:09:18The horses from two extremely different eras, different times in racing.
00:09:22Secretariat won the Triple Crown.
00:09:24Flightline didn't run in any of the Triple Crown races.
00:09:27Secretariat set a track record in all the Triple Crown races.
00:09:30Secretariat ran 21 times in his career and what was also an abbreviated career because
00:09:34he didn't come back at four after being retired after winning up at Woodbine in his
00:09:39final career start. So and then I talked to Ron Turcotte the other day, and of course
00:09:44he said Secretariat was better.
00:09:45What would you expect?
00:09:47But he also brought up, you know, not only did he bring up Secretariat, he said, how
00:09:50do you compare him to a horse like Kelso, who I don't know, what did he run?
00:09:53Probably 60, 70 times won the Jockey Club Gold Cup five straight times.
00:09:57It's too much apples and oranges for me to even go there.
00:10:01But I would say this, if you just want to look at talent and nothing else, inability.
00:10:06I'm not going to say he's as good as Secretariat, but I think he belongs in the same
00:10:10equation with him. He belongs in the same conversation.
00:10:12Randy, that's exactly what I said on NBC after the classic.
00:10:16I totally agree that he belongs in the same conversation.
00:10:19And it is impossible, in my opinion, to compare horses who compete 49 years apart.
00:10:24Too much has changed in the sport.
00:10:26There are too many variables that you can't account for.
00:10:30Even if you dive in to the metrics and you dive into the analytics and you try to do
00:10:35speed figures from 1973, like some speed figure makers have tried to do, and you
00:10:40compare them to 2022, I just don't think it can be done with any degree of certainty
00:10:45and with any degree of accuracy.
00:10:47So what we're left to do is just judge the two horses on the merits that we've seen
00:10:53within the context of their particular generation.
00:10:57And I think it's just going to have to suffice to say that Flightline deserves to be in
00:11:02the conversation. I'm not willing.
00:11:05OK, even though I believe that there are races that Secretariat ran that in which
00:11:12Flightline would have beaten him, and I'm not talking about the Wood Memorial or his
00:11:17loss to Onion or his loss to Prove Out.
00:11:19I think there are probably some other races Secretariat ran that Flightline might have
00:11:23been able to get the best of him.
00:11:25But given the fact that Secretariat was a two time horse of the year, amazingly, he
00:11:32set records in the Kentucky Derby and Belmont timewise that still stand 49 years
00:11:39later and the Belmont record of which will probably never be equaled.
00:11:44Forget the 31 lengths, 224 flat for a mile and a half is just absurd.
00:11:49And then he not only does all that, he finishes his career beating the best turf horses in
00:11:55North America to boot.
00:11:57So I can't go as far as to say that Flightline is the equal of Secretariat, but he
00:12:04deserves to be on Mount Rushmore.
00:12:06And I don't think anybody would deny that.
00:12:10No, I think you're absolutely right with what you're saying.
00:12:13And this, like you said, it's a different time and age you compare.
00:12:17Flightline ran over two seasons, which he did.
00:12:20Secretariat ran over two seasons, but ran arguably a lot more times, 21 to six.
00:12:26If you count the grade one wins, of course, the graded stakes system was actually only
00:12:30introduced in 1974.
00:12:32So if you're going down the page and counting them, you'll see that Flightline has four
00:12:36and you'll be like, oh, my goodness, Secretariat's only got five.
00:12:40But it wasn't introduced in in 1973.
00:12:43It was just it started happening in 74.
00:12:46So it's apples and oranges and it's a different time we're living in.
00:12:51And horses just simply don't run that much.
00:12:55For me, it would have been awesome to have seen Flightline run on the grass because I
00:12:59have always thought that he has a turfy action.
00:13:02His damn feather did her best running.
00:13:04She ran on the dirt and was a very good filly, but she did her best running on the grass.
00:13:09So if you put all that together, sons of Tappet and daughters of Tappet run on just
00:13:13about any surface. Could you imagine how good he might have been on the grass with
00:13:18that action? Imagine how good he might have been on an off track, because John's always
00:13:21said he trains better when the track has been tighter in the mornings and he trained
00:13:27fantastically at Keeneland.
00:13:29The track was tight with the rain they got there.
00:13:31So I think sky's the limit and we're going to be forever saying what if.
00:13:35But it's done.
00:13:37He's been retired to start and we all got to see that share sell on Monday, which was
00:13:43phenomenal.
00:13:44Oh, my goodness.
00:13:46That was a lot of money.
00:13:48Yes, it was. So let's get to the retirement now.
00:13:50I got it. I feel a little bit gullible.
00:13:53I was drinking the Kool-Aid.
00:13:56Well, I was like a little kid at Christmas.
00:13:59This is so great. I don't want it to end.
00:14:01And hey, you know what?
00:14:02The owners, I don't really know what to make of all this talk beforehand.
00:14:06I mean, in the podcast, the podcast 1.0, you know, Costa Ronas came on and said that, you
00:14:12know, famous quote that we use, there's a great possibility that he's going to run next
00:14:16year. And, you know, other people told me, you know, don't be foolish.
00:14:20Of course, this horse isn't going to run next year.
00:14:23It's worth too much money.
00:14:24The insurance premiums to keep him going, you know, and then all the talk.
00:14:29Well, we're going to sit down and talk about it.
00:14:31And, you know, the we woke up Monday morning and within five seconds there was a press
00:14:37release. He's retired.
00:14:38And look, I get it.
00:14:39I can't say I'm surprised.
00:14:42I just feel a little bit kind of foolish, a little bit that I, you know, usually I'm a
00:14:47cynical guy and I was anything but here thinking, oh, you know, the joy of this horse.
00:14:51And they'll never they'll never let this go.
00:14:54And he's going to run next year.
00:14:55He's going to have five more starts and it's going to be the greatest thing for horse
00:14:58racing. And, you know, I shame on me.
00:15:02I need to go back to my cynical, cranky self because I kind of look kind of silly in
00:15:06this. I mean, I even wrote and I like the column, but I wrote this column in Monday's
00:15:11what it would have been in Sunday's TDN about, you know, how they've got to bring them
00:15:15back and it's going to be the greatest thing ever.
00:15:16And, you know, again, by the time the ink was dry on the column and people printed it
00:15:20up on their printers, the horse was already retired.
00:15:22So, you know, no surprises.
00:15:23Obviously, I'm very, very disappointed, but I guess I should have seen this coming.
00:15:28And, you know, but again, like I said, I get it from an economic standpoint.
00:15:32And this is as much as we love this as a sport.
00:15:34It's still a business. It made absolutely no sense to run them next year.
00:15:38Yeah. What did I say initially?
00:15:40I thought he had a one percent chance of coming back next year.
00:15:43And then I adjusted it upward when I found out that Bill Farish said that he would at
00:15:48least, you know, consider the possibility.
00:15:50What kind of cemented it for me was when Farish told me that when we discussed with
00:15:58him, I discussed with him the possibility and what some of the thinking would be.
00:16:04And he pointed out to me this was not on our podcast.
00:16:07This was this was another time he said.
00:16:11If Flightline were to come back with another similar performance in the Breeders' Cup
00:16:17Classic at that point, one of the factors would be what else would he have to prove?
00:16:24And that's the exact language basically that Farish used after the fact, after he was
00:16:29retired. When they left the winner's circle Saturday, it was a 100 percent chance to me
00:16:36that he was going to be retired.
00:16:37That would have been the perfect.
00:16:40Avenue for them to announce that they were going to run him again the next year, and
00:16:45they would have known by then if they were going to run him, it would have been cheers
00:16:49from the grandstand. It would have been the perfect moment when they left that winner's
00:16:53circle and they didn't make that statement.
00:16:56Then I knew because they didn't want to spoil the moment.
00:17:00They didn't want to spoil the enthusiasm by saying in the winner's circle that he was
00:17:06going to be retired. But they knew they knew when they were standing in the winner's
00:17:09circle. Is that enough?
00:17:12Quite simply, I mean, you're asking for trouble after this.
00:17:17I mean, poor John.
00:17:19I mean, I can only imagine the kind of pressure that he's been under each and every day
00:17:24training that horse, shipping that horse, waking up in the morning, you know, your call
00:17:29to the barn and just wondering what's happened now.
00:17:32Anything can happen. Horses get sick, horses colic, horses come out limping.
00:17:37There's a multitude of things.
00:17:38The fact that he kept him undefeated for two seasons.
00:17:42And I'm not talking six for six.
00:17:44I'm talking undefeated for two years or just under two years.
00:17:49That's a lot. That's a lot, regardless of how many times you run.
00:17:53The fact that he was able to get that horse ready for most of the scheduled races.
00:17:58He missed one in between because of a hock injury.
00:18:02But the fact that he was able to put a campaign like that together and not just staying in
00:18:06California, shipping across the country as well was, you know, kudos to John and his
00:18:11team. They did a fantastic job.
00:18:13I've talked so much about this horse.
00:18:15I forget where I've said it.
00:18:16Did I go through the fantasy season for Flightline in 2023 on this bike?
00:18:21You did not. I want to hear it.
00:18:23This kind of puts the economics in perspective.
00:18:25Suppose Flightline kept running in 2023.
00:18:28He starts off winning the Pegasus World Cup.
00:18:31Right. Then he goes to Saudi and he wins the Saudi Cup.
00:18:33And then he goes to Dubai and he wins the Dubai World Cup.
00:18:36And then he gave him a couple of months off and he comes back and he wins the Whitney at
00:18:39Saratoga. And then they ship him back to California and he wins the Pacific Classic at
00:18:43Delmar. And they say, oh, what the heck?
00:18:45And he wins the Arc de Triomphe in Paris.
00:18:48And he comes from the Arc de Triomphe and he wins the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:18:51And then they say, let's run him one more time.
00:18:53And he wins the Japan Cup in Tokyo.
00:18:55Oh, my goodness. That's that's a season that's a virtual impossibility to achieve.
00:19:01That's better than Secretariat right there.
00:19:03That's 30 million dollars in earnings.
00:19:06He can make that much and probably more sitting at Lane's Inn Farm and breeding.
00:19:13Right. Well, that's the point.
00:19:14Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right.
00:19:15So then the big sale on Monday, he sells for four point six million dollars, the two
00:19:20point five percent fractional share.
00:19:22You do the math that makes him worth one hundred and eighty four million dollars.
00:19:26I tried to get people beforehand to guess for how much he was going to sell for.
00:19:29They said this is type of thing you can't guess.
00:19:31The only thing I'll say about that, I don't think it makes him necessarily worth one
00:19:35hundred and eighty four million dollars because it's a supply demand thing.
00:19:39There was only one of these being sold.
00:19:41If there were 10 being sold, would they have all gone for four point six million
00:19:45dollars each? No, I don't think they would have.
00:19:47I mean, they still were going for a ton of money.
00:19:49But again, I don't want to rain on their parade.
00:19:52It was a tremendous accomplishment and shows the popularity of this horse with
00:19:56breeders and the staggering amount that he's worth.
00:19:59But I think we got to temper the enthusiasm a little bit on the hundred eighty four
00:20:03million. Yeah, so I was going to let you jump in there.
00:20:09I mean, yeah, I'm not sure I've got much more to say on white line.
00:20:13What's the guy's name that bought him?
00:20:15Nobody knows. They won't say sites was that was the agent who was
00:20:21undisclosed buyer, which is kind of silly to me.
00:20:24Why wouldn't the person want anybody to know that?
00:20:26Whatever. I think it's been released.
00:20:28There's been nothing I've seen.
00:20:30I don't know. You might know something that I know.
00:20:31There's been some noise.
00:20:34Well, I read some estimates before the two and a half percent
00:20:39sale that flight line was going to be worth 80 million, 90 million.
00:20:43And I kind of I kind of threw the challenge flag on that mentally because the value
00:20:49of authentic when he was retired to start was right at sixty five million dollars,
00:20:53his deal. And, you know, he's a nice horse.
00:20:57Authentic won the Kentucky Derby in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:20:59All, you know, all hail authentic.
00:21:02And he's very well bred.
00:21:03But if authentic is worth sixty five million, then I would think flight line would be
00:21:08worth probably double that.
00:21:10That's right. If not double, then somewhere in that vicinity, well over one hundred
00:21:15million dollars, I would say.
00:21:17One hundred eighty four, I agree, is probably circumstantial and it's probably not
00:21:22accurate. But I wish I owned a part of him.
00:21:25I'll say that. Yeah, I'll go for point.
00:21:29Oh, two five percent.
00:21:31I'd be very, very happy.
00:21:34All right. Yeah. And I think it's very cool that West Point thoroughbreds with the
00:21:38November sale have been going around and buying some mares in a new partnership to
00:21:43send to flight line as well.
00:21:44And this is something they've never done before, is buy mares to breed to their
00:21:49stallion, which, you know, that's a whole nother story in and of itself.
00:21:54The TDN Riders room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:21:57There were an awful lot of horses that ran in the Keeneland fall meet that came back
00:22:01to win Breeders' Cup races.
00:22:03They include Forte, who took down the Breeders' Cup juvenile Wonder Wheel.
00:22:07She took down the Breeders' Cup juvenile fillies.
00:22:09We saw Malifat.
00:22:10She took down the Spinster.
00:22:12And then, of course, she won a fantastic edition of the Distaff.
00:22:16Caravelle took down the grade three Franklin at the Keeneland fall meet.
00:22:19And then she took down the Turf Sprint.
00:22:22The Keeneland September sale graduates include both Forte and Wonder Wheel, who
00:22:27graduated from the 2021 Keeneland sale.
00:22:30Malifat and Elite Power are graduates of the 2019 Keeneland sale.
00:22:35You can get an awful lot at the Keeneland.
00:22:37And don't forget, the Keeneland November sale was off to a fast start.
00:22:40Book one stats from Monday include a champion Midnight Bisou.
00:22:44She sold for five point five million dollars.
00:22:48Ten lots sold for one million dollars or more.
00:22:51Average price, four hundred and ninety two thousand dollars.
00:22:55And don't forget, the sale does continue through November the 17th.
00:23:00We'll be right back after these messages from Keeneland.
00:23:04When the thoroughbred world descends upon Lexington this November,
00:23:08there is one place you need to be the place where history comes alive
00:23:13with every championship victory.
00:23:17The place where the future is built with the fall of a gavel,
00:23:22the place that exists to be the heart of this industry.
00:23:25The center of it all.
00:23:27Home to the November breeding stock sale and 2022 Breeders' Cup Keeneland.
00:23:35It was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.
00:23:38Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:23:40Tis the law. Pops the cork and the champagne.
00:23:43Tis the law is going to win the first leg of the Triple Crown.
00:23:47I've never seen him get tired.
00:23:48Respect the law. Tis the law.
00:23:51His structure is just perfect.
00:23:53His bone is perfect.
00:23:55He's left the others behind.
00:23:56He's going to win the Run Happy Traverse.
00:23:58He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:24:05The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:24:07What a weekend Uncle Mo had at Keeneland.
00:24:10Talk about a winning son of Uncle Mo.
00:24:13Let's talk about Arabian Night, a Baffert second time out
00:24:16who broke his maiden at Keeneland on Saturday and was named a TDN Rising Star.
00:24:22There was an Uncle Mo wheeling Philly out of Bellafina
00:24:25who sold for 1.35 million.
00:24:28And he also had a trio of million dollar mares at that sale.
00:24:32Also standing new at Coolmore is Golden Pal, now retired to Ashford.
00:24:37Bill. So speaking of Arabian Night, there is an offshore bookmaker
00:24:42has already put up prices for the next year's 2023 Kentucky Derby.
00:24:46It's called BetOnline.ag.
00:24:48They've made Arabian Night the second choice.
00:24:51That's 16 to one, better than Cave Rock.
00:24:54As a matter of fact, Forte is 12 to one.
00:24:56So that's the kind of play that Arabian Night is getting
00:25:00off that very impressive win for the Coolmore sire, Uncle Mo.
00:25:03OK, one of the we did all the flight line all the time.
00:25:05Oh, did we go over or under on the 200 references to flight line?
00:25:09It's right about close.
00:25:10What do you think?
00:25:11I think it's over.
00:25:12OK, other there were, of course, other Breeders' Cup stories to talk about.
00:25:17And the Europeans, what a day they had.
00:25:20What a two days they had.
00:25:21Seven turf races, six of them won by the Europeans.
00:25:25Two trainers dominated and only to Aiden O'Brien and Charlie Appleby.
00:25:29And as good as Aiden O'Brien was, I left there thinking I will never
00:25:34not pick a Charlie Appleby horse again in any way.
00:25:38I don't care if he brings a stable pony over.
00:25:41I am picking him.
00:25:42And I feel so foolish for picking against them on the podcast last week.
00:25:46I tried to poke some holes in some of this guy is absolutely
00:25:49unbelievable. He's nine for 17 career in the Breeders' Cup.
00:25:54Now, how does that stack up against some of the best trainers
00:25:57in Breeders' Cup history?
00:25:58Wayne Lucas is the leading trainer in Breeders' Cup history with 20 wins.
00:26:02He's won with 12 percent of the starters.
00:26:04Bob Baffert is second with 18 wins.
00:26:07He's won with 13 percent of the starters.
00:26:10Aiden O'Brien, his contemporary, his main rival in Europe
00:26:13as one with nine percent of the starters.
00:26:15And that's after winning the three here.
00:26:18And over the last two years, he entered eight Breeders' Cup races
00:26:22and won six of them.
00:26:24And to me, it would be seven of eight if Silver Knot got out of the gate
00:26:27in the juvenile turf.
00:26:28He had a very tough trip and lost to O'Brien in a very tight photo.
00:26:32And I think he was best in there.
00:26:35Charlie Appleby is unbelievable in what he's doing.
00:26:38And there's no letting up.
00:26:39He's doing this time after time, not just in the Breeders' Cup,
00:26:42but anything he brings to North America.
00:26:44And the other thing, too, is I don't think he's necessarily bringing
00:26:47stars over here.
00:26:48I mean, these are very good horses, but they're not horses that,
00:26:51you know, the Baids or the Alpinistas of European racing.
00:26:55He obviously knows exactly who to bring over, how to do it.
00:26:59Take nothing away from Aiden O'Brien.
00:27:00But I thought Charlie Appleby was, again, for the second straight year,
00:27:03the training star of the Breeders' Cup.
00:27:05Well, the European dominance was
00:27:09not surprising.
00:27:09Yeah, I wanted to say astounding, but that almost makes it sound like
00:27:12that it's a surprise.
00:27:14And it's not, obviously, because we know year in, year out,
00:27:17the Americans excel on dirt primarily and the Europeans
00:27:20dominate most of the turf races.
00:27:23At Keeneland, the last 11 Breeders' Cup races
00:27:26that have been run at Keeneland specifically,
00:27:29European horses have won ten.
00:27:32That's and the and the only outlier there,
00:27:36it was the Saturday turf sprint that Caravelle had to run
00:27:40the race of her life to win.
00:27:41She ran a 107 by her speed figure, somehow pulled that one out.
00:27:45And Europeans ran second, third and fourth behind Caravelle.
00:27:50And they never win the turf sprint at either.
00:27:52Right. Exactly.
00:27:53So, you know, look, I think the primary
00:27:58you've got three colossuses worldwide in breeding.
00:28:02You've got Coolmore slash Aiden O'Brien.
00:28:04You've got Godolphin slash Charlie Appleby.
00:28:06And you've got Juddmont and their various trainers, including
00:28:10including John Gossam.
00:28:11They all won races at this Breeders' Cup.
00:28:13And I think the the primary thing that makes them so formidable
00:28:19is that whereas in the United States, most of the top breeding
00:28:23farms are commercial breeders and they sell at Keeneland
00:28:27and they sell at other sales and they disperse their top horses
00:28:31around the country to various buyers.
00:28:34Coolmore, Godolphin, Juddmont all breed to race
00:28:38and they all collect these unbelievable broodmare bands
00:28:41and they don't put them up for yearling auction.
00:28:43They keep them.
00:28:45And that's what makes, you know, it because they have so much money behind them
00:28:49and they develop these generation by generation
00:28:54deep broodmare bands.
00:28:56They're just unbelievable that they are the formidable
00:29:01owners slash breeders in the world.
00:29:03We saw it at the Breeders' Cup.
00:29:04They won three, Godolphin won three, Coolmore won three.
00:29:08And their involvement in the Breeders' Cup,
00:29:12their commitment to the Breeders' Cup cannot and should not be underestimated
00:29:17as far as the success of the Breeders' Cup.
00:29:20OK, they played instrumental roles.
00:29:23So far, Coolmore has had one hundred and ninety five Breeders' Cup starters.
00:29:30Godolphin has had one hundred and fifty eight.
00:29:33Juddmont has had eighty six.
00:29:35The top North American owner in the Breeders' Cup is in the mid 40s.
00:29:41Coolmore has brought more than four times as many horses
00:29:45to the Breeders' Cup over the years as the top American owner has,
00:29:49and they didn't even really get started bringing horses over
00:29:51until like the late 1980s or so.
00:29:54So it's just astounding what these organizations have done worldwide
00:29:58and what they've done at the Breeders' Cup.
00:30:00And I think it really adds to the Breeders' Cup year in and year out.
00:30:04I think it's fantastic because it's now truly is a worldwide event.
00:30:09And it's really interesting that the Euros fare so well at Keeneland
00:30:12because it's it's a tighter turf course.
00:30:15It's inside the main track and it's a sand based turf course.
00:30:20And I don't know if they're just getting a little bit of better acceleration,
00:30:23a little better push off of that sand based turf course,
00:30:27because I know over the years
00:30:29sometimes the best turf horses in the world don't like Keeneland.
00:30:32And sometimes horses only like Keeneland.
00:30:35So it's been a tricky turf course to gauge over the years.
00:30:38And I'm not knocking the turf course at all.
00:30:41But it's one of the few in North America that are sand based turf courses.
00:30:45It drains very, very well.
00:30:47But I've ridden over it numerous times and some horses just don't like it.
00:30:51Some horses love it.
00:30:52And then you can't find them with the search warrant
00:30:54at Churchill or at the fairgrounds or at Santa Anita.
00:30:57So it's a tricky turf course to gauge.
00:31:00And as far as the Dolphin and Coolmore coming over with their homebreds,
00:31:05I mean, they've been fantastic.
00:31:07Juddmont of late have had not as many homebreds
00:31:11as they did, say, two decades ago.
00:31:13They've done very well at the sales and have been predominantly buying
00:31:18an awful lot of their horses.
00:31:20You go back and look at those horses.
00:31:21A lot of them are being bought and they're kind of going a different direction
00:31:25now as Juddmont, but they're still buying very good horses
00:31:28and winning an awful lot of races at the Breeders' Cup.
00:31:31So for me, it was a fantastic Breeders' Cup in that sense.
00:31:35And Randy, oh, my goodness,
00:31:36did you ever hitch your little red wagon to the right trainer
00:31:40because you were all over Appleby like a rat?
00:31:43So I applaud you for that.
00:31:46I'm supposed to be buying you Bloody Marys for as long as you can drink them.
00:31:50And Holly Doyle perhaps did not have her best day.
00:31:53She also wasn't that well mounted at the end of it.
00:31:57You know, the Platinum Queen was perhaps done for the year
00:32:00and Nashua never really got a shot to show what she's made of.
00:32:04So, yes, when I see you, Randy, Bloody Mary's on me.
00:32:08Well, I may choose to sub out Margarita for Bloody Mary, but
00:32:12thank you for the commitment there.
00:32:16As far as the Keeneland thing, I've got a theory about that.
00:32:19And I, you know, I talked to some trainers about it.
00:32:23We saw at the beginning of the Keeneland meet, the course,
00:32:25the turf course was extremely firm.
00:32:28They were setting stakes records in almost almost every every stakes
00:32:31that they that they rolled out there.
00:32:33It was hard.
00:32:34And I was told they did this in 2020 as well.
00:32:39They had a watering program leading up to the Breeders' Cup,
00:32:43I think, to try to sort of out of fairness to try to put a little
00:32:48a little more give into the turf course and make it fair
00:32:53for both the Europeans and for the Americans.
00:32:56And we saw that horses could come from well off the pace
00:33:00over the Keeneland turf course.
00:33:02It was very honest as far as speed.
00:33:04We saw an Italian almost hang on to win the Philly and Merritt turf,
00:33:07but you could also come from last place like a couple of the Appleby horses did.
00:33:12It was very fair in that regard.
00:33:13I think it had a little bit of a cut in the ground.
00:33:15I think it was a perfectly honest course.
00:33:17And the results were what we saw when you get that situation
00:33:20with Charlie Appleby and Coolmore, the Europeans dominate.
00:33:24And how about I have to say this as well.
00:33:27Ryan Moore and Bill Buick and of course, James Doyle riding circles.
00:33:32And I'm sorry, American jockeys, they rode absolute circles around them
00:33:37to close from that far back to find the trip.
00:33:40We even saw it in the juvenile turf.
00:33:42Mike Smith on Pax Wallop came off the rail.
00:33:45Maybe you should have stayed there and went around horses.
00:33:48And then you see the Godolphin Blue coming straight down the rail.
00:33:52Those guys rode circles around some of our best jocks over here.
00:33:56No question.
00:33:58Seven miles for Ryan Moore, three wins, three seconds
00:34:00and a sixth, I believe, on Order of Australia.
00:34:04Just a day for a little bit for your co-host having to interview Ryan
00:34:09because I love Ryan, but he's not always the best interview in the world.
00:34:13It would be like trying to interview Mike Maker three times in a row.
00:34:18I'll try that.
00:34:19So I did feel for Donna having to interview Ryan three times.
00:34:25So the the best race of the Breeders' Cup and, you know,
00:34:29I'm not going back to flight line here, but I think we knew this going in.
00:34:32Boy, did the Distaff live up to expectations.
00:34:35Well, that was as sensational a race as you're going to see in the Breeders' Cup
00:34:40with three horses on the wire, a nose apart with Malathat
00:34:44in her final career race, getting the victory over Blue Stripe
00:34:47and then another nose back to Clarriere.
00:34:49I kind of feel bad for the trainer, Marcelo Polanco.
00:34:51The big boys so dominated the Breeders' Cup.
00:34:54This guy has won only seven races total over the last three years,
00:34:59and he loses by a nose in the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
00:35:01But it was not all frowns on their faces because the next day
00:35:05they sold the horse for four million dollars at Fasig-Tipton.
00:35:08And the horse is not going to go for four million dollars
00:35:10if she didn't run that tremendous race in the Breeders' Cup.
00:35:13So shout out to Marcelo Polanco.
00:35:15It would have been nice to see someone other than the super trainers
00:35:17and O'Brien and Appleby win a Breeders' Cup race.
00:35:21But it wasn't meant to be with, you know, Mott having also Mott and Pletcher
00:35:25also having a tremendous run.
00:35:26But, you know, talk about a race living up to expectations, Randy.
00:35:31Oh, I mean, let me ask you guys a question
00:35:35because you both picked Nest, OK?
00:35:38What happened? I picked Clarriere.
00:35:41I picked Society. I'm even worse. Go ahead.
00:35:43So so but what happened to Nest?
00:35:47That's a good question. I don't know.
00:35:48Well, she I first I was getting ready to say she wasn't good enough,
00:35:52but I think she's a better filly than that.
00:35:55You know, she didn't run a terrible race.
00:35:57But, you know, she I guess she just didn't have it.
00:36:00It wasn't her day.
00:36:01I like to come up unless Randy has some more a better theory than that.
00:36:04That's the best I can come up with.
00:36:06No, I mean, it was very difficult to gauge her prep race
00:36:09coming in to the Breeders' Cup because she was one to 20.
00:36:13Right. And she wins by nine lengths or whatever against horses
00:36:16that she just completely laid over on paper.
00:36:19The only theory I have is that maybe she just didn't quite get enough
00:36:22out of that race from a maybe not so much from a conditioning standpoint
00:36:26as from a mental, you know, toughness kind of standpoint,
00:36:32you know, that that would really get her primed mentally
00:36:35to face the horses of the caliber of Malifat and Clarriere.
00:36:39And as it turned out, Blue Stripe, that's my only theory about Nest.
00:36:42Boy, what a race.
00:36:43What a race that was.
00:36:44I'm glad to see Clarriere bounce back from her poor race
00:36:48when she hit her head in the starting gate in the personal incident.
00:36:50I think the difference between Malifat and Clarriere was just trip,
00:36:53as it usually is between those two horses.
00:36:55But that race really, really lived up to advanced billing.
00:36:59It was they got some great pictures for that.
00:37:01Three heads on the wire.
00:37:03Perfect. One, two, three.
00:37:06It really was a race for the ages.
00:37:09And I'm delighted for Malifat.
00:37:10I think she deserved it.
00:37:12I feel for Marcelo.
00:37:13I know Marcelo out here.
00:37:15And he said he finally got Blue Stripe figured out.
00:37:18And Marcelo can train a good horse.
00:37:19If you remember the work that he did
00:37:22probably a couple of decades ago with Island Sand, she was a grade one winner.
00:37:26And that's pretty much the last good horse that he had.
00:37:29He managed her career very, very well.
00:37:31And he didn't get Blue Stripe all that long ago
00:37:34and has figured her out very, very quickly.
00:37:36So you can do it with the right horse.
00:37:39It's just being given the opportunity in this day and age.
00:37:42I apologize for not looking this up in advance in my in my reams
00:37:46and reams of charts that I don't have on my iPad.
00:37:49Sorry, Zoe.
00:37:52I feel pretty confident in saying that this is probably the only race
00:37:58in the history of the Breeders' Cup in which the winner wins by a nose
00:38:02and the second place horse is a nose ahead of the third place horse.
00:38:07All right, Randy, Zoe asked you what happened to Nest.
00:38:10I'm going to ask you what happened to Jackie's Warrior third year.
00:38:13You know, it's kind of unfortunate.
00:38:14He's such a good horse.
00:38:16But three years in a row, odds on favorite.
00:38:19And he really laid an egg this year in the sprint.
00:38:23You have any theories on that one?
00:38:25Yeah. Well, other than you just got outrun
00:38:28because he leaked power, I think is a is a really nice up and coming horse.
00:38:32But I think what we've seen from Jackie's Warrior
00:38:36throughout his career is that when he is
00:38:40clearly the dominant horse in a race,
00:38:44he wins with such authority and so impressively and so easily
00:38:50that it makes people think that he's that he can run that way every time.
00:38:54And then when he gets into a race, as in this case with Super Ocho
00:38:58and a lot of early pace pressure, sometimes he doesn't run quite that well.
00:39:02Sometimes he does.
00:39:03But his worst races are when he's in that situation and he ran well.
00:39:09He finished third.
00:39:10He was right there digging in through the stretch.
00:39:13But this was one of those days with the pace pressure, et cetera,
00:39:16where he wasn't good enough.
00:39:18That's all I can say.
00:39:19And I think, you know, if you look back, especially to last year as well.
00:39:25Not the four or five races is a long campaign campaign.
00:39:29Well, it is now.
00:39:30It's always at the end of the year when he's run some massive, massive races.
00:39:34Last year, he went out with a knee chip.
00:39:36So that was the excuse.
00:39:37Maybe this year he's got something else.
00:39:38We'll never know.
00:39:39He's been retired to the breeding shed, but it's the tail end of the year
00:39:43when he's run some massive, massive numbers and some massive races,
00:39:48which even though inherently they look like the horses are doing it easy,
00:39:52they need a certain period to recover off those races.
00:39:55We last saw him run a huge number.
00:39:57That's back in August.
00:39:59So he ran a big number on the sheet.
00:40:00So Steve gave him the time he needed.
00:40:03Maybe he needed more time, you know, and Steve rarely runs a horse
00:40:07that is not at the top of their game.
00:40:10He's very, very good at gauging when a horse is going to run his best race.
00:40:14They usually get good.
00:40:15They stay good.
00:40:15And then they're retired.
00:40:17That's what Steve does.
00:40:18So, you know, maybe it's just the end of a long year.
00:40:22So to speak for Jackie's warrior.
00:40:24I mean, I don't know.
00:40:25He didn't run awfully just.
00:40:29I felt really badly for Asmussen at the end of the breeders.
00:40:31I had a horrible day.
00:40:32Oh, yeah.
00:40:33I mean, Echo Zulu ran well in defeat.
00:40:35But to have Jackie's warrior go out like that, it was very upsetting to him.
00:40:41And then to have what happened to Epicenter, knock on wood,
00:40:44it looks like he's going to be OK for a stud career.
00:40:46But I mean, what a, you know, what a horrible Saturday for for Steve Asmussen.
00:40:50And privately, he ran well on private.
00:40:52I felt for him as well because and I love this for Steve
00:40:56because he's basically a horseman first.
00:40:58If you know Steve, he can be a little bit gruff on the outside,
00:41:01but he loves his horses.
00:41:03He doesn't want to deal with the media only when he has to.
00:41:06There was a picture of him running to the backside to get his horse.
00:41:10He's not like a paper trainer who will stand on the front side
00:41:13and call the vet and talk on the phone.
00:41:15He sprinted from the front side to the back at backside
00:41:19to be with that stricken horse.
00:41:21His two assistants, Scott Blasey and Sarah Campion,
00:41:25went with the horse in the ambulance.
00:41:27They stayed with the horse as long as they possibly could.
00:41:30So kudos to the whole team for putting the horse first.
00:41:34And he doesn't go looking for TV cameras.
00:41:37Right. I mean, we know as you as you pointed out to his credit.
00:41:42Yes. When Jackie's warrior lost.
00:41:45Right. How many trainers in that situation would be nowhere to be found?
00:41:49Right. They would be they would make the excuse,
00:41:52I got to go back to the barn to be with my horse or whatever.
00:41:54Steve will stand up in front of the TV cameras.
00:41:56When in his moments of most bitter disappointment, epicenter
00:42:00after the Kentucky Derby, when he thought he had won a rich strike,
00:42:02ran him down at 80 to one shot in the closing strides.
00:42:05We see it time and time again with Steve.
00:42:07He'll stand up there and and face the music
00:42:11when his horses don't run up to expectations.
00:42:15It also should be noted that domestic spending, the other horse
00:42:17who was injured also seems to be that he's going to be fine as well.
00:42:20Chad Brown's been tweeting and updating everybody on that,
00:42:22which is much appreciated.
00:42:24He had a broken pelvis and obviously he's going to be retired.
00:42:28And Chad Brown says they're going to give him a great home
00:42:30after his recovery is full.
00:42:32So some bad news that turned into good news with the two horses
00:42:36that were injured at the Breeders' Cup. Both are going to be fine.
00:42:39So flight line was two to five to win the Breeders' Cup Classic
00:42:42and came through.
00:42:43If you think those are short odds, it's this is about a one to 50 shot.
00:42:49The Lane's End Stallion of the Week, drum roll please, is Flightline.
00:42:55Stay tuned for his stud fee.
00:42:57That's going to be fascinating.
00:42:58And with the horse of his speed and stamina and pedigree
00:43:03and with the mares that are going to be delivered to Flightline
00:43:07from not just North America, but from all over the world, you know, racing fans,
00:43:11breeders, owners everywhere are going to be eagerly awaiting his first
00:43:15winglings and yearlings and two year olds.
00:43:17Flightline, the Lane's End Stallion of the Week.
00:43:20Accelerate, a five time grade one winner with over six million in earnings.
00:43:26In 2018 alone, he won the Santa Anita Handicap, the Gold Cup,
00:43:31the Pacific Classic by a record setting twelve and a half lengths.
00:43:35The awesome again and bested a world class field in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:43:40A grandson of legendary Lane's End Stallion, Smart Strike.
00:43:44Accelerate stands to continue his grand sire's legacy.
00:43:48At Lane's End.
00:43:59The legacy of Adina Springs is monumental.
00:44:03This is one of the greatest horse farms built in modern racing history.
00:44:11The way this farm was developed makes it a premier facility to raise a horse.
00:44:17It has 20 horse barns.
00:44:19It has 25 homes for employees.
00:44:22There's about 250 stalls on this farm.
00:44:27You appreciate the fact that he took a blank canvas
00:44:32and developed it to one of the finest horse farms in all of America.
00:44:38Adina Springs is poised for somebody to come in at the very highest level
00:44:43into the thoroughbred racing industry.
00:44:47So congratulations to Leonard and John Green for their victory.
00:44:53DJ Stables and the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies with Wonder Wheel.
00:44:56That works good in this spot right here because their green group,
00:45:01an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm specializing in thoroughbreds
00:45:05happens to be the sponsor of our Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:45:09Learn more about how they can help you by going to www.greengroup.com.
00:45:14And we welcome in our Green Group Guest of the Week, Lisa Lazarus,
00:45:17the CEO of the Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Authority.
00:45:20Lisa, welcome.
00:45:21First question that I have off the top of the bat,
00:45:23where are things right now regarding the assessments with the states?
00:45:27Are there some states you're having problems reaching agreements with?
00:45:30And come January 1, if you don't reach agreements with them, what happens next?
00:45:35Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me today.
00:45:37I'm really delighted to be here.
00:45:39So as you probably know,
00:45:40there are 14 states that are actually racing on January 1st.
00:45:44So we only have about half of the overall number that we that we regulate racing on January 1.
00:45:51We're pretty far along with a number of states in terms of reaching agreements.
00:45:55If we don't reach an agreement with them, what essentially happens is the horse
00:45:59racing, integrity and welfare unit, essentially hire staff to perform the services
00:46:05that they're supposed to be doing.
00:46:07Essentially hire staff to perform the services that the state racing commissions used to perform.
00:46:13So the assessments essentially are based on the recognition that we're sort of all better off
00:46:18if we can keep the money that's currently being spent towards anti-doping in the system.
00:46:24And we do that by obviously reaching agreements with state racing commissions.
00:46:28In those states where we can't, what ultimately happens is the obligation falls to the race tracks
00:46:34to be the collectors and to essentially come up with a formula for covered persons within that state
00:46:40or that are using that track to contribute towards the assessment.
00:46:45So, Lisa, if you didn't know before you took this job, which I'm sure you did, I mean, you know,
00:46:51now horse racing is, I guess, traditionally resistant to any kind of change.
00:46:57And there was obviously a lot of pushback to HISA when it was first proposed and then it was first
00:47:02enacted that you guys have been having to deal with.
00:47:06How does, how has some of that initial resistance been overcome?
00:47:13And where do you stand right now, you think, overall with some of those situations?
00:47:19So I think, number one, you know, you're absolutely correct.
00:47:22I mean, one of the things that's useful as we look to launch the anti-doping program on January 1
00:47:28is that we've had a number of months where we've been overseeing and implementing the racetrack safety program.
00:47:34So we've gotten to know the state racing commissions.
00:47:36We've gotten to know a lot of the racetracks.
00:47:38And I think, honestly, listen, I certainly can't sit here and say that everybody's on board now,
00:47:44but I definitely feel that each day we get closer and closer to acceptance and support.
00:47:49And I think that's really about the tone that we set and that my staff sets in terms of wanting to help,
00:47:56you know, make the industry better.
00:47:57We're not looking to make things more difficult or more complicated.
00:48:00We're looking to basically provide this foundation of safety and integrity
00:48:06that everyone in racing can build their businesses upon, you know, that sort of stable, stable foundation.
00:48:12And I think that there's starting to be a recognition that that's happening.
00:48:16And I also think that, you know, when the legislation was being discussed and ultimately passed,
00:48:22everybody was talking about how great it would be to have a national sort of unifying anti-doping program
00:48:28where every horse is tested for the same substance at the same levels.
00:48:31And we launched in July. We didn't provide that.
00:48:33We provided, you know, racetrack safety rules.
00:48:35And so I think there's good support anticipation around the anti-doping program.
00:48:40And I'm looking forward to launching it in January.
00:48:43Lisa, first off, I would like to personally thank you because you have a thankless task.
00:48:50This is the job that nobody wanted coming in.
00:48:54So from myself personally, and I'm sure the guys here and the rest of the industry, I would really like to thank you.
00:49:02Because it really is a thankless task.
00:49:04And then we're moving towards January the 1st.
00:49:07What can you tell us about Five Stones moving forward?
00:49:11Because they are the guys that really got this on a mission.
00:49:16They turned up a lot of good stuff over the past couple of years.
00:49:20And how are they going to start enforcing things come January 1st?
00:49:23So, you know, we have been engaging with Five Stones around some of the work that they've done to try to really, you know, take on board some of the learnings and some of the processes.
00:49:33The Horse Racing Integrity and Welfare Unit is also building their own internal capability, their own internal investigations team, which is very strong and is going to include some sort of well-known and well-established faces.
00:49:46And really, we're going to, you know, I think probably why you asked the question, and it really resonates with me, is that the new program is going to be very much intelligence and investigations based.
00:49:57It's not going to be based solely on, you know, conducting a whole lot of tests.
00:50:01It's going to be it's going to look at what we call sort of smart testing, because we believe that's really important to make a difference.
00:50:08And I think if you look at all the top ant building programs in the world, equine and otherwise, you'll see that the successful ones that really deliver integrity to their sports rely heavily on investigations.
00:50:21That's great, thanks, because I mean, what they've uncovered over the past couple of years has really changed this industry for the better.
00:50:29They truly have.
00:50:31You know, they have certainly done a terrific job and we're lucky to have them as part of the sport.
00:50:36So, Lisa, the HISA has been sort of phased in, I suppose is the best way to put it, with the medication component coming up January the 1st, once you get involved, once you get, we get up to January the 1st, is it all going to be the medication component of this all going to be enacted at the same moment, every part of it, or are there going to be similar sort of phase ends from the medication standpoint?
00:51:06Yeah, no, that's a great question, Randy. I mean, the difference with the anti-doping and medication control program is really significant with regards to the launch, because we take the entire space, you know, come January 1, state racing commissions won't have the authority to conduct any sort of sample analysis or testing.
00:51:24And so that's also, in some ways, it's a bigger opportunity. It's certainly a bigger lift, but it's also allows us kind of the tools to be, I think, even more successful because you can't truly have kind of uniform integrity, uniform anti-doping rules if you don't also have, you know, uniform lab analysis, you know, uniform chain of custody, investigators are all, you know, operating off the same sort of hymn sheet.
00:51:49So those are all the things that we're putting in place. And I think what you'll notice on January 1 is a very different look and feel with how anti-doping is actually conducted in the states.
00:52:00So it seems as if the biggest resistance that you've had so far has been from the state of Texas, who is even willing to, you know, sort of voluntarily suspend all out-of-state simulcasting and basically economically shoot themselves in the foot to try to to try to make this work.
00:52:19So to make a point, I assume, where does Texas stand now with regards to the to the whole HISA situation?
00:52:27So Texas, as you recognize, took themselves out of HISA authority by essentially informing all of the racetracks in Texas that they weren't authorized to export their signal for parimutuel wagering.
00:52:41So HISA gets its jurisdiction from thoroughbred racetracks that export their signal. That's essentially kind of the criteria to fall within our jurisdiction.
00:52:51And so when Texas essentially cut that off, they no longer became a part of the states that we regulate.
00:52:58So and there's been no change to that.
00:53:00And we would love to have Texas, obviously, we would love to engage with them.
00:53:04But they they take the position that they can't implement HISA rules because they conflict with the Texas Racing Commission's code.
00:53:15You know, we just have a sort of dispute over over the application of the code and HISA.
00:53:21But they've taken this position and we're moving forward.
00:53:25Is there anything different with the Texas code as opposed to the code in other state racing commission?
00:53:31Not in my opinion.
00:53:32I mean, they're essentially Texas's view is that because the Texas Racing Code gives the Texas Racing Commission exclusive jurisdiction to run racing in that state that they therefore don't have the authority to implement HISA.
00:53:48What I would say to that is, you know, when racing commissions were created, there was no expectation that there'd be a federal authority or a federal law.
00:53:55So many racing commissions codes say that very same thing.
00:53:59But they've recognized that federal preemption is, you know, is the governing principle and have accepted that HISA has the authority, whereas Texas takes a different position.
00:54:08So what happens if a lot of other states want to follow suit?
00:54:15Can they?
00:54:16Sure. I mean, any state can decide that they no longer want to be under HISA's authority by declining to export their signals.
00:54:24But that's a very massive financial penalty for the racetracks to endure.
00:54:30And so we haven't seen any signs that any other state will take that same position.
00:54:34Where did the legal challenges that have been put forth by Texas and I think a couple of other states, where does that stand right now in the court system?
00:54:42So we're waiting for there are two appeals, both in the Fifth Circuit and the Sixth Circuit.
00:54:47And then there's also the case that originated in Louisiana, you know, not that long ago.
00:54:54And those cases are now essentially, you know, before the judges were awaiting decision.
00:55:01Lisa, I have a question about the racetrack safety and integrity program and at least one racetrack,
00:55:07which our Dan Ross has been writing about.
00:55:08Mountaineer Park clearly has not been up to par so far as what HISA wants of the racetracks.
00:55:15I don't know if there's others out there, but, you know, Mountaineer is a pretty good example.
00:55:19What can be done about something like this and how can you get everybody on board with this?
00:55:24So, you know, we're engaging daily with all of the with any of the racetracks that we feel are not meeting the safety requirements.
00:55:31If those racetracks continue to ignore, you know, ignore the rules and continue to resist
00:55:38sort of getting up to speed and fulfilling the obligations that our rules require,
00:55:43then there is progressive discipline that we will obviously enforce.
00:55:47And that culminates in the removal of the signal.
00:55:52How close are you to doing something like that?
00:55:54I mean, this sounds pretty draconian.
00:55:56Could that be ultimately what would happen to some of these racetracks?
00:55:59And so I want you to repeat, they would not be able to send out their simulcasting signal anymore.
00:56:04That would be the ultimate punishment.
00:56:05Correct. Exactly.
00:56:08Lisa, what's the general feel moving forward?
00:56:10Because I saw you at Breeders' Cup and you were there, you were shaking hands,
00:56:15kissing babies, doing all the right things and meeting with all the right people.
00:56:19What is what is the general feel moving forward?
00:56:23Because from my perspective, it's it's positive.
00:56:26So what have people told you about Heiser moving forward?
00:56:30And what complaints have they had at the same time?
00:56:34So, you know, I've had a lot of really positive feedback in the last couple of months.
00:56:39I generally feel that the tide is shifting in a lot of places.
00:56:43Of course, there's always going to be groups that resist.
00:56:46But I think there's a recognition that Heiser is here to stay and that we're not the enemy.
00:56:50You know, we're trying to support the industry, help grow the industry,
00:56:54giving it the tools it needs to be successful, you know, for many years to come.
00:56:59And so that's that's a really significant difference.
00:57:01I think in terms of the complaints, you know, some of the complaints that we heard early
00:57:05on was that there was not enough engagement from horsemen who are on the track every day.
00:57:10I took that complaint to heart.
00:57:12And, you know, and a lot of that was about the speed at which we had to create rules,
00:57:15et cetera.
00:57:16And we have very capable committees who are doing that.
00:57:18But we established the Horsemen's Advisory Group,
00:57:21which now has, you know, 19 sort of very well regarded,
00:57:25at least I think well regarded members across the country in different roles.
00:57:30And I'm engaging with them regularly when I have questions and we're meeting.
00:57:33And I think that's going to really, you know, close a very important gap.
00:57:38And the feedback that's been really positive.
00:57:40I feel like everybody sort of the philosophy behind creating that group was every single
00:57:46racing participant should feel that somebody in that group speaks for them.
00:57:50You know, and that's what we've that's what we've been able to accomplish.
00:57:55What's been the hardest part,
00:57:56like the very hardest part that you've had to deal with that's had the most pushback?
00:58:02So I think the hardest part is from, you know,
00:58:06horsemen or race participants who really feel that this is making their lives harder
00:58:12or not achieving the goal of improving the industry, et cetera.
00:58:16And I think that that's something that we only can show over time.
00:58:20Before the racetrack safety program launched, there were a lot of rumors circulating
00:58:24about, you know, highs of going to people's homes and searching homes and farms and whatever.
00:58:29I think now that we're a number of months in and none of that's materialized,
00:58:33I think a lot of that kind of anxiety is really calming down.
00:58:38And some of the benefits, because as I said, I think a lot of trainers,
00:58:42I would actually say the majority of trainers really want uniform, robust anti-doping rules.
00:58:49And I think with that on the horizon, you know,
00:58:52attitudes are shifting and that sort of folks are saying, OK, let's sort of see,
00:58:55does this really going to work? We're really going to get that thing we've always wanted,
00:58:58which is a level playing field. And that's, I think, where I see I see change.
00:59:03Lisa, the four months in, where do things stand with a crop rule?
00:59:07And are you satisfied how that's been going?
00:59:09So I think the crop rule is really one of the big success stories of Hyza.
00:59:13We faced a lot of resistance around the crop rule when it was first,
00:59:16you know, when it was first introduced back in July.
00:59:20And there was, you know, a learning curve to get all the jockeys on the same page,
00:59:24and fairly so because they've been operating in
00:59:26with different rules across multiple jurisdictions.
00:59:29But now a number of months in, we're seeing a lot of very encouraging signs.
00:59:34First of all, if you watch the Breeders' Cup, I think it was an extraordinary display of
00:59:39why excessive crop use is not necessary and doesn't enhance the sport.
00:59:44Second of all, we see a real plateau in the number of violations across the country.
00:59:52A lot of the, you know, concern or sort of negative feedback,
00:59:55to the extent we had any, was around the fact that if you were over nine strikes,
00:59:59if you got into 10 strikes or more than three strikes above the limit,
01:00:02that you would face personal disqualification.
01:00:05Well, we believed, or at least the Racetrack Safety Committee believed,
01:00:09that if you were going to actually genuinely have an impact on crop use,
01:00:12you'd have to bring in stakeholders who had more at stake than just the jockeys.
01:00:17And those are only 6% of our overall number of crop violations,
01:00:22which I think is quite a low number.
01:00:23And they've really tapered off.
01:00:24I don't think we've had one in quite a while.
01:00:27And, you know, we've also looked, we've only had four months or so of data.
01:00:32Well, the data does show us, you compare the same months in 2021 to the 2022 program,
01:00:38there's no change in overall race times.
01:00:42There's no impact on the wagering public.
01:00:44So I think over time, we'll be able to prove
01:00:47that these sort of balanced crop rules are better for the sport.
01:00:50They don't change the sport.
01:00:53And they don't change for the betting public.
01:00:55So I really feel it's, I mean, there may be things we tweak down the road
01:00:59based on feedback, et cetera.
01:01:01But overall, I think the crop rule has been very successful and is working.
01:01:04Very good.
01:01:05Well, Lisa, thank you so much for joining us today in the TDN Writer's Room.
01:01:08And I agree with Zoe.
01:01:10Thank you for everything you're doing for the industry and good luck moving forward.
01:01:14Well, thank you.
01:01:14And thank you so much for having me today.
01:01:15I really appreciate it.
01:01:16Thanks.
01:01:18The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group,
01:01:21a tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
01:01:26As this week's guest of the week,
01:01:28Lisa Lazarus will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
01:01:32Learn more by going to www.greenco.com.
01:01:36We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
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01:02:16With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round,
01:02:21there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
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01:02:46The TD and Riders Room is brought to you by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Association.
01:02:50This just in, Kentucky Breds won five Breeders' Cup races,
01:02:54highlighted by Flightline's victory in the Classic,
01:02:57and those wins give Kentucky Breds a total of 240.
01:03:01Count them, 240 Breeders' Cup victories,
01:03:04obviously well more than any other state or country.
01:03:08So the win by Flightline in the Breeders' Cup Classic,
01:03:11that's a total no-brainer for an Eclipse Award.
01:03:13As usual out of the Breeders' Cup, there's some,
01:03:15there's no, you know, unanimous winners, Forte, Wonder Wheel, stuff like that.
01:03:19But it's always fun to look at the awards.
01:03:21And I picked a couple divisions that maybe aren't complete slam dunks.
01:03:25It's not like we get any debate here whatsoever.
01:03:28I'm not going to have any problem filling out my ballot this year.
01:03:31First of all, three-year-old male.
01:03:34To me, it's kind of is a slam dunk.
01:03:36I mean, at the center, I know the knock on him is he only won one grade, one race this year.
01:03:40You know, unfortunately, he was hurt in the Breeders' Cup Classic,
01:03:43so we didn't get to see what he could do in there.
01:03:45But he had the most complete year of any three-year-old by far.
01:03:48I mean, he did win the Louisiana Derby as well,
01:03:50and the Jim Dandy, two very, very good races.
01:03:52I actually saw some people on Twitter suggesting that Rich Strike
01:03:56should be the three-year-old champion.
01:03:57I don't see that at all.
01:03:59You know, he's really a one race wonder.
01:04:00I know he's done pretty well in his last couple races.
01:04:03And I tell you, if Cyberknife had won the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile,
01:04:07I would have voted for him for three-year-old champion.
01:04:09And he only lost in a close photo there to Cody's Wish.
01:04:12So, you know, those are the main contenders there.
01:04:14But Randy, Epicenter are going to be on your ballot.
01:04:17Yeah, yeah, I would definitely have Epicenter on my ballot for three-year-old champion.
01:04:22Like, Tabor ran well.
01:04:24I don't think you can hold Epicenter's Breeders' Cup Classic against him.
01:04:27Obviously, I mean, he didn't even make the course.
01:04:30So that's a cross off.
01:04:32The Kentucky Derby is the tiebreaker, in my opinion.
01:04:35And Epicenter finished ahead of Tabor, well ahead of him in the Kentucky Derby.
01:04:39So it's definitely Epicenter for me as champion three-year-old.
01:04:43Epicenter for me, danced every dance.
01:04:45I mean, he really did.
01:04:46He barely missed a beat since breaking his maiden last year.
01:04:50He ran pretty much every month until he didn't run in September and October
01:04:54and has been fantastic.
01:04:56Three grade two wins for him, grade one winner.
01:05:01It's Epicenter for me.
01:05:02And you just mentioned Cody's Wish.
01:05:03I'm going to rewind back to Breeders' Cup.
01:05:05Randy, the story on Cody's Wish was one of the best ones I think I've ever seen.
01:05:12What a performance he put in.
01:05:14It gave me chills.
01:05:16And just, I'm not sure that a lot of people realize the connection
01:05:20between horses and humans is as strong as that.
01:05:24Cody Dorman, what a fantastic story that was.
01:05:27I know you guys were choked up on set.
01:05:32You couldn't write that.
01:05:34There is no way you could even write a Hollywood script like that
01:05:37with Cody's Wish winning.
01:05:39No, I mean, Ahmed Fareed and Jerry Bailey and myself up on the set.
01:05:43I mean, we're all fathers and you can empathize.
01:05:46And I think we're all kind of softies as well.
01:05:50You know, I mean, I'll tear up at a TV commercial sometimes.
01:05:54And so they wanted me to watch that feature ahead of time because they know me
01:06:00and they didn't want to just throw it on me right there sitting on the set.
01:06:04And I watched it and got misty-eyed.
01:06:09And then when we did it for real on the set,
01:06:11I had to take the IFB out of my ear because I didn't want to hear it again.
01:06:15And then lo and behold, the horse wins.
01:06:18And I look over at Ahmed Fareed and he's starting to lose it.
01:06:21And I look over at Jerry Bailey and he's starting to lose it.
01:06:23And I was starting to lose it.
01:06:25And it was just, you know, one of those things that was just a storybook ending.
01:06:31And then you saw just when we got our composure back and we're in,
01:06:34you know, we take a deep breath and have a shot,
01:06:37close-up shot of Cody Dorman with tears streaming down his face.
01:06:42That was so amazing.
01:06:44I mean, unable to speak or have any kind of emotion.
01:06:47The fact that there's so much going in,
01:06:50going on in that head of his that he can't communicate,
01:06:53which he obviously can because he's got his computer and communicates through that.
01:06:58But to see the tears of happiness, it was fantastic.
01:07:02I can't believe I didn't mention that earlier in our Breeders' Cup recap,
01:07:05but I'm glad you brought that up because that was one of the real,
01:07:09the most obviously poignant moment of the two days of the Breeders' Cup.
01:07:13It truly was.
01:07:14Yeah, just a terrific story there.
01:07:16Well done by the entire NBC team.
01:07:18All right, so let's move on to Turf Mail.
01:07:21I'm usually, I don't go for European horses in these categories.
01:07:24I don't like the horses that come in only one time and win a Breeders' Cup race.
01:07:29I don't think that's doing enough on the soil,
01:07:31but Modern Games is a two-race wonder.
01:07:34He wins the Breeders' Cup Mile and also wins the Woodbine Mile
01:07:38at Woodbine, of course, for Charlie Appleby.
01:07:41It was a very undistinguished year among American turf horses.
01:07:45So once again, I'll have no problem,
01:07:47won't even have to think twice about Modern Games, Randy.
01:07:50Couldn't agree more.
01:07:51And I would actually put Rebels Romance second behind Modern Games.
01:07:54Who would be the American champion with Gufo?
01:07:57I mean, who would it be?
01:07:59You know, so I think it's Modern Games to me and that's a gimme to me.
01:08:08I was trying to look through the American turf horses and I'm like,
01:08:12God, who, who, who are you giving this to?
01:08:15The only one I can come up with maybe is Casa Creed.
01:08:18Didn't he win two grade one races this year?
01:08:21Casa Creed ran, well, yes, sprinting.
01:08:24Santin had a couple of good moments, you know.
01:08:29On the West Coast, there were a couple of horses that ran pretty, but I mean.
01:08:33But yeah, it's Modern Games.
01:08:35Now, Worldwide Goddess was the best American mile and a half turf horse.
01:08:38We'll say that, we'll get to her.
01:08:39Okay, all right.
01:08:42So Zoe, you're on board with Modern Games as well?
01:08:44Yep.
01:08:45All right, I can't get any dissension out of the ranks.
01:08:48So now Philly Mayor Turf.
01:08:50Randy, you beat me to the punch.
01:08:51I think we're going to agree on this one as well.
01:08:53Again, this is where Tuesday we'll get some votes based on her win in the Philly
01:08:57and Mayor Turf for Aiden O'Brien.
01:08:59But again, I don't, that's just, unless it really extenuating circumstances,
01:09:04to me as a voter, one race in the United States,
01:09:07no matter how impressive it was, is not enough.
01:09:10And I don't give them credit for anything they did in Europe
01:09:12because it's not a European award.
01:09:14It's a U.S. award.
01:09:15So Warlike Goddess, she won it to me in the Joe Hurst Turf Classic
01:09:19when she beat Mayles and ran so well in there.
01:09:22She ran fine in the Breeders' Cup Philly and Mayor Turf.
01:09:24I picked her.
01:09:25I wish she would have won.
01:09:26But from start to finish, just like we said with Epicenter,
01:09:30I think in her division, she was clearly the best horse throughout the year.
01:09:34And again, to have the one major win against Mayles puts her over Tuesday to me.
01:09:40I'm all for diversity of opinion, but if there's a single voter that votes
01:09:43other than Warlike Goddess for champion Philly or Mayor Turf,
01:09:47they should revoke the voting rights of that individual for future Eclipse awards.
01:09:51Off with their head.
01:09:56Right, so can we maybe get a little bit of debate here on this one?
01:09:59Maybe not.
01:10:00Sprigter is interesting.
01:10:02Jackie's Warrior, you know, had a very good year,
01:10:05even though the way he went out with two losses.
01:10:08But those two losses, to me, kind of disqualified him from Eclipse competition.
01:10:12Not from competition, but maybe want to look elsewhere.
01:10:16People are making a case for Cody's Wish, but he's not a sprinter.
01:10:19He's a miler.
01:10:20I don't include mile races, even one turns as sprint races.
01:10:23To me, they're not sprints.
01:10:24So Elite Power, you know, he wins the Vosburgh.
01:10:28He obviously needed to win the Breeders' Cup sprint to be able to be sprint champion.
01:10:32But, you know, he's a very impressive winner of the Breeders' Cup sprint.
01:10:35You know, not a stellar division either.
01:10:38Normally, I like to see horses have won more than one grade in one race,
01:10:41which is all Elite Power has done.
01:10:43But he gets the nod from me.
01:10:45Well, he had the Vosburgh as well before the Breeders' Cup sprint.
01:10:49So, look, I know you want dissension, Bill.
01:10:51I know you really want me to go Stephen A. Smith or Skip Bayless
01:10:55and at least manufacture dissension, even if I don't truly believe it.
01:10:58You can do it.
01:10:59But in this case, I could see Jackie's Warrior last year, obviously,
01:11:04even though Aloha West beat him and he ran poorly
01:11:08with an excuse in the Breeders' Cup sprint last year at Del Mar.
01:11:12I could totally see Jackie's Warrior being champion sprinter and I voted for him.
01:11:15But I can't do it this year because I agree.
01:11:19I think Elite Power deserves to be at the top of the list.
01:11:22Maybe Zoey's got dissension.
01:11:26None of them, no dissension.
01:11:27You guys are no fun.
01:11:28Bill, you're too good.
01:11:31Okay.
01:11:32And again, I tried to come up with some that were at least a little bit different
01:11:35because, again, I tell you, if anybody votes against Flightline,
01:11:40then yes, they should definitely have their vote restricted.
01:11:44All right.
01:11:44So here's another thing I think we're all going to agree on.
01:11:46How is it that John Sadler is not in the Hall of Fame?
01:11:49Now, I think he will get into the Hall of Fame based on his work
01:11:52with, of course, Flightline, which was so exemplary.
01:11:56But look at these numbers.
01:11:57He's won 2,715 races.
01:12:00He's won 186 graded stakes races, 45 grade ones.
01:12:04He's won the Breeders' Cup Classic twice, the Pacific Classic four times,
01:12:08and the Santa Anita Handicap three times.
01:12:10This should be a slam dunk into the Hall of Fame.
01:12:13And Randy, correct me if I'm wrong.
01:12:15I don't recall him even being on the ballot at any point in time.
01:12:21I can tell you, first of all, it's wrong.
01:12:23And I think he will get in.
01:12:25The only reason I can see is he's not a factor in the Triple Crown races.
01:12:28And that is so much a priority among voters.
01:12:32Bob Baffert obviously well-deserved Hall of Famer,
01:12:35but he's going to get in first ballot because of what he's done in the Triple Crown races.
01:12:39But John Sadler is not a factor in the Triple Crown races.
01:12:41It's just not what he does.
01:12:42But he is a definite Hall of Famer.
01:12:45And if they don't correct this mistake this year, I think that would be an egregious error.
01:12:50Yeah, I think he was going to get in anyway, eventually.
01:12:53And now I think Flightline sort of cements the deal.
01:12:55Yeah, it hurts with some voters that he's not a factor, typically,
01:12:59in the Triple Crown races.
01:13:00That'll probably change at some point.
01:13:02There was that long, winless spell in the Breeders' Cup
01:13:05that people made a big deal about before Accelerate won the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:13:09You know, can John Sadler win outside of California?
01:13:11And that's been obviously, you know,
01:13:15a stake has been driven through the heart of that particular theory.
01:13:20Zoe knows a lot more about him than I do.
01:13:22I cover him from a media perspective, and I've talked to him quite a bit.
01:13:25But Zoe, you're around him on a regular basis.
01:13:28Oh, he'll get in for sure.
01:13:29I think he's just...
01:13:31The attention has been sprung onto John Sadler.
01:13:34Now, before, I'm not even sure anyone was just like,
01:13:36oh, he's just a trainer in California.
01:13:38And he doesn't venture outside of California an awful lot.
01:13:42And his ventures outside of California have...
01:13:45A lot of times he's had horses scratched on the road,
01:13:48purely because they've got sick on the road.
01:13:50I've been to a lot of places over the years where John Sadler's shipped in
01:13:53a favorite for a stake and has never got to the races because he got sick on the way over.
01:13:58So I think now his name is out there and everybody knows John Sadler.
01:14:04So it's just a matter of time.
01:14:06John Sheriffs isn't in the Hall of Fame.
01:14:08And look what he did with Zenyatta.
01:14:11Right?
01:14:12Is he in the Hall of Fame?
01:14:13He's not, right?
01:14:14No, he is not.
01:14:14No, he's not.
01:14:15But he hasn't won 2000 races either.
01:14:18He hasn't even won 1000 races.
01:14:19And he's a very good trainer.
01:14:21So, I mean, a lot of people were rallying for him to be in the Hall of Fame.
01:14:25He's not there, but it's just a matter of time before John Sadler's in the Hall of Fame.
01:14:30Yeah, I think you're right.
01:14:30And honestly, I don't think he really...
01:14:32He's quite happy.
01:14:34It's not going to change his world, I don't think.
01:14:36He'd rather win the Derby than be in the Hall of Fame, I think.
01:14:39I think there are people in the Hall of Fame that have less credentials than John Sadler.
01:14:43So I think...
01:14:46He's only won one Triple Crown race.
01:14:50Right?
01:14:50But I think you're right.
01:14:52Based on the flight line work, I think he will get in as soon as the very next election.
01:14:56And that will be correcting an error that needs to be corrected.
01:15:00The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:15:04The XBTV Workout of the Week is Forbidden Kingdom, the son of American Pharaoh,
01:15:09working very, very nicely here for Hall of Famer Richard Mandela.
01:15:13Now, he's had one start since some throat surgery.
01:15:16That didn't go too well, but he's coming in in the best of form.
01:15:19Seen working here under jockey Jessica Pfeiffer in 58 and Change Forbidden Kingdom,
01:15:25the XBTV Work of the Week.
01:15:28We'll be right back after these messages from XBTV.
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01:16:31The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:16:34Need we say more?
01:16:35Just say flight line.
01:16:36That's all you need to know.
01:16:38And you too could have been part of flight line.
01:16:41Go to westpointtb.com.
01:16:44And that's a wrap on another show.
01:16:46Great show.
01:16:47It's so much fun recapping the Breeders' Cup with you guys.
01:16:49I want to thank my co-host, Randy Moss, Zoe Cabin, our producer, Patty Wolfe, our assistant
01:16:54producer, our associate producer, I should say, Katie Petruniak, our editors, Alia Roraka,
01:16:58Anthony LaRocca.
01:17:00And welcome back to our mascot, Lucy.
01:17:02Yay, Lucy, she's back.
01:17:03Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I want to show you where I am.
01:17:07That's Lucy.
01:17:07Do you want to see where I am?
01:17:08Yeah, that's beautiful.
01:17:10That's Somerset.
01:17:12All the way from Somerset, England.
01:17:14There you go.
01:17:16In Somerset, England.
01:17:18She would like that.
01:17:20Yeah, she'd love it.
01:17:36She'd love it.
01:17:38She'd love it.
01:17:40She'd love it.
01:17:42She'd love it.
01:17:44She'd love it.
01:17:46She'd love it.
01:17:48She'd love it.
01:17:50She'd love it.
01:17:52She'd love it.
01:17:54She'd love it.
01:17:56She'd love it.
01:17:58She'd love it.
01:18:00She'd love it.
01:18:02She'd love it.

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