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00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:31I am a correspondent for the TDN and the co-host of the Down the Stretch radio show on Sirius
00:37XM Radio.
00:38Good to see you again, Bill.
00:39I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports, trusty sidekick Lucy back there.
00:44She's semi-conscious, but ready to roll.
00:47Well, the big news this week wasn't really news in so far as something we weren't expecting,
00:53but they made it official, Randy.
00:55The 2024 Belmont Stakes, and presumably the 2025 as well, will be run at Saratoga.
01:02A couple news and notes out of that, a couple differences.
01:07Race will be run at a mile and a quarter.
01:10The purse will be $2 million, and it's part of a four-day festival, which will start on
01:15Thursday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
01:18There'll be 23 stakes races for a total purses of $9.7 million.
01:24Randy, I'm all for it.
01:26I don't think they had really any other options.
01:28Some people have mentioned, why didn't you run it at Aqueduct?
01:31That absolutely wouldn't have worked if you asked me.
01:34Some people wondering, well, why can't you still run it at a mile and a half, even though
01:38the race, if you did that, would start at the three-eighths pole right on top of the
01:42far turn.
01:43So I think it's going to be fantastic.
01:45Something we're all going to remember, the final leg of the Triple Crown being run in
01:51the Mecca of Thoroughbred Horse Racing.
01:53Well, you can probably guess what I'm going to say about this.
01:57Run it at Saratoga.
01:58I love Saratoga.
01:59That's great.
02:01It's going to be a totally different vibe, the Belmont Park stakes and all the races
02:07surrounding it at Saratoga, but run it at a mile and a half.
02:12Look, when Belmont was last being remodeled in the 1960s, Naira ran the Belmont stakes
02:21for five years at Aqueduct, 1963 through 1967.
02:26Both Aqueduct and Saratoga are a mile and an eighth in circumference.
02:31They started the race on the turn at the three-eighths pole, and it went off for five years
02:36without incident.
02:38Looking at the two racetracks, you can perhaps make the case that Saratoga is a bit different
02:47because even though they're both a mile and an eighth in configuration, Saratoga has a
02:52bit of an odd quality in that the back stretch and the home stretch, the track is 100 feet
02:58wide, and it narrows pretty dramatically around the turns to about 68 to 70 feet wide.
03:05Now, the starting gate that Naira uses is a little less than 60 feet wide, so perhaps
03:11Naira feels that that would be maybe just a little bit too cramped to put the starting
03:15gate out there on the turn.
03:18But look, I find it somewhat hypocritical that the New York Racing Association will
03:27go apoplectic when you talk about moving the date of the Belmont stakes, moving the spacing
03:33of the Belmont because of tradition, and yet the Belmont stakes at a mile and a half distance
03:39is a much longer and, to me, much more important tradition than the actual date of the race
03:46as it pertains to the Derby and the Preakness.
03:49The last 98 years, 97 times the race has been run at a mile and a half.
03:59The only exception in that 98 years was the COVID year of 2020, when, of course,
04:04you know, tis the law, won it at a one-turn mile and an eighth.
04:07Those were extenuating circumstances.
04:09So I have no problem with the Belmont stakes at Saratoga.
04:11I mean, you got to run it somewhere else besides Belmont due to construction.
04:16To me, if you're not going to run it at a mile and a half, run it at Aqueduct like you
04:19did before.
04:20I think they should run it at Saratoga.
04:22That's fine.
04:23Start it on the turn if you can at a mile and a half.
04:26If not, run it at Aqueduct and keep it at a mile and a half.
04:29I think that's important.
04:31Okay, so I want to react a couple points you've made.
04:34I obviously wasn't around to watch the 1964 Belmont stakes at Aqueduct, but if I were,
04:40I probably would have told you back then it was a mistake to run it at a mile and a half.
04:44So why duplicate the mistake later?
04:46I mean, suppose a horse is going for the Triple Crown and he gets post 11 in a 12-horse Belmont
04:52field at Saratoga starting.
04:54It's not like they have a little run up to the turn.
04:57It starts right where that turn begins.
05:00And I know it's a long race.
05:03It would be a mile and a half.
05:04Things will work themselves out.
05:06These riders will figure out a way.
05:08Well, no.
05:10If you're going to go nine wide on that first turn, you're going to have to be on an awful
05:16good horse to make up the difference of going so far wide on that turn.
05:22Now, back to whether or not they should run it at Aqueduct.
05:25There's two problems with that.
05:26Number one, Aqueduct's a dump.
05:29But even more so, Randy, this is not the same Aqueduct of 1967 when they used to get 35,000
05:36people or so on a Saturday.
05:38The casino takes up, I mean, before the casino came, nobody had sat in those seats since
05:451967 and, you know, except for the pigeons who leave behind you know what.
05:50But the casino takes up so much space of the grandstand that even though you think
05:57of Aqueduct as this massive structure, I don't know exactly how many seats it has, but it
06:03would be a very small number.
06:06You know, you're not going to get 100,000 people to come out for a non-Triple Crown
06:10year, all my mistakes, especially at Aqueduct.
06:12But, you know, I think even to accommodate a crowd of maybe 40,000, 45,000, I don't know
06:18if Aqueduct could do that.
06:20It all comes down to the lesser of two evils, right?
06:22Do you start the race at a mile and a half on the turn or do you drop the distance down
06:27to a mile and a quarter?
06:28All you heard was hand-wringing about the prospects of spacing out the Triple Crown
06:32races.
06:32Oh, if there's a Triple Crown, you know, there'll be an asterisk.
06:36It'll cheapen the accomplishment, which is bogus because the Preakness stakes would
06:40actually become a tougher race to win if the races were spaced out.
06:43But what would be more of an asterisk?
06:46A Belmont stakes at a mile and a quarter as opposed to being the test of the champion
06:51at a mile and a half?
06:52You've already proven that the horses can handle a mile and a quarter in the Kentucky
06:55Derby.
06:56You're not proving anything distance-wise by running the Belmont stakes at a mile and
07:00a quarter.
07:00And I know it's temporary while Belmont is being remodeled.
07:04But to me, it just comes down to the lesser of two evils.
07:08And I think the bigger evil in this situation, in my opinion, is running the Belmont stakes
07:14at a mile and a quarter.
07:15Well, you know, I agree with you about the spacing of the Triple Crown races.
07:19And I see the point you're trying to make.
07:21Just for fun, a couple of notes.
07:24This will be the fifth racetrack the Belmont has been run at.
07:27Saratoga, Belmont, Aqueduct, Morris Park, and Jerome Park.
07:31And also, we're talking about distances.
07:32You mentioned it was a mile and eighth during the COVID year.
07:35For a while, it was at a mile and three eighths.
07:37Matter of fact, Sir Barton, the first Triple Crown winner, won a mile and three eighths
07:41Belmont stake.
07:41It's also been run at a mile and a quarter.
07:44Now, Randy, I know you bleed NBC peacock colors and would like nothing more than to be covering
07:52that Belmont at Saratoga.
07:55But when I saw the hotel prices, I think maybe NBC is, OK, Fox, you can have it.
08:01Take a guess.
08:02The Adelphi Hotel.
08:04Granted, this is one of the premier hotels in town.
08:07I went on their website this morning.
08:08They only have one room left.
08:09It's a suite for the four days.
08:11Take a guess at how much it is per night.
08:14A suite.
08:16First of all, if NBC was doing the Belmont Stakes from Saratoga, we'd be staying in
08:20Schenectady, I think.
08:22Not that NBC is cheap, but it's just the room rates are so expensive.
08:25I actually looked into the Adelphi once upon a time on the thought that maybe I would just
08:31pay the difference and stay at Adelphi and get that nice experience.
08:34And during the regular Saratoga meet.
08:37It was something like a thousand dollars a night.
08:39So now you're talking about a suite on Belmont Stakes at Saratoga Day.
08:45Twenty five hundred.
08:47Four thousand twenty six dollars.
08:49Four thousand bucks a night.
08:50Sixteen thousand for the full four years.
08:54The embassy suites more mainstream hotel.
08:58Embassy suites are nice, but they're kind of standard fare.
09:02One thousand four hundred and sixty seven dollars for the four nights.
09:07So if you don't live in the capital area and you're planning to go for the Belmont
09:15Festival, you better pack a lot of money in that wallet because it is not going to be
09:21cheap.
09:21We don't even know yet what Naira is going to charge for the packages, which I'm sure
09:26will be for the the whole four days.
09:28I don't think they're going to let you just pick and choose that sort of thing.
09:31But we have a little different opinions on this.
09:33I think it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun.
09:35I don't think it should be run in a mile and a half, but this is good stuff to talk
09:39about, Randy.
09:40And looking forward to the twenty twenty four and a hundred percent sure 2025 Belmont
09:46being run at Saratoga.
09:48It'll be interesting.
09:49And the bottom line is it'll be a lot of fun to have those races run at Saratoga.
09:55As always, the Deity and Riders room is brought to you by Keeneland, which is catalog
09:59one thousand four hundred and one horses, plus dozens of supplemental entries for the
10:05sixty seventh January horses of all ages sale that will cover four sessions from January
10:128th through 11th.
10:13Twenty twenty four, of course, in the catalog includes broodmares, broodmare prospects,
10:17newly turned yearlings, horses of racing age, stallions and stallion prospects.
10:22Book one will be Monday and Tuesday, the eighth and ninth book to Wednesday and Thursday,
10:27the 10th and 11th.
10:28Each day the session begins at 10 a.m.
10:35At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands, hands that see, that sense, that
10:47speak hands that hold our sport to a higher standard, not for our sake, but for theirs,
10:58for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
11:02The Deity and Riders room also brought to you by the fast sires of Windstar Farm, as
11:07always, the sponsor of our fastest horse of the week segment.
11:10There are fast sires and there were sires who were fast and life is good.
11:16Certainly falls into the latter category among sons of into mischief that are standing
11:21at stud.
11:21Life is good has the most triple digit buyer speed figures.
11:26Nine.
11:27It's got the highest buyer speed figure.
11:29One twelve.
11:30And as a stallion, he bred one hundred and ninety two mares in twenty twenty three.
11:36And life is good has a new fee in twenty twenty four of eighty five thousand dollars.
11:41Life is good.
11:42Not just good.
11:43He's brilliant and he stands at stud at Windstar Farm.
11:47Fastest horse of the week.
11:49No triple digit buyers last week, but we have a really interesting horse at the top of the
11:54list.
11:55His name is Touch Upon a Star.
11:57He's a Louisiana bred that won the Louisiana Champions Day Classic on Saturday at the
12:02fairgrounds.
12:03That's the day for L.A.
12:05Brad's.
12:05It's one hundred and fifty thousand dollar race at a mile and an eighth touch upon a
12:08star owned by former NFL quarterback Jake DeLome's Set Hut Stable, trained by Jake's
12:15older brother, Jeff.
12:17Source is a four year old gelding.
12:19All he's done is win now ten of thirteen lifetime starts, and he scared away all the
12:24competition at the fairgrounds.
12:26Only a four horse field.
12:27The horses won now nine of his last ten races on Saturday.
12:31Got a buyer speed figure of ninety seven earlier this year.
12:35Touch Upon a Star ran three straight races where he had a one oh one one oh one and a
12:40one oh two buyer speed figure.
12:42This horse can really run.
12:43He's a son of Star Guitar, the noted Louisiana stallion that only won twenty four of his
12:49thirty lifetime starts.
12:51Touch Upon a Star this week's fastest horse of the week.
12:56Well, other news made this week, Pat Valenzuela.
13:00Well, I remember him.
13:01Of course we do.
13:02What a great talent he was and also someone who was remembered for many of his off track
13:06problems.
13:07He's sixty one years old now and he's talking about making a comeback.
13:14He says he's been galloping horses at Santa Anita and Delmar is trying to work his way
13:19back into shape.
13:20What happened when he last rode in 2016 was he tore his ACL and that is what kept him
13:27out until he said he got a knee replacement surgery.
13:30So he hasn't been absent from riding for reasons belonging to substance, belonging to
13:36substance abuse problems, whatnot.
13:38He's very serious about this, Randy.
13:40I guess there's a lot of questions to be answered.
13:45He's very serious about this, Randy.
13:47I guess there's a lot of questions to be answered here, one of which he admits is probably
13:53the biggest obstacle.
13:54He weighs one hundred and twenty eight pounds and admits that at age sixty one, it's a lot
13:59harder to take off weight than if you were twenty one.
14:02So can he get down to riding weight?
14:05It's one of the questions he's got to answer, but he thinks he can do it.
14:08He's going to try.
14:10Randy, can he make it back?
14:12I don't know what the biggest challenge is.
14:14The fact that he weighs one hundred twenty eight pounds or the fact that he's a sixty
14:17one year old coming off a blown ACL.
14:20When he last rode in 2016, P-Val was not riding at the at the A-level racetracks.
14:25You know, he was he was trying to knock out a living at some of the smaller racetracks
14:29around the country.
14:31He's obviously been a very, very talented rider.
14:35The first thing that anyone would think right now when they're looking at this from a
14:39distance, P-Val wants to come back and ride again at age sixty one, is that and I don't
14:44know this for a fact because I don't know P-Val very well, that he needs the money.
14:50Obviously, if he can win races as a jockey, he can make more money than he would make
14:56exercising horses or whatever else he would want to do within the horse racing industry.
15:00And a lot of these guys really don't know anything else but to ride horses.
15:04Right.
15:05If he can make it back, if he can get his weight down, if he can ride at, you know,
15:10let's say Evangeline Downs or Louisiana Downs or someplace like that in Louisiana and and
15:17still be able to win a few races and pay some bills and all that and more power to P-Val.
15:24But it's going to be very fascinating to watch.
15:28And obviously, the odds are stacked against him.
15:31He's been in California kind of hanging around the racetrack.
15:35Zoe Cadman told us that, you know, he's been regularly seen, you know, trying to drum up
15:41some some business as an exercise rider, breezing horses, galloping horses, etc.
15:48This is this is unprecedented, really, for a jockey of his stature,
15:54his accomplishments to try to come back at this age.
15:57But, you know, as we said, the odds are really against him, more power to him.
16:02Yeah, we'll see what happens.
16:03And when he last rode in 2016, it was seven years ago when he was OK.
16:09So seven years ago, he would have been 54.
16:12He only won 17 races with an 8% winning rate.
16:16So that, you know, he's obviously not going to come back to San Anita,
16:20Del Mar and be riding in the grade ones on a Saturday.
16:23He doesn't expect that.
16:24Another thing, when I wrote the story, I got a text the next day from a jockey who
16:32was someone who rode during his era.
16:36And he was upset with me for, I think, more so from some things I said on the radio show
16:41rather than what I wrote, kind of cheerleading a little bit for Pat Valenzuela.
16:46And I'm not going to tell you who sent me this, but he said,
16:48here is a guy who was blessed with great natural ability
16:51and has consistently taken it for granted and squandered it.
16:54There are hundreds of riders that have dedicated themselves
16:57to the craft of race riding that have worked harder with less natural ability
17:02and were never given the opportunities that he has so cavalierly thrown away.
17:07I don't disagree with that.
17:09But Randy, that's no reason not to allow the guy to come back.
17:12I mean, if the stewards and whatever doctors he's got to pass through
17:16say that he's fit to ride, if that's what he wants to do,
17:21who is he harming by coming back?
17:24Absolutely nobody.
17:25And like you said, you know, look, if he rides three a week at Louisiana Downs
17:30and wins 12, 15 races a year, that's probably what we're going to come to expect.
17:35But I know this might be his, not his second chance, his third chance.
17:40This might be his 34th chance.
17:42But, you know, I don't see why anyone would hold his past
17:46against him when it comes down to this and just something he wants to do.
17:50Oh, yeah.
17:51All the things that you just attributed to the unnamed jockey who got in touch with you,
17:56I don't think anyone would argue with.
17:58Right.
17:59But I mean, the only reason we're talking about this is because it's a news story.
18:04It is news when a jockey of his background and a jockey of his past success,
18:11for whatever reasons, decides to try to come back at age 61.
18:16I mean, we're not celebrating Pat Valenzuela when we talk about this.
18:20We're just pointing out what the news is and that it is a very unusual and,
18:27you know, semi interesting story to try to follow as he makes his comeback.
18:32If he actually makes it that far.
18:33Yeah.
18:34Let's see if he can.
18:35By the way, I want to remind you that the TDN Writers Room is brought to you
18:38by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
18:41The 2024 Stallion and Boarding Farm Directory is now available on our website, pabred.com.
18:46Take a look at the five new stallions standing in Pennsylvania for 2020-2024.
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18:5930 stakes just for PA breds, and 200 restricted races.
19:04Last leg of the $1 million two-year-old PA sired, PA bred stallion series
19:09is set for December 27th with two $200 races at a mile and 70 yards.
19:14We'll be right back after this message from the PHBA.
19:17And Linda Rice will join us on the Green Group Guest of the Week segment.
19:21Stay with us.
19:25PA bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
19:29The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
19:35Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
19:39Caravelle in the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint.
19:42Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state-bred program in the country, bar none.
19:47The best breeders awards and stallion awards in the country.
19:51The best two-year-old by legendary sire, Quality Road.
19:54Hit it back, $1.5 million.
19:56Very, very impressive debut. Cantering Home could not have been more impressive.
20:02Coast-to-coast to the American Pharoah. He's the real deal.
20:05Undefeated and unchallenged at two.
20:08He's just too good! He wins the Breeders' Cup Jubilee! Cornish!
20:15Cornish.
20:22And now a TDN Writer's Room welcome to our newest sponsor, the Coolmore Stallion of the Week.
20:28And the first Coolmore Stallion of the Week is Cornish, who was an undefeated two-year-old in 2021.
20:35And the two-year-old champion, of course, the winner of the Breeders' Cup Juvenile,
20:39the American Pharoah, and also his maiden win three-for-three as a two-year-old.
20:43Obviously, he was precocious. Cornish, a son of Quality Road, out of the mirror, wasted tears.
20:49He never even got a chance to run on the turf.
20:51He might have been quite a turf horse as well because wasted tears won sixth-graded stakes
20:56all on the grass. So maybe Cornish will be a switch hitter as a stallion.
21:02What does Tom Ryan of SF Bloodstock, former owner of Cornish, think of him?
21:06Here's a quote from Ryan.
21:08Standing for less than $100,000, Cornish is the best physical first-season stud I've seen.
21:14He profiles well to get off the mark with early two-year-olds.
21:18Cornish stands at Coolmore USA for a fee of only $25,000.
21:24The TD and Writer's Room brought to you by The Green Group, a tax consulting and advisory firm
21:30specializing in the thoroughbred industry and specializing in saving you money on your taxes.
21:37And we welcome in now The Green Group guests of the week.
21:40Always lots of things to talk about with Linda Rice, who's our guest,
21:43but particularly so this year as she's in the midst of a career year for her stable.
21:49Matter of fact, we're recording this on a Wednesday.
21:53She has 157 wins on the year at the Naira Circuit.
21:58She's tracking David Jacobson for the all-time record.
22:01Jacobson had 164 wins in 2013.
22:05Linda, welcome.
22:06And are you going to be able to catch that David Jacobson for the record?
22:09Is that something that you're looking forward to or something that you're really pointing for?
22:14Well, I really hadn't thought about it much,
22:17but a few of my friends have been prompting me lately that I need to
22:22become a little more aggressive with my entries for the next couple of weeks.
22:27And right now, I think we really only have about eight days of racing left.
22:32And I think I need about eight wins to get there.
22:36And they've been coming kind of slow and hard the last couple of weeks.
22:40So I don't know.
22:41And I told them, I said, look, no matter what, it's been a great year.
22:45And they pooh-poohed that idea.
22:47They said, oh, no, oh, no.
22:48You need to dig down, dig deep, get this done.
22:53Well, it kind of looked improbable for you toward the end of the Saratoga meet as well,
22:57but you were able to close in 21 and change and get that one done.
23:01Yeah, that was amazing.
23:03I mean, we were five down with two days left.
23:05So it was amazing and improbable.
23:10So you've been successful for a long time,
23:13probably never more so than just in the last four or five years.
23:16This year in particular, I don't know how you feel
23:19about being called the best female trainer in the country
23:22when you're one of the best trainers, period, in the country.
23:26What's been the most personally gratifying to you about your success as a trainer?
23:33Sometimes when you take young horses and they turn into great horses, that's very gratifying.
23:38But I suppose this year having won meet after meet after meet in New York has been very gratifying.
23:47And it does sting just a little to be the best female trainer.
23:52So maybe that takes a little bit of the sting out of that
23:57by being able to win consistently in New York.
24:01Because, of course, this is not a game of fillies and colts
24:06you know, as far as the entry.
24:08So I suppose this year having won five training titles in a row
24:12maybe takes the sting out of being known as a top female trainer.
24:18So you say the sting, do you think it sort of diminishes
24:21your overall accomplishments when someone labels you like that?
24:24On occasion, it's supposed to be flattering.
24:26So I try to take it that way.
24:28But, you know, there's an undertone to it.
24:32Good point.
24:33Well, Linda, as was just mentioned, you won either one outright
24:38or tied for five straight training titles.
24:41The streak ended at the Belmont at Aqueduct meet
24:44when Chad Brown beat you out for that one.
24:46And as Manny mentioned, you've been among the most consistent trainers
24:51on the New York circuit for a long time.
24:54I mean, year after year, you're hitting the winner's circle with regularities.
24:58But this year in particular is definitely going to go down as best in history.
25:04For instance, last year, your stable earnings were 5.7 million.
25:08You've already gone over the 10 million mark this year.
25:11And we mentioned the 157 winners on the year at Naira.
25:15Well, it shows how little you run out of town.
25:17You have 159 winners altogether.
25:20And that too could break your personal record for most wins in a year.
25:26What has gone right this year?
25:27You know, what has made Linda Rice 2023 even better than Linda Rice 2022, 2021, et cetera?
25:35Well, you know, I think, you know, I try to look at my history of my career,
25:40you know, I'll take a look at the stats and say, well,
25:42what did we do differently here that changed, that improved our stats?
25:47So, you know, I try to look at the end of the year stats and say, all right.
25:51So we started getting in the 5 million regularly in about 2013.
25:59And so then I think we kicked it up to about 7 million in 2017.
26:04We had a great year that year.
26:06I think 166 wins.
26:08I did win quite a few races in Maryland.
26:10I was shipping to Maryland a lot that year
26:12with what I felt were horses that couldn't compete in New York.
26:16So that was a great year.
26:17You know, and then we have COVID and we have, you know, so there's always dips.
26:20But I would say some of the things that really moved me forward in my business
26:25were staying in New York year round, consolidating to New York.
26:30So I used to split my stable in the winter,
26:34send a division to Miami, keep the main division here in New York.
26:39And I found out over the years that it was expensive.
26:43I spent all winter trying to recover my expenses
26:46and I didn't feel like it moved us forward in any way, you know, in any way at all.
26:51So when the VLT money kicked in in New York to the purses,
26:55which was about 2013, I abandoned ship on Miami.
26:59I said, look, we're going to try something different.
27:01We're going to stay in New York.
27:03I'm going to consolidate my workforce.
27:06Frankly, we had a lot of work right here in New York in the winter.
27:09It's a tough job in the winter.
27:11And I needed all my best people right in front of me.
27:14So I think that is the one thing that I see on my career that was very helpful
27:20was to consolidate.
27:22And consolidating in New York when VLT money showed up was kind of a key move.
27:30So that was one of the things.
27:31And I also think then going forward from there,
27:36I used to buy a lot of young horses, yearlings, two-year-olds in training,
27:40shopped all of the auctions, which I love.
27:43I love to shop whaling sales and yearling sales and two-year-old sales.
27:48But it became very frustrating to me.
27:51We would go to the auctions.
27:52We'd spend a lot of money and expenses between vetting and hotels and everything involved.
27:58And a lot of time invested.
28:01And I felt frustrated when we came home.
28:03And we weren't getting the horses bought that we wanted.
28:06We were buying horses that really weren't on the list of horses to take home.
28:13Or you go home with nothing.
28:14And so I changed it up.
28:17And I said, well, let's try something different.
28:20And that's when I started claiming more horses.
28:22I did find that my long history of young horses with my father before me
28:29was very helpful in the claiming game.
28:31And a lot of time spent confirmation, pedigree, that type of thing.
28:36And it helped me a lot in the claiming game.
28:38So I changed it up then.
28:40Once again, probably 2015, I may have started claiming more.
28:45And so that's been the next bump to help my career.
28:52And Linda, what you just described, the way you've put your operation and the direction
28:58you've taken it, the good news is that everything we've been talking about,
29:03all the races you've been winning, all the New York training titles.
29:07But if you don't go spend a lot of money at the yearling and two-year-old sales,
29:11you're probably not going to be somebody that's going to have a Breeders' Cup
29:14and Kentucky Derby-like horses.
29:17Is that something that you think about?
29:19And is that the price to pay for figuring out a formula that obviously is working for you?
29:26Yeah, absolutely.
29:27But if you go to the sales without the pocketbook to buy those horses, it's a moot point.
29:34So for me, winning is fun.
29:38Losing is not.
29:39And if we can win races, and some of the horses that I have claimed have won stakes races
29:47this year, and that's fun, that's successful.
29:51And at the price point that my clients are getting in, they're really enjoying themselves.
29:58Does it limit you with the idea that,
30:00geez, how am I going to get a derby horse?
30:02How am I going to get a Breeders' Cup horse?
30:05Absolutely.
30:06But I feel like if you prove yourself and you win enough races, and that eventually,
30:12hopefully, people will see that you're certainly capable and will send you those horses.
30:18Would imagine that people noticed and it had to give you a lot of satisfaction to claim
30:24Joey Freshwater and then win the Bayshore with him, claim
30:27Pioneering Spirit for $40,000 and make $450,000 with him the same year.
30:33But about the owners, going back to your decision to base in New York year-round and not go to
30:39Gulfstream Park, did you get any pushback from your owners and some of your owners about that
30:45decision, or did the bottom line smooth over everything in the end?
30:51Initially, when I was sending horses to Miami, I had a few owners that
30:54like to go to Gulfstream for the winter.
30:56They like to take a couple of horses down there, and that's part of the reason that we went.
31:00But after watching it for years, we'd send horses down there.
31:06They didn't get in.
31:07They couldn't compete.
31:10By the time we came back from Miami, they were tired and needed a break,
31:13and it just wasn't moving us forward.
31:16I decided, I said, well, I'm certainly going to have some clients who want to send some
31:20horses to Miami, and they can send them with one of their other trainers.
31:24And I also found that people were pretty interested and liked the idea.
31:30They wanted to raise horses in New York in the winter.
31:33They thought the purses were good.
31:34The fields were a little shorter, and they were happy to know that I was going to be
31:39right here, right in the midst of it, at the barn every day.
31:43So it's twofold.
31:45I lost a little, but I felt that I gained more.
31:48So, Linda, after Randy asked you some questions, and you made it clear that in a perfect world,
31:54you'd just be considered a good trainer, not a good female trainer.
31:58I'm going to go back to that subject.
31:59Excuse me, because there is a...
32:01It's a delicate subject, Bill.
32:02It's a delicate subject.
32:04Be careful, Bill.
32:05But no, because I want to hear...
32:06I'm sure you'll have a good answer for what I'm about to ask you.
32:10Jenna Antonucci, the year she had, the way she represented the sport, and yes, it's
32:18was, if she were John Antonucci and not Jen Antonucci, the story would have played out
32:23much differently.
32:26Were you there rooting for her, pulling for her?
32:28What did you think about...
32:30She sort of became a phenomenon for a while.
32:33What was your take on all that?
32:35Oh, I was thrilled to death for her.
32:36You know, Jenna's been around the game a long time, and whether it be Jenna, it didn't have
32:44to be a woman, anyone.
32:45The Rich Strike story, any of these stories where people get a modestly purchased horse
32:52for $35,000 yearly, like he was, and go on to win those kind of races, and she did a
33:00wonderful job with him.
33:02It was fun to watch, to see the emotion that she had about it.
33:06So to me, it was a fabulous story.
33:07But it wouldn't have mattered if it was Jenna, a female, or John, just to see people get
33:12that opportunity to go to that level.
33:15You know, as you said, there's quite a few owners in the game that go to the yearling
33:20sale with $25,000, $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, and buy yearlings.
33:26And they usually go to about five different barns.
33:30So for me, it's just a joy to see somebody else get to win those big races.
33:38Let's talk about another modestly priced horse.
33:43For a long, long time, when I saw the name Linda Rice, the first horse that came to mind
33:48to me was City Zip, who was originally a $9,000 purchase.
33:56And you ran through all of those two-year-old races in Saratoga and in the Futurity.
34:01And then he came back and won four more stakes races as a three-year-old.
34:05What was it like to train City Zip and then to subsequently see his success as a stallion?
34:12Yeah, he was magnificent.
34:15I kind of fell into that by, you know, I had tried to buy a horse from Carl Bowling the
34:21year before at the two-year-old sale.
34:24And I had a pretty good budget, and I got outbid at about, the horse brought $400,000.
34:29I lost the horse.
34:30I think John Kimball outbid me.
34:32And Carl was very thankful.
34:34And he said, listen, the next horse that you like that I don't sell, I'm going to send
34:39him to you to train.
34:40And that's how I got City Zip.
34:42The very next year, I liked City Zip.
34:45I wanted to buy him.
34:46He failed the vet miserably.
34:48He had all kinds of little issues, nothing that really stood in his way.
34:53And so he wasn't able to sell the horse.
34:55So he ended up starting in Kentucky, but he honored his word.
34:58He sent the horse to me to Belmont, and the horse went on and did great things, and did
35:03great things as a three-year-old.
35:05But he was just a terrific stallion.
35:08I was just so impressed with how well he did as a stud.
35:12Yeah, going back and looking at his record, I mean, I thought I kept up with all these
35:17things.
35:17I guess I had forgotten that he's a half-brother to Ghost Zapper, who came around a couple
35:22of years later.
35:23But here's a horse now in City Zip.
35:25There was, I think, like six triple-digit buyer speed figures.
35:29He won once at a mile or more.
35:32He won the Futurity Stakes, one-turn mile in New York.
35:35You tried him on grass a couple times at the end of his career.
35:38Did his phenomenal success as a stallion, and especially as a grass stallion, surprise
35:44you at all?
35:46You know, I guess it shouldn't have.
35:51You know, he was a little small and had a lot of imperfections.
35:56But despite all the fact that he was toed out and back in the knee, he had a lot of
36:02imperfections.
36:04So I don't think anyone thought he was going to be a star as a stallion that he became.
36:08But he had a fantastic mind.
36:12Angel Cordero had said to me, I think Jose Santos wrote him for us all the time.
36:16And Angel said, you know, I've never seen a horse that could stop and start so many
36:21times in a race.
36:22He could break from the gates if there was a strong speed horse in there.
36:27He would make them chase him.
36:28And then you could take a hold of him.
36:30Now that horse is already engaged, can't stop his run.
36:33He could take back, come again.
36:35He could just, he was amazing.
36:37And so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that he passed that along.
36:41Linda, with all your wins this year, perhaps your biggest win didn't occur on the racetrack,
36:46but occurred in the courtroom.
36:47And to make a long story short, the New York Gaming Commission accused you of getting
36:53favorable treatment from the racing office to have a better idea of who was running in
36:58races and whatnot.
36:59And they attempted to take away your license for three years.
37:04The courts came in and called their decision shockingly unfair.
37:12Very, very strong language there.
37:14When that happened, the proposed three-year ban was lifted.
37:18A two-part question, what was it like having that hang over your shoulders?
37:22And what kind of relief was it when the court sided with you?
37:27Well, it has been a very trying, long process to finally get there.
37:33And I've told my family, or they've told me that the fact that I've been able to
37:42maintain the level that I have professionally under that type of pressure is quite amazing.
37:50But it's been a huge relief to have it finally behind me.
37:54It was very stressful, very hard on myself, my family to watch me go through that.
38:01But we were very pleased with the appellate decision and glad to have it over.
38:07Let's talk about some of the horses in your barn right now going forward.
38:10I want to ask you about a couple in particular.
38:13I was pretty impressed with that New York-bred two-year-old El Grande O that you've got.
38:18I mean, he had that off-race in the Champagne.
38:20But I mean, when you look back on the Champagne, fierceness was behind him at the finish.
38:25And look what turned out there.
38:27What's in the future for El Grande O?
38:30And could we see him back against Open Company maybe in one of the Triple Crown prep races?
38:37Yeah, we could.
38:38I mean, the Jerome is a possibility.
38:42He's raced quite a bit as a two-year-old, which is more than most two-year-olds.
38:47We had started him...
38:48Actually, he arrived in my barn in March last spring.
38:50We started a little earlier this year.
38:52And he's raced three times at Belmont, twice at Saratoga.
38:56I think three times here at Belmont when we came back to Aqueduct.
39:00So we gave him a break after that win and sent him to Barry Schwartz's farm,
39:05Stonewall Farm, which is about an hour north of here.
39:07So he got a little turnout time, a little freshening.
39:10Just came back, got his first breeze.
39:12You know, we just didn't want to keep his campaign going without freshening.
39:17We'll probably look at the Jerome.
39:19Whether we run him the Jerome, the Wingfield, or the New York-bred stake, the Regos Park.
39:24You know, that's up in the air.
39:25I think Barry and I would like to point towards the Jerome,
39:28but we're just going to have to kind of see where he is, you know, when we get there.
39:32And what's next for the Garland to Rose's winter hot fudge?
39:35And what's the update on Pioneering Spirit?
39:38I see he hasn't breezed since the Artie Schiller.
39:40What's the story?
39:42Pioneer Spirit is rolling around in the sand in Ocala in a paddock and having a good time.
39:48He's getting a well-deserved break.
39:50So as you know, I don't send horses to Miami.
39:54And I felt the horse did a pretty good campaign.
39:57I sent him down there to get some sunshine, refreshing, give him 90 days.
40:01You'll see him here in New York in the spring.
40:04And hot fudge?
40:06Hot fudge will point her towards the interborough.
40:09Well, Linda, whether you break or tie David Jacobson's record for most wins
40:13on the year in the New York circuit or not, it's been a fantastic year for your stable.
40:19Congratulations on all your success.
40:22Thanks for joining us on the TDN Writers Room podcast.
40:25And have a Merry Christmas and a winning 2024.
40:28Thank you so much, Bill.
40:29Randy.
40:30Thanks, Linda.
40:32As this week's Green Group guest of the week,
40:34Linda Rice will receive a free one-hour tax consultation from Lynn Green and company
40:39at the Green Group.
40:40For more information on how the Green Group might be able to help you
40:44and your bottom line during tax season, you can go to www.greenco.com.
40:50Are you paying too much in taxes?
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40:55There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen
40:58select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
41:01They save you money and share successful strategies.
41:05Over the past 40 years, the Green Group founder, Lynn Green,
41:08has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport.
41:13Like Eclipse Award-winning champions, Jay Walk and Wonder Wheel.
41:16His DJ stable competes at the highest level
41:19and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
41:22Lynn Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge,
41:25combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies,
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41:34in the thoroughbred business.
41:36For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
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41:43or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
41:47The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
41:52Well, it's a quiet time of the year, as it usually is before Christmas,
41:55and Southern California Racing has moved to Los Alamitos.
41:59Gulfstream Park Championship meet is upon us,
42:01but they don't really run out the big races for a couple of weeks now.
42:06But, you know, Bob Baffert, the story of Bob Baffert at Los Alamitos,
42:10I think, doesn't quite get the recognition it deserves.
42:14Last Saturday, he won the Starlet Stakes with nothing like you.
42:18Ten straight wins, excuse me, ten times overall,
42:22seven straight wins with nothing like you.
42:25On Friday coming up, he'll have two in the Bayakoa Stakes,
42:29Midnight Memories and Ganadora.
42:30Gracie's won only four times.
42:33But the other one that is amazing, Randy, is Los Alamitos Futurity.
42:37He's won it 13 times, though he hasn't won it since 2020.
42:43A Practical Move actually won the race last year,
42:47about the only race for two or three-year-olds
42:49on the calendar in California that Bob didn't win.
42:53A couple of things, not only, I mean, does he have all these good horses to run,
42:56but I've always gathered that he has a soft spot for Los Alamitos
43:00because of his quarter horse days there.
43:02And that's where he really learned the trade.
43:05And he supports that meet more so than any top trainer in California.
43:10And I wish more people would support it because Los Alamitos really stepped up
43:13when Hollywood Park went out of business.
43:15And they had to put a ton of money into the racetrack
43:18to make it suitable for thoroughbred racing.
43:20And I know they don't have a turf course,
43:22but you just don't see the participation from the stables there
43:25that I think we'd really like to see.
43:28But first of all, what do we know about the Los Alamitos Futurity Saturday?
43:33What has Baffert gotten?
43:34Who else is lining up for it?
43:36Well, Bob obviously has a lot of horses to choose from.
43:39I mean, he's broken the maidens of 16 individual two-year-olds this year
43:44at either Santa Anita or Del Mar or Los Alamitos.
43:47And if past history is any indication, he has horses in the barn
43:51that he hasn't even run yet that are as good
43:54or maybe better as some of the ones we've already seen.
43:57The logical candidates would seem to be Nysos,
44:02who won the Bob Hope so impressively in his maiden win before that,
44:05and Muth, who was second in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile,
44:08won the American Pharoah.
44:09He's got Prince of Monaco.
44:10He's got Miramonte.
44:11But I reached out to Bob by text a couple of days ago.
44:15And as of then, the horses that he was looking at
44:18for the Los Alamitos Futurity, three of them.
44:21There's Wind Me Up, who was second behind Muth
44:25in the American Pharoah at Santa Anita
44:27and then completely laid an egg in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile,
44:30but has trained pretty good since then.
44:32A horse called Coach Prime, a son of Quality Road,
44:36who broke his maiden at Del Mar going a mile in his second lifetime start.
44:41And then a New York bred by the name of Winstock,
44:45who started off a couple of times in sprints,
44:48looking very un-Baffert-like for a two-year-old.
44:51No speed, dull performances.
44:54But then when they stretched him out to a mile at Santa Anita,
44:58he broke his maiden pretty impressively.
45:00So those are the three that Bob is looking at.
45:02The only other horse I could find on anyone's list
45:06that would be listed right now as a possible starter
45:09would be a horse named Stronghold,
45:11who was second to Nysos, a distant second,
45:14in the Bob Hope in his last race.
45:16Stronghold comes from the barn of trainer Phil D'Amato.
45:19Of Baffert's three, I think the most interesting
45:23is probably Coach Prime,
45:27because his maiden win at Del Mar going a mile was very impressive.
45:32If you look at the past performances of that race,
45:34one thing you'll note that jumps off the page
45:36is the pace of that one-mile race at Del Mar.
45:40It's listed as 21-2 for the quarter,
45:4344-2 for the half,
45:46then slowing down to like 111-2 for six furlongs.
45:51When you're handicapping the race, though,
45:53you got to keep in mind,
45:54and I haven't talked about this a lot lately
45:56because I talked about it so much before that,
45:59the fractional times at Del Mar are garbage
46:05because they're timed by GPS, right?
46:08Final times now are okay,
46:10but at tracks like Del Mar and now Keeneland,
46:13amazingly, the fractional times are still timed on GPS.
46:17The true fractional times for that one-mile maiden race
46:21are 21-4 for the quarter, two-fifths slower than posted,
46:2645-flat for the half, two-fifths slower than posted,
46:30and actually 111-flat for six furlongs,
46:33which is two-and-a-half-fifths faster than what's posted.
46:37So it goes in both directions.
46:39Any way you slice it, though,
46:40it was a fast-paced maiden race.
46:44This horse, Coach Prime,
46:45set about three or four lengths off the pace
46:47and then made a devastating move turning for home
46:49and opened up and won very impressively by seven-plus lengths.
46:52So he might wind up being the favorite
46:55in the Los Alamitos future.
46:56Bob's got three that he's looking at
46:59to try to get his 14th, amazingly,
47:01his 14th win in that race.
47:04Randy, any speculation on what Nysos will do next?
47:08I don't know.
47:09No, I didn't ask Bob,
47:10and he's kept it pretty close to the vest,
47:13as Bob does.
47:13You know, Bob goes a lot by feel,
47:16by the way the horses are training,
47:17by the cues that the horses give him visually
47:22in their most recent workouts,
47:23and he'll wait until the last minute
47:26to decide whether to run a horse in a stick,
47:28heck, whether to put a horse on a plane
47:29and ship him to Arkansas to run in some of those races,
47:32which he always supports as well at Oklahoma Park.
47:34So, you know, he was,
47:37no, I haven't seen anything
47:38that could remotely be set in stone
47:43as to what Nysos might be doing next.
47:44But he certainly has looked good, hasn't he?
47:46Yeah, he certainly has.
47:48Speaking of Coach Prime,
47:49the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV,
47:52and the XBTV Workout of the Week is Coach Prime,
47:55named, of course, for Deion Sanders,
47:58now the head football coach at the University of Colorado.
48:00And he worked, not Deion the human,
48:03Coach Prime, the horse,
48:05worked five furlongs at Santa Anita Saturday
48:07for trainer Bob Baffert in 101.60.
48:10It was his second work
48:11since his TDN Rising Star worthy performance
48:13at Santa Anita, November 10th,
48:15when he won by seven and a quarter lengths.
48:17Coach Prime was a $1.7 million
48:19Keeneland September yearling purchase
48:20by Donato Lano for owner Amir Zidane.
48:23According to trainer Bob Baffert,
48:24as we know now because Randy just told us,
48:26Coach Prime is targeting the Los Alamitos maturity
48:29on December 16th at a mile and a 16th.
48:31We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
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49:37by West Point Thoroughbreds.
49:39Joining a West Point partnership can vault you
49:42into the world of instant camaraderie
49:44and can give you quite a bit of fun
49:46in the winner's circle as well.
49:47West Point had sort of a viewing recently,
49:51a record turnout for its yearling showcase,
49:54which was at Iceman Equine
49:56and Eddie Woods Training Center in Ocala.
49:58The West Point partners got a chance to come out
50:00and check out the likes of their yearlings,
50:03including the Into Mischief Nona Mia Cold,
50:07the half to win Memorial winner Outwork,
50:10who they purchased at the Keeneland September Sale
50:12for $3 million.
50:14Another partner visit for West Point
50:17is scheduled for late April,
50:19right before many of those horses will ship
50:21to their respective trainers around the country
50:23and begin their next lessons
50:26at the racetracks themselves.
50:37Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
50:39I want to thank my partner, Randy Moss,
50:41our Green Group Guest of the Week, Linda Rice,
50:43our producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca,
50:46our editors, Aaliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson,
50:49and our mascot, Lucy,
50:50right over Randy's right shoulder there.
50:53Hi, Lucy.
50:54Is that a dog?
50:56There you go.
50:59Well, that's a wrap, not just for this week,
51:02but for 2023.
51:03We're going to take our annual two-week hiatus
51:06around the Christmas holidays,
51:07and we'll be back the first week in January
51:09here with the TDN Writer's Room.
51:11Thanks for tuning us in.
51:12We'll see you in 2024.
51:14Merry Christmas, everyone.
51:16Merry Christmas.
51:23you