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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And good afternoon.
00:00:29It's another edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Podcast.
00:00:32I'm your host, Bill Finlay.
00:00:33I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:35Zoe Kavan here with First Racing and XBTV.
00:00:39And Doodle right here giving Lucy a run for her money today.
00:00:44Lucy better watch out.
00:00:45She's she's he doesn't have all four legs in the air yet, but we're waiting for that.
00:00:50Lucy is unconcerned.
00:00:51Yes.
00:00:52And I'll see if I can find Penny somewhere we can put on the trio of our three mascots.
00:00:58Well, welcome to the show.
00:00:59I want to remind you that this week it is brought to you and each and every week by
00:01:02our good friends at Keeneland.
00:01:03Right now, they're in the middle of the January sale, by all reports going very, very well
00:01:07down there.
00:01:08Okay, gang, the big story on the racetrack last weekend.
00:01:11Have you ever heard this before?
00:01:14Trust me, maybe you haven't.
00:01:15I don't know if it's a blockbusters.
00:01:18Hold on, everybody.
00:01:19There was a three year old race and Bob Effert dominated it.
00:01:23We've seen that before now, haven't we?
00:01:26Again, I'm being facetious and tongue in cheek a little bit, but they ran the sham
00:01:29stakes at Santa Anita on Saturday, and this is how good and how deep his barn is.
00:01:35He didn't run his first string.
00:01:36He didn't run a second string.
00:01:37I think he ran his third string in this race, and he finishes one, two, three.
00:01:42He entered four horses, but Speedboat Beach was scratched finishes first with reincarnate
00:01:46second with Newgate and third with National Treasure.
00:01:49And you know, we're used to Baffert at this point in time, having a lot of good three
00:01:54year olds.
00:01:55I'm not sure from a quantity standpoint, quality will hold off.
00:01:58We'll just see, because it's a little bit early to tell.
00:02:00But from a quantity standpoint, I don't know if we've ever seen him have anything like
00:02:04this.
00:02:05For instance, here's a couple of numbers for you.
00:02:06On the winter book at Caesars, eight of the top 20 horses and the odds for the Kentucky
00:02:11Derby right now are trained by Baffert.
00:02:13In TD Thornton's top 13 that he does already out for the Thoroughbred Daily News, three
00:02:18of the top seven, all trained by Baffert.
00:02:22And none of those three horses ran in the sham stakes, getting back to my point that
00:02:26it was not even his first string.
00:02:29But Randy Moss, we've seen it before, but you know, Bob Baffert, and we'll have to get
00:02:32into at some point in time, what's going to happen.
00:02:35Are these horses going to wind up in the Tim Yak teen barn because of the ban Churchill
00:02:38Nouns has against Baffert that extends through this year's Kentucky Derby.
00:02:41But I got to tell you, Randy, right now, I mean, Bob Baffert seems to be holding all
00:02:45the cards, at least in the West Coast.
00:02:47Oh yeah.
00:02:48Okay, back in the barn, watching all this for Cave Rock, who of course was the beaten
00:02:52favorite in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, finishing a good second to Forte, a couple of horses
00:02:57that just broke their maidens very impressively, Arabian Knight back on the Breeders' Cup day
00:03:02undercard at Keeneland, extremely impressive, Fouston, a son of Kirtland, broke his maiden
00:03:08in late December at Santa Anita.
00:03:10He's got having a meltdown.
00:03:11We don't know about the distance capabilities there.
00:03:13Who knows what else he's got in his barn.
00:03:15And look, National Treasure is a really nice three-year-old who was a solid third in the
00:03:20sham, ran well.
00:03:22All three horses ran exceptionally well, buyer speed figure 95.
00:03:27And what struck me about the way they did it, guys, is that it was a very contentious
00:03:34pace, right?
00:03:36And Reincarnate and National Treasure were right up there.
00:03:39Newgate came from a little off the pace.
00:03:41But any time you see a three-year-old, especially a young three-year-old in January, run that
00:03:46kind of a buyer speed figure off of a pace where they went three quarters of a mile in
00:03:50109.55, that's a sign that there's some real quality there.
00:03:55Yeah, it really was a terrific race.
00:03:58And you know, the longest shot wins the race, 16 to 1 on Reincarnate for Bob Baffert there,
00:04:05the son of good magic.
00:04:06He's a little larger than your regular son of good magic.
00:04:10Seeing him walk around the paddock, he was an absolute beast.
00:04:13In fact, to say that one of Bob Baffert's looked fat in the paddock, he did.
00:04:18He was an absolute monster.
00:04:20Bob's saying afterwards that they've been saying all along that this is his Belmont
00:04:24horse.
00:04:25Well, they might need to reconsider that right now.
00:04:27But he was gritty.
00:04:28He was gutsy.
00:04:29He got a good trip.
00:04:31National Treasure maybe didn't get the best of trips, but none of them disgraced themselves.
00:04:36And they ran hard.
00:04:37They ran hard into a very, very fast pace.
00:04:41A couple of other notes about Baffert's dominance, first of all, in this race.
00:04:44The fourth time in a row he's won the sham, seven out of the last 10 years, nine in all.
00:04:50Last year, 2022, he was 1-2.
00:04:52In 2021, he finished 1-2.
00:04:54In 2020, he finished 1-2.
00:04:56Also, there was a horse in this race, Spun Intended, who pulled up at the top of the
00:05:00stretch.
00:05:01I texted with trainer Mark Glatt this morning.
00:05:03A Spun Intended underwent surgery Monday morning for a condylar fracture, Glatt said
00:05:08via text.
00:05:09The surgery went well, and we are optimistic that he will be okay.
00:05:13Yeah, I actually ran into Mark this morning, and he said he's resting comfortably at the
00:05:18barn.
00:05:19So thumbs up.
00:05:20I said, is that career ending?
00:05:22And he said, well, we don't know yet, because a lot of times horses with condylar fractures
00:05:26do come back and run again.
00:05:28So certainly good news regarding Spun Intended.
00:05:32So guys, what are we going to do with the elephant in the room here?
00:05:35And we talk about Bob Baffert having this tremendous arsenal of talent.
00:05:40But right now, as things stand, Bob Baffert will not be able to train them in the Kentucky
00:05:44Derby.
00:05:45He's still fighting this in the courts.
00:05:47To me, and I think to most people who look at it kind of practically, conventional wisdom
00:05:52is that he's not going to win, which would likely mean that perhaps he'll do exactly
00:05:57what he did last year, which would be to put all the horses in what would be their final
00:06:02prep for the Kentucky Derby in the name of someone else.
00:06:05Why not Tim Yaktin?
00:06:06That's what he did last year.
00:06:08And then Bob Baffert would not be able to train them in the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:13Whatever points they got in the last round of preps, the Arkansas Derby, the Santa Anita
00:06:17Derby, et cetera, would then presumably get them into the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:21If they ran fifth or sixth in the Santa Anita Derby, they're probably not good enough.
00:06:24Anyways, it's a controversial subject.
00:06:26I'm glad it's almost over.
00:06:28After this Kentucky Derby, at least so far as bans and suspensions, Baffert won't have
00:06:34to talk about it again.
00:06:35It's all over.
00:06:36This is the last thing facing him.
00:06:38It is what it is, I guess.
00:06:39I don't think that Baffert is really going to be able to do anything about it.
00:06:41He's going to have to swallow hard, it looks like, and miss another Kentucky Derby where
00:06:46he did all the heavy lifting on these horses and someone else presumably could be in the
00:06:50winner's circle holding that trophy.
00:06:52I'm sure that's not fun for Bob to have to deal with that.
00:06:56Some people think it's very fair.
00:06:57Some people think it's an abomination.
00:06:59He's a polarizing figure.
00:07:00We get it.
00:07:01I would say it is what it is.
00:07:03The only thing I'll reiterate, I'll be so glad when this is over.
00:07:07Yeah, the one, two, three finishers in the sham were all owned by that group that are
00:07:11sort of colloquially known as the Avengers, who showed last year that they were willing
00:07:17to change trainers to get their horses in the Kentucky Derby.
00:07:20One of the interesting things to follow is that Arabian Knight, who in many circles right
00:07:25now is one of the leading early contenders for the Derby, even though he's only run one
00:07:29time, is owned by Amr Zidane, who owned Medina Spirit and who bankrolled a lot of the Bob
00:07:35Baffert legal challenges against Churchill Downs.
00:07:38No love lost there between Zidane and Churchill Downs, so it'll be interesting to see what
00:07:43Zidane chooses to do if Arabian Knight continues down the Derby trail and is a legitimate contender.
00:07:48And I think the thing we'll see as well is sooner rather than later, if Bob hasn't figured
00:07:53this thing out.
00:07:54I've got a lot going on back here.
00:07:56Apparently the grass grew overnight and everybody's mowing the lawns and the dog is barking, but
00:08:01we'll have to wait and see if Bob manages to figure this out.
00:08:05Doodle has woke up.
00:08:06Doodle!
00:08:07Yeah, we can always count on Lucy to not move a muscle.
00:08:11She's out.
00:08:12She's dreaming about Doodle right now.
00:08:14Gotta love that dog.
00:08:15OK, so that is the situation with Bob Baffert dominating several more preps to go.
00:08:20We also have to wonder, are there three more at the barn, back at the barn we haven't even
00:08:23seen Ron yet?
00:08:24That's always a possibility with him.
00:08:26I mean, this is about this time in 2018.
00:08:29Nobody knew who Justify was.
00:08:30He goes on to win the World Cup round.
00:08:33The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:08:35As you know, we're into the third day of the Keeneland January sale as we record this week's
00:08:40podcast, and the auction is off to a terrific start.
00:08:44Through the first two sessions, Keeneland sold 475 horses for an average of a little
00:08:50over $75,000, which is a 5.47% increase from last year.
00:08:56The current sales topper is a three-year-old Warfront filly named Ancient Peace, who incidentally
00:09:01broke her maiden right here at Santa Anita by four and a quarter lengths in December.
00:09:06She was purchased for $650,000 by Bored Short Stables.
00:09:11We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:09:41For generations to come.
00:10:11The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:10:19Uncle Mo had a new stakes winner last week, Scooby Kwan Do.
00:10:22A three-year-old trained by Ben Colbrook won the Turfway Preview stakes on debut.
00:10:27He is the 87th Northern Hemisphere-born stakes winner for Uncle Mo, who stands for $150,000
00:10:34this year.
00:10:35Oh, and Uncle Mo's emergence, he's a sire of sires now.
00:10:39Golden Pal and Mo Donegal are new this year.
00:10:42Ashford's Motown has its first three-year-olds this year and already has several stakes winners.
00:10:48We already mentioned Uncle Mo's Arabian Knight, who is on the Kentucky Derby trail.
00:10:53Bill, Scooby Kwan Do.
00:10:55Yeah, what a gutsy move by trainer Ben Colbrook.
00:10:59The horse was in the day before in a maiden special weight race on the All-Star Eligible
00:11:03List and didn't get in.
00:11:04So rather than just giving up and waiting for another month for a race to come up, he
00:11:08wheeled the horse back as a first-time starter in the Turfway stakes race.
00:11:12Congratulations to Colbrook, job well done, and we'll keep an eye on Scooby Kwan Do down
00:11:16the road.
00:11:17Other news that came out during the week, we get the annual handle figures, all the
00:11:22figures on the business of racing that come out from Equibase.
00:11:25And here are the numbers in a nutshell, which you need to know.
00:11:28The handle for the year was $12.1 billion, which was a decrease of 0.87%, however, pretty
00:11:36good numbers.
00:11:37It was better than it was three or four years ago, and certainly much better than it was
00:11:40in 2020 during the pandemic.
00:11:42But the big news was that purses were up 10.92% in the year at $1.3 billion, a record for
00:11:51purses for thoroughbred racing.
00:11:53It goes back to 1988 when the Jockey Club first started keeping the records, and that
00:11:57year was $676 million.
00:11:59So purses have nearly doubled in, so what's that, 12, 34 years.
00:12:04And obviously, you have to take into account.
00:12:06But guys, to me, I'm not so sure this is such a good story, and here's why.
00:12:11These numbers tell you exactly what we've known for quite some time.
00:12:15The sport is way too dependent on subsidies from casinos.
00:12:19And someday, you have to worry they're going to go away, or they're going to be taken away
00:12:26in part.
00:12:28Another factor is your track, Zoe, California.
00:12:31It's out on an island now.
00:12:32It is the only major racetrack in the country trying to get by without casino revenue.
00:12:37Horse racing should be able to stand on its own two feet and not have to worry about subsidies.
00:12:42Unfortunately, it doesn't.
00:12:43That's not the situation.
00:12:45I applaud the industry for getting $12 billion bet.
00:12:48That's good, even though the numbers several years ago were $15 billion, so it has gone
00:12:52down since then.
00:12:53But I always worry about this marriage of slot machines, casinos, and horse racing.
00:13:00When and if that happens, it's going to be calamitous for horse race.
00:13:07Yeah, but the related problem is the concern about what would happen to horse race tracks
00:13:14if there were no casino subsidies.
00:13:18We had Lou Sella on, I guess it was maybe about a month ago, from Oaklawn Park, and
00:13:23he made a pretty bold statement at the start of our conversation that he believes that
00:13:28ultimately no racetracks in the United States will be able to survive without some forms
00:13:36of alternative gaming.
00:13:37I think there may be some exceptions to that, but we've seen Churchill Lands Incorporated
00:13:43embrace it wholeheartedly as a primary corporate strategy.
00:13:47First Racing at Gulfstream has done it, Naira has done it at Aqueduct.
00:13:53To me, it's an unfortunate reality.
00:13:56I think we all would love to see Thoroughbred Racing be able to stand on its own two feet.
00:14:02But in an era where the costs of everything have skyrocketed, in an era where the value
00:14:09of real estate has gone way up, I just fear that without the expanded gaming to help these
00:14:16racetracks, a lot of them would go the way of Hollywood Park, where the land that the
00:14:20racetrack sits on is more valuable than the profit that the racetrack could generate.
00:14:26Yeah, I mean, you look at Hollywood, you look at Arlington Park, unfortunately, this is
00:14:32what we're living with right now in this day and age.
00:14:35And horse racing is expensive, and the more money to be made, that's where the people
00:14:40are going.
00:14:41And that is why you're seeing Oaklawn flourishing right now.
00:14:44That's why you're seeing Kentucky Downs flourishing, these huge mammoth purses that the people
00:14:50with the good horses are going to, because that's where the money is.
00:14:54And there are no ifs, ands, or buts.
00:14:56Now, sports betting will flourish eventually in all states, and hopefully horse racing
00:15:03will be able to take a good chunk of that, because that is the only way forward, unfortunately.
00:15:08There is no magic wand to be waved over the sport of horse racing.
00:15:12I firmly believe that this is going to have to be the way forward, and unless some multi-billionaires,
00:15:18a hundred of them, come forward and want to subsidize horse racing.
00:15:24Zoe, I want to go back to another thing that I brought up, because you obviously are very
00:15:28involved.
00:15:28You work for First Racing, you work at Santa Anita, you work for XPTV.
00:15:33I'm not sure people really understand the disadvantage Santa Anita and, of course, Del Mar
00:15:40and then Golden Gate Field are at.
00:15:42Right now, you look at the purse structure.
00:15:44Santa Anita is the great race place.
00:15:46It is historic.
00:15:47It is fantastic.
00:15:48It has a great race meet, but the purses there don't come close to equally in Oaklawn Park.
00:15:53I'd have to look this up, but I bet you they don't even quite even match Turfway Park.
00:15:57And if that's the case, let's say for all practical purposes, they're about the same
00:16:00as Turfway.
00:16:01Santa Anita going against Turfway, and you see California finishers like Doug O'Neill
00:16:06has a string at Turfway Park.
00:16:09Kudos to management out there, because they've kept the game going.
00:16:13They kept it going at a high level.
00:16:14But just how difficult has this slot mania made it for California racing?
00:16:21It's made it very difficult.
00:16:22And I think that's one of the reasons that Santa Anita and Del Mar have teamed up to
00:16:27introduce the ship and win, because that's some way in part horses coming out of state,
00:16:32they get five grand to start, and then they have two or three starts to be eligible for
00:16:37the ship and win.
00:16:39They get an extra 30 to 40% on top of what they're making.
00:16:44So if you win a maiden special weight, you are literally on par to what horses are making
00:16:49at Turfway, at Kentucky Downs, at Churchill, at Oak Lawn.
00:16:54And the thing about Kentucky is that you've got to be Kentucky bred.
00:16:58Can you still hear me?
00:16:59It's like there's a big disco going on out here.
00:17:02Anyway, you have to be Kentucky bred.
00:17:03If you're not Kentucky bred, you're running for the exact same purses that we're running
00:17:07for in California.
00:17:10A lot of times you have to look beyond the $100,000 purse, the $100,000 maiden.
00:17:16If you're not Kentucky bred, you're not running for those.
00:17:19But if you're running here in Southern California and you're from out of state, we're encouraging
00:17:23people to come in.
00:17:25There are huge bonuses to be made and a lot of good reasons to run here.
00:17:30Randy, the other stat that caught my attention, and it's a very minor drop, but the average
00:17:34field size 7.3 down from 7.37.
00:17:38And this is the lowest in the history.
00:17:40It goes down every year.
00:17:40I mean, fortunately, it's not going down in huge chunks.
00:17:44But again, here's another one of these conundrums for horse racing.
00:17:48If I were to tell an outsider that, hey, the horse racing purses have never been higher,
00:17:53they say, well, people are just dying to run horses.
00:17:56And no, that's not the case.
00:17:58The average field size has never been lower.
00:18:01And this is another sense, something that sets off an alarm with me.
00:18:06We all know that the smaller the field size is, the worse it is for the game.
00:18:09The betters don't want this.
00:18:11Is 7.3 in 2022 turn into 7.12 in 2023?
00:18:18Then do we go under 7?
00:18:20It looks like this is another trend where there's no reverse to it.
00:18:23I am not nearly smart enough to come up with the answer to this.
00:18:26But again, when you say the smallest field sizes in recorded history of horse racing,
00:18:33that's alarming.
00:18:34We all know that the larger the average field size, the better it is for betters.
00:18:39And the more horse players tend to wager in a situation like that.
00:18:43There's only two solutions.
00:18:44One would be to breed more horses.
00:18:46And two would be to run fewer races.
00:18:50Obviously, the industry is not breeding more horses, as you pointed out.
00:18:55That trend is going down and down and down every year.
00:18:58I think the inescapable conclusion is that right now, we're running too many races in the sport.
00:19:04And there needs to be a reduction in the number of racing days
00:19:07to kind of get that supply and demand back in black a little bit.
00:19:11But good luck convincing some of these breeders.
00:19:15Like Gulfstream Park, for example, which runs essentially year-round nowadays,
00:19:20to dial back on some of their racing days to improve field sizes.
00:19:23I just don't think that's going to happen either.
00:19:25It's a conundrum.
00:19:26Well, there's one other solution that you didn't mention.
00:19:28Would people please start running their horses more often?
00:19:31I mean, if horses were making 10, 11 starts a year,
00:19:33like they did in the good old days of 1980 or something like that,
00:19:37then the average field size would be up.
00:19:39Everybody ought to call up my man, Lynn Cash,
00:19:42say, Lynn, how are you doing this, running these damn things every 10 days?
00:19:45And take a lesson from a guy that's very successful.
00:19:49I'm afraid that's probably not going to happen either, Bill.
00:19:52But yeah, I mean, it's a trend right now that is troubling.
00:19:59Racing is, you know, is hanging on despite it.
00:20:02But I mean, maybe we'll see some good news
00:20:04and we'll get a little turnaround in one of those metrics.
00:20:07But right now, the trends are going in the wrong direction.
00:20:10Certainly are.
00:20:11The PHBA's stallion season auction will be held January 15th through the 22nd.
00:20:17Go to ThoroughlyBred.com, an online marketplace,
00:20:20to register prior to that auction and view the available seasons.
00:20:24And some of the Kentucky-based stallions,
00:20:26with seasons being offered, accelerate, dialed in.
00:20:29Knicks, go!
00:20:30Caracante, Mottole, Tom's d'Etat, Vino Rosso, and more.
00:20:34And there are plenty of Pennsylvania sires in there as well.
00:20:37Remember, Pennsylvania sired, Pennsylvania breds will be eligible
00:20:41for that PHBA stallion series featuring six stakes now
00:20:45and $1 million in purses in 2023.
00:20:49We'll be right back after these messages from the PHBA.
00:20:52Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program,
00:20:56the best in North America.
00:20:57But we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:21:00The PA Horse Breeders Association is funding cutting-edge research at PenVet
00:21:05to detect gene doping in thoroughbreds.
00:21:07And we endorsed the SAFE Act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:21:11Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs
00:21:14set up by our horseman's groups.
00:21:16Just a few of the reasons why you should join us in Pennsylvania,
00:21:20the premier place to breed and race.
00:21:23The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group,
00:21:26an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm
00:21:28specializing in the thoroughbred industry
00:21:30with more than 500 clients in the horse business.
00:21:33The Green Group has proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:21:37Learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:21:41And our guest of the week is Tom Rooney,
00:21:43beginning his second year as president and CEO
00:21:46of the National Thoroughbred Racing Association.
00:21:49For 10 years, Tom served in the U.S. House of Representatives.
00:21:52He's also an Army veteran, a lawyer,
00:21:54and comes from a family with a long history in sports and horse racing,
00:21:57which we will get into shortly.
00:22:00But Tom, first of all, thanks for joining us.
00:22:03Before we drill down into details,
00:22:05I just want to start with an overview.
00:22:07We've witnessed the role of the NTRA over the past quarter century
00:22:11sort of change, maybe out of a pragmatic view
00:22:16about what it could actually hope to accomplish,
00:22:18given the regulatory framework in the sport.
00:22:21So what do you see as the primary roles of today's NTRA?
00:22:27Well, I think it's actually a good thing
00:22:29that I'm kind of new to the industry
00:22:32as far as being part of the industry in that respect.
00:22:36I think it's good that I don't really have
00:22:38the historical knowledge of what the NTRA was
00:22:42because, quite frankly, I don't think that
00:22:43that's what the board hired me to do,
00:22:46is to reflect on what we used to be or what we're going to be.
00:22:51For me, the mission of the NTRA is to be an advocate
00:22:55for horse racing in Washington, D.C.
00:22:59As a former member of Congress
00:23:01and somebody who just opened an office in Washington, D.C. this summer,
00:23:06reconnecting with my friends on the Hill
00:23:10and doing all the things that I need to do
00:23:12for legislators and power brokers in Washington
00:23:17to look at our office as the go-to
00:23:20when they're thinking about matters regarding horse racing.
00:23:24So, you know, I see we do a lot of things.
00:23:28Obviously, we do the Eclipse Awards,
00:23:30the National Horse Players Championship.
00:23:32You know, we have our fingers in a lot of things,
00:23:37but the primary focus on why they hired me
00:23:42was to be their advocate in Washington.
00:23:45So we can't talk about Washington and horse racing
00:23:48without diving a little bit into HISA.
00:23:51The more pessimistic among us thought in late November
00:23:55or mid-November when it was declared unconstitutional
00:23:58that it would perhaps be the death knell for HISA,
00:24:00but instead, pretty quickly,
00:24:03a language revision was inserted into the omnibus spending bill.
00:24:06And lo and behold, now there's optimism again.
00:24:09How involved were you in the NTRA in that?
00:24:12And can you give us sort of a glimpse maybe
00:24:16into what was going on behind the scenes in Washington during all that?
00:24:21I was pretty frantic.
00:24:22And we had, you know, we started off with weekly calls
00:24:26that soon became daily calls after the election.
00:24:31And we were, you know,
00:24:32we were constantly ruling by the court,
00:24:36trying to use the lame-duck session and the urgency therein
00:24:43almost to our advantage because we made it
00:24:47very clear to Leader McConnell's office
00:24:52and to Senator Schumer's office that this had to be done.
00:24:58And I think it's important for leaders in our industry
00:25:00that in 10 years of being in Congress,
00:25:03I've never seen something get ruled unconstitutional.
00:25:06And then in a lame-duck session,
00:25:08using the language that the court said was a problem,
00:25:11having that change so that we could go back to the court
00:25:14and be like, see, we fixed it.
00:25:16I said, you have to be very, very pragmatic
00:25:20and understand that this is probably not going to happen.
00:25:25In this day of partisanship that on an issue like this,
00:25:28where it's important to New York,
00:25:29it's important to Kentucky,
00:25:31that those two men came together
00:25:33and they didn't try to use it
00:25:35as some point of leverage to get something else.
00:25:39They both recognized that it was important for our industry
00:25:43to have uniform standards
00:25:45and to have racetrack safety and accountability
00:25:51and integrity for us to move forward.
00:25:54And so we had sort of that unicorn situation
00:25:58where we had a very short window of time.
00:26:01We made it incumbent upon those two men,
00:26:04especially that we needed this language fix
00:26:09and we were able to get it done
00:26:12despite a pretty good opposition
00:26:16with regard to people that opposed TISA.
00:26:19So we had to work very hard to make sure
00:26:24that we pressed the issue again with those two men
00:26:27and the rest of the members that were going to vote
00:26:29that had problems with it.
00:26:31I was making phone calls days before
00:26:35to members of the Senate that I'm friends with,
00:26:37explaining to them,
00:26:39a lot of people just didn't know what it meant,
00:26:41but they thought it meant more of a government overreach
00:26:46rather than something that had to be done
00:26:49that would help our industry.
00:26:51And I think that once they understood that,
00:26:53they kind of moved on to the next thing.
00:26:55So whereas, Randy, you and I might think
00:26:59that HEIST is the most important thing in the world
00:27:01for a lot of these people.
00:27:02They're like, what is this HEIST thing?
00:27:03Why am I getting phone calls about it?
00:27:06And so my job was to push back with those members
00:27:10and with those senators to say,
00:27:12listen, this is what it's going to do
00:27:13and this is why it's important.
00:27:15And this is why we need it.
00:27:16Regardless of what the other side might be telling you
00:27:20that the sky is falling,
00:27:22this is really important
00:27:24for the advancement of our industry.
00:27:26So you served 10 years in the US House of Representatives.
00:27:30For lack of a better phrase,
00:27:31you stepped away undefeated,
00:27:34probably frustrated, I'm guessing,
00:27:38at the relative disappearance of bipartisanship
00:27:41in Washington compared to the way maybe it used to be
00:27:43and perhaps the way it should be.
00:27:45So how optimistic were you given all this
00:27:48that you could bring the two sides together
00:27:50and actually get this done?
00:27:52I was not optimistic at all.
00:27:54I thought that there was,
00:27:55I think I told the people on the phone call
00:27:58that we met with on a daily basis or a weekly basis
00:28:02that we probably had a 5% chance of success.
00:28:05One of the reasons why I probably hung them up,
00:28:11so to speak, in Congress
00:28:13was that you go to Washington, you get elected,
00:28:16and it's a big moment for you and your family.
00:28:19And you're like, I'm going to go to Washington
00:28:20and get things done
00:28:21and make a difference for my community and my district.
00:28:25And then you go up there and you're one of 435
00:28:28and you're a freshman.
00:28:29And it's just like, you know,
00:28:31go sit in the back and keep your mouth shut.
00:28:34And back then being a good soldier
00:28:36actually meant something positive.
00:28:39You could get yourself on good committees.
00:28:41You could put yourself on good committees.
00:28:43You could put yourself in a position of leadership.
00:28:46And I did all those things.
00:28:47And quite quickly after I got elected
00:28:51in the next couple of terms,
00:28:53actually being a bad soldier,
00:28:56going against your own leadership
00:28:58became a way to get yourself more popular and more money.
00:29:01So then I was sort of like in this, you know,
00:29:04I don't know, you know,
00:29:05this is like crazy opposite world.
00:29:08And so, but we did move up pretty quick.
00:29:11And, you know, and I saw, you know,
00:29:15to really get things done,
00:29:17getting in a position of leadership or chairmanship
00:29:20or that kind of thing,
00:29:22that's where the real power is.
00:29:24But I had a decision to make with regard to, you know,
00:29:28I'd always said I'd only served 10 years
00:29:30and, you know, that was predestined by me
00:29:34thinking that my kids would be going into high school
00:29:37and I didn't want to miss their games or anything.
00:29:39So, you know, sure enough, when 10 years came around
00:29:42and my kids were both playing varsity football
00:29:45and, you know, I just didn't want to miss any games.
00:29:47And, you know, we were going,
00:29:49I was a Republican, we're going into the minority
00:29:51and the minority really controlled nothing.
00:29:54So, you know, that's why I decided
00:29:57not to run for an 11th term.
00:29:59And I don't regret it at all.
00:30:00I mean, there's very few times where I was just like,
00:30:03man, I was up there, you know, during that circus.
00:30:06But I will say it has been nice to go back in this capacity
00:30:13and go into members' offices that I was friends with,
00:30:15including those on leadership.
00:30:17And they're like, hey, Rooney, like, what are you doing now?
00:30:20And then I tell them, they're like,
00:30:21oh, that's perfect for you.
00:30:22And so, like, you know, that's good.
00:30:24And that's part of the process
00:30:25that when I do have to go ask them for something
00:30:30or for help or to kill something potentially
00:30:34that those friendships have been established over.
00:30:37I didn't burn any bridges while I was there
00:30:39on either side of the aisle.
00:30:40So hopefully that's an advantage.
00:30:43You're probably especially glad
00:30:45you were no longer in the House
00:30:46given the speaker of the House, Francis,
00:30:50that just ensued within the Republican Party.
00:30:52But I won't get you into that.
00:30:53I don't think we have enough time.
00:30:56How optimistic are you now
00:30:58that this language has been revised,
00:31:01that that's going to satisfy the Court of Appeals?
00:31:04And HISA can also survive any other challenges
00:31:08and actually be instituted
00:31:10the way many in this Court hope it will?
00:31:12I'm confident.
00:31:14And I think that we addressed
00:31:16exactly what the Court's problems were.
00:31:20There's going to be litigation
00:31:22and there's going to be, you know,
00:31:25pop shots taken at other parts of the bill
00:31:27that don't have to do with the ruling.
00:31:31I don't think that those are fatal.
00:31:33And even if they were ruled against,
00:31:34I think that they could be separated
00:31:36without having to try again
00:31:38with the legislative fix,
00:31:39which would be even more difficult
00:31:41with this Congress.
00:31:45But the big question, Randy,
00:31:47without getting too much in the weeds,
00:31:48is the way that the law is constitutional
00:31:52is based on a model
00:31:54from a previous law called FINRA.
00:31:56And some conservatives have had problems
00:31:59with FINRA and the idea
00:32:02of the legislature delegating authority
00:32:07to the executive branch
00:32:08through a private entity like ISOI,
00:32:13like HISA.
00:32:15That has been challenged before,
00:32:19and FINRA has succeeded.
00:32:22But if HISA is not successful constitutionally,
00:32:31that means FINRA will also not be successful.
00:32:34And that's a law that's been around for decades.
00:32:37That would be a huge shift
00:32:39in what is deemed constitutional
00:32:42and constitutional in this country.
00:32:44So, I mean, if we get to that point,
00:32:47then we're really in trouble.
00:32:48But I just don't see that happening.
00:32:51All right.
00:32:51Zoe is back with us now.
00:32:52There have been rainstorms in California
00:32:54that obviously we all know about
00:32:56that obviously interfered
00:32:57with her internet reception.
00:32:59So Zoe, we've pretty much gone through HISA
00:33:02with a fine-toothed comb right now.
00:33:03So you pick it up now.
00:33:06Oh, well, we've had rain
00:33:08of biblical proportions here,
00:33:10especially for Southern California.
00:33:11So I apologize.
00:33:13We've missed most of it.
00:33:14I think my first question would be,
00:33:16you know, do you Zoom with Lisa Lazarus
00:33:18over a glass of wine every night
00:33:19to try and sort out this HISA thing?
00:33:21But I think you might've already flown by that
00:33:24because I think Lisa's been
00:33:26a great proponent for the game.
00:33:29No, I cannot say enough about Lisa.
00:33:31She sort of, you know,
00:33:33showed up on the scene
00:33:34about the same time I did.
00:33:35So we're sort of the two new kids
00:33:38on the block, so to speak.
00:33:39And we've talked a lot about,
00:33:42you know, this whole last year,
00:33:46many times, not over a Zoom glass of wine,
00:33:49but, you know, maybe in person.
00:33:50But she is just such an asset
00:33:56to our industry,
00:33:58not only with her intelligence,
00:34:01her background,
00:34:02but also one of the biggest things
00:34:05that she brings to the table,
00:34:07I think, which is hugely important,
00:34:09is her empathy for the opposition
00:34:12and to not just discard people.
00:34:14It'd be so easy for some people
00:34:15to be like, you know, the hell with you.
00:34:17This is the law, so deal with it.
00:34:19I think that Lisa really tries her best
00:34:23to understand
00:34:24what the opposition's problems are
00:34:28and to try to come together
00:34:30and do the best that she can
00:34:32to bring them on board.
00:34:33It's not always successful.
00:34:34In fact, most of the time it's not.
00:34:36But I've never seen anybody
00:34:38that has met with her
00:34:40or she's traveled to go see
00:34:42a group of people that oppose.
00:34:44She walks into the lion's den
00:34:45more than anybody I know
00:34:46and knowing she's going to.
00:34:49And where she walks out of that room
00:34:52and the opposition is asked how to go,
00:34:54nobody says we can't stand her.
00:34:56Everybody says the opposite.
00:34:58So I think that I think that
00:35:00that is a huge asset to to us
00:35:03and to Heise's success
00:35:06that she's not willing to take
00:35:09an us versus them attitude.
00:35:10And and we, you know, we really
00:35:13that takes a lot of patience
00:35:15and a lot of skill
00:35:16to be able to do that.
00:35:17So I'm very much glad she's she's here.
00:35:22Tom, you've got plenty of skin in the game.
00:35:24I believe you're probably pretty
00:35:26fluent with the pitchfork in your hand.
00:35:29Your family's got farm.
00:35:32You've been around horses your whole life.
00:35:34You've been in Congress.
00:35:35Your family actually owns
00:35:36the Palm Beach Kennel Club,
00:35:38which we saw recently,
00:35:39the Greyhound Racing,
00:35:41deceased basically in Florida.
00:35:44Has this really given you
00:35:46a little bit more of a push
00:35:48to get into horse racing
00:35:49and try and push it moving forward
00:35:51so that does not happen
00:35:53in any shape or form?
00:35:55Absolutely.
00:35:56There's no doubt that,
00:35:58you know, I have felt this
00:36:00at the most personal level.
00:36:01You know, I told the story out in Arizona
00:36:03when I first got this job
00:36:05that our family is run
00:36:07Yonkers Racetrack,
00:36:10Green Mountain Racetrack in Vermont,
00:36:12no longer there,
00:36:14which was which was thoroughbreds,
00:36:16harness and dogs at one point.
00:36:20And then Liberty Bell Racetrack,
00:36:22which is now a strip mall
00:36:24at Palm Beach Kennel Club,
00:36:25which now does not have Greyhounds.
00:36:27So it is not lost on me in the least
00:36:30how important it is to make sure
00:36:34that we are doing
00:36:36and saying the right things
00:36:38to make sure that thoroughbred racing
00:36:40does not go the way of other things.
00:36:43And as part of things like sports betting
00:36:45and as part of things like ISA
00:36:47to where we are considered
00:36:49a national sport
00:36:51along the lines of the NFL
00:36:53and Major League Baseball.
00:36:55And in that kind of vision.
00:36:59So I know how fragile
00:37:01to answer your question it can be
00:37:04and how quickly it can go.
00:37:07You know, once,
00:37:07especially in the age of social media
00:37:10and likes and that kind of thing,
00:37:12you know, it's a lot easier
00:37:14for somebody to pile on our industry
00:37:17with a video or something
00:37:19and garner, you know,
00:37:21some kind of support
00:37:22that you can't respond to.
00:37:24Our job is to respond
00:37:25and to do so in a way
00:37:27that shows that we're doing everything
00:37:29that we can to be fair
00:37:31in the love of our sport.
00:37:32But, you know,
00:37:34also to answer your question,
00:37:36I just, you know, I grew up,
00:37:38my grandfather got involved
00:37:40in horse racing very early on.
00:37:45You know, there would be
00:37:46no Pittsburgh Steelers
00:37:47if there was no horse racing
00:37:50in our family.
00:37:50That goes hand in hand.
00:37:53So, you know, when I was younger
00:37:56and I would go back
00:37:57to the backstretch
00:37:58with my grandfather
00:38:00and I saw him talking
00:38:01to the jockeys and the trainers
00:38:03and see a horse with the veins
00:38:05and, you know, steam coming up.
00:38:07And I just thought it was magic.
00:38:09I mean, I bought in Hookline
00:38:11and said, you know,
00:38:12not everybody does.
00:38:13Like my wife was like,
00:38:16what are we doing
00:38:16in the backstretch?
00:38:18Let's, you know, get out of the way.
00:38:19But so I've always been that way.
00:38:23And then when I got elected
00:38:24to Congress, I went up to,
00:38:26we have my grandfather's farm
00:38:28up in Maryland.
00:38:31I took my kids
00:38:31when they were little
00:38:32up to see the foals.
00:38:34And there was a horse,
00:38:36a filly there that had been abandoned.
00:38:40I guess somebody wasn't
00:38:41paying their bills
00:38:42and the farm manager
00:38:43like two year old,
00:38:45great looking filly,
00:38:45great confirmation.
00:38:46Do you want her?
00:38:47I'm like, I don't know
00:38:48what to do with her.
00:38:49I'm driving an SUV.
00:38:51Like, he's like, no,
00:38:52we'll send her to,
00:38:53you know, get broken.
00:38:54And so I was learning
00:38:55all this stuff.
00:38:55And of course,
00:38:56she ends up winning
00:38:57her first race.
00:38:59She wins her third race.
00:39:00So I'm like, this is great.
00:39:01Like, let's go to the winner's circle again.
00:39:05But, and then she came in second
00:39:07in the Maryland Million Ladies.
00:39:08And so, you know,
00:39:11that was the beginning.
00:39:13And so now here 12 years later,
00:39:16I can't even tell you,
00:39:17you know, my wife keeps track of this,
00:39:21but I probably got four brood mares
00:39:24and I try to send some to the sales,
00:39:26keep a filly here and there
00:39:27to race myself.
00:39:29And just got, you know,
00:39:30my first horse that I bred
00:39:32that won a stakes race
00:39:33happened last week.
00:39:34So it was awesome.
00:39:35It's great.
00:39:35That's a great story.
00:39:38Your grandfather's a great story.
00:39:39I mean, when people hear
00:39:40about Art Rooney,
00:39:41when the name Art Rooney,
00:39:42it's always in conjunction
00:39:43with the Pittsburgh Steelers
00:39:45or the Pittsburgh Pirates,
00:39:46as they were known way back
00:39:48when he first founded the franchise.
00:39:51A lot of people don't realize
00:39:52that your grandfather was one of,
00:39:55if not the best known
00:39:59professional horse players of the 1930s.
00:40:02You referenced that he used his money
00:40:04as a professional gambler
00:40:06to buy the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise
00:40:08to begin with, with partners.
00:40:10But some of his exploits in gambling,
00:40:13especially at Saratoga,
00:40:14are just legendary.
00:40:15Did you hear any of those family stories?
00:40:18Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:40:19I mean, you know,
00:40:20it's sort of passed down
00:40:21the Thanksgiving dinner
00:40:23to your children
00:40:23to make sure you understand
00:40:25why we live in this house.
00:40:27But, you know, he went on,
00:40:31well, I guess what they call now
00:40:32a little bit of a heater
00:40:33up in New York
00:40:34and not only Saratoga,
00:40:36but I guess what was then Empire,
00:40:38which became Yonkers,
00:40:39I guess they had thoroughbreds
00:40:41and he won.
00:40:43So that's back with bookmakers.
00:40:45And I guess he won so much money
00:40:47by a certain race on the card
00:40:50that they had to cancel
00:40:51the rest of the races
00:40:52because they didn't have any more money.
00:40:55And so he got a police escort
00:40:57to the New York, Pennsylvania border
00:41:00and told my grandmother
00:41:02that they'd never have to worry
00:41:03about money again.
00:41:04And about that time,
00:41:06my uncle was part of,
00:41:07or my great uncle was part
00:41:08of a semi-pro football.
00:41:10It wasn't legal to have sports
00:41:12on Sundays back then in Pennsylvania.
00:41:14So he took over that club team.
00:41:18And then in 1933,
00:41:19they allowed professional sports
00:41:23on Sundays and his betting buddies
00:41:26up at Saratoga were George Hallis,
00:41:29Tim Mera of the Giants,
00:41:33you know, a guy named Burt Bell
00:41:36from the Eagles
00:41:37and somebody else from Washington
00:41:40or thereabouts named Marshall
00:41:43that started a team in Austin.
00:41:48But there's a great book about this
00:41:49called The League, by the way,
00:41:51which is those five guys in Saratoga
00:41:53as young men,
00:41:54I think it'd be a great movie
00:41:56talking about we should start
00:41:57a pro football league.
00:41:58And so, yeah,
00:42:01that's how it all started.
00:42:02But Randy, to be honest with you,
00:42:04I mean, the Steelers were horrible
00:42:06for 40 years and to make payroll.
00:42:10My grandfather got into the racing
00:42:12business with these racetracks,
00:42:13but also as a handicapper,
00:42:15he used to make payroll
00:42:17by winning at the track
00:42:18or by these other racetracks
00:42:21that he had acquired was the way
00:42:24that he funded that football team.
00:42:26And until ironically enough,
00:42:29recently, the celebration
00:42:30of the Immaculate Reception's
00:42:3150-year anniversary,
00:42:32that really changed our franchise around.
00:42:37With that one play,
00:42:38so we've been very lucky.
00:42:41What you referenced is this book
00:42:43by John Eisenberg,
00:42:45who happens to be a friend of mine.
00:42:48John tells the story of 1937
00:42:50Saratoga meeting of your grandfather
00:42:52leaving the meet with a profit
00:42:54of around $400,000,
00:42:57which in today's money would be
00:42:59what, three to four million?
00:43:01It's just unbelievable.
00:43:02Unbelievable.
00:43:03Yeah, that's a great book.
00:43:05That's a great book.
00:43:07How's your gambling prowess, Tom?
00:43:10Not good.
00:43:12I've not gotten that.
00:43:14In fact, I got a lot of crap
00:43:16from my high school buddies
00:43:17that were all celebrating my win
00:43:19in the half stakes last week
00:43:21as the breeder.
00:43:23Like, well, how much did you bet?
00:43:26I bet $20 on them to show.
00:43:29What?
00:43:30I'm just like, I don't like betting
00:43:33on my own horses.
00:43:34I don't know why I'll do $20
00:43:36usually to win,
00:43:36just as like sort of a karma thing.
00:43:39But, you know, I'm good
00:43:42with the purse money
00:43:43and that kind of thing.
00:43:45But, you know,
00:43:47I remember when I was younger
00:43:49and we were at the dog track
00:43:50and my grandfather
00:43:50was sitting there with me
00:43:51and I went up to bet.
00:43:53He's like, what are you doing?
00:43:54And I said, I'm betting.
00:43:55He's like, don't ever bet.
00:43:56You don't know what you're doing.
00:43:57And I'm just like,
00:43:58well, you bet all the time.
00:44:00And he's just like,
00:44:00well, I know what I'm doing.
00:44:02I'm like, okay.
00:44:03So, you know, do as I say,
00:44:06not as I do.
00:44:07But this is the perfect segue
00:44:09to the National Horseplayers
00:44:10Championship, right?
00:44:11And in Las Vegas,
00:44:13tell us a little bit about
00:44:14about that on the horizon
00:44:15here for this event.
00:44:17I honestly, you know,
00:44:18I had no idea what to expect
00:44:20when I first saw it last year.
00:44:22And so when you walk into
00:44:24that room in Las Vegas,
00:44:25it really feels like a world
00:44:27series of poker type situation.
00:44:29Plus, we have we had
00:44:30all these football games
00:44:32because last year it was early.
00:44:33It was in January.
00:44:34Now we moved it to March
00:44:36to sort of like capture
00:44:37the March Madness stuff.
00:44:39But so you've got all these
00:44:40sporting events on huge screen
00:44:41TVs and they've got all these
00:44:43tables in this in this ballroom.
00:44:48But, you know, the thing
00:44:49that I expressed to them
00:44:51was sort of partly that story
00:44:53at the dinner later that,
00:44:55you know, my affinity
00:44:57towards horseplayers is equal
00:44:58to my affinity towards horses.
00:45:01So, you know, I wouldn't be
00:45:04where I am today if it wasn't
00:45:05for people like them and people
00:45:09listening to people and the ideas
00:45:12and the complaints that they
00:45:13have about how it's more
00:45:15what would be more advantageous
00:45:17for them as a better.
00:45:19So I listened to that
00:45:20with a very keen ear.
00:45:22And so but the event
00:45:26itself was awesome.
00:45:28The room was great.
00:45:29You know, what I also noticed
00:45:30was the fellowship at those tables.
00:45:33I don't know if you've
00:45:33all ever been there,
00:45:35but these these people
00:45:37have been playing together
00:45:38or, you know, at least
00:45:40near each other or whatever
00:45:42for years and years and years.
00:45:44So, I mean, there's definitely
00:45:46this sort of like microcosm
00:45:49of a community with these
00:45:51high end horse players that
00:45:53I think when they get to go out
00:45:55to Vegas every year to reconnect,
00:45:57it's it's a big family.
00:45:59And so I loved it.
00:46:02I can't wait to go back.
00:46:03It is such a great event.
00:46:05And I think that it can be,
00:46:06you know, I'd like to make it,
00:46:08you know, invite people from abroad
00:46:10or make it a little bit
00:46:11more international
00:46:12or something like that,
00:46:13have like an international table.
00:46:16And there's other things
00:46:17that we can do, maybe
00:46:18like the final table
00:46:19is more visible on TV,
00:46:22kind of like the last table
00:46:23on the World Series of Poker.
00:46:25So those are things
00:46:26that we'll figure out
00:46:28as we go on.
00:46:29But, you know, the guy
00:46:30that won it last year,
00:46:32who will be at the Eclipse Awards
00:46:33this year, you know,
00:46:36he was he was, you know,
00:46:38a middle class guy
00:46:39from upstate New York.
00:46:41And when he got the check,
00:46:42he's like this,
00:46:43this is going to change
00:46:44my family's life.
00:46:45And I mean, sort of like
00:46:46what I said before, you know,
00:46:47and hopefully that it does.
00:46:50But anyway, it's a great event.
00:46:54That being said,
00:46:55what does the 2023
00:46:57gambling landscape look like?
00:46:59Because we saw penny
00:47:00penny breakage pass in Kentucky,
00:47:02which is absolutely fantastic.
00:47:04What can horseplayers
00:47:05look forward to in 2023?
00:47:08Well, I think that, you know,
00:47:09the the the sport
00:47:11is definitely on a good trend.
00:47:14The metrics and the numbers
00:47:15that we've seen
00:47:17over the last year overall,
00:47:20when you're talking about purses
00:47:22and you're talking about,
00:47:24you know, handle and the like,
00:47:27the trends, I think,
00:47:28are all very good.
00:47:29There was a couple things
00:47:31that there were down
00:47:32that, you know, you can explain.
00:47:34But when you go to these sales
00:47:35and you see at the sales level
00:47:39with regard to handle,
00:47:40with regard to purses,
00:47:43when you got a horse like flight line,
00:47:45it definitely helps
00:47:46when you got an 80 to one shot
00:47:47win in the derby,
00:47:48that does not hurt.
00:47:51So I think that I think that,
00:47:53you know, it's going to be
00:47:55based on what kind of product
00:47:57we put out there.
00:47:57And if if this year,
00:48:00this past year, I'm sorry,
00:48:01is precedent,
00:48:03we should be in good shape.
00:48:04I mean, obviously,
00:48:05we all hold our breath
00:48:07on our big races to hope
00:48:09for clean trips and
00:48:12and a good day for everybody.
00:48:13But I feel good.
00:48:16But the one thing that I'm focused on,
00:48:19which will get to,
00:48:21I think, the next generation
00:48:24is to do what I can
00:48:26at the federal level,
00:48:27which we've worked
00:48:29with credit card companies
00:48:31and the like to try to get
00:48:33what's called a single wallet
00:48:35on the sports betting apps.
00:48:38One of my biggest focuses
00:48:41for the sake of the gambler
00:48:43is to try to figure out a way
00:48:46to integrate horse racing,
00:48:48which, as you all know,
00:48:49is the only legal sport
00:48:51in our country
00:48:52for the longest time.
00:48:53And now we're competing
00:48:54in certain states with all sports.
00:48:57And so FanDuel
00:48:59is one of my board members.
00:49:01And we were able to work
00:49:02with them to get
00:49:05horse racing on FanDuel
00:49:08shared application.
00:49:09So you don't have to go off
00:49:12one app to get on another one
00:49:14if you're betting on football
00:49:15or hockey to go on
00:49:16and bet on horse racing.
00:49:18That's a big step.
00:49:20The biggest step, though,
00:49:21for me from the gambler's
00:49:23point of view,
00:49:25I think is going to be
00:49:26I have college age sons
00:49:28and they talk about,
00:49:29oh, I did a $20 parlay
00:49:31where I put in the Steelers
00:49:34and the Sixers
00:49:35and Villanova basketball.
00:49:37And every time you add one,
00:49:39your $20 moves up and up and up.
00:49:43And I remember my son
00:49:47asking me like,
00:49:48yo, dad, who's going to win
00:49:50the Kentucky Derby?
00:49:52And then he's like,
00:49:52well, I can't find it on my app.
00:49:54That's a problem.
00:49:56He has to be able to find it
00:49:57on his app.
00:49:58I have to be able to tell him
00:49:59that this is the horse
00:50:00that I was going to win.
00:50:01Add that to your parlay
00:50:03and what's that boosted to?
00:50:06The problem is,
00:50:07is that we operate
00:50:09in the parimutuel system.
00:50:11I'm not saying parimutuel
00:50:12system is a problem.
00:50:13I'm saying that that's why
00:50:15they can't tell you
00:50:16when you put your $20 down
00:50:18what the end result is going to be
00:50:19because it fluctuates.
00:50:21So states like New Jersey,
00:50:23as you probably know,
00:50:25have, I was at the Haskell this year
00:50:27and they had a fixed odds option.
00:50:31I know that that's available
00:50:33in Ireland and England
00:50:35and probably elsewhere.
00:50:36So whether or not
00:50:39that can be integrated
00:50:41into our sport nationally
00:50:45remains to be seen.
00:50:46New Jersey has tried it.
00:50:48But I've also,
00:50:49I first took this job
00:50:50and I was reading articles
00:50:51about fixed odds
00:50:52versus parimutuel odds.
00:50:55I thought, well,
00:50:56we've got to get a fixed odds,
00:50:58at least for the grade ones,
00:50:59there's got to be a fixed odds option.
00:51:02But then the more people I talk to,
00:51:04very smart,
00:51:05very intelligent people
00:51:06in our industry
00:51:08have said we're close
00:51:09to being able to figure out a way
00:51:10to do it with parimutuel too.
00:51:12So that's where we are right now.
00:51:16But that is going to be a game changer.
00:51:18I think when people like my son
00:51:21and his friends at his college
00:51:24are able to loop in
00:51:28the Breeders' Cup Classic
00:51:29or the Derby
00:51:30or the Preakness
00:51:31and what they're doing,
00:51:33that's the future of sports betting.
00:51:36And I don't buy this, by the way.
00:51:37I've heard the arguments.
00:51:38Well, that's going to take away,
00:51:40that's going to move people
00:51:42from horse racing
00:51:43to they're going to get,
00:51:45they're going to move to footballers.
00:51:46I'm like,
00:51:47if you know how to bet on the horses
00:51:49and I seriously doubt
00:51:51that you're like,
00:51:52oh my God, I can bet on football.
00:51:53Like, I'm just going to move to football.
00:51:55I think that people that bet on horses
00:51:57bet on horses.
00:51:58And I don't think that we're going to lose
00:52:01those people that are going to go,
00:52:03now I'm just going to go bet on football.
00:52:05I think it's going to gain people
00:52:06that bet on football
00:52:08that now know that they can bet on horses.
00:52:10I think that,
00:52:11but I could be wrong.
00:52:13But we cannot be left out
00:52:16of legalized sports gambling
00:52:19moving forward in the future.
00:52:21And so, you know,
00:52:24one of the biggest things
00:52:25that I'm going to work on is that.
00:52:28Well, those are fantastic objectives, Tom.
00:52:31The sport is lucky to have someone like you
00:52:33in the position that you're at.
00:52:34Horse players are fortunate
00:52:36to have you where you're at.
00:52:38Thanks so much for taking the time
00:52:39to be with us.
00:52:40We really appreciate it.
00:52:41Thanks guys.
00:52:42I appreciate it.
00:52:44Thanks, Tom.
00:52:45The Green Group guest of the week
00:52:46was brought to you by The Green Group,
00:52:48an accounting and tax
00:52:49consulting advisory firm
00:52:50specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:52:52And as this week's guest of the week,
00:52:55Tom Rooney of the NTRA
00:52:56will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
00:52:59Again, learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:53:03And we'll be right back
00:53:04after this message from The Green Group.
00:53:07Why do the most successful owners,
00:53:09breeders and horsemen
00:53:09select The Green Group as their tax advisor?
00:53:11We simply save them money
00:53:13and know how to make them more successful.
00:53:14Over the past 40 years,
00:53:15founder Leonard Green has owned and bred
00:53:17some of the best racehorses
00:53:19in the history of the sport.
00:53:20His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge
00:53:22combined with cutting edge tax saving strategies
00:53:24has produced positive results for his clientele
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00:53:36or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:53:39The Green Group,
00:53:40proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:53:43With some of the fullest fields in the country
00:53:45and quality racing year-round,
00:53:48there's never been a better time
00:53:49to reap the rewards
00:53:50of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:53:54Purse money in Kentucky
00:53:55is at an all-time high
00:53:57as is average purse per race
00:53:59outpacing California,
00:54:00Florida and New York.
00:54:03Kentucky breds.
00:54:04Breed them.
00:54:05Raise them.
00:54:07Race them.
00:54:08We all win.
00:54:13You don't have to know anything
00:54:14about horse racing
00:54:15to know that Kentucky
00:54:17is the horse capital of North America
00:54:19and some would say
00:54:19the horse capital of the world
00:54:21where the stats from 2022 are in.
00:54:25And if you need more justification of that,
00:54:2778% of all the grade one races in the US
00:54:30were won by Kentucky breds.
00:54:3269% of all the graded races,
00:54:35not just grade one,
00:54:36grade two or three as well,
00:54:37won by Kentucky breds.
00:54:39And nine of the top 10 earners in 2022
00:54:42were Kentucky breds,
00:54:43including of course,
00:54:44Reader's Cup Classic winner,
00:54:46Flightline.
00:54:47Well, not only NFL fans,
00:54:49but all of America was captivated
00:54:51by the story of the Buffalo Bills safety,
00:54:53DeMar Hamlin.
00:54:54And the story began
00:54:55on a very awful, ominous note
00:54:57as it looked like he literally
00:54:58was going to lose his life
00:54:59after a tackle
00:55:00in a Monday night football game.
00:55:02But it turned out to be
00:55:03a good news story in the long run
00:55:04as he has been dismissed
00:55:06from a hospital in Cincinnati,
00:55:08now back home in Buffalo,
00:55:10doing great,
00:55:12looks like he is going to have
00:55:13a full recovery.
00:55:14But it leads you to horse racing.
00:55:17And as dangerous as the NFL can be,
00:55:20it's not nearly as dangerous
00:55:22as horse racing,
00:55:23which I think is the most dangerous sport.
00:55:25But horse racing had its own
00:55:26DeMar Hamlin story
00:55:27and TD Thornton, our colleague
00:55:29in the Thoroughbred Daily News
00:55:30had a really good story
00:55:31in his weekend review.
00:55:32A jockey by the name of Jory Scriver
00:55:34was injured last week
00:55:36in a spill at Sunland Park.
00:55:38And the early reports were
00:55:39that she was paralyzed.
00:55:41And you know, it is just an awful story
00:55:43for any young jockey
00:55:44for this to be going through this.
00:55:46TD got her on the phone,
00:55:48didn't even expect to get her.
00:55:49He thought he was going to get through,
00:55:51get to her boyfriend.
00:55:53She picks up the phone
00:55:54and she now has feeling in her legs.
00:55:56We don't know yet
00:55:58how far this recovery is going to go,
00:55:59if she's going to be fully recovered
00:56:01at the end of the day,
00:56:02but certainly like with Hamlin,
00:56:04good news,
00:56:05heading in the right direction
00:56:06and there's reason to believe
00:56:07that she's going to be okay.
00:56:08Zoe, I'm sure this story hit home with you
00:56:10because not only is it a fellow female writer,
00:56:13but you know, you live this,
00:56:14the dangers of horse racing,
00:56:15the constant fear of this.
00:56:17What were your thoughts
00:56:18when you read this story?
00:56:19Well, male, female,
00:56:21it doesn't really matter.
00:56:22I'm just delighted
00:56:23that she does have some kind of feeling
00:56:26in her lower extremities
00:56:27as of this recording,
00:56:29as of TD Thornton's article,
00:56:31she did crack a few vertebrae
00:56:33and break a few ribs
00:56:34and she's in good spirits,
00:56:36which is good.
00:56:37And you can go to the TDN
00:56:38website and look up her GoFundMe page.
00:56:40I think I've shared it
00:56:41on my Twitter account as well.
00:56:43And, you know,
00:56:44put some money in there if you want,
00:56:46because, you know,
00:56:47people look at the jocks like Johnny V,
00:56:50like Frankie DeTore,
00:56:52Joelle Rosario,
00:56:53basically the top 5%
00:56:56of jockeys in the country
00:56:57make a very good living
00:56:59and live very good jobs.
00:57:00Very, very nicely indeed.
00:57:03But the rest of them
00:57:04are living day to day,
00:57:05like basically 80%
00:57:07of the whole worldwide jockey
00:57:09currently is struggling.
00:57:11And this injury,
00:57:12this type of injury
00:57:13is going to set her back
00:57:15an awful long way.
00:57:16And what people think about jockeys,
00:57:18they think of Kentucky Derby.
00:57:20They don't think about the day-to-day
00:57:21running Turf Paradise,
00:57:23Zia Park, Charlestown.
00:57:25These are the guys
00:57:26that are really working
00:57:27and really living it.
00:57:28This is a sport
00:57:29where an ambulance follows us.
00:57:31An ambulance doesn't follow
00:57:32the NFL players, it's there.
00:57:34But an ambulance doesn't follow them
00:57:36going 30 miles an hour
00:57:38and a vet truck follow them
00:57:39at 30 miles an hour.
00:57:40This is a sport
00:57:42where you can't have
00:57:43any kind of fear.
00:57:44If you go in the gate
00:57:45and you're wondering
00:57:46what's going to happen,
00:57:46then you've got no business
00:57:47being in the starting gate
00:57:49in the first place.
00:57:50So kudos out to these jockeys.
00:57:52It is a choice
00:57:53at the end of the day.
00:57:54And it's a choice
00:57:55that they all make gladly
00:57:56because the bulk of them
00:57:58love what they're doing
00:57:59and they love the horses
00:58:00and they love the industry.
00:58:01But at the same time,
00:58:03it's a very dangerous sport.
00:58:05And it's not all
00:58:07that you see on the TV.
00:58:09It's the day-to-day nitty gritty,
00:58:11the bottom end claimers,
00:58:13the blue collar workers
00:58:14that really make
00:58:15this sport go round.
00:58:16And we as an industry
00:58:18should stand up
00:58:18and support the people
00:58:20that really do
00:58:21make this sport go round.
00:58:23Yeah, the DeMar Hamlin injury
00:58:26took place on January the 2nd.
00:58:28It was a Monday night
00:58:29football game on ESPN,
00:58:31one of the most anticipated
00:58:33games of the season
00:58:34between the Bills and the Bengals.
00:58:36And so there were millions
00:58:37of people watching
00:58:38and just created this
00:58:40massive uplifting swell
00:58:42of publicity that continues
00:58:44to this day
00:58:45as we all watch his recovery.
00:58:46The very day before,
00:58:48January 1st,
00:58:51was when Jory's injury
00:58:52happened at Sunland Park
00:58:53in anonymity,
00:58:55a small race at Sunland Park.
00:58:57I'm sure there were
00:58:58a lot of people
00:58:59within the thoroughbred industry
00:59:01that weren't even aware
00:59:03of the spill
00:59:04and of her injuries
00:59:05until T.D. Thornton
00:59:06wrote about it.
00:59:07Everyone read it in the TDN.
00:59:10Such a difference in publicity
00:59:11between the two,
00:59:12even though her injuries
00:59:14are going to require
00:59:15much more extensive rehab.
00:59:17So fingers crossed,
00:59:18we're all hoping and praying
00:59:21that she turns the corner
00:59:23and recovers.
00:59:23And it's just,
00:59:25as you pointed out,
00:59:25so it's just another example
00:59:27of the dangers
00:59:28that these jockeys face
00:59:30every day at every track.
00:59:32And while we're at it,
00:59:33and we don't need to debate this,
00:59:34but I just want to bring this up.
00:59:36There's another very good story by T.D.
00:59:38as he did the coverage
00:59:39of Veteran Louis Grasso.
00:59:41And you got to look this up.
00:59:42Grasso is on,
00:59:44I think January 24th is the date,
00:59:46will be sent off to jail
00:59:48for his role in the Navarro service.
00:59:50He was a vet supplying
00:59:52all these people with drugs, whatnot.
00:59:54So we already know the guy's a crook.
00:59:57But what we didn't know
00:59:58is he's the dumbest man alive.
00:59:59And that is what he did
01:00:02has to be
01:00:03to have done what he did.
01:00:05So on his way,
01:00:05he's sitting at home
01:00:06waiting for us to go to jail.
01:00:08What does he do?
01:00:08He goes to a casino,
01:00:09Pocono Downs, a harness track,
01:00:11and decides to rig
01:00:12a electronic dice game.
01:00:14And with along with the dealer
01:00:16where the dice,
01:00:18you could see the outcome
01:00:20of the roll of the dice
01:00:21and then make your bets.
01:00:23It's like betting on a horse race
01:00:24after the race is over.
01:00:25He managed to win about $24,000.
01:00:28He actually thought
01:00:29he wasn't going to get caught.
01:00:30The casino wasn't
01:00:31going to figure this out.
01:00:33So congratulations, Louis Grasso.
01:00:34You were the dumbest man alive.
01:00:36All right.
01:00:37So on that note,
01:00:39we got and about to end
01:00:40this week's segment
01:00:41of the Thoroughbred Daily News podcast.
01:00:44But before we do that,
01:00:45we got a lot more to come.
01:00:46What's going on with XBTV, Zoe?
01:00:49As we all know,
01:00:50the TDN Writers Room
01:00:51is brought to you
01:00:52in part by XBTV.
01:00:54XBTV.com's Workout of the Week
01:00:56is Nuclear.
01:00:58He worked out in 48 and 3 on Saturday.
01:01:01He is a $1.55 million purchase
01:01:04for West Point Thoroughbreds
01:01:05and Taller Racing at Keeneland,
01:01:08seen working here on the 5th.
01:01:10We'll be right back
01:01:11after these messages from XBTV.
01:01:28All the thrills.
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01:02:16is brought to you
01:02:17by West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:02:20Thoroughbreds partnership
01:02:21can literally vote you
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01:02:28Learn more at WestPointTV.com.
01:02:31Meanwhile, West Point
01:02:33had a winner on Sunday
01:02:34with Bourbon Ready,
01:02:35who broke his maiden
01:02:36for Todd Pletcher at Goldstream Park.
01:02:38And earlier last week,
01:02:39their filly, Lytrous,
01:02:41went on debut at Tampa
01:02:43for Christophe Clement.
01:02:45And this week's Remy cartoon is in.
01:02:47It's really cute with the January sale
01:02:48at Keeneland is going on right now,
01:02:50and he kind of piggybacks off of that.
01:02:52He has two people looking at a horse
01:02:53and one person is sort of
01:02:54kicking the back hooves
01:02:56and another horse person
01:02:57is looking down the horse's throat,
01:02:59kicking the back hooves,
01:03:00kicking the tires,
01:03:01looking under the hood.
01:03:02This apparently there's
01:03:03a lot of these people
01:03:04on a car dealership somewhere.
01:03:05So that's how they go
01:03:07and look at horses at the sales.
01:03:09Well, once again,
01:03:10another segment of the
01:03:11Thoroughbred Daily News
01:03:12Writers Room podcast is in the books.
01:03:13I want to thank our entire team.
01:03:15We want to thank Tom Rooney,
01:03:16our Green Group guest of the week,
01:03:18our producer, Patty Wolfe,
01:03:19our associate producer,
01:03:21Katie Petruniak,
01:03:22and our whole team of Zoe Cadman,
01:03:25Randy Moss, myself,
01:03:26as long as our editors,
01:03:27Anthony LaRocca,
01:03:28Alina LaRocca,
01:03:29and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:03:30We'll be back at the same time next week.
01:03:31Thanks for joining us.
01:03:32See you then.