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00:00:00For the love of the horse. For generations to come.
00:00:29Welcome to Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and also the co-host of the Down the Stretch Radio Show on Sirius XM Radio with Dave Johnson.
00:00:40How y'all doing? I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:43Clearly not in my home office.
00:00:45No ocean and palm trees in the great state of Minnesota.
00:00:48But ready to roll.
00:00:50Where are you? Are you in Miami, Randy?
00:00:53I am still in Miami.
00:00:55Yes, I am.
00:00:56There are worse places to be on a January afternoon.
00:01:00You poor thing.
00:01:01All right. I'm Zoe Cadman with Santa Anita and First Racing.
00:01:04I am not at home either.
00:01:06I am in St. Mary's, Georgia.
00:01:09Of all places you could be in the world.
00:01:11And it is absolutely gorgeous here.
00:01:14Well, guys, obviously, the big story of the weekend was the Pegasus and the very imposing, very impressive win by White Iberio who won the Pegasus by six and a quarter lengths.
00:01:25And just a few seconds in the Gainesway Guest of the Week segment, we'll be hearing from his trainer, Safi Joseph, Jr.
00:01:31And we last week dissected the race and looked at it, handicapped it.
00:01:36I think Saudi Crown.
00:01:37I'm not saying I'm at all shocked that White Iberio won the race.
00:01:41Obviously, he's a very good horse.
00:01:43But to me as a handicapper and racing fan, Randy, he's still hard to figure.
00:01:48I mean, some days he runs races like this and you think this is, you know, a horse of the ages.
00:01:55But yet he came into this race off a pretty dull second in the Mr. Prospector.
00:01:59There's been other races, whether with Rick Dutrow or with Safi Joseph, Jr., where he just didn't run a step.
00:02:05So when he's good, he's very, very good.
00:02:08I think right now he's obviously the best horse in the United States, but he's not always so good.
00:02:14So what did you make of his chances going into the race?
00:02:17And are you a little bit surprised not that he won, but that he just destroyed this field?
00:02:22I kind of felt the same about him as you just elaborated on, Bill.
00:02:27I think it was a widely held opinion that if White Iberio ran up to his potential, ran back to the best races of his career in the Whitney and in the Breeders' Cup Classic, that he would probably win.
00:02:41He would almost certainly win.
00:02:42But that was back in 2023.
00:02:44We had, you know, you had a horse in Saudi Crown who was coming off a sharp win in good time at the fairgrounds,
00:02:52who I thought was almost a cinch to control the pace, which he did, who would be on the rail, which he was.
00:02:59Whereas White Iberio, two path, best case scenario, maybe even the three path.
00:03:05So he was going to lose some ground vis-a-vis Saudi Crown.
00:03:08And then he had Locke, who had a poor post position, but was coming off a win on the Cigar Mile and looked to be on an upward trajectory.
00:03:16But we saw White Iberio bounce back to the same form that he had in the summer of 2023.
00:03:23And all credit to Safi Joseph and company.
00:03:27He was amazing. He really was.
00:03:30There's really not a whole lot to say about White Iberio.
00:03:33He set it all on the racetrack.
00:03:35I was all in on Locke, who I thought he ran such a courageous race.
00:03:41He missed the break completely. He was wide. He ate dirt.
00:03:45He did everything that he's never done before and fought very, very bravely indeed.
00:03:51Now, had he broke better, maybe it was a different outcome.
00:03:54I don't think so. I don't think anybody was beating White Iberio on that day.
00:03:59But Locke certainly threw his hat in and he's going to be a major force throughout the year.
00:04:04And again, he proved that you can't win from the 11 post, but he really did try very, very hard indeed.
00:04:10So I don't believe he lost anything in the feat, but a massive kudos to Locke.
00:04:16Kasper here likes him too. Isn't he cute?
00:04:21We've talked so much about having fierceness in Sierra Leone back this year as four-year-olds, which are going to be huge.
00:04:27And now we've got a couple more to talk about, Bill, and White Iberio and Locke.
00:04:31Well, I'll give you one that we're probably not going to be talking about much, at least not in a positive room.
00:04:36Either one is Zoe. Randy, what the heck is going on with Mystic Dan?
00:04:40He has not been the same horse since the Preakness.
00:04:43And once again, with no apparent excuses, he didn't run a step.
00:04:48I talked to Kenny McPeak and I give him credit for not coming up with all the track was to copy.
00:04:52He didn't like it. Kind of nonsense excuses.
00:04:55He says, I have no idea what's going on. Everything looks good to me.
00:04:59This horse just isn't running right now.
00:05:01He said that maybe the answer is to drop him into an easier race and see if he could win a grade three or something like that.
00:05:07And maybe, you know, go from there. But anybody got any theories on why he is having such a hard time?
00:05:13No, no, no theory. All I can say is that we've seen this before and probably two times out of every three.
00:05:20When you have a horse like Mystic Dan, a Kentucky Derby winner, you know, who runs a series of bad races, the next move seems to be retirement.
00:05:28So, I mean, we'll see what happens with him. But it had to be an extremely disappointing race for him.
00:05:34That's the thing about winning the Derby. He was the best horse on that day.
00:05:39And that seems to have been it. He was the recipient of a brilliant ride.
00:05:45Good horse. You can never, ever take that away from him.
00:05:48But he's going to have to find his form. Otherwise, you're correct.
00:05:52He'll be in the breeding shed. And, you know, let's just hope they don't leave it too long.
00:05:56Do you know what I mean? Because so often we've seen what's happened with Rich Strike and you can't get a stud deal and it takes forever.
00:06:02So these are things that you need to jump on right away. The breeding season starts on Valentine's Day, February the 14th.
00:06:09So while everyone's been talking about the Pegasus, the road to the Kentucky Derby also had a stop Saturday at Oakland Park and the Pegasus stakes.
00:06:17I love Oakland Park. It's a grade three prep for a prep with a one million dollar purse.
00:06:22It's just amazing what's going on. And the winner was a horse by the name of Speed King trained by Ron Moquette.
00:06:28But the horse, I think you guys will agree with me, that really was the best horse in the race with no contest was Sandman.
00:06:37And if you remember the week earlier, we were talking about T.D. Thornton's top 10 in for his first installment of it.
00:06:46He had Sandman listed second and me, Mr. Snarky, said Sandman second.
00:06:51Never even heard of that horse. OK, T.D., good job, pal. You nailed one there.
00:06:57I've heard of him now. Zoe, that was an unbelievably good race.
00:07:02I thought even though in defeat, it was the best race I've seen from a three year old this year.
00:07:06I mean, he had just an absolutely terrible start. He kind of was in a tangle and stumbled.
00:07:11And by the time he straightened out, he was seven, eight lengths behind the rest of the field.
00:07:15Closed really well to finish second. The race is a little bit longer. He might have won.
00:07:20The other story, Patch Adams at four to five. No good at fourth. Zoe, what did you think?
00:07:26Well, I mean, if you look at the pictures of the white horse, Sandman leaving the gate there,
00:07:32if you just watch the actual replay, it doesn't look so bad.
00:07:35But you can see the rider completely off the horse, gets back on the horse.
00:07:40And he basically had the exact same trip as Locke had. Overcame an awful lot early to finish up strongly late.
00:07:48So that was him. Now, it was pretty much the same thing with Patch Adams.
00:07:53He didn't break good either. And I'm not sure too many people caught that.
00:07:57He stumbled. He was right at the same place that Sandman was.
00:08:03And I watched this race over and over again because for some reason I'm like,
00:08:07is that really Pratt on that horse? Because he didn't look like Flavium for one minute aboard Patch Adams.
00:08:14So not only did he break badly, had a horrible trip. At the eighth pole, the horse came over on him.
00:08:20He clipped heels. He almost went down at the eighth pole. Patch Adams ran a better race than you think he ever did.
00:08:27I'm going to say that he ran as good a race as Sandman, if not better.
00:08:32Well, you talk about a race that changed complexions from the starting gate to the run around the first turn.
00:08:39The three favorites in the southwest were Patch Adams at four to five, Gaming at two to one, and then Sandman at six to one.
00:08:48They were the only three horses that weren't double digits on the board.
00:08:52And Sandman, I don't know if he tried to prop or almost looked like he tried to wheel for a second.
00:08:57I don't know. But he just lurched badly to the inside and you saw what happened to him.
00:09:01And I agree. I mean, Patch Adams was compromised by stumbling at the start.
00:09:06And Gaming was completely wiped out twice going into and going around the first turn.
00:09:13He lost all chance. They were seventh, eighth and ninth in a nine horse field going around the first turn.
00:09:20Meanwhile, we haven't talked about the winner of the southwest, Speed King, who was left alone on the front end in very manageable fractions.
00:09:29The first quarter mile, 24.11, who ran the best race of his career, took a big step forward to go wire to wire.
00:09:36Buyer's speed figure that race, 93.
00:09:39I have a concern about Speed King at longer distances than a mile and a sixteenth, right?
00:09:47He's from the first crop of stallion Volatile, who was a son of Medaglia d'Oro.
00:09:52He wasn't necessarily bred to be a pure sprinter, but Volatile never ran around two turns.
00:09:58He was a very, very fast horse.
00:10:00It remains to be seen what kind of a stamina influence he'll be on his offspring.
00:10:05But Sandman was pretty much eating up the ground on Speed King in the last part of the southwest.
00:10:10So I've got a question in my mind, certainly about Speed King at a mile and a quarter.
00:10:16And even as we go down the road, maybe at a mile and an eighth.
00:10:21The TDM Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:10:24Keeneland's September Grand Citizen Bull was named the Eclipse Champion two year old male Thursday night at the Breakers in Palm Beach.
00:10:31Randy, you were there.
00:10:33I'm sure you were cheering him on along with NBC and their Eclipse Award once more.
00:10:40So I hope you had fun there.
00:10:42Keeneland's September graduate Moira was named Eclipse Champion female turf horse.
00:10:47And three other Eclipse champions paved their road to the championship with grade one wins at Keeneland.
00:10:55Top three year old male Sierra Leone won the grade one Toyota Bluegrass.
00:10:59Top two year old Philly Immersive won the grade one Dali Alcibiades.
00:11:04And the champion dirt female Idiomatic won the grade one Juddmont Spinster.
00:11:11We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:11:15Still catching. Leslie's Rose. Sierra Leone. Mike, five million dollars. Thank you.
00:11:29Thank you. Carl Spackler, Immersive. She feels ready.
00:11:46This week's fastest horse of the week brought to you by Timberlake.
00:11:49One of the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:11:52Timberlake won the champagne as a two year old.
00:11:55Won his debut by nine and a half lengths.
00:11:57So, you know, he was precocious. He beat Fierceness, the two year old champ, in the champagne.
00:12:01He was also named the TDN Silver Value Sire this year among all the new recruits at stud.
00:12:08He ran big speed figures as a racehorse, but you have to hurry.
00:12:11He had a fee of twenty thousand dollars.
00:12:14There are limited seasons remaining for Timberlake at Windstar Farm.
00:12:20Now, this year, this week's fastest horse of the week.
00:12:22We don't have to talk much about this because we've talked at length about him already.
00:12:26Drumroll, please. White Avario, a one oh nine buyer speed figure,
00:12:32getting back to form and winning the Pegasus World Cup last Saturday.
00:12:40Welcome in now, the Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:12:42Who else could it be this week besides Safi Joseph?
00:12:44Not only won the not only won the Pegasus World Cup with White Avario,
00:12:49won two other stakes races at Gulfstream.
00:12:51Safi, welcome and thanks for joining us.
00:12:53And your horse has been a little bit up and down throughout his career,
00:12:57both with you and with Rick Dutrow.
00:12:59Matter of fact, he was coming into this race off a second place finish in the Mr.
00:13:03Prospector stakes leading up to the Pegasus World Cup.
00:13:07What signs was he giving you?
00:13:09Did you know that he was going to run this kind of just huge hole in the wind race?
00:13:14I mean, you never know he's going to run that good.
00:13:16You hope for him to run that well, but most of the time it doesn't happen.
00:13:20We thought he was sitting on a race that was close to a race that should be good
00:13:26enough to win it if everything went well.
00:13:28And the most important thing for us was that he was going to need to break better.
00:13:32I mean, he didn't break better in both of his races.
00:13:35The allowance, it wasn't really picked up on that much because it was a small field.
00:13:38But obviously in the Mr.
00:13:39Prospector, you saw how important and it compromised him a lot.
00:13:44So, Safi, I see the Math Wizard saddle towel hanging in the background there.
00:13:48We covered the Pennsylvania Derby when you won that race for your first, you know,
00:13:53almost like your breakout win.
00:13:55And then we had your first Breeders' Cup win as well on NBC.
00:13:59How much did it add to the victory for Guadalbaro for you that you've been
00:14:08through so much with this horse?
00:14:10Back to Churchill Downs in 2023 when the horse was given to Rick Dutrow and
00:14:14now came back to you.
00:14:16How does that factor in with the emotions, you know, in the victory?
00:14:21Yeah, it's a wild event that did we ever think we were going to lose him?
00:14:26And the circumstances went through at Churchill?
00:14:28No, but we understood that when he had our status in New York was in limbo.
00:14:34They were kind of holding us hostage, you know, maybe because it shouldn't have
00:14:37been in that way, but it was what it is.
00:14:40We knew we had to give up the horse, so that was a reasonable part.
00:14:43And then you give up the horse.
00:14:46He goes on and he wins the Whitney in the Classic.
00:14:49It's a horse that you had.
00:14:50I mean, you're thankful for the owners and the horse, but would you have liked to
00:14:54have been in that position to do it?
00:14:55Yes.
00:14:56And would he have won the Whitney in the Classic with us?
00:14:59Probably not because we might have not gone that route.
00:15:02So everything in life happens for a reason.
00:15:05And then did you ever envision that we were going to get the horse back?
00:15:08No.
00:15:09I mean, how could you envision the horse wins the Whitney in the Classic and
00:15:11he's going to come back to you?
00:15:12So just the mystery of life is so perplexing.
00:15:17And when we got the horse back and Mark called me and I said,
00:15:21hey, we're going to send the horse back to you.
00:15:23It meant a lot because, in other words, it feels like, hey, these owners,
00:15:27they believe in me and that gave you confidence.
00:15:30And that meant a lot more to me than anything.
00:15:33Losing the horse, I knew I had to give up the horse.
00:15:35The writing was on the wall.
00:15:37We were to jeopardize the horse's career, basically, if he stayed with me.
00:15:41But getting the horse back, that came from out of nowhere.
00:15:44I never in my mind even wanted a horse back because it was like you were in a
00:15:50situation where you could – there was nothing to gain in.
00:15:54You had already won a great race and the winner.
00:15:56And then at that time I wasn't in a mental capacity to even have a horse back
00:16:01like that.
00:16:02I mean, it took me a long time to kind of heal or get over it,
00:16:07like just mentally.
00:16:10I can't put into words how it all unfolded.
00:16:12So it's kind of like it was scripted and we're just part of the process.
00:16:15Wow.
00:16:16So you get the horse back, he wins his comeback race for you,
00:16:21and you've handled him with kid gloves.
00:16:23You really have – you're on top of the world.
00:16:26You run him in the Mr. Prospector, probably not his best distance,
00:16:31and he gets beat at odds on.
00:16:34How were you feeling that day knowing everything you'd already gone through
00:16:38with the horse and he gets beat as the overwhelming favorite?
00:16:42Did you just turn the page and be like, yeah, no worries,
00:16:44we're going to go on to the Pegasus?
00:16:47So the Pegasus was – we were trying to get to the Pegasus as best as we could.
00:16:52Going into the Mr. Prospector, I thought we were sitting on a winner.
00:16:56I thought he was fit enough, he was well enough, and that he would win.
00:17:01Obviously, it's a race, and I've learned over time that don't take anything
00:17:04for granted and horses get beat.
00:17:07So I never think that I'm going to win a race.
00:17:09I always hope to win a race.
00:17:11I thought everything was on track for him to win the race.
00:17:14Circumstantial-wise, no, he got beat.
00:17:16So there is disappointment he got beat, but then you start to analyze.
00:17:19We knew he missed a break.
00:17:21We knew he took dirt, a ton of dirt.
00:17:23Horses, things that he does not like.
00:17:26I think going a shorter distance, he could overcome those kind of things
00:17:30where he doesn't really test his stamina as much.
00:17:33But that's circumstances that he normally doesn't run his race when that happens.
00:17:37So to see him run that good, we were happy.
00:17:40Then we started to analyze the figures, and we waited for the buyer to come back.
00:17:44It came back 95, but it doesn't take a trip into account.
00:17:47And then once the rag came back and he ran a 6, we were like, okay,
00:17:52everything is kind of aligning because he ran a 6 in the allowance.
00:17:55He ran a 6 in the Mr. Prospector.
00:17:58Basically, it was similar to what he did before he broke through in 23.
00:18:04So we felt like everything started to align.
00:18:06Then we worked him back after the Mr. Prospector,
00:18:09and that work was a half-mile work with a strong Gallopo.
00:18:12That work was electrifying.
00:18:14He worked in 47 and change, which is okay.
00:18:17Went out the 5.8s in a minute, which is just you would say okay too.
00:18:21But then he went out the next quarter again in 24 and change, and he went out 7 in 124.
00:18:26He never worked like that in his life since I had him.
00:18:29So after that, we felt like we were sitting on a horse that was ready to fire his best, best shot,
00:18:34and he needed to break, and that was going to be the important thing.
00:18:37Safi, has the schedule now been set?
00:18:40Presumably, you are going to the Saudi Cup, but I haven't seen you say
00:18:44or haven't read in print that that's the definite.
00:18:47So tell us about what's ahead for him, not just in the next month or two,
00:18:50but kind of other besides the Breeders' Cup Classic, other goals you have for him this season.
00:18:55Well, the goals right now are that's in the ownership group.
00:18:59That's all set in my hands.
00:19:00They're going to talk this week as far as if they're going to go to Saudi
00:19:04or if he's going to stay here.
00:19:06I mean, no decisions have been made yet.
00:19:08Before the race, he didn't even have an invitation to Saudi.
00:19:11They didn't put him on the invitation list.
00:19:13He's now been aware that we do have an invitation after the Pegasus,
00:19:17and the ownership groups are going to talk it over, the Cornets and the Prince,
00:19:22and they're going to come up with a decision by the end of the week on what he does.
00:19:26So nothing is finalized yet.
00:19:28It's possible, but nothing is finalized just yet.
00:19:34As far as if he stayed here in America, tentatively, the plans would be to try to win the map mile.
00:19:39That would be a goal with the Whitney and the Classic,
00:19:42and that's what I would think they would want to do.
00:19:45I don't want to speak out of turn, basically, but that's what I think.
00:19:48If he did stay here, it would be something like that, with a start before the map mile.
00:19:54So possibly key in this situation, you mentioned the Prince.
00:19:58It's Prince Faisal, who is a member of the royal family of Saudi Arabia.
00:20:04Prince Faisal bought into Guayabario, a minority share, before last year's Saudi Cup,
00:20:10just for the purposes of having a horse in the Saudi Cup.
00:20:13He's still a minority owner, but last year, Safi, it wasn't with you.
00:20:18It was with Rick Dutrow, but the horse ran poorly.
00:20:21He finished 10th in the Saudi race, beating 15 lengths.
00:20:24Do you know anything about what transpired there that might have led Guayabario to run that kind of a race?
00:20:31No, obviously, I don't know anything.
00:20:34I know it was a long trip.
00:20:35He had to ship from California to Florida, stay on the plane for six hours, and then to Saudi.
00:20:41The horse hasn't been, as a younger horse, especially just knowing him from his history,
00:20:46he was never the best shipping horse.
00:20:48I mean, if you watch in New York, he won the Whitney.
00:20:51He was based in New York.
00:20:53Then after the Whitney, he went to California, and he became based in California.
00:20:57So he wasn't, say, shipping for those races.
00:21:00He became, like, well-climatized.
00:21:02So you add in that ship from California to Saudi, where he had to stop in Florida for that whole time on the plane,
00:21:0911 days before a race, it probably took a toll on him.
00:21:12I mean, obviously, it showed that it wasn't the class that beat him.
00:21:15He just didn't fire his best shot, and it came back, and he ran similar in the mile after that.
00:21:20So the trip took a toll on him mentally, and he needed to freshen up, and he did,
00:21:26and he came back and showed that he's just as good as ever, if not better.
00:21:31I mean, I think he ran, like, a one and a half on the rag, which is way over the super fast.
00:21:37I don't think many horses run that kind of figure for a long, long time.
00:21:41So that's why the Barrio.
00:21:43You run first with why the Barrio.
00:21:45You run third with Skippy Longstocking.
00:21:48Talk to us about Skippy and what a dude he is.
00:21:51Is he seven or is he eight?
00:21:53He and the Barrio are six.
00:21:56They're the same age.
00:21:57We've had them from two-year-olds.
00:22:00Obviously, a Barrio we didn't have for a period, but we had both of them from two-year-olds.
00:22:03To see them stay sound and healthy and be at top form, that means a lot to us.
00:22:08As I said, Skippy was always under the radar, under the radar,
00:22:11and when we didn't have a Barrio, Skippy kind of made us whole.
00:22:15He was our horse, and he carried us.
00:22:17Like, he held the ship up.
00:22:20A Barrio won to Whitney, obviously, for Rick,
00:22:23and then Skippy won our Charlestown Classic for us.
00:22:25It was not the same prestige, but it was a million-dollar purse.
00:22:28He was lifting up our spirits during that time, and he's just a cool horse.
00:22:33That was his third year running in the Pegasus.
00:22:36The first time he ran seventh, that was the same year a Barrio ran it,
00:22:39and then last year, he got eased, basically.
00:22:41He got pulled up.
00:22:43To see him come back and run a good race from a tough post again,
00:22:46I was very happy with his performance.
00:22:48He's just an ultra-consistent horse that tries so hard and just an overachiever.
00:22:54Where would he be showing up next?
00:22:57Yeah, so what's worked well for him each year after the Pegasus,
00:23:00I mean, when he wasn't coming off good races, was the Tampa Bay Challenger.
00:23:04It's a Grade 3.
00:23:05It's only $100,000, but it's kind of been a stepping stone for the rest of the year.
00:23:10Last year, it worked that we were able to go there off of a bad performance,
00:23:14win it, and then give us some confidence to go to Oakland Handicap,
00:23:16where he ran huge.
00:23:18I would kind of like to stick to the same plan.
00:23:20It's almost like you already know the route already.
00:23:23It is tempting to—California does have a Grade 1,
00:23:26and he's never had a Grade 1, and it kind of tempts me.
00:23:29He's a good shipper, right?
00:23:30Yeah, he's a very good shipper.
00:23:32He ships nonstop.
00:23:34So it does tempt me to try to go to that race.
00:23:38It's a mile and a quarter, which I think you'll love.
00:23:40It's a Grade 1, and I would love to add a Grade 1 to his resume
00:23:45because I just feel like he deserves it.
00:23:47He's run fast enough figures to win a Grade 1 on his right day,
00:23:50and that is tempting, but I don't know.
00:23:52We've got to talk it over to the ownership group and see what we want to do.
00:23:56The main goal is the Oakland Handicap.
00:23:58It's $1.2 million.
00:23:59It's a big purse for a horse like him to try to repeat.
00:24:03Safi, usually the unsung heroes of these stories don't get a lot of mention,
00:24:07the backstretch people, the grooms, the exercise riders.
00:24:11And I first caught this on your interview on NBC,
00:24:14and then later you and I talked the next day for Thoroughbred Daily News story.
00:24:18But you said that your groom, Lalo Diaz, is a huge part of his success
00:24:24and that you're not even sure that this horse could be where he is today without him.
00:24:30Tell him Lalo's story and why has he been what you consider a big factor in the success of Guaytaberrio.
00:24:37I think when you find, just like they have jockeys, they have trainers, they have horses,
00:24:43I think there's talented grooms, there are talented horsemen.
00:24:46And when you find one that really loves and has a passion, they're hard to duplicate.
00:24:50And that's what he has.
00:24:51He has, apart from being a really good groom, his whole personality just in general as a person is the same.
00:24:57He's very level-headed, very even keeled, never too high, never too low.
00:25:01And that energy, I'm a strong believer it feeds off the horses.
00:25:06You see horses and they have nervous grooms and they're nervous.
00:25:09And you see horses that have calm grooms and they calm the horses.
00:25:13So he's a groom like if you would say like you're going to a top rider.
00:25:17When I have a horse with him, I feel like I don't even have to look at him, tell him anything.
00:25:23I feel like he's just clutch.
00:25:26Every time he delivers, his horses always look immaculate.
00:25:29You never see a horse that he grooms, doesn't have the right skin color, shine to their coat.
00:25:36I mean, we have horses sometimes with some grooms and you figure like, oh, it's the horse, it's the horse.
00:25:40You can't get him to look well.
00:25:41But it's like with him, it's like always perfection.
00:25:44And he's done so well for us as a groom.
00:25:47He's won most of our grade ones for us.
00:25:49And sometimes it's just horses end up getting good with him.
00:25:53I've just seen it over and over and I can't thank him enough.
00:25:57And the grooms, they're a big, big part to a horse's success.
00:26:02They're just as important as a trainer, I believe.
00:26:05Same thing with an exercise rider.
00:26:07You've got a good groom and an exercise rider, you basically don't need anything else.
00:26:10You don't even need a trainer, for say, because the horse is going to get himself there and that's what you need.
00:26:16The groom and the exercise rider and Vincente who gets on him, he's a huge part to him too.
00:26:20So we're just thankful to have a good team and that's what you need in racing.
00:26:25So everybody needs to do their part.
00:26:27It's like a puzzle.
00:26:29And if one piece is missing or one piece doesn't have the right vibe, it's not going to happen.
00:26:33Don't be talking yourself out of a job now, Safi.
00:26:37I'm realistic that the more success I've had with horses, the more you realize that the horse is important.
00:26:48It's all about the horse.
00:26:49And then you can mess the horse up, but you can't make the horse what he's not.
00:26:54And the trainer is an overrated job as far as – that's the truth of the matter.
00:27:02And I've learned that as I get more success, the trainer is very overrated.
00:27:07It's about the horse and you have to take care of the horse.
00:27:11And once the horse is on the right line, anybody can kind of keep the horse on that line.
00:27:16Now, if the horse comes off the line and he loses his form, then you may need to tweak some things and some people may not.
00:27:22But as far as that, I mean, it's all about the horse in reality.
00:27:27There's no two ways about it.
00:27:29I've become a stronger and stronger and stronger believer of that as I've gone about.
00:27:36I've always told Jerry Bailey that about jockeys, but I've never heard a trainer actually come out and say that about your profession.
00:27:44So we focused on Saturday for good reason, but you also had a hell of a Thursday night when Sullivan Angel won the Eclipse Award for champion female sprinter,
00:27:54the winner of the Breeders' Cup Philly mare sprint.
00:27:57And it had been said whether or not you go to Saudi Arabia with wide a barrio that soul of an angel was likely to go because the Saudi Cup is a one turn mile and an eight.
00:28:08Can you update us on the plans for soul of an angel?
00:28:11Yeah, her plans are in limbo right now because last week they called and said she was going to have an invitation.
00:28:17And then after this weekend, they've told us she's fourth reserve.
00:28:22So I don't understand how it's going to go up in limbo later.
00:28:26So obviously, the ownership group wasn't pleased to hear that.
00:28:29We've been able to try to get information and we haven't been able to get any more information.
00:28:33That's all we know right now is that she's fourth reserve.
00:28:35And from last week, they're calling and saying, have her ready.
00:28:38She's likely to have an invitation, not even to say we're first reserve.
00:28:42Fourth reserve is a big difference.
00:28:45So we're just waiting to see what happens.
00:28:49Trying to get more information.
00:28:50Mark Cornette's been trying to get more up to date, but we haven't been able to get that information just yet.
00:28:55If she didn't go to Saudi, I would say she would go to the Madison.
00:28:59There's nothing really for her for sale at the moment.
00:29:02There's a six and a half for grade three in March, but it's a bit too short.
00:29:06And maybe just freshen her to the Madison.
00:29:09But right now, she's training still to the towards the Saudi Cup.
00:29:13And we would hope to know more in the next couple of days.
00:29:16Hey, Saffi, the royal family is a part owner of Wada Barrio.
00:29:19Have Prince Faisal put in a good word for soul of an angel over there.
00:29:23Yeah, related, Senator.
00:29:24I mean, we think her style kind of suits that race.
00:29:27They go at a rapid pace and it normally suits a kind of closer for say.
00:29:32So we would like to give her a chance if possible.
00:29:35Saffi, I don't want to go too far with this because maybe it's a subject left for a better day.
00:29:40But since we have you, I want to get your take on the current situation in Florida.
00:29:45The threats, quote, air quote, threats that the racetrack will be closed down within three years.
00:29:51What do you make of the situation?
00:29:53How worried are you about the future of racing in South Florida?
00:29:56And what do you think are some of the solutions to what is a very serious problem?
00:30:01It is a concern.
00:30:03I try not to worry because I always believe things are going to work out the way they're supposed to work out.
00:30:07But we also have to stand up for ourself and to see how it was said in the meeting.
00:30:13I don't think the right things were said.
00:30:15And then Aiden obviously came back to fix up the what was said.
00:30:20And then I've heard after Belinda echoed some statements on an interview.
00:30:25So I think what needs to happen is dialogue needs to happen.
00:30:28And just enforce it.
00:30:30Just making all these kind of statements.
00:30:32You need to have dialogue behind closed doors and find out what everybody wants.
00:30:35And there needs to be a middle ground met because there is a future for racing in South Florida.
00:30:41And that part about having tracks not in an urban location.
00:30:46I mean, I strongly disagree.
00:30:48I think that's how a racetrack should be in urban locations.
00:30:50Because then you have access to fans and more people will be able to come to the races easier.
00:30:54You put a track in the middle of nowhere, who's going to go to it?
00:30:57So I know Gulfstream is a valuable piece of property.
00:31:01And that's probably one of the things.
00:31:05And I have no problem if we were to move the show somewhere else.
00:31:08What I have a problem with is that they want to decouple.
00:31:12And when you want to decouple, there's no racetrack that has decoupled and still races.
00:31:17So telling us to decouple and to accept it, it's suicide.
00:31:23It makes no sense.
00:31:26And our board did not represent us properly because they never even told us what was going on.
00:31:32I mean, the horsemen.
00:31:33So we were misrepresented.
00:31:35And they've all kind of held their hand up after that and kind of said or made excuses and tried to make it better after that.
00:31:44It's like you having a bad.
00:31:48That's how I try to explain it.
00:31:50Somebody doesn't really understand decoupling.
00:31:52It's like me and you playing basketball.
00:31:54And I tell you, I'm going to retire.
00:31:56And you say, OK, well, congrats.
00:31:58Go ahead.
00:31:59And then I tell you, no, I'm going to take the basketball and you can't play anymore either.
00:32:04And then I take that basketball and I sell it for a lot of money and allow somebody else to play.
00:32:08And that's what is horse racing.
00:32:10The slots were subsidized for racing to help racing.
00:32:14So they want us to decouple and then they want to take the slot license basically and use it to build a property.
00:32:23And we get nothing out of it.
00:32:25And that's not right.
00:32:26So I believe we need to have chats.
00:32:29We need to have dialogue and we need to get this ship sailing in order.
00:32:32And that's what racing needs in general.
00:32:34We need leadership.
00:32:36We lack leadership.
00:32:37Obviously, we got how you in place now for the medication ruling, which is good.
00:32:41I mean, they've been having things that they need to work on, obviously.
00:32:45But overall leadership as far as our industry building our sport and growing our growth and growing our handle, we don't have that.
00:32:52And I think this has got people nationwide talking about it, about a racing industry.
00:32:56Racing is thankfully enough to have a lot of smart business people in it.
00:33:00And hopefully some of our owners would step up and come together and make it right.
00:33:06And that's what I think we need in general to grow our sport.
00:33:08I think we've done a we become we plateaued where we don't put enough to grow our sport and wear our own downfall.
00:33:15Very good.
00:33:16Well, Safi, thanks so much for an enlightening interview.
00:33:19Congratulations on just that huge day at Saturday at Gulfstream to win the Pegasus World Cup plus two other states races.
00:33:26Good luck getting back to the winner's circle, whether that's in Saudi Arabia or someplace else with wide a barrier.
00:33:31And thanks once again for being our guest on the gang's way.
00:33:34Guest of the week show.
00:33:36Thank you very much.
00:33:38And Mr.
00:33:39Joseph came to you courtesy of Gainesway.
00:33:41Safi, of course, trained not only wide a barrier.
00:33:43He had a horse called Drain the Clock, who was a grade one winning sprinter.
00:33:47You may remember Drain the Clock.
00:33:49It's the horse that was the very first to beat Jackie's Warrior in a one turn race.
00:33:55That was the Woody Stevens at Belmont Park during the clock.
00:33:58Also won the Bayshore and the Swale.
00:34:00And here's a quote from pedigree expert Alan Porter during the clock is an imposing physical that fits the mold of what breeders are looking for.
00:34:10And you can look for Drain the Clock's first yearlings later this summer.
00:34:13He stands at Gainesway for just ten thousand dollars.
00:34:17Gainesway power, passion, performance.
00:34:29Drain the Clock will win and win by as much as he wants.
00:34:32Drain the Clock will bound home the winner.
00:34:39Drain the Clock.
00:34:40Jackie's Warrior.
00:34:41Drain the Clock by a head.
00:34:46One hundred twenty thousand dollars.
00:34:47One hundred thousand dollars in the back.
00:34:52He's old class.
00:34:53He's champion, Marlon.
00:34:55And he's walked on the outside here with a great turn of foot.
00:34:58Palace Pier.
00:34:59Palace Pier.
00:35:00Palace Pier.
00:35:01Space Blues.
00:35:02Space Blues.
00:35:03Space Blues.
00:35:04He's danced every dance.
00:35:05He's an incredibly sound horse.
00:35:06After every run he always comes back to more.
00:35:07He's a true Dubai that goes out there and he gives everything.
00:35:20Well it's time for this week's News You Can Use segment brought to you by Darley
00:35:24where we take a look at going on of racing, breeding, etc.
00:35:27in Europe with one of our TDN European editors, Emma Berry.
00:35:31And it's that time of year both in our side of the Atlantic Ocean,
00:35:35your side of the Atlantic Ocean, where the sales are coming up,
00:35:38everybody's breeding, breeding season, etc.
00:35:41So who are the current hot stallions right now in Europe, Emma?
00:35:48Well, sort of underneath that tier of proven elite size that probably
00:35:53everyone is well aware of, you know, we've obviously got Dubawi,
00:35:56Frankel, Cioni, Wharton Bassett, you know, that are, you know,
00:36:01at their absolute peak at the moment.
00:36:04We've had some really interesting younger stallions coming through,
00:36:07three in particular actually who had their first crop of classic runners
00:36:12last year.
00:36:14Bluepoint, who is a son of Chamondal, and Too Darn Hot, a son of Dubawi.
00:36:22Both sort of really sort of made headlines last year with a first crop
00:36:27classic winner for each of them in Fallen Angel for Too Darn Hot
00:36:31and Rosalien for Bluepoint.
00:36:33He's also the sire of Big Evs, who will be familiar to American listeners
00:36:37from, you know, his Breeders' Cup appearances.
00:36:40And also Study of Man has been a bit of a, well, I wouldn't say left field
00:36:44sort of entry, if you like, onto the stallion scene.
00:36:47He's a son of Deep Impact and he was a Prelude Jockey Club winner himself
00:36:51in France.
00:36:52And he's made a really interesting start at Landweight Stubb
00:36:54with quite small books.
00:36:56And he was the sire of Calpana, who won on Champions Day last year,
00:36:59Group 1 winner for Juddmont.
00:37:01So they've been three sort of really up-and-coming stallions here that I think,
00:37:05you know, everyone's well aware of them in Europe now.
00:37:08But they'd certainly be names to note for the future because I think they have
00:37:12the look that their profile is only going to get bigger and bigger
00:37:16as they go along.
00:37:18And then we've got – the assignments seem to start earlier and earlier
00:37:22each year for those stallions who have their first runners coming up.
00:37:27And already people are talking about, you know, what their two-year-olds
00:37:30might be doing.
00:37:31We've got still a couple of months to go until the turf season even starts here.
00:37:34But, you know, with the Breeze Up sales, the two-year-old sales being
00:37:37so influential now as well, you know, the guys involved in that are very
00:37:42professional and they're already having quite a good handle on what stallions
00:37:46could be looking interesting to follow for this year ahead with their first
00:37:50two-year-olds.
00:37:52We've actually got a number of – quite a large number of those coming
00:37:56through as well.
00:37:57There's Pallas Peer, who's a multiple Group 1 winning miler for Darley.
00:38:02He's got his first two-year-olds.
00:38:04I think you might see at least one of them racing over your way with Chad Brown.
00:38:07I believe he's got a half-brother to Chindit, who is a good horse here.
00:38:12There's also a half-brother to Cracksman, who is a multiple Group 1 winner
00:38:16as well by Pallas Peer.
00:38:19Space Blues, good old Space Blues, who's a mighty racehorse,
00:38:21calls Breeze Cup mile winner.
00:38:23He'll have his first two-year-olds coming up.
00:38:25And I was on a stallion tour in Ireland over the last few days and I saw the
00:38:28lovely Starman, who's a great big horse, was July Cup winner, really fast horse,
00:38:33but, you know, very imposing.
00:38:36He covered a very big first book.
00:38:38He's got his two-year-old runners coming up, and I think they're quite excited
00:38:41to see what they can do.
00:38:42The team at Tally Ho starred as well.
00:38:44So, Emma, you mentioned Big Ev, who we're familiar with over here.
00:38:48There are some other names on the list of newly retired stallions that we're
00:38:53pretty familiar with here as well.
00:38:55Who are some of the ones you're looking forward to the most?
00:38:58Well, again, another big intake coming through for this year,
00:39:01certainly in Ireland.
00:39:02We've actually only got three new flat stallions in Britain this year,
00:39:05who are Bradsell, multiple Group 1 winning sprinter,
00:39:09Van Diek, who will be featuring in TDN this week,
00:39:12and Isaac Shelby, who's at New Souls Park Stud.
00:39:16In Ireland, a much bigger intake, and they include another horse I was
00:39:21lucky enough to see as Big Ev, who you just mentioned,
00:39:24who was looking like he really already owned the stallion yard at Tally Ho.
00:39:28He's certainly sort of enjoying showing off the breeders at the moment.
00:39:31And then, of course, slightly at the other end of the distance scale,
00:39:34we've got the last two Derby winners at Cornwall, August Rodin
00:39:37and, of course, City of Troy, who we heard so much about last season.
00:39:40They've been joined by Henry Longfellow.
00:39:42So they've got three new stallions there, as well as Big Ev's Bucanero Fuerte
00:39:49and the mighty King of Steel at Tally Ho.
00:39:52So those two studs, just those two in Ireland,
00:39:55have obviously got plenty going on as well.
00:39:58And who else have we got that we should be mentioning?
00:40:02In France, of course, Big Rock and Sharon,
00:40:05two Group 1 winning milers.
00:40:07They're going to be very interesting.
00:40:08The French team's really sort of livening up again.
00:40:10They had a few quieter years, but they've got a nice intake of young stallions,
00:40:14including Pushkin as well, another Group 1 winner at Ardobomont.
00:40:19So there's a real – I mean, I think it's a bit of a shame for Britain this year
00:40:23that there's such a sort of a quieter year on the new stallion front,
00:40:26but certainly France and Ireland are making up for that.
00:40:29There's sort of plenty.
00:40:30Breeders have been out and about on the various stallion trails
00:40:34in the last few months and last few weeks, I should say,
00:40:37and having a good look at all of those horses.
00:40:40So Big Evs is one of my favourite horses, along with King of Steel.
00:40:44How do we – I mean, you've got two totally different kind of horses.
00:40:50Have you been to see King of Steel?
00:40:51How does he look now?
00:40:52Because he was just a big, massive, gorgeous horse.
00:40:55Yeah, he really is.
00:40:56I mean, they're all at Tally Ho stud, where I was yesterday, in fact.
00:41:03Yeah, they are completely different physical types.
00:41:09Big Evs, despite his name, is actually quite a neat, compact horse,
00:41:13and he's got this great march about him.
00:41:15He doesn't look like a horse who thinks he's small, let's put it that way.
00:41:18He comes out and he's got a great walk, and he just seems to have that great attitude.
00:41:24And King of Steel is – he is imposing, that's for sure.
00:41:28But he's very well made.
00:41:29He's very well balanced and put together.
00:41:31So, you know, you would very much be considering the type of mares you'd send to each of those stallions.
00:41:39But you can't take away from King of Steel what he did on the track.
00:41:42He came so close to winning the derby and then was a brilliant winner.
00:41:49Later in the year, Frankie DeTore, great farewell for him in Britain in the Champions League.
00:41:55So he's just a really – he's a horse with a massive following,
00:42:00and he is big himself.
00:42:01But it'd be very interesting to see what his offspring are like next year.
00:42:07Well, we want to thank Emma Berry, the European editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News,
00:42:11for News You Can Use, brought to you by Darley.
00:42:14Emma, thanks so much, and we look forward to catching up with you again soon,
00:42:17learning more about what's going on overseas.
00:42:19Thanks, Emma.
00:42:21Thanks so much to Emma Berry.
00:42:22Well, you heard Emma Berry talk about some of the stallions with first-year two-year-olds in Britain this year.
00:42:28They're including Pallas Peer, whose offspring includes some connections to top horses with top trainers.
00:42:35It's no wonder Pallas Peer's first book was so strong.
00:42:38And he now has 21 two-year-olds that are out of Group Winners.
00:42:42Seven of these are Group One winners, including Integral, Great Heavens, and Speedy Boarding.
00:42:49Twenty-six two-year-olds that are siblings to Group Winners.
00:42:53Nine of these are Group One winners, including Cracksman, Anmat, Acclaim, Regional, and Light Infantry.
00:43:01Forty-one different known trainers, with the Gosdens and Willie Haggis having at least four two-year-olds apiece.
00:43:09It's going to be a very exciting year ahead indeed.
00:43:13Well, let's get back to what's going on this weekend, and it's that time of year again.
00:43:17Just about every single Saturday afternoon, there's something going on on the road to the Kentucky Derby.
00:43:22This week, the major races are the Holy Bull at Gulfstream Park, the Robert Lewis at Santa Anita.
00:43:27Aqueduct will also run the Withers Stakes. NBC, Randy, will be covering this, I believe?
00:43:33We will. We'll have eight races between Gulfstream Park and Santa Anita on CNBC and Peacock, et cetera.
00:43:42All right. So let's start with the Holy Bull. It is a grade three with a purse of $265,000.
00:43:48Came up pretty weak this year. I suppose a lot of people will look at Ferocious as the horse to beat.
00:43:54And he is an interesting horse. In his first lifetime start, $1.3 million purchase at Ocala.
00:44:00He just looked fantastic, winning by seven and three quarter lengths.
00:44:04After that, he ran second in the Hopeful and second in the Breeders Futurity, and then ran in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:44:10Ran a kind of lackluster fifth. Traffic on the turns is the comment line.
00:44:16I went back and watched the race. I didn't think he had a very bad trip at all.
00:44:19If he runs back to his very best, he'd probably be the horse to beat in here for Gustavo Delgado,
00:44:25of course, the trainer of Mage from a few years ago. But he just doesn't look like he's ever really developed.
00:44:32Not only this year, we'll find out if he's developed as a three-year-old, but he's never run better than his best race,
00:44:39which was his first race of his career with a 96 buyer. So I've got to look to try to beat him with someone else.
00:44:44And how about Burnham Square for Ian Wilkes? This looks like the up-and-coming horse.
00:44:50And Ian Wilkes really takes his time with his two and three-year-olds. You don't see them run out of the box and win by five.
00:44:57This is a very typical Ian Wilkes horse. He's needed three starts to break his maiden.
00:45:02But on December 28th at Gulfstream, he broke his maiden. Not only broke his maiden, won by nine in an 86 buyer figure.
00:45:08I think he can still improve. I'm going with Burnham Square to upset Ferocious and anyone else that might stand in his way.
00:45:16Well, in my opinion, Bill, you've zeroed in on the two horses, certainly the ones that I like.
00:45:21I think the blinkers made a big difference to Burnham Square in his last race, and each one of his starts has gotten a little bit better.
00:45:27I will say this about Ferocious. As a two-year-old, he showed inexperience and greenness in every one of his races,
00:45:36including the debut when he ran such a big number when he didn't break.
00:45:40You can go race by race by race, and he did something wrong.
00:45:44And in my opinion, a lot of the problems that he was facing in his races looked like, to me,
00:45:52they had something to do with him not being comfortable running in crowds of horses.
00:45:57I think that's what happened at Keeneland going into the first turn in the Breeders Futurity
00:46:01when East Avenue crossed over in front of him, and he shied and kind of flipped out a little bit and took himself back out of the race.
00:46:07And I think that's what was the case in the Breeders' Cup.
00:46:10In the Breeders' Cup going around the first turn, Javier Castellano took a hold of him.
00:46:15He was between horses and not comfortable and kind of had to drag him back out of there, and the horse didn't really appreciate it.
00:46:21He was between horses again around the second turn and backed himself out all the way to last turning for home
00:46:29before the horse just suddenly kind of picked it up again and started passing horses and finished fifth.
00:46:33Blinkers on by Gustavo Delgado, the trainer.
00:46:38I think what he's trying to do is obviously to keep Ferocious's attention focused forward
00:46:44and not so much on the horses around him, which has seemed to be an issue in the past.
00:46:48So I'm looking for him to run a much better race.
00:46:51But I think you've got the top two, in my opinion.
00:46:55I'm right with you on Ferocious.
00:46:57I was trying to pull up the PPs, but I'm in Georgia, and gambling is not allowed in Georgia.
00:47:03So I can't pull them up.
00:47:05I know the card at Santa Anita off by heart, but I cannot pull it up.
00:47:10I'm just going to go with Ferocious, and I believe he's a good horse.
00:47:14I know he's been working really, really well.
00:47:16And just watching him last summer at Saratoga, he's a big horse with a big frame,
00:47:23and he really looks like he started to fill out into that big, giant frame of his.
00:47:28So I think his three-year-old year is probably going to be his best.
00:47:31But as far as the other horses, I couldn't even tell you who's running.
00:47:35Georgia.
00:47:36Well, next time we'll have to get you to do the podcast from someone else other than Georgia.
00:47:42How about that?
00:47:43We've got 49 other states to choose from.
00:47:47Let's quickly mention some of the other horses in here.
00:47:49You've got Gonzalo to do on the Mucho Macho Man.
00:47:52Didn't look all that great.
00:47:53Didn't run all that fast.
00:47:54You've got Tappan Street, a million-dollar yearling purchase from Winstar, from the Avenger Group.
00:48:00Well, not the Avenger Group, but Winstar, China Horse Club, et cetera.
00:48:04The Liz Crow Group, I think.
00:48:05Brad Cox is the trainer, one-for-one lifetime.
00:48:08And you've got a horse from Judd Mott, the Bill Mott Trains, who's visually impressive in his last two starts, Burning Glory.
00:48:15So it's not a bad race.
00:48:16It's just short on accomplishments.
00:48:20I think Guns Loaded is the only, and he's not joking, are the only two actual stakes winners in the lineup.
00:48:28Out at Santa Anita, we have the Robert B. Lewis.
00:48:31This was a race, was it last year or the year before?
00:48:34They had four horses, and all four of them were trained by Bob Baffert.
00:48:38It was.
00:48:39This year, it's not quite so bad.
00:48:41Bob Baffert has three out of the five horses, but he has the top three horses in the race.
00:48:46And this is just, you know what?
00:48:47We're going to deal with every single week now when they have a prep, especially at Santa Anita, maybe a little bit at Oakland.
00:48:54Baffert's getting his stable really rolling, and he likes to use this race.
00:48:59He has Mattiquette Road, who broke his maiden last time out.
00:49:02Citizen Bull, the Breeders' Cup juvenile winner.
00:49:05Rodriguez, a horse that broke his maiden last time out by seven lengths with a 101 buyer figure.
00:49:11The two horses in the race are Clock Tower, Wesley Wartrain's at, and a horse by the name of Valentine's Candy was in there for nothing other than fifth money.
00:49:20You know, looking at the three Baffert horses, they all look good.
00:49:24I can't say that one, you know, really jumps off the page.
00:49:28Rodriguez has the highest figure with the 101, but he's just broke his maiden going against a horse that won the Breeders' Cup juvenile in Citizen Bull.
00:49:38But I'm going to drink the Rodriguez Kool-Aid.
00:49:40He was that impressive.
00:49:42That race last time out was fantastic, and he's going from a mile to another mile race.
00:49:48He's proven he can run the distance.
00:49:50And Citizen Bull, even though he won the Breeders' Cup juvenile last year, I don't think he ever dazzled anybody.
00:49:56He wasn't one of these Baffert horses where can't wait to see him next year.
00:50:00Very, very good horse.
00:50:02Got a 96 buyer figure in the Breeders' Cup juvenile.
00:50:05But he doesn't have the seasoning.
00:50:08But Rodriguez is the fastest horse of the race, at least based on that last race, Randy.
00:50:13Yeah, I mean, you've got the accomplished horse against his stable mate.
00:50:18I mean, that's really what it all boils down to.
00:50:20And Rodriguez was very impressive.
00:50:22But, I mean, look, Citizen Bull has been the kind of horse that seemingly has been underestimated and underappreciated for pretty much his whole career.
00:50:33He was the favorite in the Del Mar Futurity, but then he came back and he wasn't the favorite in the American Pharaoh.
00:50:38He was 3 to 1.
00:50:39He went wire to wire there.
00:50:41He was 15 to 1 in the Breeders' Cup juvenile, and he went wire to wire there simply because East Avenue stumbled so badly at the start.
00:50:50So he was fortunate enough there to have the right circumstances.
00:50:56The interesting thing is going to be, to me, the run to the first turn at one mile, since they're both Baffert horses, Citizen Bull and Rodriguez.
00:51:05And then you've got Clocktower in there as well, who has never been beaten to the lead in five lifetime starts, the last three of those, on grass.
00:51:14So you know they're going to go with Clocktower.
00:51:16It's going to be a learning experience for Citizen Bull, I think.
00:51:20He's shown he doesn't have to have the early lead.
00:51:22Rodriguez, we don't know.
00:51:24He's only had two lifetime starts.
00:51:26He was on the lead both times.
00:51:27We don't know how he will react, having to sit a little bit off the pace.
00:51:31So I'm going to take Citizen Bull just because of that.
00:51:34It's because we don't know what Rodriguez is going to do if he has to rate, and the alternative would be a speed duel with Citizen Bull sitting behind him probably all alone in third.
00:51:45Well, Citizen Bull's a peddler.
00:51:47Martin Garcia's riding him, correct?
00:51:49Yes.
00:51:50Yes, correct.
00:51:51So yeah, and he'll go as fast as Martin wants him to go or as slow as Martin wants to go.
00:51:57It's like riding a bike.
00:51:58He's really matured nicely and filled out nicely into his three-year-old year.
00:52:03He's been working very well, Bobson, putting him on the lead.
00:52:06We'll show that work in just a little bit of his most recent work at Santa Anita.
00:52:11So he's a good horse.
00:52:13He's underrated.
00:52:14I like Rodriguez.
00:52:16And I have a feeling that he's probably the one we want to get on.
00:52:19As far as who's going to be on the lead, I think Bob will just leave it up to his jocks.
00:52:25I'm going to guess that one of Bobs will be on the lead and not Watchtower.
00:52:30Zoe, who's the favorite in here?
00:52:33I think it's going to be Rodriguez.
00:52:36I do as well too.
00:52:37Randy?
00:52:38I think it's going to be Citizen Bull.
00:52:40OK.
00:52:41All right.
00:52:42Well, that is an interesting race within a race.
00:52:44But good to see Bob Baffert back in action and good to see that we know he will be at the Kentucky Derby in 2025
00:52:52rather than watching it from his home after Churchill made his life so difficult all these years.
00:52:57So Baffert has a strong hand, three of five, in the Robert B. Lewis,
00:53:02which you can watch with Randy Moss's coverage and Jerry Bailey and the team on NBC.
00:53:08Well, as mentioned, the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:53:12And this week's XBTV Work of the Week is the newly crowned champion two-year-old of 2024.
00:53:18That is Citizen Bull, who worked five furlongs in 59 flat in company with pilot commander this past Saturday at Santa Anita.
00:53:28That's Citizen Bull on the rail here.
00:53:30And the pair posted the fastest work of 106 horses on the day at the distance.
00:53:37Citizen Bull, as mentioned, is a candidate to run in Saturday's Grade 2 at Robert B. Lewis State, going a mile at Santa Anita.
00:53:45We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
00:53:51Be a smarter, better with XBTV.
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00:54:19PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:54:23It's excitement at every step.
00:54:27Excitement at every step.
00:54:29Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:54:33On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders' awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:54:41Plus, PA Bread shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:54:44Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:54:47Learn more at pabread.com.
00:54:51The TD and Writer's Room, also brought to you by the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:54:56The statistics for Pennsylvania breds and all the awards are in for 2024.
00:55:00And congratulations to the Warriors Reward Syndicate, who owns the stallion by the same name.
00:55:06They led in total breeder awards in 2024, $927,000.
00:55:13The runner-up, Uptown Charlie Brown Stud LLC at $735,000.
00:55:19Their two-year total comes in at over $1.6 million in awards.
00:55:25And Uptown Charlie Brown was number one in stallion awards last year.
00:55:29That came in at $225,000.
00:55:32That sounds like a lot of money to give out.
00:55:34It is.
00:55:35Pennsylvania paid awards to 354 breeders and has averaged over $28 million annually in program payouts over the last decade.
00:55:46You can get involved in the PA program.
00:55:48Just go to pabread.com slash 2025 stallion auction if you want to bid on 83 seasons in seven different states.
00:55:56The auction ends this Thursday, Jan 30.
00:56:00Get on it.
00:56:01It ends at 9 p.m.
00:56:03As always, for more information, you can call the Pabread number.
00:56:06You can go to the website, pabread.com, or call 610-444-1050.
00:56:12Well, some of the big news last week happened off the racetrack when we had the Eclipse Awards ceremony at the Breakers in Palm Beach.
00:56:18Once again, congratulations to part of our TDN team, Sue Finley and Chris McGrath, who both won Eclipse Awards in media departments.
00:56:25The show was very well done, very tasteful.
00:56:28I thought Eric Asussen, when he accepted his award for The Apprentice, was just moved.
00:56:35He was moved to tears, and I was moved to tears watching him and just the joy that he got out of it.
00:56:41So far as the votes, I mean, there's never any huge surprises in this.
00:56:45But this year, there were a couple categories that were at least close.
00:56:48And Zoe, I was a Ken McPeak guy.
00:56:52I actually really thought he was going to win over Chad Brown.
00:56:55Nobody who voted for Chad Brown needs to apologize for anything with the kind of year that he had.
00:57:01But the numbers and the Chad Brown machine won out over McPeak.
00:57:06He just overwhelmed everybody with all those graded wins, purse earnings, etc.
00:57:11McPeak couldn't come close in those categories.
00:57:13But, of course, Chad Brown didn't finish first and second in the Oaks and Derby on successive days.
00:57:18I was a little bit surprised, but congratulations to Chad Brown.
00:57:22There were no wrong answers, to be perfectly honest, in that category specifically with Chad Brown and Kenny McPeak.
00:57:29I voted for Kenny McPeak.
00:57:30I think we all did here, but it was Chad Brown who wound up taking it home.
00:57:35At least Kenny was a finalist.
00:57:37Perhaps the biggest surprise for me, and this is one thing that I believe should be changed, was I thought
00:57:43Johannes was going to win the turf.
00:57:46And I really wish we had a better candidacy for horses coming over from Europe.
00:57:55They should make three starts, in my opinion.
00:57:57Rebels Romance beat them all, and I guess we shouldn't award mediocrity.
00:58:01But it didn't beat Johannes because they ran in different categories.
00:58:05But I firmly believe that they should have to run three times in North America.
00:58:12Yeah, I've often said two is what my thing has been.
00:58:15But yeah, I mean, we've seen it a couple of dozen times at least in Eclipse Awards over the years since they were created back in the early 1970s,
00:58:24where you just have a horse come over from Europe and make one start, like a Goldacova or a Mies, or a long, long line of them.
00:58:32And then they win an Eclipse Award over some of the horses that have been running in the United States repeatedly.
00:58:37So I've always been a fan of making that sort of rule for Eclipse Award voters, but it just never happened.
00:58:44I agree with you, Bill, about the it's a much more pleasurable ceremony to go to now.
00:58:52You don't have those long acceptance speeches on and on and on.
00:58:58And the producer of the Eclipse Awards, Amy Zimmerman, deserves all the credit for that.
00:59:04She's laid down the law and started playing the music a few years ago.
00:59:08And I think now everybody is pretty much indoctrinated to brief acceptance speeches.
00:59:14And it's made the whole thing a much more enjoyable situation.
00:59:18And about the trainer thing, like I agree.
00:59:21I mean, Chad Brown had an unbelievable season.
00:59:24Kenny McPeak, you know, had an accomplishment that will go down in the history books with the Derby and the Oaks.
00:59:30I thought Chad was pretty classy in acknowledging that when he got to the podium to accept his award.
00:59:36I think the first thing that came out of Chad's mouth was, well, I finally beat Kenny McPeak in a photo.
00:59:42Referring, of course, to Mystic Dan and Sierra Leone in the Kentucky Derby.
00:59:47And I want to go back to what Zoe said.
00:59:49Matter of fact, my plans are to write something of this very nature this week in the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:59:55Again, Rebels Romance, he's a wonderful horse, but he ran one time in the United States.
01:00:01And this is nothing new.
01:00:02As Randy said, we've seen this, you know, maybe two dozen times.
01:00:05Compared to Johannes, who was five for six, made six starts in North America during the year.
01:00:11Won five of them, won a grade one, and his only loss was in the Breeders' Cup mile.
01:00:16It shouldn't be about just Breeders' Cup day.
01:00:19It should be about your overall body of work for the year, but not what you do in Qatar and what you do in the U.K.
01:00:28or in Ireland or Dubai, Saudi Arabia or whatsoever.
01:00:33So far as the North American or American Eclipse Awards, Johannes had a much more accomplished year.
01:00:39Then there was Carl Spackler, too, who also had a terrific year with two grade ones.
01:00:45Zoe, Randy wants two. You want three.
01:00:47I want two as well.
01:00:48I'm not going to be greedy because we'll never get it to three.
01:00:51So I'm going to try to say we should have a horse has to run twice in this country in order to be eligible for the Eclipse Awards.
01:00:59By the way, here's one of the ironies of this.
01:01:02Who's the best horse in Canada?
01:01:04Well, that's obviously Maura, right?
01:01:06So isn't she going to be the runaway Sovereign Award Horse of the Year winner in Canada this year?
01:01:12She won the Breeders' Cup.
01:01:15No, she's not, because they have a rule that you have to run three times during the year in Canada to be eligible.
01:01:22She's not even eligible.
01:01:24So a horse from Canada will win an Eclipse Award, but not be eligible for a Sovereign Award in her own country.
01:01:30So that's a little bit of a of a messed up situation that we need to fix.
01:01:36Well, Gulfstream Park has been in the news lately and not just because of the Pegasus.
01:01:40It's been in the news in a negative way, in a very negative way as well.
01:01:44Going back prior to the Pegasus, the Stronach Group or First Racing announced that they want to decouple,
01:01:51which means they will have a situation where the casino license is no longer dependent on them having live horse racing.
01:01:58And they also in a closed door meeting, which our man Dan Ross got a recording of,
01:02:03Keith Brackpool representing the Stronach Group slash First Racing said that if you don't work with us,
01:02:11that we're going to close this place in three years.
01:02:13And matter of fact, Randy, you have said all along, even if they do work with them,
01:02:17the land is so valuable that the three years, you know, isn't that big of a carrot on the end of a stick.
01:02:25So they thought, I'm sure they look like they need to do a little bit of damage control.
01:02:30Aiden Butler from First Racing did Nick Luck's podcast.
01:02:33And then on the NBC show, Belinda Stronach, who very rarely is heard from, especially when it's, you know,
01:02:39she's heard from when she's doing her job promoting big events and that sort of thing.
01:02:43But on the issues of what's going on with the First Racing tracks, she did an interview on NBC on your show.
01:02:51A couple of things, a couple of takeaways.
01:02:54I don't think we learned anything from these things.
01:02:57It was a little bit disappointing.
01:02:59They made a case that I thought was just, I don't know, can I call it bizarre or ridiculous?
01:03:06This idea that that Gulfstream Park's not a good place to run horse racing because it's in an urban setting.
01:03:12Well, nothing could be further than the truth.
01:03:14It's a beautiful place to run horse racing.
01:03:16Not like they're running through the streets of Mumbai, India or something like that with, you know,
01:03:21cars from the 60s that haven't had, you know, that looked like some PR person put that in her ear.
01:03:30But what we needed to hear was, A, more details.
01:03:34And B, as both her and Aiden Butler said, we love racing.
01:03:39We're committed to racing.
01:03:40Yada, yada, yada, yada.
01:03:42Then what is the plan?
01:03:44Right now you have a chance to lay out a plan in front of the entire nation.
01:03:48Tell us this is what we're going to do going forward.
01:03:50And this is how we're going to save horse racing in South Florida.
01:03:54We heard nothing of the kind.
01:03:56Even after those two interviews, it looks to me like within the next three years, Gulfstream Park, if not sooner than the next three years, will close.
01:04:04And we still don't know what the heck is going to happen with the future of racing in South Florida, Randy.
01:04:10Yeah, here's my takeaways on everything.
01:04:13First of all, I don't think that behind the scenes at First Racing, there's a lot of unanimity about exactly how to portray things and timelines and things like that.
01:04:27I think it was very much a tactical mistake to come out with all this a week before the Pegasus World Cup, for example.
01:04:36And I think there were some people behind the scenes that were advising against that.
01:04:40My takeaways from Aiden Butler's extensive interview with Nick Locke, who asked a lot of tough questions of Aiden Butler.
01:04:49Aiden said that the three year thing that Keith Brackpool mentioned was not a corporate strategy that had been a hard and fast discussion behind the scenes.
01:05:02It was more or less just a number that he kind of threw out as an example in the middle of some acrimonious discussions among horsemen.
01:05:13Aiden Butler said it could be three, it could be five years, it could be 10 years.
01:05:16Nobody has settled on three years at First Racing.
01:05:21And my takeaway from the Belinda Stronach interview was that anybody who held any hope that Gulfstream Park would continue to race long term on this site,
01:05:36I think that was pretty much completely shot down by Belinda's coming up with the urban setting.
01:05:47It's not good for the horses to run at Gulfstream Park as sort of a justification for what First Racing is going to do.
01:05:55Look, it's not that horses, in my opinion, don't do well at Gulfstream Park.
01:06:01It's not that moving the site from Gulfstream Park is good for racing.
01:06:07And I think that was said as well.
01:06:10It's good for First Racing. It's good for the Stronach family for obvious reasons.
01:06:15You and I have talked about it. The land is worth almost $2 billion.
01:06:19What I think was encouraging, they said repeatedly, and hopefully they'll follow through with this,
01:06:25that they want to be part of the solution in finding another site other than the Gulfstream Park site where Major League Racing in South Florida can be continued.
01:06:37And I think right now that's the best we can hope for.
01:06:39Yeah, there was a little glimmer of hope there.
01:06:41I still think that Palm Meadows, which they own, would be a pretty good place to run horse racing going into the future.
01:06:47But we still have a lot more questions than we have answers.
01:06:51We'll see how this plays out going down the road.
01:06:54But I was just personally hoping for a little bit more optimistic news.
01:07:01And look, we don't know. We're not a fly in the room in the corporate office of First Racing.
01:07:07But I know Keith Brackpole speak out of turn.
01:07:10I mean, that's kind of the question. We will never get an answer to that.
01:07:13But they can't take that away.
01:07:15That's what the man said, that three years basically.
01:07:18And Randy, you've been saying the same thing, that the land is too valuable.
01:07:23It can't continue to be used as a racetrack.
01:07:27We're people who are trying to run a profitable business.
01:07:31And we wonder what would be the case if Mr. Frank Stronek still owned the place,
01:07:35because he looked at things very differently than other people.
01:07:38But if your bottom line is about the profit, yeah, there's no chance that racing continues at Gulfstream going into the future.
01:07:44But let's hope that we hear from First a little bit more about what their future plans are, etc.
01:07:50Did Keith Brackpole talk out of turn or not?
01:07:53We'll never get an answer to that.
01:07:55But like you said, Randy, I also agree.
01:07:59They could have just as easily done this three weeks ago when the feature race on the card was the Florida Stallion Series 6 or something like that.
01:08:07And it wouldn't have been caught up in all the hoopla of the Pegasus.
01:08:11Look, we don't have the answers.
01:08:13But let's just hope that one way or another, top quality racing will continue somewhere, someplace in South Florida.
01:08:22And we're keeping our fingers crossed because to lose that racetrack would be a terrible, terrible thing to happen for the future of horse racing.
01:08:30Keeney and Ryder's Room, also brought to you by our friends at West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:08:34who had some good efforts this past weekend but experienced the old wide world of sports agony of defeat.
01:08:41There was the Southwest States with Sandman.
01:08:44We talked about what happened to him at the start, and he wound up running a heck of a race to finish second behind Speed King,
01:08:51losing by just a length.
01:08:52And then in the Pegasus World Cup Turf, Integration owned by West Point and jockey Frankie Dettori.
01:08:58It looked like they might be home free at one point.
01:09:01Beautiful ride by Dettori, only to see Integration run down in the closing stages by the Chad Brown-trained Spirit of St. Louis.
01:09:09This weekend, West Point will take a couple of shots at the Kitten's Joy Stakes on the undercard of the Holy Bull at Gulfstream Park.
01:09:16They have Maui Strong, and they also have Walking in Memphis.
01:09:21We'll be right back after this message from West Point.
01:09:26All the thrills.
01:09:30Fraction of the bills.
01:09:35Experience the power of the partnership.
01:09:40Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
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01:09:51Visit westpointtv.com.
01:09:55That's a wrap on this week's Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room podcast.
01:09:59I want to thank everybody for joining us, and I also want to thank my co-hosts, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin,
01:10:05along with our Gainesway Guest of the Week, Safdie Joseph Jr., and the people who work so hard behind the scenes to make this show what it is,
01:10:12our producers, Katie Petruniak, Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.