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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Good afternoon.
00:00:29It's January 25th at 1.34 p.m. and welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room
00:00:34Podcast.
00:00:35I'm Bill Finley.
00:00:36I'll be your host today.
00:00:37I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and co-host of Down the Stretch
00:00:40Show along with Dave Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:43I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:45You can probably tell I'm not in my usual location.
00:00:48I have no little sleeping dog behind me.
00:00:50I'm in a hotel room just down the street from Gulfstream Park where NBC will be televising
00:00:55the Pegasus World Cup and Pegasus World Cup Turf on Saturday.
00:01:00I'm Zoe Cabman with XBTV, First Racing and Santa Anita.
00:01:04I do have my dog who is disguised.
00:01:07He's blending in right there on the couch.
00:01:10He's absolutely exhausted so he's going to be no help.
00:01:13And Randy, you look like you're suntanned already.
00:01:16Have you been to the beach already?
00:01:18Yes.
00:01:19Yes.
00:01:20I've been to the beach.
00:01:21I've ridden bicycles on the beach.
00:01:23The things that you can't do in Minnesota where I live with 15 inches of snow on the
00:01:29ground.
00:01:30Right.
00:01:31Well, Randy, enjoy the sunshine and enjoy what should be a really interesting day of
00:01:34racing Saturday at Gulfstream Park.
00:01:36Let's get right into that because this is the biggest weekend of the year thus far.
00:01:41And we're going to have Aiden Butler from the Stornik Group on a little bit later.
00:01:45He's going to talk about in the Green Group Guest of the Week segment.
00:01:48He's going to talk about the Pegasus World Cup.
00:01:51It's a different Pegasus World Cup than some of the ones we've seen in the past.
00:01:56Obviously there's no flight line.
00:01:57Not that there's no flight line.
00:01:58There's no arrow gate.
00:01:59There's no gunrunner.
00:02:00There's not that, you know, one to five superstar that everybody gets excited about seeing.
00:02:06But it is as deep a field as you can get, especially this time of year, 12 horses, you
00:02:09know, wide open betting race.
00:02:12But you know, I'm a little bit disappointed that more owners didn't follow the lead of
00:02:18the arrow gates of the gunrunners world.
00:02:21Why not run them one more time before you go off to stud?
00:02:23The only one that's doing it really is Cyberknife and he's the morning line favorite in here.
00:02:27So, you know, the connections, Al Gold and Brad Cox, if, you know, if he runs his race,
00:02:33they're going to pick up the winner's share of a $3 million purse.
00:02:36Nothing wrong with that.
00:02:37But I don't want to demean by any stretch of imagination.
00:02:40I think it's going to be a great race and a great day of racing, Mandy.
00:02:43And honestly, the only reason Cyberknife is in this race is because Flightline is not.
00:02:47If they had decided to give Flightline one more last hurrah before going to stud, which
00:02:52after the Breeders' Cup Classic, as we talked about, what more is there left to prove?
00:02:56Even the $3 million purse of this race couldn't get Flightline near.
00:03:00But you know, that's why Cyberknife is here.
00:03:02He deserves to be the favorite, I think.
00:03:05He and Proxy are the two best horses on paper.
00:03:09Postposition could wind up having a say in this, though, because Cyberknife breaks from
00:03:13postposition number 10.
00:03:15Those who handicap know that Gulfstream Park at a mile and an eighth distance is a very
00:03:19short run into that first turn.
00:03:21So it's potentially fraught with peril for Florent Giroux and Cyberknife to get over and
00:03:26avoid losing ground, whereas Proxy breaks from postposition number one, which is a big
00:03:32advantage vis-a-vis Cyberknife in that spot.
00:03:35Those aren't the only two horses in the field, Zoe.
00:03:37They're the two favorites, but I think they're the two best horses on paper.
00:03:41They most definitely are.
00:03:42And I'm going to side with Proxy, mainly because of the drawer.
00:03:47And honestly, we all know that Florent Giroux is excellent out of the gate.
00:03:51That is one of his biggest traits that a lot of trainers go to, is that Flo can go and
00:03:57he will be gunning out of the gate.
00:03:59I like Proxy on the inside.
00:04:01I've seen some video of him training in New Orleans.
00:04:03I'm pretty close with the Stidham camp, so I'm rooting for him anyway.
00:04:08And I love the fact we keep the Joelle Rosario factor.
00:04:12We've seen a few jockeys jumping ship, most notably Louie Sires jumping ship off of
00:04:20R-Collector, a horse he's ridden seven times.
00:04:23R-Collector, if he runs well, is likely to go to stud at Claiborne.
00:04:26Louie Sires does jump on to get her number for trainer Peter Miller.
00:04:30And there was a really cool quote in the DRF, quoting Keira McLaughlin, who had to make
00:04:35this decision, saying, I'm either jumping, making like a career best move I've ever
00:04:42made or this is going to be the worst move I've ever made, basically, by taking off of
00:04:46R-Collector for Bill Mott and jumping on to get her number.
00:04:50But R-Collector could well be retired if he runs well.
00:04:53And he's not without a chance in here, although I just get the feeling he doesn't run his
00:04:57best races on the biggest days.
00:05:00Yeah, Randy, I'm with you on the post positions here.
00:05:04I mean, I think that Cyberknife is the best horse in the race, but I'm not going to take
00:05:08a favorite from the 10 post at a mile and eighth at Gulfstream Park.
00:05:11It's not as bad as the 11 or 12, but it is a definite detriment.
00:05:15And I kind of wish maybe someday they change the distance of this race, maybe to a mile
00:05:19and three sixteenths, which would negate that a little bit left.
00:05:22So I look at this thing as a total crapshoot.
00:05:25And look, I mean, you could pick any one of seven or eight horses in here and you can't
00:05:30knock the pick.
00:05:31I'll go with Skippy Longstocking.
00:05:33You know, the big race last time out in the Harlins Holiday, the prep for it, two of his
00:05:38last three races were very, very good.
00:05:40He won the West Virginia Derby.
00:05:41I don't know what happened to him in the Pennsylvania Derby, but Randy, on the buyer numbers, which
00:05:45you help make, you know, the hundred and six of the Harlins Holiday, yeah, he doesn't have
00:05:50to run back to that.
00:05:52That's even faster than Cyberknife's best race, which is one hundred and five.
00:05:55And he'll be a better price with Jose Ortiz aboard.
00:05:59But, you know, from a handicapping standpoint, I think it's you either like Cyberknife and
00:06:05go with him or if you don't, geez, you know, just just throw a, you know, just throw the
00:06:10dart at the program page.
00:06:12One of the fun things about handicapping, as you guys know, is that you can go point
00:06:16counterpoint on almost every horse, maybe except Flightline.
00:06:20He may be about the only horse you couldn't do that with.
00:06:22Right.
00:06:23So with Skippy Longstocking, he's coming off a big race.
00:06:25But can you really ignore the Pennsylvania Derby before that, when he was running against
00:06:30horses like Cyberknife's caliber and Tabe's caliber and all that, because he had absolutely
00:06:35no excuse in that race.
00:06:36He was outrun from the time the horses got a furlong away from the starting gate until
00:06:41the finish.
00:06:42That's what bothers me about Skippy Longstocking.
00:06:45Cyberknife, I think he's the best horse, but you've got the post position.
00:06:49Proxy, even from the rail, as you know, Zoe, because you're close with Mike Stoodham, this
00:06:53horse had been very frustrating to Stoodham because he has a world of talent.
00:06:58But in almost all of his races, he would be right there at about the half mile pole, ready
00:07:02to make a forward move, and instead he would shift into reverse.
00:07:07And the riders would be niggling on him, trying to get him back into the race.
00:07:10And Proxy would be like, no, he'd go the other direction until about the 5.16 pole or the
00:07:15corner pole.
00:07:16And then he would pick it up again and start running.
00:07:19The last race, the Clark that he won at Churchill Downs, was pretty much the only time in his
00:07:25recent form where he didn't pull those antics.
00:07:29Now, that was Joel Rosario and the connections with Proxy are hoping he's now more mentally
00:07:34mature and maybe Rosario made the difference, but we don't know.
00:07:38We don't know that Proxy is not going to go back to his old ways and is going to completely
00:07:43come off the bit at the half mile pole.
00:07:44So it makes it an interesting race, one of many.
00:07:46Well, if he does, it's not going to work at Goldstream Park, especially on a day like
00:07:51that.
00:07:52The track is probably going to be very, very fast, very safe, of course, but it'll be a
00:07:56quick track on that day.
00:07:58I did actually look up post positions trying to find a little bit of an edge.
00:08:02There have been no mile and eighth races run at Goldstream Park this entire meet.
00:08:08So the statistics are zero, zero for the meet.
00:08:12So I can't help you there either.
00:08:13I was hoping for perhaps, you know, the one hole is doing really great at Goldstream going
00:08:17a mile and eight, but there haven't been any races run that far.
00:08:21Historically, the stats are pretty brutal at a mile and an eighth from post nine out.
00:08:26Yes. So it has been overcome before.
00:08:29I think Gunrunner overcame it outside post.
00:08:33Didn't Big Brown win from the parking lot in the Florida Derby a few years ago?
00:08:37Yeah. Yeah. Post 12, I believe.
00:08:39Yeah. Right. So it can be done, but it certainly is a disadvantage.
00:08:42I mean, Florent Giroux could ride the race of his life and probably still would lose
00:08:46ground coming into that first turn.
00:08:48OK, so that's the Pegasus World Cup.
00:08:50The prior race on the car, the 12th is the Pegasus World Cup turf.
00:08:53And again, you know, it's it's a really interesting, really deep race.
00:08:58And again, it's good to see that all these races, these races have full fields, both
00:09:02the World Cup turf and the World Cup have full fields of 12.
00:09:05Unlike Cyberknife, who is an obvious favorite, I don't really know who would be the
00:09:11favorite. I guess Iver probably will go off the favorite if anybody disagrees.
00:09:14Correct me if I'm wrong. Now, he has post 10, but the post positions aren't nearly as
00:09:18important in this because there's a much longer run from the starting gate to the first
00:09:23turn. A couple of observations, I mean, I'm not going to pick it up, but why is Lady
00:09:27Spightspear in here?
00:09:29A mare running against boys, they have the exact, albeit for a little less money, but
00:09:33they have the exact same race for the girls.
00:09:36Does that mean Roger Atfield, the trainer, is super confident, perhaps?
00:09:40But Iver is a good horse.
00:09:41He's been knocking on the door, hasn't won in a while since his first start of 2022,
00:09:47July 9th. But it was running against really good horses.
00:09:49The Breeders' Cup Mile, the Turf Mile, the Coolmore Turf Mile, the Woodbine Mile, etc.
00:09:54I'm going to kind of go with the wise guy horse, Hurricane Dream in here for Grand
00:09:58Motion. First time in the U.S.
00:10:00And so you need to someday you need to sit down with me and help me watch XBTV because
00:10:05I'm just still trying to learn and I don't have a good eye for this.
00:10:08But you see this work on January 22nd, 58 breezing at Palmettos, and he went in
00:10:14company with the other Grand Motion horse, Speaking Scout.
00:10:18To my very uneducated eye, I thought Hurricane Dream was the better of the two.
00:10:22But I'd love to see what Mike Walsh and the rest of the Clockers have to say about
00:10:26that. But again, you know, a very interesting race, very wide open, very good
00:10:31betting race. And take it away, Randy Moss.
00:10:33Yeah, well, no, post position is not as important in this race as it is in the Mile
00:10:39of the Ninth races on dirt, but it still can be significant.
00:10:43And the two best horses on paper in this race might be Ivar and City Man, and
00:10:48they're stuck in post 10 and 12, respectively.
00:10:52So I think it does turn this race into a crapshoot.
00:10:54You mentioned Lady Spikespear.
00:10:56I think this has Chuck Fipke written all over it.
00:10:59Yes, sir.
00:11:00The owner of Lady Spikespear, and he's notorious for marching to the beat of his
00:11:04own drum. This looks much more like a Fipke move than it does a conservative Roger
00:11:09Atfield move. But even saying that, I mean, this filly stretched out in the filly and
00:11:14mare turf, the Breeders' Cup filly and mare turf, was beating a length and a half by
00:11:17Tuesday in an Italian.
00:11:18And that fig, that buyer fig of 103 is a legitimate 103.
00:11:23Did she get a pretty good trip?
00:11:25A perfect trip.
00:11:26She sat on the rail in the pocket, tipped out when she needed to and ran well, but
00:11:31now she gets six pounds off of that, 118 instead of 124.
00:11:35I think she's right in there with a shot, even against the boys and not running
00:11:40against the fillies and mares.
00:11:42Other than that, Bill, I mean, it's it's impossible almost.
00:11:46Maybe Zoe's got a stroke of genius here.
00:11:49I know Christophe Clement was probably kicking buckets after the draw because both
00:11:54of his horses who ran first and second in the prep are drawn outside.
00:11:58I mean, Decorated Invader was just beat by City Man last time out.
00:12:02I love City Man on the outside with Joel Rosario.
00:12:05I think he's going to have to work out some kind of trip, but he's close.
00:12:10I mean, if you can be tactical, I'd much rather get an outside draw than an inside
00:12:15because he can break, this horse breaks pretty well anyway, and just sit close.
00:12:19So I like City Man in here.
00:12:21I think he's in the form of his life right now, and I'm pinning all my Pegasus
00:12:27hopes on Joel Rosario.
00:12:29So, Joel, I hope you are listening.
00:12:32So can I rule out about a 30 to one shot here?
00:12:35Go for it.
00:12:38If you go back and if anyone has access to replays like on Formulator or replay
00:12:44purveyors or whatever, go back and look three races back at Speaking Scout and
00:12:51the Hawthorne Derby.
00:12:52That was a race in which Grey Emotion took blinkers off of this horse.
00:12:56Surely it didn't make that much of a difference.
00:12:59But this horse set the pocket until the top of the stretch, got through, cut the
00:13:03corner and finished like a freaking wild horse in that race.
00:13:07He showed a turn of foot.
00:13:09I was like, wow, I just happened to watch that race just for the heck of it.
00:13:12I got time.
00:13:13I watched the Hawthorne Derby and I was like, holy cow.
00:13:16Then he came back in his next start, the Twilight Derby in Santa Anita, chased a
00:13:21very slow pace, chased a really slow pace in the Hollywood Derby as well and
00:13:26overcame it to win.
00:13:28The figs aren't there, but he's going to get some pace to run at in here for the
00:13:32first time in a while.
00:13:34And boy, does he have a nice turn of foot at the end.
00:13:37He's going to really be running and he's going to be a big price.
00:13:40I mean, I would never discourage anybody from betting against a huge long shot, but
00:13:44I want to bring up one more point about these two Graham Motion horses, the
00:13:47jockeys, Hurricane Dream gets to Torrey, Speaking Scout gets Paco Lopez.
00:13:52You got to think that Graham's going to put to Torrey on the horse he thinks is the
00:13:56better of the two. And I think it will be reflected in the odds as well.
00:13:59So anyways, a huge card Saturday at Gulfstream.
00:14:03We also have the Pegasus World Cup Philly and Mayer Turf, Channel Maker making his
00:14:07debut as a nine year old going in the McKnight Stakes earlier on the card.
00:14:12But Zoe, I know you want to talk about the feature Saturday at Santa Anita, which is
00:14:16Las Vergas for good reason.
00:14:18Really nice field.
00:14:19And I just submitted my Kentucky Oaks top 10 for the TDN.
00:14:24By the time you're watching this podcast, it'll be out in the paper.
00:14:28I put Justique is the third, my third ranked three year old Philly in the country.
00:14:33And maybe I'll be moving her up after Saturday.
00:14:35We'll see. What do you think?
00:14:36I hope so. Just just don't watch her works is all I can say.
00:14:40It looks like we're going to have Faser, Justique, Pride of the Nile, Uncontrollable,
00:14:44Satin Doll and Broadway Girls.
00:14:45There is one work that stands out in Justique, and that was January the second.
00:14:50Now she missed her next start.
00:14:51She popped a temperature.
00:14:54And this is the race I've been pointing for.
00:14:56If you watch any of the other works, she looks like a twenty thousand dollar maiden
00:14:59claimer. And I'm not just saying that.
00:15:01I have it on good authority from trainer John Sheriffs because we laugh at this most
00:15:06mornings. I'm like, Justique look good today.
00:15:08He's like, does she look like an allowance horse yet?
00:15:10I'm like, no, she doesn't.
00:15:12She just doesn't put it forward in the morning, which is absolutely fine.
00:15:15She's yet to go two turns.
00:15:17So we'll see how she does.
00:15:18She's going to run against a grade one winner.
00:15:20I'll be at the grade one winner of the style up over at LaSalle.
00:15:23That's Faser. It looks like it will be a competitive race.
00:15:27I just hope the real Justique steps up and we'll see how she stretches around two
00:15:32turns. Who do you have?
00:15:33One and two, Bill.
00:15:35I, I am never a wise guy in this.
00:15:38You know, people who do their derby rankings, some horse just broke their maiden by
00:15:42five lengths and they're number one.
00:15:45I do it very.
00:15:47I like it like if you were voting for the poll for the college football, whoever
00:15:52is the best is number one.
00:15:54That's what I mean.
00:15:55I understand that Hoosier Philly has got all this hype behind her.
00:15:59But to me, I'm not going to put her number one over the Breeders' Cup juvenile Philly
00:16:02winner. So, you know, it's very straightforward.
00:16:05Number one, Wonder Wheel.
00:16:06Number two, Hoosier Philly.
00:16:09Number three, Justique.
00:16:10They kind of a gap back to four.
00:16:12I think those are kind of you consider your big three at this point.
00:16:16But, you know, Justique has been very impressive and we'll see.
00:16:19But that top three is a pretty strong group.
00:16:23The TDM Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:16:26Keeneland Sales and Keeneland Racing will be well represented at this week's Eclipse
00:16:31Awards. Listen to this.
00:16:33Thirteen graduates of Keeneland Sales are finalists for Eclipse Awards.
00:16:37There are 12 alumni of Just the Keeneland September alone.
00:16:41They are two-year-old male, Cave Rock and Forte, two-year-old Philly, Wonder Wheel,
00:16:47three-year-old male, Epicenter, three-year-old Philly, Nest, older dirt male, Life
00:16:53Is Good and Olympiad, older dirt female, Malathat, male sprinter, Elite Power and
00:16:59Jackie's Warrior, female sprinter, Echo Zulu, female turf, Regal Glory and Warlike
00:17:05Goddess. Guys, that is a huge, huge roster.
00:17:09Yeah. And you look at that list.
00:17:11Not only are they going to have a bunch of 13 graduates are among the finalists.
00:17:16Looks to me like they're going to get six or seven Eclipse winners out of this, not
00:17:19just finalists. I mean, that's pretty much the cream of the cream for a lot of these
00:17:23divisions. It's good to shop at Keeneland.
00:17:24We'll be right back after these messages from Keeneland.
00:17:30If this place could talk, it would roar, it would say, this is a racing, this beating
00:17:42heart in the heart of horse country, steady and strong beneath the roar, reminding us
00:17:50why, for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:17:57Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate to wire win in the Florida Derby.
00:18:03Champion three-year-old.
00:18:05Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
00:18:11Eleven triple digit buyers.
00:18:13Maximum Security, he smoked them in the Cigar Mile.
00:18:17Grade one winning four-year-old.
00:18:19Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:18:24Secure your mare's future. Maximum Security.
00:18:28The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:18:31Coolmore's Munnings had a sophomore stakes double at Laurel on Saturday with Prince of Jericho
00:18:36in the Spectacular Bid stakes and Elle Street Lady in the Extra Heat stakes.
00:18:41Munnings is the sire of three stakes winners and five stakes horses so far in 2023.
00:18:48No other sire has more.
00:18:50Justify had two winners over the weekend at Santa Anita,
00:18:54first with Hawker, who was very, very impressive on the turf course
00:18:58for familiar connections of John Sadler and West Point Thoroughbreds,
00:19:02Woodford Racing and Heronis Racing,
00:19:04and then Harlow Cap, who broke his maiden by four and a quarter lengths
00:19:08for Hall of Famer Bob Baffert.
00:19:11Well, I spent part of my week, it's like Law and Order episodes,
00:19:15and I've been doing a lot of this because of all the shenanigans going on in racing.
00:19:18But I spent part of last week on Thursday in a Manhattan courtroom
00:19:22to watch the sentencing of a harness racing trainer by the name of Nick Surick
00:19:26in the long-going scandal involving Jorge Navarro, Jason Service and the rest.
00:19:31And I got to tell you, Randy and Zoe, if you guys ever break the law,
00:19:34you better hope you don't come before Judge Mary Kay Vaisakal.
00:19:39She is one bad ass.
00:19:41I tell you, I kind of get a kick out of this.
00:19:43And you bring these guys in and look, you know, they've done terrible things.
00:19:47You know, drugging racehorses and endangering their lives.
00:19:49You almost feel sorry for them because just like she has with several other people,
00:19:54she just ripped Surick apart.
00:19:56She sentenced him to five years and two months, which is longer than Navarro got.
00:20:01But the whole situation was complicated by he was going to be somebody
00:20:05who was going to testify against all the other people involved.
00:20:09As a matter of fact, he was ready to name names of other people
00:20:14that didn't come up in the indictments.
00:20:16However, the whole thing hit a snag when he claimed to have some evidence
00:20:20or he claimed that a veterinarian drugged a horse of his
00:20:24and the veterinarian proved that she couldn't have.
00:20:27So therefore, Surick's credibility as a witness went out the window.
00:20:31So, you know what, I sit there and I watch these things.
00:20:33We're almost done with this.
00:20:34We still have the sentencing of Jason Service coming up.
00:20:37Looks like he's going to get four years.
00:20:39But, you know, I should be, I guess I should try to be impartial as a journalist.
00:20:44I got to tell you, when these bums come before this judge
00:20:47and she just levels them in and sends them away to prison for a good long time,
00:20:51part of me just wants to get up there and cheer.
00:20:54I'll cheer for you.
00:20:56Yeah.
00:20:58Not only would I not want to come before Judge Mary Kay if I had charges against me,
00:21:02I don't never even want to set foot in the Manhattan courtroom of the circuit,
00:21:06that district up there.
00:21:08It is one hardcore district to try to prove yourself in, I suppose.
00:21:13And obviously these guys, we think they're getting what they deserve.
00:21:17But, again, we want to be impartial.
00:21:19And we'll see what some of the other verdicts are coming up specifically against Service.
00:21:24Yeah.
00:21:25But, you know, and the story is the government is undefeated, untied, and unscored upon.
00:21:29I mean, they have won everything there is to win.
00:21:32Nobody's caught in any breaks.
00:21:34Nobody's been found innocent.
00:21:35And, you know, it just goes to show they did a really good job with this.
00:21:38You know, they covered all their bases.
00:21:40Every I was dotted.
00:21:41Every T across.
00:21:42And, you know, again, probably there's probably a better time to have this conversation.
00:21:46But I wish Racing could have done this on its own and not have to have to rely on the FBI
00:21:52and government prosecutors, because, you know, we know for a long time that, you know,
00:21:56that drug testing is really not very effective.
00:21:58And when I say we'll see what the verdict is for Service,
00:22:01what I meant to say was we'll see what the sentencing is for Service,
00:22:04because he has already issued a guilty plea.
00:22:06Right.
00:22:07Yeah.
00:22:08And, Randy, some sad news, and I'm sure you agree with this.
00:22:10Literally one of my favorite people I ever met in horse racing was trainer Howie Tescher.
00:22:15And, you know, covering racing in New York in the 90s and 80s.
00:22:19You know, he was just like, I'm having trouble describing this,
00:22:22but I think people that know how I know what I'm talking about.
00:22:25Most trainers are kind of one dimensional to me.
00:22:28They're horse trainers.
00:22:29Howie wasn't a horse trainer.
00:22:31He was a guy that just happened to train horses.
00:22:33He was like your favorite uncle or something.
00:22:36And he was really one of the most genuinely nice, funny, charming,
00:22:40sweet men that you'd ever want to meet around the racetrack.
00:22:44I think Andy Serling put up on Twitter to know how he was to love him.
00:22:48And on top of that, he was an awfully good trainer.
00:22:50I mean, he trained Champagne for Ashley, Tennant's Lark, Influent,
00:22:53won several Grade 1 stakes races, many Grade 1s over his career.
00:22:57He was 87 years old.
00:22:58He had been suffering from dementia for quite some time.
00:23:01So sort of a sad ending to his life.
00:23:04I am not just saying this to say this because somebody passed away.
00:23:08Really one of the best people you'd ever meet at a racetrack.
00:23:11Yeah, I first met him.
00:23:13I was covering the Florida Derby one year for a newspaper.
00:23:16It was the year that he won it with Bull and the Heather,
00:23:19who was a huge long shot, if I recall.
00:23:21And he didn't know me from Adam.
00:23:23And I spent the weekend after that in Florida.
00:23:27And I went by and visited him at his barn.
00:23:29And just like you said, I mean, it was like he was my long lost uncle.
00:23:32Right?
00:23:33I mean, just as kind and as much of a gentleman as you could ever get.
00:23:37And from that day on, every time I saw him, he seemed to remember me.
00:23:41And he was always there with a smile.
00:23:43And just, you know, really, really sad news.
00:23:46But a good life lived.
00:23:48Yeah, I'll give you a Bull and the Heather story.
00:23:50That's a true story.
00:23:51My record election, back in that day, there was still the Flamingo.
00:23:55And I'm pretty sure he ran in the Flamingo after the Florida Derby
00:23:58and kind of stubbed his toe in second.
00:24:00I was going to pick C-Hero to win the Kentucky Derby.
00:24:03I was all set to do it.
00:24:05Howie got a hold of me and says, don't you do that.
00:24:07I'm going to win the Derby.
00:24:08Bull and the Heather, you can throw out his last race.
00:24:10He talked me off C-Hero.
00:24:12Which, you know, look, it's one thing to pick, you know,
00:24:14the two to one favorite to win the Kentucky.
00:24:16C-Hero was what?
00:24:1712-13 to one.
00:24:18Thanks, Howie.
00:24:19You talked me off to Bull and the Heather, who, you know,
00:24:22was kind of not one of the stronger Florida Derby horses ever to win.
00:24:27But yeah, that was one of my stories.
00:24:29I let Howie talk me off picking C-Hero in the Kentucky Derby.
00:24:33But absolutely, he will be missed.
00:24:36We've talked a little bit in past weeks about the Pennsylvania Stallion Series,
00:24:40$1 million.
00:24:41It's going to be expanded this summer to three different days of racing,
00:24:45three for two-year-olds, three for two-year-old fillies race-wise.
00:24:48We'll talk more about that in coming weeks.
00:24:50But here's a reminder.
00:24:51March 31st is the deadline for $500 nominations for the Stallion Series
00:24:57for Pennsylvania Sired and Pennsylvania Bred two-year-olds.
00:24:59It goes up after that, so get your nominations in.
00:25:02Also, one side note, you know who else is a Pennsylvania bred?
00:25:05Caravelle, the Eclipse Award nominee and the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint champion.
00:25:11We'll be right back after this message from the PHBA.
00:25:14Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program,
00:25:18the best in North America.
00:25:19But we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:25:22The PA Horse Breeders Association is funding cutting-edge research at PenVet
00:25:27to detect gene doping in thoroughbreds.
00:25:29And we endorsed the SAFE Act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:25:34Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs set up by our horseman's groups.
00:25:38Just a few of the reasons why you should join us in Pennsylvania,
00:25:42the premier place to breed and race.
00:25:45The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group,
00:25:48an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:25:52With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:25:56Learn more about how they can help you at www.greengrove.com.
00:26:01Welcome in now, the Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:26:03I'm sure it's a very busy week for Aiden Butler,
00:26:06the CEO of Racing 4 First Racing with the Pegasus World Cup coming up on Saturday.
00:26:11We welcome him now.
00:26:12Aiden, thanks for taking some time to join us.
00:26:14Let's start right off talking about the Pegasus.
00:26:16Kind of an unusual year.
00:26:18No superstars, I think, in the race, but a deep, talented field.
00:26:22But there were really no superstars out there because everybody retired at the end of last year.
00:26:27Good to see you, Billy. Good to see you, Zoe.
00:26:29No, I think we've got the best of what's out there.
00:26:31And I think it's talk about a competitive few race.
00:26:34So I don't know how I don't know if you're looking for something to bet.
00:26:38I don't know how deep or where you're going to go.
00:26:39But no, I think from a competitive racing product, it doesn't get any better.
00:26:44I think it's the I think personally, it's the most competitive Pegasus by far.
00:26:48I don't know what we do to beat this, because to your point,
00:26:51you generally have a superstar or two that really lead the way,
00:26:56if not from a winning perspective, from a betting perspective.
00:26:58But I think this is a really open field and I just can't wait to see how they go.
00:27:02Aiden, how proud have you been over the course of the Pegasus?
00:27:06Now, you weren't there for the inception.
00:27:08But the fact that this really has been a last stop shop for stallions going to stud.
00:27:14Life is good. Next go. City of Light. Gunrunner. Arrogate.
00:27:18Like this is if someone wants to run their horse one more time, this is where they go.
00:27:23You and the team have to be super proud of that.
00:27:25Yeah, I think the race in itself, as we all know, because everyone watching this,
00:27:30I'm sure understands. I mean, the Don Handicap was always a very good race.
00:27:34I think by adding a little bit of the glitz and glamour and really making this an event.
00:27:40It is so. I mean, I didn't start it. I've been a small card in a big machine.
00:27:45But I think every year we've started, kept improving it.
00:27:49And hopefully for those of you who come, you'll see that there's a lot more offerings,
00:27:53not just for a racing product and a betting product perspective, but from a from an overall day out.
00:27:58I think this is going to be as good as it gets. So fingers crossed.
00:28:01But now we'd say it is a it really is a legitimate big day and big race on the calendar globally.
00:28:10Now, it'd be nicer to get a few more international runners.
00:28:14We had a had obviously for the turf race, we had a couple of European horses looking to come.
00:28:22Couple of reasons why they didn't. The primary one is it just is so expensive at the moment to move horses around.
00:28:28I think the quote was close to one hundred thousand dollars to get on their back, which is ludicrous.
00:28:34I mean, historically, it's nowhere near that.
00:28:37So we just decided to err on the err on the side of wrong with what we've got.
00:28:42And we've got some really nice horses in all the races. So pretty positive.
00:28:47Yeah. I mean, I like what you said about the competitive nature of this field.
00:28:50I mean, if you don't like betting on this race, you don't like betting on horses.
00:28:54I was wondering back before the Breeders' Cup or maybe sometime after.
00:28:57Did anyone from First Racing Astronaut Group touch base with the flight line people and maybe get down on your hands and knees and say, please.
00:29:04Yeah. How did that go down? Yeah.
00:29:06Well, Mike, I ruined two sets of trousers getting on the ground to try and think.
00:29:11Look, I know all of the owners really well, particularly Custer and Stephanie Horonis.
00:29:18It just wasn't in the cards.
00:29:21I think even as sad as this would be.
00:29:24I know, you know, they didn't tell me this directly, but just insuring a horse of that value for one more time, I don't think would have made sense.
00:29:33That horse did everything it was ever asked and deserved.
00:29:37Look, we selfishly. It's not my money. It's not my horse.
00:29:40And I've got plenty of horses who I would willingly run another time.
00:29:45But it's selfishly we all wanted to see.
00:29:47And I think we're all allowed to be a little selfish because it's so seldom that a superstar of that quality comes around.
00:29:54But I think for the good of the horse and for the good of that.
00:29:59I mean, obviously, West Point, the Horonises, they are some of the best owners and champions of our sport.
00:30:06Mark my words, as you would all know.
00:30:08So I think keeping them happy, keeping them financially buoyant and excited and it's good in the long run.
00:30:16But there was a part of me that would have absolutely loved, although, you know, a one to nine flight line running in the Pegasus maybe wouldn't have been such a good betting event.
00:30:26It would have been more spectacle than betting.
00:30:28I'm still going to pay the bills, contrary to Twitter.
00:30:31I still have to try and make a little profit every now and then.
00:30:34Talking about paying the bills, it seems like First Racing has put the fun, the F back in fun.
00:30:40What's going on as we look forward to the Pegasus?
00:30:44What kind of fun events do you have on?
00:30:46It looks like you've put on a race for the fillies as well on the grass.
00:30:49What can people look forward to?
00:30:51Because it's usually a massive spectacle.
00:30:54Yeah, so obviously the racing and the car has shaped up extremely well.
00:30:59You know, fillies and mares is looking good as well.
00:31:02The carousel club handicaps shaping up nicer from a betting perspective and from just a racing spectacle perspective.
00:31:09Couldn't be happier.
00:31:11But as you quite rightly said, Zoe, the party and the event doesn't just stop with the racing.
00:31:16We have some really cool artists playing a little bit out of my generation, even though I like to think of myself as a youngster.
00:31:24I'm obviously not.
00:31:26But Kygo is playing, who's a huge international superstar DJ.
00:31:31OneRepublic, who I'm sure everybody would know about some amazing hits.
00:31:35They're playing also.
00:31:37Each of the rooms has its own kind of designated feel.
00:31:41The Flamingo Room's got a chap by the name of Brian Newman, who's actually Lady Gaga's band leader.
00:31:47And you may have seen him before play for us.
00:31:49The guys are nice, spectacular.
00:31:52And then there's offerings in all of the other rooms, including the Breezeway and the Apron.
00:31:55So anyone who comes should have an amazing day.
00:31:59I just wish we had a slightly bigger grandstand.
00:32:01I think I say this every year.
00:32:02If I could stretch the grandstand for this one day, I'd be a little happier.
00:32:06But it is what it is.
00:32:07We're completely sold out.
00:32:09Crikey, I'm booking my ticket right now.
00:32:11I'm taking the week off.
00:32:12I'm coming to Goldstream, all right?
00:32:14I'll get you a pin, don't worry.
00:32:17I'll get you a groom's pin so you might be able to come and watch.
00:32:20I can leave one over, that's okay.
00:32:22No, we're completely sold out from all of the restaurant offerings, the Carousel Club, the tables.
00:32:29There's a few G.A. tickets left.
00:32:31And if it's anyone who's a real horse fan and a big supporter, just shoot me a message on Twitter and I'll see if I can find you anywhere to stand.
00:32:40But no, couldn't be more excited.
00:32:44As I'm sure you're all aware, these things are not without stresses.
00:32:48We had, obviously, a worry with the equine herpes outbreak that happened the other day.
00:32:53Luckily, as we do, we run five racetracks and two training centers.
00:32:58And this is a lot more common than I think the public or the racing fans would understand.
00:33:03So we've been here before and we've done this dance.
00:33:06And with Dr. Benson, who's our chief veterinary officer, we locked that thing down like Fort Knox immediately.
00:33:12Set up a full bio quarantine.
00:33:14And we did that well in advance of the state getting here.
00:33:17And when the state showed up, they were more than happy for us to keep operating.
00:33:22And I think if you're ever going to get lucky with something like that, the distance between the barn that had the sick horse in and the rest of the thing is completely opposite sides of the racetrack.
00:33:35So we're quite comfortable.
00:33:36But that adds a level of stress that you kind of don't need.
00:33:40And of all days to all weeks for it to happen, this week wasn't optimal.
00:33:43But we've we've moved through that.
00:33:45We're feeling really confident.
00:33:46And it's not just first racing, but all of racing is embracing the concept of these huge days.
00:33:52And you guys as much, if not more so than everyone else.
00:33:55You know, you've got Pegasus World Cup Day, Fountain of Youth Day in and of itself has become a huge day.
00:34:00Florida Derby Day as well.
00:34:02And of course, you're doing the same thing at Santa Anita.
00:34:05You know, why are these working so well?
00:34:07And and you know, what is the future of this?
00:34:10Is this really what racing has discovered the public and the fans and the betters want?
00:34:15Well, let me answer a couple of ways, Bill.
00:34:17So as you're probably aware, we've done this thing called the first racing tour for this year where we've taken the marquee days of the two big tracks.
00:34:24So Santa Anita, the three big tracks, Santa Anita, Goldstream and Pimlico.
00:34:29And then try to loop together a level of experience that can be expected if you're showing up at the track.
00:34:35And look, I, like everybody else, is pretty much, I'd say, slightly depressed that racing isn't quite the the draw that it once was.
00:34:45And it doesn't matter what you say.
00:34:47If you're going to get fans back, you have to get them to the track.
00:34:51It's why we all fell in love with it.
00:34:52There is no feeling like the excitement of the horses coming past you, the buzz of the crowd.
00:34:57And I think for a while, like in a lot of other industries, it's a lot simpler to be digital.
00:35:03You can send the picture, you can bet on your app.
00:35:06That in itself, to me, is never going to grow the sport back.
00:35:09Do I think we're going to be 60,000 people on a Wednesday at Santa Anita?
00:35:13No, but we can at least put our best foot forward when it comes to our marquee days and trying to appeal to a broader audience.
00:35:21We take it on, let's say, Pegasus is an example.
00:35:24We take that to the extreme.
00:35:27You know, it's a huge party and it's something that you don't see at racetracks, you know, anywhere really in the world, all of the big days.
00:35:34We really emphasize that experience.
00:35:36But for the rest of the bigger days, Holy Ball, you know, the derbies, our derbies, and then culminating in the Prignus, we're really trying to elevate that experience.
00:35:45And I think us, I speak to all of the other operators, both big and small.
00:35:50And I think everybody has this understanding now that you have to compete from an experience or from an experiential standpoint and get people back to the sport.
00:36:00You've got to offer them something that is really unique.
00:36:03The racing and the horses are about as unique as you get.
00:36:06So let's not let the side down with crappy food, bad hospitality and everything else.
00:36:12So we've got a little bit of catch up to do, I think maybe.
00:36:15I'm never going to point a finger, but we may have been asleep at the wheel for a couple of decades, but we're coming back.
00:36:21We're coming with a strong finish.
00:36:23Aidan, we'd be remiss if we didn't touch on this with you.
00:36:27We touched on it last week in our podcast, the headlines of Santa Anita and First Racing leading the way with no equine fatalities on the main track.
00:36:36I can remember when you first walked into Santa Anita in 2019 and were like, who's this guy?
00:36:42Supposed to come and save racing.
00:36:44Random English guy with a pirate boy and a cowboy hat.
00:36:47Yeah, exactly.
00:36:49I've done that a lot.
00:36:50And you came in at the worst time.
00:36:53How proud are you and your team to actually have this out there and have it down on the books as one of the safest years in racing that California has seen in quite some time?
00:37:05I couldn't be prouder of the team.
00:37:07You saw how hard everybody worked.
00:37:10Not only to have to try and right the ship after 19, but then to go straight into the pandemic and carry on that good work when all the odds were stacked against us.
00:37:20I don't take anything for granted.
00:37:22You can be unlucky.
00:37:24I own a lot of horses.
00:37:26You guys are all horsemen and women and you understand that things can go wrong and it's a high-octane sport.
00:37:31So I'm not resting on laurels in any shape or form.
00:37:36But I think it proved that it can be safe and it proved, and this was an older mentality, where there's racing, there's going to be injuries.
00:37:45And that's true to a certain extent.
00:37:47But you don't have to put up with the magnitude and the issues that were happening.
00:37:53So going forward, more to come.
00:37:56I think touching on Heisser, I think Heisser is going to carry on a lot of the good work that we started.
00:38:02And again, it's not just us.
00:38:05I think the industry rallied around.
00:38:07I think we maybe set the charge on the dynamite to change a few things and had the battles that ensued with that.
00:38:14But going forward, I think it's a great outlook for the whole sport.
00:38:18And I wish I would never, even if I could, I wouldn't take a lot of the credit.
00:38:23It was such a team effort from not only the guys and gals at First Racing, but all the way through to the back side, the horsemen, the owners.
00:38:32Everybody rallied around to get that done.
00:38:34And you were there firsthand, my friend.
00:38:36So you know how much of a heavy lift it was.
00:38:40But it does make me smile.
00:38:42And I think, although, like I said, hitting zero is very difficult to replicate.
00:38:50I had the idea of potentially opening up the main track for a breeding operation to see if we could get the numbers to skew the other way.
00:38:56But no one fancied breeding horses at the tracks.
00:39:00We're definitely trending in the right direction and more to come.
00:39:05And I think, look, as an industry, you're only as good as your weakest link.
00:39:09And I've said this many a time, and that's even internally at my company.
00:39:12You're only as good as the one thing that isn't up to par.
00:39:16The better and the more even of a playing field the industry can get on, you're going to see improvements across the board.
00:39:23And even from transferring of horses where horses go, there's still a lot of battles to have.
00:39:29But I think we're all going to be much better for it.
00:39:32And I think we can all, all of us, anyone watching this, anyone who's been involved, even on the periphery, can be proud that we're trending in the right direction.
00:39:39Like I said a little earlier, a couple of decades of things to fix.
00:39:44But we're going to be working our hardest to get them done.
00:39:47And staying on the same subject.
00:39:49And I wrote the story on the TDN on exactly what we're talking about here.
00:39:53What went right?
00:39:54What did you do?
00:39:55Most people point to these veterinary checks where basically these horses are going to be kept under a microscope.
00:40:00And if there's anything wrong with them, we're going to find it.
00:40:03Elaborate a little bit on that.
00:40:04And do you agree?
00:40:05Has that been the main difference?
00:40:07I think there's been a lot of differences.
00:40:08That for sure was one of the one of the big ones.
00:40:12Knowing that not only people were watching, but those people learning and living and breathing the ecosystem and the horses on the backside.
00:40:20Knowing when a horse moves funny.
00:40:22Knowing when a horse doesn't move funny and there may be a problem.
00:40:26And I think that constant kind of having constant visuals on all the animals out there has made such a big difference.
00:40:36But again, it's only as good as the horse men and women who will be okay with you going in their barn and constantly jogging their horses and looking at them.
00:40:44I mean, I can't tell you the battles we had early on because that's just not how it was done.
00:40:49And it was never meant to be a question of anybody's skills as a trainer or as a veterinarian.
00:40:57It was just the more the merrier, the more eyeballs, the more we can all concentrate on how the horse is looking.
00:41:04This is a little inside baseball, but how many times have we seen an animal get injured and then the bloody rally cries?
00:41:11Well, we all knew that horse looked a bit sore.
00:41:14And I'd love to. I'm not going to use the language, but maybe a little.
00:41:18I'm sick of this shit. It's like everybody knew and nobody reacted.
00:41:22What the hell are we doing here?
00:41:24So to have now such talented vets has made a big difference, but it doesn't work without the buying from that, from the owners, trainers, horsemen and everybody in between.
00:41:34Track another one. I'm blessed to have some of the most talented track people out there and consistency, consistency, consistency.
00:41:43Don't push it. Yes, it is a business.
00:41:46But if we're not 100 percent sure, I don't care. We're not running.
00:41:50There is nothing in me that will take a chance. And they never did.
00:41:54And I think financially, that wasn't an amazing look early on.
00:41:57We've proven that, you know, you'll get the fans back when they feel that you're doing things the right way.
00:42:04And a myriad of other things in between, though, some vets track everybody outrider teams.
00:42:10You know, anybody who has anything to do with the horses being absolutely professional and knowing that the worst thing we can have is for one of our population
00:42:19to get injured. It sounds obvious, right? Sounds like, of course, nobody wants these horses to get hurt.
00:42:24But having a little bit of, I'd say, extra scrutiny and not just glum faces, pretty angry faces when things go wrong has made a difference.
00:42:34So but again, it was a takes a village.
00:42:36And in this case, it took a small town, which was Santa Anita to have a run at it.
00:42:41So, again, couldn't be prouder, but couldn't be prouder of the team.
00:42:46Aidan, just on a light note, before we get done with you, you're a boots on the ground guy.
00:42:51You're probably the most boots on the ground COO, CEO that we've ever had here at Santa Anita.
00:42:57And you're a horse guy. How many horses, mules, donkeys, dogs, how many animals do you currently own?
00:43:05I know you've got your little farm down there in Florida.
00:43:09I'm a bit of a softie, right? So I take all the waifs and strays.
00:43:13I don't have them, as it's been said to me multiple times, I don't have many pretty ones, which I'm good with.
00:43:20But at each of the tracks, at the moment, just at Santa Anita and Gulfstream Park, I have my own riding ponies there.
00:43:28So I can actually go out and not only show my face, but go out and get involved and go and look at stuff.
00:43:35Plus, it's very therapeutic, difficult to get on Zoom calls and send emails when you're on the back of a back of a horse.
00:43:41Obviously, I've still got one racehorse, 34 Coop, who's at Santa Anita and he's racing on Friday.
00:43:48So get ready to fire there. Tough race.
00:43:52And then at my own farm, which is the little bit of solace I get because I do literally live at racetracks.
00:43:58I've got a house at Santa Anita and I'm constantly, if I'm not there at one of the other tracks, but primarily Gulfstream,
00:44:04I've got draft mules, donkeys, ducks, ex-racehorse.
00:44:09I've got a bit of a menagerie, but I love them all.
00:44:12And I think it makes me a little better at my job that I don't just put on a tie.
00:44:17Although I'm sure I should, because I'm looking at myself here, I look rough as hell.
00:44:21So maybe I need a haircut and a shave before Pegasus.
00:44:24But again, I don't really care.
00:44:26I know what I do and I know how much I love our game and I've been in it my whole life.
00:44:31I've served with my father, my grandfather, my uncle.
00:44:33So nothing's going to stop how much I love it and how much I need it to improve and how much I want it to improve.
00:44:39And it's the fact that I smell a little bit like horse crap puts people off.
00:44:43Well, then maybe I ain't the guy for you.
00:44:45But yeah, no, I'm definitely maybe a little too hands on.
00:44:49I think when I got the job I'm in now, I had to learn to be a little bit better of a delegator because I've never seen a never seen an issue that I didn't want to run into.
00:44:57But as you've seen, so I've got great people on the team.
00:45:01Aaron Greider is amazing.
00:45:03He recently got promoted.
00:45:04He's now SVP of operations and having a job that has that much experience, you know, not with the business side.
00:45:12There are plenty of people in ties and jackets who can talk about business.
00:45:16I need people who really understand this game.
00:45:19And if I think I've got an issue, he's the first one working while he gets out there and he goes.
00:45:24And I think that gives us as a company a bit of a dynamic that none of the not a lot of other people have got.
00:45:29I've got real, real operators.
00:45:32So it's good. But again, yeah, probably a little too hands on.
00:45:35We'll see. And before we let you go, I want to touch on another strong track, the Maryland circuit.
00:45:41A couple of years ago, we got what seemed to be very positive news.
00:45:44Maryland Stadium Authority stepped forward.
00:45:46There's going to be all this money was raised plans to rebuild both Pimico and Laurel and seemingly since then, nothing has happened.
00:45:53So, you know, bring us up to speed. What's going on?
00:45:55And why has there been sort of, you know, apparently, you know, a roadblock to progress?
00:46:01Well, I think the short answer is, and again, really excited to see the potential of Maryland.
00:46:06It's, you know, it's one of the few states that really loves its racing and it's got such a steep history out there.
00:46:13And the horsemen and women are great.
00:46:15I think the original plan when they were going to rebuild the tracks, because the way the world has gone, the numbers have gone through the roof.
00:46:23Everything they had planned for has exponentially got more expensive, expensive, which has meant we have to be very thoughtful.
00:46:30The last thing we need is to go and spend a bunch of money, especially money that we might be getting from the state or rolling other monies forward and being backed up by the state.
00:46:39We've got to make sure we do it the right way.
00:46:42And so I think luckily for us, the horsemen and women out there, the state representatives, all of the horsemen bodies and all of the people on our side are being extremely thoughtful.
00:46:52I wish you could get going. I'd love to. I'd love to see what a new build, particularly Pimlico, could do, because I think that's a really big opportunity to get the greatness back to its former glory.
00:47:04But these things, unfortunately, take time and it's such a vast amount of cash needed to invest in these places that everyone's been a little thoughtful.
00:47:12So there is going to be a lot more to come, Bill. Nothing's been nothing's been shelved.
00:47:16And the quietness has been replaced with a lot of hard work from all sides of the Maryland, all sides of the Maryland sport.
00:47:24So hopefully we'll have something to update you on soon. But we still try to move that forward.
00:47:29OK, I sort of promised you that was the last question. And I lied because now I'm thinking of Maryland.
00:47:34And let's go back to last year, a rich strike passed on the Preakness, a blow to the Preakness, no doubt about it.
00:47:40There were some rumblings behind the scenes that maybe the Maryland Jockey Club would say, you know what?
00:47:45This two weeks thing is not working. We're going to, you know, rock the boat a little bit and put more time between the Derby and Preakness.
00:47:52Anything new on that? And I know the stake schedule is not out yet.
00:47:55I assume the 2023 Preakness will be run two weeks after the Kentucky Derby. But what about going forward?
00:48:00So there's two trains of thought here, and everybody watching your podcast will know this.
00:48:04So, you know, it doesn't really need repeating, but the trains of thought are it was an absolute battle and test to be able to run back that quickly.
00:48:14Point one. Point two, horses don't run back that quickly anymore.
00:48:19So you've got the two schools, but then we've also got partners.
00:48:22As much as everybody, I'm sure, thinks that we don't get along that well with Churchill or Naira and it's a big competition.
00:48:28All of us have made a commitment to make the sport better, at least those two companies I've mentioned.
00:48:33So when we decide to do things, it's got to be done in partnership and in unison with both the other groups.
00:48:39The Triple Crown is such a special event that I feel for the Belmont.
00:48:45You know, a lot of the time they don't have a runner that's going to be a Triple Crown runner.
00:48:49So there was no there were no sour grapes that it passed up on the Preakness.
00:48:53But I think anything we do has got to be done in a really thoughtful way.
00:48:58Nothing's been decided. Nothing's going to change at the moment.
00:49:01And I think hopefully when and if something changes, it'll be done as an announcement from the Triple Crown group,
00:49:08as opposed to one track trying to do something for the betterment of themselves.
00:49:12You know, I think we've learned going back to the earlier points that if you don't pay attention to the rest of the ecosystem,
00:49:19that's when stuff, silly stuff happens.
00:49:22So I personally, I'm pretty, pretty happy with where it's at.
00:49:27We've got internally, we've got some big debates that I've won a couple and lost a couple.
00:49:32But I think at the moment, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater because for once in decades,
00:49:38a horse didn't run back into Preakness, you know, that would be it.
00:49:41So I'm quite impressed how that horse has been running since.
00:49:45I mean, it's it's been actually going.
00:49:47I didn't think if you listen to my handicapping at that point, you'd have all lost money.
00:49:51But, you know, I think we're we still have more to come on that mate, I'm sure, but nothing.
00:49:56Well, we want to thank Aidan Butler from the Stornet group and First Racing.
00:49:59Huge day of racing coming up this weekend, the Pegasus World Cup.
00:50:03Lots of insights as well from Aidan on what's going on at Santa Anita in Maryland.
00:50:06Aidan, thanks so much and have a great Pegasus day.
00:50:08You're welcome. Thanks, guys. Be lucky, everyone.
00:50:11The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group,
00:50:14an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:50:18As this week's guest of the week, Aidan Butler will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
00:50:23To learn more about the Green Group, go to GreenCode.com.
00:50:26Be right back after this message from the Green Group.
00:50:30Why do the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisor?
00:50:35We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
00:50:38Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport.
00:50:43His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge, combined with cutting-edge tax saving strategies,
00:50:48has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the Green Group the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the business.
00:50:53For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greencode.com.
00:51:03The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:51:06With some of the fullest fields in the country, and quality racing year-round,
00:51:11there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:51:18Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida and New York.
00:51:26Kentucky breads. Breed them. Raise them. Race them. We all win.
00:51:36Every weekend, of course, in this country, Kentucky breads dominate the big stage.
00:51:40The big races this weekend is no different.
00:51:43Pegasus World Cup. Ten of the twelve are Kentucky breads, including Cyberknife,
00:51:48making the final start of his career before he goes off to stud at Spin Thrift Farm in the Pegasus World Cup turf.
00:51:53Seven of the twelve are Kentucky breads, and in the Pegasus Philly and Mare turf, three were bred in the state of Kentucky.
00:52:00All right, I'm going to ask you guys a question.
00:52:02The record for most starters in any one year in the Kentucky Derby by a trainer is five.
00:52:08Todd Pletcher did it twice. Nick Zito has done it in Wayne Lucas.
00:52:11Randy and Zoe, what's the over-under on how many horses Brad Cox has in this year's Kentucky Derby?
00:52:17I'll set the over-under at five and a half.
00:52:19Go ahead, Zoe. What do you think?
00:52:21Seven.
00:52:22Seven.
00:52:23Seven.
00:52:24Seven!
00:52:25No, I'm kidding.
00:52:26No, you might not be wrong, Zoe.
00:52:29I'm going to say four.
00:52:30OK, Randy?
00:52:31Three.
00:52:32OK.
00:52:33A lot can go wrong, obviously, between now and the first Saturday in May, you know?
00:52:37Yeah.
00:52:38Well, right now, everything is going right for Brad Cox, who has 11 horses among the horses being offered in the Kentucky Derby future wager.
00:52:46Just amazing. You give me three, Randy, I'll pound the over all day long on that.
00:52:50But anyways, the latest one, no surprise here.
00:52:52Instant Coffee came back and won the LeCompte by two and a half lengths.
00:52:56You know, it was a very solid horse.
00:52:58It's done a lot of good things for Brad Cox.
00:53:01I watched the race.
00:53:02It was, you know, neither blew me away, nor was I discouraged by it.
00:53:07It was kind of, you know, just sort of went out and did his job, won by two and a half lengths.
00:53:11But he's one of many of these Brad Cox horses.
00:53:13Also, he's owned by Al Gold's Gold Star Sable.
00:53:17And he also had another horse by the name of Slip Mahoney, broke his maiden on Saturday at Aqueduct.
00:53:22You know, he's got a long way to go before he's considered a big Derby prospect.
00:53:26But Gold told me that if the horse did win that race, they would look for a Derby prep as well.
00:53:30So, Randy, Instant Coffee and Brad Cox.
00:53:33Tell us the rest of the story.
00:53:34You know, everyone knew, I think most, you know, decent handicappers knew that the way he won the Kentucky Jockey Club,
00:53:42coming from well off the pace or three or four lengths off the pace, really,
00:53:45in a very slow-paced race to win anyway and running wide as well,
00:53:51that he was going to improve on that modest 82-byer speed figure in that race.
00:53:54And he did.
00:53:55I mean, he gets a 92-byer for winning the LeCompte, which was solid.
00:54:00He had a nice pace set up in front of him, really only a two-horse race,
00:54:04and he ran down two fields to win pretty convincingly.
00:54:0792-byer speed figure is obviously not going to cut it going forward.
00:54:11He's going to have to continue to progress.
00:54:14But, I mean, who knows?
00:54:15He might.
00:54:16And that running style, when the pace gets fast, if it gets fast in the Kentucky Derby, can go a long way.
00:54:22Yeah, he had a great running style.
00:54:24I actually love the call from John Dooley as well, Instant Coffee percolating to the lead.
00:54:30Obviously, he had rehearsed that, but I thought that was very apropos for Instant Coffee.
00:54:35One note, Echo again pulled up basically at the top of the stretch under Tyler Gafleon.
00:54:41I reached out to assistant trainer Scott Blasey right after.
00:54:44They said he appears fine and was sending him for a battery of tests.
00:54:48I know that Gabby Gaudet had reported that Tyler Gafleon said he locked his stifle,
00:54:53and that's why he pulled him up.
00:54:54But he did walk off the track under his own steam, which is good news for the connections of Echo again.
00:55:00So this week, the big action in the Thoroughbred set, the Thoroughbred three-year-old set, will be the Southwest Stakes.
00:55:06And this is something I think everybody's been looking forward to for quite some time, the return of Arabian Night.
00:55:11Speaking of top 10 polls, he's number one in our TDN Derby Watch authored by T.D. Thornton.
00:55:19And, you know, this horse looks like every bit of a star in the making.
00:55:24$2.3 million two-year-old purchase for Bob Baffert and Amir Zadan.
00:55:28Goes out first time out November 5th at Keeneland.
00:55:30Couldn't have been more impressive.
00:55:32It's a 97 buyer figure as the heavy favorite.
00:55:35And he's a very exciting horse.
00:55:37And, you know, he could run through the – you know, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he kind of takes that American pharaoh route to the Kentucky Derby,
00:55:45winning all these races in Arkansas and coming in as one of the top names, if not the top name in the derby.
00:55:51I mean, he was that impressive.
00:55:52I know Forte is out there and some other really good horses.
00:55:55And, again, Brad Cox, you guys are wrong.
00:55:57He's the bet the over on that number.
00:55:59Has three in here, including Jaycee's Road and Corona Bolt.
00:56:04And then a horse by the name of Hitchoe.
00:56:06Some very interesting horses in there.
00:56:08But, Randy, what did you think of Arabian Night?
00:56:10And is he deserving of all this hype?
00:56:13Visually, he was very impressive.
00:56:15By the numbers, he was very impressive.
00:56:1697 buyer speed figure, which has been verified.
00:56:19Out of the eight horses that have come back to run again out of that maiden race at Keeneland on Breeders' Cup Day.
00:56:26Six of them have come back and run a figure, buyer speed figure, either the same or higher than they got in that race.
00:56:33Determinedly was the runner up.
00:56:34He's won twice since then.
00:56:36So it was a legitimate maiden win.
00:56:38Now, having said that, we've seen plenty of two-year-olds who have run big speed figures, including from the Bob Baffert barn,
00:56:47who didn't quite pan out going forward as top, top class three-year-olds.
00:56:54So we'll see about Arabian Night.
00:56:56He is not in a slam dunk spot in the southwest.
00:57:00He deserves to be the favorite, but he's going to probably have to sit behind horses, which he didn't have to do at Keeneland.
00:57:08He's got the Brad Cox Sprinter stretching out Corona Bolt, who is inside of him in post position number two.
00:57:15He's got Frosted Departure, who's got some sprint speed stretching out.
00:57:19It was right in front of him in post position number five.
00:57:22So it's going to look like a little different kind of race for Arabian Night.
00:57:26But who knows?
00:57:27Based on his career debut, he may just be that good.
00:57:30He's an exciting prospect.
00:57:32And he's trained great.
00:57:33We've got several works for him on XBTV.
00:57:35His most recent working with Faustin, the impressive maiden runner.
00:57:39He's by Curlin out of Hard Not to Like.
00:57:42He actually made him look quite ordinary working on the inside of him the other day.
00:57:46Bob schooled a bunch of his three-year-olds in the paddock the other day, even though they weren't going to run at Santa Anita.
00:57:53And Arabian Night was one of them.
00:57:55And I will tell you, he looks like a freaking beast.
00:57:59He came in.
00:58:00I'm like, oh, who is that?
00:58:02Hubba hubba.
00:58:04And it was Arabian Night.
00:58:05So Bob's got a great record as far as being on the lead.
00:58:09Bob's got such a good record of going to Oak Lawn and having his horses show speed, especially with Johnny V.
00:58:14He's not conceiving anything.
00:58:16Trust me, guys.
00:58:17It's going to be the California speed.
00:58:19He's either going to be hung three wide or he's going to be on the lead.
00:58:22Don't think that Bob Baffert's going to give up anything to some Midwest speed.
00:58:27So Arabian Night probably is the best horse in the race.
00:58:31And it's doubtful that Johnny V will get dirty because if he's not on the lead, he's not going to be eating dirt.
00:58:36He'll be parked about three or four wide.
00:58:38You know, you know, it's an interesting thing about this race on that topic.
00:58:43All right.
00:58:44Now, this is a Kentucky Derby points race, right?
00:58:48Twenty points to the winner, which is is not insignificant, except horses trained by Bob Baffert cannot earn Kentucky Derby points.
00:58:57So other than the fact that the race is $750,000, there is there is probably less to discourage Baffert from trying something out in the Southwest and seeing if the horse can rate because he's not going to get any points anyway.
00:59:13Win or lose the Southwest.
00:59:15So that's just one little thing to keep in mind.
00:59:17I mean, Bob's going to try and rate a horse in a $750,000 race, a grade three and test it out.
00:59:25There's rating and there's rating.
00:59:26If Corona Bolt beats him to the lead.
00:59:29Right.
00:59:30And then they also go with McPeak's horse right inside of him.
00:59:34Then does Johnny V decide, do I want to get caught in a speed duel with Corona Bolt, who just ran his own 97 buyer speed figure in a sprint stakes at the fairgrounds?
00:59:44Or do I want to just ease him back a little bit like they did with American Pharaoh in the Arkansas Derby for the first time in his career?
00:59:51So it's just an interesting thought.
00:59:53Yeah.
00:59:54Speaking of Baffert, this new wrinkle has been thrown in.
00:59:56He mentioned Randy.
00:59:57Well, he won't be getting any Derby points.
00:59:59Last year, the way to go was obvious.
01:00:03You could wait till the last set of preps, because if you run first, second or third in the San Diego Derby, Arkansas Derby, you'd have more than enough points to get into the Kentucky Derby.
01:00:12So he didn't have to turn his horses over to Tim Yatien or whoever else was chosen to train them until that last set of preps.
01:00:20I don't know where this came from.
01:00:21Dave Grenny did a good reporting job to break the story that now they're informing Baffert that that by February 28th, if these horses aren't transferred out of his barn by then, then they won't earn any Derby points so that now he won't get in.
01:00:36If he if Baffert is still the trainer of record of these horses in that penultimate set of preps at San Felipe, the rebel stakes, whatnot, they won't earn points in that either.
01:00:46So it looks like now he's still fighting in court, which is a long shot to see if he can't get some of this overturned.
01:00:52I don't really know where this came from or why.
01:00:54I don't know why the rules are different this year than they were last year.
01:00:58But as things stand now, we may see these horses in someone else's barn sooner rather than later.
01:01:04Yeah, I know it's a cliche, but what Churchill Downs has done is known as moving the goalposts, right?
01:01:10There is no love lost since there's still legal action going on and pretty bitter legal action between Baffert and Churchill Downs and their attorneys.
01:01:18Yeah, that that's exactly what it is.
01:01:20They saw what happened last year and they're going to ensure it doesn't happen this year.
01:01:23It's as simple as that.
01:01:25Bob has no comment.
01:01:26I think they have a court date on February 2nd and we'll know more after that.
01:01:31The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:01:35The XBTV.com Workout of the Week is simplification seen working here at Goldstream Park in a minute and one fifth second.
01:01:44The trainer Antonio Serno.
01:01:46And yes, I said Goldstream.
01:01:48We have workouts at Goldstream and Santa Anita.
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01:03:14West Point had a couple of nice winners over the weekend.
01:03:17Hawker, who we mentioned earlier, broke his maiden at Santa Anita on Saturday.
01:03:22Callie Gostro won second time out for Cherie Devoe at the fairgrounds on Saturday.
01:03:27Best of luck to all West Point owners this weekend as they have Decorated Invader running in the Pegasus turf.
01:03:33And Jace's Road will take on Arabian Night in the southwest.
01:03:38And this week's Remy Balac-Hartu, which runs in every Friday's TDN is in.
01:03:42And he's picking up. We're talking about my being in a courtroom last week.
01:03:46Well, Pegasus, the real Pegasus, the one with the big wings and everything, is in a courtroom and on the witness stand.
01:03:53And it appears that he's not happy that Gulfstream Park named the race after him, perhaps without compensating him.
01:03:59So in the world we live in now with lawsuits and branding and all that, anything is possible.
01:04:05But Remy delivers another gem.
01:04:07Well, that's a wrap on this week's Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room podcast.
01:04:11I want to thank my crew, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin, along with our Green Group Guest of the Week, Aidan Butler.
01:04:17Of course, we also want to thank our associate producer, Katie Petuniak, our producer, Patty Wolf, and our editors, Leah LaRocca, Anthony LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:04:26Have a great Pegasus weekend, everybody. We'll be back next week.