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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:31I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, and I just got back from a week in sunny
00:00:37Florida.
00:00:38I hope you guys got along without me.
00:00:39Hey, we did.
00:00:41Somehow we managed.
00:00:42I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:44Just hired a personal trainer.
00:00:46I'll be trying out for the quarterback position of the Minnesota Vikings.
00:00:49I know I'm a big long shot, but hey, I'll settle for 1% of what Kirk Cousins will be
00:00:54making next year for the Atlanta Falcons.
00:00:56Yeah, really?
00:00:571%?
00:00:58I'll take like a 10th of that.
00:01:01I'll be just fine on that.
00:01:02I'm Zoe Cameron with First Racing and Santa Anita.
00:01:05I am here in one of the palatious conference rooms at the OBS sales in front of me.
00:01:13We have started selling horses already.
00:01:15Today is Tuesday.
00:01:17The sun is shining, and it is absolutely glorious here.
00:01:21All right, guys.
00:01:23Last weekend, especially for this time of year, not a lot in particular going on, but
00:01:28we did have the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:01:32The story that people are going to remember from the Tampa Bay Derby was he couldn't bet
00:01:35on the damn thing.
00:01:36We're going to save that for a little bit later.
00:01:38First, we're just going to discuss the race.
00:01:42Domestic product wins for Chad Brown in a very thrilling finish.
00:01:46Got only an 82 buyer.
00:01:48He did come from not well off the pace, but a little bit off the pace, very, very slow
00:01:54fractions.
00:01:55I try never to underestimate a Chad Brown horse, but it doesn't look like considering
00:02:02the speed figure and the quality of the field, he really belongs in the top tier for the
00:02:07thoroughbreds of going into the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:10Ooh, I'm going to disagree with you, but you go first, Randy.
00:02:14No, go ahead, Zoe.
00:02:15I want to hear yours.
00:02:16Go ahead, Zoe.
00:02:17Okay.
00:02:18I think he's a good horse.
00:02:19He's a homebred for Claravich.
00:02:22That was a really, really good race for him.
00:02:26They took the blinkers off in his start before he was still a little bit rank.
00:02:29He managed to settle off the pace.
00:02:32Tyler Gafleon always had horse.
00:02:33It was just a question of somewhere to go.
00:02:35Now, Javier Castellano on no more time should have gone on, should have gone on.
00:02:41I mean, they went 25 and one, 51, 116 and one, and when he clocked off that three quarters
00:02:48in a two-minute lick in 116, he should have pressed the button and gone on.
00:02:52I'm not sure domestic product would have caught no more time for Rich Mendes racing, but domestic
00:02:59product got through.
00:03:01If you watch them come down the lane, he's twice the size of no more time.
00:03:07I love the fact he relaxed.
00:03:09I liked his acceleration.
00:03:11It was a slowly run race, didn't get it big by a speed figure, but I firmly believe he
00:03:16is a good horse with more to come because he's still figuring things out and he is beautiful.
00:03:22Well, Zoe, can I just, the thing that you hear whenever there's a race like this, and
00:03:28I agree with everything you said, but who did he beat?
00:03:32It's not a strong field.
00:03:34I know, but he can't help who he ran against.
00:03:37It was a learning experience for him, in my opinion, and no more time.
00:03:44I know that the connections, Rich Mendes, who may be the most interesting man in horse
00:03:49racing, by the way, we're going to get him on this podcast one of these days.
00:03:53They were not real happy with the ride.
00:03:56They wish he'd have gone on.
00:03:58They're very happy they garnered some points and they're going to try and send no more
00:04:01time to the Derby with 45 points and no more runs, but I'm just looking at the optics of
00:04:07the race and how good domestic product ran after actually finally settling in a race.
00:04:15And I actually ran into Chad Brown here at the sale and he was delighted with him.
00:04:19He's a good horse.
00:04:21Randy break the tie.
00:04:22Well, you know, I'm a buyer speed figure guy.
00:04:27Obviously, I helped make the buyer speed figures, but I have no problem in this particular situation
00:04:31saying that in a race like the Tampa Bay Derby, the way it was run, you have to take the buyer
00:04:37speed figure with a grain of salt.
00:04:39I won't say it's completely irrelevant, but when you go 25.25 for the quarter, 51.14 for
00:04:47the half and 116.21 for six furlongs, that doesn't really lend itself to any kind of
00:04:55a fast buyer speed figure.
00:04:57It was run like a turf race, let's face it.
00:05:00And we see turf races time and time again with very close margins at the end because
00:05:06horses don't really have time to separate that much.
00:05:09They're only asked to run for about the final quarter of a mile and much to the connections
00:05:13of no more time chagrin.
00:05:15That's exactly what happened in the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:05:18All the riders just sat there until the quarter pole and then went on with it.
00:05:21And as a result, you had a blanket finish at the end.
00:05:24I think domestic product is potentially a really nice horse.
00:05:29I like the way he strided out in the final quarter mile.
00:05:33They all finished fast in the final quarter mile.
00:05:35The race itself went 23 and one for the final quarter.
00:05:39But we didn't learn much, in my opinion, from the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:05:43I think what we're really going to learn about domestic product is going to be what we see
00:05:48in either the Bluegrass Stakes or the Wood Memorial, whichever race that they will use
00:05:54for the final prep.
00:05:55And hopefully it'll be a little bit more of a truly run race than the Tampa Bay Derby
00:06:00was.
00:06:01They're passing the prep for no more time, as Zoey mentioned, primarily because he's
00:06:07a smallish horse, obviously much smaller than domestic product.
00:06:11They said after the Sam Davis that that race took a lot out of him and that he was going
00:06:16to have to bounce back from that.
00:06:18So he's not really the type of horse that they want to give one more race to between
00:06:23the Tampa Bay Derby and the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:25As far as his prospects for going on a mile and a quarter, it's interesting.
00:06:30He's by the sire Practical Joke.
00:06:33So domestic product has already one-upped his stallion, who never won a race around
00:06:37two turns.
00:06:39Domestic product has now won twice around two turns, including a mile and an eight.
00:06:44The two highest earning offspring of Practical Joke are Tejano Twist and Skelly, who are
00:06:52both sprinters.
00:06:54But last year, if you recall, the Santa Anita Derby winner Practical Move was a son of Practical
00:07:00Joke.
00:07:01And it certainly appeared like distance was going to be no problem for Practical Move.
00:07:05So pedigree-wise, I think the jury is still out.
00:07:08But I can't really break the tie, Bill.
00:07:10I'm going to wait until the bluegrass or the wood, when we can learn a little bit more
00:07:15about the horse.
00:07:16All right, fair enough.
00:07:17And of course, the other story is Chad Brown, who normally is not a very strong Kentucky
00:07:22Derby trainer.
00:07:25He's just not Bob Baffert or Todd Pletcher, but he's got at least two horses, including
00:07:29Sierra Leone, who is very impressive in the Risen Star.
00:07:33So we'll see how Chad does on the road to the Kentucky Derby.
00:07:36OK, so let's head out to the West Coast, where there was not a Kentucky Derby prep race this
00:07:41weekend, but there was a Kentucky Oaks prep race.
00:07:45But I have to put air quotes around that, because here we go again.
00:07:50The horse that won looks like a special horse, Kinza.
00:07:54She's three for three.
00:07:55She annihilates her competition every single time she runs.
00:07:59At this point in time, I think she's clearly the number one filly in the country.
00:08:04And because Churchill Downs did something stupid and banned Bob Baffert, an extra year
00:08:09above and beyond an already very serious punishment, they're not going to have the best.
00:08:17In Nysos, they're probably not going to have the best three-year-old colt in the Kentucky
00:08:20Derby.
00:08:21Kinza, they're probably not going to have the best three-year-old filly in the Kentucky
00:08:26Oaks.
00:08:27It's just a shame.
00:08:28I mean, to think these great races are not going to bring together all the horses that
00:08:33belong in them because, you know, Baffert is so strong.
00:08:35Kinza's good.
00:08:36She's good, but she runs hot.
00:08:39And she ran hot again in the Las Vergenas.
00:08:44And she's still I mean, she's not really beating anything, let's be perfectly honest, but she's
00:08:48doing it very easily.
00:08:49We'll have to see.
00:08:52The jury is still out with me on the daughter of Carpe Diem.
00:08:55She was sold for $350,000.
00:08:57They paid $30,000 for her.
00:08:58Dave McCathin's Grassroots consigned her at the Maryland sale, the Fraser-Tipton Maryland
00:09:03sale last year.
00:09:05And she's quick and she's never been headed around two turns.
00:09:09But she does run hot.
00:09:10I'll give her that much.
00:09:12So Bob's been able to keep the boil off her like she hasn't boiled over just yet, which
00:09:17is great.
00:09:21You know, I don't want to overdose people on speed figure talk, but, you know, there
00:09:27are a lot of handicappers out there that pay a lot of attention to speed figures, buyer
00:09:31speed figures and others.
00:09:33And since we talked about the Tampa Bay Derby having a suppressed speed figure primarily
00:09:37because of the pace, I can also tell you, you have to judge speed figures by the way
00:09:42they're run, the way the races are run.
00:09:44In this case, Kinza got a buyer speed figure of, I believe, 92.
00:09:50And it was also suppressed a little bit, I think, by the fractions that Kinza set.
00:09:56Just the opposite of the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:09:58She went 22.52, 45.98.
00:10:02She's not going to keep running at that pace.
00:10:06She's going to slow down a little bit.
00:10:08And still, she earned a 92 buyer.
00:10:10She absolutely ran the horses that were right behind her completely out of the race.
00:10:15I mean, they all came back with suppressed numbers compared to what they had been running
00:10:20because they just couldn't keep up that tempo.
00:10:23So I think even though she gets a 92 buyer speed figure down the road, you can look at
00:10:26that race as more like a 97 or a 98 from a handicapping perspective, because I think
00:10:32that's kind of the quality of the race that she ran.
00:10:35If the Kentucky Oaks were going to be run in three weeks or a month and she was in it,
00:10:40I think she'd be a four to five or an even money favorite.
00:10:43And I think it's very unfortunate that she's not going to be able to run.
00:10:47It appears right now, we'll have more on this later, maybe Churchill Lounds might be catching
00:10:53a little bit of a break in the NYSOS department based on his workout schedule.
00:10:59He's now missed two published workouts since his last official workout.
00:11:04There's something going on there with NYSOS.
00:11:07We'll probably hear more about that coming up.
00:11:09Hopefully it's not something that, you know, too terribly bad.
00:11:12It's not like they're having to press him to make the Kentucky Derby.
00:11:15They can afford to take their time with him a little bit more, but we'll see what's going
00:11:20on with NYSOS probably in the next few weeks.
00:11:24Now let's turn our attention to the Beholder Mile, a grade one on the Saturday card at
00:11:28Santa Anita and Adair Manor for Baffert has been so consistent over the years and she's
00:11:34so tough.
00:11:35She ran a good race.
00:11:36She ran second, but she got beat by a horse that I think we're going to probably hear
00:11:40more from this year, Sweet Azteca, who got a hundred and three buyer.
00:11:45I wonder if she's the fastest horse of the week, but don't spoil that yet, Randy, for
00:11:49us with a hundred and three buyer.
00:11:52And the thing about her was she was very lightly raced and this was her first start around
00:11:56two turns.
00:11:57So she had some obstacles in her way.
00:11:59She handled them quite well.
00:12:02And right now she looks like maybe she's better than Adair Manor, but we'll see those two
00:12:07horses perhaps hook up again through the big races for older fillies and mayors out in
00:12:13Southern California.
00:12:15But Sweet Azteca looks like a pretty decent prospect.
00:12:17Yeah, she got the jump on Adair Manor.
00:12:20She certainly did.
00:12:21She's got a little bit of zip to her.
00:12:23If you remember, Michael McCarthy won this race back in 2020 with CeCe.
00:12:28And I don't think we've seen the best of Sweet Azteca yet.
00:12:32There's a lot more under the hood, or the bonnet, should I say.
00:12:35Do you know what a bonnet is, Randy?
00:12:37Yes, I have been to London.
00:12:39I know what a windscreen is.
00:12:41I know what a loo is and I know what a bonnet is.
00:12:44Yes.
00:12:45What about a boot?
00:12:46Do you know what a boot is?
00:12:47No.
00:12:48That's the trunk, right?
00:12:49Yes.
00:12:50Very good.
00:12:51Yeah.
00:12:52Wow.
00:12:53I like that.
00:12:54We have another Anglophile.
00:12:57I'm outnumbered.
00:12:58All right.
00:12:59Let's talk about Keeneland.
00:13:02The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:13:05Entries are now open for the 2024 April of Horses Racing Age sale.
00:13:10The sale will be held on Friday, April the 26th, after the races on closing day of the
00:13:16Spring Meet.
00:13:17Entry deadline for the print catalog is April the 1st.
00:13:20Prices will continue to be considered until the sales day.
00:13:23We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:13:27At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:13:38Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:13:46Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:13:50Not for our sake, but for theirs.
00:13:53For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:13:59This week, our Fastest Horse of the Week segment is being brought to you by Audible.
00:14:03One of those fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:14:05As a three-year-old, Audible hit the board in all five of his starts, and those were
00:14:09all stakes races.
00:14:10He won three of them, including the Florida Derby and the Holy Bull, and ran third in
00:14:14the Kentucky Derby.
00:14:15And Audible's Holy Bull time of 141.92 for a mile on the 16th was the fastest in that
00:14:21race since 2013.
00:14:23And now, Audible is off to a great start at Stud.
00:14:27He's the leading second crop sire by earnings, by black-type winners, by graded stakes winners,
00:14:32by graded stakes horses, and by winners.
00:14:35And best of all, you can get all that for just $15,000 at Windstar Farm.
00:14:42Now, for the Fastest Horse of the Week, I appreciate it very much that Bill didn't spoil
00:14:46it.
00:14:47It is Sweet Azteca with her 103 buyer speed figure in that B. Wayne Hughes Beholder Mile.
00:14:53That ranks as the fastest buyer by any female racehorse thus far in 2024.
00:15:00And by the way, I'm very proud of my filly, Adair Manor, for her gallant effort in defeat.
00:15:06She ran the race of her life in the Beholder Mile, and still couldn't beat Sweet Azteca.
00:15:12One note here, Sweet Azteca, owned by Pamela Zybarth, she traces back to that family's
00:15:18sensational broodmare, Seas Tizzy, who was Sweet Azteca's fourth dam, or Seas Song, rather.
00:15:25Seas Song, who was Sweet Azteca's fourth dam.
00:15:28Seas Song produced Tis Now, produced Bud Royale.
00:15:32The full sister of Tis Now was called Tis Sweet.
00:15:36That's Sweet Azteca's third dam, so it's a big family affair.
00:15:40All those big horses, Seas Song, Tis Now, Tis Sweet, Bud Royale, were all bred by Pamela
00:15:45Zybarth's mother, the late Cecilia Straub-Grubin.
00:15:49So congratulations to Pamela Zybarth and to Sweet Azteca, this week's Fastest Horse of
00:15:54the Week.
00:15:56Did Randy just go down the rabbit hole in the Fastest Horse of the Week?
00:16:02I did.
00:16:03He just can't watch the film, Zoe.
00:16:06No, I clawed my way back out of it at the end, but yes, I did.
00:16:11Yeah, the fifth dam on the cross of this or that ran a big buyer back in 1973.
00:16:17Fifth dam?
00:16:18Let me see if I can find the fifth dam.
00:16:20I've got it here somewhere.
00:16:23All right, so let's get back to Tampa Bay Downs.
00:16:25And like I said, the story that people remember more so than the race was that it was a race
00:16:30you couldn't bet on.
00:16:31And what happened was there was a, and all this techno stuff gets me a little bit confused,
00:16:37but there was a breakdown in the company that carries, that transmits the information back
00:16:46and forth.
00:16:47So when you make a bet, if Randy makes a bet at Canterbury Downs on the Tampa Bay Derby,
00:16:52it first goes to the tote company, in this case, Amtote, and then Roberts Communications
00:16:58transmits it from Amtote to the track for the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:17:03You know, we've all had it.
00:17:04We've had our internet go out and, you know, there's nothing you can do about it other
00:17:09than just be frustrated and wait for it to come back on.
00:17:12But, you know, it was a huge deal because, first of all, Tampa Bay Downs is one of those
00:17:18tracks that has no outside income from slots or casinos or anything like that.
00:17:23The general manager, Peter Berube, said that this cost him four and a half million dollars
00:17:28in handle, and he has called for an investigation.
00:17:31He was not pleased.
00:17:32So as I wrote in the TDN, you can't blame Amtote.
00:17:37You can't blame Roberts Communications.
00:17:39You can't blame Tampa Bay Downs.
00:17:41Having said that, why is it these things always happen in horse racing?
00:17:45And, you know, we had the other problem recently where the guys were making the bets on FanDuel
00:17:50where you could box 20 horses for a 10 cent super effect and all they charge in your account
00:17:56was 10 cents.
00:17:57I realize these aren't easy problems to fix, but, Randy, it reminds me of all the things
00:18:01you and I used to talk about and write about, but the horrible timing system of GPS.
00:18:08It's 2024.
00:18:11Time the race is right and don't ever have a situation where there's no betting,
00:18:16particularly on a big race.
00:18:19People smarter than me, people that make a lot more money than me, need to get together
00:18:23and figure out how this will never happen again.
00:18:25Yeah.
00:18:26And, you know, they're turning over every rock right now with Roberts Communications,
00:18:30with Amtote to try to figure out what the heck was going on.
00:18:34There were still some issues with the communications on Sunday that Amtote was able to work around
00:18:41and create a patch for.
00:18:43So hopefully this is one of those situations where this will, you know, the end result
00:18:49will be maybe a little bit more betting security and a little bit less likely that some of
00:18:54this might happen in the future.
00:18:56One thing that I didn't really understand about the whole thing, and I still don't,
00:19:01I tried to put in an email to Peter Berube, but he didn't respond or hasn't yet.
00:19:06And a lot of horseplayers didn't really understand this as well.
00:19:10There were daily doubles, pick threes, pick fours, and pick fives that all ended with
00:19:18the Tampa Bay Derby, which means they had been placed before the outage, before the
00:19:24malfunction.
00:19:25And yet it was a decision by Tampa Bay Downs as a house rule, so to speak, to treat the
00:19:32Tampa Bay Derby result as all.
00:19:36So a pick five, for example, that ended with the Tampa Bay Derby, if you had single domestic
00:19:43product and you were in line for a nice payoff, and you obviously had that bet in five races
00:19:49earlier, and suddenly it's paid off with all in the Tampa Bay Derby instead of domestic
00:19:54product.
00:19:55I don't really understand why.
00:19:59I'm going to assume that it's just because they couldn't get the communication about
00:20:05all the other bets that were placed.
00:20:07As we all know, 90% of the bets nowadays in this country at any racetrack on any given
00:20:11day are placed remotely, a lot of those by ADWs.
00:20:15And maybe with the communication, they couldn't quite get everything in line within a certain
00:20:20amount of time that they felt like they needed to have the results posted.
00:20:25But anyway, that was a real unusual part of this whole equation that I know a lot of horse
00:20:31players out there were frustrated about.
00:20:34But hey, horse players get frustrated all the time, right guys?
00:20:37Yeah, they certainly do.
00:20:39And there were an awful lot of frustrated ones.
00:20:41You just had to look at Twitter and you'll find that out.
00:20:44And I mean, let's face it, Tampa Bay estimated that they lost 4.5 million in betting revenue
00:20:51on the Tampa Bay Derby and the fact they had to cancel race number 12 as well.
00:20:55And they tried as long as they could.
00:20:57They delayed it about an hour because I just got done looking at horses.
00:21:01And I'm like, oh, I missed the Tampa Bay Derby and was going to watch the replay.
00:21:05And I put on Express Bet.
00:21:07I'm like, oh, they're still in the paddock.
00:21:09What is going on?
00:21:10And it wasn't just Tampa.
00:21:11It was all across the country.
00:21:13I mean, Santa Anita Gulf Stream, they weren't affected quite as badly, but they did delay their post parades.
00:21:19They tacked on five minutes and they just tried to push everything.
00:21:23But again, something needs to be resolved.
00:21:26And again, we always say something needs to be resolved and we don't know how to resolve it.
00:21:31It's just so frustrating.
00:21:36Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:38After we're going to have a couple of messages coming up.
00:21:40And after that, we're going to have an interview with Rusty Arnold.
00:21:43He's going to talk about his situation, getting a positive from the horse racing integrity and welfare unit and why he says that it's not fair.
00:21:52That'll be a very interesting interview when we come back after this.
00:21:56The TD and Riders Room also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:22:01Here's a PHBA fact.
00:22:03Last year, they paid out over 30 million dollars in breeders incentives.
00:22:09And over the last 10 years, the PHBA has averaged paying out 28 and a half million dollars a year in awards.
00:22:17And those awards were distributed not just to a handful of wealthy participants, but among 376 breeders.
00:22:25The top PA breeder last year, an outfit called Uptown Charlie Brown Stud, received over $868,000.
00:22:35PA breds run at three tracks, obviously.
00:22:37They run at Parks, Presque Isle Downs and Penn National within the state of Pennsylvania.
00:22:41They run on dirt, grass and tapita and in 350 race cards annually.
00:22:47So for more information about what you can earn with a PA bred, call the PA Horse Breeders at 610-444-1050.
00:22:55That's 610-444-1050 or go to pabred.com.
00:23:03The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:23:08When you buy a yearling, it's a little bit like buying a lottery ticket.
00:23:11And we are trying to provide the lottery ticket that the likelihood is to hit the jackpot.
00:23:16Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:23:20Uncle Heavy laid it's a photo finish!
00:23:24Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state bred program in the country bar none.
00:23:29The winner, Uncle Heavy. He's a three-year-old bred in Pennsylvania.
00:23:37We went there looking for a tisdalore and we wanted to try to buy the best tisdalore coat we could buy.
00:23:42We fell upon him and said, he's the one.
00:23:45Then you get home and he is the horse.
00:23:48It's fun to see what you saw in September and now comes March and he's even better.
00:24:00He's a real push button, this horse, so when you ask him, he keeps that in his little computer in his head.
00:24:10Next time you go out, he's waiting for you to push the button to ask.
00:24:14I was tremendously excited when we bought him and now I'm even more excited to be able to show him.
00:24:21He's a rocket ship, actually.
00:24:30This week's Coolmore Stallion of the Week is Pandemic Belmont winner, Tis the Law.
00:24:34And we're going to be asking Zoe about the first crop sires at OBS where she is ensconced right now.
00:24:40That'll be a little bit later in the podcast, but it seems like right now there is a lot to like about Tis the Law.
00:24:46It's that time of the podcast.
00:24:48The TD and Writer's Room brought to you by The Green Group, a tax accounting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry
00:24:54and designed to save you money on taxes.
00:24:59And we're welcoming now The Green Group guest of the week.
00:25:02It's trainer Rusty Arnold, and he has been in the news lately, news he wishes, of course, didn't happen.
00:25:08But here are the facts.
00:25:10The HISA slash HIWU has hit him with a seven day suspension and a $1,000 fine for a positive for tramadol.
00:25:20And Rusty didn't take this quietly.
00:25:22He's fighting it.
00:25:23He wants to have his voice be heard.
00:25:26And Rusty, I guess we can start with this.
00:25:28In the op-ed that you wrote for the Thoroughbred Daily News, I'm reading verbatim.
00:25:32I have no issue that I have a positive post-race test.
00:25:36The problem is why is it a positive?
00:25:39So could you elaborate on that and start with that theme?
00:25:43Under the current HISA rules, the horse tested positive for tramadol.
00:25:49And it came back with a very, very minute trace of tramadol.
00:25:53And the split confirmed it.
00:25:55And so I can't deny that the horse raced without tramadol in it.
00:26:00So, yeah, I took my positive and I didn't argue it.
00:26:03I didn't say anything.
00:26:04But after taking it, I wanted to point out I don't think it's fair.
00:26:08I don't think the system is right on these trace limits.
00:26:12And I'm trying to create whether it works or not.
00:26:15I don't know.
00:26:16I'm trying to create some positive movement to change the rules, some positive change.
00:26:24And your primary issue, correct me if I'm wrong, is the likelihood, in this case,
00:26:31anybody that knows you and has been around you would consider it a 100% likelihood,
00:26:36that the tramadol positive came as a result of contamination.
00:26:41Is that correct?
00:26:42Is that your primary problem with the situation as it now stands?
00:26:46Randy, that's correct.
00:26:47I mean, in my opinion, I have no doubt that it came from contamination.
00:26:51I think they don't agree with that.
00:26:54But my major objection is it is such a minute example that in today's society,
00:27:02there is no such thing as zero tolerance.
00:27:04There needs to be a level that if it's under a level, any medication, any,
00:27:11that it's not a positive if it shows in there that it is non-performance enhancing.
00:27:18And I think this is a clear case of it.
00:27:20I'm not trying to defend myself.
00:27:21I want to get clear to everybody.
00:27:22Mine's done.
00:27:23I'm trying to move forward.
00:27:25I'm trying to make a positive change because too many people are getting in this situation right now.
00:27:30It's one every day, one every few days, and I disagree with it.
00:27:34And I'm hoping we can make a little change on it.
00:27:37Don't know if we can after reading her letter today.
00:27:40I think they're going to dig their toes in because it is a non-therapeutic drug.
00:27:46And I understand it's a non-therapeutic drug.
00:27:49And they will let you have a contamination, it appears by her letter,
00:27:53if they approve the drug that you're contaminated with.
00:27:56I mean, I thought that article was unbelievable.
00:27:58Like, well, you weren't one of the drugs that we have allowed to be contaminated with.
00:28:03So, you know, my horse had the audacity to get contaminated with a drug that wasn't on their list.
00:28:10So, Randy, if we go back to 2018, you had a positive for raptopamine, which you're absolved of.
00:28:17It was a horse feed contaminant.
00:28:20We fast forward now.
00:28:22What has changed in the last few years?
00:28:25Because it seems even though that was, what, five years ago, six years ago,
00:28:31nothing has changed on the backside as far as contaminants.
00:28:34It's the same dirty stalls.
00:28:36It's the same, you know, we've all been on the backside.
00:28:40We've seen the test barns.
00:28:41Nothing's clean.
00:28:42There are contaminants everywhere.
00:28:44What can be done to help the situation right now?
00:28:49Well, Julie, two things on that.
00:28:51One is they never proceeded with that raptopamine.
00:28:55They themselves dropped it.
00:28:57Right.
00:28:58So, I didn't have to defend myself.
00:29:00I didn't have to do anything.
00:29:01They dropped the case because there were so many in the feed.
00:29:04You know, your feed was coming from feedlots that actually mixed feed for other animals that raptopamine was legally in.
00:29:13So, they dropped it.
00:29:14There was 10 in Iowa.
00:29:15There was some in Kentucky.
00:29:16So, that never went through.
00:29:18So, I think it's an easy fix.
00:29:21HIWU does not think it's an easy fix.
00:29:24There has to be a tolerance level developed by them.
00:29:28Their level to where they can say this has it in there, but there is absolutely zero effect on the horse.
00:29:34And when it's that small a number, we're not going to call it a positive.
00:29:38I think the level in a person, I'm not a scientist.
00:29:42I don't want to make a mistake on these numbers.
00:29:44But I think the level in a person is 50 nanograms before it has any effect.
00:29:49My horse had three.
00:29:50Three.
00:29:51And I'm not, again, not defending myself, but to stop all of this, give us a level that we can work with.
00:29:59That if it's under that, you're not positive.
00:30:02And I think there has to be a tolerance level.
00:30:05I think it only makes common sense in today's society.
00:30:09There's 30 million prescriptions for tramadol out there.
00:30:1230 million.
00:30:13And these conditions in these receiving barns are not good.
00:30:18Nobody's fault.
00:30:19They use the barn at Turf Way in the morning for shipping stalls.
00:30:23Horses work in ghost stalls.
00:30:26They were in the barn this morning, worked out.
00:30:28In the barn yesterday morning, worked out.
00:30:30Those stalls aren't pristine when we move in them tonight.
00:30:34It won't be tonight, but by tomorrow, they can clean them all they want.
00:30:38So, Rusty, in Lisa Lazarus's kind of counterpoint argument to this,
00:30:45one thing that she points out is that the sanctions for this particular medication are now less severe under HISA than they were under the old system.
00:30:54So is this a HISA problem or is this a horse racing problem?
00:30:59Because, you know, I think what they're trying to argue here is nothing's really changed.
00:31:05Now, you should say this thing should have changed for the better, but it doesn't seem the things have changed for the worse.
00:31:10So is HISA guilty here or is just the bigger system that we've had for years and years and years that totally needs to be reexamined?
00:31:20Well, first of all, every time I read in a paper, Lisa says, we're the law of the land.
00:31:26We're going nowhere and we're the law of the land.
00:31:28Why bring up what it used to be?
00:31:30It doesn't matter what it used to be.
00:31:32I'm dealing with the laws as they're put to me by HISA slash HIWU.
00:31:37That's what we're dealing with.
00:31:39It's like going back and saying the speed limit used to be 60 and now it's 50 and I wouldn't have been guilty for speeding.
00:31:46I don't know what they were.
00:31:48They probably were more severe, so I'm reading in her article.
00:31:51But I can only deal with what I'm dealing with now.
00:31:54And I'm not trying to get in a fight with Lisa Lazarus.
00:31:57I'm trying to make a productive change so that I think so many innocent, honest trainers are getting convicted and getting their reputations trashed, getting their finances trashed right now.
00:32:08On these positives that they have no control over.
00:32:11I think what's lucky about mine is I'm not going to a lawyer.
00:32:15I'm not asking for help.
00:32:17I know what happened.
00:32:18I know we didn't do it.
00:32:19The truth's on my side.
00:32:20It's not on HISA's side.
00:32:22This horse was not treated with tramadol in my barn and it got it.
00:32:27And we think they can even prove it if they want to that it got it within the eight hours of the race.
00:32:33It is highly probable by my experts that this horse got tramadol transferred to it within the eight hours of the race.
00:32:41Probable.
00:32:42And I don't think they can prove that if they wanted to, but they don't need to.
00:32:46So, this, I mean, obviously, contamination has been an issue in thoroughbred racing and medication and positive tests for a long, long time.
00:32:58I'd like to get your opinion on this.
00:33:00To me, this is the catch-22.
00:33:02To me, this is where a lot of racing fans and maybe even people in the industry would come down.
00:33:10Almost everybody believes, anybody that knows you believes, that this tramadol situation is a case of contamination.
00:33:18And, you know, 90 plus percent of all the trainers out there are honest.
00:33:24They're not trying to skirt the rules.
00:33:27They're not trying to give horses illegal medications.
00:33:29But you have a few who would.
00:33:33And invariably, if they get caught with a positive test, the very first thing they're going to say is, I didn't give this to the horse.
00:33:41It was contamination.
00:33:43If Jason Service and Jorge Navarro had been busted with a positive test, which they weren't, they were convicted as a result of wiretaps,
00:33:54undoubtedly, their defense would have been, we didn't give anything to the horses.
00:33:58It was contamination.
00:34:00So how do you distinguish between the legitimate contaminations that would be the vast majority without also, you know,
00:34:12not considering the guys that might be trying to game the system?
00:34:17How do you do that?
00:34:18Randy, my thought is, if you have a tolerance level that they can prove, and this would be, I'm not a scientist.
00:34:26This would have to be high woo to say up to this amount, it will have no performance enhancement on this horse.
00:34:34You go above that.
00:34:35I understand.
00:34:36I'm with you.
00:34:37Nobody that I know, no trainer that I deal with wants drugs in racing.
00:34:42They don't want these horses to be drugged.
00:34:44But we also, on the other hand, there is only so much we can do.
00:34:49You've seen the shape of these ship installs.
00:34:51What can we do?
00:34:52And I know we're walking a tightrope right here as far as is it going to let somebody cheat?
00:34:58If you had such a level that say, hey, whether it be 50 nanograms like they say in a person, if up to that,
00:35:06there is a very good chance that this was contamination.
00:35:09Over that, it was probably given or intentional.
00:35:13I don't know that I have all the answers, but I do think a lot of people are getting trashed right now that are very honest
00:35:20and are doing nothing wrong.
00:35:21They're just hardworking people, and they're getting trashed right now under the system we're dealing with.
00:35:26I'm not saying it's any different.
00:35:28I'm not saying I wouldn't be having this same conversation before HISA took over.
00:35:32But right now is what we're dealing with.
00:35:34I know I made it 48 years without getting days, and now I've got them.
00:35:38So that's the way the system has worked for me right now.
00:35:43So the threshold levels before and now have been set in consultation supposedly with scientists
00:35:51and veterinary experts and pharmacologists.
00:35:54Do you think they need to be revisited in general?
00:35:57Well, I don't think there is a threshold level if it's a certain med.
00:36:01As far as I understand, they don't care what it is.
00:36:03It's zero tolerance.
00:36:04And that's what I'm fighting, that there is no tolerance.
00:36:08Rusty, what has been the talk at the track with your peers and other trainers?
00:36:14Because you're very well-respected.
00:36:17We all like you.
00:36:18You're a great guy.
00:36:19You're a good trainer.
00:36:20People respect you.
00:36:22And they're like, you know, I'm down at OBS right now, and you're the talk of the town.
00:36:26Like, Randy's not a cheater.
00:36:28Like, what has been the comeback from everybody else and how we rectify this?
00:36:32And what's the general consensus on the racetrack about this?
00:36:37Well, I wasn't trying to be a martyr.
00:36:40I tried to speak up.
00:36:41And, again, I didn't want it against myself.
00:36:44I didn't defend myself.
00:36:46I made sure that was very clear in the end, trying to make a change going forward.
00:36:51I think the response has been very good, a little bit overwhelming, actually.
00:36:54I answered over 300 and some emails or texts within the next 48 hours.
00:37:00I would say 99.9% were positive in support, several from jockey club members,
00:37:06which very surprised me.
00:37:08And the one thing that was the theme that echoed between every one of them was,
00:37:13this isn't what we signed up for.
00:37:15This isn't what we thought it was going to be.
00:37:17We thought we were going to catch guys that were clearly cheating.
00:37:20We didn't know that the everyday guy that's out there trying to do his job was
00:37:24going to be snared by the gotcha mentality of Highwood.
00:37:29So can I ask you, like, coming into this, just a generalized question,
00:37:35pro HISA, for HISA?
00:37:37Like, what's your general feeling before this all started?
00:37:41Well, I haven't changed at all.
00:37:42I have no problems with HISA.
00:37:44And I would probably be a HISA backer.
00:37:47But I don't think that they should resist coming to the table and speaking about
00:37:52some positive changes.
00:37:54Many, many talks with Lisa.
00:37:57Most of them are positive.
00:37:59We're on a different side of something right now.
00:38:02She dug in her eagles a little bit about, you know, this is a bad drug.
00:38:06I think they, you know, her article was pretty much sensationalized to let
00:38:10everybody know how bad Tramadol is.
00:38:12I know how bad Tramadol is.
00:38:14You know, I did not admit that the horse raced with Tramadol.
00:38:17You know, we got a science lesson in Tramadol in the first part of her letter.
00:38:21What she failed to put in there was, in all probability,
00:38:25my horse had zero performance enhancing in it.
00:38:30There was no zero chance of that.
00:38:32And it was very, very probable from my expert that it got it within the eight
00:38:37hours of the race, which is in a receiving barn because of the half-life.
00:38:41I'm not a scientist.
00:38:42I don't know.
00:38:43But I do think one thing I wanted to address in Lisa's letter is she talked
00:38:49about the things we can do, two of them,
00:38:52one being you've got to stop people from peeing in your stalls.
00:38:56Well, I can stop it in my barn and Ron Marquette and Steve Asmussen,
00:38:59everybody can stop it in their own barn.
00:39:01I can't stop it in a receiving barn.
00:39:03I have no control over the receiving barn whatsoever.
00:39:06I don't have control of the dark day before it's there.
00:39:08I don't have control of the hours before we get there.
00:39:11But the number two one that probably upset me the most of everything is she
00:39:16said we've got to work stronger on video surveillance.
00:39:19And it almost jumped off the page at me.
00:39:22I have offered them.
00:39:24We have state-of-the-art video surveillance at Keeneland.
00:39:28Dr. Brown put it in.
00:39:30It's better than anybody.
00:39:31It's better than Walmart.
00:39:33I can see people's faces in my stalls 24-7.
00:39:37I offered that to HIWU with my initial response.
00:39:41That's why I sent you that letter.
00:39:42Never responded to me.
00:39:44I offered it to them the second time.
00:39:46Never responded to me.
00:39:48The third time they said we don't need it.
00:39:51We're satisfied that you're guilty.
00:39:53Why do I have 24-7 surveillance in my stalls available to them and they don't
00:40:01want it?
00:40:02Somebody give me the answer to that.
00:40:05Can you talk to me about the half-life?
00:40:08Because we read the letter and you're referring to tramadol and the half-life
00:40:13and the receiving barn.
00:40:15Can you just explain that to people that are listening?
00:40:17Well, I was, again, not an expert on medication.
00:40:21But I was told that the half-life of tramadol in that letter drops really,
00:40:25really quick.
00:40:26So if it would receive this tramadol way back, that it would be not in the
00:40:31system at all.
00:40:32That it had to be done closer to the race.
00:40:35That's what I was told.
00:40:36Again, I'm not an expert.
00:40:38I don't know anything about tramadol.
00:40:40I don't know how it gets there, when it goes out.
00:40:42But I've been told that it was in all probability was contacted the horse
00:40:47close to the race.
00:40:48So in the receiving barn, we're in there about eight hours.
00:40:51The horses go in there in the morning.
00:40:53They're in.
00:40:54They work.
00:40:55They go out in those stalls.
00:40:56They have them cleaned.
00:40:57We go in at night.
00:40:58We're in them.
00:40:59We go out.
00:41:00And I don't think they're – what I don't think is the stalls are getting
00:41:05cleaned to the standard that they're testing to.
00:41:08I couldn't see that.
00:41:10Well, see, I would say that this isn't the first type of this kind of story
00:41:14that we've heard.
00:41:15We've been reporting on these sort of things.
00:41:17We've been talking about them on the podcast.
00:41:19One thing I would say about HISA is that they have been pretty good about
00:41:24admitting – well, they might not call it mistakes, but that they will say
00:41:29– look at something and say, this could have been done better and done right.
00:41:33And, you know, so they have moved away from the very draconian rules they had
00:41:40in place when they first started, and they are more lenient when it comes to
00:41:44some of these things.
00:41:45Not with your case, though, but do you see any hope on the horizon?
00:41:49Has Lisa Lazarus given you any indication of the things you are suggesting,
00:41:54which to me – and I'm not a scientist, nor am I a horse trainer,
00:41:57but they seem to make sense – that they will listen to you and that maybe
00:42:01you will be the person who brings about some changes here.
00:42:06Well, I think Lisa listens very well.
00:42:10I'm hoping that there will be some change.
00:42:13Maybe she'll have some reasons that they can't change.
00:42:15Again, maybe science is going to say, hey, you know, if somebody can get by
00:42:21with 3 nanograms, you know, they'll push for 10.
00:42:24I don't know, but I do agree with you.
00:42:26We're reading these stories too much every day right now.
00:42:29There are too many people that I don't think are cheaters.
00:42:32I don't think they're intended to cheat.
00:42:34And I think it makes us look bad, for one thing, also.
00:42:39So I think it's got to be slowed down.
00:42:41And hopefully, if all it cost me was seven days and one person,
00:42:46a couple hundred thousand dollar fine, and if we can make a positive change,
00:42:50it was well worth it.
00:42:51Meanwhile, life's not that bad for Rusty Arnold.
00:42:54You've got a nice palm tree right behind you that Bill and I are very jealous of right now.
00:42:58Zoe's in Ocala.
00:43:00There's probably a palm tree up there somewhere, although you can't tell.
00:43:03You're in a pretty good spot there, Rusty.
00:43:05Yeah, life's not bad at all.
00:43:07I'm in my kitchen looking out the back door.
00:43:09It's about 75 degrees and couldn't be better.
00:43:13Life's not bad.
00:43:15A little bit of a hiccup, a little bit of bump in the road.
00:43:17How's your golf game and how's Red Carpet Ready?
00:43:20This is what I really want to talk about.
00:43:23I'm going to make it easy.
00:43:24I don't play golf anymore.
00:43:25I haven't played in about five years.
00:43:27And Red Carpet Ready is great.
00:43:29I was extremely proud of her comeback.
00:43:32Really, really nice race to come off the shelf.
00:43:35She did it.
00:43:36Came out of the race good and onward back to Kentucky.
00:43:39Well, Rusty, thank you so much for your time.
00:43:41This is a fascinating and difficult subject.
00:43:44You've come up with some solutions and they make some sense.
00:43:48But I've got to admit that this is obviously not something that can be easily solved.
00:43:52But you're to be commended for fighting for your rights.
00:43:55And we thank you for being this week's Green Group Guest of the Week on the TDN Writers from Podcast.
00:44:00For graciously agreeing to be the Green Group Guest of the Week,
00:44:03Mr. Rusty Arnold will receive a free one-hour tax consultation from the Green Group.
00:44:08For more information, again, on how the Green Group can save you money,
00:44:11right there in the old pocketbook, www.greenco.com.
00:44:18Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:44:20The Green Group can help.
00:44:22There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
00:44:27They save you money and share successful strategies.
00:44:31Over the past 40 years, the Green Group founder, Len Green,
00:44:35has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport.
00:44:39Like Eclipse Award-winning champions, Jaywalk and Wonderwheel.
00:44:43His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
00:44:48Len Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge, combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies,
00:44:54has produced positive results for his clientele
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00:45:09or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:45:14The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:45:18With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
00:45:24there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:45:30Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,
00:45:33as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:45:39Kentucky breds.
00:45:41Breed them.
00:45:42Raise them.
00:45:43Race them.
00:45:44We all win.
00:45:49So all these big races we've been recapping the last couple of weeks
00:45:52have one thing in common.
00:45:54Santa Anita Handicap Winter Newgate.
00:45:56Kentucky bred.
00:45:57Kill Row Mile Winter DuJour.
00:45:59Kentucky bred.
00:46:00Even at Maydawn, the Burj Nihar went to Laurel River in the Nadal Sheba Turf Sprint,
00:46:05went to Frost-The-Dawn.
00:46:06Kentucky bred.
00:46:07Kentucky bred.
00:46:08And the newest horse on the Kentucky Derby Trail that we've already talked about,
00:46:11domestic product, fun and practical joke,
00:46:14Kentucky bred.
00:46:15Find your Kentucky bred this week at the OBS March Sale.
00:46:19Kentucky breds.
00:46:20Breed them.
00:46:21Raise them.
00:46:22Race them.
00:46:23We all win.
00:46:25And now, First Things First.
00:46:27All right.
00:46:28Well, you know I'm all in Ocala right now,
00:46:31so this week's edition of First Things First,
00:46:34our own Michelle Yu caught up with owner breeder Pam Zeebath to talk about,
00:46:39we already mentioned her, that brilliant gray filly who beat your favorite
00:46:43five-year-old mare, Randy, in a dare manner.
00:46:46We're going to listen to how she thinks sweet Azteca rap.
00:46:52Well, if there's a way to make a grade one any sweeter,
00:46:57it's to have a homebred grade one winner.
00:47:00I'm joined by Pam Zeebath, the owner and breeder.
00:47:02Can you describe your emotions right now?
00:47:05I was telling them in the paddock that the best fisher we have is a Flavian
00:47:10on her mom down at Delmar.
00:47:12So I was like, let's do this again.
00:47:15Now we have four siblings right now,
00:47:19and she's carrying another sharp Azteca.
00:47:22Oh, so nice to have a full, right?
00:47:23So you're excited here.
00:47:24What were your thoughts coming down the lane?
00:47:26Because she was in front, seemed to be pretty comfortable,
00:47:29but here comes the favorite breathing down her neck.
00:47:31I'm like, okay, let's kick in the 12 links.
00:47:36Did Michael say after that last race that she come back with some confidence?
00:47:40Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:47:41Loads of confidence.
00:47:42The whole team had more confidence that this is really it.
00:47:46I mean, I think the grade three was a fluke, you know,
00:47:50just new place, new noises.
00:47:53Looking back at her pedigree, I would say I wasn't sure about the two turns,
00:47:58especially how quick she was.
00:47:59Were you confident that two turns was going to be up her alley?
00:48:02I felt she could do it, especially after talking to Michael.
00:48:05He goes, she has so much left after her work.
00:48:07You know, it's just like it's in there.
00:48:09So, yeah, we're really pleased.
00:48:11Congratulations.
00:48:13A nice homebred victory for Sweet Azteca as a grade one winner.
00:48:21Thanks, Michelle.
00:48:22Catching up with Pam Zivat.
00:48:24Do want to remind you that post time now at Santa Anita will be 1 p.m.
00:48:28Friday, Saturday, and Sunday due to the time change.
00:48:32We do have some good stakes coming this weekend.
00:48:34We'll have the San Carlos.
00:48:35Looks like perhaps Elwood Blues, Forbidden Kingdom, Mystification.
00:48:40I'm a gambler and perhaps Panelli may be going forward as one of three stakes
00:48:45this weekend at Santa Anita.
00:48:49Well, we've been talking loud about OBS and our very own Zoe Cadman is there.
00:48:53Right in the thick of things.
00:48:55And Zoe, I think one thing that makes this particular sale so exciting,
00:48:59it's the first chance you get to see how the first crop sires,
00:49:04how their offspring are doing, performing on the track,
00:49:08how people regard them, et cetera.
00:49:10And, you know, I think the one question I write a story about this every year,
00:49:14you know, who among the freshman sires is getting all the buzz?
00:49:18Who's going to be the one this year?
00:49:20There's plenty of buzz down here at OBS.
00:49:23We had a good breeze show.
00:49:25You know, I've really liked the Vekomas.
00:49:28He's a son of Candy Ride.
00:49:29He stands at Spendthrift for 15,000.
00:49:32It's a grade one winner out of a grade one winner by a grade one winner.
00:49:36And they really get over the track really nicely.
00:49:39And I'm not the only one that agrees with that.
00:49:42He was a brilliant racehorse.
00:49:44So Vekoma, volatile.
00:49:46I mean, I'm sticking with the V's.
00:49:48He, again, stands for 15,000 at Three Chimneys.
00:49:51His babies have been working very, very well.
00:49:54And then we already mentioned Tis the Law.
00:49:56I just looked up and I just saw a Tis the Law go through for 750,000.
00:50:01He stands at Coolmore.
00:50:03Now, I think a lot of people have forgotten how good a racehorse Tis the Law was.
00:50:07He's by constitution.
00:50:09And he's already a better racehorse than constitution ever was.
00:50:13His grandsire is Tapit.
00:50:15He's already a better racehorse than his grandsire.
00:50:18If you think that Tis the Law won the Champaign as a two-year-old,
00:50:22he won the Travers.
00:50:23He won the Belmont, which, yes, was earlier because of the pandemic.
00:50:27He was a very, very good racehorse.
00:50:29So I'm liking the Tis the Laws and also the McKinsey's.
00:50:33I think the McKinsey's are going to take a little bit more time.
00:50:36We've only seen a few of them.
00:50:38We're going to see more horses show up in April here at OBS
00:50:41because people point perhaps some of their more immature horses towards April
00:50:46to give them just a little bit of time.
00:50:49But on the whole, it's been good down here.
00:50:52The main talk, and I don't want to start a whole other conversation here,
00:50:57was Mike Rapoli blowing up Twitter the first day of the sales
00:51:01saying he was not going to buy any racehorses down here.
00:51:05There's been a lot of action.
00:51:07You can just go and read all that for yourself.
00:51:09But I'm going to stand by the fact that the two-year-old sales
00:51:12are the number one producers in the country of stakes winners,
00:51:15and they have the facts to prove it.
00:51:17We bought Corniche down here.
00:51:20Storm the Court we bought down here.
00:51:22We bought Collected down here.
00:51:24A lot of good horses come from these two-year-old sales.
00:51:26And we're here to buy.
00:51:28And I'm just speaking for myself, Marette Farrell, who I work for.
00:51:32We're quite happy to be down here.
00:51:36The news last week on Justify and his Santa Anita Derby,
00:51:42I guess this will be the last chapter in it.
00:51:44But earlier in December, a judge ruled that –
00:51:49well, first of all, backing up if you don't know,
00:51:51he tested positive for scopalamine.
00:51:54The California Horse Racing Board made the decision that it was, again,
00:51:58a hot topic, environmental contamination,
00:52:00so they would not take any action against him.
00:52:03Mick Ruiz, who had Bolt D'Oro, who finished second,
00:52:07right away started going through all sorts of channels
00:52:10to have this ruling overruled saying, hey, he had the drug in his system.
00:52:17The rules say if you test positive for something,
00:52:20you're going to be disqualified.
00:52:22This was not the CHRB's finest hour.
00:52:25It really looks like they tried to sweep this under the rug
00:52:29and never even announced what was going on
00:52:32or told anybody what was going on.
00:52:34And they may not have ever done it,
00:52:36if not for a newspaper story in The New York Times.
00:52:39But I guess it doesn't take away anything from Justify.
00:52:43He was an absolutely great horse.
00:52:45But you can make the argument that he should have been disqualified
00:52:49from the Santa Anita Derby.
00:52:50The CHRB now is going to redistribute the purse
00:52:53so that Ruiz gets the winner's total of the $600,000
00:52:58versus the second-place total, which was $200,000.
00:53:03But I guess the question, and I'm not really clear
00:53:06what the answer is on this because of the timeline involved,
00:53:10but had the CHRB handled this the way that maybe they should have
00:53:16and have been more transparent about it,
00:53:18would he have been disqualified for the Santa Anita Derby
00:53:21and, therefore, would he have not had any points
00:53:23and, therefore, could he not have run?
00:53:25Randy, you're shaking your head, so I'll go with you first.
00:53:27And, therefore, would not have been able to run in the Kentucky Derby.
00:53:30I don't really know the answer. Maybe you do.
00:53:32Well, I don't personally know the answer,
00:53:35but NBC Sports has a gentleman that I know you know
00:53:39by the name of Tim Layden, who's a multiple Eclipse Award winner.
00:53:42He's a fantastic investigative reporter about horse racing.
00:53:45He knows a lot about the sport.
00:53:47Years ago, when all this was first coming down,
00:53:50first being made public through The New York Times,
00:53:53he actually did a very exhaustive, deep dive on the whole situation,
00:53:59including the aspect of this that you just mentioned.
00:54:02Could it have kept justified from running in the Kentucky Derby?
00:54:05And what Layden found out was that Bob Baffert was notified
00:54:09about the positive four days before the Kentucky Derby.
00:54:13He exercised his right to have a split sample made,
00:54:16but that split sample could not have come back in time
00:54:19for the Kentucky Derby.
00:54:21So, at that time, there was really no way that Justify would not have been
00:54:26allowed to run in the Kentucky Derby because the split sample
00:54:29hadn't verified the initial test.
00:54:33There were a lot of other things that he uncovered,
00:54:35and it was clearly contamination.
00:54:38There were something like seven different episodes
00:54:41of scopolamine positives during that period of time
00:54:46surrounding Justify's Santa Anita Derby.
00:54:49They weren't as high a concentration as Justify had in his system,
00:54:54but Layden spoke to all sorts of different independent chemists
00:54:59and laboratory experts and veterinary experts,
00:55:03and they all 100% agreed that it was easily a case of contamination.
00:55:11Now, the question then becomes the way I see it, guys.
00:55:15So, if it was contamination, does that mean that the horse
00:55:23doesn't have to be disqualified, that they can actually leave the result
00:55:28of the Santa Anita Derby as is, or does, which they did rule,
00:55:32the CHRB ruled that initially, or does the contamination finding
00:55:37simply absolve the trainers of responsibility when it comes to
00:55:42suspensions or things like that?
00:55:44Obviously, the court judge ruled that a disqualification was mandated
00:55:50by California racing rules, and that's why we're at where we're at right now.
00:55:56But, Zoe, it's been a big deal out there, I know.
00:55:59We just closed the book on that now.
00:56:01I'm tired of talking about contamination.
00:56:03It's just, I mean, Justify was brilliant.
00:56:07You can't take that away from him.
00:56:09He did everything.
00:56:10He won the Triple Crown.
00:56:11He was brilliant regardless, and he's a brilliant sire.
00:56:14It was contamination.
00:56:16Mick Ruiz got his $300,000, probably cost him $600,000 in lawyer's fees
00:56:22because this has been going on for years.
00:56:24So, yeah, I'm done talking about that.
00:56:29About the CHRB, the CHRB in defending themselves, Bill,
00:56:34said that the way they handled this particular scopolamine case,
00:56:39as far as any sort of public statements or rulings,
00:56:46was consistent with the way they had handled other similar cases,
00:56:49meaning if they determined that it was a result of contamination
00:56:53and, therefore, it was not a positive and no action would be taken,
00:56:57they didn't go public with it.
00:56:59Right.
00:57:00Out of privacy to the trainers involved,
00:57:02they didn't want to besmirch their reputations if they were taking no action
00:57:06and if they decided it was actually not a positive because of contamination.
00:57:10But I still think, and I think you probably agree,
00:57:14that given the fact that it was justified,
00:57:19given the fact that it was a Triple Crown winner,
00:57:22they should have been a little bit more PR conscious of the situation
00:57:27than they actually were.
00:57:29Yeah, and that's one of the points here.
00:57:32And, look, again, I'm going to use the contamination word
00:57:37that Zoe doesn't want to ever talk about again, but I have to say it.
00:57:42But I also think that in the end result, the court got it right.
00:57:47Now, I agree with you that the timeline,
00:57:49they never could have got this done in the four weeks
00:57:52between the San Diego Derby and the Kentucky Derby,
00:57:54so he was going to run in the Kentucky Derby no matter what.
00:57:57But in the end of the day, he tested positive for a medication.
00:58:00Contamination or not, he should have been disqualified.
00:58:07And I don't think the CHRB handled that well
00:58:10and they messed this up in a lot of different ways.
00:58:13But maybe now this is the last of this,
00:58:15but it doesn't reflect badly on Bob Baffert.
00:58:18It wasn't his fault, and it certainly doesn't take anything away
00:58:21from Justify, who was a tremendous horse
00:58:24and has now turned out to be one of the leading sires in the sport.
00:58:29And who tested cleanly after the Derby, after the Preakness,
00:58:32and after the Belmont.
00:58:34The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:58:38It's free, you can log on every single day
00:58:41and just pick whichever workout you want.
00:58:43And this week, the XBTV Workout of the Week is fierceness.
00:58:48Here he is working in company with stablemate Tuscan Sky
00:58:51at Palm Beach Downs on a muddy Friday morning.
00:58:55The pair were clocked going five furlongs in a minute and four-fifths.
00:58:59While they do hit the wire together, you can easily see the gallop out
00:59:03and fierceness just pulling away from Tuscan Sky.
00:59:07It looks like Johnny D is aboard fierceness.
00:59:10Guys, I've been watching gallop outs all week and timing them,
00:59:13and this is a very, very good gallop out for fierceness.
00:59:17We know he has an on-and-off-again record,
00:59:20but I like what I'm seeing here from fierceness
00:59:22with trainer Todd Fletcher in the XBTV Workout of the Week.
00:59:37♪♪♪
00:59:47♪♪♪
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01:00:28Meanwhile, the TD and Riders are brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:00:32Depending on when you're watching this podcast,
01:00:34as expected, West Point either is or was heavily involved in the OBS March sale,
01:00:39looking for its next horses that will vault its partners
01:00:42into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:00:44Meanwhile, a past West Point OBS investment is hoping to make headlines at OP this weekend.
01:00:51That would be Jackson Traveler, who's entered at Oaklawn Park
01:00:54in the Grade 3 Whitmore stakes on Saturday at Six Furlongs,
01:00:57bidding for his third stakes win since November.
01:01:00Jackson Traveler was purchased by West Point at OBS for $140,000 in 2020 during the pandemic.
01:01:07He would become that year's Maryland-bred champion two-year-old
01:01:10and the next year's Maryland-bred champion three-year-old.
01:01:14If you're interested in joining a West Point partnership
01:01:16and getting involved with cool horses like Jackson Traveler,
01:01:20you can learn more by visiting westpointtb.com.
01:01:24Terry Finley was right next to us yesterday.
01:01:27I actually saw him in the distance and I was like,
01:01:29is Randy here? I just saw this bald head.
01:01:32I'm like, oh, it's Randy.
01:01:34It was Terry Finley.
01:01:35So he's here with his whole crew and they will be big in action here at OBS all week.
01:01:41So, yeah, you got doppelgangers everywhere.
01:01:43Rusty, Terry, it's the in thing.
01:01:47I might shave my head next week.
01:01:49Terry was a Marine.
01:01:50I'm not that tough.
01:01:53All right.
01:02:00I want to thank everybody for tuning in.
01:02:02That's a wrap on this week's show.
01:02:04I want to thank my cohorts, Randy Moss, Zoe Cabman, our Green Group Guests of the Week,
01:02:08Rusty Arnold, our producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca,
01:02:12and our editors, Galia LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:02:15Thanks for listening.
01:02:16Thanks for tuning in.
01:02:17See you next week.
01:02:19Bye.