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Transcript
00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning.
00:00:24It is 913, Wednesday, June 15th.
00:00:28This is the TDN Writer's Room, presented by Keeneland.
00:00:31My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:32I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:34I know the run is over.
00:00:35I want to shout out to my beautiful young rangers for getting all the way to this, to
00:00:39the, almost like a final conference final.
00:00:42Good morning.
00:00:43I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:46And I did the podcast all five weeks during the Triple Crown.
00:00:50I'm gassed.
00:00:51It was way too much.
00:00:52I'm way overtaxed.
00:00:53So, I'm announcing here, next year, I'm going to take at least one week off in between podcasts
00:01:00because nobody could possibly do this five straight weeks during the Triple Crown.
00:01:04Way, way, way too much.
00:01:08Jonathan Green, General Manager at DJ Stable.
00:01:11And the only thing hotter than the weather in Lexington, Kentucky, is our racing stable
00:01:15in Canada.
00:01:16That's right.
00:01:17Top of the list.
00:01:18A number one.
00:01:21That's right.
00:01:22We are leading owners.
00:01:23We have a 60% win percentage and a 95% in the money percentage.
00:01:27I've never had that before in my life.
00:01:28I haven't changed my underwear in three weeks.
00:01:30Yeah.
00:01:31You should quit while you're ahead.
00:01:32Get out of the game now.
00:01:33Well, and Joe, my grandfather used to always say to me, we used to go to baseball games
00:01:37when I was a kid.
00:01:38And I'd be like, wow, Greg Nettles is hitting 400 in April.
00:01:43And he would go, just wait, read the back of his baseball card.
00:01:46And sure enough, every year he'd end up like a 250, 260.
00:01:49We were literally, we had two wins in the entire first quarter of the year.
00:01:54Two wins in the entire first quarter of the year.
00:01:56So even though we have all these wins right now, knock wood, we're at 18%, which is where
00:01:59we always are.
00:02:00We're always between 15 and 20%.
00:02:02So it's the back of the baseball card.
00:02:04It's not that we're doing anything different, as much as I would love to say that it was
00:02:06all great management.
00:02:08It's just statistics.
00:02:09Well, those Euro horses are looking good.
00:02:11A lot of those imports are looking good.
00:02:13And I said this on Sunday, Mark Cassies won, I think, now with six straight two-year-olds
00:02:19at Woodbine.
00:02:20That's an incredible feat.
00:02:23Six straight two-year-olds and four out of his five owners up in Canada are the leading
00:02:27owners.
00:02:28I mean, he's having a remarkable run up there.
00:02:31And that's why they call him Mr. Canada.
00:02:33Yep.
00:02:34We can't wait to see all those babies this summer, John.
00:02:36They'll all be coming in.
00:02:38They'll all be coming in.
00:02:39Anyway, thanks guys.
00:02:40The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:02:44Make plans to attend the Keeneland September Yearling Sale beginning Monday, September
00:02:4812th.
00:02:49Learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:02:50All right.
00:02:51So we're going to do Belmont weekend a little bit backwards.
00:02:55We're going to talk about the undercard races first, and then we're going to take a little
00:02:58break and we're going to come back and talk about the Belmont.
00:03:00And it's not because the Belmont wasn't interesting.
00:03:03I think it actually ended up being really interesting with who won.
00:03:06I thought it was a great story.
00:03:08But I think there were so many good performances on the undercard, two in particular, that
00:03:13they weren't being talked about first.
00:03:15I think they're Flightline and Jack Christopher.
00:03:18Both of those races were eye-popping races.
00:03:21And if you guys want to bring up some other horses, you can.
00:03:23But I'll start with Flightline and then you guys can talk about whatever you want to talk
00:03:27about.
00:03:28First of all, let me say this, just a little caveat beforehand.
00:03:33I feel like people are overstating a little bit the kind of trouble he had.
00:03:37It was a five-horse field.
00:03:39He broke about a length slowly.
00:03:41He got checked slightly twice in the early going.
00:03:44And then he got into the two-path, perfect stalking position for three-quarters of the
00:03:48race.
00:03:49So it was great to see him overcome some trouble for the first time in his career, definitely.
00:03:53But I don't want people to act like he had this nightmare trip that he had to battle
00:03:58through.
00:03:59That being said, what an incredible animal to watch.
00:04:03I can't remember a horse who looked as good as he does running and who was as fast as
00:04:09he is.
00:04:10And he's just one of those horses that reminds you, I think, why you love horse racing and
00:04:15why you love this sport and watching these animals run, because he is just so fluid and
00:04:20just poetry in motion, big imposing horse who was just born to race.
00:04:25I think there are just some horses that come around and you can just watch them run.
00:04:29Forget all the speed figures.
00:04:31Forget all of his brilliance for just a second.
00:04:33Just watching him run visually and viscerally, it's an incredible experience.
00:04:38And I'm grateful for every single time I get to see him run.
00:04:41I know Bill and I agree with Bill.
00:04:43I think he's going to complain that the horse is not going to run more than six times in
00:04:46his career.
00:04:47And I get that.
00:04:48I'm sympathetic to that.
00:04:49I wish I would see him more often, but I don't know.
00:04:52Just watching him on Saturday, it was hard to be negative because it was such an incredible
00:04:56experience to watch him.
00:04:57And there were a bunch of other horses that impressed as well.
00:05:00But nobody that's like him that I think gives you that feeling inside that, like, damn,
00:05:04this is why I love horse racing.
00:05:06Go ahead, guys.
00:05:07Yeah, Joe, you hit the nail on the head there.
00:05:09And I'm not, look, the six times in his entire career, it's, you know, it's unfortunate.
00:05:16But it is what it is.
00:05:17It's the modern era.
00:05:18So I'm not going to, you know, I wish it were him.
00:05:20I wish he would run 25 times and if he came around 25, 30 years ago, he would have.
00:05:25But you know, that's not anything to complain about or, you know, to focus in on.
00:05:30You know, every time I get ready to punch the keyboard or to talk on the podcast about
00:05:35this horse, you know, for something, wait a minute, he's only run four times.
00:05:40Can you really say he's one of the greatest horses you've ever seen run?
00:05:44I say, you know what?
00:05:45The hell with it.
00:05:46Yes.
00:05:47Yes, he is.
00:05:48Because, you know, because we know what he's doing.
00:05:51Our eyes don't deceive us.
00:05:53He's doing something that you see horses only do once in a great while.
00:05:58And in some respects, you know, I don't even know who to compare him to.
00:06:01You talk Ghost Zapper.
00:06:02I think he's better than Ghost Zapper.
00:06:04I really do.
00:06:06And, you know, because he's running so fast, so dominant in his races.
00:06:11And the thing about the Met Mile that I don't know if you could have taken him to another
00:06:15level so far as the way we thought about him.
00:06:18But this was and we talked to Terry Finlay about it before the race.
00:06:22This was the first time we would really find out something about him.
00:06:25It wasn't just against straight three year olds in the Malibu.
00:06:28It was against, I mean, we're talking Speaker's Corner's beast, that horse.
00:06:33And, you know, look what he did to him.
00:06:35Happy Savers, a grade one winner, the Jockey Club Gold Cup winner, finished second.
00:06:39The only difference in the race to me was that he didn't cross the wire under that canter
00:06:44that he had been in his previous races.
00:06:48You know, he was the comment of the race was driving.
00:06:50It was not written out or or handling or anything like that.
00:06:53But that, I think, is due to a couple of things.
00:06:56Number one, he did have trouble.
00:06:57You're right.
00:06:58It wasn't terrible trouble, but he did have trouble.
00:07:00He was running against much, much better horses.
00:07:03But he still won by six lengths.
00:07:04He still got an astronomical buyer figure.
00:07:07And yeah, you know, I hope that that he continues on.
00:07:11And if we get only the two more races that he continues to put on a show in these two
00:07:14races, then John Green can pay the two hundred thousand dollars fee to breed his mares to
00:07:19him starting next year.
00:07:21You know, you led right into what I was going to talk about, which is what breeders are
00:07:25going to be looking for.
00:07:26And he checks all the boxes.
00:07:27I mean, he checks the eye test.
00:07:30He's a tappet, son of tappet.
00:07:32He's, you know, out of an Indian Charlie mare, which is, you know, very, very attractive
00:07:37for breeders.
00:07:38He was a million dollar purchase as a yearling.
00:07:42So obviously he's got the looks and the pedigree.
00:07:44He's undefeated.
00:07:46He's won two great ones and he and he's done it.
00:07:49Both great ones were without laces.
00:07:51So as far as the breeders are concerned, it's check, check, check, check, check all the
00:07:56all the way through.
00:07:57You know, and the other thing that was amazing to me about Flightline is that he's done this,
00:08:03you know, this phenomenal run with big gaps in his racing career.
00:08:08You know, he went from April to September and won even more impressively the second
00:08:14time out.
00:08:15Then he went from September to December and top that.
00:08:19And now he hadn't run since almost New Year's Eve.
00:08:21We're six months into the year and he's still undefeated.
00:08:24And he's still won that race by six easily, stepping up in class and stepping up in distance
00:08:30every single time.
00:08:31So I think that this is a horse that you get goosebumps when you when you watch him run.
00:08:36And I'm not just saying that because, you know, West Point is a friend of the show.
00:08:39I mean, I genuinely believe that there are certain horses in a crop and certainly in
00:08:45a generation that get you excited.
00:08:48And people can point to this race and say, well, it was a five horse field.
00:08:51It was.
00:08:52But four out of the five horses were grade one winners.
00:08:55So it wasn't like this crappy group of claimers that stepped up to the owners and trainers
00:08:59to get a free lunch that day.
00:09:01It was, you know, it was a legitimate grade one race.
00:09:04There were four horses in there that were great, that were great one material.
00:09:07And God bless Uriah St. Louis, because he's always in these big races.
00:09:10And every now and then he does.
00:09:11He does win, you know, with like a 40 to one shot.
00:09:14So he got like 40 grand for shipping informative over there to, you know, to basically have
00:09:19a published work.
00:09:20But he got paid for it.
00:09:21The other four horses were very, very legitimate.
00:09:23You know, you mentioned Speaker's Corner and won the quarter.
00:09:26Aloha West won the Breeders' Cup Sprint last year.
00:09:29Happy Sabre, you know, was made 800,000 and won the Jockey Club last year.
00:09:33I mean, these are all legitimate horses that that in their own rights could stand at stud
00:09:39somewhere in the continental United States if they want to.
00:09:41So I was I was, you know, a believer in flight line last time when he won the Malibu.
00:09:47This one really put me over the top as far as just how good he can be.
00:09:50And I can't wait for his for his next race.
00:09:53And I say that and I was like, wow, that was one of the best races I've ever seen in my
00:09:58life.
00:09:59And then I went, wait a second.
00:10:00That wasn't even the best race that I saw of the day.
00:10:02I mean, can we talk about Jack Christopher and just how impressive he was in a hand ride
00:10:07all the way?
00:10:08I don't think Jose Ortiz moved his hands even the entire way.
00:10:12I mean, he just basically that horse broke, sat, went past everybody.
00:10:17Jose Ortiz should pay Chad Brown for riding that horse that time because he really didn't
00:10:23do anything other than just be a passenger on a very fast ship.
00:10:25But guys, that was that was like a wow, wow, wow kind of race for another undefeated horse
00:10:30in Jack Christopher.
00:10:31Yeah, well, just to go back to the flight line for a second, I just like I was saying,
00:10:37I think it was just one of those things where if you forget the buyer figure, forget even
00:10:41what race it was, just watch him run, watch him run.
00:10:45And that's the kind of thing that showed him running to people who don't get horse
00:10:51racing.
00:10:52And I feel like a lot of people will be like, holy shit, that horse is really moving.
00:10:56But it doesn't look like it because it's so easy for him.
00:10:58And those are the really, really special animals.
00:11:01Obviously, he's brilliant, crazy fast, one of the fastest horses we've ever seen.
00:11:06But just visually, he's so impressive to watch.
00:11:08And yeah, Jack Christopher, he was right up there.
00:11:12And he got a 112 buyer, Jack Christopher got a 107.
00:11:16But his his acceleration in that last furlong was insanity.
00:11:21Like for a three year old dirt horse to pick up like that and go from like a length or
00:11:26two lead to a 10 length win in that short of a time span was was mind blowing.
00:11:32And honestly, and you know, he's he's clearly the best three year old in the country right
00:11:36now.
00:11:37You know, before earlier in the year, when we were trying to figure out like who the
00:11:40best three year old was, we were talking ourselves into a lot of horses.
00:11:44There's no talking yourself into Jack Christopher.
00:11:46It's self evident how special he is.
00:11:49And he does things we haven't seen yet from anybody else in this crowd.
00:11:52Now, does that mean he's going to be the champion at the end of the year?
00:11:55Not necessarily.
00:11:56Does it even mean he's going to be a factor in the Traverse?
00:11:58Not necessarily.
00:11:59We haven't seen him go further than a one turn mile.
00:12:02He's gonna he's gonna have to go 10 furlongs to do that.
00:12:04But if he's anything at two turns, like he is going one turn, someone's gonna have to
00:12:09develop significantly in the second half of the year to catch up to him, because that
00:12:14was the kind of performance that clearly stamped.
00:12:16I'm the king of the hill.
00:12:17I'm the top dog amongst the three year olds.
00:12:20And you guys all are going to have to come catch me now.
00:12:22And in other words, I cannot wait to see, you know, Flightline might go to the Pacific
00:12:27Classic next.
00:12:28I'm hoping he goes to the to the Whitney like, come on, guys, you don't you don't want to
00:12:31stretch him out all the way to a mile and a quarter yet, do you?
00:12:33You come on.
00:12:34Just take him a mile and a half.
00:12:37So I can go see him, you know, and then and then go to a mile and a quarter in the classic.
00:12:41But yeah, and Jack Christopher is going to the Haskell next, which I think makes a lot
00:12:44of sense.
00:12:45He's, you know, typically a speed favoring surface mile and an eighth, you know, a little
00:12:50bit more kind to to speed horses than the Jim Dandy and a little bit more of a tiring
00:12:55track up at Saratoga.
00:12:57But I'm assuming he's going to go Haskell, Travers and then Breeders Cup.
00:13:00But yeah, I mean, tell me tell me what three year old you've seen this year that matches
00:13:05up even close to what we saw in the Woody Stevens.
00:13:08Yeah, I mean, a couple of points I want to go back to flight line first.
00:13:11And Joe, it's interesting.
00:13:12You know, we're all playing the game.
00:13:14Where will he run next?
00:13:16And, you know, after the race, Sadler said, I don't know.
00:13:19And the cost of Saronis said, oh, wow, the Pacific Classic, which took me a little bit
00:13:23by surprise because, you know, the horse has gone seven forings Malibu, one mile in the
00:13:28Met mile.
00:13:29And then the final goal will be mile and a quarter in the Breeders Cup Classic.
00:13:31And you would think that a mile and a eighth in the Whitney would fit right in there and
00:13:35you wouldn't want to go a mile and a quarter.
00:13:37But I'm just wondering, you know, he's one of those horses that's owned by like one hundred
00:13:40and forty two different owners type of thing.
00:13:43Costas Saronis is a West Coast guy, Terry Finley's an East Coast guy.
00:13:47I don't even know how they reached this decision, who has what kind of voting power.
00:13:51But you know, if there's going to be a little bit of, you know, tug of war there, the West
00:13:54Coast guys want to see him run at Belmar.
00:13:57East Coast guys want to see him run at Saratoga.
00:14:00So far as playing the game where they're going to run next, Jack Christopher Haskell,
00:14:05then Joe, no chance he goes in the Travers because Chad Brown has Zanden and early voting
00:14:11pegged in for that race.
00:14:12And also, God forbid, you can't run a horse back in four or five weeks, whatever that
00:14:15is, because you can't just can't do that.
00:14:17They'd fall apart.
00:14:18They'd melt.
00:14:19So my prediction is Haskell, skip Travers, Pennsylvania Derby, Breeders Cup Classic.
00:14:26But yeah, I mean, you could take some of the conversation we just had about Flightline
00:14:30and just change it around to Jack Christopher, he's kind of the three-year-old version of
00:14:35Flightline.
00:14:36And you're right.
00:14:37You know, when the NTRA poll came out that they didn't have Jack Christopher on top in
00:14:41there for the who's the best, I was like what are you talking about, people not paying attention
00:14:45here.
00:14:46I know he didn't win any of the Triple Crown races, but he is just he's just better than
00:14:50these horses.
00:14:51And probably by quite a bit, he's a super exciting horse.
00:14:55I hope he holds up and I hope he, you know, is again, and this never works out because
00:15:01it's horse racing and we never get this lucky.
00:15:04There's no chance Flightline and Jack Christopher would meet before the Breeders Cup Classic.
00:15:08Do you imagine them both being undefeated and then meeting in the Breeders Cup Classic?
00:15:12Talk about worth the price of admission.
00:15:15But yeah, I mean, I've been been a huge fan of this horse ever since he broke his maiden.
00:15:20Very disappointing to see him miss the Triple Crown.
00:15:22But, you know, now he's got a chance to just totally make up for it.
00:15:26And he is sensational.
00:15:28Yeah, no, both of them were eye opening and, you know, eye catching kind of races.
00:15:37And I also think that Clary Eyre ran a pretty good race in the Ogden FIPS also, which is
00:15:42another great one.
00:15:43And, you know, she had the battle for it.
00:15:45I mean, unlike these two colts that we talked about, she actually really had to battle hard
00:15:50to win that race.
00:15:52And, you know, just came out of it with a 106 buyer, which is by far a career best for
00:15:56her.
00:15:57So she's really trending in the right direction.
00:15:59You know, the current line out of Bernardini mare, I mean, it's classically bred, you know,
00:16:04and she just keeps adding to to her illustrious career in the same token as we're gushing
00:16:11over Flightline, Jack Christopher and Clary Eyre.
00:16:15I got to say, I was disappointed with the for the first time with the way Latruska ran.
00:16:19I mean, she she thrown a clunker, unfortunately, and, you know, she had thrown a clunker in
00:16:25the Breeders' Cup disc staff and then came back and won a grade three and a grade one.
00:16:29And guys, I wonder if she's kind of at the end of her road at this point.
00:16:35I know they brought her back as a six year old, which was really great for racing.
00:16:39And I don't want to push the panic button, but I wonder if maybe her best races are behind
00:16:44her. And I would hate to see her kind of scuffle along and maybe not run to that potential
00:16:50that I remember her, you know, in such high regard.
00:16:54And the other one that that I was like concerned about is Echo Zulu getting scratched at
00:16:59the gate. I mean, that's that was a big story that we didn't talk about yet.
00:17:04You know, is the even money favored in the acorn in a five horse field and she gets to the
00:17:07gate and Rosario, you know, and the vets decided that she wasn't sound enough to run in
00:17:13that race. That was a huge shocker for me, at least that she got so close and then and
00:17:19then didn't get to run because they go through so much scrutiny now on the backstretch,
00:17:24you know, with vets constantly looking at the horses and state stewards constantly at the
00:17:27horses. And for a good reason, don't get me wrong, I don't want to get rid of that
00:17:31process. But it surprised me that like literally the 11th hour, 59th minute is when she
00:17:37got scratched. And I guess getting scratched is better than her getting hurt potentially
00:17:42and ending her career, if not worse.
00:17:45But that was a takeaway for me on this great part was that a couple of fillies and mares
00:17:50didn't live up to our expectations of them.
00:17:53Yeah, that was, you know, always, always want to have, you know, be better safe than sorry
00:17:59with that kind of thing. But yeah, that took a lot of starch out of that race, obviously,
00:18:03which was basically a two horse race on paper became a one horse race on paper at the gate.
00:18:07So we hope that Echo Zulu is OK.
00:18:08It sounds like from the early report, she's going to have some more tests.
00:18:11But it sounds like from the early report, she's fine.
00:18:14And then she was scratched out of an abundance of caution, which I think is overall a very
00:18:18good thing. You know, that last line of defense could, you know, could save a horse's life
00:18:22or, you know, save an injury or something like that.
00:18:24And so, you know, shout out to the people at the gate who did the right thing, I think, in
00:18:29that case. Yeah.
00:18:30I mean, you mentioned Clarriere.
00:18:32That was a terrific race.
00:18:33That was a terrific stretch battle.
00:18:35And Malatha ran the best race of her life.
00:18:37You know, this this is that was one of those, you know, she's one of those horses that I
00:18:41think it's people overrate wins a little bit.
00:18:44You know, she had this record, this like stellar record of all these wins, but she really
00:18:48hadn't run that many fast races.
00:18:50She was like she was kind of one of the slowest champions I can remember, you know,
00:18:54because, you know, she obviously ran some good races, but nothing that really knocked
00:18:58your socks off. I thought that was clearly the best race of her life, battling
00:19:02Clarriere in the Ogden Fifths.
00:19:04And yeah, Latruska, the pace was was pretty quick, but I didn't think it was a good sign
00:19:09that she threw in the towel before search results did, you know, and search results was
00:19:13always going better than her on the turn.
00:19:16So I thought, yeah, I thought that was a pretty disappointing effort from Latruska.
00:19:19Hopefully she's OK and she can bounce back from that.
00:19:22But yeah, that was definitely the worst race I've seen her run in a little bit.
00:19:26Just a couple other horses and races I wanted to mention.
00:19:30How about Sir Buvin in the in the Manhattan, just gunned down to the front by Manny
00:19:34Franco. I hope some riders take heed of that, you know, in New York turf races,
00:19:39sometimes you can succeed by actually going to the front instead of stopping on the
00:19:43brakes for the first half mile.
00:19:45So he got a 108 by Chad Brown.
00:19:47Chad Brown had four horses in there.
00:19:49None were the favorite. The shortest price was Adamo at like nine to two.
00:19:53The other three were all double digits and he wins the race at like 17 or 18 to one.
00:19:57So you just you can't beat Chad even when it looks like on paper he doesn't have
00:20:01necessarily the strongest contention that he usually has.
00:20:05Regal Glory won the Jesta game, which was super impressive.
00:20:09And he also won the New York, which is a new grade one with Bleaker Street, who's now
00:20:13seven for seven. I just keep discounting her and keep throwing her out.
00:20:16She keeps jumping up and beating me.
00:20:18But I thought in those two races, the story was a little bit more who didn't show up.
00:20:24I thought Speak of the Devil was very disappointing in the Jesta game.
00:20:27And I thought what's her name?
00:20:29Ruggier was pretty disappointing in the New York.
00:20:31I thought those were two horses that were going to run big this weekend.
00:20:35And they just honestly didn't really show up.
00:20:37Matt Araya won the Acorn after Echo Zulu scratched.
00:20:41Fearless won the Brooklyn for Mike Rapoli.
00:20:43It was a hell of a day for Mike Rapoli, which we're going to talk about in a second.
00:20:46There was a little discussion about the figures, the buyer figures in that race, because
00:20:49Fearless got a 95 and Moe Donegal got a 98, even though Moe Donegal, I think, ran over two
00:20:54seconds faster than Fearless did going a mile and a half.
00:20:58So there was some discussion about that and that maybe either the Belmont figure should
00:21:03have been higher or the Brooklyn figure should have been much lower.
00:21:06But that's for people much smarter than me to to figure out.
00:21:09And it was just one horse outside of Belmont I wanted to mention was Cyberknife in the
00:21:13Matwin. There was a great battle in the Matwin between Cyberknife and Howling Time.
00:21:17Cyberknife's a horse that I think both of those horses might be OK, but Cyberknife's kind
00:21:21of under the radar. Three-year-old who won the Arkansas Derby, who could maybe factor in
00:21:25some of these races this summer.
00:21:26But yeah, the weekend, other than the Belmont, was all about Flightline and Jack Christopher.
00:21:31We're blessed to see them run.
00:21:33And yeah, hopefully, like Bill says, we can we can get them undefeated to the to the final
00:21:37big dance of the year in the Breeders' Cup.
00:21:39So after this break, we're going to talk about the Belmont, because it had its own
00:21:43storylines as well. The CDN Writers Room was brought to you by Keeneland.
00:21:47Keeneland's September sales grad swept the top three placings in this weekend's Belmont,
00:21:51which is pretty impressive.
00:21:52Moe Donegal cost $250,000 at KeySep and is the 10th Keeneland sales graduate to win the
00:21:57Belmont since 2006.
00:21:59That's a pretty good record. Five stakes winners from this year's Keeneland Spring Meet are
00:22:03among the horses scheduled to compete this week at the prestigious Royal Ascot meeting.
00:22:07Golden Pal ran in Tuesday's Group One Kingstand.
00:22:10Fortunately, did not run great, but you know, he was off a little bit slow, had to rush up
00:22:14there. And just maybe Europe isn't quite for him, but he's obviously the best turf
00:22:19sprinter in America. Look forward to seeing him back here on these shores.
00:22:22Campanell, who won the Giants causeway stakes at Keeneland, is going to be in Saturday's
00:22:27Group One Platinum Jubilee.
00:22:28Another Wesley Ward, Stone Street, Philly, Ruthann, who won the Limestone stakes last
00:22:32out at Keeneland, runs on Friday's Palace of Holy Rood House.
00:22:37I don't know. I don't know if I'm saying that right.
00:22:39Some of my European listeners are going to yell at me about that.
00:22:42Also Friday, Keeneland's September sales grad and grade two Appalachian winner, Spenderella,
00:22:47really looking forward to seeing her run.
00:22:48Daughter of Caracanti entered in the Group One Coronation, and then the Palisades winner,
00:22:53Slipstream, will run in the Group One Commonwealth Cup.
00:22:56Obviously a very exciting time to see these more and more U.S.
00:23:00participation over Royal Ascot.
00:23:01There wasn't such a big weekend here.
00:23:03We probably would talk about it a little more.
00:23:05But yeah, that's Keeneland Meet.
00:23:07You know, it started with Wesley Ward, but I think there are a lot of trainers who are
00:23:11starting to use that Keeneland Spring Meet as a springboard to Royal Ascot with these turf
00:23:15horses. And it's super exciting.
00:23:17So definitely great opportunities abound in that Spring Meet.
00:23:20Then Keeneland's September coming up before you know it.
00:23:22And then the Fall Meet. So we're looking forward to those as well.
00:23:24So we'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:23:27Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Keeneland September Yearly
00:23:41Sale. A terrific maternal pedigree, Grade One winners and champions across the
00:23:47day. Go to the back.
00:23:54Good luck.
00:23:58Spicetown, Bunnings, Echotown, It's Echotown for Joe Palermo and Echotown breaks the wave and Echotown is drawing away in the stretch, Echotown wins the Alan Turkin Stakes.
00:24:19A sire line so prolific it repeats itself, Echotown.
00:24:28The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:24:31Outstanding Belmont weekend for Ashford Sires, starting, of course, with Belmont Stakes winner Moe Donegal by Uncle Moe.
00:24:38We're going to talk about him, obviously, in a little bit.
00:24:40Moe Donegal is the second U.S.
00:24:41Classic winner for Uncle Moe, now has 11 Grade One winners, which is a remarkable total with at least one hailing from each of his seven crops three years old and older.
00:24:51That's a great nugget by Katie.
00:24:53That's impressive.
00:24:53That's an impressive level of consistency for, obviously, a superstar stallion.
00:24:58And the other big winner was Woody Stevens' victor, Jack Christopher, who's now one of 11 Stakes winners for Munnings.
00:25:04Already this year, Munnings is really exploding.
00:25:08The Coolmore group is one of several partners in on Jack Christopher.
00:25:11It's going to have such an exciting year ahead of him and, yeah, really carrying the flag for Munnings.
00:25:15Not that Munnings needs one specific horse because horses are running all over the place.
00:25:21So we did contest the Belmont Stakes on Saturday, and it was a great scene, honestly.
00:25:26And we talked to Mike Rapoli a couple of weeks ago on the show.
00:25:30It was before the Derby and the Oaks, and he was talking about running Nest in the Belmont.
00:25:35Even then, he ran her in the Belmont, and she ran a great race after stumbling at the start to be second.
00:25:40Only second best to his Moe Donegal and Donegal Racing's really progressive three-year-old colt.
00:25:47We talked to Jerry Crawford this week on the show of Donegal Racing, and he's obviously another great supporter of the game.
00:25:52So it was really nice to see two guys who have put so much money and so much effort into this game
00:25:57and who really care about winning these classic races, especially the Belmont in Mike Rapoli's case, get that done.
00:26:03As far as the actual race went, to me, what I saw was two horses who wanted to go a mile and a half
00:26:09and then six horses who need a bus ticket to get a mile and a half.
00:26:13That was my feeling. That was my takeaway.
00:26:15We the people got an easy lead. He was who I was on, and I just never thought he looked super comfortable on the lead,
00:26:21even though the fractions were pretty tame, pressed a little bit by Skippy Longstocking.
00:26:26Those two packed it in. Basically, Moe Donegal and Nest had it to themselves in the stretch.
00:26:30Mainly, Moe Donegal got a typically great ride and great trip under Irat Ortiz Jr.
00:26:36I think he's probably a slight cut below the Jack Christophers and the real top three goals in the division,
00:26:45but he's a stayer. He wants to go a mile and a quarter and up.
00:26:48I think he's set up well for the Travers and the Breeders' Cup Classic if he gets some pace.
00:26:53What did you guys think of the Belmont?
00:26:55The story was, in many regards, Rapoli. What a good guy he is.
00:27:00The money he gives away to charities is just astronomical.
00:27:05He's this wealthy, wealthy mega. Is he a billionaire? Probably. I don't know the money.
00:27:12He's still just this regular guy from Queens. You can't help but root for a guy like that.
00:27:18The joy that came out of it, that resonated with him, his feelings, really put a smile on your face to see this guy win.
00:27:28Not only did he win with Moe Donegal, but he took a shot. We talk about people who don't take a shot enough in a race.
00:27:35He took a shot with Nest. She ran great, just like you said, Joe.
00:27:39She ran second, had a little bit of trouble. She wasn't going to beat Moe Donegal, even if she had a perfectly clean trip.
00:27:44But she ran really, really well.
00:27:46Moe Donegal is a very good horse. He's one of several horses this year among the three.
00:27:53You can all lump them together, you and I, and I guess John, too, thinking they're all behind Jack Christopher.
00:28:01He's set up well for the Travers, etc.
00:28:04I know the buyers aren't everything, but a 97 buyer doesn't get you too excited about a horse.
00:28:09Matter of fact, he's never broken 100, never got into the triple-digit buyer number.
00:28:13That's something that you can take a little bit of a knock against him.
00:28:17I wanted to mention this earlier when we were talking about the other races.
00:28:20Another story that came out of the weekend, and it's an ongoing story that you and Joe, John, and myself talk about in Everybody in Racing.
00:28:31There were nine Graded Stakes races run at Belmont on Saturday.
00:28:34Seven of them were won by the top four trainers in the country in earnings, Brad Cox, Steve Asmussen, Chad Brown, and Todd Pletcher.
00:28:43The eighth race was won by Bill Mott in the Jiper.
00:28:46He's sixth in the country in earnings.
00:28:49The lone holdout was John Sadler in the Met Mile. He's 19th.
00:28:53John Sadler is not exactly a guy with four horses at Charlestown, let's put it that way.
00:28:58The dominance of these guys is getting more dominant by the day.
00:29:05The Eric Reid story was a great story.
00:29:09A guy coming out of Ohio, never had a horse like Rick Strike in his life.
00:29:14We can see what an aberration that is, and that's not the real story.
00:29:18By the way, another story on Belmont.
00:29:21Rick Strike is no bum. I would never say that.
00:29:24We found out in the Belmont, what I think you and I and maybe a lot of people thought we would find out,
00:29:30that the Derby was all about him getting this tremendous trip and a pace meltdown.
00:29:35He had to have everything go his own way.
00:29:38All things being equal, where he didn't get that super crazy good trip in the Belmont,
00:29:43he is what he is, a horse that's probably six or seven lengths inferior to the best three-year-olds that he faced in the Belmont.
00:29:50Yeah, just to piggyback on what you were saying, Bill,
00:29:53I think for Rick Strike, we all agreed that it was just a shocker Derby winner.
00:29:58He jumped up from an 84 to a 101 buyer, which is a lifetime best.
00:30:02Is he that good of a horse? I don't think so.
00:30:05I think circumstances showed that he was fortunate.
00:30:08Is he a $30,000 claimer, which is how they acquired him in the first place?
00:30:12No, he's somewhere in the middle, but I guess he didn't deserve to be 81 to 1 in the Derby.
00:30:20He certainly didn't deserve to be 4 to 1 in the Belmont.
00:30:23It just goes to show you how much the betting public knows or doesn't know about these big races.
00:30:32I think that you guys hit on most of the major topics.
00:30:38It was great to see a guy like Mike Rapoli.
00:30:41You got to root for him.
00:30:42I don't root for too many billionaires, but he's a guy that you just really gravitate towards somebody like that
00:30:49because he's just like a normal guy.
00:30:51He just has a lot bigger checking account than all of us, but he just seems like a regular dude.
00:30:58If it wasn't for Modonical being in the race, we'd be talking about,
00:31:01hey, there was a filly that won the Belmont.
00:31:03This doesn't happen that often, and look how great this is.
00:31:06No shame in Ness finishing second in the Belmont and was one horse away from hoisting the trophy.
00:31:14Kudos to that crew for opting to run both of them and have the Rapoli pletcher exact the box.
00:31:22I think the other thing that, again, just from a breeding standpoint that I want to bring up is the fact that
00:31:28Indian Charlie wasn't a stallion for what a normal stallion would have for his career.
00:31:36It was cut short because he died of cancer.
00:31:38The same thing as his racing career was cut short because of an injury.
00:31:41He only ran five times.
00:31:44His genetic makeup and his skills have transcended to some of his offspring with Uncle Mo
00:31:54and now with Modonical and all the things that Uncle Mo has done.
00:31:57He's perennially one of the best sires in the country.
00:32:01He himself was, I believe he was a two-year-old champion, right, guys?
00:32:04He was a two-year-old champion, Uncle Mo?
00:32:05Yeah.
00:32:07Uncle Mo, going back to Indian Charlie, and then we see Flightline is out of an Indian Charlie mare.
00:32:14Indian Charlie was not part of the gene pool for very long, but he made an emphatic impression on the gene pool.
00:32:23People are clamoring for Indian Charlie in their pedigrees now, much the same as they were 10 years ago.
00:32:30They were clamoring for Tapit, and before that, they were clamoring for Stormcat.
00:32:34It just goes to show you how quickly the important genes in the breed can come to light,
00:32:42depending on where we're running or the surface we're running in and things like that.
00:32:47I don't want to make this into a, we never should have had the 140 mare rule because it's abolished and we don't have to worry about it.
00:32:52I think it just goes to show you that the gene pool eventually will come through and come to light.
00:32:59The good ones will continue to run and they'll get bred to 200 mares and keep pushing it forward.
00:33:04Indian Charlie is going to turn out to be one of these great impact sires with a very small pool of horses that he produced.
00:33:13For sure. He's starting to have a little bit, obviously he wasn't around as long, but a little bit of that Mr. Prospector type influence
00:33:20where he shows up in the second dam or the dam of a lot of really good horses.
00:33:25The only thing I'll say about Red Strike is I'm pretty sure he could have run like that in the Pregnis off two weeks rest.
00:33:31They gave him five weeks for the Belmont just to stink up the joint.
00:33:36But listen, they got to do what they think is right for the horse and he'll always be a Derby winner.
00:33:40No one can ever take that away from him.
00:33:42We'll see what he does the rest of the year.
00:33:44I thought it was really fitting, honestly, in a year where we mostly talked about how the non-Derby races were becoming less important.
00:33:52The trainers, everybody tried to figure out how to fix the Triple Crown.
00:33:56We saw a guy in Mike Rapoli who wanted nothing more than to win the Belmont, accomplish that dream.
00:34:02You saw how much it meant to him, like you guys were saying, and how elated all of his family and friends were.
00:34:07That was such an unbelievably great video and reaction with all of his family and friends climbing all over him.
00:34:16It was so wholesome.
00:34:20Like you said, I don't typically root for billionaires in this game, but Mike Rapoli is Mike from Queens.
00:34:27He's a guy who has stayed true to himself, who happens to be a billionaire.
00:34:32That was incredible to watch.
00:34:34Not to mention everybody at Donegal Racing.
00:34:36Like I said, we talked to Jerry Crawford.
00:34:38It was great to see all of those partners get to enjoy that success.
00:34:42They're a partnership that really has a plan in place and spends a lot of money in racing.
00:34:48That was great to see those kind of people rewarded.
00:34:52How about the reaction from Irado Ortiz?
00:34:54He was bawling after the race when he was galloping out.
00:34:59It meant so much to him, too.
00:35:01That was a really beautiful thing.
00:35:03It was a beautiful scene and a reminder that the Belmont Stakes still mean something.
00:35:08Some people talk about what an anachronism it is for three-year-olds to run 12 furlongs or race more than once every six weeks.
00:35:14The Triple Crown and the Belmont still mean something.
00:35:17It was great to see connections who really instinctively and inherently get that and build their schedules around these races actually get to win them.
00:35:29The same thing happened in the Preakness, if you remember, because Seth Klarman is from Baltimore and he's from Maryland.
00:35:34He won the Preakness.
00:35:35That meant something to him in a race that a lot of people skipped because it doesn't mean enough to them.
00:35:40It was nice to see connections who I thought really cared about the non-derby Triple Crown races win them when so many others didn't even care to show up.
00:35:48Joe, the fact that you're rooting for somebody from Queens, I think, is a surprise.
00:35:53I told him.
00:35:54I was like, I think you finally put Queens on the map with this win.
00:35:58Congratulations.
00:35:59Exactly.
00:36:00How about the Duke of Brooklyn?
00:36:02He won the Brooklyn, too.
00:36:04He's making coffee for that.
00:36:05Go ahead, Joe.
00:36:06Did you guys see when they were interviewing Ripolli on the post-race when he was sitting at the box and the guy was like holding up the product placement right behind him?
00:36:15Yeah.
00:36:18That was great.
00:36:19I was laughing so hard about that because he was trying to be inconspicuous and he was like.
00:36:24Is the next product that Ripolli is going to sell to Coca-Cola for $86 billion?
00:36:30I'm sure.
00:36:31I'm sure.
00:36:32I just thought that was so funny.
00:36:33And now there's so many memes about it, like people holding up random things behind him, like random products.
00:36:40Oh, I love technology.
00:36:41That was great.
00:36:42Great television all around.
00:36:43We'd love to see it.
00:36:45The TDN Writers Room was brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:36:48Pennsylvania bred Caravelle got her second graded stakes win last weekend in the Grade 3 Intercontinental Stakes on Thursday, or rather Friday, excuse me.
00:36:57Five-year-old was bred and trained by Elizabeth Merriman before she was sold at last year's Fasig-Tippin November sale for $500,000 to Qatar Racing, Mark the Temple, and Matticket Stables.
00:37:08Also, a reminder about those PHBA upcoming two-year-old PA Sired, PA Bred Stallion Series stakes.
00:37:14Nominations are free, but the deadline to nominate to be eligible is July 11th at Park.
00:37:19So get those nominations in.
00:37:20Definitely giving away some good money to help boost that PA bred, PA Sired program.
00:37:25So a worthwhile endeavor.
00:37:26And if you have a PA bred or PA Sired horse, as John mentioned, there were a lot of them at the two-year-old sales, relatively speaking, a lot of PA breds.
00:37:34So definitely, if you've got a new one and you like in the barn, definitely enter one of those races.
00:37:39Nominations are free, like I said.
00:37:41There's nothing to lose, and they're giving away some good money.
00:37:43So we'll be right back after this message from the PHBA.
00:37:47The PA Horse Breeders Association introduces the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:37:52Four brand-new races to be run at parks for PA Sired, PA Bred two-year-olds.
00:37:57There are two $100,000 contests on August 22nd, PA Day at the Races.
00:38:03September 24th, PA Derby Day has two more races, each with a $200,000 purse.
00:38:08The PA Stallion Series, yet another reason why Pennsylvania is the premier place to breed and race.
00:38:14For more, please visit pabred.com.
00:38:18The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group,
00:38:20an accounting, tax, consulting, and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:38:25With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:38:29Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:38:34So we are thrilled to welcome in the CEO of Donegal Racing,
00:38:37the co-owner of Belmont Steaks winner Mo Donegal, Jerry Crawford.
00:38:40Thanks for coming on.
00:38:42Thanks very much for having me.
00:38:43It's been an exciting time, as you can imagine.
00:38:46It's been an amazing, it was an amazing weekend.
00:38:49You know, Mike Rapoli was joking.
00:38:51The co-owner was joking about how it was the biggest winner's circle probably in Belmont history.
00:38:55And so that's something that I don't, you know, maybe not everybody knows about Donegal.
00:38:58You guys buy one group of horses every year that everybody, all the partners are invested in.
00:39:03I'm sure that managing such a big partnership has its challenges,
00:39:06but it also on days like that has to be really rewarding to make that many people happy.
00:39:11So can you talk about what an experience that was to share such a big win with so many partners?
00:39:15I'd be glad to.
00:39:17Let me start at the micro level and tell you that when we had about 350 people at the Kentucky Derby,
00:39:23I about had enough phone calls saying, hey, Jerry, can we get two double beds in our room instead of one king bed?
00:39:32I mean, you know, you develop a relationship with each partner, right?
00:39:37And so, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade it for anything.
00:39:42And we had over 200 at the Belmont. I think Mike had 80 some.
00:39:48And, yeah, he's been giving me a hard time saying he never thought he'd be partners with somebody who brought more people to the races than he did.
00:39:55But the key thing about everybody owning part of every horse is that nobody ever gets disappointed.
00:40:02If we have a big horse in any year and this year we have at least a couple with with Moe Donegal and with ready to perform on the grass.
00:40:12And so everybody owns part of those two horses and they don't get left out or feel left out because they bought the wrong one.
00:40:20So, yeah, I wouldn't have it any other way. Jerry, congratulations on a great day.
00:40:25And the Donegal principle or guiding force or light is simple.
00:40:31You say to your partners every year our goal is to win the Kentucky Derby and you even call the partnerships the Derby Dream Stables.
00:40:37Could you tell us why you've made that singular goal above and beyond all else and why you're so focused on that one goal?
00:40:46So really, the truth of the matter is all our partners know is that our goal is to own classic distance.
00:40:55Winners Derby dreams is a little catchier as a title.
00:41:00And and certainly we do focus on the Triple Crown.
00:41:05It's it's our hope that by doing that and by running classic distances, two things happen.
00:41:11One is that you produce by accident some very good turf runners.
00:41:16Like, for example, we had Arco, who's now eight years old and still running. We had Arco on the Derby trail.
00:41:22It was pretty clear that he had a turf style. We switched him over and he's won several million dollars since we did that.
00:41:29So you get you get some turf runners in addition to classic distance dirt runners.
00:41:35There are a lot of wonderful sprinters. We think of a sprint as a mile and a sixteenth or less.
00:41:42But that's not what we're interested in. We think it's good for the breed to develop classic courses.
00:41:48And that's the way we approach. Well, I just want to follow up on that.
00:41:53I agree with you that I think it is good for the breed to focus on route horses.
00:41:57Where do you fall on? There's been a lot of discussion about horses running less frequently and the Triple Crown possibly needing more spacing.
00:42:04Where do you fall on that in terms of running horses more frequently?
00:42:08Because there's a there's a discussion about whether or not babying them more and running them only a handful of times a year weakens the breed.
00:42:15What do you think about that? But, you know, that's something we talk about pretty regularly with Todd Pletcher and Brad Cox, who are two trainers.
00:42:27And I would have to say that we're more in the middle.
00:42:32You know, and I also I maybe I'm kidding myself, but I think that when I go and spend time with a horse in the stall, you get a vibe.
00:42:41You get an energy vibe one way or another. And Todd is obviously superb at this.
00:42:46And so we always say we let the horse tell us. And I'll give you a real time example.
00:42:53Our likely path is to run next in the Traverse, but maybe the horse tells us he needs a race before that.
00:43:02And so we'll be trying to balance those two things when you want to culminate the year potentially in the Breeders' Cup.
00:43:09You don't want to over race your horse on that campaign.
00:43:13And these horses, most of the three year olds have been running since they started.
00:43:18Not many had long time offs. I mean, we had Mo Donegal had a temperature for a couple of weeks.
00:43:25But other than that, you know, they've been campaigning right along.
00:43:28And so not clogging up Mo Donegal's racing calendar could be of benefit.
00:43:36And Jerry, tell us how the partnership with Mike Rapoli came about.
00:43:40He bought Bison, I believe, before the Derby. Correct me if I'm wrong, if it was before the Wood Memorial.
00:43:45But, you know, here's a guy, he's a high profile guy, loves the game.
00:43:48Obviously, we saw the jubilation in him on Saturday to have won the Belmont Stakes.
00:43:53But how did this come about and was it an easy decision to bring Mike aboard?
00:43:58The first thing I did when I heard of his interest was I talked to Todd.
00:44:04Obviously, we're close to Todd. Mike's closer yet to Todd.
00:44:08They've had a longer and more exclusive relationship.
00:44:12And I just said to Todd, tell me about Mike.
00:44:16Do you feel like this would be a good partnership?
00:44:18Because the financial aspects of it were very lucrative for Donegal.
00:44:25And I don't have to tell you, finding a way to survive financially as owners, it's really hard.
00:44:33And an opportunity for a big payday for our partners was a key fact in it.
00:44:40There's been a lot made of the fact that Mike got to wear his silks.
00:44:44I am simultaneously really pleased that we made it possible for Mike to wear his silks in his hometown and pissed off about it.
00:44:54Because I would have loved for those to be our silks coming down the lane.
00:44:58But, you know, you can't have it both ways.
00:45:01And I have no doubt that what we did was the best for the partnership.
00:45:06Some of you may or may not remember Thomas Wolfe's famous book, A Man in Full.
00:45:12It was about a character of a man who was bigger than life.
00:45:16And I sort of feel like that's what I've tied onto with Mike Rapoli.
00:45:21You can say that again.
00:45:23One of the horses that carried your silks, I think, to your biggest win before Saturday was Keen Ice in the Travers when he upset American Pharoah.
00:45:31It was interesting that Keen Ice had a Derby winner.
00:45:33Obviously, you were disappointed when Mo Donegal didn't win the Derby.
00:45:37But did you take any pride in seeing a son of Keen Ice beat you in the Derby?
00:45:41Yeah, I mean, you used the right word.
00:45:43I mean, we were we were very, very proud to have been the people who picked Keen Ice at the yearling sale and then have him.
00:45:52Fortunately or unfortunately, I guess that since we weren't second, I'm glad he won because it certainly flatters Keen Ice,
00:46:00who was a very special horse and just a stunning victory when up in Saratoga he beat American Pharaoh.
00:46:09I always stop to thank the Zayats in any conversation like this because they were true sports people in running American Pharoah.
00:46:19They didn't have to do that. And the new owners didn't have to do that.
00:46:25But by being sporting and putting the horse in the race, it gave us a chance for one of the biggest days in the history of horse racing.
00:46:34And so I can't say enough about Keen Ice or the Zayats for that matter.
00:46:40Mo Donegal cost $250,000, Keen Ice $120,000, Patio Prado $105,000.
00:46:47It seems like you guys are willing to go up into that $200 neighborhood, but we're not seeing you buy any horses for seven figures or anything like that.
00:46:55So, you know, kind of what is your strategy and what is your comfort in the pricing of a horse at the yearling sales?
00:47:02Well, I'm sure I'd feel differently if I was a consigner, but I think it's stupid to spend that much money on a thoroughbred.
00:47:09I don't think it makes economic sense. But $250,000 was the most we spent on any of our nine horses last year.
00:47:17It's more than we spent on any horse the year before that.
00:47:21Let me tell you, every year it gets harder and harder to buy the kind of horses we want in the price point we stick to.
00:47:31It's just very, very difficult to do that. But that is what we will continue to try and do.
00:47:38And hopefully we can continue to have the same results.
00:47:44I know you guys use algorithms at the sales to try.
00:47:48That is such a fascinating thing to me because it's one thing to use algorithms handicapping the races.
00:47:55Then I think there are a limited, finite number of factors that you can put into the computer.
00:48:01But at the sales, it seems like such a more, you know, kind of murky thing.
00:48:05And there are so many things that are just based on someone's eye or someone's opinion without giving away the secret sauce.
00:48:12How do you kind of boil all of the things that could go into a sale down to an algorithm?
00:48:17Well, that's a question I've heard before.
00:48:21And you're right. You're right. It's not something we want to go into ultimate detail on.
00:48:26I'm reminded of Sheikh Mohammed, who wrote an autobiography.
00:48:31And in it, he said, until you get to the point in the horse business where the person you trust to make the decisions is the person watching you shave in the morning.
00:48:42Until you get to that point, you can't afford to be in horse racing.
00:48:47And I've taken that to heart. You know, if there's a bad decision or we buy a bad horse, everybody knows whose fault it is.
00:48:55It's mine because I'm the one who made that decision.
00:48:59It's certainly I'll take just a minute and tell you about how this the algorithm came to pass about 2003 or so.
00:49:08My son, Connor, and I were talking about why we always get our asses kicked betting on the Kentucky Derby.
00:49:14It seemed like one long shot after another would come along and we would be out of it.
00:49:18And we decided to try and find an algorithm that would help us pick a winner in the Kentucky Derby.
00:49:23This is way before Donegal. And so what we learned was or what we discovered was we couldn't we could not figure out an algorithm to pick a winner.
00:49:31But what we were able to do was we were able to pick horses that could not win.
00:49:38And so, you know, 20 horses in the gate, if you're picking one out of 20, you have one kind of chance.
00:49:44And if you're picking one out of four, let's say you have a much better chance.
00:49:48And so I said to my very patient wife, Linda, I'm going to I'm going to take two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to Lexington to the yearling sale and buy a horse that fits our algorithm.
00:50:01And she was cool with it. And I came to Lexington and that's September of 2008 when the stock market crashed.
00:50:09And when the stock market crashes, people stop buying boats and diamonds and racehorses and all the rest.
00:50:14And I ended up buying eight horses at that sale for four hundred and five thousand dollars because of the market.
00:50:22And one of those horses was eventual stakes winner Patio Prado, who finished third in the Kentucky Derby and fit our algorithm to a tee.
00:50:32And so that's sort of how we've proceeded. I did worry flying home from that sale that there was going to be hell to pay when I told my wife I bought eight horses, not one.
00:50:43But we got through that and it's been good since.
00:50:50Jerry, I'm going to hit you with a real hard journalistic probing question.
00:50:55I don't know what's the story with the ice cream.
00:50:58The story with the ice cream. Well, there's a there's a tremendous ice cream shop with tremendous soft serve ice cream in Saratoga.
00:51:07And we've been going to it, unfortunately, far too often and enjoying that ice cream.
00:51:13And I talked to the young owner and we agreed that I would make an announcement that if if keen eyes meet American Pharaoh, there would be free ice cream cones for kids 14 and under on Sunday.
00:51:28And as the ice cream purveyor later said, a lot of those 14 year olds were dressed like 19 year olds.
00:51:35We had a we had I think eight hundred and something ice cream cones that day.
00:51:39And so I just thought it was so much fun.
00:51:43Probably, probably a little easier to explain to kids in Saratoga than kids in Des Moines.
00:51:49What what this is all about. But they you know, the local press has been terrific.
00:51:54And so people know of what happened and we decided we'd reprise the ice cream cone from Saratoga.
00:52:01And so the day from three to six p.m. in Iowa, in downtown Des Moines, kids 14 and under, big kids, too.
00:52:09We'll get free ice cream cones that are yellow and green.
00:52:13The yellow is lemon flavor and the green ice cream purveyor told me is dunny golf flavored.
00:52:19What the hell does that mean? I have no idea.
00:52:22But anyway, that's the program for today.
00:52:24I was going to say, if Moe Donegal wins the Travers and you want to extend it to thirty five and under as well.
00:52:31But no, I'll get you out of here on this. You know, it's such a big opportunity now to have a Belmont winner,
00:52:36especially a son of Uncle Moe, who could potentially stand at stud.
00:52:40And especially, you know, if he goes on and wins more great one races the rest of the year.
00:52:44That's a big opportunity for expansion, I would think, for Donegal Racing.
00:52:48How big do you think it makes sense for you guys to get considering your business model and considering that you have all the partners in on each horse?
00:52:55Yeah, I don't anticipate changing much.
00:53:00I mean, I can make a lot more money if we syndicated one horse at a time.
00:53:08But we have when you when you see those 200 people of ours in the winner's circle at Belmont Park and see the fun they're having and they're hugging each other and laughing and carrying on.
00:53:20You can't do that if you syndicate one horse at a time, because then maybe you have five people come to the races.
00:53:27I can tell you that the track owners, the track managers like us just the way we are.
00:53:33And I don't think we'll change.
00:53:35Well, it's great. And you're bringing a lot of people into the game and you guys are great supporters of the game.
00:53:39So you really, honestly, really deserve this victory. And congratulations to you and all the partners, Jerry.
00:53:44Thanks. I'll say one one last thing.
00:53:47We announced after the race that we were going to give Ira Ortiz, who we think the world of, a stallion share and that we're going to do that from now on.
00:53:57Any jockey that wins a great one for us is going to get a stallion share of that stallion.
00:54:02And we hope that this will catch on.
00:54:04We've done this with and for trainers for a long time.
00:54:07I think it's time we do it with and for jockeys as well.
00:54:11And you can expect to hear some more about that around the country.
00:54:14That's awesome. I saw Bill taking some notes. Bill might want to do a story on that.
00:54:17But yeah, that's a great idea. Congratulations again, Jerry.
00:54:21Thanks so much for the time. Congratulations, Jerry.
00:54:24Appreciate it.
00:54:26The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting, tax, consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:54:33As this week's Green Group guest of the week, Jerry Crawford, will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
00:54:38Learn more at GreenCo.com. We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
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00:55:07For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
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00:55:27The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:55:52This week's XBTV Workout of the Week features Defunded, who ran second in last month's Hollywood Gold Cup to There Goes Harvard.
00:55:59This was the first work since that start for the four-year-old gelding, so the California Handicap Division is starting to come around.
00:56:05I guarantee you, all those horses are praying and hoping that Flightline goes across country to run in the Whitney,
00:56:12because if he was in the Pacific Classic, you thought you saw some short fields on Saturday.
00:56:17They're going to have trouble getting more than three or four horses to run against Flightline in the Pacific Classic if that's where he goes.
00:56:23But then I also would pay attention to XBTV for those Flightline workouts, assuming he's going to come back on the tab in like two, three, maybe four weeks.
00:56:31So definitely keep an eye on that.
00:56:32And for any of the workouts you want to see for the summer races, obviously things are going to pick up with Saratoga just around the corner,
00:56:40so much action coming up at the Oklahoma track.
00:56:43Definitely check it out on XBTV.com.
00:56:46OK, so we are now, what are we, two and a half weeks?
00:56:50How many days exactly? 18 or 17 days from the implementation of the Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Act,
00:56:57at least the non-drug enforcement protocols and policies.
00:57:01And there's a lot, you know, there's a lot of moving parts, a lot kind of still up in the air and some ambiguity.
00:57:07And whether or not states are going to go along with it and whether or not everyone's going to get registered in time.
00:57:12So it's kind of a little bit of a mess.
00:57:14We're going to try to get Lisa Lazarus, who's the CEO of the authority,
00:57:17we're going to try to get her on the show before the act goes into effect to maybe answer some of those questions.
00:57:23Like I said, TDN has been doing a good series about answering questions on HISA and what it's going to mean for regular horsemen.
00:57:32But there was some big news that broke yesterday about Texas and the Texas Racing Commission,
00:57:37who do not want to go along with HISA, who do not even want to work hand in hand with them,
00:57:41want really nothing to do with them.
00:57:43And as a result, they are going to, or at least proposing to, I don't know if they've actually decided on this yet,
00:57:49Bill can fill me in, but they're going to not export their simulcast signal out of state.
00:57:55And they're also not going to import out of state simulcasting signals because, you know,
00:57:59then that would run up in terms of the interstate aspects of HISA.
00:58:05Like they don't want to be involved in that interstate commerce stuff,
00:58:08because then they think they're going to be, I guess, roped into being part of HISA.
00:58:13That sounds like a really stupid idea to me, frankly.
00:58:16Like Texas, as it is, as Bill reminded me just now, has no OTBs or ADWs,
00:58:22so they rely pretty much on that track simulcasting revenue.
00:58:26And it seems like something to cut off your nose to spite your face,
00:58:29that it's going to cost Texas Racing a lot more than it's going to cost HISA.
00:58:33And especially in a state where, you know, they had passed this bill recently that really bumped up the purses
00:58:39and made the wagering product a lot more enticing in Texas.
00:58:43It just seems like the wrong decision to me.
00:58:46And the only justification I could see in the story is that a lot of people don't like the provision that HISA had
00:58:53where they could come search your offices or your homes if you're a horseman, which I get.
00:58:57I understand why you would be a little concerned about that.
00:59:00But I think HISA has amended that provision, you know, because there were some complaints about it.
00:59:04John can confirm that. But, yeah, what do you guys think about this?
00:59:08Well, I want to back up a little bit.
00:59:11If I had known that HISA – I was a big proponent of HISA. I was on board.
00:59:16But if I had known that they were not going to partner with USADA,
00:59:20I would not have been in favor of it because, to me, that was the meat on the bones and what this was really all about.
00:59:27And the reason why I said that is because it figured to be just a nightmare of implementing this.
00:59:35Because, I mean, there's just – talk about moving part, Joe.
00:59:38I mean, it's – you're taking a system that has been around for a million years and just flipping a light switch and say,
00:59:44now we're doing it this way and expecting everything to run smoothly and everybody to get on board and to have no snafus, et cetera.
00:59:52And it's just – it's too much to ask.
00:59:55I mean, I don't think – I think the people that are running HISA, like Lisa Lazarus, are probably very capable and probably doing a good job.
01:00:01But it's almost an impossibility to think this thing could come in without a tremendous amount of problems, a tremendous amount of red tape and hiccups.
01:00:10But back to the Texas thing, it strikes me as that this is like – it's my ball. I'm going to take it and go home.
01:00:18I'm sure that a lot of the racing commissions are upset that a lot of their authority and power is being taken away.
01:00:25I think there's some mentality here that you see a lot from people that tend to be in more conservative red states.
01:00:30We don't want the federal government telling us what to do.
01:00:34Whether those are valid arguments or not, the solution is not to shut down Texas Racing, which is what – they could go ahead without this money, I guess, but the purses would probably be, I'm just guessing, cut by 50% if not more.
01:00:49So their solution is to cripple Texas Racing.
01:00:52That just seems kind of petulant to me.
01:00:55But hopefully, people will get on the same page and there will be some sort of compromise to this.
01:01:03But maybe not because HISA can't just treat Texas different than every other state.
01:01:09And if these people have really drawn a line in the sand, this is what we're going to see.
01:01:14Let's just hope, though, that they are an outlier and there's only one Texas out there.
01:01:19I hope they're not providing a blueprint for other states that are intent on doing the same thing.
01:01:24And if you remember, these lawsuits against HISA, a lot of them were waged not just by the horsemen but by various states.
01:01:33Some of which don't have horse racing, which made absolutely no sense.
01:01:36But some of the states that did have it.
01:01:38So let's just hope that – first of all, bad job, Texas Racing Commission.
01:01:43This is just not serving any purpose.
01:01:45You're going to hurt the horsemen in Texas.
01:01:47You're going to hurt Texas Racing.
01:01:48So let's hope that they come to a different conclusion.
01:01:51But, again, HISA, geez.
01:01:55It is an accident waiting to happen.
01:01:58And this is one example of that.
01:02:02The other thing to say is I think that the July 1 deadline was always brushed.
01:02:06And I think they should have given us at least another year, July 1 of 2023, before they went into this.
01:02:14Trying to put this together in such a short timeframe didn't look like it was going to work.
01:02:18And so far we're seeing it that way.
01:02:20The timeline, I think, is the biggest issue with all this because up until February, it looks like USADA was going to be driving the bus on this and being the enforcer and the regulator of all the rules.
01:02:32And we were all definitely on board with that.
01:02:35But once they got out, Bill, as you mentioned, it's a whole different scenario.
01:02:41Yet we got coupled with the situation and then they kept the July 1 deadline.
01:02:46That was really, really a burden to try to accomplish.
01:02:50And I know the racetracks have been very proactive with trying to do webinars and Zoom calls and bringing mobile computers out to the barn area to try to help trainers navigate through the situation and to get registered.
01:03:07And that's all good.
01:03:08I think New York actually leads the country right now in number of horsemen that are registered, which is wonderful.
01:03:14But it boggles my mind still that we're going to try to have this July 1 deadline implemented.
01:03:21I'm sure you guys are getting this, but I'm getting calls from trainers, owners, asking me questions about ISA and what should we do?
01:03:31Should we get registered?
01:03:32Does this mean they can come in and do a search and seizure at their whim?
01:03:37No.
01:03:38Alan Forman came on our show a couple of weeks ago and actually said that that provision has been adjusted because even the Maryland horsemen and the Florida horsemen and a couple of the other ones that are still holding out were very concerned about the search and seizure provision within ISA.
01:03:54And that has been adjusted.
01:03:56So everyone can calm down about that.
01:03:58They're not going to come in and knock on your knock on your door and try to find the marijuana you have stashed in your cookie jar.
01:04:05Don't worry.
01:04:06It's not going to happen.
01:04:07Besides, they don't even have the manpower to do anything.
01:04:11ISA doesn't have the manpower to even be able to keep up with all these registrations, let alone send people out to the Joe Smith home in Bubble, Texas, and try to see what illegal things they have going on there.
01:04:26So that's part of it.
01:04:28But Texas, their stance really is confusing.
01:04:33It's almost like saying, I never want to get sick, so I'm going to shoot myself in the head.
01:04:37That's basically what they're saying.
01:04:40They're like, we don't want, you know, we're going to die on this hill.
01:04:43Well, yeah, and racing and breathing is going to die with you because it's just not a good situation for it.
01:04:49And I know Amy Cook has been proactive on Twitter, you know, kind of knocking down and sending out tweets saying that none of us know what we're talking about.
01:04:58And they have the ultimate solution.
01:05:00And they're going to go down with this fight.
01:05:03They are definitely going down with this fight.
01:05:05I just don't see it as working for them.
01:05:08And you know what, guys, we talk about this off and on, but there are too many racetracks in the country.
01:05:13Not that I want to see any of them go under, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for the horse population that is in Texas right now to ship out to California or ship out to New York or ship out to Arkansas and run in those races for bigger purses and maybe boost some of these four horse, five horse fields that we have in all these state races.
01:05:34So it just doesn't make any sense to me.
01:05:37I'm sure there's greater minds than mine that are out there from a legal standpoint saying why they're going to do it.
01:05:42But I really feel it feels like it has less to do with racing and more to do with you can't tell me what to do.
01:05:49Yes. Yeah, no, totally.
01:05:51And that's I mean, that's that's a red state thing.
01:05:54Honestly, like it's just this vague idea that the government is going to come in and kick down your door and do something nefarious.
01:06:02And it just it never turns out to be that way.
01:06:04It's just a paranoid fantasy.
01:06:07That's a lot of a lot of the reasons that people give for keeping the keeping all their guns.
01:06:12Like, well, what if the government tyranny? It's like, OK, the government has Harrier jets.
01:06:16You're going to fight them off with with your little pistol and your sawed off shotgun.
01:06:20Like, it's just a completely ridiculous notion from 300 years ago.
01:06:24But that side, you know, it just makes no sense for Texas racing.
01:06:27You know, this is this is a lifeblood.
01:06:29So I will casting revenue is a lifeblood for states, you know, especially a state that, you know,
01:06:35Bill says has no off track wagering and is so reliant on those other signals at the racetracks.
01:06:42And like I said, Texas has had positive momentum off of that bill that that got a lot of the purses bumped.
01:06:47And now you're just going to completely stop that in its tracks and really reverse a lot of progress.
01:06:51I think that Texas racing has made from a pretty dark place in which it was like five, 10 years ago.
01:06:57And, you know, I get all the concerns.
01:07:00Like, I think this is a mess right now, frankly, guys, is is like you said, having to implement this stuff by July 1st.
01:07:06But also, like I you know, I think the Heisman people have done a good job answering questions,
01:07:10but I don't think that they've answered the fundamental question, which is what is this for right now?
01:07:16Because it was it was obvious it was self-evident what it was for when you saw it was on board.
01:07:20Like we have a drug problem in racing. We're going to bring in some actual cops to police this thing.
01:07:26And we're going to get everybody under a uniform standard in racing on drug policy.
01:07:30We don't have that now. What we have is just this kind of loose system that's going to come in.
01:07:36And all people know it's like you've got to register for it.
01:07:38And they're like freaking out about that provision that, you know, as John said, has has been amended, but doesn't seem to get through to people.
01:07:46What are we doing? Like, what are they going to come in and do specifically?
01:07:49Like, I guess there will be uniform whip rules and safety standards.
01:07:53And I think overall, it's a good thing to get all of that unified.
01:07:56And anything that gets this industry on a level playing field across states is a good thing.
01:08:01But I don't think that they've done necessarily a great job communicating why this is necessary right now.
01:08:06They've done a lot of education about here's how you get registered, all this stuff.
01:08:10Not enough explanation of why we need this.
01:08:13I would I would feel a lot better about all the questions and the ambiguity if we had that drug enforcement partner locked in,
01:08:20because right now it seems like a lot of disruption and confusion for really not that much reward.
01:08:27You know, a very kind of nebulous, murky, unclear reward, at least in the short term, until we actually get the drug enforcement on board.
01:08:38And guys, I don't know. None of us, I think, have thought of this.
01:08:41But what happens when the United States racing is all under these unified rules and then the Europeans come in for the Breeders' Cup
01:08:51and they're allowed to use other training procedures and other medications while they're still in Europe and they come here and they still have an advantage?
01:09:03It's almost not even playing field then. And that's the biggest stage that we have.
01:09:08So, you know, maybe it's not going to come to fruition.
01:09:12But I would be interested to see how the European horses and the Canadian horses and the South American horses do in some of these bigger races when they're shipped in directly from those venues and countries.
01:09:26So if you want to read more about this, this kind of standoff that's happening between Texas and Haiza,
01:09:31and I'm pretty sure a lot of other states who are reticent about joining Haiza are watching this to see what happens.
01:09:38Read Dan Ross's story in today's TDN. No one's covered this quite as well as Dan Ross.
01:09:43So definitely recommend reading that just to get yourself apprised of the situation,
01:09:48because this is something that's going to be very contentious, I think, in the next couple of weeks and maybe even the next couple of months.
01:09:54TDN Writers Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:09:57Congratulations to West Point Thoroughbreds and all the partners on Flightline's win in the Met Mile.
01:10:03That day and that race had to be had to be, you know, affirmation of why you guys are in racing,
01:10:09why you spend the money, why you go through all the trouble, especially Terry Finley.
01:10:13So congratulations to Terry and all the West Point partners.
01:10:15We're looking forward to seeing all those expensive babies hit the track this summer.
01:10:19Obviously a lot to be excited about. Right back after this message from West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:10:53Visit WestPointTV.com.
01:10:56Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:10:59We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:11:02We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:11:04We're always with your horse every step of the way.
01:11:08When it comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse.
01:11:12Just driving up and down the road every day, there's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal,
01:11:18the people that come to invest in the game.
01:11:20I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can,
01:11:23because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
01:11:27The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:11:30If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business can benefit your program,
01:11:34give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:11:36They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own Legacy grad, sharp as a tack.
01:11:41Which is a great, great name for a son of sharp as Tecca.
01:11:45Obviously, I think that's another sire that could lend himself to some good names.
01:11:49Broke his maiden on debut this weekend at Santa Anita for Doug O'Neill on R3 Racing.
01:11:54Colt sold for $72,000 as a yearling.
01:11:56And his half-sist by Jimmy Creed will sell with Legacy at this year's Keen On September sale.
01:12:01So we're about a month away, a little less than a month away from that Fasig July sale.
01:12:05We've done and moved on from the two-year-old sales, yearling sales, just a couple weeks away.
01:12:12So hit up Tommy and Wendy for all your needs.
01:12:14Legacy has got you covered.
01:12:16All right, this weekend's Remy cartoon.
01:12:18Although, how could you possibly top last week's Remy cartoon?
01:12:23It had some celebrities in it, and I think there's a print on the way for us.
01:12:28I'm going to put that on my wall.
01:12:30So once again, shout out to Remy for putting us in his cartoon last week.
01:12:33That was a lot of fun.
01:12:34This week's cartoon, the trainers did say he's a stayer.
01:12:37That's a horse presumably at the Belmont who does not want to go.
01:12:42Jackie's pulling on him on the track.
01:12:44And yeah, a lot of those horses probably would have been better off just sitting on the ground after they opened the gate.
01:12:50They didn't want to stay.
01:12:51So another good one from Remy.
01:12:53Okay, so that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
01:12:57Make plans to attend the Keeneland September yearling sale beginning Monday, September 12th.
01:13:02You can learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
01:13:05I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green, our Green Group Guest of the Week, Jerry Crawford,
01:13:09our producer Patty Wolf, our associate producer Katie Petruniak, and our editors Anthony LaRocca, Leah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:13:16Thank you so much for watching.
01:13:18See you next week.

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