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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning.
00:00:25It is 1007, Wednesday, May 11th.
00:00:28This is the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
00:00:30My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:31I'm the associate editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:34I had my most successful derby in years, guys, because I didn't bet it.
00:00:38I found the secret.
00:00:39And also, John is very disrespectfully wearing a Pittsburgh Penguins shirt today as they're
00:00:44about to eliminate my Rangers in five games tonight.
00:00:47Joe, hi.
00:00:48Good morning.
00:00:49I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:51I want to know more.
00:00:52What are you, un-American, a communist or something?
00:00:55Did you do a podcast about gambling and handicapping?
00:00:58How the heck didn't you bet the derby?
00:01:00What's going on here?
00:01:01Well, once Three Technique won that race in the middle of the card, I said, this is what
00:01:04happened for me today.
00:01:05So, don't worry.
00:01:06I bet plenty this weekend, just not the derby.
00:01:08Yeah.
00:01:09There you go.
00:01:10There you go.
00:01:11Jonathan Green, general manager of DJ Stable.
00:01:13And who would have thought, guys, that an 80-to-1 win in the Kentucky Derby would be
00:01:17like the least exciting thing that happened to the Kentucky Derby the past five years?
00:01:22Interesting opinion there, John.
00:01:23I want to hear more later on.
00:01:25Okay.
00:01:26Well, we're going to have an hour and a half to discuss.
00:01:27All right.
00:01:28So, this show is for her.
00:01:29Did Bill introduce himself?
00:01:30Yes, I did.
00:01:31I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:01:32And you're really calling me a communist.
00:01:33I forgot about that.
00:01:34The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland, home of the World's Yearling
00:01:41Sale.
00:01:42Make plans to attend the Keeneland's September Yearling Sale beginning Monday, September
00:01:4512th.
00:01:46Learn more at theworldseerlingsale.com.
00:01:47So, what a derby.
00:01:50We were basically wrong about everything, so we'll start with that.
00:01:53We talked about the derby for over an hour, did not mention Rich Strike.
00:01:56In our defense, he was on the Also Eligible list, and in our further defense, he had absolutely
00:02:00no chance to win that race on paper, but it's horse racing.
00:02:04Once they open the gates, they all got four legs, and they all can jump up and surprise
00:02:08you or regress and disappoint you.
00:02:11Another thing we were wrong about was the pace.
00:02:13We said all along, you know, not all along, but once the speed horses started defecting
00:02:18from the race, we said it would be a more moderate pace.
00:02:20It was the fastest derby pace in recent memory.
00:02:23I think probably the fastest in the points era, but I want to hear what Bill and John's
00:02:26takeaways were.
00:02:28Well, where do you start?
00:02:29And Joe, at 80-1, the horse won the derby, and he was an underlay at 80-1.
00:02:34I totally agree.
00:02:35You know, it's just, it happens every eight, nine, ten years.
00:02:40I mean, it's mind that bird all over again.
00:02:42Now, there are, in hindsight, and obviously, I'm going to be honest with you, if you would
00:02:48have asked me two weeks ago, who is Rich Strike, I wouldn't have any idea.
00:02:52I didn't even know who he was, honestly, because who's paying attention to the horse that finished
00:02:56his third in the Jeff Ruby at Turpey Park?
00:03:00But I think now, in hindsight, and this is obviously all in hindsight only, if we had
00:03:05talked about him during the moves, you didn't even talk about it, I would have said he had
00:03:07no chance, save your money, whatever.
00:03:10But three things came together all at once that got this horse to the winner's circle.
00:03:15Number one was, and I'm sure we'll talk a lot about it, the jockey that nobody ever
00:03:18heard of, put up one of the greatest rides in Kentucky Derby history.
00:03:22You know, the least likely guy in the race for that to happen.
00:03:25He's the guy who's supposed to screw everything up, because he rides it in the Honing Valley
00:03:29in Valterra Park, that's number one.
00:03:32Number two, obviously the horse improved, and it does happen with three-year-olds at
00:03:36this time of year.
00:03:37Just because they run an 84 buyer on the first of April doesn't mean they can't run a 98
00:03:43on the May 7th, because these horses are young, they're improving at all times.
00:03:47And then again, of course, the pace.
00:03:49I mean, usually when you get crazy horses like this to win, it's the result of a pace
00:03:55meltdown.
00:03:56And, you know, he was 17th down the backstretch, he was right where you wanted to be.
00:04:01You didn't even want to be, like, epicenter was eighth in the early going.
00:04:04I think most people thought he probably should have been closer.
00:04:07Even eighth was too close to the pace, because, you know, the pace was that fast.
00:04:12So the race fell apart, he closed like an absolute, like he was possessed or something
00:04:17in the stretch, and got the job done.
00:04:19I do detect, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, what's good for racing and whatnot.
00:04:24I do detect that the public at large, the non-racing public, has kind of gravitated
00:04:28towards this story of the, you know, the jockey in the winner's circle was adorable with
00:04:33his little girl and his wife and everything like that, and, you know, the horse that wasn't
00:04:36even supposed to win in the derby and wins at 80 to one.
00:04:39So, you know, by and large, it was a feel-good story.
00:04:41And I'll go on record now saying the horse is going to get trounced in the Preakness,
00:04:44and then, you know, we can come back in two weeks and say, yeah, Bill, look how foolish
00:04:48you are.
00:04:49No, a horse is going to win the Triple Crown.
00:04:53And just to keep in line with the other rich strike facts, because, again, none of us knew
00:04:58who the horse was going into the derby, you're talking about a horse that not only won the
00:05:02Kentucky Derby, but he was an A other than going into the Kentucky Derby.
00:05:07And not only was an A other than, he was also starter allowance eligible for, you know,
00:05:11the majority of the racetracks.
00:05:12The only race he ever won in his life was for Maiden 30,000.
00:05:15And I will give the owners and the trainer a tremendous amount of credit because, you
00:05:21know, we claim horses and, you know, if you look at the horse's PPs going into the September
00:05:2717th race, he ran once at Ellis Park and the only thing he beat in that race was the ambulance.
00:05:34He lost, he finished 10th and lost by 15 lengths.
00:05:37And then they dropped him in for Maiden 30, you know, at Churchill, which, again, say
00:05:43whatever you want about, oh, Calumet and Joe Sharp really screwed up.
00:05:46That was the right decision at the time.
00:05:48The horse ran at 25 buyer, didn't beat anybody in the race, and the right thing to do was
00:05:52to run for Maiden 30.
00:05:53He was 11 to 1 in that race.
00:05:54It wasn't like he was 8 to 5 in that race.
00:05:56And contrary to popular belief, because I know that there's a bunch of people out there
00:06:00saying, oh, I want to go claim the horse or, oh, you know, we were going to claim it.
00:06:04That's all BS.
00:06:05There was only one person in for the horse, and thank you for Brian DiDonato for pointing
00:06:08this out.
00:06:09There was only one group that actually went in to claim the horse, and that was the current
00:06:14owners right now.
00:06:15So that was absolutely the right decision.
00:06:17It was a homebred, a modestly homebred for that matter.
00:06:20You know, nobody is clamoring over the fact that Kenice is going to be the next great
00:06:24sire of sires, and he's an okay sire, but it wasn't like there was a colonel in himself
00:06:30that was being dropped in or, you know, or a half a million dollar yearling that was
00:06:35being dropped in for Maiden 30.
00:06:37It was really, you know, quite a tremendous claim unto itself, even before the horse ran
00:06:42the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:43That being said, Rich Strike, the week before the Derby, was 24th in points, 24th in points.
00:06:49It wasn't even going to have a sniff of running, and if it wasn't for the fact that the horse
00:06:53was actually training at Churchill Downs that week, he probably still wouldn't be running
00:06:57in the race.
00:06:59You know, he became the second horse in Kentucky Derby history to win out of the 20 post, Big
00:07:04Brown being the other one.
00:07:05And Big Brown was the favorite, you know, in the other one.
00:07:08The horse going into the race, Rich Strike, lost by epicenter in the gunrunner's stake
00:07:12by 14 lengths.
00:07:14So he turned that table.
00:07:16And the other thing that I thought was really interesting is trainer Eric Reed had one graded
00:07:21stake win going into the Kentucky Derby in over 9,000 starts.
00:07:27So, you know, again, there's a lot of conspiracy theories out there that, well, maybe the horse,
00:07:31you know, had a little extra something, something.
00:07:34You know what?
00:07:35If he did, then the guy is playing the ultimate long game, the ultimate long con in his career
00:07:40because he had 9,000 starts to figure out how to do it the right way and never got it
00:07:45right.
00:07:46And now in the Kentucky Derby.
00:07:47So I'm not too sure, you know, yeah, the horse ran and rebroke down the stretch, you know,
00:07:52and that was a surprise.
00:07:53But, you know, when you look at the numbers and Bill, you alluded to this before you actually
00:07:57mentioned it.
00:07:58It was the fastest quarter in Kentucky Derby history was the second fastest half mile Kentucky
00:08:02Derby history.
00:08:03But it was the 52nd fastest finish time, which basically meant that it wasn't so much that
00:08:09Rich Strike was pouring it on down the lane and accelerating.
00:08:12He was just decelerating slower than everyone else was.
00:08:15And that was because of the early fractions and also because a couple of horses that should
00:08:20have been coming down the lane, like Modonical, got in all kinds of traffic problems.
00:08:24And that's what happens in a 20 horse race.
00:08:26Sometimes, you know, you get you get into traffic issues and you can't get through.
00:08:31So it was just a combination of all these different factors that kind of played into
00:08:37it the right way.
00:08:38You know, they were Rich Strike was the Villanova versus Georgetown, the David versus the Goliath,
00:08:43however you want to say it.
00:08:44But if they ran that race 99 more times, I don't think that he would have hit the wire
00:08:49first in any of those.
00:08:51Well, like you guys are saying, it was it was a great ride because, you know, the horse
00:08:55got steadied slightly once or twice, but he didn't he never got his momentum completely
00:09:00stopped, which is a very hard thing to do when you're coming from 17th.
00:09:03The other smart thing he did was coming right out of the gate left turn.
00:09:08He just said, I want to go to the inside.
00:09:09I want to be close to the rail.
00:09:11I want to save as much ground and just pray and cross my fingers that the pace is going
00:09:15to come back to me.
00:09:16And it did.
00:09:17I think we were all surprised by how fast the pace was.
00:09:20And, you know, I think that fried horses like Messier and Teba a little bit.
00:09:26But it was it was a remarkable ride, a remarkable run by Rich Strike because he could have gotten
00:09:30discouraged and intimidated a lot of times weaving through that pack.
00:09:35And he never did.
00:09:36And he just kept on coming.
00:09:37And it's just one of those things where racing, racing will humble you.
00:09:42Handicapping racing will humble you.
00:09:44This is the most overhandicapped race in the world, the Kentucky Derby.
00:09:49People spend hours and hours and hours trying to talk about the Derby for four months before
00:09:54it actually happened.
00:09:55We've been handicapping the Derby since January, and none of us mentioned this horse one time.
00:10:00And that goes to show you how hard it is, how tough of a challenge it is to handicap
00:10:04horse races, to handicap four legged animals, thinking that they're going to do what you
00:10:09expect them to do coming out of the gate.
00:10:12Honestly, if you bet the race and you lost a lot of money, I'm sorry, but this was this
00:10:17was kind of a reminder, I think, for people that you can put all the effort, all of the
00:10:22handicapping into it.
00:10:23And sometimes there will just be results that don't make any sense.
00:10:26And honestly, that's what keeps people coming back.
00:10:29And, you know, that goes for the ownership side of it, too, and the training side of
00:10:33it. You know, everybody was probably looking at them like, what are you doing with this
00:10:37horse? Like John said, he's he's N1X eligible.
00:10:40He's starter allowance eligible.
00:10:42And here they are in the Kentucky Derby hoping for a scratch, but they took a shot.
00:10:46And I think of last year's arc with Torquator Tasso, a horse that did not figure on paper.
00:10:51But the Connections believed in the horse and they took a shot and he won the most
00:10:55prestigious race in Europe at over 50 to one.
00:10:58So I will never criticize anybody for running a big price long shot in a big race
00:11:04because why not? You never know what's going to happen.
00:11:06And, you know, it was actually a really good story.
00:11:08Now, besides the fact that someone dug up some old tweets of Eric Reed that were a
00:11:14little problematic, you guys are familiar with the milkshake duck viral meme?
00:11:18It was like it was a tweet.
00:11:20I'll read it to you. It's like it's positing that this imaginary universe, the whole
00:11:26Internet loves milkshake duck, a lovely duck that drinks milkshakes.
00:11:29Five seconds later, we regret to inform you that the duck is racist.
00:11:34It's one of these things where someone has like overnight success and everybody loves
00:11:37them. And then someone digs up their old tweets, their old Facebook posts, and they
00:11:41immediately have to disavow them.
00:11:42So that was kind of how it was with Eric Reed.
00:11:44But, you know, besides that, it's it's a good David versus Goliath story, like you guys
00:11:49were saying. And, you know, I was I did a couple of TV spots over the weekend and it
00:11:53was refreshing. It was refreshing to hear people ask and talk about how this injected
00:11:59life into the sport and brought so much new attention to it because people love it.
00:12:02People love that rags to riches story.
00:12:05You know, they don't want to hear it.
00:12:07They don't want to hear about Bob Baffert, you know, drug positives in the Derby.
00:12:11I don't want to talk about it any more than you guys want to hear about it.
00:12:14And that's that's to me is what was exciting about this was that, you know, we know we
00:12:19all know this stuff about racing, about how unpredictable it is and how anything can
00:12:22happen on any day.
00:12:24But it's great for the general public to see that and maybe wash away some of the bad
00:12:29taste of all the Baffert stuff from the past year.
00:12:33Yeah, Joe, a couple of points and getting back to the betting and, you know, you did
00:12:37the right thing by not betting the Derby.
00:12:38Do you know, have you heard from anyone, I ask both of you, that made money betting the
00:12:44Derby? I haven't.
00:12:45Oh, for a million.
00:12:47And the reason is, I mean, how could you unless you somehow I mean, unless you bet as
00:12:52epicenter in a place or something like that, we'll never we'll never find out.
00:12:57But I would love to talk to somebody who hit the for one dollar three hundred thousand
00:13:04dollars super effective.
00:13:05And I get there's got to be someone out there that lives at twenty one Forest Lane and
00:13:11just keep the twenty one on top or something like that.
00:13:13And his name is Richard.
00:13:15His name is Richard.
00:13:16Or exactly. Or, you know, was born on the twenty first.
00:13:20I mean, honestly, seriously, you know, three hundred thousand dollars.
00:13:24That's life changing.
00:13:25But how would you possibly come up with that?
00:13:28And that's with the favorite running second in the race.
00:13:32But unless you're playing numbers or, you know, some crazy theory about maybe all epicenter
00:13:38something or other, it's impossible on our the radio show on Sirius XM.
00:13:44We always give a free fifty dollar bet to our correspondents as a sign of appreciation.
00:13:52The the ROI, the return was zero.
00:13:55Zero.
00:13:56That's that's upwards of twenty one people over twenty one.
00:14:01But look, it was impossible.
00:14:04You in the last.
00:14:06Yeah, I mean, Johnny, you're right.
00:14:07I mean, I was happy.
00:14:10Jack was twenty three to one, which made absolutely no sense because he was probably neck
00:14:14and neck with Rick Strikers, the worst horse in the race.
00:14:16Someone said to me beforehand, this horse isn't going to be that high in the odds.
00:14:20You think there are eighty six zillion people out there named Jack.
00:14:24They're going to bet on the horse.
00:14:25Yeah, John, maybe, you know, your name is Rich Smith and you live at twenty one windy
00:14:30hill lane. I got the three hundred thousand dollar super effective, baby.
00:14:33Sometimes that's all that matters.
00:14:35Sometimes that that's that's exactly why it turns, you know, all this betting on its
00:14:39ear. And guys, the reason why I was thinking that like rich strike at eighty to one was
00:14:43the was the least sexy story in the past five years.
00:14:47You know, last year we had Mandolin, you know, being bumped up because of because of a
00:14:54testing authentic was in the covid year, which the derby wasn't until October.
00:14:59Country House technically won the two thousand nineteen because there was a DQ, you
00:15:04know, in that race and then justified winning the Triple Crown and retiring undefeated.
00:15:08I mean that, you know, those stories, I think arguably are are more important or were
00:15:14more talked about than rich strike at eighty to one in the Kentucky Derby.
00:15:19And I think Bill, it goes back to what you're saying.
00:15:20It's because as much as it was refreshing that a long shot won the Kentucky Derby, the
00:15:26horse is going to be a long shot again in the Preakness and deservedly so until proven
00:15:29otherwise. You know, I'm not betting on this horse in the in the Preakness, which which
00:15:33may mean he's going to win.
00:15:34But but I wouldn't I wouldn't put you know, I wouldn't put Monopoly money on the horse
00:15:38and in the Preakness either.
00:15:39The only other time you stole my line.
00:15:42Oh, that's right, Joe. Yeah, that's right.
00:15:43That's where I heard it from. I knew I knew it was somebody I respected that said it.
00:15:48But but, you know, the other thing about the thing about rich strike, you know, two
00:15:54things. One is, Bill, you're forever going to be talking about the fact that the the
00:15:59Jeff Ruby stakes stake is still going to be a grade three again next year or a grade two
00:16:04because now he has a grade one graduate from from the race.
00:16:07So we are going to see the the importance of the Jeff Ruby stakes stake again in twenty
00:16:13twenty three. But what was your guys opinion on the whole?
00:16:17Like the horse rich strike himself was being such a jerk in the pre-race and the paddock
00:16:21and then in the post-race, you know, biting the pony and savaging the the rider and
00:16:26everything like that. I think my my personal opinion is, A, the horse is kind of a jerk
00:16:31and B, the horse only won once before.
00:16:34And I will guarantee you that after that maiden 30 win, there wasn't an outrider pony
00:16:41trying to pull him up and bring him to the winner's circle.
00:16:43So between all these changes that the horse had to go through over the past week and even
00:16:47on that day and in that moment, he probably didn't know what the hell was going on.
00:16:51And when another horse, you know, after winning, he probably felt he was King Kong and
00:16:55another horse came over to him.
00:16:56He was probably being like, get the hell away from me.
00:16:58I'm the alpha and and this is what I do.
00:17:01Aside from the fact there were one hundred and sixty thousand streaming fans on top of
00:17:05it, which, again, I will guarantee you was not the case in all of the horse's seven races
00:17:10combined, the number of people that were there.
00:17:12So, you know, to me, it was it wasn't great that the horse was was savaging and biting
00:17:18and everything like that. But I don't think it was as big of a deal as like what some
00:17:22other people were making it out to be.
00:17:23Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I agree.
00:17:25I think I feel like people in racing were overreacting to that more than the general
00:17:28public actually cared about it.
00:17:30Like I nobody asked me any questions about the outrider trying to control him or
00:17:35whatever. But you tell me Donner Brothers didn't pull up on him when he won that
00:17:38thirty thousand maiden claimer looking for.
00:17:42No, but he's to the point about the preakness, he's probably going to be six, seven, eight
00:17:46to one in the preakness.
00:17:47I mind that bird I remember was like nine to two and that was that was with Rachel
00:17:51Alexandra in the race.
00:17:52I think I think which strike is going to be higher than that.
00:17:55You talk about mind that bird.
00:17:56He had better past performances than Rich Strike.
00:17:59I don't even think it was close, honestly.
00:18:02But I kind of just before we move on to the Oaks, because the Oaks was a big story as
00:18:06well, just wanted to get some some thoughts from you guys on the runner up, the third
00:18:10place horse, whoever, because coming down to the 16th pole, it looked like Chad Brown
00:18:15or Steve Ashmussen was ninety nine percent to get their first Derby win.
00:18:20And that would have been an interesting story in its own right with Epicenter and
00:18:23Xandin going back and forth.
00:18:24And we'll get to the contest and the results from that as well, because that was a
00:18:28nail biter, too. But I just wonder if you guys have any thoughts about the other
00:18:31horses in the race. Well, you know, they both ran Epicenter and Xandin both ran
00:18:35winning races and, you know, 16th of a mile out.
00:18:40OK, who's going to win it? Chad or Steve Ashmussen?
00:18:42Then all of a sudden, oh, who's this crazy horse in the red silks?
00:18:45Oh, my God. Look, look who it is.
00:18:47I mean, they ran they ran great, but they didn't have any excuses.
00:18:51I just think that, you know, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
00:18:55And they, like everyone else, were the victim of this improbable, crazy run by this
00:19:00horse that you couldn't see.
00:19:02Now, I mean, you know, as much as we're saying like, John, you're six, seven to one
00:19:04in the Preakness. I agree what I bet on the Preakness.
00:19:07No way do I expect them to win the Preakness.
00:19:09Absolutely not.
00:19:11And, you know, he did have a lot going for him, you know, the factors I said about the
00:19:14great ride and the pace meltdown.
00:19:17But nonetheless, really good race.
00:19:20I mean, his run in the final 16th of a mile was almost to me like a Rossi on the turn
00:19:26in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, where like he's just running in like almost like it
00:19:30seems like he's running twice as fast as everyone else in the field.
00:19:33So, you know, Epicenter and Xandin ran great.
00:19:37You know, there were obviously a lot of disappointments in the race, but most of them,
00:19:40you know, and anybody who was anywhere near that pace early, like, you know, Messier or
00:19:46something like that, forget about it.
00:19:47You know, they were the minute they put up that 20, what was it, 21 and three, you're
00:19:52looking at, OK, wow, you know, OK, who's going to come from behind and win this?
00:19:56And, you know, oh, my God, my horse, I bet on so-and-so, and he's sixth right now.
00:20:00That's not good enough. You need to be 16.
00:20:03I was going to say, you know, and as far as the Preakness goes, you know, there's going
00:20:06to be a bunch of new shooters coming into the Preakness that either passed on the derby
00:20:11or like a thorough road, you know, that had scratched at the derby and oh, didn't make
00:20:15it to the, you know, decided they weren't going to make it to the draw.
00:20:18There's going to be a lot of good, fresh horses in the Preakness, I think, that that
00:20:22should make that race really, really exciting.
00:20:24Rattle and Roll, I think, is coming in early voting, you know, Chad Brown's horse and
00:20:28then Secret Oath, who is going to be migrating, allegedly is going to be migrating away
00:20:33from running in, you know, in the Black Eyed Susan to run against the boys again.
00:20:37I think that's going to be a really, really exciting story.
00:20:40But again, I think that if you looked at who ran in the derby and who's going to, you
00:20:45know, make some noise in the Preakness, I still go back to Modonical.
00:20:49I still feel like that if he got a better trip and if a horse wasn't, you know, laying
00:20:54on him on the outside for most of down the stretch, he would have come up a little
00:20:58closer. Would he have won? No.
00:20:59Would he finish second? Probably not.
00:21:01But he would have been that much closer.
00:21:03And I have to say that, like, I have not given the source a lot of love and that
00:21:07simplification. But, you know, you look at the horse's past performances and really
00:21:12other than his first race of his life, which was on the Tapeda going five eights, the
00:21:17horse has danced every dance.
00:21:18I mean, he has he has been there, you know, in the discussion and close to the winner
00:21:23circle in literally every single race that he's run.
00:21:26And, you know, not this time out of a candy ride mare you think would be able to go that
00:21:31distance. And the horse has done everything that has been asked of it just has been a
00:21:36little bit unlucky.
00:21:37And again, in the derby at thirty five, the one was 15th and was trying to meander
00:21:42through horses, you know, on rush hour traffic and and finished fourth.
00:21:46I think those horses are going to be interesting because the way the previous is setting
00:21:50up, there could be a pace meltdown in that race also.
00:21:53Yeah. And I just want to just support all on this, you know, talking about the race
00:21:57that was strike one. Yes, he benefited from the fast pace and a good ride.
00:22:01But if you look at the tracking chart for the for the race, he his peak speed was
00:22:07forty four point two miles an hour, which is super, super fast.
00:22:11Like you don't see a lot of times like that, especially going a mile and a quarter.
00:22:14The next fastest one was summer is tomorrow.
00:22:17Forty two point three when he ran off and set that fast pace.
00:22:20I mean, you want to talk about the final quarter time.
00:22:23Rich strike twenty four point three.
00:22:25Next fastest one in the final quarter was Mo Donegal.
00:22:27Twenty four point eight two.
00:22:29So that's an entire half second slower in terms of the ground he covered.
00:22:33Only five horses in the race covered more ground than rich strike.
00:22:37And it wasn't by a lot. So he earned that.
00:22:39He earned that win. He did get a beneficial setup.
00:22:42He did avoid traffic for the most part.
00:22:44But this was not a fluke win in that everybody fell into his lap.
00:22:48I think that he there were plenty of other closers in the race who had who had
00:22:53those similar chances.
00:22:54And you want to say some of them had, you know, a little bit more encumbered trips.
00:22:57I don't care.
00:22:57He was the best horse in that race for the final half mile.
00:23:01And eighty to one or not, he earned the win.
00:23:04Yeah. And Joe, to that point, like I don't want to gloss over this.
00:23:07Sonny Leon probably rode the race of his life in that in that race.
00:23:12I mean, he made three or four decisions throughout the course of the race
00:23:16from the moment the gate opened until all the way around, you know, down the stretch
00:23:19where he was starting to go up the up the rail and realize that he wasn't going to make
00:23:23that hole and had to shift gears.
00:23:25You mentioned it before.
00:23:26But I mean, give the guy credit where credit is due.
00:23:29He rode the best race of his life in the most important race of his life.
00:23:33And I know people were saying, oh, well, isn't it great that, you know, that he got
00:23:37to ride the horse in the Kentucky Derby?
00:23:39They really didn't have a choice.
00:23:41The top 19 jockeys in the country were already spoken for.
00:23:44So it pretty much was, OK, let's let's leave Sonny Leon on the horse.
00:23:48And he knows how to how to ride him.
00:23:50But he did not ride the horse like it was an 80 to one.
00:23:52He did not ride the horse like it was the only mount of his day.
00:23:55I mean, that was the only race he rode at Churchill Downs that day.
00:23:59The night before, he was he was in Ohio riding the $10,000 claiming race.
00:24:03So, you know, you really have to give the guy a ton of credit because he did what
00:24:08needed to be done in the biggest race of his life.
00:24:11And he out rode, you know, arguably the best riders in the country.
00:24:15Absolutely. And shout out to Katie, our associate producer, who's going to go
00:24:18do a story on him at Belterra Park this week.
00:24:21So we're looking forward to that.
00:24:22And yeah, it just goes to show you, you know, it reminds me of the Baffert
00:24:26thing where everybody automatically sends their good two year olds
00:24:29and three year olds to Bob Baffert.
00:24:31There are plenty of trainers who can get you to the Derby
00:24:33and get you to the Derby winner's circle.
00:24:35There are plenty of jockeys who can get you there, too.
00:24:37You know, if you win a race, if you want to prep race with like a lesser known
00:24:40jockey, you don't necessarily have to immediately dump that guy
00:24:43and then go to a big name rider.
00:24:45You know, some guys, some guys and girls are just waiting
00:24:48for the right opportunity.
00:24:50And Sonny Leon certainly took advantage of his.
00:24:53The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:24:5540 Keeneland sales graduates were showcased in graded stakes
00:24:58at Churchill Downs over Derby weekend, including Derby second and third place
00:25:02finishers Zanden and Epicenter, as well as grade one Churchill Downs
00:25:05stakes winner Jackie's Warrior.
00:25:07Good to see him back in top form and grade two American turf
00:25:10stakes winner Stolen Base.
00:25:12Also a reminder that tickets are now on sale for this little pop up
00:25:15event they got going on in Keeneland in the fall.
00:25:17I don't know if you've heard of it, but the 2022 Breeders Cup World Championships,
00:25:21the 39th running of the meet will return to Lexington on November 4th and 5th.
00:25:26You can purchase tickets online at Breeders Cup dot com slash tickets.
00:25:30We'll be right back with this message from Keeneland.
00:25:44Good morning, ladies and gentlemen,
00:25:45and welcome to the Keeneland September Yearly Sale.
00:25:48A terrific maternal pedigree.
00:25:50Grade one winners and champions across the base.
00:25:52Echo Zulu parties. Life is good.
00:25:56Let's go superstars.
00:25:59Go to the back. Good luck.
00:26:04Spicetown.
00:26:07Munnings.
00:26:11Echo Town.
00:26:12Down, down, down, down.
00:26:14It's Echo Town for Joe Palomo.
00:26:16And Echo Town raced away.
00:26:19And Echo Town is drawing away in the stretch.
00:26:22Echo Town wins the Allen Turkey Stakes.
00:26:24A sire line so prolific, it repeats itself.
00:26:29Echo Town.
00:26:34Congratulations to everybody at Coomer on the successful return of Jack
00:26:37Christopher in the grade two Pat Day mile.
00:26:40I'm sure we're going to talk about him as we talk about some of the stellar
00:26:43undercard action from the weekend, the son of Munnings and future
00:26:46Coomer Stallion stayed undefeated in his third career start.
00:26:49Certainly looks to have an exciting sophomore campaign ahead of him.
00:26:52Ahead of him, Bill talked to Chad Brown about his immediate future the other day.
00:26:56So we'll ask him in a little bit.
00:26:58And of course, we got to shout out my boy Cupid on a huge performance
00:27:01by his daughter, Desert Dawn, who ran third in the Kentucky Oaks.
00:27:04Ellie needed her to get second, but she ran great.
00:27:07And she looks like an up and coming three year old filly for sure.
00:27:10And then on Saturday, Cupid had a five and a half length winner at Woodbine
00:27:13when Duke of Love got his second career win for trainer Josie Carroll.
00:27:17So shout out to Cupid.
00:27:18Always, always on the rise.
00:27:21So before we wrap the Derby officially, we have to we have to do a little
00:27:25postmortem on our contest.
00:27:27And just as exciting as the Kentucky Derby was, the finish of our contest
00:27:31with Bill and Al neck and neck down the stretch.
00:27:34Al had Zanden and Simplification who ran third and fourth.
00:27:38But Bill's epicenter edged out Zanden for second.
00:27:41So the final tally, Bill Finley, 400, Alan Carasso, 395.
00:27:47Then me in third with 234.
00:27:49Then John with 215 and Sue with 43 with the leftover horses.
00:27:53So shout out to Bill, the champion.
00:27:57Here's my question.
00:27:59At the end of the Derby last year, I also was on top.
00:28:02But do I get the win or does do was Medina Spirit
00:28:06disqualified for purposes of our contest?
00:28:08Because that's how I won last year.
00:28:09So I guess it but I'm taking credit for it.
00:28:13Yes. Yeah. No, no, no.
00:28:14Bill, you cannot be held responsible for that.
00:28:16So Bill is the first two time champion of the Kentucky Derby
00:28:19fantasy three year old contest.
00:28:21Go around for Bill.
00:28:24And I think his his secret is telling me every year that my team
00:28:28you have the best group. Yes.
00:28:31Well, the best one next year, for sure.
00:28:33Yeah, he's already scared.
00:28:35He's already scared of my team for next year.
00:28:37So shout out to Bill.
00:28:38And it's always always a great time doing that contest.
00:28:41We got to come up with like a real prize.
00:28:42We can't just have like the virtual crown on Bill's head.
00:28:45That's right. Fun as that is.
00:28:47I don't know. Maybe maybe we'll buy him Red Sox tickets or something.
00:28:51They're cheap now. Yes, I think.
00:28:53Yeah, this year, especially this year, I haven't noticed.
00:28:58Can we get like a like a wrestler's belt?
00:29:01You know how they have made it off the river somewhere.
00:29:05So maybe we'll do that.
00:29:07We'll do that for next year's contest.
00:29:08Well, we'll make one of those custom belts like the fantasy football guys do.
00:29:12But so congrats to Bill and Al with a great showing, obviously, as well.
00:29:14Just just came up five points short with Zanda not quite getting past
00:29:18a presenter for a second.
00:29:19But it's also about the Oaks, because we talked we talked,
00:29:22you know, for weeks and months about how the Oaks was right up there
00:29:26with the Derby in terms of cash and in terms of interest.
00:29:29I don't think it really disappointed.
00:29:30You know, you want to say that Kathleen O was a little bit of a no show.
00:29:34You know, I can agree with that.
00:29:35But everybody else, I thought, ran pretty damn well.
00:29:37I thought Echo Zoo.
00:29:38You know, I called this.
00:29:39I didn't make any money on the race, but I called this.
00:29:41I said Echo Zulu could run the best race for her life and run for that.
00:29:45That's exactly what she did.
00:29:46She was forced through a fast pace, held on for fourth.
00:29:49She ran great.
00:29:50But Secret Oath was just much the best.
00:29:52Ness ran pretty well.
00:29:53Desert Dawn as well, who I mentioned in the Coolmore spot,
00:29:56I think that she is an up and coming three year old filly.
00:29:59That would have made my weekend if she had gotten second behind Secret Oath.
00:30:02I got a little bit greedy
00:30:03trying to get one of those long shots into the exact instead of the try.
00:30:06She just stuck with the try.
00:30:08But Secret Oath got a great ride, typically great ride from Luis Saez.
00:30:11Good call switching to him because not many riders are better
00:30:15than him on a day to day basis or in big races.
00:30:17And now it looks like she is maybe possibly probably going to go to the Preakness.
00:30:22I think that the Derby result aided that decision for D.
00:30:25Wayne Lucas that we expect is coming.
00:30:27But what were you guys impressions from the Oaks?
00:30:30Yeah, I mean, it was a terrific race.
00:30:31And, you know, the big four we're talking about,
00:30:34the only one that snuck in there and beat them, Joe, is your horse,
00:30:38the Cupid, the Arizona Bread, Desert Dawn.
00:30:41But now, you know, this first of all, I did not like the bash line makers.
00:30:46But why was Secret Oath six to one on the line?
00:30:48That was that was crazy there.
00:30:50But, you know, she not only won, she beat a stellar, stellar group.
00:30:54And she's really, really good.
00:30:55Now, the story before, I don't know why Wayne Lucas is sitting there
00:30:59telling like the Pimlico Notes team every day, I haven't made up my mind.
00:31:02Yes, you have.
00:31:02When you go into Preakness, everybody knows that.
00:31:04I mean, there's no chance he's and he should.
00:31:07If the only horse, if if Epicenter runs,
00:31:12he will be the favorite in the Preakness.
00:31:13If not, Secret Oath will be the favorite in the Preakness.
00:31:17And it's it brings back that we talk about the mind, the bird story.
00:31:21And the second chapter of Mind That Bird was Mind That Bird versus Rachel
00:31:24Alexandra in that Preakness with Rachel Alexander beating him.
00:31:28You have virtually the same storyline, a crazy long shot
00:31:31that nobody gave any respect to in the Derby coming back off,
00:31:34you know, a Kentucky Oaks winner who was just, you know, sensational, et cetera.
00:31:38I don't think Secret Oath is as good as Rachel Alexander.
00:31:40I don't know if there's been a Philly since she raced that is as good as her.
00:31:45But she's you know, she's right up there as well.
00:31:48You know, the race, you know, the only way the race could have been better
00:31:51is if you had like the four horses, you know, coming in,
00:31:54looking each other in the eye and the eight ball and somebody pulling it out
00:31:57by a nose. That was too much to expect.
00:32:00Ness ran great. She just ran into a very, very good horse.
00:32:03She was second.
00:32:04And I do agree, Joe.
00:32:05Kathleen O, who I was a big fan of all along,
00:32:08a little disappointed with her performance.
00:32:09But, you know, Secret Oath in the Preakness against Rick Strike
00:32:14and whoever else shows up, you know, that's that's the storyline next week.
00:32:18I think this race fulfilled
00:32:20all the hype that we had been expecting and discussing, I should say.
00:32:24And the top four horses, you know, yeah,
00:32:26they finished for four of them finishing the top five, which is, you know,
00:32:29which is really, really good.
00:32:31Joe, you were spot on with saying Echo Zulu can run
00:32:34her career best and run fourth and to pat myself on the back.
00:32:38I also said and Kathleen O is getting ready to bounce
00:32:41and not that fifth place is a bounce, but she certainly didn't,
00:32:44you know, didn't run the way that that that we had hoped that she was going to run.
00:32:48But that being said, you know, once I stopped hurting my back
00:32:51by patting ourselves on the back, you know, Secret Oath and Ness also.
00:32:56Both ran just phenomenal races.
00:32:58And and, you know, the pace was similar to the Derby in the sense that it fell apart.
00:33:03But at least for the Phillies, the top horses are the ones that hit the wire,
00:33:07you know, first and second and fourth and fifth.
00:33:12I still think that that pound for pound, the Phillies
00:33:15this year are better than the Colts.
00:33:18That's just my opinion.
00:33:20But I really feel like that, you know, to have a horse like Secret Oath
00:33:24who won the Oaths, you know, the way she did.
00:33:27And now she's going to be arguably maybe the first or second choice
00:33:31in the Preakness again, shows you at the top of the of the heap
00:33:34that that the Phillies are better.
00:33:36And I don't know if Ness, Echo Zulu, Kathleen O,
00:33:41even Shamaha are any, you know, less worthy of being in the black eye, Susan.
00:33:48And of course, Desert Dawn.
00:33:50I mean, I don't want to I don't want to, you know, keep the Arizona Cupid,
00:33:54you know, out of out of the conversation.
00:33:56But, you know, she she was what?
00:33:59Fifty to one in the race for a reason, because the top four were just,
00:34:02you know, head and shoulders on paper better than everything else in the race.
00:34:05But I think overall, I was really, really excited about the way the Oaks came out.
00:34:09And and part of me wants to see Secret Oath run in the Preakness.
00:34:13But I want to rematch.
00:34:14I want to see those three or four Phillies back in the black eyed Susan again,
00:34:19you know, going going head to head and dueling it out.
00:34:22I'm hoping that these group that this group of Phillies
00:34:26are going to be similar to the Phillies and Mayors that we've been watching
00:34:30battling out Monomoy Girl and She Dares the Devil and Horses of that Oak.
00:34:35And I hope that all of these Phillies continue to stay healthy
00:34:38and stay at that grade one level, because it's going to be a really,
00:34:41really exciting spring and summer, you know, around the country.
00:34:45If these Phillies get to battle each other out at various
00:34:48important grade ones throughout the year.
00:34:50Well, that's the whole thing.
00:34:51It's like, I don't I don't think it makes any sense to run the black eyed Susan,
00:34:54which is a grade two and was at once a really important three year old Philly
00:34:58race and has decreased in importance over the years.
00:35:01So I think it makes more sense for those top Phillies to try the boys now.
00:35:05And then you have all summer
00:35:07to clash in the coaching club, American Oaks and the Alabama
00:35:10and all those kinds of races.
00:35:11And, you know, we talked to Michael Rapoli last week and he hinted
00:35:15that he could try Nest in the Belmont.
00:35:17Now, he said that basically it's if she wins,
00:35:20that's probably where we're going to go next.
00:35:22She ran second like she did run well.
00:35:24She didn't win the race.
00:35:26So I don't think that it makes
00:35:27that I think it makes more sense for him to try her in the Belmont,
00:35:30depending on who shows up.
00:35:31You know, you never know who's going to show up.
00:35:33But he's got he's got a really nice Philly that I think it's
00:35:38and I don't want to trash the black eyed Susan too much,
00:35:40but I think it's a little beneath her.
00:35:41I think it's a little beneath her and secret oath.
00:35:43I think that there are bigger, more worthy challenges for them,
00:35:47at least in the near future.
00:35:48And I agree with you guys, this has the potential to be a great summer
00:35:51and fall with those three year old fillies and throw in the mix.
00:35:54Horses like Latruska and some of the really nice CC,
00:35:57some of the nice, really older fillies and mares that we have
00:36:00could be a really, really fun fall with the three year old fillies
00:36:04clashing against the older mares, because we're really blessed
00:36:07to have a lot of great fillies and mares racing at the moment.
00:36:10And Bill has talked about this, about how, you know, those are the horses
00:36:13who are sticking around because so many of the Colts are getting retired
00:36:16during or after their three year old.
00:36:18And the fillies and mares are the ones that, you know, put asses in the seats
00:36:22as far as racing fans go.
00:36:24You know, just I want to talk a little bit about the undercard
00:36:26if you guys are good with that, unless you have any other thoughts
00:36:28about the Oaks, because it was a it was a phenomenal weekend of racing,
00:36:32as we expected.
00:36:33It's always a great weekend of racing at Churchill Downs
00:36:35the first weekend in May.
00:36:36And there were there were so many impressive performances
00:36:39that I'm just going to mention a couple and I'll talk to you guys
00:36:41and then you can throw it back to me.
00:36:43You know, my boy Olympiad, I think he's ready for grade one company
00:36:46because he looked dead on the turn, man.
00:36:48He was he looked like he was in deep, deep water horses on both sides of him.
00:36:53And he just responds and finishes so fast.
00:36:55I can't remember, honestly, the last dirt horse
00:36:58I saw, a two turn dirt horse, at least, who had that kind of finishing kick.
00:37:03He came home in twenty nine and change again.
00:37:05You just don't see that consistently going two turns.
00:37:08So I think he's ready for grade one company.
00:37:09It sounds like they're going to point towards the Whitney.
00:37:11I think that's smart.
00:37:12I think I don't think he's quite fast enough.
00:37:15If life is good and flight line and all those monsters show up in the Met Mile,
00:37:19I don't think he's quite fast enough going a mile to tackle those horses.
00:37:22But any two turn race this summer and fall, I want him at a price
00:37:25if he's going to be anything three to one or higher because he's just
00:37:28he's a total monster.
00:37:29I don't care what his figures say.
00:37:31And the other ones that really jumped out to me
00:37:33was Speak of the Devil in the Distaff Turf Mile.
00:37:36She was absolutely incredible in that race.
00:37:39And she was bought for two million euros last year by Peter Brandt
00:37:43at the end of her European season.
00:37:45I don't remember the last time I saw a horse go from last to first that quickly.
00:37:49And it was a slow pace.
00:37:51Her stablemate in Italian was was just doing her own thing.
00:37:54Nice and easy on the lead.
00:37:55Twenty four. Forty nine.
00:37:56Speak of the devil was way back there.
00:37:58And as someone who singled her, I thought I was screwed
00:38:01watching that pace and watching where she was.
00:38:03And then the blink of an eye, she was in first turning for home.
00:38:06And I just, you know, again, 98 buyer don't care what the figure was.
00:38:11Visually, that was one of the most impressive turns of foot
00:38:14and impressive turf races I've seen from a failure in a long, long time.
00:38:18Got to think that just the game is next on the Belmont undercard.
00:38:21She is going to be appointment viewing for me going forward, at least.
00:38:25What's what else stood out to you guys from the weekend?
00:38:26Well, I've been on the Jack Christopher bandwagon from day one.
00:38:30It's been very disappointed that he didn't make it to the Kentucky Derby,
00:38:33but he came back very strong in the Pat Day mile.
00:38:36I did talk to Chad Brown yesterday.
00:38:38And, you know, obviously the Triple Crown races are out.
00:38:40He's not going to come back in two weeks in the Pringles
00:38:42and he's not going to go back in the Belmont to go from a mile to mile and a half.
00:38:45So he's looking at the Woody Stevens.
00:38:47But then his big goal of the year is the Haskell.
00:38:50And, you know, he did it exactly as advertised.
00:38:53I mean, just dominated a pretty decent field in there.
00:38:56He's going to move on to bigger and better things, you know, come.
00:38:59If he stays healthy, come the end of the year.
00:39:00I do think he's the best three year old around, three year old Colt around.
00:39:05The other one, too, was I didn't like Jackie's Warrior.
00:39:07I really didn't.
00:39:08I didn't like his comeback race.
00:39:10One bid in the count fleet.
00:39:11I thought that, you know, he was very vulnerable at a very short price.
00:39:15And he really proved me wrong in the Churchill Downstakes.
00:39:17He was really, really good.
00:39:19And this sets up what we might have for the Met mile.
00:39:23Jackie's Warrior, Flightline and Speaker's Corner.
00:39:26Now, you could possibly I don't think life is good is going to make it.
00:39:29They don't seem to be going anywhere with him right now.
00:39:32But, you know, as good it would be to have him in there.
00:39:36My goodness, what a race that would be of all three go.
00:39:39And I would suspect that that is where all three are looking at.
00:39:43So, you know, that sets up for, you know, a race that especially
00:39:46if it's one of those clunker Belmont's where, you know, this different horse
00:39:49wins the Derby in Preakness and then, you know, to the the non racing fan.
00:39:53You know, they're not even going to care or know what the Met miles.
00:39:55But to the racing people, you know, that could be on Belmont Day,
00:39:59the race that is just, you know, the sizzling event that everybody's
00:40:02looking forward to.
00:40:03So, you know, and also another thing about Jackie's Warrior,
00:40:06I don't have any statistics on this, but, you know, what a credit to the horse.
00:40:10He's now a grade one winner at two, three and four.
00:40:13Amazing. And, you know, the Connections do deserve some credit.
00:40:16They could have retired him and he would have been very much in demand as a stallion.
00:40:21You know, thank you for bringing him back one more year
00:40:23and giving us a chance to see him run again.
00:40:25Friend of the show, Kirk Robinson.
00:40:27Thanks for bringing him back.
00:40:28Yeah, John.
00:40:29And Bill, you hit on the two races that I was going to talk about,
00:40:33which is Jackie's Warrior, who who just from the moment the gate opened,
00:40:37exploded and took over that grade one, the grade one sprint.
00:40:41And like you said, you know, it's amazing that the horse is a grade one winner
00:40:45at three different distances, three different ages
00:40:48and came back with a 105 buyer.
00:40:50So he's really rounding into form right now.
00:40:53I was actually very impressed with the Pat Dang mile with Jack Christopher
00:40:56and also with Papa Cat.
00:40:58And I know I'm a homer because, you know, Mark has trains, Papa Cat.
00:41:01And and Mark trains the majority of horses for us.
00:41:05But really, there's a horse that if you watch the race down the stretch,
00:41:08you know, Papa Cat was in front and Jack Christopher looked like he was going by.
00:41:12I'm like Papa Cat was tied to the to to the rail,
00:41:15you know, and wasn't going anywhere.
00:41:17And Papa Cat did try and to come back.
00:41:20But Jack Christopher was just that much more talented and had that much momentum.
00:41:25But, you know, for me, the undercard race,
00:41:27if you take out the Derby in the Oaks, the undercard race was really the
00:41:30the Pat Dang mile and Jack Christopher, because not only did he win that race
00:41:34impressively, but guys, he hadn't run since October 2nd.
00:41:39And they brought him back and they didn't bring him back
00:41:41going six furlongs or seven furlongs.
00:41:43They brought him back on a mile, which is, you know, which is really hard
00:41:45for a horse coming off that kind of a layoff.
00:41:47And it did not look like the horse had any rust whatsoever.
00:41:51Chad Brown did a phenomenal job getting the horse ready.
00:41:54And, you know, we talk about Chad and you immediately think of,
00:41:57you know, the great turf races that he wins every spring and summer
00:42:00and and how how well he does with the Euros
00:42:04and with horses here on the turf races on the big stage.
00:42:08But here's a horse that is a dirt
00:42:11miler that he is rounding in the form.
00:42:13And, you know, you could say that he's doing a great training job on this horse,
00:42:18more so than some of the older, more seasoned horses that he has,
00:42:21because I don't think we've gotten to the bottom of Jack Christopher's talent yet.
00:42:24Yeah, I agree.
00:42:25And, you know, a lot of those European turf horses, obviously,
00:42:28Chad does a great job, but they come to him more ready made
00:42:31than a horse like Jack Christopher, who he really has to work on,
00:42:34especially with that layoff.
00:42:35He did say after the race that he compared him to Gossapper,
00:42:38where I thought that he had a little too much dip on his chip there.
00:42:41So I'm comparing those two because Gossapper to me is one of the greatest horses
00:42:45of the 21st century, at the very least, probably of the last 50 years or so.
00:42:50But he certainly is a super, super talented horse.
00:42:53And I think it makes sense.
00:42:54I think it makes sense if you're not going to wheel him back in two weeks
00:42:57in the pregnancy to run him in the Woody Stevens,
00:42:59because you don't want to run him a mile and a half.
00:43:01It's going to be interesting to see how far he wants to go, being by Munnings.
00:43:04But I think the end goal has to be the Breeders' Cup Classic,
00:43:08no matter what, with a horse that talented.
00:43:10So I thought he ran pretty well.
00:43:13I thought the field wasn't that great, but he did what he was supposed to do.
00:43:15He got a great ride from Jose Ortiz, too.
00:43:18He got him out of trouble, got him with that nice stalking trip in the clear.
00:43:21So definitely a really encouraging performance from him off of a seven month layoff.
00:43:25I mean, off of a fairly significant injury.
00:43:27So we're super looking forward to seeing him next, probably in the Woody Stevens.
00:43:32Just a couple of other horses I wanted to mention before we wrap up the weekend.
00:43:34I thought Santin was a big overlay at seven to one in the Turf Classic.
00:43:40And I think he's a horse who's lightly raced and is moving forward for Brennan Walsh.
00:43:44So he only got a 101 buyer.
00:43:45It wasn't a great Turf Classic field, but I think he's a horse to watch
00:43:49in the Turf division that doesn't really have any standouts right now.
00:43:52So I would keep an eye on him as well.
00:43:55Obligatory, who has that huge monster closing kick, winning the Derby City Distaff.
00:44:01And just her being owned by Judd Mono reminded me how happy I was to see Arrogate
00:44:06get the Oaks win with Secret Oath, because obviously he passed too soon.
00:44:10But she's going to carry his flag a little bit.
00:44:12And then a horse I wanted to mention at, actually before we move on,
00:44:15Churchill Bleeker Street.
00:44:17She's not super fast on paper, but she's six for six now.
00:44:20Won the modesty at Churchill Downs.
00:44:22You don't often see horses who are six for six from the Chad Brown barn never get
00:44:26talked about.
00:44:27But nobody ever mentions Bleeker Street, but she just keeps getting better.
00:44:30Matt Areya and the Eight Bells got a really good trip under Flavian Pratt, but she
00:44:33looked good.
00:44:35And then one other horse I wanted to mention from Belmont, who I think might be
00:44:38coming on a little bit, is Cody's Wish in the Westchester district.
00:44:41He's got a 104 buyer, son of Curlin for Belmont.
00:44:45He was a horse that I thought was a little bit of a disappointment last year.
00:44:49He got bent to short prices a lot and didn't really live up to it.
00:44:52But now as he turns to his four-year-old year, I think he's a horse that might be a
00:44:58little bit under the radar and might shake things up a little bit in the mile
00:45:00division.
00:45:01Obviously, it's a stacked division, but I wouldn't throw him out completely if he's
00:45:06a big price in the met mile.
00:45:07So terrific, terrific weekend of racing.
00:45:09We're going to have a little bit of a lull this week and that week between the
00:45:13Derby and the Preakness.
00:45:14And then it's on to the Preakness.
00:45:16I'm looking forward to the undercard from that.
00:45:18And then Belmont Day.
00:45:19We're in the thick of it now, boys.
00:45:21It's full speed ahead from here to the Breeders' Cup.
00:45:24The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Lane's End.
00:45:27Lane's End's stallion of the week this week is Quality Road.
00:45:29Obviously a monster stallion.
00:45:31It's had so much success this year.
00:45:33He's already been represented by Group 1 Saudi Cup winner Emblem Road, as well as
00:45:37Bleaker Street, who I just mentioned a minute or two ago.
00:45:40Undefeated in six career starts after winning the Modesty over the weekend for
00:45:44Chad Brown and Peter Brandt.
00:45:45Quality Road stands for $150,000 this year at Lane's End.
00:45:49And he's one of those few stallions you could honestly say is a bargain at that
00:45:53price because he just produces runner after runner after runner.
00:45:56And we'll be right back after this message from Lane's End.
00:45:59Quality Road, proving Lane's End's tried and true stallion making tradition.
00:46:04A tradition that leads to success for our partners and our stallions.
00:46:08Quality Road has sired multiple Eclipse Award and Grade 1 winners, including
00:46:13champion two-year-old Colt Corniche, champion two-year-old Philly Caledonia
00:46:17Road, champion three-year-old Philly Abel Tasman, and multiple Grade 1 winner
00:46:22City of Light.
00:46:23He's a leader of his generation.
00:46:26Quality Road, a stallion that stands above the rest.
00:46:30With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round,
00:46:35there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and
00:46:38racing in Kentucky.
00:46:41Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per
00:46:46race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:46:50Kentucky breads.
00:46:52Breed them, raise them, race them.
00:46:56We all win.
00:47:00The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and
00:47:03Breeders.
00:47:04Fantastic weekend, as you would expect for Kentucky breads at Churchill Downs on
00:47:07Friday.
00:47:08Secret Oaks became the sixth Kentucky bread in a row to win the Kentucky Oaks.
00:47:12On Saturday, all four Grade 1 winners from that blockbuster card, Obligatory,
00:47:16Jackie's Warrior, Santan, and Rich Strike were all bred at Kentucky Calumet Farm.
00:47:20The breeders of Rich Strike earned a $50,000 KBIF registered bonus for the
00:47:25Colt's historic derby wins.
00:47:26Kentucky breads obviously continuing to dominate, and we expect to see that on
00:47:30the rest of the Triple Crown Trail.
00:47:32Now let's get to our Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:47:35The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group, an
00:47:37accounting, tax, consulting, and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
00:47:41industry.
00:47:42With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to
00:47:45save you taxes.
00:47:46Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:47:51So we're beyond thrilled this week to welcome the voice of the Triple Crown and
00:47:55the Breeders' Cup for NBC, Larry Colmus.
00:47:56Thanks for coming on.
00:47:58Absolutely.
00:47:58Great to be with you guys.
00:48:00Great to have the Kentucky Derby over and done with.
00:48:03Yeah, it's got to be a little bit of a stress reliever for you, getting all that
00:48:06prep work to get to the Derby.
00:48:08Thought it was a great call, as always.
00:48:10So let's take a listen to Larry's call from the Kentucky Derby, which is
00:48:13obviously a brilliant call as usual.
00:48:15It might have sounded a little bit surprised when Rich Strike came up the
00:48:18rail, but I think we were all surprised.
00:48:19So let's take a listen to that.
00:48:29The longest shot has won the Kentucky Derby.
00:48:33Rich Strike has done it in a stunning, unbelievable upset.
00:48:39It's obviously a terrific call from Larry.
00:48:41The hardest race to call in the world, but every year he nails it.
00:48:44So, Larry, how did that feel?
00:48:47Well, when Rich Strike made that move on the inside, I wish I had caught him a
00:48:51little bit sooner, but I was glad to catch him at all.
00:48:55And when I said, oh my goodness, I meant it because I was as
00:48:59shocked as anybody else.
00:49:01It was seamless.
00:49:01Honestly, it was a seamless transition.
00:49:03I thought it was great.
00:49:03It was seamless and it was so organic, Larry.
00:49:06I mean, when you said, wow, a shocker in the Kentucky Derby, that was the best
00:49:11articulated way of saying it because the rest of us who were watching it around
00:49:15the world were cursing about, holy crap, I can't believe this 80-to-1 shot was
00:49:19coming down, and I know I heard an interview on Al Michaels and they asked
00:49:24him about the, do you believe in miracles call?
00:49:26And he said, no, it was just really off the cuff.
00:49:28You could tell that one was off the cuff for you as well, watching
00:49:31Rich Strike up the rail.
00:49:32You know, almost everything Kentucky Derby wise is off the cuff.
00:49:35You know, I'll admit in other races, like when American Pharaoh is going for the
00:49:39triple crown and you want the right things to say, you know, be a part of
00:49:43the history of that event, but the Kentucky Derby, there's 20 horses to keep
00:49:48track of and yeah, there's a few, you know, Cyberknife slicing through traffic,
00:49:52you know, stuff like that, that, you know, comes into your head.
00:49:55I didn't have anything for Rich Strike and I didn't have anything for pretty
00:49:59much any horse in that race because there's just, there's so many possibilities
00:50:05and you just want to call that race.
00:50:06And, and when that horse, you know, you just knew when it was Rich Strike,
00:50:11you know, you realize the significance.
00:50:14I mean, this horse wasn't even going to be in this race and all of a
00:50:17sudden he's in this race, he's got to be the longest shot on the board.
00:50:19You know, I, I, I wasn't a hundred percent sure of that, but I was, you
00:50:23know, eight, 80 to one, 80% sure, you know, cause I think there was one
00:50:27other 80 to one shot in there, but he, I mean, I was shocked that it
00:50:32was him, to be honest with you.
00:50:35I wanted to ask, like you have, I think you have a very unique calling
00:50:38style, but I imagine, you know, growing up being a young race caller, you
00:50:42pick some other stuff up from some of your influences, who were some of the
00:50:45guys that you looked up to, or you might've emulated a little bit as you
00:50:49were growing up as a race caller.
00:50:50I think you do naturally get a lot from everybody.
00:50:53You know, you, you're listening to different people.
00:50:55So when I first was calling races as a, as a kid in Maryland, where I grew up
00:51:00as a backup announcer in Maryland, I was 18 years old, Marshall Cassidy
00:51:04was calling in New York, uh, back then, you know, you, you had Dave Johnson.
00:51:09That was the voice of the triple crown.
00:51:11And then of course, Tom Durkin comes along and Trevor Denman comes along.
00:51:16And you know, you hear all these different things.
00:51:18And I think a little bit of everybody gets in your head.
00:51:22And, uh, no, I think when I first started, when I first was calling, I probably
00:51:27had more Dave Johnson than anybody.
00:51:30And then I got the job at Golden Gate Fields in California, and I probably
00:51:35had more Trevor Denman than anybody.
00:51:37Uh, and then more Tom Durkin listening to him than anybody.
00:51:41And so I think it, it, a mishmash all comes together and
00:51:45you become you eventually.
00:51:46And, uh, you know, it's like, well, it's a, it's a natural process.
00:51:50You just let it happen.
00:51:51Yeah.
00:51:52Yeah.
00:51:52And, and, and Larry, give the audience an idea of when, when you're going
00:51:55into a race and you're studying it.
00:51:57Um, number one, how you prepare for the race, whether it's the weird, weirdly
00:52:02pronounced names or, um, you know, you remember certain silks and, and the
00:52:06other, the other question is also, um, you know, is there a race in particular
00:52:10that you look forward to every year?
00:52:12Uh, well, as far as the first part of the question and the preparation varies,
00:52:16um, the Kentucky Derby is its own thing.
00:52:20So in other words, I'll start like everybody else watching the prep races,
00:52:25uh, from January and, and start to familiarize myself with those horses.
00:52:31And then when we get to crunch time, you know, within 10 days of the race,
00:52:35Churchill Downs will send me a PDF file of all the jockey silks, and I will make
00:52:41flashcards and I'll start memorizing the names just five, six times a day.
00:52:45That's this horse.
00:52:46That's this horse.
00:52:47That's this horse.
00:52:48Thank goodness.
00:52:48I, I did the also eligibles to Rick strike.
00:52:53Wasn't one of those 20 horses until the day before, but yeah, that's,
00:52:57that's how you do that.
00:52:58And then of course you're, you've got colors that may be similar in the Derby.
00:53:02So you want to know running styles.
00:53:05You want to know what color of the horses, any facial markings.
00:53:09Any facial markings.
00:53:10Do they have a white blaze?
00:53:11Do they not?
00:53:12Do they wear blinkers?
00:53:13You know, anything to separate all those horses in the Derby now on a, on a day
00:53:17to day basis, you don't have to do that because you know, you, you've, you've
00:53:21got 12 horses max, so, and less pressure, you know, your legs aren't shaking
00:53:26and you're not like out of your mind.
00:53:28So, um, on a day to day basis, what I'll do is I have an iPad and I will
00:53:35color in all the jockey silks myself.
00:53:37I'll make little, you know, jockey silk, uh, photos sort of, you know, just
00:53:43drawings, and then, um, I'll take a look at that before each race.
00:53:47And then when the horses come on the track, I verify that those colors are
00:53:50right based on the description and the program, and then just look at them on
00:53:55the track until I can go through the entire field and say, okay, I know who
00:53:58they all are and, um, and go from there.
00:54:02Good on you for being prepared for the also eligibles because we did
00:54:04a Derby handicapping show last week.
00:54:06We talked about the race for probably an hour and did not mention
00:54:10Red Strike once the entire time.
00:54:12You're not the only one.
00:54:14That's why you are where you are, the preparation, but you know, so
00:54:18now you're, you're basically, I would say a part-time race caller.
00:54:21You're doing all the TV stuff, but you're not calling every single day.
00:54:24What are like the pros and cons of that?
00:54:26Do you miss being an everyday race caller or do you prefer it like this?
00:54:29I miss it.
00:54:30You know, I, I, I'd be happy to be doing that on a regular basis.
00:54:34I think it actually would help, um, if I was calling more races, uh, with
00:54:39the big races, because you'd be more into the flow of things.
00:54:41In fact, I, I asked NBC to fly me into Kentucky on Monday so that I could
00:54:46start calling races just by myself up in that booth where I'm going to call
00:54:51the Kentucky Derby starting on Tuesday.
00:54:53So I'm calling these claiming races, just, you know, in allowance races, just
00:54:56to, you know, get into the flow of things.
00:55:00You know, before, um, when I was calling for Naira, I would start around what
00:55:04Memorial week and I'd have a couple of weeks under my belt to, to get
00:55:08back into the flow of things.
00:55:09So I do sort of miss that.
00:55:12And, but as far as being a day-to-day race caller, yeah.
00:55:15I mean, I, I love doing it.
00:55:16Um, things just were, were weird in New York, whatever, but, um, you know,
00:55:22hopefully one day the right situation will come along and, uh, until then
00:55:26I've, I've been, you know, having fun with TVG and doing stuff with them.
00:55:30And, you know, it's, it's been, uh, it's been good, you know?
00:55:34So, um, I'm kind of, the one thing I don't miss, uh, is the trips from the
00:55:39Jersey shore to the Belmont and aqueduct, because if anybody's made that commute
00:55:43before it's, it's, it could be living hell actually.
00:55:48Exactly.
00:55:49And Larry, when you, when you look at the, the pest performance, it sounds
00:55:52like you do some handicapping in advance just to get an idea of certain
00:55:56styles that horses have, um, which is, which is wonderful.
00:55:59Are there certain names that you look at and you go, Oh, geez, I can't believe
00:56:02I got to pronounce this name again.
00:56:04Um, for this horse, there's, there's a few, uh, there's, it's more, more like
00:56:09the other way around where you're, you like to have fun with horses names.
00:56:12There's certain ones that, uh, you enjoy.
00:56:15I remember there was a horse in Florida named Blarp when I was down there and I
00:56:19was, I've always liked this Blarp, have fun with him, but there, I remember one
00:56:23in Jersey, uh, just way too many syllables.
00:56:27Uh, the horse's name was Preston digitation.
00:56:30Wow.
00:56:31And by itself it's okay.
00:56:32But if that horse is it, uh, you know, battling two other horses in the stretch
00:56:36and you were both of them, God knows what comes out of your mouth.
00:56:40So yeah, there's, there's some that are, they're tougher than others.
00:56:43And a lot of times too, the, the really plain names like rich strike, uh, are
00:56:50the, are the ones that are harder to remember because they're so plain.
00:56:54You know, so they don't stick in your head as much as one
00:56:57with a, with a very unique name.
00:56:59So if you owned a horse that you can name anything you want,
00:57:01what would you name it?
00:57:05That's a good question.
00:57:06Something easy to pronounce and easy to remember.
00:57:08So I don't know.
00:57:11I probably named him after myself.
00:57:13Well, no, cause I'd forget my own name.
00:57:14So no, I wouldn't do that either.
00:57:18You know, John mentioned how you handicap the races.
00:57:20And I think that's good.
00:57:21That adds to your call as the context, you know, when horses are surprisingly
00:57:24up close or surprisingly far back, do you handicap the races normally?
00:57:28As are you a better at all?
00:57:30I don't normally do much betting.
00:57:32Now, lately working with TVG, I've, you know, they're, they're having
00:57:36me handicap, which is a new thing.
00:57:38You know, for me, uh, I, you know, obviously a fan all my life.
00:57:41So I I'm, I'm like everybody else, you know, trying to figure out who's
00:57:44going to win these different races, but, but having to do it on a regular
00:57:48basis now it's, uh, and put in these pick fours and pick fives and trying
00:57:52to hit those things, which isn't the easiest thing, but, uh, yeah, I mean.
00:57:56I think you're always looking for, you know, how you think the race is going
00:58:01to be run, uh, even as, you know, when you're calling it and what to expect,
00:58:05which horses you, you know, when they ran 45 and change for a half in the
00:58:09Derby, you knew something was going to be up late, somebody's going to be
00:58:12coming and you, you know, you're prepared for, for whoever that is going
00:58:16to be, except for rich strike because it couldn't possibly be him, but, uh,
00:58:20it was, you know, these things happen.
00:58:23Right.
00:58:23And, and Larry, when you're sitting there looking at the races, especially
00:58:26for this past weekend, was there a non Derby race that you were really
00:58:30looking forward to the Oaks or Jack Christopher winning the Pat day mile?
00:58:34Was there one in particular that you, that you were really, you
00:58:36know, that really resonated with you?
00:58:38Oh, for sure.
00:58:39The Oaks, you know, because you had the undefeated Phillies in there
00:58:42with the, these other talented ones.
00:58:44And, you know, you, you knew it was going to be, uh, you know, something
00:58:48that had to happen because there were so many great Phillies in there and D
00:58:51Wayne wins it, you know, and now we get to probably call her in the Preakness,
00:58:55which is going to be pretty exciting.
00:58:57But the, the other, uh, the other race was, you know, Jackie's warrior.
00:59:01You know, I, I think that horse is, is super talented and it was, and, uh,
00:59:05that was a, that was a pretty good field.
00:59:07And like you said, the, the comeback of Jack Christopher, there's others, you
00:59:11know, Derby week is full of great races and you look forward to all of them.
00:59:15Yeah.
00:59:16I'm sure there are a couple of people on watching this show who aspire to be
00:59:19race callers or at least have a passion for race calling without
00:59:23giving away any of your secrets.
00:59:24What are a couple of pieces of advice you might have for someone who's young and
00:59:28coming up and wants to be a race caller?
00:59:31One of the things now these days is be prepared to wear a bunch of hats
00:59:34because, uh, very few tracks are, are hiring people just to call races, you
00:59:39know, learn, learn how to, you know, be a good writer, learn how to do interviews,
00:59:43learn how to, you know, do television.
00:59:45You know what that, I think all of that's really important as far as
00:59:49the, the race calling thing, accuracy is number one, that's, that's the
00:59:53most important thing, get it right.
00:59:56And don't worry about being too cute as far as, you know, at first, you know,
01:00:00that's the last thing you want to be doing.
01:00:01You, and, you know, don't make it about you make it about what's going on on the
01:00:06racetrack and, and, and, you know, follow the action as best as you can.
01:00:10And I think when you first are starting, um, and, and, uh, I was told this and
01:00:15it, the, you practice calling these races and you can't get enough practice, but
01:00:20slow down, don't try to run with the horses.
01:00:22Just keep it easy, keep the pace steady.
01:00:26And then, uh, you know, when you get more and more into it and I've done it so
01:00:30many times, it just becomes a little bit easier, except when it's the Kentucky
01:00:34Derby and that never gets easier.
01:00:36Yeah.
01:00:36Right.
01:00:37And Larry, I don't have any more questions for you, but I
01:00:39do have a compliment for you.
01:00:40When, when you were calling the races at Monmouth park and we used to run
01:00:44a bunch of horses at Monmouth, um, it was all, it wasn't pre-internet, but
01:00:48it was certainly pre when they were showing the live races on, on the
01:00:52internet and I used to ask my wife or my mom to put the phone up to the
01:00:56speaker so I could hear you do the call and I could picture it in my mind.
01:01:00And, and to me, that was the best thing that could happen because the way that
01:01:03you described the races and what was going on, I didn't need to watch it.
01:01:07I could just listen and have a picture in my head.
01:01:09So I wanted to genuinely thank you for doing that for all
01:01:12those years at Monmouth park.
01:01:13Well, thank you because that's, that's to me, that's the ultimate compliment
01:01:16because that's, that's the job to call a race for someone who's not watching it.
01:01:22I mean, if you, if you, if that person who isn't able to see the race can
01:01:27picture what's going on, then you've succeeded, I think, and that's,
01:01:31and that's what it's all about.
01:01:32Yeah.
01:01:33I got a second with John said, you know, a lot of times I watch the races on mute,
01:01:36but when you're calling, I make sure to have the sound down.
01:01:39So I hope that's the ultimate compliment.
01:01:42I usually am the other way around.
01:01:43I, I'd mute myself.
01:01:48Um, just last question for me.
01:01:50You know, I, one of the things that struck me about watching the derby on
01:01:52Saturday was how great it was to see the stands packed to see everybody back
01:01:57and all the energy in the building.
01:01:59Obviously you're pretty far removed.
01:02:00You're pretty up high.
01:02:01But could you feel that?
01:02:02Could you feel kind of a return to normalcy at the derby on Saturday?
01:02:05Yeah.
01:02:06I mean, there was, there were definitely, uh, you know, that, that
01:02:10buzz that you're used to having.
01:02:12Um, there were some wrinkles to that when Donald Trump showed up and was outside
01:02:16and everybody started turning around and looking up, I'm like, why are they looking
01:02:20up at me, you know, they're looking at, you know, he was like on the fifth floor
01:02:24down there, so I hadn't quite seen that before, but, uh, but, but outside of that,
01:02:29there was, uh, you know, there was a lot of, uh, you know, a lot of buzz to the
01:02:33whole of event and just looking around and not seeing any emptiness, just as a
01:02:38sea of people with all these different colors and like, ah, we're back, you know,
01:02:42this is the way it's supposed to be.
01:02:44And, and, uh, there's nothing like it.
01:02:46There's nothing like the Kentucky derby.
01:02:48Uh, you can, you can say any other race that you like better or whatever.
01:02:52And, but, you know, as far as the, as far as the field, uh, there's, there's
01:02:57just nothing like it here, at least in the United States.
01:03:01And, and, uh, and with that goes the, you know, the, the, the nervous energy
01:03:07that you try to control, because it honestly, it, it does affect you.
01:03:10And, and, you know, I do some breathing before just try to relax, but the palms
01:03:15get sweaty, even thinking about it now, my palms are getting sweaty again.
01:03:19I mean, it's, it's the derby's the derby and that's all there is to it.
01:03:23Well, listen, you couldn't tell, honestly, from, from your
01:03:25calls that you ever get nervous.
01:03:27But, you know, it was a great broadcast on Saturday and
01:03:30obviously you were a huge part of it.
01:03:31Larry.
01:03:31We love talking to you.
01:03:32Thanks for coming on.
01:03:33Absolutely.
01:03:34My pleasure guys.
01:03:34Anytime.
01:03:35Great to talk to you.
01:03:37The green group guest of the week is sponsored by the green group and
01:03:40accounting, tax consulting, and advisory firms specializing in the thoroughbred
01:03:44industry is this week's green group guest of the week, Larry Colness will
01:03:47receive a free one hour tax consultation.
01:03:49Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
01:03:53We'll be right back after this message from the green group.
01:03:57Why do the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select the
01:04:00green group as their tax advisor?
01:04:01We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
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01:04:51The TDN writer's room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:05:05The XBTV workout of the week this week features flight line, always appointment
01:05:09viewing, even when he just works out, worked five furlongs in 59 and one.
01:05:14So he's really ramping it up.
01:05:15That was the second fastest of 54 works at the distance on Sunday at
01:05:20for trainer, John Sadler, the son of tap.
01:05:22It has put in five works now in the past two months, cannot wait for
01:05:25his return to the starting gate.
01:05:26He's targeting, targeting the Met mile Belmont day, which we talked about earlier.
01:05:31And yeah, go, go check out all flight lines works.
01:05:33Cause he's always amazing to watch even when he's just breezing by himself.
01:05:37And I don't know, I don't know if XBTV could have helped you with, with rich
01:05:40strike as valuable as a resource as it is.
01:05:42I don't even think the XBTV workouts could have made you find rich strike, but
01:05:46they're going to have all the workouts for the Preakness contenders, Belmont
01:05:49contenders, like I said, of course, fight line.
01:05:51So definitely an invaluable resource as this racing season starts to heat up.
01:05:55It's been such a positive program so far today with all the great
01:05:59performances on the racetrack.
01:06:00Now snap back to reality.
01:06:03We have some trial dates coming up for Jason service and some of the remaining
01:06:06defendants in the FBI indictments and the federal doping trials.
01:06:10Um, this is, he's the big fish, obviously that's still remaining.
01:06:13Uh, TD Thornton reported on this on Monday that he is going to be, uh,
01:06:18tried alongside New York based veterinarian, Alexander Chan,
01:06:22starting on January 9th, 2023.
01:06:24There are also a couple of other defendants that are going to be
01:06:26tried later this year.
01:06:28Um, the judge Mary Kay Viscoso wrote in her, uh, May 6th scheduling order.
01:06:33These are firm.
01:06:35These are firm trial dates.
01:06:36The court will not accept delays.
01:06:38Now, if you remember, there's been a bunch of delays with this trial, some,
01:06:40some COVID related, some requested by the attorney.
01:06:43It sounds like we're going to get a conclusion, you know, within the next
01:06:47year or so with the Jason service thing, Bill knows more about this than me.
01:06:50I'm curious, you know, Corey Navarro pled guilty.
01:06:53He basically told the government everything they wanted to hear saying
01:06:57like a canary and still got five years.
01:06:59What are you expecting for the Jason service trial and maybe sentencing?
01:07:02Um, well, that's a good question, Joe, first of all, what is he thinking?
01:07:06The government is pitching a perfect game here.
01:07:08Everybody who comes before them gets nailed.
01:07:12This Lisa Janelli got found guilty last week.
01:07:15And, you know, it's, it's obvious.
01:07:16We've all seen this on all the, the, the shows that we watch.
01:07:19If you cut a deal, you get less, less time.
01:07:22Jason, you think rich strike didn't have much, you hear me, Jason,
01:07:28you're not Amy to one here, pal.
01:07:29You're 85, 80,000 to one.
01:07:32If you're watching Jason, show up your lawyer right now and
01:07:35say, throw in the towel, dude.
01:07:37I mean, so it's interesting.
01:07:39You brought that up.
01:07:39It's not, um, there's something that, and I don't have my notes in front of me,
01:07:42but, and again, the whole, I'm not a lawyer thing.
01:07:44But there's an interesting thing that hasn't got a lot of attention.
01:07:48Service originally was up for that same misbranding and adulteration
01:07:51charge that they're getting everybody, which is the five years in a
01:07:54superseding indictment, they added in some wire fraud charges, which are up
01:07:58to a memory surgeon, right up to 20 years.
01:08:01Could he wind up serving 20 years in prison, which would presumably at his
01:08:06age, maybe it'd be the rest of his life.
01:08:08Um, I don't know if he would get 20 years, but, but he's in line to get a
01:08:12much different sentence than Navarro or anyone else, which again, begs the reason.
01:08:17You know what, what, I mean, again, I, I guess the man, you know, wants to
01:08:21fight for, for his freedom and not go to jail, but you know, now the trial
01:08:26date set he's got between now and January.
01:08:28And also God only knows how much money he spent on his legal defense right now.
01:08:32It's gotta be, you know, have a lot of zeros on it.
01:08:35You know, again, I, I don't understand their, his, his, uh, direction that
01:08:42he's taking this when it would seem to just go to the government and say,
01:08:45give me, you know, 10 years, give me seven years, whatever, and I'll
01:08:49plead guilty and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
01:08:52Sounds so much like the way to go, but you know, maybe that'll happen
01:08:55eventually, but for now, uh, he's going to go to trial and it'll be very,
01:08:59very, and it'd be great theater because with Navarro, we didn't get the trial.
01:09:03You know, we don't, we never got anything beyond the original
01:09:05indictment and, and the wiretaps and all the juicy, you know, very juicy
01:09:09stuff that he had juicy, get it.
01:09:12Had to say in that.
01:09:14Um, but, uh, you know, we didn't get the next chapters of
01:09:17the story because he pled guilty.
01:09:19Um, you know, it, from a, a writing standpoint and a journalist standpoint,
01:09:23I can't wait for the service trial.
01:09:25I want to be in that courtroom every day and just see, and, you know, watch him,
01:09:29you know, and at the end of the day, dude, you're going to be found guilty
01:09:33and you're going to go to jail for a long time.
01:09:35Why not just, you know, right now, figure out a way to lessen the damage.
01:09:41I think what we've been saying from the get-go is that, that you don't want to
01:09:45be the last man standing in this deal.
01:09:46And I think of the 27 people who are indicted, um, is really now Jason is the
01:09:51last big wig, um, that that's still on the docket and I think he played this
01:09:57hand incorrectly, um, and, and Bill, that, that being said, I think at this
01:10:01point, if he goes to the government and says, you know, it falls on his, on his
01:10:06sword and says, you know, this is what I did.
01:10:08And here he's got nobody else to kind of rat out.
01:10:11He's got nobody else to turn over at this point.
01:10:13So he almost has to fight it because it's, you know, one shot is better than no shot.
01:10:18And, but I think he, he mismanaged this.
01:10:21And again, we're not attorneys, but we've been talking about this from the
01:10:24moment that he was indicted, which is the odds are stacked way against you.
01:10:28If, if, if there's an FBI indictment, number one, um, and, and number two, you
01:10:32don't want to be the last guy standing because there's not going to be a chair
01:10:34for you at the end and that's, I think exactly where he is right now.
01:10:37Yeah.
01:10:37I mean, the only explanation I can think of is hubris and thinking I got
01:10:41away with this stuff all this time.
01:10:43I can still beat it, but Jorge Navarro got rid of that hubris ASAP once he saw
01:10:47that plea deal and ended up crying in court and throwing his himself at the
01:10:51mercy of the judge, that's the only thing I can think of is that Jason service,
01:10:55you know, has been getting away with this stuff, allegedly, I guess I still
01:10:58have to say all this time and he thinks that that's going to be able to continue
01:11:02just from his, his brilliance or his shiftiness or what do you guys think
01:11:07you'd be really in his heart of hearts?
01:11:09He really thinks he's innocent.
01:11:10And that's why he's funny.
01:11:11I mean, how could he know?
01:11:13You know, allegedly dead.
01:11:15Yeah.
01:11:15I mean, they didn't make up those wire taps.
01:11:17Uh, I mean, you know, they didn't, it's, that's the thing about it.
01:11:21You know, there's no, what is his defense?
01:11:23I was wondering, you know, like Corey Navarro's defense, some of these guys
01:11:26defense is like, I did bad things, but the other guys are even worse kind of
01:11:30like, you know, nobody who's come before the court has even presented any sort of
01:11:34defense or credible defense or anything that you could say, you know, Hey, maybe,
01:11:41maybe they've got a point or they have no defense because it's an open and shut case.
01:11:45They have irrefutable evidence that these guys did this thing.
01:11:47And, you know, again, I'm, I'm what on earth is his lawyer going to get up and
01:11:52tell the jury to say, this is the reason why Jason service should be found innocent.
01:11:56I mean, I couldn't even, I couldn't even begin to imagine what
01:12:00that line of defense is going to be.
01:12:03Unless, unless they come in and say, you know, what we were using
01:12:06wasn't performance enhancing.
01:12:08So our guy got duped also, even he paid, basically paid for snake oil and for,
01:12:13for expensive, you know, for the horses to pee out expensive urine.
01:12:16It didn't help the horses.
01:12:17So therefore he shouldn't be in this branding should be kind of thrown out.
01:12:21I think that that's not even plausible, but I'm just saying like that, is that a,
01:12:25is that a defense?
01:12:25And maybe that's why you're right.
01:12:28But it doesn't matter.
01:12:30I mean, there's nothing that says like, okay, you know, you bought the stuff and
01:12:34you didn't really know how bad it doesn't matter.
01:12:36Yeah.
01:12:38I mean, that's their hail Mary.
01:12:40I don't know.
01:12:41It is.
01:12:41It really, it really is.
01:12:42They're there.
01:12:43I mean, we've been talking about this ad nauseum.
01:12:46I just don't, I can't imagine that he's got any kind of, of a defense, but it's
01:12:50going to have to be something really outrageously creative because they haven't
01:12:54done the rights.
01:12:55I mean, the, the 48% win percentage off the claim would seem to suggest that he's
01:13:00had, he had the good stuff.
01:13:01So that was good placement.
01:13:03That was good placement.
01:13:04West point had a busy Derby weekend with several runners at Churchill downs.
01:13:08They're always, always in action on these big racing days.
01:13:11Um, we have some pictures that we'll show their visits to the backside and in the
01:13:15paddock looks like everyone had a great time.
01:13:17West point has two entries to watch on Thursday, a long, long time ago.
01:13:21We'll be running at Belmont park for Steve Asmussen and brigadier general.
01:13:25We'll be at Churchill with Dow Stewart's a good luck to all the partners and hope
01:13:28you guys really enjoyed Derby weekend.
01:13:30And I know, I know you're all looking forward to flight line coming back in the
01:13:34Met mile.
01:13:34We're counting down the days.
01:13:35We'll be right back after this message from West point thoroughbreds.
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01:13:58racing West point thoroughbreds, the gold standard and racing partnerships.
01:14:05Visit westpointtv.com being a small family business.
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01:14:12We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:14:14We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:14:16We're always with your horse, every step of the way, when it comes to being at the
01:14:21sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse, just grabbing up down the
01:14:25road every day.
01:14:26There's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the
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01:14:32I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can.
01:14:35Cause we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
01:14:40The TDN writers room was brought to you by legacy bloodstock.
01:14:43If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business could benefit your
01:14:47program, give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:14:49We personally advise on each horse as if they were their own.
01:14:52Ocala stud sire Girvin had his first winner last week at Churchill Downs.
01:14:55Girvin was a legacy grad back in 2015 when he sold for $130,000 at the facing tip in
01:15:01October sale before going on to win several graded stakes, including the 2017 grade one
01:15:06Haskell stakes.
01:15:07And we're just around the corner from the yearling sale.
01:15:10So definitely hit up Tommy or Wendy.
01:15:11You've got a great clearance rate, small business operation, but they do a great job and
01:15:15they compete with the big consignments.
01:15:17So definitely hit up Tommy or Wendy as that yearling sale season approaches.
01:15:21So it's been a great episode.
01:15:22Great to talk about the Derby with you guys and great to tip the hat to Bill for an
01:15:26exciting, exciting win in the Derby contest.
01:15:29And of course, Remy has a little bit of a take on the on this year's Derby.
01:15:33And, you know, I think this is kind of what we all thought was even Hollywood would toss
01:15:37this story from rich strike.
01:15:39It's just a ridiculous, implausible story, considering all of the things that were against
01:15:44him and all of the background information on him.
01:15:46And the executive says, we'll pass.
01:15:49To be honest, your story is hard to believe, even for us are hard to argue with that.
01:15:54All right. So that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Writers Room,
01:15:57presented by Keeneland, home of the World's Yearling Sale.
01:15:59Make plans to attend the Keeneland September yearling sale beginning Monday, September
01:16:0312th. Learn more at the world's yearling sale dot com.
01:16:06I want to thank Bill Finley, diehard Pittsburgh Penguins fan, John Green, our Green
01:16:11Group guest of the week, Larry Colmus, our producer, Patty Wolf, our associate producer,
01:16:15Katie Petruniak, and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:16:20Thank you so much for watching.
01:16:21See you next week.