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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN.
00:00:34I also co-host the Down the Stretch Show on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:37Hey guys, good morning.
00:00:38I'm Randy Moss, NBC Sports, trusty sidekick Lucy in her usual position.
00:00:43Zoe Kampmann here with Fast Racing and XBTV.
00:00:46Doodle's still in bed.
00:00:47It's 6 a.m. West Coast time.
00:00:50Good morning guys.
00:00:51Got a nice cup of tea here and I'm ready to get going.
00:00:54Yeah, thank you for getting up early for us today, Zoe.
00:00:57As we tape this on a Tuesday morning.
00:01:01And want to remind you that the Writer's Room is brought to you each week by Keeneland.
00:01:05And speaking of Keeneland, let's start off with the story of the sales of this week.
00:01:10And Zoe, we're going to lean a lot on you because this is not really a field of expertise
00:01:13for me and Randy, but it's a familiar story.
00:01:16But I think the story is even bigger this year of the top end selling great.
00:01:24And then when you get outside the top end, when you get outside the Book One type horses,
00:01:29there's been problems.
00:01:30So the good news for Keeneland, they saw a successful Book One last Wednesday with a
00:01:3430% increase in median from Book One last year and a slight 8% decrease in average compared
00:01:40to last year.
00:01:41So Book One went fine.
00:01:43Since then, numbers were down later in the week, a 15.1% decrease in average and 20%
00:01:49drop in median in Book Two.
00:01:51Cumulatively through Sunday, we're at a 16.54% decrease in average overall.
00:01:58We're seeing, again, a polarization of the market, but this is probably the strongest
00:02:03example yet of that trend.
00:02:06And we're getting high demand for quality offerings, but horses that might be lacking
00:02:09in pedigree, physical or other elements will often be offered at discounted rates for the
00:02:14buyers.
00:02:15Zoe, what does it all mean?
00:02:17I think you pretty much summed it up right there, Bill.
00:02:20There's polarization in the market.
00:02:23What we've seen over the past couple of years is people keeping their better stock.
00:02:29So before we'd see these pin hookers come in and buy a weaning for 100,000, they'd sell
00:02:34it for 500.
00:02:35Now, the people that own the weanings are keeping those justifies, they're keeping the
00:02:40good ones for September.
00:02:42They're not going to say, oh, here's Peter O'Callaghan, sorry, Pete, here he comes, I'm
00:02:48going to sell him my really nice baby for 150, for 250, so he can make a million dollars
00:02:55next year.
00:02:56It's just not happening.
00:02:57People are culling their lesser stock, especially with the foals, and they're going to keep
00:03:02them for themselves, maybe to race or maybe to see if they can have that kind of return
00:03:07on investment for next year.
00:03:10So that's the simple facts of the matter.
00:03:12It is a buyer's market.
00:03:14If I was there shopping, Marette's there shopping, she's bought a couple of lovely mares, and
00:03:19she's absolutely delighted.
00:03:21This is a time where if you've got a little bit of money in your pocket, you can sift
00:03:25through these horses and you can buy the good ones.
00:03:28The ones that are making the money, people are just zoning in on, are they really that
00:03:32good?
00:03:33I'm not quite sure they are, but they're the same horses that tick all the boxes, as everyone
00:03:38likes to say, that people are honing in on, and those ones are going to make money that
00:03:43you take them up there.
00:03:44The rest of them, people are going to cull them, they're going to look through them,
00:03:48and they're going to maybe find some bargains, or maybe you're going to take them home.
00:03:52People are being much more selective in this day and age, and I think what you're going
00:03:56to see for next year's yearling market is that the trend is going to continue.
00:04:01The good ones that have been kept out of these sales are going to sell for a million dollars.
00:04:06I mean, if you take something up there that's worth $150,000, $200,000, you're probably
00:04:11going to make a lot more money than you are if you're going to take one that looks like
00:04:15a $20,000 horse.
00:04:17It's just the simple fact of the matter that I think people are tired of other people making
00:04:21money.
00:04:22And Zoe, if this continues, this trend continues, what does it all mean for horse racing and
00:04:28for the breeding market?
00:04:29I mean, the horses are still there.
00:04:31You're going to have a lot more homebreds, which is what we're going to have going forward,
00:04:36and the people with the money are still going to make money, and they're still going to
00:04:40be able to pinhook.
00:04:41Now, it's probably going to tipple over into the two-year-old market as well.
00:04:45And at some point it has to stop, but the interest rates are still high.
00:04:49People with a lot of money are still going to be able to make a lot of money.
00:04:52It's just affecting the middle market, which is basically the glue that keeps it all together.
00:04:58So while it is concerning, I think we're literally going to see a lot more homebreds coming out
00:05:04onto the racetrack, which in my mind is a good thing.
00:05:07The less these horses go through the sales, the less hard it is and the less people tinker
00:05:12with them.
00:05:13So I'm all for homebreds.
00:05:16Hopefully the breeding industry doesn't go down anymore as far as foals to ground, because
00:05:21I think we're just about the right level right now.
00:05:25And we'll just have to keep an eye on it moving forward.
00:05:27But yeah, polarization is the name of the game.
00:05:30So as far as the upper end showing a significant increase, our Green Group yesterday, the week
00:05:37this week is Jon Stewart.
00:05:38Can't wait to hear from him.
00:05:40He just took the Keeneland sales by storm.
00:05:42How much can the impact of that one guy have on the overall numbers for the upper end?
00:05:49Well, you saw how high the median was.
00:05:51Now he's probably done shopping because he's shopping at the upper end and those days have
00:05:55already gone.
00:05:56He doesn't want to have the horse he can afford.
00:05:59He wants the one he really wants.
00:06:00What did he say?
00:06:01He's not a bidder.
00:06:02He's a buyer.
00:06:03He doesn't want to bid on a horse.
00:06:10He wants to buy a horse.
00:06:12So he's likely done for the Keeneland sale he already spent at the top end, which is
00:06:16probably why the median was up for book one, partly thanks to Jon Stewart.
00:06:22But hey, listen, anytime someone wants to come into our industry and dump a whole bunch
00:06:27of money, what is wrong with that?
00:06:29What is someone with good thoughts towards the sport?
00:06:32I applaud him and I wish we had more billionaires like Jon Stewart in the sport to bid against.
00:06:38Maybe he could bid against another billionaire.
00:06:40We have plenty of them.
00:06:41Come on in, guys.
00:06:42Come on in.
00:06:43You're welcome.
00:06:44Yeah, you can never have too many billionaires now, can you?
00:06:48All right.
00:06:49So speaking of the Keeneland sale, we're going to turn the page and do a horses of racing
00:06:53age sale.
00:06:55And this is one of the most fascinating things that I don't recall ever seeing a Kentucky
00:06:59Derby winner being sold at auction like this.
00:07:03And of course, we're talking about Rick Strike.
00:07:06They tried to get him back to the races there, even with the trainer change, with bringing
00:07:09him over to Bill Mott.
00:07:11But the things that were bothering him were serious enough that Mott and owner Rick Dawson
00:07:17decided that he could not race anymore.
00:07:20So the only thing to do now is to try to prepare him for a stallion career.
00:07:25Rather than putting in a deal and finding a farm, they're going to put him in the sales
00:07:29ring and let the industry and let the bidders themselves decide where he goes.
00:07:36I guess there's two questions here.
00:07:38First of all, how much will he sell for and who will he sell for?
00:07:42And Zoe, this is more, again, a question for you because you're the expert.
00:07:47How much will he sell for?
00:07:49My answer would be not very much.
00:07:51And where will he go or who will buy him?
00:07:54My answer will be not anybody in Kentucky, maybe a foreign market, maybe a small regional
00:08:00market.
00:08:01I wish them well, but nothing about this horse says he's going to break the bank.
00:08:06I know it's a shame.
00:08:07You know, the owner's got plenty of money.
00:08:09I don't know why he wouldn't try and stand him somewhere like Pennsylvania.
00:08:12I mean, he's a beautiful looking horse.
00:08:14He won the Kentucky Derby.
00:08:16Yeah, he's by keen eyes.
00:08:18But you know, if you look past that pedigree, it does go back to some pretty nice horses.
00:08:25So I don't know where he's going to land.
00:08:27There are several other nice horses in there.
00:08:29You got first captain, the Dwyer winner.
00:08:32He's in there.
00:08:33King Fury's in there.
00:08:34Hey, you can buy Tariqo if you're a fan of Mike Tariqo.
00:08:37He's in there as well.
00:08:39So as far as Rich Strike, I don't know.
00:08:43I wouldn't.
00:08:44It depends what the reserve is, because I'm going to guess that that guy's got a pretty
00:08:48high reserve on him and maybe he wants to see where the market takes him.
00:08:52But I can't.
00:08:53I can't think of who wants him.
00:08:55I mean, he should stand in a regional market.
00:08:57Why couldn't he?
00:08:58He's a beautiful horse.
00:09:00I'll offer a guess.
00:09:02I hope Rich Strike likes Sushi.
00:09:04Ooh.
00:09:05Why Japan, Randy?
00:09:06Yeah.
00:09:07Why not?
00:09:08Why?
00:09:09Because they've got a past history of buying classic winning horses from the United States
00:09:17that aren't that highly thought of as stallion prospects in this country.
00:09:23It's happened a lot.
00:09:24If not classic winners, you know, horses that have performed well on the racetrack in the
00:09:30United States.
00:09:31And they brought them over there and they've done fairly well.
00:09:33I mean, most recently, mind your biscuits.
00:09:36All right.
00:09:38The over-under on what he sells for.
00:09:40I'll set it at $500,000.
00:09:42I'll go under.
00:09:44Really?
00:09:45Over for me?
00:09:47Yeah.
00:09:48Over.
00:09:49I'm going to say probably $1.2 million.
00:09:52Wow.
00:09:53That's exactly what I was going to say.
00:09:54$1.2 million.
00:09:55We're thinking a lot more.
00:09:56$1.2 million.
00:09:57Certainly.
00:09:58We're not quite on the same page there, but we shall see what happens.
00:10:00The other big story at the sales of Fasig-Tipton, their Night of the Stars, both Goodnight Olive
00:10:05and Nest were bought.
00:10:07Nest was bought by Mike Rapoli to buy out the partners.
00:10:11And Goodnight Olive was bought by our upcoming Green Group Guest of the Week, Jon Stewart.
00:10:16Both will be coming back to race next year.
00:10:19Terrific news to see two of the best fillies of their recent times coming back.
00:10:24And we really look forward to seeing them get back onto the track and maybe Goodnight
00:10:29Olive can win a third straight Breeders' Cup filly in May or sprint.
00:10:33Don't see why not.
00:10:34She left at the top of her game and just looking at her physically, she is absolutely gorgeous.
00:10:40I'm not so sure about Nest, to be perfectly honest, because she tailed off quite significantly,
00:10:45but certainly Goodnight Olive.
00:10:47Yes.
00:10:48We've mentioned Keeneland a lot already and the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by
00:10:52Keeneland.
00:10:54The Keeneland November Breeding Stocks Sale is going on now and will wrap up on Thursday.
00:10:59And after that, we mentioned Rich Strike and several others.
00:11:02The Horses of Racing Age Sale will see 300 horses go through the ring, including the
00:11:08Kentucky Derby winner Rich Strike, over $1.2 million, we're betting a Coke on that, as
00:11:14well as Grade 2 winning millionaire Smile Happy and oh, so much more.
00:11:18We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:11:26At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:11:33Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:11:40Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard, not for our sake, but for theirs, for the
00:11:49love of the horse for generations to come.
00:11:53The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm, the sponsor
00:11:58of our weekly Fastest Horse of the Week segment.
00:12:01This week's sire at Windstar that we're going to spotlight, my favorite three-year-old of
00:12:062023.
00:12:07You know who that is?
00:12:09Two fills.
00:12:10The runner-up in the Kentucky Derby, retired after another stakes win following the Kentucky
00:12:17Derby.
00:12:18He ran some of the highest buyers around two turns of any three-year-old this year.
00:12:23And his Kentucky Derby number itself, 105, was equal to or higher than every other Derby
00:12:29winner for the past 15 years.
00:12:32And don't forget, he did that while being in close proximity to a very fast early pace.
00:12:40He's a two-time stakes winner.
00:12:41Also, as a two-year-old, two fills is standing his first year at Windstar Farm in 2024 for
00:12:48a fee of $12,500.
00:12:51This week's sire of the week at Windstar, two fills.
00:12:54Now, the Fastest Horse of the Week from a buyer's speed figure perspective, trained
00:13:00by guess who, Rick Dutrow, it's Masterpiece, the winner of the Red Smith at Aqueduct on
00:13:08Saturday.
00:13:09Masterpiece recorded a buyer's speed figure in that race of 99.
00:13:14So Dutrow, not only with Y to Barrio and another stakes winner in the interim, now the Fastest
00:13:20Horse of the Week, Masterpiece also from the growing now, Rick Dutrow Farm.
00:13:35So this Sunday, I think all of us were glued to our televisions with 60 Minutes did a piece
00:13:40on horse racing.
00:13:42And it was not a pretty piece.
00:13:44It was really about all the problems that the sport is having right now, primarily with
00:13:48drugs and breakdowns.
00:13:51I thought for the most part, it was fair.
00:13:53One thing I think that they kind of went overboard that I didn't agree with is, I thought they
00:13:57kind of tried to say that the breakdowns and the doping were interrelated.
00:14:04Sometimes they may be, I suppose, but that's not the case.
00:14:07They're two very different issues.
00:14:09It's not like every horse that breaks down is because the trainer gave them some performance
00:14:15enhancing drugs.
00:14:17They did a good job presenting, I think, both sides of the issues.
00:14:21Several people from within the racing industry, including Lisa Lazarus, were allowed time
00:14:25to say, hey, look, you know, we have a problem here, but we're trying our best and we are
00:14:29making progress and we are going to fix this.
00:14:32But now, if we take a big step backward, here we go again to one of the most famous
00:14:40television shows there is with an audience of several million people.
00:14:43I believe it was about 12 million people watched this, were exposed to horse racing's problems.
00:14:50When you put them down on paper, it doesn't look good.
00:14:53It's not a good look.
00:14:57I wouldn't call it a hit job by any stretch of the imagination.
00:15:00I think it just told the story of what is going on in horse racing going back at least
00:15:06several years, at least since the indictments of service in Navarro in March 2020, maybe
00:15:11even before that with the Santa Anita breakdowns.
00:15:14And as we look in the mirror, it's not a good look.
00:15:20You know, I was struck watching the 60 Minutes show, especially in hindsight, by one thing,
00:15:30by a lot of things really, but one thing specifically, the lack in the thoroughbred
00:15:35racing industry of an effective PR spokesperson.
00:15:42Lisa Lazarus has done a really good job at Hisa.
00:15:45It's a continuing job.
00:15:47It's a thankless job.
00:15:49Lisa Lazarus is not intended to be, and I don't think sees herself necessarily as a
00:15:55mouthpiece, as a spokesperson for the thoroughbred industry.
00:16:00She's an administrator.
00:16:01She's in charge of taking care of Hisa and getting all the details right and making sure
00:16:09legally that all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed.
00:16:13She's not a PR type spokesperson.
00:16:17To me, that segment on 60 Minutes cried for somebody within the thoroughbred industry
00:16:26who could answer some of those very negative leading questions in a way like this.
00:16:33Just say, look, this is a wonderful sport.
00:16:37It's a traditional sport.
00:16:38It's part of Americana.
00:16:41Horses by and large get wonderful care, and they're loved by the people who have them.
00:16:46But yes, like most other professional sports, horse racing has problems, and it has problems
00:16:53that have not been adequately addressed over the decades by the states.
00:16:58It has problems that we're attempting to address right now.
00:17:01We're making headway.
00:17:02We're not there yet.
00:17:05It does have a dark side if we don't get these problems taken care of, and we're efforting
00:17:13tremendously to get this sport right back on the right track.
00:17:17There are a lot of great things about the sport.
00:17:19People who love the sport will attest to that, but yes, it has its needs that we're
00:17:28trying to address.
00:17:29I didn't really hear any of that, and I think it was an important omission from the industry
00:17:38perspective on that 60 Minutes telecast.
00:17:40Randy, for spokesperson, I vote for that, but you're right.
00:17:45We do need a better spokesperson, and Lisa Lazarus is doing an excellent job.
00:17:49How many jobs does she need?
00:17:51She shouldn't have to go in front of the camera every time somebody calls her, but she does
00:17:56because there's nobody else.
00:17:58Hire someone to do that.
00:17:59That's your job.
00:18:01Hire someone else.
00:18:02Hire an actor if you want to.
00:18:03That would be great.
00:18:04We need someone with a good voice that can really articulate what perhaps we can't get
00:18:09across.
00:18:11They could have mentioned the drop in fatalities.
00:18:15You never really want to say that 69 horses died last year, but 69 compared to 112 just
00:18:22in 2017 is a significant drop.
00:18:25Why not just mention that?
00:18:27Mention some good things about the sport.
00:18:29Joanne Hayden is a dear friend of mine.
00:18:32She runs Dark Hollow Farm along with her husband in Maryland and wrote a big, long page and
00:18:38is sending it to 60 Minutes.
00:18:40Hey, listen, we're in the Maryland horse industry.
00:18:42We put millions of dollars into paying taxes.
00:18:47The industry needs us.
00:18:48How about we put some of the good things in here?
00:18:52The facts are irrefutable.
00:18:53Nobody can deny what has happened.
00:18:55We're glad those people are behind bars, but put some good in there to the 12 million people
00:19:01that watch 60 Minutes.
00:19:03Don't make them condemn them because if I'm showing it to my boyfriend who can't spell
00:19:07horse, if he's watching that, he's going to say, what the hell are you doing in horse
00:19:12racing?
00:19:13That's just terrible because he doesn't know.
00:19:16He doesn't know the good things about the sport.
00:19:19He doesn't know the pluses.
00:19:20All he knows is the minuses.
00:19:22We need more people on the plus end.
00:19:25One thing I took umbrage with and I watched it and I actually heard Jay Priven mention
00:19:30it as well was the quote from Stuart Janney.
00:19:34And I know Stuart and he's a good guy and he's trying to take the sport by the reins
00:19:39and just shake it up.
00:19:41He said, the important people that I think are cheating in the sport, that's who we put
00:19:46five stones onto.
00:19:48The important people that I think are cheating in the sport.
00:19:52That's fine.
00:19:53So who did you investigate of the important people that proved to be not cheaters?
00:20:00Why can't we have those names out there?
00:20:02Surely they investigated more people than just Navarro and service.
00:20:05What about the rest?
00:20:07Who else did they investigate?
00:20:08I mean, if anyone who thinks that Bob Baffert wasn't a target is probably in denial.
00:20:15So he wasn't in there.
00:20:17So he's clean, right?
00:20:18So why aren't we mentioning that?
00:20:20Why can't we mention the people that already jumped the hurdles and passed the test?
00:20:24Let's have some good stuff in here.
00:20:26I mean, that's the only thing that I took a little bit of umbrage from.
00:20:29The facts are irrefutable.
00:20:32We can deny that.
00:20:33But it's 60 minutes.
00:20:34Yeah.
00:20:35And what you're talking about, Zoe, I mean, you don't have to be stretching the truth
00:20:39in terms of positivity to make some of those points, because the fatalities have significantly
00:20:45gone down.
00:20:46And there has been progress made on a lot of different fronts, including medication
00:20:50in the sport.
00:20:51Is it where we want it to be?
00:20:53Is it where it needs to be?
00:20:55No.
00:20:56But at least the needle is moving in the right direction, and it wouldn't be, you know, being
00:21:00falsely positive to make some of those points.
00:21:04Randy, overall, what does a segment like this do to horse racing's image?
00:21:11I mean, it's already been bloodied and sullied so much as it is.
00:21:16You know, and then here you have a huge media outlet picking up on something.
00:21:22And that's the thing.
00:21:23I don't think they came up with anything new.
00:21:26I was a little bit disappointed.
00:21:28They just rehashed everything that has happened so far.
00:21:31But again, we talked about that.
00:21:32How many of these attacks can horse racing sustain and hope at the end of the day, you
00:21:39know, still be standing upright?
00:21:42You know, there was nothing new.
00:21:45And horse racing has taken so many punches to the solar plexus in the last year with
00:21:50all the horse deaths in Kentucky and then the horse deaths at Saratoga, etc.
00:21:57I'm not sure this has any, you know, great negative effect.
00:22:03It certainly doesn't have a positive effect.
00:22:05What I'm curious about, I would like to know the genesis of this particular story.
00:22:13I was wondering that too, yeah.
00:22:15Yeah, I mean, this is not something that I would think that a 60 Minutes producer is
00:22:21sitting around saying, OK, there's nothing new here.
00:22:26But let's make a 60 Minutes story out of this.
00:22:30You know, maybe that'll come out at some point, exactly who called their attention to this
00:22:35and why this ended up on 60 Minutes as it did.
00:22:41But do I think it did a tremendous amount of damage to the sport that hadn't already
00:22:46occurred?
00:22:47No, because I don't think there was anything really new.
00:22:49And if anything, if you want to, you know, try to spin something positive out of it,
00:22:54you've got two people sitting in prison as a result of an FBI investigation.
00:22:59So in terms of cleaning up the sport, progress is being made.
00:23:04The TD and Writer's Room is brought to you by the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders
00:23:09Association.
00:23:10Pennsylvania breds continued to win around the country last week.
00:23:13This time, Crosby Beach held on late to win the final race of the Santa Anita Autumn Meet.
00:23:19Pennsylvania bred Crosby Beach, bred by Kathy Mabee and Gary Gimo.
00:23:26Meanwhile, the last leg of that $1 million two-year-old PA Sired PA Bred Stallion Series
00:23:32set for December 27th to $200,000 races at a mile and 70 yards.
00:23:37Again, check the PABred.com website to make sure your two-year-old is nominated.
00:23:43Any questions, email info at PABred.com.
00:23:50PA bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:23:54The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:24:01Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:24:05Caravelle in the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint.
00:24:09Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state-bred program in the country, bar none.
00:24:14The best breeders awards and stallion awards in the country.
00:24:18The TD and Writer's Room brought to you by the Green Group, a tax consulting and advisory
00:24:23firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry and especially focusing on saving you money
00:24:29on your taxes.
00:24:32And we welcome in now the Green Group guest of the week, and it's Jon Stewart.
00:24:36And if you haven't been paying attention to what this gentleman has been doing at the
00:24:39sales of late, you just haven't been paying attention, period.
00:24:43This is what I can tell you about Jon Stewart.
00:24:45He dropped out of college at age 19 to work at Toyota as an hourly line worker, worked
00:24:51his way up through business and was the founder and managing partner of Middle Ground Capital,
00:24:55a private equity firm.
00:24:57And then lo and behold, at September Keeneland, he shows up and spends an awful lot of money,
00:25:04buys 13 yearlings for $8.425 million, then returns for Fasig-Tipton November and Keeneland
00:25:10November, buys 11 more mayors and yearlings for $17.35 million.
00:25:17So Jon, that's part of your story.
00:25:19The story that we don't know is why and when did you decide to not only get involved in
00:25:24horse racing, but to jump right into the deep end?
00:25:27Well, you know, if you get to know me, you'll find out that I don't do anything halfway.
00:25:33And so, you know, I bought my first horse last year and I went through a divorce and
00:25:38while I was going through my, when I was married, my wife never wanted me to get into
00:25:41the horse racing.
00:25:42I always had a passion for it and went to the races and enjoyed it.
00:25:46And then I got divorced.
00:25:47So I was like, okay, I'll buy a racehorse.
00:25:49And so I bought a racehorse last year.
00:25:52And as I started, you know, learning more about the industry.
00:25:55So I tend to, you know, just different things that I get into.
00:25:59I want to research everything.
00:26:00I want to know everything.
00:26:01I want to know the history.
00:26:02I want to know so much about it.
00:26:04And I've always respected the industry and how important it is to the Kentucky community
00:26:10and to the economy of the state and to the, especially to the Lexington area.
00:26:15And you know, as sometimes, you know, as I've been able to get successful in my career with
00:26:21my business, you know, it forges you the opportunity to get involved in things that you're passionate
00:26:28about and try to, you know, make an impact for people other than yourself.
00:26:32And so, you know, horse racing is one of the areas that I'm passionate about.
00:26:37I understand the importance it has on the local economy.
00:26:41I think it's become, you know, less relevant today than it was maybe 30 years ago in our
00:26:47area.
00:26:48And, you know, even like I think Ocala, Florida would challenge us for horse capital, you
00:26:52know, of at least North America, you know, and we would say horse capital of the world.
00:26:56But now when you look at what's going on all over the world, there would be people that
00:26:59probably would challenge us in that too.
00:27:02And I think it's important, you know, to, I felt like it was important to get involved
00:27:07and get involved in a big way so that I could help, you know, change that narrative for
00:27:13the state and for the local area.
00:27:17So John, you went to the University of Kentucky, you wanted to get in the horse business, but
00:27:21your ex-wife didn't really want you to.
00:27:24How did this kind of passion for horse racing, you use the word passion.
00:27:29How did it originate?
00:27:30Well, so I didn't go to the University of Kentucky, I actually, so I went to Campbellsville
00:27:35University, which is a small school in Campbellsville, Kentucky, played football and baseball there.
00:27:39Dropped out my freshman year because Toyota was building their largest facility in the
00:27:43world in Georgetown.
00:27:45And a bunch of guys on the football team were like, hey, let's go apply for this place.
00:27:49And I was the only person that ended up getting hired and dropped out.
00:27:51My parents weren't very happy about me dropping out of school.
00:27:54And then, you know, I ended up getting my degree while I was working at Toyota.
00:28:00And then, you know, the rest is kind of history on my business side.
00:28:04But you know, the passion's always been there.
00:28:07You know, I've always enjoyed everything around the industry and the excitement.
00:28:13You know, the awesomeness of the animals and, you know, their ability to, you know, train
00:28:20and achieve.
00:28:21You know, you get to know the animals.
00:28:23They want to race, you know, they like, you know, when they get ready in the morning,
00:28:28they're ready to go and they want to go work and they enjoy it.
00:28:31And even when a horse, you know, retires, you know, it needs to work, you know, it needs
00:28:36something to do because they're very intelligent animals.
00:28:40And so, you know, I can relate to all of that.
00:28:42You know, I similarly, I'm the kind of person I don't think I'll actually retire.
00:28:46I think I'll need to work.
00:28:47You know, you know, I started out as a line worker, as a blue collar worker.
00:28:51And, you know, I put that emphasis into everything.
00:28:54And so, you know, like I said, if I decide to do something, I'm not going to do anything,
00:29:00you know, halfway.
00:29:01I'm never the type of person that was just going to own shares of horses or, you know,
00:29:04and just kind of like piddle around with it and let someone else, you know, do all the
00:29:08work.
00:29:09And so once I, you know, over the last year, I've been doing a lot of research.
00:29:12And to be fair, you know, at Keeneland, the team didn't have the intention to jump in
00:29:17as deeply as I did, you know, and good thing they were prepared.
00:29:23You know, Gavin and Chelsea had gone out and reviewed, I think, 160 horses, you know, with
00:29:28the idea that we were going to purchase two.
00:29:31And then, you know, I, you know, I decided to accelerate that.
00:29:36And I told them before, you know, that, you know, that, you know, anything I do, I'm going
00:29:42to do all the way.
00:29:44And, you know, as I started really understanding like what, you know, for my goals, you know,
00:29:48to start a breeding and a racing operation, you need numbers.
00:29:52And you know, you know, you have to be lucky at the end of the day to win these big races
00:29:56like all the horses that are in the Kentucky Derby that are all, you know, competitive
00:30:00horses and have had accomplished, you know, records in their own right.
00:30:04But you need luck, you know, at the end of the day in order to be able to do that.
00:30:07So you can't rely solely on just like buying the best.
00:30:10You also have to have numbers because, you know, things happen, you know, there are injuries,
00:30:15you know, just like any sport.
00:30:16And so I decided that, you know, I needed more bullets in the chamber.
00:30:20And you know, everybody was advising me to stick with, you know, buying fillies and mares,
00:30:24you know, from the moneymaking angle of the business.
00:30:27But you know, if you're going to have a racing program, you have to have colts, you know.
00:30:31And so that's where we really came out in a big way at Keeneland was, you know, we bought
00:30:35a lot of colts because, you know, I wanted to start getting the pipeline full of horses
00:30:41for racing.
00:30:42Well, good morning, John.
00:30:44I'm so sorry I'm late.
00:30:46I am obviously not very smart and got 830 as not 530 in the morning out here in Southern
00:30:52California.
00:30:53So it's lovely to see you.
00:30:55You're a lovely face to look up to in the morning.
00:30:58And I'm just really intrigued about everything.
00:31:01I think I got in kind of the gist of it.
00:31:04I have one question.
00:31:06Who's Gavin O'Connor and Chelsea?
00:31:08Because it just seems like everyone all jumped in at the same moment and just blew Keeneland
00:31:13up because I was at Keeneland and we were like, who's Jon Stewart?
00:31:18Oh, my God.
00:31:19Who is this guy, Jon Stewart?
00:31:20He's just buying everything.
00:31:22So how did you guys all connect?
00:31:24Yeah.
00:31:25So Gavin, I met a few years ago.
00:31:29We actually used to date somebody that worked at my firm.
00:31:32And so I got to know him.
00:31:35He's a third generation horseman.
00:31:38He's been in the industry from a young age.
00:31:42Two of his uncles are really well-established bloodstock agents.
00:31:49His father, his grandfather was a really prestigious reporter in Ireland that wrote a kind of daily
00:31:59piece about the industry.
00:32:00And so he's been around the industry his whole life and was literally, he's the guy that
00:32:09helps the horses get together at Coolmore.
00:32:14I don't know what the technical term for penis inserter is in the horse industry, but that's
00:32:20what he did.
00:32:21And so this is a guy that literally started his career as a stable boy and starts working
00:32:31his way through the industry, literally taking any job just so he could be around the horses
00:32:40because he has that much love for the horses.
00:32:43And he's done a couple of pin hooking and some things like that that everybody does
00:32:46when they start out.
00:32:48And he's had some success with that.
00:32:49He bought my horse last year.
00:32:52And another big reason I'm doing this is I really believe in him and the work ethic that
00:32:57he has and the opportunity to do something to give somebody an opportunity is something
00:33:05that gives me a lot of joy.
00:33:08And I think he's deserving of the opportunity.
00:33:11Like I said, he went out and reviewed 160 horses at Keeneland thinking I was going to
00:33:16buy maybe two.
00:33:18And then as we started buying horses at Keeneland, he's the one on me going pumping the brakes
00:33:23going, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:33:25And he's getting a commission on everything that I buy.
00:33:27So he's just a wonderful horseman.
00:33:32And this is a great opportunity for him.
00:33:35I hope he gets more clients out of this.
00:33:39But he's my bloodstock agent.
00:33:41He's new to be announced first on here.
00:33:44He's going to be the general manager of our new farm that we're purchasing and is going
00:33:48to be running that operation.
00:33:50We've got some senior level advisors that are going to, of course, be advising us.
00:33:55We've hired a farm manager for the farm as well.
00:33:59And so he's going to be a big part of the operation on a go forward basis.
00:34:04And I really trust his instincts on these horses.
00:34:08And I think if you look at the quality of the purchases that we've made, those horses
00:34:12absent the one full brother to practical joke that I kind of went on my own and bought,
00:34:19he's picked every one of those horses, you know, and went through him and Chelsea both.
00:34:23And so Chelsea's my girlfriend.
00:34:26And so, you know, post-divorce, I met Chelsea.
00:34:29She rides Saddlebred horses and has been around the horse industry.
00:34:34She used to work for Gainesway.
00:34:35So she also knows Thoroughbred's bloodline specifically.
00:34:38She's very well versed in the bloodlines of the horses.
00:34:42And so her and Gavin work together to pick the horses and go through and kind of vet them.
00:34:48And then I'll come out and review them.
00:34:49And then, you know, ultimately, you know, it's my decision on, you know, which ones we're purchasing and how many we're purchasing.
00:34:55But that's how we're kind of handling that part of the business.
00:34:59John, you are involved right now in buying just about everything there is to buy.
00:35:04Weanlings, broodmares, yearlings, again, weanlings, everything there is.
00:35:12And you're also, as you mentioned, buying a farm.
00:35:14So when you take a look at that, where is this all going?
00:35:19What is going to be the scope of your operation?
00:35:21Where is this going to be 10 years from now?
00:35:24Yeah, so I mean, what I'm trying to do, of course, I've got a lot of ground to make up.
00:35:29And, you know, as someone that's going to jump right in,
00:35:32you can't just buy a bunch of yearlings and just kind of wait to see them kind of like, you know, mature.
00:35:38You have to fill in the gaps.
00:35:40And so we're buying some horses, you know, that are racing.
00:35:44And so we've, you know, we bought Goodnight Olive and she's going to continue to race next year.
00:35:48Probably the best sprinting horse that we've seen in, you know, a few decades in the U.S.
00:35:53And we just bought another Justify Philly Celtic Charm, who runs on the 26th at Churchill Downs.
00:36:02Won her maiden at Keeneland.
00:36:04Bought her from Mike Ryan.
00:36:06And so we're starting to buy some, you know, horses that will be running as well.
00:36:10You know, so we can, you know, that's the enjoyable part of the sport, of course,
00:36:13is the racing part of it and want to have racers.
00:36:17And then trying to fill in, you know, with weanlings, broodmares.
00:36:22And, you know, so we want to have a whole breeding operation.
00:36:25You know, we're not going to be doing training on the farm.
00:36:28You know, it's going to be more breeding.
00:36:30We will have stallions on the farm at some point.
00:36:32You know, Gavin's trying to rein me in, you know, from going toe to toe with some of the big guys
00:36:36on purchasing like the next big stallion and telling me to be patient.
00:36:41And so I may or may not listen to him.
00:36:43But, you know, what I'm what I want to do is, you know, when you look at these bloodlines
00:36:49these days, it's it's really challenging when you go and you see so many horses being bred
00:36:57every year to these stallions.
00:36:59And I just don't think there's the quality of mares that should be out there breeding
00:37:05to these quality stallions at 200 plus covers a year, not even counting if they go to South
00:37:12America and cover horses there.
00:37:14And I think it's dilutive.
00:37:15So you take something that's real high quality.
00:37:18And when you overproduce it, you create a commodity.
00:37:21Right.
00:37:22And so, like, I think Into Mischief had, you know, 140 colts for sale at Keeneland
00:37:28yearling auction.
00:37:30You know, what if there were only 40 available?
00:37:33Like, what would what would have they demanded from a value and a price perspective?
00:37:37And so I think there's, you know, if you go back 30 years in the industry and look at
00:37:42where people were breeding the horses for racing and not turning into like a mass market
00:37:48breeding operation.
00:37:49And look, I don't think there's anything wrong with some of the larger farms.
00:37:53I understand, you know, there's an economic side of this.
00:37:56They found a way to be profitable, which is very good for them and for the industry.
00:38:00And I'm not trying to change that.
00:38:04I mean, that's not going to happen.
00:38:06But when you look at the bloodlines, I would like to see the bloodlines being deeper.
00:38:11I would like to see more quality horses at every level when you go to purchase those
00:38:15horses.
00:38:16And I think one of the ways to achieve that is to control that breeding operation, control
00:38:23who's breeding, have quality stallions and control the covers, control who the breeding
00:38:27to at a much tighter extent.
00:38:30I think it increases the value of the horses.
00:38:34And being from Kentucky, you know, as I mentioned, I think that we're still very relevant in
00:38:39the industry, but we're, you know, I think arguably less relevant than we were 30 years
00:38:44ago, 50 years ago, 75 years ago.
00:38:47And, you know, I want to maintain that relevance.
00:38:49I think the bloodlines, I think in the industry, especially for the Kentucky horsemen, we need
00:38:55to think about those as our intellectual property.
00:38:58And you just don't let that intellectual property go to the highest bidder, you know,
00:39:03wherever it goes and they take that bloodline away.
00:39:06You know, it was a lot of my motivation for purchasing Goodnight Olive, you know, when
00:39:11I saw, you know, that the Japanese had, you know, kind of honed in and were looking to
00:39:16take her overseas.
00:39:17And I wasn't going to have the best sprint horse, you know, that we've seen, at least
00:39:21in the last 10 years, you know, leave the country and go over there.
00:39:26And so, you know, I wanted to make sure that was the type of quality.
00:39:29So it was a little bit of me making a statement that, you know, there's almost no cost to
00:39:35keeping these horses over here.
00:39:37And, you know, I have the means and the ability to do that.
00:39:41Ultimately, I think it makes a profitable operation.
00:39:44You know, as you mentioned, you know, where does this 10 years from now, I think you're
00:39:48going to see, you know, hopefully our farm, you'll see the quality of horses that are
00:39:53coming out of that farm will be something that people want to have the opportunity to
00:39:58purchase.
00:39:59And so, you know, kind of, you know, bringing that scarcity of supply back into demand and,
00:40:05you know, concentrating the bloodlines and trying to make better quality horses.
00:40:13I got a couple of questions, John.
00:40:14First of all, all of us, you know, we've been around a while, and everybody in racing has
00:40:20bemoaned the what we would consider the early retirement of racehorses that are at the top
00:40:25of their game, like good.
00:40:27What what's the immediate plan for Good Night Olive?
00:40:30Does she stay with Chad?
00:40:33Yeah, she left.
00:40:33She left the day after we bought her.
00:40:35She's down with Chad, and she's going to take some time off.
00:40:40She's going to, you know, get some paddock time and, you know, get some downtime.
00:40:45You know, with talking with Chad, we don't think that there's any quality races of her
00:40:49caliber that are, you know, on the calendar in the near term.
00:40:52So we're not going to just race her to race her.
00:40:55We're going to wait probably till Keeneland, you know, and we'll probably come out, you
00:41:01know, for the sprint there.
00:41:02And then we'll, you know, start her season there and look for her to make a chance to
00:41:10have a three-peat at the Breeders' Cup.
00:41:12And, you know, I think if you saw the way that she ran at the Breeders' Cup, I mean,
00:41:17she, again, to your point, I'm the same way.
00:41:20I think, you know, when you look back, there were horses that were running at, you know,
00:41:24seven, eight, nine, you know, even, you know, 10 years old, you know, decades ago.
00:41:29And now, as soon as they get to like a point where people think there's a lot of value
00:41:33in them, we're retiring them, and then they move into breeding.
00:41:36Same thing on the stallion side.
00:41:38And so, you know, I think these horses have a lot more, you know, opportunity.
00:41:42Again, I think they want to.
00:41:44They like that competitive part of the business.
00:41:47They like the race.
00:41:48They like to win.
00:41:49They want to know what's happening.
00:41:51If you've been around the industry, you know, these horses and, you know, they're affected,
00:41:55you know, by the race, you know, mentally and physically, you know, impact it.
00:42:00And I agree with you.
00:42:01I think, you know, some of these horses can run, you know, longer.
00:42:05And when you're not focused on the breeding element to make all of your return on your
00:42:11horses, I think you're freed up to, you know, play that option value on the length of time
00:42:16those horses race out a little bit more.
00:42:18And I think it's good for the industry.
00:42:20And I think there's, you know, it's a coexisting model.
00:42:23You know, I'm not trying to advocate that everybody needs to do it the way that I do
00:42:27it.
00:42:28You know, I have an idea about doing it a little bit different and kind of going back
00:42:32kind of to an old school approach, not really inventing anything myself, but really looking
00:42:37to the past to guide, you know, our success.
00:42:41But I agree with you.
00:42:42I think some of these horses are retiring too early, especially, you know, on the stallion
00:42:47side and with the mayors as well.
00:42:51And, you know, I think people want to see these good horses continue to run and have
00:42:57the opportunity to enjoy them because there's, you know, Good Night with Olive has a pretty
00:43:00big fan base.
00:43:02And that's something else, you know, that I want to be more transparent from the very
00:43:07early stages.
00:43:09And so you're going to see we're bringing on a social media person that's going to be,
00:43:16you know, putting a lot of emphasis on just trying to show like the next stallion in the
00:43:22making.
00:43:23So you'll be able to follow all of our, you know, winglings and the colts and fillies
00:43:28that we purchased, you know, through their training, you know, onto the track, you know,
00:43:33all kind of the behind the scenes of what's going on and providing that access because
00:43:36I think the people want it and, you know, are very interested in getting, you know,
00:43:41that kind of access, you know, into, you know, how this is put together.
00:43:45So as we do this venture, I want to be very transparent with, you know, the other fans
00:43:51of horse racing so that they can kind of see, you know, how this is developing.
00:43:55And tell us about the farm.
00:43:56You've mentioned the farm purchase now several times.
00:43:59Yeah, so that's been really exciting.
00:44:01So we've been, I started looking at farms right after the Kingland sale and looked at
00:44:07several in the area.
00:44:08There are, you know, several for sale here in the Lexington area and decided on the Shadwell
00:44:15property out at Midway.
00:44:17And so, you know, we put an offer in.
00:44:19They've accepted that offer.
00:44:21It's a little over 800 acres.
00:44:24You know, it's the Shadwell stud operation, very well built and maintained, you know,
00:44:30give the hats off to the team at Shadwell.
00:44:32I mean, that property is immaculate.
00:44:35The buildings are, you know, in perfect shape.
00:44:39There's no way the replacement value on the improvements that they put on the site are,
00:44:44you know, just really impressive.
00:44:45And so, you know, super excited about that.
00:44:48We're finalizing our diligence period and we should close around December 18th, you
00:44:54know, on the property.
00:44:56And the property has four houses for the farm workers, but no main house.
00:45:01And I think having a main house on the property would make it more, you know, relevant.
00:45:06And so, you know, I intend to build a house and live there as well on the farm and, you
00:45:11know, kind of go back to the roots of old school owner operator, you know, horse farm,
00:45:15not, you know, even though I have an investment background, you know, I am from the local
00:45:20area.
00:45:20I, you know, I have homes, you know, all over the world.
00:45:23But having this be my home base in Lexington and making it, you know, significant from
00:45:29that standpoint, I think is good.
00:45:31It preserves the land.
00:45:33You know, that's important.
00:45:34You know, you guys have seen these horse farms that are getting purchased and they get
00:45:38broke up and they're making subdivisions and things.
00:45:40And so it preserves the property.
00:45:42That's one of the goals that I have.
00:45:44And then, you know, being able to do this in the local community, create jobs.
00:45:49And you'll see my approach on the farm is going to be different.
00:45:51You know, all of the senior management team on the farm is going to have equity interest
00:45:55in the farm.
00:45:57I don't know that there's other farms that actually do that.
00:46:00And so that's something as an investor, I do it with every company I own.
00:46:04All of the management team, they have equity interest, you know, that I fund on their behalf
00:46:11so that we're aligned and we have aligned interests.
00:46:13So like our farm manager, our general manager, those people, you know, our yearling manager,
00:46:17those people will have, you know, real equity interest in the farm.
00:46:21And, you know, if 20 years down the line I sell the farm, then they'll get, you know,
00:46:25paid just like I'll get paid.
00:46:26If the farm's successful, they'll be successful.
00:46:29And so, you know, we're going to be doing some different things.
00:46:33And I'm really excited about getting the farm up and running.
00:46:37It's going to take time.
00:46:39You know, with the mares we just purchased that are in foal, we're going to actually
00:46:44let them foal those horses at Margo farm.
00:46:48I don't, you know, I don't want to take any risk of bringing, you know, mares in foal
00:46:53onto the property and it being the first time, even though the staff's going to be very experienced.
00:46:57I want them to, you know, not have that kind of pressure of starting the farm.
00:47:02So, the horses that we have bought that are in foal will continue at Margo and they'll
00:47:07foal, you know, there.
00:47:09And then once at that time, once those horses are stabilized, then they'll move over to
00:47:15our farm.
00:47:15We'll probably move the weanlings over first that we already purchased.
00:47:20And then the mares, once they foal, we'll start bringing those over to the farm and
00:47:26start that way.
00:47:27You know, we have 148 stalls.
00:47:30So, we have, you know, lots of capacity.
00:47:32We'll end up taking boarders in the short term, probably more, you know, the more like
00:47:38friends that are in the industry that, you know, don't have their own farms will be
00:47:42probably where most of that will come from, you know, in getting things kind of up and
00:47:48running.
00:47:49But that's kind of the plan right now for the near term.
00:47:52Wow.
00:47:52Need anyone to mow your grass?
00:47:54Like, I'm in.
00:47:55I'm all in.
00:47:56I'll be on a plane tomorrow to Kentucky.
00:47:59Anytime you want to come cut grass.
00:48:00We've got lots of it.
00:48:03Well, what's the long term plan?
00:48:05Like where, if you could imagine, it seems like the funds are limitless.
00:48:09You're going to have a lot of friends in Kentucky now, but beating down your door.
00:48:13Where can you see yourself in just five years?
00:48:15Ideally, I want to make a significant impact on the racing side immediately.
00:48:20You know, so I want to win.
00:48:22I want to win the Kentucky Derby.
00:48:23I mean, I think everybody in racing wants to win that.
00:48:26And we've seen there's a lot of really talented owners out there and trainers and people in
00:48:32the industry that have never won it.
00:48:33So it's just it's elusive.
00:48:35You know, you can have the best horse and all of a sudden the day of the race, you got
00:48:38a scratch and you know, you can't the horse can't race and it's disappointing.
00:48:42You know, those things happen.
00:48:43We see those things happen every day in racing.
00:48:46So, you know, that's definitely like an ultimate goal being someone from Kentucky.
00:48:51And so on the racing side, it's to it's to compete.
00:48:54It's to compete in a way that everybody looks at us and says that we're good sportsmen.
00:48:59You know, the worst thing and I tell every one of the trainers that I'm talking to is
00:49:04that I have zero tolerance for any type of of of issues.
00:49:10So like the worst thing that could happen is winning a prestigious race and then to
00:49:14be disqualified after for some reason, whatever that is.
00:49:18And, you know, I'm not going to get into all the political stuff of whether you should
00:49:21or shouldn't do this, that or the other.
00:49:23But I don't want any of that.
00:49:25Like, you know, I've I've, you know, built up my reputation, you know, to the point that
00:49:30it is today without that kind of controversy around it.
00:49:33And I don't want anything controversial.
00:49:35I want the horse's well-being to be number one, you know, as we're training the horses
00:49:40like that, you know, I believe that the horse will tell us what it wants to do and when
00:49:44it's ready to do it.
00:49:45And so I want to, you know, give the trainers the full latitude.
00:49:49But the horse's well-being comes first and then respecting, you know, the rules of the
00:49:54sport are important.
00:49:57Those are important things.
00:49:58So, you know, at the end of the day, when I'm dead and gone and I people look back,
00:50:03I just hope people say that I had a positive impact on the sport.
00:50:06You know, it's you know, I think anybody would want the same thing, probably yourselves as
00:50:10well, is you just want people to think that you had a positive what you did positively
00:50:15contributed to a sport that we all love and to animals that we love.
00:50:19At the end of the day, that's what I really want.
00:50:22And that's that's my goal.
00:50:24And so, you know, but of course, I want to be competitive and I want to win.
00:50:29John, before we let you go, let's scoop the world here on our podcast.
00:50:32What is the name going to be the name of your farm and racing operation?
00:50:37So the farm is going to be Resolute Farm and we're going to run under Resolute Racing.
00:50:43And so the we chose Resolute because, you know, I wanted to like I was thinking about,
00:50:49you know, maybe bringing a farm back that had gone away and like, you know, you know,
00:50:53honoring the legacy.
00:50:55And and, you know, a lot of people are like, John, you need to put your own stamp on this.
00:50:59And, you know, if you've if you've been at any of the auctions and you see the way that I bid,
00:51:03you know, I'm a determined bidder, I think I've been called.
00:51:07And, you know, in anything I do in life, you know, I'm determined, you know, for it to work.
00:51:13Sometimes I believe you will things, you know, into existence, you make them happen.
00:51:18And so, you know, I'm very resolute on what we're doing here.
00:51:22You know, so there is a meaning behind it.
00:51:24It's just not some guy, you know, that, you know, just is jumping into the industry.
00:51:28This has been calculated and we've, you know, have a very specific strategy of what we're
00:51:33trying to do.
00:51:35And and so, you know, that's those are the names that we've come up with and what we're
00:51:41going to be establishing for for the farm and for the racing.
00:51:45John, I apologize in advance if this is a loaded question.
00:51:49No, it's OK.
00:51:51I know a lot of people in the industry that have been around a long time are probably
00:51:54thinking the same thing.
00:51:55And I know you've thought about this.
00:51:57We've all been around a while and we've seen very successful people in the business world
00:52:03and people with a lot of money come into the sport and make a big splash.
00:52:10Not as big as this.
00:52:11This is next level stuff.
00:52:14And then maybe 10, 15 years later, they look at the at the spreadsheet and they go, oh,
00:52:20no, this has been we've lost way too much money.
00:52:25Love the sport, but we can't keep doing this.
00:52:28What makes this venture different?
00:52:31Well, I'm going to make it profitable.
00:52:33It's going to be a profit.
00:52:34It's not a hobby like this isn't a hobby.
00:52:37You know, and, you know, look, on the day to day, I'm going to trust horsemen to run
00:52:40the business, you know, and let them make the decisions.
00:52:44You know, sometimes when you're an accomplished business person, you want to control every
00:52:47aspect of everything.
00:52:49And, you know, and, you know, for others, that may be, you know, the way that they go
00:52:54about it.
00:52:55I'm going to be very involved strategically in what we're doing.
00:52:59And I'm going to you know, I'm going to be involved, but I'm going to trust people like
00:53:03yourselves, people that have been in the industry, you know, people that know, you
00:53:07know, how things work to run my day to day operations of the business.
00:53:13I'm not going to be micromanaging my farm manager.
00:53:15I'm not going to be trying to tell him what to feed the horses.
00:53:19You know, I'm not going to be micromanaging the trainers and try to tell them this is
00:53:23a race I want to run and this is where I want to be.
00:53:26You know, I'm going to I'm going to I've always in my career, I've always surrounded myself
00:53:31with people that I think are very smart.
00:53:34And then I try to empower them to do the job that they've been hired to do.
00:53:39You don't build a company like I built at my firm, Middle Ground, you know, which has
00:53:43offices all over the world.
00:53:45And we own 180 factories all over the world.
00:53:48You know, I can't run 180 factories.
00:53:51And so that's not possible.
00:53:52So you have to surround yourself with good people.
00:53:55You have to trust them to make the decisions.
00:53:57You know, yes, I set the strategy.
00:53:59Yes, I'll set the framework.
00:54:01And yes, you'll see me out there bidding.
00:54:03I enjoy that.
00:54:04I have a car collection as well and like to do those things.
00:54:07But, you know, look, time will tell at the end of the day.
00:54:10You know, I think people may from a distance, they may make some comments.
00:54:18I've had people tell me you can't you can't bid like that.
00:54:21People are going to run you up or, you know, whatever, you know, in the auction arena.
00:54:25And I don't know.
00:54:26I mean, this last time I was I bought several horses with one bid.
00:54:31How are you getting bid up if you make one bid?
00:54:34So, you know, if people want to bid, if they want to run me up, you might run me up once.
00:54:40But, you know, if you want to make 50 extra thousand dollars
00:54:43and risk never selling me another horse again, then run me up.
00:54:47Right.
00:54:48But, you know, I'm paying fair prices for horses, you know, which is good for the industry.
00:54:53If someone wants to take advantage of it, they'll take advantage of it once.
00:54:56And, you know, I have a long memory.
00:54:58And so, you know, that may happen.
00:55:01But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm not paying any price for anything that I don't want out there.
00:55:06Very good.
00:55:06Well, John, thanks again so much for your time.
00:55:08It's always exciting to have a new face in the business,
00:55:11particularly somebody who is so ambitious and so bullish on the future of horse racing.
00:55:15Thanks for being our Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:55:17And best of luck with Resolute Racing and Resolute Farm.
00:55:21Thank you very much.
00:55:22He definitely doesn't need it.
00:55:24But as the Green Group Guest of the Week,
00:55:27John Stewart will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
00:55:31And who knows?
00:55:32John probably loves free stuff with the Green Group.
00:55:35For more information on how the Green Group can save you money on your taxes,
00:55:39visit www.greenco.com.
00:55:42Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:55:44The Green Group can help.
00:55:46There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen
00:55:49select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
00:55:52They save you money and share successful strategies.
00:55:56Over the past 40 years, the Green Group founder, Len Green,
00:55:59has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport.
00:56:04Like Eclipse Award-winning champions, Jaywalk and Wonderwheel.
00:56:07His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
00:56:13Len Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge,
00:56:16combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies,
00:56:19has produced positive results for his clientele
00:56:21and has made the Green Group the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred business.
00:56:27For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
00:56:29contact us at 732-634-5100
00:56:34or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:56:38The Green Group.
00:56:39Proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:56:43With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
00:56:48there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:56:54Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,
00:56:57as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:57:03Kentucky Breds.
00:57:05Breed them.
00:57:06Raise them.
00:57:07Race them.
00:57:09We all win.
00:57:12The TDM Writer's Room is brought to you by Kentucky Breds.
00:57:16Kentucky Breds once again demonstrated their brilliance
00:57:20against the world's best on Breeders' Cup Championship weekend,
00:57:24highlighted by an impressive victory, thanks Randy,
00:57:27from White Abario in the Classic.
00:57:30On Breeders' Cup Friday, it was fierceness, hard to justify, and just FYI,
00:57:36who stamped themselves as future stars with wins in the juvenile events.
00:57:41And on Saturday, Kentucky Breds scored repeat wins by
00:57:45Cody's Wish in the Dirt Mile,
00:57:47Goodnight Olive, we already mentioned her a lot, in the filly and mare sprint,
00:57:51as well as Elite Power in the sprint.
00:57:54The nine wins over two days gives Kentucky Breds 249
00:58:00Breeders' Cup victories, more than any state or any country.
00:58:04Kentucky Breds.
00:58:06Breed them.
00:58:07Buy them.
00:58:08Raise them.
00:58:09Another big story out of the week was the announcement that Del Mar will be
00:58:13getting the Breeders' Cup for 2025.
00:58:16Now what that means is that there'll be three straight years of Breeders' Cups
00:58:21in Southern California, starting with this year at Santa Anita,
00:58:24next year at Del Mar, and then two straight at Del Mar.
00:58:27So we're going to go away again from the East Coast, from the Midwest, et cetera.
00:58:34It was a little bit of a surprise, but then when you read between the lines,
00:58:38it looks like what happened was that the Breeders' Cup didn't really have much of a choice.
00:58:43Keeneland normally would be next in the rotation for 2025,
00:58:48but they have this big project they're undergoing where they're rebuilding the paddock,
00:58:53and apparently they told Breeders' Cup that the facility wouldn't be
00:58:56in the right shape to host the Breeders' Cup in 2025.
00:59:00I don't know if Santa Anita applied for it or not.
00:59:03Maybe Zoe knows.
00:59:04That hasn't come out.
00:59:05But if you take Santa Anita and Keeneland out of the mix,
00:59:09they're really left with just Del Mar.
00:59:11And one of the things that's happened now is there are,
00:59:15looks like until Belmont Park is rebuilt and ready to go,
00:59:19it's supposed to reopen in 2026,
00:59:21the Breeders' Cup is only looking at three facilities, Keeneland, Del Mar, and Santa Anita.
00:59:28So that raises a couple questions.
00:59:30First of all, Randy, how do you feel about having the Breeders' Cup
00:59:34three straight years in the West Coast, two straight years at Del Mar?
00:59:37And, you know, you might know more than the average bear
00:59:41about what's going on with Churchill Downs because of your connections with NBC,
00:59:45but apparently it looks like Churchill Downs is out of the equation.
00:59:49They haven't had the Breeders' Cup since 2018, and they're never mentioned anymore.
00:59:54So that's why it looks like we've gotten down to three tracks.
00:59:58I know Zoe's got an interesting theory about Churchill Downs
01:00:01as it regards to the Breeders' Cup, and I'll let her go there.
01:00:04I won't steal any of that thunder.
01:00:05But as far as Southern California, I mean, hey, I'm in.
01:00:11I mean, it's happened before.
01:00:13Santa Anita hosted multiple Breeders' Cups consecutively.
01:00:16Look, I mean, you know you're going to get great weather.
01:00:19Chances are you're going to get the nice firm turf that horse racing likes,
01:00:24that the Europeans actually prefer when they bring their horses over here.
01:00:29I think the Europeans have a better time coming to Southern California.
01:00:36And it also, from a TV perspective, it tends to work better
01:00:41because you're in prime time on some of the major TV markets in the East Coast.
01:00:47So there are a lot of benefits to having the Breeders' Cup in Southern California.
01:00:51And as far as I'm concerned, I mean, if you ask me,
01:00:55hey, you can have the Breeders' Cup anywhere you want this year, Randy.
01:00:57Where would it be?
01:00:58Del Mar.
01:01:00Del Mar for me.
01:01:01I mean, so Zoe, what about Churchill Downs and the Breeders' Cup
01:01:06looking at Churchill Downs as a potential site and not going to Churchill Downs?
01:01:11What are your theories on that?
01:01:12I think it's pretty obvious.
01:01:14I mean, when you look at the bigger scheme of things and the Churchill Downs,
01:01:17Bob Baffert saga that's been going on for the past three years,
01:01:21he's not welcome at Churchill.
01:01:22He's not welcome in 2024 for the Derby.
01:01:25Maybe they'll extend that through to the Breeders' Cup.
01:01:28So Breeders' Cup doesn't want to exclude anyone.
01:01:31And they shouldn't.
01:01:33They have nothing against Hall of Famer Bob Baffert.
01:01:37He had, while not winning, he had a pretty successful Breeders' Cup here this time around.
01:01:44So, I mean, if you're looking between the lines, that's exactly where you need to look.
01:01:49He's welcome in Southern California and pretty much everywhere else.
01:01:52I'm in agreement that the Breeders' Cup,
01:01:54I probably should be at Santa Anita every year as far as I'm concerned.
01:01:58It's a bigger facility.
01:02:00Del Mar's great, but you have a limited people that can get to Del Mar.
01:02:05What was it, 30,000 or something at Del Mar?
01:02:07It's not a very big facility whatsoever.
01:02:09And they handled it brilliantly.
01:02:12They really did.
01:02:13It was a comfortable Breeders' Cup at Del Mar.
01:02:16The Europeans, hey, if I'm living and working in England, like I did for many years,
01:02:22and someone said to me, hey, Breeders' Cup, do you want to go to New York,
01:02:26where are you going to freeze your ass off?
01:02:28Do you want to go to Monmouth, where it's going to be a monsoon?
01:02:31Or do you want to go to California?
01:02:34Well, hey, guess what?
01:02:35I want to go to California.
01:02:37We saw Rick Dutcher went to Disneyland after he took down the Classic.
01:02:41I think the host at the Breeders' Cup should pay,
01:02:45just like they do in the NBA or whatever sport it is, to send them to Disneyland.
01:02:49Send the winner of the Breeders' Cup Classic every year to Disneyland.
01:02:53That would be fantastic.
01:02:54And people would love it.
01:02:56So yes, I am delighted that it is in Southern California.
01:03:01And Del Mar did a great job.
01:03:03Nobody can complain.
01:03:05This year at the Breeders' Cup, Bill, I checked into my hotel,
01:03:09which was in Monrovia, just down the street from Santa Anita.
01:03:13And I checked in on Monday.
01:03:14And at my hotel, there were a lot of horsemen.
01:03:20There were a lot of good dolphin people there.
01:03:22There were a lot of people there.
01:03:23It was like the hotel of choice, not a luxury hotel,
01:03:27but the hotel of choice for a lot of the exercise riders
01:03:31and the grooms and the traveling lads and all that for the Europeans.
01:03:35So I check in on Monday.
01:03:36I'm at the front desk and I look over to my right.
01:03:38It's mid-afternoon on Monday.
01:03:41The pool is absolutely hot.
01:03:45In November, right?
01:03:46It was November 1st or maybe October 31st.
01:03:49I think it was Halloween.
01:03:50Which hotel?
01:03:51The Double Tree.
01:03:55Right by the highway on Huntington Drive, down the street from Santa Anita.
01:03:59There were probably 100 people at the swimming pool.
01:04:03And I went out there just out of curiosity.
01:04:05You know, 99.9% of them were European.
01:04:10Having a great time, having a great time at the pool.
01:04:13And I think it just sort of drove it home to me
01:04:16how much the Europeans enjoy coming to Southern California for a Breeders' Cup.
01:04:21If it was at Louisville, if it was at Lexington in late October, early November,
01:04:25I don't think there'd be anybody out at the pool, put it that way.
01:04:28There were a lot of red faces and an awful lot of sunburn.
01:04:31But I have one other thing that I'd like to add.
01:04:34So we were all there on Saturday, Randy, you were,
01:04:38and I was one of the people doing the mass exodus.
01:04:42I hate to say it, after the Classic.
01:04:44Like, I'm going to get out of here.
01:04:45I'm going to watch the final two at home.
01:04:46I live in Monrovia.
01:04:47It's just down the road.
01:04:49No problem.
01:04:50And I understand why they had to put the Classic earlier.
01:04:53So here's one thing, and maybe we could get this out.
01:04:57Why not make the Classic the first Breeders' Cup race?
01:05:00If it has to be held earlier because of TV rights and everything,
01:05:04make it race number one.
01:05:06You think people are going to spend a fortune on their tickets
01:05:08and leave after the first race?
01:05:10Make the Classic the first Breeders' Cup race on Breeders' Cup Saturday.
01:05:15People are going to stay throughout the day.
01:05:17If you make it two races before the end,
01:05:20there's going to be a mass exodus next year as well.
01:05:22Make it early.
01:05:24Make people get in, get them in the seats,
01:05:27and make the Classic an early race.
01:05:29All those people miss no balls.
01:05:32I know, right?
01:05:33What a great gal this is.
01:05:34Zoe, some good out-of-the-box thinking there.
01:05:35Randy, one more thing before we go here.
01:05:39And Zoe has a very interesting theory about Baffert and Churchill Downs.
01:05:43And if she's right, that would mean that Churchill Downs,
01:05:46who is now only suspended Baffert through 2024,
01:05:49would be contemplating extending the ban,
01:05:52which would be something that I think universally,
01:05:55all three of us would be very much against.
01:05:57And I think at this point, most people in horse racing
01:06:00would be very much against.
01:06:03I don't understand all the economics,
01:06:04but how the money is divided up between the Breeders' Cup
01:06:08and the host track,
01:06:09whereas apparently the money, the serious money,
01:06:13doesn't go to the host track, it goes to the Breeders' Cup.
01:06:15I've heard that Churchill Downs just can't come to a financial agreement with them
01:06:20and wants more money.
01:06:22Is that something that you've heard as well?
01:06:25I don't know, Bill, but it wouldn't surprise me.
01:06:27I know that the Breeders' Cup,
01:06:31when they have a host track that hosts the Breeders' Cup,
01:06:37gives up almost complete control to the Breeders' Cup.
01:06:41All the box seat revenue and the reserve seat revenue and all that,
01:06:46the Breeders' Cup just basically comes in and almost takes over.
01:06:51And I know that some tracks have had an issue with that
01:06:54and have decided that they might actually lose money
01:06:59hosting the Breeders' Cup
01:07:00as opposed to making any kind of a financial windfall.
01:07:03As far as the Baffert thing goes,
01:07:05the way I can, again, I don't know this,
01:07:08I don't have any inside information, I haven't asked about it,
01:07:10but the way I could see it happening is the Breeders' Cup,
01:07:14if they did go to Churchill Downs, they would say,
01:07:17okay, can you give us a guarantee that Bob Baffert will be able to race
01:07:23at the Breeders' Cup in November of 2024?
01:07:27And if you're Churchill Downs, and we know their take on Baffert right now,
01:07:31would you be willing to absolutely give the Breeders' Cup a guarantee
01:07:36in November of 2023 that you will definitely not have Baffert
01:07:41continuing on suspension?
01:07:43My guess would be probably they wouldn't go quite that far
01:07:46as to guarantee that.
01:07:48So I could see the conversation developing sort of in that regard.
01:07:52Yeah, I can definitely see it.
01:07:53And the money side as well, for sure,
01:07:57host tracks don't make any money.
01:07:59Host tracks don't make any money.
01:08:00There's really no upside other than the prestige
01:08:04of having the Breeders' Cup there.
01:08:05And we know that Churchill Downs doesn't,
01:08:08I mean, they like prestige, but they also like money
01:08:10and so do their stockholders.
01:08:11I wish I'd have bought some stock in Churchill.
01:08:14I'd be rich by now.
01:08:15I mean, they've done right by their stockholders.
01:08:17I will say that much.
01:08:18They've done very, very well by them.
01:08:21Yes, they have.
01:08:23The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:08:27The XBTV Workout of the Week features two
01:08:30Promises juveniles trained by the aforementioned Bob Baffert.
01:08:34They went four furlongs in 48 and four
01:08:36at Santa Anita on November the 12th.
01:08:39Pine Cone broke her maiden in fine fashion
01:08:41at La Salle by five lengths in September.
01:08:44And she worked with Showcard,
01:08:47a promising Juddmont homebred daughter of intermischief
01:08:50who has yet to make her first start.
01:08:52But she sure looks like she's ready for it.
01:08:55We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
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01:10:06Last week, West Point won four races,
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01:10:13the debuting two-year-old Cugino
01:10:16and the re-emerging three-year-old,
01:10:18Signatore.
01:10:19It's a hot streak with West Point plus McGehee.
01:10:22That's five wins and their last seven starts together.
01:10:25And this Saturday,
01:10:26they'll look to keep that streak going with Integration,
01:10:30the Virginia Derby winner who takes his two-for-two record
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01:10:42go to westpointtb, as in thoroughbred.
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01:10:58All right, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:11:00I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss, Zoe Cadman,
01:11:03our Green Group Guests of the Week, John Stewart,
01:11:05our co-producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca,
01:11:09our editors, Aaliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:11:11And she's back and her mascot, Lucy,
01:11:14right over Randy's right shoulder.
01:11:16Thanks everybody for tuning us in.
01:11:18We'll talk to you next week.
01:11:20I won't be here next week.
01:11:21I'm going to go cut grass for John Stewart.