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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDAd Writer's Room podcast, the Post Preakness
00:00:32edition.
00:00:33My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:34I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:37I also do a radio show on Sirius XM Radio every Saturday with Dave Johnson called Down
00:00:40the Stretch, 10 to 1 Eastern Time.
00:00:43Please tune us in.
00:00:44And I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports with lively Lucy back there in the background now, back
00:00:50home, back in home studio and ready to roll, Bill.
00:00:54Well, of course, let's get back to the Preakness, which was the big story last week.
00:01:00And look, on paper, it didn't look like it was going to be a particularly sizzling, sensational
00:01:04race.
00:01:05And it wasn't.
00:01:06To be fair, you know, the winner is a good horse, a national treasure.
00:01:10Mage ran well to finish third, blazing sevens for Chad Brown.
00:01:14He almost pulled it off again, would have been the third time he passed the derby with
00:01:18a horse and came in and won the Preakness.
00:01:21Very good stretch duel.
00:01:22But Randy, I think the real story of the race was the pace.
00:01:28And you know, we saw in the derby how important it was because it was so fast.
00:01:32In the Preakness, we saw how important it was because it was so slow.
00:01:36Big advantage for national treasure and John Velasquez, who we'll hear from shortly, he's
00:01:40the Green Group Guest of the Week, took advantage of it.
00:01:43And a horse who, you know, at the beginning of the year might have been no better than
00:01:46Bob Baffert's fifth or sixth best three-year-old in his barn, is now the Preakness winner.
00:01:50Yeah, I mean, the pace, obviously, by far the big story here.
00:01:54And it's not a stretch to say it was a historically slow pace, because if you go back through
00:02:01the Preaknesses looking for anything that could be as slow as 48.92 for the half mile,
00:02:08you go back to 1973 with Secretariat in his Preakness, but then there was a timing malfunction.
00:02:15And it looked on paper like the fractions for that race were way slower than you would
00:02:20expect, so that was probably a malfunction.
00:02:22You got to go back to 1960 before that, a horse called Balliet who went wire to wire
00:02:26in the Preakness, but that was before hundredths of a second were used in timing.
00:02:31He went 48 and four-fifths.
00:02:33And then before that even, Citation in 1948 went 50 and change for a half mile in a four-horse
00:02:39field in which they completely left him alone.
00:02:42So very, very rare to see a pace this slow in the Preakness, but you could really see
00:02:48it coming.
00:02:50There were only two horses in the race on paper that had any kind of early speed at
00:02:55all, National Treasure and the Maryland Horse Coffee with Chris.
00:03:00And when we went to talk to John Salzman Jr., the trainer of Coffee with Chris, a couple
00:03:05days before the race, I asked him, I said, so you're the only other horse with speed.
00:03:11How do you play that?
00:03:12Do you try to put pressure on National Treasure to keep it from getting away too easily?
00:03:19And Salzman said, no.
00:03:21He said, what we'd like to do is sit off of National Treasure and go as slow as we both
00:03:28possibly can and turn it into a match race at the quarter pole.
00:03:33And then from the quarter pole home, may the best horse win.
00:03:36He said, I think that's the best chance that we have of winning or of hitting the board
00:03:42because he was one of the long shots in there.
00:03:44So knowing that, knowing that no one, not even Coffee with Chris, was going to be putting
00:03:49pressure on National Treasure directly during the first part of the race, you could really
00:03:54see it coming, that this was going to be, that the pace was going to be a huge story.
00:04:00And when Red Route One of all horses was fairly close to the pace going down the backstretch,
00:04:06that was just even more of an illustration of exactly how slow they were going.
00:04:10I was honestly surprised that given the pace, that National Treasure didn't kick away and
00:04:18draw off and win by four or five lengths down the lane.
00:04:22I think that might be telling going forward, because if National Treasure runs in the Belmont
00:04:28stakes, given the setup that he had in the Preakness and the fact that he still had to
00:04:33fight tooth and nail to be blazing sevens, I would think National Treasure would be a
00:04:39play against next time out.
00:04:42Yeah, we'll talk about the prospective field for the Belmont a little bit later.
00:04:45A 98 buyer number for the Preakness, that's not going to get anybody too excited with
00:04:51105 for Mage in the Kentucky Derby.
00:04:53So from that aspect, the group regressed.
00:04:56I thought Mage with these crazy odds at seven to five, who on earth was ever going to make
00:05:04Chase the Chaos 10 to one and Coffee with Chris 10 to one, two of the craziest prices
00:05:11we've ever seen in any Triple Crown race ever.
00:05:15But nonetheless, I thought at seven to five, Mage was a good win back because I thought
00:05:18he should have been three to five or four to five in there.
00:05:21He ran fine.
00:05:23The pace didn't help him.
00:05:25But again, he wasn't so far back that if he really put in an A-plus effort, he couldn't
00:05:31have got the job done.
00:05:32Castellano rode a good race.
00:05:33He kept him close.
00:05:34He was third, three and a half lengths behind a half mile out.
00:05:38But not being able to close against horses that were roughed up by the early pace, he
00:05:47ran sort of evenly in there.
00:05:49I guess I don't think much differently about him now than I did after the Derby.
00:05:53He's a very good horse.
00:05:54He ran a good race.
00:05:55We won't see him in the Belmont.
00:05:57Is he a superstar?
00:05:58No, he's probably not even the best three-year-old out there.
00:06:00But they got that Kentucky Derby.
00:06:02They didn't embarrass themselves in the Preakness.
00:06:04And as always, it's a shame that he won't be going to Belmont Park with a chance to
00:06:09put 100,000 people in the stands screaming and yelling for another Triple Crown winner.
00:06:12Yeah, I mean, you and I don't differ very often, but we have a difference of opinion
00:06:17about the 7-5 on Mage.
00:06:19I thought that he was actually overbet at 7-5 because he had a fast-paced setup in the
00:06:25Florida Derby, even though he didn't break.
00:06:27He had an extremely fast-paced setup in the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:31And now, and granted, knowing what we knew about National Treasure vis-a-vis Coffee with
00:06:39Chris, Mage was suddenly going to be in a completely different situation.
00:06:43He also was going to be coming back on two weeks rest, where every other horse in the
00:06:48field, including National Treasure, had more of a rest period leading into the Preakness.
00:06:55So, you know, there are different ways of looking at it.
00:06:58I thought Blazing Sevens actually ran an exceptional race.
00:07:01He was three to three-and-a-half wide around the first turn, a couple of paths outside
00:07:06of National Treasure.
00:07:08He was at least one path outside of National Treasure around the second turn.
00:07:12So he probably ran three to three-and-a-half points farther in the race than National Treasure
00:07:17did.
00:07:18And yet it still looked like he was maybe likely to win at the eighth pole when they
00:07:24were battling down the stretch.
00:07:25So a really good effort for him.
00:07:27And I agree with you.
00:07:27I thought Mage, given the circumstances, actually turned in a pretty creditable race.
00:07:32I don't think he lost much in defeat.
00:07:35And it'll be interesting to see how these horses stack up a little further down the
00:07:38road, knock on wood, they come back healthy.
00:07:41The other horses performed.
00:07:43I mean, he didn't have any more of an excuse than Blazing Sevens or Mage had, really.
00:07:48He just didn't have it.
00:07:49I think Suge McGehee said it right.
00:07:51It wasn't the pace, really, for him.
00:07:54He just didn't show up, which was disappointing given the way he looked in the Tezio, although
00:08:00the number in that race was very slow.
00:08:02That turned out to be pretty telling.
00:08:04And as far as everybody else, I mean, I thought that, you know, there weren't really, other
00:08:09than pace, any real tangible excuses.
00:08:13Randy, we don't disagree as much as you might think about Mage.
00:08:16I agree with everything you just said about him.
00:08:19But what I looked at, and maybe, you know, you took a little different look, was that
00:08:25he stood out on paper as clearly the best horse in the race based on what he did in
00:08:31the Kentucky Derby and based on the quality of the field for the Freedmen's.
00:08:36The 17 horses he faced in the Kentucky Derby are miles and light years ahead as a group
00:08:45versus the six horses he faced in the Preakness.
00:08:50I understood it was going to be likely a more difficult trip.
00:08:53But, I mean, I thought he was kind of a man among boys.
00:08:56And he was good, as we both agreed, but not good enough.
00:09:01But, you know, we'll see what he does.
00:09:02You know, it's one of those years where the three-year-old championship is not going to
00:09:05be decided until the fall, maybe not even until the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:09:09I bet, I'll tell you right now, a three-year-old is going to win the Breeders' Cup Classic
00:09:12because the older horse group stinks, absolutely stinks.
00:09:16So, you can play that back in November and I'll either look like a fool or quite wise.
00:09:23But that was my take on that.
00:09:25So, there's a lot to talk about the Baffert story.
00:09:29We're going to get into the ugliness of the having a meltdown situation.
00:09:33But it's worth mentioning the Black Eyed Susans as well.
00:09:37His weekend got off to a poor start.
00:09:40Fiza, who skipped the Kentucky Oaks because the owner, Michael Lund-Peterson, did not
00:09:45want to run at Churchill Downs because they had a Van Baffert, was looking to keep her
00:09:49career perfect at six for six.
00:09:52And she just was real flat.
00:09:55She was a dull third at three to five and was beaten by Tacx, a nice story there, claimed
00:10:00by trainer Randy Morse for $50,000, an old Hoosier filly after those really bad races.
00:10:08She improved quite a bit.
00:10:09She ran second.
00:10:10But that was the beginning of Baffert's week and what was an incredible roller coaster
00:10:15for the Hall of Fame trainer.
00:10:17Yeah, when you look at the Black Eyed Susan, first of all, Fiza, even though she was a
00:10:22solid favorite and she was arguably the best three-year-old filly in the country on paper,
00:10:27still had some questions to answer just because, in Baffert's words, she was beating the same
00:10:32fillies over and over in California.
00:10:34And how would they stack up against the best of the East?
00:10:37And the only real clue that we had was the filly, and tell me no lies, from the Peter
00:10:44Miller barn, who had come East for the Breeders' Cup at Keeneland and had come East again for
00:10:50the Kentucky Oaks and had run poorly against the best three-year-old fillies of the East
00:10:55on both occasions, which on paper didn't exactly make Fiza, it didn't flatter Fiza.
00:11:02And it turns out that that was probably a pretty good barometer because I didn't think
00:11:07Fiza had any real excuse other than a three-wide trip.
00:11:10And that obviously didn't factor into how badly she performed very much.
00:11:15Taxt, a great story.
00:11:17Morse did a really good job, I thought, with his decision to take the blinkers off of Taxt.
00:11:24A couple of races back in the Honeybee, she had a 12-post position at a 12-horse field,
00:11:29which on a sloppy track also.
00:11:31But at Oaklawn Park, at a mile and a 16th, that post position is a real killer.
00:11:36And they had to use her a little bit early to get position around the first turn.
00:11:40And she just backed up.
00:11:43And he decided, OK, we need to take some of the speed out of her and took the blinkers
00:11:47off.
00:11:47And she responded in the Fantasy Stakes with a much-improved second-place finish behind
00:11:53wet paint, having to wait in traffic a little bit, swing out, follow wet paint, was actually
00:11:58keeping up with wet paint the last eighth of a mile once she got clear, which obviously
00:12:03at 11-to-1 in the Black Eyed Susan, that race in the Fantasy was a pretty good indication
00:12:10of what was to come.
00:12:12Great story for Richard Beatty, the owner from Omaha, small-time guy.
00:12:16You know, like most owners, he's lost money in the business.
00:12:21He's in it for the moments like this.
00:12:23Biggest win in his career, standing on the cupola, Black Eyed Susan, winner's circle.
00:12:28And it's got to be a fantastic moment for him.
00:12:33And the up-and-down thing for Baffert, it's just crazy, the sport, isn't it?
00:12:37I mean, it's so sad what happened with having to melt down.
00:12:40And it just cast a pall over Baffert's Preakness win, he admits, over the whole afternoon.
00:12:46Fortunately, we saw some great performances later in the card, but it's not something,
00:12:54the visual is not something that goes away easily, that's for sure.
00:12:57Randy, save your thoughts on that, because we want to get back into that subject a little
00:13:01bit later.
00:13:02Hey, we had so much fun last week with Peb, Pierre Belloc and his son, Remy, doing those
00:13:06cartoons.
00:13:07That was really, you know, we've had some great Green Group guests of the week over
00:13:10the several years we've been doing this.
00:13:12I thought this was one of the most fun we've ever had.
00:13:14And they had this contest to see who could do the best cartoon.
00:13:19The theme was the 50th anniversary of Secretariat's Belmont win.
00:13:23And then we had readers of the TDN and listeners and viewers of the podcast vote.
00:13:29I thought they were both terrific cartoons, but Remy beat the old guy, beat his father.
00:13:34So Remy's cartoon was liked by the most people.
00:13:37And then among the people that picked Remy's cartoon, we had picked a random person.
00:13:42And congratulations to Jade Ezenzimmer.
00:13:45She will receive the original copy of Remy's cartoon of the 50th anniversary of Secretariat
00:13:52winning the Belmont Stakes.
00:13:53It was Secretariat in sham and heaven.
00:13:55Secretariat sane to sham.
00:13:56Come on, guys.
00:13:57It's been 50 years.
00:13:58Let's get over it.
00:13:59So terrific.
00:14:00Congratulations to our winner.
00:14:02And that was a real neat thing that we did last week.
00:14:06It was a lot of fun.
00:14:07So, hey, we want to remind you that the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland,
00:14:11home of the World's Yearling Sale.
00:14:12The energy, magic, and momentum of the September Yearling Sale returns September 11th through
00:14:17the 23rd.
00:14:18Learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:14:22That's, once again, theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:14:27We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:14:34If this place could talk,
00:14:37it would roar.
00:14:39It would say, this is a race, this beating heart in the heart of horse country,
00:14:48steady and strong beneath the roar, reminding us why, for the love of the horse,
00:14:56for generations to come.
00:15:00The best two-year-old by legendary sire, Quality Road.
00:15:04Very, very impressive debut.
00:15:06Cantering home could not have been more impressive.
00:15:09Coast to coast to the American pharaoh.
00:15:11He's the real deal.
00:15:13Undefeated and unchallenged at two.
00:15:16He's just too good.
00:15:18He wins the Breeders' Cup Jubilee.
00:15:20Cornish.
00:15:23Cornish, the newest champion to Coolmore America.
00:15:28The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:32The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:15:35This past Saturday on the Preakness Undercard,
00:15:37a highly touted son of Justify picked up his first stakes win
00:15:40when Arabian Lion won the Sir Barton Stakes,
00:15:42prompting trainer Bob Baffert to remark
00:15:44he should have brought him in the Preakness.
00:15:46Baffert said he may head next to the Belmont Stakes.
00:15:49We'll see about that a little bit down the road,
00:15:51but a big performance from Arabian Lion,
00:15:54and congratulations to the son of Justify.
00:15:59Well, Randy, I did ask you to save your thoughts
00:16:01about the having a meltdown story
00:16:03and the highs and lows of the sport and what happened.
00:16:08And, you know, we talked about this after the Derby.
00:16:12We had hoped to talk about anything
00:16:14but this very awful and difficult subject.
00:16:19Again, we had a fatality on Preakness Day
00:16:23in the Undercard race in the Chick Lang Stakes
00:16:25having a meltdown trained by Bob Baffert.
00:16:28Suffered a fatal injury.
00:16:31Don't want it to happen ever,
00:16:33but especially don't want it to happen
00:16:35when the NBC cameras are there paying attention
00:16:38and doing their job reporting on it.
00:16:40And it made the story even messier
00:16:43than it was Bob Baffert
00:16:44because of what has been circulating around him
00:16:48and the controversy,
00:16:49whether you think it's fair or not,
00:16:52the controversy that has followed him
00:16:54going back through the Medina spirit
00:16:56and story, his suspensions and Churchill downs
00:17:00and some other issues.
00:17:03And I always like to look to see
00:17:05what the mainstream media has to say about these things
00:17:09because I think what they say is a lot more important
00:17:12than what the racing people say
00:17:14because I think racing's fate is in the hands
00:17:17of the man on the street
00:17:20and the court of public opinion.
00:17:22And when you get a Baltimore Sun headline
00:17:24above the fold on the front page of the paper
00:17:28in the main paper in Baltimore,
00:17:31it was the paper in Baltimore,
00:17:33national conflict, national treasures,
00:17:35victory in the race contrasted
00:17:38with a horse's death earlier in the day
00:17:41highlighting the controversy in a historic
00:17:43but deadly sport.
00:17:46Tough to read that stuff, Randy.
00:17:48Yeah, it's scary for those of us who love the sport
00:17:51and who've been around it for all of our adult lives
00:17:55and even not so adult.
00:17:58It's a really, really scary time
00:18:02because we're talking about now
00:18:06what the statistics show is probably an all time low
00:18:11in horse fatalities.
00:18:14Dramatic decreases in Santa Anita,
00:18:17pretty dramatic increases in Maryland
00:18:19at Laurel and Pimlico.
00:18:22Because of all the steps that have been taken
00:18:25over the past three or four years
00:18:26to try to ensure horse safety,
00:18:28that the steps that are still being bolstered
00:18:34and still being perfected.
00:18:37And yet, despite all that,
00:18:38despite the numbers that say the sport is safer
00:18:41than it's ever been for horses,
00:18:43you get a couple more horse deaths at Churchill Downs
00:18:46post Kentucky Derby,
00:18:47which make headlines in Kentucky.
00:18:50And then you get this on national TV.
00:18:53And we know that there's no way
00:18:57that horse deaths will ever be zero in the sport.
00:19:01It's impossible.
00:19:03But will anything be satisfactory above zero
00:19:07when these things happen on a high profile stage?
00:19:12Like we saw at the Kentucky Derby.
00:19:14I mean, we were doing the Pat Day Mile
00:19:16when the horse broke down during the Pat Day Mile.
00:19:19And here in the Chick Lang,
00:19:22it was like a dagger when you're doing the race.
00:19:26Even for those of us who've been around the sport,
00:19:28you and I have been around the sport for so long.
00:19:30No telling how many times
00:19:31we've seen something like that happen.
00:19:33And it still just gets you.
00:19:35It gets you every time.
00:19:37It doesn't even have to be a special horse.
00:19:38It doesn't have to be a stakes horse.
00:19:40It can be an average horse, a poor horse.
00:19:42It doesn't really matter.
00:19:44But when we saw it happen to having a meltdown,
00:19:48it was just like, oh my God, again.
00:19:52And it probably helps that for people
00:19:58that don't know that much about the sport and question it
00:20:03to see the reaction of Baffert
00:20:05after he won the Preakness, right?
00:20:07And I talked to Kenny Rice,
00:20:08who was on the Bob Baffert trail all day long.
00:20:11And Kenny was back at the barn with Bob.
00:20:14And he said he felt like that he was basically
00:20:17Bob's counselor,
00:20:19that he was actually just crying at the barn.
00:20:24And other people in the barn
00:20:25were very emotional as well about the horse.
00:20:28And Bob, he wanted to interview Bob.
00:20:30It was in the format for us to talk to Bob.
00:20:32But Bob said, I can't do it.
00:20:34And Kenny said, I know I could see
00:20:36that there's no way that he could do it.
00:20:39And then later after the Preakness,
00:20:40he got emotional on NBC,
00:20:42thinking, saying that it's never gonna be,
00:20:45you know, he's never gonna be happy,
00:20:48really, truly happy about having a melt about,
00:20:51excuse me, National Treasure's win.
00:20:53Because every time he thinks about National Treasure,
00:20:55he'll also think about losing, having a meltdown
00:20:59and how emotional that was for everybody.
00:21:02So, yeah, I don't know what else to say, Bill.
00:21:04I mean, it's just a frightening thing
00:21:08that to see the reaction of the mainstream media
00:21:13and the reaction, as you said,
00:21:14possibly of the man on the street.
00:21:16I mean, how do you convince them
00:21:19that these horses are, for the most part,
00:21:22extremely well taken care of?
00:21:25And that, like I always say,
00:21:26the dirty little secret in horse racing
00:21:28is not that the horses were treated poorly
00:21:30because they're not.
00:21:32It's that if there is a dirty little secret,
00:21:34it's that the horses are treated better
00:21:35than the people that take care of them.
00:21:37If you wanna look for a dirty little secret,
00:21:38that's it, the living conditions
00:21:41of the people who take care of the horses.
00:21:43But how are you gonna get that message across?
00:21:45Yeah, a couple of thoughts on the subject.
00:21:47And those of us inside the game,
00:21:51we're all very happy, like you mentioned,
00:21:52that the sport is doing a much better job,
00:21:54the numbers are coming down.
00:21:56But that leaves our best message to the public,
00:22:01we're killing fewer horses than ever.
00:22:03That is never going to win the day.
00:22:06And we also know that the number will never be zero.
00:22:11And I think we're getting close to a point
00:22:15where the social license to continue horse racing
00:22:22is in jeopardy because I'm not sure the public will ever,
00:22:26not everybody, but a lot of people
00:22:28will ever support a game
00:22:32or say that it should thrive and continue
00:22:34if any horses die.
00:22:36I mean, even if it's 10 a year or something like that,
00:22:38and we'll never get there.
00:22:40But I think we're actually have to look
00:22:43at something like that.
00:22:45And I wanna bring up another subject.
00:22:47And I think that this doesn't get nearly enough debate.
00:22:51And maybe it's time to restart
00:22:56the debate about synthetic surfaces.
00:22:59And right now, here's the numbers
00:23:01from the equine injury database
00:23:03on dirt, there's 1.44 fatalities per 1000 starters.
00:23:07On synthetic, it's 0.41.
00:23:10Means a horse is three and a half times more likely to die
00:23:15on a dirt surface versus a synthetic surface.
00:23:19So if we're saying that we're doing everything possible
00:23:23to keep these horses safe, we're not.
00:23:26Because we have gone away from the synthetic surfaces,
00:23:30which used to be all the cows,
00:23:31which used to be all the California tracks, Keeneland.
00:23:34I understand why we got away from it.
00:23:38I don't think it's practical
00:23:40because of the economics of horse racing,
00:23:42particularly the breeding industry,
00:23:44that we will do away with dirt racing
00:23:46and make it all synthetic.
00:23:48But there's a big answer to our problems.
00:23:50And nobody is heading in that direction.
00:23:54I mean, Gulfstream put it in,
00:23:56but didn't replace the dirt track.
00:23:57Belmont's gonna put it in.
00:23:58But those were their adjunct tracks
00:24:02to have a place to run when it's rainy
00:24:05and they're off the turf.
00:24:06So are we doing everything in our power?
00:24:10Not unless we go back to synthetic surfaces, we're not.
00:24:12Yeah, I mean, that's a good point.
00:24:14But to your earlier point,
00:24:16even on synthetic surfaces,
00:24:18you will get the occasional horse breakdown
00:24:21and it's never gonna be zero.
00:24:24And there are always gonna be people,
00:24:26PETA is always gonna be able to point to a certain number.
00:24:28There were this many horse deaths in America in 2023.
00:24:33This is a barbaric sport.
00:24:35It's got to be ended.
00:24:36I don't know the answer.
00:24:37I mean, what I try to explain to people,
00:24:40friends of mine who aren't huge racing fans
00:24:43and they question me about things like this.
00:24:46And I mean, I just have to say,
00:24:50look, these horses, first of all, were born for this.
00:24:54They wouldn't even be in existence
00:24:57if it weren't for thoroughbred racing.
00:25:00They're worth a lot of money.
00:25:01They are extremely well cared for, for the most part.
00:25:05You're always gonna have your bad apples
00:25:08in any walk of life, in any sport.
00:25:10You're gonna have trainers, unfortunately,
00:25:12who don't take care of their horses
00:25:14as well as some other trainers.
00:25:16And you just try to weed those people out
00:25:19as much as you can.
00:25:20But for the most part,
00:25:22I'm preaching to the choir here,
00:25:23but horses have personal trainers.
00:25:25They have dieticians.
00:25:26They have dentists.
00:25:27They have all of these things
00:25:30at their 24-7 call, basically.
00:25:36And that they're loved
00:25:38and they're really, really cared for.
00:25:40And that in the wild, horses,
00:25:42if you just turn the horses out in the field
00:25:44and said, okay, we're gonna let them be born free.
00:25:47They're gonna have accidents in the paddock.
00:25:49They're gonna have accidents in fields.
00:25:52And you will never, in any circumstance,
00:25:55do away with all accidents
00:25:58involving a high-strung thoroughbred racehorse
00:26:01that likes to run,
00:26:02whether it's run in the field
00:26:04or run on the racetrack.
00:26:06Getting that message across to people, though,
00:26:08and not sound heartless while you're doing it
00:26:11and not sound like you're just
00:26:15apologizing for horse racing
00:26:17is a tough balance.
00:26:18Yeah, it sure is.
00:26:20Well, again, two and a half weeks from today,
00:26:23the Belmont Stakes,
00:26:25and we will keep our fingers crossed
00:26:26that it is finally a day,
00:26:29like most days of racing,
00:26:31where nothing happens
00:26:32and everybody gets around the racetrack safely.
00:26:34So we had hoped that would be the case
00:26:36in the previous and it wasn't.
00:26:37But we look forward to better days ahead
00:26:40and hopefully things can die down a little bit.
00:26:43Let's keep all those horses and jockies safe
00:26:45as best we can.
00:26:46There are just nine days left
00:26:48until the $400,000 grade two 2023 Penn Mile
00:26:52to be run June 2nd
00:26:54at Hollywood Penn National Racecourse.
00:26:5649 horses have been nominated
00:26:57to the Mile of 16th Grass event
00:26:59with several top contenders expected,
00:27:01including Major Dude from the Todd Pletcher Barn,
00:27:03winner of the Kitten's Joy Stakes in the Pilgrim.
00:27:06Behind Enemy Lines, Jack Sisterson's the trainer
00:27:08and he's the winner of the Cutler Bay Stakes at Gulfstream.
00:27:11Gaslight Dancer from the Mike Maker Barn,
00:27:13winner of the Palisades at Keeneland.
00:27:15Mark Cassie is expected to send out Bobby O,
00:27:18winner of the With Anticipation Stakes at Saratoga.
00:27:22The Penn Mile caps a $950,000 day with six stakes races
00:27:28and there'll be a special guest announcer.
00:27:29Larry Colmus will call the card.
00:27:31He, of course, is the voice of the major races on NBC.
00:27:35We'll be right back after this message from the Penn Mile.
00:27:392023 marks the 10th celebration
00:27:41of Penn National's signature event,
00:27:43Penn Mile Night,
00:27:45Friday, June 2nd at Hollywood Casino
00:27:47at Penn National Racecourse.
00:27:49There are four Pennsylvania-bred stakes,
00:27:51each with a $100,000 purse,
00:27:53plus the $150,000 Penn O's.
00:27:56It's all capped off by the $400,000 Grade II Penn Mile,
00:28:01Friday, June 2nd at Penn National.
00:28:03First post, 5 p.m.
00:28:05For more, go to pahpba.com.
00:28:09The PA Horse Breeders Association presents
00:28:12the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:28:14Six races for PA sire, PA bred two-year-olds at parks.
00:28:18Two $100,000 contests at 5 1⁄2 furlongs
00:28:22on August 21st, PA Day of the Races.
00:28:25September 23rd, PA Derby Day
00:28:27as two races at 6 1⁄2 furlongs,
00:28:30both with a $150,000 purse.
00:28:32And in December, two races going long,
00:28:34each worth $200,000.
00:28:36For more, go to pabred.com.
00:28:39The TDN Writers Room is brought to you
00:28:41by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:28:44The Pennsylvania bred champions of 2022
00:28:48were announced this week.
00:28:49And as expected, Caravelle took home a lot of hardware.
00:28:53She was the 2022 PA bred Horse of the Year,
00:28:58Older Female, Female Sprinter, and Turf Female.
00:29:02Some other Pennsylvania bred divisional champions.
00:29:05Two-year-old female went to Flor de Sombra.
00:29:08Gordian Knott was the champion two-year-old male.
00:29:12Three-year-old female was Morning Matcha.
00:29:15The champion three-year-old male was Nimitz Class.
00:29:19And that was just as a three-year-old in 2022.
00:29:22He's already got a headstart on champion older male
00:29:24with how he's been running in Maryland
00:29:26this winter and spring.
00:29:28The Older Male and Male Sprinter Award
00:29:30went to For the Love of Bourbon
00:29:33and the champion turf male by Land and Sea.
00:29:37And speaking of Caravelle, of course,
00:29:39she will be headed next to Royal Ascot
00:29:42to compete there with trainer Brad Cox
00:29:44making the trip to England for that event
00:29:46for the very first time.
00:29:49The Fastest Horse of the Week is brought to you by WinStar,
00:29:52which stands a lot of fast stallions,
00:29:54if you think about it,
00:29:54including one with a connection to this week's Fastest Horse.
00:29:59More on that later.
00:30:00Fastest Horse of this week based on buyer speed figures.
00:30:04If you're watching the races on Saturday at Pimlico,
00:30:08no doubt who that would be.
00:30:09Straight No Chaser,
00:30:11who scored a dynamic seven and a half length win
00:30:15in the Maryland Sprint at Six Furlongs.
00:30:18Straight No Chaser, get this,
00:30:21went Six Furlongs in 108.27
00:30:26to earn a buyer speed figure of 107.
00:30:29That's a career high, not just the highest of the week.
00:30:32And it also happened to be a stakes record
00:30:34in the Maryland Sprint
00:30:36by almost a full half second.
00:30:38The previous stakes record 108.74
00:30:41was set by New York Central back in 2019.
00:30:45Straight No Chaser owned by MyRaceSource,
00:30:48trained by Dan Blacker.
00:30:49That's two big wins in a row for Straight No Chaser.
00:30:52He previously won an allowance race at Oaklawn Park
00:30:56by a similar margin in his most recent start.
00:31:01Now, what does Straight No Chaser have to do
00:31:03with the Windstar Fast Sire this week?
00:31:06Well, Straight No Chaser is a son of Spytster,
00:31:09who is by Spytstown.
00:31:11Standing stud at Windstar is Nashville,
00:31:14another fast son of Spytstown.
00:31:17Nashville, for example,
00:31:18set a new track record at Keeneland,
00:31:20107.89, faster by nearly a second
00:31:23than the Breeders' Cup Sprint later that afternoon.
00:31:26And you talk about speed,
00:31:28he ran 21 and change,
00:31:29opening quarter miles in six of his eight starts
00:31:32and sub 44 half miles on three different occasions.
00:31:37So if speed is key,
00:31:39look no further than Nashville,
00:31:41who stands at Windstar for a fee of only $15,000.
00:31:50Next, the TDN Writer's Room
00:31:52is brought to you by The Green Group,
00:31:54tax accounting and advisory firm
00:31:56specializing in horse racing
00:31:58and designed to save you taxes.
00:32:02Welcome in now The Green Group guest of the week,
00:32:04fresh off his win in the Preakness
00:32:06aboard National Treasure Hall of Fame,
00:32:08jockey John Velasquez.
00:32:09John, thanks so much for joining us.
00:32:11Congratulations.
00:32:12And the script for this race
00:32:15was a 23 and four first quarter,
00:32:17a 48 and four half,
00:32:19a one 13 and two three quarters.
00:32:22National Treasure was a length and a half clear,
00:32:24nobody breathing down your neck.
00:32:25If you could have written the script,
00:32:27could you have written it any better than that?
00:32:29No, it was just one of those things
00:32:31that worked out perfect, you know,
00:32:33you plan it and you don't really dream
00:32:37to have a trip the way that we had it,
00:32:39you know, it's like, you know,
00:32:40after, you know, the warm up and everything,
00:32:42the only thing that I was worried about,
00:32:44so I had a warm up in the post parade
00:32:47and I was like, well,
00:32:48he's going to try to get closer to the pace.
00:32:51And if he wants to get closer to the pace,
00:32:53he's going to have to go fast enough,
00:32:54you know, to go across, across with me.
00:32:56So when I broke and I took a pick
00:32:59to the side that he was there,
00:33:00so I started drifting my horse out,
00:33:02you know, right before the wire
00:33:04and pushed it now thinking
00:33:06that he might try to go up,
00:33:07you know, and try to get to the pace
00:33:09or do something.
00:33:10And then when I pushed him out,
00:33:11he started grabbing his horse back
00:33:13and he went backwards.
00:33:14So then I look, OK, he's out of there
00:33:16and then went right back to the inside
00:33:17and that kind of slowed the pace really well,
00:33:21you know, when he took back from the other horse.
00:33:24And from there, you know, it was pretty easy,
00:33:26you know, I'm just going to wait
00:33:26for them to get closer to me.
00:33:28And when the 36, from the 3A pole,
00:33:30fastest team pole, he started
00:33:32putting the pressure on the horse,
00:33:33on my horse.
00:33:35And after that, well, really,
00:33:36it was a really good fight down the lane.
00:33:38So I was very proud of my horse that,
00:33:40you know, he allowed me to do
00:33:41what I wanted to do and respond
00:33:43for the things that I wanted to do with him.
00:33:44So very lucky, very best.
00:33:47You were playing it pretty coy all week long.
00:33:49Everybody and their sister was talking
00:33:51about how it looked like National Treasure
00:33:53was going to get an uncontested lead
00:33:54and was going to have a huge advantage.
00:33:56And every time anybody asked you about that,
00:33:58he said, well, I just want to get him
00:34:00in a good rhythm.
00:34:01Yeah, I'm not really thinking about that.
00:34:04True, but the whole thing with him,
00:34:06because he doesn't break very good
00:34:08out of the gate, you know,
00:34:09he has not break a lot of times out of the gate.
00:34:12So I was playing pretty cool about it.
00:34:15I don't want to put that pressure on me
00:34:16or even on the horse that I'm going to break out of there.
00:34:18I'm going to hustle him and all of a sudden
00:34:20he's going to run off with me
00:34:21and go on a faster pace.
00:34:23I had in my head, if he breaks slow,
00:34:25I'm just going to let him put himself
00:34:27into the place instead of me,
00:34:29making him do something
00:34:30that I didn't want to do with him.
00:34:31So I didn't want to put that on me and my head
00:34:33that if he breaks out of there slow,
00:34:36I'm going to ask him to do something.
00:34:37All of a sudden he's going much faster
00:34:38than I wanted to.
00:34:39So I want to put that in my head
00:34:40that if he breaks slow,
00:34:42leave him alone no matter what
00:34:44and let him take you to the position that he wants.
00:34:47Well, that's what I was constantly going
00:34:50in my head that like, don't overdo it.
00:34:52If you overdo it, you're going to go too fast.
00:34:54If you don't, it's just going to be
00:34:56an unnatural pace for the horse though.
00:34:58And that's what I was trying to do.
00:35:00I was trying to put myself into the spot
00:35:02that don't overdo it.
00:35:03Don't let anybody put you something in the head
00:35:05that you're going to be able to do things though.
00:35:08If that makes any sense for you guys.
00:35:10It does.
00:35:11And John, even with that great trip,
00:35:14this horse still had to dig down deep in the stretch.
00:35:17I mean, at the 16th pull,
00:35:19this race is going to go either way.
00:35:21What did he show you?
00:35:22Did you know he had that kind of tenacity?
00:35:24You know what?
00:35:25Once I got to the 316 pull
00:35:26and the other horse got to me though,
00:35:27and then actually to the eight pull,
00:35:29he kind of put the head and head with my horse
00:35:31and he didn't go by.
00:35:32I knew I was going to come back at him though.
00:35:34You know, because when I went left-handed,
00:35:36he responded right away and I knew,
00:35:38I mean, he was fighting for it.
00:35:40Not only that, the gallop was incredible.
00:35:41You know, I have a little bit of,
00:35:43I know the horse a little bit more now
00:35:45and that's the reason I wanted to,
00:35:47you know, when Bob called me
00:35:48to maybe put the little blinkers on him.
00:35:51And the reason I did that
00:35:52is not to put any speed on it
00:35:53and maybe just to get a little more attention.
00:35:55He's a horse that he can be on the need of you
00:35:58and so all of a sudden he lets go,
00:36:00you know, like you don't know
00:36:01if he's on the need of you
00:36:02or not really pay attention,
00:36:04like his various body.
00:36:05And all of a sudden after the race,
00:36:07he gallops out really, really strong.
00:36:09So I thought maybe with the blinkers,
00:36:11we keep his mind in the business
00:36:12and concentrate on what he needs to do.
00:36:16And when the other horse got to me
00:36:17on the 316 pull,
00:36:18I made sure, you know,
00:36:19he was running before he got to me.
00:36:21And believe me,
00:36:23he really put every effort
00:36:26that I asked him to do
00:36:27and put every bit of it
00:36:28right to the wire.
00:36:29And his gallop, that was really good.
00:36:31So I knew that he had something
00:36:33on the need of me
00:36:34even before that,
00:36:35the race before,
00:36:36even though he'd been pretty consistent,
00:36:37but he's not giving me everything
00:36:38that he's capable of doing.
00:36:41And actually he put it at everything
00:36:42on the picnic day.
00:36:44I'm going to open up another envelope here
00:36:47while we're talking about the stretch run, right?
00:36:49We've all seen multiple times
00:36:53how I read can sort of
00:36:54push the envelope sometimes.
00:36:57Having watched the head-on several times,
00:36:59I'm of the belief that
00:37:01even if Blazing Sevens
00:37:02had gotten his head down in front,
00:37:04his number probably would have come down.
00:37:08I believe so.
00:37:10I think I believe so too.
00:37:12And thankfully it didn't go to that,
00:37:14you know, because I'd rather
00:37:15they win the way I won though,
00:37:16you know what I mean?
00:37:17But it could have gone to that.
00:37:19If it happens that he beat me by a nose
00:37:20or just by a head,
00:37:22you know, and then it would be a
00:37:23controversial, you know,
00:37:25I'll call in the race, you know,
00:37:27but, you know,
00:37:28there's nothing that we can do.
00:37:29That's his style of riding
00:37:30and the things he does is his thing.
00:37:34It works for him.
00:37:36So I just do my thing.
00:37:40Johnny, I want to pick up on that
00:37:41because I was actually going to ask you
00:37:42some very similar questions.
00:37:44You just said that's his thing,
00:37:46but as a veteran rider
00:37:47and somebody who obviously,
00:37:50you know, has been around forever
00:37:51and has achieved all this
00:37:52and is a mentor to young riders.
00:37:54Are you OK with that?
00:37:55I mean, some people say he's a dirty rider.
00:37:58Well, I don't think he's a dirty rider.
00:38:00I think he's definitely
00:38:02overpasses the line
00:38:03and does it a lot, you know.
00:38:06Listen, I have talked to him many times
00:38:07or tried to teach him,
00:38:08you know, that we can be aggressive
00:38:10when we have a line
00:38:13that we have to put in there
00:38:15and it's hard to control.
00:38:16For him, it's hard to control, though.
00:38:17You know, I don't know.
00:38:19For me, I've been riding for a long time,
00:38:21so I always try to take that edge
00:38:24as much as I can,
00:38:25but try not to cross those lines.
00:38:27I mean, we make mistakes.
00:38:29I try to make the less mistakes possible
00:38:31so I don't cross that line.
00:38:32So it's about where you learn it or not.
00:38:35In the aftermath of the Kentucky Derby
00:38:38and the pace meltdown with reincarnate
00:38:40and all that,
00:38:42I've been told it wasn't a slam dunk
00:38:44that you were going to actually have the right
00:38:46on national treasure.
00:38:48What did you have to do and say to advocate
00:38:52to make sure that you got to keep them out
00:38:55for the prequels?
00:38:56I'm really surprised
00:38:57that you actually found that out.
00:39:00You got good connections, I guess.
00:39:02Well, I had to plead my case.
00:39:04I called, I made a few phone calls
00:39:07and I plead my case.
00:39:09What happens and what didn't happen.
00:39:10And I think when you explain yourself
00:39:13to the situations of what happened in the Derby
00:39:15and the prior other races,
00:39:18I just want to leave it at that.
00:39:21But when you're left alone
00:39:23and you can communicate with one person
00:39:26the things that can happen in the race
00:39:27before it happens,
00:39:28before predict what happened,
00:39:30I think it's much better
00:39:31when the jockey and the one person
00:39:33to talk about what could happen in the race.
00:39:35And I think that's what happened.
00:39:38I'm going to say that I'm really strong
00:39:40of my beliefs,
00:39:41the way I believe how to ride the races.
00:39:44And if I don't put my input into what could happen
00:39:46and something goes wrong,
00:39:48and then things kind of goes bad.
00:39:51So I had to go back and make a few phone calls
00:39:54and make sure that explains
00:39:56that when I'm left alone
00:39:57or when I'm actually communicating with somebody,
00:40:00face to face,
00:40:01that I can predict what could happen.
00:40:04I think the outcome is much better.
00:40:07John, we're recording this on a Tuesday.
00:40:09So maybe the story will change
00:40:11between now and whenever this podcast
00:40:14sees the light of day.
00:40:16But best of my knowledge,
00:40:17and maybe Randy,
00:40:18he's really on top of these things,
00:40:19can correct me.
00:40:20Baffert has not yet committed
00:40:21national treasure to the Belmont,
00:40:23but it appears that's the direction he's going
00:40:26just by the mere fact
00:40:27that he shipped the horse to New York.
00:40:29What about the mile and a half for him?
00:40:31What do you see from him?
00:40:32And how do you think he'll handle
00:40:33that very difficult challenge?
00:40:35You know, like I said,
00:40:36he's galloped us out really strong every time though.
00:40:39So he's always have given me
00:40:42the feeling that he can do more,
00:40:44you know, and obviously put it together
00:40:47in the thickness
00:40:48and it put a really good effort
00:40:49and his gallop out was really, really good.
00:40:51So I think, I mean,
00:40:53it shouldn't be a problem.
00:40:54The way he gallops out,
00:40:55he's always giving more and more.
00:40:56He just had to put it together though,
00:40:58you know, and when you ask him
00:40:59to do something, his body,
00:41:01that's the only thing, his body.
00:41:02So he kind of goes and kind of hesitates
00:41:05and goes again.
00:41:06And all of a sudden you get off of,
00:41:08you know, you pass the wire,
00:41:09you put your hands down
00:41:10and he gallops out like you can't pull him up.
00:41:12So I think with him,
00:41:13it's just about getting his mind
00:41:15and focus and stay focused
00:41:16in what he needs to do.
00:41:17So I don't think that this thing is a problem.
00:41:21So you were at,
00:41:22it wasn't just National Treasure on Saturday.
00:41:24You were probably on the three
00:41:26most impressive winners on the Saturday card,
00:41:28at least as far as I saw.
00:41:30What are your thoughts on Arabian Lion
00:41:32and his win in the Sir Barton
00:41:34and also straight no chaser
00:41:36in the Maryland sprint?
00:41:38And it's funny you ask
00:41:39because Arabian Lion, again,
00:41:42is a horse that shows a lot of talent.
00:41:44And like I said,
00:41:46maybe a couple of months ago
00:41:48when I rode him in Santa Anita last race
00:41:50and come back to Bob
00:41:52and I was like, man,
00:41:53maybe he doesn't want to go that far.
00:41:54I don't know.
00:41:54I can't answer it
00:41:55because it was a sensible pace.
00:41:57It wasn't very fast.
00:42:00And he just didn't really give me anything.
00:42:03Obviously, then he went back to Lexington.
00:42:06He was a good second.
00:42:08And then I rode him
00:42:08and he was very impressive.
00:42:10And I said to Bob,
00:42:10maybe he just needed to grow
00:42:12and figure that out.
00:42:13I'm not sure.
00:42:13He feels stronger.
00:42:14He feels like he's more secure about himself
00:42:17and he comes up and show up
00:42:18and takes his day the way he did.
00:42:20So very impressive.
00:42:21And the other horse,
00:42:22the sprinter,
00:42:24very, very fast.
00:42:26I mean, it gives me goosebumps
00:42:28to think about having a horse that way.
00:42:31He ran in Oakland
00:42:33and he ran pretty much the same way.
00:42:36And the other day,
00:42:38I said to Dan,
00:42:41I'm not going to take any hold of him.
00:42:43I know that I got one horse
00:42:44really speed in the inside.
00:42:46I'm just going to let him break
00:42:47and put himself where he wants.
00:42:49And he says,
00:42:49you do what you need to do.
00:42:50So I said, OK, thank you very much.
00:42:53Maybe it's just like,
00:42:53come on, let's go and win a race.
00:42:57I mean, this horse,
00:42:58when he popped out of there,
00:43:00I mean, that door open,
00:43:01he was so quick
00:43:02that I would just sit on him,
00:43:04hold him to myself
00:43:05and into the main
00:43:06and just let him do his thing.
00:43:08And then after eighth of a mile,
00:43:10I mean, I see Iraq inside of me
00:43:12and that's OK.
00:43:13I can't leave you there.
00:43:14I'm going to take you out of there
00:43:15and just let my horse
00:43:16kind of sit where he was comfortable.
00:43:18And going around the turn,
00:43:20I just feel it so well
00:43:22on the knee of me that
00:43:23when he come to me
00:43:24on the quarter pole
00:43:24that I give him the head,
00:43:25he's like going so fast,
00:43:27so fast I'm thinking,
00:43:28oh my God,
00:43:30how fast can this horse go around,
00:43:32you know,
00:43:32and I didn't hit him.
00:43:33I kind of, you know,
00:43:33got down and they pull
00:43:35and wrote him out
00:43:36and met so excited.
00:43:38I mean, really excited
00:43:39to have an experience like that
00:43:41and very happy for Dan
00:43:42and the whole group,
00:43:43you know,
00:43:43and giving me the opportunity
00:43:44to ride the horse
00:43:45because I mean,
00:43:46I just picked up this horse
00:43:47back in Oakland a month ago
00:43:49and all of a sudden
00:43:50look at what kind of horses become.
00:43:52So very nice, very, very, very happy.
00:43:54As one of the all time greats,
00:43:56you still probably love
00:43:57to hear the words,
00:43:58just do what you think, right?
00:44:01Yeah, I think I think
00:44:03it works better when things work out,
00:44:06you know,
00:44:06so we have we have at least,
00:44:08you know,
00:44:09I do my homework
00:44:10and I see all the things
00:44:11that can happen in the race
00:44:12and so you have something in mind
00:44:15and hopefully the horse,
00:44:16you know,
00:44:16I like you to do what you want to do,
00:44:18but we have something in mind
00:44:20and it works out that way
00:44:21and the horse telling you,
00:44:22you know,
00:44:23all those things,
00:44:23man, it doesn't,
00:44:24I mean,
00:44:25the feeling that you get
00:44:25is it doesn't get any better.
00:44:27John, the prettiness
00:44:28is one of the few things
00:44:29on your resume
00:44:30you have not accomplished.
00:44:32You get that now.
00:44:33Is there anything left?
00:44:34If you look at, you know,
00:44:35maybe you've got a good
00:44:37seven, eight years left to ride
00:44:38at 51 years old.
00:44:40OK, yeah, thank you.
00:44:42I don't know.
00:44:43I don't know if I'm going to go that far,
00:44:44but I'm having fun right now.
00:44:45I am.
00:44:46I'm really having a lot of fun,
00:44:48you know,
00:44:49with the little I'm riding,
00:44:50the little that I'm picking up here
00:44:52and there,
00:44:53if I still get an opportunity
00:44:54to ride these horses that,
00:44:55you know,
00:44:56the excitement,
00:44:57you know, the fire that,
00:44:58you know,
00:44:59that's what keeps me here
00:45:00and really enjoying what I'm doing now.
00:45:03And I'm really happy
00:45:05in the position that I am right now.
00:45:07So it really,
00:45:08if you get the opportunities
00:45:09that I'm getting right now,
00:45:10I'm enjoying it.
00:45:10I stick around for a little while.
00:45:12Obviously, I have to be healthy,
00:45:13healthy enough to be here.
00:45:15And thankfully, I am healthy.
00:45:17I'm getting these opportunities.
00:45:18I'm having fun.
00:45:19So everything's kind of
00:45:20sticking to it right now.
00:45:21But the day that I feel
00:45:22that I'm not getting the opportunity,
00:45:23I'm not happy,
00:45:24you know, and healthy enough.
00:45:26Hopefully I can say that I work out of it,
00:45:28you know, being healthy enough,
00:45:29working out of, you know,
00:45:30our business.
00:45:32I think that that will go away.
00:45:35You know what I mean?
00:45:35I have to be happy and
00:45:37enjoying what I'm doing.
00:45:38Yeah.
00:45:39So I want to segue then
00:45:40to a totally different subject.
00:45:42And it's something that
00:45:44the racing industry is now talking about
00:45:46that we probably should have been
00:45:47talking about a long time ago.
00:45:49And it's very unfortunate
00:45:50that two jockeys
00:45:52over the last six months or so
00:45:53have committed suicide.
00:45:55But it has brought the subject
00:45:56of mental health for jockeys
00:45:58to the forefront.
00:45:59And people now look like
00:46:01they're really ready
00:46:02to do something about it.
00:46:04Not only are you a great rider,
00:46:05a Hall of Fame rider,
00:46:06but you're the head of the Jockeys Guild.
00:46:07So I know that you've been
00:46:08paying a lot of attention to this.
00:46:10Could you just weigh in on this subject?
00:46:11I mean, what do people need to understand
00:46:14about the pressures that jockeys face
00:46:17and what might lead some people
00:46:19to go to a bad place?
00:46:21You know, I think it's a really
00:46:24tough subject to touch about it.
00:46:26And it's just because it's a stigma
00:46:28that is always behind it.
00:46:30And I think if we look,
00:46:32I mean, even our own kids right now,
00:46:35so much pressure they put on our kids
00:46:37now in school and everything.
00:46:38So put that a thousand percent
00:46:41more to a jockey that, you know,
00:46:42that is working and trying to
00:46:46make a living out of it
00:46:47and try to stay healthy,
00:46:48try to, you know, stay positive,
00:46:50losing weight,
00:46:50and all this stuff
00:46:51just have to go through there,
00:46:53you know, working every day,
00:46:54seven days a week,
00:46:56working for free, basically,
00:46:57because most jockeys work in the morning
00:46:59and they work for free, basically.
00:47:01You're just going around to, you know,
00:47:03trying to get mounts
00:47:04and trying to get an opportunity.
00:47:05So, I mean, put that all in perspective,
00:47:07say, oh, what the jockeys go through.
00:47:11It's incredible.
00:47:12You know, the life of the jockey
00:47:13is not all clammy.
00:47:14I'm one of the lucky ones,
00:47:16one of the blessed ones, I always say,
00:47:18that I get the opportunities
00:47:19that I've been given all these years
00:47:22and stay healthy the way I've been
00:47:25healthy all these years
00:47:26to be where I am today.
00:47:27And even myself and my positions
00:47:29and my thing, I go to my swings ups and downs,
00:47:32just like everybody else, you know,
00:47:34so it's really tough to explain
00:47:36the world out there
00:47:38that all the emotions that you go through
00:47:40and all the things you,
00:47:42I mean, a perfect example,
00:47:43I mean, how to make a phone call,
00:47:45you know, just to make sure
00:47:46that I'm staying on this horse,
00:47:47you know, going to the practice.
00:47:50So, all those things behind the scenes,
00:47:52that's really tough
00:47:53and really a lot of weight
00:47:57on the jockey's mind, though,
00:47:58you know, it's incredible.
00:48:00So, putting all this
00:48:03in perspective right now,
00:48:04not only that,
00:48:05I just got off a meeting
00:48:06for two and a half hours
00:48:08about the same thing
00:48:09that we're talking about,
00:48:09you know, mental health.
00:48:13And at least something
00:48:14is happening now, though,
00:48:15you know, we had a meeting
00:48:16just today about it,
00:48:18trying to put people in place
00:48:22so people can, you know,
00:48:23show up and talk to the jockeys
00:48:25and not just jockeys,
00:48:26as is Ryder Iris,
00:48:27or even people who work
00:48:28in the racetrack as well,
00:48:29but mainly the focus is right now
00:48:31on the jockeys
00:48:32because what you just said,
00:48:33we just have two guys
00:48:34basically committing suicide
00:48:36and we're trying to help
00:48:37and bring this to awareness
00:48:39that there is help out there
00:48:41for anybody who needs it,
00:48:42and especially the jockeys,
00:48:43all the things that we go through.
00:48:44And I'm very optimistic
00:48:48that, you know,
00:48:48this could open the doors
00:48:50for a lot of us
00:48:51and a lot of jockeys
00:48:52and anybody who works
00:48:53in the racetrack
00:48:54that maybe they open up
00:48:56a little more,
00:48:57they can talk about it.
00:48:59Very good.
00:48:59Well, John Velazquez,
00:49:00thank you so much
00:49:01for joining us
00:49:02on the TDN Ryder's Room podcast,
00:49:04being the Green Group
00:49:04Guest of the Week.
00:49:05And congratulations
00:49:07on your Preakness win.
00:49:08Good luck if you get to the Belmont
00:49:09with National Treasure.
00:49:10And I think you're
00:49:11selling yourself short.
00:49:12I'm going to bet you
00:49:13seven more good years
00:49:14in the saddle.
00:49:15How about that?
00:49:17Thank you very much.
00:49:17I appreciate that.
00:49:19Okay, because of course,
00:49:20you're still riding
00:49:20at the top of your game
00:49:21and there's no doubt about that.
00:49:23So once again, Johnny,
00:49:23thanks so much for joining us
00:49:24and we'll catch up
00:49:25with you again soon.
00:49:28As this week's
00:49:28Green Group Guest of the Week,
00:49:30John Velazquez will receive
00:49:32a free one hour
00:49:34tax consultation
00:49:35from the Green Group.
00:49:36For more information
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00:50:45Quality Road,
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00:50:48stallion making tradition.
00:50:49A tradition that leads
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00:50:52and our stallions.
00:50:54Quality Road has sired
00:50:55multiple Eclipse Award
00:50:56and Grade 1 winners,
00:50:58including champion
00:50:59two-year-old Colt Corniche,
00:51:01champion two-year-old
00:51:02Philly Caledonia Road,
00:51:03champion three-year-old
00:51:05Philly Abel Tasman,
00:51:06and multiple Grade 1 winner
00:51:08City of Light.
00:51:09He's a leader of his generation.
00:51:11Quality Road,
00:51:12a stallion that stands
00:51:13above the rest.
00:51:15The TDN Writer's Room
00:51:16also brought to you by Lane's End.
00:51:18This week's Lane's End
00:51:20Sire of the Week,
00:51:21Quality Road,
00:51:22who is now the sire
00:51:23of a classic winner,
00:51:25National Treasure.
00:51:26You can add that to his
00:51:27long list of accomplishments.
00:51:29National Treasure was
00:51:29Quality Road's
00:51:3072nd stakes winner
00:51:32and his 15th Grade 1 winner.
00:51:35Quality Road leads
00:51:36the stallion roster
00:51:37at Lane's End
00:51:38for a fee of $200,000.
00:51:42We'll start to look ahead
00:51:44at the Belmont stakes.
00:51:45We don't have a full idea
00:51:47of who's going to go yet.
00:51:49Right now, there would be
00:51:50if National Treasure runs,
00:51:53there'd kind of be a big four.
00:51:54Forte, Angel of Empire,
00:51:57Tapit Rice, National Treasure,
00:51:58some other nice horses in there,
00:51:59but I think those four
00:52:00would command most of the attention.
00:52:02But Randy, to me,
00:52:03Forte is going to be
00:52:05the big story here.
00:52:06We know why he was out
00:52:08of the Derby and Preakness.
00:52:10Now he's finally going to get
00:52:11a chance to run
00:52:12in a Triple Crown race.
00:52:13Todd Pletcher gave him
00:52:14a workout over the weekend,
00:52:16said all systems are go.
00:52:18But as good as this horse is,
00:52:21and I still think
00:52:21you can make a case
00:52:22that he's the best three-year-old
00:52:23in the country.
00:52:25He beat Mage twice,
00:52:27and Mage went on
00:52:28to win the Kentucky Derby.
00:52:30But he's going to have to
00:52:31come into the Belmont
00:52:32having not run in 10 weeks,
00:52:34having never run more
00:52:35than a mile and an eighth,
00:52:37and missed a couple of workouts
00:52:38because of this foot issue
00:52:41that kept him out
00:52:42of the Kentucky Derby,
00:52:44then put him on the vets list
00:52:46in Kentucky,
00:52:46which kept him
00:52:47out of the Preakness.
00:52:50If Todd Pletcher thinks
00:52:50he's good enough
00:52:51and ready to go,
00:52:53that's all I need to know.
00:52:54Todd is not a guy
00:52:55that makes many mistakes.
00:52:57I don't think you're going
00:52:57to see a short forte
00:52:59show up in this race.
00:53:00And I'm looking forward
00:53:01to seeing him run
00:53:02because, you know,
00:53:03we kind of, you know,
00:53:04he's been out of sight,
00:53:05out of mind a little bit.
00:53:06He was a very good horse,
00:53:08the two-year-old champion.
00:53:09Pletcher has a great record
00:53:11in the Belmont stakes,
00:53:12but are these obstacles
00:53:14going to be a little bit
00:53:15too much for him?
00:53:16Yeah, it's really
00:53:18interesting, isn't it?
00:53:19I mean, Jerry Bailey
00:53:20and I were talking
00:53:21after the Preakness,
00:53:22so who's going to run
00:53:23in the Belmont, actually?
00:53:24We start going through the list
00:53:26and I said, Forte,
00:53:28I said, do you think Forte
00:53:30would run in the Belmont?
00:53:31And Jerry said, no, no way.
00:53:32And I said, I don't think
00:53:33so either, no way.
00:53:35I didn't think there was any chance
00:53:36that Todd would bring him
00:53:37back off 10 weeks
00:53:39and go from the Florida Derby
00:53:41at a mile and an eighth
00:53:42to the Belmont Stakes
00:53:43at a mile and a half.
00:53:44But I'll echo what you said.
00:53:46I mean, Todd has forgotten
00:53:47more about, you know,
00:53:49certainly about training
00:53:50than we'll ever even
00:53:52pretend to know.
00:53:53And he's, you know,
00:53:54he's so good about spotting
00:53:56his horses in the right races
00:53:58that you just have to
00:54:00give him the benefit
00:54:01of the doubt
00:54:01when it comes to
00:54:02something like this.
00:54:02Now, you also know
00:54:03that Mike Rapole
00:54:06is all about running again
00:54:07in the Belmont Stakes
00:54:08and trying to defend
00:54:10his title from last year.
00:54:12But, you know,
00:54:14he really makes
00:54:15it interesting, I think.
00:54:16And if he runs,
00:54:18there's no doubt in my mind
00:54:20that Todd will have him
00:54:21cranked up and ready
00:54:23to get the mile and a half
00:54:24because that's what
00:54:25that's what Todd does.
00:54:26Tap it thrice, though,
00:54:27I still think is the worst
00:54:28to beat in the Belmont.
00:54:29I mean, when he won
00:54:30the Tampa Bay Derby,
00:54:31I think you and I both said
00:54:32at the time,
00:54:33where's your Belmont Stakes winner?
00:54:34And even though
00:54:35he was kind of a no show
00:54:37in the Kentucky Derby,
00:54:38I think he's probably
00:54:39going to be the most talented horse
00:54:41in the Belmont field.
00:54:42And to me, I think
00:54:45he's still the worst to beat.
00:54:46Maybe that'll just make
00:54:47the price a little better
00:54:48the way he ran in the Derby.
00:54:50We shall see.
00:54:52And once again,
00:54:52with Mage not coming back
00:54:54in the Belmont,
00:54:55a still another year,
00:54:57not a single horse contested
00:54:58all three Triple Crown races.
00:55:00And as I've been preaching
00:55:01for 25 years now or so,
00:55:03it's time to change.
00:55:11All right.
00:55:11That's an inside joke
00:55:12a little bit there, folks.
00:55:14Hey, Randy, before we wrap up,
00:55:15I want to just talk
00:55:17about one more thing.
00:55:18And you spent a lot of years
00:55:20working and covering
00:55:21racing in Texas.
00:55:22And what a mess
00:55:23we have down there now.
00:55:25And Dan Ross
00:55:26and the Thoroughbred Daily News
00:55:27did a real good job
00:55:28of assessing the situation.
00:55:32And also kind of
00:55:33some of the ridiculousness
00:55:34of what's going on down there.
00:55:37To put it in a nutshell,
00:55:38the Texas Racing Commission
00:55:40believes that by law,
00:55:42they're not allowed
00:55:44to be part of Haiza.
00:55:45And if they're not part of Haiza,
00:55:47they can't send
00:55:47their simulcasting signal
00:55:49outside the state of Texas.
00:55:50So what we have now,
00:55:51both Sam Houston and Lone Star
00:55:54is that handles pathetic.
00:55:56Sam Houston handles off 93%.
00:56:00Now, you would say that
00:56:01that would be the quickest way
00:56:02to go out of business,
00:56:03but they get so much
00:56:04of their purse money
00:56:05from a tax that they tax money
00:56:08that comes in from
00:56:09equestrian products.
00:56:11I guess in Texas,
00:56:12if you buy a saddle or something,
00:56:14the tax money goes to racing.
00:56:15So their purses
00:56:16have been dropped all that much.
00:56:18But with no revenue
00:56:21coming in from handle,
00:56:22and this is obviously
00:56:23not sustainable.
00:56:24So what is going to happen
00:56:25in the future of Texas racing?
00:56:27It's up in the air.
00:56:28But he interviewed Amy Cook,
00:56:30who is the commissioner
00:56:33of the head
00:56:34of the Texas Racing Commission.
00:56:36And I'll put it this way.
00:56:38This is not the sharpest knife
00:56:40in the drawer, Ms. Cook.
00:56:43This here's a quote
00:56:45about what's going on in Texas
00:56:46that you can't believe
00:56:47someone would be
00:56:48so dumb to say this.
00:56:50She's supporting
00:56:51what's going on there.
00:56:52She says, I'm all.
00:56:53Well, that's one other quote.
00:56:55Maybe I'll get to that one.
00:56:56But here's one I would say,
00:56:59and I've said it
00:57:00to a few other folks
00:57:00I've talked to.
00:57:02If you're out of state
00:57:03and you want to watch Texas horses
00:57:05and come to the track,
00:57:06you have to watch it on TV.
00:57:08Wow, I hear she have a clue
00:57:11or not have a clue.
00:57:13I circled that quote.
00:57:15If you didn't bring it up,
00:57:17I was going to bring it up.
00:57:18And here's the punch line
00:57:20when she says,
00:57:21if you if you're out of state
00:57:22and you want to watch Texas horses,
00:57:23then come to the track.
00:57:25She's talking about a Texas track.
00:57:28You can't go to your track
00:57:30out of state to watch the horses
00:57:32because they're not there.
00:57:33They're not simulcasting out of state.
00:57:35So in other words,
00:57:36she's saying if you live
00:57:37in Massachusetts
00:57:38and you've got a horse
00:57:39running in Texas
00:57:40and you want to watch Texas races,
00:57:42get your ass to Texas
00:57:43and come to a Texas track and watch.
00:57:45That's the most ridiculous.
00:57:47She may be incredibly intelligent,
00:57:49but she certainly knows nothing
00:57:51about horse racing
00:57:52and about what makes
00:57:52horse racing tick.
00:57:53In 2023, to say something like that
00:57:56is just unfathomable
00:57:58and just is the perfect example
00:57:59of of how things have gone
00:58:02kind of kind of sideways
00:58:03in Texas right now.
00:58:06The the the purse supplements
00:58:08that you mentioned
00:58:09with all the the money,
00:58:12the tax money taken
00:58:13from the the ancillary purchases
00:58:17that have to do with racing
00:58:18and applied to the purses
00:58:20that was being advertised
00:58:22and rightfully so as a real panacea
00:58:25for Texas racing.
00:58:26It was really going to boost the purses,
00:58:29which have suffered
00:58:30because of politics in Texas,
00:58:34because of anti-gambling
00:58:36politics in Texas.
00:58:37You can't have account wagering.
00:58:38You can't bet on your
00:58:39telephone in Texas,
00:58:40can't log on to a computer
00:58:41if you live in Texas
00:58:43to bet on the races.
00:58:43There's no casinos in Texas,
00:58:45so racing can't get any benefit
00:58:48from casinos at the track
00:58:50or slot machines at the track
00:58:51or anything like that.
00:58:52So Texas racing really needed
00:58:54a shot in the arm like this,
00:58:56like like this,
00:58:57these purse increases
00:58:58that were going to come.
00:58:59But then those now are completely
00:59:01offset and then some
00:59:03by the lack of interstate simulcasting.
00:59:06So I agree with you.
00:59:07I don't know what's going
00:59:08to happen to Texas racing
00:59:09if they don't solve this.
00:59:10And I'm sure they will.
00:59:11You know, ultimately,
00:59:13when all is said and done,
00:59:15if HISA survives
00:59:17the various court challenges,
00:59:19if it survives
00:59:20what might wind up being
00:59:22a Supreme Court,
00:59:23a U.S. Supreme Court
00:59:28verdict of some kind,
00:59:30then Texas racing is going to be,
00:59:32you know, dragged along
00:59:34into the 21st century
00:59:35and then all will be well.
00:59:36But in the meantime,
00:59:39it's a lot of money
00:59:40being left on the table
00:59:41for Texas horsemen,
00:59:42and they're not happy
00:59:43about it at all.
00:59:45Yeah, and Dan did a real good job
00:59:46of just letting Amy Cook's words
00:59:48make her look very foolish.
00:59:49Here's that other quote.
00:59:51I'm aware of only only one human being
00:59:54that is upset in all of Texas
00:59:56about this approach.
00:59:57We're taking only one human being.
00:59:59Then Dan, after that quote,
01:00:01went on to quote like four people
01:00:03that were saying,
01:00:04I'm very upset about
01:00:05what's happening here.
01:00:06In Texas racing.
01:00:08And I'm sure he could have
01:00:09if he put the time
01:00:12and effort into it,
01:00:13could have found four or five hundred.
01:00:15Yes, that would have been
01:00:17upset about Texas racing.
01:00:18So, yeah, let's let they,
01:00:20you know, the Texas Racing Commission,
01:00:22you know, everybody else
01:00:23is saying that they're wrong.
01:00:25They can legally simulcast the races.
01:00:27And, you know,
01:00:29they need to just stop this nonsense
01:00:30because it's going to kill
01:00:32Texas horse racing.
01:00:34Anyways, we shall see.
01:00:37All right.
01:00:37How about the XB TV
01:00:39work out of the week
01:00:40and the XB TV work of the week
01:00:42is the Chosen Brawn
01:00:44for four furlongs and 47 on May 21
01:00:47at Santa Anita for trainer Eric Krueljack.
01:00:49Hard knock in California.
01:00:50Brett has won six great starts,
01:00:53all six and stakes races,
01:00:54including three this year.
01:00:56You may recall that the Chosen Brawn
01:00:58was the fastest horse of the week
01:00:59when he won the Tisnow Stakes
01:01:00back in February
01:01:02and is nominated for Sunday's
01:01:03Thor's Echo Stakes at Santa Anita.
01:01:06We've made history today,
01:01:07the first ever horse to be
01:01:08both an XB TV work of the week
01:01:11and the fastest horse of the week
01:01:13that goes to Chosen Brawn.
01:01:15We'll be right back after this message
01:01:17from XB TV.
01:01:36All the thrills.
01:01:55Fraction of the bills.
01:02:00Experience the power of the partnership.
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01:02:09of thoroughbred racing.
01:02:13West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:02:14the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:02:17Visit westpointtv.com.
01:02:20The TDN Riders Room is brought to you
01:02:22by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:02:23Joining a West Point partnership
01:02:25can launch you into the winner's circle
01:02:26and give you instant camaraderie
01:02:28with your fellow owners.
01:02:29Well, this week King's Ovation
01:02:31continued on his winning race
01:02:32for West Point and trainer Dale Romans,
01:02:34giving the owner-trainer combination
01:02:35their fourth straight win together.
01:02:37West Point owns King's Ovation
01:02:38in partnership with Peacock Stables,
01:02:40which includes NBC sports veterans
01:02:42Tom Hammond, Mike Pataglia,
01:02:44and Chris Collinsworth.
01:02:46To learn more, go to westpointtv.com.
01:02:51That's once again,
01:02:51visit westpointtv.com.
01:03:00Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:03:02It's been a lot of fun.
01:03:03We miss Zoe Kamen.
01:03:04Hopefully she'll be back next week,
01:03:05but I want to thank Randy Moss
01:03:07for joining us today.
01:03:08Also, a very special Green Group
01:03:10guest of the week, John Velasquez,
01:03:12our associate producers, Katie Petruniak
01:03:14and Anthony LaRocca,
01:03:15and our editors, Alita LaRocca
01:03:17and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:03:19And what would be a goodbye
01:03:21on the TDN Riders Room podcast
01:03:22without saying, hi, Lucy.
01:03:24Yeah, I think we need to pixelate
01:03:26that shot a little bit right there.
01:03:27I don't know.
01:03:28That's, Lucy, come on,
01:03:30be a little more modest.
01:03:33I guess she's out.
01:03:34We love you, Lucy.
01:03:35Hope you enjoyed the show.