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Transcript
00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the Writer's Room Podcast, the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:33My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:34I'm a correspondent for the TDN, also co-host of the Down the Stretch radio show on Sirius
00:00:38XM radio.
00:00:40My name is Randy Moss.
00:00:41I work for NBC Sports and I am sponsored as always on this TDN podcast by Lucy, the underdog
00:00:49who is right now doing what she does best, sleep and eat.
00:00:53Not eating, but she's sleeping.
00:00:56Zoe Kampmann here with First Racing.
00:00:58I am here with Doodle, and I've been running around like a blue ass fly all morning to
00:01:04get here in time to do this podcast.
00:01:07So Doodle's feeling a little sleepy now as well.
00:01:10We'll let you go, Doodle.
00:01:11Wait, wait, wait.
00:01:13Running around like a what?
00:01:15What is a blue ass fly?
00:01:16You've not?
00:01:17Oh, you've not.
00:01:18It must be an English thing.
00:01:20It's a very English thing.
00:01:21You've never heard that before?
00:01:22No.
00:01:23No.
00:01:24No.
00:01:25I'll let you use it.
00:01:26Okay.
00:01:27All right.
00:01:28Well, you always learn something on the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:01:31Now we learned that the word is blue ass fly.
00:01:33Anyways, we're brought to you each and every week by Keeneland, and we thank them for their
00:01:38sponsorship.
00:01:39So clearly on the racetrack over the weekend, the big Memorial Day weekend, Santa Anita
00:01:43was the place to be.
00:01:44They had a huge card on Monday and all.
00:01:47But what I thought was the most interesting and what I was most looking forward to was
00:01:51the debut of Eagle's Flight, the half brother to Flightline by Kerlin.
00:01:57Lots of hype coming into the race.
00:01:59I talked to John Sadler beforehand.
00:02:02He said he was very excited, thought the horse was a good prospect.
00:02:06And it turned out to be, I think, exactly as he called it.
00:02:09Is he the next Flightline?
00:02:10No.
00:02:11But no horse is going to be the next Flightline.
00:02:13That would be unfair to ask him to live up to those standards.
00:02:17But he got an 89 buyer.
00:02:18He won very comfortably after a slow start.
00:02:21Looks at least like a stakes horse to me, Zoe.
00:02:24Oh, he's a good horse.
00:02:26He's a very, very good horse indeed.
00:02:28And, you know, John had kind of kept his cards close to the vest.
00:02:32And I went and spoke to him this morning for a little bit for first things first, and he's
00:02:36still holding his cards close to the vest.
00:02:39He will not compare this horse to Flightline, which is fair enough.
00:02:43Nobody wants to do that, but I can.
00:02:45And I'm going to be quite honest, watching the pair of them work in the morning, Flightline
00:02:51had a very kind of knee action, almost turfy action when you watched him work over the
00:02:57main track here at Santa Anita or anywhere, to be perfectly honest.
00:03:01I can honestly say that I did not love any of Flightline's works, which is going to make
00:03:06me sound like a complete moron.
00:03:08But hey, I don't really care.
00:03:10He put it all on the racetrack in the afternoon.
00:03:13But visually in the morning, this horse looks good in the morning.
00:03:17He's just effortless the way he gets over the ground.
00:03:20He worked 59 with like one leg tied behind his back the other day and 58 out of the gate.
00:03:26He's a very, very good horse.
00:03:27He handled adversity in his very first start.
00:03:31You know, it was a full field.
00:03:32John initially was a little bit concerned that if he announced he was going to go into
00:03:37a maiden race, that it wouldn't fill because there's all this hype around him.
00:03:41And he was quite surprised when he got eight, eight or nine other entrants for that race.
00:03:46It was a pretty salty maiden race yesterday.
00:03:49He handled the preliminaries very well, broke out the gate just fine inside, took kickback,
00:03:56went through horses, came around and won like a good thing in a good time.
00:04:01Won 10 flat, I believe.
00:04:03Very, very impressed.
00:04:04And he did it spreading a shoe, which is even more incredible.
00:04:09The shoe didn't come off.
00:04:10John told me this morning that, you know, there was a lot of rumor that he lost a shoe in the race.
00:04:15He just spread a plate and he's absolutely fine this morning.
00:04:18So sky's the limit, I think.
00:04:20When I was watching the race, Zoe, I wasn't thinking of flight line.
00:04:24What went through my mind was this horse is as quick as a blue ass fly.
00:04:32He looked pretty darn good, I thought, for a career debut.
00:04:36And as you pointed out, overcame some adversity.
00:04:39So really something to look forward to now for the rest of the summer.
00:04:43Yeah, it'll be really interesting to see where John goes with him.
00:04:46And yeah, he's headed to bigger, better things, no doubt about that.
00:04:51All right, so we kicked off the weekend at Santa Anita with a Santa Margarita, a four horse field with a one to 20 shot.
00:04:59Not exactly something that the betters are going to get excited about.
00:05:02Adair Manor did it again.
00:05:04She's really good right now.
00:05:06At age five, she seems to be in the best form of her career.
00:05:09Matter of fact, her best buyer number coming into the race, her best two buyer numbers coming into the race were both accomplished this year.
00:05:18I just don't know what this race tells you, if anything, about it.
00:05:20I mean, the field was so overmatched that she didn't have to be a blue ass fly to win the race.
00:05:28She just needed to gallop around the racetrack.
00:05:30I'd like to see her take on some little stiffer competition.
00:05:33But Bob Baffert seems to be perfectly content keeping her in California for now.
00:05:39But a very good horse.
00:05:40But we didn't learn anything from this race.
00:05:43I mean, one to 20 pretty much says it all.
00:05:45I mean, we've all seen a lot of races.
00:05:47And maybe there's another one that I'm not thinking of.
00:05:51But off the top of my head, I can't think of a grade two stakes race in which one horse laid over the entire field as much as Adair Manor did in the Santa
00:06:03Margarita on paper, right?
00:06:05And I think what we're learning about Adair Manor, it was another example of it in the Santa Margarita, okay?
00:06:17For her career now, she's had 17 starts with nine wins, okay?
00:06:22If you go back and you look at her past performances, and you take all the races in which Adair Manor was in front midway down the back stretch at about the 5.8 pole, okay?
00:06:31You get nine of those races in her career.
00:06:34Eight of those, she won.
00:06:36So eight for nine when she's in front at the 5.8 pole.
00:06:40The races in which she was not in front at the 5.8 pole, she's won for eight.
00:06:45The only win when she wasn't in front at that point was in the Clement Hirsch grade one last year in which she set second, very close second.
00:06:53Wasn't one of her best races.
00:06:55She struggled a little bit to win against horses that she's far dominant against usually.
00:07:00But she's just a horse that, and I think Juan Hernandez mentioned this after the race, I think she's much more comfortable when she's on the lead.
00:07:10And I think that'll pretty much be the strategy with her going forward.
00:07:14I don't think it's more a case of being comfortable.
00:07:17I think she's a one paced galloper.
00:07:19She can knock off 12, 12, 12, 12.
00:07:22She just doesn't have any licks.
00:07:23She doesn't have that turfy turn of foot.
00:07:26So if she's behind horses, she's not going to catch them.
00:07:29Now, if she's in front, she'll gallop them into the ground and you're not going to catch her because she'll just extend that big old stride of hers.
00:07:37So she's, she's very quick, but yeah, you're completely right.
00:07:41And that's a very good stat to remember.
00:07:43I'll, I'll write that down for Juan Hernandez next time.
00:07:46What was it?
00:07:46One out of nine?
00:07:48Not in front of the 5.8 pole?
00:07:50One out of eight.
00:07:51One out of eight.
00:07:52Okay.
00:07:53I'll be sure to notate that.
00:07:55Randy says.
00:07:56All right, so let's switch now to the Memorial Day card, three major stakes races, including two grade ones, the gamely started off and boy, as Leonard Powell done a nice job with Anna set the winner of this race, Umberto Rispoli was aboard his story continues later on in the day as he won two grade ones first time he's been able to do that since he's come over to ride in the US, but this Philly is so consistent since she came over from Europe, she's had seven runs for the first time since she came over to ride in the U.S.
00:08:25She's had seven runs, five wins, two seconds.
00:08:28You know, this isn't the type of category or division that gets people all that excited.
00:08:33Uh, you know, Philly's on the turf, but she's just really good.
00:08:37She's really consistent and Rispoli can ride.
00:08:41Yeah, he can, he can flat out ride.
00:08:43He's he, he, when he's good, he's very, very good.
00:08:46He really is.
00:08:47And he had a very good day on Monday.
00:08:49Sometimes he, he, sometimes he can overthink things and that happens to a lot of jockey sometimes.
00:08:56He rode and a set absolutely perfectly.
00:08:59Now we've not seen us since December 26, when she annexed the American Oaks that day and going into that race, I thought she perhaps looked a little bit like Leo Powell, a very hands-on, very astute horseman.
00:09:14Obviously saw that himself as well, and opted to give her the time off and point towards the latter half of the year.
00:09:20And it paid off, but you got to think that Olivia Miranda, who shipped in, ran a bang up race as well for Will Walden shipping all the way across the country.
00:09:31She ran her to half a length.
00:09:32So that's a very, very nice Philly looking forward to the rest of the year as well.
00:09:38Yeah.
00:09:38Kentucky horses that shipped in ran second and third, right?
00:09:42Olivia Miralda ran second and forever after all Brendan Walsh and Dixie Anna finished third in there.
00:09:48After a sixth place finish in the modesty on the Kentucky Derby weekend undercard.
00:09:55Look, I mean, what we see at the Breeders' Cup pretty much every year is that just in general, the turf horses, male and female, in Southern California are not as strong as the turf horses in New York and in the eastern part of the country.
00:10:09But all Anna Sett can do is just compete against the horses that she's running against.
00:10:13And she's been, as you, as Bill pointed out, she's been remarkably consistent in her races so far in the U.S.
00:10:20And she showed a lot of determination to win the game.
00:10:24All right.
00:10:24Next on the program was the Hollywood Gold Cup.
00:10:28Glad they changed this name back to the Hollywood Gold Cup for a while.
00:10:30What was the Gold Cup at Santa Anita?
00:10:33That really didn't work.
00:10:35Bob Baffert won two.
00:10:37You know, you think of him as a trainer who dominates with two year olds and three year olds.
00:10:41This is a race for older horses.
00:10:42Obviously, it's the 10th time he's won it.
00:10:45Finished first and second in here with Mr.
00:10:47Fisk and Reincarnate.
00:10:49These horses are what they are.
00:10:50They're not really grade one horses.
00:10:52They're nice horses.
00:10:53They're going to make money, but they're not going to be a challenge in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:10:57But Mr.
00:10:58Fisk got the job done.
00:10:59Unfortunately, after the race, he had to be banned off the track.
00:11:03But Baffert reported he had a congelar fracture and doesn't seem too worried about him.
00:11:08So it looks like he's going to be OK.
00:11:10But the Bob Baffert show is not always limited to the Del Mar Futurity.
00:11:16Mr. Fisk looked amazing walking over.
00:11:18I mentioned that he had dapples as big as my fist when he when he won the race before the
00:11:24Californian, he got a jump on the favorite that day.
00:11:27Judge Miller for Mark Glatt, a brilliant ride by Kazushi Kimura.
00:11:31Kazushi shipped in again to ride Mr.
00:11:34Fisk and rode him to perfection once more.
00:11:37So, yeah, it was a one, two.
00:11:38It was also the three hundred and fiftieth stakes winner for Bob Baffert at Santa Anita.
00:11:44So he holds a record for the most stakes win.
00:11:47Yes, Mr. Fisk was banned off.
00:11:49I stopped by this morning, Bob's Barn, and he's very comfortable.
00:11:54He's going to go in and be operated on today.
00:11:57And they're going to just put a screw in that congelar that he had.
00:12:00And hopefully he'll be a OK.
00:12:04It was a fine, ground saving ride by Kimura, but I think probably the best part of his
00:12:11ride was what he did after the race.
00:12:14When you when you watch Mr.
00:12:16Fisk gallop out on the simulcast feed, Santa Anita sort of, for good reason, abbreviated
00:12:23the gallop out on video once Kimura got off.
00:12:26But on the part that you saw, it didn't look as if Mr.
00:12:32Fisk was noticeably lame galloping out or anything like that.
00:12:36But Kimura just felt something that he described as being slightly wrong, slightly
00:12:41amiss. And just for caution, cautionary purposes, he decided to get off the horse and
00:12:47play it safe. And, you know, obviously it's a good thing he did when the horse is taken
00:12:52back to the barn and diagnosed with the congelar fracture.
00:12:55So a good move by Kimura for doing that.
00:12:58And congratulations to the owner, Kyle Brookshire of Sunnybrook Stables.
00:13:03He's a Texas guy, doesn't have a very big stable.
00:13:06He bred Mr. Fisk with his late father, Larry.
00:13:09And so you see the familiar owners that Bob Baffert has, right?
00:13:14You're Mike Pegram and the Three Amigos and Amr Zidan and Michael Lund Peterson and
00:13:21people like that. Here's a Sunnybrook Stable horse now that's a grade one winner in the
00:13:26Baffert barn.
00:13:28Shoemaker Mile is next on the card and concluded the run of the graded stakes races.
00:13:35And it's the Umberto Raspoli story.
00:13:37He wins again with Johannes, trained by Tim Yaktin, an excellent ride, just as was his
00:13:43ride earlier in the card on the on the gamely stakes.
00:13:48Very impressive rider.
00:13:49I think he probably doesn't get quite the recognition he deserves.
00:13:53But this day will go down as the biggest of his career since he came in.
00:13:57Trained by Tim Yaktin, horse is now two for two at four.
00:14:01So it looks like he's really made the transition from a decent three year old to maybe a
00:14:07four year old who could be, you know, even Eclipse Award material.
00:14:10We'll see. But he came out of this, came out of winning the American grade three and now
00:14:15picks up his first grade one win for Johannes.
00:14:19He went fast. He stopped the clock in 133 flat.
00:14:23This is a horse with a devastating turn of foot.
00:14:26Now, I was at the starting gate all day on Monday when he got to the gate.
00:14:30He actually got a little bit warm, a little bit warmer than he usually does.
00:14:34Tim Yaktin sends him to the gate in a pair of earplugs.
00:14:37And it's up to the chock to just reach forward and pull them out.
00:14:42So when Umbi reached forward, I think he kind of yanked them a little bit.
00:14:47Tim must have really jammed them in there so he couldn't get upset with all the noise.
00:14:51So it took him a little bit.
00:14:52He pulled them and then the horse just jumped up in the air and bucked him off.
00:14:56So he unseated him.
00:14:58I was right at the gate and he smiled, got back on and just shook his head, went in the
00:15:03gate. And usually that that might rattle him a little bit, but he's got so much
00:15:07confidence in this horse.
00:15:09He just settled him immediately.
00:15:11And another picture perfect ride for Kouyathi Stables.
00:15:16C-U-Y-A-T-H-Y.
00:15:19And that means count upon your angels to help you.
00:15:25I'm not sure what's really behind it, but I just think it's really cool.
00:15:28So that was a Randy-esque antidote for us.
00:15:31There you go. Joe and Debbie McCloskey are the owners of that particular stable.
00:15:36There's great, great coverage in TDN about the ownership group and about how the Dan
00:15:42Kouyathi was their very first horse they bought.
00:15:45Right. They had a condo across the street from Del Mar Racetrack and decided to get
00:15:49into the business. So the very first horse they bought and now the very first foal of
00:15:53the first horse they bought is Yohannes.
00:15:56Look, turf racing is all about the trip, much more than dirt racing, really, because in
00:16:01turf racing, horses tend to be so much more bunched.
00:16:04The third place finisher, DuJour, who's the slight favorite, had a rail trip in his
00:16:09most recent win in the Kill Row Mile.
00:16:12And this time he was fanned about seven or eight wide turning for home and yet was
00:16:16only beaten, what, a length and three quarters.
00:16:19So that definitely hurt him.
00:16:21And a fantastic performance in here by the runner up, Funtastic, again, who broke on
00:16:27the lead. And then Goliad, as he often does, just absolutely took off.
00:16:32They went 22-1, 45-2 for the early pace.
00:16:37And yet Funtastic again was still slugging it out with Yohannes through the last eighth
00:16:42of a mile. So, yeah, deserving winner, Yohannes, but really good efforts by both the
00:16:47second and the third place finishers as well.
00:16:50The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you each and every week by Keeneland.
00:16:54On Saturday, the TDN named its newest rising star, and that was Pride's Crossing, who
00:16:59demolished a field of maidens in her very first start at Churchill Downs.
00:17:04Pride's Crossing was a $1.3 million purchase for Larry Bess Oxo, OXO equine, and was
00:17:10bred by Jane Lyon's Summerwind Farm, also the breeders of Eagles Flight.
00:17:16What else is Pride's Crossing?
00:17:18Why, of course, a Keeneland September graduate.
00:17:21Make plans to attend this year's Keeneland September sale, which begins on September
00:17:25the 9th. We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:17:33At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:17:40Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:17:47Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard, not for our sake, but for theirs.
00:17:56For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:18:04Phenomenal talent, brilliance, had that high speed that he could carry.
00:18:09Jack Christopher to win the champagne.
00:18:12He carried this quality from two to three.
00:18:15He was top notch.
00:18:16Oh, Woody himself would appreciate this effort.
00:18:20He was the most brilliant horse all year.
00:18:22That's all I heard was Jack Christopher, Jack Christopher.
00:18:24He was obviously the one to beat.
00:18:26It is Jack Christopher.
00:18:28He showed a lot of brilliance and speed and ability on the track.
00:18:31So we hope that carries through to these foals.
00:18:35Our foal is the first foal out of the mare.
00:18:37She's got a lot of scope, a lot of quality to her, very athletic.
00:18:42We're really excited about what we're seeing.
00:18:45Lots of Jack Christopher coming through, but just quality through and through and size,
00:18:49athleticism, very, very pleased.
00:18:52Extremely excited about what we're seeing with his first foals.
00:18:55The blue guy in the colt, he's big and strong, healthy, straightforward, smart, balanced.
00:19:04The my sugar bear foal, this filly is beautiful, a lot of bone, correct.
00:19:10I don't know what else you want.
00:19:12Can't say enough good things.
00:19:14I don't think size is going to be an issue with the Jack Christopher's.
00:19:18They seem to have more length of leg, which is going to lead to more size.
00:19:22I know it's very early days, but they're so easy to deal with as well.
00:19:26Those seven, eight mile type horses as stallions, it gives you so many options just for breeding.
00:19:32Lots of winners.
00:19:33You know, there's so many races at those distances and you can breed sprinters by those stallions
00:19:38and you can breed classic horses by those stallions.
00:19:40Great versatility and potentials there.
00:19:43I think the best is yet to come for Bunnings too.
00:19:45So I think we're only going to see that sire line, that branch of the sire line only continue to improve.
00:20:03So the top three all time leading earners bred in North America should be an easy question, right?
00:20:09Number one, Arrowgate.
00:20:11Number two, Gunrunner.
00:20:12How about number three?
00:20:14Well, this week's fastest horse of the week is brought to you by number three, Country Grammer.
00:20:19One of those fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:20:22Country Grammer made $14.9 million.
00:20:25Nowadays, you don't get to those numbers without international success.
00:20:29Seven million of that from his two second place finishes in the $20 million Saudi Cup.
00:20:34And oh, by the way, he also won the $12 million Dubai World Cup for another $6.9 million.
00:20:41That's how you get to the really big bucks.
00:20:43And Country Grammer also had enough precociousness to be a $450,000 two year old purchase and also break his maiden as a two year old in New York.
00:20:54And now he's in his second career as a stallion.
00:20:56Country Grammer standing at Windstar Farm for a bargain fee currently set at just $10,000.
00:21:03Now, the fastest horse of this week, a five year old gelding you may not be familiar with.
00:21:08Win for the money did just that on Saturday at Gulfstream Park in the Mr.
00:21:13Steele Stakes at a mile and a 16th on the turf, winning by nearly seven lengths with a buyer speed figure of 102.
00:21:20It was the first stake score for Win for the Money, who was owned by Charlotte Webber's Live Oak Plantation.
00:21:27Trained by Mark Cassie, bred by Ken Ramsey and his late wife, Catherine Ramsey, shrewdly bought the dam of Win for the Money,
00:21:33Mayakoba at auction for just $3,000 following her racing career.
00:21:39Mayakoba the dam could now run the three of us, but Ramsey liked her pedigree.
00:21:43Mayakoba's third dam is Terlingua.
00:21:47If you aren't familiar with Terlingua, look her up.
00:21:49Win for the Money, our fastest horse of the week.
00:21:52As always, our guest of the week segment on the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the Green Group, a tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:22:10And the Green Group guest of the week this week is Cherie DeVoe.
00:22:13We're pleased to bring her in now because she is one of the hottest trainers in the country.
00:22:18Going back to Preakness Week, she won three races on the Black Eyed Susan.
00:22:22Day card to earn the trainer bonus of $50,000.
00:22:26Cherie, thanks for joining us.
00:22:27Tell us what that was like.
00:22:28Three stakes races on one day at Pimico and that $50,000 check.
00:22:33Nothing wrong with that, huh?
00:22:34No.
00:22:35And it's kind of funny because I wasn't planning on trying to win it.
00:22:41I actually didn't know about it until a couple prior when we had already appropriated our runners that we were entering.
00:22:48So it was great.
00:22:49You know, we were hoping that a filly like Shotgun Hottie would step up and get herself into the form as she had done last year, where she ran herself into form and, you know, she feels pretty just hoping to get her off to on the right foot to this year.
00:23:07And then Pyrenees was the one that was kind of unknown, you know, stepping in a safe stakes company.
00:23:13We were just hoping that he would have a good showing of himself to show that he belonged in that in that league.
00:23:21So it all worked out better.
00:23:24I mean, I think our expectations were high, but it worked out better than what we had anticipated.
00:23:31So you were a longtime assistant, Cherie, to Chad Brown, probably best known then for your close relationship with Lady Eli.
00:23:38Went on your own in 2018.
00:23:40You've been going up, up, up since then.
00:23:43Tell us a little bit about how your stable is structured right now and what are some of the other horses in your barn that you're really looking forward to this season in stakes company?
00:23:53So right now we're based in Lexington.
00:23:58The majority of our stable is there.
00:24:00Most of the two year olds are there.
00:24:03And then we have two other divisions, a smaller one at Churchill and a smaller one at Ellis, which is where we're going to grow into with the two year olds.
00:24:12I think it's important you really focus on the best surface, the best environment and both Keeneland and Ellis.
00:24:18And not that Churchill doesn't.
00:24:19It's just very busy on the track there.
00:24:22So Keeneland and Ellis is where we keep them.
00:24:25And then Churchill is more based for the horses that are running, coming off of layoffs, older horses, just because it's so busy and the track can get congested and a lot of horses going over that track.
00:24:37The surface gets used a lot.
00:24:38So that's how we're structured.
00:24:41And this year, you know, you go in each year.
00:24:46I've gone into into the year just hoping we can just do better and build off of the last year.
00:24:52So this is the first year that we've really had horses that I can say, OK, let's see what Vava can do.
00:24:57Let's see what she feels pretty can do.
00:24:59Let's see what she can do.
00:25:01So this is the first year I really we started the year off with known expectations, known horses, because last year Vava was coming into form.
00:25:12She feels pretty wasn't even maybe just arrived at this point last year.
00:25:17So, you know, it was exciting in that respect to have horses that were getting excited for their future and for their campaign.
00:25:27So we have more than looks who got himself in a little trouble.
00:25:32He's entered to run an allowance race and we're hoping to get him started back this year on the maker's mark.
00:25:37But he, in true fashion to himself, got himself hurt in the stall.
00:25:42So he's just getting back.
00:25:43So hopefully we can see him this summer.
00:25:46You know, the usuals that we'd already not the usual, but the ones we've already spoken about, obviously, are very exciting.
00:25:52And then we had a Philly run second in the wonder again yesterday named Cybee.
00:25:56It's her first. She just broke her maiden opening day of Keeneland.
00:26:00So she's another one that stepped up and is exciting.
00:26:05And we thought she had talent and she's shown it.
00:26:07But she stepped in the stakes company right off her maiden race and it's got a little green trying to go in a tight spot.
00:26:14But, you know, that's another exciting one to add to the bunch.
00:26:18Well, your stable has grown in leaps and bounds, and that was your first three win day last Saturday on Preakness Day.
00:26:27I got a couple of questions for you.
00:26:28First, how did it feel to win three on a big day like that?
00:26:32And two, is there any truth to the rumor that David Ngordo, your husband, was walking around requesting to be called David DeVoe?
00:26:42Well, we'll start with the first one, where I'm really working on allowing big days like that and big milestones to set in.
00:26:51I'm the type of person where, you know, we win and I'm already focused on what is the next task.
00:26:58The next day we had runners and then coming back and we have breezers.
00:27:02So I'm one thing that I'm working on on a personal level is just trying to allow those milestones to sink in.
00:27:10I'm kind of a perfectionist by nature.
00:27:12So something else might be on my mind when I really have to pay attention to the bigger picture and how awesome this has been.
00:27:23You know, six years is a short amount of time and it took me almost a full year to win my first race.
00:27:28So when you put it in that perspective, it's just such a big accomplishment where the stable has grown and my business has grown.
00:27:36And as far as David, it's always been the joke that once I start winning stakes races, he was going to change his name to David DeVoe.
00:27:43But he says it like a bit hillbilly.
00:27:45So it's David DeVoe.
00:27:50I mean, everybody who knows him, I don't know if he's known for his funny sense of humor, but he does have one.
00:27:55And then I joked, you know, sometimes you read things on Twitter that you shouldn't.
00:28:01And when I was just getting started, you know, people thought, oh, her stats aren't great or maybe she wishes she stayed in her spot, you know.
00:28:11And so my joke always was, well, once I get going, I'm going to change my last name to David so my stats can go back to zero and everyone can just stop.
00:28:21There's a couple a couple last name funnies and it's all working out.
00:28:26So if David has to change his name, then so be it.
00:28:30I guess we're progressive these days.
00:28:33Sherry, you brought up your start and you went out on your own in 2018.
00:28:38You were 0 for 18 that year and you've already touched upon this.
00:28:42Then you lost another 10 straight races, 0 for 28, 10 and a half months before you got your first winner.
00:28:49Obviously, that's in the past with your statistics now being very, very good.
00:28:54But at any point, were you starting to worry or just maybe this isn't going to work out for me?
00:28:59Um, not that didn't really cross my mind.
00:29:03I personally had a lot of change.
00:29:06So I was a person that I did everything I could do my job.
00:29:11I work for Chad. There's a lot going on.
00:29:13It was a routine.
00:29:14And then I used to do the same thing over and over in my past life.
00:29:18I used to do bodybuilding and I enjoyed it because everything was structured.
00:29:22My meals are structured and, you know, my whole day was spoken for and laid out.
00:29:26So the hardest thing I had with the first couple of years is not just trying to figure out my new life and the new way to have my balance.
00:29:38Now I'm married and it's work life balance and starting a business and training horses.
00:29:42And, you know, I now that we're at this point, it's now trying to enjoy all of the work that we've put forward and stop putting so much pressure.
00:29:53I just put a lot of pressure on myself always to be to succeed, to do things at a high level.
00:30:00So there was a lot of talking off the ledge.
00:30:05And that was a joke when I first started.
00:30:07David, it was about six months before or it was in August of 2017 when we talked about it.
00:30:16And I said, well, you're going to have to take on a new role of Dr.
00:30:19Phil to just really help me stay focused and talk me off the ledge.
00:30:22And he's earned every penny.
00:30:24And now we joke about it.
00:30:26But he says, you can't say that I didn't warn him because I told him that it was going to be a struggle mentally.
00:30:32It's not ever anything that I worried about working out.
00:30:35It was just, do I have the constitution to keep going?
00:30:38You know, and then like three years into or two years into it is COVID.
00:30:43So there's just been a couple of unideal circumstances that everybody else was in.
00:30:49But I'm just a big believer if a win is just waking up and just putting one foot in front of the other and keep going.
00:30:56Eventually, the water gets a little bit easier to tread.
00:30:59And, you know, the first couple of years, that's just how I got through it.
00:31:04And a stepdaughter, Reagan, added into the mix as well, as well as a new marriage.
00:31:09So that's, yeah, as any parent will attest, that comes with its own set of circumstances.
00:31:16And she's great.
00:31:18She was the easiest part of the whole process, actually.
00:31:20It just keeps my language in check.
00:31:25So everybody needs somebody to tell you that's a curse.
00:31:28That curse was swearing, swearing.
00:31:30I'm like, OK, OK, I'll stop with the swearing.
00:31:34So you've commented before how when you went on your own in 2018,
00:31:39I think your first starter was May of 2018, you literally started with zero.
00:31:44You didn't have stable equipment.
00:31:47What was the biggest challenge in building your business?
00:31:51Was it those kind of things?
00:31:53Was it finding help?
00:31:55Was it the owners accumulating the owners and getting their attention?
00:32:00What was the biggest challenge in all that?
00:32:03Well, the first challenge was definitely getting getting the team structured.
00:32:08I like again, of all things, the work visas were all delayed
00:32:13for everybody across the board, so ready help wasn't available
00:32:17because any ready help was taking holding spots for work visas.
00:32:21So I groomed eight horses on my own and I was
00:32:26hot walking and doing everything, you know, just to get started.
00:32:30And then I'm a believer in success, begets success.
00:32:33And I'm in a fortunate position with David
00:32:37who had we bought some of our own horses,
00:32:42some of his clients, you know, like helped.
00:32:45Well, I always say help.
00:32:46They gave me a chance.
00:32:48And then you just start piecing it together
00:32:50and just trying to make the most of what we had.
00:32:52So, you know, I just think my biggest challenge, again,
00:32:56is just trying to keep a positive outlook on it
00:32:59when your hands are sore from bedding straw and
00:33:03giving baths and just trying to keep the outlook,
00:33:07you know, and then it all just organically has come from that
00:33:12from zero to where we are.
00:33:14It's not success, begets success.
00:33:17And the horses start to run well.
00:33:19I will say that I've been very fortunate along the way to have clients
00:33:22and be in a situation where the training
00:33:27we could take our time without the pressure
00:33:29because, you know, David has other businesses and forms of revenue
00:33:33so that I could do what I felt was right with the horses
00:33:37for the best outcome for them.
00:33:38And sometimes, you know, you have eight horses
00:33:40and two of them need time off that might show promise.
00:33:43It's hard to do.
00:33:44But, you know, just keeping that in my mind, if you take care of the horses,
00:33:48the horses take care of you in the long run.
00:33:51Sherry, we've watched you over the years.
00:33:53I watched you in your various assistant roles.
00:33:56And one thing that struck me is that you are not afraid of hard work.
00:34:01And that definitely shows.
00:34:03You've mentioned a couple of times structure and that you were a bodybuilder.
00:34:08How has all of that helped you in your training?
00:34:12How do you like parlay that over into your training career?
00:34:16Well, I'm a person that, you know, like discipline
00:34:20and all that with the bodybuilding stuff.
00:34:22That's that was all easy.
00:34:24I don't even know how I can say that now.
00:34:28But, you know, there were some times I had a I have a knee replacement now.
00:34:33But, you know, if you become more mindful of how one
00:34:38one small thing can lead to another bigger problem.
00:34:42And I remember one day I got knee injected and I was like, oh,
00:34:46I could do a whole lot more, but if I do, I'm going to get hurt.
00:34:48So then it stays in the back of your mind,
00:34:50like maybe do more diagnostics before you do something
00:34:54so that a horse doesn't get hurt.
00:34:56And, you know, as far as fitness goes, anyone who does it can
00:35:01can parlay that into what we do, because we are just making
00:35:05creating fitness in the horses and watching for subtle changes,
00:35:08backing off when you need to back off and trying to listen for them,
00:35:12because obviously they don't tell you until there's a major problem.
00:35:15So just trying to be mindful of how one
00:35:20progression in my own, you know,
00:35:23bodybuilding or sports life, because I've always played sports
00:35:25and trying to get that.
00:35:27But you have to really pay attention to the horses
00:35:29because they're not going to speak to you the way your mind speaks to you.
00:35:33Sheree, the upward trajectory of your career,
00:35:36you're getting better and better every single year.
00:35:38You made a huge quantum leap in 2023, 5.5 million purses.
00:35:43I'm sure you're going to be able to beat that this year.
00:35:45If you keep going on that that plane,
00:35:49you're getting into Chad Brown, Todd Pletcher,
00:35:53Brad Cox territory.
00:35:54But I take it that's not really your goal that you think,
00:35:57you know, being the so-called super trainer would just be a little too
00:36:00be a little overwhelming.
00:36:02It is. It's not it's not really what I'm comfortable doing.
00:36:07And I. I don't want to take anything away
00:36:10from those that you've mentioned.
00:36:13It's just I would like a smaller, you know, I'm out of 115 right now,
00:36:18and I don't really want more than that.
00:36:21We're in three different
00:36:24three different divisions right now, and we're all in Kentucky
00:36:27so I can travel to each division.
00:36:30I have great help.
00:36:32We have, thankfully, enough rooms to where I'm not having to muck the stalls out.
00:36:36But if I had to, I would.
00:36:37But no, and I you know, I.
00:36:41One of the aspects of how
00:36:46we structure what we're doing with the horses is
00:36:49we just try to put them in places where they're going to do their best.
00:36:53So that might mean I might not have a great Saratoga meet,
00:36:56but my the summer was great because we shipped out.
00:36:59We won the Charlestown Oaks.
00:37:00We won the Molly Pitcher.
00:37:03You know, so I'm not
00:37:05I just I laugh because through all this, I hit the top
00:37:09ten trainer mark for the first time at fairgrounds.
00:37:12But that's just because I don't focus on one specific meet and more
00:37:15just trying to run the horses where they're going to do their best.
00:37:19Well, and that might actually coincide this year,
00:37:23the way your stable is going with the Breeders Cup this fall.
00:37:27I mean, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.
00:37:29I'd have to think Vava would be the long term goal.
00:37:32The the filly and mare sprint shotgun hottie with her speed figures
00:37:37is getting better and better.
00:37:39The distaff division looks like it could be there perhaps.
00:37:42Right. Breeders Cup distaff.
00:37:44Are those the kind of things that you're already looking ahead to?
00:37:48Yeah, most certainly.
00:37:50Just trying to figure out each like I'll use Vava as an example.
00:37:56Her two goals are the ballerina and the Breeders Cup.
00:37:59So how we get there is how we get there.
00:38:02So, you know, we'll run in the great we're pointing to the grade three Chicago,
00:38:06which, you know, it's a step down from just winning a grade one.
00:38:09But it's a prep race for where we're having to go.
00:38:13And then again, this year, I at this point,
00:38:17I'm just going to say from this point, it's a good reference point.
00:38:20I didn't have any that I was hoping to go to the Breeders Cup.
00:38:23And last year, you know, we had
00:38:27five, three.
00:38:28I don't remember. It's five, I think, or three.
00:38:32I can't. I'm sorry.
00:38:33My brain is just not functioning.
00:38:35But at this point last year, we didn't have any.
00:38:37So I'm hoping that some of the two year olds,
00:38:40we've got a lot of exciting prospects, but, you know,
00:38:43they have to take themselves there.
00:38:46Well, what's the plan for shotgun hottie?
00:38:47Like the personal ensign, maybe?
00:38:49And I mean, what are you looking for for her?
00:38:53Right now, we're going to point her to the Fleur de Lis and then
00:38:59the personal ensign.
00:39:00She won the Molly Pitcher.
00:39:01So just kind of see where she fits best.
00:39:06You know, she continues on her last year.
00:39:09At this point, she needed some time.
00:39:11She ran the Molly Pitcher and she needed some time after that race.
00:39:14And then she's just a hard one because you have to run her into form.
00:39:18She's a big filly.
00:39:19She's just got a lot to her.
00:39:21So you can't really get her ready by training on her.
00:39:23You just got to let her run herself.
00:39:25So I don't really know where her top would be.
00:39:27Is she going to continue to improve?
00:39:30And we'll try to see with the Fleur de Lis,
00:39:32and then that'll dictate what we're going to do with her
00:39:34for the rest of the summer.
00:39:37I think she didn't she run a super fast number on the ragasin sheets?
00:39:41She did. She ran seven.
00:39:43Seven. That's that's wickedly fast.
00:39:47Yeah. Anyway, I think she's awesome.
00:39:50I'm a huge fan of Vava and I'm hoping to see them out here
00:39:54in Southern California for the Breeders' Cup.
00:39:56But you mentioned you're in three divisions.
00:39:58So can you talk a little bit of your team and who manages which division?
00:40:03Because if you're in three, it can't be in the same place all at the same time.
00:40:08Right. And it's really important with any
00:40:10even if you have two small divisions to have great communicators.
00:40:16I prefer a lot of my assistants to have communication with me.
00:40:20And if they can communicate, we can usually figure out a problem or what to do.
00:40:25So at Churchill, I have
00:40:29Darren Williams, who joined us two years ago.
00:40:33And he's great.
00:40:34He's one that if I call and say you have to go to Indiana, he's on a
00:40:38on the on the road to Indiana.
00:40:39You need to go here for three days.
00:40:41And I pair him up with another longtime employee.
00:40:45His name is Johnny and he's a foreman, but he's runs the Turfwish
00:40:50during the winter.
00:40:51So he's can be an assistant trainer as well.
00:40:54So there's always coverage in there in that area.
00:40:58And then Ellis, I have an assistant.
00:41:02His name is Daniel.
00:41:03And Daniel and I have worked together since the very beginning of Chad
00:41:07of when I worked for Chad.
00:41:08So he knows exactly what I'm looking for.
00:41:11He knows what my expectations are.
00:41:12He's great with the horses.
00:41:14He's great with the help.
00:41:16So he's he's at Ellis.
00:41:18And then we have David Carroll,
00:41:21who just joined us from working for my husband.
00:41:24And he's our
00:41:27assistant, along with Enrique at Keeneland.
00:41:30So, you know, when you have we have two different barns,
00:41:33you know, we have a rice road, which is a permanent barn.
00:41:35And then we have the main track side.
00:41:38So David is and Enrique are both the assistants there.
00:41:42And they work together.
00:41:43So I just I'm always clear.
00:41:44All the assistants are one.
00:41:46There's not one above another.
00:41:48But they work together really well at Keeneland.
00:41:51So do you have David and Declan?
00:41:54I have David, Declan and Kim.
00:41:56So I have the most of the family.
00:41:59And then Ashlyn comes in and clips for us.
00:42:01So Kim is now doing a lot of our therapy.
00:42:05She has a MagnaWave machine that we got.
00:42:07And then she does a lot of massage and restorative therapies for them.
00:42:13So they're great.
00:42:15Everybody's excited.
00:42:16And David just joined the team and Enrique has joined the team this winter.
00:42:22So, you know, it's a lot of catching up
00:42:26and just feeling out their comfort level with my expectations.
00:42:31My sister did work for us for a long time, but her life has taken her to New York.
00:42:35So she's up there.
00:42:37A lot of people really say anything, but
00:42:40she just wanted to relocate to New York.
00:42:42And we just didn't have a division to go there.
00:42:44So she's up there now.
00:42:46Sheree, before we let you go, last question from me.
00:42:49Is there one goal, one thing, if you could say,
00:42:53what do I want to accomplish the most in horse racing right now?
00:42:56What would that be?
00:42:59It's hard to answer that,
00:43:01because, like I said, I kind of set these lofty expectations
00:43:05that are not even goals.
00:43:06I just think like I just need to to do this.
00:43:08But really what I hope
00:43:12and I was actually thinking about this randomly on my drive back from Louisville
00:43:14this morning is, you know, I just want somebody.
00:43:18My goal as a trainer is when people talk that it's it's all not.
00:43:23Everyone's not going to like you, but just to have a good opinion
00:43:27about the whole process of my ideas of training,
00:43:31you know, which is being a respectful person.
00:43:36You know, just
00:43:39just just be a positive impact on the industry as a whole.
00:43:42I don't go out there and say I'm a woman trainer.
00:43:44I'm here for women.
00:43:45I'm a person who, you know, I didn't really.
00:43:48My parents were harness trainers and they worked hard.
00:43:51I didn't come from a lot of means.
00:43:53So I just try to to be positive.
00:43:57And and if that's my goal is just to have a positive impact.
00:44:01That's really what I'm my whole
00:44:04encompassing thought is of what I'm why I'm doing this.
00:44:08Very good. Well, Cherie, thank you so much for joining us.
00:44:11Is this week's Green Group guest of the week?
00:44:13Congratulations on that huge afternoon at Pimico.
00:44:16And we'll be seeing you a lot more times in the winner's circle, I'm sure.
00:44:21Hopefully. Thank you. Thanks.
00:44:24The downside of someone like Cherie DeVoe appearing as the Green Group guest
00:44:29of the week is that they have to talk to us.
00:44:31The upside is the Cherie now receives a free one hour text consultation
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00:46:05And they're off.
00:46:30Let's now kick off a new segment here on the TDN Writers Room podcast.
00:46:34It's news you can use with Emma Berry, the TDN's European
00:46:37and international editor.
00:46:39We'll check in with Emma from time to time to catch up on what's going on overseas.
00:46:43And the segment is brought to you each and every week by our good friends at Darley.
00:46:46So, Emma, thanks for joining us.
00:46:48This would be a welcome addition to our podcast.
00:46:51Obviously, we want to talk about the Epsom Darby coming up this weekend.
00:46:55And how are things shaping up for the Ballydoyle team?
00:46:58And what does it say that city of LaTroi is still the favorite
00:47:02after that very poor race in the 2000 Guineas?
00:47:05Yeah, it's it's everyone's guess as to how he's going to show up on on Saturday.
00:47:12He's actually drifted quite a bit in the market today, funnily enough.
00:47:15And his his stable mate, Los Angeles, is now almost co-favorite with him.
00:47:20But amazingly, since since the Guineas, just for a short while after that,
00:47:23he he sort of was toppled from the top of the Darby market where he was all
00:47:27all winter. But he and then he went almost straight back up there.
00:47:29So everyone has faith.
00:47:31It would seem that Aiden O'Brien can pull off another magic trick like last year,
00:47:36which, you know, when we saw August Rodin bomb out in the Guineas
00:47:39and then come back and win the Darby really impressively.
00:47:42So I think we're hoping for a second miracle.
00:47:45So, Emma, there was so much hype about City of Troy.
00:47:48I know part of it probably had to do with this pedigree being by Justify.
00:47:54But Aiden O'Brien threw quite a lot of gasoline on that hype fire
00:47:58with his comments about City of Troy.
00:48:00Has he given any sort of credible, tangible
00:48:04explanation for the 2000 Guineas flop?
00:48:08Any excuses that could hold water?
00:48:12I mean, various excuses straight after the race to do with him hitting the gates.
00:48:18He went in very late in the Guineas and he and he hit the stalls
00:48:22just before they jumped.
00:48:23So that was sort of an initial excuse.
00:48:25And but nothing really tangible, I would say.
00:48:29There was a press warning a few a few weeks ago at Bally Doyle.
00:48:31I was there.
00:48:32And, you know, he elaborated that they feel that they now know,
00:48:38you know, what was wrong with him, but without actually specifying.
00:48:42And certainly they look great that morning.
00:48:45They were happy.
00:48:46They appear to be happy with him since since the 2000 Guineas
00:48:50and actually released a video just in the last hour or so on social media
00:48:54showing him having a piece of work this morning with the stable mate
00:48:56looking to go really nicely.
00:48:58So, no, not a specific.
00:49:01We found, you know, he's got badly or anything, anything like that.
00:49:05But there certainly seems to be confidence within the camp
00:49:08that they've got to the bottom of him.
00:49:10And, you know, Aiden's, O'Brien's runners this year
00:49:14have they seem to have all needed the run.
00:49:16He went straight to the Guineas without a run, which is the usual practice
00:49:20for his Guineas runners.
00:49:21But, you know, they a lot of his trial horses as well have been,
00:49:28you know, perhaps running a little bit below standard.
00:49:31So, you know, perhaps I mean, we can but hope that that
00:49:34that, you know, the old saying used to be that the 2000 Guineas
00:49:37was the best Derby trial.
00:49:38I mean, I guess we'll see if that is indeed the case.
00:49:43I'm not buying it.
00:49:44And I was all over him like a rash going into the Guineas.
00:49:47I'm I'm I'm all out.
00:49:49I am all over.
00:49:50Ambiente friendly.
00:49:52And I want you to tell us all about that and his gallop over the lime kilns.
00:49:55And then another horse, Ancient Wisdom, who I think is going to love the going
00:49:59because it's been raining cats and dogs over there, has it not?
00:50:03Yeah, completely sick of all this rain.
00:50:06It's it looks like it's going to be drying up a little bit.
00:50:09It's it's, you know, a real changeable forecast as well.
00:50:12So my guess is that it'll probably be on the easy side.
00:50:16Epsom for Friday and Saturday.
00:50:18But but hopefully not a bog.
00:50:22Ancient Wisdom, yes, would would cope with that.
00:50:26He's a great one winner last year.
00:50:28And he's done nothing wrong other than be beaten by a very good horse
00:50:31in the in the Dante Stakes just a fortnight ago.
00:50:35And that's Economics, who sadly isn't coming to the Derby.
00:50:37He's almost the horse that's impressed me most of all the horse
00:50:40of the three year old colt, certainly in Britain I've seen this year.
00:50:43But he's quite a big, long striding horse.
00:50:46And they, William Haggis, his trainer just felt that Epsom
00:50:49with its sort of trickiness, the camber and all the up and down
00:50:52would come too soon for a horse that's really still growing into his frame.
00:50:56He's not coming, sadly, but he was the sixth, sixth winner of the Dante.
00:51:00So, you know, ancient wisdom chased him home.
00:51:03And again, that was his first run of the year.
00:51:05So hopefully we'll have him brought him forward and I'm anti friendly.
00:51:09Oh, God, I'd really love to see him go.
00:51:12Well, James Fanshawe, I think is one of the most underrated trainers in Britain.
00:51:16He's trained every type of horse you can imagine from champion
00:51:19sprinters to champion hurdlers. He's had a Breeders' Cup winner.
00:51:22He has yet to train a British Classic winner, which is extraordinary,
00:51:26really, considering he's so accomplished and that, you know,
00:51:30there's a real growing sense of anticipation and excitement.
00:51:34And the anti friendlies owner, Bill Gradley, is 91.
00:51:37He's had lots and lots of good horses in training,
00:51:39but he too would dearly love a Derby winner.
00:51:42And the horse looked really good on Sunday morning.
00:51:45You know, James Fanshawe isn't the type of trainer who comes out
00:51:48sort of with bold predictions.
00:51:50He's very cautious.
00:51:52And I know he seems to me to be quietly optimistic.
00:51:58You know, he's very happy with what he saw on Sunday morning.
00:52:00The horse seems nice and relaxed and, you know, being well in the next.
00:52:04He looks great as well.
00:52:05You know, he's a lovely, strong colt.
00:52:08I think there's a little bit of quiet confidence behind him for Saturday.
00:52:13Well, Emma, back to the Derby for just a second.
00:52:16Setting City of Troy aside, since we really don't know exactly
00:52:19what we're going to get from him,
00:52:21how evenly matched does the rest of the field look to you?
00:52:24And since long shots have been,
00:52:26they've had a lot of success in this race recently.
00:52:28Are there any maybe that people can keep an eye on?
00:52:32There are almost too many to keep an eye on.
00:52:34I think every, you know, almost of the more of the sort of outsiders
00:52:38for the field, we've had a lot of comments in the last few weeks
00:52:41of their trainers and connections saying,
00:52:44if ever we're going to have a go, it's this year.
00:52:46You know, it does seem an open race.
00:52:49I really like Voyage, who's coming in with a very unexposed profile,
00:52:54if you like. He's only raced once.
00:52:56That has been done before.
00:52:57Morstan in, I think, 1974, 73,
00:53:01won the Derby after running just once.
00:53:04He's trained by Richard Hannon, who had the first and second
00:53:07in the Irish 2000 guineas on Saturday.
00:53:10He won really nicely his maiden at Newbury,
00:53:14which is it's always a very good maiden.
00:53:16He's by the 2015 Derby winner, Golden Horn.
00:53:20And he just looks to have a really nice profile,
00:53:22bar his relative racing and experience.
00:53:26He was at Epsom last week for a spin around the course.
00:53:30They had a gallops morning and four of the Derby horses were there.
00:53:33And he's a kind of neat, cold, very well balanced.
00:53:36And I think he could spring a bit of a bit of a surprise at a big price.
00:53:40And Dallas Starr as well, coming over from Ireland.
00:53:43I like his profile, too.
00:53:44He he's also in double figures.
00:53:46And I think he's a horse that's perhaps slipping a bit beneath the radar.
00:53:51Well, Emma Berry, thanks so much.
00:53:52A very enlightening conversation about the Epsom Derby.
00:53:56We'll be watching this Saturday.
00:53:57And we look forward to having you again
00:54:00as a part of our team here on the Writers Room podcast.
00:54:03Great to be involved. Thanks very much.
00:54:05Darley's Knight of Thunder continues his fine run of success this season.
00:54:10His classic contender, Economics, was the runaway winner
00:54:14of the Group 2 Dante Stakes at York, while his daughter, Fairy Godmother,
00:54:18landed Ireland's first juvenile group contest of the year for trainer Aidan O'Brien.
00:54:24Last Friday at Haydock, Electric Storm became the latest winner
00:54:28for Knight of Thunder, who is a proven son of the absolutely brilliant
00:54:34Dabawi. And just like his sire, Knight of Thunder's
00:54:37progeny are effective in the U.S., too.
00:54:39At Churchill Downs, his three-year-old daughter, Dynamic Pricing,
00:54:43won the Grade 2 Edgewood Stakes for Chad Brown
00:54:45and looks like a filly with a very bright future.
00:54:50Well, there was some news made off track during the week,
00:54:52and it pertains to the Belmont Stakes.
00:54:54Floppy and Pratt is going to ride Sierra Leone,
00:54:57who will likely be the favorite in the Belmont Stakes,
00:55:00and is taking over for Tyler Gaff Leone.
00:55:02And this is a good question for Zoe.
00:55:05Tyler Gaff Leone, great rider, but we all know about that stretch run.
00:55:10And I don't blame Chad for making maybe it's just making a change
00:55:14for change's sake.
00:55:16But Zoe, what could have been done differently
00:55:20if you were to say that Gaff Leone
00:55:24did something less than perfect?
00:55:26What would that be?
00:55:28I mean, it's really hard to say
00:55:32because the horse lugged in on the bluegrass.
00:55:33The one thing you can say is that Tyler knows the horse very well,
00:55:38and he knows that he has a propensity to lean in down the lane,
00:55:41especially around other horses.
00:55:43I think he just wants to get to the rail.
00:55:46So you have to prepare yourself for that.
00:55:48Maybe when you turn for home,
00:55:49you immediately pull your stick through to your left hand.
00:55:53Chad Brown had mentioned that in the past
00:55:56he tried a cage bit on him and the horse didn't really like it.
00:56:00In his past work, he said he has started utilizing a cage bit,
00:56:04but he doesn't really lug in in the mornings.
00:56:06But he's also if you watch his works, he's always on the inside of horses.
00:56:10Chad says it's because he's kind of a lazy workhorse
00:56:12and he wants the other horse to propel him along.
00:56:15But I don't believe I've really seen him work on the outside of horses.
00:56:19So he's going to equip him with the cage bit.
00:56:21And Flavian's going to be cognizant that this horse does lean in.
00:56:25And I'm sure he's going to pull a stick through a little bit earlier.
00:56:28I mean, Chad made a big thing that he should have had his stick
00:56:32in the left hand already. I don't know.
00:56:34But that's basically what can be done.
00:56:37So what is a cage bit?
00:56:39A cage bit is like a houten.
00:56:40It's a straight bar that goes through the horse's mouth
00:56:43rather than just a broken snaffle.
00:56:46It will give you a bit more power steering.
00:56:49Yeah. And when they tried the cage bit on
00:56:53on Sierra Leone previously in a workout, the exercise
00:56:56rider came back and told Chad that the horse was not the same.
00:57:00The horse was not focused at all.
00:57:02It was like he was preoccupied with what was pressing against his cheek
00:57:08and kind of losing focus on what he was doing out on the racetrack.
00:57:11So they're hoping that with a little more repetition
00:57:15that the horse will get accustomed to it and that it won't be
00:57:18any kind of a problem if they choose to use it in a race.
00:57:22The reason that Chad Brown gave for using Tyler Gafleon
00:57:27in the first place on this horse instead of Flavien or instead of Irad
00:57:31or some of the other riders he might more frequently use
00:57:34is Tyler's success at Churchill Downs.
00:57:37And now that we're past the Kentucky Derby and the horse,
00:57:40you know, had the issue that he had in the ride that he had in the derby,
00:57:45then it's not surprising to me that he's going to now give Flavien Pratt a try.
00:57:49It's not an indictment, I think, on Tyler Gafleon,
00:57:53but I'm sure Tyler is, you know, is bitterly disappointed at the news.
00:57:58Now, weren't you guys excited by that big card yesterday at Belmont
00:58:01with the second race was the feature, the something other on the grass.
00:58:07What happened to Memorial Day in New York?
00:58:10It used to be the biggest deal.
00:58:13They put the Met Mile on the Belmont Stakes card.
00:58:16Now, Naira has done a fantastic job
00:58:19creating this huge extravaganza on Belmont Day.
00:58:23I would say next to the Breeders Cup,
00:58:25it's the single best day of horse racing in the calendar.
00:58:28But the the problem is you weaken everything else.
00:58:32And I'm an old school New York guy.
00:58:35Met Mile is going to be run on Memorial Day.
00:58:38It's going to be a huge day.
00:58:39Now it's just another day.
00:58:41Please, Naira, put the Met Mile back on Memorial Day
00:58:46and take one of those other stakes and put it back on the Belmont card.
00:58:49And maybe even what was the race?
00:58:52I don't even remember.
00:58:53Was that soaring softly?
00:58:54Was it at the name of the race?
00:58:56So you guys don't even know.
00:58:59That's how that's how important it was.
00:59:01So I would just that's just one of the things you like.
00:59:04One of my pet peeves about this and a lot of people feel the same way.
00:59:08It's too bad that the Memorial Day weekend at Belmont is a dud.
00:59:13I shouldn't say a dud, but isn't as exciting as it could be.
00:59:17And the reason is it doesn't have the Met Mile anymore.
00:59:20All right, right now we have a new segment on the TDN.
00:59:24We're going down Randy's rabbit hole.
00:59:30Yeah, it ain't happening, Bill.
00:59:33They're not they are not going to move the Met Mile back to back to Memorial Day
00:59:37because the handle doesn't justify it.
00:59:39Before they moved the Met Mile, it was averaging about two point
00:59:43nine million dollars in handle.
00:59:44The very first year Martin Panza moved it to Belmont Stakes Day.
00:59:48It was California Chrome's 2014 Belmont Day,
00:59:51but it did over nine million dollars in handle.
00:59:56Just the last two years, 2023, 2022.
01:00:00Last year, it did seven and a half million dollars.
01:00:03You get a lot of six, seven million dollar handles in the interim.
01:00:08So it's doing roughly triple,
01:00:11double to triple what it was handling when it was run on Memorial Day.
01:00:15And from a business perspective, I mean, Naira just can't ignore that.
01:00:20I love tradition as much as the next guy.
01:00:21You know, I'd love to see him keep the same tradition.
01:00:24But in this case, financially, it's been an improvement
01:00:28to take all of these major races and lump them on one day.
01:00:31And they're doing it pretty much once a month at Naira
01:00:34because people just don't come out anymore for your individual races
01:00:38like the Met Mile on Memorial Day.
01:00:41It just doesn't happen.
01:00:42Randy, I hate it when you make sense.
01:00:44Oh, boy, I concur.
01:00:45And that segment was brought to you, Randy's rabbit hole by dude wipes
01:00:52and blue ass flies.
01:00:53Don't forget the blue ass flies.
01:00:56Yeah. And you know what?
01:00:57Santa Anita is not complaining.
01:00:58We had a terrific day on Monday, Memorial Day with with our greatest
01:01:03stakes action and a great handle as well.
01:01:05So, yeah, keep keep going.
01:01:07Stay away.
01:01:11This Friday, the biggest night of the year at Penn National,
01:01:14more on the Penn Mile and the Penn Oaks in just a minute.
01:01:16But the card also includes two one hundred thousand dollar stakes
01:01:20for Pennsylvania breads on the turf, included in the schedule of twenty
01:01:25three hundred thousand dollar stakes just for P.A.
01:01:28breads to be run in twenty twenty four.
01:01:31Pennsylvania pays over the last ten years.
01:01:34The Pennsylvania Breeding Fund has distributed an average
01:01:38of twenty eight point five million dollars a year in breeders awards,
01:01:43owner bonuses and restricted race purses.
01:01:45If you'd like to learn more about breeding and owning P.A.
01:01:48breads, here are three options for you.
01:01:50You can pick up the phone the old fashioned style and call
01:01:53six one zero four four four ten fifty.
01:01:57Or you can email at info at P.A.
01:02:00Bread dot com or go to P.A.
01:02:02Bread dot com, the website.
01:02:06The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program
01:02:09in the entire United States.
01:02:11When you buy a yearling, it's a little bit like buying a lottery ticket.
01:02:14And we are trying to provide a lottery ticket that the likelihood
01:02:17is to hit the jackpot.
01:02:19Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
01:02:23Uncle Heavy late is a photo finish.
01:02:27Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state
01:02:29bread program in the country, bar none.
01:02:32The winner, Uncle Heavy.
01:02:33He's a three year old bred in Pennsylvania.
01:02:37Don't miss Penn National's signature event, Penn Mile Night,
01:02:41Friday, May 31st at Hollywood Casino at Penn National Racecourse.
01:02:45There are two Pennsylvania bread steaks, each with a one hundred
01:02:48thousand dollar purse, plus the one hundred fifty thousand dollar Penn Oaks.
01:02:52It's all capped off by the four hundred thousand dollar grade three Penn Mile.
01:02:56Before the races, don't miss our special meet and greet
01:02:59with our guest race caller Larry Colmus.
01:03:01Friday, May 31st at Penn National, first post five p.m.
01:03:06As Randy mentioned, this Friday night at Penn National is the biggest night
01:03:09of the year with the running of the grade three four hundred thousand
01:03:12dollar Penn Mile and the one hundred fifty thousand dollar Penn Oaks,
01:03:16along with two hundred thousand dollar steak traces for P.A.
01:03:20breads. Likely starters for the four hundred thousand dollar grade
01:03:23three Penn Mile include Neat, winner of the grade three Transylvania
01:03:26at Keeneland, and Tricary is the winner of the grade two American turf
01:03:29at Churchill Downs.
01:03:30Other possibles including Shug McGahee's Cugino and Lagmios for Steve Asmussen.
01:03:36And the most likely starters for the Penn Oaks include Pounce,
01:03:38winner of the grade three Here Comes the Bride at Gulfstream Park
01:03:41and Crown Imperial, winner of the five hundred thousand dollar
01:03:44Untappable at Kentucky Downs.
01:03:46Javier Castellano was a probable jockey aboard Pounce
01:03:49for Mark Cassie, and we could have a Frankie DeTore sighting
01:03:52as he may be coming to Granville, Pennsylvania, to ride just better
01:03:56for Steve Asmussen.
01:03:57It's the biggest night of the year at Penn National.
01:04:00Make plans to attend.
01:04:01First post is at five p.m.
01:04:03In this week's edition of First Things First presented by Santa Anita,
01:04:07I caught up with John Sadler and a rather camera shy Eagles flight.
01:04:20How are you feeling today, John?
01:04:21Relieved? I'm feeling good.
01:04:23Happy to get his first start under him.
01:04:25Had a good race.
01:04:26He got a lot of experience in that race
01:04:30and came out of it good.
01:04:33So we're good.
01:04:34Happy Tuesday.
01:04:36You mentioned a lot of experience.
01:04:37Like it was literally four races in one.
01:04:41Yeah. Break from the inside in a big field.
01:04:44Have a lot of horses on top of you.
01:04:45Eat a lot of dirt.
01:04:47Come up the inside and swing out.
01:04:48Really a beautiful ride by Flavian, obviously.
01:04:53You know, he handled it so well, you know, you didn't see him
01:04:55throwing his head up, you know, so they get a lot out of that.
01:04:59Everybody, of course, is making comparisons to Flightline.
01:05:02What have you seen from him?
01:05:04Well, we don't do that. I know.
01:05:06This is his own horse and he's a nice horse.
01:05:09And we're going to develop them and probably go long,
01:05:13maybe even a second start.
01:05:15So we'll see. Take it one step at a time.
01:05:18How good is he, John?
01:05:20We don't know. We're going to find out.
01:05:22Been very cagey.
01:05:23I'll tell you what I've seen from him in the morning,
01:05:25watching him work in the morning.
01:05:27It seems like he's got a different action to Flightline.
01:05:30Flightline had a little bit more knee action.
01:05:32This guy just skips.
01:05:34Yeah, this horse is a little,
01:05:37I mean, Flightline moved like a Mack truck, you know,
01:05:41or a super wheeler or something.
01:05:43But this horse, very smooth.
01:05:45Like I said, distance is his friend.
01:05:48What about Abdul El-Sogor?
01:05:49He's been working him each and every time.
01:05:51How much has he meant to the operation?
01:05:54He did a nice job. Worked him very well.
01:05:57Listened every time.
01:05:58And, you know, the key is not to get caught up
01:06:01in a fast work or anything like that.
01:06:03Even though his works look fast,
01:06:05if you watch his works, he was not being asked hard.
01:06:09All right, John. Well, thank you. It's exciting.
01:06:18Many thanks to John and Eagles Flight.
01:06:20Do just want to mention, guys,
01:06:22that even though we had two grade one races
01:06:25on Monday at Santa Anita,
01:06:27I think there were more people
01:06:29around the paddock for race number eight.
01:06:31They were stacked five or six deep
01:06:33just to see Eagles Flight come out.
01:06:36And that was how much hype there was involved with him.
01:06:40And he really justified, pun intended,
01:06:43all the hype there for Eagles Flight.
01:06:45Do want to remind you guys,
01:06:46that Santa Anita will continue Friday, Saturday,
01:06:49and Sunday with a one o'clock post time.
01:06:51Come out on the weekend for the Dragon Bro races.
01:06:54It's a really fun afternoon at Santa Anita.
01:06:58Well, now that the Preakness is in the books,
01:07:00the 2024 Preakness,
01:07:01we're learning a lot more
01:07:02about the future of Maryland racing.
01:07:05I did a Q&A with Corey Johnson,
01:07:07who has been appointed as the head
01:07:09of the Maryland Thoroughbred Racetrack Association,
01:07:12which is going to be the Naira-like body
01:07:15that's going to take over racing
01:07:17from First Racing slash the Stornik Group.
01:07:20We're going to get a whole new Pimlico.
01:07:22They think it's going to be open for the 2027 Preakness.
01:07:26The 25 Preakness will be run at the current Pimlico.
01:07:302026 Preakness run at Laurel.
01:07:33They hope to be back at Pimlico
01:07:34with the brand new Grandstand 2027.
01:07:36There was two things that I picked up from my interview
01:07:39with Corey Johnson I think are pretty important.
01:07:41Number one is he's saying,
01:07:43we've got to cut back on the number of days.
01:07:46And this has been a bone of contention
01:07:49with management and the horsemen
01:07:52because management has been saying we need fewer days.
01:07:55That's makes it more economically possible.
01:07:58And also he brought up something
01:07:59that you don't hear a lot more.
01:08:00And this is, I think,
01:08:02is something that much more racetracks
01:08:04really ought to look into.
01:08:06A circuit.
01:08:07How about a Maryland-Delaware Park circuit
01:08:11where Delaware Park could run in June, July, and August,
01:08:14Maryland could run the rest of the year.
01:08:15The purses would be great at both tracks.
01:08:17Horsemen would be able to go back and forth
01:08:19to the two places.
01:08:21So I think there's a lot of topics
01:08:23and there's a lot of things out there.
01:08:24But my main focus on this,
01:08:29the main thing that I learned from this
01:08:30is I think the thing is going to be much better
01:08:32in the future in Maryland racing,
01:08:33especially getting rid of that terrible Grandstand
01:08:36at Pimlico.
01:08:39And I know Corey,
01:08:40he is a super smart guy with skin in the game.
01:08:43So he knows the game.
01:08:45He knows the horsemen.
01:08:46He knows how it works.
01:08:47He's been in and out of Maryland a bunch of times
01:08:51organizing pretty much everything from the floor up.
01:08:54So he knows how to start a racetrack.
01:08:56Look what he did with Kentucky Downs.
01:08:58He is a super smart, super savvy guy who,
01:09:02you know, he's a breeder.
01:09:03He's got lots of horses, CJ Thoroughbreds.
01:09:06Now he's got to step back from part ownership
01:09:10of CJ Thoroughbreds because it's a conflict of interest.
01:09:13This is how much he believes in this project
01:09:15that he's going to leave his thoroughbred organization
01:09:18and go full in with the Maryland,
01:09:22with the state of Maryland to try and revitalize Pimlico.
01:09:25So that's fabulous.
01:09:27The training center, wherever it's going to be,
01:09:29apparently is already in the works,
01:09:31but everyone's kind of kept mum on that right now.
01:09:34It can only be good having Corey Johnson
01:09:37kind of a man of the people ahead of the game.
01:09:40He's...
01:09:42Yeah, go ahead, Randy.
01:09:43No, no, I was gonna let you finish.
01:09:46Importantly to this whole equation,
01:09:49Corey has intimate knowledge and experience
01:09:53with what expanded gaming does
01:09:56and what the lack of it does to racetracks.
01:10:00I mean, he basically was involved in Lone Star Park
01:10:03from the ground up.
01:10:05He was instrumental along with Steve Sexton
01:10:08in getting the Breeders' Cup to Lone Star Park
01:10:10back in, what was it, 2004?
01:10:13And Lone Star is now...
01:10:16All Texas racing is basically dying on the vine
01:10:19without any expanded forms of gaming.
01:10:22And then Corey went from Lone Star to Kentucky Downs
01:10:25where, I mean, it's the poster child almost
01:10:28in American racing for what casino gambling,
01:10:31historical horse racing machines, et cetera, et cetera,
01:10:34can do for a racetrack and its purses.
01:10:37So Corey has seen both sides.
01:10:39And now whether, you know,
01:10:42how much that will impact the political realities
01:10:46in Maryland of trying to get expanded gaming,
01:10:50you know, at Pimlico and to benefit Maryland racing
01:10:53remains to be seen.
01:10:54But Corey definitely knows how vitally important it is
01:10:59in today's horse racing economy.
01:11:02A couple of things I'd like to add to that.
01:11:04I asked Corey for my TDN interview, that very question,
01:11:07and he said, basically I'm paraphrasing it,
01:11:09who wouldn't want to have slot machines or HHR machines,
01:11:13but says there's no plans in the offing right now
01:11:17and we want Maryland racing to be able to stand on its own.
01:11:21So that was his take on that.
01:11:22But, you know, we're gonna lose all these great memories
01:11:24of our times at Pimlico.
01:11:26One of my favorite was whatever year,
01:11:29Elliot Walden was still a trainer.
01:11:32He was training Menifee
01:11:32coming into the second leg of the Triple Crown.
01:11:34And I was interviewing Elliot,
01:11:36just me and him on the backstretch at Pimlico.
01:11:39A rat bigger than Zoe ran right in between the two of us
01:11:44in the middle of the interview.
01:11:46It's like, okay, I must be at Pimlico.
01:11:49Do you guys remember?
01:11:50Horseman, yeah.
01:11:53Do you guys remember Kegasus?
01:11:55Oh yes, of course.
01:11:57Half man, half keg.
01:12:01Yeah, he didn't last very long, but he was fabulous.
01:12:05Yeah, I spent a lot of time with Kegasus
01:12:08one year at Pimlico.
01:12:09Yeah, interviewing him, it was great.
01:12:12Great TV.
01:12:13Oh, before we go guys,
01:12:15we have not mentioned the Chosen Vron.
01:12:18How awesome-
01:12:19Yes, very good.
01:12:20On Saturday.
01:12:21I mean, he's won 18 races, 17 of them stakes
01:12:24and he just keeps winning and winning and winning.
01:12:27He is sensational, is he not?
01:12:29The coolest horse in training.
01:12:31Oh yeah, he is, really.
01:12:32I mean, you guys know I have a lot of favorite horses,
01:12:35right?
01:12:36Well, the Chosen Vron-
01:12:37Oh yes, you do.
01:12:37You gotta like the Chosen Vron.
01:12:39I mean, he's just like, he wins everything in sight.
01:12:41It's unbelievable.
01:12:43What's that, Zoe?
01:12:43About 14 of favorite horses, Randy?
01:12:46Yes, that's about right.
01:12:47That's about right.
01:12:48And it's current, that's current horses.
01:12:51Right.
01:12:51You might have a run for your money with Adair Manor now
01:12:54because you know who had his picture snapped at the barn
01:12:57who was here on Saturday was none other than Mario Lopez
01:13:02and his cute little dimples came out to the track.
01:13:05He even got to get up close and personal with Adair Manor
01:13:09and hold out with the shank.
01:13:11Yeah, it was great, actually,
01:13:12because he was tweeting on his social media
01:13:14and saying what a great time he had at Santa Anita,
01:13:17which is what we need more of.
01:13:18But yeah, so he got his picture with Adair Manor.
01:13:21Now it's your turn, Randy.
01:13:23The XBTV Work of the Week is Fierceness,
01:13:26who had his first work back on Friday at Saratoga
01:13:29since finishing 15th in the Kentucky Derby.
01:13:32Fierceness worked over the Oklahoma training track
01:13:35in 50 seconds flat.
01:13:37This is him on the outside with his regular exercise rider,
01:13:40a good friend of mine and fellow ex-English person,
01:13:44Danny Wright in the saddle.
01:13:46Mindframe is on the inside and they just work head and head
01:13:49and gallop around the track.
01:13:51Fierceness, of course, is headed to the June 8th Belmont Stakes
01:13:54at Saratoga.
01:14:22All the thrills.
01:14:26Fraction of the bills.
01:14:31Experience the power of the partnership.
01:14:36Change your life.
01:14:37Make new friends.
01:14:38And compete at the highest level.
01:14:40The XBTV Work of the Week.
01:14:51West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:14:52The gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:14:54Visit WestPointTV.com.
01:14:55The TD and Riders Room also brought to you by West Point
01:14:58Thoroughbreds.
01:14:59Last week we told you that West Point's Atomic Blonde would be
01:15:02rematched with Chop Chop in last Saturday's Kirtana Stakes
01:15:05at Churchill Downs.
01:15:06Well, the German bred Atomic Blonde turned the tables on the
01:15:09three to five.
01:15:10Chop Chop to win by half length.
01:15:12And Volt, the German bred Atomic Blonde,
01:15:14turned the tables on the three to five.
01:15:16Chop Chop to win by half length.
01:15:19And Volt, her West Point partners,
01:15:21into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:15:23And this weekend it is Stephen Foster Preview Day,
01:15:26Saturday at Churchill Downs.
01:15:28Six stakes, including four graded stakes.
01:15:30And West Point will be in action with Northern Invader.
01:15:33He runs in the grade three Arlington Stakes.
01:15:36And also with Cugino in the Audubon Stakes.
01:15:39To learn more, visit WestPointTV.com.
01:15:49Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:15:51I want to thank my partners, Zoe Cadman and Randy Moss.
01:15:54And a new member of the team, Emma Berry,
01:15:56from the foreign edition of the TDN.
01:15:58She gave us a lot of information on the Epson Derby coming up.
01:16:01And also the people that do such a good job for us behind the
01:16:04scenes, our editors and our producers,
01:16:06Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca,
01:16:08and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:16:09That's a wrap on this week's TDN Writer's Room podcast.
01:16:12Thanks for tuning us in.

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