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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28It's February 22nd at 1.14 p.m. in the East Coast and welcome to another edition of the
00:00:34TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:35I'm Bill Finley.
00:00:36I'm a correspondent for the TDN and I also co-host the Down the Stretch Show every Saturday
00:00:41morning from 10 to 1 Eastern on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:43Hi Bill, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports, normally in my home office, but here as you can see
00:00:49I'm in an airport.
00:00:50I'm told this is the first time the podcast, a podcast host, co-host has ever originated
00:00:56from an airport.
00:00:57I'm in Atlanta on my way to Hot Springs for the Rebel Six this weekend.
00:01:02Well delighted to have you here Randy, Zoe Cabman here working for XBTV and First Racing
00:01:07along with Santa Anita and I'm here at home.
00:01:10I'm sure we're probably going to have the gardeners come in the back gate in just a
00:01:14moment and Doodle's going to bark so all is good in the world.
00:01:18Yeah we have no Lucy today because she's obviously not at the airport with Randy so Doodle will
00:01:22carry the flag of our TDN Writer's Room mascot for this week.
00:01:26Okay guys, let's get into last weekend's racing and two big races at the fairgrounds,
00:01:31one for the girls, one for the boys.
00:01:33The Risen Star stakes for the horses eyeing the Kentucky Derby, but I generally thought
00:01:38the Rachel Alexandra was the bigger story of the two because of Hoosier Philly and we
00:01:43all know the background.
00:01:45We had Tom Amos on last week and he was just raving about this horse.
00:01:49There was an awful lot of hype.
00:01:51She looked really, really good in her races last year and we were even speculating that
00:01:57maybe she would become a Kentucky Derby candidate after presumably winning the Rachel Alexandra
00:02:03and maybe going on to the Louisiana Derby.
00:02:06None of that happened.
00:02:08You know, I'm looking to find any excuses for I can't find any.
00:02:12She was third beaten eight and a half lengths.
00:02:15She got a 70 buyer figure in there.
00:02:18I talked to Tom this morning and he mentioned a little bit about some problems she had.
00:02:22He said three or four strides into the race, the ground kind of broke out underneath her
00:02:26and she stumbled a little bit, but that's not a serious excuse.
00:02:30He's scratching his head.
00:02:31He doesn't know what to think.
00:02:33He's not even committing to her next race yet.
00:02:35So you know, it's tough because when we build these horses up like we did and I think with
00:02:41justification it leaves sort of a hollow feeling when they throw in a clinker like that, Randy.
00:02:47Yeah, Bill.
00:02:48I mean, look, I thought that she had an excuse.
00:02:53Now whether it's enough of an excuse to warrant a performance like that, that is debatable.
00:02:59But when the ground broke out from underneath her at the start, it put her behind horses
00:03:04and they were going pretty slowly up front and she was crying to run and kept having
00:03:08to be restrained, restrained, restrained.
00:03:11And after a while with a lot of horses, especially free running horses like Hoosier Philly can
00:03:15discourage them a little bit.
00:03:17Now when she got to the top of the stretch and she got clear and she rolled up on the
00:03:21outside, I said, okay, here we go.
00:03:23And then she came up empty in the stretch.
00:03:25But I think the reality, as you mentioned, the 70 by her speed figure, the winner pretty
00:03:30mischievous got an 83.
00:03:32I think we all expected that Hoosier Philly could certainly top an 83 by her speed figure.
00:03:39So given the way she was training and given the start and all that what happened in between,
00:03:46I'm not a big fan of what trainers like to say, draw a line through it.
00:03:49And you can't just draw a line through something that happened.
00:03:53But I think she'll bounce back.
00:03:55And I think she'll probably come back and win the fairgrounds.
00:03:58Is she as good as we thought she was?
00:04:01Maybe not.
00:04:02You know, the criticism was that the speed figures never really matched the hype.
00:04:09And maybe she's not quite as good as we thought.
00:04:11But I don't think that race is representative at all of her ability.
00:04:16All right.
00:04:17Well, we're kind of missing the winner here.
00:04:19Let's not take anything away from pretty mischievous who did win it.
00:04:23And she's on her way to the Kentucky Oaks for trainer Brendan Walsh and the Dolphin.
00:04:27And that was a gutsy, hard-fought win over Miracle, who's the daughter of Mendelsohn,
00:04:33who I actually thought she ran better than I ever thought she would.
00:04:36I've always liked this Philly Miracle.
00:04:38So I think the top two are about even moving forward.
00:04:43As far as who's your Philly, if you spoke to Tom and he didn't announce that there was
00:04:47any problem, I wondered maybe if she hurt herself a little bit leaving the gate.
00:04:53And Tom has not alluded to that fact whatsoever.
00:04:56What I took from the race is that she ran like a short horse.
00:05:00She was loaded until she got to the stretch.
00:05:03And she just folded like a cheap suit, basically.
00:05:07If you look at the work pattern, we mentioned this on last week's show, she had three works.
00:05:12I thought they were good enough and sensational, but they were three works.
00:05:16The first one coming on January the 28th, and then two more after that.
00:05:21Is that enough?
00:05:22I don't know how she gallops.
00:05:24I don't know how she was training at Woodford.
00:05:27There's no other recorded works.
00:05:29Perhaps she was a short horse and maybe Tom's kicking himself for that.
00:05:34So I'm yet to draw a line through her for that, but she's going to have to improve markedly.
00:05:41And if she did quarter up and pull up like a tired horse, then I think she will.
00:05:46But I mean, the story right here is pretty mischievous, getting a win.
00:05:49I want to get your opinion on something Randy said, are we, and by we, I mean the three
00:05:55of us, most of the media and Tom Amos himself, because, you know, a lot of what was going
00:06:02on here was, you know, people are, wow, Tom Amos, he's this great trainer.
00:06:05I like how he's talking about the horse.
00:06:07Were we getting carried away with ourselves?
00:06:11We're all guilty of that at any time.
00:06:12I mean, that's just, that's just how people are.
00:06:16They get excited.
00:06:17You see an undefeated filly.
00:06:18The good thing now is that she's not undefeated and now you can just go on at your own pace
00:06:23and you don't have to worry about keeping a horse undefeated.
00:06:27You can talk to any trainer.
00:06:29If you are running an undefeated horse, the pressure is on.
00:06:33Once they get beat, that's plain sailing from there.
00:06:35They've been beaten.
00:06:36They can get beat again.
00:06:37Every horse gets beat eventually, well, most of them anyway.
00:06:42The jury's still out on how good she is.
00:06:43If she comes back in the Fairgrounds Oaks, we'll get a pretty good line right there.
00:06:47It reminds me a little bit, it's different circumstances, but four years ago, Tom had
00:06:52another three-year-old filly who was even a heavier favorite than Hoosier filly.
00:06:56Serengeti Empress in the Fairgrounds Oaks was one to five.
00:07:00She was actually three to 10, finished last.
00:07:03As it turns out, she had a bleeding episode, which is, you know, Hoosier filly doesn't
00:07:07have that excuse that we know of.
00:07:10And she bounced back in her next start and won the Kentucky Oaks in a bit of a mild upset.
00:07:14So I think, you know, the final verdict is yet to be reached on exactly how good Hoosier
00:07:19filly is.
00:07:20Yeah.
00:07:21And we will find out.
00:07:22And again, I talked to Tom this morning in preparation for the show.
00:07:25He's not even committing yet to the Fairgrounds Oaks.
00:07:28So I imagine that's probably where she will run next.
00:07:31But you know, he's now, you know, putting the brakes on this, you know, let's take our
00:07:34time here.
00:07:35Let's talk to the owners.
00:07:36Let's see how she trains before, you know, we take the next step.
00:07:39Okay.
00:07:40The Risen star states on the same card.
00:07:42My first observation is the Fairgrounds needs to invest some money in better lights for
00:07:46one thing.
00:07:47I mean, that was, yeah, they pretty much ran that race in the dark.
00:07:52Now we're going to talk to Brad Cox a little bit later in this morning's podcast.
00:07:56He's the green group of guests of the week, but it was the Brad Cox show again with him
00:08:01winning with Angel of Empire.
00:08:03But one thing that to me was so notable and I brought up to Brad was flip flop the odds
00:08:10and that's how they finished.
00:08:11The favorite was Cox's victory formation.
00:08:14He was ninth.
00:08:15Tappet's conquest was the second choice among Cox's horses at five to one.
00:08:20He finished fourth.
00:08:21And Angel of Empire, when do you ever get 13 to one on Brad Cox in a race at the Fairgrounds
00:08:25Angel of Empire won the race.
00:08:28Randy, again, the buyer number.
00:08:29And again, I understand it's not always the total story, but kind of an 87.
00:08:37You know, to be honest, I mean, right now, Cox could put Fred the stable pony into the
00:08:42starting gate and he'd probably win one of these races.
00:08:44So I'm not going to discount anything out of Brad Cox's barn, but I think there are
00:08:49certainly better out there than Angel of Empire, including horses in Cox's own barn.
00:08:53Yeah.
00:08:55We know Angel of Empire is doing well.
00:08:57We know that the distance is not going to be a problem.
00:09:01He looks suited, you know, for as long as they want to run.
00:09:04We know he's on the improve.
00:09:07But the reality is that if the Kentucky Derby were run this weekend, he'd be in the neighborhood
00:09:11of 20 to one and maybe even as high as 30 to one.
00:09:14The race pretty much fell apart at the end.
00:09:16They went the last three eighths of a mile in almost 40 seconds.
00:09:21We talked about how fast the pace was likely to be.
00:09:25The race shape was such that any of the horses close to the front finished near the back.
00:09:31And Angel of Empire and the runner up and the third, you know, they all came from fairly
00:09:38far back in the pack.
00:09:39Two fills wasn't that far back, but it was a race shape where the further back you were
00:09:44almost the better you were going to be in the end.
00:09:47I actually thought Tapit's Conquest, the fourth place finisher, was the best horse
00:09:51in there after the fact.
00:09:53He was five to six wide all the way around the second turn and was still trying to run
00:09:57down the lane.
00:09:58So I think Tapit's Conquest is a horse to watch out for in the Louisiana Derby if that's
00:10:02where he winds up.
00:10:04But I'll be surprised if any of these horses go on and make a lot of noise in the Kentucky
00:10:09Derby.
00:10:10And watching the race, it seemed like nobody wanted to win at the eighth pole.
00:10:13They were just trading places.
00:10:16And the thing that really amazed me was Brad Cox is winning at 45 percent.
00:10:21When he teams up with Luis Saez, they win at about the same.
00:10:24And this horse paid $29.40.
00:10:29Now I heard Joe Christofak, who works for the fairgrounds down there, he actually liked
00:10:32this horse and he touted him earlier on the week.
00:10:35So good for you, Joe.
00:10:37But $29.40 for Saez Cox, horse in a graded stake, that is basically unheard of.
00:10:44And then I was thinking, well, let me look up and see the past winners of the Risen Star,
00:10:50you know, how they move on and go on to the Derby or other races.
00:10:53And it actually surprised me.
00:10:54It's good.
00:10:55So we've got Angel of Empire for this year, Epicenter.
00:10:58He needs no introduction.
00:10:59Mandaloon, who, of course, won the Kentucky Derby, Mr. Monomoy and Monomist.
00:11:06That's when the race was split.
00:11:07War of Will, Bravazo, Girvin, and then Gunrunner in 2016.
00:11:13So some good horses have come out of this race, not necessarily to go on to win the
00:11:18Derby, but there will be some good horses that come out.
00:11:21So I was pleasantly surprised to see that.
00:11:25This is how good Amit Cox is having at the fairgrounds.
00:11:28He won the race and it lowered his win percentage because 33% in the race as the only outcome,
00:11:36the only favorable outcome he could have, and he's winning 43% or so going into there.
00:11:42And he's doing well at Oaklawn, but not nearly as well at fairgrounds.
00:11:45What he's doing there is absolutely unbelievable.
00:11:48The other really big race of the weekend was the Razorback at Oaklawn Park.
00:11:51And every time Wayne Lucas wins a race like this, you got to have a big smile on your
00:11:55face.
00:11:56He wins it with Last Samurai, who was coming back in three weeks after running fourth in
00:12:00the Pegasus World Cup.
00:12:02He's 87 years old.
00:12:04Christian Torres, who's riding great at Oaklawn Park as a leading rider there, was his first
00:12:08ever graded stakes winner.
00:12:09And how about this?
00:12:11I'm getting way ahead of myself.
00:12:12But how about this first scenario?
00:12:13Wayne Lucas will turn 88 on the day of the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:12:17How about Last Samurai winning the Jockey Club Gold Cup at Saratoga for Lucas?
00:12:21Fairytale stuff?
00:12:22Yeah, perhaps.
00:12:23But right now, there is so many fairytale stories to come with the trainer who needs
00:12:30no introduction and still at this age is doing it at the highest level.
00:12:35He doesn't get 25 of these like Brad Cox and Todd Fletcher do, but he proved that he
00:12:40can make the best of a good horse and win a big race like this.
00:12:44Yeah, Bill.
00:12:45And Wayne will be the first to admit that he likes to dance all the dances, right?
00:12:49He'll run sometimes and you're kind of thinking to yourself, you know, why is he coming back
00:12:52here so quickly?
00:12:54And the thing about Last Samurai, it's not just that he ran three weeks earlier in the
00:13:00Pegasus World Cup.
00:13:01He ran a, you know, creditable fourth.
00:13:04Wayne put him on a van and vanned him 1,200 miles to Gulfstream and then 1,200 miles back
00:13:12and then ran him three weeks later to boot.
00:13:16And he admits it's old school, but it worked.
00:13:18And kudos to the coach.
00:13:21It'll be tough to be in Wayne's barn.
00:13:23You have to be tough.
00:13:25And some horses thrive on it.
00:13:27I mean, we saw Secret Oath.
00:13:28She thrived on it.
00:13:30This guy is obviously thriving on it.
00:13:32Dwayne Lucas himself thrives on it.
00:13:354,892 wins to date for Dwayne Lucas, the Hall of Famer.
00:13:41Just truly remarkable.
00:13:43And he's just an old softie now.
00:13:44You know, he's a guy everyone wants to love.
00:13:4520 years ago, everyone wanted to hate him.
00:13:48But now he's in his 80s.
00:13:49Everybody loves him.
00:13:50They love his wife, Laurie.
00:13:51She's awesome as well.
00:13:54And he's been good for the game.
00:13:55He's been outspoken and now he's an advocate, which is really cool.
00:14:01So those were the major races of the weekend.
00:14:03Or am I forgetting something, Zoe?
00:14:05Oh, of course you're forgetting something.
00:14:08What's wrong with you?
00:14:09It was the Winter Nationals at Santa Anita.
00:14:13When I'm talking Winter Nationals, I'm talking corgis.
00:14:16We had over 5,000 people come out to watch the corgis.
00:14:20They had heats every 20 minutes out there on the infield.
00:14:23I pegged it early.
00:14:25Last year's runner up was a corgi called Emmett.
00:14:28Loves the track.
00:14:29He loves the going.
00:14:31He handles the dirt course very well at Santa Anita Park.
00:14:35And he came flying.
00:14:36He won his heat by 10.
00:14:37That was on the grass.
00:14:38Turf or dirt, he can do it all.
00:14:39Emmett was the winner of the Corgi Winter Nationals and it really was a great day.
00:14:44They'll be back on Memorial Day weekend as well at Santa Anita.
00:14:48Well, congratulations to Emmett and congratulations to Zoe Catman for picking the winner.
00:14:52Versatile dog can run on turf or dirt.
00:14:55We like to see that in our corgis.
00:14:58The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:01Keeneland will re-offer six 2-year-olds previously purchased as yearlings at last year's September
00:15:07sale, all of which are currently training in Ocala.
00:15:11Offers will be accepted from Monday, February 27th to Wednesday, March 1st.
00:15:17Visit keeneland.com slash re-offer for full instructions and details.
00:15:22We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:15:29If this place could talk, it would roar.
00:15:36It would say, this is a racing.
00:15:40This beating heart in the heart of horse country.
00:15:44Steady and strong beneath the roar.
00:15:48Reminding us why.
00:15:50For the love of the horse.
00:15:52For generations to come.
00:15:57He was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.
00:16:00Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:16:02Tis the law, pops the cork and the champagne.
00:16:05Tis the law is going to win the first leg of the Triple Crown.
00:16:09I've never seen him get tired.
00:16:10Respect the law.
00:16:12Tis the law.
00:16:13His structure is just perfect.
00:16:15His bone is perfect.
00:16:17He's left the others behind.
00:16:18He's going to win the Run Happy Traverse.
00:16:20He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:16:27The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:16:30This past weekend, Classic Empire had a super Saturday
00:16:33when Angel of Empire scored the upset
00:16:36in the Grade 2 Risen Star Stakes at the fairgrounds.
00:16:39The three-year-old trained by Brad Cox
00:16:41heads next to the Louisiana Derby.
00:16:43That win came just a few hours after Classy Edition
00:16:47won the Grade 3 Royal Delta Stakes.
00:16:49In other news from Coolmore Stallions,
00:16:51Uncle Moe's highly regarded Bishop's Bay
00:16:54lived up to the hype at the fairgrounds,
00:16:56winning his debut to become trainer Brad Cox's
00:16:592000th winner.
00:17:00Well done, Brad.
00:17:01And at Aqueduct, Mendelsohn's three-year-old filly
00:17:03Amanda's Folly romped in her maiden win,
00:17:06giving Mendelsohn his 12th winner of the year.
00:17:09Best of all, second crop stallions.
00:17:11Well, the news off the track this week
00:17:13was more Bob Baffert stuff.
00:17:14And I know guys, we're all sick of talking about this.
00:17:16And, you know, and I think we're going to share
00:17:18the same sentiment.
00:17:19Let's all move on.
00:17:21But before, you know, we now have some finality
00:17:25to his situation for this year's Kentucky Derby.
00:17:28On Friday, his effort to get an injunction
00:17:31against Churchill Downs that would have allowed him
00:17:33to race his horses in the Kentucky Derby
00:17:35was shot down in court.
00:17:37He lost that court battle.
00:17:38And soon thereafter, the horses were on the move.
00:17:42The reincarnate is entered in this Saturday's Rebel
00:17:44with Tim Yakteen as the trainer.
00:17:46Bunch of horses were nominated to the Gotham Stakes
00:17:49with Yakteen listed as the trainer on three of them.
00:17:51And Brittany Russell named as the trainer on the fourth.
00:17:57I don't know for sure, but I imagine Arabian Night
00:18:00and the rest will probably be going
00:18:01to the Tim Yakteen barn as well.
00:18:04We are getting closer to the end of this nonsense,
00:18:06I suppose, but we now know the situation.
00:18:09You know, it is what it is.
00:18:10But I don't think the horses' chances are compromised
00:18:13in the Kentucky Derby.
00:18:15Tim Yakteen is a very good trainer.
00:18:17Bob Baffert's done all the heavy lifting.
00:18:19You know, for the owners who want to win the Derby,
00:18:22I can see why they're going forward with this.
00:18:23And this is the plan for Tim Yakteen,
00:18:26presumably to train most of these horses.
00:18:28We'll see what happens, Randy.
00:18:29Yeah, and Yakteen is, of course,
00:18:31a long-time former assistant to Baffert
00:18:33who knows the way Baffert trains his horses.
00:18:35And so he's got some level of familiarity
00:18:37with where these horses are at.
00:18:39And we talk about it because, I mean,
00:18:41this is a high-profile thing.
00:18:42I mean, you're talking Arabian Night,
00:18:44you're talking reincarnate,
00:18:45you're talking national treasure.
00:18:47You know, you're talking probably three
00:18:48or four other three-year-olds
00:18:50that are maybe laying in the weeds
00:18:52that could jump up and run a big race.
00:18:54So a lot of key contenders there
00:18:56that are going to be affected by this
00:18:57in one way or another,
00:18:58but probably not seriously, I agree with you.
00:19:01It's one of those cases where you're damned
00:19:03if you do and damned if you don't.
00:19:05We saw Tim Yakteen pick up Messier.
00:19:07He ran him in the Santa Anita Derby,
00:19:09ran him in the Kentucky Derby.
00:19:11Things didn't pan out,
00:19:12but are you going to turn down a horse
00:19:15that's one of the leading contenders
00:19:17for the Kentucky Derby just because of all this?
00:19:19No, you're going to take whatever's given to you
00:19:22and move along.
00:19:23And Tim is more than capable
00:19:24of handling whatever is thrown at him.
00:19:28Now, last year while this was going on,
00:19:30Baffert was also subsequently suspended
00:19:32by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission.
00:19:34So the horses moving forward
00:19:36throughout the Triple Crown,
00:19:37he was not able to train in those either.
00:19:39But again, presumably,
00:19:41if he were to win the Kentucky Derby,
00:19:43or Tim Yakteen,
00:19:44whoever were to win the Kentucky Derby
00:19:45with one of his horses this year,
00:19:47they would be back in the Baffert barn
00:19:49for the greatness in the remainder of the Triple Crown.
00:19:51So that's the latest on Bob Baffert.
00:19:53And we are finally, hopefully,
00:19:56getting to the end of this story
00:19:58that has not been fun for anybody.
00:20:01Well, it was a fun story.
00:20:03Steve Asmussen,
00:20:04I think sometimes we take for granted
00:20:06how good this guy is.
00:20:07And these numbers are just staggering.
00:20:09And on Monday at Oak Lawn Park,
00:20:12he won his 10,000th career race.
00:20:14And I was assigned to write about this.
00:20:17Lost 28 straight races after 999.
00:20:21It's like, come on, Steve,
00:20:22let's get this over with.
00:20:23But we knew this was coming, obviously.
00:20:28But the bigger picture,
00:20:30he's only 57 years old.
00:20:32And he's got many good years left for him.
00:20:36He's gonna get to 15, 16,000 easily.
00:20:40And also, I think he's setting records
00:20:42that will never be broken.
00:20:43First of all,
00:20:45there's never been another Steve Asmussen,
00:20:47a guy who has the potential horse of the year
00:20:49in his barn,
00:20:50and also has three maiden claimers
00:20:52running on the card at Sam Houston at once.
00:20:54I mean, he's got this insatiable thirst to win.
00:20:57But also, there's so much less racing now
00:21:01than there was even 10 years ago.
00:21:02It was not the opportunity
00:21:04to pile up these big numbers.
00:21:05So I think his other record in 2009
00:21:09were 650 wins,
00:21:11the most ever in a single year for a trainer.
00:21:13I think those are unbreakable records.
00:21:15And hats off to a guy
00:21:18who just, when it comes to winning,
00:21:19has no equal.
00:21:21Jerry Hollendorfer is second
00:21:22with 7,759 winners.
00:21:25And just by comparison,
00:21:27Todd Pletcher has 5,500 winners.
00:21:29So Steve Asmussen has 4,500 more winners
00:21:34than Todd Pletcher,
00:21:36which gives you some idea
00:21:38of just how good he is
00:21:40at getting to the winner's circle, Randy.
00:21:42Yeah, well, you know the old cliche, though.
00:21:43Records are made to be broken, right?
00:21:46I feel confident in saying
00:21:49that the three of us
00:21:51will never see those records be broken.
00:21:54If they are broken,
00:21:56it'll be after we are long gone.
00:21:59But really, the only horse racing record
00:22:02that I would go out on a limb
00:22:04and say will never be broken
00:22:05is Woody Stevens' five consecutive Belmont Stakes wins.
00:22:09Other than that,
00:22:10someday, somewhere,
00:22:12another trainer's gonna pop up
00:22:14and it wouldn't, of course, again, I'll be gone,
00:22:17but it's not shocking now
00:22:18to think about another Steve Asmussen
00:22:19coming up at some point in the future.
00:22:21But man, I mean,
00:22:22what an unbelievable accomplishment that is.
00:22:25And it's been a family affair all along.
00:22:28You know, he was raised in Texas.
00:22:30His parents, Keith and Marilyn,
00:22:32he was a jockey at 16.
00:22:34He was basically born into the sport
00:22:36and his kids have joined him.
00:22:38You know, I can remember
00:22:39being at the fairgrounds in the late 90s
00:22:41and he just had a small barn in the corner.
00:22:43I was clipping horses for him.
00:22:45Scott Blasey was galloping.
00:22:46Darren Fleming was galloping.
00:22:48And that was it.
00:22:48He had about 15 horses.
00:22:50So he's just come on in leaps and bounds
00:22:54and kudos to his assistants,
00:22:56his hop walkers,
00:22:57the whole team that goes together.
00:23:00And now his son, Keith,
00:23:01is riding and working closely with him.
00:23:03It really is a family affair.
00:23:05And one thing that shouldn't get lost in all of this,
00:23:08you mentioned the amount of wins,
00:23:10obviously 10,000,
00:23:11Todd Pletcher 5,500.
00:23:13But Asmussen has started almost twice
00:23:16as many horses as Todd Pletcher.
00:23:1849,213 going into today, Wednesday,
00:23:23compared to Todd's 24,821.
00:23:27So double the amount of horses he's entered,
00:23:30double the amount of wins.
00:23:31He's winning at a lifetime 20%.
00:23:34Todd Pletcher's winning at a lifetime 23%.
00:23:36So he's starting twice as many horses.
00:23:38He's winning twice as many races.
00:23:40And that is what Todd does.
00:23:41But guys, he's also an owner.
00:23:44If you look up his stats
00:23:46and how many horses he's claimed
00:23:48in the past couple of years,
00:23:49it's amazing.
00:23:50He has run over 1,300 races.
00:23:54No, 1,300 wins as an owner.
00:23:571,337 purses, over $22 million.
00:24:03So if you think he's won 10,000 races,
00:24:061,300 of those were for himself.
00:24:09Steve Asmussen, owner, trainer.
00:24:11That's a pretty cool stat.
00:24:13You know, one of the things, obviously,
00:24:14that makes Steve what he is
00:24:16is not just horsemanship,
00:24:18but it's his ability to put horses
00:24:21in the right spots to win races.
00:24:24And in order to do that,
00:24:26you've got to have a pretty objective opinion
00:24:30of your own horses.
00:24:32One of the things that Jerry Bailey and I like to do
00:24:35when we're covering a major race,
00:24:37at any racetrack where Steve Asmussen is at,
00:24:39even if he doesn't have a horse in that race,
00:24:42is go to Steve and say,
00:24:44you've been watching these horses in the morning.
00:24:45What do you think about these horses?
00:24:48And he'll give you an unvarnished opinion
00:24:50and a damn accurate opinion.
00:24:52And when he does have a horse in the race,
00:24:54he'll tell you off the record,
00:24:56eh, I don't think this horse has much of a shot.
00:25:00And he's almost always right.
00:25:01But he's got a very good opinion
00:25:03about his own horses and where to place them.
00:25:06Well, guys, this week is a new segment
00:25:08on the TDN Writer's Room
00:25:10called First Things First at Santa Anita.
00:25:14And we're going to do this every week
00:25:15and try and have some fun.
00:25:17I've got some very special guests lined up for this.
00:25:23First Things First presented by Santa Anita.
00:25:26And I'm here with two of my favorite jockeys,
00:25:29Frankie Dottore and Hall of Famer Mike Smith here.
00:25:33And guys, we're going to Saudi, right?
00:25:35We're going to Saudi, yeah.
00:25:36We're going to Saudi.
00:25:37You're wearing the same colors.
00:25:38Yes, and we're in the same race.
00:25:40I'm not sure.
00:25:43You guys have both ridden there before.
00:25:44Mike, it's cost you money a couple of times
00:25:46when you've ridden there before.
00:25:48Tell me about your chances going forward with Tabor.
00:25:52First of all, I plan on being a very good boy.
00:25:54Okay.
00:25:54I'm going to abide by the rules.
00:25:56And he's training extremely well.
00:25:58He's a very, very talented horse.
00:26:01A mile late, one turn, should be right up his alley.
00:26:05Given the opportunity, he should run very well.
00:26:08What about you?
00:26:09You're both riding for the same guy.
00:26:10And as Bob basically said,
00:26:11he's taking the two oldest guys in the room.
00:26:13Well, he's right, right?
00:26:15That's how good he is.
00:26:18You got that right, that fact right.
00:26:19Yes, country grandma.
00:26:20Yeah, I was second last year.
00:26:22Solid horse.
00:26:23Does not know how to run a bad race.
00:26:26Oh, obviously he's a little bit older than Tabor,
00:26:29but you know, he's sort of going to ride his usual race.
00:26:32So I'm expecting a good run.
00:26:34These are two kinds of horses where you have to pedal.
00:26:37We've seen Tabor working.
00:26:39He only goes as fast as you ride him.
00:26:41Country grandma, pretty much the same thing.
00:26:42You guys fit enough to get rolling?
00:26:45We should be.
00:26:47We are.
00:26:4840 years, we're probably close to 100 between us
00:26:53of doing this day in and day out.
00:26:55And look, he's in better shape right now
00:26:57than I think he's ever been.
00:26:59He's riding like a 20-year-old right now.
00:27:01Four races yesterday?
00:27:02Four yesterday, and I'm just standing.
00:27:03I'm lucky because Mike was out of town.
00:27:05So it's a bit easier for me.
00:27:08I'm staying as fit as can be.
00:27:09So we're both ready and made the best horse to win.
00:27:11Look, there's going to be 12 others in there
00:27:14that are going to be very, very tough.
00:27:15It's not going to be a give me, you know what I mean?
00:27:17It's going to be a very tough competition.
00:27:20Let's hope we get a decent draw
00:27:21and let's hope the rest of the ship well,
00:27:24because they're going half way around the world.
00:27:25So it's not just around the corner.
00:27:27So we're just fingers crossed that they're in good health.
00:27:30Guys, wishing you both.
00:27:32The best of luck.
00:27:35Should we do some push-ups?
00:27:37I'm still getting used to this.
00:27:37Should we do some push-ups?
00:27:38No, I might not get up.
00:27:46The Classic Meet continues with Big Cap Day
00:27:49at Santa Anita Park on the first Saturday,
00:27:51Saturday, March the 4th.
00:27:53There's a mandatory payout.
00:27:54The pick six jackpot pool must pay out
00:27:57on Big Cap Day, March the 4th.
00:27:59The pool is estimated to reach $3 million.
00:28:03Play in the live money,
00:28:04$3,500 Ultimate Betting Challenge,
00:28:07featuring thousands in prizes.
00:28:09Register at expressbet.com slash tournaments.
00:28:13The TD and Writer's Room is brought to you by the PHBA.
00:28:16If you want to recoup your initial outlay fast,
00:28:18even if you spend time in an airport like me,
00:28:20a Pennsylvania Bread or Pennsylvania Sired
00:28:22Pennsylvania Bread is the way to go.
00:28:25Last week, we told you about Pennsylvania Bread
00:28:27chased the chaos, winning the El Camino Royale Derby.
00:28:30Now, another Pennsylvania Bread three-year-old
00:28:32has won a big race on the road to the Triple Crown.
00:28:34Yes, Angel of Empire, the Risen Star upset winner,
00:28:38bread in Pennsylvania by Forgotten Land Investment
00:28:41and Black Diamond Equine,
00:28:42then bought at Keeneland September
00:28:44by the Albaw Family Stables.
00:28:46Brad Cox said, all the big 100-point major prep races
00:28:49coming up are in the conversation,
00:28:53is the way he put it for Angel of Empire,
00:28:55but the Louisiana Derby, March 25th, a logical next spot.
00:28:59Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program,
00:29:02the best in North America,
00:29:03but we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:29:06The PA Horse Breeders Association
00:29:08is funding cutting-edge research at PenVet
00:29:11to detect gene doping in thoroughbreds,
00:29:13and we endorsed the SAFE Act
00:29:15to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:29:18Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs
00:29:21set up by our horseman's groups.
00:29:22Just a few of the reasons why
00:29:24you should join us in Pennsylvania,
00:29:26the premier place to breed and race.
00:29:29The fastest horse of the week is brought to you
00:29:31by the fast stallions at Windstar Farms,
00:29:34such as the stallion Elliot Walden,
00:29:37once said was one of the fastest racehorses
00:29:39Windstar ever had.
00:29:40Which stallion is that?
00:29:42First, the fastest horse of the week.
00:29:45No surprise, it is Last Samurai.
00:29:47We told you about his Razorback handicap
00:29:49in which he mowed down Wes Willpower from off the base.
00:29:53Well, he earned a week-high buyer in that race of 105.
00:29:58Wayne Lucas had previously won the Razorback.
00:30:01Guess when?
00:30:021985, 38 years earlier was Wayne's first win
00:30:07in the Razorback.
00:30:09Last Samurai is owned by Kevin Horton and family
00:30:12who are continuing with the Willis Horton Racing Stable
00:30:16after the death last October
00:30:17of the prominent Arkansas owner.
00:30:19Last Samurai bred by Stone Street
00:30:22is a five-year-old by Malibu Moon
00:30:24out of a first Samurai mare.
00:30:27Now, who is that fast sire at Windstar?
00:30:30As a three-year-old in 2020,
00:30:32Nashville flew up the charts with a bullet
00:30:34by winning his first three starts
00:30:36by a combined 24 and three quarters lengths.
00:30:40The third of which was a win in the Perryville
00:30:43on the Breeders' Cup undercard
00:30:44in which he set a Keeneland track record
00:30:46for six furlongs, 107.89, that not only still stands,
00:30:50but it would have won the last two Breeders' Cup sprints
00:30:54by a wide margin.
00:30:56If speed is key, then Nashville has plenty to share
00:31:00standing his first year at Windstar for a fee of $15,000.
00:31:07The Green Group is an accounting
00:31:08and tax consulting advisory firm
00:31:10specializing in the thoroughbred industry
00:31:11with over 500 clients in the horse business
00:31:14and proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:31:16You can learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:31:20And we welcome in now this week's
00:31:22Green Group Guest of the Week, Brad Cox,
00:31:24another Saturday in racing
00:31:26and another big afternoon for the Cox stable.
00:31:29In the Risen Star Stakes, Brad,
00:31:31you ran three horses, Victory Formation,
00:31:33Tappets Conquest, Angel of Empire.
00:31:36Victory, excuse me, Victory Formation was the favorite.
00:31:40Tappets Conquest was five to one
00:31:41and Angel of Empire was 13 to one,
00:31:44yet they flip-flopped according to the odds
00:31:46so far as how the race was run
00:31:48with Angel of Empire winning the 13 to one.
00:31:51Not surprised that you won the race,
00:31:53but maybe were you a little bit surprised
00:31:55with the outcome of your three horses?
00:31:58Honestly, maybe a little bit,
00:31:59but we expected all three to run well.
00:32:01I know I kind of have to say that,
00:32:02but honestly, I really did expect all three to run well.
00:32:06We really liked this Angel of Empire.
00:32:09We always knew the further, the better for him.
00:32:12I mean, he's a beautiful colt.
00:32:13He's got plenty of leg underneath of him.
00:32:15He's got a good stride.
00:32:16He's not the fastest horse,
00:32:17which I think he kind of showed that,
00:32:19but as the distances get longer, he'll get better
00:32:22and he each Saturday improved that.
00:32:24So Brad, this has been like a running narrative
00:32:27on the TDN podcast every week
00:32:29about all the three-year-olds you have in your stable.
00:32:31I mean, you talk about embarrassment of riches
00:32:33and right now in the top 20 point totals
00:32:36for the Kentucky Derby,
00:32:37you have six of the top 20,
00:32:39including numbers one and three,
00:32:41but let's look ahead to the Rebel
00:32:43coming up on Saturday at Oak Lawn
00:32:44with Verifying and Giant Mischief.
00:32:47Kind of give us a scouting report on those two.
00:32:50First of all, how do you feel about the draw,
00:32:52about post one for Verifying?
00:32:56Listen, I think he can handle it
00:32:57because I think he's a very good horse.
00:32:59You know, he showed the ability to set close to a pace
00:33:01last time there at Oak Lawn.
00:33:03I think they went to half in 47
00:33:05and he was right there sitting off of it.
00:33:07So I think the fractions will be similar,
00:33:09maybe even quicker.
00:33:10I don't expect him necessarily to be on the lead,
00:33:12but somewhat forwardly placed,
00:33:14good stocking position.
00:33:15And if he runs as well as he's training,
00:33:17I think he's gonna be right there.
00:33:18He's a good colt.
00:33:20Giant Mischief, very good colt.
00:33:25You know, listen, he just kind of took a step back
00:33:30at the start in the Remington race.
00:33:33Thought he was loaded, ready to roll that night.
00:33:36I thought he ran a winning race, obviously,
00:33:37just didn't get away well.
00:33:39Big middle move, kind of flat,
00:33:40maybe just a little bit late in the winter,
00:33:41had an inside trip.
00:33:42So listen, he's a good colt.
00:33:44This was by design to give him a little time after that race.
00:33:47He had three good runs at two, three positive races.
00:33:50And I thought he showed in his Remington race
00:33:54that he could stretch out
00:33:55and looking forward to getting him started at three.
00:33:58And I think he's a very good colt.
00:34:01Brad, I've got two things.
00:34:03First off, I think I missed the memo
00:34:04with the zip-up sweater that everybody's wearing.
00:34:07And secondly, it's Mardi Gras.
00:34:10I'm the only one wearing Mardi Gras beads.
00:34:13I mean, it's your horse's rights.
00:34:14Where are you?
00:34:15Where are your beads?
00:34:17I flew back to Kentucky yesterday for a few days
00:34:19and then back to Hot Springs.
00:34:21But I went to a parade on Thursday.
00:34:23I was there for around an hour and it was enough for me.
00:34:26So no, listen, it's a good time,
00:34:30but it's not much for a horse trainer at all.
00:34:32A little goes a long way.
00:34:35Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:36I spent a few winters down there.
00:34:38It's tough getting up in the morning,
00:34:39but I want to get back to verifying
00:34:41because he's the horse who I was privy with XBTV
00:34:44to watch all summer train in Saratoga.
00:34:48And he looks like a horse who each start,
00:34:50he's just got a little bit better.
00:34:53He's a half to midnight Bisou who got better with age.
00:34:56I'm not sure we've reached like his pinnacle yet.
00:35:01I have a feeling there's more in the tank.
00:35:04Well, I'm hoping there is,
00:35:05because now he's a good colt.
00:35:07He ran some good figures last time.
00:35:08He's been fairly consistent.
00:35:10His Breeders' Cup race,
00:35:11maybe he wasn't quite ready for that,
00:35:13but he did move forward.
00:35:15And physically, what I love about this horse most of all
00:35:17is since his race at Oaklawn,
00:35:19he shipped back to the fairgrounds.
00:35:20He looks like he's grown.
00:35:21He looks like he's developed
00:35:22and continuing to develop physically.
00:35:24So that's always a positive sound
00:35:26with the three of this time of year
00:35:27and super excited about getting back up to Oaklawn
00:35:31and giving him a shot on Saturday.
00:35:33Brad, Randy mentioned all the horses you have
00:35:35in the points top 20 or whatever,
00:35:38but how about the Derby future wager?
00:35:40We have 10 horses among the horses
00:35:43they're taking betting on.
00:35:44And I looked back at your Derby record
00:35:46and it took me a little bit by surprise
00:35:48that you're relatively new to this.
00:35:51You've only started five horses
00:35:52in the Derby in your career,
00:35:54didn't have any starters in the Derby before 2021.
00:35:58Whether you win the Derby this year or not,
00:36:00to be talking on February 21st
00:36:03and to have this overall depth,
00:36:05do you have to pinch yourself a little bit sometimes
00:36:07to think that we are in a great position here?
00:36:10Yeah, no, I think that it's,
00:36:14you're right, you're totally right.
00:36:16It is a new territory for us
00:36:18in regards to the Kentucky Derby.
00:36:20I mean, we've just been a part of the last two
00:36:22with five different horses,
00:36:24but yeah, listen, this is what we work for.
00:36:26This has been my dream for a long, long time
00:36:28is to get into this position,
00:36:30acquire good colts from top outfits,
00:36:32top breeders, top owners throughout the country.
00:36:36And listen, the bottom line is,
00:36:38I mean, these horses, you have to have a lot of them.
00:36:41I mean, to be on the stage.
00:36:43And I think what, to have this many at this point,
00:36:49I think is just, this proves that
00:36:52I think we've got a really, really good program
00:36:54with these horses at two.
00:36:55We don't get in a big hurry with them.
00:36:58Personally, I'm not a huge fan of running
00:37:00at four and a half, five eighths of a mile,
00:37:03even five and a half.
00:37:04I like to give them the time.
00:37:06These horses have all sorts of baby issues,
00:37:08shins, curbs, splints.
00:37:12And some of them just don't go on early on.
00:37:16And everybody that sends me horses is well aware of,
00:37:21listen, there's a good chance I'm gonna call you
00:37:23and tell you, this horse needs time.
00:37:25And Angel of Empire is actually one that didn't.
00:37:29He actually is one that just stepped up to the plate
00:37:31and been going since last spring.
00:37:34But a lot of them do.
00:37:35Tapas Conquest was a horse that had some setbacks.
00:37:37He was one of the first two year olds we got in last year.
00:37:39So I think, once again, very proud of the staff we have
00:37:44and them, my assistants being able to call me up
00:37:48or me going into their barn and saying,
00:37:50listen, this horse has shins, tendonitis, whatever.
00:37:53And it's a team effort and it's years and years
00:38:00of training young horses and being able to stop on them
00:38:03when they need to be stopped on
00:38:04and then having them ready to go
00:38:06in the fall of their two year old year
00:38:07or the beginning of their three year old season
00:38:09to try to make that push for the Kentucky Derby
00:38:11because it is very, very demanding.
00:38:13Brad, you have won the Kentucky Derby
00:38:16because of Mandaloon being placed first
00:38:18with the Medina Spirit drug positive.
00:38:21Do you feel like you've won the Kentucky Derby though?
00:38:23Or is this just not the same
00:38:24as if you see your horse cross the wire first this year?
00:38:27No, not even a little bit.
00:38:29It's not like winning the Kentucky Derby.
00:38:32And listen, I guess if you're awarded the race
00:38:36and you kind of have to explain,
00:38:38I'm someone that's, I would explain it.
00:38:41I wouldn't say, oh yeah, I won it.
00:38:42Well, you know, cross the wire first.
00:38:44I would have to explain it if I was to meet a stranger
00:38:47and they didn't know much about the Kentucky Derby
00:38:48and they were asked.
00:38:49But no, I definitely don't feel
00:38:51that we've won the Kentucky Derby.
00:38:53And I've always said, listen,
00:38:54we know the Kentucky Derby is not
00:38:56the richest race run in America,
00:38:58but I think it is without a doubt the most prestigious.
00:39:00And that's, you know, all the eyes are on racing that day
00:39:05with the telecast, the crowd and everything.
00:39:07And it's the thrill of victory, bottom line.
00:39:09And I haven't experienced that thrill
00:39:11and I look forward to someday.
00:39:13So Brad, you talked about how, you know,
00:39:16it's always been a goal to train for the top outfits,
00:39:18right?
00:39:19I've got a list here of like a dozen
00:39:21of your top three-year-olds,
00:39:22including a couple of maidens
00:39:23that have run exceptionally well.
00:39:25Looking at the owners, I mean,
00:39:26we're talking about Coolmore and Godolphin,
00:39:29the two arguably tops in the world.
00:39:32Cutter Racing, Stone Street, Windstar, West Point,
00:39:36the All Boss, Gary and Mary West,
00:39:38Spendthrift Farm, Frank Fletcher, Michael Dubb,
00:39:41Bob Lopenta, Edwards of E5, Saul Kuman and Mattaket.
00:39:45It's a murderer's row of owners.
00:39:47What's it like as a guy who grew up in Louisville,
00:39:50dreamed of being a trainer,
00:39:51when the phone rings and you pick it up
00:39:53and it's Coolmore, for example,
00:39:55asking if you'll take a two-year-old?
00:39:58Well, I mean, it's an amazing feeling.
00:40:02And, you know, we've worked very hard
00:40:04to get to this point, very happy with where we are.
00:40:06We're always continuing to want to move forward
00:40:08and acquire, you know, the best or try to, you know,
00:40:13yeah, acquire the best horses we can.
00:40:15You know, it's been a great run,
00:40:18but, you know, we're not content.
00:40:19We're, you know, trying to build off this
00:40:22each and every year and trying to, you know,
00:40:25put ourself in this position every year, to be honest,
00:40:26because this is really where we want to be.
00:40:28This is what our team thrives on,
00:40:29is making this march toward the Kentucky Derby
00:40:31and the Kentucky Oaks and the Triple Crown races.
00:40:35There's one horse who just broke his maiden
00:40:37and he looked like an absolute,
00:40:39pretty darn good horse this past weekend.
00:40:41Bishop's Bay, not only did he win,
00:40:43you also trained the runner up.
00:40:45What can you tell us about those two?
00:40:46Because a 97 by a speed figure just pops off the page
00:40:51and he was faster than everyone on the day.
00:40:53Yeah, he's a good colt.
00:40:54We liked him.
00:40:54I love this horse as a yearling,
00:40:56Liz Crow and Paul Sharp.
00:40:57I think he was one of the first horses I looked at
00:40:59when I arrived on the sales grounds
00:41:00that year for the September sale.
00:41:03And we all liked him a lot.
00:41:04I thought he was very, very, very good colt.
00:41:06Bought him from Warndale Sales
00:41:08and Windstar Stadium for a piece of him.
00:41:11But he didn't show up until November.
00:41:14So he was another one that was late.
00:41:16Paul Sharp did a good job with him,
00:41:17took his time, brought him along.
00:41:19He showed up in, I want to say at some point,
00:41:22November to the fairgrounds,
00:41:25started breezing him and he was doing well.
00:41:29And then we put some blinkers on him.
00:41:30He really kind of took off, I would say,
00:41:31probably end of December, 1st of January.
00:41:35I was like, wow, he's a nice colt
00:41:37and his gait works were really good.
00:41:38So we thought he could be a good colt.
00:41:41And I do think he'll stretch.
00:41:42I'm not 100% sure how far,
00:41:45but I do think he'll stretch out.
00:41:47And in regards to the good often colt first mission,
00:41:52I do think he'll stretch.
00:41:54He's a nice colt that's probably wanted
00:41:58a little bit more than three quarters first time out.
00:42:00Maybe just got a little tired late,
00:42:01but he's a colt that I think has a big future
00:42:04and I can't wait to get him around two turns.
00:42:06So how aggressive would you be right now with Bishop's Bay?
00:42:10I wouldn't be.
00:42:11I think that right now we just bring him along,
00:42:15maybe try to run him back in five, six weeks,
00:42:18not in a big hurry with him.
00:42:20I think to think he's a Derby horse is just premature.
00:42:23I think we're gonna just bring him along
00:42:25and run him in a first level allowance race,
00:42:30maybe something like a two turn race somewhere
00:42:34whether it be the fairgrounds or Oak Lawn.
00:42:36And then maybe look at, maybe, it's hard to say,
00:42:41let's stop there in regards to his races.
00:42:44But I don't think-
00:42:46Are those easy to find, two turn allowance races
00:42:49of a van condition for three year old colts?
00:42:53Sometimes they can be.
00:42:55These horses are still developing
00:42:57and getting better as the year goes on.
00:42:59Brad, among all your two year olds from last year,
00:43:02most people, myself included,
00:43:03thought Loggins was your best horse.
00:43:06I see now you've officially taken him off the list
00:43:09of horses to be considered for the Kentucky Derby.
00:43:11Give us an update on him
00:43:12and why has he been a little bit slow
00:43:14to come around this year?
00:43:16He's back under tack at Windstar.
00:43:18He is jogging and he was just a little funky behind.
00:43:21He just wasn't 100% behind.
00:43:24Nothing really jumped out on him.
00:43:26Dr. Sutter looked at him several different times
00:43:28and he has come around.
00:43:29He's starting to go the right way.
00:43:30We are taking our time.
00:43:31Once again, he's part of that colts group
00:43:34we put together last summer.
00:43:36I have to remind myself
00:43:38and we have to remind our owners sometimes,
00:43:39this isn't a derby group.
00:43:40It's a stallion group
00:43:42that we're hoping to make stallions out of.
00:43:45Listen, the Kentucky Derby,
00:43:46it's demanding on these horses to get them there.
00:43:51But I just wasn't happy with the horse
00:43:53the way it came out of the Keenelanders,
00:43:56the Breeders Fertility,
00:43:57and we give him the time he needed
00:43:58and it's just taking a little bit more time
00:44:00than expected and unfortunate
00:44:02and just part of it.
00:44:04But you gotta give them the time when they need it
00:44:06and he seems to be over his ailments
00:44:08and going the right way.
00:44:09And hopefully we'll have him back in our barn here
00:44:11in a few weeks.
00:44:13So Brad, Bill mentioned that your horses
00:44:15in the Risen Star ran in reverse order of the odds.
00:44:18I'm always telling people
00:44:20that given how inexperienced most three-year-olds are
00:44:25nowadays, how much less they're running
00:44:27than they used to run back in the old days,
00:44:29that just like the horse players,
00:44:30trainers are learning about them as you go along as well.
00:44:35Do you agree with that?
00:44:36And can you comment on that a little bit?
00:44:38Zero doubt.
00:44:39No, that's 100% right.
00:44:41Listen, at the end of the day,
00:44:42I mean, we breed these horse,
00:44:44most all of them weekly,
00:44:46and we evaluate them,
00:44:48we watch them the morning after,
00:44:49we watch them throughout the week
00:44:51leading up to their breezes.
00:44:52And listen, you form opinions, right?
00:44:56Like, I mean, that's what we,
00:44:58as trainers, watch them breeze against one another.
00:45:02I mean, I've seen horses go out of the mornings
00:45:05and out, you know, Bishop's Bay and First Mission
00:45:09were an example of like horses
00:45:11that worked several times against each other
00:45:13and showed, you know, Bishop's Bay
00:45:15was probably a little bit handier of the mornings
00:45:18where First Mission always gallop out well.
00:45:20So, we thought we'd just get them started
00:45:22both three quarters and we liked them both.
00:45:25But First Mission made it a little bit more interesting
00:45:27late than I expected,
00:45:29maybe first time out for him.
00:45:30And I told Louie that day, I said,
00:45:31I said, this colt, go put him in the race
00:45:35and, you know, let him gallop out
00:45:37and get something out of it.
00:45:39So, you know, we can hopefully stretch him out next time.
00:45:41But at the end of the day,
00:45:42we don't really know for sure what's gonna happen.
00:45:44There's no doubt about that.
00:45:45You just, you know, line them up
00:45:47and you can form your opinion.
00:45:48And when it works out, you can say,
00:45:49hey, I'm right.
00:45:50When it doesn't, you're wrong.
00:45:51But I will say, in fairness to my assistant,
00:45:53Jorge Abrego, which has been with me
00:45:55basically since the beginning,
00:45:56he runs the Oakland string and he comes to Churchill.
00:45:58He told me when he sent Angel of Empire up,
00:46:00he said, I'm sending the winner for the Risen Star up.
00:46:03So, in fairness to him, he called it.
00:46:05I mean, he said the colt would run a big race.
00:46:08We were working him the week before
00:46:09we'd worked him with an older horse named Film Star,
00:46:13which is a pretty solid workhorse.
00:46:16I mean, they work really, really well together
00:46:19and he galloped out great.
00:46:20So, we expected him to run a big race.
00:46:22So, we would never expect you to answer this straight up
00:46:25because all these horses,
00:46:26most of them are owned by different people.
00:46:28But in your list of all these three-year-olds,
00:46:31and you've got Iron Clover and Slip Mahoney
00:46:33probably coming up in the Gotham,
00:46:35and you got this horse Wadsworth at Turfway Park
00:46:38that's been winning
00:46:38and all the horses we've talked about already.
00:46:41In your mind, do you feel confident
00:46:43that you know the one horse,
00:46:46whether you can tell us or not,
00:46:47that would have the best chance
00:46:48out of all of your horses in the Kentucky Derby?
00:46:51Or is that still TBD?
00:46:54Oh, it's no doubt TBD, for sure.
00:46:56I mean, I can't answer that.
00:46:58I mean, I think that it's just,
00:47:01it sounds like, oh, first Saturday in May,
00:47:03it's right around the corner, but that's not the case.
00:47:05It's a long ways off for O'Brien's, you know,
00:47:10their career and what they have to do
00:47:12over the next couple of months.
00:47:13I mean, it's very demanding schedule and I don't know.
00:47:18Listen, I think both coach running Saturday
00:47:19are very good coach in the Rebel.
00:47:22I think they're two of the better ones.
00:47:24And we'll, you know, we'll see.
00:47:25I'm not playing poker with you.
00:47:27Absolutely, never playing poker with Brad Cox.
00:47:31I'll just leave it at that.
00:47:32All right, Brad, you've been training for 19 years.
00:47:34So it really was only just a handful of years ago
00:47:38that you just seemed to burst onto the scene,
00:47:40even though you've been training for 19 years.
00:47:42You just celebrated your 2000th win,
00:47:46your two sons work right alongside with you,
00:47:48Bryson and Blake.
00:47:49What kind of a feeling was it to get to number 2000,
00:47:53knowing where you've come from over the years?
00:47:58Well, I mean, well, I can remember like win number 100,
00:48:04I think it was in Delaware Park.
00:48:06And I can remember, I think number 300 was like,
00:48:08I think I was flying to Saratoga and it was at Ellis Park
00:48:11and I was on a plane and I was able to watch race.
00:48:12So it's really special because you think about
00:48:17where you were when those races happened.
00:48:19But again, it's been a long road.
00:48:21And like you said, I've been at this a while.
00:48:23I mean, been very fortunate over the last probably 10 years
00:48:26to really start picking up good horses.
00:48:28And it started with claiming and doing well with claimers.
00:48:32And then it seemed like you started picking up
00:48:33a lot more fillies and having some fillies
00:48:36pick off some great stakes here and there.
00:48:37And someone told me, I'll never forget this.
00:48:39They said, you have to do well with fillies
00:48:42and you have to do well with fillies
00:48:44before they'll ever send you colts.
00:48:45And it was very, very true.
00:48:47And then it parlayed over into,
00:48:49people starting to trust us with colts.
00:48:51So it's been neat.
00:48:53I mean, it's been a great run.
00:48:56There's some things looking back,
00:48:58I think maybe I went out on my own too early.
00:48:59I was 24, I was 25 years old when I went out on my own.
00:49:02And I think to myself,
00:49:03man, I should have maybe waited five years,
00:49:05but maybe I should have waited till I was 30.
00:49:08But at the end of the day,
00:49:09I don't think I would have changed anything.
00:49:12I like the way I've done it.
00:49:14Started with running a turf way in the winters.
00:49:19I learned a lot from that.
00:49:20And I think when my business
00:49:22obviously started going the right way
00:49:24is when I started taking that jump
00:49:26and traveling South in the winters.
00:49:28You remember your 300th.
00:49:30What do you remember from your first winner
00:49:33all those years back in 2004?
00:49:35I remember a lot of things.
00:49:37I remember it was Joe Johnson rode the horse.
00:49:39It was a horse that named one lucky storm,
00:49:42December 4th, 2004.
00:49:47And I'd asked, I believe a jock agent
00:49:54had the lead rider.
00:49:54I don't wanna say any names,
00:49:55but I asked him to ride the horse.
00:49:57And he said, no, I can't ride her there.
00:50:00I'd ride her for, he would ride her if I run her for 15.
00:50:03I said, eh, you know, I only got like three horses,
00:50:05you know, I don't think I'm gonna run her for 30.
00:50:07And she won.
00:50:08And that's probably what I remember most about it.
00:50:11She was my first starter.
00:50:12I ran her a few weeks before that at Churchill.
00:50:14And then she won a couple of weeks later there at Turfway.
00:50:17I think I ran her for open 10 first time out
00:50:20and then I ran her back in a 33 life
00:50:22and she won at Turfway.
00:50:24And it was still dirt at the time as well in 04.
00:50:27Very cool.
00:50:28So growing up by Churchill Downs
00:50:31and always dreaming from a young age,
00:50:34wanting to be a horse trainer,
00:50:35was there one guy, one horse trainer
00:50:38that you met when you were young
00:50:40that you thought, oh my God, I cannot believe
00:50:43I got a chance to meet this guy?
00:50:44Yeah, it's easy, D. Wayne Lucas.
00:50:46Yeah, walking out of the paddock at Churchill, yeah.
00:50:48He was the man.
00:50:49He still is.
00:50:50But when I was coming up, I mean, it was every weekend.
00:50:54I can remember, you know, at an early age,
00:50:56I mean, the feature race for me every weekend
00:50:59was a maiden special weight there,
00:51:01the two-year-olds in the spring.
00:51:02He had obviously the Overbrook horses
00:51:04and Bob and Beverly Lewis horses.
00:51:06And they're obviously always well-bred.
00:51:08That was kind of the highlight of the weekend for me.
00:51:10Well, we want to thank Brad Cox,
00:51:12this week's Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:51:13Brad, thanks so much for your time.
00:51:15Congratulations on past successes.
00:51:17Good luck this weekend in the Rebel Stakes.
00:51:19Thank you guys.
00:51:20Thank you guys for having me.
00:51:21I look forward to talking to you soon.
00:51:23Happy Mardi Gras.
00:51:25As this week's Guest of the Week,
00:51:26Brad Cox will receive a free one-hour tax consultation
00:51:29from the Green Group,
00:51:30an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm
00:51:33specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:51:35Again, you can learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:51:40Why do the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen
00:51:42select the Green Group as their tax advisor?
00:51:44We simply save them money
00:51:46and know how to make them more successful.
00:51:47Over the past 40 years,
00:51:48founder Leonard Green has owned and bred
00:51:50some of the best race horses in the history of the sport.
00:51:53His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge
00:51:55combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies
00:51:57has produced positive results for his clientele
00:51:59and has made the Green Group
00:52:01the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the business.
00:52:03For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
00:52:05contact us at 732-634-5100
00:52:09or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:52:12The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:52:16With some of the fullest fields in the country
00:52:18and quality racing year-round,
00:52:21there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
00:52:23of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:52:27Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,
00:52:30as is average purse per race,
00:52:32outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:52:36Kentucky breads.
00:52:37Breed them, raise them, race them.
00:52:41We all win.
00:52:45The TD and Riders Room is also brought to you by the KTOB.
00:52:4911 of TD Thornton's Derby Top 12 are Kentucky breads.
00:52:54That includes number one and number two,
00:52:56Arabian Night and Breeders' Cup Juvenile Winner, Forte,
00:52:59but also new additions to the top 12,
00:53:02Red Root One from the Aspen Stable, who goes in the Rebel,
00:53:05and also Go Rocket Ride, trained by Dick Mandela,
00:53:08who will run next week in the San Felipe.
00:53:10So again, all but one of the TD and Top 12 bread
00:53:14in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
00:53:17So at this point in the show,
00:53:18we are gonna talk about the big weekend races,
00:53:20and we thought we would be talking about Santa Anita,
00:53:23where the feature scheduled on Saturday
00:53:25was the Santa Isabel.
00:53:26It was gonna be a crucial prep for the Santa Anita Oaks,
00:53:29and of course, then the Kentucky Oaks,
00:53:31led by Faiza, Justique,
00:53:33a bunch of really good horses in there.
00:53:35But Zoe, that's not gonna happen.
00:53:37Tell us what's going on at Santa Anita.
00:53:39No, we're recording this on Wednesday,
00:53:40and by the time this comes out,
00:53:42the press release will be out
00:53:43that Santa Anita will cancel races throughout the weekend.
00:53:47Now we're expecting between three to five inches of rain
00:53:50on Friday into Saturday,
00:53:52and looks like Sunday's actually gonna be pretty good,
00:53:56but the problem that they're gonna face
00:53:57is that most of the horses that would be running on Sunday
00:54:00will be unable to train.
00:54:03Hence, the Santa Anita crew and the staff
00:54:06got together with all of the trainers,
00:54:08and they all agreed that they would cancel
00:54:10through the weekend.
00:54:11The Santa Isabel and the baffle stakes
00:54:13that were carded for this weekend
00:54:15will be rolled over into next weekend.
00:54:18Now we're expected to have a first Super Saturday
00:54:22next Saturday on March the 4th.
00:54:24I'm not sure where the Santa Isabel is gonna fit.
00:54:27They might push that to Sunday as well,
00:54:29but certainly it's gonna be a huge weekend of racing
00:54:33at Santa Anita next weekend.
00:54:36But for this weekend, we're just fastening down the hatches
00:54:39and gonna be very quiet out here.
00:54:41And Santa Anita continues to err on the side of caution.
00:54:44It's obviously working because if we've talked about
00:54:47and reported on their safety record
00:54:49has just been incredible over the last couple of years,
00:54:52and they certainly have moved the needle quite a bit.
00:54:54So no problem with them canceling.
00:54:57Don't take any chances is their,
00:54:59I think their unofficial motto,
00:55:00and certainly it is working out for them.
00:55:03Okay, so that leaves the card at Oakland Park on Saturday.
00:55:06That's really the main attraction in Thoroughbred Racing.
00:55:08Bunch of stakes races.
00:55:09The Honey Bee is a grade three for three-year-old fillies,
00:55:12and we've talked about the Rebel Stakes grade three.
00:55:15Only in Oakland could you have a $1 million race
00:55:18that is a prep for a prep for the Kentucky Derby.
00:55:21My goodness, the money that they have there
00:55:22is just incredible.
00:55:24And you know what's working out for them
00:55:25is they get very strong fields.
00:55:27Will Brad Cox do it again?
00:55:28He's got the two-to-one morning line favorite Verifying,
00:55:31and the five-to-two second-choice Giant Mischief.
00:55:34I'm actually gonna pick Reincarnate.
00:55:37Those are the three horses, Reincarnate's seven-to-two.
00:55:40So those are the three horses in the line.
00:55:42Hard to separate them,
00:55:43but Reincarnate, who will run for Tim Yak team
00:55:46first time outside of the Baffert Barn,
00:55:49looks like a horse on the improve,
00:55:50won the sham last time out over Newgate,
00:55:52came back to win the Robert B. Lewis,
00:55:54that race that Baffert had the four horses in there.
00:55:57Hard to separate them, but just for fun,
00:56:00and we would like to make a pick here,
00:56:02I'll go with Reincarnate, Randy.
00:56:04I mean, that's the big three.
00:56:05They're not the only horses in the race
00:56:07that have a chance to win,
00:56:08but that's definitely the big three.
00:56:10And the two trained by Brad Cox way up there.
00:56:13I mean, Verifying, that huge win at Oaklawn
00:56:16in an allowance race in his last start,
00:56:1897 buyer speed figure.
00:56:19He's gotten better and better.
00:56:21Brad Cox says he was mentally immature last year,
00:56:24starting to come around in that way this year.
00:56:26And the horse that ran third behind him
00:56:28in that allowance race,
00:56:29a horse by the name of Two Eagles River,
00:56:33came back and won a big allowance race last week at Oaklawn
00:56:36to sort of flatter Verifying's win.
00:56:39Giant Mischief, when he ran at Remington Park,
00:56:41was absolutely left at the gate
00:56:43and still came on to run a really creditable second
00:56:46with a decent speed figure.
00:56:48So I've been waiting to see him come back.
00:56:50And to your point, I loved Reincarnate's last race.
00:56:54A very, very fast pace in the sham.
00:56:57He was dogging it out all the way on the front end,
00:56:59fighting off challenger after challenger,
00:57:02dug in and won it at the end.
00:57:03The buyer came back at 95 despite the fast pace.
00:57:07So, hey, I mean, I'm right there with you.
00:57:11I think Reincarnate's going to be really tough to beat.
00:57:14I got one question, guys.
00:57:16It used to be easy to get to Oaklawn Park
00:57:19when you had Sutton, when he had the plane, Tech Sutton.
00:57:23Used to just leave Ontario
00:57:26and fly right into Hot Springs Airport.
00:57:29It was one of the easiest ships ever.
00:57:31If you're a human, it's a little bit harder to get there,
00:57:33but if you're a horse, it was easier.
00:57:35Without Tech Sutton, Reincarnate is having to fly,
00:57:39he's flown already, FedEx.
00:57:41So he leaves the FedEx pot here, he goes to Memphis,
00:57:45and then he has the van from Memphis to Oaklawn.
00:57:49So not quite as simple as they used to just fly in there.
00:57:54So that may be one edge against Reincarnate.
00:57:57I did like his last race.
00:57:58He looked fat in the paddock, to be honest.
00:58:00It's not often that I would call a Bob Baffert horse fat,
00:58:03but he was certainly quite rotund and he won in spite of it.
00:58:07I think he's a horse who carries an awful lot of condition,
00:58:10which is a good thing, a really good thing moving forward.
00:58:13And I think he's going to handle everything
00:58:15that's thrown at him.
00:58:16But I love the horse on the rail.
00:58:18I'd like to morn along and I'll take Verifying in here
00:58:20if I have to pick anyone.
00:58:22I think he's a horse who's just getting bigger and better
00:58:26at just the right time.
00:58:28The TDM Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:58:32The Workout of the Week this week is Carmel Road,
00:58:35who worked five furlongs on Monday morning in 59 flat.
00:58:39Now, Carmel Road was last seen
00:58:41running second in the Los Alfaturity.
00:58:44Tim Yachteen won that race with practical move.
00:58:48Carmel Road is now trained by Tim Yachteen
00:58:51and looks like he will go forward to run
00:58:53in the Gotham this weekend.
00:58:55♪♪♪
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00:59:56The TDM Writer's Room is brought to you
00:59:58by West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:00:02can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie
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01:00:14Learn more at westpointtb.com.
01:00:17This week at GoldStream,
01:00:19Empress of War got the nose down on the wire
01:00:23over the Tapita track.
01:00:24Wall of Famer Shug McGahee told the West Point crew
01:00:27he was happy with the win
01:00:28and they would have some fun with her this year,
01:00:31here, there, and everywhere.
01:00:33And on Monday,
01:00:34Mademoiselle Jackie showed the way
01:00:36and held on over the GoldStream Park turf
01:00:39to break her maiden for trainer Christophe Clement,
01:00:42who stretched her out to nine furlongs for the win.
01:00:45This week's Remy Bloch cartoon,
01:00:47which runs every Friday in the Thoroughbred Daily News,
01:00:49is in.
01:00:50It's a cute one.
01:00:51You have a picture of a horse in a stall,
01:00:53looks all content,
01:00:54and there's a fish tank in there with him,
01:00:56obviously for companionship.
01:00:58And one guy says to the other,
01:00:59wouldn't it be cheaper to just get a goat?
01:01:01Would be,
01:01:02those tropical fish can get pretty expensive.
01:01:05Well, that's a wrap on this week's show,
01:01:07this week's Thoroughbred Daily News Writers' Room podcast.
01:01:10I want to thank the Green Group Guests of the Week,
01:01:12Brad Cox,
01:01:13my cohorts,
01:01:14Brandi Moss,
01:01:15Zoe Cadman,
01:01:16our producer, Patty Wolf,
01:01:17our associate producer, Katie Petruniak,
01:01:19our editors, Anthony La Rocca,
01:01:20Aaliyah Rocca,
01:01:21and Nathan Wilkinson,
01:01:22and this week's special mascot,
01:01:24Zoe's dog, Doodle.
01:01:25He's back there somewhere, right, Zoe?
01:01:27I think he's ducked out.
01:01:28He's outside.
01:01:29Okay.
01:01:30Well, anyways,
01:01:31Doodle joined us a little bit earlier in the show.
01:01:33Lucy will be back,
01:01:34I presume, next week.
01:01:35Once again,
01:01:36thanks for tuning us in.
01:01:37We'll talk to you next week.