thoroughbreddailynews
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Transcript
00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:31I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:34I'm also the co-host of the Down the Stretch radio show on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:38Hi y'all.
00:00:39I'm Randy Moss.
00:00:40Greetings from Minnesota.
00:00:41I just got back from televising the Keeneland races.
00:00:46I'm with NBC Sports.
00:00:47Zoe Cabman here in sunny California.
00:00:50No doodle sighting.
00:00:51I think he's under the bed.
00:00:52I work for XBTV and First Racing.
00:00:56Any dog sighting for you boys?
00:00:59Penny just left the room.
00:01:00I'm sure Lucy's around somewhere though, right?
00:01:03There she is.
00:01:04There she is.
00:01:05There she is.
00:01:06All right.
00:01:07Hi Lucy.
00:01:08I want to remind you this week and every week we're brought to you by our good friends at
00:01:11Keeneland.
00:01:12Okay, speaking of Keeneland, we can really have a lot of fun going over not only the
00:01:17Keeneland races, but all the major Breeders' Cup prep races that were run around North
00:01:22America, including Canada over the weekend.
00:01:25Obviously, I don't think we can get to every single race, but let's try to focus in on
00:01:28some of the bigger ones.
00:01:30The way we set it up was let's go track by track and let's just do kind of a free-flowing
00:01:35discussion of what we like, what we saw, et cetera.
00:01:38I'd like to start it at Keeneland because I said on the show last week, I thought the
00:01:43race of the week was going to be the Coolmore Turf Mile and I nailed it, guys.
00:01:48That was the race of the week.
00:01:50I thought that Up to the Mark was the biggest star of the weekend.
00:01:54He only won by a nose, but he gave me hope that the American turf horses aren't hopeless
00:02:00after just losing everything in sight.
00:02:03He goes up against a really nice horse by the name of Master of the Seas, who was the
00:02:07favorite in the race.
00:02:09Charlie Appelby coming off a win in the Woodbine Mile.
00:02:12And if Master of the Seas had whipped his butt, I would have just said that you can
00:02:16just forget about the American horses.
00:02:18They're not good enough.
00:02:19So Up to the Mark, trained by Todd Pletcher, who is not necessarily known for being that
00:02:25strong in this division, is the best American turf horse in the country, I have no doubt
00:02:29about that, and will carry the flag for the good old USA.
00:02:32But wasn't that a terrific race, Zoe?
00:02:35I mean, it came down to the wire and nose.
00:02:37Great ride by Jose Ortiz.
00:02:39That was the race of the week.
00:02:40And you know, the only time he was in front was right on the wire when he got his nose
00:02:47down.
00:02:48I saw a still of what seemingly looked like the finish line, and it was clearly Godolphin
00:02:55in front.
00:02:56I mean, I'm not arguing the finish.
00:02:57He just got a really, really good bob.
00:03:00But I have to say, I was a little worried because, you know, the Godolphin horse was
00:03:05off and running and he was coming down the lane like a juggernaut.
00:03:09And Jose, who was in a good position, seemed to get shuffled back on the turf and he was
00:03:14nowhere.
00:03:15So I was a little bit worried initially because I played the cross-country pick six, and I
00:03:21did not single up to the mark because I was worried about Jose Ortiz.
00:03:27Iran is his regular rider and has done all the good work on him.
00:03:30And I'm like, Jose doesn't know him as well, and perhaps he's going to get to know him
00:03:34in the race.
00:03:35I don't know, but I couldn't single him.
00:03:38And then coming down to the wire, I'm like, oh, I'm glad I didn't single him.
00:03:41And he just got up in the nick of time.
00:03:45It really was a fantastic race.
00:03:48I mean, honestly, if it had been a dead heat, I would have been quite happy.
00:03:52And now, you know, we're going to hear an awful lot about Mike Rapoli on this show a
00:03:57little bit later on.
00:03:58But he has confirmed that up to the mark has no more to prove, going a mile, Randy.
00:04:03But he will go in the turf, which is a mile and a half.
00:04:07So judging by how he ran, I don't think it's going to be a problem, especially coming down
00:04:12the hill at Santa Anita.
00:04:13Yeah, Cezoa, you were getting bogged down in your handicapping, looking at jockeys.
00:04:18I never have that problem at all.
00:04:22Jose Ortiz, Irad Ortiz, yeah, they're both good.
00:04:26Look, what impressed me so much about up to the mark, and you mentioned it earlier, if
00:04:32Master of the Seas had encountered traffic trouble or just did not fire his best shot
00:04:40and up to the mark wins, then maybe there's still a question mark or two or whatever.
00:04:46But look, Master of the Seas fired big.
00:04:49I mean, he fired just as big a shot, in my opinion, as he did at Woodbine.
00:04:55And the way European turf forces finish, we don't see very often, to Bill's point, a
00:05:01quality European turf force fire big with that turn of foot and then get run down from
00:05:07behind by an American.
00:05:10And not only that, but an American and up to the mark that hadn't run in a little while
00:05:16because of a unspecified physical setback is the way Todd Pletcher put it to us.
00:05:23But he came out big and now on to the mile and a half where he'll probably be matched up
00:05:30against a really good, but sometimes inconsistent European named Auguste Rodin for
00:05:37Coolmore and Aidan O'Brien, some other potential Onesto, who finished third in the
00:05:42arc, but who may be better on softish turf, expected to come over for the turf as well.
00:05:47Warlike Goddess, we'll mention her later.
00:05:50So it's going to be a tough spot for up to the mark, but undoubtedly he is the best of
00:05:54the American grasshorses in it.
00:05:56It's really going to be a good race to look forward to.
00:05:58And if Godolphin presses ahead with Master of the Seas, it's conceivable we could get
00:06:04two Breeders' Cup winners out of the Coolmore turf mile because, you know, he'll be one
00:06:10of the leading candidates for the mile.
00:06:12Another race where there should be huge European participation.
00:06:17All right, we can bounce around a little bit at Keeneland and another race that caught
00:06:21my attention and caught the attention of a lot of people was the Breeders' Futurity.
00:06:25Locke wins by a half length over the Wine Steward.
00:06:28We're going to talk to his owner, Aaron Wellman, a little bit later in the show when
00:06:32we do the Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:06:34He's kind of a funny horse.
00:06:36He went off at 12 to 1 in his debut.
00:06:39A Todd Pletcher horse at 12 to 1 debut at Saratoga, had a troubled trip, ran well, came
00:06:45back and then broke his maiden with a big number.
00:06:48He didn't blow anybody away.
00:06:50He beat the Wine Steward.
00:06:51But, Zoe, he had a tough trip.
00:06:53He was wide on both turns.
00:06:56I don't know how he's going to fare in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:06:58That's going to be a very tough race.
00:07:00But I liked his race as well for another Todd Pletcher winner over the weekend at
00:07:06Keeneland. Well, he stepped up at every point.
00:07:09And it's obvious that he wants to go two turns.
00:07:11You could tell that by his debut.
00:07:13He galloped out in front first time around two turns.
00:07:16He's answered every question.
00:07:17I can't knock him because he's not going to blast the doors off anyone.
00:07:22He's not that kind of horse.
00:07:23He's that's why he was 12 to 1 in his debut, because he's not one of those held to the
00:07:29leather workhorses in the morning.
00:07:31He's just a really good horse.
00:07:32He lost an awful lot of ground.
00:07:34He traveled way further than everybody else in the running of the race.
00:07:38And I don't want to say it was a workmanlike performance because I believe it was a good
00:07:42performance. But I thought he looked terrific coming down the lane.
00:07:46And we know that the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, there is going to be pace aplenty signed up
00:07:52there because there always is.
00:07:53And there'll be plenty of California speed in there.
00:07:55So I think Locke, Locke has a really, really good shot.
00:08:00And I was very impressed with his run.
00:08:02Yeah, I don't know what to make of Prince of Monaco on the West Coast.
00:08:08But right now I say put me down for Locke for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:08:12Look, he he did blow away a maiden field at Saratoga very impressively.
00:08:18And I believe he would have blown away the Breeders' Futurity field with a better trip,
00:08:24with a better post position.
00:08:26Look, he's four wide on the first turn.
00:08:28OK, and when you're Jose Ortiz, who was riding Locke, he showed a lot in that maiden win
00:08:35at Saratoga when he was very forwardly placed right up on the lead.
00:08:40So Ortiz had a choice when they hit the first turn.
00:08:42There was a cluster of horses inside of him.
00:08:44He could either take back and lose early position and move over and save some ground, or
00:08:51he could go ahead and let Locke push forward and have a better position closer to the pace,
00:08:56but get caught wide.
00:08:58And what jockeys try to do, and Zoe knows this, if you get caught, especially in a big
00:09:03race like this, if you get caught wide on one turn, you at least try to save ground on the
00:09:07second turn. You don't want to go wide on both turns.
00:09:10But Jose had no choice.
00:09:12He was stranded out five wide all the way around the second turn.
00:09:16Now, we'll talk about Muth later, the winner of the American Pharoah, who had a rail trip
00:09:20on both turns. The difference in buyer speed figures, if you're a handicapper, between a
00:09:26rail trip like Muth had and a four wide, five wide trip like Locke had, is roughly 13
00:09:34buyer speed figure points.
00:09:37So to me, Locke ran a gigantic race.
00:09:41And then not only did he go wide on both turns, but then he had to engage in a dogfight down
00:09:46the lane with the New York bred, DeWine Stewart, who ran a really courageous race himself
00:09:52with a good trip. And he managed to prevail over with that.
00:09:55So I really like Locke's race a lot.
00:10:00Was a lot to like, but we'll get to Prince of Monaco a little bit later when we talk about
00:10:04Muth and the American Pharoah.
00:10:06Boy, I'm sticking on the Prince of Monaco bandwagon for now after what we saw over the
00:10:12weekend. All right.
00:10:13So what is it about Chad Brown who keeps getting in Italian beat by his own horses?
00:10:19I've been a big fan of hers for the longest time, but now the story plays out again in the
00:10:24first lady.
00:10:26She she's the heavy favorite, two to five, three Chad Brown horses in the race.
00:10:31She gets the trip that she likes.
00:10:33She goes to lead. The pace was a little bit fast, but it wasn't ridiculously fast.
00:10:37And she gets run down by a stable mate, Gina Romanica, to win by a head at 11 to one.
00:10:43Like I said, in the second straight time that this has happened to in Italian, having
00:10:48getting beat by another horse from the Chad Brown barn.
00:10:52I want to look up these with the it was White Beam in the Diana before that had won by a
00:10:57nose. But, you know, she didn't run terrible, but it was a little bit disappointed she
00:11:02didn't win. But Randy, you're talking about the and Manny and Zoe talking about the buyer
00:11:06figures in Italian, ran her race.
00:11:09She ran a one oh five.
00:11:11A matter of fact, that was the best buyer figure of her career.
00:11:16Somehow Gina Romanica was just able to jump up from a 92 to one oh five, an improvement
00:11:23of 13 points and get the job done.
00:11:27So all that stands between an Italian and a perfect year is Chad Brown.
00:11:32It's yeah, it's Chad Brown beating Chad Brown and Peter Brandt beating Peter Brandt.
00:11:37So, you know, on an ordinarily an odd excuse me, that's a regular owner could get mad.
00:11:45But it's Peter Brandt beating Peter Brandt and Chad Brown beating Peter Brandt.
00:11:49It's just it's insane.
00:11:51And she ran a winning race.
00:11:53Then they ran a fast time.
00:11:54I mean, they went one thirty three and three and she gets beat by a head.
00:11:59Gina Romantica, obviously she had a really, really good day in Italian, lost nothing in
00:12:04defeat. And I like white beam in this race.
00:12:07And I think she was just a little bit too close.
00:12:09But I don't think we can really hold it against in Italian for getting beat like that by her
00:12:15stable mate. Maybe Chad shouldn't run as many horses and then just run one.
00:12:20Why run two when one will do so?
00:12:23Because when you have seventy five in the same division, you can't run more than one
00:12:28sometimes. So it was it was a really, really good race, but she lost absolutely nothing
00:12:36in defeat, in my opinion.
00:12:38Randy, do you know, because I know you check in, is in Italian going next in the Breeders'
00:12:43Cup mile, the Breeders' Cup Philly Mayor, which is where she went last?
00:12:46Well, about 20 minutes ago, I texted Chad Brown.
00:12:52Chad's not a big fan of NBC right now, so for reasons we won't get into, but he didn't
00:12:58respond. I said Gina Romantica for the Philly Mayor turf and in Italian for the mile.
00:13:04To me, that's the logical scenario.
00:13:05No response. But to me, look, Gina Romantica.
00:13:09OK, first of all, I agree with what you guys said, just like Master of the Seas ran his
00:13:14race and got beat in Italian, ran as well as she's ever run and just got run down by
00:13:20her Peter Brand stablemate.
00:13:21OK, so I think that still makes her we'll see what Peter and Chad choose to do.
00:13:26I think it still makes her a legitimate candidate for the Breeders' Cup mile, even with
00:13:31the Europeans coming over.
00:13:32She'll get a hard, theoretically, a hard, fast turf course at Santa Anita, which she
00:13:38loves. She'll probably set the pace, which she loves.
00:13:43Look, she's going to be tough to run down in the Breeders' Cup mile, even though she lost
00:13:47in the First Lady. And Gina Romantica, she's by, she's by into mischief.
00:13:55In the past, she's won the QE2 at Keeneland at a mile and an eighth.
00:14:00She was second to Feb Rover in the, at a mile and three sixteenths in the Beverly D.
00:14:06So a mile and a quarter is certainly not beyond her capability, especially the way she
00:14:12finished up in the, in the First Lady.
00:14:15Look at this. If you believe in the Keeneland fractional times, which now they have
00:14:21switched to GPS fractional times.
00:14:24I don't know why they did it.
00:14:25Makes no sense to me.
00:14:27So handicappers out there can no longer trust the Keeneland fractional times.
00:14:31Their beam timer was working just fine.
00:14:33But if you, if you, if you look at those fractional times on the, on the, on the
00:14:39Equibase GMAX charts, Gina Romantica finished her final quarter mile in about three or
00:14:46four hundredths of a second faster than Up to the Mark did.
00:14:52And we saw how fast Up to the Mark finished.
00:14:55So Gina Romantica, to me, is a perfect candidate for the Filly and Mare turf.
00:14:59And I think Peter Brant split up his, his females last year.
00:15:05He had two big ones, obviously, an Initalian and Regal Glory.
00:15:09And he chose to run Initalian longer in the Filly and Mare turf and Regal Glory in the
00:15:13mile. But I don't think Initalian wants to go a mile and a quarter.
00:15:16So to me, that's what I expect to happen.
00:15:20And Gina Romantica purely loves Keeneland.
00:15:23I mean, you mentioned she won the QE2.
00:15:25Some horses just come alive at Keeneland because there is not another turf course like
00:15:29it. It's a very sandy base course.
00:15:31So she could well be a horse for course as well.
00:15:34Point. Sunday at Keeneland, the big story was the Spinster Stakes.
00:15:39And I think people are going to look at Idiomatic's race and say she stole the race,
00:15:44which she did.
00:15:46She got in front 24 to 48 in one.
00:15:49But I'm not going to hold that against her.
00:15:51That's her running style.
00:15:52It's an asset.
00:15:53She won by four and a quarter lengths, beat a good field nest.
00:15:57Unfortunately, it looks like something's gone amiss with her as she was fourth, beaten
00:16:0111 and a quarter. I don't know off the top of my head right now exactly what the pace
00:16:06scenario is going to be. Maybe Randy does for the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
00:16:10But to me, she's taken hold of this division trained by Brad Cox.
00:16:15It was a you know, again, they gave her the race.
00:16:18But then again, she had to run around the racetrack.
00:16:21She beat some decent horses.
00:16:23She's really good right now.
00:16:25And, you know, far in advance of the P.P.'s coming out, I think she's the one to beat
00:16:29in the Distaff.
00:16:30What were all the other jockeys thinking?
00:16:33She won this race exactly like she won her last race on the lead with Florent.
00:16:39Her first quarter was 23 and four.
00:16:41When I saw that and she was all on her own on the lead, I'm like, where is everybody?
00:16:45I know Ness didn't get off to a great start, but I mean, where were the rest of them?
00:16:49Were they back there sleeping?
00:16:51She went 23 and four, 23 and four, 24 and three.
00:16:56Those were her three quarter splits.
00:16:58Like, what were they thinking?
00:17:00I'm like, it's over.
00:17:01When I saw her go down the backside, because she is massive.
00:17:05Brad Cox said that she's the biggest horse in the barn.
00:17:08So he has to get on his tippy toes to saddle her.
00:17:11And she's got this huge, big old head and she's clunking down the backside, like
00:17:15clicking off these 12 and change, 12 and change fractions.
00:17:19I'm like, where's everybody else?
00:17:20She's regally bred.
00:17:21She's out of a full sister to close hatches who also had tacitus.
00:17:26So these horses are bred to run all day long.
00:17:30Distance is not a problem.
00:17:33There'll be plenty of speed in that disc stuff, because you're going to have two
00:17:36big fillies there that will be on the lead with a dare manner as well.
00:17:40Those two to me are so, so similar.
00:17:43It's just a question of who's going to be quicker, but it was a terrific ride by
00:17:47Florent Giroux, who certainly got her number.
00:17:49And if they let her go, those kinds of fractions, which they won't in the
00:17:53police cup, this stuff should be a winner.
00:17:56But that purely was all flow all the way.
00:18:00And everyone else is just sleeping honestly.
00:18:02And Nest as far as Nest, I'm not sure what's gone on with Nest.
00:18:06We'll hear from Aaron Wellman a little bit later, who perhaps might be able to
00:18:09enlighten us, but she just didn't show up and she's closed before and, you
00:18:15know, overcome tougher trips than that.
00:18:18Yeah, I think I know what the other jockeys were doing, Zoe, having talked to
00:18:25all the trainers of each horse in the spinster before the race, to me what the
00:18:31scenario was, right?
00:18:32You had Idiomatic who had the most early speed than any other horse in the field.
00:18:39If some of the other riders had really made it a point to try to ride very
00:18:44aggressively to prevent Idiomatic from getting such a soft early lead, they
00:18:48could have. But what you had was you had a group of long shots in the race whose
00:18:55owners and trainers were greatly desirous of getting a grade one stakes placing.
00:19:02Some of those fillies in the race are entered in the November sale at Keeneland
00:19:07and weren't grade one stakes placed.
00:19:09And they really wanted to have that on their resume.
00:19:12And I think they all felt that going out aggressively and pushing Idiomatic early
00:19:17would hurt their chances of hanging on to finish second or third when you had Nest
00:19:23in the race as well.
00:19:24So I think that's what they were thinking.
00:19:26I think they were being very conservative, trying to pick up the pieces.
00:19:29And it worked with De La Vita.
00:19:31She finished second.
00:19:33But but anyway, that's my theory.
00:19:36As far as the other speed in the distaff, you got a Dare Manor, randomized, trained
00:19:41by Chad Brown, Clarvitz Stables, won the Bell Dame.
00:19:45She's also got a lot of early speed.
00:19:47And we don't know who else with speed might wind up going into the distaff field, if
00:19:52any of the three year olds other than pretty mischievous and wet paint who have no
00:19:56speed are going to go in.
00:19:57Clary Ayer is out there training already.
00:20:00Mike Rapole said, told NBC later in the day that Nest was going to go, that she was
00:20:06going to run in the distaff. To me.
00:20:09Favorite, as the favorite, right?
00:20:10Yeah, that's what he said.
00:20:11That's what he said.
00:20:13So, you know, you know, she was fit.
00:20:16You know, she doesn't have a physical problem where they wouldn't have run her.
00:20:19I just I think maybe Nest just doesn't have the same want to that she had a little
00:20:26bit earlier in her career for whatever reason.
00:20:28You never know, especially with some of these fillies, you know what what might be
00:20:31going on in their head. And I was kind of surprised that they decided to push on to
00:20:36the distaff. But then I thought about it.
00:20:38She's going to be probably the last race of her career.
00:20:41So she's going to go to the breeding shed.
00:20:42Almost almost certainly.
00:20:44I don't know that for a fact. Maybe you can ask Aaron.
00:20:47You know that if she wants to, if she suddenly decides that she wants to, she's got
00:20:53the talent to win the distaff.
00:20:55You really got not that much to lose.
00:20:58So if she's doing well, why not send her out there and maybe she'll get up on the
00:21:02right side of the stall the morning of the distaff and she'll be the old nest and
00:21:06she'll fire big. But look, idiomatic.
00:21:09She doesn't have to have the lead.
00:21:11She's obviously probably better with the lead.
00:21:13All most horses are.
00:21:15But all you got to do is go back to races and look at the Del Cap where she stumbled
00:21:18went to her nose at the start.
00:21:20She was last and then next to last.
00:21:22And she beat a weak field, but she wound up winning anyway.
00:21:25So maybe she doesn't have to be in front.
00:21:27She can just get that big, long stride going and right behind whoever whoever is up
00:21:32there. But it should be a fun distaff.
00:21:34Let's head to Woodbine, where on Sunday they had a bunch of major races, including
00:21:38the E.P. Taylor and the Canadian International.
00:21:40Canadian International wasn't run last year.
00:21:42They brought it back. Good to see.
00:21:44And of course, was the 50th anniversary of Secretary, it's last ever start winning
00:21:50the Canadian. It's not quite because that race in 1973 was run towards the end of
00:21:54October, but the same race run around the same time with Eddie Maple aboard on a
00:21:59miserable day at Woodbine.
00:22:01Go to YouTube that you can find that race.
00:22:03It's really cool to see and the conditions and everything.
00:22:06So to me and the E.P.
00:22:08Taylor won by February over has been a very good filly for Mark Cassie, and she gets
00:22:13the job done over with the moonlight from Charlie Appleby.
00:22:17You go into the Canadian International and Appleby looks like he's about to get could
00:22:20get shut out on this weekend, which is just unfathomable considering the run he's been
00:22:27on and the horses he brings in.
00:22:29So he brings in Nations Pride, who was fifth last year, is the favorite in the Breeders
00:22:34Cup turf and gets the job done, beats another European horse, one, two European
00:22:40finish. You know, I don't have a whole lot to say about this Nations Pride.
00:22:45I just don't think he beat anybody all that good in this race, but it is Charlie
00:22:49Appleby. He'll be back, I'm sure, for the Breeders Cup turf will certainly have to
00:22:52run better than he did last year when he was a three year old.
00:22:55This year now he's four.
00:22:56Charlie said he's not coming to the Breeders Cup with Nations Pride.
00:23:00It looks like that he's going to go to the grade two Bahrain trophy and then on to
00:23:04Hong Kong with him.
00:23:06So he was the best horse in the race and he won like it.
00:23:10So I'm not going to knock him for who he beat.
00:23:13He was very good.
00:23:14I'll tell you who I was really impressed with was Fevrover because she got in a perfect
00:23:20trip under Javier Castellanos.
00:23:22She was a great runner.
00:23:23She got in a perfect trip under Javier Castellanos.
00:23:26She was on the lead and then going around the turn, it looks like she was faltering.
00:23:30She was on the rails. She went back.
00:23:32A couple of long shots went on by her.
00:23:34She swung around them.
00:23:35She turned for home and here comes Moira, the favorite down the middle of the racetrack
00:23:40who actually passes her.
00:23:42And Javier Castellanos, having the year of a lifetime, just kept riding and Fevrover got
00:23:47the win. I thought it was a really, really gutsy win by her.
00:23:52And who did Fevrover beat before that in the Beverly Dee?
00:23:55Gina Romanica.
00:23:56So Fevrover's right in there, right in there in the mix.
00:23:59Charlie Appleby must have really high standards because Nation's Pride looked pretty good
00:24:04to me. And after the race, Appleby kind of poo-pooed it and said, oh, yeah, he showed
00:24:09me. Yeah, he didn't want to go a mile and a half.
00:24:11So we're not going to run him in the Breeders' Cup turf.
00:24:14I'm like, wow, OK.
00:24:15I mean, I mean, I know the Breeders' Cup turf is going to be a lot tougher than the Canadian
00:24:18International was, but still, I didn't think he looked that I didn't think he looked that
00:24:22bad at all. One note about Secretariat.
00:24:25It's kind of fun. I remember about 15, 20 years ago, I wrote an article about I think
00:24:31maybe it was when Secretariat died even.
00:24:34And I talked to Eddie Maple, who rode Secretariat in that final race in the Canadian
00:24:38International. And I said, just tell me, what was it like to ride Secretariat, you know,
00:24:44a horse that you'd watched, I know, like everybody else and had admired.
00:24:47And he said, first of all, it was a foggy day, if you look at the video and you know how
00:24:51sound carries in the fog.
00:24:53And he said it was surreal.
00:24:56He's going down the backstretch at Woodbine and Secretariat's hit, you know, hitting high
00:25:00gear and all you could hear was like a locomotive.
00:25:07And he said, oh, my God.
00:25:08And so they get to the top of the stretch and Secretariat's gone on.
00:25:11Right. He's left Kennedy Road behind.
00:25:13He's left great turf horses behind.
00:25:15Secretariat might have been better on turf than dirt.
00:25:17Amazingly. And he said, OK, I'm on Secretariat.
00:25:21I got this race wrapped up.
00:25:22This is the last race of his career.
00:25:25I wonder if he's got another gear.
00:25:28So he said, I just couldn't resist it.
00:25:30So he got to the quarter pole.
00:25:31He said, I clucked to him, kind of moved my hands a little bit.
00:25:34And he said he felt this huge surge forward.
00:25:38And then he just kind of grabbed a hold of it and said, OK, all right.
00:25:41He had it. I just had to test him out.
00:25:43I just wanted to see.
00:25:45And of course, he, you know, gallops across the wire way, way in front.
00:25:49So, yeah, it's the 50th anniversary of that win.
00:25:52I can't believe it's been 50 years, but that's always fun to reminisce upon.
00:25:58All right, guys, who was the third jockey to have ridden Secretariat
00:26:02other than Ron Turcotte and Eddie Maple?
00:26:04Go ahead, Zoe. You know this.
00:26:06I've got. No, I don't.
00:26:08Sandy Hawley.
00:26:09Benny Feliciano rode him in his career debut.
00:26:13Right. Finished fourth.
00:26:15Zoe, you didn't even try it, Randy.
00:26:17Wrong. Oh, it wasn't Feliciano?
00:26:20It was a guy named Paul Feliciano.
00:26:23And he rode him in his first two races as an apprentice.
00:26:27And somebody wisecracked years later.
00:26:29Why did Lucian Loren put this kid on Secretariat in his first race?
00:26:32Where he got beat?
00:26:33Because Lucian wanted to cash a bet.
00:26:35There you go.
00:26:36Alex Trebek would never have accepted Benny Feliciano.
00:26:39Good job there.
00:26:40No, no, but the wrong Feliciano.
00:26:42Anyways, OK.
00:26:45All right. We do want to remind you that the TDN Writers Room
00:26:48is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:26:49And if you didn't know already, Keeneland has cataloged
00:26:53three thousand five hundred and sixty nine horses
00:26:57for its 80th November breeding stock sale.
00:26:59It'll begin on Wednesday, November the 8th and run nine sessions
00:27:03through Thursday, November the 16th.
00:27:06There is a standalone November of horses rage sale.
00:27:10The very following day, the breeding stock sale features
00:27:13proven producers, coveted broodmare prospects.
00:27:16Many of those that ran in the Breeders' Cup who were,
00:27:19of course, successful racehorses.
00:27:21There are a lot of royally bred weanlings at all levels of the market.
00:27:25The auction will open with a single day book one, which begins at 1 p.m.
00:27:29and will showcase an exceptional group of broodmares, broodmare
00:27:32prospects and weanlings.
00:27:34This week's racing at Keeneland produced a ton of black type updates
00:27:37to the catalog.
00:27:38Check them out at november.keeneland.com.
00:27:41We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:27:47At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:27:55Hands that see.
00:27:57That sense.
00:28:00That speak.
00:28:02Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:28:06Not for our sake.
00:28:09But for theirs.
00:28:11For the love of the horse.
00:28:13For generations to come.
00:28:15There were a plethora of Breeders' Cup win and you're in races
00:28:19all across the country.
00:28:21And I, of course, was concentrating on Santa Anita,
00:28:24where I caught up with some of the winning connections.
00:28:27Ladies and gentlemen, directing your attention to the winner.
00:28:29Circle and Zoe Cadman.
00:28:30Chasselas takes the grade two chandelier in fine fashion here
00:28:34with not only her owner, but also her breeder, Dan Agnew.
00:28:38Dan, how are you feeling right now?
00:28:40Cloud nine? Cloud nine.
00:28:42That would describe it.
00:28:43Yeah, especially, you know, with a home bred like this.
00:28:45It's a great thrill.
00:28:46And, you know, Mark's done a great job with the filly.
00:28:50The man that was on the farm, I'd sold some fillies out of this mare.
00:28:55He said, this is one I think you ought to keep.
00:28:57And I think he was right.
00:28:58You bred it to Gunrunner.
00:29:00He's done wonderful things this year already with some of his progeny.
00:29:04What was one of the main reasons?
00:29:05I think, you know, the way Gunrunner's, you know, proven
00:29:08he's a great sire of both fillies and colts
00:29:12was a big reason that I decided to keep her and race her.
00:29:15Onward to the Breeders' Cup.
00:29:16On to the Breeders' Cup.
00:29:17Yeah, we hope she comes out well and and looking forward to it.
00:29:22Didier takes the rodeo drive in fine fashion here.
00:29:25Here with her jockey, Vincent Cheminot.
00:29:27First time to California.
00:29:29First time at Santa Anita.
00:29:31It's a win and you're in. How are you feeling?
00:29:33I'm feeling good.
00:29:35I had a very good chance today.
00:29:37My filly was very good.
00:29:38She was good the morning, too.
00:29:41After the long break, you never know.
00:29:43But today, the level was very good for her.
00:29:45The pace was good, too.
00:29:46Everything was OK.
00:29:47It's a good filly and she deserved to win a great one for the future.
00:29:51Bob Baffert in the grade one American pharaoh.
00:29:54Mooth takes it.
00:29:56Did I say it as good as Frank?
00:29:58Very. You did a very good, great job.
00:30:01You run one, two in here with wind me up as well.
00:30:04You said it was a little bit of a surprising trip for Mooth.
00:30:07Well, I wind me up.
00:30:09I could tell he was getting really anxious before the game.
00:30:12And I was talking to the jockey after.
00:30:14I don't think he needs blinkers.
00:30:15I think he was just really keyed up.
00:30:17And they were these jockeys were on their own.
00:30:20And he did when he broke really great.
00:30:23He just went on to the lead, which was the right thing to do.
00:30:26And Juan, you know, he just took a hold of his horse and he got him to relax.
00:30:30And we've been working on that in the mornings a little bit, but not that much.
00:30:33But, you know, I got a great staff, you know, people that I got to give
00:30:38a lot of credit to.
00:30:39They work hard on these horses.
00:30:41And so but it was nice to see that,
00:30:45you know, last race that he had, he just went out there so fast.
00:30:48But we got him got him relaxed today.
00:30:50And I just love the way he kicked on.
00:30:52And I was proud of my other horse because he was starting to lose it there
00:30:55at the end.
00:30:56Winning you're in for the juvenile.
00:30:58You're in right, Bob.
00:31:00We'll have to for sure.
00:31:02I'm trying to get Speedboat Beach in there.
00:31:03We have Prince of Monaco. Don't forget him.
00:31:06And so we've got some we've got some some good ones.
00:31:09So hopefully we'll be alive.
00:31:10Well done, Bob. Thank you.
00:31:15Don't forget, we'll have no racing this Friday at Santa Anita,
00:31:19but we will kick up on Saturday and Sunday.
00:31:23This year's Santa Anita full meeting cumulates in the two day
00:31:26Breeders' Cup World Cup championships or tickets.
00:31:29There's still tickets.
00:31:30There's guys visit Breeders' Cup dot com slash tickets.
00:31:35What they now call Belmont at the Big A was the major focus in New York
00:31:40over the weekend, where on Saturday they had this meet used to be
00:31:44one of the great meets in American racing history.
00:31:47They're down to three grade one races, which is just mind boggling to me.
00:31:52But that shows you how much things have changed.
00:31:54And all three of them will run over the weekend.
00:31:56The Joe Hirsch, the Frisette and the Champagne.
00:31:59I'd like to start off with the Joe Hirsch Turf Classic.
00:32:02And what a cool horse were like goddesses.
00:32:05I mean, how can you not like her?
00:32:06This mayor who are in aid for a thousand dollars
00:32:09when she first went through the sales ring at Keeneland
00:32:12was later bought for thirty thousand dollars.
00:32:15And this is the second straight year she's won this race.
00:32:18Second straight year, she beat the males.
00:32:20She looked really good.
00:32:21She's age six.
00:32:22And I think that she goes now into the Breeders' Cup turf
00:32:25with a legitimate chance off of this.
00:32:27The other story is Rebels Romance, another Charlie Appleby horse
00:32:31who had had this, you know, year where nothing went right whatsoever
00:32:36after falling in the bowling green, thinking, you know,
00:32:39is he going to be all right?
00:32:40And is he be ready to run his best race?
00:32:43They made him the big favorite.
00:32:44He ran a lackluster fourth.
00:32:46And it doesn't look to me like a horse that is going to go on
00:32:49anytime soon to win a Breeders' Cup race or something else like that.
00:32:53And how about so high at ninety to one,
00:32:56got off to a 20 length lead down the backstretch
00:33:01and actually still led by almost that much on the turn
00:33:04and finished third in there.
00:33:06So didn't quite steal the race, but they did a pretty good job.
00:33:10So two thumbs up for Warlight Goddess.
00:33:13A couple of thumbs down for Rebels Romance, Zoe.
00:33:16Yeah, Rebels Romance just simply didn't handle the ground there,
00:33:19according to Charlie Appleby.
00:33:21So he was a toss.
00:33:22He faltered. He finished fifth.
00:33:24Yeah, that's where I was going to start, actually was so high.
00:33:27And I thought that was a brilliant ride by Romero Romage to just go
00:33:32as far as you can for as long as you can and open up 20 lengths.
00:33:37And you know what?
00:33:37The horse finished third, ran a good race and picked up 60,000
00:33:41for owner trainer, Paul, Nepal Chatterpool.
00:33:45So what's wrong with that?
00:33:46Picking up 60 grand for yourself.
00:33:48So I thought that was a good race.
00:33:50Warlight Goddess.
00:33:51Wow. Much like her sire, English Channel, who took down
00:33:56the was the Breeders' Cup turf in the monsoon at Monmouth.
00:33:59Were you there that year, Randy, for the monsoon?
00:34:02Oh, yeah. 2007.
00:34:04So much like her sire, she splashed home much the best.
00:34:08I don't know if it's right, but they said it was a track record
00:34:11for the mile and a half over that yielding ground, which I really
00:34:15I can't quite believe it was a track record.
00:34:18But it says on the Equibase chart, it was a track record.
00:34:21So I'm going to go with that terrific ride by Junior Alvarado.
00:34:24And she certainly did show that she loved that going.
00:34:28And George Krikorian, what a banner afternoon
00:34:31he had with just FYI as well winning.
00:34:34Like that's that's a career right there for George Krikorian.
00:34:38That was fantastic.
00:34:40I was at Monmouth in 2007.
00:34:44ESPN had the Breeders' Cup then.
00:34:47We had our backs facing the weather
00:34:50and we were rained upon, torrential rain coming into our set
00:34:55like the entire show.
00:34:56And I remember getting back, I had a blue suit on
00:34:58and I got back to the hotel room and I had a white shirt underneath.
00:35:01And the back of my shirt was completely stained blue
00:35:06from the fabric of the suit I was wearing,
00:35:09getting so wet from all the rain coming out of Monmouth.
00:35:12But anyway, let's talk about horse racing.
00:35:14This race was a great race.
00:35:16The Joe Hirsch, I mean, you know, it had Rebels romance.
00:35:19It had Stone Age. It had Warlike Goddess.
00:35:22It had Soldier Rising.
00:35:24And as a handicapping tool
00:35:28for the Breeders' Cup turf, pretend as if it never ran.
00:35:33Just completely draw a line through it and completely ignore it.
00:35:39When you look ahead to the Breeders' Cup turf, it means nothing.
00:35:43They went a mile and a half in two.
00:35:47Let me look at the chart.
00:35:47Two thirty two and four.
00:35:51This was a track record.
00:35:53It's oh no, that that wasn't close to a track record.
00:35:55It was no bottomless, bottomless turf.
00:35:59That's why a 90 to one shot could open up 20 lengths
00:36:04and outrun Rebels romance.
00:36:06The reason why Charlie Appleby brings Rebels romance to the United States
00:36:09is he likes hard, firm turf.
00:36:12And that's what you get over here.
00:36:13And he gets this in the Joe Hirsch.
00:36:16So I think you're giving up a little too quickly on Rebels romance.
00:36:19I think when he gets out to Santa Anita and gets firm turf,
00:36:22you could see the old Rebels romance resurface
00:36:27with better footing.
00:36:28Warlike Goddess, if you go back and look at her past performances,
00:36:31she's a perfect five for five
00:36:34on any race course rated other than firm.
00:36:38She's buying this channel who loved it.
00:36:40She loves softish turf with the give in the ground.
00:36:44And so no surprise at all to me that she was the one that prevailed.
00:36:48Soft turf like that accentuates her natural stamina,
00:36:51which we know that she has in spades.
00:36:54And so I think she's going to be over bet when she gets to the Breeders Cup.
00:36:58And I think Rebels romance is going to be under bet
00:37:01when he gets to the Breeders Cup.
00:37:02Just ignore the Joe Hirsch turf classic from a handicapping perspective,
00:37:07because it means it means zero on firm turf at Santa Anita.
00:37:13Several other big races over the weekend at the Big A.
00:37:17Zoe mentioned just FYI won the frisette for George Kikorian and Bill Mott.
00:37:21The connections that brought you Warlike Goddess.
00:37:23Champagne won by Timberlake.
00:37:25Fierceness seventh is the two to five favorite.
00:37:28That's a race I think you can put a line through on him.
00:37:30He just had a miserable trip.
00:37:33Sunday, the Bell Dame randomized.
00:37:34We talked about her.
00:37:35She won easily in a four horse field.
00:37:37And with all the miserable weather we've had in New York
00:37:40over the last couple of weekends and three straight Saturdays,
00:37:44three straight weekends of just horrible weather.
00:37:47We had a match race in the Demoiselles.
00:37:49Jerry Mander wins the great match race of the Nobel Demoiselles by 25 lengths.
00:37:55Zoe, what else stood out to you as one of the highlights
00:37:58of the Belmont at the Big A races?
00:38:00I mean, you got to like Timberlake's win over that sloppy racetrack.
00:38:04I'm not I'm not sure what's gone on with fierceness
00:38:07because he did get off to a very awkward start.
00:38:11I hope he didn't hurt himself after stumbling and lunging like he did.
00:38:15But, you know, he proved at Saratoga that he could handle an off racetrack.
00:38:19So other than getting a little bit of dirt in his face,
00:38:23I think he probably should have run better than that.
00:38:25Timberlake is a horse that they've always thought an awful lot of.
00:38:29If you watched him work at Saratoga this summer, you'd be like, wow,
00:38:33who's that that just blew down the lane there?
00:38:35And that was Timberlake.
00:38:36So he definitely really improved.
00:38:40He was rank in that hopeful run.
00:38:42Brad Cox has a superb record of taking the blinkers off horses.
00:38:46And that's exactly what works a treat with Timberlake as well as loving the footing.
00:38:51So he stood out to me in the grade one champagne
00:38:55and just FYI by Justify.
00:38:59She's a beautiful big filly, stands over a lot of ground,
00:39:02watching her in the paddock prior to her maiden when we were worried
00:39:06that she wasn't going to be able to get up going six furlongs
00:39:08because she's just absolutely massive.
00:39:11Looks like she's still got some growing to do.
00:39:14But I thought she was very, very impressive and has really thrown her
00:39:18hat into the ring for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies.
00:39:20Really? OK.
00:39:22Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:24I don't like anything that came out of the aqueduct except for Timberlake.
00:39:29I don't think Justify has a prayer.
00:39:31I don't think the winner of the chandelier at Santa Anita has a prayer.
00:39:35I think Tamara is going to be the heaviest favorite
00:39:38of any of the Breeders' Cup races in the Juvenile Fillies out there.
00:39:41I think she'll be three to five.
00:39:43And I'll be shocked if anybody other than Tamara, although Candide
00:39:48and Bibi's Dream ran pretty well in the Alcibites at Keeneland.
00:39:52So but look, I share your opinion about Timberlake.
00:39:56I thought he ran really well.
00:39:58He was entered in the Breeders' Futurity and scratched.
00:40:01Brad Cox also had a horse in there he was really high on named Awesome Road,
00:40:05who didn't run very well at all.
00:40:08But the reason why Cox decided to leave Awesome Road at Keeneland
00:40:12and to send Timberlake up to New York is that he thought Timberlake
00:40:16would be better suited for a one turn mile than Awesome Road would be.
00:40:21But looking at the way he won the champagne and looking at his pedigree,
00:40:24I think Timberlake will be just fine at a mile and a sixteenth two turns at Santa Anita.
00:40:29I loved the way he set behind horses.
00:40:32He got involved in a pace duel in the hopeful stakes
00:40:35in his previous race that did him no favors.
00:40:37This time he relaxed nicely behind horses.
00:40:40Chad Brown had a horse named General Partner in the champagne
00:40:43that was absolutely controlling the pace, going so easy on the front end.
00:40:47And Timberlake still ran up to him and ran him down.
00:40:51So I don't like Timberlake as much as I like Locked
00:40:55or as much as maybe Prince of Monaco or Muth.
00:40:58But I think he he deserves to be in the mix, obviously,
00:41:01for the Juvedal off that champagne effort.
00:41:03Randy mentioned the races at Santa Anita, including the Chandelier.
00:41:07To me, the story out of Santa Anita was not necessarily who won the two year old races,
00:41:13but the two horses that weren't in them that are looking more and more
00:41:17like absolute monsters.
00:41:20And Randy mentioned Tamara.
00:41:23She did not run in the Chandelier.
00:41:26Dick Mandela put her in bubble wrap, which is what people like to do these days,
00:41:29and is going to train her up to the Breeders' Cup.
00:41:32So a horse by the name of Chattelis, who lost to her by twelve
00:41:36and three quarter lengths last time out.
00:41:39She wins the Chandelier.
00:41:40Now we turn to the American pharaoh, pretty much the same story.
00:41:44Prince of Monaco, a 103 buyer and the best pal.
00:41:47Beats his stable mate, Muth, pretty convincingly in that race.
00:41:52Prince of Monaco skips the American pharaoh.
00:41:54Baffert decides to go with Muth.
00:41:57Muth looks very good, wins by three and three quarter lengths, gets a 91 buyer.
00:42:01If Chattelis and Muth are that good, how good are Tamara and Prince of Monaco?
00:42:07That's why, Randy, I was a little surprised when you said
00:42:09that you looked at Locke as maybe the horse to beat
00:42:13in the Breeders' Cup Juvedal and not Prince of Monaco.
00:42:16Yeah, I do.
00:42:16Look, to me, this is a this is a redo of the 2022 Breeders' Cup
00:42:24Juvenile with different names.
00:42:26OK, last year you had Forte for Todd Pletcher,
00:42:30winner of the Breeders' Futurity, and Bob Baffert out in California
00:42:33had Cave Rock and he had National Treasure.
00:42:35OK, now instead of Forte, you've got Locke.
00:42:40And instead of Cave Rock and National Treasure,
00:42:42you've got Prince of Monaco and Muth.
00:42:45And I think they're very comparable in a lot of different ways.
00:42:49So it's going to be really interesting to see what happens now.
00:42:52Of course, this is Santa Anita Breeders' Cup instead of Keeneland,
00:42:54which would theoretically favor Baffert's horses a little more than Shippingham East.
00:43:00But yeah, I mean, I mean, Zoe, you're out there.
00:43:04You see Prince of Monaco. We've seen Muth.
00:43:06We know what Muth is.
00:43:07First of all, what did you think about Muth's win?
00:43:09And what have you seen from Prince of Monaco?
00:43:12Muth was excellent.
00:43:13And Bob's been working with Muth in the mornings to get him to relax.
00:43:17Now, it was a two million dollar purchase.
00:43:19He was brilliant on debut.
00:43:21I had him honestly pegged as a one turn kind of sprintery horse
00:43:25because he is a compact looking individual.
00:43:28But watching his final work leading up to the American Pharaoh, it swayed me.
00:43:33He worked really good and got over the track really well.
00:43:35Lest us not forget the good magic
00:43:37when the juvenile going around two turns breaking his maiden.
00:43:41So that swayed me.
00:43:42So that put me back onto Muth, especially because he'd outworked
00:43:45Prince of Monaco the week before, in my opinion.
00:43:49Now, Prince of Monaco, there's nothing wrong with him.
00:43:51He came back and worked on Sunday.
00:43:53So I have to say that Muth's race
00:43:58in the grade one American Pharaoh was quite simply brilliant.
00:44:02Now, it didn't work out quite how Bob wanted it to.
00:44:05I did like his other horse as well.
00:44:06Wind me up.
00:44:07But he was a little antsy in the post parade, a little jittery
00:44:10and went straight to the lead, which forced J.J.
00:44:13Hernandez to take this horse back, get him to settle.
00:44:16And he finished like I've not seen him before.
00:44:19So I'm not going to toss out Muth like I tossed out Cave Rock last year
00:44:24because Muth has so much more upside now.
00:44:27He's been allowed to settle and grow up and relax a little bit.
00:44:31And he could very well give Locke to run for his money.
00:44:34Why did you toss out Cave Rock last year?
00:44:36I don't remember.
00:44:38I just thought he was a one turn sprinter.
00:44:41Well, you were probably right in hindsight.
00:44:44Yeah, that that was me watching him work in the morning.
00:44:47He never really jumped off the bridle.
00:44:49He was always on the bridle.
00:44:51And what Muth's been able to do in the morning and just relax like he's done
00:44:56was to me brilliant because it's not often you see
00:45:00you see brilliance from Bob's horses all the time, but you don't see that
00:45:04kind of brilliance, relaxing and settling off the pace
00:45:07and eating a little bit of dirt because no one schools their horses
00:45:10behind other horses anymore.
00:45:12That seems to be a lost art.
00:45:14Dick Mandela is the only one that seems to manage to do that.
00:45:17As far as the chandelier, Chatelus, Gunrunner again,
00:45:21showing what a great sire he is.
00:45:23She's you know, she's not much to look at, but she got the job done.
00:45:27A lot of eyes were on Laurent.
00:45:28She simply didn't show up.
00:45:30It looks like she's probably going to get a break for Peter Urton.
00:45:33And yeah, I don't think the West is leading the way
00:45:36with the two-year-old fillies other other than Tamara,
00:45:41who still is sensational in the mornings and will be the one to beat for sure.
00:45:46Horse that's flown under the radar, Didio won the Rodeo Drive.
00:45:50She's now five or six in the U.S.
00:45:51for trainer Ignacio Correas, the fourth, beat Anicet.
00:45:57We will also learn more about her from Erin Wellman,
00:46:00but she's unlikely to come back in the Breeders' Cup Philly.
00:46:03Mayor Turf, Didio certainly has the credentials
00:46:06to be a major factor in that race.
00:46:09Yeah, she looks terrific.
00:46:10I mean, Vincent Cheminot rode her perfectly.
00:46:12He's won five of six on her.
00:46:14She's going to stay out here.
00:46:16Nachos coming out this week.
00:46:18So she'll she'll be allowed to stay in the sunshine
00:46:20and not have to ship back across the country, which is good.
00:46:23But she was much, much the best in that race.
00:46:27Let's hear about P.A.
00:46:28You want to hear about P.A.
00:46:29Breads? All right.
00:46:30Well, first of all, TD and Riders are brought to you, as usual,
00:46:33by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:46:36We talk a lot about Pennsylvania breads.
00:46:37We talk quite a bit about Caravelle.
00:46:39We'll talk about her a little bit more later in this podcast.
00:46:42She's running at a Franklin at Keeneland this weekend.
00:46:45She's trying to win it for the second year in a row.
00:46:47Of course, she beat the boys last year after winning the Franklin
00:46:49in the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint, which is probably going to be
00:46:52the ultimate goal, obviously, again this year.
00:46:53Now, you guys, Bill had his trivia question about Secretariat.
00:46:57What are the Jockey Road Secretariat?
00:46:59If you guys get this trivia question, I am going to just bow.
00:47:04This is this is this would be Jeopardy for 20,000.
00:47:08OK, Caravelle is trying to become the second horse ever
00:47:12to win the Franklin in back to back years.
00:47:15OK. Oh, my God.
00:47:17OK, I'll give you the years
00:47:20of the original back to back winner of the Franklin 98 and 99.
00:47:25I would give you the trainer if I could remember his name.
00:47:29Any idea who went back to back in 98, 99?
00:47:33No. OK, now Caravelle did it.
00:47:35She's a Pennsylvania bred.
00:47:37A Georgia bred went back to back in 98 and 99,
00:47:41of course, by the name of Ariel Delight.
00:47:43Well, that's what Caravelle is going to be trying to do.
00:47:46She's going to try to go back to back again in the Franklin.
00:47:49Meanwhile, the last leg of the two year old one million dollar Pennsylvania
00:47:52sired Pennsylvania bred stallion series.
00:47:54Don't forget, December 27th, we're now up to two hundred thousand dollars
00:47:59for the stakes races for Phillies and Colts at a mile and 70 yards.
00:48:02Now, to make sure your two year old is nominated, go to the PA bred dot com
00:48:07website. He's not nominated.
00:48:09Contact the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association by email at info
00:48:13at PA bread dot com.
00:48:15Now this message from the PHBA.
00:48:18The PA Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania stallion series.
00:48:23Six races for PA sired, PA bred two year olds at parks.
00:48:27Two one hundred thousand dollar contests at five and a half furlongs.
00:48:31On August 21st, PA day at the races.
00:48:34September 23rd, PA Derby Day has two races at six and a half furlongs,
00:48:39both with a one hundred fifty thousand dollar purse.
00:48:42And in December, two races going long, each worth two hundred thousand dollars.
00:48:46For more, go to PA bred dot com.
00:48:48The TD and Riders Room brought to you by the Fast Sires at One Star Farm,
00:48:52the sponsor every week of this fastest horse of the week segment.
00:48:56Our spotlight sire this time is Life is Good.
00:49:01We know the sons of Into Mischief are fast.
00:49:04And but who is the fastest son of Into Mischief at stud?
00:49:08And that, of course, would be Life is Good with nine triple digit fires,
00:49:13including a one twelve.
00:49:15And you talk about a horse that's doing well in the stallion barn.
00:49:18He bred one hundred ninety two mares this year, and he has a new stud fee
00:49:22beginning in twenty twenty four of eighty five thousand dollars.
00:49:27With numbers like that, Life is Good is not just good.
00:49:29He is brilliant.
00:49:31And he stands, of course, at One Star Farm fastest horse of the week.
00:49:34It's a tie.
00:49:35We've talked about both of them already.
00:49:37Gina Romanica, of course, with with one oh five in the First Lady
00:49:41and Warlight Goddess with the one oh five in the Joe Hirsch.
00:49:44Now, anybody that knows anything about speed figures,
00:49:48these two figures could not have been more different
00:49:52in terms of how they were earned.
00:49:54The pace was so slow in the Joe Hirsch that any fig maker,
00:49:59not just fire speed figures, but Theragraff, Ragazin, you name it.
00:50:03It's an educated guess.
00:50:05The one oh five for Warlight Goddess.
00:50:07There's really no way to be confident in any number when a pace is that slow.
00:50:12It throws the type of final time in this case, what, two thirty two and four
00:50:15just throws things totally out of whack.
00:50:17But in terms of Gina Romanica, you also had the Coolmore
00:50:21Turf Mile as a barometer, and the two races were very similarly paced.
00:50:27So you can be very confident in the one oh five that Gina Romanica earned.
00:50:31And we'll see whether or not she goes forward to the Breeders' Cup
00:50:33killing her turn.
00:50:38The TDN Writer's Room brought to you by the Green Group,
00:50:41of course, the sponsor of our Green Group guest of the week.
00:50:43The Green Group is a tax consulting and advisory firm that specializes
00:50:47in the thoroughbred business and specializes in saving you money on your taxes.
00:50:54Welcome in now the Green Group guest of the week.
00:50:56It's the head of the Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners, Aaron Willman.
00:50:59What a terrific weekend Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners had at Keeneland.
00:51:03They won the Darley Alcibiades with Candied on Friday
00:51:07and came back to win the Breeders' Futurity
00:51:10with Locked the following day.
00:51:12I believe he said this is the first stable in Keeneland's history
00:51:15to win both those races back to back.
00:51:18We bring in now Aaron Willman.
00:51:20And Aaron, I want to talk all about those races and all the success you've had.
00:51:23But let's see if we could perhaps break some news here first
00:51:27on the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:51:30Not a great afternoon for Nest in the spinster.
00:51:33We know that's not her.
00:51:34We know what a great horse she has been throughout her career.
00:51:37Fourth beaten a dozen or so lengths.
00:51:40What does that mean for her status for the Breeders' Cup this staff?
00:51:43Look, as always, we'll do what's in the best interest of the horse,
00:51:47no matter who the horse is, whether it's Nest, a champion
00:51:50or, you know, the lowest horse on the depth chart.
00:51:53We're going to make sure that we do what's best for the horse.
00:51:55Nest, as you said, didn't have her best day on Sunday in the spinster.
00:52:00But to answer your question, I think we're just going to have to evaluate her
00:52:05over the next 10 days to two weeks and see how she responds to that outing.
00:52:11Todd Pletcher is going to consolidate all of his Breeders' Cup hopefuls at Keeneland.
00:52:15So she's already there, which is nice.
00:52:17It makes it simple.
00:52:19And we'll just monitor.
00:52:21Obviously, she's been in the barn for two and a half years.
00:52:23We know her inside and out.
00:52:25She's a pretty easy tell when she's right.
00:52:28She lets us know.
00:52:29And if she's not up to it, there's no way she'll get on that plane.
00:52:32But we're certainly hoping that she gives us all the signals to give us
00:52:36the confidence to head out to California.
00:52:40Her last two races have been just a little bit subpar.
00:52:43Has she given you any indication that she might have been like, I've had enough?
00:52:48Because having watched her all summer in Saratoga, she looked phenomenal
00:52:52this past summer.
00:52:54Yeah, you know, we're not a stable that likes to hang our hat on excuses.
00:52:59But I'd like to think that she's deserving of a few excuses over the last couple of races.
00:53:07At Saratoga, the track was an absolute quagmire that day.
00:53:12She didn't seem to enjoy herself all that much on the surface, on the occasion.
00:53:18All credit to Idiomatic.
00:53:20She did everything right and took advantage of it.
00:53:24But, you know, she's been gifted some pretty easy leads in the last two races
00:53:28in the personal ensign and then the other day in the spinster.
00:53:32So I think it was a function of circumstance that day in the personal ensign.
00:53:37She was also coming into heat, which didn't help matters.
00:53:41So we kind of drew a line through that one.
00:53:44Then coming into the spinster, the game plan was really to take it to Idiomatic early
00:53:49and not let her get away with soft fractions.
00:53:53And if you watch the warm up, Ira had warmed Nest up with purpose.
00:53:58She was so sharp and I was just brimming with confidence going into the gate.
00:54:03And it was almost like we sharpened her up too much in the warm up because it was hard to tell.
00:54:09But she did lunge while she was waiting for the gate to spring open.
00:54:12She banged her head against the gate.
00:54:14I'm pretty sure it rang her bell.
00:54:15Ira thought it did.
00:54:17And then she was a bit dazed when they did open the gates and she didn't break at all.
00:54:21And from there, it was just a mess.
00:54:23And again, all credit to Idiomatic not taking anything away from her and her connection.
00:54:28She's a fantastic filly and deserving of these two wins.
00:54:32But everything that could have gone right for her went wrong for us.
00:54:35And we're hoping that if Nest shows us that she's in the mood to make this trip out to California for the Distaff,
00:54:44that with the presence of Adair Manor and a couple other speed fillies, they might keep Idiomatic honest.
00:54:50And that could set it up a little bit better for Nest.
00:54:52But at the end of the day, her last two races have been subpar.
00:54:56And she's definitely going to have to be showing us that she's at the top of her game in order to justify going out for the Distaff.
00:55:03And also, she's entered in the Fasig-Timden November sale right after the Breeders' Cup.
00:55:08So we'll be keeping our eye on that.
00:55:10All right. So, Aaron, let's talk about better things now.
00:55:12Your big wins.
00:55:13You start off the weekend in the Darley Alcibades with a win by Candied.
00:55:17And she looked good on paper.
00:55:19She broke her maiden at Saratoga by three quarters of a length, got a 76 by her.
00:55:24But this was a tough race.
00:55:26You have Vivi's Dream in there coming off that big blowout win in the Pocahontas.
00:55:30And then Brightwork, of course, who was the leading filly in the division coming in.
00:55:34What was your confidence level with Candied?
00:55:37And were even you a little bit surprised that she pulled this off?
00:55:41Our confidence level was guarded going into it.
00:55:44It was a big ask to go from a three quarter debut win at Saratoga to a mile in a 16th grade one at Keeneland.
00:55:49Especially against the field that you just mentioned.
00:55:52But she's a filly that has always exhibited a supreme level of talent.
00:55:57That said, she's given us fits ever since she got down to Susan Montaigne at Winding Oaks
00:56:03in Ocala throughout the winter and the spring.
00:56:06She's got this just resistance to switching leads when she's supposed to switch leads.
00:56:12And Susan got her to do it a few times.
00:56:14She's a master horsewoman and a few guys on her riding staff.
00:56:18But by and large, from the time she was broken and all the way through her training with Todd Pletcher,
00:56:24she just never would switch leads.
00:56:27So it was something that we were concerned about going two turns off of one sprint race.
00:56:31Is staying on her left lead all the way around the oval going to blunt her ability to polish off a race of this magnitude?
00:56:38But one thing I'll give Todd Pletcher, of course, credit.
00:56:42Anytime you train a filly to win debut, go in six furlongs and then win a grade one after that.
00:56:47With just that one start under her belt is just epic achievement.
00:56:51But also, Louie Saez is the kind of rider that really suits her, because if they're running for Louie, he just leaves him alone.
00:56:58He doesn't try to make them do something that they don't want to do.
00:57:01He just keeps the momentum going.
00:57:03And I think you've seen that in her two races.
00:57:06I would say I was mildly surprised.
00:57:08We were hoping to get valuable grade one black type with her.
00:57:11We thought we'd accomplish that.
00:57:13And anything beyond that would be cherry on top of the cake.
00:57:16But, you know, she's a very gifted filly.
00:57:18She's done nothing wrong.
00:57:20Again, she's going to have to take another step forward.
00:57:22We've got Tamara waiting in her home court, you know, for the juvenile fillies.
00:57:28So this is going to be another huge ask.
00:57:29But I don't think there's any ceiling to her limitations at this point as far as Candide is concerned.
00:57:36Yeah, she's certainly a very nice filly indeed.
00:57:38So you've got her for the juvenile fillies.
00:57:41And then let's talk about Locht.
00:57:43And I want to go back to his maiden run, his debut run, where he was 12 to 1.
00:57:50We'd watch him in the morning.
00:57:51He doesn't really light up anybody's stopwatch in the morning watching him work.
00:57:56But what were you hoping for in his debut?
00:57:58And what did he show you after the race?
00:58:01Well, whereas Candide was always a quirky filly that gave us great concern because there's nothing more frustrating than a really talented horse that can't execute when it matters.
00:58:11And when you don't train professionally, that's your concern that they're not going to translate that talent onto the racetrack.
00:58:18With Locht, it was the exact opposite.
00:58:20He was broken down in Ocala by Ocala stud David O'Farrell and his staff.
00:58:24And he, from the beginning, was a horse that asserted himself as a superior talent.
00:58:29And there were absolutely no quirks about him.
00:58:32He was just professional.
00:58:33And one of his greatest attributes is he's so laid back.
00:58:36He's wise beyond his years.
00:58:38And even though he's got that innate ability, he only does what he's asked to do.
00:58:44And so you were up in Saratoga all summer and you saw these horses breeze week in and week out.
00:58:49You could see what Candide was doing and why she was causing us fits.
00:58:52And you could see Locht.
00:58:53He was rather unassuming.
00:58:55But every time he was sort of asked the question, he was there to answer it.
00:59:00So going into his debut, we knew he was a horse that was going to require added distance.
00:59:05And we wanted to give him that educational sprint.
00:59:08And man, Jose Ortiz gave him the perfect seasoning outing.
00:59:13He had some trouble at the start, which wasn't by design, but it shuffled him to the back of the pack.
00:59:18He was able to take dirt, pick up the pace, going into the far turn, weave his way through traffic and then finish with gusto.
00:59:26And he galloped out monster that day.
00:59:28And I distinctly remember I happened to be in Saratoga and walking down the stairs to unsaddle him.
00:59:33I was with Todd and I said to him, I said, what about the hopeful?
00:59:37I think we can win the hopeful with this horse.
00:59:39And he said, one mile maiden race at the end of the meet, Breeders Futurity, Breeders Cup.
00:59:46And when Todd has those visions and that ambition, you know what type of regard he holds that horse in.
00:59:54And thankfully, we executed the one mile maiden race and then we got the job done in the Breeders Futurity.
01:00:00So touch wood, we've got one more notch on the belt to execute come Breeders Cup.
01:00:07Aaron, if I had told you before the race that you were going to be four or five wide on both turns, would you have still thought that you could get the win?
01:00:15Look, he was three to five on Saturday, and that was ridiculous, in my opinion, for a horse that was facing the type of field that he was facing.
01:00:26That was not an empty starting gate.
01:00:28That was a serious group of colts that lined up against him.
01:00:31And while we appreciate the respect he was given at the betting windows, in my handicapping, I didn't make him three to five by any stretch of the imagination.
01:00:39When the post positions came out, I didn't mind that he was drawn wide because he's such a big, long striding, high cruising speed type individual that if we could keep him in the clear, that would be OK.
01:00:50We just didn't want to be five wide going into the first turn and five or six wide around the far turn.
01:00:56But Jose had to make some decisions during the course of this race.
01:01:00He was wide and chasing into a pretty soft pace.
01:01:04And Jose pushed the button at the right time, which under normal circumstances probably would have been a little premature.
01:01:11But considering the slow fractions, knowing that horses were going to finish in front of him and the short stretch, I thought it was a really smart ride on Jose's part.
01:01:19And as we were talking about the way he trained, he was just there for Jose.
01:01:24It did concern me a little bit when he had so much momentum coming off the elbow of the turn and didn't separate from the wine steward.
01:01:32And as we saw at Keeneland on Saturday, the inside part of the track was pretty good.
01:01:37You saw Ujiri come back on Wicked Halo in the TCA.
01:01:42And I was very concerned inside the eighth pole that the wine steward, who was an undefeated horse with three races, a very good horse, multiple stakes winner by Vino Rosso, figured to appreciate the added distance that he wasn't going
01:01:54to let back down. And he didn't.
01:01:56But you could tell that Locke was kind of reserving in the tank and Jose got him one time and he surged and got the job done.
01:02:06What was really interesting is he pricked his ears forward at the wire.
01:02:08So hopefully that's an indication that he had a little bit more left in the tank.
01:02:12But I'm glad that he got battle tested going into the Breeders' Cup because that's the kind of seasoning you need in order to stamp yourself a champion.
01:02:21And Randy Moss, who was not able to make this part of the podcast segment, he had a prior commitment, he's come right out.
01:02:29Locke is the pick in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile over Prince of Monaco.
01:02:32So you impressed a pretty smart handicapper there.
01:02:36But that's going to be a tough field, though, that those Baffert horses, Muth and Prince of Monaco, are tough.
01:02:43Absolutely. I mean, you've got Bob Baffert sitting in his backyard waiting for everybody to show up.
01:02:47That's a huge advantage.
01:02:49And he just wins these races year after year.
01:02:53And look, you've got Timberlake, who was extremely impressive, winning the Champagne on Saturday as well.
01:02:59He's a very gifted horse.
01:03:01I didn't mind seeing him divert to New York instead of staying in Kentucky.
01:03:05So it's a deep group of two-year-old colts this year.
01:03:09And anyone who wins it is going to be a deserving champion and probably mark the favorite for the Kentucky Derby.
01:03:17But if Locke continues to train accordingly and come into the race, well, we'll certainly be going over there with conviction that he's the horse to beat.
01:03:30Aaron, Eclipse Thoroughbreds has prided themselves over the years in picking up horses for marginal sums.
01:03:37At Canny, $165,000, Fasig-Tipps in October, Locke's $425,000.
01:03:42But this year, Eclipse, along with some other partners, bought 18 yearlings at Keeneland, good for, I think, $5.3 million.
01:03:52You spent some money, you brought some nice colts.
01:03:55What's the mindset for Eclipse moving forward?
01:03:59Well, we're always seeking value, Zoe.
01:04:02In this market, if you want to play at the top of the game, you've got such incredible bloodstock agents, eyes for talent that have a lot of money behind them that are all trying to either hit the home run with a stallion prospect or have that knock it out of the park filly.
01:04:18And we've been able, over the last 12 years since our stable was founded, to find our spots, pick and choose, fly underneath the radar.
01:04:27We'll take our swings on occasion.
01:04:28Our first seven-figure acquisition was Tappert as a yearling.
01:04:32Thankfully, he followed through with a classic win and got a stallion deal at Gainesway Farm.
01:04:37But you just sort of have to go into every sale, every private acquisition, hoping that, A, you're right about the talent that you're perceiving in that individual, and, B, landing value for your partners that are putting up their hard-earned money to have these individuals.
01:04:56And the faith that they put in the Eclipse program is immense.
01:05:02We're very humbled by the fact that we've got such an incredible partner base that answers the call every time we ring the bell.
01:05:10And, you know, I don't think that there is a game plan other than we have made it a point from the beginning of our stable to not just seek talent and find equine athletes, but we believe that our equine portfolio needs to be founded on fillies.
01:05:25If you're going to stand the test of time in this game and try to make any economic sense of it whatsoever, you've got to have your portfolio based on fillies.
01:05:36And, you know, we think we've earned that moniker, hashtag Eclipse fillies, over the years with so many good fillies.
01:05:42And, yes, will we take our swings here and there for those stallion prospect profiled colts?
01:05:48Absolutely.
01:05:50We've got a certain demographic of our partner base that wants to go after those types of colts.
01:05:56And then we've got the guys that really believe in the fillies.
01:05:58So it's a really good blend of partners and support that we've got.
01:06:02And at the end of the day, we're just out there trying to perform our due diligence the best we can, find the horses that we think can represent the baby blue and black on Saturday afternoons and provide our partners with a great racing experience on and off the racetrack.
01:06:18And hopefully make some history.
01:06:20Aaron, one more horse to ask you about before we let you go.
01:06:23You had a second place finish in the Rodeo Drive with Anna Sett, ran into a tough customer in Didia.
01:06:29She ran very well.
01:06:30Her first loss in the United States since coming over from Great Britain.
01:06:35She's only a three year old.
01:06:36But your trainer, Leonard Powell, has been quoted saying she will not run in the Breeders' Cup.
01:06:41Why not?
01:06:42Yeah, you know, it was a interesting decision after she won the Del Mar Oaks so handily.
01:06:50You know, she had done nothing wrong, established herself as the elite in the division in Southern California.
01:06:56But the reason we stayed home is A, because we wanted to test her at a mile and a quarter.
01:07:02B, we thought that just keeping her home would be advantageous for her long term development.
01:07:07And C, it was a perfect opportunity for her to run against older fillies for the first time in a graded stakes race.
01:07:13And to be able to run out of her own stall at Santa Anita at the trip that the Breeders' Cup filly and mare turf would be on against older fillies, we thought was the ideal test.
01:07:23And I think she ran a dynamite race in defeat behind a legitimate, bona fide grade one older filly in Didia.
01:07:32She got the best of us on the occasion.
01:07:33And as a three-year-old, my attitude going into the Rodeo Drive was that Anisette was going to have to win that race and win it rather convincingly in order to justify a trip to the filly and mare turf.
01:07:46Now, while I thought she ran an exceptional race on the occasion in defeat, I don't think it was quite good enough to warrant running against older fillies and mares again in the Breeders' Cup.
01:07:58You're going to have a huge European influence.
01:08:00You're going to get more fillies from the East Coast that are going to be in that field.
01:08:05And she's such a good, high-quality filly that I think if we peel back, let the big dogs bang heads in the Breeders' Cup, maybe we look for something like the matriarch at Del Mar in the fall, maybe the American Oaks to cap off her season and then give her a little break and work backwards, we're going to have a really nice filly next year.
01:08:23So, look, as much as we'd love to have another runner in the Breeders' Cup, we're going to treat her like the good horse she is.
01:08:30And hopefully our partners will be able to cap off the year in style and then go into next year and hopefully develop a campaign that will get her to the Breeders' Cup next season.
01:08:39Well, Aaron, congratulations on a terrific weekend for Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners, two grade one races on back-to-back days at Keeneland.
01:08:47We'll see you at the Breeders' Cup.
01:08:48Best of luck, my friend.
01:08:50Hold on a sec.
01:08:50I just want to get a big shot of where Aaron is, because it looks like he's surrounded by some fantastic saddle towels.
01:08:57What have you got behind you, Aaron?
01:08:59Yeah, this is a little display that I've got to remind me of all these great horses that have gotten us to where we are.
01:09:08Because at the end of the day, without these horses doing it out on the racetrack, there is no Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners.
01:09:15But yeah, I'm in my office here at Del Mar after a long but successful weekend at Keeneland.
01:09:20And I pick and choose some special ones that might hit a little closer to the heart.
01:09:25But yeah, I can't really see what's behind me.
01:09:28I think Sherring, of course, who was a Breeders' Cup winner, and Nest, and maybe Aloha West, and Taprit, and Carolina, you know, the who's who of our stable over the years.
01:09:39But yeah, I'd like to keep little reminders to respect what's been done and hopefully continue to strive to improve daily so that we can keep these colors posing for photos in grade ones.
01:09:53Terrific.
01:09:54Well, Aaron, once again, thanks so much for joining us here as the Green Group Guest of the Week on the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
01:10:00And best of luck going forward.
01:10:01Looks like you could have a big Breeders' Cup.
01:10:03Really appreciate it.
01:10:04Thanks for thinking of me.
01:10:05And thanks for all you guys do.
01:10:06Keep up the good work.
01:10:07Really appreciate it.
01:10:08Thanks, Aaron.
01:10:09As this week's Green Group Guest of the Week, Mr. Aaron Wellman will receive a free one-hour tax consultation from Lynn Green and Company at the Green Group.
01:10:19For more information, again, on how the Green Group can put more money in your pocket after taxes, you can go to www.greenco.com.
01:10:50Like Eclipse Award-winning champions, Jaywalk and Wonderwheel.
01:10:53His DJ Stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
01:10:59Lynn Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the Green Group the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred business.
01:11:13For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
01:11:25The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
01:11:29Flightline is in full flight.
01:11:32Flightline turns it on at the top of the stretch and he's in cruise control.
01:11:37And Flightline takes off.
01:11:40Take a good look at this because you're not going to see this too often, maybe never again.
01:11:45Flightline, 20 lanes clear.
01:11:48World-class racehorse, world-class performance at a world championship event.
01:11:59Do I want to remind you that the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by the Lane's End Stallion of the Week.
01:12:04And this week, it is their newest stallion prospect and most recent Grade 1 winner.
01:12:10His name, we already spoke about him, is Up to the Mark, who closed with a rush to take Saturday's Grade 1 Coolmore Turf Mile.
01:12:18Up to the Mark looked like he might have left it too much to do, but he delivered a flying finish to get up and win by a long nose.
01:12:26A son of Not This Time, Up to the Mark has now won back-to-back Grade 1s and heads to the Breeders' Cup Mile.
01:12:33Last week, Lane's End announced that Up to the Mark would enter stud at the farm on the conclusion of his career.
01:12:41Owner Mike Rapoli was back in the news and he's always got some interesting things to say about the state of our game.
01:12:47And for a guy who's been so successful in his business career, somebody that you have to listen to.
01:12:52He came out actually on the NBC show this weekend and talked to Nick Luck and said the time is now that owners take back the game.
01:13:01And what he's proposing is to create a National Owners Association.
01:13:06And he mentions that in other sports, owners in the four major sports, the owners have control of the game.
01:13:14They're the ones with the major power.
01:13:16And they would say what's different is that the other major sports have a commissioner and then the commissioner works for the owners.
01:13:22And that's where their power comes from.
01:13:24Racing does not have a commissioner.
01:13:26And without one, it's not going to make this that easy.
01:13:29Having said that, he made some really good points.
01:13:31And I do believe that owners should have more power in this sport.
01:13:36And then I'll let you guys talk a little bit about that.
01:13:38But I want to get into some of the points he made.
01:13:41But, you know, Mike Rapoli's had a lot to say about this.
01:13:44And I do agree that, you know, owners need to step up a little bit here, flex their muscles.
01:13:50Maybe there will be, you know, we hate another alphabet organization.
01:13:53We don't want the Horse Racing Owners Association of America to compete with this 382 other alphabet organizations.
01:14:01But I do agree with basically what he said.
01:14:04And look, this is a guy that knows how to get things done.
01:14:07You know, he sold vitamin water to Coke for thirty six trillion dollars and then Under Armour back to Coke for forty seven trillion dollars.
01:14:14So this is a guy that when he speaks, I would listen to.
01:14:18But an interesting concept.
01:14:20And we'll see where this all goes.
01:14:23Well, there's no question this guy knows how to make money.
01:14:26There is no question whatsoever.
01:14:27Let's let's come with a plan and get it going.
01:14:31He's very good in front of the camera and he likes the camera a lot.
01:14:35And he came up with some good points that owners need to take control of the game.
01:14:39I thought it was rather apropos that Nick turned around and said, well, you know, you're saying all this, but you just spent 14 million dollars down the hill at Keeneland buying yearlings.
01:14:48And he simply said, well, I guess I'm not the smartest guy in the room.
01:14:52So he's looking to to take back the game.
01:14:54So I like the fact we're talking about it, but I want to see some action, like talk less.
01:15:02Let's just put pen to paper and let's get something going.
01:15:06And hopefully there's something going on with Rapoli behind the scenes, getting calling, having a call to action with the rest of these billionaire owners and trying to get something going, because he's on the right track.
01:15:19But let's have less talking, more doing.
01:15:21But that will be my opinion on this.
01:15:23It's a question we've all asked ourselves when you have guys like Mike Rapoli and Vinny Viola and all these, you know, business powerhouses in the sport.
01:15:31Why don't they sponsor more?
01:15:34Why don't they get involved a little bit more and help Thoroughbred Racing other than buying horses and racing horses?
01:15:40And maybe, you know, maybe this will be one of those things.
01:15:43Look, Mike, even off camera, I mean, he is so passionate about Thoroughbred Racing and about what he perceives to be the problems in Thoroughbred Racing.
01:15:53I think I mentioned this on air last fall at Keeneland at the Breeders' Cup, ran into him a few days before the race in the barn area.
01:16:02It was Jerry Bailey and I on reconnaissance, and he got our ear for literally 30 or 45 minutes.
01:16:09And what you heard on NBC, I promise you, was greatly sanitized.
01:16:15It was much more politically correct than the opinions that Mike Rapoli was sharing with Jerry and I, his opinions about the way Thoroughbred Racing has been operated from a business perspective, all these various racetracks and people involved in running Thoroughbred Racing.
01:16:34He did not pull any punches talking to us.
01:16:38He named names.
01:16:40He is not happy whatsoever with the way the sport of Thoroughbred Racing is being operated.
01:16:47And I mean, we've talked about many times about the weaknesses in that regard.
01:16:54If a new owners organization can figure out a way to have enough power, to have enough teeth to actually make something like that happen and make beneficial progress to the game, then more power to him.
01:17:11But it's going to be a huge challenge.
01:17:13I mean, you mentioned the NFL, the owners own the teams, they own the stadiums.
01:17:20When you're talking about horse racing, you know, Churchill Downs is owned by Churchill Downs Incorporated, Santa Anita Gulfstream owned by First Racing.
01:17:27You know, they're the ones that control the purse strings, they and Naira and others in this country.
01:17:33And he's talked about maybe being in a position where owners can boycott the entry box and if they band together and maybe, you know, force some of their desires on the sport.
01:17:48But it's going to be a gigantic challenge if he chooses to tackle it.
01:17:53More power to him, but it's going to be tough.
01:17:56Well, let's see what kind of cooperation he gets from other owners.
01:17:59I mean, one of the issues that we brought up last week and Rapoli talked about this is the idea that the Kentucky Derby is worth three million dollars when that's just it should be worth ten million.
01:18:09I mean, that's that's not just my opinion.
01:18:11Most people think that if Rapoli could get together with, you know, people like Saul Koomen and Seth Klarman and Peter Brandt and West Point Thoroughbreds and say, you know what, we're not going to run in the Kentucky Derby unless you raise the purse to ten million dollars.
01:18:25You know, that sort of it almost would be like a strike or something like that.
01:18:29That's possible.
01:18:30A couple other points.
01:18:32I wish he had more to say about horse players.
01:18:35He really didn't get into that aspect much at all.
01:18:38I don't know if Mike's a gambler or not, but, you know, to improve this game, you have to improve the lot of horse players where the takeouts are much too high and they're going up against all these other forms of gambling, particularly sports betting.
01:18:53He had some other points that I thought were pretty spot on.
01:18:56He said you ought to increase purses for older horses to increase, you know, not not make the allowance rates go from one hundred thousand to one hundred twenty five, but big money races for older horses to give them some incentive to come back.
01:19:10He said fix two year old sales.
01:19:12No more of this one furlong and nine and three fifths business.
01:19:15You should they should go either three furlongs or they should just gallop.
01:19:19Then he says he wants people to stand up.
01:19:21He says, if you get fired, I will hire you.
01:19:24This is and this is on Twitter.
01:19:26Remember, your name is Joe Drape.
01:19:28So, Joe, if you're looking for a job with Mike, don't bother.
01:19:33But, you know, stay tuned.
01:19:35We'll see what happens. I agree with Zoe.
01:19:36I mean, you know, we're so much talk, so little action.
01:19:42I agree with Randy. This is a monumental task that he's going to tackle.
01:19:48But I would say if it can be done, who is a better candidate to get it done than Mike Poli?
01:19:56So for that reason, I'm encouraged by what he had to say.
01:20:02Hey, before we wrap up some goings on at Keeneland this week, on Sunday, Caravelle, the trying to become the first horse since the Georgia bred to win the Franklin States, two straight years as going in there.
01:20:17Coming off, she won this race last year and then came back and won the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint off a little bit of a clunker last time out in the Troy Stakes to catch soft turf that day at Saratoga that finished fourth.
01:20:28The Saturday feature at Keeneland is the Queen Elizabeth the second challenge.
01:20:32You have a Lucis Princess who's making her second start in the US for Arnold Delacour after a real nice win in Saratoga's Invitational.
01:20:41And how about this?
01:20:42The Maui, Mawj, M-A-W-J, not quite sure how to pronounce that.
01:20:47The two to one morning line favorite coming in for Godolpha, not Charlie Appleby, but Godolphin Saeed Ben-Sur is the winner of the 1000 Guineas.
01:20:55So you've got a group one winner coming in from Europe to contest race 11 horse field, excuse me, 13 horse field, which includes and also eligible.
01:21:04That will certainly be the highlight of racing this weekend as most, if not all of the Breeders' Cup prep races have come and gone.
01:21:14Yeah, it's Mawj.
01:21:15Mawj took down the 1000 Guineas, she's very, very good.
01:21:21But the other filly is very good as well, Elusive Princess for Arnold Delacour.
01:21:26Now she's only ever run on good ground and good to soft ground.
01:21:30She's a soft ground specialist, so I'm not sure how she's going to handle the firmer going over here in North America.
01:21:38It was boggy as anything when she took down the Saratoga Oaks, but she's a good filly indeed.
01:21:43It's definitely going to be between those two ones.
01:21:47So we'll have to see.
01:21:48But Bill, will you be on the Godolphin bandwagon if it's not Charlie Appleby?
01:21:54Good question.
01:21:55Yeah, I mean, Saeed Ben-Sur is, you know, has a great record of success himself.
01:22:00You just see most of these horses now with Appleby.
01:22:02Yeah, Godolphin could have a guy named Earl be their trainer and I would be on their horses.
01:22:09I wish I was going to be in Keeneland just to say hi to Saeed.
01:22:12I like Saeed Ben-Sur, I've always liked him.
01:22:14He's a very personable guy.
01:22:15And it's, you know, on a personal note, I'm glad to see that he's back in the States with a high profile Godolphin horse.
01:22:23I know he is in Dubai.
01:22:25He still has a lot of other good horses in Dubai, some of them, but good for Saeed.
01:22:30The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:22:33This week's XBTV Work of the Week is Arc Angelo, one of the leading Breeders' Cup classic contenders.
01:22:40Having taken down the Belmont and the Traverse, he had his first workout here on Thursday, breezing five furlongs in 1.02.1.
01:22:48And Randy, I believe you might have been talking about his work with Jerry Bailey and what you thought of it.
01:22:54What did you think?
01:22:55Because he looks the same as I've ever seen him.
01:22:58Jerry didn't like the fact that the horse's ears were pinned as he was coming down the stretch and they weren't pricked as he was going nice and easy.
01:23:07He thought that was kind of a bad sign.
01:23:08But look, you know, you guys pay way more attention to workouts than I do.
01:23:12A lot of it's because sometimes I don't know what I'm looking at.
01:23:15I mean, unless you just pointed it out and what you said right there, Zoe, is a very good reason why normal handicappers need to take workouts with a grain of salt.
01:23:26Because unless you have seen a horse train on a regular basis and you have a point of comparison, then it becomes very difficult to look at one workout in isolation like Arcangelo and say, I don't like that workout.
01:23:42You know, it may be better than he typically works.
01:23:45You really just don't know.
01:23:47So you've seen Arcangelo and you say that's kind of Arcangelo.
01:23:51That's atypical of him.
01:23:52He just gallops around there.
01:23:54And I was quite happy with the work.
01:23:56I thought he looked the same as he looked in Saratoga and watching him train every morning.
01:24:00He is a carbon copy, exactly the same.
01:24:03So it was a good work by Arcangelo and we'll see some more on XBTV.
01:24:07We'll bring you all of them.
01:24:24All the thrills.
01:24:44Fraction of the bills.
01:24:49Experience the power of the partnership.
01:24:55Change your life, make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:25:02West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:25:06Visit West Point TV dot com.
01:25:09The TD and Riders are brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:25:12We're joining one of their partnerships, as we've said, can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:25:16Last week, we told you it was told you we told you it was going to be a big weekend of runners for West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:25:22And it was also a big weekend of winners.
01:25:25Friday, Northern Invader won the Gio Ponte at Aqueduct.
01:25:28Also Friday, Lady Mia won a starter allowance.
01:25:31The next day, Slider won the speakeasy stakes at Santa Anita, also West Point.
01:25:35Sunday, Maiden Specialweight Laurel Vince broke his maiden.
01:25:39You want to get in on some of that action?
01:25:41There are still percentages left in the yearlings that West Point Thoroughbreds bought in Keeneland, September
01:25:47that are going to trainers like Christophe Clement, Shook McGahee and Dale Romans.
01:25:51To get in on that, to learn more, visit westpointtb.com.
01:26:03Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:26:05I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss, Zoe Cadman, our Green Group guest of the week, Aaron Wellman from Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners,
01:26:12our co-producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca, our editors, Aliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:26:18Thanks for tuning us in.
01:26:19We'll catch up with you next week.

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