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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning, it's 910 Wednesday, March 9th.
00:00:27This is the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
00:00:30My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:31I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News, and New York continues to throw
00:00:35out these temperatures like Powerball numbers.
00:00:3768 Monday, 31 today, 52 tomorrow.
00:00:42Let's get it.
00:00:44Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it, Joe?
00:00:45I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:48That's all I really have today.
00:00:49Oh, Bill.
00:00:50Yeah, you're saving all your energy and all your good material for the show, obviously.
00:00:54You're a smart man.
00:00:55I'm Jonathan Green, General Manager of DJ Stable.
00:00:58This week, we start the two-year-old season, two-year-old sales season, I should say, with
00:01:03OBS opening up with their under-tax shows starting tomorrow.
00:01:07One of the things I love about under-tax shows, you hear these great analysis and explanations.
00:01:15You always focus on horses galloping out, or a horse was under wraps, or a horse bounced
00:01:20off the rail.
00:01:21My all-time favorite was I was sitting at OBS years ago, and an old-time trainer watched
00:01:26a horse go down the lane and said, son, you can't look at the time on that horse.
00:01:31I said, why is that?
00:01:32He said, because the rider was like a dog humping a football.
00:01:38The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:01:41Mark your calendars for the April Horses of Racing Age sale after the races on closing
00:01:45day of the spring meet, which is Friday, April 29th.
00:01:48Entry deadline for print catalogs is April 1st.
00:01:52Approved supplements will be accepted until the sale date.
00:01:54We had a terrific weekend of racing all across the country with Aqueduct down in Florida,
00:02:00Gulf Stream, California, Santa Anita.
00:02:02There was a lot of action including three-year-old races that were, I think, across the board
00:02:08pretty impressive.
00:02:09You had three very convincing wins by Morello in the Gotham simplification in the Fountain
00:02:17of Youth.
00:02:18Not this time, running one-two in the Fountain of Youth, and then, of course, Forbidden Kingdom
00:02:22in the race in Santa Anita, the San Felipe.
00:02:25Crazy, crazy impressive.
00:02:26Just blazed out there and was never, ever going to get caught.
00:02:30Really galloped in with the ears pricked.
00:02:31We talked to Richard Mandela yesterday about him.
00:02:34Obviously, a very exciting horse.
00:02:35But let's hear what stood out to John and Bill the most.
00:02:38Well, Joe, I thought, just like you said, I thought all three of those horses were impressive.
00:02:43But I think if you have to pick the best of the best, to me, it would be Forbidden Kingdom.
00:02:47I love horses that kind of running style.
00:02:49I mean, they just run the competition off their feet.
00:02:52They're out there going fast.
00:02:53They open up five, six lengths, just dare anybody to catch them.
00:02:56Now, a cheaper or lesser horse, you know, might fold up after that.
00:03:00This is a horse that has that, he can go to another gear, he can keep going.
00:03:04I guess there's some question if he could do that at a mile and a quarter.
00:03:08But there was also questions coming into the San Felipe because he had never been more
00:03:11than seven furlongs.
00:03:13But yeah, I thought he was, I mean, he almost took your breath away.
00:03:17And I'm not saying he is as good as life is good.
00:03:19I wouldn't go nearly that far.
00:03:21But he reminds me of how he wins races, how he has this just potent weapon, and he goes
00:03:27out and use it, comparisons to a three year old of recent times, kind of like Spendebuck,
00:03:32how he used to go out and win his races.
00:03:35Morello and the Gotham also very impressive.
00:03:38My one knock on that is that the Gotham has just been the world's worst race so far as
00:03:44something signaling future Derby winners.
00:03:46We have to go back to Secretariat in 1973, since a Gotham winner came in first place
00:03:52and wins the Kentucky Derby.
00:03:53Even Easy Goer was one of the most recent examples of it when he won the Gotham, easily
00:03:58won the Wood Memorial, then was second in the Derby.
00:04:01And then Simplification, I mean, he's, you know, he's more blue collar perhaps than some
00:04:07of the other horses we see out there.
00:04:08And part of that is his trainer, Antonio Sano runs a ton of horses, runs a lot of claimers.
00:04:13But what's interesting about him is that he's now, they've totally reversed his style.
00:04:17After going to the front on all these races, then he got left in the Holy Bull and ran
00:04:22a good race coming from off the pace.
00:04:24I thought he would go back to the front in the Fountain of Youth.
00:04:26It didn't happen.
00:04:27They've obviously decided they're better off rating him.
00:04:30And it worked out really well.
00:04:31Yeah, I think all three horses are legitimate horses that if they stay healthy, any one
00:04:36of the three could be a major factor in the Derby.
00:04:39The other important things that I took away from this weekend, aside from the impressive
00:04:45victories by all three horses that you guys already had mentioned in detail, is can we
00:04:50start talking about American Pharoah as a legitimate stallion now, a legitimate dirt
00:04:55stallion?
00:04:56I mean, I know he's had very good turf horses.
00:04:58You know, we had one in his very first crop, but now he's had, you know, Forbidden Kingdom
00:05:03who is the favorite for the Derby right now.
00:05:06And also had, as time goes by, who won the Beholder Grade One, the Beholder Mile, also
00:05:11out in California.
00:05:14So now he's got two legitimate, very, very good horses that are running on the dirt.
00:05:20And I think that that should be mentioned because, again, we've kind of plugged him
00:05:24in in a very early way of saying that he was just a turf horse, a turf stallion.
00:05:29But now it looks like he's, you know, expanding his resume to the dirt as well.
00:05:34A couple of things I know, because Keeneland is a sponsor, I want to mention that Morello
00:05:38was a Keeneland November weanling, sold for $140,000 as a weanling, then sold, you know,
00:05:45as a yearling for $200,000, and then sold as a two-year-old for $250,000.
00:05:48So everyone who's touched Morello has made money on him, which doesn't happen that often
00:05:52in the industry.
00:05:53So that's an interesting kind of horse.
00:05:55He continues to develop and get better as he's getting older.
00:05:58And with regard to the Founder of Youth, Simplication was also a $50,000 Keeneland
00:06:03November weanling.
00:06:05But let's talk about two things in that race.
00:06:07Number one is that, Bill, you mentioned exactly what I was going to say about how impressive
00:06:11he has been with a couple different racing styles.
00:06:12And when you have a horse that's versatile, especially in these larger fields, it really
00:06:16gives you a competitive advantage.
00:06:18So that's been really nice to see.
00:06:21But also let's talk a little bit about Emmanuel, who got in all kinds of trouble, went wide
00:06:26the entire race, and actually ran, according to Gulfstream, ran 230 feet longer, 230 feet
00:06:34further than the winner.
00:06:37That's what it said, 230 feet, because he was five wide on both turns, and was wide
00:06:42the whole way.
00:06:43What's that?
00:06:44That's like 20 lengths.
00:06:45I don't know.
00:06:46It's exactly right, Joe.
00:06:47It's 29 lengths.
00:06:48Now, is that to say that Emmanuel would have lost by five lengths?
00:06:51Is it to say he would have won by 18 lengths?
00:06:53No, that's not what I'm saying.
00:06:54But I think that that's a horse that, again, you put an asterisk next to that race when
00:07:00he's going to run the next time out, maybe probably in the Florida Derby, because I think
00:07:05that he just, unfortunately, just got the worst of that entire race.
00:07:11Other than the two horses that clipped heels, and I know we're going to talk about that
00:07:14a little bit later also, about Paco Lopez and how, once again, he's front and center
00:07:18in the middle of an important race with horses going down.
00:07:23I think that we can take away all the things that you guys said already about these three
00:07:28quality winners, and there's some other horses that ran sneaky good races also in a couple
00:07:35of these races.
00:07:36I'm looking at the trackist charts right now, John.
00:07:37It says 38 feet.
00:07:38You're in 30.
00:07:39I thought it said 230 feet when I looked at it at Gulfstream as soon as the race was over.
00:07:44Yeah, I think that was a misprint.
00:07:45It was a misprint?
00:07:46Okay.
00:07:47Well, let's assume that it was 30.
00:07:48What did you say?
00:07:4930 what?
00:07:5038 feet.
00:07:5138 feet.
00:07:5238 feet.
00:07:5338 feet.
00:07:54Okay.
00:07:55So, it's 7 feet is a horse length.
00:07:56So, that's roughly five and a half length.
00:07:58So, then is it safe to say that he would have hit the wire at the same time as Simplification?
00:08:03I don't know.
00:08:04But he certainly would have been a lot closer for sure.
00:08:06Yeah.
00:08:07And he ran a good race for a horse who was making his stakes debut.
00:08:10I thought he was a bad bet in that race at five inches through the water or whatever
00:08:15he went off at.
00:08:16But obviously, he's a nice horse who's still developing.
00:08:20I agree with Bill that Forbidden Kingdom, I thought, was the most visually impressive
00:08:24horse because he just took it to him.
00:08:28I love seeing rides like that, honestly, where Jackie just has so much confidence in his
00:08:33horse.
00:08:34He says, screw it.
00:08:35I'm going to go out there and I'm going to wing it.
00:08:36I'm going to go as fast as I can, as far as I can.
00:08:41The final 5.16 fraction was pretty slow.
00:08:44But if you watch him visually, the way he came in, just galloping past the wire with
00:08:49the ears pricked, I don't know that he couldn't have gone a little bit faster down the stretch
00:08:53in that race if he had needed to.
00:08:55Again, it goes to the point that I was making a week or two ago about how many of these
00:09:00preps have been one wire to wire and just how much speed there appears to be on the
00:09:05derby trail, which is why, like you guys alluded to, it might behoove a horse like Simplification
00:09:11who was able to show that other dimension, who was able to lay off the pace and make
00:09:14that one run.
00:09:15I think that that could be a big benefit for him as we go a little bit further along down
00:09:20the derby trail.
00:09:21I thought Morello looked really good, too.
00:09:23I thought he won really easy.
00:09:25Classic Empire, another cool Morris stallion really starting to come on.
00:09:28That race is only a mile.
00:09:30It's never going to make any sense to me whether Withers is a mile and an eighth and then the
00:09:33Gotham is a mile.
00:09:34I'm going to go back to a mile and an eighth for the Wooden Memorial.
00:09:36I feel like those distances should be reversed.
00:09:40Couple other nice performances over the weekend.
00:09:42I thought the star of the weekend, honestly, was Speaker's Corner in the Gulfstream Mile.
00:09:47I thought he was incredibly impressive.
00:09:50We ran hard every step of the way.
00:09:52He got pushed through like 22, 45 fractions and just blew him away in the stretch.
00:09:56Ran off, got a 106 buyer.
00:09:59I'm interested to see if he's able to stretch out because he wasn't able to do it as a three-year-old.
00:10:04I think he might be better at seven furlongs to a mile, but man, did he look good in that
00:10:08race.
00:10:10I'm looking forward to seeing what he does next.
00:10:12Kathleen Oh won again, upstart Philly.
00:10:16She looked really good for Shug McKay.
00:10:17He didn't get a huge figure, but I thought it ran really well.
00:10:21Express Train, shout out to Express Train for getting the grade one win in the Santa
00:10:25Anita handicap.
00:10:26Obviously, the big cap isn't what it used to be.
00:10:28The position on the calendar that it's in between the Dubai World Cup and the Saudi
00:10:32Cup now is just never going to get that great, real quality grade one field that it used
00:10:38to get over the years.
00:10:39Express Train is a really likable horse, hard knocking, always shows up and gets the grade
00:10:43one win in the big cap, 104 buyer, sort of union rags.
00:10:48Also, shout out to John and DJ Staples for coinage winning.
00:10:53Was it the Palm Beach on Saturday, John?
00:10:56It was the Palm Beach.
00:10:57Yeah, thanks, Jeff.
00:10:58It was the Palm Beach.
00:10:59I didn't think we were going to get up there because we got in so much traffic problems,
00:11:02but yeah.
00:11:03He was tossing his head around early in the race, so I thought that was a bad sign, but
00:11:07he was able to overcome that.
00:11:08Yeah.
00:11:09Now, thank you.
00:11:10And thank you for both of you guys for reaching out to me after the horse won.
00:11:14That was exciting.
00:11:15He's going to run in the Transylvania, Keeneland, actually, next time out, so that'll be fun
00:11:20to see.
00:11:21And Joe, just to piggyback on what you were saying, I thought Kathleen O was really, really
00:11:24impressive.
00:11:25Not only did she win and come off the pace to win, but you're talking about a seven horse
00:11:30field in the Devona Dale, I'm talking about seven horse field, and five of the horses
00:11:33were four to one or lower.
00:11:35So it was anybody's game.
00:11:37I mean, it really, from the betting standpoint, nobody had an idea of who the favorite should
00:11:41be.
00:11:42And she basically sat off the pace and made a huge run.
00:11:46And I believe that when she sold for $275,000, I believe that was Upstart's most expensive
00:11:52two-year-old.
00:11:53So obviously, she's got the looks on top of the fact that she can run a little bit.
00:11:57Yep.
00:11:58And she's, again, it's a three-year-old affiliate division that's really, I think, kind of crying
00:12:02out for a leader.
00:12:03Yeah.
00:12:05I think, you know, Secret Oath is that leader right now, but I don't think it's a huge margin
00:12:09back to the other horses.
00:12:10When you say Ness also, when you say Ness would also be a half, yeah.
00:12:15Yeah.
00:12:16So I think that that's kind of the second tier right now behind Secret Oath.
00:12:19But I think there's still also time between now and the Kentucky Oaks to get like that
00:12:23real breakout performer beyond just Secret Oath.
00:12:27Well, Joe, let me interject one thing here.
00:12:29And I agree with what you said.
00:12:30I love Kathleen O's race.
00:12:32But, you know, again, this is a thing we deal with almost every week.
00:12:36But I think the best three-year-old filly in the country is Adair Manor, but she's trained
00:12:40by Bob Baffert.
00:12:41And, you know, we didn't talk about it earlier in earlier shows, but when the Kentucky Oaks
00:12:46nominations came out, no Baffert horses nominated for the Kentucky Oaks.
00:12:50I don't know what to read into that.
00:12:52But, you know, again, just like the three-year-old male division with Messier and a couple others
00:12:59is convoluted because the Baffert situation is the same with the Phillies.
00:13:02Yeah, I didn't I honestly I didn't even think of her because of that.
00:13:06But she's she's obviously a very nice filly, too.
00:13:08Just before we wrap up the weekend, I wanted to run down the contest because we had a lot
00:13:12of a lot of action in the three-year-old fantasy derby contest.
00:13:16Bill charging to the front.
00:13:19I mean, so far so good for the guy who tells me every year that my statement is a great
00:13:26start.
00:13:27We can throw it up here.
00:13:28So he's got 100 points.
00:13:29We got 50 from Epicenter winning the Risen Star and 50 for Forbidden Kingdom.
00:13:35Al got 50 from Simplification winning the Fountain of Youth.
00:13:38So Al sits in second at 60 points.
00:13:40I'm third.
00:13:41A little bit of second itis so far with in due time and smile happy.
00:13:45And then Sue and John each on the board with five points with Pioneer Medina and Emmanuel
00:13:51respectively.
00:13:52I also just one other thing I wanted to mention, how about not this time Epicenter in the Risen
00:13:58Star and then 1-2 with Simplification and in due time in the Fountain of Youth.
00:14:05Chris McGrath wrote this story a couple of weeks ago about how he looks to be the prevailing
00:14:12heir to Giants Causeway's legend here in America.
00:14:15I already disagree with him based on what he's done the first couple of craps.
00:14:19I remember talking to Duncan Taylor of TaylorMade when they were getting the horse over not this
00:14:25time over.
00:14:26And he said to me, you know, what do you really think?
00:14:29I mean, Giants Causeway hasn't been a great sire of sires here in the States.
00:14:33He said, it's all about the Philly.
00:14:34It's all about the female side.
00:14:36And Miss Macy Sue, I saw her win, you know, win the winning colors on the Tapeda.
00:14:41I saw her break the track record.
00:14:42I saw her win on the dirt.
00:14:44You know, she's that kind of blue hand mare that we haven't seen in a long time.
00:14:48And all she did, oh, by the way, was not only produce not this time, but two other, three
00:14:52of the greatest state winners, including Liam's map, who also is arguably one of the top up
00:14:57and coming stallions, you know, of his crop as well.
00:15:00So kudos to the Taylor brothers and TaylorMade as well for for identifying this horse and
00:15:06going against the grain and picking this horse out.
00:15:09You know, it looks like that he's got a promising future.
00:15:11Yep. Got a lot of runners.
00:15:13The TDN Writer's Room was brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:15Last week, Keeneland announced the addition of lifelong horseman and former trainer Buff
00:15:19Bradley. Everybody loves Buff Bradley added to the Keeneland team.
00:15:23He fills the new position of Associate of Sales Development, where he's going to concentrate
00:15:27on sales of breeding stock and horses of racing age.
00:15:30And it was a big weekend for Keeneland sales graduates, obviously, with over 70 sales grads
00:15:35highlighted in the big stakes races across the country.
00:15:38Several major scores, including Express Train, who I mentioned in the Big Cap, Simplification
00:15:42in the Fountain of Youth, Kathleen Owen in the Devonadale, and Temple in the Grade 2
00:15:47McDermott Estates. We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:15:56Keeneland Racecourse is the most beautiful racetrack in America, hands down.
00:16:01Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
00:16:02I welcome you to the breeding stock sale.
00:16:04Book one. Good to have you back with us.
00:16:16Good to have you back with us.
00:16:18Good to have you back with us.
00:16:20Good to have you back with us.
00:16:22Good to have you back with us.
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00:16:40Good to have you back with us.
00:16:42Good to have you back with us.
00:16:44They're off in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:16:50Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate-to-wire win in the Florida Derby.
00:16:56Champion 3-year-old.
00:16:58Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
00:17:0311 triple-digit bias.
00:17:05Maximum Security, he smoked them in the cigar mile.
00:17:09Grade 1 winning 4-year-old.
00:17:11Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:17:16Secure your mare's future.
00:17:18Maximum Security.
00:17:20The TDN Writing Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:17:23Huge, huge weekend for Coolmore Stallions as we noted in the first segment on the Derby and Oaks Trail.
00:17:29Morello from the first crop of Classic Empire remained undefeated in his third start in the Grade 3 Gotham Stakes.
00:17:35The Forbidden Kingdom by American Pharoah took the Grade 2 San Felipe.
00:17:39Like I said, we talked to Richard Mandela yesterday.
00:17:41We'll have that interview later on the show.
00:17:43Fourth Grade 1 winner for American Pharoah later on Saturday with As Time Goes By who won the Beholder Mile.
00:17:49And Ida, a daughter of Munnings, got her fourth straight win in the Grade 2 Santa Isabel Stakes on Sunday.
00:17:56So definitely a lot of American Pharoah horses on those Derby and Oaks Trails.
00:18:00Definitely a very exciting sire.
00:18:02And Classic Empire, I wouldn't sleep on him too.
00:18:05I think he's going to have a lot more runners this year beyond just Morello.
00:18:09There'll be a lot of jockey news on this show, both positive and negative.
00:18:13It was a big week for the riders.
00:18:15You know, Paco Lopez is a guy who I think endangers a lot of people.
00:18:21I don't think I'm saying anything controversial there.
00:18:23You know, it's been a complaint about him for a long time in this industry.
00:18:27And, you know, I think it's part of the reason he doesn't have that many friends.
00:18:29It doesn't make that great.
00:18:31He doesn't have those top-level connections, and he has to ride at these lower-level tracks.
00:18:35Saturday, that was laid bare in the Fountain of Youth Stakes.
00:18:39I'm not sure if we can show the replay, but he was riding in due time.
00:18:43He went it up second, and he tried to get out on the far turn.
00:18:47And it was just one of those things where Paco was playing bumper cars
00:18:50and didn't seem to care who was outside or inside of him.
00:18:53Came out pretty sharply on the far turn.
00:18:56Two horses got clipped and steadied and lost their riders, Galt and High Oak,
00:19:01who was making his three-year-old debut last year's Saratoga Special winner.
00:19:04Thank God, thankfully, everybody was okay.
00:19:06Both of the horses were okay.
00:19:08Junior Alvarado and Joel Rosario had some, like, minor injuries,
00:19:12but I think they're both going to be okay.
00:19:14It really shows you how, honestly, how athletic horses are.
00:19:18You know, obviously, I don't like to see horses go down ever,
00:19:21but when they do and they pop back up like that,
00:19:23it's absolutely mind-blowing that they're able to do that
00:19:26because that was a real hold-your-breath moment in that race.
00:19:30And just thankfully, everybody was okay.
00:19:33But, yeah, I was shocked that they didn't take the horse down, honestly.
00:19:36Like, what more do you have to do to be placed last by the Gulfstream stewards?
00:19:42You know, it was good for me for the contest that he stayed up,
00:19:45but I think the greater justice would have been served
00:19:50if the horse, if in due time, had come down.
00:19:52What did you guys think?
00:19:54Yeah, Joe, that was, to me, the main takeaway.
00:19:57How do you not disqualify him in there?
00:20:00And, you know, what kind of message does that send
00:20:02if, you know, you can drop two other riders?
00:20:06Not only should he have been taken down,
00:20:08he should have been given a lengthy suspension in addition to that.
00:20:11So that, to me, was the real head-scratcher part of all this.
00:20:15You know, there was a definite—I mean, not even any shade of doubt.
00:20:21No gray area here. You've got to take the horse down.
00:20:23So I think the Gulfstream stewards really messed up on that.
00:20:27I know John, who just loves Paco Lopez,
00:20:29I'm going to throw it over to him because I know he's got a lot to say.
00:20:32No, listen, we've ridden Paco, so it's not a matter of, you know,
00:20:37I have a vendetta or an ax to grind with him.
00:20:39I just think he's reckless. I think that he's dangerous out there.
00:20:43And I always, you know, whenever I'm watching one of my races,
00:20:47if Paco's not on our horse, I watch two things,
00:20:50our horse and who Paco's riding,
00:20:52because invariably Paco's going to ride more than one horse in the race.
00:20:56And you say, how can that be physically?
00:20:57Well, because basically he's on his horse and he's jamming other horses,
00:21:00pinning them to the rail. He's, you know, breaking out on top
00:21:03and then slowing the pace down and making horses behind him clip heels.
00:21:06And this isn't the first time in a big race that this has happened.
00:21:09I mean, we talked about the Haskell at Monmouth Park this summer,
00:21:12and that's their biggest race. That's their premier race of the year.
00:21:15And it was all because of Paco that the horse went down.
00:21:19A horse that he wasn't riding went down.
00:21:21And it's just, it's scary and it's dangerous.
00:21:24And you're talking about very fragile athletes as it is.
00:21:27I'm talking about the horses and then jockeys on top of that.
00:21:30They take their lives into their hands every time they get on a horseback.
00:21:33So it's just dangerous and reckless.
00:21:36And I wish that, you know, that Gulfstream, you know, stewards,
00:21:41even if they weren't confident enough to take, you know,
00:21:44take him down and disqualify him, put him last in that race,
00:21:48they should at least have a film session or at least, you know,
00:21:50give somebody some lip service of saying like, hey, you know,
00:21:53we're going to sit down with them and talk to them about this because this
00:21:56has happened way too often.
00:21:58And it would not surprise me if the next time a horse goes down and the next
00:22:01time there's a pile up in a race that Paco's involved in it.
00:22:05And if that, and if I can see that, and I'm not watching Gulfstream every day,
00:22:09but if I can see it,
00:22:10then what are the people who get paid to watch these races thinking every
00:22:14day? And, and look at Monmouth Park where Paco is king,
00:22:18I understand there, you know,
00:22:20that management there is going to be concerned about reprimanding their top
00:22:25jockey, just like they didn't reprimand the top trainers for years. Okay.
00:22:28It's just, that's not their style. But Paco is like the second, you know,
00:22:33the second group of jockeys at Gulfstream.
00:22:36So what would it really affect them to,
00:22:39to make him have a film study session and talk to them about his, you know,
00:22:44Joe, you, you nailed it. His bumper car, you know,
00:22:47style of, of, of racing out there, you know,
00:22:50reminds me of days of thunder when they say, you know, rubbing is racing.
00:22:53That's kind of the way that he, that he acts. He, he, he tries to,
00:22:57he tries to cut corners, you know, literally on horses. He tries to,
00:23:00I don't think he tries to clip heels,
00:23:02but he tries to get as close to the horse in front of him or behind him or
00:23:05next to him as he can and influence their stride while, you know,
00:23:10while not sacrificing anything on his horse. And it's just dangerous.
00:23:13Somebody is going to get hurt for worse.
00:23:15Well, I mean, and he's gotten suspended for this kind of stuff before.
00:23:18Like I, you know, go back a couple of years, April, 2019,
00:23:21he got suspended by the Gulfstream stewards for 60 days, quote,
00:23:25based on continuous careless riding after each time he was either called in
00:23:29reprimanded or given a suspension.
00:23:31I don't know what the statute of limitations on that kind of stuff is,
00:23:34but if this is another offense on top of those other suspensions,
00:23:37he should get 90 days, 120 days, a full year.
00:23:41Like it just, it, it's one of those things where if you,
00:23:44you don't have the consistent deterrence,
00:23:47he's going to keep doing the same stuff. And at a certain point, like,
00:23:50you got to rule them off the grounds.
00:23:52I think if this just keeps happening over and over again,
00:23:55and if you do suspend them and it doesn't fix the behavior, you know,
00:23:58I think that he's, he's, he's a danger. He's a danger to people. And I,
00:24:02you know, it's, it's one of those things that's not,
00:24:04I don't feel like this is really debatable. You know,
00:24:07there's so many things in racing where, you know,
00:24:09you go back and forth and you have this opinion and that opinion and
00:24:12everybody on Twitter is yelling at each other.
00:24:14It seems like everyone's in agreement that Paco Lopez is a dangerous rider and
00:24:18is, you know, just shouldn't be on the racetrack,
00:24:21at least for the next 90 days or whatever.
00:24:24The other, the other jockeys behaving badly story of the week that I wanted
00:24:28to mention is on Sunday's first race at Aqueduct.
00:24:33Not sure if we have the replay,
00:24:35but Jose let's kind of got a little bit of hot water with the racing public.
00:24:39If you watch the race, he's,
00:24:41he's on the outside horse and he's kind of sweeping to the lead and he keeps
00:24:46looking inside. He keeps looking to his left.
00:24:48It looked like he was concerned about the three horse to his inside.
00:24:52It was a little bit boxed in. I think, you know,
00:24:55the most charitable reading of it is he wanted to make sure that that horse was
00:24:59stuck. But while he, while that was happening,
00:25:01another horse came up on his outside and took the lead.
00:25:04And then he saw that horse and then started writing and his,
00:25:07his mouth ended up getting beat by like a head on the wire in like a long
00:25:11stretch duel. A lot of people were really outraged about this. I honestly,
00:25:15I, I, I don't see it because you know, I'm a little biased.
00:25:18I like Jose was kind of allowed. He's one of my favorite writers,
00:25:21but like if you're saying he was trying to stiff the horse and was trying to
00:25:25throw the race, why did he then ride hard all the way to the wire?
00:25:28Like this happened in early stretch. It wasn't like it happened, you know,
00:25:32like 50 yards before the wire and he got caught and then like belatedly tried
00:25:36to start writing. It happened in early stretch.
00:25:38And then when he saw the horse,
00:25:39he started pumping and driving and the horse just got beat by a head.
00:25:43And if he was trying not to win the race, he could have gotten DQ.
00:25:45He could have said,
00:25:46I'm going to take this horse to a Paco and bump the hell out of the horse
00:25:50outside of me. And then they're going to take me down. So I won't win.
00:25:53Like there were so many other ways.
00:25:55If you're trying to stiff a horse and not win a race to do it,
00:25:58then what the Jose kind of did, which to me looked like overconfident writing,
00:26:02which I see a lot in New York. But it's open to interpretation. I just,
00:26:06I think too many times in these instances,
00:26:08people they jump to that conspiratorial line of thinking race fixing is going
00:26:13on. I, you know, here's the, here's the video to prove it. In this case,
00:26:17I honestly don't see it, but what do you guys think?
00:26:19Joe, I couldn't agree more. And this is, you know,
00:26:21when Twitter runs a mock three or four people start writing something,
00:26:24then it's linked to and, and messaged and all this.
00:26:27Here's what Jose looks kind of was guilty of giving a bad ride to the horse.
00:26:32That's it. I mean,
00:26:33to suggest that there was something nefarious going on here is ridiculous.
00:26:37And, you know, I haven't talked to him. I can't read his mind, but I,
00:26:40I bet he was trying not to pull a Paco that he was worried about maybe his
00:26:45horse coming over on the horse inside of him or the horse inside of him
00:26:49coming over on him. And he fell asleep.
00:26:53It happens. He's guys going to give a bad ride from time to time. You know,
00:26:56if you bet on some horse and, and you know, Joe Smith,
00:27:00the jockey steadies eight times during the race. Well, it was a bad ride.
00:27:04Things happen. You know,
00:27:07the Naira stewards are going to meet with him on Friday.
00:27:11I don't see any reason whatsoever other than to say, Hey, come on, you know,
00:27:15next time, you know,
00:27:16just be don't fall asleep out there or realize their horses come up on your
00:27:20outside, but you know, to suspend him or to suggest that anything, I mean,
00:27:24I don't even know, maybe you guys,
00:27:25there's something that people have read about, well,
00:27:26this horse was claimed by Linda rice and then out this other guy.
00:27:29The other guy was, it just enough already. I mean, you know, no, it is,
00:27:33you know, here's what happened.
00:27:35Jose Los Cano messed up boneheaded ride. He caught the worst,
00:27:40the race it happens. Let's move on.
00:27:43Yeah. It wasn't great optics. I mean, if, if,
00:27:46if Thurman racing was a different sport and you know,
00:27:49had a centralized voice and,
00:27:51and transparency and all the things that we've been harping on for,
00:27:54for years and years then you wouldn't necessarily even have this kind of a
00:27:58conspiracy theory. But because, you know, there, there's this,
00:28:02there's this immediate assumption that there's, you know,
00:28:05something wrong going on that there,
00:28:07that people are trying to screw the general public or the betters or,
00:28:10or that, that there's, you know, inside racing going. I mean,
00:28:13there's all kinds of conspiracy theories. You know,
00:28:16if we had a centralized voice that would come out and say, we spoke,
00:28:21you know, we're going to speak to, to the rider on Friday.
00:28:24And after the discussion,
00:28:26we're going to have a press conference or we're going to have a release that
00:28:29says, here's what was going through his head. We've reviewed it.
00:28:33We're fine with, you know, with, with the explanation and, you know,
00:28:37and we did this because it's for the best, you know,
00:28:40integrity of the sport and also for the safety of our horses and, and,
00:28:43and our riders which is ironically what we were calling for that happened
00:28:48with Paco, but be that as it may,
00:28:50at least New York is going through the process of having, you know,
00:28:53having him sit down, watch the video and explain what's going on.
00:28:58I don't think he was race fixing, but it's not a good optic.
00:29:01It's not a good look. And I will say this, if that's,
00:29:04if I had watched that same scenario unfold at a secondary racetrack,
00:29:09I would have a question about it,
00:29:11about whether or not it was really his safety or whether or not he was
00:29:15saying to the guy, Hey, this is where you're supposed to pass me.
00:29:17This is what get past me, get past me. I'm giving it, you know,
00:29:20it's just because maybe, maybe, um, um, you know,
00:29:23I'm under the false illusion that New York is above board and that,
00:29:27you know, the riders are all doing the right thing.
00:29:29So much so that like two California riders are coming to New York because,
00:29:32because it is such a, you know, such a great place to, to race. Um,
00:29:36if it was a different racetrack,
00:29:37I would definitely be questioning you guys and saying,
00:29:39I'm not so sure that I'm as confident as you are that this wasn't anything
00:29:43other than just, you know, kind of a bad ride by, by a good rider.
00:29:48And then, you know, I honestly, like,
00:29:49even though I think we're kind of in agreement here that it was just a bad
00:29:52ride and it wasn't anything nefarious and that the, the,
00:29:55the Twitter outrage gets a little out of hand sometimes.
00:29:59I think it does serve a purpose in that I don't necessarily know that they
00:30:03would have brought him in for a sit down if there wasn't such outrage about it
00:30:08on social media. So that's where it does serve a purpose. You know,
00:30:11even if I disagree that in this case,
00:30:13there was anything nefarious going on,
00:30:15there's at least some accountability based on people posting this video and
00:30:20getting mad about it and debating it on Twitter. So, you know,
00:30:23in that way, at least that's kind of the, the, you know, the,
00:30:27the ombudsman or like the public for,
00:30:32for racing where, you know,
00:30:34we just get on Twitter and yell enough we'll, we'll get some accountability.
00:30:37Patty, can we,
00:30:38can we put that vocabulary word and a definition up because I don't think I
00:30:42didn't know what it meant. And I'm sure that 98% of our, of our, you know,
00:30:46listeners are smart. No, no, no.
00:30:48What ombudsman means look at Joe Bianca poem.
00:30:51Was that like in your calendar,
00:30:54your vocab day calendar or your vocab day toilet paper.
00:30:58Well, where'd you get that one from? That was a very impressive word.
00:31:00Mr. Bianca.
00:31:01Hey, I was a journalism major, John. I, you know,
00:31:05had to learn some words along the way somewhere by accident.
00:31:08Ombudsman.
00:31:10O-M-B-U-D-S-M-A-N.
00:31:14Wow. That, that is, I am, I am impressive.
00:31:17The TDN writers room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania horse breeders
00:31:20association. This month,
00:31:21the PHBA announced a $150,000 donation will be made to the equine
00:31:26pharmacology laboratory at the university of Pennsylvania school of veterinary
00:31:30medicine.
00:31:31It's obviously the gold standard in vet schools in this country.
00:31:34This funding will go towards research to produce a test unit that will allow
00:31:38horse to be tested prior to the race to determine if a horse could be in
00:31:42danger of injury or had been doped,
00:31:44allowing time to scratch any horse in question before a race.
00:31:48That's definitely a revolutionary idea in this business.
00:31:51And the PHBA is looking forward to what this research could mean for the
00:31:54future of the industry, fully wholeheartedly support that.
00:31:57Any kind of pre race examination that can stop any of the problems that we,
00:32:01we rail about on this show, I think is great progress.
00:32:05And also we talked to Brian San Fratello a few weeks ago about their new PA
00:32:08sired PA bred two-year-old series.
00:32:10With $600,000 in stakes persons to be offered in 2022.
00:32:13The first race in the series will be run on Pennsylvania day at the races on
00:32:16August 22nd.
00:32:17You can learn more at PA bread.com.
00:32:19And I know John has a little bit of news about a new PA stallion.
00:32:22Yeah, I just, I just saw a press release.
00:32:24I'm very excited for a cop.
00:32:25Okay.
00:32:26And who's the only son of street sense to be standing on the East coast.
00:32:29And, and I'm sure you guys remember his impressive when, you know,
00:32:32it made special weight winner,
00:32:33he was the only son of street sense to be standing on the East coast.
00:32:36And, and I'm sure you guys remember his impressive when, you know,
00:32:39it made special weight win in New York,
00:32:40but also won the Jerome by over six lengths and then placed in the withers.
00:32:44So he was on the Derby campaign for, you know, for his crop early on.
00:32:48And street sense out of a hard spun mare. So just, you know,
00:32:51really well bred and I think is a bargain at $2,500 at Pennsylvania.
00:32:56For sure. Getting into a good family there.
00:32:58We'll be right back after this message from the Pennsylvania horse breeders
00:33:02association.
00:33:03Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program,
00:33:07the best in North America, but we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:33:11The PA horse breeders association is funding cutting edge research at Penn vet
00:33:15into equine health and safety.
00:33:17And we endorse the safe act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:33:22Plus we're pleased to support the aftercare programs set up by our horseman's
00:33:26groups. Just a few of the reasons why you should join us in Pennsylvania,
00:33:30the premier place to breed and race.
00:33:36The TDN writers room is a place where you can learn more about the horse
00:33:39breeders association.
00:33:40You can learn more about the horse breeders association,
00:33:42how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:45how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:47how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:49how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:51how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:53how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:55how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:57how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:33:59how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:34:01how to become a member of the horse breeders association,
00:34:04the TDN writers room is brought to you by Canterbury park.
00:34:07Shout out to Canterbury park for coming along the ride on the TDN writers room
00:34:10and being our latest sponsor. We love Minnesota racing.
00:34:13We've done stuff with the Minnesota thoroughbred association in the past.
00:34:16We love Canterbury park, very horse player, friendly product.
00:34:19As Bill will tell you in a second Canterbury park wants everybody to know
00:34:23that owners sending their horses to Canterbury when their meet begins on
00:34:26May 18th will be rewarded.
00:34:28A thousand dollar bonus will be paid to the owner of any horse that races
00:34:32during the month of May.
00:34:33In addition to a travel loan program offered to assist with the upfront
00:34:37expenses of shipping a stable to Canterbury.
00:34:40Very nice initiative to get people on the grounds to get people stapled there,
00:34:44the forgivable loans, the grants.
00:34:46And we talked to Andrew Offerman of Canterbury in the past about that program.
00:34:50And it's definitely a good job by them to get new owners and trainers over
00:34:54there.
00:34:55All information,
00:34:56full conditions and loan applications specific to these programs can be found
00:35:00at Canterbury park.com slash horsemen.
00:35:03And we're looking forward to Canterbury's race meet,
00:35:05which runs May 18th through September 17th with a Wednesday through Sunday
00:35:09schedule.
00:35:10And like I said,
00:35:11definitely very horse player friendly.
00:35:12I know,
00:35:13I know Bill knows about that.
00:35:14Yeah.
00:35:15Joe,
00:35:16you mentioned how,
00:35:17why Canterbury is a good deal for owners and trainers and horsemen.
00:35:18It's a great deal for the betters.
00:35:20And we all yell all the time about how high the takeouts are.
00:35:24And so if you feel that way,
00:35:26and everybody does support the tracks with good takeout structures,
00:35:29Canterbury on their pick fives and pick six and take out is only 10%.
00:35:33That's the lowest takeout in the industry.
00:35:36Give your attention to Canterbury,
00:35:38particularly for the pick fives and pick six and support the tracks that are
00:35:43trying to do right by the horse player.
00:35:44And Joe,
00:35:46I can tell you,
00:35:47we actually just ran against a Minnesota bread in one of the funniest names I
00:35:50can remember in recent history.
00:35:53They named the horse Harmon killer brew after the famous home run hitter,
00:35:57Minnesota twin slugger.
00:35:58And he was a Minnesota bread.
00:36:00So I was,
00:36:01you know,
00:36:02that definitely caught my eye and I'm sure we'll be seeing him run in
00:36:05Minnesota this summer.
00:36:06For sure.
00:36:07I remember that meet opens May 18th.
00:36:09Looking forward to it.
00:36:10We've been running these cartoons in the TDN recently from Remy Bullock,
00:36:14who's a very talented,
00:36:15very funny horse racing cartoonist and been running one every week in the
00:36:18TDN.
00:36:19We're popping them up here on the writer's room too.
00:36:21Here's this week's cartoon.
00:36:22And you know,
00:36:23there's a lot of people complaining about supply chain issues these days,
00:36:25but what if the solution was just under our noses this whole time in the
00:36:29horse business?
00:36:35And so yesterday we talked to Richard Mandela,
00:36:37who's the trainer of forbidden kingdom,
00:36:39Katie Petruniak,
00:36:40our associate producer jumped on with us to replace Bill and John and
00:36:44appreciate Katie for,
00:36:45for coming on and appreciate the time from Richard Mandela again,
00:36:48forbidden kingdom.
00:36:49Very exciting.
00:36:50He also was the trainer beholder was recently nominated for the hall of
00:36:53fame.
00:36:54So we talked to him about her.
00:36:55We talked to him about flabby and proud,
00:36:56lots of stuff with Richard Mandela.
00:36:58Let's check out our interview.
00:36:59The green group guest of the week is sponsored by the green group and
00:37:02accounting tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
00:37:05industry with over 500 clients on the horse business.
00:37:08They have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:37:10Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:37:14So we are thrilled this week to be joined by hall of fame trainer,
00:37:17Richard Mandela.
00:37:18Thanks so much for coming on.
00:37:19My pleasure.
00:37:20Nice to be here.
00:37:21Yeah.
00:37:22Glad to get you in.
00:37:23So obviously the big horses forbidden kingdom was terrific in the San
00:37:26Felipe.
00:37:27I really ran them off their feet.
00:37:28Went really,
00:37:29really fast early and seemed to be just galloping in with the ears
00:37:33pricked.
00:37:34What was your reaction to that race and how did he come out of it?
00:37:36Truly excited.
00:37:39I was a little concerned when he opened up so fast early,
00:37:43but,
00:37:44but he's just gifted with such natural speed.
00:37:48He enjoys using it.
00:37:50Yeah.
00:37:51And so how did he come back?
00:37:52Cause it seemed like he was coming in real easy.
00:37:54How did he come out of the race?
00:37:56Came back.
00:37:57Great.
00:37:58Yeah.
00:37:59Doing burglar.
00:38:00Yeah.
00:38:01So you full speed ahead to the San Anita Derby.
00:38:02Is that the plan?
00:38:03That's the plan.
00:38:04All right.
00:38:05Richard,
00:38:06thank you so much for joining us.
00:38:07And I wanted to ask you when you first got him in your barn,
00:38:09when did you start thinking that he could be something special?
00:38:13You know,
00:38:14we got him in,
00:38:15he was just galloping and,
00:38:17but the first sight of him is just a gorgeous horse,
00:38:20beautiful horse,
00:38:22a lot of class about him.
00:38:27His looks are classy.
00:38:29It was,
00:38:30you know,
00:38:31we had big expectations and he never let us down.
00:38:34He's obviously got a ton of speed.
00:38:36It's something I noticed about the Derby trail prep so far is a lot of
00:38:39wire to wire winners.
00:38:40Is that something that concerns you at all?
00:38:42Or has he been able to rate?
00:38:43Like how,
00:38:44how does he,
00:38:45how does he train?
00:38:46Can you think he can write off horses?
00:38:47He is a very smart horse,
00:38:49but he likes to,
00:38:51he likes to run and,
00:38:52and show his speed.
00:38:55I can only train my horse and worry about him.
00:38:58So the others just have to do their thing and I'll just keep working at him.
00:39:04So there's no plan.
00:39:05If we can get him in the right place.
00:39:07Right.
00:39:08So there's no,
00:39:09there's no specific plan to try to rate him.
00:39:10Just go let him do his thing.
00:39:13It's just a,
00:39:14it's a work in progress.
00:39:15Gotcha.
00:39:16Okay.
00:39:17And you've had so many superstar race horses over the years,
00:39:20but six horses in the Derby.
00:39:22And obviously you're known for being such an incredibly patient trainer with
00:39:26your horses.
00:39:27So what do you need to see from a horse to put them on the Derby trail and
00:39:30point towards the Kentucky Derby?
00:39:35You know,
00:39:36in all these years,
00:39:37I never figured it out.
00:39:38So I don't know the answer,
00:39:39but forbidden kingdom seems to be taking me.
00:39:41So I'll just let him do it.
00:39:43Gotcha.
00:39:44Well,
00:39:45I wanted to ask him about beholder too.
00:39:46Obviously a very,
00:39:47very special horse.
00:39:48She was a hall.
00:39:49She was named as a hall of fame finalist recently.
00:39:50We assume that she's going to go in there with flying colors.
00:39:53Her great thing to me was,
00:39:55was longevity winning great ones from three to six.
00:39:58What,
00:39:59why do you think that her longevity was so strong?
00:40:01Like,
00:40:02was it something that she did in her training regimen?
00:40:04Was it,
00:40:05she was easy on herself.
00:40:06Why was she able to stay good for so long?
00:40:08Well,
00:40:09I'd like to say it was my training,
00:40:10but I think she was just a superior individual.
00:40:14Yeah.
00:40:15What was like,
00:40:16what,
00:40:17how do you,
00:40:18what separates her from other horses?
00:40:19Do you think like what specifically?
00:40:22Well,
00:40:23mentally,
00:40:24she enjoyed her job.
00:40:26Physically.
00:40:27She took the pressure soundness wise.
00:40:30She stayed sound and she had the ability for the very first thing you have to
00:40:35have.
00:40:36So she had all the ingredients it takes to be a great racehorse.
00:40:40Gotcha.
00:40:42And another question kind of about your training technique.
00:40:45So can you think of a horse and maybe not necessarily like the most accomplished
00:40:48or the most talented,
00:40:49but just one where you feel like your training techniques in particular really
00:40:53helped that horse Excel.
00:40:57I don't remember any of that,
00:40:58but I remember a lot of complaints.
00:41:02Complaints about what?
00:41:04My training.
00:41:06Too long of a list.
00:41:10All right.
00:41:11I want to ask him also about,
00:41:12about Flavia because he's leaving to go to New York.
00:41:15That news broke over the weekend.
00:41:16You guys have obviously had a great relationship from the job.
00:41:20What are your thoughts on that?
00:41:21And him leaving California?
00:41:23Well,
00:41:24selfishly,
00:41:26I just hate to see him go.
00:41:27He's a person I've always,
00:41:29you know,
00:41:30he came to me at 18 years old from California.
00:41:33He came to me at 18 years old from France.
00:41:36And immediately I just saw a star.
00:41:41There was no secret.
00:41:42Anybody would look at him close enough.
00:41:44We've seen it,
00:41:46but just the person he is,
00:41:48the rider he is.
00:41:51It'll be a big loss when he leaves,
00:41:55but on a,
00:41:56on a larger scale,
00:41:57California is going to be hurt by it.
00:41:59I think Flavian's attracted a lot of players and fans that watch him
00:42:05purely because of himself.
00:42:08And I hope that doesn't take too much away from California.
00:42:13What is it about his,
00:42:15his ability as a writer that makes him so special?
00:42:19Well,
00:42:20he's kind of like I said about Beholder,
00:42:21he's got all the ingredients it takes to be a great writer.
00:42:25First,
00:42:26the horsemanship,
00:42:27the athleticism,
00:42:30the mind thing,
00:42:33intelligence,
00:42:35and then the class to go with it.
00:42:37It just has everything.
00:42:39Right.
00:42:40I wanted to ask also about your California guy through and through,
00:42:44you know,
00:42:45California was in a very precarious spot a couple of years ago in Santa
00:42:48Anita with all the breakdowns.
00:42:49I think they've done a great job in terms of improving the safety of the
00:42:53training and the racetrack.
00:42:55How would you compare the health of the California racing industry now compared
00:42:59to a couple of years ago?
00:43:01I think California has not gotten enough credit for the improvements we've
00:43:05made to check the injury numbers and rates.
00:43:09It's,
00:43:10it's dramatic what we've done.
00:43:12People work with horses since anybody can remember.
00:43:16And this is one of the last real things of people working and playing and
00:43:21being part of life with horses.
00:43:23And it should be admired,
00:43:24not hurt.
00:43:26There's always a few bad apples.
00:43:28You root those out.
00:43:30Just to follow up on,
00:43:31on the California thing.
00:43:32What,
00:43:33what things do you think California has done well to bring those injuries and
00:43:36those,
00:43:37those breakdown numbers down?
00:43:39I think a combination of many things and it's,
00:43:43and it's very time consuming.
00:43:46It's expensive to have the help do the check and recheck that checks.
00:43:53They've also,
00:43:54I think improved the maintenance on the racetrack racetrack.
00:43:59Probably wouldn't want to hear that,
00:44:00but that's probably part of the game.
00:44:03I just think it's just a correction of a lot of things that we've all stood up
00:44:06and realized we need to be more careful.
00:44:10And I wanted to go back to for urban kingdom for one more question.
00:44:13I guess it's a two part question,
00:44:15but can you talk about your relationship with my racehorse and spend thrift?
00:44:19It seems like you guys have been really successful so far.
00:44:21And then with that,
00:44:22if there are any future stars in your barn that maybe you could tell us about
00:44:26that haven't,
00:44:27haven't started yet.
00:44:30Great relationships,
00:44:32Wayne Hughes and Spencer.
00:44:34I started out with a bang.
00:44:36We had action to stay when the breeders cup,
00:44:39maybe the first year I trained for him
00:44:43and continued success after that.
00:44:46And then my racehorse asked me to join the program.
00:44:51And I was a little hesitant.
00:44:53Mr.
00:44:54Hughes explained to me,
00:44:56Richard,
00:44:57these,
00:44:58you might have 3000 people own these parts of these horses and then add up
00:45:02all of their friends and you're creating real fans.
00:45:06And that made it worthwhile.
00:45:08And that's exactly what happens.
00:45:09And the management of my racehorses is as good as it can be.
00:45:14Is it tough at all to manage a,
00:45:16you know,
00:45:17a horse that's owned by so many different people,
00:45:19or is it just the same?
00:45:20They have,
00:45:21they have the principles that you talk to.
00:45:23Is it difficult at all?
00:45:24That's pretty scary when you get them beat.
00:45:28All right,
00:45:29Richard,
00:45:30thank you so much for coming out.
00:45:31We appreciate the patience and getting you into the room and we appreciate
00:45:34the talk.
00:45:35It's good to talk to you.
00:45:36Okay.
00:45:38All right.
00:45:39Thanks Richard.
00:45:40The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group,
00:45:42an accounting,
00:45:43tax consulting,
00:45:44and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:45:46As this week's Green Group guest of the week,
00:45:48Richard Mandela will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
00:45:51Learn more at greenco.com.
00:45:54We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
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00:45:59breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisor?
00:46:01We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful.
00:46:04Over the past 40 years,
00:46:05founder Leonard Green has owned and bred some of the best race horses in
00:46:09the history of the sport.
00:46:10His in-depth hands-on industry knowledge combined with cutting edge tax
00:46:13saving strategies has produced positive results for his clientele and has
00:46:17made the Green Group the top rated accounting and tax firm in the business.
00:46:20For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
00:46:22contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:46:29The Green Group,
00:46:30proven strategies to save you taxes.
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00:47:03The TD Unravaged Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:47:05An extensive repository of workouts, handicapping videos.
00:47:09Basically everything you need to bet the races.
00:47:11The XBTV workout of the week this week is Classic Causeway.
00:47:14Brian Lynch, trainee, who worked in company with Cool Quest on Saturday at Palm Meadows.
00:47:19You can see right now going 5 for a lungs in 59.95.
00:47:23The Son of Giants Causeway ranked number 1 on TD Thornton's most recent derby top 12 list from this week.
00:47:29We'll see him this weekend in the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:47:32Obviously a very exciting top-class three-year-old.
00:47:35This derby trail really starts to heat up.
00:47:37And if you want to see any of those top three-year-olds working out for their next start, go to XBTV.com.
00:47:44Some more jockey news.
00:47:45This is, I think, more on the positive side, at least for me, because I'm going to take credit for this.
00:47:50You know, we had Flavien Pratt on a month or so ago.
00:47:54I was nudging him.
00:47:55I was pushing him.
00:47:56I was, come to New York.
00:47:57We really want to see you here.
00:47:58And lo and behold, Flavien Pratt and Umberto Rispoli over the weekend announced that they were going to be moving their tech to New York this spring.
00:48:06Flavien is going to go to Keeneland first for the spring meet and then is going to move along to Belmont.
00:48:12Flavien Pratt's, you know, stated reason for it was to try to win an Eclipse award.
00:48:16He basically was saying, you know, I can dominate all I want in California, but, you know,
00:48:20you really have to be in New York and be winning these big races consistently on the East Coast to win an Eclipse award.
00:48:26I don't necessarily know that that's true, but I think that he's right, that there's going to be more opportunity on the big stage for him over there.
00:48:33He's obviously a terrific rider, pound for pound, one of the best in the business, and I'm glad to see it.
00:48:38But the question is, how well are they going to be able to realistically do in a jockey colony that has the Ortiz brothers
00:48:45and Johnny Velasquez and Javier Castellano and just tons of top-class riders?
00:48:50It's the hardest place in the world to break into, as far as I'm concerned, as a jockey.
00:48:54But if anybody can do it, it's Flavien.
00:48:56We'll see about Humberto Rispo.
00:48:58He doesn't have quite the cachet that Flavien does, but he's also a very good rider.
00:49:01Any reactions from you guys on this move?
00:49:04Yeah, Joe, normally I agree with you on this one.
00:49:07I don't agree whatsoever.
00:49:09He is so dominant.
00:49:11I mean, California may not have the opportunities New York has.
00:49:16There's fewer racing days.
00:49:18Maybe, you know, there's maybe fewer big races.
00:49:20But he is so dominant there that it's a one-man show.
00:49:25And, you know, he's riding for Baffert.
00:49:27He's riding for all the big stables.
00:49:28He rides flight line for John Sadler.
00:49:30Every time a stakes race comes up there, he's either on the favor or the second choice.
00:49:34Now, why abandon that to go to New York where, look, he's going to be at least fourth-leading rider.
00:49:42There's no way he's going to be ahead of the two Ortiz brothers and Luis Saez.
00:49:46No way.
00:49:47And, you know, maybe in time he will, but at least at the start.
00:49:50And that doesn't even begin to talk about Rosario, John Velasquez, some other riders in there.
00:49:56I don't, to me, and obviously he disagrees, but to be the dominant rider in California
00:50:02versus the fourth or fifth best top rider in the standings in New York, I don't get it.
00:50:07I don't get it at all why he would want to do that.
00:50:10And, you know, I applaud for a guy for, you know, wanting to reach out and to, you know, do even better in his career.
00:50:16There's nothing wrong with that.
00:50:17But, again, I think on his part, it's not a good move.
00:50:20Matter of fact, when we were starting the show, we just got the email.
00:50:23A jockey of the week was Flavian Pratt because he won three stakes races at Santa Anita on the Saturday card.
00:50:31He's got 60 wins there, 25 more than anybody else in the standings.
00:50:36OK, so that's that.
00:50:38But a couple other ancillary topics for this.
00:50:41This doesn't speak well of California, that a guy like this wants to leave.
00:50:47You know, I guess, you know, the short fields, the lack of a lot of racing dates, you know, that he wants to go where he considers greener pastures.
00:50:56And then one last point on this, Rispoli's nuts because he's going to come in here.
00:51:01He's going to be the 11th leading rider.
00:51:04And somebody's going to have to pick up all these Pratt wins in California.
00:51:08And he very well could take advantage of this huge void.
00:51:13I mean, you have Juan Hernandez, Abel Cedillo, Victor Espinosa hardly ever rides.
00:51:18Mike Smith hardly ever rides.
00:51:19There is the California Riding Colony.
00:51:21Once Pratt is going, it's just begging for someone to come in and pick up all those wins.
00:51:26And I think Rispoli would have as good a chance as anybody.
00:51:28So I totally don't get what he's doing.
00:51:31I love when Bill comes in and is wishy-washy on the topic.
00:51:34He's nuts.
00:51:35He's freaking crazy.
00:51:37Why would he ever do that?
00:51:38And you know what, Bill, I can't disagree with you as much as I want to, as much as I really want to sink my teeth into that argument.
00:51:44You're absolutely right.
00:51:46I think that both these guys probably were, you know, talking independently of each other and probably didn't know what the other, the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing.
00:51:54And that's why they're both coming in.
00:51:55But I actually applaud, you know, Flavin Pratt for wanting to broaden his horizons.
00:52:00And, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, when horses are beating up on certain groups, whether it's because they're staying in their geographic area or they're only running against fillies or they're only running, you know, sprinting and they should try to run longer.
00:52:14We're always yearning for another challenge.
00:52:17And I think that's what Pratt is doing right now.
00:52:19He's looking at his own resume and he's saying, I've done everything I can out here in California, number one.
00:52:24Number two, Bill, to your point, California racing is not what it was.
00:52:28You know, it's not what it used to be as far as cachet and publicity.
00:52:35And he wants to see how he measures up against these other top riders.
00:52:39And the best way to do it is to go head to head.
00:52:41And, yeah, he's going to be fourth, fifth, sixth pick in a lot of these races.
00:52:46But I know when we look at the Saratoga charts and Joe, you're a handicapper, so you can probably back me up on this.
00:52:51But, you know, most of the races, not the claiming races, but most of the solid races, allowance rates, the state races, you know, they're four, five, six deep, you know, where you can make a case for that many horses.
00:53:02So to be the fourth or fifth or sixth best rider in New York, you know, maybe isn't the worst thing in the world because you're still going to have a puncher's chance in a lot of these races.
00:53:10Is he going to be even money favorite on a lot of the top races?
00:53:14No, that's the Ortiz brothers and Saez and a couple of the guys that we mentioned.
00:53:18But if he wants to add to his resume and he wants to get that elusive, you know, Eclipse award that, you know, the three of us have earned, you know, then that's what he has to do.
00:53:29He's got to come to New York and he's got to ride those kind of horses and then hopefully continue to carry and ride those horses into the Breeders' Cup races, which is which are on the East Coast this year in Kentucky, to be exact.
00:53:41So I actually applaud him for taking that shot.
00:53:43And, Bill, I agree with you also.
00:53:45I think Rispoli should stay home and just totally inherit the crown of being the best rider in California.
00:53:51Yeah, no.
00:53:52And like you said, who knows how much they communicated, you know, when they when they made these decisions?
00:53:57Maybe Ambrosio Rispoli will think better because I think he is a really good rider, too.
00:54:01And it's just like John says, you know, do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or do you want to be a medium sized fish in a big pond?
00:54:09And I respect that.
00:54:11He's he's I think he's saying to himself, you know, like John says, I've done all there is to do here in California.
00:54:18It's time for me to challenge myself at the top level possible.
00:54:22And that's New York. And that's, you know, especially as we get into the spring and Saratoga.
00:54:27No, he's not going to dominate the way he did in California, but he's still going to make plenty of money.
00:54:32But more and more importantly, he's going to be on the radar of every single top trainer.
00:54:38Almost, you know, 80, 75, 80 percent of the top trainers are going to be in New York for the summer at least.
00:54:45And you want to be that first call for those guys.
00:54:48He's already he's already written a decent amount of races for Chad Brown.
00:54:51He's won great ones for Chad Brown.
00:54:53But elsewhere in New York, he doesn't as far as I know, he doesn't have a ton of connections yet.
00:54:59And he's betting on himself. He's betting on his talent, which we all know is through the roof.
00:55:03And he's, you know, he's taking a shot.
00:55:05And there's nothing to say that if he goes and, you know, it doesn't work out the way he planned.
00:55:09He could easily go back to California and still win 100000 races.
00:55:13Like, it's not as if this has to be a permanent move or it's a career altering decision.
00:55:18I think he's just he's betting on himself and taking a shot.
00:55:21And I, you know, as someone who pushed him to do it on the show, I have to support it.
00:55:25You know, I can't I can't go back now and be like, you idiot.
00:55:28Why are you going to New York? You should just stay in California.
00:55:30I wanted to see him try. I wanted to see him challenge himself at that top, top level.
00:55:35And he's going to do it. So I appreciate that.
00:55:37I mean, Brian, it's always it's always exciting to get some new blood in the New York jockey colony, too.
00:55:41You know, as great as those guys are, like size and the Ortiz brothers,
00:55:44I get a little sick of seeing the same riders every day, you know, as a handicapper.
00:55:48So I think that this is going to be a good move for Flavian, good move for the fans, good move for the handicappers.
00:55:53And then, you know, we'll see. We'll see where it goes from there.
00:55:56But, you know, Flavian, now he has the full faith and first call of the Joe Bianca racing stable.
00:56:01So, you know, so there's that, you know, as soon as we get a horse.
00:56:05We got our jockey lined up.
00:56:08You just got to get a horse.
00:56:10So that means I got to put him on writer's room. Is that what you're saying?
00:56:12True that. Yeah. If she ever runs, he's got to fly.
00:56:15He's got a rider. All right.
00:56:17The TDN writer's room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:56:20Joining the West Point Thoroughbreds partnership can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie
00:56:24among people surrounding high class horses and stakes action for a fraction of the cost.
00:56:28Which I didn't trying to do it on your own.
00:56:30You can learn more at WestPointTB.com.
00:56:33And we got a flight line update over the past week.
00:56:36Flight line returned to the track at Santa Anita on Saturday.
00:56:39John Sadler kept his word that he's going to be back in training soon.
00:56:42And, you know, maybe maybe the Churchill down stakes in a couple of months.
00:56:46So after a strain in his hock kept them on the sidelines back on the track at Santa Anita,
00:56:50we're excited to see where he ends up next.
00:56:52Definitely want to see him a bunch of times the rest of this year if we can.
00:56:55And over the next week, West Point will have several runners at Aqueduct, Fairgrounds and Laurel.
00:57:00They have Jackson Traveler, Maryland bred champion three year old last year,
00:57:03three year old male running in the not for love stakes at Laurel.
00:57:07And then it looks like they'll have some graded stakes action coming up in the next two weeks.
00:57:10So we look forward to that as well.
00:57:12We'll be right back after this message from West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:57:17All the thrills.
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00:57:46Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
00:57:49We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
00:57:52We know it's a huge responsibility.
00:57:54We're always with your horse, every step of the way.
00:57:58When it comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse.
00:58:02Just driving up and down the road every day,
00:58:04there's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal,
00:58:08the people that come to invest in the game.
00:58:10I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can
00:58:13because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
00:58:18The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
00:58:21If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business can benefit your program,
00:58:25give Tommy or Wendy a call.
00:58:27They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own big weekend of racing
00:58:31for Legacy Bloodstock with five winners just over the weekend,
00:58:34including three black type horses.
00:58:36Congratulations to Tommy and Wendy and all the Legacy grads.
00:58:39One of those winners was Temple, who I mentioned earlier,
00:58:41who won the Grade 2 Mech Darmada.
00:58:43Going along on the turf, Legacy Bloodstock sales grads have now earned over $137 million.
00:58:50Great, great work from a small outfit who does a great job every single sale.
00:58:56Congratulations to the connections of everybody from the Legacy grads
00:59:00as well as the Legacy Bloodstock and Tommy and Wendy themselves.
00:59:03Just wanted to mention this before we head out of here.
00:59:06This is going to be the latest in the show that we ever gave a Bob Baffert legal update,
00:59:09so we're going to be pushing it further and further down in the show.
00:59:12Bob Baffert's attorney last week tried to get the KHRC to stay his suspension one more time.
00:59:19Now, before, it was the executive director, Mark Guilfoyle,
00:59:22who denied the stay of Baffert's suspension.
00:59:25This time, it went to the entire board at the KHRC, and they voted 10-0 to deny the stay.
00:59:32So now Baffert's only recourse is to go to the administrative law judge.
00:59:36That judge is going to hear that case and is not going to be able to rule until March 21st.
00:59:42So the earliest that Baffert's 90-day suspension can start is March 21st.
00:59:47We'll see if he gets that stay from the judge.
00:59:49But just once again, I just want to read a Clark Brewster quote that a 90-day suspension
00:59:55would be a virtual death blow to Bob Baffert's business, forcing the dispersal of his barn
01:00:01in a, quote, disruptive and irreparably damaging way.
01:00:04I mentioned it last week that this is just plain nonsense.
01:00:07Bob Baffert's going to be just fine even if he had to serve 90 days.
01:00:10Even if he had to serve nine months, he would be fine.
01:00:13He'd pick up right where he left off.
01:00:15But now it's officially out of the KHRC's hands and it's going to go to the administrative law judge.
01:00:20Just any notes from you guys?
01:00:22Just a little bit, Joe.
01:00:24This in and of itself was not a big deal.
01:00:27This was always going to happen.
01:00:30The Kentucky Racing Commission board was not going to overrule the executive director.
01:00:35So this is not going to be settled until it gets into, not even the administrative law judge,
01:00:40until it gets into the court system.
01:00:42And then it's going to be in the court system.
01:00:45There's going to be a verdict and there's probably going to be an appeal.
01:00:47So like everything else with him, nothing's going to happen anytime soon.
01:00:51So I'm sure they would have loved to have gotten a different decision out of the Kentucky Racing Commission.
01:00:56That was never going to happen and now see in court.
01:00:59Just one more thing I wanted to mention about that is, you know, the Kentucky Racing Commission, you know,
01:01:04made this renewed pledge for transparency recently, and then in this decision,
01:01:10they all went inside of a back room and told nothing to the public as they were deliberating,
01:01:15came back out and just did like a roll call vote read with no discussion whatsoever.
01:01:20They did have the council, the KHRC council, I thought made some good arguments.
01:01:24But just in general, I'd like to see some of these deliberations happen out in public.
01:01:28And I, you know, I don't know whether they're bound by regulation or whatever, that they can't do that.
01:01:32But I just think in general in the future, you know, for these regulatory meetings,
01:01:37just more transparency, less behind closed doors.
01:01:41Like, let's have a discussion about these things.
01:01:43Let's hear, let's hear both sides.
01:01:45Let's, you know, debate and discuss.
01:01:47I just, this is a small thing that, you know, I hope we see more of in the future.
01:01:52Okay, that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Writers Room presented by Keeneland.
01:01:56Remember that the Keeneland Horses of Racing Age sale is Friday, April 29th,
01:02:00which is also the last day of the Keeneland Spring Meet, which opens April 8th.
01:02:04We're looking forward to all that.
01:02:05I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green, our Green Group Guest of the Week, Richard Mandela,
01:02:09our producer, Patty Wolf, our associate producer and interviewer this week, Katie Petruniak,
01:02:13and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:02:17Thank you so much for watching.
01:02:21See you next week.