Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:18This is our life's work.
00:21Good morning, it is 9.03, too early guys, come on.
00:28Wednesday, January 19th, this is the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
00:32My name is Joe Bianca, I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:36John is off this week and it's a very slow news week for racing, so I hope you don't
00:40mind if we just talk to our guest co-host about the NFL playoffs for like 45 minutes.
00:45That's fine, I'm ready for it.
00:50We'll get to that in just a minute, I'm Bill Finley, Correspondent for the Thoroughbred
00:53Daily News.
00:54John's off this week, Joe, next week you're going to be off.
00:58Here I am, week after week, the Cal Ripken of the TDN Writer's Room.
01:06And I'm the substitute Randy Moss with NBC Sports, as Joe alluded to, I've also done
01:10quite a bit of work for NFL Network over the years, so I've been religiously watching all
01:14these playoff games as well.
01:17That takes a lot of commitment because there were a lot of blowouts this weekend, you were
01:20religiously watching those.
01:23It was tough at times, it was a tough watch on several of those, yeah.
01:26Hopefully it'll be more competitive as we go on.
01:28I think it will, I think it will.
01:30So thanks to Randy for joining us, looking forward to the show.
01:33The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
01:35Keeneland's Spring Meet returns April 8th through the 29th.
01:38New Keeneland Select accounts that wager $300 in the first 30 days earn $100 back.
01:43With their sign-up bonus, visit KeenelandSelect.com to sign up.
01:48So as I alluded to in the open, it's not a huge news week for racing.
01:54It's scrambled for a couple of topics this week, but Michael Baychuk gave us one.
01:57If you don't know Michael Baychuk, he's a pretty high-profile horse player.
02:01He won the NHC a couple of years ago.
02:04He was spearheading the class action lawsuit against Bob Baffert over the Derby, talking
02:10about all the money that was cost people who had Mandaloon, which included me.
02:14I would have had like a $7,000 pick for if Mandaloon had won that race, had not joined
02:19the suit yet.
02:20I'm still waiting to see how it shakes out.
02:22But it seems like that suit isn't really going to succeed.
02:25And Baychuk said this week that he was so disgusted by Bob Baffert and by what he sees
02:31as rampant cheating in racing that he says he's going to leave.
02:35He says he's not going to play the horses anymore, really.
02:37He's going to focus mostly on sports betting, which has just become legal in a lot of different
02:42states.
02:43So a little bit of a personal story about that.
02:46I wonder if this is kind of a canary in the coal mine for racing because even though the
02:50handle numbers are good, we discussed last week, we debated whether or not that was just
02:54increased wagering from the CAW wagers, whether it was true growth.
02:58I think there are a lot of people, especially high-profile people and people that have kind
03:02of made a living in this game who are sick of it, who are sick of getting beaten by cheaters
03:07and juice jobs.
03:08And I've certainly had those frustrations over the years.
03:11But you guys play the horses.
03:13So I'm wondering what Bill and Randy think if this is kind of you think that there might
03:16be a trend or if this is just a one off?
03:19Well, whether there's going to be a trend or not, Joe, and we'll find out.
03:23Let's hope that people that run horse racing listen to Michael Bachok, because I think
03:29he does represent, you know, people who, like you said, are fed up.
03:35And back in 1964, the Michael Baicheks of the world had no alternatives.
03:40You either bet on horses or you didn't gamble or, you know, you might have gone to Las Vegas.
03:44That was it.
03:45Now, as he mentioned, he also said there's daily fantasy sports in Louisiana.
03:50Like so many other states, the sports wagering is on its way.
03:54And as a consumer, he is, among other things, you know, let's put aside the fact that he's
03:59fed up and the whole Baffert thing.
04:01If you're a consumer and you like to gamble, would you rather gamble on something where
04:06the takeout is 20 percent or would you rather bet on something where the takeout is six
04:11percent or what have you, and is something that is immensely more popular and more well
04:18known than horse racing, the NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball whatsoever?
04:23So he said, I'm a consumer.
04:25This is the horse racing does not offer me the best product.
04:30So that's number one.
04:31And number two, yeah, he is disgusted.
04:34And I'm sure he said he would have won more than $50,000 if Mandaloon had won the Kentucky
04:40Derby.
04:41And, you know, if I were in his shoes, I would be very disgusted, too.
04:44I don't know if I would have sued Bob Baffert like he did.
04:47But, you know, those things do leave an awful bad taste in your mouth.
04:52So, you know, he said he's absolutely had it.
04:55He's out.
04:56And the question is, how many more Michael Bay chucks in the world are out there?
05:00And, you know, looking back on it, I'm surprised he didn't even bring up what I think is, you
05:04know, an even more important issue than the issues he brought up.
05:07And I talk a lot about this because I think it's very important is a computer assisted
05:11wagering.
05:12You know, these guys are cleaning everybody else's clock.
05:15And, you know, if you're not playing with the computers and the algorithms, you're going
05:18up against competition that you just can't beat, which makes the game so much more tougher
05:23than it was before these guys came around.
05:25So, yeah, is are there more Michael Bay chucks?
05:28We don't know.
05:29We'll see.
05:31Horse racing industry leaders, please listen to this guy.
05:33Yeah, I think Bill just sort of drilled down to the key issues there.
05:38Not so much the specific issues that this suit represents, but just the overall lack
05:44of respect, representation, whatever that horseplayers have gotten from racetracks and
05:51from the horse racing industry over the years with the takeout, with the breakage, things
05:55like that.
05:56I mean, horse horseplayers need to have a bigger voice.
06:00They need to be listened to more than they are now.
06:03And hopefully we'll see that going forward.
06:05I don't know, Michael.
06:07Maybe I've met him.
06:08I don't know if I have or not.
06:09I haven't talked to him about this.
06:12I doubt if he thinks he's got any chance at all to win this suit.
06:17I think it's probably more symbolic, trying to make a moral point, trying to take a stand
06:22more than anything else.
06:25It's a little like suing horseplayers getting together for a class action suit as the result
06:32of what they perceive to be a bad steward's call.
06:36Or we talked about the NFL suing because of a bad officiating call that you think knocks
06:42you out of a wager.
06:44Not much of a chance, I think, for that to succeed.
06:47I will say this.
06:49I'm always on the side of the horse player.
06:51I do take minor exception, really more than minor exception, to something that Michael
06:58did say when he sort of lumped Bob Baffert in with Jorge Navarro and Jason Service in
07:06one particular sentence that he pointed out as to why he's so frustrated with the sport.
07:10I do think we have a drug problem in the sport.
07:14Obviously, Baffert has been at fault with the overages, the medication overages that
07:20we've seen with Medina Spirit, Gamine, and other horses.
07:24I would hesitate to put Baffert in that category, but I can certainly understand his frustration
07:33at having bet on Mandaloon or whoever else he might have bet on in that consecutive year.
07:37Yeah, I mean, that's fair.
07:38I just wanted to read the quote from Michael Baychok because I think it's kind of representative
07:44of how a lot of people feel in the business.
07:46He says, I'm just fed up with the drug cheating.
07:49I'm fed up with the takeout.
07:50I'm fed up that we apparently can't get into a position to implement new and better drug
07:54testing.
07:55I have more outlets now to gamble.
07:56I live in Louisiana, which was a state up until last year where the only thing available
08:00was horse racing.
08:01Now, there's daily fantasy sports, and the takeout is much, much better.
08:04Soon, they'll have online sports betting.
08:07I am a consumer.
08:08I have just found better products.
08:10It's hard to argue with any of that, honestly.
08:12And it's the kind of thing that I feel not necessarily on a day-to-day basis in racing,
08:16but just overall.
08:17It's kind of feel the same way.
08:18And over the weekend, on Sunday, or it was either Saturday or Sunday, I was alive in
08:25like an aqueduct pit for decent money.
08:28And I don't know if this has ever happened to you guys, but I had a single in the last
08:31leg.
08:32Horse was six to five in the morning line.
08:34Probably should have been four to five or so at post.
08:38And the horse opens up at like five to two.
08:40And I was like, I know I'm screwed.
08:42I absolutely know I'm screwed because when those horses open up that cold on the board,
08:46they hardly ever win.
08:48The horse lost.
08:49And it just gave me a bad taste in my mouth.
08:51So you know what I did the rest of the day?
08:53I opened up my FanDuel sportsbook, and I just bet on the NFL and basketball.
08:57And I did not place a single horse racing wager the rest of the day.
09:01And that's not necessarily one of these egregious things where you feel like you've been wronged
09:06or it's unjust.
09:07But it doesn't take a lot.
09:09Honestly, now that sports betting is legal, I don't think it's going to take a lot to
09:13push people in that direction.
09:15A, it's easier.
09:16There's a million things going on.
09:18It's not as intricate of a handicapping process.
09:22You can just pop on the TV.
09:23You can do live betting.
09:25You can see how the game is going and then decide to put a bet in.
09:28It's just so much more accessible and so much more simple, I would say, than betting on
09:34the horses.
09:35And I just think that there is that kind of danger that you push people who have been
09:40supporting the game for so long to the edge when they finally now have different options.
09:45I don't think that when people say that they're worried about sports betting taking a racing
09:50spot in the online wagering hemisphere, I don't know that that's necessarily going to
09:54be the case for people who wouldn't bet racing ever.
09:58I think they were just going to go to sports no matter what.
10:00But in this case, where you have sports bettors who also bet the races, I think it might make
10:06them more inclined to lean towards sports betting the next time they lose to a guy that
10:10they think is cheating.
10:11I think that that's a real danger.
10:13And that's why I wanted to talk about this, because I think Michael Baychuk speaks for
10:16a lot of horse players in that way.
10:18And I consider myself among them.
10:20Yeah, I'd just like to bring up one other point here.
10:23I don't think they'll win the lawsuit either.
10:26But however, there is an interesting precedent to this.
10:29A couple of years back, a very similar thing happened in harness racing where the infraction
10:34from the trainer was more serious than anything Baffert had done.
10:38I believe the guy was caught blood doping and his horse was disqualified and a harness
10:42better filed exactly the same sort of suit.
10:45My horse finished second.
10:46If your horse hadn't been juiced, I would have won and I would have won whatever amount
10:50of money was.
10:51He actually got money out of it.
10:53I wrote about this for the TDN.
10:54I believe he got about $20,000.
10:56The trainer and the owner settled out of court.
10:59So I'm sure their lawyer said, look, you know, give the guy $20,000.
11:03He'll go away.
11:04If you don't, you're going to have to spend $50,000 paying me to go to trial with this.
11:08Now, the difference there is, you know, Baffert has no problem.
11:14I assume Bob Baffert is a very wealthy man and he doesn't need to.
11:18He's not going to settle out of court with a guy if the legal bills are going to pile
11:21up a little bit.
11:23I'm sure that he'll fight this, but it's not the first time this has happened.
11:27And again, the harness better did not win a lawsuit, but did get a pretty nice settlement
11:33from the person they sued in there.
11:35I was going to say, Bob Baffert may be wealthy, but the longer this stuff goes on, Craig Robinson
11:40is going to be even wealthier.
11:42He's got a lot of lawsuits on his docket.
11:43Sorry, Randy, go ahead.
11:45No, no, no.
11:46I was just going to say, we could spend the rest of this whole podcast talking about the
11:49challenges that horse players face and the frustrations that they face trying to stay
11:55in the game and stick it out, right?
11:57The takeout, dwindling field size that suppresses the odds in races all around the country,
12:04the computer-assisted wagering, the fact that so much of the casual money has now been
12:09drained from the sport with the casual racing fans playing casino games or sports betting
12:15or poker or whatever else, you name it.
12:18It's amazing that the sport is as healthy as it still is when you look at the wagering
12:25totals year after year after year.
12:27Yes, they've gone down, but still there's a substantial amount of money bet in horse
12:31racing, and at least it gives encouragement that we can get the ship going in the right
12:35direction.
12:37The TDN Writers Room was brought to you by Keeneland.
12:39Keeneland concluded its four-day January sale last Friday.
12:42Saw 1,013 horses find new homes for a gross of over $46 million, second-highest gross
12:48since their 2008 sale.
12:50The average dipped a little bit to $45,746, but the $20,000 median was up 33%.
12:57And a very good sign, the buyback rate was only 19.35% down from over 21% last year,
13:03so that's always good news.
13:04Seems like the sales industry in general, R&As were going down over the last year or
13:08so since we're starting to emerge from the pandemic.
13:11Keeneland has also announced the dates for its spring meeting, which I mentioned, which
13:14will run from April 8th through the 29th this year, featuring a bevy of stakes races, highlighted
13:19as always by the $1 million Toyota Bluegrass, which will be run April 9th.
13:23We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
13:27They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
13:33And this is hard work.
13:36It's the hours put in before dawn and after dark.
13:41It's the sacrifice, the sweat, the failure, and the faith.
13:48This is our industry.
13:52This is our life's work.
13:56Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate-to-wire win in the Florida Derby.
14:02Champion 3-year-old.
14:04Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
14:0911 triple-digit buyers.
14:11Maximum Security, he smoked them in the cigar mile.
14:15Grade 1 winning 4-year-old.
14:17Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
14:22Secure your mayor's future.
14:24Maximum Security.
14:27The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
14:29Just this Monday, the first full for champion 3-year-old Maximum Security
14:33was born at Delridge Farm in Lexington.
14:35When Pussyfoot, a full sister to Morning Line,
14:37pulled a Bay Philly bred by Gary and Mary West,
14:40obviously my favorite Coolmore stallion, Cupid.
14:42Gotta mention him, had two winners in three days this week.
14:45When Valentina Day won her second straight at Turfway
14:47just two days after Love Her Lots was a winner at Gulfstream.
14:50Cupid's now the sire of 25 winners, including grade 3 winner God of Love.
14:55Stands for just $5,000 at Coolmore.
14:57At this point, you'd be stupid not to breed to him at that price.
15:00And Munnings became the leading sire of stakes winners in the new year
15:03when Fast Draw Munnings became his third black-type winner in 2022,
15:07winning the Cow Cup Derby over at Santa Anita.
15:10So Coolmore stallions definitely rolling.
15:12So we've had our big fish so far in the FBI indictments
15:16and the doping scandal was Jorge Navarro.
15:19And Bill, I was so jealous that you were there to see Jorge Navarro
15:22cry like a baby in court.
15:23I wish I would have loved to have been there.
15:26But then we had a couple other big fishes coming.
15:29We're past the defendants who have pled guilty phase now.
15:33Now is when the trials start.
15:34The people that chose to bring it to trial,
15:36including Jason Service, are going to go on trial
15:39in probably the next couple of months or so.
15:41The first trials start today, January 19th,
15:44with Seth Fishman and Lisa Gianelli, I think is her name.
15:49They were supposedly the manufacturers and distributors of PEDs,
15:53allegedly.
15:54So the government trials are going to start today.
15:57I'm curious what you guys think about,
15:59are they going to get more time, do you think,
16:01if they're found guilty than Jorge Navarro
16:04and the people who pled guilty did?
16:06I'm a little unclear on that and what the possible sentence time frame is.
16:11What do you think?
16:12I don't know.
16:13But my guess would be that it's not going to make any difference
16:16because, again, this judge has been throwing the book at everybody.
16:21And so these are jury trials.
16:22So their guilt or innocence will be decided by a jury,
16:25but the sentencing will be done by the judge.
16:28And as I've said before,
16:30just being in that courtroom with her for the Navarro trial for a couple hours,
16:33I mean, she's a tough cookie.
16:34And she's really gone hard on all these people.
16:38But it'll be interesting.
16:39First of all, a couple of things.
16:40I'm very surprised all these people are taking this trial.
16:43Because back when this whole thing started
16:45and all the numbers and everything in my head are kind of jumbled up.
16:49I remember writing about that.
16:52I think it's 95% of the people who take this to trial
16:56against the federal government are found guilty.
16:59And the chances of getting off are just so slim.
17:03And then if you've been following the trial
17:05and understand all the evidence against these people,
17:09the cases look to be extremely strong.
17:12So I think at the end of the day,
17:14Seth Fishman and Lisa Giannulli will be convicted in here.
17:19And we'll wind up going to jail.
17:22And T.D. Thornton wrote about this.
17:24One of the more interesting side notes to this
17:27is that Fishman hired this attorney, Mark Affernich,
17:30F-E-R-N-I-C-H,
17:32who I was told by a source his retainer is half a million dollars
17:37just to get him to walk through the door.
17:39And he's apparently a huge deal.
17:42And his clients in the past have included El Chapo and Jeffrey Epstein.
17:48Now, you say, well, this guy is as good as he gets
17:52when it comes to defense attorneys.
17:54Can he get Fishman off?
17:55I don't think so.
17:57And last I checked, Jeffrey Epstein's dead
17:59and El Chapo's in jail for the rest of his life.
18:01So he didn't exactly do a great job for them.
18:04Now, did he?
18:04Well, if Fishman indeed paid a $500,000 retainer
18:10to hire his lawyer,
18:11one of the interesting aspects of this is that
18:14he may not be listening to everything that his lawyer has advised
18:17because this morning, right?
18:19Wednesday morning, Washington Post,
18:22there is an article on the front page of the sports section.
18:24I believe it's on the front page of the sports
18:26in which Seth Fishman has talked to a Washington Post reporter.
18:31In the story, the person who wrote the article says
18:34that Fishman spoke to her against the advice of the attorney.
18:40The headline in that article, by the way, says
18:42as his doping case goes to trial, Seth Fishman says,
18:46it's horse racing that's corrupt.
18:49Now, we've seen many times in the past,
18:51the Washington Post is no friend of horse racing.
18:54So it's not surprising to read that kind of a headline
18:57coming out of the Washington Post.
18:58But the article is very interesting.
19:01When you read the article, you come away with the conclusion,
19:04even though it's the Washington Post,
19:06that there's very little chance that Fishman can beat this.
19:09It's going to be interesting to see what happens.
19:11As Bill pointed out,
19:12the judge, Mary Kay Viscasill is her name.
19:16She was a former bankruptcy judge
19:19who was appointed by Donald Trump to this position
19:22at the U.S. District Court of the Southern District
19:24of New York back in 2019.
19:27Bill was at the Navarro trial when you see,
19:29or the sentencing, when you read the transcripts
19:33of what Viscasill said to Navarro and about Navarro
19:38at sentencing, it was unbelievably harsh.
19:41So it certainly would lead you to believe
19:43that whether it's a case that the defendants plead guilty,
19:48and we've had nine that have pleaded guilty,
19:51six have been sentenced, and three are awaiting sentencing,
19:54or the ones that go to a jury trial,
19:57you certainly get the impression that Viscasill
20:00is going to be giving them the maximum allowable sentence,
20:04regardless of whether they plead guilty or not.
20:08Yeah, it's a fascinating story that starts with a tale
20:11of him taking care of the UAE kingdom's camels.
20:15So this guy's a Renaissance man
20:17when it comes to his veterinary practices.
20:21Yeah, it's funny that you pay a guy a $500,000 retainer
20:25and then immediately go talk to the press
20:28against his wishes.
20:29That's a hell of a strategy to win a federal trial here.
20:33But yeah, I'm curious.
20:36I'm curious for this as kind of a bellwether
20:40to how the Jason Service trial is going to go,
20:42because he had the chance to plead guilty.
20:44We talked about this before.
20:46So many people changing their pleas to guilty,
20:48I thought, it showed that they were going to try
20:51to implicate Jason Service as the mastermind here,
20:54and then maybe a couple of these other guys as well.
20:56So that's what's interesting,
20:58and whether or not people are going to get
21:00more than the five years Jorge Navarro got.
21:02Because five years, it's a long time,
21:04especially for a federal sentence.
21:05But I don't know.
21:06It seems like there's something bigger coming down the pike
21:09for some of these other defendants, at least.
21:11But we'll keep tabs on that and keep you guys posted
21:14as developments warrant.
21:16So one other little interesting point on this,
21:18if I can jump in, Joe,
21:20in that Washington Post article,
21:22this is not the first time that Seth Fishman
21:24has run afoul of the law.
21:26And he has cooperated in the past,
21:29apparently according to this article,
21:32with law enforcement against other potential defendants.
21:37In this particular case,
21:39Fishman claims that the federal government
21:42wanted him to wear a wire
21:45and cooperate against Navarro's service,
21:50et cetera, et cetera.
21:51His quote was that he decided that wearing a wire
21:55would violate two of the Ten Commandments.
21:58Thou shalt not lie and thou shalt not bear false witness.
22:02So he said he decided to take his chance
22:07with a jury trial and we'll see what happens.
22:10But Randy, we all know what the 11th Commandment is.
22:12Thou shalt not juice racehorses.
22:19Thou shalt not claim off of Jason service or Navarro.
22:22That was definitely a commandment in racing
22:23for a little time.
22:25Yeah.
22:26Very pious.
22:27Very pious, Seth Fishman, I'm sure.
22:29The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you
22:31by Lane's End Farm.
22:32Lane's End.
22:33Stallion of the week this week is Union Rags.
22:35Union Rags is a sire of Express Train,
22:37winner of the grade two San Antonio Stakes
22:39opening day at Santa Anita.
22:40Got up in the last stride to beat the big favorite,
22:43Hot Rod Charlie, who's on his way to Dubai.
22:45Express Train was a $500,000 Keeneland September yearling
22:48whose earnings are now over $800,000.
22:51He's one of 13 greatest stakes winners
22:53for Union Rags today.
22:54That's a pretty damn good number.
22:55And on Friday, Spielberg, who was Union Rags'
22:58$1 million Keeneland September yearling,
23:01grading stakes winning grade one placed.
23:03Spielberg made his first start
23:05since the Florida Derby last March
23:07and won an allowance race very impressively at Santa Anita.
23:09So look forward to seeing where he heads next.
23:11We'll be right back after this message from Lane's End.
23:15Union Rags.
23:16Proving Lane's End's tried and true stallion making formula.
23:20A formula that leads to success for our partners
23:23and our stallions.
23:24He's a leader in his sire crop
23:25by graded stakes winners and grade one winners.
23:28He's a commercial standout with multiple million-dollar sales
23:32and a six-figure yearling average.
23:34And with four full books bred at 50 and 60,000,
23:37he has even more exciting progeny in the pipeline.
23:41Union Rags.
23:42A stallion that stands above the rest.
23:54So
24:15the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
24:18The XBTV Workout of the Week this week
24:20is this five-for-one breeze
24:22turned in by the very impressive Shamstakes winner, Newgrange,
24:25who's the horse on the outside here.
24:27He's tugging at his rider throughout the work.
24:29He edges past stablemate Pinehurst at the Wire.
24:31Pinehurst, if you remember,
24:33was the winner of the grade one Del Mar Futurity
24:36back in September.
24:37Newgrange is currently number nine
24:39on TD Thornton's Derby Top 12 list at the TDN.
24:42The first editions of that have started to come out.
24:45So definitely, derby contenders,
24:47there's no better place to watch their workouts than XBTV.
24:51And you can watch them this early on the trail as well.
24:54The workouts at Gulfstream, Palm Meadows, Santa Anita.
24:57So it's never too early to get involved
25:00in handicapping potential derby contenders.
25:02And definitely go watch those replays
25:04if you're going to place a future bet or anything in that realm.
25:07Go check them out on XBTV.
25:10The Green Group Guest of the Week
25:11is sponsored by The Green Group,
25:12an accounting, tax, consulting, and advisory firm
25:15specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
25:17With over 500 clients in the horse business,
25:19they have proven strategies to save you taxes.
25:21Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
25:26So we are honored this week
25:27to bring on as The Green Group Guest of the Week,
25:29Kentucky State Representative, Adam Kinney,
25:31who is introducing a bill to get rid of breakage
25:34and lots of other good stuff for racing in Kentucky.
25:36Adam, thanks for coming on.
25:37Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
25:40So great to have you.
25:41And the more I read about you,
25:43the more I like that you're in the Kentucky State Legislature.
25:45Let's start with the breakage thing
25:47because breakage has been a thorn in the side
25:49of horseplayers for a long time,
25:51seemingly for no reason, honestly.
25:53But can you just explain for people who don't know,
25:55can you explain the history
25:56of where breakage laws come from
25:57and why they've been allowed to exist for so long?
26:01Well, gosh, I think breakage laws go back
26:05so far that we came to figure out
26:06when they were passed in Kentucky.
26:09But obviously there was a time 100 years ago
26:11when it was the only place to go
26:14and legally make wagers was the racetrack.
26:17And so anybody that wanted to have some fun
26:19and make some wagers went and they had high attendance
26:24on a regular basis at the tracks.
26:26The lines were deep and it was something done
26:29to make it easier to cash people out.
26:32And of course they didn't have computers
26:34to figure out how much was being wagered.
26:36They were, I guess, counting the money in the back
26:38and figuring out the odds in real time by hand.
26:42So it probably also made it easier
26:43from that perspective to not get it all the way down
26:46to the penny.
26:47But obviously we all know those days have come and gone
26:50and it's time for our laws to reflect today's reality.
26:55And which is, you can get paid,
26:57I get paid down to the penny
26:58and the rare occasion I hit a superfecta.
27:01So we should be able to do that for everything.
27:04Well, Adam, again, it's great to hear somebody
27:06on your side of the fence, the politicians talk about this
27:09because as Joe said, this is something horseplayers
27:11have been complaining about for absolute years.
27:14So first of all, take us back.
27:16How did you first get this idea to approach this?
27:19And secondly, read the political landscape for us.
27:23Are you confident that at the end of the day,
27:25this bill you're introducing will pass
27:26and we will see no breakage in Kentucky?
27:31Well, the idea came, I'm a regular listener
27:34of Steve Bick's show in the mornings
27:36and I heard him have Pat Cummings on to talk about that
27:42and some of the other ideas
27:44from the Thoroughbred Idea Foundation.
27:46And I just kind of tucked that in the back of my mind.
27:49Later, Senator Damon Thayer,
27:51which probably everybody knows,
27:54he invited me to dinner with Pat Cummings
27:57and Craig Burnick to talk about other issues.
28:01And now we're at a time when we have an opportunity
28:05to do something about it.
28:06This is going to be a comprehensive
28:07parimutuel wagering reform or modernization bill.
28:12And that's going to be one of the main parts of it.
28:15And thanks to my, as she's called herself,
28:20the free media maven, Jenny Reese,
28:22she's helped get this issue more attention.
28:27But we're going to do a lot in this bill,
28:29but breakage is certainly probably my favorite part of it
28:33as a guy who does wagering and nothing else in the business.
28:39Well, it's great to hear an elected official
28:41who talks about how much he likes wagering.
28:44On the topic of the chances of getting it passed.
28:48Now, I went to YouTube yesterday
28:50and watched Kentucky public television debate,
28:53I think from last fall.
28:55That specifically was about historical horse racing,
28:59but you and Damon were on there.
29:01Some Democrats were on there.
29:03When we see Democrats and Republicans
29:05on the same stage politically,
29:07we're accustomed to seeing the flamethrowers come out.
29:09But there was an unusual amount of harmony, it seemed,
29:13between the two sides when the topic was horse racing.
29:17Is that something that's just unique to Kentucky
29:21because of the importance of horse racing to the sport?
29:23Can you talk about that cooperation a little bit there?
29:27There are issues in Kentucky
29:29that aren't Republican and Democrat,
29:32they're urban and rural.
29:34And I chair the House Committee
29:37on Licensing Occupations and Administrative Regulations.
29:40And we, among other things,
29:42handle all things gambling and alcohol.
29:45So I get to deal with this on both those issues.
29:49These are urban rural issues.
29:51So Democrats and Republicans
29:55generally agree on expanded gaming.
29:57I'm sorry, urban folks,
30:00which means Democrats and Republicans,
30:02both tend to agree on expanded gaming
30:04and expanded alcohol.
30:07And I've led the charge on that
30:09along with Senator Thayer,
30:12as well as a few other,
30:13Speaker Osborne, who's a horse breeder and owner.
30:19So we've worked collaboratively together.
30:22But obviously with the HHR bill that we passed last year,
30:26it was a very heavy lift.
30:27It had been the biggest change in Kentucky gambling law
30:32since we passed the lottery, I think, in 1988.
30:35So it was a heavy lift.
30:38And there was an agreement
30:40in order to get some of the votes
30:43to make sure that we were getting enough revenue
30:45for the general fund
30:46from these historical horse racing machines
30:50to look at the tax rate for that.
30:53And to Speaker Osborne
30:56and Senate President Stivers' credit,
30:59they said, why don't you just look at everything
31:00in parimutuel wagering?
31:02So we're going to change the tax rates
31:06on all wagers
31:09because they go from one half of 1% on ADWs
31:13to 3% on simulcast bets.
31:16Those are all going to be evened out.
31:18Everything's going to be one and a half percent,
31:19which is what a live wager is.
31:23And it also is what HHR is taxed at.
31:27And there's these underlying rates
31:30where some money goes
31:31to the Thoroughbred Development Fund,
31:33Standard Bread Development Fund,
31:35University of Louisville program,
31:38several other things
31:40that those tax rates were created,
31:42most of them by Senator Thayer over the years,
31:45that made sense at the time,
31:48may not make as much sense now.
31:50So some of them are going to be changed a little bit,
31:53but certainly we're going to make sure
31:54that we keep the success
31:56of the Thoroughbred Development Fund
31:58and the purse growth continuing to go up
32:03and make Kentucky the place to not just breed
32:06as well as run your horses.
32:09I wanted to ask you
32:10because you're the lead sponsor
32:11on the sports betting bill as well
32:13in the Kentucky legislature.
32:14And you mentioned Jenny Reese,
32:15shout out to Jenny Reese who does a great job.
32:18She said that there might be some
32:19quote unquote safeguards for racing in that bill.
32:22Can you explain what that would mean?
32:24The bill as it's currently constructed
32:27makes the track owners or the operators,
32:32the ones that get the sports wagering license.
32:35And part of that is again,
32:37an urban rural thing.
32:39There's a lot of urban or rural folks
32:41that might be willing to vote for it
32:43as long as you're not going to have
32:45a sports betting facility in there,
32:48in your district,
32:49in their part of the world.
32:50So as long as it's kept to those urban areas
32:53and they don't have to see it,
32:54then it's easier for a few members to vote that way.
32:59And we're at the point where I think Indiana
33:02next door is 80% of their wagers are mobile.
33:06New Jersey, 90% of their wagers are mobile.
33:08So most of that wagering either way
33:12will take place on people's phones.
33:16Adam, as you tackle breakage,
33:18the other big issue that horse players
33:21have such a problem with
33:22is the high takeout in the sport.
33:24And you talk about sports wagering,
33:27which has been so unbelievably successful
33:30as it swept across the country,
33:31no surprise to anyone.
33:32One of the main reasons why it's more successful
33:34than horse racing betting
33:35is because the price is different.
33:37It's much, much lower.
33:38Is this ever something that a legislature could tackle
33:41so far as bringing takeout rates on horse racing down?
33:44And if not,
33:45how could that possibly happen in Kentucky?
33:48So I'm not saying get it equal to sports betting,
33:51but instead of maybe 20%,
33:53get it down to 13 or 14% or something like that.
33:55Well, there are max takeouts in Kentucky statute,
34:00and I'm not going to change those in this bill.
34:04That is something that I would much rather see
34:07the markets take care of
34:10and let our operators,
34:13CDI,
34:15Keeneland,
34:16Kentucky Downs,
34:17Ellis Park,
34:19figure it out,
34:19how to make their product competitive going forward.
34:23In any discussion legislatively
34:26about horse racing in Kentucky,
34:28we would always assume
34:29that the 300-pound gorilla in the room
34:31would be Churchill Lounge Incorporated
34:33and Keeneland as well.
34:34Since breakage,
34:37since any change in the breakage rules
34:38would take money out of the pockets of the racetracks
34:41in the ADWs like Twin Spires,
34:43can we assume that Churchill Lounge
34:44is 100% on board with this?
34:49Actually, I'm still working on the bill.
34:52Getting into those tax rates is not my specialty.
34:55So we haven't got it out there.
35:00I briefed the operators in general
35:03on what I'm planning on doing.
35:06I've not yet received pushback.
35:07I'm sure I will.
35:10But look, I live five minutes from Turf Way.
35:15They're building a beautiful facility there.
35:18They've got multiple facilities in Louisville.
35:21They've got one in Hoptown in a harness track.
35:27They're making plenty of money on the HHR facilities.
35:33And I think they can,
35:34certainly on the breakage front,
35:36they can stand to help out the betters.
35:39As I said multiple times now,
35:43we've taken care of the tracks.
35:45We've taken care of the breeders
35:48and the trainers and the jockeys.
35:50And we need all of them to make the show run.
35:52We also need the betters to make the show run.
35:55And by God, I'm going to take care of the betters,
35:58not just because I'm one,
36:00but because we need to take care of those folks
36:04without whom we don't have an industry.
36:06Can we multiply you by like 500
36:08and put you in state legislatures across the country?
36:11It's music to my ears.
36:15On the horseplayers front,
36:17I had a more general question.
36:20You were instrumental in protecting HHR in Kentucky,
36:23which is a huge deal.
36:25Like you said, it was a heavy lift and I'm sure it was.
36:28But I think Kentucky has a little bit of an advantage
36:30in that the sport is so woven into the fabric of the state.
36:34You had a lot of industry support for that bill as well.
36:37There are other states where legislatures and governors
36:40are trying to take away funds from racing.
36:43And I think that the public and the legislature
36:45are not as sympathetic to the sport
36:47as they may be in Kentucky.
36:49What would be your recommendations?
36:50What kind of arguments would you suggest people make
36:53in other states about why racing needs to stick around?
36:58Well, in Kentucky, we only have so many signature industries.
37:00So it's easier to point to the jobs, to the marketing,
37:04to the fact that when you go outside of Kentucky
37:07and you say, I'm from Kentucky,
37:09the first thing most people think of is the Kentucky Derby.
37:13And second thing they think of is bourbon nowadays,
37:16thankfully.
37:16So it's easier to make that argument
37:20and the jobs and the marketing in Kentucky.
37:23But in some of these other states,
37:28you point to the jobs.
37:30And one thing I think that I work in a lot of these states
37:33is you point to the green space.
37:37This is areas that if you're
37:39an environmentally sensitive legislator,
37:42you got your breeding programs.
37:44And that's just a bunch of open green space
37:47that's good for the environment,
37:49creates high paying jobs in many ways.
37:52And it is a great place for folks
37:56who are new to the country to go and work.
38:00It's a good place to learn a good work ethic
38:03no matter where you come from.
38:05And I don't know, it's just an enjoyable sport.
38:12And I think one thing that some of these states need to do
38:15is do a better job of getting their legislators
38:17to the big days.
38:20We have to buy our tickets to the Derby and Oaks,
38:23but we get the opportunity to do that.
38:26And that's a big deal.
38:27You get people to Keeneland.
38:31That's great.
38:31I don't know if California has ever made sure
38:34that they get their legislators to Delmar
38:37or if the New York folks have ever gotten
38:39their folks to Saratoga,
38:41but I think it's an opportunity for them to teach,
38:46if you will.
38:47Adam, thank you so much for coming on.
38:49Thank you for the work you're doing,
38:50especially in the Kentucky legislature.
38:52I'm sure horse players across the country,
38:54especially Kentucky, appreciate it.
38:56Good luck with the bill.
38:57My pleasure.
38:58Thanks for having me.
38:59Thanks Adam.
38:59Thanks Adam.
39:00The Green Group guest of the week
39:02is sponsored by the Green Group,
39:03an accounting, tax consulting, and advisory firm
39:05specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
39:07As this week's Green Group guest of the week,
39:09Representative Adam Koenig
39:10will receive a free one-hour tax consultation.
39:13Learn more at greenco.com.
39:15We'll be right back after this message
39:17from the Green Group.
39:18Why do the most successful owners, breeders,
39:20and horsemen select the Green Group
39:21as their tax advisor?
39:22We simply save them money
39:24and know how to make them more successful.
39:25Over the past 40 years,
39:26founder Leonard Green has owned and bred
39:28some of the best race horses
39:30in the history of the sport.
39:31His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge,
39:33combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies,
39:35has produced positive results for his clientele
39:38and has made the Green Group
39:39the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the business.
39:41For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
39:43contact us at 732-634-5100
39:47or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
39:50The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
39:54With some of the fullest fields in the country
39:56and quality racing year-round,
39:59there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
40:01of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
40:05Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high
40:08as is average purse per race,
40:10outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
40:14Kentucky breds.
40:15Breed them.
40:16Raise them.
40:18Race them.
40:19We all win.
40:24The TDN Writers Room is brought to you
40:25by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders
40:27and Kentucky Breds.
40:28Kentucky Thoroughbred Development Fund,
40:30which we heard Representative Koenig talk about earlier,
40:33is a unique program to benefit owners
40:34and their Kentucky-sired, Kentucky-fold runners.
40:37Its aim is to upgrade the overall quality of racing
40:39in the Commonwealth of Kentucky,
40:41which is a high bar, but always worth striving for.
40:43The Clips Award nominations were announced this week.
40:45Not surprising to learn that 19 of the 30 horses
40:48up for championship honors are Kentucky breds,
40:51which is 63%.
40:52Those include all three of the horses up
40:54for champion two-year-old Philly,
40:55all three of those eligible for female sprinter,
40:57along with two-year-old Colts,
40:59Corniche and Jack Christopher,
41:00and three-year-old males of Central Quality,
41:02and Life is Good.
41:03So probably going to be nearly a clean sweep
41:05for the Kentucky breds at the upcoming Eclipse Awards.
41:09So we can do a topic on,
41:10we can do a segment on Flightline every single week.
41:13We almost did one last week.
41:14We did one the week before.
41:15This week, there was a little bit of news that came out.
41:18You know, John Sadler is starting to plot out a course
41:21and a strategy and a campaign for this year for Flightline,
41:24if you can call it that.
41:26So reportedly, he's going to run four times this year.
41:29He's in training right now.
41:31He's going to come back to regular workouts,
41:33I think, in the next couple of weeks.
41:35Sadler's looking for a spot for him in March,
41:37with the main goal in the first half of the year
41:39being the Met Mile,
41:40which is obviously a logical spot.
41:43You know, it's a tough thing
41:45because he's such a valuable horse.
41:47I could get the economics of it.
41:49But I said this when we talked about him
41:50for the first time.
41:51We were kind of speculating.
41:53Who was it that said he's going to run seven
41:54or eight more times?
41:55John said that, Bill?
41:57No way, dude.
41:59Over and under should be four and a half.
42:00It looks like it'll be under that.
42:02So I get it.
42:02I get, like, why you wouldn't want to risk him,
42:05you know, more than you have to.
42:06There's only so many prestigious races
42:08you can run one horse in.
42:10But it could be more than four.
42:12And he's the kind of horse that I think is so special
42:15and so potential, so generational.
42:17And just, you know, who's the last horse we saw
42:20that had this kind of talent?
42:21For me, it's Go Sapper.
42:23You know, Go Sapper didn't run a lot either.
42:24I think that was more because he had some physical issues.
42:27Flightline, as far as I know, is sound right now.
42:29And I just don't agree with not running a sound horse
42:33who can actually put asses in the seats
42:36and get people's eyeballs on racing
42:38and get people engaged and passionate about a horse.
42:41I just, it drives me a little crazy
42:44how much the money and the breeding money
42:47and the stallion money controls the industry.
42:49Because, you know, if it wasn't such a big deal
42:52to get these horses to stud,
42:53I think you would see Flightline a lot more
42:55than four times this year.
42:56So that part is a little frustrating,
42:58but I guess we're just going to have to savor him
42:59when he gets on the track.
43:00What do you guys think?
43:01Yeah, Joe, I mean, I'm right on board.
43:04We're on the same page.
43:05And, you know, John said seven or eight.
43:07Well, you know, he should run nine or 10 times this year.
43:10Even seven or eight, you know, is nothing
43:13and is nothing compared to what horses did,
43:15you know, not even just in the 1950s,
43:17but, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago.
43:19So it's going to be a prep for the Met Mile,
43:22put him back in bubble wrap,
43:23a prep for the Breeders' Cup Classic,
43:25which would, he said, would either be
43:26the Pacific Classic or the Whitney.
43:28I'm guessing that he's going to come back
43:30in the San Carlos because I don't think
43:32you'd want to run, which is a seven for long race.
43:34I don't think you'd want to run beyond a mile,
43:37then come back and run a mile in the Met Mile.
43:41You know, look, I've been yelling and screaming
43:43about this as much as anybody and for the longest time.
43:46And it's terrible.
43:47It's absolutely terrible.
43:49But I get it.
43:50I mean, John Sadler's job is not to win race A, B, C, D,
43:56or to make sure that there's an extra 10,000 people
43:59in the stands when he runs in the Whitney
44:03at Saratoga or something like that.
44:05It is to make the horse as valuable as possible as a sire.
44:10And he's taking that job seriously.
44:13And he obviously thinks this is the way to do it.
44:16And unfortunately, he's probably not wrong.
44:18You don't want to get the horse beat.
44:20You want to pick all the right spots,
44:21give him as much time in between.
44:23So I get it.
44:24If I owned him, maybe I would do that, too.
44:26I don't know, despite it would be kind of hypocritical
44:28after all the things I've said over the years.
44:30But I get it.
44:31But someday we all need to sit down and get in a room
44:34and get with all the racing leaders.
44:36Say, how are we going to put a stop to this sort of thing?
44:38Even a $20 million purse in Saudi Arabia
44:42is not enough to entice him to run in that race.
44:45$20 million.
44:46Nope, can't do that.
44:47Not going to run for $20 million.
44:49We'll see four more times and goodbye.
44:52So it's what it is.
44:54It's kind of sad.
44:55But it is the state of things.
44:58And I don't know what anybody can do about it.
45:01We've talked about it so often over the years.
45:03I voted for him for champion sprinter.
45:05I mean, he's an amazing horse.
45:06I thought his Malibu was just unbelievable.
45:09You mentioned Ghostzapper.
45:11I had a conversation in attack room at Churchill Downs
45:14more than 20 years ago with Bobby Frankel,
45:16who told me that he borrowed the idea from Charlie Whittingham
45:19that if you run horses frequently, top horses, right,
45:24you'll get an A-level performance.
45:27And if you give them extra time between races,
45:29and sometimes a lot of extra time,
45:30you can turn that A into an A-plus.
45:33And that was Bobby Frankel's mantra.
45:34It's been Todd Pletcher's mantra.
45:37It's now standard operating procedure
45:39for trainers around the country.
45:40And there's another aspect to this as well.
45:43Trainers are loathe to admit it
45:45because so many of them train for breeders.
45:48But almost all of them, to a person,
45:50believe that the thoroughbred is inherently less robust nowadays
45:56than the thoroughbreds of old.
45:57And in particular, they believe that horses
45:59that are incredibly fast,
46:02and Frankel told me this about Ghostzapper as well,
46:05are harder on themselves physically
46:08than horses that aren't that fast, right?
46:11So with Flightline in particular, he's so incredibly fast.
46:14He's already had one issue.
46:16When he broke his maiden at Santa Anita,
46:19he came out of that race with a foot abscess.
46:21And I think Sadler is concerned
46:24that if he runs him more often than that,
46:26that he's so hard on himself
46:27because he's so freaking fast
46:31that it's going to make it difficult
46:32to get even those four races out of him.
46:35Hopefully, we get to see him run those four races
46:38and he doesn't wind up on the shelf.
46:40But if we just get four, then I think you're right, Joe.
46:43We're just going to have to enjoy a generational talent
46:46because he's an incredible horse.
46:48Yeah, he's amazing.
46:49And I get what you're saying,
46:51but just watching him run, he seems very easygoing.
46:54He seems like a very easy strider,
46:55but obviously the internal mechanisms of the horse
46:58could be different than what we're seeing on the racetrack.
47:00You know, I think it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy
47:03where you run horses less frequently,
47:04you baby them more,
47:06they do become a little less robust over time,
47:08whether or not they actually, you know,
47:10were meant to run that infrequently.
47:12I think it just, it becomes this thing
47:14where it becomes accepted conventional knowledge
47:17and conventional strategy that you then perpetuate
47:21not only the idea that thoroughbreds are weaker
47:24and less robust than before,
47:27but you kind of can contribute to that as well
47:29because you take them off the track
47:31for the slightest little thing.
47:32And, you know, it's unfortunate that, you know,
47:38I know when we would say too many positive things
47:40about Ahmed Zayat these days,
47:42but I thought, you know,
47:44American Pharoah's campaign as a three-year-old
47:47kind of should have been the template
47:48for what you should do with a horse
47:50who is that popular and that good.
47:52Now, Flightline's popularity
47:53is not going to reach American Pharoah's level
47:55because he didn't have those,
47:57he doesn't run those breakthrough popular races
47:59like the Derby and the Belmont and the Preakness,
48:01but as far as for racing fans,
48:03I feel like he's almost as popular as American Pharoah.
48:06And, you know, as long as he's sound
48:08and is, you know, training regularly,
48:11I don't see why you shouldn't feel
48:13at least a little bit, a little bit of compulsion
48:17to bring him out and to showcase him to the racing world.
48:20But, you know, like Bill says,
48:21we get the economics of it.
48:23We're not naive.
48:24We get why, you know,
48:25he's only going to run a couple of times this year
48:26and we'll look forward to him whenever he does run.
48:29But, you know, it just, it sucks.
48:31It sucks to feel like no matter how good of a horse
48:34we get to see,
48:35we're never going to get to see that kind of full campaign
48:37from a superstar horse anymore.
48:39And, you know, that's just the way of the world now
48:42in racing, unfortunately.
48:44Tough to segue from that into this,
48:46but there was some news this week
48:48or last week on the front of
48:51Belmont and Saratoga renovations.
48:52We heard about some of this last year.
48:54We talked to David O'Rourke
48:55when we were up at Saratoga for our 100th show
48:58about potential changes coming to the Naira tracks.
49:01Last Friday, TD Thornton reported in the TDN
49:04that the construction of vehicle
49:06and pedestrian tunnels that cut underneath
49:08all three racing services at Belmont
49:11could necessitate running the 22 autumn meeting
49:14at Aqueduct instead of Belmont.
49:16We've heard about this tunnel
49:17that they're building for a while.
49:19It's part of a larger project
49:21to winterize Belmont Park.
49:24I think they're also going to put in a synthetic track
49:26eventually at Belmont,
49:27which I think is the way of the future.
49:29You know, we saw, we've seen Gulfstream
49:31put in the Tapita track this past year.
49:34It really, I think, has been a success.
49:36The turf races when they come off
49:39still mainly stay together.
49:40It's been decent racing, honestly.
49:43It hasn't just been a place for cheap horses,
49:45but Belmont's going to get in on that
49:47and Naira's going to get in on that
49:48and I think is going to have a better chance
49:50to compete in the winter against the Gulfstreams
49:53and the fairgrounds and the Tampas of the world
49:55if they winterize Belmont Park.
49:57I think it makes all the sense in the world.
49:59The other news in this story was that
50:01they're going to construct a one-mile chute
50:04at Saratoga, which is interesting
50:06because at this point they can't run any dirt races
50:09between seven furlongs and a mile and an eighth.
50:12So that's been a little bit of a bugaboo,
50:13especially when you have races
50:14that are a mile and a sixteenth come off the turf.
50:17They usually run them at a mile and an eighth,
50:19which is very hard to get a bunch of turf horses
50:21to run a mile and an eighth on dirt,
50:23especially over a really tiring track,
50:25which Saratoga is.
50:26So I think that that'll help field size as well.
50:29And overall, it's just great to see Naira
50:31taking these proactive steps
50:32to try to improve the racing product,
50:34to try to make it a better year-round racing product.
50:37You know, it might end in the demise
50:39of my beloved Aqueduct, and that'll be a shame
50:41because not many people love Aqueduct, but I do.
50:44But nevertheless, I think it makes sense
50:46to make Naira competitive all year round
50:49and to keep field size big.
50:51As we talked about this with the handle numbers,
50:54handle numbers were so positive.
50:55The real negative was the continuing decline
50:58in field size.
50:59I think we're down to like 7.3,
51:01the average field size in America.
51:02So I think this is designed to at least help that
51:06at the Naira tracks.
51:07I wonder if Bill or Randy have any thoughts about that.
51:10Yeah, Joe, I mean, it's not just about tomorrow
51:13or a year from now or two years from now.
51:15You know, we're getting in drips and drabs
51:17a better look and feel for where
51:20the New York Racing Association intends to take things.
51:22And yes, your Aqueduct is done.
51:25It might be five years now or 10 years now.
51:29But if you think about it, you know,
51:31why you love Aqueduct so much
51:32is a conversation for another day.
51:35But the two tracks are eight miles apart.
51:38It doesn't make any sense to have two right now.
51:41And I'm sure Resorts World would pay a fortune
51:44for the rest of that track to build even more casinos
51:48and have more slot machines, yada, yada, yada.
51:50But, you know, again, whether it's five years now
51:52or 10 years from now, I think we're going to see
51:54Belmont run all year except when Saratoga is running.
51:58For the winter, they need a track conducive to doing that.
52:01That would be the synthetic surface.
52:03And then the other issue is, you know,
52:05what about the building?
52:06You know, they haven't really said
52:09precisely what they're going to do,
52:10but there's going to have to be some changes.
52:12And the possibilities are you take the existing building
52:16and, you know, do a lot of renovations
52:18or you just tear the thing down and start all over again.
52:21I mean, you only need that building one day a year
52:23for the Belmont's sakes.
52:24And you may not even need it that big
52:25unless a horse is going for the Triple Crown.
52:27So I think the pedestrian tunnel into the infield,
52:31that's a place they can put people on Belmont stakes day
52:33with tents and everything for the infield
52:35if they do build a smaller track,
52:38which is a smaller grandstand.
52:40And then the other question,
52:41will they keep the mile and a half
52:44circumference of Belmont Park?
52:46I think by and large,
52:49they lose out by having a mile and a half track.
52:51I think a mile and a would make a lot more sense.
52:54But are they going to do that?
52:55We don't really know.
52:56So, you know, it's very interesting
52:57where this is all headed,
52:59but, you know, it's clear there's no timeframe on this,
53:02but, you know, things are finally heating up
53:04when they say that they might run the Belmont meet
53:06in 2022 at Aqueduct,
53:08then we know things are starting to change.
53:11And I think, you know, when it's all said and done,
53:13we'll look back at this and say
53:13they were changes for the better.
53:15And as far as the one mile shoot at Saratoga,
53:19Joe, I guess you're saying I can take all of my trainer stats,
53:22seven furlongs to a mile and an eighth
53:24and just throw them out the window, right?
53:26I won't need those anymore.
53:29Yeah, I wonder why they, you know,
53:31it seems like they run the mile and a 16th races
53:33at a mile and an eighth on the dirt
53:35when they're off the turf for no reason,
53:37because when it's two-year-olds,
53:39they take it back to seven furlongs.
53:41Why couldn't you just run those races at seven furlongs
53:43instead of a mile and a 16th?
53:44Anyway, that was a quirk of Saratoga that's going away.
53:47And I think it makes more sense for a variety of racing
53:50and for field size as well.
53:51So shout out to Naira.
53:52I think that they're doing a lot of good things
53:54on these fronts, on renovation,
53:56Belmont, on Aqueduct, and Saratoga.
53:58And Bill, I just like Aqueduct
53:59because it was the first track I went to
54:01and I can get there by subway,
54:03which I like as a born and bred Brooklynite.
54:05I don't have to go on the LIRR.
54:07I don't have to get in a car.
54:09I can just hop on the A train and I'm there in 20 minutes.
54:12It's a foreign concept to the central New Jersey
54:17denizens of the TDN.
54:19But yeah, that's why I like it.
54:21I never had that issue at Oaklawn Park either, by the way.
54:24Is there a subway right to Oaklawn?
54:27Not quite.
54:29The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
54:32Joining a West Point Thoroughbreds partnership
54:33can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie
54:36among people surrounding high-class horses
54:38and stakes action for a fraction of the cost
54:40of trying to do it on your own.
54:41Learn more at westpointtb.com.
54:44And this week, Flightline was nominated
54:45for the Eclipse Award for Champion Sprinter.
54:48It was a dominating campaign,
54:49even though he only ran three times.
54:51We talked about John Sadler pointing him to a race
54:53in March or April before taking aim at the Met Mile.
54:56Randy mentioned something interesting
54:57in the previous segment when we talked about him,
54:59that he voted for him for Eclipse Champion Sprinter.
55:02I'm guessing you hadn't voted for a horse like that
55:04who would only run three times before,
55:06but what was your reasoning?
55:08I can't remember, Joe.
55:09I can't remember voting for a horse
55:11with such a limited campaign for an Eclipse Award.
55:14But when you look at the competition,
55:16I mean, Aloha West Breeders' Cup Sprint would be,
55:18I guess, the most logical choice conventionally,
55:22what you would normally do.
55:24But I didn't think the Breeders' Cup Sprint
55:26was an especially strong race at all.
55:29Dr. Schiavo came back and didn't run very well.
55:32So, I mean, he's great.
55:34Jackie's Warrior?
55:34What's that?
55:35Jackie's Warrior?
55:37Jackie's Warrior, I put second.
55:38And to me, it came down between Flightline
55:41and Jackie's Warrior.
55:41But I thought Flightline's race in the Malibu
55:44was just so off the charts,
55:46just even better than some of Jackie's Warrior's best races.
55:51So despite the fact that he had a very limited campaign,
55:55I chose Brilliance,
55:57what I thought was the most brilliant performance of the year,
56:00maybe the two most brilliant performances of the year, actually.
56:03And then I put Flightline number one on my ballot.
56:06I don't expect him to win, though.
56:08No, but I don't think you're going to be alone on that.
56:10I think he's going to get definitely a decent amount
56:12of first place votes.
56:13So how much does it cost to own a racehorse
56:15like Flightline with West Point?
56:17Costs less than you might think.
56:18Download the free report on westpointtv.com.
56:21You can learn.
56:23West Point horses have now earned over $60 million in purses
56:26and won close to a thousand races.
56:28And their black and gold fund for racehorse retirement
56:31provides security for their runners
56:33when their racing careers are over.
56:34So shout out to West Point.
56:35They do a lot of great things
56:37and always doing right by the horses as well.
56:39We'll be right back after this message
56:40from West Point Thoroughbreds.
56:42All the thrills.
56:46Fraction of the bills.
56:51Experience the power of the partnership.
56:57Change your life, make new friends,
56:59and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
57:04West Point Thoroughbreds,
57:05the gold standard in racing partnerships.
57:08Visit westpointtv.com.
57:13Being a small family business,
57:14I guess we're part of a dying breed.
57:16We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
57:19We know it's a huge responsibility.
57:21We're always with your horse, every step of the way.
57:25When it comes to being at the sales ground,
57:26showing your horses, we are with your horse.
57:29Just driving up and down the road every day.
57:31There's not a time that I don't look out
57:32and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal,
57:35the people that come to invest in the game.
57:37I want to see as many people enjoy this sport
57:39as they possibly can
57:40because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
57:45The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
57:47If you think that 50 years combined experience
57:49in the horse business could benefit your program,
57:51give Tommy or Wendy a call.
57:53They personally advise on each horse
57:55as if they were their own catalog
57:56for the Facing Tipton February sales.
57:58Now out, Legacy Bloodstock will offer a consignment
58:01of six horses, including a two-year-old filly
58:02by Bodimeister, selling as a racing prospect,
58:05short yelling by Summerfront
58:06from the family of Lucayan Prince,
58:08and a Street Scents Colt
58:09from the family of grade one winner Flat Fleet Feet.
58:12Got that one out.
58:14Visit LegacyBloodstockLLC.com to find out more.
58:18All right, so that's going to do it for this week's edition
58:20of the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
58:22A reminder that the Keeneland Spring Meet,
58:24the schedule is out right now.
58:25It starts April 8th and runs through April 29th.
58:28I want to thank Bill Finley,
58:29our very special guest co-host, Randy Moss,
58:32our producer, Patty Wolf,
58:33our associate producer, Katie Petruniak,
58:35and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aliyah LaRocca,
58:38and Nathan Wilkinson.
58:39Thank you all so much for watching.
58:41I won't see you next week,
58:42but Bill and someone, maybe another guest co-host,
58:45we'll see you next week.
58:46Thanks for watching.