thoroughbreddailynews
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Transcript
00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning.
00:00:24It is 936, Wednesday, March 30th.
00:00:28This is the TDN Writer's Room, presented by Keeneland.
00:00:30My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:31I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News, and episode two of Better Things
00:00:36is out right now with Randy Moss.
00:00:37Go check it out.
00:00:39Hi, I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:42This is where I feel I have to come up with a really creative joke about Will Smith and
00:00:46Chris Rock, and it should be low-hanging fruit.
00:00:48I can't do it, John.
00:00:49Oh, Bill Finley, you've phoned it in the past couple of weeks, Jonathan Green, General Manager
00:00:55of DJ Stable.
00:00:56I'm like, guys, I have one of the most important races coming up on Saturday.
00:01:00I signed up for a 5K, and I'm going to run it, and I breezed in front of the state vet,
00:01:06and I'm okay, and I have no performance-enhancing drugs, God knows that, and I'm hoping to finish
00:01:11and run like a mid-70 buyer number is what I'm going for.
00:01:16And then, Joe Bianca, once I do that, I'm calling you and demanding that I get to be
00:01:21a rising star.
00:01:22You've probably got a better case of some of the horses you asked me about.
00:01:31It's not on synthetic.
00:01:32The race is not on synthetic, so I know that immediately, and it's not against New York
00:01:35Reds or anything like that.
00:01:37Yes, it's the run of Palooza at Asbury Park on Saturday, so please have everyone give
00:01:44their good wishes and positive thoughts for Saturday morning.
00:01:48I'll be out there at 8 a.m. and hopefully be done by 8.30, but if not, they told me
00:01:55if you don't finish within three hours, you don't get your T-shirt, so.
00:01:58Shoot it out of a cannon at you?
00:02:00Shoot it out of a cannon, exactly.
00:02:03The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:02:05Mark your calendars for the April Horses of Racing Age sale after the races on closing
00:02:10day of the spring meet, which is Friday, April 29th.
00:02:13Entry deadline for the print catalog is April 1st, that's this Friday.
00:02:17No supplements will be accepted until sale date.
00:02:20We are only a week and two days away from the opening day of the Keeneland spring meet
00:02:25and less than four weeks away from when the three of us will be down there shooting a
00:02:30show at Keeneland.
00:02:32Just can't wait.
00:02:33Hopefully, by then, Bill will have a good intro.
00:02:37You got all month.
00:02:38You got all month to think away.
00:02:42We had two major locales of racing over the weekend, one in New Orleans, one overseas
00:02:47in Dubai.
00:02:48We'll get to both of them.
00:02:49We had a big day at fairgrounds, highlighted by Epicenter, Olympiad, Echo Zulu, even two
00:02:56Emmys had a nice little win in the Muniz Memorial Classic, a lot of good performances.
00:03:01What stood out to you guys?
00:03:03Well, first of all, let's take a look at Dubai, and the story there was more who lost than
00:03:09who won.
00:03:11And, you know, Country Grammar is a very nice horse.
00:03:13I think he's a little bit better than everybody expected.
00:03:16Obviously, Bob Baffert from many, many time zones away in California had to have a huge
00:03:20smile on his face.
00:03:21Not only did he win the race, but he beat the horse that was taken away from him in
00:03:26Life is Good.
00:03:27But, you know, it's hard not to be disappointed in Life is Good, guys.
00:03:32You know, again, you know, hype, the horses have a hard time living up to the hype.
00:03:36You know, we're part of that.
00:03:37We say how great these horses are.
00:03:39I certainly was saying all those things.
00:03:41He didn't, you know, run a very good race.
00:03:45He had things his own way on the lead, and then in the last sixteenth of a mile, he just
00:03:48stopped.
00:03:49You know, the obvious conclusion here is that a mile and a quarter is beyond his range.
00:03:54Now, there's nothing wrong with being a great miler.
00:03:56There's nothing wrong with being, you know, able to win a mile and eighth.
00:04:00But, you know, if you want to win the Breeders' Cup Classic, if you want to be, you know,
00:04:03the top contender for Horse of the Year, you need to go a mile and a quarter.
00:04:07So, you know, that doesn't mean he won't rebound.
00:04:09Maybe we'll see him win something like the Whitney.
00:04:11Maybe he will win the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:04:13But I think he took a step backwards, and, you know, I'm sure we want to talk a lot about
00:04:17New Orleans and what happened there.
00:04:19At the center, very good horse.
00:04:20He really looks like he's got a chance to give Steve Asmussen his first Kentucky Derby
00:04:25winner, and maybe we want to circle back to it.
00:04:27But I was not impressed by Echo Zulu, who ran a career-low 88 fire, winning her race
00:04:34to Fairgrounds Oaks.
00:04:37You know, Bill, Echo Zulu, you know, that was a race that we had highlighted in last
00:04:42week's show and talked about the fact that she was probably going to need one, you know,
00:04:46coming off a layoff.
00:04:47And, yeah, she just nosed out Hidden Connection, who, by the way, we did mention specifically
00:04:52on last week's show as the horse, you know, had a sneaky good race, sneaky good fourth
00:04:57last time out down in New Orleans in the Rachel Alexandra.
00:05:01I think you have to give Echo Zulu, you know, kind of a pass, and that sounds silly because
00:05:06she won.
00:05:07But I think that was really the whole idea of running her there in this race was specifically
00:05:13as, you know, the springboard for the Oaks.
00:05:16And I think mission accomplished.
00:05:17They knocked off the rust.
00:05:18They kept her undefeated.
00:05:21And from the one hole, they had to send her, you know, and I don't know if that's always
00:05:24going to be her style, you know, coming into the Oaks.
00:05:27I know she likes to be on or near the lead.
00:05:30But I think you almost have to say she did what she needed to do.
00:05:33She won the race.
00:05:34She's still undefeated.
00:05:36And obviously, she's still one of the top contenders for the Oaks.
00:05:39So, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't like an eye opening, you know, return to racing.
00:05:46But it checked the boxes.
00:05:47She did what she needed to do at the center.
00:05:49I thought you were going to talk a little bit more about not only because the one or
00:05:52two buyer, but also, Bill, because you picked him in the in the contest.
00:05:56So I thought that was a good opportunity for you to, you know, pat yourself on the
00:05:59back.
00:06:00Actually, we had all the first four horses all earned points on our contest.
00:06:05So kudos to Bill and to Sue and to Al for having Zozos, who ran second, as well as Rattle
00:06:12and Roll, who ran fourth.
00:06:14You know, so the contest is getting, you know, really tight.
00:06:18More importantly, who cares about, you know, these derby preps?
00:06:21It's the contest that's the important thing.
00:06:23And I'm going to talk a little bit about Life is Good also, because you're right.
00:06:26You know, we put these horses on pedestals because we're so excited when they show this
00:06:30kind of talent.
00:06:31And Life is Good is still a really, really outstanding horse.
00:06:34We talked about, you know, pre-show, we talked about the fact that a mile and a quarter may
00:06:38have just been too far for him.
00:06:40And between the mile and a quarter and also the distance he had to travel to get there,
00:06:43to get to, you know, to the races, may just have been a little bit too much.
00:06:48Because really, if it wasn't for like the last 40 or 50 yards of the race, he would
00:06:52have been the winner.
00:06:53And we still would have been talking about this great, you know, potential with him and
00:06:58Flightline down the road, as far as, you know, like the Ollie Frazier of all the handicapped
00:07:04horses.
00:07:05Can we talk a little bit about the forgotten horse?
00:07:08And that's Hot Rod Charlie.
00:07:09I mean, all he does every single time is just he just hits the board.
00:07:13He just comes in with his running shoes on almost every race.
00:07:16And again, you know, had to go overseas, won the prep and, you know, looked good in this
00:07:21race as well.
00:07:22So, you know, kudos to that California horse.
00:07:25And the last race that I'll mention, because I know we're talking about all the hotspots
00:07:29in racing.
00:07:30We got to talk about the Sunland Park Derby and, you know, slow down Andy, who, you know,
00:07:35won the race and with blinkers on for the first time and finally, finally got me my
00:07:4150 pointer for the contest.
00:07:42I was going to say, there's no way John would be bringing up the Sunland Derby if it wasn't
00:07:45a horse he picked.
00:07:46If it wasn't a horse I picked or if we weren't running in it, exactly.
00:07:49Otherwise, you know, why?
00:07:50Yeah.
00:07:52It's not like it's a fun or park derby.
00:07:53That's true.
00:07:54Nothing is.
00:07:55Well, I, you know, I just got a lot of a lot of follow ups from that.
00:07:58I disagree with you guys on Echo Zulu, man.
00:08:01As someone who kind of thought she was a little fake as a two year old because she just got
00:08:06in these races where she got loose on the lead and, you know, especially in the Breeders'
00:08:10Cup Classic, that only being a six horse field, I thought that was relatively speaking a pretty
00:08:14pathetic field for, you know, a million dollar race.
00:08:18And the other two horses, the only other two horses on paper that could beat her didn't
00:08:21get out of the gate.
00:08:22So I wasn't that impressed with that.
00:08:23I thought she was kind of a default champion.
00:08:25I was more impressed with this race because, like you said, John, she was off the layoff
00:08:30and she actually got eyeballed in the stretch and it looked for a long time like Hidden
00:08:33Connection was going to go by her and she just would not let her by.
00:08:37So, you know me, I like to see brilliance, but I also like to see heart when it comes
00:08:42to horses like that.
00:08:43So actually, I was more I was in a way more impressed with that race than anything she
00:08:47did as a two year old.
00:08:48You know, am I am I running to bet her at seven to five in the Kentucky Oaks?
00:08:52No, but I wasn't going to do that anyway.
00:08:54You know, at least now, you know, she showed some guts to where if you're if she gets
00:08:59eyeballed at the eighth pole on the Oaks, you don't think, OK, well, this is her first
00:09:03test, you know, and who knows how it's going to go.
00:09:05As for Life is Good, that was one of those races where I missed it live.
00:09:08I saw the result and I went back and watched the replay and I was like, how did this horse
00:09:12lose this race? I was like, why did the race go on and on and on and on?
00:09:16And he's still clear on the lead.
00:09:18And then just like John said, the last 40 or 70 yards, he gave it up.
00:09:22And, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily say he can't go in a mile and a
00:09:26quarter just because of that.
00:09:27But but yeah, it definitely leaves some questions as to whether or not he's going to
00:09:32be, you know, that top class, a contender of someone else is going to end up beating
00:09:36him at a mile and a quarter, because I imagine that's where they're going to go.
00:09:39He's already won the dirt mile.
00:09:40You know, like you said, you might win the Whitney.
00:09:43I can't imagine that they're going to end up cutting him back for good.
00:09:46They probably will for the mile if that's what's next for him.
00:09:49But, you know, like I said, I thought Bill would say a little bit more about epicenter.
00:09:54Like John said, I thought that that was a breakthrough performance for him, not only
00:09:59because he got a one or two buyer and won really stylishly, but because he showed that
00:10:03rating ability that he hadn't necessarily shown in the last couple of preps.
00:10:08And I think that that's so huge because as we've talked about it, one of the running
00:10:11themes on his derby trail is that there are so many front running winners in these
00:10:15three year old races and you're going to need to probably sit a little bit off the
00:10:19pace in the derby.
00:10:20Like I don't think anybody's going wire to wire in this year's derby like we saw last
00:10:24year. And I thought that that was really impressive the way he was able to switch off
00:10:27as a great ride, typically great ride by Joel Rosario, angled out the top of the stretch
00:10:32and he looked like he had them any time he wanted in the stretch.
00:10:35So I thought that that was super, super impressive.
00:10:37And, you know, again, we don't has anybody in this three year old class run off the
00:10:42charts to where you're like, wow, that is definitely the worst to beat.
00:10:45The only race I can think of like that is Messier.
00:10:47We're going to see him.
00:10:48That's another story. Bob Baffert's horse is starting to get switched out of his barn
00:10:52going to Tim Yachteen.
00:10:54He's the only one in the Bob Lewis that I thought really ran a race that really made
00:10:59your eyes pop out of your head at the center.
00:11:01I thought that was the second best race of the three year old season after that.
00:11:05So I was I was definitely very impressed by him.
00:11:08And we got the Arkansas Derby coming up this weekend.
00:11:11We're going to get to that at the Florida Derby coming up.
00:11:14So the rubber is really going to meet the road here in the next two weeks as we get
00:11:17those final Derby preps in.
00:11:19And, you know, I think I'm excited.
00:11:21I think it's going to be a really big, obviously a big field, but even matched field
00:11:25in the Derby. And I think I think it's going to serve Epicenter well that he was able to
00:11:30rate off of the pace.
00:11:31I think that's going to that's going to serve him well and in Louisville for sure.
00:11:36And guys, we missed one, we missed an important race, and that's Olympia.
00:11:40And we're going to talk to you about about about the horse later on.
00:11:43But that was a really impressive race.
00:11:45You know, to me, any time a spikes town can go long, that means that the horse really
00:11:50has talent because he's such a prolific sire of sprinters.
00:11:55And the fact that this horse won going nine furlongs, which isn't easy, and it wasn't
00:11:59like, you know, he went out there and kind of slowed down the pace and everything.
00:12:02I mean, he was sitting off it and he was sitting just off it and went by horses down
00:12:06the stretch. And I know he was the even money favorite, but he ran like he ran
00:12:09like he was supposed to.
00:12:11And that's a horse that, you know, has taken a little while to kind of fulfill his
00:12:14destiny. But he's he's going to be a horse that we're going to be talking about as
00:12:17well down the line. Trust me.
00:12:19Like, I yeah, I just talked to Jamie about Olympia and so he's like out of my mind
00:12:24now. But yeah, no, he's you know, you know, my feelings on him.
00:12:27He's only running like one or two, one or three buyers, you know, relatively speaking,
00:12:31in the handicapped division, that's probably not going to win the Breeders Cup.
00:12:33But I don't care, honestly, like the way he finishes those races is what's important
00:12:38to me. And he's kind of at the mercy of the pace sometimes, you know, if he's if
00:12:42he's going to go slow, he can only accelerate so much and stop the clock in such a
00:12:46fast time. But, you know, he's he's that guy, I think, that's going to kind of creep
00:12:51up on, you know, flight line doesn't make it to the classic or, you know, life is
00:12:56good, ends up 10 for long, 10 for long as being a little too far for him.
00:12:59I think he's the sneaky horse that if I could get a little bit of a future bet down
00:13:04on him to win the classic, I would do it because, yeah, he looks really good.
00:13:07And again, just like Epicenter, he had those horses any time he wanted, obviously
00:13:11was not the greatest field in the world, but he was just that was a no doubt when
00:13:16he continues to impress.
00:13:18The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:13:20Big weekend for Keeneland September grads with Country Grammar winning the Dubai
00:13:24World Cup. I felt we only talked about life is good.
00:13:26Country Grammar did win the race and is obviously turned into a very nice, legitimate
00:13:31grade one horse.
00:13:33Epicenter in the Louisiana Derby, also Keeneland September grad, Olympiad in the New
00:13:37Orleans Classic and Echo Zoo in the Fairgrounds Oak.
00:13:40So those are basically the main four races over the weekend swept by Keeneland
00:13:44September grads. We're just over a week away, as I mentioned in the open from the
00:13:48Keeneland Spring Meet opening next Friday, April 8, a total of 10 stakes where the
00:13:53combined $4.55 million are scheduled over the first three days.
00:13:58Opening weekend kicks off with the Central Bank Ashland, John's favorite race on
00:14:02Friday. Then Saturday has an 11 race card featuring the one million dollar Bluegrass
00:14:07as well as the grade one Madison stakes.
00:14:10Could not be more excited for that.
00:14:12John mentioned that Coinage is mentioned is nominated for the Transylvania, right?
00:14:17Yeah, he's going to run in the Transylvania.
00:14:18Actually, Joe, we have we're bringing a group of seven horses to Keeneland to run in
00:14:23the Spring Meet. And, you know, they're not all stakehorses.
00:14:27We have a couple of horses in the allowance races as well.
00:14:28So we're very excited to be able to run for a huge purses.
00:14:32We're bringing all Kentucky breads, run the huge purses at Keeneland.
00:14:37Coinage is the only one that wasn't a Kentucky bread, but he's running in the grade
00:14:40three Transylvania. But the other thing I want to mention is that we're entering three
00:14:44horses into the horse racing sale with TaylorMade.
00:14:47And, you know, Keeneland has provided just a great forum for us to sell these race
00:14:52horses. All three of them, one's an American pharaoh, one's a gunrunner and one's
00:14:56a Zophany filly.
00:14:58And all of them have hit the board in respect of maiden races.
00:15:01And, you know, we're looking forward to other people taking them and having them
00:15:06blossom in their programs.
00:15:08One's actually a homebred of ours.
00:15:10So we're looking forward to not only selling at the Horses of Racing Age sale, but
00:15:14attending for our show and then hopefully, you know, walking away with some hardware
00:15:21from some of these races.
00:15:22Well, and you can do online bidding.
00:15:24So that'll be harder for me to accidentally bid $600,000 on a horse, at least
00:15:28theoretically. But yeah, I have faith in you.
00:15:32I have faith in you being able to be the underbidder at $600,000.
00:15:34And, you know, Joe, if you want, you can buy any of the three horses that we're
00:15:38putting in the sale for $400,000.
00:15:41Just lend me your checkbook.
00:15:43I'll be glad to buy one.
00:15:44Can't wait. All right, we'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:15:49With all eyes on the bluegrass this spring, there's no better way to take in the
00:15:52action than Friday, April 29th at Keeneland.
00:15:58And they're off. We get into it with hip number one.
00:16:01Good luck. Featuring a day filled with world class racing, followed by a unique sales
00:16:05experience in the evening.
00:16:07The April Horses of Racing Age sale, after the races on closing day of the spring.
00:16:15Follow the action this April to Keeneland.
00:16:18Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate to wire win in the Florida
00:16:23Derby. Champion three-year-old.
00:16:25Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
00:16:31Eleven triple digit buyers.
00:16:33Maximum Security, he smoked them in the cigar mile.
00:16:37Grade one winning four-year-old.
00:16:39Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:16:44Secure your mayor's future.
00:16:46Maximum Security.
00:16:49The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:16:51Coolmore Sires made headlines at the Fasig-Tipton Gulfstream Sale Breeze Show on
00:16:55Monday. That sale is later today.
00:16:57Cult by Uncle Mo out of a half-sister to Tap It, put in the fastest furlong work in the
00:17:01seven-year history of the Gulfstream Sale, working in nine and three-fifths.
00:17:06There's also an impressive cult by Justify out of grade one winner and producer
00:17:10Appealing Zofie, and a filly by Practical Joke who both worked in ten flat.
00:17:14The sale is today, as I mentioned, so I'm sure we'll have some big results to report
00:17:18back on next week for the stallions at Ashford.
00:17:20And American Pharoah is the sire of four graded stakes winners on Dirt in 2022.
00:17:25That's more than any other sire.
00:17:27Two of his top runners, Mereneath and As Time Goes By, just retired.
00:17:30So it'll be interesting to watch as he starts as a new part of his career as a brood
00:17:34mayor sire. Those are obviously two very well-bred fillies, especially As Time Goes
00:17:38By, who race for Coolmore.
00:17:39So we're looking forward to seeing what they produce and what American Pharoah can do
00:17:42as a brood mayor sire, because God knows he's shown what he can do as a sire.
00:17:46And it's it's a lot.
00:17:47It's a lot. Grade one winners on Dirt and Turf now.
00:17:50And he's only going to get better.
00:17:52So we had some big news yesterday.
00:17:54This happens. This happens every year around this time.
00:17:56The Jockey Club releases the data from its equine injury database, which, you know, as
00:18:01I've mentioned in the show in the past, we've talked about is such a valuable resource
00:18:04and is to me one of the best things that racing has going for it in terms of analyzing
00:18:10and figuring out breakdown data.
00:18:12And, you know, what's what works, what's more risky than other races or, you know,
00:18:17other distances.
00:18:19The overall breakdown rate was one point three nine per one thousand starters.
00:18:23That's a slight dip from last year's number, which was one point four one.
00:18:27And just for just for context, when this when the study started in 2009, it was two.
00:18:32It was two per thousand starters.
00:18:34So that's a big drop over 12, 13 years.
00:18:37You know, we'd like to see it go down more than it did this year.
00:18:41I think that's basically negligible.
00:18:43One point four one to one point three nine.
00:18:46Some of the breakout statistics are really interesting, including synthetic.
00:18:49The synthetic breakdown rate was point seven three, which is just sparkling.
00:18:53And the lowest number of any surface throughout the entire history of the study, the
00:18:59lowest before that was point nine three on synthetic tracks.
00:19:02So that's super encouraging.
00:19:03There's a lot more data to parse here and to figure out.
00:19:07But let's get some initial takeaways from Bill and John.
00:19:11Joe, we talked about this with the California numbers either last week or the week
00:19:14before. And look, you know, we wanted to keep going down and down and down.
00:19:19You know, the thing we always say, it's never going to be zero, but let's get as
00:19:22close to zero as we can possibly get.
00:19:24Yeah. The one point four one to one point three nine.
00:19:27You know, that in and of itself is not a major deal.
00:19:29But you look at the bigger picture, like you said, from 2009.
00:19:33And look, you know, we're the first ones to to dump on this industry when we think
00:19:37they're not doing things right.
00:19:39They are doing things right here.
00:19:41This number is very encouraging and we want to see it keep going down.
00:19:45The other thing that jumped off the page to me was in the breakdowns that the number
00:19:50for two year old was point nine eight.
00:19:53And that was so three year olds were one point five to an old four and older were
00:19:59I'm having trouble reading my handwriting one point three eight.
00:20:01But you hear the argument so often from animal rights people about how awful it is
00:20:07to raise two year olds.
00:20:08They're not mature enough.
00:20:09They shouldn't be racing until they're four or whatnot.
00:20:12It's cruel to run these horses.
00:20:14That's just the statistics just not only don't back that up, they totally refute
00:20:20that argument that two year old racing is not particularly dangerous or more so than
00:20:25any other kind of racing.
00:20:26And in the long run, you know, the statistics also show that horses that started as a
00:20:31two year old generally have healthier careers than horses that don't start as a
00:20:36two year old. So please, you know, people out there, PETA, whatnot, and that horse
00:20:40racing bronze guy or whatnot.
00:20:42Can we please stop with the you can't have two year old racing?
00:20:45It's just absolutely not true.
00:20:47So, you know, good job by the racing industry.
00:20:50And let's hope that when we're talking about this next year, that one point three
00:20:53nine is down to about one point two.
00:20:55And it's possible it really is.
00:20:57And kudos to the industry and also to you.
00:21:00We mentioned this before to the management teams at some of these racetracks, because
00:21:06it is a lot of money that needs to be invested into their racetracks.
00:21:11And you'd think that's the most valuable track of real estate on a course is
00:21:15obviously the racetrack itself.
00:21:18But there are racetracks, whether it's Gulfstream that is tearing up their turf
00:21:23course again, because they were concerned about the way that for safety purposes,
00:21:28amongst other reasons, they implemented and installed the PETA track, which which
00:21:33has turned out to statistically has been the best and safest racetrack that's out
00:21:38there. And then you also have other groups like Naira, where when it's a frozen
00:21:45racetrack, they'll cancel racing.
00:21:47Whereas in the past and Joe, you're a big better as well.
00:21:51They would have kind of sloshed through and pushed through and made the horses run
00:21:55those races. So I think the pendulum is swinging in the direction of safety.
00:22:00And certainly management is starting to recognize that it's important to have these
00:22:05horses alive and well and running.
00:22:11One of the other things that Bill, when you mentioned the two year olds and how
00:22:15important that is that the statistics show that two year olds in races are the safest
00:22:20horses out there.
00:22:22And that is really important.
00:22:23I think the one the one counter argument I'll make about these statistics that
00:22:29belie, I think, the overall numbers is that these are numbers the Jockey
00:22:36Club assembled based on races.
00:22:40And we have to remember is that there is a lot more out there, you know, as far as
00:22:45horses breezing in the morning, galloping in the morning on the various racetracks and
00:22:49even the two year old sales.
00:22:51And I think that until we have those numbers incorporated in these numbers as well,
00:22:57then that'll give us a really total idea of the landscape of how safe the racetracks
00:23:02are and also of these facilities.
00:23:05I was glad to see that the two year old sales companies got together and are making
00:23:10headway with regard to safety protocols and medication protocols.
00:23:15And I don't remember, and guys, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think they had a
00:23:19breakdown at the March sale and I don't think they had anything at the Miami Under
00:23:23Tax show. So it looks like that those protocols are, you know, are working again.
00:23:29I'd love to see because they are young horses.
00:23:31I'd love to see more stringent rules on that.
00:23:33It scares the bejesus out of me that we're now having all these horses breezed in nine
00:23:37and four and nine and three, especially the young horses.
00:23:41That's that's that's a topic for another another show.
00:23:44But I think overall, we have to be pleased with the way the numbers are for racing.
00:23:50And the fact that the horses, there's less horses that are dying on the racetrack
00:23:56because that's the most visual part of it, especially for people who are casual fans.
00:24:00But I think we need to incorporate all the numbers before we start patting ourselves
00:24:03in the back and saying that we figured this shit out.
00:24:06Just to piggyback off some of the points you mentioned, Bill mentioned the two year old
00:24:10race saying some people have made the claim that the decrease in breakdowns has
00:24:14something to do with the LASIX bands.
00:24:16And, you know, granted, it's only one year of data, but the drop in two year old
00:24:20fatality rate to me would suggest there's there's some truth to that, because as you
00:24:23remember, the LASIX phase out in America has started with two year old races and
00:24:28stakes races. I would be interested to see the number split out for stakes races.
00:24:32Now, obviously, those are the kind of horses you would expect the number to be below the
00:24:36median as it is because they're more expensive.
00:24:38You would think more sound horses than bottom level claimers.
00:24:41But I'd be interested to see if that number went down as well.
00:24:44And the other takeaway for me, as I said, is the synthetic fatality rate, because
00:24:47point seven three, you know, that's about as low as you can realistically get.
00:24:51There were 18 fatal breakdowns and twenty four thousand seven hundred forty two
00:24:56synthetic starts last year, which is a remarkable number.
00:24:59And to me, that makes me feel good about what Gulfstream has done with the torpedo
00:25:04surface and what Naira might do with Belmont installing a third surface.
00:25:08And I think that's the future, as I've said, you know, obviously not every track has
00:25:12the physical capacity and the facilities to do that.
00:25:14But, you know, I think that's that's the future for all of the tracks that do is to
00:25:18have a dirt track, a turf track and a synthetic track.
00:25:21So I think that that makes a lot of sense.
00:25:23And, you know, as I said in the past, when we had the synthetic revolution, the failed
00:25:27synthetic revolution, it was trying to replace dirt racing.
00:25:29And I just that was it was just kind of this ham handed one size fits all approach,
00:25:34whereas I think there is a place for synthetic racing, but not necessarily as a total
00:25:38replacement for dirt. So overall, for the numbers, ninety nine point eight six percent
00:25:43of two hundred sixty four thousand two hundred starts in American racing in twenty
00:25:47twenty one ended without a catastrophic incident.
00:25:50And all that being said, as we said, one point four one to one point three nine, not as
00:25:55big a drop as you would like to see considering where where it was trending.
00:25:58We had gone down like point one five point one five the last couple of years.
00:26:03And we'll try to we'll try to put up the numbers, too, and the data, because like I said,
00:26:07the Jockey Club does a great service to the industry, releasing this data and compiling
00:26:11and releasing this data so we can see where we need to make improvements and where we're
00:26:15doing well. So, you know, I think there's there's a lot more work to do.
00:26:19But I just think as long as that number keeps going down, we're moving in the right
00:26:22direction. I think there's a lot of people in racing that deserve credit.
00:26:27The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Lane's and Lane's and Stallion of the Week this
00:26:30week. And what a stallion of the week it is, is Tonalist, son of Tonalist Country Grammar,
00:26:35won the Dubai World Cup over the weekend.
00:26:37You should read. Chris McGrath has a great story in the TDN this week about Tonalist,
00:26:41about how he's really starting to come on as a sire.
00:26:43He was really he was he was in that star studded crop with American Pharaoh and
00:26:47Constitution, maybe got a little bit overlooked at the beginning, but now is really
00:26:50starting to come up into his own, I think, is great value.
00:26:54Country Grammar is now a three time greatest stakes winner.
00:26:56Tonalist is also sired. Grade two winner Tonalist Shape.
00:26:59Stakes winners Shamrock and Betsy Blue.
00:27:01Multiple grade one winner.
00:27:02You think he had 700 plus buyers in his career, obviously won the Belmont.
00:27:07Stands at Lane's end this year for just $10,000.
00:27:10But like I said, great value, especially for a sire who just sired a horse who won a
00:27:15$10 million plus race.
00:27:16So definitely go see Tonalist if you maybe have overlooked them in the past because of
00:27:21that. That really star studded intake crop.
00:27:23He's definitely a horse with some value.
00:27:25So we'll be right back. This message from Lane's end.
00:27:28Catalina Cruiser.
00:27:30He won seven of nine starts coast to coast with six triple digit buyers and five
00:27:36dominating graded stakes wins, including a record in the grade two True North Stakes,
00:27:42a son of leading fifth crop sire Union Rags, a $370,000 yearling with an imposing
00:27:49physical and one of the best of his generation.
00:27:53There's only one Catalina Cruiser now standing at Lane's end.
00:27:59The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting, tax
00:28:02consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:28:06With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you
00:28:10taxes. Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:28:15We are thrilled to welcome this week as a Green Group guest of the week from Ellen J.
00:28:18Foxwoods, Jamie Roth.
00:28:19Thanks so much for coming on.
00:28:21Very welcome. Excited to be on.
00:28:23Great to have you.
00:28:24Obviously, you're coming off the big win from my favorite horse in training.
00:28:27I'm the number one Olympiad, number one Olympiad fan club veteran here.
00:28:31Great win in the New Orleans Classic, coming off another big win in the mineshaft.
00:28:36He's a horse that had to take a year off from two to three, and now he's really coming
00:28:40to his own over this winter.
00:28:42Can you just speak a little bit about his development and then maybe what's next for
00:28:46him?
00:28:46So he he's always been a horse that showed tremendous ability.
00:28:53He broke his maiden at Saratoga in 2020, second time out impressively.
00:29:00It was actually against a good group of horses.
00:29:03Yeah, I can't remember each one, but Brad Cox had a cattle ripper and there was a bunch
00:29:09of other ones, maybe Highest Honor, but he was prepping for the Champagne after that.
00:29:16And, you know, unfortunately, in racing, you have minor setbacks and we like our stable
00:29:24person likes to take as much time as we can and show patience because we feel that will
00:29:30reward us in the end.
00:29:32And by twenty twenty one, he came back, had to come back at Saratoga against a really
00:29:41salty group. I think Baby Yoda freaked that day.
00:29:47Same trainer as us, but he but he ran super off the layoff and then he went straight into
00:29:54the cigar, which is, you know, it's aggressive move, but that's how much we believed in
00:30:01him. And he ran a good fourth to sneak a good fourth.
00:30:06The ride was it was a little different, I think, than we had anticipated.
00:30:11But at the end, out of nowhere, he just made a big run.
00:30:14And I think maybe we hit the board or even run second if things had panned out
00:30:19differently. But we were thrilled with that and dropped back down into an allowance.
00:30:25And, you know, from that from then on, it's it's been smooth water so far.
00:30:32And like I said, he was a beautiful, well-bred horse that always showed a ton of
00:30:38ability. And it's great not just for us, but for the racing world to see what I think he
00:30:46can become. So just a quick follow up.
00:30:48What's the plan for him in the next couple of months or so?
00:30:52Well, it sounds like that Alishiva is next, but I'm not the trainer.
00:30:57Things change quickly, but it sounds that that's Bill's plan.
00:31:02And from then on, just hoping the horse comes out well.
00:31:07That's always a fingers crossed moment after a race.
00:31:11But he's right.
00:31:12We just got his Ragazin number and it was a four plus.
00:31:16So he's trending in the right way.
00:31:19He's not he's running better numbers, but not so drastic that you have to worry about
00:31:25bouncing. But his numbers line up with top horses like Life is Good.
00:31:33I'm not saying we are that by any stretch, but we're starting to fit into a picture of
00:31:40top older horses.
00:31:41Right. I'm just so happy for the horse.
00:31:44For me, it's about him showing the racing community his ability.
00:31:52I'm happy he has a chance to do that now.
00:31:57Jamie, thanks for joining us.
00:31:58You're also having a lot of success with a horse.
00:32:00That's very interesting story in Australia by the name of Lighthouse.
00:32:03And we've seen a lot of Australian horses come to the U.S.
00:32:07and prosper. We don't see many go from the U.S.
00:32:09to Australia like this horse has become a group one winner.
00:32:13Tell us what her story is.
00:32:16It's basically I think not I think Ellen Jay is a very think out of the box operation and
00:32:25try to take advantage of new markets and maybe do things that not everyone is doing.
00:32:33And she was a good horse in the U.S.
00:32:36She ran. She won the the grade three at Kentucky Downs.
00:32:41The music, the music.
00:32:44I can't remember the race.
00:32:45All I know is we got and I don't remember saying it was the music.
00:32:50It was the Music City.
00:32:51And our trophy was a guitar.
00:32:56This is I like variety and trophies.
00:32:58So it was kind of interesting, but it's it's kind of great, too.
00:33:02But after that, again, just minor setbacks and out of the box, thinking out of the box,
00:33:11we decided to try Australia.
00:33:13And we had already had actually I don't think a lot of people realize this, but we already
00:33:18had a few mares down there, a mare named Upfront, who's a war front mare who had a ton
00:33:27of speed, but couldn't quite get the distance here.
00:33:31I mean, maybe a five for she could.
00:33:33So we know speed's important there.
00:33:37So we had brought her down there and had already had a good experience with communication.
00:33:42And we want to try something new.
00:33:45We thought she'd fit.
00:33:46She got a lot of speed and very big, strong bodied filly.
00:33:52And just I think a change in environment was also key.
00:33:56She was a little high strung here.
00:33:58And sometimes just doing something new, even going to another country can be the trick.
00:34:08And she trains at the beach and she's happy.
00:34:12She swims with dolphins.
00:34:14That's for real.
00:34:16And she's a mature, totally different horse.
00:34:21And that was really it.
00:34:23We just wanted to try something different.
00:34:24There's way more grass options there than, unfortunately, to say that in the U.S.
00:34:32And that was really it.
00:34:34And she's been great to see her excel.
00:34:38And Jamie, as a fellow owner, I've been following L&J for a long time and watching your success.
00:34:44And one of the things that I wanted to ask you has to do with your sales when you're at the sales.
00:34:52Obviously, you guys have bought horses for a lot of money.
00:34:55And more importantly, you've sold horses for a lot of money.
00:34:58When you buy a Bellamy Road filly for $800,000, that's Constellation, and then you turn around and sell her for $3.15 million.
00:35:06Are you more nervous raising your hand at $800,000 or are you more nervous when she goes in the ring in the Keeneland November sale and sells for $3 million?
00:35:14It's a good question.
00:35:16And it's an interesting question.
00:35:18At the Bellamy Road Constellation, we were really new in the sport.
00:35:23I think sometimes people forget.
00:35:26We started in 2012.
00:35:28And frankly, I'm still learning something new every day.
00:35:32There's so much for me to learn compared to people who have been in the sport for much longer.
00:35:39So at that point, it was really Solis Lead Bloodstock trusting them.
00:35:44And we have the utmost trust and they love the filly, love her breeze.
00:35:49We definitely got a lot of, if you follow Twitter, a lot of flack.
00:35:53Why would you buy an $800,000 Bellamy Road?
00:35:57But you got to believe in your advisors and know that they have a reason why they bought her.
00:36:07And fortunately for us, it panned out.
00:36:10And in terms of selling her, it wasn't I wasn't nervous.
00:36:16I knew that she would bring good money.
00:36:18I don't even know. I don't even I think I was surprised, honestly, that she bought 3.1.
00:36:23But she was a beautiful mare.
00:36:24So it's not just about what they do on the race course.
00:36:28It's also you want to breed out of a beautiful mare.
00:36:31I was more sad to say goodbye.
00:36:34So you mentioned Alex Solis and Jason Lett.
00:36:36You've been working with them for a while.
00:36:38Can you talk about how that relationship came to be and just what your working relationship is like?
00:36:43You know, as you said, you're still learning as you learn more about the business.
00:36:47How much input do you have? How much input do they have?
00:36:49Talk about your relationship with them.
00:36:51So anyone who knows my story, it's maybe a little repetitive at this time, but maybe people don't.
00:36:58I met Alex in 2000, Alex Solis in 2012.
00:37:03I had started watching racing before then, but really the Triple Crown races.
00:37:09I'm a huge sports fan.
00:37:10ESPN is always on.
00:37:12That's my gig.
00:37:15And so I always follow the big races.
00:37:17But then Rachel Alexander came along and it wasn't just the Precursors, Martha Washington.
00:37:22It was everything.
00:37:24And as a athlete myself who.
00:37:28Played on mostly boys teams growing up because there weren't a lot of options for me at the level I was at, I appreciated her, you know, her running against the Colts and Stone Street's desire to give it an opportunity.
00:37:45And so I fell in love with her at that point.
00:37:48I was a little lost about what I wanted to do in my life.
00:37:52I knew I love sports and animals.
00:37:55And really, they're the ultimate athlete.
00:37:58So I would happen to have been in Del Mar.
00:38:01My father actually knows someone who knew Alex, so set up a meeting.
00:38:06I thought I was meeting his father, so I didn't understand.
00:38:11I was a little so I went into it a little nervous because, you know, in the racing world, he's kind of a star.
00:38:17So I meet Alex Solis Jr.
00:38:20And we just hit it off.
00:38:22Sometimes you hit it off with people.
00:38:24It was a timing thing.
00:38:26He asked what I wanted to do, how I wanted to get in the business.
00:38:31He said, please say you don't want to win the Derby because it's not going to happen.
00:38:36And funny enough, and.
00:38:40He came up with a business plan with Jason very quickly, the plan was to stay on the breeding side, actually by well-bred broodmares that fillings, actually, that if they don't pan on the track.
00:38:54We can fall back on breeding.
00:38:57That happened quickly because I met him in August.
00:39:01September was the Keeneland sale.
00:39:03My parents were all in on the business plan.
00:39:06They've always been supportive of any idea that myself or my brothers brought to them.
00:39:11They would support.
00:39:12So I'm very lucky in that respect.
00:39:15And we bought four mares of Keeneland, and in fact, unbelievably so, they all broke their maiden, which, you know,
00:39:24they could have all not made it to the track.
00:39:26So it started there and obviously grew pretty quickly.
00:39:31My father loves the racing side.
00:39:33So it went from breeding to racing, but still breeding.
00:39:38That's mostly our our thing.
00:39:40But on a day to in terms of what Alex and Jason and now Madison Scott do, really, we let them do their thing.
00:39:50We delegate.
00:39:52It's streamlined.
00:39:53I think.
00:39:55Keeping it close knit, it's just a very small amount of us, they've almost become family, and I think trust in this game and knowing you're being advised.
00:40:07To the T is so important, their streamlined service, they do meetings, they go to the sales, they speak to the trainers.
00:40:19Almost almost everything.
00:40:22And then I speak to them more often than my parents and we make decisions together.
00:40:28But really.
00:40:30They they do most of the hard work and we then we then I work with them to make sure we're on the same page and.
00:40:41That's really the gist of it, I said, I'm still learning, but my input is definitely important and we're not going to do something without.
00:40:49Us all typically being on the same page, so.
00:40:53Gotcha, Jamie, the one of the things that I get to kick out about your operation is the names of the horses and was like the greatest name ever.
00:41:03Absolutely.
00:41:04But it seems like, you know, you put a lot of thought and effort into it.
00:41:06You have a little bit of a mischievous nature, a strength in you.
00:41:09Could you talk about some of the names that, you know, what you've given horses and some of the ones that, you know, you think, yeah, wow, that was the story just was perfect place.
00:41:18Perfect time, right?
00:41:20I actually hadn't reserved the name.
00:41:22A friend of mine in California reserved it for me because it happened in the middle of the night, Eastern Standard Time, when the tweet was sent out.
00:41:30The person knew I would get a kick out of the name reserved it for me.
00:41:35I did love the name.
00:41:36It wasn't honestly it wasn't a matter of politics.
00:41:39It was just a funny name.
00:41:41You know, you could support that name, whatever your political beliefs were.
00:41:45So, you know, we knew Kafefi had this amazing ability.
00:41:52In fact, there was a decision whether to put her in a two year old sale or keep her because, you know, she could have topped this.
00:41:59She probably would have topped the sale had she performed that day.
00:42:02But we could have kept her and it panned out to very little.
00:42:06And we took the chance to keep her.
00:42:07But we knew she was talented.
00:42:09The mayor's name was Antics.
00:42:11So we went with that Antics into Mischief and Kafefi just just worked with that.
00:42:17You know, it always does.
00:42:18And I mean, would the name have been as good if she wasn't good?
00:42:22No.
00:42:26So other names, I believe that.
00:42:31Good horse, bad horse, mediocre horse, they all deserve good names, I view it as their their license plate.
00:42:39Um, first of all, you never know also who's going to end up being the one.
00:42:44I mean, you could have a horse working six furlongs in the morning.
00:42:48Great. And, you know, the afternoon, they just they don't show up.
00:42:51You could have a, you know, it's it's a difficult game.
00:42:55And so sometimes I give the horse the wrong name that I should be giving to someone else, vice versa.
00:43:02But like I loved Dogtag's name.
00:43:07I thought it was a brilliant name on Diamond Necklace and War Front.
00:43:12I don't know that many other people would have come up with that name.
00:43:15I'm not sure that a lot of people even realize the connection.
00:43:20But I literally spend so much time coming up with names and going on the computer and and typing in different things, different plays, you know, until finally I just find it.
00:43:34I'm not going to lie.
00:43:35I have to ask for names and you should see my list.
00:43:39It's about one hundred and forty names and they're one hundred dollars to reserve a name.
00:43:44So I'd say the Jockey Club is pretty fun.
00:43:48Yeah, yeah.
00:43:49No, the Jockey Club loves it.
00:43:50Actually, Jamie, you probably know the secret, but every year around Christmas time, the Jockey Club releases 30,000 names.
00:43:58And that's that's Christmas to me.
00:44:00Like I go I go that day and start reserving names, even if we don't have horses for them.
00:44:04That is our favorite day, too.
00:44:06And we break it up into, you know, different letters of the alphabet.
00:44:11And it is a fun day, but it is a long day.
00:44:14There are a lot of names.
00:44:15And what's amazing is how bad so many of the names are.
00:44:21I don't even know how some people come up with it.
00:44:23It's almost like some people just put two names together and go for that.
00:44:29And it's terrible.
00:44:31Like I said, every horse deserves a good name.
00:44:33But that is a good day.
00:44:36Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:37No, it's it's it's it's a great day.
00:44:39I always love that.
00:44:40And you guys have actually beaten me out on a couple of horses at auctions.
00:44:43And you've beaten me on a couple of names also.
00:44:45So we'll you know, we'll continue to battle on that.
00:44:48About the recently released names list is I usually get I go through it.
00:44:55I usually do submit them and get most.
00:44:57But there was one this year.
00:44:58I couldn't believe someone got to me before.
00:45:00And I'm just like, who is that person?
00:45:03Who was it?
00:45:04What was it like?
00:45:05Do you remember the name?
00:45:07God, I don't remember the name.
00:45:08It was just a really good name.
00:45:10You probably have it.
00:45:12If you if you if you see us running, then yeah, then we can be we can be partners.
00:45:15It would be really cool is if you could trade names like playing cards.
00:45:20Right. Yeah.
00:45:21I mean, that would just be really cool.
00:45:24Why? Right.
00:45:28Well, we'll we'll talk.
00:45:29We'll talk about that off air because I'm sure you have 140 names.
00:45:32We have like 100.
00:45:33Also, I'm sure we can like mix and match.
00:45:34And, you know, you're a sports person.
00:45:36So I'll give you this name for that name and a name to be named later.
00:45:39You know, we'll do traffic.
00:45:40So we'll figure it all out.
00:45:42We'll figure it out.
00:45:43I do have one more question for you, though.
00:45:45So back in September, you were one of four new additions
00:45:49to the Keeneland Advisory Board Board of Directors.
00:45:52What does that entail and what can our audience expect,
00:45:56you know, as far as what Keeneland is going to be doing,
00:45:59you know, on the cutting edge for the next few years?
00:46:01So I've only gotten a chance to be on one call.
00:46:05So, again, relatively new to the whole experience.
00:46:08So the first call, honestly, I was pretty nervous
00:46:12given the kind of honor to be on the board.
00:46:16So I was just taking it all in.
00:46:20Mostly it was how can we make the experience better at the sales ground
00:46:24at race day, just kind of floating ideas around.
00:46:30And I don't know what they'll run with, but just an example.
00:46:35They ask about different sporting events you've been to
00:46:39and what you like about those sporting events and how you can
00:46:45and what Keeneland can do better.
00:46:46That's what was really the gist of the meeting.
00:46:49What can we do better?
00:46:51What can we do better at the sales, the racetrack,
00:46:54just to make it a better experience?
00:46:57And truthfully, one of my ideas,
00:46:59I think it's become pretty popular now because of the reality show.
00:47:03I guess it's half reality.
00:47:05I don't know the Formula One racing.
00:47:06Have you been watching the new show?
00:47:08Drive to. Yeah. Yeah. So good.
00:47:11And I've been lucky enough to be at a Formula One race
00:47:15and the hospitality and the and how interactive
00:47:20you can be with the drivers and on the practice days.
00:47:25And just. The food, the seating,
00:47:30it's just about trying to make it a better experience.
00:47:32And they're and I think and I think they they will, they do.
00:47:36And I think it's going to be a great meet and great meet.
00:47:39I think everyone's excited for warm weather and good racing.
00:47:44Yeah. You know, it's funny that they asked us to be on one of the boards
00:47:48and the same thing, like, you know, what would you do?
00:47:50And I very jokingly said, oh, well, the minor league game baseball games,
00:47:54they shoot T-shirts out into the into there.
00:47:56So maybe we should shoot the jockey soaps out.
00:47:58And I never got asked back.
00:48:00Hey, that's a good idea.
00:48:03I like it a lot there.
00:48:04Now it's out there.
00:48:05I did, too, is that I think any idea
00:48:10of whether someone thinks it's good or bad is still an idea.
00:48:14And you never you never know what what will stick.
00:48:18Well, right.
00:48:20Nothing wrong with ideas.
00:48:22But I like I like that.
00:48:24That idea. I'll take one.
00:48:26I still I'll go to Keeneland.
00:48:28I'll get those shooting guns and I'll find you in the crowd of all people.
00:48:33Good. OK, good. Yeah.
00:48:34And she was right.
00:48:36So well, not right at you.
00:48:38So it's not obvious.
00:48:41Right. Thank you.
00:48:42Appreciate that.
00:48:43Can we get Patty and the camera crew to come to record?
00:48:48All right. So so last question for me,
00:48:50you've had some success in the game.
00:48:52What other races were in Alaska?
00:48:53Like you said, you go out of the box.
00:48:55What do you what are you thinking?
00:48:56Definitely the Kentucky Oaks.
00:48:58I mean, as a woman, and that's how I got into racing.
00:49:04To me, that that would be just amazing.
00:49:11Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:49:12I think the Breeders' Cup races are now it's the Super Bowl of racing
00:49:18as winning, lucky, like being lucky enough to win one
00:49:21and receiving that trophy and the pride I had.
00:49:24Actually, you know what?
00:49:25Winning a grade one with a home run.
00:49:30Right. That that would be amazing.
00:49:32And man, I was so so close in the Rodeo Drive.
00:49:35Maybe if the setup was just for me, you know, a little bit different.
00:49:39But to me, we're still started as a breeding operation.
00:49:43So it's not as much about what race.
00:49:45But I would love to win a grade one with a home run.
00:49:48Yeah. A full circle.
00:49:50So I have one more, Jamie.
00:49:53Again, as a as a fellow owner, you know, we try to be ambassadors
00:49:56for the sport to people who aren't in the game.
00:49:59And, you know, the past couple of years have been tough
00:50:03as far as, you know, friends and people coming up to me and asking me about racing.
00:50:07And there's such a kind of a cloud over it.
00:50:10How do you handle that situation when you try to be ambassador of the sport?
00:50:14And the general public has this kind of,
00:50:17you know, bad taste in their mouth about our industry?
00:50:19For me, it started kind of on a not to avoid the question,
00:50:23but on a different level, when I got into the sport, a lot of people
00:50:28were surprised because they look at horse racing as
00:50:33I want to say cruel, but to some extent cruel
00:50:36that they don't realize horses want to run.
00:50:39Horses love to run.
00:50:41They like their job.
00:50:42And that was hard to explain to people.
00:50:45So that was the first issue I had.
00:50:48At the end of the day, I believe in myself and I
00:50:51I have to know what I'm doing is what I believe in.
00:50:53If I did and I wouldn't do it.
00:50:54But that it started there for me, which was kind of tough
00:50:58because they don't realize these horses have incredible lives.
00:51:03And if you have good ownership behind the horses,
00:51:07whether they're good, not good, let's be honest, most horses
00:51:10just aren't very talented.
00:51:13We are so into finding them a good home
00:51:17and making sure they're well taken care of to what
00:51:21we're not the elephant in the room, the drug issue.
00:51:25I think I'm asked as pretty outspoken to some degree.
00:51:30I think it's a problem, I think, not just for for betters.
00:51:36Even, you know, even as a breeder,
00:51:39say you happen to be in a race and there's some kind of positive
00:51:44that can cost my horse the difference between being a grade one winner,
00:51:49a stakes winner, a listed winner, and then I go to sell a
00:51:55a daughter or Colton, that difference in their value
00:51:59because they don't have black type is significant.
00:52:02So on a level as a breeder, that is important to me.
00:52:06I don't know how many people see it as that way.
00:52:09I think there's a lot of work to be done.
00:52:11I think we're heading in the right direction, but.
00:52:18I think it's a it's a very
00:52:21confusing, tough situation,
00:52:25and it has to find a way of working itself out else.
00:52:30I think we're all in a big, a lot of trouble.
00:52:35That all I can say about it.
00:52:38Jamie, thank you so much for coming on and talking to us.
00:52:40Congratulations on Olympiad, all the recent success.
00:52:42And I'm glad you had me on.
00:52:43I watch your show and, you know, it's nice.
00:52:47I feel important to be asked. Thank you.
00:52:50Oh, absolutely.
00:52:51I told my head that was, you know.
00:52:54Oh, no, you're good.
00:52:56You're good.
00:52:56Hopefully we'll see you again in another winner's circle
00:53:00or maybe even lighthouse in the winner's circle in the Doncaster.
00:53:05The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group,
00:53:08an accounting, tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
00:53:12industry, as this week's Green Group guest of the week, Jamie Roth,
00:53:14will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
00:53:17Learn more at greenco.com.
00:53:19We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
00:53:22Why do the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen
00:53:25select the Green Group as their tax advisor?
00:53:27We simply save the money and know how to make them more successful.
00:53:30Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green has owned and bred
00:53:33some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport.
00:53:35His in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge, combined with cutting edge
00:53:38tax saving strategies, has produced positive results for his clientele
00:53:42and has made the Green Group the top rated accounting and tax firm in the business.
00:53:45For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100
00:53:51or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
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00:53:58With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round,
00:54:03there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:54:10Purse money in Kentucky is at an all time high, as is average purse per race,
00:54:14outpacing California, Florida and New York.
00:54:18Kentucky breds, breed them, raise them, race them.
00:54:24We all win.
00:54:28The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders.
00:54:32Kentucky breds dominated on the world stage this weekend with Country Grammar
00:54:35taking the $12 million Dubai World Cup, giving Kentucky breds
00:54:38back-to-back victories in the race.
00:54:40And then Switzerland, who used to run in America, won his first Group One
00:54:44in the $2 million Golden Shaheen.
00:54:46They both earned their breeders a $7,500 KBIF bonus.
00:54:50You can find your next Kentucky bred at the upcoming two-year-old sales later today.
00:54:54You can get in at Basic.
00:54:56Keeneland and Churchill's meats are coming up.
00:54:59Definitely a lot of good bonuses out there, as John mentioned before.
00:55:01So get involved with Kentucky breds if you haven't already.
00:55:05All right, so Bill reported on this last Friday.
00:55:08Naira has banned six trainers, including Wayne Potts and Juan Vasquez,
00:55:13who are two pretty toxic names in the business, I would say,
00:55:16from stabling at Belmont Park.
00:55:18Their horses must be off the grounds by today.
00:55:20Does, however, all six will still be permitted to race at Naira Tracks,
00:55:24at least for the time being.
00:55:25That might be a little bit of the result of the whole Bob Baffert kerfuffle
00:55:29that they don't want to go through all these legal proceedings
00:55:31with banning these guys from racing at the Naira Tracks.
00:55:34Says Bill, quoting Bill's story here, Naira's decision to not outright ban
00:55:38the trainers stems from a ruling issued in the Bob Baffert matter last July
00:55:42by the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York.
00:55:46The court ruled that trainers cannot be banned at the Naira Tracks
00:55:48without due process, starting with a formal statement of charges.
00:55:51So, yeah, they're going to have to go through a whole process
00:55:53to get rid of these guys.
00:55:55But what I thought was interesting, too, is that beyond Wayne Potts and Juan Vasquez,
00:55:58who a lot of people have a lot of suspicions about and guys
00:56:01who have failed a lot of drug tests, not even just suspicions.
00:56:04The other four trainers were low percentage guys that I, you know,
00:56:07I didn't understand, like John McAllen and Michael Simmons
00:56:11and like these very low percentage, low profile guys.
00:56:14Bill, what did you make of this?
00:56:17Well, it's an interesting story, and Naira for years really,
00:56:20you know, wasn't proactive about this sort of thing at all.
00:56:23And now they've done 180 degree turn and good for them.
00:56:28Joe, first of all, they because Potts, Vasquez and the rest are still able to run.
00:56:33That doesn't mean that they won't eventually give them this hearing.
00:56:37They have to.
00:56:38The judge basically said in the Baffert thing,
00:56:40you can't throw somebody out without a hearing.
00:56:41Now, the Baffert hearing is still not been decided yet.
00:56:46They haven't even started the Marcus Vitale hearing.
00:56:49So, I mean, obviously, if they want to give hearings or to these guys
00:56:53in an attempt to boot them for good, it's going to something
00:56:56that probably can't happen for several months down the road.
00:56:59So, you know, this is an interim step.
00:57:02It's a little awkward that you say the guy's not welcome to stable here,
00:57:05but he can race here.
00:57:07But I think their hands were tied on that.
00:57:09So so far as Juan Vasquez and Wayne Potts, their futures
00:57:13in New York Race Association tracks may be that they will not be able to race.
00:57:18The other part of it is what was it was such a strange group
00:57:20because there were six trainers and we have these two big names.
00:57:24I didn't even heard of the other four guys.
00:57:27They were all, you know, extremely low percentage trainers.
00:57:30And Dave Grenning wrote this.
00:57:32I did make it with one of the trainers that they were concerned
00:57:35that he wasn't properly taking care of the horses.
00:57:38I think that it's a fair to make an assumption here
00:57:42that that was probably the case with all these guys.
00:57:45The guy winning going one for fifty two in a year is not somebody who's cheating.
00:57:49I mean, that's just not happening.
00:57:51So, you know, stay tuned.
00:57:53There's more to come from this.
00:57:54But yeah, Naira deserves credit for this.
00:57:56And, you know, especially when Marcus Vitale ran at Saratoga last year,
00:58:00that left such a bad taste in my mouth.
00:58:02And, you know, their hands were tied.
00:58:04You know, it's been a long time since Saratoga.
00:58:06But they're trying to deal with this on a case by case basis.
00:58:10And, you know, it is it is an example of a racing jurisdiction
00:58:15being proactive and doing what we've been saying they should be doing.
00:58:18Not just Naira, but all these racetracks.
00:58:20You know, you don't get 52 chances in this sport.
00:58:23You know, after some point in time, you just have to say to these guys,
00:58:27you're not welcome here to participate.
00:58:29Goodbye.
00:58:30Good luck with the rest of your life.
00:58:31And, you know, in a very slow process, that appears to be what Naira is trying to do.
00:58:35I love the fact that these racing management teams are coming in and sweeping out,
00:58:39you know, the deadwood, whether it's because of, you know,
00:58:45horses that aren't being cared for or these guys are way behind on their on their bills.
00:58:51Or in this case with Juan Vasquez, who has, according to the red rulings dot com,
00:58:58one hundred and twenty five, one hundred twenty five violations.
00:59:02Now, again, some of them are, you know, for jockey club papers not being in on time
00:59:06or for the, you know, for their silks not being, you know, in the jobs room, you know, in advance.
00:59:12But a lot of them are infractions, they're drug infractions.
00:59:16And, you know, when you have guys like that, you have to look for a management standpoint.
00:59:22You don't want them representing your brand.
00:59:24You know, and I steal that from the NFL about, you know, you're every time a trainer enters a horse
00:59:30and an owner enters a horse, they're representing that racetrack
00:59:35because if something negative happens, it's always associated with the racetrack.
00:59:39So kudos to Naira for getting rid of guys like, you know, Juan Vasquez and Wayne Potts.
00:59:46And, you know, I remember very distinctly when we interviewed Sal Sinatra, who at the time was,
00:59:51you know, one of the head honchos for Maryland.
00:59:54And ironically enough, it was specifically on Wayne Potts.
00:59:57And he was like, we don't want people like that on a racetrack.
00:59:59We just don't want those guys here.
01:00:01And thankfully, these guys are running out of jurisdictions to run their horses in because
01:00:07because management, you know, are being proactive on this stuff.
01:00:11So I'm really happy that Naira has, you know, taken a stand with these trainers and saying,
01:00:17we don't want you here.
01:00:18And I know that their hands are tied legally, they have to let them run here.
01:00:22But if you're if you're like Wayne Potts, or Juan Vasquez, or any of the other four guys that were
01:00:27on the list, do you really run horses in New York at this point?
01:00:30I mean, you know, what kind of scrutiny you're going to be under, you know, and what kind of,
01:00:35you know, not only from the vets, but also from the testing.
01:00:38And, and, you know, when you ship in where you shipping in, you're probably going to get the
01:00:41really, you know, crappy barn.
01:00:43I mean, it's better off for these guys just to stay home, you know, in whatever safe haven they
01:00:48feel comfortable with, because they're because of their own actions.
01:00:52They're running out of places to run.
01:00:54Yeah, I mean, as John mentions, Wayne Potts, and also one of the things one of the other
01:00:59trainers that was banned from stabling there is Bonnie Lucas, who's an assistant for Wayne
01:01:04Potts. So that's been another problem is that you ban a trainer just puts all the sources in
01:01:08another trainers name, and it can still run effectively.
01:01:12And Potts and Lucas were suspended for 30 days last year by the New Jersey Racing
01:01:15Commission. Remember, Wayne Potts had that whole thing with the with the claiming violation
01:01:20last year at Saratoga.
01:01:22Potts was banned from the Maryland tracks in 2020.
01:01:25As John referred to, Sal Sinatra told him to get the hell out.
01:01:28That was amid allegations that he was a paper trainer for for the incredibly toxic Marcus
01:01:33Vitale. I just wanted to read Wayne Potts's quote here.
01:01:36It says, I was shocked when they told me I wasn't being allocated stalls.
01:01:40I supported the Naira Circuit strong through the last two winters when they have short
01:01:44fields. If this is an act to clean things up, there are other people that should be gone
01:01:48before myself. I don't have a whole list of medication violations.
01:01:52OK, I've done some stupid things in life, but there are other people that have done much
01:01:55worse than I have. That isn't really a denial.
01:01:58Honestly, he said the whole thing.
01:02:00I haven't had a bunch of medication violations.
01:02:01Well, yes, you have. But also, like, why are you coming for me?
01:02:05There's other people that are worse than me is not is not a denial.
01:02:08And the thing he said about the stalls, he kind of gave away the game there, which is that
01:02:13a lot of these guys have kind of under the table agreements, I think, with certain
01:02:18tracks and jurisdictions that, you know, we won't bust you if you fill stalls and fill
01:02:22races for us, especially in the dead of winter.
01:02:25And I think that's how a lot of these guys get to keep doing what they're doing.
01:02:29And, you know, kudos to Naira for saying, you know, honestly, we don't we don't really
01:02:33care that you're that you're filling stalls for us.
01:02:35There are certain people that are too toxic and too dangerous to have on our grounds.
01:02:41And, you know, hopefully there are proceedings, like Bill said, that are coming to where
01:02:44they can ban them from racing at the tracks, because right now it's a little bit of a
01:02:47toothless ban.
01:02:49But, you know, they like you said, like we said, they can't necessarily ban them outright
01:02:54right away. But yeah, like Wayne Potts and Juan Vasquez, no, there's no secrets that
01:02:58those guys are doing things that they should not be doing.
01:03:01They have the whole they have the list of they have the rap sheet to prove it.
01:03:05As John mentioned, you know, this is something that like like you guys say, they
01:03:11eventually they're going to run out of jurisdictions to race in, except for maybe a few
01:03:14small ones in this country.
01:03:17You know, I'm looking at you, Turf Paradise, for letting Marcus Vitale still run there.
01:03:21But yeah, this is, you know, we talk so much on the show about, you know, the patchwork
01:03:26system of enforcement and regulation that we have.
01:03:29But when you have the main tracks starting to do the right things, then I think that
01:03:33that becomes more of an effective unified front against people like this.
01:03:39The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV, the XBTV workout of the week this week,
01:03:44as you can see on the screen right now is Kentucky Derby hopeful Forbidden Kingdom, who
01:03:48worked in company with fellow Richard Mandela trainee Charlito last Thursday, doing six
01:03:53prolongs, one minute, 14 flat.
01:03:56The son of Kumar Ashford Stallion of American Pharoah is aiming for next Saturday's Run
01:04:01Happy Santa Anita Derby.
01:04:02Cannot wait to see him in there clashing with Messier.
01:04:05It's going to be a great race.
01:04:06You want to see their works.
01:04:08Check out XBTV.com.
01:04:10You can see all of the Derby contenders leading up to the May 7th Derby.
01:04:13We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
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01:05:33West Point had an exciting winner last week with Kodama, a three-year-old filly by Kodiak,
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01:05:55Okay, so we got some great action on the three-year-old front this weekend with the Arkansas Derby and the Florida Derby.
01:06:00We're going to get to that and do a little bit of a preview.
01:06:02But before we do that, we're going to throw up the current standings for our Derby Chase three-year-old fantasy stable contest.
01:06:10From last week, we ran one, two, three, four in the Louisiana Derby.
01:06:13And Bill Finley is riding Epicenter all the way to the top of the standings.
01:06:18Epicenter now has 150 total points.
01:06:20So Bill is in front with 200.
01:06:23Al is in second.
01:06:24He had Zozos in the run second in the Louisiana Derby.
01:06:27He's got 110 now.
01:06:29Amin third, did not have any action last weekend, got 90 points.
01:06:34John has leapfrogged Sue and moved into fourth out of the basement.
01:06:37He had slowed down Andy in the Sunland Derby, so he's up to 55.
01:06:41And Sue has 25.
01:06:43Pioneer Medina still holding strong for her.
01:06:46So we still got a lot of action to go, including obviously the Derby on May 7th.
01:06:51But this weekend, we've got the Florida Derby and the Arkansas Derby.
01:06:55Lots of action for all of us in there.
01:06:58In the Florida Derby, we don't have the actual entries yet, but we're going to go based on the probables.
01:07:03I have Clash at Causeway and White at Barrio.
01:07:05So two-pronged attack for me this weekend in the Florida Derby.
01:07:10Al has Simplification.
01:07:11Bill has Pop A Cap.
01:07:13John has Charge It, and I believe that's it, in the Florida Derby.
01:07:18But in terms of watching for big storylines, the storyline is going to be in the Arkansas Derby with Secret Oath running against the boys.
01:07:27And just looking at the field, I stand by what I said, that it makes total sense for her to run in here.
01:07:33No horse in the race other than her has run a 90-plus buyer.
01:07:38When's the last time you saw an Arkansas Derby going into it, nobody had run a 90-plus buyer.
01:07:42So she's going to be favorite.
01:07:43She's probably going to be a heavy favorite in that race.
01:07:46So that makes that race more interesting.
01:07:48But also it makes the fantasy earlier in the card more interesting, too, because she would have been 1-9 in that race.
01:07:53So both of those races are more interesting, and we're all going to root for the Philly.
01:07:58Just because of what a great story it is.
01:08:00And we want to see her run in the Kentucky Derby.
01:08:02And obviously, if she wins this race, we think she's going to go there, no matter what Wayne Lucas or the owners say.
01:08:07What are you guys looking forward to this weekend?
01:08:09You know, I want to see what Classic Causeway does, because to me, he's the enigma of this three-year-old class.
01:08:17You know, he's looked really good in his races, but, you know, it was Tampa Bay Downs.
01:08:21It was not exactly grade one company.
01:08:24And also his buyer numbers are not very good.
01:08:26And I'm really glad that Brian Lynch is putting him in the Florida Derby rather than, you know, sitting him on the bench in between the Tampa Bay Derby and the Kentucky Derby.
01:08:35Because I think that's the best way to manage the horse.
01:08:37You're going to be one of the favorites in a million-dollar race.
01:08:40And we're going to find out something about him.
01:08:43You know, I could see him winning.
01:08:44I could see him, you know, proving that he's just not quite good enough against White Iberio and Simplification.
01:08:49So I'm looking forward to that.
01:08:50And you know what?
01:08:51I hope Secret Oath wins by 15 lengths and goes in.
01:08:53And it's the biggest buzz at the Kentucky Derby that we've seen in years.
01:08:57And, you know, I actually talked to Wayne Lucas about this earlier in the week, and I'm going to write something about this.
01:09:02Boy, does horse racing need this, you know, with all the negativity and all the bad stories we've had.
01:09:07This is going to be the feel.
01:09:09If she goes in the Kentucky Derby, it's going to be the feel-good story of the decade.
01:09:14And, you know, Wayne Lucas is the perfect guy to be behind this with his stature, his iconic status and, of course, his age at 86.
01:09:21So, you know, that's what I'm, and I agree, Joe, you know, the Arkansas Derby, we haven't seen the Arkansas Derby come up this week in years.
01:09:30It's been such a strong prep, you know, Baffert always supports it a big time.
01:09:34And yeah, I mean, what a no brainer to put her in there.
01:09:37She's going to be six to five for $1.25 million with a trip, presumably to the Kentucky Derby on the line.
01:09:45I'm just going to focus primarily on the Arkansas Derby because you guys, you know, again, we're waiting to see exactly who's going to be running in the Florida
01:09:51Derby and you guys have hit on all the major points, but you look at the Arkansas Derby and you say, OK, it's a great one.
01:09:57There was a horse in here that got claimed for $50,000.
01:09:59There was another horse in here who ran and won for $8,030.
01:10:03You know, you have a couple of other horses that not only haven't, you know, broken $90,000 on the buyer numbers, but they're scrambling to get through $80,000, which at this stage of the game is not good enough to be in these, you know, in these preps.
01:10:18You know, and then some other interesting stories.
01:10:21You have the first horse of Tim Yaktin coming in, and that's Doppelganger for SF Racing and Starlight Racing at all, and taking the blinkers off and running for the first time out of the Baffert barn.
01:10:36Obviously, you know, the horse was out there all the way through March 26th when it breezed at Santa Anita.
01:10:41So, you know, it really, in essence, it really was Baffert trained, you know, as it's coming into the Arkansas Derby.
01:10:48You have Unoho, who at 75 to 1, you know, went by everyone in the Rebel.
01:10:53You have obviously Secret Oath, who is a story amongst stories.
01:10:57And then you also have the Jockey Shuffle, which I thought was really interesting because Florent Giroux sticks with Cyberknife, but that means that he's, you know, for Brad Cox.
01:11:09But that means he's taking off We The People, who was undefeated in two starts.
01:11:13So Flavian Pratt is going to ride We The People.
01:11:16Well, he's taking off Doppelganger, you know, so so it's like it's like this really weird, you know, kind of jockey juxtaposition as far as, you know, what's going on.
01:11:27To me, it comes down to, like you guys said, Secret Oath.
01:11:31I would love to see this Arrogate Philly, you know, win.
01:11:34I think all of us are rooting for her to win.
01:11:36And, you know, shame on me because Skip Anderson, I asked, you know, faithful fan Skip Anderson back in February if he had any insight on a long shot to pick.
01:11:45And he actually told me Secret Oath.
01:11:46And I was like, I even said there's no way that a Philly is going to be doing this.
01:11:50But you know what, Skip, I know you're listening.
01:11:52You were 100 percent correct, buddy.
01:11:54You were 100 percent correct.
01:11:55This Philly may have the inside track and maybe would have won me the contest if I, you know, if I only I was on the balls enough to actually pick her.
01:12:03Yeah, I mean, listen, other than we, the people at Doppelganger and her, there's really nobody to get super excited about in that race.
01:12:10And shout out to Skip for picking her out early.
01:12:12It's a great job by him.
01:12:13Can't wait to see his horse on the track, John, too, also later this year.
01:12:17Stay on our good side.
01:12:18But yeah, with Secret Oath, like Bill says, it's such a great story.
01:12:22And it also makes this race worth watching.
01:12:24Like, I honestly would not really be that interested in watching the Arkansas Derby this year if it weren't for her.
01:12:30She's appointment viewing.
01:12:31She's appointment viewing.
01:12:32And I think that'll transfer to the Kentucky Derby.
01:12:34Like, like you guys are saying that it'd be such a great story if she goes in there, that someone who may not watch the Derby on, you know, on a regular basis every year will hear that there's a Philly in the race and will tune in to see what happens.
01:12:46So we're rooting for her and hopefully see her at Churchill Downs and five weeks hence after this race.
01:12:53The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:12:56If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business could benefit your program, give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:13:01They personally advise each horse as if they were their own.
01:13:05Summer yearling deadlines will be here before you know it.
01:13:07The deadline for Kino in September is May 2nd.
01:13:10Facing Tip in July in Saratoga is May 6th.
01:13:13And then the deadline for the Facing Tip in New York bread sale is May 13th.
01:13:17Give Tommy or Wendy a shout to discuss your plans for those sales.
01:13:20Be right back after this message from Legacy Bloodstock.
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01:13:29We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:13:31We're always with your horse every step of the way.
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01:13:53All right, so that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.
01:14:00We are nine days away from the Keeneland Spring Meet opening up.
01:14:04Don't forget about the Keeneland Horses of Racing Age sale, which is Friday, April 29th.
01:14:09Entry deadline is this Friday, April 1st.
01:14:11You can enter those supplements up to sale date.
01:14:14I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green, Green Group Guest of the Week, Jamie Roth, our producer, Patty Wolf, our associate producer, Katie Petruniak, and our editors,
01:14:22Anthony LaRocca, Aliyah LaRocca, Nathan Wilkinson.
01:14:25Thank you so much for watching.

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