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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:24Good morning.
00:00:25This is the Writer's Room brought to you by Keeneland.
00:00:26It's 902 on Wednesday, July 27th.
00:00:30I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, filling in for Joe Bianca this
00:00:33week, who's on vacation.
00:00:35And I caught some news this week, and we'll talk about this a little bit later, but what's
00:00:39going on at TBG, and it's going to be renamed, TBG is going to be renamed, excuse me, FanDuel
00:00:45Television, and at night, they're going to show Korean football, pickleball, and Chinese
00:00:50basketball.
00:00:51So if you're tuning in to FanDuel TV at night to bet on Korean football, you need help now.
00:00:59Jonathan Green, general manager of DJ Stable, and I actually want to be very sincere on
00:01:04my intro this time.
00:01:05It's going to be my father's birthday on Saturday, and I just wanted to say to my dad, thank
00:01:11you for being a mentor and a sounding board and a friend over the years, and in so many
00:01:16ways, I'm so happy that you're my father.
00:01:19And the only person who's even happier than you being my dad is my therapist.
00:01:22So from my therapist and my dad, happy birthday.
00:01:25Yeah, we love Lennon Green.
00:01:27By the way, I want to remind you that the Writer's Room podcast is brought to you each
00:01:30and every week by Keeneland, and this November, Keeneland is the place to be as the home of
00:01:35the Breeders' Cup World Championships, followed directly by the November breeding stock sale.
00:01:40Entry deadline is August 1st.
00:01:41Learn more at november.keeneland.com.
00:01:45So John, let's get into the big races over last week, and obviously, we have to start
00:01:48off with Monmouth Park and the Haskell, the TBG.com Haskell, and a mild upset in there.
00:01:53Cyberknife, a legitimate horse, a grade one winner in the Arkansas Derby, but most people
00:01:58thought it was going to be a race that came down to either Taba or Jack Christopher, the
00:02:03two heavy favorites in the race.
00:02:04I couldn't see anybody else winning.
00:02:06Cyberknife wins, Taba second, Jack Christopher third.
00:02:09The story is as much Cyberknife as it is Jack Christopher.
00:02:13I had been on this horse's bandwagon since day one, as have a lot of people.
00:02:18He's not a bad horse.
00:02:19It wasn't a bad race, but clearly what we found out about him is he's not a two-turn
00:02:24mile and eighth horse.
00:02:25Think of him as another Jackie's Warrior, and Jackie's Warrior is a tremendous horse.
00:02:29But what did you think in particular of Jack Christopher and the Haskell?
00:02:33Yeah, you know, those three horses, Jack Christopher, Cyberknife, and Taba were definitely the ones
00:02:38that were in the spotlight heading into the gate for this race.
00:02:42And you know, Jack Christopher showed exactly what he is, which is a phenomenal sprinter,
00:02:46absolutely phenomenal one-turn horse, son of Munnings.
00:02:50And you know, Chad Brown has done a really good job of trying to eat the horse into a
00:02:54mile and a mile and an eighth.
00:02:57Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the ability at this level, at a grade one level, to get
00:03:02to that point.
00:03:03But I can't wait to continue to see Jack Christopher.
00:03:06Rumors are he's going to run in the Allen Jerkins and then, you know, maybe the Breeders'
00:03:10Cup sprint.
00:03:11I'm sure there's going to be a race in between.
00:03:13But he is a phenomenal athlete and a phenomenal horse and added a lot of spice to this race.
00:03:18And the other spicy part of the race was the last 16th of a mile.
00:03:22Because it looked like that for, you know, for a second that Taba, the son of Gunrunner,
00:03:26the $1.7 million yearling, excuse me, two-year-old purchase, was going to hit the wire first.
00:03:31And you know, hats off to Giroux, who did such a phenomenal job on Cyberknife of finding
00:03:38the hole in the rail, getting up there, you know, through the hole and coaxing Cyberknife
00:03:43to a victory.
00:03:44So, you know, the race started off with those three as spotlighted.
00:03:49And I think it ended, you know, with conversations about all three.
00:03:52And Bill, I think you also have to have a big conversation about Gunrunner, about this
00:03:56young sire, son of Candy Ride, who has had horses that have run and won greatest stake
00:04:02races throughout the country and throughout North America.
00:04:06And now here's another latest example of Gunrunner having the X-ACTA in the grade one
00:04:11Haskell between Cyberknife and Taba.
00:04:14John, another observation about the race, I thought Taba ran a huge race.
00:04:19And if you looked on the turn, he was backpedaling.
00:04:21He was going in the wrong direction.
00:04:22I thought he was done at that point.
00:04:24And then it looks like what happened was that he didn't like being in between horses down
00:04:28towards the inside.
00:04:30When Mike Smith got him out into the clear, he took off and put in another gear, taking
00:04:34nothing away from Cyberknife.
00:04:35But I think all things being equal, you know, maybe Taba was the better horse.
00:04:40Yeah.
00:04:41And that's horse racing, because not always, you know, the best horse doesn't always hit
00:04:44the wire first.
00:04:45Sometimes you get in traffic problems.
00:04:47And you know, lest we forget, Taba not only hadn't run since the Kentucky Derby, which
00:04:52was early in May, obviously, but this was only his fourth career start.
00:04:56So, you know, you're asking a horse to do so much when you're asking him to win a grade
00:05:01one race.
00:05:02And Taba had to ship, you know, cross country, run on a racetrack he'd never run before.
00:05:06Again, it was only his fourth start of his career.
00:05:09Mike Smith hadn't been on him since the Kentucky Derby.
00:05:11So there's asking a lot of these horses.
00:05:13And even though they paid seven figures for the horse, it doesn't necessarily mean that
00:05:17you're going to get not only ability, but you're also going to get maturity.
00:05:21And that happens.
00:05:22You need a horse to have four or five, six races under his belt to do things like this,
00:05:27like go between horses.
00:05:28And I really think that's one of the reasons why Cyberknife was able to hit the hole in
00:05:31the rail and go up there, because this is his ninth start.
00:05:35And he's a seasoned veteran, you know, especially compared to Taba.
00:05:39Yeah, Taba will not run in the Traverse because Bob Baffert is not allowed to run horses as
00:05:45we speak in Saratoga because of Naira's ban.
00:05:47So we'll see where he comes back.
00:05:48Pennsylvania Derby would sound like a logical spot for him, as there's no problems having
00:05:53Baffert run his horses at parks.
00:05:55Now, the other big story of the day was Chad Brown.
00:05:58You know, sometimes I think we take this guy for granted because he's so good and does
00:06:02so much.
00:06:03So he entered in six races on the card.
00:06:06Going into the Haskell, he had won all five of them.
00:06:09It started off with an allowance race, then Highly Motivated won the Monmouth Cup.
00:06:13LaMista wins the Windstar Matchmaker.
00:06:15Search Results wins the Motley Pitcher.
00:06:17And then Adamo won the Grade 1 UN.
00:06:20And you know, what struck me, John, is, you know, here's a guy who won four graded stakes
00:06:24races going into the Haskell.
00:06:26And he more or less brought his junior varsity to Monmouth.
00:06:29I mean, you know, Adamo is a good example.
00:06:31This is a horse that had lost eight straight starts and was 0-3 since coming in to the
00:06:36States from France.
00:06:38And you know, he got the job done in the Grade 1 race.
00:06:42And you know, this guy just has the depth of his operation is getting to the point it's
00:06:46unlike anything we've ever seen.
00:06:48I mean, you could literally look down at the 25th, 30th best horse in his barn, and that's
00:06:53at the very least a Grade 2 winner.
00:06:55And then only Chad Brown could win five races on the day in four Grade 1 races and probably
00:07:01went home disappointed because of the fact that Jack Christopher didn't win the race.
00:07:06And Jack Christopher, of all that group, looked like his most likely winner.
00:07:10But you know, you just you just wonder, I mean, this guy is good as he has been over
00:07:15the years.
00:07:16I think his stable is getting stronger every year.
00:07:18It looks like it.
00:07:19And a lot of that build, I think, is because of his European presence.
00:07:22He's bringing over good horses or his owners are buying and bringing over some really talented
00:07:27horses.
00:07:28And Adamo is just the most recent one.
00:07:30And you mentioned that, you know, if he's junior varsity for Chad Brown, you know, what
00:07:35is he over in Ireland?
00:07:36I mean, you know, and we've seen a lot of Euros come here and win big races and including
00:07:42Breeders' Cups over the past couple of years.
00:07:44But yeah, it's an embarrassment of riches for a guy like Chad Brown.
00:07:47And not only, you know, was he a little disappointed, I'm sure, about the fact that Jack Christopher,
00:07:52you know, didn't hit the didn't win, I should say, but I'm sure he's disappointed that he's
00:07:55not our guest of the week.
00:07:56I mean, what do you have to do to be the goddamn guest of the week here?
00:07:59You know, you got to go.
00:08:01We have high standards here.
00:08:02You got to go six for six.
00:08:03Exactly.
00:08:04That's it.
00:08:05You were so close, Chad.
00:08:06You were this close.
00:08:07I swear to you.
00:08:08But I also want to, you know, we talk about these super trainers and all the great things
00:08:12that they've done with their talented bench and everything like that.
00:08:16But can I shift gears for a second to an up and coming trainer, you know, Kent Sweezy,
00:08:21who, you know, has had a couple of horses for us over the years, has done a good job
00:08:25with his win percentage and improving his barn.
00:08:28He took Epic Bromance and ran second in the United Nations on his on his home turf, literally
00:08:35on his home turf at Monmouth Park.
00:08:37But here's a guy who's a young, you know, guy from Kentucky.
00:08:41He didn't want to go into consigning like like his dad went into training because that
00:08:45was his true love.
00:08:46And now he's picking up horses and Epic Bromance, you know, recently was in Kelly Breen's barn
00:08:52and Mark Cassie's barn.
00:08:54And yet, Kent Sweezy was important enough for him and he got he figured out the horse,
00:08:59you know, as far as how he could get a mile and three eighths, you know, for the United
00:09:05Nations.
00:09:06And he ran a very credible second in that race with a horse that, you know, was a claiming
00:09:10horse and that Sweezy has improved upon.
00:09:13So, you know, we want to highlight not only the big trainers, but also some of the smaller
00:09:17guys that do well.
00:09:18And I think, you know, Kent Sweezy is a guy who is an up and coming trainer in this business.
00:09:22Yeah, I believe the horse was 70 to one.
00:09:24So a good performance there.
00:09:26Certainly to finish second.
00:09:27OK, let's go over to Saratoga, where the big race on Saturday was the coaching club American
00:09:31Oaks.
00:09:32Another essentially was a match race.
00:09:34Only five horses in the race.
00:09:35But, you know, if you're going to have only a five horse field, it certainly helps to
00:09:39have the two best three year old Phillies in the country.
00:09:42And going into the race, I think there was some debate who was the better horse, Secret
00:09:46Oath or Nest.
00:09:48The last time they had met was in the Kentucky Oaks when Secret Oath beat Nest.
00:09:53There's no doubt about it now.
00:09:54I mean, absolutely.
00:09:55Nest put on a show.
00:09:57She wins by 12 and a quarter length.
00:09:58She just absolutely thrashed Secret Oath.
00:10:02And you know, here's a horse by Curlin who was good coming into this race and I think
00:10:07moved up to a next level and is getting better all the time.
00:10:10She really is.
00:10:11This was a wow race.
00:10:13And you mentioned it was a five horse field, which, Bill, I know you're going to love this.
00:10:16It is still 20 percent more than the Honorable Mist, the grade two Honorable Mist that's running
00:10:20this afternoon.
00:10:21But it's a four horse field.
00:10:22But you're looking at a very talented, albeit small group of Phillies that ran in the coaching
00:10:28club America Oaks.
00:10:29Nest, I think, easily stamped herself as the top three year old Philly in the country.
00:10:36And rightfully so.
00:10:37She put on just a tremendous show.
00:10:38She had an extra gear down the stretch that nobody else in the race had.
00:10:42And don't forget, this is nine furlongs and she's accelerating down the stretch.
00:10:46I mean, that was and I'm not comparing her to Secretariat, but it was kind of Secretariat
00:10:50esque as far as how much more talented she was than the rest of this field, for example.
00:10:55Yeah.
00:10:56I mean, keep in mind that she didn't just win by 12 and a quarter length.
00:10:59She beat the Kentucky Oaks winner by 12 and a quarter length.
00:11:02All right.
00:11:03So Sunday at Saratoga, again, a four horse field in the Chouvy.
00:11:07But again, if you're going to have a small field, it certainly helps to have some stars
00:11:10in there.
00:11:11And the rematch between Clairier and Malathat was actually the sixth time these two Phillies
00:11:16have run against each other.
00:11:17And it started off last year was all Malathat.
00:11:20She finished ahead of Clairier all four times they've met.
00:11:24But Clairier, once again, I mean, superiority was proven on the racetrack, trained by Steve
00:11:28Asmussen.
00:11:29She got the job done.
00:11:30And, you know, we'll see how Latruska does when she comes back.
00:11:34It looks like she's going to be ready for the personal ensign later in the meet.
00:11:38Right now, Clairier leads this division.
00:11:40She does.
00:11:41And Bill, what a great group of older mares that are coming into form at the right time.
00:11:47You're talking about some of the top ones that you mentioned.
00:11:50Latruska obviously is coming back.
00:11:52You'd like to think that she would be able to come back to her top form, although we
00:11:55did talk about her a little bit on a previous show that maybe, you know, she's on the on
00:12:00the downswing of her overall career.
00:12:03But you're talking about those kind of fillies and mares and then the fact that they're going
00:12:07to be up against some of the top three-year-old fillies that we just talked about with Nest
00:12:12and Secret Oath.
00:12:13And I mean, this three-year-old filly, excuse me, this Breeders' Cup, this staff is really
00:12:19shaping up to be quite a race.
00:12:22Yeah, it certainly is.
00:12:24So that was the Shoe V Sunday at Saratoga.
00:12:27Big weekend of racing highlighted by the Haskell.
00:12:30And I want to remind you that Keeneland sales graduates were in the winner's circle this
00:12:33past weekend.
00:12:34Headlined by the Grade 1 Coaching Club American Oaks winner, Nest, was a $350,000 purchase
00:12:38for Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners and Ripoli Stables.
00:12:41Other graded stakes winning Keeneland graduates include Grade 3 Molly Pitcher Stakes victor
00:12:45Search Results, Grade 3 Monmouth Cup Stakes winner, Highly Motivated, and Grade 3 Henry
00:12:49Stakes winner, that's up at Woodvine, Hazelbrook.
00:12:52Your next opportunity awaits at the Keeneland September Sale, which starts Monday, September
00:12:5612th.
00:12:57We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:13:00When the thoroughbred world descends upon Lexington this November, there is one place
00:13:06you need to be.
00:13:07The place where history comes alive with every championship victory.
00:13:13The place where the future is built with the fall of a gavel.
00:13:18The place that exists to be the heart of this industry.
00:13:21The centre of it all.
00:13:23Home to the November Breeding Stocks Sale, and the 2022 Breeders' Cup, Keeneland.
00:13:29He was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.
00:13:34Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:13:36Tis the law, pops the cork and the champagne.
00:13:39Tis the law, is gonna win the first leg of the Triple Crown.
00:13:43I've never seen him get tired.
00:13:45Respect the law, tis the law.
00:13:47His structure is just perfect.
00:13:49His bone is perfect.
00:13:51He's left the others behind.
00:13:53He's gonna win the Run Happy Travers.
00:13:55He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:14:01The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore, and the impressive winners keep
00:14:04coming for Triple Crown winner, Justify.
00:14:07On Friday, his son, Justa Warrior, scored a five-length debut victory at Ellis Park.
00:14:11There was a 1-2 finish for Coolmore Sire juveniles at Saratoga on Sunday, when Kayleen, a daughter
00:14:16of practical joke, let home a Justify filly named Rarify in a made-in-special-weight race.
00:14:21Kayleen was named a TDN Rising Star, but her sire, Practical Joke, now has 43 winners
00:14:26in 2022 and leads the class of second-prop sires.
00:14:31So John, in the news this week was a story that I think, well, I'll give you the, first
00:14:37of all, the nuts and bolts, but I think we need to go look behind the curtain a little
00:14:40bit.
00:14:41There was a report from a website called Legal Sports Report that reported there's gonna
00:14:46be some major changes at TVG, likely in September, starting with a rebranding and rename.
00:14:52TVG is going to be renamed FanDuel Television, and TVG, too, is gonna be renamed FanDuel
00:14:59Racing.
00:15:00FanDuel, of course, is the parent company that owns TVG and is huge in the online sports
00:15:05betting market, daily fantasy sports whatsoever.
00:15:09Now, the report said that from, I guess, 5 a.m. to 9 a.m., it's going to be all sports
00:15:18wagering talk.
00:15:19Then they're gonna do racing with some live cut-ins during the day.
00:15:23Presumably, you know, someone may come in and say, you know, Kyrie Irving is hurt tonight,
00:15:29so keep that in mind when you wanna bet on the Nets or something like that.
00:15:32And then from 9 p.m. on, they're going to go back to the sports talk and have, again,
00:15:39you can't make this up, Korean football, pickleball, and Chinese basketball.
00:15:44So, you know, on the surface, if that's all that's going to happen, I don't think there's
00:15:49any reason to panic.
00:15:52But I think you've gotta look beyond this a little bit.
00:15:55And if they're going to rename TVG FanDuel TV, and then rename TVG, too, FanDuel Racing,
00:16:02that makes me believe that they've got bigger plans here, and that eventually, TVG is going
00:16:06to become a 24-7 sports wagering network.
00:16:10Now, the problem is that if everything goes to TVG, too, racing-wise, and I looked all
00:16:17over the Internet, I tried to get some statistics on the availability of TVG, too, and TVG and
00:16:22number of households in the country, I couldn't find anything.
00:16:25But I can tell you, I don't get TVG, too.
00:16:27I don't know if you do.
00:16:29I know very few people that get it.
00:16:33If in fact, you know, maybe I'm just panicking for no reason.
00:16:38But if in fact that's what they do, if TVG, too, becomes the racing channel, and TVG becomes
00:16:42the sports betting channel, I think that's a big blow for racing.
00:16:45Yeah.
00:16:46It almost looks like they're setting up for a decoupling situation.
00:16:49Right.
00:16:50And if they do set up for a decoupling situation, then we're going to lose, as an industry,
00:16:55in this divorce proceeding.
00:16:57The fact that they have FanDuel TV and FanDuel Racing established in the short term, I think,
00:17:04is good news because at least then we'll have a way to get to the masses and still be in
00:17:09the public eye.
00:17:10I think that the TVG, too, is part of like a special sports package.
00:17:15So if you get the Mercedes-Benz package for sports, then you get the TVG, too, thrown
00:17:23in there.
00:17:25We have it, and we have it so I can watch some of these races around the country.
00:17:30But unfortunately, even if we only go down to one channel as an industry, there's going
00:17:35to be an issue with showing races because we still have so many racetracks and so many
00:17:41of them overlap as far as post time goes.
00:17:43So right now with the two channels, yeah, you can watch races that are going almost
00:17:50in sync at the same time and still get some commentary, pre-commentary and post-race commentary
00:17:56on it.
00:17:57I fear that if we're only going to have the one channel, it's basically going to be like
00:18:00speed dating.
00:18:01And every two minutes, you're going to have a different racetrack and you're going to
00:18:03be able to watch the race.
00:18:04And pretty much as soon as that race, you know, the sources hit the wire, they're going
00:18:07to flip over to the next race that's coming up, because I think that's what the general
00:18:11public wants.
00:18:12They want to have that instant action.
00:18:13Now, for people like us who want to analyze the races, it's going to be to our detriment.
00:18:18We're going to have to have other sources.
00:18:20But FanDuel is stepping up not only by buying this channel, but Bill, I don't know if you
00:18:25saw some of the celebrities and some of the people they're bringing on to actually be
00:18:31the talking heads of some of these shows that they have.
00:18:34Kay Adams, who basically was the anchor for Good Morning Football for years and years
00:18:39and years, basically left that job to come over to be a part of FanDuel.
00:18:46And there's other really high profile people that are coming.
00:18:49It's almost too bad that none of them are Randy Moss or none of them are somebody that
00:18:53can highlight our industry a little bit as well.
00:18:56But, you know, it looks like in the short run, I think it's going to be a positive thing.
00:19:01But Bill, I'm concerned also that in the long run, we're going to be like the redheaded
00:19:04stepchild of this merger.
00:19:06I mean, that's the other thing, you know, the woman you mentioned, and I'm not familiar
00:19:10that I don't watch NFL TV, but apparently she's a big deal.
00:19:13They didn't bring her in so just so that she'd be on at eight o'clock in the morning
00:19:17and that would be talking about point spreads and that sort of thing.
00:19:21But John, I think there's a bigger issue here, too.
00:19:23And, you know, when sports betting came in, you know, my prediction was eventually this
00:19:29is going to be a big problem for horse racing.
00:19:31And the reason why is, I think, is obvious.
00:19:34If you up till the past, the Supreme Court striking down the prohibition on sports betting
00:19:40in this country, racing was had the monopoly of being the only game you could legally wager
00:19:45on online.
00:19:46Now, not only does it have not have a monopoly, it's competing against something that is immensely
00:19:51more popular than horse racing.
00:19:53I mean, you know, the NFL, NBA, NHL, et cetera, Major League Baseball.
00:19:58And also, I think there's a factor that, you know, how are you going to get young people
00:20:02interested in gambling on racing when they have this other option?
00:20:06And I think this is the type of thing that we're going to see.
00:20:09I mean, sports betting hasn't bulldozed racing.
00:20:11It hasn't caused at least so far any major problems and handle handles doing just fine.
00:20:16But, you know, this is the type of thing that I worry that, you know, the emphasis would
00:20:20so switch the sports betting that racing would be left behind.
00:20:24If, in fact, TVG is going to become a sports betting wagering channel, this is exactly
00:20:30the type of thing I was talking about and worried about.
00:20:33And we've seen it time and time again, where when you have racinos, you know, you have
00:20:38the racetrack that are casinos and you walk through them, 95 percent of the people who
00:20:44are there don't even know there's races going on, let alone that they're at a racetrack.
00:20:48And, you know, that in the long run really spells for a problem, especially for some
00:20:53of the smaller racetracks that have racinos.
00:20:56And this isn't helping.
00:20:59But Bill, I think it's going to be a situation where it's either going to galvanize us as
00:21:03an industry and make us realize that we need to, again, continue to get our act together
00:21:07and and, you know, and have a singular voice and a singular set of rules and enough for
00:21:13the fiefdom protection mode that we as an industry have been in for the past, you know,
00:21:19umpteen years. Or we're going to sink because basically these other popular industries are
00:21:25going to lap us and make it to the point where people don't really care about horse
00:21:30racing and the people who do care about horse racing are no longer in a position to
00:21:34either gamble or or even to buy horses because they're just not alive anymore.
00:21:40So I think it's a concern, but we still have time.
00:21:44It's almost like, you know, the you know, the climate issue right now.
00:21:48You know, there's still time to fix it, but it means that we all better get our shit
00:21:51together and start planning and doing rather than just kind of kicking the can down the
00:21:56road. Well, one place where they do have their expletive together is Delmar.
00:22:01And the last week we talked about the big numbers that came out of Saratoga during opening
00:22:05weekend. So Delmar opened a week after Saratoga, a little bit unusual.
00:22:09There are different schedule this year.
00:22:11Is there going past Labor Day for the first time perhaps ever?
00:22:14I don't know. But on the Friday card opening day, they handled twenty three point five
00:22:18six million. That was a record.
00:22:20Also, I didn't realize they did this.
00:22:22They limited attendance.
00:22:24It was a sellout.
00:22:25You couldn't just go in and have an unlimited crowd.
00:22:27I guess they were worried that over the years it got too crowded.
00:22:30Their lines were too long, whatever.
00:22:31So it was a sellout. Twenty one thousand six hundred eighty people.
00:22:35Then for the entire three day weekend, they averaged twenty two point three five million.
00:22:39Another record field size, ten point six runners in a race.
00:22:44Again, now talking about the phenomenons of racing, you know, every time we talk about
00:22:48Saratoga, Delmar, the big days like the Breeders' Cup, the Kentucky Derby days, et
00:22:54cetera, Kentucky downs, they're always it seems every single meet setting new records,
00:22:59handle records, et cetera.
00:23:00However, racing as a whole, at least this year, handle this flat.
00:23:05It's not going up. Went up a little bit last year.
00:23:07So I think what we're seeing here is, you know, we're not getting more dollars bet as a
00:23:12whole. We're seeing people just, you know, can't get enough of these great racetracks and
00:23:18these great signals. So, you know, I think the same guy who might have been betting on
00:23:22Delaware Park on a Saturday now say, what am I doing this for?
00:23:26I'm going to be betting on Saratoga, et cetera.
00:23:28So, you know, as a whole for an industry, I don't know if it's doing us that much good.
00:23:33But if you focus on these racetracks in particular, I mean, business is great.
00:23:38It keeps getting better.
00:23:39But again, I think, you know, here's the message.
00:23:41Look at what we talked about at Delmar, beautiful racetrack, great racing and quality
00:23:48racing, high class fields and field size of ten point six runners per race.
00:23:52I mean, the formula is is very simple.
00:23:55Now, I know everybody can't do this.
00:23:57I mean, Mountaineer Park is not going to average ten point six runners a race and have
00:24:01great allowance races and have, you know, great stakes races, et cetera.
00:24:05But the public has spoken.
00:24:07Give us what we want.
00:24:08Give us great racing, big fields.
00:24:11Take out of Delmar, I guess, is OK.
00:24:12It's not particularly low.
00:24:13It's not particularly high, but they're not ripping anybody off with twenty five percent
00:24:16takeouts on the pick, whatever.
00:24:19And they will respond.
00:24:20The product is done right.
00:24:22The public laps it up.
00:24:25They really do. And Bill, out of all the numbers you mentioned, the field size average
00:24:29ten point six runners per race is tremendous.
00:24:32I mean, we talk all the time about how small fields most of these great at stake races
00:24:37are. And Delmar put together, you know, it's just a phenomenal card for their weekend.
00:24:42And to average ten and more than ten and a half starters per race is really outstanding.
00:24:48And that's what the public wants.
00:24:49The public wants to have more options in great racing and all the things you mentioned.
00:24:54But by having that number of horses on average in each race, it allows the racetrack to
00:25:00offer more betting options.
00:25:02So when you have a ten or eleven horse field, you can offer the trifectas and the
00:25:06superfectas and the pick fours and pick fives.
00:25:09And people will run to that opportunity, especially in comparison to other racetracks
00:25:14where they're not getting that many horses in a race and they're not getting that many
00:25:19options to bet.
00:25:21So I think, again, we're seeing more and more of these super tracks coming together.
00:25:25And a super track doesn't necessarily mean the biggest, but super meets, I guess, is
00:25:30probably the better way of saying it, where you have a big weekend with lots of great
00:25:34state races and they were fortunate to have good weather.
00:25:37And that's why they got the record.
00:25:40And whether it's that or whether it's Keeneland for the four week meet that they have
00:25:44or Kentucky Downs, it seems like that people love to have these one offs of going to the
00:25:49track and it's an event and it's almost like going to a baseball game or a football
00:25:53game. Actually, it's better than going to a Red Sox game because at least you have a
00:25:56chance to win. But they go to these kind of like one off events and they're seeing it
00:26:01as this is an entertainment.
00:26:02This is what I'm going to do on a Saturday instead of going to a restaurant or going
00:26:06to a show or going to hang out with my friends at a barbecue.
00:26:11They're basically saying, I'm taking my vacation entertainment dollars and I'm going
00:26:16to go to the racetrack because there's 11 horses in every race and I have a chance to
00:26:20have fun and have a good afternoon.
00:26:23Yeah. And what's remarkable, too, is Santa Anita is known for having, unfortunately,
00:26:27very small fields. It's the same circuit, but we're also seeing what the horsemen are
00:26:31doing now with both Saratoga and Delmar.
00:26:33They point for these meets.
00:26:35They know their owners are going to come out, bring all their friends.
00:26:38There's going to be adult beverages being passed around.
00:26:40And I think we're seeing, you know, a guy at Belmont the last couple of weeks at
00:26:44Belmont say, you know what, do I really want to run in this allowance race when it's in
00:26:47the book for the second week at Saratoga?
00:26:50So, you know, you're getting the ten point six starters brace.
00:26:53First of all, because you do get out of town outfits that come in Delmar for the ship and
00:26:56win program. But, you know, the regular horsemen and the same thing in New York, as I
00:27:00said, point for this meet because everybody wants to win at Delmar.
00:27:03Everybody wants to win at Saratoga because that's where the spotlight is.
00:27:07But, you know, great job by the racing department there.
00:27:09And, you know, we'll see how it goes throughout the rest of the meet.
00:27:11But I'm sure it'll be more of the same.
00:27:14OK, John, let me just let me just jump in for one more thing.
00:27:17She actually brought up a very good point, which is everyone wants to win at those
00:27:19racetracks. I know from a breeding standpoint, if you get black type at Saratoga, at
00:27:25Keeneland, at Delmar, that weighs much heavier than getting black type at other
00:27:30racetracks because people know that you really have to have your A-game on in order
00:27:35to finish first, second or third in a steak race during those tremendous meet.
00:27:39So it permeates through all aspects of the industry.
00:27:44If you win at Delmar, you win at Saratoga, you hit the board in a steak race at
00:27:48Keeneland, you know, et cetera.
00:27:49And even at the championship meet at Gulfstream, that has a great amount of weight
00:27:54when it comes to what shows up on your pedigree page when you're selling that horse
00:27:59or when you're selling progeny of that family.
00:28:01All right. So let's switch gears now and talk about the horse race and integrity and
00:28:04safety authority and act back in the news again.
00:28:07And, you know, this fight continues that the people, the sides that are anti-HISA scored
00:28:13a major victory in court this week.
00:28:15A federal judge in Louisiana granted a preliminary injunction that will halt the
00:28:20implementation of HISA in the two states that were part of the lawsuit, the plaintiffs
00:28:25in West Virginia and Louisiana.
00:28:28So and what the judge decided is that we'll have an injunction until the case is finally
00:28:35decided. The lawsuit's being brought up about whether or not it is unconstitutional or
00:28:39not will be decided in the court.
00:28:42So, you know, a win there.
00:28:44So as we speak, HISA is not in place in West Virginia and Louisiana.
00:28:49A couple of thoughts on this, but first of all, you know, I'm not a lawyer.
00:28:51I don't know. But I wonder if now other states will pick up on this and, you know, have
00:28:57the precedent of a judge saying, you know, we're going to give you an injunction.
00:29:02And there's several other states and horsemen's groups out there that have argued that
00:29:07this should be halted.
00:29:09So we'll see if it's going to hit more states.
00:29:12But John, what was your first reaction when you saw that this judge has put the brakes
00:29:17on HISA in these two states?
00:29:19Yeah, I was I was really disappointed.
00:29:21And again, as an industry, we've shown time and time again that we just can't legislate
00:29:26and govern ourselves.
00:29:28So we need to have an adult in the room to do it.
00:29:30Now, is HISA the adult in the room?
00:29:34I don't know. But I know that it is a set of rules that that have been, you know, gone
00:29:39over and certainly implemented and accepted begrudgingly, but accepted by the majority
00:29:45of the horsemen in the industry.
00:29:47But then after reading through some of the articles on here, I kind of have a better
00:29:51understanding of why Judge Doty in Louisiana issued the preliminary injunction.
00:29:59And Bill basically came down to three different circumstances.
00:30:03Number one, he said that as far as being unconstitutional, these are the three items.
00:30:07He wrote that the definition of a horse by HISA exceeds the definition of the statute.
00:30:12So basically saying that, you know, what you're what HISA, what you're saying is a
00:30:17covered animal shouldn't be a covered animal.
00:30:20And I don't know if I didn't read the 28 page summary, but I don't know if that meant
00:30:25that it has to be a horse on a covered racetrack and not on these training facilities or
00:30:31what exactly to the definition that he was concerned about.
00:30:34But that's number one. Number two, and I think this is a big deal for a lot of people,
00:30:38is that HISA has the authority to seize records of any person covered by the act.
00:30:43Now, I have spoken to other attorneys and they've told me that it's not a matter of the
00:30:47FBI knocking on the door and saying, we think you may have given a horse, a covered horse
00:30:52in illegal substance. So we're going to come in and raid your office and raid your house and
00:30:56turn it upside down. I don't think it's it gives them that kind of leverage and authority.
00:31:02But people always get worried when it comes to you can't come into my house and tell me what
00:31:06to do or look for things that I do behind my closed doors.
00:31:11And that, you know, I understand that that is a concern of of of the mass group.
00:31:16And then the third reason why he said it was unconstitutional has to do with the funding
00:31:20aspect of it, where basically he is saying that West Virginia and Louisiana, relative
00:31:26to racetrack states like California, Kentucky, New York, that their purse sizes are so much
00:31:33smaller and therefore they should pay an exceedingly smaller amount in the funding of
00:31:37HISA. And I think that that last part is is not going to be conducive to other larger
00:31:45state racing authorities because they do have higher purses and therefore, based on the
00:31:51formula, they can't really fight that that fight.
00:31:54But I really think that that it's the second part that is the concern of horsemen and
00:32:00people in general as far as they don't want to have somebody, you know, knocking on the
00:32:05door saying that they can come in and search their premises.
00:32:09And I think that the definition of the horse coverage that can be modified to to to
00:32:16appeal to everyone else. But, yeah, I was I was disappointed with the first group.
00:32:19My initial thought also, Bill, went to yours, which is our other state's going to
00:32:23copycat this and and start to ask for preliminary injunctions from their local
00:32:27establishment. And that's a concern.
00:32:30I was also a little disappointed with Eric Hamelbeck's, you know, comment on it.
00:32:37He's the CEO of the National Horsemen's Benevolent Protection Association.
00:32:41And he basically said this is further proof proof as why HISA can't work and should be
00:32:47re-evaluated. And I understand where Eric is coming from in the sense that we're all
00:32:51frustrated about the rules and how quickly they were implemented.
00:32:53And, you know, did people have a proper amount of time to have a say in what was going
00:32:57on and who was at the table making the rules?
00:33:00I understand all that.
00:33:01But if you're representing the National Horsemen's Association, which you are, this
00:33:05is an opportunity for you to come in and say.
00:33:09Instead of saying HISA sucks, maybe you say the rules are there, we have to abide by
00:33:15them, we would like to have a voice in this matter when it comes to having everything
00:33:22re-evaluated going forward.
00:33:24But instead, he framed his comment like HISA sucks and I told you so.
00:33:28And that's not a great look.
00:33:30I don't know if that was really his message, but that's what resonated with me as
00:33:33somebody who is a part of the National Horsemen's Association was that our leader,
00:33:38again, is kind of spouting out things that are anti-rules and what's best for the
00:33:43industry. I don't think that was his intention.
00:33:46I don't know. But that also disappointed me a little bit as well, because, again,
00:33:51the bottom line is we're children.
00:33:53We can't be expected to be able to rule ourselves.
00:33:59We've tried to do that and we've failed miserably.
00:34:01Right. And honestly, I don't get it.
00:34:04Really, what we're talking about here, the Horse Race Integrity and Safety Act is an
00:34:08effort on part of the industry to make, just like the words say, make horse racing
00:34:13safer and ensure that there is less cheating, that integrity is taken very, very
00:34:20seriously and not to do so by the 37 different racing commissions, but under one
00:34:27central group, which is obviously a much more sensible way to go about things.
00:34:32I don't see why anybody would be against that.
00:34:36HISA has been in place since July 1st.
00:34:38And what has it meant?
00:34:40What has it done to the industry?
00:34:41You don't notice that anything is any different.
00:34:44But the vitriol and the hysteria of these people, it's off the charts.
00:34:49This is from TD Thornton's report in the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:34:53He said all plaintiffs allege they will suffer injuries, quote, in the form of vast
00:34:57destruction of the horse racing industry, in the form of vast destruction of the horse
00:35:03racing industry through individual penalties and systematic changes to the long
00:35:07standing regulatory structure and revenue model.
00:35:10They argue that there will be financial costs so great that numerous participants
00:35:14will be driven out of the business.
00:35:17The rules are enforced.
00:35:18I mean, that's just nonsense.
00:35:19Completely not. I know, you know, that's what people do.
00:35:23They want to state their case and they don't mind, you know, if hyperbole is they
00:35:28think is going to help them.
00:35:30Come on. The vast destruction of the horse racing industry.
00:35:34Give me a break.
00:35:35As opposed to if we don't adopt these rules, we'll be fine.
00:35:38Yeah, I mean, that's the other thing we've talked about it before.
00:35:40From the Eric Hamilbacks of the world, if they're going to be so against this, I would
00:35:45like to hear them say, here's a better way of doing it.
00:35:48We don't ever hear that.
00:35:50We just say we're against this.
00:35:51So, I mean, I honestly don't get it.
00:35:54You know why? Like, you know, John, you would know better than me because you're a
00:35:57quote unquote covered person.
00:35:58I'm not. You know, maybe there are some problems here and there.
00:36:02Maybe it's inconvenient, et cetera.
00:36:04You know, some of the concerns that you brought up earlier, I think a lot of those
00:36:08have been addressed. I think some of the things people have been claiming, you know,
00:36:11the others are saying are not true.
00:36:13But, you know, at the end of the day, this is going to go through.
00:36:17Most experts say that it is constitutional.
00:36:19A couple of lawsuits have already been lost by these groups that say it's not
00:36:24constitutional. But, you know, like I said, I just don't get it.
00:36:28And I read the vast destruction of the horse station industry.
00:36:31You know, should I laugh or should I cry there?
00:36:35Yeah, it's whatever, you know, I've got a little bit of HESA headaches from the
00:36:41overload and just in all that.
00:36:43So we shall see where this goes, but not a good week for the people that are pro
00:36:48HESA. And on that side, I want to remind you that the TVN Writers Room is brought
00:36:54you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:36:56The early nominations are in for the first leg of the PHBA's two year old PA bred,
00:37:01PA sired stallion series on Monday, August 22nd.
00:37:04They have over 42 year olds nominated for the $100,000 whistle pigsteaks, five and
00:37:08a half for over 30 fillies nominated for the Miss Blue Tie Die at the same distance.
00:37:13So those two races look like they're shaping up to be some exciting contests.
00:37:16Last week, Pennsylvania bred Baron successfully took on open company to win in the
00:37:20Frank DeFrancis Memorial Dash at Laurel.
00:37:22And this horse has a really cool story behind him.
00:37:25His co-owner and breeder, Chris Viferec, I hope I'm getting that right, donates 10
00:37:29percent of Baron's earnings to a nonprofit dedicated to empowering adults on the
00:37:33autism spectrum. You can learn more things about all things Pennsylvania bred racing
00:37:38at pabred.com.
00:37:41We're going to go to a break and we come back.
00:37:43It'll be time for the Green Group guest of the week.
00:37:46The PA Horse Breeders Association introduces the Pennsylvania Stallion Series, four
00:37:51brand new races to be run at parks for PA sired, PA bred two year olds.
00:37:56There are two $100,000 contests on August 22nd, PA Day at the races.
00:38:01September 24th, PA Derby Day has two more races, each with a $200,000 purse.
00:38:07The PA Stallion Series, yet another reason why Pennsylvania is the premier place to
00:38:12breed and race. For more, please visit pabred.com.
00:38:16The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting and
00:38:19tech consulting advisory firm specializing in thoroughbred industry.
00:38:23With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you
00:38:27taxes. Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:38:32We're pleased now to welcome in Brad Cox, the man of the hour, fresh off a win by
00:38:36Cyberknife in the grade one Haskell on Saturday at Monmouth.
00:38:39Brad, congratulations.
00:38:41You had talked both before and after the race about how this is not an easy horse to
00:38:45train, that he's sort of been a horse that you've had to really roll up your sleeves and
00:38:50get to work with. Can you tell us more and, you know, could you elaborate on that?
00:38:54What makes him a little bit harder to train than some other horses you've had?
00:38:58Good morning, Bill, and thanks for having me on.
00:39:00You know, he's just been a horse that, you know, kind of when he came into us as a two
00:39:05year old, spring of his two year old season last year, just a little tough to deal with.
00:39:09The horse that tend to tend to rear up a good bit, you know, a little reluctant to go to
00:39:13the track and just do his job.
00:39:15You know, listen, there's always a couple of horses in each group that are tough to
00:39:19handle, and he definitely was one of them.
00:39:21So but, you know, as he's gotten older, he has definitely gotten better.
00:39:24There's zero doubt about that.
00:39:26We always felt like, you know, based off his works, his early works, and he was a horse
00:39:30with a tremendous amount of talent and, you know, it was just about getting him to put
00:39:35it all together. And, you know, even when he won the Arkansas Derby, we didn't really
00:39:38feel like we've seen the best of him yet.
00:39:40Obviously, I do believe the Kentucky Derby was a complete throwout.
00:39:44So, you know, he's a good he's a very good coach, obviously.
00:39:47He's a dual grade one winner.
00:39:48And, you know, I'm hopeful that he'll continue to move forward.
00:39:53And Brad, you mentioned before we did the interview that you're in a hotel room.
00:39:57Are you in California?
00:39:58Are you in New York?
00:39:59Where exactly are you?
00:40:01No, my wife, Olivia, and my son, Brody, we are our goal this summer was to make it to a
00:40:08Cubs game. So we we decided to come up for a Cubs game.
00:40:11We're actually leaving this evening and we was able to go to a Cubs game two nights ago
00:40:17and back to the ground.
00:40:19Actually, tonight we fly back tonight and then back back back at Churchill and then back
00:40:25to Saratoga actually this weekend.
00:40:26So it's kind of been jumping on a lot of planes this week.
00:40:29Yeah, sounds like it.
00:40:30And I thought you were going to say we're going to end up in California with Mandaloon.
00:40:33Talk to us a little bit about the San Diego handicap.
00:40:36And it looks like it's shaping up to be a little bit of a tough race.
00:40:40Yeah, I think solid enough, but this Colt is trained really well and leading up to the
00:40:45Stephen Foster, he trained really, really well.
00:40:48Thought about going to the Salvatore mile with him there in Jersey.
00:40:51We backed out of that with with just the way the race was coming up with hot rod.
00:40:55Charlie to turn mile, but they might get away from us a little bit.
00:40:59But, you know, we opted for the Stephen Foster.
00:41:03I thought we were a little probably a little bit too close to a hot pace coming off the
00:41:07layoff. And he obviously hooked a very, very good horse in Olympiad that we weren't quite
00:41:12ready for him, you know, off of the layoff, I should say.
00:41:15So, you know, looking forward to getting giving him another opportunity, honestly, around
00:41:21two turns and almost 60, I think, suiting very well.
00:41:25You know, this whole situation with him this summer, obviously, he was delayed getting
00:41:31back to America, but it reminds me a tremendous amount of Nick's go last year.
00:41:37He trained extremely well out of Saudi as well.
00:41:41Then we went to the map mile.
00:41:43He ended up fourth, very similar as to how Mandolin performed off the layoff as well.
00:41:49We want him back in four weeks just based off of how he was doing.
00:41:53We're doing the same thing with Mandolin.
00:41:54So hopefully it can, you know, jumpstart, you know, a great second half of the year
00:41:58for him. Speaking of Mandolin, he is your 2021 Haskell winner.
00:42:04Now you've won the race two straight years with Cyberknife, but he had to be placed
00:42:08first through disqualification.
00:42:09How much sweeter is it to have a horse actually cross the wire first?
00:42:13Or is a win a win is a win a win?
00:42:16You know, it was a big performance for Mandolin last year.
00:42:19He was battling back and we're very proud of his effort.
00:42:21But, you know, it's always obviously, you know, in the moment, it's it's it feels a
00:42:26little better to cross the wire as opposed to having to wait for Stewart's decision to
00:42:29say the least.
00:42:31Now, Brad, in 2020, you got the Eclipse Award for Outstanding Trainer, you repeated in
00:42:362021, you know, you've won all kinds of great races, you know, and I'm sure any
00:42:42trainer would love to have your resume.
00:42:44Did you have a stated goal for yourself for 2022 based on was it, you know, on win
00:42:49percentage or winning a specific race or or, you know, doing more interviews with us?
00:42:53I mean, what were your goals for 2022?
00:42:57You know, I think it's just to try to capitalize, you know, continue to get better
00:43:01each and every year. And listen, last year was a tremendous season, our Saratoga run
00:43:05there that the Travers, the Jim Dandy and the Whitney all in one summer was was a
00:43:10magical season there at Saratoga.
00:43:12And, you know, we were enjoying the Saratoga meet.
00:43:16We got off to a good start with winning the Sanford.
00:43:18But to think that we're going to have that summer again is probably not going to
00:43:22happen. We're looking forward to doing some horses, an opportunity to get to the
00:43:27Travers, such as Cyberknife, maybe Tawny Port.
00:43:29But, you know, last year was a magical year.
00:43:33Our horses perform extremely well, it seemed like in two turn dirt races.
00:43:39So that was something that, you know, we're hoping we can build off of and continue to
00:43:43move forward. But, you know, listen, I think it's just you just want to be relevant,
00:43:47just, you know, be competitive at the greatest stake level.
00:43:50And, you know, hopefully some of these horses will develop and and we can be a factor
00:43:54in the Breeders' Cup. But I guess to answer your question, you just try to increase
00:43:57your numbers every year.
00:43:59I'm not certain we can eclipse the earnings mark that we had last year, but, you know,
00:44:04we're working every day in order to try to achieve that.
00:44:07And I was interested in your answer to that.
00:44:10I was a little bit surprised because is there a point where there's too much and we
00:44:15talk about the super trainers and you certainly are into that category, you know, is
00:44:20there a point where, you know, it's counterproductive to have 300 horses or something
00:44:24like that? Or are you someone that says, you know, look, I'll take on that
00:44:28responsibility. I can always get bigger.
00:44:31I can always get better.
00:44:33Yeah, I think you got to continue to be.
00:44:36You know, I guess hungry for success or just, you know, continue to try to develop
00:44:43young horses and, you know, listen, our program, I mean, that's one thing we're trying
00:44:47to do is our young horses get them to the Breeders' Cup, you know, first cup on, you
00:44:52know, Colts, Phillies, turf, dirt, and then, you know, parlay that over to like the
00:44:57Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Oaks.
00:44:59And and that's what we've tried to set our program up for two turn dirt racing.
00:45:04And, you know, I feel like it's going really well.
00:45:07But, you know, you it's no secret.
00:45:09I mean, there's strength in numbers and that's that's the bottom line.
00:45:13You have to have a lot of horses that to to, you know, go through and evaluate.
00:45:19And it's just basically like a training camp for, you know, the NFL or wherever it may
00:45:25be basketball. You know, you have to have numbers and you have to have a lot of horses
00:45:30to go through in order to find the ones that are, you know, can make the Derby trail, the
00:45:34Oaks trail, the Breeders' Cup or wherever you're looking for.
00:45:37And, Brad, you mentioned the young horses and how they're developing when you go to a
00:45:40yearling sale. What specifically are you looking for, you know, with a yearling where
00:45:45you say that's the kind of horse that I want to train?
00:45:50Well, you know, it's tough, the sales are extremely, extremely tough, you know, for
00:45:56me, I have to have to be working with some agents in order to shortlist things and to
00:46:01narrow it down. I mean, no trainer can look at, you know, in September, five thousand
00:46:06horses, it's just not possible.
00:46:07So, you know, for me, once again, it goes back to trying to find those horses that can
00:46:12compete around two turns on the dirt.
00:46:14That's what we're looking for.
00:46:15A lot of it's based on pedigree and then, you know, the physical makeup.
00:46:19But, you know, these horses and I've learned this over the last last four or five years,
00:46:22they change a tremendous amount from their yearlings, say from September of their
00:46:29yearling season, just to like, say, January of their two year old, start their two year
00:46:34old season. And then they'll change a tremendous amount and fast forward three
00:46:38months. So they're always changing.
00:46:40And it's it's very tough to see how they're going to move forward or maybe not move
00:46:47forward. You know, you're not seeing their situations where you may not be seeing the
00:46:51horse you saw in September, say in April of his two year old season.
00:46:55But, you know, you have to start somewhere.
00:46:57And basically when we're buying these these horses as yearlings, we're looking at, you
00:47:01know, very young horses.
00:47:04And I guess I would relate it to it's probably like looking like a 12 or 13 year old kid
00:47:08hoping that they're going to be, you know, maybe even younger, maybe eight or nine.
00:47:13And you're doing a lot of your homework based on pedigree and then obviously the
00:47:17physical as well. But we really never know how they're going to go, which direction
00:47:20they're going to go. So, Brad, as you set your sights on the twenty twenty three
00:47:24Kentucky Derby, you have what is arguably right now the best two year old Colton
00:47:27training. Most strike one the Sanford by three and a half lengths.
00:47:30Just give give us your take on him and in general, your two year olds, what does as
00:47:36a group, what do they look like?
00:47:38I think we start with most strike.
00:47:40I mean, he's a nice colt.
00:47:41He came out of the tier cell and and really never missed a beat, performed very well at
00:47:47Churchill. He I've reasoned twice and both works before the Sanford were at
00:47:53Churchill and they were good moves.
00:47:55His his his last move before we shipped him up was a really, really good breeze.
00:47:59I like what I saw.
00:48:00I think he was a five ace in a minute and three gout that one.
00:48:03I thought, you know, the source deserves a shot.
00:48:05The Sanford did a good job.
00:48:07So listen, he's a very smart horse and I do that.
00:48:09Listen, I'm not going to say until he's a model horse, but I do think he's a horse
00:48:13that's going to stretch and I think he could be a factor in the hopeful overall.
00:48:17I think we've got a really good group of Colts and Phillies, probably a little more
00:48:21Colt heavy this year.
00:48:23I felt like we were a couple of years ago with the likes of the central quality in
00:48:26as well. That group seemed to be a little on the heavy with the Colts and it worked
00:48:31out well. And I kind of feel that again this year.
00:48:34I'm not going to sit here and give you a bunch of names because I honestly, honestly
00:48:38don't know right now, like the good ones from the ones that are probably just going
00:48:41to be OK. But it seems like a very, very deep group of Colts that, you know, I think
00:48:46if all goes well this fall and obviously throughout the winter and spring that, you
00:48:50know, we could hopefully have a presence in the Derby.
00:48:53Brad, we're going to I want to play a game with you that we've played with, with
00:48:57Pletcher and Asmussen and some of the top trainers that you're, it's probably
00:49:02going to be really bad at it.
00:49:03No, no, you're fine.
00:49:04You're fine. We used to call it who was better, but now we're going to call it who
00:49:08do you like training better?
00:49:09OK, so I'm going to give you I'm going to give you some names of horses that you've
00:49:12had, some established horses.
00:49:14Who do you like better between these two?
00:49:16British Idiom or Covfefe?
00:49:18Um, well, this gets in trouble with the owners, so if you know you love them all,
00:49:25you know, I'm going to go with Covfefe based off just raw speed.
00:49:31I just like that running style.
00:49:33Now, you know, if you if you ask me before I knew him, I would, you know, like a
00:49:38Philly that go two turns as well.
00:49:39But just just raw speed and performance and brilliance, I would have to go with
00:49:44Covfefe. And another thing you're talking about training.
00:49:47It's fun to watch a Philly like Covfefe train just based on how she worked.
00:49:52Her works were amazing.
00:49:53I mean, I can remember her work before the test and her work before the before the
00:49:58test at Churchill, before she went up for the race was phenomenal.
00:50:02And she worked absolutely identical at Churchill the week before she went out for
00:50:08the Breeders' Cup Billy Mayer sprint.
00:50:10So that's that's my answer there.
00:50:13All right, great. Couple couple more.
00:50:14Stay with me. Monomoy girl or she dares the devil.
00:50:18And that's that's they're both really good.
00:50:22They were both solid workhorses.
00:50:25I would say Monomoy, I tell you, she dares the devil is easier to train.
00:50:31She's very, very, very easy to train.
00:50:34She Monomoy could be maybe a touch challenging early on.
00:50:38And you may not get what you want all the time, especially if she worked by herself.
00:50:43She was tend to not do a whole lot by herself.
00:50:46But I would say definitely.
00:50:49I mean, obviously, Monomoy was was was a champion.
00:50:52But in regards to like maybe.
00:50:55It was definitely easier to try, it's definitely easier to train, she dares the devil.
00:50:59OK, last one for you, this is the big one.
00:51:02Next go for essential quality.
00:51:05I think that goes back to like maybe I mean, essential quality I had from the start.
00:51:11So that meant a lot to me.
00:51:12He was a horse that stamped himself early in his two year old season as a really good
00:51:16coach, so to see him continue on and get, you know, we obviously had him for around
00:51:20a year and a half.
00:51:23Next go, you know, accomplished a good bit before we got him or received him.
00:51:29The answer to that would be, I'm going to say, I must say essential quality
00:51:35because he was definitely easier to train.
00:51:36Mexico was very forward, would want to do maybe a little too much in his works, where
00:51:41essential was a little bit more like Monomoy girl, where, you know, to get something
00:51:45out of him of the mornings you had to put him in company and stuff.
00:51:49So I would say essential just because he was easier to train.
00:51:53Great. Those are excellent answers.
00:51:54Thanks, Brad.
00:51:56Before we let you go, let's talk about this weekend.
00:51:58We have Tony Port and Jim Dandy, obviously a very, very tough spot, especially for a
00:52:04race. It's essentially a prep for another race.
00:52:06Give us your take on how he's doing since the Ohio Derby win.
00:52:09And, you know, what are you projecting for this weekend and Jim Dandy?
00:52:13He's doing really well.
00:52:14He breezed a couple of weeks ago on the Oklahoma training track and he's well, came
00:52:19back last week, would have been a week and a half ago now, and he's really, really
00:52:25well on the main track with Arad.
00:52:27And then this past week, he breezed, he breezed well.
00:52:30I thought I've actually put him in company with Matt Araya and Matt Araya seem to be
00:52:34going maybe a little bit better of the two at the wire, to be honest.
00:52:37But, you know, I think matching up a course like him, that's a true mile and an
00:52:44eighth horse against a Philly that's more of a seven eighths of a mile Philly or one
00:52:48turn Philly, you know, probably when the greatest matchup.
00:52:51But it's what I had to it's just what I had there at Saratoga.
00:52:56And I felt like I needed to get a good work in both of them.
00:52:58And it worked out. He's a good colt.
00:53:00I think he's improving.
00:53:03I know he's improving physically.
00:53:04He looks amazing. His coat's good.
00:53:06His color's good.
00:53:08Like I said, he's moving great.
00:53:09I think he likes Saratoga.
00:53:10So, listen, I'm hoping that there's some pace presence.
00:53:14Oftentimes we don't get that in a short field, but I'm hoping that, you know, if
00:53:19there's some pace and they can, you know, those horses can work on each other early.
00:53:23You know, he's the type of horse that will definitely like the mile and eighth and
00:53:26should like the Saratoga surface.
00:53:28And hopefully it'll be a back to life.
00:53:30Brad, thanks so much for all your time.
00:53:31Congratulations again on the Haskell win.
00:53:33Good luck in the gym, Danny, this weekend.
00:53:35We'll catch up with you again soon.
00:53:37Thanks, Bill. I appreciate it.
00:53:38Talk to you soon, Bill.
00:53:40The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting
00:53:43and tax consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:53:47As this week's guest of the week, Brad Cox will receive a free one hour tax
00:53:50consultation. Learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:53:54We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
00:53:57Why do the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as
00:54:01their tax advisor? We simply save them money and know how to make them more
00:54:04successful. Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green has owned and bred some of
00:54:08the best racehorses in the history of the sport.
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00:54:38The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:55:06This week's workout of the week features Corniche.
00:55:08Remember him? The Breeders' Cup Juvenile winner working in company with stakes
00:55:12winner Provocateur going four forongs in 48.03 on Sunday at Saratoga.
00:55:16We haven't seen Corniche since his Breeders' Cup Juvenile victory last fall, but he's
00:55:20been putting in works this summer in New York for Todd Pletcher who's going to be
00:55:23running next Sunday's Grade 2 Amsterdam Stakes.
00:55:30Well, it's that time again, let's take a look at the major races going to be run
00:55:32around the country this weekend.
00:55:34And John, let's go out to California first with the San Diego, a prep, of course, for
00:55:38the Pacific Classic.
00:55:39And they've got a nice race lining up there.
00:55:41Country Grammar is coming back.
00:55:43He's 125 pound high weight.
00:55:45It'll be his first race since winning the Dubai World Cup.
00:55:48Mandaloon, last year's Kentucky Derby winner via disqualification.
00:55:51He's going in there for Brad Cox.
00:55:53There goes Harvard.
00:55:54The winner of the Hollywood Gold Cup will be in that race.
00:55:57And Express Train, the winner of the San Diego Handicap, he's in there, too.
00:56:01All these horses, if they run well, they'll be back for the Pacific Classic where
00:56:05they're going to run into Flightline.
00:56:06But I'm really interested to see what Country Grammar can do.
00:56:09I mean, he's kind of in the forgotten horse a little bit because he hasn't been seen
00:56:12on U.S. soil this year.
00:56:14But then again, he ran two great races, second in the Saudi Cup, wins the Dubai
00:56:19World Cup. Can he beat Flightline?
00:56:21I don't think so, because I don't think anybody can beat Flightline.
00:56:24But nonetheless, if he comes out of this race with a big effort, you know, he's going
00:56:28to be the talk leading up to the Pacific Classic so far as who can beat Flightline.
00:56:35And Bill, I wonder with Country Grammar, you know, you say he's the forgotten horse.
00:56:39I had forgotten that he's made almost 11 million dollars in purse earnings.
00:56:42I mean, that which is astonishing to me.
00:56:45But granted, 10 million of it was, you know, from from basically from overseas.
00:56:48But for all intents and purposes, he has been the forgotten older handicap horse.
00:56:53He ran two great races overseas.
00:56:55Both of them were much, much further than the mile 16th San Diego handicap.
00:56:59And I think that ultimately might be his downfall is the fact that this race is so much
00:57:03shorter than what he's used to running in.
00:57:06There's a couple of horses that may run in there.
00:57:08You mentioned Express Train, who won it last year.
00:57:10Mandaloon, who's just, you know, one of the most interesting hard luck colts that I've
00:57:15seen in a while. And we can talk to Brad Cox about that, you know, in today's show.
00:57:20Royal Ship, who's a Mandela horse.
00:57:22Senior Buscador, remember him?
00:57:25Mm hmm. You know, the who who was on the Derby campaign at one point, he looks like
00:57:29that he's a possible horse in the race.
00:57:32And you mentioned there goes Harvard.
00:57:34And I actually had to do a little homework on there goes Harvard because he's only run
00:57:38or hasn't run on the East Coast at all.
00:57:40But he was only off the board bill once.
00:57:44And that's when he lost his rider.
00:57:46Every other race that he's running, he's finished first, second or third in his
00:57:50career. And yet it's all been in, you know, maiden races, allowance races, kind of
00:57:55undercard stake races.
00:57:57And then he went ahead and won the gold cup earlier in the year.
00:58:01And now all of a sudden there goes Harvard is being talked about as one of the top
00:58:05horses out in California, at least.
00:58:06So it's going to be an interesting feel based on on who possibly could run in there.
00:58:12And then, oh, by the way, you know, Tripoli may run also.
00:58:15And all he's done is made nine hundred thousand dollars in purse earnings.
00:58:18So it's going to be an interesting field, to say the least.
00:58:21I think that the only thing that's going to defeat country grammar is the distance.
00:58:25But that being said, you know, he's he's a horse to watch and and certainly going to be
00:58:30entertaining racing out in California for the San Diego handicap.
00:58:34Right. So let's turn our attention to Saratoga, another big weekend, of course.
00:58:36And the highlight of the Saratoga weekend is going to be the Jim Dandy.
00:58:39And you've got right now at least four big name horses lining up for epicenter, who
00:58:46even though he didn't win one of the Triple Crown races might have been the best horse in
00:58:50the Triple Crown series early on with second place finishes in the Derby and the
00:58:53Preakness. Zanden, Bluegrass winner, third in the Kentucky Derby.
00:58:57We haven't seen him since for Chad Brown.
00:58:59He's not a bad trainer is what I hear.
00:59:01Early voting from the Chad Brown barn is coming back after winning the Preakness.
00:59:05And Brad Cox has Tawny Road in there.
00:59:08This race is going to go a long way towards shaping the picture for the Travers.
00:59:12Obviously, now Jack Christopher is not going in the Travers.
00:59:16They've already put the brakes on that.
00:59:17He's not going to go a mile and a quarter.
00:59:18So I think you're going to see this race determine who is going to be the favorite in the
00:59:23Travers. And, you know, I don't know if Tawny Road is quite up to epicenter Zanden or early
00:59:28voting. We'll find out.
00:59:29It wouldn't put anything past Brad Cox to win a big race like that.
00:59:33But, you know, I guess I mean, I haven't seen the past performances yet.
00:59:37I'm still an epicenter fan.
00:59:39I mean, I thought he ran great during the Kentucky Derby and Preakness run.
00:59:43And, you know, but then again, you know, what's wrong with Zanden and what's wrong with the
00:59:47early voting? This will really be a good race.
00:59:49It'll really help clear things up.
00:59:51And come Sunday morning or Saturday evening, we'll have a much better idea of how things
00:59:56look for the Travers.
00:59:57Yeah, and based on the probables, Bill, you mentioned those four and Ethereal Road, it
01:00:04looks like he's going to be the fifth one in this group.
01:00:07Of those horses, really early voting has the only speed in the race.
01:00:11So it could be as simple as, you know, Ortiz breaks early voting out there, slows the pace
01:00:18way down and just coasts in this nine furlong race because he literally is the only speed
01:00:23in the race. Epicenter, I agree with you.
01:00:25You know, I thought he was going to win the Derby and midway down the stretch, it looked
01:00:28like he was going to win the Derby and and he just had, you know, just because of luck
01:00:33and chance and everything like that, Rich Strike just came up on the rail and just
01:00:36barely beat him. Ethereal Road is not the same as he was earlier on.
01:00:41I don't think he's as good as some of these top three year olds, but I wouldn't say that
01:00:46he shouldn't run in the race.
01:00:47But there's others that I like better.
01:00:49And, you know, you mentioned Zanden who he's going to be a fresh horse and he's, you know,
01:00:53nine furlongs hits him right in the head.
01:00:55So if if early voting is if his stable made early voting doesn't get out there on an easy
01:01:00lead, it could set up really, really well for Zanden.
01:01:03And the only thing I'll say about Tony Port is if you look at his past performances really
01:01:07closely, he ran two of his best numbers with Lasix, so he will not be able to run a Lasix
01:01:13in the Jim Dandy.
01:01:15I'm not saying he needs to have Lasix in order to perform well, but his best performances
01:01:20are when he's on Lasix.
01:01:23Saturday's card at Saratoga will also feature the Alfred Vanderbilt.
01:01:27Both of us, John, we've kind of looked up online to see if we could get a feel for who's
01:01:31going to be in this race. We weren't lucky enough to find that out, but you have the
01:01:36headliner, you have a horse is going to be an obvious favorite and obviously odds on
01:01:40favorite is Jackie's warrior.
01:01:42And not that, you know, he couldn't win anywhere, but boy, does this horse love Saratoga.
01:01:47He's four for four at Saratoga, including what I still think was the best performance of
01:01:51his career when he beat Life is Good last year in the Alan Jerkins.
01:01:54So, you know, I assume it'll be a short field.
01:01:58You know, we might be looking at one.
01:01:59Unfortunately, it's become fairly commonplace, a five or four horse field with a huge odds
01:02:04on favorite. But nonetheless, you know, anytime Jackie's warrior steps on the racetrack,
01:02:08that's a big deal.
01:02:09Yeah, and Bill, I don't even think we're going to get five or six.
01:02:11I think it's going to be it's going to be Jackie's warrior, maybe a local horse.
01:02:16And of course, Uriah St.
01:02:17Louis is going to have a horse in there just to try to get third place.
01:02:20But I don't know if, put it this way, we have nice sprinters in our stable and we
01:02:27wouldn't run any of them as Jackie's warrior because you know you're running for second
01:02:30place at rest. So it is a really, really going to be interesting car to have Jackie's
01:02:35warrior and kind of everybody else.
01:02:37And it almost doesn't matter if Jackie warrior breaks on top, breaks second, breaks
01:02:42last. He is such the class of this field as far as, you know, who the probables are that
01:02:50I think I would just not even bet on the race and just watch it because he is one of
01:02:53those generational horses, generational sprinters that you just have to appreciate.
01:02:58And as a fan of racing, you just have to enjoy watching him run.
01:03:02Yeah, getting a little ahead of ourself.
01:03:04But if we're lucky enough to see Jackie's warrior versus Jack Christopher in the
01:03:07Breeders' Cup sprint, which I assume is where we know Jackie's warrior is pointing
01:03:11there, I would assume that's where Jack Christopher would wind up.
01:03:13Boy, is that going to be a race now?
01:03:15Sunday at Saratoga, the Amsterdam is coming up.
01:03:18Not normally a race.
01:03:19It's a big deal. But we have to mention this year because we just showed the XBTV
01:03:24work out of Cornish, who's I mean, talk about a mystery horse, hasn't run since the
01:03:29Breeders' Cup juvenile where he completed his two year old campaign undefeated that
01:03:33the two year old champion of 2021 for Bob Baffert.
01:03:37He's been moved to the Todd Pletcher barn in part because Baffert is not allowed to
01:03:42run in Saratoga. But, you know, without seeing the past performances yet and not really
01:03:46knowing who's in there, I got to take a stand against this horse, John, because it was
01:03:50interesting when when we started talking to the connections, finding out why Cornish
01:03:56had missed all this time and was not in any of the Triple Crown, perhaps was not in any
01:04:01of the Triple Crown races.
01:04:02You know, they didn't say, oh, he had a chip removed from the knee or something like
01:04:05that. They basically said we weren't real happy with how he was doing and we didn't
01:04:10want to bring him back until we knew he was really razor sharp.
01:04:13That's a little bit of a red flag for me.
01:04:15You know, obviously, they must think that he's doing better now or else he probably
01:04:19would still be on the shelf.
01:04:20But the whole explanation of his absence, having been away that long.
01:04:25And then the other thing, too, is I shouldn't have thought of doing the statistics, but
01:04:29the Breeders' Cup Juvenile has been the most anti-key race we've ever seen.
01:04:33I know I did some stats back around June or something, and not a single horse had yet
01:04:38come out of that race to win since then.
01:04:40I don't know if that's changed since then.
01:04:43But, you know, everything we've seen coming out of the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, Papa
01:04:47Cap, who was second, he hasn't won yet since then for trainer Mark Cassie.
01:04:52You know, on paper, it looks like that was a bad race.
01:04:55He'll be the favorite because he is Corniche, because he's trained by Pletcher.
01:04:59I don't know who else is going to be in there yet, but I'm not going to jump on his
01:05:02bandwagon until I see him do something on their racetrack.
01:05:06And Bill, I'm sure that part of the calculus of running and managing a horse like
01:05:11Corniche is the fact that you want to keep his legacy going.
01:05:14I know that sounds silly for a three-year-old, but he was undefeated.
01:05:18He did win two grade ones as a two-year-old.
01:05:19He won the Eclipse Award as a two-year-old, and he was purchased for a million and a half
01:05:25dollars. So I think that unless the horse is 100 percent and really training well, they
01:05:32have to protect him and basically try to protect, like I said, his legacy and have him
01:05:37continue to be undefeated or at least campaign him in the easiest race as possible until
01:05:43he can step up and has to run against the older horses, because as a stallion prospect,
01:05:47the son of Quality Road is good.
01:05:49The female family is not as strong commercially, so he's really going to have to
01:05:53carry the banner for that family line.
01:05:55And when you're talking about these kind of dollars as a stallion prospect, tens of
01:06:00millions of dollars are at stake.
01:06:02I understand why they're taking their time with him.
01:06:05And also that you have to remember, too, and you mentioned it, that now he's being
01:06:07trained by a completely different trainer, by Todd Pletcher.
01:06:11And say what you want, they're both Hall of Fame trainers, but they have different
01:06:15styles of getting the horses ready.
01:06:17And I think that the powers that be that manage Corniche are taking a very, very
01:06:23critical look as to when can we get this horse 100 percent and when can we get him
01:06:27running? Because once we get him running, we want him to knock out a couple of series
01:06:31of races before the November races against the big dogs, the older horses.
01:06:36Yeah, we shall see.
01:06:36Should be an interesting rendition of the Amsterdam stakes.
01:06:40Hey, the TDN Riders Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:06:43Joining a West Point Thoroughbreds partnership can vault you into the world of instant
01:06:47camaraderie among people surrounding high class horses and stakes action for a
01:06:50fraction of the cost of trying to do it on your own.
01:06:53Learn more at WestpointTB.com.
01:06:56West Point runners had two big works over the weekend.
01:06:58Flightline, owned by West Point and others, got his first breeze in at Delmar the
01:07:02summer on Saturday, going five farongs and 59.40 in preparation for the Grade One
01:07:07Pacific Classic. And in New York, first captain went four farongs in Saratoga as he
01:07:11prepares for the Grade One Jockey Club Gold Cup on September 3rd.
01:07:15West Point kicks off their weekend of racing on Friday with B-Dog, who will take on
01:07:19Allowance Company in race seven at Ellis Park.
01:07:21Best of luck to him and all the West Point partners this weekend.
01:07:27All the thrills.
01:07:31Fraction of the bills.
01:07:33Experience the power of the partnership.
01:07:39Change your life, make new friends and compete at the highest level of Thoroughbred
01:07:43racing. West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:07:49Visit WestpointTB.com.
01:07:53Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:07:56We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:07:58We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:08:00We're always with your horse every step of the way when it comes to being at the
01:08:04sales ground, showing your horses.
01:08:06We are with your horse.
01:08:08Just driving up and down the road every day.
01:08:10There's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the
01:08:13animal, the people that come to invest in the game.
01:08:16I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can, because we do have
01:08:19the most beautiful sport in the world.
01:08:23The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodsport.
01:08:27The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:08:30If you think that 50 years of combined experience in the horse business could benefit
01:08:34your program, give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:08:36They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own.
01:08:39Last week, Mrs.
01:08:40Newshie became the latest winning Legacy graduate when she broke her maiden at Ellis
01:08:44Park. A reminder that the Keeneland November sale entry deadline is Monday, August 1st,
01:08:49less than a week away.
01:08:50Give Tommy or Wendy a shout to talk about how to get involved.
01:08:53At last year's November sale, their consignment sold 88 percent of their offerings,
01:08:57including a session topping filly by Audible.
01:09:01Well, every week we look forward to the cartoons from Remy Belac.
01:09:04They're just terrific.
01:09:05This week's cartoon, he's got a horse that's acting up and throwing his rider and doing
01:09:10all sorts of crazy thing.
01:09:11He said, hey, it's part of my new branding strategy.
01:09:14Isn't everything about branding strategy this day?
01:09:18Well, we want to thank you for tuning into the Writers Room this week.
01:09:20We also want to thank our crew.
01:09:21I want to thank John Green, Brad Cox and our staff.
01:09:25Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, Leah LaRocca, Nathan Wilkinson.
01:09:29There are editors, of course, Patty Wolf and her whole team.
01:09:32Thank you so much for putting together the Writers Room.