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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:27And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN and I also co-host the Down the Stretch radio show every
00:00:37Saturday morning on Sirius XM along with Dave Johnson.
00:00:40Hello everybody.
00:00:41I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:43As you might guess with the Breeders' Cup fast approaching, I am surrounded by stacks
00:00:49of papers.
00:00:50I know Zoe always loves that, as well as computer files everywhere, trying to do as best I
00:00:57can to prepare for the experience that my buddy Jerry Bailey calls trying to drink water
00:01:03out of a fire hose.
00:01:04It's very tough to get ready for all these horses.
00:01:07Zoe Kavlin here with Santa Anita and First Racing.
00:01:10I've just got a little red book.
00:01:12I mean, I've got everything in here.
00:01:14This is all I'm going to need.
00:01:16It's my Bible.
00:01:17I've got no Taylor Swift information unless you watched a football game the other night.
00:01:22I am going to see Paw Patrol today with my godson.
00:01:25I'm not sure you've seen that, Randy.
00:01:27Have you seen Paw Patrol?
00:01:29I'll let you know next week.
00:01:30That'll be our important thing to discuss next week.
00:01:34Okay.
00:01:35That was from Dora the Explorer, but Paw Patrol, I'm not that good.
00:01:41I'm fine.
00:01:42All right.
00:01:43I want to remind you that this week and every week we are brought to you by our good friends
00:01:47at Keeneland.
00:01:48So, last week we had a debate, sometimes rather spirited, about whether or not the Horse Racing
00:01:54Integrity and Welfare Unit is a little bit heavy handed, gone overboard in the case of
00:01:59Carrie Breon.
00:02:00Well, that case now has taken a turn.
00:02:04It looks like she is going to be exonerated, but a new story popped up in the TDN written
00:02:09by TD Thornton, which I thought personally was one of the best reported, best written
00:02:16stories that I've seen in a racing publication in a long time.
00:02:21I'm not just saying that because it was in the TDN.
00:02:24TD did a terrific job.
00:02:25It's about a fellow by the name of John Pimentel, a trainer.
00:02:28He's 68 years old, was 146 this year, and Hai Wu went and got him too, just like they
00:02:36went and got Carrie Breon.
00:02:38He got a positive for methamphetamine, and then he was also found that he was in possession
00:02:44of levothyroxine, and he is looking at three years suspension, $25,000 fine.
00:02:53Just as I would have said about Carrie Breon, my problem with this is many, but the biggest
00:03:01problem I have is that the way they're going about this, there doesn't seem to be any room
00:03:05for common sense.
00:03:07It's black, it's white.
00:03:09John Pimentel is not a cheater.
00:03:12He did not give the horse methamphetamine to try to win a race.
00:03:18The levothyroxine, he said, was something that he was using on a pony.
00:03:23This is not somebody who did anything wrong.
00:03:27This is a guy who's been around forever and has a great reputation.
00:03:31People love him, and now unless he can get some decent lawyers, which again is another
00:03:36part of the story because these things apparently are so expensive that the little guy like
00:03:41John Pimentel cannot necessarily afford this.
00:03:45He's looking at a major upheaval in his life and his career of a possible three-year suspension
00:03:51for, in my estimation, a guy who did absolutely nothing wrong.
00:03:57This is not right.
00:03:58It needs to be fixed.
00:04:00Zoe, your turn.
00:04:02Now, if I'm reading it correctly, it said that the A sample came back positive, the
00:04:08B sample came back positive.
00:04:10He's already signed something that he may or may not, maybe he shouldn't have signed
00:04:14it and he has until October the 26th, I do believe, to have a meeting with the judge
00:04:20with the FTC to see if they can get something done about this.
00:04:25I know apparently Alan Foreman is on the case, but the thing that needs to be looked into
00:04:30that I think there needs to be some money set aside for the people that do not have
00:04:34the funds to try and fight this or at least give themselves a fighting chance because
00:04:40that to me is what has happened here.
00:04:43You've got a mom and pop operation that doesn't have the funds, barely had the 7,500, barely
00:04:49had the money for the split sample.
00:04:51Something needs to be set aside to try and help these people at least defend themselves
00:04:56through sample A, sample B, and give them the knowledge to do things the right way because
00:05:03it sounds like it's been a cluster from the get-go as well as some things have been misreported.
00:05:09Some things have been written down.
00:05:11They called him Mr. Ruiz in one article, I do believe.
00:05:15Something was written.
00:05:16None of it really adds up, makes sense.
00:05:19So if this goes before a judge, maybe they're just going to talk it out and give him a pass.
00:05:23As far as the Kerry Bryant case, they came up with, I think on October the 20th, a new
00:05:29ruling that if your A sample comes up for a human drug, say it's cocaine, methamphetamine,
00:05:36or something a human can ingest as an addict, that they're not going to release any names,
00:05:43which is correct, and wait till the B sample comes back.
00:05:46I think that is partly due to the Kerry Bryant case, which is the right thing to do.
00:05:51So slowly but surely, they're finagling their way around, be it half blindfolded.
00:05:57I'm not really quite sure there's a right answer or a wrong answer right now, but the
00:06:02Kerry Bryant case, good things have come out of that, and those all got overturned.
00:06:07And now with that October 20th ruling, it looks like that human contamination is going
00:06:12to be basically taken in course, and we'll go from there.
00:06:17So I don't really know what's going to happen with the Pimentels, but I have a feeling that
00:06:22they're going to fall down on the right side of this.
00:06:24I hope so.
00:06:25I mean, you get an incredible amount of sympathy reading the story for the Pimentels.
00:06:31You pointed out things like cocaine, methamphetamine.
00:06:33I mean, there's no evidence that methamphetamine is a performance-enhancing drug in racehorses.
00:06:40And as we know, it's unfortunately very commonly used by human drug abusers, some of whom may
00:06:48or may not have been in contact with the horse in the starting gate and the test barn.
00:06:53You never know what might have happened.
00:06:55It's an unfortunate situation.
00:06:58But, you know, Bill, I'm curious, I mean, look, this is a class one drug, right?
00:07:07And they are the very most serious drugs that are tested for.
00:07:13The horse tested positive for a class one drug.
00:07:15The split sample tested positive for a class one drug.
00:07:19We don't think it was purposely given to the horse.
00:07:24If you were the czar of racing, horse test positive for a class one, what would you do?
00:07:29Just say, oh, you guys look like you're really good people.
00:07:31We're going to drop this.
00:07:32I mean, how would you handle?
00:07:35Well, OK, here's how I would handle it.
00:07:37And look, when it gets into pharmacology and what is a class one versus class two, class
00:07:41three, I mean, a lot of that is above my pay grade.
00:07:45But Randy, this is what I'm getting back to.
00:07:46My problem with Hysa is that not just in this case, but in a lot of cases, I keep coming
00:07:53back to this.
00:07:54They don't use a lot of common sense.
00:07:56And then I guess to their credit, a lot of times they've come back and said, oh, you
00:08:00know what?
00:08:01Maybe we didn't have this rule, right?
00:08:03We should change it.
00:08:04And they have done that.
00:08:06I think that they should have got these things right before they started and not, you know,
00:08:12changing the rules as they go along.
00:08:15But again, common sense, methamphetamine, cocaine, other things are used by humans and
00:08:22the humans that come in contact with horses.
00:08:25I would I would guess that in virtually 100 percent of the cases where a course gets a
00:08:31methamphetamine positive is because someone along the way was a methamphetamine user,
00:08:37handled the horse and the contaminated the horse.
00:08:41So again, is it if it is a class one drug, which is the maximum, it shouldn't be a matter
00:08:49of fact.
00:08:50I mean, I think I would go so to the extreme is that you might even now have to look at
00:08:56whether or not this is something that is not even something they should be charged with,
00:09:01period.
00:09:02I guess it would depend on the the picograms or the nanograms or whatever, because they
00:09:05all talk about what is such a small amount into the horse.
00:09:10But again, here in this country, we have a system where, you know, justice is supposed
00:09:18to be fair.
00:09:19And John Pimentel did not do anything wrong.
00:09:23Nobody in their right minds thinks John Pimentel did anything wrong.
00:09:28And now his life has been turned upside down.
00:09:31And he's looking at three year suspension from the sport, a man who's 68 years old.
00:09:36And I believe he has seven horses in his care.
00:09:39So if methamphetamine is a class one drug, it shouldn't be treated that way.
00:09:45If if and I sometimes I go back and look at the ARCI rules.
00:09:49I didn't on this one.
00:09:50But a lot of times there are a lot different the old system.
00:09:54If you had told me that that he this horse got the meth positive, he the guy definitely
00:10:00didn't do anything wrong.
00:10:01But we're going to suspend him for 10 days.
00:10:03I'd be fine with that.
00:10:05But we're not talking about 10 days, we're talking about three years.
00:10:08And I don't see how anybody can be fine with that.
00:10:10I mean, I think, you know, one of the things that that high who high could do, and as we've
00:10:16talked about before, they're sort of learning as they go along with some of these things
00:10:20and trying to correct rules that they feel like need to be corrected.
00:10:25And maybe when it's a drug of human abuse, it's not necessarily used on horses typically
00:10:32as performance enhancers.
00:10:33Maybe they can treat it a little differently.
00:10:35There was a fascinating case that is similar to this, actually, I live in Minnesota.
00:10:40It was here at Canterbury Park, about six, seven, eight years ago.
00:10:46There was a trainer very similar to the Pimentels, who had a horse over a period of horses over
00:10:51a period of three years, he only had a handful of horses in his barn, twice tested positive
00:10:57for methamphetamine.
00:10:58Mac Robertson, one of the leading trainers at Canterbury, who recently got involved with
00:11:04the high Sahaiwu controversy, he had a horse tested positive for methamphetamine.
00:11:10Subsequently, two members of the starting gate crew at Canterbury were busted for methamphetamine
00:11:20possession.
00:11:21Right.
00:11:22It went to the racing commission and went to a judge.
00:11:26But ultimately, it was determined that if it was contamination from starting a crew
00:11:33members who were handling horses on a regular basis, then you would see dozens, dozens
00:11:39of methamphetamine positives that would pop up because these starting gate crew people
00:11:44handled horses all the time.
00:11:47And but there were very, very few meth positives that were actually triggered.
00:11:54So the trainer was ruled off and no one thought that he was guilty of giving his horses methamphetamine
00:12:03but under the absolute insurer rule, he was responsible for all of his horses.
00:12:10Even though he said he tested his crew, drug tested them, he was ultimately found responsible.
00:12:16It's a tough, tough situation to try to navigate.
00:12:20Yeah.
00:12:21In the days of testing in picograms like we are now, one thing that horrifies me and I'm
00:12:26not throwing blame on any gate crew at any part of the country whatsoever is when a tongue
00:12:32tie comes loose at the gate and the gate crew puts the tongue tie back on.
00:12:37You don't know what that one particular guy may or may not have been doing.
00:12:42I mean, they should be wearing gloves as far as I'm concerned, just in case, just for that
00:12:48one bad guy that may have been doing something awful that puts the tongue tie on your horse.
00:12:55If we're testing in picograms, there's a possibility.
00:12:58I mean, it's out there.
00:13:01I want to clear one thing up.
00:13:05I had said that they got 18 months for the meth.
00:13:08I said they got three years, Pimitol got three years for the meth.
00:13:11That's not correct.
00:13:12You got 18 months for the meth positive and another 18 months for the thyroxine that was
00:13:17found on the truck.
00:13:18And Randy, I agree.
00:13:19We butted heads on this a little bit, but I do agree with this is a difficult situation.
00:13:25But at the end of the day, this isn't right.
00:13:28And this guy, for this guy to be penalized the way he has been, well, then Heise figure
00:13:34it out, figure out how to do this and come up with a better system.
00:13:39And then the other thing I said, I think I mentioned this with the Carrie Breon thing
00:13:42too, that bothers me a little bit about this.
00:13:44And, you know, you see the reports, you know, when the TDN writes this and all the people
00:13:48write in the comments, a lot of people say, well, they're just going after the little
00:13:51guy.
00:13:52They want to drive the little guy out of race.
00:13:54And that's, that's a bunch of nonsense.
00:13:57But what we're seeing out of Hywoo right now is a lot of guys that I never heard of, never
00:14:05in a million years, and some of the guys that I have heard of, never in a million years
00:14:10considered them to be cheaters.
00:14:12And then the 10, 12, 15 people in the sport that I'm relatively positive are cheating
00:14:17and caught any one of them.
00:14:19So, you know, we had hoped that when they came in on May 22nd, this would be a new day
00:14:23in horse racing.
00:14:25You know, we would get the bad guys, we would get the Jorge Navarro's and the Jason services
00:14:30of the sport.
00:14:31Okay.
00:14:32They've been at it less than what, six months or so.
00:14:36Maybe I should give them more time.
00:14:38But all I see them as getting these mom and pop outfits for, you know, drugs that just
00:14:44really aren't considered by most sensible people to be major performance enhancing elements.
00:14:51So add that all up.
00:14:53And I think they're doing a lousy job.
00:14:56We can disagree on things, but one thing that I think the three of us all agree on is that
00:15:02we hope that the Pimentels ultimately get justice here and get their jobs back.
00:15:08And it becomes as happy an ending as you could possibly have in this circumstance.
00:15:12Yeah.
00:15:13I mean, that has to be the solution, the end story.
00:15:17And hopefully two weeks from now, we'll be reporting on that and say, John Pimentel is
00:15:21back to work.
00:15:22And at the end of the day, common sense prevailed.
00:15:25But again, this is about the fourth or fifth time I've said it.
00:15:29What Heise needs to do is find a way to incorporate common sense into the rules and the way they
00:15:36go about things and realize that things aren't always black and white.
00:15:41Even though Randy Moss and I don't always agree on things.
00:15:44I think maybe as I see him smiling that he agrees on that.
00:15:52The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:55Saturday is closing day for the Keeneland Fall Meeting, featuring the Fayette Stakes
00:16:00and the Bryan Station Stakes.
00:16:02Both full fields, looks like Cherie Deveaux will have more than looks in there at nine
00:16:07to five, be the one to beat in the Bryan Station Stakes.
00:16:10Every weekend of racing this fall has produced black type updates to the Keeneland November
00:16:17catalog. Check them out at november.keeneland.com.
00:16:21And finally, start your year off right.
00:16:24We're already looking forward to next year.
00:16:27Start your year off by nominating your horses to the Keeneland January sale.
00:16:31The sale begins on Monday, January 8th.
00:16:34It will be cold.
00:16:35And the entry deadline is Wednesday, November the 1st.
00:16:39We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:16:45At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:16:53Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:17:00Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard, not for our sake, but for theirs.
00:17:09For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:17:13In this week's edition of First Things First, I spoke with a couple of Hall of Famers,
00:17:18Richard Mandela, Mike Smith, and we spoke about a very special filly.
00:17:36How was the work, Dick?
00:17:37Very nice.
00:17:39Three quarters and 12 and a little change.
00:17:41You galloped out seven furlongs and 125 and change.
00:17:44So we've got some wind in her today, and I think we're ready to go.
00:17:48How excited are you leading up to Breeders' Cup with the daughter of Beholder?
00:17:52Because you're trying to stay under the radar, but it's going to be impossible.
00:17:56Well, I don't know if exciting's the word.
00:17:58It's more stress and feeling of responsibility to get the job done.
00:18:03Does she have any similar traits to her mother?
00:18:06She can run it.
00:18:08You had the first winner with Tina Ella from Beholder.
00:18:11What kind of a feeling was it for you to actually get one of her daughters
00:18:15to the winner's circle initially?
00:18:17And she won a little steak race.
00:18:18And she did.
00:18:19It was it was very gratifying.
00:18:23And my mother passed away the day that filly was born.
00:18:27I never spoke about it before, but she's retired now.
00:18:30We can talk about it.
00:18:32But she was named after my mother.
00:18:34That had to be super special.
00:18:36I can remember seeing you in the winner's circle,
00:18:37and I was wondering why you were so emotional that day.
00:18:43Well, that's a very cool story.
00:18:45The filly's walking around the barn.
00:18:47Does she have any little quirks we should know about, Richard?
00:18:50No, she's just very sweet.
00:18:51And she's a different personality than her mother.
00:18:55Other than she will, when the time is needed, she rises to the occasion.
00:19:01Beholder had a long history with Songbird.
00:19:03Mike Smith wrote Songbird.
00:19:05What went into the decision to put Mike on her in the first place?
00:19:09Experience.
00:19:11And that's all that matters.
00:19:12All right, Mike, take take me through the work.
00:19:15It looked like you gained some company.
00:19:16Was that by design?
00:19:17Was was actually kind of hoping to.
00:19:20We didn't have nothing to work with her here.
00:19:23So I thought we'd let the first flight go off.
00:19:24And if it worked out great and if it did, and I was just
00:19:27she's pretty good workhorse on her own if you if you want her to be.
00:19:30And we were fortunate to catch a little company.
00:19:33And she went really well this morning.
00:19:36Give him about a five link test start.
00:19:37She kind of run up to him.
00:19:38I gave her a breather around the turn and headed for home.
00:19:42I let her turn over to a right lead and about the eighth pole.
00:19:44I want to see if she was there.
00:19:46And boy, she set me back in the back in the seat.
00:19:48So all systems are go.
00:19:51How cool is it for you to ride her?
00:19:53Knowing you wrote Songbird, who battled Beholder?
00:19:57I even wrote her mother once.
00:19:58I was blessed enough to read her mother once in one honor.
00:20:02Oh, yeah, it's pretty cool.
00:20:03It kind of means you've been around for a little bit, but it's pretty cool
00:20:06to see these these young ones come up and and and kind of, you know, she's
00:20:11look, she's got a big, long ways to prove before she even comes
00:20:14halfway close to her mother.
00:20:15But she's certainly on the right track.
00:20:18How much are you looking forward to Breeders' Cup this year?
00:20:20Oh, I can't wait.
00:20:21I'm really looking forward to, especially with getting the opportunity
00:20:23to ride a filly that's got the kind of talent she does.
00:20:28All goes well, man.
00:20:29The sky's the limit for.
00:20:32It's.
00:20:37Great to hear from those connections, a filly with a very, very bright future.
00:20:42Indeed, do you want to remind you that racing at Santa Anita
00:20:45does continue this weekend?
00:20:47And we will have the Pumpkin Patch and Fall Festival,
00:20:51as well as the Smorgasbord Pizza Party this Saturday.
00:20:54Who doesn't love horse racing, beer and pizza, guys?
00:20:58What about that filly, Tamara?
00:21:00She's pretty cool, isn't she?
00:21:01I'm excited about Tamara, but I'm more excited about the horse
00:21:04racing, beer and pizza.
00:21:05That sounds tremendous.
00:21:06So I might have to get on the red eye out to California.
00:21:10In other news this week, it was announced that Forte, last year's
00:21:13two year old champion and winner of the Breeders' Cup juvenile,
00:21:17has been retired and will now enter a stud career at Spencer Farm
00:21:21for a stud fee of $50,000.
00:21:24I'm absolutely surprised.
00:21:25No one, the horse had not had a workout since the Travers.
00:21:29They kept saying they were trying to make the Breeders' Cup.
00:21:32Nonetheless, he had some hoof problems and they simply ran out of time.
00:21:38Maybe if the Breeders' Cup were run three, four weeks later,
00:21:41they probably could have done it.
00:21:42So I want to hear from you guys.
00:21:44What do we make of this horse in his career?
00:21:46And he was a brilliant two year old.
00:21:50No doubt about that.
00:21:52He won the Hopeful, which is still up in the air
00:21:55because of the drug positive that day that the horse received.
00:22:00Breeders' Futurity, Breeders' Cup juvenile.
00:22:02And looked like he was going to come into this year as a huge star.
00:22:06I'm not saying he had a bad year this year.
00:22:09I mean, you don't have a bad year when you win the Fountain of Youth,
00:22:11the Florida Derby, finish second in the Belmont and win the Jim Dandy.
00:22:15But I guess the bar was set so high after last year
00:22:19that I was personally a little bit disappointed with him.
00:22:23I expected, you know, better things from him.
00:22:26Now, a lot of it was that he had some bad luck.
00:22:29He was scratched the morning of the Kentucky Derby with a hoof problem.
00:22:33Trainer Mike, excuse me, owner Mike Rapoli and trainer Todd Pletcher
00:22:36were not at all pleased by that.
00:22:38Then the horse that he beat in the Florida Derby and Fountain of Youth, Mage,
00:22:42went on to win the Kentucky Derby, which would make you think that, well,
00:22:45if he beat Mage in the two Florida races,
00:22:48why wouldn't he have beaten him in the Kentucky Derby?
00:22:50But nonetheless, you know, a very good horse.
00:22:52I'm sure he'll be very well received at Sven Thrift.
00:22:55But I guess the word is Starcross.
00:22:58He had a Starcross career.
00:23:00And I don't think his three year old campaign quite turned out
00:23:03like the connections would have hoped.
00:23:05Obvious from the start, but he was never quite the same horse.
00:23:10I mean, he had a workman like Florida Derby.
00:23:13It looked like he went all out to to get that win.
00:23:17I didn't love him going into the Kentucky Derby purely off of that effort.
00:23:22And his feet have plagued him throughout the year.
00:23:24Todd Pletcher said that he grabbed a quarter in the Travers,
00:23:27and that is what led to basically him being retired now
00:23:31because they haven't been able to get that right.
00:23:33So I think due to his foot issues, he's had problems the whole year
00:23:39because he's a champion.
00:23:40He was able to overcome them and he overcame them in the Jim Dandy.
00:23:44And he did win the Florida Derby and was second in the Belmont.
00:23:47So, I mean, he is a champion.
00:23:49He is an absolute champion.
00:23:50As a two year old, he was brilliant.
00:23:54I'm just not sure we saw the physical progression from him from two to three,
00:23:59but he had the heart of a champion and he also was plagued with foot issues.
00:24:03I actually looked up his Breeders' Cup Juvenile and I'm like,
00:24:06let's just see who exactly he beat that day.
00:24:09So he beat Cave Rock, multiple grade one winner.
00:24:13National Treasure came back to win the Preakness.
00:24:16Blazing Sevens was second in the Preakness and took down the grade one Champagne.
00:24:20Curly Jack took down the grade three Iroquois.
00:24:22Verifying second in the Bluegrass.
00:24:25He won the Indiana Derby.
00:24:27Hurricane Jay's a stakes winner.
00:24:29Congruent is a stakes winner.
00:24:30Lost Ark took down the Wet Jockey Club Derby.
00:24:34So, I mean, he's beat some good horses as a two year old and just proved his metal
00:24:40by being able to win this year when I don't think he was probably
00:24:44a hundred percent sound at any point this year.
00:24:47He was just plagued with problems.
00:24:48I'm actually really looking forward to seeing how he does at stud.
00:24:53I don't think I ever gave the horse enough credit when he beat Loggins
00:24:56in the Breeders' Futurity, I thought Loggins was the best horse.
00:25:00I was total bet against, I thought, with Forte in the Breeders' Futurity.
00:25:05I hated him going into the Kentucky Derby.
00:25:08Couldn't stand him going into the Belmont, coming off that long layoff, you know.
00:25:11But you look back on it in hindsight and you could certainly make the case
00:25:15that if he had run in the Kentucky Derby, he might have won.
00:25:18I mean, he's been three for three against Mage as far as finishing ahead of him.
00:25:22Every chance, every opportunity he's been given.
00:25:26He rallied to finish second in the Belmont to Arcangelo,
00:25:30despite the fact that he hadn't run in 10 weeks.
00:25:33The horse was clearly not a superstar horse.
00:25:36He was not a flashy horse.
00:25:38He was kind of a grinder, maybe even a bit of an overachiever.
00:25:42Had problems, you know.
00:25:45But I think he was better, certainly, than I gave him credit for.
00:25:48And he should be pretty well received, I would guess, in the stallion park.
00:25:53Yeah, and at the bottom line, seven for ten, a lifetime
00:25:57with all those six stakes wins.
00:25:58And once again, you know, the hopeful could be taken away from him.
00:26:02The way our system works, that will probably be decided about 2034
00:26:08before we get a ruling on that.
00:26:11Zoe, I'm sure you were paying close attention to the champion
00:26:15stakes over in the UK over the weekend.
00:26:18And because this is now two weeks before the Breeders' Cup,
00:26:21we don't get a whole lot of horses that want to come back and run back in two weeks.
00:26:25But King of Steel won the champion stakes with Frankie Dettori aboard.
00:26:30They have pre-entered him in the two Breeders' Cup races.
00:26:34They pre-entered him in the Classic and the Breeders' Cup Turf.
00:26:38And it would be very interesting to see what he does.
00:26:41Trainer Roger Varian has not confirmed that he will actually run in the Breeders' Cup,
00:26:45but I'd love to see this horse run in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:26:48A mile and a half might be a little bit, excuse me, a mile and a quarter
00:26:51would be right up his alley, whereas maybe the mile and a half in the turf
00:26:55will be a little bit long for him after he just won a mile and a quarter race.
00:26:58But how good is he?
00:26:59Does he belong in the Breeders' Cup?
00:27:00And if so, which race?
00:27:02He's a good horse. He's a good horse.
00:27:04He ran second in the Derby.
00:27:06He's a massive horse.
00:27:07In fact, they monikered him the nickname the police horse when he was purchased.
00:27:11He's actually planning on coming back to America.
00:27:13He was purchased from the Keeneland September sale from the Gainesway consignment.
00:27:17Alex Elliott bought him and took Keir down to look at him
00:27:20and said, this horse is just massive.
00:27:22So they gave him the time.
00:27:25Some people called him the police horse because he was so big
00:27:27and he has overcome everything.
00:27:29They said he might not like Epson because it's a tight track.
00:27:32They said he wouldn't like the heavy ground in the champion stakes.
00:27:35He didn't like the heavy ground.
00:27:37He absolutely hated it.
00:27:38I was watching it because I was glued to Champions Day
00:27:41because it was Frankie's supposedly last Champions Day won the first race.
00:27:46This horse is out the back door for most of the race.
00:27:48Absolutely climbing and jumping, jumping imaginary objects
00:27:53like he just literally hated it.
00:27:56But he won down the middle of the course like a good horse
00:28:00that he is over ground that he didn't like.
00:28:03Will he like the tight track at Santa Anita?
00:28:05Probably not. He could probably overcome it.
00:28:08I don't know if he's going to come.
00:28:10They're going to leave it up to Roger Varian, who is a conservative trainer,
00:28:13to say the least.
00:28:14I like the fact they've entered him.
00:28:16But you don't know how much it takes out of a horse to run over ground like that.
00:28:20And it was so, so testing.
00:28:23So if he comes over here, that's great.
00:28:25But if he does, I'm almost positive that they will go in the turf.
00:28:30A mile and a half downhill is no problem here at Santa Anita.
00:28:33They start off coming down the hill.
00:28:35So if he's a mile and a quarter horse, that'll help him.
00:28:38So he was the recipient of a brilliant ride by Frankie DeTore.
00:28:42And wow, what about Frankie going out on a win like that?
00:28:46That was something to watch.
00:28:48I've never seen like a scene like that at Ascot ever.
00:28:52Randy, you know, the football chants that they were singing.
00:28:55It was like being at Wembley Stadium for the FA Cup.
00:28:59I mean, it was deafening.
00:29:00Did you hear it?
00:29:02Yeah, I wish we had been there for that.
00:29:03There would have been just an electric environment to be a part of.
00:29:07So loud that before the race, Frankie kept having to shush the fans
00:29:11for fear that he would that that that the horse would be affected by it negatively.
00:29:16And then when he wins in the flying dismount, you know,
00:29:19I thought nobody believes that's going to be his final mount in England.
00:29:22I mean, come on.
00:29:23He will ride.
00:29:24Yeah, I was going to say that he'll be there next year,
00:29:28maybe for a couple of years to come.
00:29:29He'll be there.
00:29:30He'll be when Royal Ascot rolls around next year.
00:29:33You know, Frankie, Frankie will be there.
00:29:35But as far as the horse coming over here,
00:29:39I don't know Roger Varian.
00:29:41He's he's had horses that ran very well in the Breeders' Cup.
00:29:46He's had two seconds and two thirds previously in Breeders' Cup competition.
00:29:51But every one of those horses had at least five weeks
00:29:55between their last race in Europe and the Breeders' Cup race.
00:29:58Reading between the lines.
00:29:59And again, I haven't talked to Roger Varian.
00:30:02I get the impression that he doesn't really want to come,
00:30:07but it's the owner, Kiir Gerbachian,
00:30:10who is AMO Racing, who's, you know, very aggressive owner,
00:30:15very high profile owner.
00:30:17He's a huge
00:30:19football, soccer, sports agent over over in Europe.
00:30:23Some of the some of the biggest stars over there he represents.
00:30:26And at one point he lived in New York City.
00:30:30He's he's got a love for the United States.
00:30:32He's got a wing of AMO Racing that runs in the United States.
00:30:36And he would dearly love to run in the breeze, run in the Breeders' Cup before.
00:30:39He would dearly love to have this horse in the Breeders' Cup.
00:30:43So but he's going to leave it up to the trainer.
00:30:46I would kind of be surprised if he runs.
00:30:48I hope he does.
00:30:50And definitely he should run in the turf and not the classic.
00:30:55I went back and looked at this horse's pedigree.
00:30:57Three, the last two dams
00:31:00are you have run 62 times total.
00:31:03I think there's there's not even a speck of of dirt form
00:31:09in any of those horses.
00:31:10And I think it would just be another one of these cases
00:31:12where you throw them in the classic and they're beaten, you know, 28 lengths.
00:31:17But he would have a heck of a chance in the turf.
00:31:20The TDN Writer's Room, as always, brought to you by the PHBA,
00:31:23the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:31:26A couple of stakes wins by Pennsylvania breads last weekend at Aqueduct.
00:31:3090% Matty won the Carl Place stakes
00:31:35at Aqueduct and then also at Century Downs in Canada.
00:31:39A horse called Graded Coconut bred by the Brunizzini Stables
00:31:44broke his maiden in the Bird Catcher stakes.
00:31:47So a couple of Pennsylvania breads with stakes wins last weekend.
00:31:51Also, this other note here is I'm reading Wanamaker's
00:31:54currently accepting entries for the third annual Pennsylvania
00:31:57Horse Breeders Association P.A.
00:31:59Bread Sale that will take place in January.
00:32:02And again, our weekly reminder, don't forget the P.A.
00:32:06Sired P.A.
00:32:07Bread Stallion Series.
00:32:09The finale this year set for December 27th.
00:32:12The purse is now up to two hundred thousand dollars.
00:32:15Two-year-old colts, two-year-old fillies, both at a mile and 70 yards.
00:32:19Check the P.A. Bread dot com website to double
00:32:23check that your two-year-old is nominated.
00:32:24If not, you may want to shoot an email to the PHBA.
00:32:27That address is info at P.A.
00:32:30Bread dot com.
00:32:33The P.A.
00:32:33Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:32:37Six races for P.A.
00:32:39Sired P.A.
00:32:40Bread two-year-olds at parks.
00:32:41Two $100,000 contests at five and a half for lunch on August
00:32:4621st, P.A.
00:32:47Day at the races.
00:32:48September 23rd, P.A.
00:32:50Derby Day has two races at six and a half for lunch,
00:32:53both with a $150,000 purse.
00:32:56And in December, two races going long, each worth $200,000.
00:33:00For more, go to P.A.
00:33:01Bread dot com.
00:33:03The TDN Riders are brought to you by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm,
00:33:06which, of course, the sponsor every week of our fastest horse of the week segment.
00:33:10Let's talk about the sire first.
00:33:11This is right up my alley.
00:33:13The newest sire at Windstar.
00:33:15Drumroll, please.
00:33:16Two fills.
00:33:18How many times have we talked about two fills in the past year?
00:33:21I still say Arcangelo and two fills are the best three year olds
00:33:26that we have seen so far this year.
00:33:28But more about two fills.
00:33:29He was a graded stakes winner as a two year old.
00:33:31Multiple graded stakes winner as a three year old.
00:33:34He won his four stakes by a combined 26 lengths.
00:33:38The first three year old of his crop with three straight 100 plus buyer's
00:33:42speed figures, including 105s in both the Derby and the Ohio Derby on the rags.
00:33:48He got a five and a half twice that Kentucky Derby effort.
00:33:52He was the only horse who was up there on the pace, who was around
00:33:55fighting through the stretch run, wound up finishing second to Maj.
00:33:59A lot to like about two fills.
00:34:01The newest stallion at Windstar Farm.
00:34:05Now, the fastest horse of the week.
00:34:07If you're watching a Keeneland this past weekend on Saturday,
00:34:10you saw the Lexus Raven run stakes.
00:34:13And that race was won by Vava after a spirited stretch run.
00:34:18Vava wins by a half length.
00:34:19Alvastar was in that race as the four to five favorite.
00:34:23Alvastar was coming off back to back buyers of 96 and 98,
00:34:27including an eight and three quarter length win in the grade two
00:34:30prior stakes in New York.
00:34:32Alvastar turned into the stretch with a clear lead.
00:34:35But Vava ran her down with a 100 buyer's
00:34:39speed figure, our fastest horse of the week.
00:34:46TDN Riders are brought to you by the Green Group, the sponsor,
00:34:49of course, of our Green Group guest of the week.
00:34:51They are a tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
00:34:56industry and especially specializing in saving you money on your taxes.
00:35:01For more information, go to www.greenco.com.
00:35:05Welcome in now, the Green Group guest of the week.
00:35:07It happens to be Michael Banahan, the director of Bloodstock for Godolphin.
00:35:11You think Godolphin, you think Breeders' Cup, you think of a ton of success.
00:35:15They've won 16 Breeders' Cup races,
00:35:18including four last year, and Michael's been overseeing their
00:35:22small army ready to descend on Santa Anita.
00:35:26Michael, first of all, let's get a couple of news and notes out of the way.
00:35:30How many horses did you pre-enter?
00:35:32And a couple that I wasn't quite sure which race they might go in.
00:35:36Pretty mischievous.
00:35:37Which one is she going in and which one is Maj going in?
00:35:40So really, for me, I would know more about her domestic horses than I will the
00:35:47European ones, but from what I gather, Maj will go in the mile.
00:35:52I know she stretched out the last day in the Queen Elizabeth.
00:35:54But I think from what Saeed was saying,
00:35:58I think the mile, she'd be more comfortable going in the mile.
00:36:01So we'll end up probably having two in there.
00:36:04I think Charlie is going to run master of the season there as well.
00:36:07So we'll be double fisted in there.
00:36:10Looks like we'll have seven American horses, hopefully to represent us.
00:36:15And I think four from Europe will be coming over.
00:36:17It's a little bit smaller group from Europe than we had in the past.
00:36:21So, Michael, we'll be kind of skipping through some of your horses here while
00:36:25we fortunately got you.
00:36:26But one horse I want to start with is the horse that it probably is the best known
00:36:31of all the Godolphin horses, Cody's Wish, for many reasons.
00:36:35Obviously, he's a fantastic racehorse.
00:36:37And then the whole Cody Dorman story as well.
00:36:40That's captured the attention of so many people outside of the inner circle.
00:36:45I'm just curious, what's it been like to be part of the inner circle at Godolphin
00:36:51through the whole Cody's Wish saga?
00:36:53Look, it's been tremendous.
00:36:54It's an unbelievable story.
00:36:57We're so fortunate to be a small part of it, really.
00:37:00We feel like the Dorman family and they're
00:37:02such a wonderful family all along.
00:37:06And they've been so gracious about being
00:37:10involved in the horse and sort of going side by side with him.
00:37:15And it's just been so uplifting, I think,
00:37:18for lots of people that have challenging issues and probably no more than we see
00:37:24with Cody Dorman himself, and he's such an inspiration for a lot
00:37:28of people that might be having tough days.
00:37:31And, you know, you go back and you look
00:37:34at some of the clips that NBC had last year at the Breeders' Cup,
00:37:37and it'll make you feel like how fortunate you actually are.
00:37:41So, look, it's been an absolute wonderful journey.
00:37:44And we're so happy that we're a little part in that as well.
00:37:48So
00:37:51plus highlighting what a fantastic racehorse Cody, Cody's wishes himself as well.
00:37:58So to have that combination of a great story,
00:38:01uplifting story and to have a fantastic horse doing it as well has been unbelievable.
00:38:07It is a superb story, Michael.
00:38:09And the fact that they actually met each
00:38:11other when he was still a foal, when he was still a yearling,
00:38:15is just, to me, one of the best stories I think that we've had in horse racing
00:38:20in a long time. Is there a chance that we see Cody's wish,
00:38:24Cody the person, come out to Santa Anita, do you know?
00:38:27The plan is for the whole Dorman family to come out to Santa Anita
00:38:32and be part of, hopefully, a celebration.
00:38:37I think, you know,
00:38:39seeing him when he got beaten in the Whitney the last time,
00:38:42they were there up in Saratoga and they still embraced the whole experience
00:38:47of being there, the goodwill behind them.
00:38:51When they were based at the restaurant in the front of Saratoga there,
00:38:59you know, when they were going out to the paddock, people were
00:39:04giving a round of applause and cheering them when they came back in as well.
00:39:07So just, I think this even goes further than, you know, racing itself.
00:39:13And it's hit people outside the industry and just the general public.
00:39:18And I think people that haven't,
00:39:21don't have any interest in racing or are very marginal, have really cottoned
00:39:26on to this great story as well.
00:39:28And but hopefully, you know, they'll all make it out there and
00:39:32they'll be there to cheer Cody's wish on in what will be his last race, hopefully.
00:39:39How's he doing?
00:39:40By all accounts, doing super.
00:39:42Talked to Bill Mott this morning.
00:39:45He's extremely happy with him.
00:39:47Had a very good breeze on the weekend and couldn't be doing any better.
00:39:52Sound happy and healthy.
00:39:54And I think we got what we needed out of the Vosburgh and
00:39:58we're ready to roll in in Santa
00:40:01Nisa and hopefully we can duplicate what he did last year.
00:40:05Michael, I know you say that really your
00:40:07expertise in your area is the US Space Forces, but I'm sure you can speak for
00:40:12Godolphin in general and more so than perhaps any stable in the world.
00:40:17Godolphin has embraced the Breeders' Cup like no other.
00:40:21Like I said, 16 Breeders' Cup wins for last year.
00:40:26Other than the obvious, you know, the big purses and everything.
00:40:29But, you know, what is it about the Breeders' Cup that the Godolphin team has
00:40:34made it such a big part of something that it targets so heavily every year?
00:40:39Championship racing.
00:40:41That's what we're trying to do.
00:40:42It's the biggest race day at the end of the year for us.
00:40:45And if we can forge enough to get horses to compete at the Breeders' Cup,
00:40:51we know we're competing with the very best horses, not only in America,
00:40:56but across the world, and that's where we want to compete at the very top level.
00:41:01And so I think the Breeders' Cup over the last 25 years or so,
00:41:09we see that the best horses, we know by the Eclipse Award voting,
00:41:14that people pay attention to those races at the end of the year.
00:41:18And the Breeders' Cup are the collection of all the best horses in America.
00:41:23And we got such a great foreign contingent that come over as well.
00:41:28So I think that's why it's important to us.
00:41:32But like lots of races are important through the year.
00:41:34But it's the end of the year.
00:41:36It's the Super Bowl, the NBA playoffs.
00:41:40It's what it is in our sport as to win
00:41:44the Breeders' Cup races or compete in them anyway.
00:41:46So, Michael, one thing that's always fascinated me is the international battle
00:41:53for global thoroughbred domination between Godolphin and Coolmore.
00:41:58And I know it's a friendly rivalry.
00:42:00And now there's been a little crossover
00:42:03with the stallions being embraced by each side and the other.
00:42:09How much do you think
00:42:12the presence of Coolmore spurs on Godolphin and vice versa?
00:42:17Oh, I think it's the same with any
00:42:21big athletic organizations, be it humans or horses.
00:42:27The great basketball teams need their big rivals.
00:42:32We see it in college football, basketball here.
00:42:36The in-state rivals are the big games.
00:42:38So anytime you want to be a leader of whatever industry sport you're in,
00:42:45your nemesis are always going to be the ones that are going to drive you
00:42:49to hopefully higher bar set with them all the time to get those big wins.
00:42:56And I'm sure each organization, we drive each other on.
00:43:00But I don't think we just look at, you know, one other opposition.
00:43:07That's that's great out there.
00:43:09There's a great friendly rivalry, I think,
00:43:11between lots of people in the racing industry.
00:43:14And we depend a lot on who's in the race.
00:43:18We're going to be big competitors with whoever it might be,
00:43:21whether it's Coolmore, Juddmont or or, you know, Rapoli Stable or whoever it might be.
00:43:27And I think anyone that's in this industry,
00:43:32whether you're $2 better or you're competing in the Kentucky Derby,
00:43:35you're competitive and you want to win those big races.
00:43:38Talking of big races, you'll have one going forward in the classic
00:43:42by the name of Proxy, who will probably be flying under a lot of people's radars.
00:43:46Mike Stidham, a good friend of mine.
00:43:48I know you were on hand for his most recent work at Keeneland.
00:43:53Tell us about the work.
00:43:54And I'm not sure it went to plan,
00:43:56but it looked like it actually couldn't have come out better.
00:43:59Yeah, so some of these things, you can script them and
00:44:03sometimes they'll work out for you, sometimes they don't.
00:44:05But I ended up getting in with some additional company.
00:44:09We had a two year old in there to give him a lead horse to work with,
00:44:14which we were very happy to do.
00:44:15And it was we thought we had it teed up nicely.
00:44:18And suddenly we got some extra company.
00:44:21But it really actually worked out very well in the end.
00:44:25And Proxy finished strong, galloped out strong.
00:44:30Joel Rosario was very happy with him.
00:44:32Mike and Hillary were very happy with him as well.
00:44:35So Proxy, he's not the best workhorse in the world.
00:44:41He just does enough.
00:44:43Very untappet like.
00:44:45He's calm, cool and collected.
00:44:47And
00:44:49some of that's good, some of it's maybe bad,
00:44:51but he'll keep a little bit for himself and he'll just do enough.
00:44:55And great thing about having Joel Rosario in working all fall as well.
00:45:01He knows him very well.
00:45:02He's ridden him in his last few races and they have a good rapport with each other.
00:45:07And Joel knows what he needs to get out of him as well.
00:45:11And so hopefully that worked.
00:45:12We were very happy with it and hopefully the horse got a bit of confidence out of it.
00:45:16And Joel got a bit of confidence in him.
00:45:18And as you say, we probably come under the radar.
00:45:21All those, you know, three year old hotshots
00:45:24that are in there to look like the horses to be.
00:45:27If we get a good run and he's very consistent,
00:45:31we'd like to hit the winning line in a couple more of those races.
00:45:35But he's been beaten on photo finishes and two mile and a quarter races this year.
00:45:39We think the distance will suit him very well.
00:45:41So, yeah, we're we're we're we're expecting a big run out of him.
00:45:45Let me let me jump in here with a follow up real quick.
00:45:48We've talked about proxy a lot, Michael, over the last few months.
00:45:51And it seems like sometimes he takes that sort of I'll do just enough to get by
00:45:55attitude a little too far during the running of during the running of his races as well.
00:46:01He's he's he's been kind of an enigmatic at times.
00:46:05Right. I know he's been frustrating to Mike Stidham at times.
00:46:07Got the cheek pieces now.
00:46:09Where is he mentally right now, you think, going into the class?
00:46:12Look, he seems very good.
00:46:15And, you know, seeing him, you know,
00:46:18multiple times down at Keeneland over the last month,
00:46:22he, you know, was good going to go to the pole the other day.
00:46:28Looked like he was really wanting to do a little bit.
00:46:31And he's a happy horse.
00:46:34He's a great attitude about him.
00:46:36So I'd say mentally he's good.
00:46:38And just everything has to go for him, you know.
00:46:42And if he's if he's on song and he always seems like he wants to give
00:46:45the competition a little bit of a leg up, we've seen that from his three year old
00:46:49days down the fairgrounds and, you know, horses like Mandolin,
00:46:53Midnight Bourbon, whoever down there, he'd be in the race.
00:46:57And then he dropped back a little bit and you'd say, OK, well, he's gone.
00:47:00And then he come with this furious rally
00:47:02down the stretch and just miss out and say, OK,
00:47:06we're going to have something the next day.
00:47:08And I told him I wanted to mature and I tried to figure that out.
00:47:12But we saw him in Oakland this year was a good example of him being on song and
00:47:17really going well and tracking well.
00:47:20And then, you know, getting a bit of pace in a race suits him very well.
00:47:23And again, I think Joel Rosario is important.
00:47:28He understands that he maybe want to
00:47:31you know, it's like he's like the teenage boy in middle school that wants to look
00:47:37out the window halfway through class and he's not paying attention.
00:47:39And then the teacher calls on him.
00:47:41So I think Joel knows what he's like and can hopefully keep him engaged in the race.
00:47:46And he's very, very consistent.
00:47:49You know, he's only been out of money a couple of times in his races.
00:47:52And I think he'd be running, running down hard in the stretch.
00:47:57Whether, you know, he can get there or not.
00:47:59But hopefully having a little bit of pace
00:48:01in the race and staying engaged in there, we're expecting a big run from him.
00:48:05And, you know, in the Santa Anita handicap, he ran very well out there.
00:48:09And it was our testing grounds to see how he'd like to handle the track and like
00:48:13to track and seemed like that went well.
00:48:16We would have loved to have come away
00:48:17with that grade one win, but just didn't quite get there in time.
00:48:21So hopefully he'll make up for us in Saturday week.
00:48:25Mike, I apologize for asking you still another question about the foreign horses,
00:48:29but it's such a great group and I'm sure you'd have an opinion on this.
00:48:34Charlie Appleby, since 2021 in North America, 56 starters, 24 winners, 43 percent,
00:48:4223 stakes winners, 15 grade ones.
00:48:46How does he do it?
00:48:47The part of the answer, obviously, is very good horses.
00:48:50But it seems to be something more than that, that he has figured out exactly
00:48:55the right horse to bring in and exactly for what race.
00:48:59What is beyond the obvious, like I said,
00:49:02that, you know, the kind of horse flesh that he's dealing with is the answer for
00:49:07just, you know, these numbers that just pop off the page.
00:49:11Charlie is an excellent trainer and a very good horseman.
00:49:15And through his time with Godolphin, and he's been with Godolphin a long time
00:49:21before he took the mantle as the head trainer and would have
00:49:27traveled all around the world and would have seen firsthand the type of horse you
00:49:33need to bring to different destinations, whether it's America, Australia,
00:49:38continental Europe or wherever it might be, or Dubai itself.
00:49:42He understands that very well,
00:49:45understands what his horse is like and which ones will perform well
00:49:51in a pace in a race in America and on a flat track as well.
00:49:55And he has.
00:49:58And again, as you said, he they are good horses as well.
00:50:02But sometimes they look like they're
00:50:04elevated a little bit when they get to America
00:50:07in that pattern of a race and the style of a race.
00:50:10And he's just identified those horses.
00:50:13And obviously he's got plenty of them, but he's identified the right horses.
00:50:17And you don't really see him just thrown
00:50:20horses in a race and hoping that, you know, some of it will stick a little bit.
00:50:26He really.
00:50:29Deep dives into which horses he thinks
00:50:31are the appropriate horses to bring out to America that will be competitive.
00:50:34And I like like a lot of people.
00:50:38Charlie is competitive, likes to win those those races and doesn't feel like
00:50:44it's necessary just to fill races for someone else.
00:50:47And the ones he brings out, as you said, they're very, very competitive.
00:50:52But he's figured that out.
00:50:54And I think just the experiences he's had over over the years really come to fruit
00:51:01now and maybe he was able to see all that when he wasn't in the high pressure
00:51:06situation where he was the head trainer.
00:51:09And I think just garnering all that experience and information
00:51:14has led him to make really, really good decisions on which horses fit in the top
00:51:19races and especially the ones we've seen in America.
00:51:22And his record
00:51:24has been so stellar over the last couple of years from Saratoga to the Breeders'
00:51:28Cup or coming here to Keeneland or or wherever it might be in Canada as well.
00:51:33And
00:51:35so, yeah, so I think he'll he's figured out who he needs to bring for the Breeders'
00:51:40Cup and I'm sure Master of the Seas will be will be, you know,
00:51:46his run at Keeneland will give him a big chance in the mile.
00:51:52You mentioned the tough three year olds
00:51:55that you'll be going up against with Proxy and the Breeders' Cup Classic in the
00:51:59Distaff, you've got a couple of really tough older fillies and mares to have
00:52:04to deal with there with Idiomatic and Clairier.
00:52:07How do you think
00:52:09pretty mischievous in wet paint, the three year olds that you've got in there
00:52:13stack up against the older the older fillies and mares?
00:52:15Well, it's going to be very interesting.
00:52:18This is probably one of the early clashes of of the of the generations.
00:52:24And we don't really know.
00:52:26I know we did see a three year old
00:52:29winning up in New York in the Bell Dam, so that gives the three year olds a bit
00:52:33of clout and we're we're very happy.
00:52:37Brad Cox and Brendan Walsh are extremely
00:52:41happy with the way those two fillies are coming into the into the Distaff.
00:52:45And they've been they've been resolute all year long, ultra consistent.
00:52:51And, you know, wet paint, I think she's
00:52:56thrived from getting that little bit of a break since the Alabama coming in.
00:53:01She had a great workout last weekend and looks super on the gallop out.
00:53:07She's another one that I think will enjoy a bit of pace in the race.
00:53:11It looks like Idiomatic will
00:53:14want to be out there jumping on the lead.
00:53:16Looks like Bob Baffert's filly will be having a bit of pace in there as well.
00:53:20So I think it'll suit her.
00:53:22She's been consistent all year long since she's been down in Oakland in the winter
00:53:26time, pretty mischievous, you know, she's hard knocking,
00:53:32consistent filly, looks like she's getting better as the year goes on.
00:53:38We're just, you know, we're hoping and expecting a nice dry track out there.
00:53:43It seemed like, you know,
00:53:45Tyler had said that she didn't appreciate the tracking
00:53:49at parks that time.
00:53:51And I think,
00:53:53you know, Brendan has been very happy with her breezes last weekend.
00:53:57She had another very, very good work.
00:53:59So we're coming in there
00:54:02with two fillies that are doing as well as they can.
00:54:05And then we're all going to see which generation is the better group.
00:54:10But we we couldn't be more we couldn't be
00:54:12happier with our two fillies coming in there and
00:54:16nice having two different styles.
00:54:18Pretty mischievous.
00:54:19I'll just be stalking just off there.
00:54:21Wet paint will probably be coming from the back of the pack a little bit.
00:54:25So it gives us
00:54:27two shots that are complementary to each other.
00:54:30Michael, how do you decide at the beginning
00:54:33of a horse's two year old year where they're going to go?
00:54:36How do you decide the pretty mischievous is going to go to Brendan Walsh
00:54:41and what point what paint is going to go to Brad Cox?
00:54:45And proxy is going to go to Michael Stidham.
00:54:49How do you come up with do you draw names out of hand?
00:54:51All right, you go there, you go there, you go there.
00:54:53How does it work?
00:54:54Yeah, well, we sort of at least try to do so much strategically.
00:54:59And depending on what we've seen pre-training, we've got some great
00:55:04operations both in Florida and Kentucky that pre-train for us.
00:55:10And we see them multiple times through the spring down there.
00:55:15I was sort of determine which ones will suit which trainer.
00:55:19But really, it'll come down to families.
00:55:23And if Brad has a particular horse that he has trained siblings before,
00:55:29the same with Bill Mott or Mike or whoever it might be, I think it's very important
00:55:34to keep those families with those trainers that have had success with them.
00:55:39They know their idiosyncrasies a little bit about them as well.
00:55:43And I think that's worked out well.
00:55:45We try to balance it up as much as we can.
00:55:48You know, in the Breeders' Cup,
00:55:51whether all the horses get in or not, the five trainers we use in North America
00:55:55look like they'll all have an entry in there, which is fantastic.
00:55:59And it's nice to have that balance between them all.
00:56:01And it's not one trainer maybe getting them all.
00:56:03But we've been we've been lucky with that.
00:56:05But we certainly like like them to be spread out between them all and give
00:56:10everyone a fair chance and depend on what circuit they need to be on as well
00:56:13and where they're going to be able to develop them well.
00:56:16So it's a we've been lucky the last couple of years.
00:56:19That's worked out really well for us.
00:56:21Michael, you're a big fan of National Hunt
00:56:23Racing over in England and Ireland.
00:56:26Randy goes to Cheltenham.
00:56:28Give us one horse to follow.
00:56:29I know you have a top ten.
00:56:31I was talking to Hillary earlier.
00:56:32Well, Constitutional.
00:56:36I was going to say the exact same thing.
00:56:37But I'll give you a different one, Randy.
00:56:40El Fabiolo.
00:56:42Try him instead.
00:56:43El Fabiolo.
00:56:45Who trains him?
00:56:46Willie Mullins.
00:56:48Yeah, so
00:56:51Mike Stidham is a big fan of of as he might have told you.
00:56:56So not that he's he's a great National Hunt guy, but he's a massive fan of Willie
00:57:00Mullins and his what he's done over the course of the last 20 years.
00:57:05He's a Charlie Whittingham, Woody Stevens
00:57:08and everyone else wrapped into one in the jump racing.
00:57:11Is it hyperbole to say that Constitution Hill is the flight line of jump racing?
00:57:16He's a hurdler.
00:57:19OK, hurdle race.
00:57:20I don't even know the difference between
00:57:23if they jump over an obstacle, Zoe.
00:57:25I consider that jump racing.
00:57:27I don't know what the difference is.
00:57:28The little ones, the steeplechase sort of big ones.
00:57:32So I would I would think that they would probably think that
00:57:38the flight line is a Constitution Hill rather than the other way around.
00:57:42From what I've
00:57:44but yeah, look, he looks like a superstar horse.
00:57:46And
00:57:48but in all honesty, I'm all in flat mode
00:57:54breeders, because that's that's that's where I would need to think.
00:57:58I wouldn't even get my ten to follow this
00:58:00done because it'll be so far down the list.
00:58:02Yeah. Who else is in flat mode?
00:58:04Bill Finlay.
00:58:07Well, Michael, thank you so much for joining us.
00:58:09Is the Green Group guest of the week.
00:58:11Once again, Godolphin is going to bring a just army of talented horses
00:58:16into this year's Breeders' Cup, 16 Breeders' Cup wins for the Godolphin
00:58:20stable going back to the inception.
00:58:23Michael, thanks so much for your time. Best of luck.
00:58:25Got about a week and a half till the big day.
00:58:27And I'm sure those Godolphin blue
00:58:29silks will be finding the winner's circle quite often.
00:58:31Thanks very much, Bill. Appreciate it.
00:58:33So thanks, Randy.
00:58:36As this week's Green Group guest of the week, Godolphin's Michael
00:58:39Banahan will receive a free one hour tax consultation from Lynn Green and company
00:58:44at the Green Group and for more information on how the Green Group can save you money
00:58:50on your taxes, especially if you're in the horse business.
00:58:53Again, www.greenco.com.
00:58:56Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:58:58The Green Group can help.
00:59:00There's a reason the most successful
00:59:02owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisers.
00:59:06They save you money and share successful strategies.
00:59:10Over the past 40 years, the Green Group
00:59:12founder, Lynn Green, has owned and bred some of the best
00:59:16racehorses in the history of the sport, like Eclipse award winning champions
00:59:20Jaywalk and Wonderwheel. His DJ stable competes at the highest
00:59:24level and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
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00:59:57The Factor, a perennial leading sire of winners.
01:00:00He was third in the nation by winners in 2021 and 2022.
01:00:05His progeny include grade one winners Sistron and noted and quoted.
01:00:10Grade two winner Charmaine's Mia and
01:00:13millionaires bound for nowhere and factor this with dozens of six figure
01:00:18yearling sayings, he's a proven sign on the track and in the sales ring.
01:00:23The Factor standing at Lane's End.
01:00:27The Lane's End Stallion of the Week is the Factor.
01:00:30Now, we just heard Randy giving it all about the PA breds.
01:00:34The Factor was the sire of a two year old
01:00:37stakes winner this week when the PA bred grated coconut took the bird catcher
01:00:42stakes in Canada, breaking his maiden in the black type event by 12 lengths.
01:00:47Over 12 lengths.
01:00:49In fact, that moves the factor into a tie
01:00:52for second place on the list of stallions by two year old black type winners in 23
01:00:57behind the one and only Justify.
01:01:00The Factor has 15 individual two year old winners.
01:01:05He's a must breed.
01:01:06The Factor, a leading sire of war front
01:01:08standing at Lane's End for the bargain price of $10,000.
01:01:13And Bill, where was that race in Canada run?
01:01:16Century Downs.
01:01:18Century Downs.
01:01:20There you go.
01:01:21Well, an interesting race on Saturday at
01:01:23Santa Anita, the ninth race on the card, a maiden special weight race.
01:01:27And look loaded on paper.
01:01:29Bob Baffert had three horses entered in the race.
01:01:32And here were his jockeys, Ramon Vasquez, Mike Smith and Kyle Fry.
01:01:37Now, you would look at the jockey choices
01:01:40and figure that maybe in Baffert's estimation, the Fry horse was not
01:01:44necessarily the best of the bunch because he was the lowest profile jockey
01:01:48among the three that he named the horses by the name of Nysos.
01:01:52And not only did he win, he went out and won by ten and a half lengths,
01:01:57paid fourteen dollars and eighty cents.
01:01:59Now, if he had done any homework like I
01:02:01did, didn't mean I was smart enough to bet on this horse.
01:02:04Baffert has used Fry exactly one other time during his entire career.
01:02:10And that horse won and paid twenty eight dollars and sixty cents.
01:02:14So that's that sneaky jockey trainer combination.
01:02:17And I didn't realize until later, after Steve Anderson wrote a story
01:02:22in the Daily Racing Forum about Kyle Fry, that he took about two months off this
01:02:27summer right in the beginning of the Del Mar meet because he was mentally exhausted.
01:02:33I mean, mental health issues are something
01:02:35that people are much more willing to talk about in this day and age.
01:02:40And I guess he needed to just press the reset button.
01:02:44No better way to press the reset button than to come back and win on a Bob Baffert
01:02:49TDN Rising Star by Nyquist to win by ten and a half lengths.
01:02:53Will he keep them out?
01:02:54Well, that remains to be seen, but no reason to take him off right now.
01:02:58He's perfect for Bob Baffert.
01:03:00Nobody else can say that, Zoe.
01:03:02No. And it's Kyle Fry.
01:03:05Good kid. Really, really good kid.
01:03:08He's funny. He's a good rider.
01:03:10You give him the horse, he can do it.
01:03:11And he proved it the week before on Winstock, who'd had two sprint races
01:03:16to his credit, was first time stretching out.
01:03:18Bob's only instructions were just go to the lead.
01:03:20Just go fast and keep going.
01:03:22And that is exactly what he did.
01:03:24This horse, if you'd watched his replays, cannot stand dirt in his face.
01:03:29Cannot stand. Jumps up and down.
01:03:31Just hates it.
01:03:32So Kyle just sent him to the lead and he drew off and won like a good thing.
01:03:36Part of the reason he got them out.
01:03:38There's a girl at Santa Anita who comes to clock's corner.
01:03:42Her name is Kelly Gredvig.
01:03:43She's she's you know, she's 12 years old at heart.
01:03:47And she bugs Bob every time she sees him and is like, hey, Bob.
01:03:51And she's in love with Kyle.
01:03:52Kyle's a great guy.
01:03:54And she's like, hey, Bob, you got to put Kyle on a horse.
01:03:56What's wrong with Kyle?
01:03:58And she's bugged him and bugged him and bugged him.
01:04:01So the credit goes to Kelly Gredvig for getting Kyle on the first horse.
01:04:06So then we talk up. You got to pay Kelly.
01:04:08Kelly's at the races every single time we have race.
01:04:12She comes out with a dad.
01:04:13She's got shares in my racehorse and she's super passionate about the game.
01:04:17So she got that one.
01:04:19She kept bugging Bob.
01:04:20Bob's like, I'll put him on another one.
01:04:22And there you have it.
01:04:24Nysos was ready to run this summer at Del Mar.
01:04:28Things didn't go his way for whatever reason.
01:04:30He never made the races, was missed a couple of works.
01:04:34And but he's been ready for quite some time.
01:04:37And in speaking to Jimmy, he was like he
01:04:39was flying under the radar, but he's a pretty good horse.
01:04:42So I think Bob was surprised when they were going down the backside.
01:04:45I was watching and I'm like, oh, Kyle, don't do it.
01:04:48Don't go head and head with Bob's other horse.
01:04:50He'll never put you on a horse again.
01:04:52But he kept his horse way off the other one.
01:04:55And they went fast.
01:04:56And fortunately, he won.
01:04:58Bob can't take him off because he won by 10 and drew off.
01:05:02He's not an overly big son of Nyquist.
01:05:03I actually swung by the barn
01:05:05because I was more enamored by Bob's other two in the running of the race.
01:05:09I had a good look at them in the paddock and was just ignoring Nysos.
01:05:13And he looks really good.
01:05:15He bounced out of the race.
01:05:16Ninety six by a speed figure.
01:05:18It's a good story.
01:05:19And Kyle Frey is a good, good kid and a good rider.
01:05:24It's great to have somebody like Zoey
01:05:25in Southern California who's keyed in to all those little details.
01:05:29By the way, he was Glenn Fry and not Glenn Frey with the Eagles.
01:05:34But who knew there was Kyle Frey?
01:05:38Oh, you know what I think is interesting
01:05:40about this is there are a lot of gamblers out there, a lot of horse players who think
01:05:44that these horse trainers know everything about their horses, even unstarted two
01:05:49year olds, and they're probably thinking, oh, Baffert bet on this horse or the people
01:05:54associated with Bob bet on this horse at six to one.
01:05:56They knew this horse was going to run that good.
01:05:58They put Glenn, not Glenn, Kyle Frey on him to get a place.
01:06:04That's what they were doing.
01:06:05Of course, nothing could be further from the truth.
01:06:08If they if if if Baffert knew that this horse was capable of running a ninety six
01:06:13buyer speed figure and beating his other two by ten and three quarters lengths,
01:06:17I promise you the horse would not have been six to one on the board.
01:06:21Bob knows too many people in Southern California.
01:06:24But the horses looks very, very promising.
01:06:27And, you know, just another example of of how loaded the Baffert Barn is,
01:06:33not this year, but every year with these young prospects.
01:06:36And Juan Hernandez was serving a suspension over the weekend.
01:06:40Might the jockey situation have been different if he were available?
01:06:44Well, we'll find out down the road.
01:06:46But yeah, let's hope Bob keeps young Mr.
01:06:49Frey on the horse because he certainly deserves that opportunity.
01:06:53All right, Zoe, you've been our eyes and ears at Santa Anita working for XBT.
01:06:57You've been out in the mornings.
01:06:59We're hearing great things about Arabian Night.
01:07:01There's news about why to burrow.
01:07:03Give us your Zoe Cairns up close and personal
01:07:06workout report for what you've seen so far with the Breeders' Cup horses.
01:07:11Well, we'll lead off with Arabian Night.
01:07:13He was absolutely sensational yesterday morning zipping in one eleven and two.
01:07:21Now he worked on his own,
01:07:23which is unusual for Bobby likes to work his horses in company.
01:07:27And the fact he worked that easy, he's got such a lovely big fluid stride.
01:07:32He just cruised around there and galloped out in one twenty four and change.
01:07:36He has been the work of the day.
01:07:39And I was joking with Bob because he worked him seven eights because the day
01:07:43before Tamara worked seven eights and I was talking to Bob about it.
01:07:48I'm like, did you see Tamara work?
01:07:50He's like, oh, my God.
01:07:51He is that big Mandela.
01:07:53He's got balls.
01:07:54He's like, I couldn't do that to a two year old filly.
01:07:57He goes, he's old school.
01:07:59And I joked about it with Bob and Richard.
01:08:02I'm like, hey, hey, Bob, tell Richard what you said.
01:08:05So so he told him and she was terrific.
01:08:09She she caused some company and absolutely blew the doors off the company.
01:08:14And if you're she's got to be a single on anybody's ticket.
01:08:18Tamara was brilliant working the other day with Mike Smith.
01:08:22Arabian night was good.
01:08:24Claire, yeah, maybe flying under the radar for trainer Steve Asmussen.
01:08:28She worked in fifty nine and four just after the rush.
01:08:32She didn't get a perfectly clean trip.
01:08:34She has to be on your radar.
01:08:36Prince Monaco worked out the gate because Bob said he's lazy.
01:08:39He worked in one twelve out the gate speedboat beach.
01:08:44He worked out the gate on his own in one eleven.
01:08:47And he'll go forward in the sprint.
01:08:49He looked terrific.
01:08:50So there's an awful lot of horses.
01:08:53I know one that you'll be interested in, Bill, the chosen Vron,
01:08:56who's going to be off everybody's radar, the little cowbred.
01:08:59He works on the training track one on one and change.
01:09:02He's filled out, he's grown up.
01:09:04If there's any horse you're going to get a price on in the Breeders Cup,
01:09:07it will be the chosen Vron and he is not to be ignored.
01:09:11He's looked terrific.
01:09:13So what's the wider burial story?
01:09:15Why the burial?
01:09:17Ashley went out and trained this morning.
01:09:20He was on everyone's radar to see him work yesterday.
01:09:24Did not come out.
01:09:25He's had sore feet.
01:09:26Basically, it was documented the last time he missed the work that the renowned
01:09:31farrier in McKinley came out and took a good look at him.
01:09:35Apparently, everyone's saying it's his feet.
01:09:38So they're going to try and maybe see if they can get him to work on Wednesday.
01:09:43He's been training.
01:09:44He really hasn't missed anything.
01:09:45And everyone is certain it's his feet.
01:09:47So I think they're just going to take it on a day by day.
01:09:50I went by and saw him. Chip Dutrow is there.
01:09:53Rick Dutrow flew in.
01:09:55He's there.
01:09:56And he was simply saying, well, we're just going to wait and see.
01:10:00So right now it's a day by day prognosis.
01:10:04He did train this morning and he looked very good and honestly missing a few days.
01:10:08That's that's not going to throw me off of him.
01:10:10But right now, if I'm looking at these
01:10:12horses, the one that's jumping off the page of the classic has has to be
01:10:16Arabian night.
01:10:19Has to be.
01:10:22Right, you've Randy.
01:10:25You know,
01:10:27my problem with Arabian night is just the presence of Saudi Crown in there and what
01:10:31that's going to do to the pace scenario, just handicapping the race of the
01:10:36Cup Classic. But what I find interesting about it,
01:10:38I may have told the story before on the podcast, but going back four months ago or
01:10:44so, three, four months ago, it was before the Haskell.
01:10:47It was certainly, you know, before the Pacific Classic.
01:10:50I'm voting in this weekly Breeders' Cup Classic poll and I'm looking at Teba,
01:10:55right, who was second in the Breeders' Cup Classic last year at Flightline.
01:10:59And, you know, he hasn't trained in a while.
01:11:01And Bob's got defunded.
01:11:03And Bob's got, you know, several of these in the national treasure.
01:11:06So I did text Bob, I say, what's going on with Teba?
01:11:09You know, I'm doing this classic poll and I don't know whether to put him, you know,
01:11:13is even a candidate at this point to run in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:11:16And he said, well, I don't know.
01:11:18The answer was no, but he didn't tell me no.
01:11:21But he said, don't leave Arabian night out of your poll.
01:11:26And I was like, really?
01:11:27And we hadn't run since, you know, months.
01:11:30And he thought Arabian night should be in my top three classic contenders.
01:11:35Now, this is even before the Haskell.
01:11:38So, you know, I mean, Arabian night has been front and center and in Bob's mind
01:11:43as far as a Breeders' Cup Classic contender for a long time.
01:11:46And I think now we're seeing why.
01:11:48Who writes him?
01:11:50I mean, Pratt won the Pacific Classic on him.
01:11:52Would he write him?
01:11:54You're asking me a jocky question, Zoe.
01:11:56I mean, I don't know.
01:11:57You're asking me a jocky question.
01:12:02The answer to that for me is I don't care.
01:12:06I don't care who writes it because I know it's going to be a top jockey.
01:12:10And the difference between top jockey A and top jockey D to me is,
01:12:15is, you know, less than negligible.
01:12:16So I don't really care who writes it.
01:12:18But I know a lot of people do, including you, Zoe.
01:12:21And I, I don't know.
01:12:24Sorry.
01:12:25That's OK.
01:12:27The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:12:30This week's XBTV Work of the Week.
01:12:32We've talked about her a lot already, is Tamara.
01:12:35She breezed six furlongs in 112 and three and gout out in 124 and three
01:12:41under Hall of Famer Mike Smith. And if you just watch her,
01:12:44she caught some company with an unraised two-year-old colt of Mark Glatz.
01:12:49And it really helped her along.
01:12:51And Mike Smith was absolutely delighted by the work.
01:12:54She's not an overly big filly,
01:12:55but she dropped down about the eighth pole and she took off.
01:12:59That is about as good as you are going to see any horse,
01:13:02let alone a two-year-old filly, work over this track at Santa Anita.
01:13:08She will be an absolute force to be reckoned with.
01:13:11And we'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:13:33XBTV.
01:13:48All the thrills.
01:13:52Fraction of the bills.
01:13:57Experience the power of the partnership.
01:14:02Change your life.
01:14:04Make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:14:10West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:14:11the gold standard in racing partnerships, visit WestPointTV.com.
01:14:17And finally, one more bit of housekeeping,
01:14:19very important bit of housekeeping, the TD and Riders room is also brought
01:14:22to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:14:24We mentioned the fastest horse of the week,
01:14:26Vava, in her win Saturday in the Lexus Raven Run Stakes at Keeneland.
01:14:30That's West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:14:32West Point also had a feature race win
01:14:35Friday at Keeneland with a horse called Brigadier General.
01:14:39And looking forward, Giant's Game entered in the Fayette Stakes
01:14:43at Keeneland this next weekend.
01:14:45And of course, on Breeders' Cup weekend, Carson's Run.
01:14:47We talked about what a fabulous story
01:14:49Carson's Run is, very similar to Cody's Wish.
01:14:52He is pre-entered in the Breeders' Cup
01:14:54Juvenile Turf and Slider is one of about 58 horses pre-entered
01:14:58for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf Sprint.
01:15:01Those, again, are both West Point.
01:15:04And then there is this, guys, do you know where joining
01:15:07a West Point Thoroughbred partnership can vault you?
01:15:11Into the winner's circle.
01:15:12Into the winner's circle.
01:15:14And into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:15:18Camaraderie, yes.
01:15:19Camaraderie. To learn more about that, visit WestPointTV.com.
01:15:31All right, well, that's a wrap on another show.
01:15:34I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin.
01:15:36Our Green Group Guests of the Week,
01:15:38Michael Banahan from Godolphin, our editors, our co-editors,
01:15:42Katie Petruniak, excuse me, I'm demoting Katie by accident.
01:15:45Our co-producer, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca.
01:15:48And our editors, Aliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:15:51Getting close to the Breeders' Cup, it's getting exciting.
01:15:54Next week, we'll give you some handicapping opinions on the Breeders' Cup.
01:15:57For all the team here at the TDN Writers' Room Broadcast Podcast.
01:16:01Thanks for joining us. See you next week.