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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Good afternoon.
00:00:29It is 12.08 p.m. on Wednesday, April 19th in the East Coast of the United States.
00:00:35And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:00:38My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:39I'm a correspondent for the TDN.
00:00:40I also co-host the Down the Stretch radio show every Saturday on Sirius XM radio.
00:00:47And want to remind you that we are presented by Keem.
00:00:50There you go.
00:00:51Hi y'all.
00:00:52I'm Randy Moss, NBC Sports.
00:00:55Very eyebrow deep in preparation, not only for the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Oaks,
00:01:01but all of those undercard races Friday and Saturday that NBC will be televising.
00:01:07Zoe Kavlin here with First Racing and XBTV.
00:01:10If you're wondering where I am, I am not on a desert island somewhere with a pina colada
00:01:15in my hand, although sometimes I wish I was.
00:01:18I'm at the OBS April Breeze show.
00:01:21They're just going through the third set right now.
00:01:23So I'll be down here for probably at least the next week trying to find some diamonds
00:01:28in the rough.
00:01:29And there are plenty for sure.
00:01:31All right.
00:01:33Maybe we'll check in with you next week at a wrap up of the Ocala sale, the April version
00:01:37of it, Zoe.
00:01:39Let's get right to the subject matter at hand.
00:01:42The Lexington at Keeneland wasn't the most important race of the weekend so far as purse
00:01:48graded status, et cetera.
00:01:49But we've been talking for weeks upon end about the Kentucky Derby and the three-year-old
00:01:54picture.
00:01:55So let's start with this.
00:01:56A couple of storylines here.
00:01:57First, the race was won by first mission, trained by Brad Cox by a half length over
00:02:01Arabian Lion.
00:02:03He is not going in the Kentucky Derby, doesn't have enough points.
00:02:05You only get a handful of them in the Lexington, but likely will go in the Preakness, an up
00:02:11and coming horse for Brad Cox, who just broken his maiden at the fairgrounds, goes then and
00:02:15wins the Lexington over Arabian Lion.
00:02:19Disarm was third.
00:02:20He picked up enough points to get into the Kentucky Derby field for Steve Asmussen.
00:02:25He'll be one of those 40 to one shots or whatever.
00:02:28But after Rip Strike won last year, not going to count on anybody in the crazy world of
00:02:33the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:34And another storyline was the ride by Arad Ortiz.
00:02:38And if you look at the head on, it's Arad doing what Arad does.
00:02:43He's on Arabian Lion.
00:02:44He's in about the five path.
00:02:46Here comes Luis Saez with first mission up the rail.
00:02:49What does Arad do?
00:02:51He comes over abruptly, doesn't make the other horse steady or anything like that.
00:02:57But you know, it was definitely, I shouldn't say definitely, but it appears to be a case
00:03:02of aggressive race riding.
00:03:05Aggressive race riding, good race racing, dirty tactics.
00:03:07I don't know.
00:03:08Maybe Zoe Cadmo will have an opinion on that as our former jockey on the panel.
00:03:12But Randy, lots to discuss in the Lexington.
00:03:14What are some of your thoughts?
00:03:16Overly aggressive and unnecessarily aggressive on the part of Arad Ortiz.
00:03:20And we sound like a broken record talking about this.
00:03:23It happens over and over and over again.
00:03:25And it's going to keep happening unless the stewards do something about it.
00:03:28In this case, you can't really say that it was a flagrant violation of racing rules.
00:03:34He did brush up against Arabian Lion briefly, maybe at about the eighth pole or so.
00:03:40He also came over on him a bit going into the first turn.
00:03:43You can give him an excuse for that because Arabian Lion was trying to drop into the rail,
00:03:47set the pace.
00:03:48A lot of riders do that.
00:03:49But I mean, this thing's just happening over and over and over again with Arad Ortiz.
00:03:56The race was impactful.
00:03:57You mentioned first mission, probably a Preakness candidate.
00:04:00I've lost count now how many of these three-year-old prep races Brad Cox has won.
00:04:05Arabian Lion rebounded for Bob Baffert from a disappointing effort to a nice front-running
00:04:11second, almost pulled it off.
00:04:14Whether he can get a mile and 316ths in the Preakness or not, I don't know.
00:04:18This arm may be a bit disappointing.
00:04:20He lost ground from the quarter pole to the finish on the top two finishers.
00:04:25But he was dialing back in distance from a mile and 316ths of the Louisiana Derby to
00:04:31a mile and 116th of the Lexington.
00:04:34They probably had to work on him a little more to keep him close at a mile and a 16th.
00:04:38Might have impacted his closing punch.
00:04:41Their best hope for the Kentucky Derby is that he really loves a mile and a quarter.
00:04:48It's getting windy now.
00:04:49If you can hear the wind, I feel like I'm about to get in a hurricane right now sitting
00:04:53outside.
00:04:54But as far as Arad, yes, it was aggressive, but he didn't cross the line.
00:05:01And basically it was intimidation.
00:05:03Yeah, he saw the horse come through the inside.
00:05:05It was a fantastic ride by Saez who had this horse under a ride for an awful, awful long
00:05:12way.
00:05:13And he snuck up the rail because there was plenty of room.
00:05:16Arad saw him there, came down, didn't cross the line, intimidation.
00:05:21That horse didn't care.
00:05:22He's like, I'm coming through and I'm going to beat you regardless.
00:05:25So he didn't cross the line there.
00:05:28I'm fine with it because, I mean, that's what Arad does.
00:05:33I think the best horse won, Arabian Lion.
00:05:35Does he have distance limitations?
00:05:38I'm not sure.
00:05:39I think he got beat on the square, fair and square in the Lexington.
00:05:43As for disarm, you mentioned it last week, Randy, you know, he's going to knock some
00:05:48hopefuls out that are hoping to get to the Derby.
00:05:51And that's exactly what he did.
00:05:53Whether he's a factor, who knows?
00:05:55He's got Gunrunner on his side.
00:05:56That is for darn sure.
00:05:59We'll have to see how disarm does.
00:06:02You know, Asmussen, this is the one race that has eluded him.
00:06:06He thought he won it last year.
00:06:08He still, I believe, is still pinching himself that he got beat last year.
00:06:13Because at the eighth pole, he looked like he had it won with Epicenter.
00:06:17So we'll have to see what goes forward.
00:06:21So Bill, you mentioned rich stride, you know, that upset win has had impact in more ways
00:06:27than one.
00:06:28One way, of course, is that trainers with long shots are more encouraged to give it
00:06:33a chance now, whereas maybe pre-rich strike, he might have been less inclined.
00:06:37But also, Steve Asmussen was pointing out after the defeat of Epicenter last year by
00:06:44rich strike, that it now encourages trainers that have multiple horses to run as many as
00:06:52they can.
00:06:54Because if Asmussen, in hindsight, could have run another horse and excluded rich strike
00:07:01from being in the race to begin with, then that's one fewer competitor that you have
00:07:07to worry about.
00:07:08So that's also sort of an offshoot to the big upset last year.
00:07:13You know, personally, my take on it was for years, you know, why do people want to be
00:07:18a hundred to one in the Kentucky Derby?
00:07:20Why are you throwing these horses in here that seemingly have no chance?
00:07:23But it's not just rich strike.
00:07:24Mind that Bert was also just impossible to come up with as a handicapper.
00:07:29You never give him any chance whatsoever.
00:07:30So I guess the theory that everyone is doing now is just get into the race and see what
00:07:36happens.
00:07:37I guess you can't argue too much about that.
00:07:40Randy, you did a great job during the Reader's Conference.
00:07:45It's the Derby.
00:07:46Anyone that knows anything about horse racing has always heard of the Kentucky Derby.
00:07:50So if you're an owner, of course you want to go, you want to tell your friends you've
00:07:53got a horse in the Derby.
00:07:54It's like going to the Super Bowl.
00:07:56Like that is the one reason.
00:07:58This is the driving force why people put their hundred to one shots because it's the Derby.
00:08:04Any trainer in the world will tell you if they're in America, oh, have you won the Kentucky
00:08:08Derby?
00:08:09That's the only race anybody cares about that does not know horse racing.
00:08:12Okay, Randy, during the Breeders' Cup, we asked you to make up some warning lines for
00:08:17us.
00:08:18Now, we have the 20 top horses right now.
00:08:21It could change, but Randy gave us a warning line, Forte, seven to two, Tapitrice, five
00:08:27to one, Angel of Empire, six to one, Dermasotegate, six to one, Practical Move, seven to one,
00:08:33and on down the list.
00:08:34Randy, I checked your line versus some of the lines coming out in Las Vegas, and some
00:08:39of them have Forte as low as two to one.
00:08:42I think you're on the right side of this.
00:08:44Seven to two is more likely than two to one, maybe three to one, something like that, and
00:08:49the other one that you were kind of in disagreement with some of the other lines I've seen was
00:08:53Angel of Empire at six to one.
00:08:55I've seen him as high as 14 to one in some of the race books in Las Vegas, which I don't
00:09:00understand that at all, why anybody would think he's not going to be 14 to one.
00:09:05I don't know if he's going to be six, but I think he'll be closer to six than he was
00:09:0814.
00:09:09So, Randy, some of your thoughts on the warning line.
00:09:11I also saw an online race book that had Hoosier Philly 20 to one in the Kentucky Derby.
00:09:16So, you know, sometimes you've got to take those with a grain of salt that aren't really
00:09:20updated.
00:09:21No, I was going to make Forte the favorite.
00:09:26I think there's a strong possibility that he'll be the favorite, probability, but to
00:09:31me it was either do you make him three to one or do you make him seven to two.
00:09:34I don't think he's going to go as high as four to one, and I don't think he's going
00:09:37to go as low as five to two or two to one.
00:09:40So I think that's the sweet spot somewhere in there.
00:09:44After that, I could see either one of the next three or four horses becoming second
00:09:50choice in the betting.
00:09:51That's why I kind of grouped them all pretty close together.
00:09:53But again, the line was, it's an early line before the post position draw, which could
00:09:59have some impact.
00:10:00And also, as you pointed out, there may be some defections and some additions to the
00:10:05Kentucky Derby field over the next couple of weeks.
00:10:08So we'll see about that.
00:10:10It's a fun exercise.
00:10:11I like doing that every year.
00:10:12And I do it anyway.
00:10:13Zoe, you think he's right, Forte at seven to two?
00:10:17Can you book my bet right now?
00:10:19I'll take your line.
00:10:20I'll take seven to two.
00:10:22Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:23And then I'll double it up with the actual Derby pool with Angel of Empire.
00:10:28So that'll be my exactor.
00:10:30All right.
00:10:31Some other odds that Randy had.
00:10:33Kings Barnes at 15 to one, two fills at 20 to one.
00:10:36Down the list all the way to Wild on Ice down there at 80 to one.
00:10:41So he's this year's rich strike.
00:10:43What's Dermis Otagaki?
00:10:45He has Dermis Otagaki at six to one, showing a lot of confidence in the Japanese invader.
00:10:52Did you see his work this morning at Churchill?
00:10:54That was just a little snippet.
00:10:55He actually looked really good getting over the Churchill downstrip, 49 and change, his
00:11:01first leg stretcher out there.
00:11:03Randy, you should have been on that already.
00:11:05No, I should have been.
00:11:07I'll have to look it up as soon as we get off the air here.
00:11:09Yes.
00:11:10Derma.
00:11:11All right.
00:11:12So let's stay on the subject of major races from last week.
00:11:15And on Friday was the Makers Mark Mile out at Keeneland and a major upset in there.
00:11:20Che Pierre beat Modern Games.
00:11:23The final margin was three and a half lengths.
00:11:25It might have all been 30.
00:11:27I mean, Modern Games was never in the hunt, never going to win that race.
00:11:31I'm a little bit surprised that he ran second.
00:11:34I guess maybe the assumption, I think Modern Games perhaps ran his race and we got this
00:11:39freaky good performance from Che Pierre.
00:11:42Another thing worth noting, we're going to Dan Ross and Thoroughbred Daily News this
00:11:46week had a insightful story about more something we've been talking a lot about the CAW, the
00:11:51computer players and Che Pierre when they loaded into the gate was 24 to one.
00:11:57When they left the gate, he was 11 to one, crossed the wire at nine to one.
00:12:02So again, a type of major oddships.
00:12:06We see that a lot of the normal bettors, people aren't betting millions are obviously not
00:12:13happy about that. But gang, what did you think of the Makers Mark Mile?
00:12:17I was beginning to think Charlie Appleby would never lose a race.
00:12:20He also lost on Saturday at Keeneland when he ran second behind an Italian in the Jenny
00:12:24Wiley. So, hey, Charlie Appleby is human after all.
00:12:28Yeah, he most certainly is.
00:12:30And I'll start off talking about Modern Games, who looked like a different horse in the post
00:12:35parade. He looks like he's filled out and is ready for the breeding shed.
00:12:39I'm not going to say he was fat because Charlie doesn't usually run a short horse.
00:12:43But this is a different Modern Games than we saw last year.
00:12:46And it was only a few months ago he came out in a hood.
00:12:50They put the red hood on that they go down into the start, which he's never worn in the
00:12:55pre-parade before.
00:12:57So that was different. He got a little hot.
00:12:59He got a little warm.
00:13:00I'm just wondering if maybe the breeding shed is already calling him.
00:13:04I'm not quite sure.
00:13:05But that wasn't the horse that we saw that was so brilliant last year.
00:13:10He ran a good race.
00:13:11Honestly, I had my eyes on the winner, Che Pierre.
00:13:14And I couldn't even believe that he got up for second.
00:13:17Bjork had him under a ride at the three and a half pole there on the turf course.
00:13:21I'm like, there's no way he's done.
00:13:24Credit to the horse to run second, to be perfectly honest, because he made up a ton of
00:13:29ground. Maybe he did need the race.
00:13:31Looking at him physically, I'm going to go with that, that he needed the race.
00:13:35Or perhaps looking at Che Pierre, he's a five-year-old gelding.
00:13:39He's a superstar.
00:13:40He got an ideal trip under Pratt.
00:13:42Dr. Zempf, who I liked, headed him down the backside, took off.
00:13:46I think that actually helped him.
00:13:48He let the horse go.
00:13:50He relaxed.
00:13:50He got a nice half mile.
00:13:52That opening quarter was good, 23 and change for Pratt.
00:13:56And he drew off like a good thing.
00:13:58Che Pierre is the real deal of that race at Keeneland.
00:14:02And we'll have to see what Modern Games does in his next stop.
00:14:06Yeah, I think there are two truths in here that are not necessarily conflicting.
00:14:10Number one, Modern Games appeared to be a little short in his first race since the
00:14:15Breeders' Cup mile victory at Keeneland.
00:14:18And then secondly, that Che Pierre is indeed for real.
00:14:21Modern Games win his last quarter in 22 and one, which was the fastest quarter mile in
00:14:26the race.
00:14:27But there was no way he was going to be catching up to Che Pierre, who ran his last
00:14:31quarter in 22 and three.
00:14:32Well, Che Pierre is a really good horse.
00:14:35I mean, he won the first four or five starts of his career.
00:14:40I think he was five for five.
00:14:43But the first three in France for owner Roy Jackson, Roy and Gretchen Jackson, of
00:14:48course, Lyell Stable, the former owners of Barbaro, have a presence in Europe as well
00:14:52as the United States.
00:14:53So he began his career in France.
00:14:55Then he came over to the United States, had a couple of wins here, including a really
00:14:59impressive eye-catching win in the Henry Clark at Laurel.
00:15:03Then he was injured, as trainer Arno Bellicourt pointed out.
00:15:06It was a setback.
00:15:07It said it took us a while to bring him back.
00:15:10He came back at Tampa, loomed boldly at the top of the stretch in the stakes at Tampa,
00:15:14looked like he was going to win, but came up short, obviously needed that race.
00:15:18And boy, was he impressive with the stakes record mile in 133.46.
00:15:24He is a horse that is going to be reckoned with this year in the mile division if he
00:15:30can stay sound.
00:15:31He's had a lot of gaps in his race record.
00:15:34He's a five-year-old with only seven lifetime starts.
00:15:37He's had a 10-month gap when he came to the United States.
00:15:41He had a nine-and-a-half-month gap before his comeback race at Tampa.
00:15:44So he's obviously got some problems.
00:15:46But when he is right, boy, like he was Saturday, he is good.
00:15:51Yeah, Randy, I would agree with that.
00:15:52I mean, Shapiro was just a better horse, and he just thrashed Modern Games.
00:15:57And if Modern Games was not 100%, I'm sure he was 95 or 90.
00:16:01So a very impressive performance there.
00:16:03Saturday in Oakland Park, the apple blossom.
00:16:06And as a handicapper going into the Azeri, I thought Claire Eyre was a cinch.
00:16:11I didn't think Secret Oath had a prayer to beat her.
00:16:14Secret Oath not only beats her, he beats her handily.
00:16:17So OK, now I'm off the Claire Eyre bandwagon.
00:16:19I'm on the Secret Oath bandwagon.
00:16:20It's not just me.
00:16:21I mean, they made Secret Oath the heavy favorite in there.
00:16:24And totally different, you just flip the performances upside down from what you saw from the Azeri.
00:16:30I mean, Secret Oath ran great.
00:16:32We all like to see Wayne Lucas perform in these big spots.
00:16:34And could he get another grade one, another win in a huge race this year?
00:16:39Well, Claire Eyre, who, by the way, at the top of the stretch, as Secret Oath pulled away,
00:16:44you wouldn't have given any chance for her to catch this filly.
00:16:48I mean, Secret Oath was home free.
00:16:51And Claire Eyre, she just put her head down and motored through the stretch.
00:16:54An absolutely very impressive performance from her.
00:16:57I don't know why she was so much better in this race than she was in the Azeri.
00:17:01Or maybe Secret Oath wasn't quite as good, maybe a little bit of both.
00:17:05But Claire Eyre, we're still waiting on Ness to come back.
00:17:09I see that she had her first workout of 2023 just the other day.
00:17:13But for now, Claire Eyre assumes the leadership of what is a good division right now, some good fillies in there.
00:17:20Yeah, I think the logical analysis of this, looking back, is that Claire Eyre needed the race in the Azeri
00:17:28more than Secret Oath did coming off the layoff.
00:17:31Neither had run since the Breeders' Cup distaff.
00:17:33They both took steps forward in the Apple Blossom.
00:17:36Claire Eyre just took a bigger step forward.
00:17:38She also had a little more pace to run at in the Apple Blossom,
00:17:42thanks to Hot and Sultry getting out there and opening up four and a half.
00:17:47And by the way, what a great spot for Hot and Sultry to be.
00:17:50Grade one stakes place now, finishing third in a four-horse field.
00:17:54But both horses ran really well, Claire Eyre and Secret Oath.
00:17:58Claire Eyre expected to run next in the Ogden Fifths.
00:18:00Last year, Claire Eyre was second to Latruska in the Apple Blossom
00:18:05and then came back in her next start to win the Ogden Fifths.
00:18:09And while we're talking about Claire Eyre, let me just finish with this.
00:18:13Three cheers to Barbara Bankey of Stone Street Stable
00:18:16for keeping Claire Eyre in training at age five.
00:18:20It would have been so easy to retire a horse with her credentials,
00:18:24$2 million in earnings by Kirtland out of a three-time
00:18:27Grade One Stakes winner in cavorting.
00:18:30But yet Barbara chose to keep this horse racing as a five-year-old
00:18:34and horse players everywhere should be applauding that decision.
00:18:38I applaud it.
00:18:39I echo those sentiments exactly.
00:18:42Kudos to Stone Street and Barbara Bankey
00:18:45because she could well be in the breeding shed right now.
00:18:48It was a terrific race for me.
00:18:50I think the short field and the less traffic,
00:18:52she was a little bit closer than she was in her last race.
00:18:56Honestly, I didn't think they were going to pass Secret Oath,
00:18:59even at the quarter pole.
00:19:00I thought Secret Oath was home free.
00:19:04I'm like, wouldn't that be cool?
00:19:05And here he comes.
00:19:06Honestly, Joel Rosario looked like Louis Saez
00:19:09riding a bicycle from the half mile pole.
00:19:11He rode her and won the race on her.
00:19:14It really was a terrific horse race for a short field.
00:19:18And honestly, Secret Oath lost nothing in defeat.
00:19:20This is going to be a terrific matchup throughout the year.
00:19:24And this is what horse racing needs.
00:19:26They need, you know, in the days where these three-year-old
00:19:29colts go off to the breeding shed,
00:19:32these mares are keeping us around
00:19:33and they're keeping us entertained.
00:19:35Five years old and she's keeping going.
00:19:38So long may it last.
00:19:39Kudos to all of them.
00:19:40And the connections of Secret Oath as well,
00:19:42to keep her going.
00:19:43It's going to be a fantastic to watch them this year.
00:19:46Yeah, I remember Secret Oath was in the fall sales
00:19:48and they pulled her out of there
00:19:50so that she could race another year.
00:19:51Now the new owner might've, if she had sold,
00:19:53the new owner might've kept her racing, not,
00:19:55but Rob and Stacey Mitchell, the owners and breeders,
00:19:59I had her in the sale.
00:19:59I pulled her out because as Wayne Lucas said,
00:20:01they wanted more action this year.
00:20:03So you're right, Zoe, you know,
00:20:04we're not going to see too many superstar males
00:20:06come back at four and five.
00:20:07So good for the Phillies for at least giving us
00:20:10a little bit more action and letting us go
00:20:13beyond the three-year-old year.
00:20:15So blood, kudos to everybody involved.
00:20:18On for the girls.
00:20:20The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:20:23Last September, we witnessed an unprecedented energy,
00:20:27magic and momentum of the highest grossing auction
00:20:31in Keeneland history.
00:20:32And this year it all returns
00:20:34at the Keeneland September yearling sale.
00:20:37Entry deadline is May the 1st.
00:20:39Learn more at theworldsyearlingsale.com.
00:20:42We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:20:49If this place could talk,
00:20:54it would roar.
00:20:56It would say, this is a racing,
00:21:00this beating heart in the heart of horse country,
00:21:04steady and strong beneath the roar,
00:21:07reminding us why,
00:21:10for the love of the horse,
00:21:12for generations to come.
00:21:17Spicetown.
00:21:20Bunnings.
00:21:23Echotown.
00:21:27It's Echotown for Joe Palomo.
00:21:29And Echotown breaks the wave.
00:21:31And Echotown is drawing away in the stretch.
00:21:34Echotown wins the Alan Turkin stakes.
00:21:37A sire line so prolific, it repeats itself.
00:21:42Echotown.
00:21:47The TDM Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:21:50Key of Life became Motown's latest graded stakes winner
00:21:54when she won her second straight stakes on Sunday
00:21:57with a win in the grade two Beaumont stakes at Keeneland.
00:22:00That's two first crop stakes winners for Motown
00:22:04at the Keeneland meet.
00:22:05Meanwhile, Practical Joke had stakes winners
00:22:08on two continents over the weekend.
00:22:11His four-year-old Skelly won the grade three
00:22:13Count Fleet stakes at Aqueduct
00:22:15to become his newest graded stakes winner,
00:22:18while the two-year-old Richie
00:22:19became her sire's newest juvenile stakes winner on Saturday
00:22:23with a seventh length victory
00:22:25in the Classico Alberto Villa L'Atelier in Chile.
00:22:30So some of the news of the week involved Perth Paradise
00:22:33and Attracted has been in the headlines
00:22:35for a lot of the wrong reasons lately.
00:22:38The owner of Perth Paradise has reached an agreement
00:22:40with a company which is going to
00:22:43presumably develop the property.
00:22:46They say it won't happen overnight.
00:22:47There's a horseman's group in Arizona
00:22:49thought they might get at least two years more
00:22:52out of racing at Perth Paradise, maybe three years.
00:22:55There's also reports out there that Zoe's employers,
00:23:00the first racing in the Stronach Group
00:23:01might come in and buy Arizona Downs and open that up.
00:23:05But a couple of things about this.
00:23:08Normally, I'm not necessarily against
00:23:12some of these racetracks closing
00:23:14because there's too much racing in the United States.
00:23:16We need less racing, but that's more a East Coast thing.
00:23:21In the West Coast, you really only have California
00:23:24and then Perth Paradise.
00:23:25You don't have that glut of racing like we have,
00:23:28especially in the Mid-Atlantic region
00:23:29where there might be six tracks
00:23:31within 200 miles of each other running every Saturday.
00:23:35And Perth Paradise serves a purpose.
00:23:39If you can't make it on the West Coast
00:23:41with the Southern California horses,
00:23:43they need a place to go.
00:23:45Perth Paradise is sort of an outlet for those horses.
00:23:48Let's hope that there's a better ending to the story.
00:23:51Maybe Arizona Downs will come in and be a big success
00:23:54and take over where Perth Paradise fit in on the schedule.
00:23:58Normally, I've mixed feelings about this.
00:24:00I'm interested to see what Randy and Zoe think.
00:24:03But by and large, I don't think it's a good thing
00:24:05for horse racing to lose this race.
00:24:07No, I mean, the biggest issue that we see with this,
00:24:09it's sort of like the Hollywood Park syndrome
00:24:11where the land that the racetrack is on
00:24:14becomes more valuable than the owners can make
00:24:18using it as a racetrack, right?
00:24:21I mean, look at SoFi Stadium right now
00:24:23where Hollywood Park used to be.
00:24:25So that's probably what's going on in Phoenix
00:24:27with Turf Paradise.
00:24:29The current owner says he wants to spend more time
00:24:32with his grandkids.
00:24:34Hopefully the new owner, whoever it will be,
00:24:38chooses to keep it operating as a racetrack,
00:24:40but it does seem like it's a bit of a long shot.
00:24:43If they do choose to keep operating it as a racetrack,
00:24:46I hope they take care of it a little better
00:24:49than it's being taken care of right now.
00:24:52I was in Arizona for NBC
00:24:57for the 2015 Super Bowl in Glendale,
00:25:01the one where Malcolm Butler had that great interception
00:25:03for the New England Patriots
00:25:04and they beat the Seattle Seahawks.
00:25:05But Friday before the Super Bowl,
00:25:09I decided to go to Turf Paradise.
00:25:10Never been before.
00:25:11It was a rainy Friday afternoon.
00:25:12Wanted to add it to my list of racetracks that I had visited.
00:25:16I'd heard great things from friends of mine
00:25:18who said that they grew up around Turf Way,
00:25:21or excuse me, Turf Paradise.
00:25:24Thought it was a gem, thought it was beautiful.
00:25:26I ran into Al Michaels in the hotel lobby.
00:25:28He asked me where I was going.
00:25:29I told him Turf Paradise.
00:25:30Oh my God.
00:25:32You know, I went to college at the University of Arizona.
00:25:35I almost grew up in college
00:25:36going to Turf Paradise all the time.
00:25:39He said, give me a progress report when you get back.
00:25:42Tell me about Turf Paradise and how it's doing.
00:25:44And I walked into Turf Paradise
00:25:47and it was, to put it mildly, not in good shape.
00:25:54I feel for racetracks, small racetracks
00:25:58that struggle financially to make ends meet.
00:26:02This was a situation though
00:26:03where the racetrack was just simply not cared for.
00:26:08So, you know, there's only a couple hundred people
00:26:10there in the grandstand that day anyway.
00:26:13So I hope that whoever takes over Turf Paradise,
00:26:16if they choose to keep it running as a racetrack,
00:26:20pays a little bit more attention to the details
00:26:24of a racetrack, to the paint, to things like that.
00:26:27It's just the general upkeep
00:26:29because I think the racetrack deserves that.
00:26:32Randy, it's interesting you brought that up.
00:26:33And I've been to Turf Paradise.
00:26:35I don't think I've been there since 2015,
00:26:38but your scenario, that is eight years ago.
00:26:40And I doubt they put much money into the place.
00:26:42I imagine it's probably even all that much worse now.
00:26:45I mean, when I walked in and there was a Turf Paradise sign
00:26:47and half the letters were crooked
00:26:49and a couple were missing.
00:26:51And then there are, you know,
00:26:53ceiling panels missing all over the place.
00:26:57My gosh, what is going on here?
00:26:59So I walked around for about 30 minutes and left.
00:27:02I didn't want to stay any longer.
00:27:04It was very disappointing.
00:27:06And the racetrack is really pretty outside.
00:27:09You can see the infield and all that, you know.
00:27:12It deserves better.
00:27:14And if it keeps going as a racetrack,
00:27:16which I hope it does, I hope it gets better.
00:27:18Yeah, I missed the first part of your conversation.
00:27:20I got cut off for a minute.
00:27:22But as far as Turf Paradise,
00:27:26you know, Southern California, Arizona,
00:27:28they need some kind of circuit.
00:27:29So especially Northern California as well,
00:27:33a lot of horses flip and flop between that.
00:27:35We do need a circuit.
00:27:37So you would love to think
00:27:39that Turf Paradise does keep going.
00:27:42I'm not sure what's going to go on with Arizona Downs.
00:27:45You know, there's lots of mumblings
00:27:46about First Racing buying it.
00:27:48They've looked at both properties.
00:27:49That's all anybody is saying,
00:27:51according to Dan Ross's article.
00:27:54I will say one thing.
00:27:55As far as racing in the summer months,
00:27:57if you're going to race anywhere,
00:27:58you'd much rather be at Arizona Downs.
00:28:01I looked up the temperatures for this weekend.
00:28:04In Turf Paradise,
00:28:06it's going to be at least 95 degrees on Saturday.
00:28:10But if you take a look at the temperature
00:28:12of Arizona Downs,
00:28:13it's going to be about 78 degrees.
00:28:16So if you're looking for somewhere
00:28:17to have some other summertime racing,
00:28:21I mean, the weather's going to be great.
00:28:23That's a big plus.
00:28:26So we'll have to wait and see what happens.
00:28:28I, you know, and the people
00:28:31from the Stronic Group haven't said much.
00:28:33Honestly, you know,
00:28:34I'm not rooting against Arizona Downs,
00:28:36but I don't for the life of me
00:28:38understand why they would want to buy it.
00:28:39I mean, a small little racetrack
00:28:41with little handle has no slot machines,
00:28:44no casinos whatsoever.
00:28:46I mean, they're smarter people than I am,
00:28:47but I kind of don't get it.
00:28:49Like I said, I'm not rooting against them coming in
00:28:51and saving Arizona racing.
00:28:54But, you know, the days where a little track like that
00:28:56without alternative revenue streams can make it
00:28:59are, you know, long gone.
00:29:00So hopefully they, you know,
00:29:02they have a couple of tricks up their sleeve.
00:29:05So speaking of the TDN,
00:29:06Dan Ross also did another story.
00:29:09I talked earlier about the odds drops on Chez Pierre
00:29:13in the race at Keeneland in the Maker's Mark.
00:29:17And Dan had looked at the CAW,
00:29:20the computer wagering aspects in California.
00:29:23And, you know, he and the people he talked to
00:29:26kind of came to the same conclusions that I have,
00:29:30and a lot of people have,
00:29:31kind of, you know, what do you do here?
00:29:34They are, these people are betting he,
00:29:37at this recently concluded Santa Anita meet,
00:29:39one entity, Elite Turf Club,
00:29:41accounted for 22.89% of the handle.
00:29:45I'm surprised it wasn't higher than that.
00:29:47He had another statistic where the CAW wagering at Del Mar
00:29:51since 2018 is up 56.1%.
00:29:55So if you ban these guys,
00:29:57you lose millions and millions and millions in handle
00:30:01to racing can't afford.
00:30:03If you keep these guys around and they keep growing
00:30:06as they are, they become a bigger part of the handle,
00:30:08you know, that creates a monster load of problems
00:30:13for what is happening to the everyday regular players
00:30:16and how, to me,
00:30:17these guys are just cleaning everybody else out.
00:30:19But Dan had some interesting nuggets in there
00:30:23that I didn't know before.
00:30:24And one thing that racetracks are trying to do
00:30:27is kind of less even the playing field a little bit.
00:30:30And there's two things that they're doing out at Santa Anita
00:30:32that I thought were interesting.
00:30:34In the Rainbow Six, they've effectively banned them
00:30:37from being able to take down the whole pool
00:30:39on a non-jackpot day
00:30:41because they're making a bet in 40 cent intervals.
00:30:44It's a 20 cent bet.
00:30:46So if they hit it, they're gonna hit it twice
00:30:49and there's not gonna be one winner.
00:30:51The other thing they've done,
00:30:52they said is they put a 3.5% surcharge on their win bets.
00:30:57So, you know, that's gonna discourage them
00:30:59from going in the wind pool
00:31:01and where we see these huge odds drops.
00:31:03I mean, I'm fascinated by this subject.
00:31:05I wish I had the answers to it
00:31:06because it's a very difficult thing.
00:31:09And like I said before, you know,
00:31:12there's no easy answer to this,
00:31:14but I like the fact that at least in California,
00:31:17they're trying to, you know,
00:31:19kind of get a better grip on the situation
00:31:22and, you know, make it where the common guy
00:31:25at least doesn't feel like
00:31:26they're getting murdered at the windows.
00:31:28You know, where the horse goes into the gate at six to one
00:31:31and crosses the wire at five to two.
00:31:32It's a real quandary.
00:31:33I mean, the thoroughbred industry
00:31:35has sort of painted itself into a corner
00:31:37of the racing industry.
00:31:38And now, as you pointed out,
00:31:41they're in a extremely difficult situation.
00:31:45They can't really do without the revenue
00:31:47because if you take out the CAW revenue,
00:31:50it shows that the rank and file gambling on horse racing
00:31:54has dropped precipitously over the last decade or so.
00:31:58So they need that money,
00:32:00but they need to figure out a way to get that money
00:32:04without either alienating or choking off,
00:32:08draining the bankrolls of their regular customers.
00:32:12I've got no problem necessarily with the rebates.
00:32:16I mean, every business,
00:32:16I mean, look at the airline industry
00:32:19with all the frequent flyer miles.
00:32:21That's essentially rebating their best customers.
00:32:25Businesses all over the place do that.
00:32:27Starbucks does it.
00:32:28Everybody does it nowadays.
00:32:31The problem that I have though,
00:32:32is that it's, you know,
00:32:35parimutuel betting is me against you guys.
00:32:37It's competition.
00:32:39That's the definition of parimutuel betting.
00:32:41One better against another.
00:32:43And what they've done is they've given the CAWs
00:32:48access to the pools that no one else has granted.
00:32:52The computer programs, which are fine.
00:32:55I mean, if you come up with a computer program,
00:32:58you build a better mousetrap.
00:32:59Fantastic.
00:32:59Good for you, right?
00:33:00Free enterprise.
00:33:02But to allow some people direct access into the pools
00:33:06to let their computers scan all of the pools
00:33:09and make last second bets,
00:33:10and not offer that to everyone,
00:33:13to me is giving the CAW players an unfair advantage.
00:33:16As far as the late odds drops,
00:33:19you know, Naira has tried to address that,
00:33:23but that's basically just window dressing.
00:33:25I mean, I applaud Naira for doing it.
00:33:27It makes the bettors feel better
00:33:30not to see odds drops like we saw in the Lexington
00:33:33when horses go into the gate
00:33:34and then wind up going off, you know,
00:33:37way, way lower when the races run.
00:33:39But that stuff's still going on in exacted pools,
00:33:42trifecta pools, superfecta pools,
00:33:43pick three, pick four, pick five,
00:33:45even more so probably,
00:33:47because they're betting more into those pools
00:33:48than they do into the wind pools.
00:33:50Horse players just don't see it.
00:33:52So really it's just kind of window dressing
00:33:54to make people feel better
00:33:55that they don't see the late odds drops.
00:33:57The problem is a lot deeper than that,
00:33:59and I wish I had the answers,
00:34:00but something's got to be done.
00:34:02I think in between a rock and a hard place,
00:34:05honestly, you need the money coming in,
00:34:07you need the revenue.
00:34:08I don't know what the right answer to it is.
00:34:11It'll take someone a lot brighter than me
00:34:13to try and figure that out.
00:34:15Yeah, in a perfect world, Bill,
00:34:17you could sit every stakeholder in thoroughbred racing down,
00:34:20put them in a big room
00:34:21and have them hammer out a unanimous agreement
00:34:24that helps the situation.
00:34:26Does that sound like horse racing to you?
00:34:27Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:34:28Definitely sounds like horse racing.
00:34:31So we know that's not going to happen.
00:34:33Another point about this is they're like,
00:34:35like Dan has the statistic
00:34:37that they've increased their betting by 56% at Delmar.
00:34:41When do we get to a situation
00:34:42where these guys are just betting,
00:34:44they take up so much among the pools
00:34:46that they're just betting against themselves.
00:34:48And it's like, if algorithm A is better than algorithm B,
00:34:52algorithm guy A is going to knock out,
00:34:54going to make algorithm B guy go broke.
00:34:56So, you know, we're also heading to a situation
00:34:58where I think eventually some of these guys
00:35:00might go away and lose some of their revenue.
00:35:03It is a very difficult situation.
00:35:06And, you know, again,
00:35:08we're all shrugging our shoulders here.
00:35:09I don't know what to do about it,
00:35:10but it is scary that when you do the math
00:35:14and see how much their play has increased,
00:35:16how much the play from the non-computer guys has decreased,
00:35:20it shows that there's been a pretty, you know,
00:35:22steady and large exodus from the pools.
00:35:26And I don't think it's the $2 bettors.
00:35:28I think it's the guys that maybe bet,
00:35:30you know, $1,000 a race or $500 a race
00:35:32that are just, you know,
00:35:33getting their clocks cleaned by these guys.
00:35:35So, you know, we'll stay on top of this.
00:35:36Dan did a good job with that story.
00:35:38And it's always something that, you know,
00:35:41is of interest and a difficult subject
00:35:43for not only just California racing, but racing as a whole.
00:35:47So what does Zoe Cabin have in store for us this week
00:35:50on First Things First?
00:35:56Hey, handsome.
00:35:58Is he the right horse for the Derby?
00:35:59You've been there before,
00:36:00and it looks like ground is not an issue to him.
00:36:04Distance is not an issue.
00:36:06No, I was telling somebody the other day
00:36:08that he's a lot like Giacomo
00:36:10and that his mentality is very strong.
00:36:13Nothing really upsets him.
00:36:15Well, he ran a mile and a quarter
00:36:17in the Santa Lucia Derby.
00:36:18Did he not?
00:36:19He did, right?
00:36:20And the other thing I was gonna say,
00:36:21he's had a lot of adversity.
00:36:22When he first raced it, he got dirt in his face.
00:36:25Oh, he was done.
00:36:26He hated that.
00:36:27But now, subsequently, other races,
00:36:29he's taken it and he's run through it
00:36:31and he's done really well.
00:36:33How excited are you to have a sister here?
00:36:36Oh, that's really exciting, yeah.
00:36:38Yeah, we're really excited about her.
00:36:40She's a beautiful, beautiful Union Rags,
00:36:43two-year-old filly out of Winding Way.
00:36:45And we just hope for the weather to clear up a little bit
00:36:48and she can get out and we can see a little bit more of her.
00:36:54That's another thing about him,
00:36:55he's coming out of his races really well.
00:36:58He's kept his weight on
00:36:59and he's got a great hand on him.
00:37:01He's got a huge heart girth, right?
00:37:04Big chest.
00:37:05Yeah.
00:37:06Lots of lung.
00:37:14Santa Anita Park's inaugural Hollywood meet
00:37:16will run through closing day on June the 18th.
00:37:19The meet does start this coming Friday
00:37:22and it's named as an homage to the track in Englewood,
00:37:25which is now the site of SoFi Stadium.
00:37:28The Hollywood meet contains stakes races
00:37:30which began their history
00:37:31at the late great Hollywood Park.
00:37:34The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you
00:37:36by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:37:39Now for our Angel of Empire update,
00:37:42Flavian Pratt has chosen to ride Angel of Empire
00:37:45in the Kentucky Derby.
00:37:47Rather than Kings Barnes,
00:37:48who he had previously ridden to victory
00:37:51in the Louisiana Derby.
00:37:52Angel of Empire, of course,
00:37:53impressive in the Arkansas Derby.
00:37:55April 1st, went to Churchill Downs on April 4th,
00:37:59his most recent workout.
00:38:00Last Saturday, April 15th,
00:38:01a half mile in 48 and one fifth seconds at Churchill.
00:38:06Of course, Brad Cox said he was pleased with that workout.
00:38:09Now, why are we talking about Angel of Empire?
00:38:11He's a Pennsylvania bred.
00:38:13Bred by Forgotten Land Investment Inc.
00:38:16and Black Diamond Equine Corporation.
00:38:20For more about breeding in Pennsylvania,
00:38:22visit www.pabred.com.
00:38:26Here in Pennsylvania,
00:38:27we're proud of our breeding program,
00:38:29the best in North America,
00:38:31but we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:38:33The PA Horse Breeders Association
00:38:35is funding cutting edge research at PenVet
00:38:38to detect gene doping in thoroughbreds.
00:38:40And we endorsed the SAFE Act
00:38:42to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:38:45Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs
00:38:48set up by our horseman's groups.
00:38:49Just a few of the reasons why
00:38:51you should join us in Pennsylvania,
00:38:53the premier place to breed and race.
00:38:58Our Fastest Horse of the Week segment
00:38:59is brought to you by the fast stallions at Windstar Farm,
00:39:02including the stallion with breathtaking speed
00:39:05currently in his first year at stud.
00:39:08First, the honor of Fastest Horse of the Week
00:39:11goes to Skelly, the four-year-old practical Joe Gelding
00:39:14who won Oaklawn's Count Fleet Sprint Handicap
00:39:16with a buyer's speed figure of 105.
00:39:19In his stakes debut,
00:39:21Skelly defeated promising Godolphin Sprinter Strobe
00:39:24and nine to five favorite Tahano Twist.
00:39:28It was also the first graded stakes winner
00:39:30for owners Chris and Emily Hicks of Tiny Mason, Texas.
00:39:34In fact, Skelly is their only currently active racehorse.
00:39:38Chris is in the oil and gas business in West Texas.
00:39:41They have been racing horses for less than a decade
00:39:43under the name Red Lane Thoroughbred.
00:39:45Skelly is trained by Steve Asquiston,
00:39:47was ridden by Ricardo Santana,
00:39:49and is bred in Kentucky by Alan Poindexter.
00:39:53Meanwhile, Windstar is the home
00:39:55of the ultra-fast and versatile Life Is Good
00:39:58who dazzled us with his speed in 2022.
00:40:02He was never beaten to the early lead
00:40:04in his 12 lifetime starts,
00:40:05but more importantly, he carried that speed.
00:40:09His four grade one victories were all around two turns,
00:40:13one in the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile
00:40:15and the other three at a mile and an eighth
00:40:17in the Whitney, the Woodward, and the Pegasus World Cup.
00:40:20And he checks the pedigree box as well
00:40:22as a son of Into Mischief.
00:40:25Life Is Good's 112 buyer's speed figure
00:40:28in the Jan Ney Route at Belmont
00:40:29still ranks as the highest by any son or daughter
00:40:32of Into Mischief, topping authentic golden scents and gamine.
00:40:36Bob Baffert raved about him,
00:40:37Todd Pletcher raved about him,
00:40:39and you can breathe to the fast stallion,
00:40:40Life Is Good at Windstar Farm.
00:40:48The Green Group's specialty is the thoroughbred industry.
00:40:51And over the years, they've helped over 500 clients
00:40:54in the horse business save money on their taxes.
00:40:58To learn more about how the Green Group
00:41:00might be able to help you in that area,
00:41:02go to www.greenco.com.
00:41:07And welcome in now this week's Green Group guest of the week,
00:41:09Toshi Onokubo, who is the person behind
00:41:12the netkiba.com website,
00:41:15one of the very best racing journalists in Japan.
00:41:19And there's so much to talk about now, of course,
00:41:21with what's going on with the Japanese horses.
00:41:23Toshi, good morning in America,
00:41:25good evening, good night in Japan.
00:41:28Thank you for staying up late to do this with us.
00:41:3013 hours time difference, so we appreciate that.
00:41:34My first question, the Japanese horses
00:41:36coming into the Kentucky Derby,
00:41:38there's so much excitement here in the US.
00:41:40You have two that are definitely in the race,
00:41:42you might get a third.
00:41:43Is this a big story in Japan?
00:41:45Are people following it?
00:41:46Will the Japanese media be descending on the Kentucky Derby
00:41:49like they do when Shohei Otani
00:41:51pitched yesterday at Fenway Park?
00:41:53Yeah, first, thank you for having me, Bill and Randy.
00:41:56It's a pleasure to be on.
00:41:59And yes, it is a big thing.
00:42:02We never send multiple horses in the Kentucky Derby,
00:42:05which is the best racing in the world, arguably.
00:42:09But on the dirt racing and American racing,
00:42:12yes, definitely the best two minutes in the world.
00:42:15So it's huge in Japan,
00:42:19sending to run for the roses.
00:42:21We knew that while we were sharing the world,
00:42:24it's definitely a big thing for Japanese racing fans.
00:42:28Well, Toshi, the whole world has seen the rise
00:42:31in Japanese racing internationally,
00:42:34but it seems like just in the last few years,
00:42:39it's really taken off.
00:42:40And Japanese horses have won two races at the Breeders' Cup,
00:42:43they've dominated in Saudi, they've dominated in Dubai.
00:42:47What do you think are the reasons behind
00:42:50this sudden and dramatic rise in international success?
00:42:56You know, there's several reasons, Randy.
00:43:00But one word would explain
00:43:04that those success would be investment.
00:43:08Japanese racing industry invest a lot for breeding side,
00:43:14mares and stallions.
00:43:16And also, the human resources, education,
00:43:20they send Japanese people to international to learn
00:43:24and how to manage horses.
00:43:26And trainers also sending horses
00:43:29to the international stages.
00:43:31They learn and improve.
00:43:34At early stage, it wasn't really easy to get success.
00:43:39And a lot of failure, on that, we get a couple of success.
00:43:46And as you know, and everyone be aware of success
00:43:49in the international stages recently by Japanese horses.
00:43:55It's based on a lot of challenge previously made
00:43:59by Japanese connections, I believe.
00:44:02Koshi, let's go down through the three horses
00:44:04that we're talking about.
00:44:05And I want to start with Mandarin Hiro,
00:44:07because we've seen him on US soil this year,
00:44:10the only one of the three Japanese horses we have.
00:44:13We were told that he's a good horse,
00:44:15but he didn't come from the JRA tracks,
00:44:17he came from the NAR tracks,
00:44:19which are, quote unquote, second string.
00:44:22Did he surprise people that he ran so well
00:44:25in the Santa Anita Derby?
00:44:27Yes, definitely was surprising result, I believe.
00:44:30And as you say, for someone don't have much knowledge
00:44:36for Japanese racing, so there's JRA,
00:44:38that's Division One, League A.
00:44:42And NAR is League Two, Division Two,
00:44:46which is subordinated to the JRA.
00:44:48And the primary, the leading trainers
00:44:52are basically based in JRA.
00:44:54So, you know, JRA circuit,
00:44:55and Mandarin Hiro is not from JRA,
00:44:58so coming from NAR track.
00:45:00And, you know, running in the one of the best prep races
00:45:06for the Kentucky Derby, you know,
00:45:08international grade one race on darts,
00:45:10and finishing very close second.
00:45:13That was really surprising result,
00:45:16but it's encouraging result as well.
00:45:19So on the other hand, Mandarin Hiro
00:45:20might've been a bit of a surprise,
00:45:22but Dermis Otagake has been running well in Japan
00:45:25from slightly off the pace,
00:45:27and then in Saudi he ran well,
00:45:29but he seemed to take his game to the next level
00:45:32in the UAE Derby.
00:45:34I'm excited about him,
00:45:36especially the way Mandarin Hiro ran at Santa Anita.
00:45:38Give us your sort of inside look,
00:45:41your scouting report on Dermis Otagake.
00:45:45How good do you think he is?
00:45:47Dermis Otagake is, you know,
00:45:49re-stat winner in Japan,
00:45:51but it was, you know,
00:45:53Zenri Ponri Sayushin,
00:45:55which is one of the Japan road to Kentucky Derby race,
00:45:59but it's locally grade one.
00:46:02It's JPN1 we call.
00:46:04It's locally grade one,
00:46:06but internationally re-stat race,
00:46:07so he won that,
00:46:09and he went to Saudi,
00:46:12disappointingly, you know, placed,
00:46:14then in Dubai,
00:46:17that was so impressive by him,
00:46:20you know, that performance,
00:46:21and Christophe Rommel ridden,
00:46:23and he will ride Dermis Otagake in the Derby as well,
00:46:28so I believe he's definitely one of the best
00:46:31three years old horse on dirt in Japan,
00:46:35but we don't really know.
00:46:37We don't get any benchmark compared to,
00:46:40you know, American horses,
00:46:41and it's a big cask,
00:46:42and as you mentioned,
00:46:44you know, we got recently,
00:46:46we got really successful result,
00:46:48not only tough and on dirt as well,
00:46:50you know, Breeders' Cup two years ago,
00:46:52Arma Oshinore,
00:46:54and, you know,
00:46:55Saudi Cup, Panthera side,
00:46:57Dubai World Cup,
00:46:58you know, Ushiba Tesoro,
00:47:00but, you know,
00:47:01we haven't really had those success previously.
00:47:06It's still a big ask for Dermis Otagake,
00:47:10and, you know,
00:47:11I hope I'm wrong,
00:47:13but it's really tough for him to,
00:47:15you know,
00:47:16a lot of things to overcome, I believe.
00:47:19Toshi, getting back to Mandarin Hero
00:47:21and how it relates to Dermis Otagake,
00:47:24I assume that in Japan,
00:47:25Dermis Otagake is regarded as the better horse of the two,
00:47:29especially since he's coming from the better circuit.
00:47:31Were people saying that,
00:47:33my goodness,
00:47:33if Mandarin Hero can come within a nose
00:47:36of winning the San Andres Derby,
00:47:38then wow,
00:47:39what does that mean for Dermis Otagake?
00:47:41He must really be in a good place.
00:47:45Yes.
00:47:46I think, you know,
00:47:46Dermis Otagake is definitely the most exciting horse
00:47:50to send in Kentucky Derby from Japan,
00:47:54and Mandarin Hero ran well in the grade one,
00:47:59you know,
00:48:00primary, the prep race for the,
00:48:03you know,
00:48:03Kentucky Derby,
00:48:04but at the same time,
00:48:06you know,
00:48:07again, you know,
00:48:08I say that, you know,
00:48:09it's really difficult to see that,
00:48:11and we're really, you know,
00:48:14looking for that as well,
00:48:16but at the same time,
00:48:17you know,
00:48:18Mandarin Hero's San Andres Derby
00:48:19was a questionable field,
00:48:21I believe, you know,
00:48:21compared to other,
00:48:23you know,
00:48:24yeah,
00:48:24let's simply say,
00:48:25saying, you know,
00:48:26compared to the British Cup juvenile,
00:48:27you know,
00:48:28it wasn't like that.
00:48:30So I'm not sure how to transfer the form to US circuit
00:48:35from Japanese racing,
00:48:37but yeah,
00:48:38it's really exciting,
00:48:39but at the same time,
00:48:40you know,
00:48:41again,
00:48:42it's a big challenge for him.
00:48:43You mentioned the big,
00:48:44you've mentioned twice now,
00:48:45the obstacles,
00:48:47the challenges that Dermot Otagake's got to face.
00:48:50Historically,
00:48:51the UAE Derby horses have not done well
00:48:54in the Kentucky Derby.
00:48:56Arguably,
00:48:57none of them have been as talented as Dermot Otagake,
00:49:00maybe Mendelssohn,
00:49:02when he won so impressively a few years ago.
00:49:04One of the challenges that American handicappers
00:49:07that don't really like Dermot Otagake,
00:49:10that believe that there are too many challenges,
00:49:13focus primarily,
00:49:14I think,
00:49:15on the travel aspect.
00:49:18We've sort of come to believe that it's the trip
00:49:23from Dubai to America,
00:49:25right before the Kentucky Derby,
00:49:27has been a little bit of a challenge.
00:49:29right before the Kentucky Derby,
00:49:31has proven to be a little difficult to overcome.
00:49:34And in this case,
00:49:35Dermot Otagake's gone from Japan to the Middle East,
00:49:38and now from the Middle East to America.
00:49:41Is the travel a concern for the Japanese?
00:49:46That's definitely one of the concerns,
00:49:48I'd say,
00:49:49you know,
00:49:49travel and,
00:49:51you know,
00:49:51running in different country and quarantine,
00:49:54you know,
00:49:54training on different track,
00:49:55you know,
00:49:56they don't train on the track only,
00:50:00you know,
00:50:01they train,
00:50:01you know,
00:50:02mainly on the pre-training center in the JRA system,
00:50:05because trainer have a limit for,
00:50:08limit for the numbers of the horses in stable at one time.
00:50:13So that's a lot of thing to overcome,
00:50:16for sure.
00:50:18Toshi,
00:50:19we haven't mentioned the other horse,
00:50:21Kantanuar,
00:50:22who's really flying in under the radar now.
00:50:25He's not getting the attention that Dermot Otagake is getting
00:50:27because he finished behind him in the UAE Derby.
00:50:31Tell us more about him and could he surprise people?
00:50:33I mean,
00:50:34it's absolutely possible.
00:50:35And,
00:50:36you know,
00:50:37he's trained by the master Yahagi,
00:50:39you know,
00:50:40trainer,
00:50:41you know,
00:50:42internationally successful trainer,
00:50:43and he won Breeders' Cup,
00:50:45two of it,
00:50:46in 2021,
00:50:48with Robson Liu and Mao Shuren,
00:50:51and he won Saudi Cup,
00:50:52and he won in Cox's parade,
00:50:54et cetera.
00:50:54He's really successful trainer at international stages,
00:50:58and he,
00:50:59you know,
00:51:00seems,
00:51:00you know,
00:51:01he knows something that the other trainer doesn't know.
00:51:03So it's really interesting to see.
00:51:06And Kantanuar is,
00:51:09you know,
00:51:09seems he doesn't have much turn of hood,
00:51:13but he stays really well.
00:51:15So it's,
00:51:15it's really,
00:51:16you know,
00:51:17interesting to see,
00:51:19you know,
00:51:19a little bit more trip for him in Kentucky Derby,
00:51:22I think.
00:51:23So back to Derma Sotogaki and surfaces.
00:51:28We are told that the racing surfaces on dirt in Japan
00:51:32tend to be deep and sandy.
00:51:35The racing surface in Saudi Arabia
00:51:38was on the deep side,
00:51:40fluffy,
00:51:41deep.
00:51:42But in Dubai,
00:51:44the Maidan racing surface is much more like
00:51:47an American racing surface in that it's,
00:51:49it's firmer and a little bit harder.
00:51:52Is that a point in Derma Sotogaki's favor
00:51:55coming into Churchill Downs,
00:51:56do you think?
00:51:58Yeah,
00:51:59I think it can be,
00:52:00it can be on the,
00:52:01you know,
00:52:02and,
00:52:02you know,
00:52:03he showed,
00:52:04you know,
00:52:05plenty of speed and stayed well.
00:52:06And,
00:52:07you know,
00:52:08it was very easy,
00:52:09you know,
00:52:10one easy win.
00:52:10And I'm not sure because,
00:52:13you know,
00:52:14he won the Zen Nippon Association,
00:52:16the race that last December in Kawasaki race course.
00:52:21You know,
00:52:22he wasn't leading the race,
00:52:24but in the UAE Derby,
00:52:25there was a different style for him
00:52:26and it was so easy.
00:52:28And I think as long as the pace is right
00:52:31and Christophe,
00:52:32Christophe Lemaire is a really good jockey
00:52:34and he knows what he's doing and,
00:52:36you know,
00:52:37what's best for Derma Sotogaki.
00:52:39So,
00:52:40as long as all the situation,
00:52:42you know,
00:52:43went everything good for him,
00:52:45I think it's definitely a good chance for him.
00:52:47Toshi,
00:52:48you brought up Christophe Lemaire and,
00:52:49tell us a story about how a French person
00:52:52started riding in Japan
00:52:54and is he generally considered the top rider
00:52:56in Japan right now?
00:52:57Yes,
00:52:58he is definitely,
00:52:59you know,
00:53:00one of the best and,
00:53:01you know,
00:53:02arguably the best.
00:53:03And particularly,
00:53:04you know,
00:53:06he has great ride,
00:53:08great one races,
00:53:10you know,
00:53:11when it comes to top class races,
00:53:12classic races,
00:53:14or the pinnacle of the racing,
00:53:16he always do well.
00:53:17And I believe,
00:53:20the story behind this,
00:53:23you know,
00:53:23he was riding in France and,
00:53:24you know,
00:53:25the contract with Aga Khan,
00:53:27you know,
00:53:28was finishing.
00:53:29And then,
00:53:30you know,
00:53:31he's short time,
00:53:32getting,
00:53:33you know,
00:53:33short time license every year in Japan.
00:53:35And,
00:53:36finally,
00:53:37you know,
00:53:38JRA was accepting,
00:53:39you know,
00:53:39foreign jockeys to get full time license
00:53:42and he applied and he got license.
00:53:44And since then,
00:53:45you know,
00:53:46he got the horse like,
00:53:47you know,
00:53:47of course,
00:53:49in Dubai,
00:53:51that the son of Kitasan Black,
00:53:53Equinox won really well and,
00:53:55you know,
00:53:55Almondai and Darby Wiener,
00:53:57et cetera.
00:53:58So he's definitely one of the best,
00:54:00I would call Japanese jockey.
00:54:02So Toshi,
00:54:03I went back and looked at a lot of the Japanese horses
00:54:05that have run well internationally
00:54:06over the last few years.
00:54:07It started with Crown Pride
00:54:09and then Marsh Lorraine and Love's Only You
00:54:12and then Equinox and Dermasotagake
00:54:15and some of the other horses that ran well
00:54:17in Saudi Arabia
00:54:18and some of the horses that ran well in Dubai.
00:54:20I came up with a list of 16 Japanese horses
00:54:23to go back and look at.
00:54:2515 of them
00:54:27had Sunday silence in their pedigrees,
00:54:31either as a grand sire or a great grand sire.
00:54:35How important has Sunday silence been,
00:54:39in your opinion,
00:54:41historically to the resurgence of Japanese racing here
00:54:45or the upswing of Japanese racing
00:54:46in the last couple of decades?
00:54:49It's a very good question, Randy.
00:54:55As I said earlier,
00:54:57the Japanese invested a lot
00:55:00for breeding site,
00:55:02stallion and mares,
00:55:04and also people.
00:55:06But I think the pivotal point
00:55:09for the Japanese breeding,
00:55:11and bloodstock,
00:55:12and surrogate industry was,
00:55:17when we got Sunday silence.
00:55:19Sunday silence changed everything.
00:55:21Of course, deep impact,
00:55:23the sound of Sunday silence,
00:55:24the best sound of Sunday silence,
00:55:27and the leading sire in Japan,
00:55:29the champion sire in Japan,
00:55:31was probably the first Japanese sire
00:55:36internationally recognized
00:55:40as a leading sire.
00:55:43But the point changed dramatically
00:55:47in the Japanese surrogate racing and breeding
00:55:50was when we got Sunday silence.
00:55:52So he got huge impact in Japanese racing.
00:55:58Toshi, I want to segue over
00:56:00from the Triple Crown Kentucky Derby horses
00:56:02to Equinox,
00:56:04who Randy just brought up.
00:56:05And he was so impressed with the Dubai Shima Classic.
00:56:09We're reading now that,
00:56:10I would think that after a horse won a race like that,
00:56:13and with his credentials,
00:56:14the goal would be the Arc de Triomphe.
00:56:16We understand they're looking more so
00:56:18to the Breeders' Cup turf,
00:56:19which is great news for American racing.
00:56:21But why is that?
00:56:23Why would they be looking at the American race
00:56:25over running in the Arc and trying to win the Arc?
00:56:29Yeah, you know, I'm not his owner,
00:56:31so I can't really say for that.
00:56:33But in my opinion,
00:56:37it's really difficult.
00:56:38And it's different test in the Arc de Triomphe
00:56:42compared to the Japanese racing.
00:56:45And one thing is pace is very different.
00:56:48Japanese tend to go really fast at early pace.
00:56:51But European don't really get that fast.
00:56:56And of course, people say ground.
00:56:59But I think ground is, to be honest,
00:57:02it's same for all runners in the race.
00:57:06But the pace, the pace they get used to in the racing
00:57:11and how to make the best effort in the race
00:57:18is really different.
00:57:19And that doesn't really suit Japanese horse
00:57:22in the Arc de Triomphe.
00:57:24And the reason why I can see
00:57:28the connection of Equinox considering America
00:57:33is one thing is this year
00:57:34is at the Santa Anita, the West Coast,
00:57:38which is closer to Japanese,
00:57:41which is close to Japanese,
00:57:43just close to Japan compared to, you know,
00:57:46like Kinland or other race courses.
00:57:49So I think that's one reason.
00:57:51Of course, the successful result we got two years ago
00:57:56by Yahagi's, you know, Moushuren and Dabzonryu,
00:58:00that's really, you know,
00:58:02supporting that decision-making process, I believe.
00:58:08We're all excited about the international aspect
00:58:11to this year's Kentucky Derby.
00:58:13How much do you think you'll see betting in Japan
00:58:16on these horses in the Kentucky Derby?
00:58:22You know, it's a little bit tough.
00:58:25And at first, I'd like to talk Japanese pool
00:58:29and time difference.
00:58:31Japanese pool will open at late night,
00:58:34in nighttime in Japan.
00:58:35And, you know, Kentucky Derby is Sunday early morning.
00:58:39So it's a little bit difficult to, you know,
00:58:41engage as an, you know, entertainment
00:58:46to Kentucky Derby for Japanese punters
00:58:48and Japanese racing fans.
00:58:50You know, the person, you know,
00:58:53really engaging to racing as you,
00:58:56in Japanese racing and international racing,
00:58:58usually they bet to the Kentucky Derby.
00:59:00But other than that,
00:59:01it's a little bit difficult for Japanese people.
00:59:04And in terms of the market,
00:59:06yeah, in Japan, probably Japanese horses will be,
00:59:09you know, will get shorter price
00:59:12compared to other market, of course.
00:59:14You know, it's always, there's tendency,
00:59:17you know, Japanese always support Japanese horses.
00:59:20And also probably there's lack of information
00:59:23about local horses, et cetera.
00:59:26And yeah, in the American market,
00:59:29you know, antipost I can see in the international market
00:59:33for the Kentucky Derby, Terima Sotokake is,
00:59:36I think one of the, you know,
00:59:38top five or six and 12 to one or something like that.
00:59:43Yeah, I'll be harsh to be honest,
00:59:45but it's, yeah, it's a little bit short for me.
00:59:48Again, it's because, you know,
00:59:50winning a classic race is really hard for anyone
00:59:55and winning a classic race in different country
00:59:58or different continent.
00:59:59As Randy mentioned, you know, it's including travel
01:00:02and travel from Dubai and previously Japan to Dubai.
01:00:06It's, you know, a big task.
01:00:09And 12 to one for me is a little bit short
01:00:12for Terima Sotokake.
01:00:13And, you know, other horses, you know,
01:00:16continue on, get, you know, 50 to one
01:00:18or something like that.
01:00:19You know, it could be a good four place bet to be honest.
01:00:22That's why, what I would think.
01:00:25And, yeah, even for Terima Sotokake, yeah,
01:00:31I would say, you know, 25 to one or something like that
01:00:34would be something attentive for me.
01:00:38You know, that's respect for local horses as well.
01:00:41Well, some great insights from racing journalist,
01:00:43Japanese racing journalist, Toshiya Nakubu.
01:00:46Toshi, thanks so much for joining us here
01:00:48on the TDN Writers' Room podcast.
01:00:49And we look forward to Japanese invasion
01:00:52coming to Churchill Downs on the first Saturday in May.
01:00:55Thank you so much for having me.
01:00:57This should be interesting
01:00:58as this week's guest of the week, Toshiya Nakubu
01:01:01will receive a free one hour tax consultation
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01:02:19With some of the fullest fields in the country
01:02:23and quality racing year round,
01:02:25there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
01:02:27of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
01:02:31Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high
01:02:34as is average purse per race,
01:02:36outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
01:02:40Kentucky breds, breed them, raise them, race them.
01:02:45We all win.
01:02:47So T.D. Thornton's Derby Top 12 is hit the internet
01:02:50and it's no surprise that the top nine
01:02:52and 11 of his top 12 are Kentucky breds.
01:02:56The outlier, the Pennsylvania bred,
01:02:58we've already talked about Angel of Empire,
01:02:59but it's our classic empire and it's Dan Marmody's Angel
01:03:02were both bred in Kentucky themselves.
01:03:04Meanwhile, tickets are still available
01:03:07for the KTA's Kentucky Derby Trainers Dinner,
01:03:10a long-time staple of Derby Week
01:03:12that benefits the Kentucky Derby Trainers
01:03:14of Derby Week that benefits
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01:03:18a unique program that financially supports
01:03:20owners of Kentucky-sired, Kentucky-fold runners.
01:03:23The Derby Trainers Dinner will take place
01:03:25Tuesday night of Derby Week.
01:03:26That's May the 2nd at the Speed Art Museum in Louisville.
01:03:30For tickets, visit kentuckybred.org.
01:03:35Well, no Triple Crown preps this weekend.
01:03:37They were all done with that with the running
01:03:38of the Lexington last weekend at Keeneland.
01:03:40By leaps and bounds, the biggest racer this weekend
01:03:43is the Oaklawn Handicap, $1 million out at Oaklawn,
01:03:46a grade two.
01:03:48I gotta imagine this is gonna be upgraded
01:03:49back to a grade one pretty soon.
01:03:51You've got a field of seven in there.
01:03:53You've got Wayne Lucas trying to win three in a row
01:03:55with Last Samurai, excuse me, Last Samurai.
01:03:57You have Stiletto Bay and Proxy
01:03:59who are one-two in the San Diego Handicap.
01:04:01But guys, I'm gonna give Charged another chance.
01:04:04I've loved this horse since he won the Dwyer by 23 lengths.
01:04:08He came back with that nice allowance win at Gulfstream.
01:04:11Then he got beat as the heavy favorite
01:04:13in the Gulfstream Park Mile.
01:04:14I don't know why.
01:04:16He kind of threw in, at least from a buyer standpoint,
01:04:19he regressed that day.
01:04:20Interesting to see Todd Fletcher put blinkers on him.
01:04:23He's going from one turn back to two.
01:04:25Maybe that will help.
01:04:26I gotta give him one more chance in there.
01:04:29And how about Rated R Superstar?
01:04:31I don't think he's gonna win this thing,
01:04:33but he's aged 10 years old,
01:04:36and he's still out there fighting in these big races.
01:04:38So hats off to the old boy.
01:04:40Let's see if maybe he can hit the board in this one.
01:04:43You know, this is just an absolutely sensational race.
01:04:46A lot of these, you know, spring, winter,
01:04:49big stakes for older horses have been impacted negatively
01:04:53over the last four or five years by the Saudi Cup,
01:04:55by especially the Dubai World Cup.
01:04:57But this year really Country Grammar
01:04:59was the only horse of note from America
01:05:01in the Dubai World Cup.
01:05:02So as a result now, we get all of these top horses
01:05:05coming back in the Santa Anita Handicap
01:05:07as well as the Oakland Handicap.
01:05:09I mean, when you have Last Samurai,
01:05:11who's two for two at Oaklawn at this meet,
01:05:13you have the one-two finishers in the Big Cap,
01:05:15and then you have Chargette to boot.
01:05:17I mean, that is a heck of a race
01:05:19along with some of the other horses in there.
01:05:21Chargette, I didn't see an excuse for him last time.
01:05:24I just thought he kind of underperformed.
01:05:27And you can read between the lines.
01:05:29I think Todd Pletcher sort of thinks the same thing
01:05:32because Chargette will get blinkers on
01:05:35for the Oaklawn Handicap.
01:05:37So I think maybe Todd believes
01:05:38that there's just a little bit more in there
01:05:41that Chargette wasn't quite giving him in that last race.
01:05:44Proxy, a fast-closing second to Stiletto Boy in the Big Cap,
01:05:48kind of back to his old tricks.
01:05:50Didn't do much running at all until the field turned for home
01:05:53and then he came flying down the stretch.
01:05:56We'll see if that plays out at Oaklawn,
01:05:57which does have a slightly longer stretch run
01:06:01than Santa Anita does.
01:06:02So that might work in Proxy's benefit.
01:06:04And the coach is going to have the favorite,
01:06:06obviously, Zoe, in First Samurai.
01:06:08Oh yeah, he definitely is.
01:06:10But I mean, what a terrific race.
01:06:12Now, my maths is not absolutely brilliant whatsoever.
01:06:16Seven horses in here, the owners of almost $10 million.
01:06:22Five of these are already millionaires in here.
01:06:25So just think about that.
01:06:26This is a field for the ages.
01:06:29You mentioned the one-two finishes from the Santa Anita
01:06:32Handicap, the Big Cap there.
01:06:35I like Proxy in here.
01:06:36I think he's going to run a blinder over that track.
01:06:39You just got to pedal hard.
01:06:40Rosario knows this horse.
01:06:42The closest this horse has ever been to the pace
01:06:45was with Rosario aboard him.
01:06:48So I think Proxy's going to come running,
01:06:50but it's a terrific race.
01:06:51Don't forget about Classic Causeway in here.
01:06:54The trainer, Kenny McPeak,
01:06:56who likes to win races at big odds.
01:06:58This horse just missed by a length to last Samurai
01:07:01and will get Arietta a ride today for the first time.
01:07:05But Classic Causeway, six to one in the morning line,
01:07:07just an absolutely terrific race inside and out.
01:07:12It really is.
01:07:12I can't wait to see it.
01:07:14And Randy, the morning line maker at Oaklawn
01:07:16disagrees with you.
01:07:17He has made Charget the eight to five favorite
01:07:19in their last Samurai at two to one.
01:07:21So we have dueling odds makers,
01:07:23Randy Moss and the Oaklawn line maker.
01:07:26So we'll see what happens with that.
01:07:28All right, Zoe, another big,
01:07:29we took last week off at Santa Anita
01:07:32and they're coming back with a pair of stakes races
01:07:34on Saturday's card, the California and the Kona Gold.
01:07:36What can you tell us about those races?
01:07:39Well, we're filming this before entries are actually taken.
01:07:42So, you know, I just have a list of the probables in here.
01:07:46I'm going to have to pull them up really quickly.
01:07:49I mean, the Kona Gold looks like
01:07:51it's going to be a terrific race.
01:07:52Brickyard Ride is supposed to run there.
01:07:54I'm not sure if he's going to.
01:07:56Forbidden Kingdom's going to be in there.
01:07:58Positivity, as far as the Californian,
01:08:02Defunded is supposed to enter in there.
01:08:05He absolutely loves Santa Anita.
01:08:08Well, it'll be interesting to see
01:08:10if Hernandez will be back on him.
01:08:11He's had very good success with the Edwin Maldonado,
01:08:14but I'm sure he'll go with the leading rider
01:08:16for Hall of Fame of Bob Baffert.
01:08:18McLaren Rail looks like he's supposed to go in there.
01:08:21And then an interesting horse would be Tripoli,
01:08:24who got sent up north by trainer John Sadler
01:08:27to get a confidence booster.
01:08:29I mean, you guys remember Tripoli, right?
01:08:30Pacific Classic winner.
01:08:32He's still around.
01:08:35The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by xptv.com.
01:08:39And xptv is the way to follow your favorite derby horses.
01:08:43Take a look at Forte in his first work back
01:08:46after a grueling effort in the Florida Derby.
01:08:49This is exactly what I wanted to see.
01:08:51A nice, easy half and 15 eyes,
01:08:53working with a very nice horse by the name of Bright Future,
01:08:56who's the son of Curlin.
01:08:57He won on debut.
01:08:58He took down an allowance race in his third start.
01:09:01Owned by the same ownership,
01:09:02and he's always a very, very good workhorse indeed.
01:09:05But Forte on the outside, under his regular rider, Hector,
01:09:09doing just enough in 50 and change,
01:09:11he got on a van after that very nice work
01:09:14and is now resting comfortably at Churchill Downs.
01:09:17We look forward to seeing more from Forte
01:09:19in the coming weeks.
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01:10:37This week, meanwhile, in West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:10:40Dripping Gold delivered a fun,
01:10:42if agonizing, close win at Keeneland on Wednesday,
01:10:46as he took advantage of a nice trip carved out
01:10:48by Tyler Gafleon and got his nose down
01:10:51right in time on the wire.
01:10:53A debut victor at Saratoga as a juvenile,
01:10:56the four-year-old son of Lemon Drop Kid
01:10:58was due for a winning head bob,
01:11:00was beaten a nose and a neck
01:11:02in his final two races in 2022.
01:11:05That had to be a heartbreaker.
01:11:07Before returning with a fourth-place finish
01:11:09in a rough trip at Goldstream last time out.
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01:11:31Learn more at westpointtb.com.
01:11:36This week's Remy Blanc cartoon
01:11:38appears every Friday.
01:11:40The TDN is in its derby time.
01:11:42If roses could think,
01:11:44what would they be thinking about now?
01:11:46Remy will give the answer in his cartoon.
01:11:48That's a wrap on another edition
01:11:50of the TDN Writer's Room.
01:11:51I want to thank Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman
01:11:53as they join us each week here
01:11:55on the TDN Writer's Room.
01:11:56And also our crew behind the scenes,
01:11:58Patty Wolf, who's our producer,
01:12:00Katie Petroniak, our associate producer,
01:12:02Anthony LaRocca, Aaliyah LaRocca,
01:12:04Nathan Wilkinson, they're our editors.
01:12:06Also, of course, Toshiona Kubu,
01:12:07who's our green group guest of the week.
01:12:09And last, but certainly not least,
01:12:11a shout-out to Lucy.
01:12:12Once again, taking her spot right behind
01:12:14Randy's right shoulder, our mascot, Lucy.
01:12:17She's as adorable as always.
01:12:19We'll talk to you next week.
01:12:20Thanks for listening.
01:12:21See you next week.