Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast brought to you by Keeneland.
00:00:32My name is Bill Finlay.
00:00:33I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and I also co-host the Down the
00:00:37Stretch Show on Sirius XM Radio every Saturday morning.
00:00:41Legendary announcer Dave Johnson.
00:00:43It's a must listen.
00:00:44I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and my trusty sidekick Lucy is back and comfortable on the
00:00:51couch.
00:00:52Zoe Kampmann here with XBTV and First Racing.
00:00:55I am currently at Keeneland.
00:00:57I'll just give you a quick view of where I am.
00:01:01You know, I've actually never been up into the suites at Keeneland.
00:01:05I might have to try and beg for an invite at some point because it's very nice up here.
00:01:09So have a nice view.
00:01:11And the rain has followed me, seems to just be following me wherever I go.
00:01:15Well, of course, that's because you spent all that time in Saratoga, where the rain
00:01:19was habitually an element that created problems for the meat.
00:01:25But there was no Saratoga last weekend.
00:01:27So now let's focus in on Delmar.
00:01:30And also there was, of course, the big days at Kentucky Downs with those just astronomical
00:01:35purses.
00:01:36But the Delmar races, the Delmar debutante and the Delmar Futurity kind of stole the
00:01:40show a little bit, especially the Delmar debutante.
00:01:43And we'll start with that.
00:01:44I mean, coming in, Tamara was a star.
00:01:47She's out of beholder.
00:01:48She breaks her maiden first time out with a rough trip.
00:01:51She stumbles at the start.
00:01:53She's a TDN rising star.
00:01:55But how is she going to do when she steps up and faces much tougher competition?
00:01:59This was a good field in the Delmar debutante.
00:02:02And boy, did she come through Zoe.
00:02:04She blew them away, winning by six and three quarter lengths.
00:02:09And a couple of interesting, you know, comments, you know, first of all, let's not call her
00:02:13say she's as good as beholder yet.
00:02:15Let's not do that.
00:02:16She's got a long, long way to go.
00:02:19But just out of curiosity's sake, I look back at the records at this similar point.
00:02:24Beholder was second in this race and got an 88 buyer number.
00:02:29Tamara won the race and got a 91 buyer number.
00:02:32That's, you know, that's pretty close right there.
00:02:34But just based on that little bit of information, she's certainly following in mama's footsteps.
00:02:40It was an absolutely sublime performance.
00:02:45Masterful ride by Mike Smith.
00:02:47A lot of people think you've just got to hang on.
00:02:49But you have to think back to her debut where she stumbled.
00:02:53She almost fell on her head.
00:02:55Mike Smith could have come off.
00:02:57He could have rushed her up there.
00:02:58She could have had a bad experience.
00:03:00She had a good experience.
00:03:01She learned a lot from that.
00:03:03They always knew she was going to be close.
00:03:05And she was just in his hands the whole way.
00:03:07It almost gives me chills just even thinking about her coming down the lane with her ears
00:03:13pricked as easily as she came down the lane.
00:03:17Now, of course, she's named for Tamara Gustav and the late B. Wayne Hughes's daughter.
00:03:23And they were all on hand to watch it.
00:03:25And I was speaking to Ned Toffey the other day at Keeneland.
00:03:27I'm like, man, that was something he's like, wasn't it?
00:03:29And he said, you know, it's really eerie because everybody is comparing that to Beholder's
00:03:35Pacific Classic.
00:03:36I mean, this is a Philly winning a grade one stake as a two year old and they're comparing
00:03:40it to Beholder's Pacific Classic.
00:03:42He said, the really funny thing is they have Beholder's Pacific Classic nine saddle towel
00:03:48hanging up in the office at Spendthrift.
00:03:51And Tamara broke from post position number nine in the grade one debutant.
00:03:56Every step of the way, she was faster than the boys who would run the following day in
00:04:01the Delmar Faturity.
00:04:03The first split, the second 44.45, the only split that wasn't quicker than the boys race
00:04:09was the six furlong split that was 109.72.
00:04:13She finished up in 122.41 and won by six and three quarter lengths.
00:04:20Her final eighth of a mile was 12.69.
00:04:24The boys finished up in 122.65, the final eighth of the mile, 13.32.
00:04:33And they were riding at the end of the race.
00:04:35I mean, that was a sublime performance by Tamara.
00:04:39Laurent, a first out winner for Peter was very, very good.
00:04:43Gate to Paradise was good.
00:04:45But I mean, they just looked like they were tied to a pole at the 16th pole because she
00:04:50just won so easily.
00:04:52It was a massive performance, really exciting to watch.
00:04:56Yeah, all you have to do is look at the hopeful stakes at Saratoga and even the Delmar Futurity
00:05:02to realize that at this stage of their careers, when two year olds go that fast early going
00:05:07seven furlongs, it's very difficult for them to finish up well.
00:05:12And she not only went that fast early, but then she kicked clear very impressively at
00:05:17the top of the lane.
00:05:18To put the 91 buyer speed figure into perspective, last year, Ann Tell Me No Lies won this race
00:05:25with the buyer of 71.
00:05:28The year before, Grace Adler won it with a buyer of 74.
00:05:33And the year before that, Princess Noor, trained by Bob Baffert, won it with a buyer
00:05:38of 79.
00:05:41So I will see what happens now going forward.
00:05:44Next start, you would think the chandelier stakes two turn race at Santa Anita would
00:05:49be the next logical spot.
00:05:51Maybe they'll do what Bill Finley would recommend against and wait for the Breeders' Cup, but
00:05:58right now, she'd have to be a pretty heavy favorite, I think, for the Breeders' Cup at
00:06:02Santa Anita.
00:06:04The last six years, the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies has been dominated by East Coast-based
00:06:11fillies.
00:06:12But if you go back before that, there have been 10 different occasions in the Breeders'
00:06:16Cup era when a horse, a filly, ran in the Delmar debutante and then went on to win the
00:06:21Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies.
00:06:24And this one right now looks like she might become number 11.
00:06:27Put her on the shelf and not run her back to the Kentucky Oaks.
00:06:31That would be more along the lines of what everybody's thinking these days.
00:06:36One thing else to add as well, because everyone had basically written off Beholder as a dud
00:06:42as a broodmare, right?
00:06:43She had QB1, she's had several others.
00:06:45It wasn't only until Tina Eller came along last year, she finally broke her maiden.
00:06:50Dick Mandela had a sigh of relief standing in the winner's circle, delighted that she
00:06:55was finally able to get one to the winner's circle.
00:06:58And now she has Tamra.
00:07:00I spoke to Fred Mitchell from Clarkland Farm, who had Leslie's Lady, and we were talking
00:07:05about Tamra the other day as well.
00:07:07And he was like, well, you know, that's why I got Leslie's Lady so cheap.
00:07:12Her first few foals weren't all that great by any means.
00:07:16And then he bought her fairly cheaply considering what she produced after that.
00:07:20And she had Into Mischief, she had Beholder, and the list goes on and on.
00:07:24It took her a while to get going as a broodmare.
00:07:27So maybe the best is yet to come for Beholder as perhaps the next blue-haired mare.
00:07:32And Zoe, let's not forget that the next one in line is the Curlin Beholder that Amur Zion
00:07:38bought for $4 million back at the Fasig-Tipton Saratoga sale.
00:07:45So that's-
00:07:46It looks like a steal now, doesn't it?
00:07:47It looks like a steal.
00:07:48Absolutely.
00:07:49It is the winter book favorite for the 2025 Kentucky Derby as we speak.
00:07:52Okay, so back to Del Mar, the Del Mar Futurity, all the glowing things that we said and well-deserved
00:07:57about Tamara.
00:07:58I think we have to be a little less enthusiastic about Prince of Monaco.
00:08:02Came in off a big win in the best power, it ran a 103 buyer.
00:08:06The horse was one to 20 in the odds.
00:08:11He did win, but it was by three quarters of the length over stablemate Miramonte, named
00:08:16of course for the announcer.
00:08:18And to me, there was nothing impressive about the performance.
00:08:24Bob Baffert has won this race 17 times, but only two of his Del Mar Futurity winners have
00:08:30gone on to win the Kentucky Derby, and that's American Pharaoh and Silver Charm.
00:08:34I mean, it's hard to knock a horse that wins a grade one, but with all the big buildup
00:08:40like there was for Tamara, it was similar with this horse.
00:08:44He didn't live up to the hype.
00:08:45He definitely wasn't as impressive as Tamara.
00:08:49Miramonte had mixed results coming into the Del Mar Futurity.
00:08:55He had largely been a disappointment, especially in his most recent one mile race before the
00:09:01Del Mar Futurity.
00:09:03So for example, you would have to be much less enthusiastic about Prince of Monaco going
00:09:10forward as then you would Cave Rock, for example, a year ago.
00:09:16Cave Rock went into the Breeders' Cup Juvenile a year ago, off a win in the Del Mar Futurity,
00:09:22off a win in the American Pharaoh with buyer speed figures of 101.98 and then 104, and
00:09:30he couldn't win the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:09:32He was beaten by Forte last year at odds of two to five.
00:09:36So Prince of Monaco has a little more work to do, I think, to restore that reputation.
00:09:41And one other little concern, maybe not so little, about Prince of Monaco is his distance
00:09:48capability.
00:09:49He was stretching out to seven furlongs, not a big stretch out, obviously, for the very
00:09:52first time in the Del Mar Futurity.
00:09:55His dam was unraced.
00:09:58Her dam was strictly 100% a sprinter.
00:10:04And Prince of Monaco is by Spicetown, who is not necessarily a sprint influence, but
00:10:09is certainly more of a speed influence than a stamina influence.
00:10:14Yeah, I mean, that is definitely something to add to it.
00:10:19And it's not often that Bob's horses might bounce off a big figure because he knows exactly
00:10:23where they are at all times in their trainings.
00:10:26But it's possible he might have bounced.
00:10:29I thought he showed a little bit of grit and determination.
00:10:32I know Flavian thought he was just going to sail on by Miramardi, who Bob has always
00:10:38held in high regard as a good horse, and so he should.
00:10:41They spent a lot of money on him.
00:10:43But maybe he's finally figured things out and he's a little bit better than everyone
00:10:48gave him credit for.
00:10:49Maybe he has finally got things going.
00:10:53Maybe he feels a little bit better.
00:10:54Maybe he loved Del Mar.
00:10:56Maybe he had a really good summer.
00:10:57Maybe he just ran a huge race because the other horses were a fair way back from those
00:11:01two.
00:11:02If you didn't know already, the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland, which
00:11:08is where I am right now, suite number nine, if you want to know.
00:11:11The Keeneland September sale is underway with a bang and boy is it with eight seven-figure
00:11:17yearlings selling in the first session, which was yesterday, Monday.
00:11:21That session was led by a $2.3 million daughter of intermischief purchased by Shadwell Stables.
00:11:28In all, the average for session one was up from last year's record figure to over $503,000.
00:11:36The Keeneland September sale continues through September the 23rd.
00:11:40We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:11:44If this place could talk, it would roar.
00:11:54It would say, this is racing, this beating heart in the heart of horse country, steady
00:12:02and strong beneath the roar, reminding us why, for the love of the horse, for generations
00:12:11to come.
00:12:23This is racing, this beating heart in the heart of horse country, steady and strong
00:12:37beneath the roar, reminding us why, for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:12:53The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Stone Street.
00:13:03Stone Street cataloged 59 yearlings for the Keeneland September sale, including Hip 1026.
00:13:09I got a chance to take a look at her this morning.
00:13:11She's a filly by Munnings from Rainier, who sells on Thursday.
00:13:15And want to talk about an update?
00:13:17We already did, but here you go.
00:13:19The filly is a half to Prince of Monaco, who won the grade one Delmar Futurity this
00:13:24past weekend.
00:13:25That is some update right there.
00:13:27Check her out at Barn 49, selling at Keeneland with TaylorMade.
00:13:31Stone Street, born to run, raised to win.
00:13:35And then our next segment coming up after this one with the Green Group Guests of the
00:13:39Week, we're going to talk to Dr. David Lambert, who is from StrideSafe USA, and find out about
00:13:43some of the things they're doing to keep horses safer.
00:13:47And, you know, it's good to focus on the positive because, unfortunately, we've had
00:13:51with the breakdowns at Churchill and the Saratoga meet with Maple Leaf, Mellon, New York Thunder
00:13:56have had to spend, justifiably so, a lot of time on this podcast about the bad news and
00:14:01all the breakdowns.
00:14:02So it dawned on me the other day that without a lot of fanfare, what has been going on at
00:14:08Delmar is phenomenal.
00:14:10And I wrote a story for the Thoroughbred Daily News, which I said, is it possible for a racetrack
00:14:16to have a perfect safety record?
00:14:18And the answer we know is no, but Delmar is getting awful close to this.
00:14:23And they went through the meet this year with not a single horse breaking down during a
00:14:29race.
00:14:30One horse died a little bit later, a few days later, after suffering an injury and not coming
00:14:35through the surgery in a manner where the horse could be saved.
00:14:39They did have three deaths as well in morning training.
00:14:43Last year in 2022, very similar story, not a single horse broke down in a race.
00:14:49Two horses did also die after surgery was being performed on them.
00:14:54Is it perfect?
00:14:55No, but this is what we've been talking about all along, getting these numbers down to a
00:15:00point where it's as close to perfect as you can reasonably get.
00:15:06And Delmar, Zoe, and I know you have a lot of experience with what Santa Anita has done,
00:15:11and their numbers are comparable and also very commendable.
00:15:14But what are they doing out there that is making this, you can't compare all racetracks
00:15:20as the data is not out there.
00:15:22A lot of tracks don't publish their data, but I think it's pretty safe to say Delmar
00:15:26has become the safest racetrack in America.
00:15:28Yeah, I mean, the whole California racetrack group has got together and put in some of
00:15:34the strongest, most stringent safety resumes across the nation.
00:15:41I said it last week and I'll say it again.
00:15:43It's a hard place to train a horse if you're a trainer because you're jumping through
00:15:47hoops, you're jumping through pre-work checks, post-work checks, pre-race checks, post-race
00:15:53checks.
00:15:53There are a lot of hoops to jump through.
00:15:55It's incredibly tough.
00:15:56The vets are on you.
00:15:58There are vets stationed at various points around the racetrack that are employed by
00:16:03the racetrack just to flag horses.
00:16:05They'll come back to the barn, they'll jog them down the road.
00:16:08You know, there are a lot of eyes on these horses and that's what the racetrack needs.
00:16:14That is in order to get the numbers down.
00:16:17One thing that Delmar has that Saratoga didn't have over the course of the summer is good
00:16:22weather.
00:16:23And the one thing that we've seen with rain comes fatalities.
00:16:27I hate to say it, but it's the sealing and unsealing of the racetracks.
00:16:32It's the different surfaces with the horses pounding on them.
00:16:36Rain does not help anything.
00:16:37And the CHRB mandated that horses cannot run on sealed racetracks.
00:16:43You cannot work on sealed racetracks.
00:16:45It just adds to concussion and micro fractures and everything else that goes on.
00:16:51So they have great weather.
00:16:53They have great veterinary checks, good horsemen, and excellent track man out there in Dennis
00:16:59Moore who oversees all of California's racetracks.
00:17:01So it's a team effort.
00:17:03And let us not forget the trainers, because it's hard work being a trainer in California
00:17:09at the moment and having to pass all these vet checks.
00:17:12So, I mean, everybody is working for the betterment of the sport.
00:17:16And that is what needs to go on.
00:17:18And that is why they're having such a good record.
00:17:20Yeah.
00:17:21Zoe, you just hit upon the primary reason why long term a good synthetic racing surface
00:17:29will always be safer even than a well-maintained dirt surface because of the rain factor and
00:17:35what it does to a dirt track.
00:17:37But all you have to do is go back less than a decade ago to the immediate aftermath of
00:17:43the synthetics being pulled up in Southern California and look at the fatality statistics,
00:17:48at the breakdown statistics at Santa Anita and Del Mar.
00:17:52And they were not good.
00:17:53I mean, they were two of the worst statistically.
00:17:56And there were others in the East Coast as well.
00:17:58Churchill Downs has never had a fantastic record either in the catastrophic breakdown
00:18:04area.
00:18:05And we've credited Santa Anita on this podcast in the past.
00:18:10Del Mar deserves clearly just as much credit.
00:18:13I mean, from top to bottom.
00:18:15And it is a yeoman's task to do everything that they have to do from the veterinary perspective
00:18:21and things like that in order to make those dirt racetracks as safe as it was.
00:18:26And what you saw at Del Mar this summer, weather helping, obviously, was as good as it could
00:18:34possibly get for a dirt racetrack.
00:18:38And Randy, let's not forget that, you know, Del Mar said the weather advantage is huge.
00:18:44I mean, it's almost impossibility that they'd have a sloppy track there with the kind of
00:18:48weather they have during this time.
00:18:50But, you know, they've gone from one extreme to another.
00:18:53You know, if I'm calling them now the safest racetrack in North America, well, 2016, again,
00:18:59because we don't have all the numbers, but they were likely the most dangerous racetrack
00:19:04in North America.
00:19:05And listen to these numbers.
00:19:06After I gave you the numbers for what happened this year with not a single horse dying during
00:19:12a race and only three dying so far as morning training, in 2016, this is after they pulled
00:19:18the synthetic out.
00:19:20They had 12 deaths in races and plus 12 in races and then 11 in training.
00:19:29So there was 23 deaths at the meet, 23 deaths at the meet.
00:19:34The number we always look at so far as deaths per 1,000 starts was 3.01 per one.
00:19:42And those are terrible numbers.
00:19:44But to their credit, and I talked to Josh Rubenstein and he said, you know, we just
00:19:48realized he's the president of Delmar.
00:19:50We have to get this right.
00:19:51They brought in Dennis Moore, the famed track superintendent to work on the track, and they
00:19:55put in all these various, you know, hoops that you have to jump through with the veterinarians.
00:20:01I hope every racetrack can do this.
00:20:03I realize that maybe the mountaineer parks of the world don't have the resources to do
00:20:07some of the things they've done at Delmar.
00:20:09But anybody, every racetrack out there should be looking at what Delmar, Santa Anita, and
00:20:13the California Horse Racing Board have done because these numbers are just remarkable
00:20:17and they're such a breath of fresh air.
00:20:19Yeah.
00:20:19I mean, after what happened at Santa Anita with all the horse deaths, what was that,
00:20:23five, six years ago, maybe a little bit less than that.
00:20:25I mean, I remember some of us said at the time, obviously you never, ever want to see
00:20:29a single horse death, but maybe, please, please let there be a silver lining to this in the
00:20:35future.
00:20:36And it looks like that's what we're seeing.
00:20:38That's been sort of the impetus for wholesale changes in Southern California that have made
00:20:43a huge difference in saving racehorse lives.
00:20:45And hopefully that is and will continue to spread nationwide.
00:20:49You're right.
00:20:50Yeah.
00:20:51The safety protocols are moving eastward.
00:20:54That is for sure.
00:20:55They're already starting.
00:20:56Obviously, we spoke about it in New York and it's the way to go.
00:21:01And, you know, synthetic tracks aren't going to hurt either.
00:21:05The TD and Riders Room brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:21:10We've been keeping you up to date over this last year or so about the exploits of
00:21:15famed Pennsylvania bred Caravelle.
00:21:18Or there's something else to report now about Caravelle.
00:21:20She is due to be sold at Keeneland November.
00:21:24The Breeders' Cup Turf winner, winner of over $2 million will be sold along with her
00:21:29dam ZZ Zoom Zoom at Keeneland November.
00:21:33A ZZ Zoom Zoom, by the way, will be sold in full to justify.
00:21:38Dam and daughter will be consigned by Hunter Valley Farm and figured to be one of those
00:21:45combos there that bring plenty of fireworks to an auction that always has its own fireworks as well.
00:21:51Reminder, the next two races in the PA bred, PA sired stallion series coming up soon.
00:21:57September 23rd at Parks, two-year-old colts, two-year-old fillies,
00:22:01both at distances of six and one-half furlongs.
00:22:05The PA Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:22:10Six races for PA sired, PA bred two-year-olds at Parks.
00:22:14Two $100,000 contests at five and a half furlongs on August 21st, PA Day at the Races.
00:22:21September 23rd, PA Derby Day as two races at six and a half furlongs,
00:22:26both with a $150,000 purse.
00:22:29And in December, two races going long, each worth $200,000.
00:22:33For more, go to pabred.com.
00:22:36The TDN Writer's Room also brought to you by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm,
00:22:41the sponsor for our weekly Fastest Horse of the Week.
00:22:44This week, we're going to look at a son of intimischief.
00:22:48As Keeneland September's going on, intimischief obviously has been in the news.
00:22:51Well, the most accomplished son, the fastest son of intimischief so far, life is good.
00:22:59Life is good.
00:22:59Nine triple-digit buyers, including that 112 buyer speed figure.
00:23:04He bred 192 mares in his first book,
00:23:08included among those 70 graded stakes winners or graded stakes producers
00:23:14and 25 grade one winners or grade one producers.
00:23:18I'll get this spit out.
00:23:19Life is good.
00:23:22Very fast and standing stud at Windstar Farm.
00:23:25Now, the Fastest Horse of the Week ran on Saturday at Woodbine in the Canadian stakes.
00:23:31She is the Defending Canadian Horse of the Year, and her name is Moira.
00:23:36She returned to the winner's circle after losing three times as a heavy favorite
00:23:41in Woodbine races to begin this summer with a resounding six and one quarter length win,
00:23:47included in those horses she beat fourth place favorite Feb Rover,
00:23:51who had defeated Moira in a race earlier this summer at Woodbine.
00:23:55Moira expected to run next in the EP Taylor stakes in early October at Woodbine,
00:24:01$750,000 for that race.
00:24:03That's a race that she lost last year to Rougier with a rough trip,
00:24:08with a rough trip in that race by only a neck.
00:24:11Moira, 101 buyer speed figure in the Canadian, our Fastest Horse of the Week.
00:24:17The TD and Writers Room is brought to you by the Green Group, a tax consulting and advisory firm
00:24:26specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:24:29For more information on the Green Group and what it can do for your taxes,
00:24:33go to www.greenco.com.
00:24:37And we welcome in now the Green Group guests of the week.
00:24:39His name is David Lambert, and he is the founder of Stride Safe USA.
00:24:44David, I know we'll have a lot of questions for you,
00:24:46but let's just start with the nuts and bolts and explain to us,
00:24:49what is Stride Safe USA?
00:24:51How does it work?
00:24:52And how can racing best use the information that you provide the sport with from your product?
00:24:57That's a lot.
00:25:00In order, Stride Safe USA is a company that we put together a few years ago.
00:25:06It's a partnership between myself initially, between myself and a man in Australia.
00:25:11His name is David Hawk.
00:25:13He owns a company called Stride Master.
00:25:15And Dave had a company that developed a sensor system that they used originally for timing
00:25:23and to provide handicapping information to people in Tasmania.
00:25:31I was down there in Australia in 2018 giving a lecture
00:25:35and had occasion to meet with Dave's wife, who's also an English vet.
00:25:41And we were talking about sensors because I had sensors on
00:25:44racehorses over here to try and predict performance.
00:25:48And I needed a better system and Dave's system looked fantastic.
00:25:52So I was talking to her about getting access to her sensor system.
00:25:56And then it came out that they'd had this piece of equipment on horses in Tasmania
00:26:01for nine years, and they had 35,000 runs of sensors on horses in races.
00:26:09And I was not aware of that.
00:26:11I didn't know anybody had ever done that.
00:26:14So I was going to use their sensor.
00:26:16And a few months after that, in early 19, we had all those fractures happen in California.
00:26:22And I knew from work I'd done with my sensor system,
00:26:25that you could see changes in a horse's stride when something was going wrong.
00:26:30I'd use the system to predict performance and to tell me if
00:26:33a horse was likely to be a grade one winner or not.
00:26:36And it was almost coincidental along the way that we saw these
00:26:40pattern changes when there was a potential injury.
00:26:43And so I tried to reach out to TRAX and say, look, if you get this equipment from Australia,
00:26:50if we get access to these 35,000 records from races,
00:26:55and I share with you the technology I know about a racehorse stride,
00:26:59there's going to be some key information for you here.
00:27:02Because for the first time, you're going to get actual biological data
00:27:06from the athlete itself when it's running at high speed.
00:27:10And that seemed to me to be the logical place to go and look to find
00:27:15a solution to this problem we're facing.
00:27:17Anyway, that didn't just pan out quite as I expected.
00:27:21So Dave and I formed a company and we set off nearly five years now,
00:27:25trying to develop the equipment, develop the understanding,
00:27:29and come up with a product that we could present to the industry
00:27:34to try and spot those animals that were in danger of breaking down.
00:27:38That's kind of it in a nutshell.
00:27:41Right. So David, how does this equipment specifically
00:27:47spot horses that are in danger of a catastrophic injury?
00:27:52Okay. The first thing is the measurements it's taking.
00:27:56It's taking movements or forces, if you like,
00:27:58assessing the forces side to side, up and down and front to back.
00:28:03So we're getting, in essence, in a piece of equipment, what a jockey feels.
00:28:07It's all that movement in your legs and your shoulders and your hands,
00:28:10everything you feel when you're riding a horse.
00:28:13This sensor simply picks that up and puts numbers on it so we can quantify it.
00:28:18The good thing about equipment like that is it's very sensitive.
00:28:22So we're getting 2,400 data points every second and then it never forgets.
00:28:28So it can remember any particular horse in perfect detail
00:28:32for infinity for as long as you want to go.
00:28:35So that gives us a massively sensitive and important tool
00:28:40if we're starting to understand horse movement.
00:28:45And then we'd recognized already that every horse has his own unique way of going.
00:28:50These sensors would pick up the same pattern for the same horse all the time.
00:28:55But if something were to go wrong with that horse,
00:28:57then that pattern changes and the sensors are able to pick that up.
00:29:01And so the preliminary work was to look at cases
00:29:06where we knew the horses had suffered a fatal injury
00:29:09and try to quantify the nature of the patterns that preceded the fatality.
00:29:15That was the basic research that we had to tidy up.
00:29:18And that's where we are now.
00:29:19We've got that pattern.
00:29:21We can identify each individual horse's style.
00:29:24We've got an elaborate model that can tell us
00:29:26when the changes that are happening in a horse's body
00:29:31put them at greater risk of fatal injury.
00:29:35So in a sense, your equipment is going to save a life.
00:29:39Have you had any success in that thus far with some of your tests?
00:29:43What about in Australia as well?
00:29:45And how have the trainers welcomed this into their barns?
00:29:48Because a lot of times,
00:29:49horse trainers don't want to be told by a computer that their horse is wrong
00:29:53when by our eye, the horse looks completely fine.
00:29:57Yeah, that's right.
00:29:58That's the whole thing right there.
00:30:00There's a huge amount there.
00:30:03Let me start with the good news, if I can.
00:30:05Has it worked?
00:30:06Most clearly, it has.
00:30:08We've done some retrospective studies.
00:30:12On one occasion, we had approximately 20 horses that subsequently died.
00:30:18In a group of 6,600 runs.
00:30:22And when we did the math on all of that,
00:30:25we were able to identify 18 out of the 20 before the event happened.
00:30:30Once we had that pattern, we had an occasion recently
00:30:34where we had a couple of horses were given an alarm to the trainer.
00:30:39The trainer thought they were fine, was quite ready to run them back again.
00:30:43And we were able to put those two horses through a PET scan.
00:30:47And both of them, both of these two horses,
00:30:49had evidence of a condylar fracture just sitting there waiting to happen.
00:30:56The bone was fine, all the pathology was there on the PET scan.
00:31:00The horse was sound, but that animal or those two animals,
00:31:05one more race, two more races, they were going down.
00:31:09So those two animals there were certainly saved by the technology.
00:31:14And what about the trainers?
00:31:16Have you had any resistance from some trainers that are like,
00:31:20oh, that's all hocus pocus, I'm not believing into it.
00:31:24When you say, listen, this horse has to be stopped on.
00:31:27Yeah, that's a big hurdle that was to get over.
00:31:32But the news is really good because at the end of the day,
00:31:35all I'm doing is empowering the trainers.
00:31:38That's the essence of what we're all about.
00:31:40We believe the answer to the problem must lie in the trainer's hands
00:31:44because they're the ones who are making welfare decisions on behalf of the horses.
00:31:49They're the only ones who can do this.
00:31:51So I felt our job was to give the trainers,
00:31:54empower the trainers and give them the best possible information that we could.
00:32:00So even though our intentions were that,
00:32:02of course, when you show up, not everybody hears that.
00:32:05And they have their own knee-jerk reactions and resist and push back.
00:32:09And we had to face that, but that's fair enough.
00:32:11You know, you could understand that,
00:32:13particularly in this climate.
00:32:15You know, they're afraid of a new rule and a new regulation
00:32:18and another hoop to jump through before the horse can run a race, you know, get scratched.
00:32:25So I had to just reassure everybody that that's not what we're doing.
00:32:30We're going to give you information several weeks before an animal is going to break his leg.
00:32:35And we're going to tell you that that horse is in trouble
00:32:38and afford you the opportunity with your vets
00:32:41to start looking particularly carefully at these horses.
00:32:45And if they do so, have then the opportunity to spot an impending problem
00:32:50and just not enter the horse in the race.
00:32:52We don't have to scratch one.
00:32:54Ultimately, hopefully, this will be a decision made by trainers not to enter.
00:33:00And even more in the future, they'll start to recognize these changes very, very early
00:33:06and start to get into the healing process long before
00:33:11anybody is even aware that something's going wrong.
00:33:13That's the long term goal.
00:33:15David, you said you've been doing this for five years.
00:33:18It's not snake oil.
00:33:20And you just gave us the facts and figures and the information about how
00:33:25your sensors can alert trainers to the fact that their horses might be in imminent danger.
00:33:30So I'm scratching my head and maybe you have to.
00:33:33Why is this not more and more widespread usage?
00:33:37I think the answer to that is probably just human nature.
00:33:42Come with any idea to a large group of people,
00:33:45and there are going to be those unusual folks who jump on it straight away.
00:33:50And then there'll be those who'll get used to it a little bit later.
00:33:54The establishment and the political players, if you like,
00:33:58the management level are going to be slower still.
00:34:02They have a complex responsibility to the sport at large.
00:34:06They must be absolutely sure that something is valid before they allow it to happen.
00:34:11They can't go off with a knee jerk reaction, jumping in and causing more harm than good.
00:34:16And then, of course, at the other end of that,
00:34:18there's always the soothsayers who are just going to have no part of it.
00:34:22And then all of them are bound by money.
00:34:24They might want to do it and can't afford it.
00:34:27So there's the whole spectrum of things that have, I think,
00:34:32been in evidence as we've tried to bring this forward.
00:34:35But slowly but surely, we're making progress.
00:34:38People are getting on board.
00:34:40And I'm feeling pretty optimistic now that we're going to get this done.
00:34:45So a couple of things, Dave.
00:34:48First of all, for the benefit of those people who may not know,
00:34:53you're not just some guy, some computer quiz that popped up out of nowhere.
00:34:59You were actually the one that convinced Michael Dickinson
00:35:02to make the move from England to the United States.
00:35:05Decades ago.
00:35:06You also have been on the cutting edge of technology for a long time.
00:35:11You used heart scans a couple of decades ago to pick out TAPIT for Vern Winchell.
00:35:17We know how that turned out.
00:35:19And we spoke a few years ago.
00:35:22And at the time, you were very frustrated because you had this technology
00:35:26and you knew its potential to save racehorses.
00:35:30And yet you were having trouble getting people to listen.
00:35:34What was the breakthrough moment when you very first
00:35:38began to get some movement in that direction?
00:35:41Yeah.
00:35:41I think between then and now, I've grown up a bit.
00:35:46I was so frustrated at first because I could see this was working
00:35:49and I could save these horses and these jockeys.
00:35:53And I was a bit headstrong early on.
00:35:55But the reality is everything takes time, doesn't it?
00:35:59You've got to get the groundwork right.
00:36:01You've just got to get in step.
00:36:04And it's never fast enough.
00:36:05But thankfully, we've been moving forward.
00:36:09I think we had a big step forward when Dr. Scott Palmer up at Belmont Park,
00:36:15he's the New York State Equine Medical Director and a very well-respected veterinarian.
00:36:22He got on board and tested our system for over a year,
00:36:28watched and saw what kind of results we were getting.
00:36:31And that was a breakthrough,
00:36:34just purely and simply for the volume of data that we collected.
00:36:38And seeing, unfortunately, seeing the animals that did in fact break their legs.
00:36:44Because you see, you can't get a model to predict that
00:36:47unless you've got data on the ones that did it, right?
00:36:51If you can't get the model from a sound horse,
00:36:54you have to get the model from the animals that die.
00:36:58We had the provisional model from the Tasmanian data, the 35,000.
00:37:03We'd investigated that and made our provisional model there.
00:37:07But then we had to see would it work in this country?
00:37:10How would it work out here?
00:37:13So frustrating though it was that year working with Dr. Palmer was very important.
00:37:22You know, breakthroughs you tend to think of as something explosive,
00:37:25but it wasn't like that.
00:37:26It was just a relentless commitment and slog towards an accurate end result.
00:37:33And that was a breakthrough.
00:37:36And then the next thing I think was academia.
00:37:40I got a lot more support from academia than I was getting from within the industry.
00:37:45But I think that's just part of the mindset, isn't it?
00:37:48The academics are research-based.
00:37:50They're looking for an answer.
00:37:51They're looking into the future.
00:37:53You know, they're not really thinking about money at all.
00:37:55They're just thinking about data and solutions.
00:37:59And they could see very quickly that what we were doing was valid.
00:38:03So they got on board.
00:38:04Professor Bailey at Washington State University was on board very quickly.
00:38:09Dr. Sue Stover, I've used her as a sounding board all the way through
00:38:15because she's the world's best expert.
00:38:17She's the most well-informed of any veterinarian on the planet about these things.
00:38:22So every time I got something interesting, I'd run it by Sue for her opinion.
00:38:27So she was very helpful, just kind of steering me in the right direction.
00:38:31And so I was able to maintain enthusiasm as a consequence of the academic support I was getting.
00:38:40Because there were times we all got a bit low.
00:38:43We're not getting anywhere.
00:38:44It's costing a lot of money.
00:38:46We had all kinds of people here who've worked for free for two or three years.
00:38:50There's a vet in Sweden.
00:38:52Imagine, of all things, a really, really brilliant guy,
00:38:57Mikael Holmström.
00:38:58He's been working for two or three years for nothing to save American racing.
00:39:02I have a professor here in Lexington who's put in three years
00:39:06working for free to save American racing.
00:39:09So in our back rooms, it was a roller coaster of up and down.
00:39:15So all these little bits of support and this relentless move forward is what kept us going.
00:39:21And then there were key individuals.
00:39:24Jim McInvale, absolutely brilliant.
00:39:27He heard about this and then within five minutes, he jumped.
00:39:31He's on board.
00:39:32He's that kind of a fellow.
00:39:33He doesn't wait.
00:39:34He doesn't drag his feet.
00:39:35He sees something that he believes in that's right and he goes for it.
00:39:39And he supported a lot of this testing for over a year now.
00:39:44We put together a run-happy welfare or wellness initiative to try and help his stallion
00:39:53and keep his name out there.
00:39:55But he backed us quietly in the background where nobody else would.
00:40:00He helped us go.
00:40:02So all these things, the breakthroughs, they're kind of an ongoing, continuing movement.
00:40:10It's like a ratchet just going forward rather than a breakthrough per se.
00:40:14We just dug it out.
00:40:17So Dave, say I'm a trainer, which I'm not, and I'm sold on StrideRide,
00:40:22and I've got a small stable of 12 horses.
00:40:26Can I afford it?
00:40:28Yeah.
00:40:28So let me just back out a little notch, right?
00:40:34First of all, we had limited resources going in.
00:40:37And so the logistics of this was important.
00:40:41So the easiest place for us to start was at a racetrack where all the horses are in the gate.
00:40:46At the same time, we've got all their IDs lined up.
00:40:51We know how far they're going.
00:40:53A lot of standardizing stuff.
00:40:55So we can put the sensors on them, run the race.
00:40:58They all finish and we've got it all together.
00:41:01And we can analyze a lot of horses at one go.
00:41:04Once you start going out to do individual horses, it gets a lot more complicated.
00:41:09They're coming out at different times.
00:41:10They're coming out from different barns.
00:41:12You don't know who's who.
00:41:13It's logistically just handling collection, identification, collection,
00:41:20and analysis of these single events was logistically beyond us.
00:41:25Technologically, it's easy, but handling the logistics of it, we couldn't do.
00:41:31So we had to just stay on the racetrack and with the racing where we could get all the information.
00:41:39As far as expense, the test costs $35.
00:41:43So it's a drop in the ocean compared to the value of some of these horses and the general costs of things.
00:41:53So we look at this as a post-race welfare analysis that we provide that information to the trainer.
00:42:02The horse has run.
00:42:04Here's all the data 2,400 times every second.
00:42:07This is how he's changed.
00:42:09This is the level of risk he's at.
00:42:11Whatever it might be, we just give that to the trainer the day after every race
00:42:15so he can start to develop the program of care for the horse.
00:42:19There's a lot of interest for us to try and do it for the 12-horse stable,
00:42:25and hopefully it'll get there one day.
00:42:28But it's rather an expensive undertaking to start doing all that.
00:42:34There's different requirements for the technology and things like that
00:42:38that I'm afraid we just don't have the resources to do.
00:42:41So technologically, it's possible,
00:42:43but if somebody wants to throw a million dollars at us, we can get it done pretty easily.
00:42:48That's the kind of cost there would be.
00:42:51I just have to give you $35, you come and put a sensor on my horse in a race,
00:42:55and then you keep the data forever?
00:42:57Is that it?
00:42:58Is that how it works?
00:43:00When you say we...
00:43:01Well, so far, the owners have not been paying for this.
00:43:05The places we've done it, the racetracks have paid for it
00:43:08and are giving that to the trainers and therefore their owners.
00:43:14I'm hopeful that the racetracks will see that the ones who start to do this
00:43:19are operating at an advantage for those owners and trainers.
00:43:26Hopefully, it will be something that will attract trainers and their owners
00:43:31to those facilities that use sensors,
00:43:33because they're going to get this basically thrown in for being there.
00:43:37They're going to have a welfare analysis of their horse every time it runs.
00:43:41So, I think if I was an owner and I'm looking at a stable of horses,
00:43:46I would rather go to those racetracks where that kind of care was just part of the system
00:43:53than I would to places that weren't doing it.
00:43:57But then, of course, that does create a bit of an issue
00:44:00because now the racetracks are paying for all the horses.
00:44:03So, $35 for one isn't so bad, but multiply that by 10,000 over the year,
00:44:10and now you've got a big number.
00:44:12So, there's the budgetary things to consider and all of that,
00:44:15but it'll get sorted out eventually, I'm sure.
00:44:19We'll find the right way.
00:44:21David, you may have changed this from reading Dan Ross's article,
00:44:24but when you started, it was like a traffic light, red, yellow, and green,
00:44:30with red being the ones that are at the highest risk.
00:44:34And from what I understand, this information is given to the trainers that,
00:44:37okay, your horse was red, quote-unquote red,
00:44:42and you better pay close attention to this.
00:44:46In a day and age when Forte is scratched before the Kentucky Derby
00:44:49because it looks like he has a bruised hoof,
00:44:51horses are put on the vets list all the time.
00:44:53Would you advocate that if a horse gets the red signal,
00:44:56they should be not able to run for some period of time?
00:45:00No, that's getting ahead of itself, and we've modified it a bit since.
00:45:05Like Randy was talking about before, and I was a bit wound up
00:45:09and frustrated in the very, very early days,
00:45:13and I wanted a visceral response from people.
00:45:15I wasn't getting the reaction I wanted,
00:45:18and so we chose this traffic light system,
00:45:20you know, red, amber, green, everybody knows what that means.
00:45:23You know, red, stop, stop, stop, you know, come on, guys, go on.
00:45:27I was trying to get everybody wound up, and that worked for a while,
00:45:30and it was good, it got everybody's attention.
00:45:33But now in the cool hard light of day,
00:45:35we realize that that's probably not the best way to do it.
00:45:38It's a bit too alarmist.
00:45:40Now the visceral response can get out of hand and be inappropriate.
00:45:45So we've changed it now into an assessment of risk,
00:45:48and I think that's a lot more practical and a lot more sensible
00:45:53and allows owners and trainers and their vets to make better decisions.
00:45:57So the animals that have the worst signal, the worst data,
00:46:03are 300 times more likely to suffer a fatality
00:46:07than are the ones that get the normal signal.
00:46:11So we're able to quantify the amount of risk a horse is at
00:46:15once he's come out of a race.
00:46:18So the horse is run, here he is, he's back at the barn,
00:46:21we get the results, and that horse,
00:46:23the data that horse showed us in that race
00:46:26tells us that he's now 300 times more likely to suffer a fatality.
00:46:31We give that to the trainer.
00:46:35This isn't an absolute, he's not definitely going to do it,
00:46:38but he is at a seriously increased level of risk.
00:46:42And all we're asking the trainer to do is have a special look.
00:46:46Bring your vets in because the vets know where these fractures occur, right?
00:46:51They're not random all over the body.
00:46:53There's seven or eight places where these things can break,
00:46:56and 50% of them are in the fetlocks and the sesamoids of the front legs.
00:47:01Half of the fractures, that's where they occur.
00:47:03So if you get one of these category five,
00:47:07one through five now is the risk factor and five is the highest risk.
00:47:11So if a trainer gets a five warning after the race,
00:47:14that horse is 300 times more likely to break down
00:47:17and 50% of the ones that do break down are in the front legs.
00:47:21So start, first of all, looking at those fetlocks and looking at those sesamoids.
00:47:26And in those places that have now got the PET scanner,
00:47:29like we have at Churchill and we have out in California,
00:47:33as we did with the case recently, the two cases recently at Churchill,
00:47:39they went into the PET scanner and they found the problem.
00:47:41So like Dan was talking in his little article last week,
00:47:44what did he say?
00:47:46It was good, wasn't it?
00:47:47It was screen, scan, save.
00:47:49I think that's what he said, right?
00:47:51So that's what you have to do, right?
00:47:53We screened them and then the vet put the horse through the PET scanner,
00:47:57scanned it and two horses got saved.
00:48:00So that's the dynamic that we're looking at.
00:48:02And then there'll be nuance and subtlety associated with all that.
00:48:06And there's going to have to be a lot of calm experience goes into it too,
00:48:11because the signal doesn't always come from just a horse that's going to get injured.
00:48:17The signal analysis to keep it inexpensive has to be automated.
00:48:22Well, automation is somewhat crude.
00:48:27You can't automate things, for example,
00:48:30like if the jockey makes a sudden pull and tries to go on the inside
00:48:34and bumps another horse,
00:48:36that's going to put a risk level five on that sensor
00:48:40because something really bizarre happened.
00:48:42But clearly the horse isn't going to break a leg subsequently.
00:48:47It was an event that has to be judged by individuals,
00:48:50by the jockey or by the trainer.
00:48:53So there's some common sense has to come into this.
00:48:57So once this information goes to the trainer,
00:49:02we hope then that they'll review the race.
00:49:03They'll talk to the jockey.
00:49:05They'll hopefully review the race with their vets.
00:49:08If there is a problem, the vets know the places to go to
00:49:12and they'll check those off.
00:49:14So slowly but surely, I think if we do this and if we keep doing it,
00:49:18and we're going to get the universities
00:49:20because Professor Bailey has already volunteered to do this
00:49:23to teach the vets at the track.
00:49:25We now have to educate them
00:49:27just like we all learned about ultrasound back in the 80s.
00:49:31You know, we didn't have ultrasound machines in the 70s
00:49:34and they all showed up.
00:49:35We all had to learn how to work with them.
00:49:37And it'll be the same with this.
00:49:39The next generation of racetrack veterinarian
00:49:42is going to have to be knowledgeable about data from sensors.
00:49:47We're going to have to teach them how to read these signals.
00:49:51It's fairly straightforward and they'll catch on quick.
00:49:54But I could see that then being an integral part of training
00:49:58and caring for, at a veterinary level, horses at the racetrack
00:50:02and catching these things really early
00:50:05because then they're all going to have to start learning
00:50:09how to fix, how to cure these very, very early,
00:50:15let's call them athletic ailments
00:50:17that subsequently 10, 12 weeks later lead to unsoundness,
00:50:21which 10 weeks after that leads to a fatality.
00:50:24But if we can send that whole thing back
00:50:26to the very, very, very first instant
00:50:29that some little muscle takes a tweak
00:50:31or some little ligament gets pulled,
00:50:32if we can get the whole industry back there working,
00:50:36then so many of our problems go away.
00:50:40Fixing these fatalities is just a coincidental event.
00:50:44What will really happen when we do it properly
00:50:47is the horses will stay sound.
00:50:49We'll keep them sound.
00:50:50We'll keep them sound for longer.
00:50:52We'll have racetracks full of seven-year-olds and eight-year-olds
00:50:55because we'll be able to catch them before something goes wrong.
00:50:58So the whole thing is revolutionary if we can just get it going
00:51:02by bringing the right kind of data to the trainers
00:51:06and educate the vets as best we can.
00:51:08And if we can do it from there, from the ground up,
00:51:11I think the industry is in a really good place.
00:51:13I think we can fix all this stuff.
00:51:16Well, Dave, now more than ever,
00:51:17that would be a fantastic thing.
00:51:20You mentioned veterinarians.
00:51:21I don't think we've mentioned this yet.
00:51:23I mean, you are Dr. David Lambert.
00:51:26You are a longtime veterinarian yourself
00:51:29in the UK and the United States.
00:51:31How has your veterinary background influenced your passion
00:51:37for this particular project?
00:51:40That's interesting.
00:51:43Well, certainly I've ended up where I am
00:51:47through my veterinary education.
00:51:49That got me the opportunity to be in this spot.
00:51:54My veterinary education gave me some of the background knowledge
00:51:59which I was going to need.
00:52:02But I think the real passion has just come
00:52:08from being around the horses, to be honest.
00:52:11I rode out all the time.
00:52:12You know, when I was a vet up in New Jersey,
00:52:14Belmont, Monmouth, you know, all over,
00:52:17I was fortunate enough to have an amateur license.
00:52:21So I rode a few races and rode over jumps.
00:52:24I had a trainer's license for a while.
00:52:26I wasn't very good at that.
00:52:28But I was down in the trenches with everybody.
00:52:33And so the race business gets in your blood, doesn't it?
00:52:39And, you know, like to be on a young three-year-old
00:52:44at six o'clock in the morning galloping around Belmont
00:52:46as the sun comes up, you know,
00:52:49that's kind of where your passion comes from,
00:52:51you know, trying to save that.
00:52:54I've had a couple of falls.
00:52:55I remember one I had where fingers and thumbs were tingling,
00:52:59you know, and you're lying there on the ground
00:53:01and you don't know quite what's happened.
00:53:03So it ends up giving you a certain feeling
00:53:08and understanding empathy for the jockeys.
00:53:11Because, you know, we talk about horses all the time
00:53:13and that's absolutely great.
00:53:14But for every horse that goes down,
00:53:16there's a jockey goes with him.
00:53:18And some family could be, you know, devastated.
00:53:22So, you know, in the back of my mind,
00:53:24as much as we talk about jockeys as horses,
00:53:28my mind is firmly on the jockeys.
00:53:30You know, I think there's as much motivation from that.
00:53:34If we can save a jockey from getting paralyzed,
00:53:37that's a big deal.
00:53:38So, you know, being a vet, yeah, it's important.
00:53:42It got me to the spot.
00:53:43It got me where I could understand bone
00:53:45and understand the pathology.
00:53:47And, you know, and I could start putting the physiology together
00:53:50of how one horse can beat another
00:53:52and all that kind of stuff that I've done for 40 years.
00:53:55But it's the entire package, you know,
00:54:00just everything to do with the horses,
00:54:02the pleasure of being around them,
00:54:04the people that you meet, all of it.
00:54:07Just, you know, that's the passion
00:54:09and that's what we have to save.
00:54:11You know, that's what we got to fix this.
00:54:14Well, Dave, I could sit here for another hour.
00:54:17I'm pretty sure we could just have a three hour podcast here.
00:54:21I just got a couple of questions and then we'll wrap it.
00:54:24First off, you're known as the heart doctor.
00:54:26You are the heart maestro.
00:54:28What is the best heart you've ever measured?
00:54:31Which horse was it?
00:54:32The second off is why do you go
00:54:34and measure horses hearts at night?
00:54:36Because I'm sure you'll be here till midnight measuring hearts
00:54:39because you're at Keenan right now.
00:54:41And the third, what does the spleen got to do with it
00:54:44for those people that don't know?
00:54:46If you could just put a brief synopsis in that would be great.
00:54:50We're trying to cut this short, are we Zoe?
00:54:55Happens to be a long time ago.
00:54:56We started that in the late 70s.
00:54:59We have many more tests now.
00:55:01You'd be fascinated.
00:55:02Feel free, call me anytime.
00:55:03If you saw what we do now,
00:55:05the seven or eight different systems
00:55:07that we're able to assess to determine
00:55:09whether a horse is going to be any good or not.
00:55:13But here's one just for a bit of interest, right?
00:55:16The best hearts are not big.
00:55:19The best heart, they're not.
00:55:21The best hearts are average, right?
00:55:23So think about this, I'll just be real quick, right?
00:55:26So a grade one winner is one
00:55:27in about every 300 horses to run, right?
00:55:31So if you say there were,
00:55:33let's say there were five different things that made a race.
00:55:35So I'll just kind of go with the flow
00:55:37for the argument to get the point.
00:55:38So if item number one existed one in three,
00:55:42so that's pretty common, right?
00:55:44If the second point was one in three,
00:55:46that means one in nine have both.
00:55:48And if the third one was one in three,
00:55:50that's roughly, that's one in 27, right?
00:55:53Have all of them.
00:55:53And then the next one in three,
00:55:55that's one in roughly 100, right?
00:55:57There's got four, I've got all four of them.
00:56:01And if you wanted to get all five of these variables,
00:56:04if that's one in three, you've got one in 300, right?
00:56:07So the mere fact, the actual fact
00:56:09that there's only one grade one winner
00:56:11in every 300 to run,
00:56:13by definition means
00:56:14that each of the characteristics are average.
00:56:18The grade one horses are not outstanding.
00:56:20They're not outliers, generally.
00:56:22They're average everywhere.
00:56:25And that's a bit of a mind blower, right?
00:56:26Because we think these things are superstars
00:56:29and we look up to them,
00:56:30that they're in some way magnificent,
00:56:33but they're not.
00:56:33They're average everywhere.
00:56:35Their bones, their spleens, their hearts,
00:56:38you know, the elasticity,
00:56:39all the different things that we look at.
00:56:41Average, average, average, average, average.
00:56:43Gunrunner, that's Tappit, there's two.
00:56:47And when they're perfect,
00:56:48when they're average everywhere,
00:56:50they fit any mare that comes through the door,
00:56:53just like Tappit does,
00:56:54and just like Gunrunner does,
00:56:56any mare that comes in gets moved up
00:56:58because you're trying to drive everything back to average,
00:57:02right?
00:57:02Because average is the answer, right?
00:57:05So you're bringing in all these different big mares,
00:57:07little mares, fast mares, slow mares,
00:57:09drag them back to average,
00:57:11drag them back to average.
00:57:12And Gunrunner is so good at that.
00:57:15He's so prepotent for that.
00:57:17And then working with Mr. Winchell,
00:57:18he's directed the right mares to this thing
00:57:22and you get Steve, a great trainer,
00:57:24looking after all of these things.
00:57:25And all of a sudden Gunrunner does things
00:57:28that no stallion in history has ever done before
00:57:32because all the science was pulled together,
00:57:34all the traditional horsemanship was pulled together,
00:57:37and that's the answer.
00:57:38And the answer's average.
00:57:40So that's just to be provocative.
00:57:42I'll leave the rest.
00:57:45Wow.
00:57:45Well, Dr. Lambert, very interesting stuff.
00:57:48And it's nice to know that you and others
00:57:50are working so hard to make racing safer
00:57:52because that is the number one priority for this sport.
00:57:55Dr. David Lambert, the founder of Stride Safe USA
00:57:58and this week's Green Group Guest of the Week,
00:58:00thanks so much for joining us.
00:58:01Great, guys.
00:58:02Thank you very much indeed for having me on.
00:58:06As this week's Green Group Guest of the Week,
00:58:08the fascinating Dr. David Lambert
00:58:10will receive a free one-hour tax consultation
00:58:13from Lynn Green and company at the Green Group.
00:58:16To find out more about the Green Group,
00:58:17go to www.greenco.com.
00:58:38Lynn Green has owned and bred some of the best racehorses
00:58:42in the history of the sport,
00:58:43like Eclipse Award-winning champions,
00:58:45Jaywalk and Wonder Wheel.
00:58:47His DJ stable competes at the highest level
00:58:49and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
00:58:52Lynn Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge
00:58:55combined with cutting-edge tax-saving strategies
00:58:58has produced positive results for his clientele
00:59:01and has made the Green Group the top-rated accounting
00:59:03and tax firm in the thoroughbred business.
00:59:06For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
00:59:09contact us at 732-634-5100
00:59:13or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:59:18The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:59:22Game winner first got started
00:59:23and ran a very, very impressive maiden race to Del Mar.
00:59:27Came back in the Del Mar Futurity
00:59:30and again, won very impressively at 7'4 long
00:59:33and then just continued that unbelievable two-year-old year.
00:59:36Went on to win the American Pharaoh Stakes at Santa Anita
00:59:39and then the Breeders' Cup Juvenile
00:59:41and then was obviously crowned two-year-old champion.
00:59:44Got the precocity to do that plus the stamina
00:59:48and everything that his whole family indicates.
00:59:52The Lane Sense Tally of the Week is game winner.
00:59:55Game winner was the sire of a $385,000 yearling at Keeneland
01:00:00from his very first crop of yearlings to come to market.
01:00:03Congratulations to buyers Whitehorse Stables and Mattercat Stables.
01:00:08Game winner was the 2018 undefeated champion two-year-old
01:00:12who earned over $2 million.
01:00:14He scored consecutive victories in the grade one Del Mar Futurity,
01:00:18grade one American Pharaoh Stakes,
01:00:20grade one Breeders' Cup Juvenile at Churchill
01:00:23by Candy Ride and a perennial leading sire at Lane's End.
01:00:28He sure does stamp them, guys.
01:00:31He really does stamp them.
01:00:33Big, strong horses.
01:00:35Well, coming up in the next segment, I got on my format,
01:00:38Zoe on the Women's Conference.
01:00:39Zoe, you are the only Philly mayor on the field in here,
01:00:42so take it away.
01:00:45Just want to remind everyone that the Women's Summit,
01:00:48we had our first one at Santa Anita last year,
01:00:50is coming up at the end of the month.
01:00:52It's actually right before the big meet at Santa Anita starts in the fall.
01:00:56September 27th through the 29th.
01:00:59Three days, we'll have a welcome on the 27th.
01:01:01Tickets are still available.
01:01:03We will have our keynote speaker, and that is Regan Cannon.
01:01:06She will be in to speak.
01:01:08And several other good people on the panelists.
01:01:10We'll have Brittany Ayrton there,
01:01:12Shannon Arvin's coming in from Keeneland,
01:01:14and many, many more.
01:01:15It is a fun, fun event that goes on,
01:01:19and you can still get your tickets.
01:01:21I'll be emceeing, and it should be a fun couple of days.
01:01:25Women supporting women.
01:01:26Should be fun.
01:01:27You could come too, Randy.
01:01:28I mean, there are some men that do come.
01:01:30I'm not invited?
01:01:31Oh, well, you can come as well.
01:01:33You two can come together.
01:01:34We could use some token men in the room.
01:01:36Okay.
01:01:36I mean, you don't want a whole room full of women.
01:01:39I mean, you want to be on the wall for that?
01:01:42No, I specialize in being a token man.
01:01:44That's fine.
01:01:47All right.
01:01:48So, Churchill Downs announced some changes to the point structure
01:01:52for the Kentucky Derby,
01:01:53and I wrote that down.
01:01:53We should talk about this,
01:01:55unless somebody else wants to fill in.
01:01:56And no big deal.
01:01:58What they're done now is the horses that finish second
01:02:00are getting more points than they used to in the past.
01:02:02So, just a little minor tinkering with that.
01:02:06I thought more important news was unfortunate news
01:02:10that just the other day,
01:02:11we learned of the passing of Point Given,
01:02:13who died on Monday at age 25.
01:02:16And he won the Preakness in Belmont,
01:02:192001 Horse of the Year,
01:02:20six-time Grade One winner for Bob Baffert.
01:02:22He was always one of those horses through that era,
01:02:25in between Affirmed and American Pharaoh,
01:02:28where I thought he probably should have won the Triple Crown.
01:02:32He was far and away the best three-year-old of his era.
01:02:37Randy, I don't know if you covered that Kentucky Derby
01:02:39for NBC back then or ESPN,
01:02:42but I'm sure you remember it.
01:02:43He just ran a dull Derby.
01:02:44He finished fifth.
01:02:45I don't think he had any particular excuse.
01:02:48And he came back and was the real Point Given from there on in.
01:02:52Yeah, I'll have a little different opinion here.
01:02:54I think he had a huge excuse.
01:02:56And let me tell you exactly what I think happened, all right?
01:03:00We were also covering the Santa Anita Derby at Santa Anita.
01:03:03And in that particular Santa Anita Derby,
01:03:05it was a fairly short field.
01:03:07And Point Given was up on the pace,
01:03:10sitting second close up
01:03:13in the early stages of the Santa Anita Derby.
01:03:15Well, the reason was because
01:03:16there was absolutely no speed in that race.
01:03:19When you looked at the pace figures for that race,
01:03:21they were very, very slow.
01:03:24And that gave Bob Baffert and maybe even Gary Stevens
01:03:27a false sense of security
01:03:30that Point Given had all this tactical speed
01:03:33and he could be placed anywhere they wanted him.
01:03:36And when he drew an outside post position
01:03:38for the Kentucky Derby in 2001,
01:03:42the decision was made
01:03:43that if he got a decent start from the gate,
01:03:45they could use him a little bit early
01:03:47because of what they saw in the Santa Anita Derby.
01:03:50They could put him in close up position
01:03:52and all would be well.
01:03:54Well, what happened in the 2001 Kentucky Derby
01:03:57was one of the most supersonic paces
01:03:59in Kentucky Derby history.
01:04:01And Point Given was less than two lengths off of the lead
01:04:05after a quarter of a mile.
01:04:07That's not his style at all.
01:04:09He was completely taken out of his best game.
01:04:14And of course, what we saw after the Kentucky Derby,
01:04:17he was allowed to revert to his normal
01:04:20off the pace running style
01:04:21in the Preakness in the Belmont
01:04:23and then later on the Travers and just blew him away.
01:04:25Now, having said that,
01:04:27when you go back and you watch the 2001 Kentucky Derby,
01:04:31Menarcos absolutely freaked in that race.
01:04:34He ran an unbelievable race that day.
01:04:37I think he won by four lengths or something like that.
01:04:39And I'm not sure that Point Given
01:04:42would have beaten Menarcos on that particular day
01:04:46even if he was ridden the way Point Given wanted to be ridden.
01:04:51But I think he certainly had an excuse
01:04:53for being as off form as he was in that particular Derby.
01:04:59That was the coulda, shoulda, woulda race for Point Given.
01:05:02You asked Bob Baffert about Point Given.
01:05:05He thinks he should have won the Triple Crown.
01:05:07Yeah, one other little Point Given story that I have.
01:05:10You might have another one too.
01:05:11So you remember he used to rear up all the time?
01:05:12Oh, yeah.
01:05:14He used to love doing that.
01:05:15Coming back from the track, going to the track,
01:05:17at the barn, whenever.
01:05:19He would go up on his hind legs,
01:05:21sort of like Fusaichi Pegasus used to do,
01:05:23and do the whole auto silver thing.
01:05:25He got loose a couple of times and ran off.
01:05:29Before the Belmont Stakes,
01:05:30he climbed out underneath a stall webbing at Belmont Park
01:05:34and got loose around.
01:05:35Yeah, he was known for stuff like that, right?
01:05:38So after he wins the Belmont Stakes,
01:05:41we're covering for ESPN, Stephen Foster.
01:05:44At Churchill Lounge.
01:05:46And so Baffert was there with another of his horses,
01:05:49and Point Given was stabled in the barn
01:05:51at Churchill Lounge at that point with Baffert.
01:05:54He'd been taken from Belmont to Churchill.
01:05:56And so about feed time, about three o'clock in the afternoon,
01:05:59we went back to talk to Bob Baffert.
01:06:01I think it was me and Jeanine Edwards, maybe.
01:06:03And it was about 98 degrees outside.
01:06:05And I asked Bob, I said, how's Point Given?
01:06:08So he turns around, goes into the barn, comes back out,
01:06:11brings Point Given on a lead shank.
01:06:14So it's Mike Martin, the old photographer
01:06:15of the racing forums there as well.
01:06:17And so we're standing there, you know,
01:06:19two or three feet away from Point Given,
01:06:20which is really cool, obviously, beautiful horse.
01:06:23And the phone rings and someone in the office
01:06:26sticks their head out of the barn and says,
01:06:28Bob, phone call.
01:06:29And Bob says, all right, here, Randy,
01:06:31and tosses me the shank to Point Given.
01:06:35I said, I'm standing there holding the shank
01:06:37to a horse that's notorious for rearing up on his hind legs
01:06:40and getting loose and running off.
01:06:41I'm not a horseman.
01:06:44Bob's walking back to the barn and I'm like,
01:06:46Bob, Bob, no, you don't want to do this.
01:06:49Bob, he said, ah, it's 98 degrees outside.
01:06:53This horse isn't doing anything.
01:06:55And sure enough, he just stood there like a plow horse.
01:06:58And Mike Martin got a great picture of me
01:07:00holding Point Given, which I still have
01:07:02out in front of the barn at Churchill Mounds.
01:07:04Anyway.
01:07:05That's pretty awesome.
01:07:06He actually only really reared up
01:07:07with a rider on his back.
01:07:09And that was usually the day.
01:07:11There is a there is a fantastic picture.
01:07:15And I'm sure Katie will be able to find it somewhere.
01:07:17If not, I find it of him rearing up so high.
01:07:20Pepe has his arms around his neck
01:07:23and his feet hanging off him.
01:07:25He was a much better rarer than Fusayichi Pegasus ever was
01:07:29because he knew exactly just how high to go
01:07:32and scare the bejesus out of his rider
01:07:35without falling over.
01:07:36That was he was very talented, not only as a racehorse,
01:07:39but he would have been the world's best rarer
01:07:43that anybody ever saw in their lifetime.
01:07:45And he would scare the bejesus out of every single person
01:07:47that sat on his back.
01:07:48And he took pride.
01:07:50Scared the bejesus out of me
01:07:50when Baffert handed me the lead tank.
01:07:52I guarantee you that.
01:07:53See the things you learn on the TDN Riders Room.
01:07:56Randy Moss holding Point Given.
01:07:58He's worth a zillion dollars
01:08:00and he's known for rearing up.
01:08:01And Randy, oh my goodness.
01:08:03But you came out of it unscathed.
01:08:05So this weekend's racing, Churchill Downs is back.
01:08:08They have a big card.
01:08:09One of the big races there will be
01:08:11the Louisville of Thoroughbreds, et cetera.
01:08:13Bango will try to tie the record for most wins ever.
01:08:16Churchill Downs has 10 right now going for 11th.
01:08:20The Belmont at Aqueduct meet starts
01:08:21with the Jockey Club Oaks.
01:08:24But Randy, all eyes will also be on Woodbine.
01:08:27Three win-in-your-in races for the Breeders' Cup.
01:08:29I know your NBC team is going to cover that.
01:08:31What can you tell us about
01:08:32what to expect at Woodbine this weekend?
01:08:34Yeah, we'll be showing two of the three.
01:08:36We'll be showing the Woodbine mile,
01:08:38probably the Natalma for two-year-old fillies at a mile.
01:08:43The summer stakes for two-year-olds in general
01:08:48will also be in a mile, all three races on Saturday.
01:08:52In the Woodbine mile, it looks like a pretty short field.
01:08:56Charlie Appleby, who won the race last year
01:08:59with Modern Games, is expected to bring a horse
01:09:01by the name of Master of the Seas,
01:09:04who may be scaring away some of the competition.
01:09:07Cheryl Spite, who ran in the Woodbine mile last year
01:09:10and finished fourth, went on to be second to Modern Games
01:09:13in the Breeders' Cup mile, is also expected to run
01:09:16in the Woodbine mile.
01:09:17And Mark Cassie has a horse named Ice Chocolat,
01:09:20who comes off a really good third behind Casa Creed
01:09:24in his most recent race at Saratoga.
01:09:26In the Natalma, Mark Cassie is expected to have a huge hand,
01:09:31as you would expect.
01:09:32But once again, Charlie Appleby,
01:09:35bringing over a horse named Dazzling Star.
01:09:38And in the summer stakes, which Appleby has won
01:09:41each of the last two years, Mysterious Night
01:09:43and Al Bar for Godolphin,
01:09:45he is bringing over a horse called Musical Act.
01:09:49Now, Musical Act might have his hands full, though,
01:09:51in the summer, even though he's trained by Charlie Appleby.
01:09:54With a horse named My Boy Prince from the Mark Cassie barn,
01:09:58who was a 14-length winner last time out
01:10:01in the Simcoe stakes at Woodbine.
01:10:04He's running on synthetic in all three of his lifetime starts.
01:10:08Of course, the summer stakes will be run on grass.
01:10:12So Appleby Cassie, I've just got to bet that blindly, right?
01:10:16And Kevin Attard.
01:10:18Kevin Attard also has a lot of horses nominated for both races.
01:10:22And what's kind of interesting here,
01:10:23and what's going on at Woodbine this summer
01:10:25with the two-year-olds,
01:10:26the fillies are much better than the cones.
01:10:31As a matter of fact, Mark Cassie ran one, two
01:10:35in the Colts division of the prep,
01:10:37the wide open two-year-old division of the prep,
01:10:40which was called the Soaring Free with fillies, obviously.
01:10:46And now he's thinking about running at least one
01:10:49and maybe two fillies in the summer stakes,
01:10:51in addition to about four fillies
01:10:54that he has being pointed for the Natal.
01:10:56The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by XBee TV.
01:11:00This week's XBee TV Work of the Week is Anarchist,
01:11:03the winner of the Grade 2 Pat O'Brien Handicap
01:11:06on August the 26th.
01:11:07My birthday, guys, just in case you forgot.
01:11:10This horse earned a position in the starting gate
01:11:12of the Big Ass Fans Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile with that win.
01:11:16And he looked outstanding in his most recent work
01:11:19on Sunday at Del Mar going four furlongs in 48 flat.
01:11:24XBee TV, in case you didn't know, guys, is free.
01:11:28We shoot hundreds of workouts per week around the country
01:11:33and post them at nochargeonxbetev.com.
01:11:37You just got to sign up and get an account.
01:11:40It is free and the number one tool you need.
01:11:43We'll be right back after this message from XBee TV.
01:11:53All the thrills.
01:12:20Fraction of the bills.
01:12:25Experience the power of the partnership.
01:12:30Change your life, make new friends,
01:12:32and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:12:37West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard
01:12:40in racing partnerships.
01:12:41Visit westpointtb.com.
01:12:45The TD and Writers' Room also brought you
01:12:47The TD and Writers' Room also brought you
01:12:49by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:12:51Joining a West Point partnership can vault you
01:12:53into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:12:56Last week, West Point and partners had five winners.
01:13:00The most important of which, of course,
01:13:02was Integration, who won the Grade 3 $300,000 Virginia Derby.
01:13:08He was a $700,000 Saratoga Yearling
01:13:12and he won the Virginia Derby at Colonial going away
01:13:15in track record time.
01:13:16The other winners for West Point this weekend,
01:13:18let's go through them here.
01:13:19Ohana won an allowance at Colonial.
01:13:22They also had three Maiden Special Weight winners,
01:13:25Independence Avenue at Colonial, Soho,
01:13:28and also the impressive Slider.
01:13:30Both of those MSW winners at Del Mar.
01:13:34West Point, to no one's surprise, currently shopping
01:13:37the Canelun September sale.
01:13:39Check out westpointtb.com for available horses.
01:13:47Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:13:53I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.
01:13:56I want to thank our Green Group Guests of the Week,
01:13:58David Lambert, our co-producers, Katie Petruniak
01:14:01and Anthony LaRocca, and our editors,
01:14:04Aliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:14:06Thanks so much for tuning us in.
01:14:08We'll talk to you next week.