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00:00Welcome along to the Conversations Podcast here with the TDN.
00:04I'm joined by Damien Burns of Lodge Park Stud,
00:07where we look back on the 2024 breeding season
00:10and we look ahead to what we might expect from 2025.
00:20What a coup for us, Damien, welcome along.
00:23Thanks Brian, nice to be here.
00:26I mean, we can't really look back on the sales from last year
00:31without looking at the record-breaking Wooten Basset colt.
00:35I mean, it was a fantastic year for you on the farm.
00:39I mean, you know, when you think of Lodge Park,
00:41we think of new approach, we think of wows,
00:43we think of all the top-class horses who've been coming from that nursery.
00:47I mean, if you wanted to give us a little bit of a brief history
00:50for those who may not be aware.
00:55Yeah, well, my grandparents bought the farm.
01:01They came from Northern Ireland, bought the farm in the early 70s.
01:05And I guess they were traders at heart initially.
01:10And then they had three sons who were here with them.
01:17And Seamus, Morris and Patrick.
01:22They now are basically, Morris moved up to Rathascar stud
01:29and Patrick moved to New Orleans house.
01:32And actually my grandparents moved up to Rathascar as well.
01:36Then my parents took over Lodge Park.
01:40So I guess in the 80s, they had a few horses in training,
01:46the likes of Park Appeal, Park Express in my grandfather's colours.
01:51And then when they all moved up to Kildare,
01:55my parents took over here and raised the likes of Classic Park
02:02who won the Irish Giddies, Aidan O'Brien's first classic winner.
02:05And then, so we've traded away, good days and bad.
02:11But, you know, the show kept on the road.
02:14And now there's here, there's myself and my brother Jamie are at Lodge Park.
02:20And my brother Ronan is in Harbourstown House up in Kildare.
02:25And then my brother Paddy is in Lough Town.
02:28So the old, there would be sort of an amount of stock,
02:38which would be the Lodge Park stock, which would be my mother's stock.
02:42And myself and Jamie have been looking after that.
02:46We kind of keep the numbers pretty tight.
02:48There's about 10 to 12 mares in that.
02:50And I suppose gradually we have all started to build our own.
02:55The sons have started to build our own broodmare bands.
02:58So I have, we're about 400 acres here in Lodge Park.
03:02And there's part of the farm, which I kind of take care of.
03:06And then there's another part that Jamie takes care of.
03:10He would day-to-day take care of more of my mother's stock.
03:14And I have kind of built in my own bit as well, you know.
03:18So what you're telling me was that 4 million in your back pocket or was it?
03:22Very much not in my back pocket, I'm afraid.
03:25So I suppose like we've all chipped in to help the, what would be Lodge Park, you know,
03:34which would be, like I said, from my mother's business.
03:38And we helped out with that.
03:41And then we've kind of had to, we had to start out.
03:47We kind of, we obviously had use of the facility, which is a great thing.
03:52But we've all had to go out and buy our own stock maker.
03:57We started off, myself and Ron started off pinhooking, that sort of thing,
04:00just to gradually building up cash flow.
04:02Like it's obviously a lot easier to do when you have the facility there to use.
04:07And you have probably some sort of a safety net that, you know,
04:10maybe you're not going to be seen let go hungry if didn't quite, you know.
04:15But no, we all had to, we've all had to make our own bets, you know.
04:18And just for your own self, I mean, there's horses there that I'd associate with you.
04:24Signora Cabello, Ocean Road, Regional, the group winning sprinter.
04:29And then you've got Bright Stripes.
04:30And I just think the latter is more interesting because when I dug into that pedigree,
04:35you know, the mare was a tough, hardy mare, but she wasn't the most obvious mare.
04:39But, you know, she probably spoke to the philosophies that she, you know,
04:43built up in tough, soundness, good race horses.
04:46And she's after, you know, producing Bright Stripes in there,
04:49who could be a, well, he's already a group horse and, you know,
04:53proper middle distance type for the year ahead.
04:56Yeah, look, I suppose there's no,
05:03I bought that mare myself.
05:05I went out in a bit of a limb.
05:06I'd say no one else would have touched her because she was coming off the track.
05:11She was a stakes place mare.
05:14She just, I mean, her pedigree, there was just a, half the page was white.
05:20There was nothing under it, you know.
05:22But I had watched that, I had watched her race.
05:24And it is something that I really pay a lot of attention to.
05:27She was tough.
05:28She tried her hardest.
05:29She used to go from the front and put her head down and would not let them.
05:32She won seven races from 42.
05:35And I just, like I said, anyone would tell you, you just can't touch that pedigree.
05:39But I just said, you know what, if she brings that bit to the party,
05:44I'll try and get breed race horses out of her.
05:48And so she's had five foals.
05:51She's had two black type horses.
05:55And her two-year-old there this year, he won in Goodwood and was fourth in the stakes race.
06:01So he's almost three black type horses from her five foals, you know.
06:06But look, it's not, that was, she's probably an outlier in what I tend to do.
06:15But I just, she was just one of those that I just couldn't leave behind.
06:18She was just so tough and hardy, you know.
06:20But she probably hasn't been, she missed a couple of years.
06:25So I probably, you know, just didn't go for whatever.
06:28And I probably haven't really commercially,
06:31financially got the benefit of breeding those horses out of her, you know.
06:35And she's, you know, she'd need to.
06:38So it is, although it's a nice story, commercially, it's been, I mean,
06:46profit, but nothing, nothing life-changing, you know what I mean?
06:51Well, just the reason why I really think she's interesting is because it has become really difficult to source the raw material.
06:56It was Paul McCartan who brought that up to me recently.
06:59And, you know, he's a man that I know.
07:01But he just thinks that those mares, they're not coming on the market anymore.
07:04So you really have to think outside the box.
07:06And you, who's trying to build an organic broodmare band and keep it tight and keep quality up to kind of facilitate for this market.
07:13I mean, you know, how have you found recruiting mares and did you buy many last year?
07:20I mean, personally, I bought one mare last year.
07:23Get back to her in a second.
07:25But I guess, like I said, when I started out to try and get cash flow going when I was maybe early 20s,
07:34myself and my brother Ronan started pin hooking a bit together.
07:37Just, you know, I think we bought her first horse.
07:41And I think dad paid for it.
07:43And then we've got a few quid profit and we paid him back, you know, the initial outlay.
07:48And we kind of went on from there, you know.
07:50And, you know, we got to a stage where we got a couple of nice touches.
07:55And then we started to make a broodmare together, etc.
07:58So it took.
08:01So I suppose it maybe was a little bit easier then.
08:06But you've when you're starting out, you know, 20, 30, 40 or whatever, or even less,
08:13sometimes you're going to have to forgive something, you know what I mean?
08:18And luckily, things have gone relatively well.
08:21And now I suppose you can.
08:25I've been forgiving a little bit less, you know, as far as I suppose the one thing you always have to remember,
08:33unless someone has died.
08:35Most snares in the sales are effectively being called by somebody, you know, you know, unless there's not that many people,
08:42there's the odd one whose business model is to race and sell, you know, OK, this Deceptor sessions, etc.
08:48have maybe changed that a little bit that people are going, OK.
08:51But I'm afraid that someone is getting is going to Deceptor sessions that there are two or three million.
08:57I'm not going to be buying them. But, you know, Barrett, someone has died.
09:01And again, when some when it is a dispersal, usually that's a premium.
09:04So like I said, most of these horses are effectively calls, even though they might be on the higher end.
09:10So, look, I've got to the stage locally where, you know, I've built my I've I kind of keep my numbers about 10, 10 mares or so.
09:22And like, we're very much here that we try and keep the numbers tight because we have a certain way of raising stock.
09:29And. There is only a certain number that to do it properly.
09:34You know, we're winter all our foals yearlings out, you know, have to get them out as much as possible, but out on good, solid ground, you know.
09:43So you you can do it. We don't want to overstock the farm.
09:47You know, we're kind of we'll we'll sort of it's you will use cattle and sheep, etc. to get the grass down in the in the summertime.
09:56But then you try and really have a really good for the winter in that you will.
10:01So the horses are really thriving through the winter. You know, I think it's important, you know, because it's it's rather than waiting for April or May to get to driving that you're actually they're really building all the time.
10:14But anyway, sorry, a bit tangential there, but they they. So, look, I'm always I'm always.
10:23Yeah, I look, I'm always kind of I could go to the mare sales one year and buy three and I could go two years without buying one.
10:31You know, I didn't either. Right. So, you know, so I bought a mare from Godolphin called Dubai Love.
10:39Yeah, she's a stakes winner by Night Thunder. And she's a mare I'd kind of known quite well. I didn't really expect her to come up in the sales.
10:48She was the top price price bowl in Night Thunder's first crop. And I remember very well, I loved her actually, you know, followed her in to try and buy her.
10:56But Godolphin bought her and she was a good, tough race mare, you know, multiple stakes mare.
11:04And I've seen the stock from her mother again, like, look, when you're when you're a commercial breeder, you know.
11:13The you have to do two things you for me, you have to breed racehorses, which you also have to breed sales horses.
11:20So if if you're. If like I kind of get that, that made the dam of that mare, I'd seen a lot of stock out of her.
11:29I'd seen there was a nice two darned horse was actually beside us at the early sales out of her.
11:33And she had she had had stock by their other stallions that sold well.
11:39Her by eight fall was nice last year. You know, the mare was breeding.
11:43The Dubai Love's mother was breeding very good stock.
11:47I knew this filly was a very good fall herself. She was by night as thunder.
11:52She is effectively carrying her first fall.
11:55So look, I didn't. I didn't think I'd be able to buy her, to be honest.
11:59But what I had to forgive, like I said, you had to forgive something.
12:03She had she had lost her for her first her first fall.
12:07So it is it was when I was born and had a an issue.
12:12And, you know, so.
12:15That I think I've paid 180,000 for, I would felt without that history.
12:22Yeah, I would say. You were probably closer to double that for a stakes winning night under smashing looking from a good looking family, you know.
12:32Or did you say, pardon? Did she have a cover?
12:35Yes. So she was back in fall and won one cover to Palace Pier.
12:39Oh, yeah. Who look who commercially hadn't the best year last year in sales ring, but was still a very good racehorse.
12:48And I'd like to I'd hope that.
12:55Being such a good looking mare that maybe she might breed one of the better ones by him.
12:59And obviously he has is he has his chance as a very good racehorse, you know.
13:03But I suppose, like I said, I had to forgive something.
13:07What I forgave, what I forgave was her first that her first pregnancy didn't go particularly well.
13:14I did a lot of research on what happened.
13:18And look, who knows? We'll see what happens. But it was one of those things.
13:22But what I won't forgive on is is physical.
13:27What I won't forgive on is temperament, you know, soundness, et cetera, all those things.
13:35And so I suppose the fact that it was my own money I was spending, if it doesn't work out, it's on me.
13:44And I'm fine with that. You know, whereas I suppose if you're buying for someone else, you couldn't.
13:49You can say, listen, take a chance on this one, you know.
13:52So that kind of was my next question. I wonder what were the basic principles when you do select a mare?
13:57You said, you know, the physical is a big thing. Soundness.
14:02Absolutely. Obviously. Of course, you want as much as you possibly can.
14:08The non-negotiables are at this stage. Look, I've like I said, my broodmare band is quite tight.
14:16So I kind of work on the. How would you say, like commercially?
14:22Look, you need you need the proper stock going to the sales. So every October or whatever, September, October, August,
14:28wherever you have a lorry going, even here with yearlings going to the sales.
14:33Yeah. And I always say, well, if you want what's right going out the gate, then you need to what's coming in the gate.
14:39Yeah. December needs to be absolutely right. So it's like it doesn't always work out.
14:44If you only have the right stuff in the gate, hopefully what's going out the gate will be as close to as best you can, you know.
14:51But look, so. Absolutely no. At this stage, no compromise on physical, you know.
15:01Try not to compromise on temperament. Soundness, any soundness issue at all.
15:06You know, look, it's like I said, my numbers are small, so I cannot be dealing with.
15:13I just don't. I want I want to be when I'm choosing styles. I want to be able to bring everything right to the party.
15:20And if he has an issue, you know, maybe maybe my mayor will start.
15:25We'll look after it. You know what I mean? I can give you a little bit more confidence, you know.
15:29Yeah. That model of smaller numbers and higher quality seems to be not only in the mayor game.
15:35I know you don't do as much pin up anymore, but certainly the full game.
15:39I think the Oman sounds the tally hoes of this world. I think they're.
15:43I don't think it's evident that they're going to the market now to try and buy that hundred and fifty grand fold.
15:48It might make half a million at the earnings sales. Is that that's just the way the thing is gone.
15:53Maybe you could never get as much for the good horse nowadays.
15:57But the middle to lower tier horses have never been worth less.
16:00Is that kind of the way it's gone or it is definitely the way it's gone.
16:04Look, I think it's probably a function of the world economy.
16:08Really, you know, I mean, the the top one percent or whatever is, you know, they're rich and getting richer.
16:16And we are a luxury product.
16:20And those people want the best.
16:24They want whatever, you know, whatever the best thing is.
16:27And that is fair enough. And so it's so that is where the money is, you know, and globally.
16:37And we have to we have to cater for that market.
16:40It is loaded. It is not simple to do, you know.
16:45And I'm afraid it like it is tough.
16:50I mean, the bottom end is tough, but I mean, I don't I do not see it changing.
16:56So I guess that's to have a few chance here, maybe around the place or not.
17:00Of course it does. Yeah. No, no.
17:03Look, I have I've had chapters and I probably still have.
17:06But I, I don't have I probably I mean, reading is about being patient.
17:15Obviously, that is the number one thing when because it takes time.
17:20But if a mayor is not performing, I'm not too patient with her, you know, because it's because I said you just like,
17:29I guess like you can you can try and be smart and you can get if you have to breed those elite models, you know,
17:37like it's not necessarily all about spending fortunes on nominations,
17:44but you have to be very, very smart about about it, you know, and.
17:50You just hope your mayor is bringing a bit to the party, you know, that's like you see.
17:56Look, there was you see.
17:59But our dads and territories and and and things like that and who are, you know,
18:05horses making 500,000, 700,000, I mean, it is it's still it's still doable, you know, but.
18:14But it is it's tough, you know, I mean, I want I don't object to I wouldn't object to using a cheaper stallion,
18:23but I'd really have to feel strongly about it for a certain reason, you know, and have done over the years,
18:32you know, but it is definitely getting it is definitely getting tighter, you know.
18:36Yeah. And, you know, I thought last year some of the models you mentioned the territories,
18:42they're making all that money. Some of the models did make plenty of money and that was encouraging for breeders.
18:48Yeah, I actually underpaid him as well.
18:50Oh, did you? Yeah.
18:53OK, well, you've got to bring that one up.
18:56Yeah, you know, as well. So, but yeah, but we won't mention it tomorrow.
19:01We won't mention the war, but I don't think that will that year in particular will will determine too much what you do go for,
19:08because you always breed for the track and you always breed for the track.
19:11So, I mean, where would your meetings be going this year?
19:14Like, I don't think you are a slave to fashion.
19:19No, look, if you you definitely I found that's I suppose.
19:26Look, I've been stood at stable doors long enough and at sales and you just I've learned.
19:36Luckily, I suppose it's a privilege to have been able to grow up in a thriving commercial enterprise,
19:45which is what I thought. So, you know, I've also seen there's it hasn't always been perfect either, you know?
19:52Yeah. But what I have learned is that it's when you breed those racehorses, you that's like that's what ambassadors.
20:03OK, he made huge money and and a lot of his relations have made big money in the sales ring.
20:08But like, why did they make big money in the sales ring?
20:10It's because New Approach won the Derby and it's because Wise won the Oaks.
20:14I mean, that's that's why, you know, it was there was a you know, those people going, well, don't you?
20:23That's Jerry. You've sold the top price Philly and the top price cold historically in in Europe.
20:29And, you know, that's great. That's great. But I said we sold.
20:33I said they were the only ones who've sold a Derby winner and an Oaks winner since the turn of the century.
20:38Out of this, out of the sales, too, you know, that's that's the reason which comes first.
20:43You know, it's actually putting that horse on the track.
20:46So when you breed a lead horse like New Approach, that's when people that's it's I've I've learned that that's that is what drives everything.
20:56That is, you know, I mean, it's it doesn't it's it makes sense.
21:00But, you know, if you're not if you're not breeding those resources, people are going to walk.
21:04They're not, you know, they're not going to come back to you.
21:07And that's absolutely fair enough. You know, you have a short shelf life in essence.
21:11Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And even like, you know, with a young mare, if you do the.
21:18If you you might you might get a few quidos for a first time round or second time round.
21:24But if you if she's not if she's not doing the business, she's gone.
21:29She's going to be gone in a few years. And I'd rather I'd rather be getting getting a little bit for the first few and then getting the big one.
21:38Like, you know, I kind of work on it.
21:42Like it's not a very strict thing, but if you get a new mare, if you spend the first five years, let's say if you if you're going to keep her.
21:49Yeah. And that's the that's the time you get a new mare.
21:53You spend the first five years. You your only thing you should be saying is.
21:58I want to breed a racehorse. I have to get that racehorse.
22:01OK, you're going to have commercial considerations. You'd like to be getting paid for them as you go.
22:07So you could spend that first five years or so. Like I said, this is very vague.
22:10It's not, you know, it's not very strict, but you spend the first five years.
22:14You really try and get those racehorses on the ground.
22:18OK, if that's if that has worked, you've got the racehorse in the ground.
22:21OK, she's still here. OK, if she hasn't done it, she's not here anymore.
22:25That's it. She's not good enough. She's still here.
22:28She's bred those black couple of black type horses. OK, next five years.
22:31Now we got to make a you know, we got to reap the rewards of what.
22:35So you're going to try and make make a few quid.
22:37So you're going to make her a little bit more commercially for a few years.
22:41Again, you're trying to breed those racehorses.
22:43But, you know, you have to reap what you've sown that few years.
22:47And that's going to keep your. And then she's getting a little bit longer in the tooth.
22:51She's still she's really still doing the business for you.
22:53The next four or five years, let's say if she's still around.
22:56Maybe you're going to make her to maybe keep a filly to go to the next generation to do it again, you know.
23:02Well, you do. You have made a success of it by going to the top stallions every year.
23:07Is there something you're going against the grain this year?
23:10No, it's just actually I was only thinking about it.
23:13I'm not I'm not using Australia this year and I'm actually picking myself.
23:18So I would love to use him. I think he's praising price for the standard of stallion that he is.
23:23You know. Yeah. Yeah.
23:26Look, he needs a certain for me. He's a certain sort of mare.
23:29I have I have a yearling by him and I should say mares back in Fulton.
23:34But it's a sharp, a sharp, a dancer mare who is a little bit flighty as well.
23:44She'd have she'd be sharp mentally as well.
23:47And she was kind of six for a long mare.
23:49But, you know, and I think like Australia, you're getting serious for me.
23:54You're getting serious bang for your buck.
23:57But look, you don't want to be sent him a big slow thing either.
24:02You know what I mean? He's not his, you know.
24:05But I mean, for what he gets your ratings wise, et cetera, for 10 grand.
24:10I mean, like I said, I'm kicking myself, but I have only a small groomer band.
24:13It just happens. It just doesn't fit this year, you know.
24:16Yeah. And like there's lots of other there's lots of stallions that, you know.
24:22I go, geez, I'd like to use him, but it's just, oh, well, that's it.
24:26It's it's not it just doesn't fit that particular mare.
24:29You know, so, look, what else am I using this year?
24:33I have I have a nice mare going to young mare going to no nay never again.
24:42She like obviously is a very good stallion.
24:48But he's at the mare, you know, again, you have to you have to use your head.
24:56She's a big action.
24:59She has a very good mind, has bred her first few foals have had a very good mind on her.
25:05High chaparral mare, young stakes, black type high chaparral mare.
25:09Guarno is it?
25:11Look, she's she's she's just starting.
25:15She's her new bay mate 390 there has gone to Andrew Balding last year's yearling.
25:23I just I just also like relates.
25:26She's she's very good mentally, you know, because in other days can, you know,
25:30that whole scat daddy line can be quite, you know,
25:33you wouldn't be sending anything to too hot to them from my opinion, you know,
25:38trying to do the right thing.
25:39But I liked as well that in his first crop.
25:44And his first crop is top price yearling was actually out of a high chap mare,
25:48and his top price yearling this year was out of a high chap mare as well.
25:52Look, that's that's I'm not really that much into crosses, et cetera, but it just it was.
25:58And he's bred armor and a few other horses out of high chaps as well, you know?
26:04Yeah, it's kind of ironic that maybe it was the fact that he was put in the shade somewhat to to Wooten Basset,
26:09but it's ironic he had a group home winner in Whistlejacket.
26:13But still, you could argue that he is a bit of value this year and no one ever.
26:19Yeah, look, I mean, he doesn't cover huge books, so he's always been probably priced relatively high.
26:27OK, you know, you know, that's basic economics, I guess, because he's not going to cover.
26:32He's not going to handle the massive books.
26:35But. Yeah, look, he's he's he's a very good horse again, good two year olds.
26:41And obviously, then you have the likes of Alcol Free and who can train on it and do good things, too, you know?
26:47Yeah. But but he's a young mare trying to give give her every chance to, like I said,
26:52first five years trying to put those racehorses on the ground, you know?
26:55Yeah. And then how would that have affected you when you were pinhooking?
27:00I mean, what was what would have been the philosophy when you were pinhooking?
27:03Were you still trying to buy the racehorse?
27:06You know, might be as easy to do that as to make money pinhooking when you're not following fashion.
27:13Yeah. Look, no, look, the basic basic rule of pinhooking is, you know, buy low, sell high.
27:21You know, look, you don't.
27:25Pinhook is a little bit different. Yeah, that is that is the bottom line.
27:28But at the same time, if you aren't breeding those racehorses, you know,
27:34again, that's not going to last too long.
27:36Yeah. Well, a lot of what I'm saying is you might say, oh, it's very idealistic.
27:41Oh, you breed these racehorses, et cetera, et cetera.
27:43But I mean, you have to eat and you have to keep the cash flow going.
27:46So, yes, you know, it's if you have a broodmare band that is, you know, that some young one,
27:53some young mares, some, you know, mares, you know, maybe 10, 12, 13 and then maybe a couple of older girls,
28:01you know, they might all be at different stages and some are some are paying for what you might be doing with the others, you know?
28:06Yeah. Where do you sit with stats in selecting the stallion?
28:11And, you know, there's all sorts of different ways to interpret stallions and how to perform these days.
28:17But, you know, I think you just said that you're not huge on maybe nicks or something.
28:21Maybe I picked you up wrong there. But what do you take into consideration when you're when you're looking at it?
28:27Well, like when I come to when it comes to nicks, I think it's like it's.
28:34You know, I suppose it's a it's a it's I find very simplistic, you know, I I find it.
28:44How would you say if there's a nick out there? Go.
28:48I'm more I'm not. It's not so much. OK, that's working. It's why is that working?
28:53What's the reason for that? And like you see, like, OK, there was a snake of Galileo on top of Dane Hill, you know?
29:02And I mean, look, it just so happens with the age profile, et cetera.
29:07Most of those well-bred Dane Hill mares were, you know, in a certain ownership with access.
29:13And it was the best bred ones were of breeding age.
29:17And they ended up in the same ownership as Galileo.
29:21And he was covering the best of them. Yes.
29:24The reason what I put down as well, though, is the reason for that would be like Dane Hill.
29:31They were I think the two signers really suited each other very well in that Dane Hills could be a little bit coarse.
29:38They often have a nice bit of bone and they could be a bit upright back of the knee.
29:43And then you had Galileo who and Dane Hill had that bit of speed.
29:47And then you had Galileo who probably appreciated the faster mare.
29:52Maybe a little bit more style. That's whole sadder as well as lying a bit more style.
29:56It's softer, the patterns, et cetera. And it was probably a marriage made in heaven.
30:00And then, like I said, opportunity of of all the well-bred ones coming and hitting.
30:04So, of course, it's a fantastic cross.
30:06But I think you need to you need to dig down a bit more than, oh, that cross works.
30:11You know, when it comes to.
30:16It's when you make a decision, like I said.
30:20On that Camelot meeting or the Nonaenever meeting, you're trying to really match up temperament, physical.
30:26I mean, they are the most important things. But then I like I'll always I will go into all the stats.
30:33I think when you're making any decisions in this game, you know, you need to bring everything together.
30:37You know, I don't think I don't think you can make make a decision on a meeting from an office.
30:47You know, yeah, totally. You know what I mean?
30:50Without actually, of course, you can do it.
30:53But I think to do it really well, you actually need to know that mare.
30:57You need to know our stock. You need to. So, you know, you need to experience it.
31:01I mean, it's and sitting inside doing things as a computer.
31:05It's. Like, I do it, you know, I go through all the stats, I go, you know, but I think it's you have it's you have to bring everything together to try and get it.
31:14And it's still you're still dealing with mother nature, but to try and get as right as you possibly can.
31:19So, like, I do look, I look at all the science statistically, you know, and then I look at things like, you know,
31:26the opportunity that the Italians get and some are covering much smaller books than others.
31:30I mean, I pay absolutely no heed to the numbers, the numbers of winners.
31:37So the numbers are very little to the number of stakes winners.
31:40It's it's the percentage of six winners is what's important.
31:44You know, I mean, if you've covered 250 mares and you've got 10 stakes winners, I mean,
31:51you have not half as good of a job as the one who's covered 80 and got five.
31:56You know, I'm sorry. That's not actually not correct.
32:00But, you know, you know, what about ratings and things like that?
32:05Yeah, of course, it's. There's.
32:10They can be true, can't they? Yeah, I know.
32:13Listen, again, it's I look into everything, but I just I do feel that for me as a breeder, I feel that those things are out there.
32:23But what is a little bit what I would love to see and which is a bit harder to access is your what you how would you call it soundness?
32:36You know, it's just I think it's I think it's doable and it is out there a little bit.
32:41But how do you measure soundness? I mean, OK, what's your full crop?
32:45How many is in round two? How many in round three? You know, what's the percentage of horses that actually hit the track?
32:51And then and then the ones that hit the track, how many times did they run?
32:56You know, I think it's this is the stuff I would really like to know.
33:01And because some stallions have reputations, you know, they could be flashed in the pan.
33:08But I'd really like to. I'd really like to see that to be more upfront and.
33:16I was exposed to as breeders. These are the horses they run.
33:21They most of the stallions horses hit the track and they run plenty and.
33:28They have they progress from race to race, like again, there's this is where your average ratings.
33:35There's some stallions and the horse could hit its top rating on a second start or its first start.
33:42And you look at that rating of God is statistically great.
33:45Yeah. But I mean, he's running around four times in two years and he flashed.
33:52He came. He was ninety five first time, one hundred and two second time.
33:57And then we didn't see him for a year. And he and I think I didn't see him for a year.
34:03And then he ran to 82. And then the next time he ran to 70, it was never seen again.
34:09I'm exaggerating for effect, but it's good.
34:14I think there's my go from here, here, here, as if as if it was a Willie Mullins novice hurdler.
34:21Just yeah. Well, I don't know what that is. I have no clue.
34:25I'm sorry. I don't know. I don't know what that is.
34:30I just have more of a clue before I joined the TDM. But I know I'm I'm joking.
34:34I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm sorry. This is your talk.
34:37You're talking to the place we're walking the barricade from.
34:42That's true. That was not that was not the plan, by the way.
34:46Anyway. He's taken over now, isn't he? Yeah.
34:50Is there anything more? I suppose the one thing I would look back on is like when you look at these horses,
34:55North Capella, Ocean Road, regional, you're talking there, Camacho, Australia, territories.
35:02So here's one. I'll put you on the spot. Give us one or two stallions who you think are performing well on stats.
35:10Or am I putting you completely on the spot? Something under the radar.
35:14Could be some people reading or watching this and they might just want to pick your brain.
35:20I often I often would. But, you know, there is not one that I this year that is jumping at me.
35:28OK. No, genuinely, I don't mean to be. Look, I am using I am using to see the moon next year.
35:39OK. I think he's probably slipped to a fee that is, you know, definitely not more workable than last year.
35:51But, you know, I think he's very interesting at his price.
35:55Did you get well paid for one at the Orby last year? Or am I? No.
36:00Yeah. Yeah. OK. OK. She wasn't she wasn't she wasn't a perfect specimen.
36:06OK. But I actually we have we have another one to sell this year.
36:10I mean, he's OK. I have no objection to using the more staying type stallion.
36:17Actually, this year, probably the matings probably got slightly more towards the.
36:24The mile mile and a quarter type horse, you know, even my laugh.
36:27I've no like like I said, I don't. I don't like the horse.
36:32If I'm breathing a mile and a half horse or a five or less, it doesn't matter.
36:36This is a good horse. That's what I really am worried about.
36:38You know, if you're on a limited budget and it's it's high risk strategy.
36:42But like the historically the one way to make to almost guarantee yourself making money is to use that.
36:52That horse who's going to be successful before he has runners.
36:55You know, that's Bush. Who knows what that one is?
37:00You know, but historically I've seen it like over years.
37:03That is the way, you know. Yeah.
37:05Well, what I've got from this conversation is that the philosophy of large parks, though, is all about producing racehorses.
37:12I think you you you use the word idealistic and perhaps it is idealistic to to to other people.
37:18But I think in the long term, you know, it takes a lot of hard work to build up a reputation and you can lose it overnight.
37:25But, you know, by producing the racehorses, not so much the sales horses, you know, people keep coming back to you.
37:32And I'd have a wager that Wooten Basset was fantastic and it was meant a lot to you.
37:38And obviously it's a huge achievement to have a record breaking horse through the ring.
37:42But I doubt it compares to seeing your horse like new approach or was storming up Taylor-Depson.
37:49No, it definitely doesn't. What I would say to you is, though, again.
37:55Look, you as a mare who breeds your racehorses, if as a commercial breeder, a mare who breeds your racehorses but doesn't breed your sales horses is no go to you.
38:07OK. OK. Like Classic Park.
38:12You know, she bred us. She won the Irish guineas.
38:16But she won the Irish guineas. She bred Walking Park. She bred Soon. Galileo Fili won a stakes race.
38:22Seventy five grand she made as a yearling. Seventy or seventy five.
38:28She bred the racehorses, just didn't operate particularly well commercially, you know.
38:35And we have none of that line left now, you know.
38:40So, yes, of course, you need to breed racehorses.
38:44But if they don't look the part, you aren't going to get paid because it's bloody competitive up in that sales complex, you know.
38:51Yeah, it is. You know, so like it's the mare, the golden geese are the ones who can do both.
38:59So that is what was a alluring park.
39:02She's she's still here, but she's not breeding anymore. But you think of alluring park.
39:07You think of Chastity in Newsels. You think of Prudencia in Mosul.
39:17They're they're the ones. I mean, they are. They are not the greatest mares that have ever set foot on the planet.
39:28You know, they're they're elite. They're absolutely. But like, they're not.
39:35They haven't bred, you know, five group one winners or they're not urban.
39:39See, let's say, you know, both two as a commercial breeder.
39:44They are. They are the ones because they are breeding you.
39:47Those really good racehorses. But they're breeding those proper looking stock.
39:53Well, et cetera, et cetera, as well.
39:55OK, so just finally ask you looking ahead towards the year, if you were to have any aims, are you a type of guy who has aims and goals?
40:04I mean, what would be the aim for Lodge Park and for yourself? Just continue?
40:10Yeah, look, I mean, yeah, you need black type horses every year.
40:14Yeah, you know, there's like our numbers aren't big, you know, so.
40:18And if you just you need to put black type horses on every single year, you know, and there should be some years can be I remember.
40:31In my yard here, just it was I've prepped the first year I prepped the that I was here.
40:37It was 2014 or something like 20, something like that.
40:41Anyway, I mean, the first year anyway, I prepped yearlings here, a yard full of fillies.
40:47And it was Pat, Paddy and Jamie were in the other yard.
40:51They had all the calls. I think I had ten fillies in the yard with various price points.
40:56And, you know, and five of them were stakes horses.
41:01And as it turned out, you know, and they were in different ownerships just happened.
41:05I did the fillies that year. Yeah.
41:07I was just looking like that is, you know, when you could if you can do something like that, you are like your business is going to be OK.
41:16You know, going forward, you know, something tells me you're going to be OK.
41:21Go forward. Really appreciate that.
41:24Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, Brian. Thank you.
41:35.