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00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN, also co-host of Down the Stretch radio show with Dave Johnson
00:37on Sirius XM Radio.
00:39How y'all doing?
00:40Good to see you again, Skipper Bill.
00:42I'm first mate Randy Moss with NBC Sports, decompressing still from Breeders' Cup weekend.
00:48Zoe Kavman here with First Racing and XBTV, delighted to see that the Coolmore Snipers
00:54have not got to Randy Moss this week.
00:58Next week's rant, and stay tuned, because we have another one coming up in approximately
01:0235 minutes, so just don't zoom forward, but Randy's on a rant, just letting you know.
01:09Yeah, we can't wait for that.
01:11I want to remind everybody that our show is sponsored by Keeneland each and every week.
01:15And also, we're going to have some special year-end shows, and one of them, we want to
01:21answer questions from viewers and listeners to the podcast, questions on anything related
01:27to horse racing.
01:28You could give them to all three of us.
01:31You could ask Zoe something about her riding careers, something that a jockey would know
01:35about.
01:36So send those questions to suefinleyatthetdn.com.
01:42Once again, suefinleyatthetdn.com, and we will try to get your questions in.
01:47It should be fun listening to our viewers and seeing what they have to say.
01:52One of the questions I always get, Bill, is has Randy given you that bottle of wine
01:57yet?
01:58That's like one of the questions for me.
02:00Just throwing that in there.
02:01All right.
02:02Well, has he?
02:03No, he has not.
02:04And I pay my bets.
02:05I just haven't been able to do that yet.
02:06Well, you could have brought her.
02:07Couldn't have just done it at the Breeders' Cup?
02:08You guys were together for a couple of days.
02:09Well, I didn't want to bug him because him and Jerry had work to do.
02:20And every time she saw me, I was carrying 50 pounds of paper, so it was no time.
02:26All right.
02:27Guys, as usual, there's not much of intrigue or suspense about the Eclipse Awards with
02:33a couple of perhaps categories that are still to be decided.
02:39I did a column in today's TDN saying that Kenny McPeak should be the trainer of the
02:44year over Chad Brown.
02:46And I said that even though Chad Brown has $29 million in earnings, 46 graded stakes
02:51races, and Ken McPeak has $14.4 million in earnings and eight graded stakes races.
02:57But I'll put it this way.
02:58Ten years from now, no one's going to look back on 2024 and say, wasn't that the year
03:03Chad Brown won $30 million and ran one, two, three, four in the Diana?
03:09No.
03:10They'll be saying, remembering what a year Ken McPeak had and what a special thing that
03:14he did with not only Torpedo Anna, but with Mystic Dan.
03:17He's a guy who's good for the game.
03:20He cares about the sport.
03:21And his accomplishments this year are worth, to me, an Eclipse Award.
03:27I can't argue with you.
03:28I definitely can't argue with you.
03:31Now, if you go by the numbers, Chad Brown to this point has won 204 races from 865.
03:38Kenny McPeak has won 75 for 542.
03:43You know, the fact that winning the Derby and the Oaks in the same year, no one's done
03:48it since Ben Jones.
03:49It's pretty amazing when you really, really think about it because, you know, horse racing,
03:55especially with Eclipse Award voting is always, what have you done for me lately?
04:00You know, you kind of got to rack your brains.
04:02Oh God, yeah.
04:03Mystic Dan won the Derby.
04:05It seems like so long ago that people forget.
04:08Now, if he was still running now and Kenny McPeak said he might run once before the end
04:13of the year, I don't know what in, but there was a quote from him saying that it's what
04:18have you done for me lately?
04:20And I guarantee you could ask a bunch of people who won the Derby this year and they'd have
04:25to think about it.
04:26They really would.
04:27I mean, you don't necessarily want to penalize success like Chad Brown has had.
04:35If people vote for Chad Brown, I'm not going to look at him and say, man, you screwed up.
04:39You made a mistake.
04:40You shouldn't have voted for Chad.
04:41You should have voted for Ken McPeak.
04:44But in the era of the super trainer, if we just go by purse money, one graded stakes,
04:50one grade, one stakes, one, then every year you're going to have either Chad Brown or
04:56Todd Pletcher or Bob Baffert or Brad Cox, basically.
05:00So when you get a year in which somebody does something extra special, I mean, I voted
05:06for John Sadler when Flightline had his big year.
05:11But here you've got a case where we've got the first trainer to sweep the Derby in the
05:16Oaks since 1952.
05:18You've got a guy that's trained, who's almost certainly going to be horse of the year in
05:22Torpedo Anna, a Breeders' Cup winner, his first Breeders' Cup winner in the Distaff.
05:28You know, I mean, oh, by the way, he won the biggest race in America with Mystic Dan.
05:35So I think all of that, to me, is enough to break from the usual method of selecting the
05:44Eclipse Award winning trainer and give it to Ken McPeak.
05:47I totally agree with you, Bill.
05:48Hell, Chad Brown might even vote for him.
05:51I don't know.
05:52It's not going to work.
05:53But it's a good resume.
05:55Here's another race, and this one is really fascinating.
05:59Fierceness versus Sierra Leone for the three-year-old championship.
06:02This is how evenly matched they are.
06:06Sierra Leone was three for seven on the year with two grade one victories and one grade
06:10two victory.
06:12Fierceness was three for six on the year with two grade one victories and the same thing,
06:17one grade two.
06:18They raced against each other four times.
06:21Sierra Leone finished ahead of Fierceness twice.
06:24Fierceness finished ahead of Sierra Leone twice.
06:26I mean, you can't get more evenly matched than that.
06:29It's splitting hairs.
06:30And just like Randy said about I wouldn't be mad at anybody who voted for Chad Brown
06:35for trainer, I wouldn't fault anybody for voting for Fierceness.
06:39But to me that Sierra Leone won on the biggest day and the showdown, even though Fierceness
06:45had this bad trip and was probably best, I got to go with Sierra Leone.
06:51I have no problem with this vote.
06:56I think Fierceness was the best horse in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
06:59And I think four times out of five, when they run against each other, Fierceness is going
07:03to have the advantage just because of his running style compared to Sierra Leone's running
07:08style.
07:09But yes, they split two to two in head-to-head matchups.
07:14And the two races in which Sierra Leone finished ahead of Fierceness happened to be the two
07:18biggest races in America.
07:20The Kentucky Derby and the Breeders' Cup Classic.
07:22And to me, that's enough to give the Eclipse Award to Sierra Leone.
07:27Absolutely.
07:28And I simply put it down.
07:30You definitely hold more credence towards the Derby and the Breeders' Cup Classic.
07:35He won the Classic and maybe he could have, should have won the Derby given a straight
07:39trip.
07:40So it's a slam dunk for me with Sierra Leone.
07:43Can you hear those dogs?
07:44Those are the tiniest little goddamn Yorkies you've ever seen in your life.
07:50And they yap like lions.
07:52Can you hear them?
07:53Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, we got a half Yorkie back here now.
07:56Let's don't denigrate the Yorkies.
07:58Lucy, don't look at that.
07:59Yeah, but it's the other half that makes her wonderful.
08:02True.
08:03It's the poo part.
08:04Yeah.
08:05Yeah.
08:06Let me bring up one more point about this.
08:07And Zoe, you can answer this.
08:09I think we all agree that the best, the horse who ran the best race in the Classic was Fierceness
08:14for the kind of trip that he had.
08:17I think people that are voting for Fierceness are saying, wait a minute, even though he
08:21got beat in the Breeders' Cup, he was the best horse.
08:23Is that an appropriate way to look at it?
08:25It isn't to me.
08:26I don't care who had what kind of trip.
08:29What matters to me is who had their nose on the finish line first.
08:33I mean, you've got to add in that Fierceness threw in a duck egg for the Kentucky Derby.
08:39That's really the clincher right there in my mind.
08:43That's the separator between the two of them.
08:46Yeah.
08:47So, I got three other divisions for you here, Bill.
08:50I mean, what do you do for champion older male?
08:53What do you do for champion female sprinter?
08:56And what would you do for champion male turf horse?
08:59I haven't even got there.
09:01Boy, I haven't.
09:02Well, champion male turf horse, I guess, is Rebel's Romance.
09:06And the other ones, I got to take a pass.
09:11I need to get out that Randy Moss box of 8,000 papers and start going through them.
09:16Yeah.
09:17So, I mean, Rebel's Romance is probably going to win.
09:20But you know, whereas I think we talked about last week with Moira, the Sovereign Awards
09:25in Canada have a thing where you have to run at least three times in Canada to be considered.
09:30The way I vote, unless it's just there's no other option, I prefer for a horse to make
09:37at least two starts in North America before I vote for him for an Eclipse Award.
09:42And Rebel's Romance only had one.
09:44So, I'm going to vote for more than looks, even though she only had like three races
09:48in the calendar year 2024, or he did.
09:52He won the Breeders' Cup mile against competition that was comparable to what Rebel's Romance
09:56faced in the Breeders' Cup turf.
09:59Older male, okay?
10:01You've got National Treasure, you've got Signor Buscador, you've got Subsanador, and
10:07you've got Newgate.
10:09That's really your options.
10:10Yeah, that's a pretty weak group.
10:13And I think National Treasure has the edge in several different things there, right?
10:20Zoe Female Sprinter, Soul of an Angel.
10:23They were all on the track together, Society, Vava, Ways and Means.
10:29It's a tough one.
10:31It's not really a standout there.
10:32I mean, I'd have a tough time giving it to Soul of an Angel, but she beat all of them
10:38on the biggest day.
10:39But what else did she do?
10:40A couple of grade threes.
10:44It's really, really tough.
10:46We're going to have to delve a little deeper.
10:49Yeah.
10:50Society was obviously narrowly beaten in second.
10:54She might wind up getting it.
10:57Ways and Means ran, what, fifth?
11:00And Vava beat one horse.
11:02So it would be tough to really throw their head in the ring with any sort of conviction.
11:08So I think it's either going to be Soul of an Angel, based on the Breeders' Cup alone.
11:12She is three for three this year around one turn, or Society for her overall accomplishments
11:19during the year.
11:20I'd probably go with Society, to be perfectly honest.
11:23And that's no slight against Soul of an Angel whatsoever.
11:27I do want to remind you that the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
11:32This Thursday, November the 14th, is the Keeneland November Horses of Racing Age Sale, and supplements
11:38will be considered up until sale date.
11:40Now, I've been rallying through this on my iPad, and there are an awful lot of horses,
11:45and you do not want to miss it.
11:48Here are 10 more new faces who have just been entered.
11:52And as the Keeneland November sales starts to wrap up, you can check out all the supplements
11:57to the Horses of Racing Age catalog at november.keeneland.com.
12:22This week's fastest horse of the week brought to you by Life is Good, one of those fast
12:39sires at Windstar Farm, and not just Life is Good was good, his first weanlings are
12:45pretty darn good too.
12:46In fact, he had the session topping weanling.
12:49They probably told him this at the farm.
12:51He probably already knows this, but if you're watching, congratulations.
12:54On back-to-back days at Keeneland November.
12:57First of all, on day two of Philly, if you're keeping score at home, hip number 287 sold
13:03for $410,000.
13:05The next day, day three, he had won a colt, a hip 1050 that sold for an even $400,000.
13:14In all, Life is Good's weanlings are averaging $326,000, and he stands at Windstar Farm in
13:20to Mischief's Fastest Son for a fee of $75,000.
13:26Now the fastest horse of the week ran on Saturday at Aqueduct.
13:30It's not Belmont at Aqueduct anymore, it's just plain Aqueduct now, and that would be
13:34Integration, the winner of the Milan 3.8 Red Smith, and boy did he look visually impressive,
13:42exploding through the lane to draw off and win by two links, ridden by Flavian Pratt.
13:46The second win of calendar year 2024, Integration, I'm talking about, a son of Quality Road,
13:52who earned a buyer speed figure of 100, the only triple-digit buyer of the week, Integration,
13:59our fastest horse of the week.
14:04Welcome in now.
14:05This week's guest of the week is Bloodstock agent David Ngordo.
14:08He also runs the Bloodstock division at Lane's End.
14:12David, plenty to talk to you about, but I'm sure everybody wants to get right to what
14:16must be one of the highlights of your career.
14:19You're the guy who found Flightline and picked him out.
14:23Tell us what you remember about him, what caught your eye at the sale, and he went for
14:27a million dollars.
14:28Were you anywhere close to throwing in the towel, or would you guys have kept going for
14:32a while?
14:34So the answer, it's multi, I'll give you a couple of points on this, because I was invited
14:40out to Jane Lyon's farm, the breeder, Summerwind, back in January with Bill Farish of Flightline's
14:47yearling year.
14:48We actually looked at a horse that became Tappet, what was his name?
14:53Shoot, I'm drawing a blank on his name, but there was another Tappet there that we were
14:58shown that was a half-American pharaoh.
15:02I liked the horse that is Flightline better, and I kind of said something out of my breath
15:06and Bill Farish kicked me, look at the other horse.
15:10That's who we're here to see.
15:12We got back in the car and I said, for what it's worth, I like the bay one.
15:16The other horse was Chestnut.
15:17So we went out there several times over the next several months, and I kept liking the
15:23other horse, and when we went to Saratoga, they still had the Tech Sutton plane, and
15:29I got in the back of the plane and one of the attendants said, hey, these are y'all's
15:34yearlings in the back.
15:35It got bumpy.
15:37So I put a shank on one, I'm petting the horse, and he had the name on his halter, he came
15:41named as Flightline.
15:43So when we got there, Bill's like, hey, there's the horse you like.
15:45I said, let's buy him, and we put something together, and the rest is history.
15:50To answer your question, I think we were just getting started when we bid and we got fortunate
15:55that at a million dollars, the bidding stopped.
15:59So you've picked out a lot of really good horses in your day, probably none faster than
16:05Flightline, and now you've got Flightline babies that are coming of age, and you just
16:11purchased the first Flightline foal to come to auction at Fasig-Tipton November for $675,000.
16:18What did you see in that foal in particular?
16:20Did it remind you of Flightline, and what are you seeing from the Flightline foals in
16:24general?
16:25You know, I like it when a stallion stamps its offspring, because the whole point of
16:31a stallion is to dominate.
16:33We're hoping that those genes that made him such a great racehorse come through in the
16:38offspring.
16:39So I like the fact that they look like him, and he seems to, if you give him a mare, he
16:45seems to dominate the mare, whether she's a small mare, big mare, he seems to impart
16:50the Flightline look on them.
16:54I had seen that foal that we bought on the farm.
16:56He was raised here at Lane's End.
16:58I'm sitting in their office.
17:00And you know, he was one of the top ones I saw.
17:04And then there were several others we tried to bid on.
17:07There was another beautiful filly that scratched that I thought was as good a horse, as weanling
17:13as I've seen all year, whether at a sale or privately on farm.
17:18So the thing about Flightline I like and liked about the foal we bought was that he's stamping
17:25them.
17:26And this one reminded me a lot of Flightline at that stage of his life.
17:31Was that the plan going in?
17:33Because we always see people with new stallions that they need to support them, they need
17:37to get the mares, they need to support buying the babies as well.
17:41Was that the plan going in to purchase the first one for a specific group?
17:47Yeah, the plan was to go see them on the farms, which we did.
17:52And then the ones that we like to make a big play to buy them at the sales ring.
17:56You know, we're not clearly done because there'll be a lot more to come at the yearling sales.
18:02But we believe in the horse.
18:04You know, we're not asking anybody to believe in a horse we don't believe in.
18:08So we're putting our money where our mouths proverbially are.
18:13And you know, we expect to buy more and try to get as many that make sense price wise
18:19as we can.
18:21David, you're not a one trick wonder.
18:22You also found Zenyatta.
18:25So let's ask, let's go through the same timeline and same story about her that we just asked
18:29you about Flightline.
18:30Where, when, how and why?
18:33You know, I walked out to the sales that year, Zenyatta was a yearling and actually had the
18:40catalog behind me I saved with my notes in it.
18:43And you know, we go through and we shortlist and we saw her and you know, buying horses
18:48for trainers is a lot like recruiting for any sports team.
18:52You know, if you have a certain kind of offense, any certain kind of player, you know, Zenyatta
18:57was that year, those horses were being bought for Mr. Moss to go to John Sheriff's and Zenyatta
19:03looked like a John Sheriff's horse.
19:05I fell in love with her.
19:08She had that skin disease.
19:09It's now famous that on a scale of one to 10 is a minus a half of a problem.
19:15And I just think it was meant to be there.
19:18You know, at the end of the day, it's, I can say now, because the breeders passed away,
19:22we had a lot more money for Zenyatta than 60 grand.
19:26And I told Eric Kronfeld that one time over a couple of bourbons, I said, you know, we
19:31really had more money and we laugh, but you know, it was meant to be.
19:36And she was, you know, they talk about horse of a lifetime.
19:40You say, well, there's Zenyatta and I never thought it would get better than that.
19:43Now here's Flightline, but you know, Zenyatta is your first.
19:46So I think she holds a special place, you know, in my heart and in my career.
19:53And I'm hoping to get one more because now I have a wife that's a trainer.
19:56So I have to do it for her.
19:58So I got to try for a three-peat.
20:02More about Sheree in a minute.
20:03I want to ask you one more Flightline question.
20:06It's quite the daily double, by the way, Zenyatta to Flightline.
20:09One of the things that always interested me about Flightline was his pedigree.
20:16The fact that he's by Tappet and we've seen obviously Tappet become one of the great sires
20:21of the last 20 years, impart tremendous amount of determination and athleticism to his offspring.
20:29We've also seen that Tappets can be challenging to train from a temperamental point of view.
20:36Flightline didn't seem to have any of that, or maybe it just sort of got brushed under
20:40the rug and he was so fast that nobody ever talked about it.
20:43What was his demeanor like compared to a lot of these other Tappets that you see?
20:47Well, what I love about what we do is these horses, we purchase them and they go into
20:53the family, if you will.
20:55So this horse went down to Mayberry's.
20:57We bought him in Saratoga.
20:58He came to Lane's End for a little while, then he went down to Jeanne April and Summer
21:04Mayberry.
21:05April's in charge down there of all the horses that I buy.
21:09And you know, the horse never had a bad day as far as that goes.
21:13We all Tappets come with a warning label and he didn't have that, you know.
21:19Very easy to break.
21:21Everything went right.
21:22Everything went smooth, except the day he ended up hurting his butt on the latch.
21:30And it was just one of those things.
21:33You wouldn't expect this horse to blow out a candle after he trained.
21:38He never, you know, took any bad steps.
21:41It was just one of those horses that you knew he was there because he cost a million dollars,
21:45but it wasn't like his behavior was ever bad.
21:49He was a model patient, you know, that took 90 days or something to heal.
21:55And then, you know, went out to Sadler and again, never much complaint.
22:00He's high energy.
22:01He feels good.
22:02But a lot of horses do that.
22:03There was no, you know, bad, you know, traits that you go, oh my God, he was a pain to train.
22:10You know, John is a, I talked to John every day about the horse.
22:14There was no, God, David, you sent me this, you know, beast and it's a worker's competition
22:20or something.
22:21You know, the horse was mellow and good and he put it all in his training, all in his
22:26running.
22:27And again, you know, we talk about stallions, all the foals seem to have good minds.
22:30So, you know, maybe he's just such a unique individual, you know, he's going to impart
22:37all this.
22:38And he had a great mind, you know, maybe that's what it's going to be.
22:41I don't know.
22:42But he wasn't your, you know, what we're calling a typical Tappet.
22:45And by the way, I love Tappet.
22:47So if they have any kind of mental, whatever, I'm willing to deal with it.
22:52It's just like flight line, as would anybody else that buys them or trains them.
22:57We really should play the flight line drinking game.
22:59You could start with us behind you because we're going to talk about him a lot.
23:04How encouraged are you, even though you didn't buy him by what his brother has done already
23:09is on the comeback Eagles flight, because that's got to help flight line along the line
23:14as well.
23:15Well, technically, we did buy him because we put the partnership together to buy him,
23:20but it didn't go through the ring.
23:22But he's the same way.
23:23He went from Jane's farm down to Mayberry is a little different, different type, but
23:31still a handsome horse.
23:33And he's done everything right to it.
23:35Just the family might have to be a little patient with.
23:38But he's, is he flight line, there'll be very few that are ever flight line, but he's showing
23:44us what flight line did as well.
23:48Is that something that might worry you a little bit?
23:51The fragility factor?
23:52I mean, he was brilliant, but he needed time between his brilliance.
23:57Well, I talked to John about this a lot.
24:00And John said, what do you want me to do, David?
24:01Run them in the grade three palace birdies to get them ready for the Met Mile?
24:05You know, what do we do it for?
24:07And so, you know, I'm going to be defensive because he's like part of family flight line.
24:13You know, he that injury to his hindquarter.
24:17There's only one picture of it.
24:18It's on my phone as fate would have it.
24:21I was there that day that it happened.
24:23And it was a pretty serious muscle injury.
24:27So there was that.
24:29And then something just took time.
24:31And in the world we live in, if we're talking about horsemanship, sometimes horses take
24:37time.
24:38So, you know, if we want to do the right by him and not, you know, do all the injections
24:42and all the things we'll probably talk about if we talk about eyes of the world, you know,
24:47But horsemanship requires flight lines, a poster child for good horsemanship and giving
24:52a horse time, knowing when to push, knowing when to not.
24:57David, you mentioned earlier that you're married to a trainer that would be Cherie DeVoe, who's
25:01obviously a rising star in her profession.
25:05Tell me how you guys work together.
25:07You know, what does she do for you and what do you do for him for her?
25:11You know, I'm a I'm very obedient.
25:14So I could trade in a husband.
25:17Yeah.
25:18No.
25:19You know, so we're married, right?
25:22Obviously, we're contractually obligated.
25:25I joke to one another now, but she's a horse trainer.
25:29I do my job.
25:30She does hers.
25:31You know, I was broken by Bobby Frankel.
25:35You know, I watched my family work together.
25:37I've watched my mother and John.
25:38You know, I deal with John Sadler.
25:40I deal with shook.
25:41I've dealt with a lot of horse trainers.
25:43Cherie happens to be my wife, but she's a horse trainer first.
25:47So I show her the same respect that I'd show any horse trainer I deal with.
25:52She does the same for me.
25:54You know, we we did lay it out a little bit because you don't want a problem at work to
25:59end up with me sleeping on the couch.
26:02Not her, mind you, me.
26:04So we laid out the groundwork early on for whatever direction the business went.
26:12She knows what I need out of it, and I know what she needs out of it from a professional
26:16standpoint.
26:18She's brilliant with her help.
26:20She's brilliant with the horses, and she owners love her.
26:24You know, I try to handle the backroom for her.
26:27I'm the one to make sure there's money in the payroll account and things like that on
26:31the business side.
26:32But her horses, her clients, that's her jurisdiction.
26:37My side of it is, you know, I obviously buy horses.
26:40We put partnerships together.
26:42You know, if she needs any help, I do it just as I have for other trainers.
26:49If there's an owner that I have a better rapport with, sometimes she'll call me and I talk
26:54to them.
26:55And that's the same thing I would do for John Sadler, John Sheriffs, Shug McGehee with Asmussen.
27:00You know, it's the job I do, and I'm a pro trainer agent.
27:08I hate that word, agent, but that's what I am.
27:10I'm a pro trainer.
27:12I support the trainer.
27:14I know how difficult their job is.
27:16I respect their job.
27:17So we try to make sure we each do our part, and it's very delineated.
27:23She called me today.
27:24I dropped my daughter off at school and she says, we got two horses working at 8 o'clock.
27:28I'll come watch them.
27:29I'll either take a video or she does, and then if it's my client, I let them know.
27:35If it's something I bought, she knows I'm interested because I'm always trying to learn
27:40what I did wrong and I do plenty wrong.
27:43Don't buy that kind again.
27:44So we work well together.
27:46Not going to tell you that we've never had a disagreement or that I don't get told to
27:51stay in my lane, but that's every trainer will tell you, tell guys like me that are
27:58agents or help manage their owners.
28:01Sometimes that happens.
28:02Overall, I think we work well together and I'm very proud of her accomplishments.
28:07So what you just said brings up a couple of questions in my mind.
28:12First of all, you mentioned money in the account.
28:14We hope you bet on more than looks in the Breeders' Cup mile.
28:18Yeah.
28:19I have a great friend of mine, Dan Silver.
28:22We bet a lot and we had some pick six, pick five, and I said, listen, I need you to put
28:28a large sum on more than looks.
28:30He said, to win?
28:31I said, yeah, to win.
28:32And the biggest mistake I made is Sadler told me full Serrano win the mile as soon as you
28:38got the draw and I effed it up, but I just didn't do a double and I bet, I send it in.
28:46You know, I'm not afraid to bet, but we did very, very well on more than looks and everybody
28:53complains about morning lines, right?
28:55Randy, you'll probably appreciate this.
28:58When I see 20 to one, Sheree goes, oh, don't they respect my horse?
29:00I'm like, this is phenomenal.
29:02I get so happy that he's 20 to one, you know, but obviously didn't end up at that price,
29:09but yeah, no, I bet and you know, I thought we could win with Vava.
29:15I thought more than looks should win and I text some of my gambling buddies.
29:19That was exactly how we handicapped it out.
29:22So you also mentioned that you're pro trainer.
29:27You served on the horseman's advisory committee for Hysa and we've talked a lot on this podcast
29:33about Hysa over the last couple of years and you know, one of the things we always stressed
29:38right from the beginning was that the success or failure of Hysa was going to come down
29:45in large part to the changes that they were willing to make as Hysa progressed and some
29:51of the problems became apparent because we all knew there would be problems.
29:55It's such a far reaching, far reaching bit of legislation.
30:00What do you see right now in where Hysa is as we speak and where you hoped that it would
30:07be right about now?
30:09You know, so one, everything you said is 100% correct and I would commend Lisa Lazarus quite
30:18a bit.
30:19I don't know there's anybody in our industry could have helped get where we are today better
30:26than her.
30:27I mean, she stood up to a lot of pressure on both sides and is, I'll call it wise and
30:34takes counsel when the horsemen come to her and it's, there's a number of people, if anybody
30:41ever says, oh, she doesn't call me back or whatever, I've never had that experience.
30:45I've sent over 20 people with complaints, criticism, suggestions to her.
30:51She answers the phone and I think we've moved not where it needs to be, but we've got the
30:57pendulum going in the right direction to get this, you know, right for the horsemen and
31:04women that want to do it for owners.
31:07It is not perfect and there are things we could go on a whole three hour podcast and
31:13talk about things need fixing, but it's coming, it's getting there and the horseman's advisory
31:19group deserves a lot of credit.
31:21There's some people, you know, it's a large group, but there's probably 10 people that
31:26spend two to three hours a day, a day on this, working on it, phone calls to each other,
31:35getting the right critical support, doing the right research.
31:40We just don't go, this is stupid.
31:42This is terrible.
31:43You know, we sit down and we, we find a problem and we come with a solution and, you know,
31:49it's a law.
31:50So you're, you've got to work through that and we don't have any voting power.
31:53You know, the horseman advisory group is, is a lobbying arm, if you will.
31:58That's my term, you know, that this, we go in and we sit down with the people, the powers
32:04that be, and we testify in front of these, you know, HIWU has the anti-doping medication
32:12control group, or they have the safety side of it on HISA.
32:17We go and we talk about issues and we have to debate, you know, the head of UC Davis,
32:23the head of Cornell and get them to see our side of it.
32:29And a lot of people have rolled up their sleeves and, you know, people you would never
32:33think would go in or make the time have.
32:36So I'm proud of what that group has done.
32:40It's worked together.
32:41HISA has done something that we probably couldn't have done anyways, unite horsemen behind something
32:46good or bad, you know, to, to make change.
32:49And it's not there yet.
32:50It needs to keep going, but I have faith that it will.
32:54Horsemen love to bitch and moan.
32:55We all do.
32:57If you could wave your magic wand, Dave, and fix one thing in the industry, be it HISA,
33:05HBPA, anything, what would it be?
33:08Wow.
33:09That's a great question.
33:17I love racing and without racing, we have none of this.
33:20We have no sales.
33:21We have no stallion farms.
33:23There's no lane's end.
33:26We need to kind of end this civil war we have on these subjects and sit down and, and use
33:36some practical common sense, get people in the room that know what is right and wrong.
33:44You know, there's horse health and there's doping.
33:46There's two different things.
33:48There's horse safety and there, there's, you know, this very too much left on, you know,
33:54some of the vetting issues and things.
33:56You know, we need to get everybody there.
33:57We need to realize it and then put the guns on the table and go back to promoting the
34:02sport.
34:03You know, a lot of our clients are new people in it.
34:07There's plenty of people that have an interest in this.
34:08Instead of shooting ourselves in the foot as an industry, we can't bury problems, but
34:14let's acknowledge some of the good things.
34:16Let's try to promote those.
34:18Let's go out there on these great days and show people how fun it is.
34:22We've got professional athletes that have won the biggest prizes in the real world,
34:27you know, whether it's football, basketball, baseball, and they're coming and telling you
34:32hockey, this is the best drug I can't buy winning.
34:38You know?
34:39And I'm like, a guy said that to me, we won a race on, on Derby day, new owner, plenty
34:44of funds, successful man in the real world, and he said, David, I've done some drugs in
34:50my life.
34:51And I'm laughing when he starts this on, Oh my God, where's this going?
34:54He said, this is the best high I've ever had winning on Derby day, winning a grade one.
34:59And I'm like, wow, that, that maybe it's not the story I'm going to tell, you know, in
35:05a, in a, in an advertisement, you know, in, in, on NBC or something, but it's a great
35:11point.
35:12You know, I think we've heard the guys that own door knock, you know, they, they've won
35:17a world series and they're saying, this is bigger than that emotionally for them.
35:22Those are huge statements.
35:23I mean, huge, huge statements and to promote those positives to it, we can all have rivalries.
35:31If we don't have a sport, we don't have it anymore.
35:33So I think we need to get back to promoting the sport, the beauty of it.
35:38The horse is an amazing animal, that type of thing.
35:42So long story.
35:43If I, it would be a very long magic wand Zoe, I'd be waving, but those are the, that that's
35:48the whole thing.
35:50When did you start going by Mr. Devoe before or after the breeders' cup?
35:55It was before I was, I was at, at Saratoga and a gentleman walks up and says, excuse
36:02me, I want to get a picture and I'm looking, looking for Todd Fletcher or somebody.
36:08And Cherie was, you know, walking up in front after a race.
36:13And I said, with her?
36:14He says, yeah, yeah.
36:15I said, well, here, I say, Cherie, turn around.
36:17And the guy hands me the stuff and he says, Mr. Devoe, would you hold this for me?
36:22So he had like a cooler or something.
36:24I'm like, yeah, sure.
36:25I'll hold it for you.
36:26So it stuck.
36:28And you know, I always joked, if she won an Oaks or a Derby, I'd change my last name.
36:33So fortunately it was a breeders' cup and not, not the Oaks or Derby, I'd have to change
36:39my name for the, all the, all the things I do.
36:43One more thing.
36:44Talk a little bit about your team because you do have a big team that we see with you
36:48at all the sales.
36:50Yeah.
36:51So I was fortunate that the generation before us took an interest in me and taught me.
36:58And one thing that I promised I would do, if there were young people that were interested,
37:04I would give them an opportunity.
37:05So, you know, we have a lot of interns that are unpaid, some are, you know, and, and we
37:12try to teach them.
37:14And if they're willing to put in the work, I'm willing to help them.
37:17So some of the guys are learning and, and some of them are actually helping me, but,
37:23you know, I've got young Will Ferish, you know, Bill's son, who's a great young guy
37:28that I think is a future leader.
37:30You know, I joke with him all the time, you know, you're going to be the king one day.
37:34You need to learn about your people.
37:36You could be up in the ivory tower or not.
37:38And Will is a man of the people.
37:41I respect that about him.
37:42There's no pretense, no errors with him.
37:45I've got another young guy named Fernando LaFond-Peree.
37:49His dad is Carlos LaFond-Peree and his grandmother's cricket head.
37:54So therefore his great grandfather's Alec head, he's about as well bred as Flightline
37:58is.
37:59And, you know, he sent me an email.
38:02And I said, okay, you know, come on over.
38:04And he's great.
38:05You know, it's another young man named Ray Smoot.
38:08You know, he's a very bright guy, wanted to learn it.
38:13And he literally works for free to come around.
38:16And I've got Casey Klein from the Klein family in Louisville.
38:21Yeah.
38:22Casey is, I joke with him, it's like when you're a fraternity, you need to get a boost
38:26in GPA.
38:27He's as smart a young guy as I've met.
38:32And he continues to amaze me with the things he picks up on.
38:36And these are all future leaders, you know, and we've had a lot of other people come through
38:41our ranks that have gone on to do other things.
38:43So, you know, I try to give back in that way, you know, and I've got obviously April Mayberry
38:50and those people, Joe Pickrell helps me, Tanya Jurgens, Lisa McGreevy, you know, over the
38:57years we've had some others in there.
39:01You know, you can't do it on your own.
39:03I look at anywhere from 700 to 1,000 yearlings for the September sale on the farms.
39:09But that's only, you know, 25% of the cattle.
39:14So all these people helped me get through it.
39:17And without them, we couldn't do it.
39:20And I think they feel part of the team also.
39:23One of the key players in our organization is Gretchen Feld, who keeps all those young
39:29guys we talked about in line and mostly me in line.
39:33And without her, we couldn't do it because she was checking to make sure that this was
39:37all set up right before we got on.
39:39So I can't do a lot without Gretchen, and she's a cornerstone of the whole business
39:45that we have.
39:46And what about Rupert?
39:48Where's Rupert?
39:49Well, Rupert is back here, and he's like the Bush's baked bean dog.
39:54I'm glad he can't talk because he hears a lot of things.
39:58But, you know, Rupert, it's funny.
40:01I never wanted a dog, and I would give Rupert my kidney if he needed it, you know.
40:06So he's my man, and he's part of the flight line story at the end of the day.
40:12That's why John Sadler thanked Rupert at the Clips Awards.
40:18Because Rupert was supposed to be John Sadler's dog and COVID hit, and he never got the dog.
40:24So he met Flightline and Rupert on the same day, and he said, this dog likes me.
40:28I said, you can take that horse.
40:30You can't take this dog.
40:31That's awesome.
40:32That's true.
40:33True story.
40:34Very good.
40:35Well, David, thanks so much for being our Guest of the Week.
40:43Congratulations on all the success you've had, and congratulations on becoming Mr. DeVoe.
40:47We're very progressive.
40:49There you go.
40:50It could be a lot worse things, David.
40:54Thanks so much for joining us.
40:56The TD and Writer's Room also brought to you by the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders
41:01Association.
41:02Pennsylvania bred Foxy Jr. ran her record this year to six wins and seven starts when
41:07she won the 38 go-go stakes at Laurel on Saturday.
41:11She was the eight to five favorite.
41:12She's a four-year-old filly owned and bred by Diane Stern.
41:17And in the sales ring, Pennsylvania breds were also popular, namely one that we've talked
41:22about a lot on this podcast.
41:24Roses for Deborah, the daughter of Liam's map, went through the ring during the opening
41:28session of Keeneland November, and Mandy Pope bought Roses for Deborah for $2.4 million.
41:36To learn more about the Pennsylvania bred program, you can go to pabred.com, or you
41:41can call area code 610-444-1050.
41:44PA bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
41:53It's excitement at every step.
41:56Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
41:59On average for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders awards,
42:05restricted races, and owner bonuses.
42:08Plus, PA bred shine on the world's biggest stage.
42:11Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
42:14Learn more at pabred.com.
42:18Be a smarter better with XBTV.
42:21The best horses with thousands of exclusive morning workouts, all at your fingertips and
42:33delivered right into your inbox.
42:37Everything you need to be informed.
42:40Be smart.
42:41Bet smart with XBTV.
42:44All right, let's move on.
42:48The TDN Writer's Room is also brought to you by XBTV.
42:51And since we talked so much about Flightline, we really should have played the drinking
42:56game.
42:57We talked an awful lot about Flightline with David and Gordo earlier.
43:01This week's XBTV Work of the Week is from one of the most highly anticipated horses
43:05out there.
43:06His name is Eagles Flight, seen working here a half mile on Thursday at Santa Anita in
43:1247 and 3.
43:14And I'm not sure you can go any easier than this.
43:17You can see Abdul Alsagor, his regular work rider, absolutely swinging off him.
43:23Eagles Flight is the full brother to the 2022 Horse of the Year Flightline, and has only
43:29made one start.
43:30That was back in May, winning a Santa Anita maiden race.
43:33He is expected to start at the upcoming Santa Anita meeting, most likely in the grade one
43:41Malibu stakes.
43:43So we talked a lot to David and Gordo about his role with Hyza and the Horseman's Advisory
43:49Group.
43:50And Hyza was in the news.
43:51And this is, I think, something that was long overdue.
43:55I wish they would have done it sooner, but I'm glad they're doing it now.
43:58They got rid of this provisional suspension.
44:00So what that means is if Trainer X gets caught on a Monday with a drug that is not allowed,
44:07on Tuesday they're suspended.
44:09And then they have to clear their name before they can come back.
44:12And the cliche was guilty until proven innocent.
44:17And I think that not only did that rub a lot of people the wrong way, I still go back.
44:21This is my number one complaint about Hyza, is that they went after and got some people
44:27through their methods of provisional suspensions and drug testing and whatnot that just don't
44:33cheat.
44:35Guys winning six, seven races a year, and they caused a lot of problems for these people.
44:41They did the right thing here.
44:43And what David and Gordo said is they're still trying to get things, pull everything together.
44:48I wish they would have done this a lot sooner, but it's good to see that they are making
44:53the right decisions.
44:54It's also good to see that when people point out to them that, hey, this might not be the
44:59best way to do this, they listen.
45:02I could not agree more.
45:05David and Gordo didn't mention provisional suspensions directly, but I think it was probably
45:10high on his list of things that he was glad to see get done, among other things that he
45:14thinks need to be done in the future.
45:17I think a lot of it has to do with the realization that there are just so many cases of contamination
45:24out there with positive tests.
45:28Unfortunately, there is human drug use on the backstretch at American racetracks, maybe
45:35even a higher percentage than you would find elsewhere normally in society.
45:41And it's just impossible to completely ignore the prospect of inadvertent contamination
45:49from human to horse when you have people working the closest with the horses who may be recreational
45:55drug users.
45:56And there's some other forms of contamination as well that have come to the forefront.
46:01So well, I think it's good, obviously, that HISA is willing to be flexible and is willing
46:07to say, OK, maybe we were overstepping here a little bit.
46:11Let's put a hold on this until we can get a little bit of a firmer grip on what we're
46:17going to do about all these issues of obvious contamination.
46:22For sure.
46:23Because in this age of super testing, like just three days ago, a friend of mine sent
46:28me a picture of someone in the detention barn.
46:32I'm not going to say where, peeing in the stall three days ago.
46:35It's still going on.
46:36That is human contamination, number one.
46:39And then you've got a horse that's going to go in there.
46:41You don't know what this guy's been doing three days ago.
46:46So yes, I mean, they need to start there.
46:50It's tough policing people.
46:53It's a very, very hard thing to do.
46:54And the training wheels are still on, but hopefully one day we'll get to take them off
46:59and it'll be smooth sailing.
47:01That will be nice.
47:02I mean, in HISA's defense, I mean, we know that you can have the worst doper out there,
47:11the trainer that's the most despicable horse doper of all.
47:18And when he gets a positive test, the first thing he's going to do is cry contamination.
47:21That's what they're going to do.
47:22That's what they've always done.
47:23It's what they always will do.
47:25So HISA was trying to come up with a way to mitigate those sort of circumstances.
47:31Unfortunately, it's a very fine line to try to walk, and that's what they're trying to
47:36deal with right now.
47:38Well, also some good news this week in horse racing, when they announced that Sarah Leon
47:43will be coming back to run next year.
47:46We already know that Fierceness is coming back to run next year.
47:50Mora, who was sent over to Australia, perhaps her racing days are not done.
47:55Matter of fact, in a story I did for the TDN, the Australian stud farm that purchased her,
48:00said they may even send her back to North America to run, which would be fantastic.
48:05But what a welcome sight this is.
48:07I believe, unless I'm missing something, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
48:12If Mora comes back, all 14 Breeders' Cup winners in 2024 will race in 2025.
48:20I'm very surprised that Sierra Leone is going to come back and race, because that's really
48:24not Coolmore's style.
48:25But thank you, Coolmore, for doing this.
48:29Last year, it was the exact opposite.
48:31Every single three-year-old, like two Phil's, who Randy still thinks is the best horse on
48:37the planet, they all retired.
48:39Every last one of them.
48:42Not only that, Forever Young is coming back, too.
48:44So the first three finishers in the Breeders' Cup Classic are all coming back to race next
48:51year.
48:52And it's terrific to see that happening.
48:55Let's hope that this is the start of a trend.
48:56I don't think it will be, but it sure would be nice, though, if it was.
49:00Wouldn't it be awesome just to see them all back next year?
49:04And it's Mora.
49:05You still haven't watched an episode of Schitt's Creek, have you?
49:08I have not, no.
49:10You need to watch it.
49:11Moira.
49:12Moira.
49:13Yeah.
49:14Okay.
49:15Okay.
49:16So one thing I would love to see Forever Young, I mean, surely, I mean, what I would like
49:20to see from Forever Young is a different jockey, and that's no slight on the guy that's been
49:23riding him.
49:24Put an American jock on the horse that knows the track, get him a little bit closer, and
49:28don't go so wide.
49:29I know he doesn't love the kickback, but could you imagine if he won the Classic next year?
49:34He's been so close in two of his races over here.
49:38Just so close.
49:39Maybe next year will be the year for him.
49:41What do you think, Randy?
49:42Yeah, I mean, they've said, that's what the trainer said through a translator as soon
49:46as the race was over, that we're looking forward to coming back to Breeders' Cup next year
49:50at Del Mar.
49:51Hopefully, he'll make it there.
49:52I mean, as you know, hopefully, this is not a one-off.
49:56It's not an aberration.
49:57Hopefully, it's going to be a trend because it's great for the sports, the best thing
50:02possible for the sports, to see all these horses coming back.
50:05Yeah, we already have a rivalry between Sierra Leone and Fierceness, and they raced against
50:10each other four times, both based in the East Coast.
50:12They might run against each other two, three more times next year.
50:15I mean, it's not quite a firm dally-dar, but it would be the best we've had in a long,
50:19long time.
50:20So, definitely good news, and hope they all come back, and I hope Moira comes back and
50:27runs in North America.
50:28How about that?
50:31Thank you, Bill.
50:32Okay.
50:33TD Riders are brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
50:36We set it up for you a little bit last week, how you could sit in front of your TV, maybe
50:40with a split screen, and you could keep up with the West Point horses.
50:43Boy, did they come through.
50:45The horses co-owned by West Point Thoroughbreds and Woodford Racing had a giant day on Saturday.
50:51First of all, it was integration prevailing in the Grade II Red Smith stakes with Woodford
50:57Racing colors written by Flavian Pratt.
51:01You could see Shug McGahee in the winner's circle there after the Red Smith, and boy,
51:05what an impressive win it was for integration.
51:07And then about an hour and 45 minutes later, it was Battle of Normandy, also trained by
51:12Shug, who scored in the Grade III River City stakes at Churchill Downs.
51:16In the process, winning those two races, and also Cugino had a really good second-place
51:21finish in a graded stakes race on Saturday at Aqueduct as well.
51:25West Point achieved a new best for purse earnings in a single year, over $8.9 million, surpassing
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52:16All right, a couple more subjects to wrap up before we call it a day.
52:22I've been waiting for her to come back.
52:24I'm very excited to see Tamara run Friday at Del Mar.
52:30Long before anybody really knew what was going on with Torpedo Anna, she was the one.
52:35The Bolteoro out-of-beholder, the beloved beholder.
52:40She got off to a great start in her career, then she stubbed her toe in the Breeders'
52:44Cup Juvenile Fillies in 2023, but came out of that race with a little bit of an injury.
52:50She's been off over a year, but Dick Mandela, Mike Smith are behind her, Spendthrift Farms.
52:56Let's not forget about her.
52:58She stays healthy.
52:59She could be a major player this year, maybe a good candidate to take on Torpedo Anna at
53:06some point.
53:07She's looked really good training down there at Del Mar.
53:10I'm not sure how much she's grown.
53:14I haven't seen her really in person since the summer.
53:17I hope she's grown a little bit, but she's certainly been working well.
53:20She does draw the one hole, but her class should prevail in that race at Del Mar.
53:24What race is it?
53:25It's race number...
53:26Seventh race.
53:27The seventh race at Del Mar, 6.30 Eastern.
53:30Definitely looking forward to that.
53:33There's so much to look forward to, not just all the Breeders' Cup horses coming back next
53:36year.
53:37Tamara getting back into gear.
53:40Suddenly all these horses are popping up out of the woodwork.
53:43Some more good dolphin two-year-olds.
53:45Good cheer, the filly.
53:47Sovereignty, trained by Bill Mott, looked really good.
53:51Actually looked like the best three-year-old I've seen so far, breaking his maiden in a
53:56stakes race.
53:59Chad Brown has a filly named Senza Parole that looked a lot like Echo Zulu in ways and
54:04means breaking her maiden at Saratoga, and then she got hurt.
54:08She'll be coming back, hopefully, as a three-year-old in 2024.
54:11That's something really to look forward to.
54:13Hey, we're going to have a lot to talk about in the coming months.
54:17If all these horses come back as scheduled.
54:20Now this is the part of the show I've been most looking forward to.
54:23Randy Moss tells us he wants to rant about something, but he won't tell us what it is.
54:28So here we go.
54:30Three, two, one.
54:32Randy's mystery rant is...
54:34Randy's rant.
54:35Well, I don't like to rant.
54:36Yes, you do.
54:38I don't like to rant about the problem with the timing of races, which is the worst it's
54:43been since FDR was president.
54:47Who wants to do that?
54:48But sometimes other people don't talk about this stuff.
54:53We are left to have to talk about it, and it's got to be mentioned.
54:56If you're a serious bettor, a horse player, casual horse player, not really casual horse
55:02player, serious horse player, CAW player, if you're somebody like me who will bet some,
55:08but also does this as part of your job, right?
55:10My job with NBC.
55:12You keep up with this stuff.
55:14You analyze everything possible in all these races.
55:18You look at speed figures.
55:20You look at pace figures.
55:21You look at final quarter mile closing times.
55:24You look at final furlong closing times.
55:26Anything to get a slight edge.
55:27You watch replays.
55:28You watch stewards, head-on replays, because they can often tell you something that the
55:33regular replay doesn't show, can be very important.
55:38All those things go into really doing your homework, right?
55:41On Saturday, November the 2nd, Breeders' Cup Day, the following racetracks ran cards
55:46around the country.
55:47Arapahoe Downs, Belmont at the Big A, Century Downs, Charlestown, Churchill Downs, Delta
55:54Downs, Evangeline Downs, FanDuel, the former Fairmont Park, Gulfstream Laurel, Lone Star,
55:58the Quarter Horses at Los Alamitos, Mahoning Valley, Parks, Remington Park, Turf Paradise,
56:04Zia, and of course, Del Mar.
56:07Now that list of tracks, what do you think is the only racetrack that did not make head-on
56:12replays available to the horse players?
56:16Del Mar.
56:17Del Mar.
56:18Wow.
56:19Championship races of American thoroughbred racing, the only races on that list where
56:26you cannot get a head-on replay.
56:29You can't get it from the Breeders' Cup website.
56:37You can't get it from the Del Mar website.
56:39You can't get it from the Roberts Communications purveyors of his replays.
56:47He's sort of in control of all.
56:48They can't get it from Twin Spires.
56:49You can't get it from TRN, RTN, anywhere.
56:52You can't get it.
56:56So it's one of two things.
56:58It's either the people that are in charge of this sort of thing aren't aware, which
57:04is bad, or they're aware and they don't care, which is even worse, right?
57:10Now, last year, the same thing happened with the Breeders' Cup races at Santa Anita.
57:15And Santa Anita took the initiative to reach out to Roberts Communications and say, we
57:20need the head-on replays to be out there for the public.
57:25And ultimately, they were posted better late than never.
57:29And now we're sitting here a week plus from the Breeders' Cup, and still, America's championship
57:36races, no head-ons available anywhere to watch.
57:38Maybe we could get them for Christmas.
57:41Maybe I thought about getting them for Christmas, head-on replays for the Breeders' Cup.
57:45There you go.
57:46That is a wrap on this week's show.
58:02I want to thank everybody for tuning in and listening.
58:05I want to thank my partners, Zoe Kavman and Randy Moss, and also our people that work
58:09so hard behind the scenes, our editors and producers, Katie Petruniak, Anthony Garocca,
58:13and then Alita Rocca, and of course, our guests of the week, David and Gordo, as well.
58:17We'll be back about the same time next week.
58:19Thanks for listening.