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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN.
00:00:34I also do a radio show called Down the Stretch on Sirius XM Radio, along with my friend Dave
00:00:38Johnson.
00:00:39Hope everybody's doing well.
00:00:40I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Buyer's Speed Figure team.
00:00:45T.D.
00:00:46Thornton, checking in from coastal Massachusetts.
00:00:49I'm a stablemate of Bill Finley's at TDN.
00:00:52Well, guys, this weekend, the big show is at Parks, just outside of Philadelphia.
00:00:58It's the weekend where they have the Pennsylvania Derby and the Cotillion, two grade one events
00:01:02plus another very good stakes races.
00:01:07As an overview of it, the Pennsylvania Derby, meh, but the Cotillion with Torpedo Anna and
00:01:13also the Alabama winner in there, that's going to be a really nice race.
00:01:16But let's get back to the Pennsylvania Derby first.
00:01:19And somebody's going to pull out of there with a lot of money, but no one in this race
00:01:24looks like they're going to be a serious candidate.
00:01:27For instance, for the Breeders' Cup Classic or something like that.
00:01:29I guess the big name has seized the grace simply since he's a Preakness winner.
00:01:33But his last starts have not been good at all.
00:01:36And I'm actually going to think I'm going to pick Unmatched Wisdom, even though the
00:01:40horse lost by a country mile last time out in the Travers.
00:01:43The fact that Chad Brown is bringing him right back leaves me to believe that there's something
00:01:47was amiss.
00:01:48The comment line says bump start, loose wrap.
00:01:52The favorite is Dragoon Guard, which is nine to five for Brad Cox.
00:01:56But he's won some derbies, but not the ones that seem to really matter.
00:01:59The West Virginia Derby and the Indiana Derby stepping up in class.
00:02:04Randy, I'm sure you've had a chance to look at this race.
00:02:06What do you think?
00:02:07Yeah, it's not a it's not a bad race.
00:02:09We've got the Preakness winner and the Santa Anita Derby winner and Unmatched Wisdom and
00:02:13an up and coming horse.
00:02:14There's one four in a row and Dragoon Guard.
00:02:17It may not be as strong as some Pennsylvania Derby fields we've seen in the past, but there's
00:02:22just kind of the way these things go.
00:02:24I mean, even at Saratoga, sometimes you get these grade one stakes races that maybe aren't
00:02:28quite as tough as the grade one races you see in other years.
00:02:32It goes kind of cyclically if that's if that's a word.
00:02:37But I think this is a pretty decent race.
00:02:38I'm interested to see Dragoon Guard.
00:02:41I thought he's looked pretty good against easier competition, although he did beat Stronghold
00:02:46pretty impressively in the Indiana Derby.
00:02:48So far, Brad Cox and Judd Mott have been very discriminating, calculating and where
00:02:54they've run him.
00:02:55They ran him in the Indiana Derby.
00:02:57They ran him in the West Virginia Derby.
00:02:58He's won now $600,000 plus, and now they're going to step him up a little bit.
00:03:05Although this also looks like a spot, since he's the favorite, that could be be quite
00:03:10productive for him.
00:03:12He's a near white horse.
00:03:14He gets that from from his grandsire, Mizzenmast.
00:03:17He's a son of Arrogate and looks pretty good right now in what, five lifetime starts, TD?
00:03:23Yeah, I think that Dragoon Guard has been feasting on easier competition, but he's not
00:03:29jumping into a race that's of the quality of the Travers race, for example, from which
00:03:35Seize the Gray is exiting and Seize the Gray.
00:03:39He's been off form, as Bill mentioned, the past couple of starts kind of developing into
00:03:44a horse.
00:03:45You wonder if he's too much at the mercy of the pace.
00:03:48In the Preakness, we saw him get out to a lead that Mystic Dan just couldn't reel him
00:03:53in, even though he was in a prime stocking spot.
00:03:55Next couple of races, he was either pinned down on the rail or couldn't clear to the
00:04:00lead.
00:04:01Seize the Gray breaks from post two in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:04:04He's surrounded by speed in post one and three.
00:04:07There's also some speed deeper into the race there, including from possible pressure from
00:04:12Dragoon Guard.
00:04:15I thought that Bill mentioned, interestingly enough, I didn't catch this in my review of
00:04:20the Travers when I looked at the race, but nice call by the chart caller in that race
00:04:24on Unmatched Wisdom to see that the horse had a loose wrap on his right hind leg, came
00:04:30loose down the backstretch.
00:04:32I can't quantify exactly how much that affected him, but you have to think that it wasn't
00:04:36good and did contribute to a back of the pack finish.
00:04:39I'll just say, I find this to be an inscrutable race and it almost sniffs out to me as one
00:04:44of these races where Bill Mott, Todd Pletcher each have horses who have not won beyond the
00:04:50maiden ranks.
00:04:51They are respectively timeout and protective.
00:04:54It wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of them in the winner's circle on Saturday.
00:04:58Also with Unmatched Wisdom, I thought it was even more important that he was bounced around
00:05:01pretty badly at the start, which kind of took him out of his game.
00:05:05Not that he was going to make the lead in there, but he probably would have been much
00:05:08more forwardly placed than he turned out to be, so that's a potential excuse for him
00:05:12as well.
00:05:13Well, Randy, let me ask you this, you know, let's take a look at what the pace scenario
00:05:16might be.
00:05:17We know that Dragoon Guard is going to go to the lead, but what is Seize the Grace?
00:05:23Seems to be a horse that races better on the front end.
00:05:26He didn't get anywhere close to the lead in the Jim Dandy.
00:05:29Do you think that those two could perhaps get into a speed duel?
00:05:32I would think Wayne Lucas will tell his connections, go for it from the two post.
00:05:37That's what I would think, too, especially since they tried to take him back a little
00:05:40bit in the Jim Dandy.
00:05:41It was very clear that that was the strategy when you saw the race develop.
00:05:45He wasn't hustled at all in the Jim Dandy, and he didn't run very well at all.
00:05:49I mean, he finished fourth, but he was beating 12 links.
00:05:51So with the inside post, I think they have to go.
00:05:54And when you look at Dragoon Guard's races, and I watched his last four races just this
00:05:59morning, he doesn't strike you the way he runs as a one-dimensional kind of speed horse.
00:06:05He gets to the lead very easily, very smoothly, kind of well within himself.
00:06:11I think it's just, as TD pointed out, it's just a factor of the easy competition he's
00:06:17been in against, and nobody has really been able to keep up with him in the early stages
00:06:21of his races.
00:06:22So he winds up being on the lead by default.
00:06:25Watching him run, I don't think it's going to be a problem for Dragoon Guard to sit outside
00:06:30another horse or two, like maybe seize the Gray.
00:06:32I'm not saying that makes him win the race, but I don't think he's a one-dimensional front
00:06:37runner based on what I've seen.
00:06:40Well, TD, let's look at the cotillion now, and this has happened a few times over the
00:06:44years with this big day at parks, you know, and Randy spoke well of the Pennsylvania Derby
00:06:49and made some good points, but I think we would probably all agree that the highlight
00:06:52of the day is the cotillion, if for no other reason, Torpedo Anna, who is a potential horse
00:06:58of the year, is in here, and you also have Power Squeeze coming off the Alabama win,
00:07:03but she's raced twice against Torpedo Anna and got beat both times.
00:07:06I love Torpedo Anna.
00:07:07I have no great handicapping insight.
00:07:09She's going to be one to five and she's going to win, isn't she, TD?
00:07:13You would think so.
00:07:14However, the cotillion is a race in five of the last six runnings.
00:07:18The favor has gone down in flames, including one disqualification during that run.
00:07:24It's a case for me where the wallet is staying in my pocket for this race.
00:07:30I think Torpedo Anna, you can't bet on her.
00:07:32You can't bet against her.
00:07:34Rationally here, she was getting to fierceness in the late stages of the Travers.
00:07:39That's probably the benchmark race for the three-year-olds, Colts and Geldings, let alone
00:07:44three-year-old fillies taking a step up against the boys.
00:07:49You have to go into this, maybe, if you want to try some contrarian handicapping, you have
00:07:53to go into it with the grain of salt being that she's really not going to be fully cranked
00:07:58for this race. This is not the ultimate goal.
00:08:00Maybe a mile and a sixteenth doesn't give her her best shot.
00:08:04However, she doesn't need to be fully cranked for this race, doesn't need to be a world
00:08:09beater, so to speak, to win the cotillion.
00:08:11I was taking a little bit of a look here at Tarifa.
00:08:14Remember, if we wind the clock back six months, she was the early divisional leader for the
00:08:18three-year-old fillies.
00:08:20She won three straight.
00:08:21She really got lost in the shuffle of the large field in the Kentucky Oaks.
00:08:25She was freshened, came back, had a seven furlong prep at Ellis Park last time out.
00:08:30She was second in that race as the beaten favorite.
00:08:32But she might project to be stepping up to a mile in the 16th race a little bit better than
00:08:38Torpedo Anna cutting back from a mile and a quarter.
00:08:41Yeah, I'll be shocked if Torpedo Anna doesn't win in this spot.
00:08:44I mean, the horses in this race that have run against Torpedo Anna before have just been
00:08:47trounced by her.
00:08:49Yeah, I think it's Torpedo Anna and then it's all the rest.
00:08:53And it's pretty tight when you look at all the rest.
00:08:55What I'm going to do, honestly, I'm going to play an exacta with Torpedo Anna on top of a
00:09:0112-to-1 shot in a Mystic Lake who draws the far outside post position.
00:09:06She is a very, very quick filly who almost certainly is going to set the pace.
00:09:12I would think that since she's 12-to-1, they might leave her and Mike Smith alone a little
00:09:17bit on the front end. And I know Mystic Lake, you know, hasn't been successful around two
00:09:23turns before. It's only they've only tried it twice once was on synthetic, though, and the
00:09:28other one was on turf.
00:09:29And I think she's a better filly now than she was then.
00:09:32So if they leave her alone on the front end, I could easily see her hanging on for second
00:09:38after getting inhaled by Torpedo Anna at some point in the stretch.
00:09:43One more little side note about the Pennsylvania Derby and the Cotillion, one thing I noticed
00:09:48looking at the past performances, it just drives home sort of the the tragic nature of the
00:09:56loss of Sire Arrogate, right?
00:09:59We've got two by Arrogate and two good ones, right, including Seize the Gray and the
00:10:05favorite Dragoon Guard in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:10:08You got two more, including Sid Amara owned by Judd Mott, who's a contender here for, you
00:10:14know, for backup honors behind Torpedo Anna and the Cotillion.
00:10:18We lost Arrogate in 2020.
00:10:21He only had three crops before his before his tragic death at Judd Mott due to a spinal
00:10:27condition. But just in those three crops, he's had a Preakness winner in Seize the Gray.
00:10:32He's had a Belmont winner in Arcangelo.
00:10:34He's had a Kentucky Oaks winner in Secret Oath.
00:10:37And he's had numerous other graded stakes winners along the way.
00:10:40So we won't see that many more Arrogates run.
00:10:43But it's really a shame looking at how successful they've been so far.
00:10:48Well, if you think Torpedo Anna is a cinch in the Cotillion, as a lot of people do, she's not
00:10:54the biggest cinch of the day.
00:10:56And we've talked a lot about this horse.
00:10:57And normally there's so much going on.
00:10:59Why are we talking about a grade three race?
00:11:01Because Next is a really interesting horse and a really interesting story.
00:11:05And we know now that he has carved out this niche for himself at these mile and a half
00:11:10races. Nobody can touch him.
00:11:12Matter of fact, he's won six straight.
00:11:15And in his last five starts, he's won by a combined total of seventy nine and a half
00:11:20lengths. That's an average of fifteen point nine lengths per win.
00:11:25So he doesn't just win.
00:11:26He absolutely destroys these horses.
00:11:28Again, if you like one to five shots, he's all for you.
00:11:32There's absolutely no reason to believe that he would lose this race.
00:11:35And it'll be very interesting to see afterwards what they will do with him.
00:11:39Are they ever going to drop back in distance a little bit and try grade one type company?
00:11:44Would they think about the Breeders' Cup Classic?
00:11:46Who knows? They also have that thoroughbred aftercare alliance race that is run at the
00:11:50Breeders' Cup Guard, which they were supposed to run in last year.
00:11:53And I believe he got sick right before that and didn't go in there.
00:11:56But there's something about this horse is I love him and I hate him.
00:12:00I love him because he's really cool and he wins by a million lengths.
00:12:03I hate him because I want to see him run against real horses.
00:12:07Oh, he's going to be one to 20 in here.
00:12:09Yeah, it's crazy.
00:12:11Look at the past performances.
00:12:12I mean, you've got you've got this horse called Magic Michael, OK, who drew the rail.
00:12:17He won the Greenwood Cup in twenty twenty one.
00:12:21They ran him in the Greenwood Cup again in twenty twenty two.
00:12:25And he was beaten to length by a horse called Riding with Biden.
00:12:28But that was, you know, that was a BN pre next, right?
00:12:35PN pre next.
00:12:37Riding with Biden came back and ran last year against next in the Greenwood Cup as the
00:12:42defending champion and lost by twenty five lengths.
00:12:46And those are two of the leading contenders on paper other than next.
00:12:50So, I mean, there's no telling what the winning margin is going to be in here that it's
00:12:54one to twenty. You can't bet on next.
00:12:56They should have a prop bet right about margins like 16 links being the over under.
00:13:01Do you go over or you go under?
00:13:03I'd go over. I'd go over as well.
00:13:05I would go over as well.
00:13:06Yeah. You know, just because I'm one of those handicappers who if you gave me decent
00:13:11enough odds, I would bet against the sun coming up in the morning.
00:13:15I'm going to throw one one potential if you get midway through the parks card on
00:13:20Saturday and you feel you absolutely have to recoup some money by going out for
00:13:25ridiculous long shots and betting against a horse like next.
00:13:29How about Del Vernon, trained by Bill Mott, been away since July.
00:13:34He's, in fact, run against next the last two times he's been trounced, in fact, by next
00:13:40the last couple of times he's raced.
00:13:41But I wanted to check and see just an interesting statistical nugget.
00:13:45And it might not even be more than interesting because it might not factor into a win or
00:13:49translate to a win.
00:13:51But I wanted to see how trainer Bill Mott, who is a trainer I deeply respect, how he
00:13:55does with horses coming off a layoff of more than 60 days and running horses at more
00:14:00than 10 furlongs. And I figured that had to be a fairly small sample size.
00:14:04I was a little surprised when I looked that up on Formulator that in the past five
00:14:09years, he's, in fact, started 32 horses under that exact scenario off for 60 or more
00:14:15days at 10 furlongs or longer.
00:14:17He's won seven of them.
00:14:19I think that's amazing.
00:14:20That's a 22 percent win percentage.
00:14:22And it exceeds Mr.
00:14:23Mott's overall win percentage during that time, which is 17 percent.
00:14:27T.D., I have three words for you.
00:14:29Bet an exacta.
00:14:31That's the logical exacta.
00:14:33Yes, because it's what you're not going to lose.
00:14:38TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:14:40The first three books of the Keeneland September sale have featured strong trade, the
00:14:44average up over 8 percent in the median, up 5 percent.
00:14:47Sale continues through September 21.
00:14:49That's not all that's going on at Keeneland.
00:14:51The first entry to the championship sale is in the books, and that is the undefeated
00:14:55two-year-old stakes winner Kilwin.
00:14:58Kilwin is targeting the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies turf and a 25 percent interest in
00:15:02her will be offered Wednesday, October 30th in the Del Mar Paddock at the championship
00:15:06sale. We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:15:15Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of the management and staff of Keeneland,
00:15:18I would like to welcome you to the September yearling sale.
00:15:20Good to have you back with us.
00:15:21The energy at Keeneland Book One is unlike any other sale that you'll go to.
00:15:26It is the marketplace of the center of the horse universe.
00:15:29It's electric. You can't replicate the urgency that's at Keeneland September.
00:15:33Quality in quantity.
00:15:34Keeneland September Book One.
00:15:36Every breeder's dream.
00:15:41And now the fastest horse of the week brought to you by Independence Hall, one of
00:15:46those fast sires at Windstar Farm, his first yearlings are selling at Keeneland
00:15:51September as we speak.
00:15:53And as they like to say over at the farm, those yearlings are ringing the bell.
00:15:57For example, Pin Oak Stud picked up a colt by Independence Hall.
00:16:01That was hip 2064 Monday.
00:16:04The price, three hundred fifty thousand dollars.
00:16:07Kenny McPeak bought hip 1299, another colt, three hundred and ten thousand dollars.
00:16:13Here's a colt hip number one eight six six.
00:16:17He brought two hundred eighty five thousand and hip 1652 fetched two hundred
00:16:24thousand dollars. A lot of interest in those Independence Halls.
00:16:27And you've got a few more days to find yours at Keeneland September.
00:16:31Now, the fastest horse of the week that took place on Saturday at Churchill Downs on the
00:16:37undercard of the Iroquois and the Pocahontas, which we'll talk about later.
00:16:41And that was in a race called the Louisville Thoroughbred Society, a six furlong
00:16:45ungraded sprint. Three hundred thousand dollars won by happy is a choice with a career
00:16:51high one oh three buyer speed figure.
00:16:54He ran the six furlongs in one oh eight point ninety seven and ran down one of the
00:16:58most recently unlucky horses in the country, the remarkably consistent sprinter
00:17:02Skelly, who looked like he had that race home free.
00:17:06But happy is a choice co-owned by Hooties Racing, WSS Racing, a Bill Simon and 4G
00:17:12Racing trained by the hot John Ortiz ran down Skelly to be the fastest horse of the
00:17:17week at a one oh three buyer.
00:17:24And we're very pleased now to welcome in this week's guest of the week here on the
00:17:27TDN Writers Room podcast, none other than Richard Rigney, who had a huge weekend at
00:17:32Churchill Downs because he is the owner of Jonathan's Way.
00:17:35Most impressive winner of the Iroquois.
00:17:38Welcome, Richard. You got Derby fever yet?
00:17:41Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:17:43I had Derby fever about a year ago with this horse.
00:17:47So I'm real excited about about about him.
00:17:51He's he's he's quite a horse.
00:17:54And the horse was purchased as a wheelie by John Moynihan in the November sale at
00:17:59Keeneland. And we've always liked the horse.
00:18:03And we were at one time considering maybe doing some pin hooking, pin hook the horse
00:18:08and sell it as a yearling or maybe even considered as a year old in training.
00:18:15But this was such a nice, nice physical for us that we decided that there was no way
00:18:22that we were going to put the horse up for sale.
00:18:23So that's kind of unusual for us because we pin hook horses and we also breed.
00:18:29So we're in that game to sell the horses.
00:18:32This was actually the first horse that we decided that we were going to hold on to.
00:18:38Interesting. So if you had Derby fever a year ago with this horse, the Ohio bred by the
00:18:42hot sire of a coma, you must have really had the Derby fever ramp up after his debut at
00:18:48Saratoga. So impressive, despite some trouble.
00:18:52Tell us a little bit about that race and how you felt coming out of that race, going into
00:18:56the Iroquois.
00:18:58So, you know, we were real excited about going into that race.
00:19:03We felt very confident.
00:19:04And so I was a little bit like when the horse broke and got kind of pinched back, I was
00:19:12like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe this is going on.
00:19:14How disappointing.
00:19:16And, you know, you've seen these races so many times where a horse starts moving up
00:19:21through, you know, starts to be a contender and then there's nothing left.
00:19:25But you could see that he, you know, he kept going.
00:19:30He had the energy and he passed horses pretty easily, which we were unbelievably shocked
00:19:36with. So when we were going into the Iroquois, it was kind of a different situation.
00:19:43You know, we felt very confident.
00:19:45We thought that he'd be coming off the pace.
00:19:47We knew that he didn't break so great the first time in the race.
00:19:51So we we kind of felt that he was going to be maybe more, more just a little bit off
00:19:56the pace. He broke on top and we were just so amazed.
00:20:00We're like, what's Joel doing?
00:20:02Are we in trouble, Phil?
00:20:05But and then you could tell down the stretch, you know, we, you know, he ran that pretty
00:20:15easily. You know, he wasn't really asked that much.
00:20:18And, you know, that was one of the first questions I asked Joel.
00:20:21You know, did you feel like you had a horse?
00:20:23And, you know, he he barely tapped the horse once.
00:20:25And so exciting for us.
00:20:30Richard, in the aftermath of the win in the Iroquois, Phil Bauer, your trainer, said that
00:20:34the Breeders' Cup would be next.
00:20:37No prep race in between.
00:20:38A little bit of an odd spacing there, whereby the Iroquois to the Breeders' Cup juvenile
00:20:44is seven weeks.
00:20:45Was that a tough call deciding whether or not to go in another prep race prior to the
00:20:49Breeders' Cup or not?
00:20:50And what was your thinking behind the decision you ultimately made?
00:20:54You know, I think seven weeks kind of, you know, I understand that's a little bit too
00:20:58long normally for us.
00:21:00We usually like to race like usually like, you know, a month out, maybe six weeks.
00:21:06But we thought this was a good opportunity for us.
00:21:09We wanted to make sure that Jonathan's weight could get a mile.
00:21:13We thought that a mile, you know, one term mile actually made sense for us.
00:21:19So we decided, let's do this.
00:21:22Let's do this.
00:21:23I'd rather be in that situation than running three weeks out.
00:21:28You know, we've been in that situation before.
00:21:31And, you know, there's been times where we're like, oh, our horse is a little short and
00:21:36we get second or third.
00:21:37And we're like, oh, if we only had the horse, you know, maybe another week out, we would
00:21:41have been in a better spot.
00:21:44Richard, when you bought him for the $290,000 at Keeneland November, two things about him.
00:21:49Did it matter to you that he was an Ohio bred?
00:21:52I know he doesn't know where he was born, but, you know, got an Ohio bred.
00:21:56And were you guys looking in the crystal ball?
00:21:59Did you have what thoughts did you have about Vekoma as a sire?
00:22:03I mean, you got in at the right time.
00:22:06Studfy is going to go way up now.
00:22:07And he's, you know, such a good freshman sire.
00:22:10What were your thoughts about Vekoma?
00:22:13So, again, this horse was purchased as a weanling.
00:22:16And John Moynihan is our bloodstock agent.
00:22:20You know, he's looking at physicals.
00:22:22He's not looking at where they were born.
00:22:26Seldom we're like, oh, my gosh, this horse is a Maryland bred or, you know, it's kind
00:22:32of like the last thing that we really look for.
00:22:36You know, John's really good about picking out, you know, freshman sires.
00:22:39And we just thought this was a good choice for us.
00:22:45And we're kind of happy with where the horse ended up, because the person that breaks our
00:22:50horse, his name is Barry Brokelheimer at Abracadabra.
00:22:54And he was the one that purchased Harlem's Holiday.
00:22:57He was an Ohio bred.
00:22:58So it was really kind of fun for us to see that Barry had another Ohio bred.
00:23:03He was very high on this horse as well.
00:23:06So you're not just a one hit wonder, Richard.
00:23:09You've had Dream Empress and Noble's Promise at the very start.
00:23:13Grade one winners.
00:23:14Played hard.
00:23:15Grade one winner.
00:23:16We've seen Buku, who's still running in big races.
00:23:19Chijira, same thing.
00:23:21But you've kind of, I've gotten a kick out of what you and Phil Bauer have said, that
00:23:27neither of you are really good at picking out the top horses.
00:23:31And you've credited John Moynihan, you've mentioned him twice already, with sort of
00:23:34kickstarting your operation.
00:23:36Tell us a little bit about how you first got hooked up with Moynihan and what he's
00:23:39meant to your operation.
00:23:40Oh, John's made the world of a difference.
00:23:42You know, it was a big thing for me that when I was starting this business and Phil and
00:23:48I went out together, it was 11 years ago.
00:23:51And we were like, hey, you know, I have a successful business.
00:23:57You know, I make flavors.
00:23:58I've done well.
00:23:59You know, I've been doing this for 30 some odd years.
00:24:01I've never had a salesperson working for my business.
00:24:04Oh, I could do this too.
00:24:06And we were just miserable about picking horses.
00:24:08We were terrible.
00:24:10You know, and we actually, you know, today we walk around and be, oh, that would be a
00:24:13horse that we would have bought seven years ago.
00:24:17So each year, though, probably the first seven years, we were getting better each year steadily.
00:24:24And that's kind of like my philosophy is like, we knew we were getting better.
00:24:28I'm moving in the right direction.
00:24:30I'm looking long term.
00:24:32And then Denali, Craig Banderoff introduced us to John Moynihan.
00:24:38And we were like, oh, you know, sure.
00:24:41I think maybe this is something that we could do.
00:24:43I felt a little bit bad about it at first because I was a little concerned that it was
00:24:48going to diminish my value as, you know, part of the Rigney racing.
00:24:53You know, here's this guy who's going to, you know, take over and be in charge of, you
00:24:57know, picking out our yearlings.
00:24:59But it was the best thing that ever happened.
00:25:00And John can really pick out an athlete.
00:25:03And we were actually talking about it today.
00:25:06It was like, you know, of course, Bill knows horses great.
00:25:12You know, for me, I know the basic things to know about a horse when you're at the sale.
00:25:18But, you know, picking the right one, I mean, that takes a special talent.
00:25:23And that's not something that I could ever do.
00:25:26And maybe Phil could do it as time goes by.
00:25:29But obviously, John Moynihan can.
00:25:34Richard, you bring up an interesting point there.
00:25:36And it's something that I think doesn't get said a lot in our sport, in our industry.
00:25:42And in that you're a person who was successful in another business venture.
00:25:47You're a chemist by trade.
00:25:49You make flavors that go into beverages around the world.
00:25:53And the part that goes unsaid is a lot of we see a lot in our industry of successful
00:25:58businessmen and women in another sphere who kind of have the Midas touch aura about them.
00:26:05They think they can just come over to horse racing and that they will be able to replicate
00:26:09that success.
00:26:10You've admitted that it was a little harder than you thought.
00:26:13And bringing on John Moynihan was kind of another piece to the puzzle there.
00:26:19The breeding aspect of your operation seems to be the puzzle piece that's fitting in
00:26:23at a later stage.
00:26:24Tell us how that's coming along.
00:26:26And what is the scope of your breeding operation as it dovetails with your racing and other
00:26:30endeavors?
00:26:30So that's the last piece of the puzzle for Rickney Racing.
00:26:34We do pinhook horses.
00:26:38We buy yearlings and we sell them as two-year-olds in training with Eddie Woods.
00:26:42And the breeding part was the last part.
00:26:47So right now we have 20 mares with Denali.
00:26:51And plate horse and full two Gunrun right now.
00:26:55And it looks like we have a lot of horses in spills train.
00:27:00They're stake winners and stake place, which is what we're looking for.
00:27:03And we have some horses that are going to be going to Denali.
00:27:09Buku is a grade two winner.
00:27:11Kichara is a multiple graded winner.
00:27:15So we see a lot of wonderful things in the future.
00:27:19And we also have Double Sharp, who is a really nice horse as well.
00:27:23So we think we have like five or six that are in our barns right now that will end up
00:27:29going to, you know, we'll go end up being part of our brood bear band.
00:27:35Our thoughts are, we're looking to raise babies to sell.
00:27:42We're not raising babies to race.
00:27:44It's just for me, I just want to be in every possible aspect of this business
00:27:49because I love it.
00:27:50It's so much fun.
00:27:51And like, why not?
00:27:55This is great.
00:27:56You know, and I'm with wonderful people.
00:27:58I couldn't be with better people than Phil.
00:28:01You know, I love Phil.
00:28:02He's such a great person.
00:28:03You know, I could be with him every day and I would never get tired of him.
00:28:07And it's been a great addition to have John Moynihan.
00:28:11I was a little surprised that, you know, we became such close friends.
00:28:15And I'm actually, you know, John and Helena, they have a daughter named Sophia.
00:28:21That's going to be three.
00:28:23You know, I'm the godfather to John's daughter.
00:28:28So it's like, we're all kind of like family.
00:28:31You know, we go on vacations together and we're just a close knit group.
00:28:37And Richard, talk about if you would, I want to ask you some questions about Phil.
00:28:41You're doing something that's old school.
00:28:43Back in the day, when stables like Rokeby Stables or the Phipps or something like that,
00:28:47people would have private trainers.
00:28:50We see almost none of that in this day and age.
00:28:53That's why Todd Pletcher and Chad Brown and Bob Baffert have all the horses
00:28:57because they also have dozens of owners.
00:28:59What was it about Phil that you brought him on?
00:29:01And what was it about him or the situation where you wanted to go that route?
00:29:06This guy's my trainer and I'm not worried about anybody else.
00:29:11So Phil Bauer was assistant trainer to Kenny McPeak.
00:29:15And Phil was the assistant trainer for Noble's Promise.
00:29:19And then I had a couple of other horses that had done well.
00:29:23Put the Babies Down was a horse that was with Phil.
00:29:26And we had another one was R Double Play.
00:29:29You know, a lot of these names are all based upon my kids.
00:29:33I have twins.
00:29:33That's why it's R Double Play.
00:29:35And Put the Babies Down was my son's first sentence to me
00:29:41when I was holding the twins.
00:29:42Put the Babies Down.
00:29:43Isn't that awesome?
00:29:47So when I met Phil, you know, it was like, you know,
00:29:49he was very tentative towards me and we got along great.
00:29:53We have very kind of similar personalities.
00:29:56So it was easy for us to be close friends.
00:29:59And it was just like, you know what?
00:30:01Wouldn't it be great?
00:30:01I wouldn't mind growing this business.
00:30:04But if I'm going to grow this business and try,
00:30:07I would like to do it with you, Phil.
00:30:09And so he agreed.
00:30:11And, you know, we had some rough years at first.
00:30:15And, you know, this business can be really, you know, difficult to be in.
00:30:20And, you know, it's like you're doing great if you're winning at a 20% clip.
00:30:24But, you know, our first five years we were doing terrible.
00:30:27And, you know, all I was getting was phone calls from other trainers.
00:30:29Hey, you know, hey, you need to make some switches.
00:30:32And I would never do that.
00:30:35I would always be with Phil.
00:30:36If I'm not with Phil, I'm not going to be in this business.
00:30:42So, Richard, you mentioned that you're so tight with Phil and John Moynihan
00:30:46that sometimes you take vacations together.
00:30:48So I've got to ask you about this potentially life-changing moment.
00:30:53Was it a year and a half ago or so?
00:30:54You, Phil Bauer, John Moynihan, your 14-year-old daughter
00:30:59took a horse vacation of sorts to Australia,
00:31:03wound up in a private plane.
00:31:07Tell us a little bit about what happened at that point,
00:31:09where you were going in Australia on that plane and what transpired.
00:31:13So my wife and I were scuba divers.
00:31:16And so the island we went to was called Lizard Island.
00:31:19So we were like, hey, let's invite John and Helena to go with us.
00:31:23And I've talked Phil into being a scuba diver with his wife.
00:31:27So that's how the trip began.
00:31:30I ended up getting my daughter scuba certified.
00:31:33And so it was us.
00:31:35And there was another close friend of ours.
00:31:39Her name's Mariah.
00:31:39You'll notice that I'll name some horses Mariah.
00:31:42So she was our kid's nanny.
00:31:43And we were just so close with her.
00:31:46I'm very similar to the way I'm close with Phil.
00:31:49And her husband took him along.
00:31:52And so I've got them scuba certified.
00:31:55So we had such a wonderful trip.
00:31:58You know, it was one of the last islands that Captain Cook had discovered.
00:32:06And so it's just a beautiful place.
00:32:08And we were on a small plane.
00:32:11And we took off.
00:32:13And we were just like, all of a sudden, the plane went up high.
00:32:17And he was turning around to go back home.
00:32:20And we were like, oh, no, what's going on?
00:32:22And we saw that the lights to the instruments, they were like red.
00:32:29So we knew that there was a problem.
00:32:31And when we were landing, I was like, I think we're going to be OK.
00:32:34You know, he was going really low.
00:32:37And we end up going halfway down the runway, not even getting close to landing.
00:32:41He turns the plane sideways to try and slow it down.
00:32:46And we hit maybe about 20 yards at the end of the runway.
00:32:50And we flipped a couple of times.
00:32:52And it's kind of really how all of us look at it from a different angle.
00:33:00Things that people remember.
00:33:03And for me, the crash was very scary, of course.
00:33:09So John Moynihan was in front of me.
00:33:11Phil Bauer was behind me.
00:33:14And I get hit by a tree during this crash.
00:33:18And, you know, I was, you know, we were talking about it and like a couple of weeks go by
00:33:23and Phil's like, you did not get hit by a tree.
00:33:25And he's convinced me that I haven't.
00:33:28And then we talked further.
00:33:29It was like he didn't know I got hit by a tree because he had his eyes closed.
00:33:35So the friend that I'm talking about named Mariah, we had a Toy Story 3 moment where
00:33:41they're all going to get incinerated.
00:33:42So we all looked at each other, didn't say any words.
00:33:45And so Mariah and my 14 year old daughter, Madison, all three of us were like, this is
00:33:51over.
00:33:52We just hold hands.
00:33:53We didn't say one word.
00:33:55So pretty scary.
00:33:56We were walking away from it.
00:33:59You know, Phil says that, you know, he said when I was coming out of the plane, it was
00:34:02like there was nothing there, Richard.
00:34:04You were like just looking right through me.
00:34:07And the thing that really upset me was like, I'm a very maternal dude.
00:34:13So the first thing I'm looking for is my daughter.
00:34:17And so I'm kind of staggering out of the plane.
00:34:19I got blood all over me.
00:34:21And she thinks I'm dying trying to get to her.
00:34:24And so she's all upset.
00:34:26But, you know, of course, everything worked out well.
00:34:30I'm just so fortunate to be with all the people that I was with to, you know.
00:34:38And we just started getting on planes again.
00:34:39We thought we weren't going to be able to go on planes again.
00:34:41And our first private jet was we were at Saratoga running.
00:34:47And then we ended up that night going to Charles Town to go to the races there.
00:34:53And I was like, so we made it.
00:34:56We survived.
00:34:56We're OK.
00:34:57I think we're going to start traveling again.
00:35:00I was talking to Mariah today about going back to South Africa and to Mozambique.
00:35:05So I think that's going to happen.
00:35:12Richard, one of the and maybe your experience has shaped you.
00:35:15I've never met you in person, but I've always been taken by watching your
00:35:19post-race winner's circle interviews and the fun that you exude, the ecstasy,
00:35:27the thrill, the sense of family that you project when you talk about Phil
00:35:31and the employees that work under him in the racing stable.
00:35:35I'm just wondering, do you ever look around our sport
00:35:38and see that you're a bit of an outlier in that respect?
00:35:42No, I don't.
00:35:43You know, I don't really pay attention to that.
00:35:45I mean, I do what's important to me.
00:35:48You know, I always do exactly the same thing.
00:35:51I walk out onto the track and I either congratulate the jockey or, you know,
00:35:57say thank you to him.
00:35:58And then if we're ever in the winner's circle, you'll notice that I'm always
00:36:02the furthest away from the horse and I'm standing with our workers.
00:36:06So I do exactly the same thing.
00:36:08You know, at the beginning of the race, when the jockey goes up,
00:36:12I always say the same thing.
00:36:13Be safe.
00:36:14Yeah, it's just the way I am.
00:36:16Richard, we're recording this on Tuesday.
00:36:18So we're in the middle of the Keeneland sale.
00:36:20But I looked up, guys, I want to get back to your pinhooking operation.
00:36:25Not counting, I think you said you bought something today on Tuesday,
00:36:29which I don't have down.
00:36:29But you bought three horses at Keeneland, two fillies and a colt.
00:36:33Then you bought one horse at Fasig-Tipton, a Medaglia d'Oro for $975,000.
00:36:38Those fillies, did you buy them to pinhook them?
00:36:41Or did you buy them to join your broodmare band someday?
00:36:45To be in the broodmare band.
00:36:47Okay, so you will race them then, right?
00:36:49I'm going to be racing all these horses, I believe.
00:36:51Okay.
00:36:52But is that a little bit different?
00:36:53Because you said before that, you know, you like to pinhook things that you bought at the sale.
00:36:58That's usually book four and five.
00:37:01Okay, gotcha.
00:37:02Well, Richard Rigney, thanks so much for joining us.
00:37:04And I see that smile on your face.
00:37:06I'd be smiling too if I owned Jonathan's way.
00:37:09By the way, we wouldn't tell our audience yet who's named after your son.
00:37:12But very impressive winner of the Iroquois.
00:37:14And reserve a spot for talk to us the week of the Derby, okay?
00:37:19Okay, absolutely.
00:37:20Thank you guys for your time.
00:37:22We appreciate it.
00:37:22Thank you, Richard.
00:37:25The TDN Writer's Room, also brought to you by the PHBA,
00:37:28the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association and Pennsylvania Bred Icona Mama.
00:37:33Outran her 30 to 1 odds to be a nice third on Saturday in the Pocahontas at Churchill
00:37:38for two-year-old fillies.
00:37:39And she earned her first Kentucky Oaks points in the process.
00:37:43Meanwhile, roses for Debra, the top Pennsylvania bred mare,
00:37:47supposed to run this Friday in the $300,000 Presque Isle Downs Master's Stakes.
00:37:53That's a grade two at Presque Isle Downs on Tapeda, of course.
00:37:57And the Keystone State has picked up a new stallion for 2025.
00:38:00Graded Stakes winner, the millionaire Zozos.
00:38:03We've talked about him a lot.
00:38:04The Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile.
00:38:06He'll stand at Equistar Training and Breeding in the great state of Pennsylvania.
00:38:11For more information on how you can get involved in that lucrative
00:38:14Pennsylvania breeding and racing program,
00:38:16here's two options.
00:38:17You can go online at pabred.com or you can call 610-444-1050.
00:38:27PA Bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
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00:39:27TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV,
00:39:29and the XBTV Work of the Week is Pacific Classic winner Mixto.
00:39:33Mixto worked an easy three furlongs in 36.60 for trainer Doug O'Neill.
00:39:38When the four-year-old colt won the Pacific Classic,
00:39:40he earned a free berth into the Breeders' Cup Classic on November 2nd at Del Mar.
00:39:45O'Neill said, in fact, that the Classic would be his next start.
00:39:49Well, we just got done talking with Richard Rigney,
00:39:51so you already know a lot of the story about Jonathan's way.
00:39:54Let's get some opinions from our group here.
00:39:59TD, you had a very interesting story in the TDN,
00:40:01kind of going over the history of this race.
00:40:0430 Iroquois starters have run in the Kentucky Derby,
00:40:08and their record is 30 starts, no wins, one second, one third.
00:40:13It has certainly not been a key race to get horses ready for the Kentucky Derby,
00:40:17and it's only September of their two-year-old year.
00:40:20I mean, eight million things can happen between now and then,
00:40:23but I really like this horse's race.
00:40:25It was a decent field.
00:40:26I also like the way he went right to the front,
00:40:29and he didn't really ever have a breather.
00:40:30I mean, it's not like he got loose in 48.
00:40:33They were kind of knocking heads with him the whole way.
00:40:36He had every right to tire in the stretch,
00:40:38and then instead, he just drew off and won easily for Phil Bauer and Richard Rigney.
00:40:44They'll go next in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile,
00:40:47and that'll be a tough assignment,
00:40:49but certainly this horse right now, to me, looks as good as any two-year-old out there.
00:40:53Randy?
00:40:54Yeah, Rigney was talking about the difference between his career debut at Saratoga
00:40:59and his race in the Pocahontas, and for horse players,
00:41:03after the maiden win, when he was wiped out at the start,
00:41:07he was bumped, he was forced back, squeezed back,
00:41:09he was last a few strides out of the gate, maybe five or six lengths back.
00:41:14There's really no way to know for horse players.
00:41:17I mean, maybe Rigney and Phil Bauer knew,
00:41:18but no way for us to know exactly what the preferred running style of Jonathan's way would be.
00:41:25I mean, how much speed does he naturally have?
00:41:28And sometimes we even heard this about Secretariat
00:41:33after he suffered sort of a similar fate in his career debut.
00:41:37Sometimes horses remember that, young horses,
00:41:39and it affects them a little bit the second time they run.
00:41:44They break out of the gate and maybe aren't quite too sure what's going to happen to them this time.
00:41:48Not Jonathan's way.
00:41:50I mean, he aggressively went to the early lead with Joel Rosario.
00:41:54And like you said, Bill, I mean, the fractions weren't soft,
00:41:5746 and change for a half mile.
00:41:58I know it's one turn, but those are still solid fractions, and he kicked away nicely.
00:42:02Now, does that make him a legitimate Kentucky Derby favorite for next year?
00:42:08I don't think you can say that right now at this point, even up to now.
00:42:13But it's certainly, he's a nice horse.
00:42:16And Vekoma has turned out to be just a sensational stallion.
00:42:20And that's another plus in his column as well.
00:42:24You know, getting back to the historical tidbit that Bill referenced regarding the Iroquois
00:42:29as a prognosticator of not great success in the Kentucky Derby 0 for 30.
00:42:35One thing you do have to remember is that a generation ago,
00:42:40when Connections won the Iroquois, they were not immediately talking the Kentucky Derby.
00:42:44The horse who won the Iroquois was not in the headlines
00:42:47of a column the next day about being a favorite for the Kentucky Derby,
00:42:51because people didn't think that way.
00:42:53And they didn't train their horses that way until the advent of
00:42:58the point system that came in to determine starting berths.
00:43:01So it is, yeah, it is pushing the envelope a little too early here to be talking about
00:43:05Jonathan's Way being a favorite for a race that is seven and a half months from now at
00:43:1010 furlongs in a field of 20 compared to the one turn mile that he won on Saturday.
00:43:14However, you know, like it or not, the Derby point system is here to stay for the time being.
00:43:20And last year, it did produce a Derby starters,
00:43:23West Saratoga, whose only winning points, 10 of them,
00:43:27were earned by virtue of winning the Iroquois back in September.
00:43:31And last year's Iroquois also gave us Seas the Gray.
00:43:34Seas the Gray went on to win the Preakness.
00:43:38Tagging on to what Randy said about Vekoma too, very interesting how Jonathan's Way,
00:43:43his first two races, limited sample size here, mirror the first two races of his sire.
00:43:49Jonathan's Way won a six furlong maiden special weight on the New York Circuit,
00:43:53then won a one turn mile stakes race the Iroquois.
00:43:57Vekoma got a late start because he was a May 22nd full.
00:44:01He broke his maiden in September at Belmont Park going six furlongs.
00:44:05Then bypassed the Breeders' Cup on the same weekend,
00:44:08won the Nashua Stakes, a one turn mile at Aqueduct.
00:44:11So they are kind of right out of the gate.
00:44:12Vekoma and his offspring, Jonathan's Way, very similar to this point.
00:44:17I'll give you one horse though that I was watching more than Jonathan's Way in this race,
00:44:22and that's Owen Almighty, the runner up in this race.
00:44:25Good race.
00:44:26He broke well.
00:44:27He stalked in third.
00:44:29And something that the running line does not capture
00:44:31is that he suffered multiple momentum losses in that race.
00:44:35He got shuffled all the way back to sixth at one point.
00:44:38That's not reflected in his running line.
00:44:40And he re-rallied, came through traffic.
00:44:41I like to watch these two-year-olds who really cut through traffic.
00:44:45And once he tipped out and got clear, he was best of the rest.
00:44:48Let's give a little more love to Vekoma while we're talking about Jonathan's Way.
00:44:53Vekoma is his first crop to race right now.
00:44:59He's already had 13 first-time starter winners.
00:45:03I mean, this horse has just become a remarkable stallion in his very first year.
00:45:08And I'll be honest with you, shocked the heck out of me.
00:45:11As fast as Vekoma was, the one thing that we all remember about Vekoma
00:45:16is what horrible action that he had.
00:45:19He was one of the worst paddlers for a good horse that I've ever seen.
00:45:25And that typically means that the horse has terribly bad conformation,
00:45:30which breeders try to stay away from.
00:45:33And as it turns out, Spin Thrift Farm decided to stand him.
00:45:38And he started with only a modest $20,000 stud fee that was then dropped to $15,000.
00:45:46I think some breeders were obviously concerned about Vekoma's action.
00:45:50But one thing that's interesting about Vekoma
00:45:52is that his confirmation is not nearly as bad in his front legs
00:45:57as that severe paddling action made it look.
00:46:01The people at Spin Thrift were very surprised
00:46:03when they actually were thinking about standing Vekoma
00:46:07and got a look at him up close.
00:46:09And the confirmation is, it's not perfect,
00:46:13but it's not nearly as severe as you would have expected.
00:46:17And lo and behold, Vekoma has now become,
00:46:19I mean, one of the hottest sires in America.
00:46:20He's really on a roll.
00:46:22Four grade one stakes at Woodbine last weekend.
00:46:25And guys, let's do this.
00:46:26Let's go through them.
00:46:27I'll do them in chronological order.
00:46:29So just so you know, you can follow along what I'm doing.
00:46:31The Johnny Walker Natalma grade one prep for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf.
00:46:37Mark Cassie entered eight horses in this race.
00:46:39That's not a misprint.
00:46:41That's not a mistake.
00:46:43He entered eight.
00:46:43He only ran six of them in this race.
00:46:46But you figure Cassie would win.
00:46:48He did.
00:46:49But I don't think you would figure he would win with a horse that won.
00:46:53One more time, went off at 16 to one with Rafael Hernandez aboard.
00:46:58And he was the winner of this race in a very exciting finish.
00:47:02Cassie was one, two, three.
00:47:04And I might want to get more into this later, but I'll start now.
00:47:07Mountain Breeze from the Charlie Appleby barn was four to five.
00:47:11And Appleby stunk up the joint at Woodbine over the weekend,
00:47:17which is just he's still a great trainer, but he's not happy.
00:47:20I mean, the bar was raised too high.
00:47:23Figure the guy can't always win 50% of his races, which is generally what he was doing.
00:47:28And he's still winning like 25% this year.
00:47:30But the Charlie Appleby mojo isn't quite what it used to be, so it appears.
00:47:36A $2 trifecta of those three Mark Cassie horses would have paid $2,200, right?
00:47:47What I found interesting as they were coming down the stretch,
00:47:49the three Cassie horses were dueling, right?
00:47:51You had Nitrogen, the pace setter on the inside, 41 to one.
00:47:55You had Vixen, Johnny Velasquez on the outside.
00:47:58And then you had Anne one more time in the middle.
00:48:01You had Sahin Savatchi was the rider on Nitrogen, Johnny Velasquez on Vixen.
00:48:06So Anne one more time in the middle with Hernandez.
00:48:09I'm watching the race and I'm thinking, he's going to the whip an awful lot.
00:48:13And I went back and I watched the head on and Velasquez and Savatchi
00:48:17went to the whips maybe four, five, six times.
00:48:20I counted 13 whip strokes from Rafael Hernandez in the middle of them with Anne one more time.
00:48:27And he responded to edge away in the final yards.
00:48:30And I thought, okay, here we go.
00:48:32This is going to be a controversy.
00:48:34This is going to be a fine, if not a suspension.
00:48:37But then I remembered, HISA does not apply to Canada.
00:48:42The FTC has no jurisdiction over Woodbine.
00:48:46And the Woodbine rules do not limit the number of whip strokes that a jockey
00:48:51can make during the running of a race.
00:48:53Their only stipulation is that the whip has to be underhanded.
00:48:56There can be no overhand strokes.
00:48:58And all of Rafael Hernandez's whip strokes were underhanded.
00:49:03I thought that was pretty interesting when I came to the wire that he responded to that
00:49:06and won at a pretty nice price.
00:49:08But I don't think any of these three horses really are going to be strong contenders
00:49:12for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies turf.
00:49:16And one more time was 16 to 1 in the betting.
00:49:19And I think you have to attribute part of that to the fact that, well, he had never
00:49:23run on the turf before.
00:49:24And this was a grass race.
00:49:25He had never run long before.
00:49:27And this was a one turn mile.
00:49:30He was the beaten favorite in his debut at Churchill.
00:49:33He was then a winning favorite in an off the turfer on the mud at Saratoga.
00:49:37And even if you don't look at these three for the Breeders' Cup, and I do agree with
00:49:41you, I concur with you there, Randy.
00:49:43If you're looking for other betting prospects, take a look at that August 8th maiden special
00:49:48weight.
00:49:48It was a sprint off the turf on a muddy track at Saratoga.
00:49:52It's now yielded four winners to come out of that.
00:49:55Three horses broke their maiden and the winner of the Natalma.
00:49:59And one more time, he has won a stakes race.
00:50:02Next up on the calendar at Woodbine was the EP Taylor.
00:50:05If they had an award for the ride of the year, it's over.
00:50:10It was won by Kazuchi Kimura in this race with a full count Felicia.
00:50:15What an oddly run race and what a smart ride.
00:50:18So we've seen horses get out front like this in these races.
00:50:21Usually they're like the rabbit or 60, 50 to one shot.
00:50:25And they come back by the time they hit the 16th ball, they're nowhere to be found.
00:50:30He got this horse in front by 14 lengths and the half went in 48.
00:50:36One point he was 19 lengths in front.
00:50:39I'm not, you know, and nobody had any idea what was like.
00:50:42It's like the other jockeys were paralyzed behind him.
00:50:44They didn't do anything.
00:50:45You can't let a horse of this quality get a 20 length lead under fairly modest fractions.
00:50:53So he beats the, excuse me, she beats her more
00:50:57heralded stable mate, Maura, who really didn't show much in there.
00:51:01But if you haven't watched this replay of this race, do yourself a favor.
00:51:06This is unlike any race I've almost ever seen.
00:51:09TD, what'd you think?
00:51:10Yeah, I agree.
00:51:11That was the first thing that stood out for me.
00:51:13I mean, not only how infrequently do you see this occurrence in racing in general,
00:51:20a horse getting out to a lead of, it might've been 20 lengths.
00:51:22It just happened to be at that point in the chart call.
00:51:25It was called 19.
00:51:26It could have been a little bit more, but how often have you seen in a grade one race
00:51:31at a mile and a quarter, a horse doing that and hanging on to win?
00:51:35Trainer Kevin Attard, we'll give him some congrats.
00:51:37He ran one, two in this race, but it was not the way he intended.
00:51:41Maura has now been the beaten favorite in the EP Taylor in each of the last three runnings.
00:51:46Yeah, it was a good ride by Kazushi Kimura, but I mean, she was the only speed in the race.
00:51:52Her best races had come on the front end.
00:51:55It was really no doubt that he was going to the lead.
00:51:58I mean, it wasn't Kazushi Kimura that put this horse on a 19 length lead.
00:52:02It was the other jockeys behind him.
00:52:05John Velasquez is one of the best judges of pace ever, and one of my all-time favorite riders.
00:52:12He's sitting back there with Fevrover in second going, what, 15 and change?
00:52:18I guess they thought Full Count Felicia had no chance, but she had run some really good races
00:52:23when she was on an uncontested early lead.
00:52:26Maura, the same thing with, again, Rafael Hernandez, the jockey aboard her.
00:52:29They're just sitting back there as if Full Count Felicia had no chance up front,
00:52:34and I know they're kicking themselves right now.
00:52:38I know Johnny V wishes he had a mulligan to be able to go back and keep Fevrover a little bit
00:52:44closer than he did, but all credit to Full Count Felicia who ran hard from start to finish,
00:52:49pretty hard.
00:52:50She didn't go very fast early.
00:52:52Next up on the card among the grade ones was the Summer Stakes, two-year-old males on the turf
00:52:58getting ready for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf,
00:53:01and the public zeroed in on the two European horses, Alcudra and New Century.
00:53:07Just logically, Alcudra is supposed to beat New Century.
00:53:11They had run against each other twice overseas, and Alcudra won both of those races,
00:53:17but New Century turned the tables on him.
00:53:20Again, Charlie Appleby, no disgrace to run second, but again, this was another Charlie
00:53:25Appleby favorite and a big favorite that this horse was even money.
00:53:30It did not get to the winner's circle, Randy.
00:53:32This was a huge, huge effort for not just New Century and Alcudra, but also the third-place
00:53:39finisher, Dream On.
00:53:41The buyer speed figure for New Century and O'Sheen Murphy, Andrew Balding, the trainer,
00:53:4793.
00:53:49Since buyer speed figures were first published in the Daily Racing form in 1992,
00:53:56no two-year-old on turf as of September 14th in their two-year-old year had ever run a
00:54:05figure as high as a 93 buyer speed figure.
00:54:09That makes these horses, I think right now, pretty solid favorites, early favorites for
00:54:16the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf.
00:54:17Now, I know Woodbine, two-year-old form, around one turn, super long stretch, mile
00:54:25and a half oval, doesn't always translate to two turns, one mile, it's less than one
00:54:31mile at Delmar, the turf oval there.
00:54:34It's not always apples to apples, but these two horses who were last and next to last
00:54:38early, TD, just literally ran a hole in the wind to finish up, ran very well.
00:54:43Yeah, and there was a lot of shifting and drifting late in the lane.
00:54:48I think this is a race that requires a little bit of scrutiny on the head-on replay.
00:54:53The leader was tiring, and I think the horse who took the worst of that shifting and drifting
00:54:57was Alcudra.
00:54:59He had a full head of steam, kind of shied twice when asked to kick on between horses
00:55:05as gaps were closing, didn't really do it.
00:55:08Something that's forgivable, I think, at this stage of a two-year-old's career.
00:55:12And the biggest, the marquee race of the day was the Woodbine Mile, grade one purse of
00:55:16$1 million.
00:55:18And Mark Cassie, there's that man again.
00:55:20He finished one-two, win for the money, gets the job done.
00:55:25How do you pronounce this?
00:55:26Filo D'Ariana ran second for Mark Cassie as well.
00:55:31But the big disappointment, I'm sorry to pick on Charlie Appleby, but he had a bad day.
00:55:36Naval Power went off at one to two, coming off a second-place finish in the Turf Classic
00:55:41at Churchill Downs, and ran fourth and didn't show very much, Randy.
00:55:46This was all about the trip.
00:55:4851-year-old Patrick Husbands worked out a great trip for win for the money, who ran
00:55:53back to the 102 buyer that he had run a few races back in Kentucky, sat on the rail, waited,
00:55:58waited, waited, followed Naval Power, the Charlie Appleby horse, around the second turn.
00:56:03Naval Power came off the rail, Husbands went right up through, and it was really all about
00:56:07the trip.
00:56:08I mean, nice effort for the veteran Filo D'Ariana to run second.
00:56:12I don't think any of these horses are going to be strong contenders for the Breeders'
00:56:17Cup mile.
00:56:18What I think is interesting here, it's kind of funny in a way.
00:56:21So Mark Cassie's won the Natalma now, counting this year, eight times.
00:56:25He's won the Woodbine mile now.
00:56:27This is his third Woodbine mile win.
00:56:29He's won the Summer Stakes four times in his career.
00:56:32He didn't win it this year, but he's won it four times.
00:56:35Didn't see any of them.
00:56:37Wasn't at Woodbine for any of those performances.
00:56:40Most of them were on the same day, of course.
00:56:42He's always at the Keeneland sale.
00:56:45It was in a news article that I read, but I also had talked to Cassie about that previous
00:56:48years covering these Woodbine races.
00:56:50And he always says, hey, it's past history.
00:56:53I'm looking forward.
00:56:54I'm looking to the next generation of top horses that I can maybe pick out at Keeneland.
00:56:59So he watched it on TV from Keeneland as he ran one, two, three in the Natalma, and won
00:57:05two in the Woodbine mile.
00:57:07Mark Cassie, he was one, two in the Woodbine mile.
00:57:10One, two, six, as a matter of fact.
00:57:12And that's after coming, as we said, running one, two, three, five, ten in the Natalma.
00:57:18Fila de Ariana, the horse for the course, almost pulled it off here.
00:57:22This is kind of a neat horse.
00:57:23Eight years old.
00:57:25Five for five over that course at Woodbine.
00:57:27Almost got the job done, but lost to his stablemate who got the inside trip.
00:57:32We're pleased to be joined now by Emma Berry, the TDN's European editor.
00:57:35And the segment where we learn what's going on overseas.
00:57:38And this is called News You Can Use.
00:57:40It's presented by Darley.
00:57:41And we're pleased to be joined by Emma.
00:57:44It's sales time.
00:57:45Obviously, as we're talking about this, it's the middle of the Keeneland sale.
00:57:48But after Keeneland is over, a lot of the attention is going to turn to the big yearling
00:57:52sales in Europe.
00:57:54We've seen such huge interest in Keeneland this year and the offspring of freshman sires.
00:57:59Are there any comparable young stallions in Europe that everybody's excited about?
00:58:03Yeah, it's certainly going to be interesting to see over the next four weeks of sales,
00:58:08really, from next week in Britain, Ireland, and France.
00:58:11But the two sort of main elite sales, if you like, are feelings in Ireland first with the
00:58:16Goths Orby sale, and then book one at Tassels October in Newmarket.
00:58:21So you're used to in those sales seeing the really big names coming out.
00:58:28There'll be plenty of Dubawis and Frankles, Siunis, all of that.
00:58:31But probably two of, I suppose, the sort of more interesting first season sires, we've
00:58:37already talked about one of them, actually, ahead of the Arcana sale, and that was St
00:58:41Mark's Basilica.
00:58:42He's got even more yearlings to come now, especially in Ireland, and also at book one.
00:58:48He was a terrific racehorse.
00:58:51He only ran four times at three.
00:58:52He was a group one winner at two, and then in his four starts at three, he ran in four
00:58:58group ones and won them all.
00:58:59In three different countries, he's coming in, I'm sure, with a lot of hope behind him
00:59:04and some really nice mares that were sent to him.
00:59:09He had one of his yearlings actually in the Goths Orby sale, had a very nice update at
00:59:13the weekend.
00:59:14His half-brother, Jan Brueghel, won the St Ledger.
00:59:17So that'll be one to look out for.
00:59:19And then we've got Space Blues, who'll be so familiar to plenty of American listeners
00:59:24as well, you know, Breeders' Cup mile winner, as well as being one of the fastest sons of
00:59:29Dubawi here.
00:59:30He won the Prix de la Forêt over seven furlongs in France.
00:59:36I think he was the first of three consecutive Breeders' Cup mile winners for Charlie Appleby
00:59:40and for Dubawi as well.
00:59:41So his first yearlings are coming out.
00:59:44There are plenty of those in the Orby sale.
00:59:46He stands in Ireland at Kildang and Stud.
00:59:48And yeah, I think, you know, we've already seen a couple of sons of Dubawi actually come
00:59:54through.
00:59:55Night of Thunder is the sire of economics.
00:59:57He was so exciting at the weekend.
00:59:59And the Irish Champion Stakes and, of course, Too Darn Hot, another young stallion.
01:00:03So again, there'll be plenty of hope, I'm sure, that Space Blues can be one of those
01:00:07sons of Dubawi that comes through with some exciting young runners from next year.
01:00:13So, Emma, as we know all too well, on this side of the pond, our turf racing is nowhere
01:00:20near as good as the turf racing on your side of the pond.
01:00:23But it's getting better.
01:00:25It's getting more popular with owners over here.
01:00:27More and more turf races are being carded over here.
01:00:30And kind of dovetailing with that, we've seen increased American participation at Orby,
01:00:36at the October sales over there, Peter Brandt and some others.
01:00:43Can we expect to see more of the same this year with the Americans coming over there
01:00:46to your sales?
01:00:47I would certainly think so, yes.
01:00:49And I mean, I'd love to see in the future, turf stallions being better supported by American
01:00:54breeders, you know, in Kentucky and elsewhere.
01:00:57Whether that will happen ever or not, I don't know.
01:00:59But in the meantime, I suppose the flip side of that for Europe is that it does entice
01:01:04plenty of American buyers to these sales.
01:01:07You know, over the last few years, we've seen, well, Chad Brown's a regular with Mike
01:01:11Ryan and the Claravich Stables team.
01:01:13And they've, you know, really reaped the rewards of working the sales really hard here
01:01:17with them.
01:01:18And I think there's three turf classic winners that have come from book one alone in recent
01:01:22years, program trading and domestic spending.
01:01:24I think Digital Age was another.
01:01:28You know, we've seen Breeders' Cup winners on Pearl and Newspaper Record.
01:01:33So with those kind of results being a regular feature, it's absolutely easy to expect to
01:01:40see, you know, I think as many American buyers, if not a few more this year coming.
01:01:45Because, you know, as you say, the turf program is expanding in America and it's certainly
01:01:49worth looking at that profile, of course, to have some really good prize money.
01:01:56Emma, are there any particular eye-catching lots that you might expect that we'll be
01:02:01reading about here in the States in the headlines of the European TDN?
01:02:05Anybody that really catches your eye at the Orby or the Tattersall's October sales?
01:02:11I think the one yearling that everyone will be making a beeline for when she arrives at
01:02:16Park Paddocks at Tattersall's will be the full sister to Alpinista, who won the ARC
01:02:20a couple of years ago for her breeder, Kirsten Rousing.
01:02:23The full sister's coming to book one and, you know, she's got to be a star attraction.
01:02:31You know, even if she never races, which we all certainly hope she will, and that's a family that
01:02:37just turns out winner after winner after winner.
01:02:40But, you know, for pedigree alone, she's, you know, a real, really attractive prospect.
01:02:45And yeah, I think she will be the one that there'll be plenty, there'll be a big crowd
01:02:50around her, I'm sure, once she gets there.
01:02:52It'll be so interesting to see.
01:02:53And the Orby, I'm really looking forward to seeing the full brother to Luxembourg, who
01:02:58is a horse that I never really think gets enough love.
01:03:01He's a group one winner at two, three, four, and five.
01:03:03I don't think there are many horses you can say that about.
01:03:06And he's by Camelot, his full brother's featuring in the Orby.
01:03:09So yeah, we'll see what he can do as well.
01:03:13Well, Emma, thanks for joining us and filling us in on the European sales scene.
01:03:17This has been News You Can Use, presented by Darling, and we'll catch up with you again
01:03:20soon, OK?
01:03:21Great to see you.
01:03:22Thanks.
01:03:23Well, Emma told you a little bit earlier about Space Blues, the Darling Stallion, and his
01:03:28yearlings will be selling now at the upcoming sales.
01:03:31But here's a little bit more about Space Blues.
01:03:33He covered a book of 160 mares back in 2022, his very first season at stud, 122 of which
01:03:42are related to or are stakes winners.
01:03:45Some other Space Blues facts.
01:03:47His first crop included the progeny from grade one winning mares, Everlove and Penelopa,
01:03:5119 from sisters to grade one winners.
01:03:54His second and third years at stud saw him cover more mares than in his first year, 375
01:04:00mares in total covered.
01:04:02Of those, 265 are stakes winners or relatives from his second crop of foals born earlier
01:04:09this year at a fee of 16,000 euros.
01:04:12There are 23 out of stakes performing dams and another 23 that are siblings to black
01:04:18type horses.
01:04:19And Space Blues currently has 149 in full mares carrying his third crop at stud.
01:04:27This has been news.
01:04:28You can use part two presented by Darling.
01:04:32He's on the outside here with a great turn of thought.
01:04:42Space Blues, Space Blues, Space Blues, Space Blues,
01:04:45Dance every dance.
01:04:45We enjoy the sound horse.
01:04:47After every run, he always comes back for more.
01:04:48He's a true that goes out there and he gives everything.
01:05:00All the thrills.
01:05:04Fraction of the bills.
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01:05:26Visit westpointtb.com.
01:05:29The TD and Riders Room also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:05:33Terry Finley and company busy adding prospects to Keeneland September.
01:05:36But meanwhile, West Point got its 17th stakes win of the year when French newcomer
01:05:41Leray scored in her American debut in the winter memory stakes at the Big A last Friday.
01:05:46West Point runners have now earned more than $7.4 million so far in 2024.
01:05:53That's second in West Point history behind their year back in 2022 led by Flightline
01:05:59that reached $8.7 million.
01:06:01So that figure is within reach.
01:06:04They could get that by the end of 2024.
01:06:07Well, what about the Keeneland sale?
01:06:09Where's Zoe to help us out with this?
01:06:11She's our sales expert.
01:06:13Zoe, you picked a bad week to take off, but guys, we can handle this ourselves.
01:06:20The story seems to never change.
01:06:21The Keeneland sale is so successful.
01:06:23It's up every year.
01:06:25Some people that know more about this than I do pointed out that book one was so strong
01:06:31that guys who normally don't buy in books two and three were forced to buy in books
01:06:36two and three because of the fact that it was almost impossible to get any kind of horse
01:06:41out of book one if you didn't pay a zillion dollars for it.
01:06:44A matter of fact, of note for book three, Mark Cassie, Bob Baffert, and Chad Brown were
01:06:49still on the grounds buying horses.
01:06:51And in book four, you had a horse selling for $475,000 and $425,000, which is a little
01:06:58bit unusual.
01:07:00As usual, Mike Rapoli leads the way.
01:07:02He bought 25 horses so far.
01:07:05Maybe he'll add another couple more to his roster coming back after that.
01:07:10But that was one of the storylines of the sale, Randy.
01:07:14Yeah, thanks for the pass here.
01:07:16I'm on a lateral to TD.
01:07:19Well, I think one thing, and again, I'll give a similar disclaimer that Bill gave.
01:07:24I don't cover the bloodstock industry as intensely as some of our colleagues at TDN.
01:07:28Bill and I generally handle things on the racing side of the business, but I thought
01:07:32it was an interesting comment from Mark Taylor in the edition of the TDN the other day as
01:07:38book three was concluding.
01:07:40He said there was a little bit of thinness there in terms of horses not quite punching
01:07:45above their reserve, and between book three and book four, of course, is when some different
01:07:49clientele is shifting in.
01:07:51People who come in for books one and two are looking for one type of horse.
01:07:55The later books, you're looking for a different type of horse, and you can expect to pay a
01:07:59different premium for those horses.
01:08:03I guess one thing that I would say as a general comment is, if you're looking at how have
01:08:09the elite books at the Keeneland sale done and how does that translate into the health
01:08:14of the equine marketplace, I think there are some similarities in the overall economy in
01:08:19America right now to the bloodstock economy in the thoroughbred industry.
01:08:24In America right now, way up high, the people who have the money and can afford to spend
01:08:29big money on houses, vehicles, luxury items, they're spending, and they have not stopped
01:08:35spending since the pandemic.
01:08:36However, don't make the mistake of thinking that mirrors what happens farther down in
01:08:41the economy for the broader sector of folks, and I think that's the same in horse racing.
01:08:47So big headlines, big numbers, seven figures in books one and even book two.
01:08:52We'll have to see how the rest of Keeneland plays out before we can get an accurate picture
01:08:56of the overall economy and what the Keeneland yearling sale means to the overall health
01:09:03of the racing marketplace.
01:09:05Yeah, I don't cover bloodstock at all.
01:09:09So thank you guys for educating me a little bit here about Keeneland.
01:09:13One thing I will say to sort of dovetail on TD, I don't think that the sales like Keeneland
01:09:21the very elite, the sales that are in the very stratosphere really have any correlation
01:09:28to the overall health of the racing industry, not just the equine marketplace, but the actual
01:09:36rank and file racing industry.
01:09:39As it shows right now at Keeneland, there is a strong demand for the horses at the very,
01:09:46very top of the market, those potential Kentucky Derby winners and those potential
01:09:50Breeders' Cup winners.
01:09:51And there's no shortage of well-heeled owners that are willing to put up big money for those
01:09:57kind of horses.
01:09:58The real concerns in the racing industry that we talk about on a fairly regular basis are
01:10:05much further down the line when you're talking about individual state bred programs that
01:10:11are really struggling.
01:10:12Field size as a result, that's really gone downhill at a lot of racetracks in America.
01:10:17That's really completely separate from what we're seeing at Keeneland September.
01:10:22Is it great news that the business at Keeneland September is going fantastically?
01:10:26Yes, it's much better than the Keeneland September sale, not doing very well at all.
01:10:31But as far as translating into the health of the racing industry in general on a day
01:10:38to day basis, I don't think there's a lot of correlation there.
01:10:41I'll just throw a few more statistics at you.
01:10:43And this is again through Monday.
01:10:45We're recording this on Tuesday.
01:10:47So far, 61 gunrunners have sold and grossed $32 million by gross.
01:10:55That makes him the leading star so far, but not by average.
01:10:5844 Kerlins have sold, averaging $579,000 right behind him.
01:11:0441 Into Mischiefs averaging $543,000.
01:11:09And the usual suspects came home with all the big horses.
01:11:15O'Lanny, who buys on behalf of the Baffert team of SF Racing, Starlight Racing, and Madiket
01:11:22Racing, bought 18 horses for $11.3 million, averaged $629,000 each.
01:11:30So there's 18 more potential superstars to enter Bob Baffert's barn sometime next year.
01:11:35And Mandy Pope didn't buy a lot of horses, but when she did, she spent big.
01:11:40Her horses, she bought four for an average of $2,050,000.
01:11:46So yes, the sale is healthy as ever, maybe even healthier.
01:11:51And congratulations to Keeneland for a great sale.
01:11:55You mentioned Into Mischief.
01:11:56You got time for a quick story?
01:11:57Interesting story about Into Mischief.
01:11:59You guys might know this.
01:12:00I didn't know it until I spoke to Ned Toffey at Spin Thrift Farm.
01:12:04I think Into Mischief ran something like six times in his career when he was retired to
01:12:09stud at Spin Thrift.
01:12:11They had a devil of a time getting anybody interested to breed to him.
01:12:17And his initial stud fee was $6,500, and they still had trouble getting breeders to breed
01:12:25to him.
01:12:25So B. Wayne Hughes came up with a pretty innovative idea.
01:12:29He said, all right, let's offer a deal.
01:12:31And they've expanded this in later years to some other horses.
01:12:35If you breed to Into Mischief for $6,500, this year is very first year at stud.
01:12:42And next year, another $6,500, and you get a couple of live foals there.
01:12:47From that point on, you have a free pass to breed to Into Mischief the rest of his career
01:12:53for free.
01:12:56Fifteen breeders signed up for the initial $6,500 stud fee.
01:13:02Seven of them dropped out between the first year and the second year.
01:13:07So now there are eight lucky breeders who spent a total of $13,000 in the first two
01:13:13years of Into Mischief that have been able to breed to him for zero ever since.
01:13:19And now Into Mischief is on the verge of winning the champion's stallion race in the United
01:13:27States for, I think, a sixth consecutive year.
01:13:29It's a remarkable story, I think.
01:13:31Yeah, absolutely.
01:13:32I actually didn't know that, Randy.
01:13:33Thank you for bringing it to our attention, going down those rabbit holes.
01:13:37You come up with some very good stuff sometimes.
01:13:40All right, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:13:42I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and T.D.
01:13:45Thornton.
01:13:46Also, Emma Berry, who helped us out with the European segment News You Can Use.
01:13:50Richard Rigney, our guest of the week.
01:13:52And then our editors and producers, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:13:57Thanks, everybody.
01:13:58Where's Lucy?
01:13:59Oh, there she is.
01:14:01Here you go.
01:14:02Lucy.
01:14:03Lucy.
01:14:04She opened her eyes.
01:14:05Okay.
01:14:06That's as much as we're going to get, Bill.
01:14:08All right.
01:14:09And that's time to say goodbye.
01:14:11We'll catch up with you next week on the TDN Writers from Podcast.