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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, and I also do the Down the Stretch
00:00:36radio show on Saturdays with Dave Johnson.
00:00:40I am Randy Moss with NBC Sports and Team Buyer Speed Figure, just fresh off of our telecast
00:00:49of what, eight races in two hours, including the preps that we're going to be talking about
00:00:53right now.
00:00:54I just want to let everybody know Zoe Catman is fine and well.
00:00:58She just had a day off, so Randy and I will be doing this, just the two of us, and hopefully
00:01:04we can fill in for Zoe, because she always has some interesting things to say.
00:01:10All right.
00:01:11Like you said, Randy, you were there in Connecticut watching all the most important races around
00:01:16the country.
00:01:17Unfortunately.
00:01:18Why don't we start with Robert Lewis, because that's the comeback of Citizen Bull, the three-year-old
00:01:22champion.
00:01:24To me, it's funny.
00:01:25He seems to me like a horse that just never gets a lot of respect.
00:01:28He was 15 to 1 in the Breeders' Cup, getting ready when he was coming back for the Robert
00:01:34Lewis.
00:01:35Yeah, sure, people liked him and people were talking about him, but I think people were
00:01:38almost more talking about Rodriguez, who had won the one, only had the one win in his lifetime
00:01:44in the maiden race.
00:01:45I was going back and forth as a handicapper, and I was all like, you know, Rodriguez, he's
00:01:49so fast, this, this.
00:01:50I said, wait a minute.
00:01:52You're taking a horse that just broke his maiden and you think he's going to beat the
00:01:55horse that won the Breeders' Cup juvenile?
00:01:57I talked myself onto the right horse, but I had to do that.
00:02:02But now afterwards, you know, look at his resume.
00:02:05It is fantastic.
00:02:06And I don't think there's a, you know, some people will disagree, but in my mind, there's
00:02:11no doubt he's the number one horse at this point for the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:14Yeah.
00:02:15Well, Andy, you're right.
00:02:16He's not getting enough credit from me either.
00:02:21I mean, Jerry Bailey and I both had a top five Kentucky Derby picks, you know, rankings
00:02:27such as they are, you know, the first of February and even after the Lewis, neither one of us
00:02:34had Citizen Bull in our top five.
00:02:36And I think part of that is that as handicappers, we are always conditioned to downgrade horses
00:02:45who get absolutely perfect trips in their races.
00:02:50And so far, that's been the hallmark of Citizen Bull in the American Pharaoh, then in the
00:02:57Breeders' Cup juvenile.
00:02:58And then of course, in the Robert B. Lewis, they're all very similar trips, clear leads,
00:03:06thanks in large part to the fact that the other possible competing speed in each of
00:03:12those races were horses also trained by Bob Baffert.
00:03:17And who wants to see, you know, a speed duel involving your own horses?
00:03:22So Citizen Bull, who has good early speed, was on an easy early lead, easy pace figures,
00:03:28easy fractions in all of those races uncontested and then draws off to win impressively.
00:03:33Is he a fast horse?
00:03:34He ran a 98 buyer speed figure in the Lewis, the fastest of any of the real prep so far.
00:03:41We're not giving him enough credit.
00:03:42I'm not giving him enough credit.
00:03:44I should have had him in my top five.
00:03:45I will admit that.
00:03:47But that's why he's not getting the credit that he perhaps deserves is that he hasn't
00:03:52shown yet that, you know, he can even stalk and be as effective.
00:03:58Now, a lot of times that's overrated.
00:04:00I'm not comparing him to American Pharaoh, but you saw the same thing and heard the same
00:04:04stuff about American Pharaoh until he went to Arkansas for the Arkansas Derby.
00:04:09And then he sat behind a horse who blasted off early and it was one of his most visually
00:04:14impressive races.
00:04:16So it doesn't mean that Citizen Bull can't be as good if he doesn't make the early lead.
00:04:21We just haven't seen it yet.
00:04:23Some horses aren't, and we haven't seen that yet with Citizen Bull.
00:04:26No, I totally understand where you're coming from here.
00:04:29And one of the things about Lewis, I never expected in a million years that he would
00:04:33get that trip.
00:04:34Now, you talked about the speed in the race.
00:04:36There were the two Baffert horses, him and Rodriguez, that had a lot of early speed.
00:04:42If Rodriguez were trained by John Doe, you would think, OK, he's going to go after Citizen
00:04:46Bull and they're going to get into a speed duel.
00:04:49But with both horses trained by Baffert, they were obviously, you know, had discussions
00:04:53beforehand.
00:04:55But the Wesley Ward horse was the other horse.
00:04:59He didn't get involved in the early pace.
00:05:02And I, well, I pick Citizen Bull.
00:05:05I will give you this.
00:05:06I did not in a million years expect him to get such an easy trip.
00:05:09Matter of fact, I thought one way or another, he'd probably get a difficult trip in there.
00:05:13Yeah, I didn't expect him to get an easy lead either.
00:05:15Wesley Ward had said, I texted with him, you know, plan A was to go to, was to get a clear
00:05:23early lead, right?
00:05:26The owner of that particular horse is based in Dubai for the winter, Jim and Fitri Hay.
00:05:33And the plan was to run, to run the horse in the UAE Derby if he ran well in the Lewis
00:05:39and the object was to go to the lead.
00:05:41And he, you know, not only did he not get a clear lead, he didn't even get a lead, right?
00:05:46He just wasn't fast enough in the transition from turf to dirt.
00:05:51As far as Rodriguez, you know, Jerry and I talked to Bob Baffert before the race.
00:05:56It was pretty clear what the strategy was going to be.
00:05:59And a lot of it had to do with the draw.
00:06:02Citizen bull was drawn just inside of Rodriguez.
00:06:05And so for Rodriguez to make the lead in the rail, he was going to have to really gun and
00:06:09clear citizen bull and then drop over in front of it.
00:06:13Citizen bull is a pretty quick course.
00:06:15I asked Bob point blank, and I think I said this on the air.
00:06:18I said, is there any chance that citizen bull is going to be stalking this time instead
00:06:23of being on the lead?
00:06:24And he laughed and he said, if I have Martine Garcia on the horse, we're not taking back,
00:06:29we're going.
00:06:30And that's exactly what happened in Rodriguez, got a funky trip.
00:06:34I don't know if it was the ride that he got or if it was the horse that was doing it.
00:06:40But you saw like leaving the half mile pole and heading into the second turn, he suddenly
00:06:44dropped back and it looked like he was going to run last.
00:06:48And then he dropped back to about next to last.
00:06:50And suddenly here he comes again.
00:06:51And he makes a nice three to four wide move around the turn, you know, to write, to kind
00:06:55of get up close to citizen bull.
00:06:58And then he just, you know, he didn't have the judge.
00:06:59He still ran pretty well to finish second, but he just didn't have the juice of the juice
00:07:03left after that.
00:07:05If he had made a clear lead on citizen bull, if that had been the strategy or if he had
00:07:10just outbroken citizen bull, you know, maybe he runs back to that 100 buyer speed figure.
00:07:16But in that scenario, I think the difference in the trips had a lot to do with it.
00:07:21So I'm curious, who are your top five then?
00:07:24I had Barnes, number one, East Avenue, number two.
00:07:31And I don't remember who I had.
00:07:33I moved to Burnham Square up to number five.
00:07:35I was very impressed with him who we're going to talk about now.
00:07:39But I, I should have had citizen ball in there because it's my, you know, my bad.
00:07:45Well, it's nice to see you admit your mistakes in there, but we will know more coming up
00:07:51in what he does.
00:07:52San Felipe, San Anita Derby, as a baffler, say whether he's going to the San Felipe or
00:07:56not. I didn't see that.
00:07:57Usually he doesn't give out his plans too far in advance.
00:08:01No, because he sort of flies by the seat of his pants and does a lot by intuition.
00:08:05And he doesn't want to commit to a race and then change his mind and have people say,
00:08:08what happened? Why did you change your mind?
00:08:10In this case, Barnes, he has said, will run either in the San Felipe, which is the 22nd
00:08:18of February or a week later in the rebel on March the 1st, the rebels like three times
00:08:25the purse. It's a one and a quarter million.
00:08:27And with citizen bull, Bob has pointed out that the horse is it carries a lot of weight.
00:08:34He's very heavy.
00:08:35He needs to sort of race himself into fitness, much the same as silver charm.
00:08:40Way back in the day, Bob was saying the same things about silver charm, that he was
00:08:45heavy, that he ate a lot, that he he needed to run.
00:08:48And silver charm ran in the San Felipe or excuse me, the San Vicente and then the San
00:08:52Felipe and then the then the Santa Anita Derby.
00:08:56So maybe that'll be the plan as well with citizen bull, just because he does seem to
00:09:01carry a lot of weight.
00:09:02But they have options.
00:09:03You know, they could they can send citizen bull to Arkansas for the rebel and maybe try
00:09:08to learn a little bit more about him in a bigger field and probably a faster paced race.
00:09:13And they can opt to keep Barnes at home.
00:09:15My guess is that citizen bull will stay put and Barnes will go to Arkansas if for no
00:09:22other reason that Barnes has already shipped.
00:09:25Right. For his career debut, he went to Kentucky at Churchill Downs and handled the
00:09:30ship very well. So at least he's got that in his background.
00:09:33So those would be bafflers.
00:09:34Big two at this point.
00:09:36Let's turn now to the holy bull run at Gulfstream.
00:09:38We're going to hear from Ian Wilkes and the Gangeway guest of the week segment shortly
00:09:43afterwards. I got one right.
00:09:44I picked him in there and I think that this is a horse and this is what we're going to
00:09:49talk with Ian Wilkes.
00:09:51One of the reasons I liked him is I like horses where you can see very obvious
00:09:56improvement from race to race to race to race.
00:09:59Did he need to improve a little bit to win this race?
00:10:02Yes. But knowing Ian Wilkes as a trainer, knowing how well he did in his prior start
00:10:07with Blinkers, which seemed to turn the horse's career around, he looked to me to be
00:10:12the one. The public disagreed.
00:10:15They made Tappan the favorite, which I was a little surprised about that.
00:10:18I thought that, you know, one of those Brad Cox horses cost 50 million dollars in one
00:10:24by 10 lengths. How many of these things does he have?
00:10:26It's unbelievable.
00:10:28By the way, he ran a very good race to be second.
00:10:31But from the Florida contingent right now, we've got, you know, is he a big, huge
00:10:36star? No, but he belongs in your top five and in everybody else's top five and may
00:10:42just get better.
00:10:43And I think that's why there's reasons to be excited about him.
00:10:46And Tappan Street, if he's not in the top five, probably should be number six, because
00:10:51like you said, he ran a heck of a race.
00:10:53It was nine links back to the rest of the field.
00:10:57And there were a couple of other decent horses behind him, Burning Glory, for example,
00:11:01and and obviously Ferocious, who who sort of laid an egg.
00:11:05We can talk about that. But the improvement.
00:11:08I mean, Burnham Square started off in a six for a long race or a sprint at Keeneland,
00:11:13which obviously is not his cup of tea.
00:11:14And he ran. Yeah, so so.
00:11:16And then they ran him long and he sort of ran in spots.
00:11:20And that's why Francisco Arrieta, the jockey at the time, recommended to Ian Wilkes that
00:11:24they put the blinkers on and he was thinking about it anyway.
00:11:27And then suddenly his big breakout made in special weight went by nine links.
00:11:31And if you watch that race, I think we talked about it last week.
00:11:34Very visually impressive.
00:11:37If you just call up the replay and watch that.
00:11:39So no surprise to me that he took the next step, especially since Ferocious was a was
00:11:44a no show to me that that made Burnham Square the worst to beat.
00:11:48Tappan Street is interesting.
00:11:52He's a real grinder.
00:11:53He has no turn of foot.
00:11:56And so he has to be pretty hard ridden all the way to sort of keep his momentum going.
00:12:02Brad Cox predicted that before the race and you saw it during the race.
00:12:07I mean, he was on the engine relay going into the second turn.
00:12:11He was being very aggressively ridden and he kept on and he kept on and he kept on and
00:12:16he covered a little bit more ground on the turns, especially the second turn.
00:12:21Then Burnham Square did.
00:12:23So you can give Tappan Street maybe a little bit of an upgrade there.
00:12:27But to me, that doesn't mean he was the better horse.
00:12:30I think Burnham Burnham Square, my opinion at least, was clearly the better horse on
00:12:36that day.
00:12:36I would agree with you on that.
00:12:38You mentioned Ferocious, who was the horse among this group who had the best resume,
00:12:43most accomplished horse.
00:12:45He only had the three workouts coming into the race, just screamed out this horse is
00:12:49not going to be ready.
00:12:50Now, I don't know how much that contributed to his kind of a blah performance.
00:12:55Or he also looks to me like a horse that has not progressed, has peaked early in his two
00:13:02year old year and has not gotten any better.
00:13:04His best lifetime buyer number is when he broke his maiden at Saratoga and he has never
00:13:10run faster than that.
00:13:11Ninety three cents.
00:13:13I love the connections they brought.
00:13:14They're good people.
00:13:15They won the derby with Mage.
00:13:17They love the game and they're good for the game.
00:13:20But I think they have I don't think their horse is going in the right direction.
00:13:23Randy, I got to admit, even knowing that the horse that they said the horse wasn't going
00:13:28to be 100 percent and knowing that he'd had only those three breezes, I was still
00:13:33disappointed. I mean, they put the blinkers on him because in almost every one of his
00:13:38races, in every one of them actually going in, he had made mistakes that had something
00:13:44to do with immaturity.
00:13:45Right. He either didn't break sharply or he got a little squirrely around other horses
00:13:51and things like that. So they put the blinkers on.
00:13:54And honestly, Bill, I saw the same thing.
00:13:57He didn't break that aggressively.
00:13:59OK, he tried to run up in between horses and then kind of got shuffled back a little
00:14:05bit. And then he started climbing for a second when dirt hit him.
00:14:09And then they steered him to the outside and he makes a big run.
00:14:12And just, you know, and he came up short.
00:14:15But I think he was still making mistakes and with the blinkers.
00:14:19And that bothers me.
00:14:21One thing we seem to see every time at this year is a Todd Pletcher horse a little bit
00:14:27late to come to the party, but wins very impressively.
00:14:30And everybody's, wow, how good is River Thames?
00:14:34He went out in his second career start and did it again.
00:14:37Ran him in a one mile allowance race, won for fun, got a ninety four buyer.
00:14:42Expect he would probably be in the fountain of youth next.
00:14:45I was a little bit surprised he didn't run him in the swale stakes, but I guess that
00:14:48Todd wanted to get that extra furlong into him.
00:14:52It's the same sort of dilemma we talked about before.
00:14:55You know, lightly raced horse, just blown the doors off his competition.
00:14:59How is he going to do when he runs against the Burnham Squares and the big boys of the
00:15:04world? He belongs in the mix, I'll say that much.
00:15:08You know, he's got a good, good trainer behind the best there is.
00:15:13And Todd knows how to bring these horses along, but he's got a lot of catching up to
00:15:18do. There's that.
00:15:20And also, I think what concerns me the most, Bill, about him going forward as a Derby
00:15:26contender is pedigree.
00:15:29He is a good pedigree.
00:15:31I just don't know if he has a distance pedigree.
00:15:34He's a son of McLean's music, who is best known, of course, for making one lifetime
00:15:39start and for Steve Asmussen and Stone Street and getting a buyer speed figure of one
00:15:44fourteen in that one win, the highest we've ever given to a first time starter.
00:15:50But McLean's music was by distorted humor.
00:15:56Out of a stakes winning, multiple stakes winning sprinting dam, and so far, if
00:16:03you look at McLean's music's offspring and he's been a pretty good stallion, they have
00:16:08tended more often than not to be much better around one turn.
00:16:12You had Jackie's warrior.
00:16:14You have complexity trained by Chad Brown, who was very much better around one turn.
00:16:21Drain the clock.
00:16:22Very good sprinter.
00:16:24The one, you know, one that stands out that that handled distance to a certain extent
00:16:31by by McLean's music was Preakness Winter Cloud Computing.
00:16:37Now, Preakness Winter Cloud Computing was you had McLean's music bred to a distance
00:16:43running stakes mayor by AP Indy.
00:16:47So you had a lot of stamina in the bottom half of that pedigree.
00:16:50And I think Chad Brown would even tell you now that even though McLean's even though
00:16:54Cloud Computing won the Preakness, he probably was better around one turn.
00:17:00OK, now, in the case of this horse, right, in the case of Pletcher's newest here, he's
00:17:08by McLean's music.
00:17:09But his damn proportionality was a sprinter.
00:17:15Twenty two starts.
00:17:16Every single start was either was five, five and a half, six or six and a half furlongs.
00:17:22Proportionality is three wins were at five, five and a half and six off the board in
00:17:27three tries at six and a half furlongs.
00:17:30So River Thames is really bred to be a sprinter, not a two turn horse.
00:17:36And that's going to be the big question I have going forward.
00:17:39All right. Maybe we'll see him in the Pat Day mile.
00:17:41And how about that?
00:17:42All right. Let's go to Aqualink where they had the withers.
00:17:46The winner, Captain Cook, got a ninety four buyer based on that.
00:17:51He obviously deserves some respect.
00:17:53But, you know, I'm going to look at this race and I'm just going to say I don't care if
00:17:56we got a two hundred and four buyer.
00:17:59He just didn't beat anybody.
00:18:00Horses, top horses do not come out of the wither stakes.
00:18:04Scott Dutrow is the trainer that and he's two for two since they made the switch from
00:18:09Norm Cassie. They bought the horse at a sale, made the switch from Norm Cassie to
00:18:13Dutrow. But the horse he beat finished second, Surfside Moon was thirty three to one.
00:18:18You know, he deserves another chance to prove himself.
00:18:21He looks like he's going to go next in the Wood Memorial, another race that hasn't
00:18:24produced a Kentucky Derby winner since 1742.
00:18:28So, you know, I just don't know.
00:18:31No, he doesn't make money.
00:18:32You didn't put you didn't put Citizen Bull in your top five.
00:18:36I'm not putting Captain Cook in my top 20.
00:18:38Sorry. OK, so he probably didn't run against much.
00:18:41I mean, it's hard to tell this early, but at least so far, based on accomplishments and
00:18:46past performances, the field wasn't that tough.
00:18:49But hey, babe, you look pretty good.
00:18:52He looked he looked pretty good visually and he ran a pretty good number.
00:18:55I'm not going to put him in my top five either.
00:18:57But it's going to be nice, I think, if this continues to have to have Rick Dutrow back
00:19:02in the in the Kentucky Derby mix.
00:19:05He will make things interesting, that's for sure.
00:19:08The TDN Riders room was brought to you by Keeneland.
00:19:11It was a big weekend for the Keeneland September sale.
00:19:13Copian got the party started on Saturday when she drew away from the field to win the
00:19:17grade to Santa Monica.
00:19:19Two-year-old champion Citizen Bull was next with a commanding win in the grade three
00:19:23Robert B. Lewis stakes.
00:19:24And Tenma wrapped up the weekend with an easy win in the grade three Las Virgenes
00:19:28stakes. The 2025 Keeneland September sale begins Monday, September 8th.
00:19:33The entry deadline is May 1.
00:19:35And we'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:19:38Still catching, Leslie's Rose, Sierra, Leon, Mike, five million dollars, thank you.
00:19:54Carl Spackler, a mercy.
00:19:57She feels pretty tough.
00:20:08Time now for the fastest horse of the week brought to you this week by Nashville, one
00:20:14of the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:20:17Why Nashville this week?
00:20:19Well, last week, mega owner Jon Stewart held a live stream to announce the mating plans
00:20:25for his mares, and he revealed that two of those mares would be going to Nashville.
00:20:30And why not? Nashville's a Keeneland track record setter.
00:20:34He ran six furlongs in 107.89, and he was booked full in his first two years at stud
00:20:39with 368 mares bred at Windstar.
00:20:44They like to say he's so fast he's Nashville hot like chicken.
00:20:49Get it? Now, the fastest horse of the week, Copion in the Santa Monica.
00:20:54Copion, of course, was coming off a win in the La Brea against an all-star field.
00:21:00She was 37 to one that day in the La Brea and ran a buyer speed figure of 97.
00:21:06Well, this past Saturday in the Santa Monica, Bob Baffert attacked her with three different
00:21:11entrants, and one of his Hope Road ran a heck of a race on the lead.
00:21:14And what did Copion do?
00:21:16Stalked Hope Road and left her behind to a clear victory.
00:21:22Get ready for this.
00:21:22And a buyer speed figure of 110.
00:21:26Amazingly fast race for Copion in the Santa Monica.
00:21:30And she is our fastest horse of the week.
00:21:37And the Gainesway guest of the week this week is Ian Wilkes.
00:21:40No surprise to have him on this week's show after he won the Holy Bull stakes with
00:21:45Burnham Square in a very impressive effort down at Gulfstream Park last Saturday and
00:21:49now is very much in the thick of things with this horse for the Kentucky Derby.
00:21:53And welcome, Ian.
00:21:54First question, this horse started off his career with a 58 buyer first time out.
00:22:00He improves a little bit, improves a little bit, improves a little bit, improves some
00:22:05more to win the Holy Bull.
00:22:06Is that your style that you're not going to be somebody who's going to have these
00:22:10horses roaring out of the starting gate and you'd rather take your time with them?
00:22:15Definitely. You know, I'm all about developing horses.
00:22:18You know, love to develop horses, learn it from Kyle Naska, you know, because to make
00:22:24money in this game, it's you've got to build asset value, you know, in the horses.
00:22:28And so you just let them come along at their pace.
00:22:31Some come along quicker, some are more precocious, some aren't.
00:22:36So when you look at his past performances, Ian, and you and I talked about this prior
00:22:40to the Holy Bull, the big breakout race was his nine length maiden win in his race
00:22:48before the Holy Bull, and it's not a coincidence that that was the first race in
00:22:52which you added the blinkers.
00:22:55Can you tell our viewers and listeners exactly what went into that decision to put
00:22:59those blinkers on?
00:23:01Well, if you watch his first two races, the replays, you know, the first one was Six
00:23:06Furlongs, I think, you know, at Keeneland, and he just wouldn't run into the race.
00:23:12He kept climbing, running away from horses, and then he finished up and ran second, ran
00:23:18a good race, and then we put him back in a maiden special eight, and then he come back
00:23:22and did the same thing again.
00:23:25I give him the benefit of the doubt that second race, you know, I thought, you know,
00:23:28he's got that race under his belt, he'd learn.
00:23:31But Francisco Arrieta rode him, and he said, you know, he got to the half mile,
00:23:36he said, I couldn't get him going.
00:23:38He's running away from horses.
00:23:40He wasn't focused on what he was doing.
00:23:42Then all of a sudden, he just ran down the lane, got beat three quarters.
00:23:45And then if you watch after the race, he's four in front after 50 yards.
00:23:48You know, he just never got focused on what he was doing.
00:23:53So I had to help him a little.
00:23:56Ian, you said after the race, while you were obviously delighted that he won, said there's
00:24:01still some things to work on.
00:24:02And in particular, you touched on two subjects.
00:24:06You weren't real happy they got a little bit hot before the race, and also the way he broke.
00:24:11Let's start with the second one first, because a lot of people are talking about that.
00:24:16Not that he broke terrible, but he just sort of hesitated a bit, kind of went to the outside
00:24:20a little bit.
00:24:21Was that still some immaturity that you have to work on?
00:24:24And what did you think of the way he started the race?
00:24:27I think the way he broke, he was on the outside, but the way he broke was the way he got hot
00:24:35in the post-parade.
00:24:36You know, he just wasn't 100% focused on what he was doing, you know, and, you know, a little
00:24:42immaturity, you know, I think it was a lot to do with that, is the way he broke, is how
00:24:49he hot he got.
00:24:50He just wasn't real focused on what he was doing.
00:24:52So what I mean, I'll have to school him.
00:24:56I want to school him in the paddock before I run him again.
00:25:01So nowadays, Ian, so many trainers have the philosophy of less is more when it comes to
00:25:06plotting out racing schedules, and they might not want to run in the Holy Bull, and then
00:25:12the Fountain of Youth, and then the Florida Derby, but other trainers think that racing
00:25:16actually is an advantage to some horses.
00:25:20What about Burnham Square?
00:25:21What are you thinking about his upcoming schedule and why?
00:25:25Well right now, I'm thinking of running him in the Fountain of Youth.
00:25:28I'm planning on the Fountain of Youth, and most likely, the Kentucky Derby, because he
00:25:33likes his track.
00:25:34Why am I going to, you know, ship him somewhere?
00:25:36You know, he's running good on this track.
00:25:39Let's not change anything just yet, and then, you know, to run him back, and it's four weeks
00:25:43spacing, then another four weeks to the Florida Derby.
00:25:48You know, you can get into, I might try and show you how bad I can really train if I wait
00:25:54eight weeks, you know.
00:25:55So we've got to, you know, you're in a rhythm, stay in a rhythm with him.
00:26:01And speaking of that, and getting back to the theme that we started with, how he's been
00:26:05improving with each race, and how you think there are some things that you need to fix.
00:26:10A horse should not be, we know a horse is not going to run the best race of his life
00:26:15in January or February as a three-year-old.
00:26:18It takes time to really develop, but do you see a lot more development and improvement
00:26:23in this horse?
00:26:24Again, for the reasons we've been talking about, you've been taking your time, and that
00:26:27he has shown some of these issues that we talked about, like getting hot before the
00:26:32race.
00:26:33If he's running in a 94 buyer, I don't know if that's right, I was just, I wrote my buyer
00:26:37list down.
00:26:38I think I got it wrong on this one.
00:26:39But Randy, what was his buyer?
00:26:41No, officially 90, but he's probably a better effort than that visually.
00:26:45All right.
00:26:47Can you get him to the 102 buyer that it might take to win the Kentucky Derby, and how are
00:26:52you going to do that?
00:26:53Well, it's each race, it's development.
00:26:58Do I want him, did I want to see him run 102 on Saturday?
00:27:02No, because then where do I go from there?
00:27:05How do I keep improving if I top him out right there?
00:27:09Each race, I want him to get better, I want him to, because the water gets deeper.
00:27:14He has to learn how to run against these horses too.
00:27:18These are some good horses, and he's just a, if you look at him, he doesn't win any
00:27:23beauty contests.
00:27:24He's a plain little horse, but he just keeps running.
00:27:29You got to love him, but you've got to let him do it.
00:27:33I don't want him to run that 100 yet, I want him to run that 100 in the Kentucky Derby.
00:27:39So who was it you were telling me that saddled the horse for you in the maiden race, in the
00:27:44comment that he made to you on the phone?
00:27:47Tell us about that.
00:27:48Lynchie, yeah, yeah, Brian Lynch, yeah.
00:27:53My flight was delayed, I didn't quite make it.
00:27:55I was supposed to be there on time, and I got delayed, and he saddled him for me.
00:27:59He said, boy, he's not much to look at, but he can run.
00:28:06So one reason why you might be able to project the improvement for the horse going down the
00:28:12road is distance, mile and an eighth Florida Derby, mile and a quarter Kentucky Derby.
00:28:17You've pointed out that the real strength of this horse is his stamina.
00:28:22Tell us about that.
00:28:23Oh, definitely.
00:28:24I've just never seen him get tired.
00:28:28Whatever I do with him, he always gallops out good.
00:28:31He gets better as I go.
00:28:33The thing is, what I've got to find out is, I think he's fast enough.
00:28:37I've got to find out is, stamina isn't going to beat him.
00:28:41That's not going to beat him.
00:28:42I've got to find out if he's better than all these other horses.
00:28:47You look at the Citizen Bull that won.
00:28:49He's very impressive.
00:28:51Can we beat him?
00:28:52Are we as good as him?
00:28:53That's what I've got to find out.
00:28:55Ian, let's go back to your professional relationship with Karl Nasker.
00:29:00Obviously, you were around him when he had some very, very good horses.
00:29:05Do you talk to him?
00:29:06Do you check in with him from time to time?
00:29:09Hey, do you see anything wrong, any suggestions, anything you think I should be doing differently?
00:29:14What's your relationship with Karl these days?
00:29:17I talk to him every day, actually, while my wife, Tracy, is down here in Florida.
00:29:22We stay with him.
00:29:23He comes to the races.
00:29:24He was there Saturday.
00:29:25He comes out.
00:29:26I talk to him after every race.
00:29:30We run a race.
00:29:31We're still partners.
00:29:32Karl and I are still partners in the business, which is great.
00:29:36If I can keep him around as a partner, it's the greatest thing for racing because you've
00:29:42seen his legacy.
00:29:45He tells me, this is what he tells me, that he's the best Monday morning quarterback.
00:29:51How are you still partners in the business, Ian?
00:29:56Tell us how that works.
00:29:57Well, I come in as a partner with him early on.
00:30:04He was training.
00:30:05I was a partner with him.
00:30:07As he stepped back and I took over, I've kept him on as a partner, so we're just still partners
00:30:14in the business, in Trades LLC.
00:30:16Okay.
00:30:17Well, everybody knew from day one that you and Karl were co-trainers in the business,
00:30:25especially with Unbridled.
00:30:28Unbridled, when you talk about horses that improve, he ran the race of his life in the
00:30:33Kentucky Derby.
00:30:34To that point, it was the race of his life.
00:30:37What do you remember about the progression and the improvement that Unbridled showed?
00:30:42Could that correlate a little bit to Burnham Square?
00:30:45Oh, definitely.
00:30:47He took a lot of racing to get to that spot.
00:30:50We ran him.
00:30:51I can't remember exactly how many times as a two-year-old, but he ran quite a few.
00:30:55We went through the Florida serious with him.
00:30:58Then we ran him back in the, I know he ran in the Fountain of Youth and the Florida Derby
00:31:05and the Bluegrass.
00:31:06In the Bluegrass.
00:31:07Yeah.
00:31:08Yeah.
00:31:09I don't know if there was one in between there, between the Florida serious and that.
00:31:17Well, you're testing my memory on that one, but yeah.
00:31:21The idea was just the racing for him to get better, learn, because the race you don't
00:31:27want to make mistakes in is the Kentucky Derby.
00:31:30You can't make a mistake and win it.
00:31:33What I remember about that, Ian, is being at Churchill Downs, 1990, and Summer Squall
00:31:37was all the rage.
00:31:38Everyone was talking about Summer Squall, and yet a lot of people were saying, man,
00:31:43you should see Unbridled.
00:31:45Just watch him train.
00:31:46He is really blossoming in the, whatever it was, nine days from the Bluegrass back then.
00:31:53What do you remember about that, about the way the horse was training at Churchill Downs?
00:31:58Very good, because I galloped him going into that race, and he just was getting better
00:32:04every day, getting over that track.
00:32:07That was the good thing about it.
00:32:11Even leading up to the race, the day before, he felt good, and then the morning of the
00:32:16race, we took him out and gave him a light gallop.
00:32:20No way they could beat him.
00:32:22He was on cloud nine.
00:32:24You were that confident going into the Derby?
00:32:27I was, actually.
00:32:28It's surprising, yeah, just the way the horse was doing.
00:32:31I guess I was young, and I was naive.
00:32:33I just thought I could beat him.
00:32:35You were right.
00:32:36Ian, you're not American.
00:32:39You're from Australia.
00:32:40You've only run in the Kentucky Derby once before, 2017 with McCracken, but do you still
00:32:45have that same feel of Derby fever that most of your colleagues seem to have around this
00:32:51time of year?
00:32:52Well, it's a ... I was actually, I played golf with Lynchie yesterday, and I was just
00:32:59telling him, I said, you win a Derby prep, the hype around it is unbelievable.
00:33:04You can win with an older horse, win a grade two or grade three, okay, you won, but the
00:33:12Derby hype is next to none.
00:33:16It's unbelievable, the hype around this race.
00:33:19One more question for me.
00:33:21The last time you were around the hype was with McCracken, who started his career on
00:33:28a win streak, right?
00:33:29He broke his mate, and then he won the Street Sense, then he won the Kentucky Jockey Club,
00:33:32then he won the Sam Davis, wound up third in the Bluegrass, eighth in the Kentucky Derby,
00:33:37but the owners of McCracken, Janice and Clay Whittam, the same owners of Burnham Square.
00:33:43How special is that?
00:33:44Your relationship with the Whittams, and as far back as you go with them?
00:33:48Oh, tremendous.
00:33:51The loyalty.
00:33:52They come into the barn in 2004, and two years before I took over from Carl, and they had
00:33:59no hesitation staying on with me, and we stayed on, and it's been a great relationship, 20
00:34:06years, and I'm 21 this year.
00:34:10Just the loyalty, and the breeding program, everything with the family, and the horses.
00:34:17You can't explain it.
00:34:20Does Janice still follow things really closely?
00:34:22Oh, yeah.
00:34:23Mm-hmm.
00:34:24Yeah.
00:34:25I talk to her every week.
00:34:26If I fail to call, I get in trouble.
00:34:30Very good.
00:34:32Well, Ian, thanks so much for joining us today on the TDN Writers Room as a Gainesway Guest
00:34:37of the Week.
00:34:38Congratulations on a big win, and we look forward to seeing him in the Fountain of Youth
00:34:42and to continue to progress as you go from step to step to the Kentucky Derby.
00:34:47Thanks once again for joining us.
00:34:48Good luck, Ian.
00:34:49Thanks, guys.
00:34:50Thanks, Ian.
00:34:51Again, our Guest of the Week, Ian Wilkes, brought to you by Gainesway.
00:34:55We were just talking about Jon Stewart's mating plans.
00:34:58We'll be talking more about those.
00:35:00He's planning to send five mares to seize the grave for the Preakness Winners' first
00:35:04season at stud, including his champion, Goodnight Olive.
00:35:08Who else is going to seize the grave from the Stewart clan?
00:35:11Lady Puyat, the dam of champion two-year-old filly, Jaywalk, quickest, the dam of grade
00:35:16one winner, Callback, and Reach for the Heavens, the dam of grade one winner, Real Solution.
00:35:22Seize the grave, the highest-earning son of Arrogate in his racing career, banking over
00:35:27or almost $2.5 million.
00:35:30Seize the grave stands at Gainesway for $30,000.
00:35:34Gainesway.
00:35:35Power.
00:35:36Passion.
00:35:37Performance.
00:35:38Here comes that big, great Tappit Trice right down the outside.
00:35:39Tappit Trice wins the toy on the bluegrass.
00:35:40Tappit Trice's 2024 debut was awesome.
00:35:41Tappit Trice is lunging.
00:35:42Tappit Trice wins the Woodward.
00:35:43Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:44Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:45Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:46Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:47Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:48Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:49Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:50Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:51Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:52Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:53Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:54Tappit Trice is the winner.
00:35:55Just when you thought you got away without listening or seeing me, here's this week's
00:36:15edition of First Things First.
00:36:17I did catch up with jockey Martin Garcia, who is a perfect four for four aboard the
00:36:22Eclipse winner, Citizen Bull.
00:36:25Joined by Martin Garcia.
00:36:28What's the key to this horse, Martini?
00:36:32You're four for four on him.
00:36:35You know what?
00:36:37He's really, he's a really nice horse.
00:36:40And of course, now that he's turned three, he's more mature and more professional.
00:36:46Right.
00:36:47I mean, he's just a good horse.
00:36:51He's just what?
00:36:52I say he's just a good horse.
00:36:54He does everything right.
00:36:56And then, like I say, the way that he's getting more mature, he's learning more.
00:37:01And he really, now he's trying to be like who he's going to be.
00:37:06Super star horse.
00:37:07It seems like he's pushed back.
00:37:09Yeah, it is.
00:37:10I don't know if you see, like, he was really kind.
00:37:13Like, he was really in the muscle, warming up.
00:37:16And when I went into the gate, he was really, he was ready.
00:37:20And then when he broke, the ground broke underneath.
00:37:24Oh, he bubbled, yeah.
00:37:25He did.
00:37:26And then, but he recovered, like, instantly.
00:37:28When that happens, he recovers right away.
00:37:30And then I didn't, like, move my hands.
00:37:32He just took me right away to the lead.
00:37:34And I just waited.
00:37:35And when it was time to go, I just asked him.
00:37:37And he just kick in.
00:37:38And then he was just looking around too much.
00:37:40Like, I still have plenty horse.
00:37:42What did Bob say?
00:37:44Well, he just say that thank you to keep the colors clean
00:37:49and not fall down.
00:37:51Well done, Martin.
00:37:52It's good to have you here.
00:38:02Many thanks to Martin.
00:38:03And yes, he's very, very good at keeping those colors clean.
00:38:08All right, I do want to remind you that racing does continue
00:38:10at Santa Anita Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
00:38:14And the Classic Meat will heat up.
00:38:16With Randy and Bill, you'll like this.
00:38:18The 7th Annual Santa Anita Chili Cook-Off.
00:38:22These are the best chili cookers in all of Southern California.
00:38:26Go to santanita.com for more information.
00:38:29It's a day you do not want to miss.
00:38:32Well, there was a familiar theme last week
00:38:34in the stakes races in California.
00:38:36Three of the biggest ones, the Robert Lewis
00:38:39five horses, three trained by Bob Baffert.
00:38:42The Santa Monica, four horses, three trained by Bob Baffert.
00:38:46Los Las Virginas, three horses, two of them trained by Bob Baffert.
00:38:51This is, again, something we've been talking about a lot.
00:38:53It's one of those thorny issues where there's no clear answers.
00:38:57But obviously, Randy, it's not good for horse racing
00:38:59to have one person in one racing jurisdiction so dominant.
00:39:05And, you know, you can run a mile and eighth on the turf.
00:39:08You'll get 10, 11 horses.
00:39:10But if you run a dirt race for two-year-olds in the fall,
00:39:14for three-year-olds this time of year,
00:39:16and even now when getting into the Philly division
00:39:18with the Las Virginas and the older Philly division,
00:39:21the Santa Monica, it's one guy and everybody else.
00:39:24It makes, for one thing, very bad betting races.
00:39:27And right now, Santa Anita, that's the last thing they need.
00:39:29They need to bring in Handel to hope to push their position
00:39:33as they try to stay afloat.
00:39:36Yeah, I don't know what the answer is, Bill.
00:39:39You know, I mean, you've got a scenario here
00:39:43where you've got a trainer in Bob Baffert
00:39:46who is, I think statistically, I think it's undeniable
00:39:50that he is the greatest trainer of three-year-olds
00:39:55in the history of the sport, right?
00:39:57Even more so than Ben Jones and Jimmy Jones back in the day.
00:40:01And so now you've got this group, the Avengers,
00:40:04that have a strategy of buying up as many, you know,
00:40:08six, seven, $800,000 yearlings as they can,
00:40:11like a couple dozen,
00:40:14and giving almost all of them to Baffert to train.
00:40:17So he's kind of cornered the market to a certain extent
00:40:21on those very well-bred, expensive yearlings.
00:40:25And obviously, he trains them impeccably well.
00:40:28And other trainers have told us, have told me,
00:40:33that sometimes they feel like they're beating their heads
00:40:36against the wall trying to compete
00:40:38against Baffert's horses, right?
00:40:40I mean, one trainer who was running a two-year-old last year,
00:40:44I won't mention his name,
00:40:46in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf, right,
00:40:49had a horse that was bred for the dirt.
00:40:51And I said, why did you start him off on turf?
00:40:54Why has he been running on grass?
00:40:55And he said, because I can't beat Baffert.
00:40:57Why run against Bob Baffert when I can run on grass
00:41:00where Baffert doesn't have a high visibility?
00:41:02And I've got a much better chance at winning races
00:41:04and getting to the Breeders' Cup.
00:41:06And I think maybe also,
00:41:08because of the powerhouse nature of Bob's stable,
00:41:11maybe a lot of other owners are maybe reluctant
00:41:16to ship their best two-year-olds to California
00:41:19to run against Bob when they can keep them on the East Coast
00:41:23where you don't have quite that same dynamic going on.
00:41:26And we've talked a lot about the rise of the super trainer.
00:41:32And about how that can be detrimental to the sport
00:41:35when it comes to filling races and stuff like that.
00:41:38But the irony here is, Bill, that when it comes to numbers,
00:41:42Bob Baffert is not one of those super trainers
00:41:46that we always talk about.
00:41:47I went back and did the stats.
00:41:49And for example, over the last three years,
00:41:53Steve Asmussen, who trains horses
00:41:56at three to four different locations at a time,
00:41:59has averaged starting 600 different horses each year.
00:42:05600.
00:42:06Mike Maker, 365.
00:42:09Mark Cassie, 358.
00:42:11Brad Cox and Chad Brown, right around 330.
00:42:15Todd Pletcher, right around 330.
00:42:17Bob Baffert, the last three years,
00:42:20has started 115, 115, and 115 different horses.
00:42:27That's 80% fewer than Asmussen
00:42:30and 64% to 68% fewer than all those other trainers that I named.
00:42:36So numbers wise,
00:42:39he's not technically what you would call a super trainer.
00:42:42There's plenty enough room out there for other horsemen,
00:42:46but he just dominates the two-year-olds
00:42:49and the three-year-olds division so much
00:42:51that I think it kind of suppresses the competition.
00:42:54He doesn't want to have to run his horses against each other
00:42:57as often as he does,
00:42:59but he has to to get these races to fill.
00:43:03Yeah, and Randy, I think another issue
00:43:05is the purse structure at Santa Anita.
00:43:07If you are an owner and you have a good horse
00:43:10or you buy a good horse and Baffert is not your trainer,
00:43:13your trainer could be, you use Brad Cox,
00:43:16you use Todd Pletcher, someone like that.
00:43:19Why would you send a horse to California
00:43:22to be trained by a very good trainer,
00:43:24say like Mike McCarthy,
00:43:26when they've got to compete against Baffert in a $250,000 race?
00:43:31Or you could give that horse to Brad Cox
00:43:33where the derby preps at Oakland Park are all a million dollars.
00:43:36So not only do you,
00:43:38if you stay away from running against Baffert in his home turf,
00:43:43not only do you probably increase your chances of winning
00:43:46by racing at the fairgrounds, Oakland Park,
00:43:49Gulfstream, but particularly Oakland Park,
00:43:52the purses are so much better there.
00:43:54From an economic standpoint,
00:43:56it makes a lot more sense to stay away from him.
00:43:59And you're right.
00:44:00You know, he does not have the 600 horses
00:44:03like Steve Asmussen have, but I bet you have those 115.
00:44:07Half of them are at least a very good allowance,
00:44:10if not great at stakes horses.
00:44:12But I just went to the sales.
00:44:14I bought a horse for $200,000.
00:44:16What am I going to do with him?
00:44:17I have no relationship with Baffert.
00:44:19I'm certainly not sending him to train her ex to run in California
00:44:22so I can get my brains beaten in,
00:44:24just like your guy in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf said,
00:44:27get my brains beaten into this guy.
00:44:29Not only get my brains beaten in, but what was the Robert Lewis?
00:44:32I should have written this down.
00:44:33Probably $200,000 or something like that.
00:44:35If you have that in front of you.
00:44:37I mean, especially at Oakland,
00:44:39the preps for the preps at Oakland are a million dollars now.
00:44:42Well, you mentioned Michael McCarthy,
00:44:44who is really on a roll right now,
00:44:46is one of the hottest trainers in California, not named Bob Baffert.
00:44:50Michael McCarthy is a very promising three-year-old named Bullard,
00:44:55who was knocking heads against Baffert.
00:44:58And so what's Michael McCarthy doing?
00:45:00He's running Bullard in the Rebel at Oaklawn Park in his next start,
00:45:04instead of running against Citizen Bull or Barnes
00:45:07or wherever else he might have to run against in the San Felipe.
00:45:11He's going for the $1,250,000 Rebel stakes in Arkansas.
00:45:15And he's not going to get away from Baffert probably.
00:45:18Bob's going to have another horse shipping in.
00:45:20But that's, you know, that's kind of part of that same dynamic.
00:45:24Go to the Rebel and for more money, as you mentioned,
00:45:27and escape at least some of the Baffert clan.
00:45:31Yeah, it's interesting what you said.
00:45:33And I want to be clear on this.
00:45:35In no way is this Bob Baffert's fault.
00:45:37And in no way really is it even Santa Anita's fault.
00:45:40It's just a situation where, you know, he's like the Los Angeles Dodgers now.
00:45:45They sign every single good player that comes out.
00:45:49You know, they get all these Japanese superstars.
00:45:52You know, they build up a team where you look on paper,
00:45:54they should lose three games a season.
00:45:56That, of course, doesn't happen.
00:45:58But you can't blame his owners.
00:46:00They go for the guy who's the most successful.
00:46:03You can't blame Baffert.
00:46:04What's he going to tell loaners?
00:46:05No, I don't want your horse that you just paid a million and a half dollars for
00:46:08because I don't want to have all five horses in the San Felipe.
00:46:11No.
00:46:12So it is just one of those things, but with no real solution.
00:46:15But, you know, it's one of those things we wish we could fix because I will say this much.
00:46:20It's not good for horse racing.
00:46:23The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:46:26We talk about how it's possible that in the model of Justify,
00:46:30a horse who just made his first start on February 18th of his three-year-old year,
00:46:34that we haven't even seen this year's Kentucky Derby winner yet.
00:46:37But could this be him?
00:46:39This week's XBTV Work of the Week is the still-unnamed colt by Curlin out of Beholder,
00:46:44who sold for $4 million to Amr Zidan at the Fasig-Tipton August Sale as a yearling.
00:46:49Who trains him?
00:46:50That's a silly question.
00:46:51Of course, it's Bob Baffert.
00:46:52On Saturday at Santa Anita, the colt drilled four furlongs in 48.80 seconds.
00:46:57It was his ninth work since December 8th.
00:47:00Don't get too excited.
00:47:01Bob Baffert says that he's in no rush.
00:47:03He's going to take his time with this one.
00:47:05And that's your future derby winner.
00:47:06We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
00:47:35That's smart with XBTV.
00:47:40With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
00:47:45there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:47:52Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,
00:47:55as is average purse per race outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:48:01Kentucky Breds.
00:48:02Breed them.
00:48:03Raise them.
00:48:04Race them.
00:48:06We all win.
00:48:10Well, who was picking up points on the road to the Kentucky Derby?
00:48:13Kentucky Breds, that's who.
00:48:15Kentucky Breds swept this weekend's Derby Preps.
00:48:17First champion two-year-old Citizen Bull drew away in the Grade 3 Robert B. Lewis in his 2025 debut.
00:48:24Then Burnham Square ran him down in the Grade 3 Holy Bull.
00:48:27Captain Cook held on to win the Withers Stakes.
00:48:30And Gate to Wire was all alone at the finish of the Swale Stakes for another win for the Kentucky Breds.
00:48:35And also in a very fast number.
00:48:38So I think we can see Gate to Wire coming up pretty soon in one of these Kentucky Derby Preps for Bletcher as well.
00:48:44Well, Jon Stewart of Resolute Racing is always in the news, and he likes to do things a little bit differently.
00:48:50Not only did he announce his mating plans this week,
00:48:54but he live broadcasted or simulcasted throughout the country to let everyone know who he is breeding.
00:49:00All these fabulous mares he's bought to what stallions.
00:49:03Some surprises, some not surprises.
00:49:05We learned earlier that Goodnight Olive is going to be bred to Seize the Gray.
00:49:10But the big story on this was who would he breed Puka to?
00:49:13Now, Puka, of course, is the dam of both Mage and Doorknock.
00:49:17So in two straight years has had winners in Triple Crown races.
00:49:21And Stewart came in and bought her at one of the November sales.
00:49:25He doesn't go by the book, that's for sure.
00:49:28Who's he going to breed this horse to?
00:49:30Well, it's going to be Frankel.
00:49:31Wait a minute.
00:49:32And then he's going to breed again to Frankel.
00:49:34Wait a minute, what's going on here?
00:49:35OK, let's explain.
00:49:36He is going to breed to Frankel on Southern Hemisphere time,
00:49:40then come back and breed again to Frankel on Northern Hemisphere time.
00:49:44And this man is nothing if not confident.
00:49:48He said, in the Northern Hemisphere, he didn't say maybe or if or will run well.
00:49:53We will win the Kentucky Derby with the younger one.
00:49:56And in the Southern Hemisphere, we will win the Melbourne Cup.
00:50:00He says, how can I do it?
00:50:01I bought her and you all didn't.
00:50:04That sounds like Jon Stewart, doesn't it?
00:50:07We've met him on the podcast before.
00:50:10He's buying everything in sight somehow and extremely confident about it.
00:50:15And, you know, I mean, you'd have to think we're just now beginning to –
00:50:18we're at the tip of the iceberg with the impact of Resolute Racing on the racetrack already.
00:50:24A lot of impact, obviously, in the sales arena.
00:50:27And he also has famously said, I don't bid, I buy.
00:50:31I don't know how much money that's cost him now over the last couple of years.
00:50:36He's bred to Frankel before.
00:50:39He bought, of course, the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint winner Caravelle,
00:50:44the Pennsylvania-bred female who was so fast.
00:50:48And he bred her.
00:50:49I mean, if you've got a great turf runner, you've got a turf female,
00:50:52why not breed them to the best turf sires out there?
00:50:56Well, two years ago, he bred Caravelle to Frankel.
00:50:59And now he's bred Caravelle back to Dubai,
00:51:03arguably the two best turf sires in the world right now.
00:51:08So why not?
00:51:09He can do it.
00:51:10Hey, I bought her and you all didn't.
00:51:14That sums it all up, doesn't it?
00:51:16Well, the man can do it.
00:51:18Then that's his thing.
00:51:19I can do whatever I want.
00:51:21And so far, he marches to the beat of his own drum.
00:51:24So one more thing about Puka.
00:51:26He's obviously going to be successful.
00:51:28Yeah.
00:51:29And one more thing about Puka.
00:51:30I mean, so far, the Good Magic Puka cross has been golden.
00:51:35Because both Mage and Dornoch were by Good Magic, so they're full brothers.
00:51:40There's a cult on the ground right now by Good Magic out of Puka.
00:51:45And Puka, as we speak, is in full again to Good Magic.
00:51:49So maybe Stewart's just getting bored with the Good Magic Puka cross,
00:51:54and he's going to try to shake it up a little bit.
00:51:56Right.
00:51:57A little Torpedo Anna update.
00:51:59Kenny McPeak worked her on January 31st.
00:52:02This is her second workout of the year.
00:52:04She's at Gulfstream.
00:52:05Four furlongs and 47.03.
00:52:08At one point, he was talking about the Dubai World Cup.
00:52:11I caught up with him last week.
00:52:13He says that's no longer really in the cards for her.
00:52:16Instead, it looks like she's going to begin her four-year-old career
00:52:19in the Azeri at Oakland, which is a prep for the Apple Blossom.
00:52:23So he's being a little bit more conservative.
00:52:26But it's great to see this horse of the year back on track
00:52:29and getting ready to race.
00:52:30And not so long at Arkansas.
00:52:33Let's hope that she has a four-year-old year like she has a three-year-old year.
00:52:36And, you know, right now, Kenny's going to do something different.
00:52:39I don't know what it's going to be.
00:52:41But you know him.
00:52:42He's not going to go – he should train for Jon Stewart
00:52:45because both of them like to think outside the box.
00:52:47But it's great to see her back, Randy.
00:52:51She's a fun horse, and I love the way that McPeak has been so accessible
00:52:57to the public and the media and whatnot.
00:52:59I can't wait to see her back.
00:53:01Yeah, I mean, he's gone to Royal Ascot.
00:53:03He's the one, of course, who ran Torpedo Anna and the Travers against the boys,
00:53:08which was marginally unconventional.
00:53:11And she ran a sensational race in defeat to fierceness.
00:53:14So hopefully, fingers crossed, Torpedo Anna keeps training on schedule
00:53:19and comes back better than Mystic Dan has come back so far in his races,
00:53:25the three-year-old champion from last year – not the three-year-old champion,
00:53:28but the derby winner from last year.
00:53:30So, yeah, looking forward to seeing Torpedo Anna.
00:53:32Boy, what a runner she's been.
00:53:34Yeah, it's going to be fun.
00:53:35So a little bit of news out of New York.
00:53:37They're rebuilding, of course, Belmont Park.
00:53:39And they had said all along that the new Belmont would open in 2026.
00:53:46And presumably that meant it would be open in time for the Belmont Stakes 2026,
00:53:51with the 2024 Belmont already being run at Saratoga, 2025 scheduled to run at Saratoga.
00:53:57These things – there's always delays in these things.
00:54:00They never come off on time.
00:54:03And now Naira is talking about reopening Belmont Park
00:54:06after the traditional Saratoga meet in 2026.
00:54:11They would open in September 2026, which means it would not be done for the Belmont Stakes.
00:54:18But at the same time, they said, you know what, maybe we can run it at Belmont Park in 2026,
00:54:23go the tent route, like you mentioned earlier, Randy, they did for the Arlington Million
00:54:27when the Arlington burned down that time.
00:54:30But I don't see it.
00:54:32There's no reason to rush.
00:54:33It's going to be a great new facility.
00:54:35Running the Belmont at Saratoga was wildly popular in its first year.
00:54:41My prediction is that the 2027 Belmont will as well be run at Saratoga.
00:54:47Then we'll see in 2028.
00:54:49Can't wait to see what that new track looks like.
00:54:51And, you know, they can do no wrong, have it either at Saratoga or at a rebuilt Belmont.
00:54:57But I don't see with the construction going on and tents and everything like that
00:55:01and trying to stuff, you know, 50,000, 60,000 people into tents just doesn't seem to work to me.
00:55:07I can't wait either to see the new Belmont Park.
00:55:10It's like from one extreme to the other.
00:55:12We talk about Gulfstream Park and the uncertain future of Gulfstream Park and Santa Anita.
00:55:17And then on the other hand, you've got Churchill Downs.
00:55:20The CDI has done a fabulous job in rehabilitating that facility.
00:55:24And now it's sensational.
00:55:25And now here, Naira, with the help of the state of New York, is completely redoing Belmont Park into the image of a 21st century racetrack.
00:55:34So I can't wait to see it.
00:55:35I hope they do run in tents for the Belmont Stakes in 2026,
00:55:41if only because that means the Belmont Stakes is going to be back to a mile and a half instead of a mile and a quarter.
00:55:48That's probably uber traditional because obviously the Belmont was a fabulous success at Saratoga this past year.
00:55:57But to me, two years of the Belmont Stakes at Saratoga at a mile and a quarter is enough.
00:56:04And I would like to see a little tent action there to lead into the new facility.
00:56:10All right.
00:56:11Well, we will disagree on that one.
00:56:14And don't forget Pimlico as well.
00:56:16True.
00:56:17Exactly.
00:56:18I knew there was another one I was trying to think of.
00:56:19We're going to have a new Pimlico right about the same time the new Belmont looks to open.
00:56:25So some good news.
00:56:27Good to talk about good news and racetracks that are going forward rather than racetracks that look like they might be headed again in the wrong direction.
00:56:38And now for our weekly word from the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
00:56:43And it was a big Saturday for PA Breads at the Big A.
00:56:47First, Maximus Meridius made it back-to-back stakes wins when he took the Toboggan Stakes.
00:56:52Congratulations to that horse's breeder, Westerly Farm, and owners LC Racing.
00:56:57Cash is king.
00:56:58A little of the Fleet Alex action there.
00:57:00And trainer Butch Reed.
00:57:02Then it was the PA Breads Surfside Moon.
00:57:05Bill mentioned Surfside Moon, who at 33-1 was second to Captain Cook in the Withers.
00:57:10Ten points for Surfside Moon now on the road to the Kentucky Derby.
00:57:14How can you get involved in all this action with the PA Bread of your own and get a share of that $26 million paid out in 2024?
00:57:22Check it out.
00:57:23Go to pabread.com and take a look at the 2025 Stallion and Boarding Farm Directory.
00:57:28Or you can do it the old-fashioned way.
00:57:30Just give them a call.
00:57:31610-444-1050.
00:57:36PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:57:40It's excitement at every step.
00:57:44Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:57:47On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders' awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:57:56Plus, PA Breads shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:57:59Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:58:02Learn more at pabread.com.
00:58:06All the thrills.
00:58:10Fraction of the bills.
00:58:14Experience the power of the partnership.
00:58:20Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
00:58:27West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
00:58:31Visit westpointtb.com.
00:58:35TD and Riders Room, as always, also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds, which had a couple of very interesting debut winners last week.
00:58:43First of all, on Friday, or Thursday, rather, it was Seaport Lane breaking his maiden at First Asking at the fairgrounds.
00:58:51This is a four-year-old, first-time starter who beat Allowance Company.
00:58:56They couldn't get a maiden special weight to fill.
00:58:59Couldn't ship him to Oakland, so they went ahead and ran him against Allowance Horses, and he won with a 91 buyer speed figure.
00:59:04Also, Sorcerer Silver won at Gulfstream on Saturday, a first-time starter in a maiden race.
00:59:09Both impressively, both ridden by an Ortiz.
00:59:12It was Jose Ortiz who's killing it at the fairgrounds for Cherie Deveaux on Seaport Lane,
00:59:17and Irad Ortiz for trainer Dale Romans rode Sorcerer's Silver.
00:59:21That happened to be Irad's 4,000th career winner in North America,
00:59:27and a true point of pride for Terry Finley of West Point, as well as Tom Bellhouse.
00:59:31I got to know Irad when he first came to New York as an apprentice,
00:59:34hanging out at the coffee stand in the early mornings in Saratoga,
00:59:37and they've marveled and really enjoyed Irad's success.
00:59:41Well done, and many more wins to Irad Ortiz Jr. from West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:59:51That's a wrap on this week's show.
00:59:53I want to thank my partner, Randy Moss.
00:59:55Zoe Cabman, you've heard the day off.
00:59:57I want to thank our Gainesway Guest of the Week, which is Mr. Ian Wilkes.
01:00:01I want to thank the people who worked so hard behind the scenes,
01:00:04our producers and our directors, Katie Petruniak, Eclipse Award winner Sue Finley,
01:00:08Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:00:12Hope you enjoyed another TDN Writer's Room podcast.